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Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwere listening podcast. You can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything, okay? Officer Bill Andre Colorado game Warden slash

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Speaker 1: District Wildlife Manager slash District wildlife manager. For how many years, Brody?

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Speaker 1: Has he ever written you a citation for anything? Not yet?

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Speaker 1: Have you been? Have you been? Naturally just checked? I

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Speaker 1: know where to what areas to avoid, you know what

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Speaker 1: we're areas. But I've actually heard you better watch out

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Speaker 1: because he can pop up anywhere. That's what you heard

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Speaker 1: in your area. Yeah. Yeah, he's known as known to

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Speaker 1: find people that are doing things they shouldn't be doing.

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Speaker 1: So been You've been in the business, in the wildlife

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Speaker 1: game warden business for thirty eight thirty eight years? How

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Speaker 1: many more years you got in you? Not many? You're

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Speaker 1: like in the evening of your I'm in the twilight

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Speaker 1: of my career. Uh what year did you move out

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Speaker 1: to Colorado? Nineteen seventy six to go to school, Go

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Speaker 1: to school and then studied. I had a degree in

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Speaker 1: fisheries in zoology from Kay and then like went right

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Speaker 1: to work as a uh no I uh I took

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Speaker 1: the test for the district wildlife manager job. Didn't make

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Speaker 1: it the first year, so I went to Utah to

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Speaker 1: be an assistant manager at a private fish hatchery. And

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Speaker 1: then UH, the next year, I took the test again

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Speaker 1: and got in. What was stumping you? I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what the test is, but what was stumping you

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Speaker 1: on the test? I don't know what really stumped me.

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Speaker 1: It's a there was When I was taking it for

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Speaker 1: there was ten positions. You had about six hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy seven hundred people are apply for it and go

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Speaker 1: in and take a written test UM and then if

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Speaker 1: you pass the written test, you went to an oral

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Speaker 1: test and then you went through a physical psychological testing UM.

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Speaker 1: And out of the six or seven hundred people, I

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Speaker 1: didn't make the top ten the first of all. It's

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Speaker 1: a narrow pool, it wasn't it was. Then he dusted off,

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Speaker 1: came back the next year and got in, got in.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations belatedly, but elatedly, thank you. UM. So you're a

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Speaker 1: man of the law, right, and a man of the

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Speaker 1: law needs to be UM needs to approach things you

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Speaker 1: know objectively right. But are you still comfortable in dealing

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Speaker 1: with hypothetical because there's been There's a handful of questions

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Speaker 1: that have been raised to us over the years for

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Speaker 1: people right in and be like, hey, what if I

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Speaker 1: did this? Or what if a fella did this? And

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Speaker 1: it's very hard for us to get answers. But I

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Speaker 1: feel that, because you've probably been in all of these situations,

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Speaker 1: that I could ask you a hypothetical and you could

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Speaker 1: tell us what way you would lean on it. Can

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Speaker 1: we try one? Yeah? Well, I mean I can give

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Speaker 1: me an answer to a lot of them. Really, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me let me lay this one because this one

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Speaker 1: just came in. The answer would be is if you

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Speaker 1: use the word if, don't do it? Okay? What if

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Speaker 1: I have one more drink and drive? What if I

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Speaker 1: take that second shot? If if he's in there, you're

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Speaker 1: telling yourself, probably shouldn't do this, okay? But can I

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Speaker 1: lay someone? You bet? Because I just want to like, like, alright,

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Speaker 1: a guy writes in and says this, let's say you

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Speaker 1: this just we just got this email. He's and it's

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Speaker 1: not even hunting season, so I'm assuming this isn't like

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Speaker 1: a thing that he's now trying to figure out if

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Speaker 1: what he does right or wrong. But he's saying Let's

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Speaker 1: say you take a shot minutes before the end of

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Speaker 1: legal shooting light. So so bouch right, you go over

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Speaker 1: there and you gotta take a step and shot to

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Speaker 1: finish it off. But now it's past legal shooting light,

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Speaker 1: he shoots again. How would you view that? Well, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna I mean, the circumstances are gonna be. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: have to show me two bullet wounds, Okay, because if

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Speaker 1: he shoots twice and there's only one, why am I

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Speaker 1: going to believe that the second shot was it was?

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Speaker 1: I just had to finish it off. So you do

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Speaker 1: a little detective work. Sure, you gotta do a little

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Speaker 1: detective work on it. Have you been in the situation before?

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Speaker 1: Not on that exact one. I mean, we've had it

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Speaker 1: on private land. The animal jumped the fence after I

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Speaker 1: shot it. It was laying on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the fence. I finished it off. May not have crossed

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Speaker 1: the fence, but I shot across the fence to finish

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Speaker 1: it off. If there isn't two bullet holes in it,

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Speaker 1: he has a problem. Got If there's two bullet holes,

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Speaker 1: and at least it's plausible it could have happened, and

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Speaker 1: then it just depends on on how up for you

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Speaker 1: feel they are, Um, are they sincere and what they're

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Speaker 1: saying and what the circumstances show you when you're out there.

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Speaker 1: So I mean a lot of it's give and take. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, if the person is extremely nervous, or you've

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Speaker 1: had dealings with him before, or they're known to be

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Speaker 1: always the one that was just a minute after shooting light,

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Speaker 1: then you're like, you're not learning your learning your lesson.

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Speaker 1: Maybe quit shooting twenty minutes before the end of shooting

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Speaker 1: light instead of waiting till the last minute. Uh. I

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Speaker 1: want to get background and ask you about if you

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Speaker 1: have people in your area, Like I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you what your area is, if you have people in

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Speaker 1: your area that you find that you are routinely dealing with.

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Speaker 1: But I want to hit you with two more hypothetical Okay,

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Speaker 1: one time a guy and I was never going to

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Speaker 1: get this guy an answer on this, and he was

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Speaker 1: asked asking the question about Alaska. But maybe there's something

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Speaker 1: in your zone. Really be able to answer this guy's

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Speaker 1: question for him or provide some insight where he was

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Speaker 1: saying that one time he's on he's in a piece

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Speaker 1: of public ground that allows rifle hunting, okay, But he's

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Speaker 1: on the border with a piece of ground that's managed

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Speaker 1: in such a way that the seasons are the same,

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Speaker 1: but there's no rifle hunting. You cannot discharge a firearm there.

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Speaker 1: You can only hunt with archery equipment. So same season structure,

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Speaker 1: same bag limit structure, but just the Land Management Agency

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Speaker 1: has said no discharge of firearms on this chunk land.

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Speaker 1: But he was sitting in the firearm discharged thing looking

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Speaker 1: across the border, looking across this boundary at a black

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Speaker 1: bear and didn't shoot. And later all of his hunting

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Speaker 1: buddies were like, well, you definitely could have because you

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Speaker 1: weren't discharging your firearm in the no firearm discharge area.

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Speaker 1: How would you look at the situation like that? If

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Speaker 1: the bullet hit the animal in the no discharge area,

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Speaker 1: you killed it with a firearm. I mean, if it's not,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I like it. The reason you can't you

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Speaker 1: can't discharge a firearm because you can't kill something with

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Speaker 1: a firearm there. So if the bullet hits it and

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Speaker 1: kills it, you killed it with a firearm. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter where you're stand doesn't matter where you're standing exactly.

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Speaker 1: I like, I mean, I like to thinking. It's good thinking.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I agree with it, but I

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Speaker 1: like to thinking, well, if you're standing on I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I agree with it in like, um,

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Speaker 1: just in terms of having like a debate. I feel

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Speaker 1: like you could run circles around the idea if if

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Speaker 1: the animal died from a bullet, the only way for

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Speaker 1: a bullet to kill it is you discharged the firearm. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and sent that thing or sent that thing across that line. Good,

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Speaker 1: all right? Last one, last hype, and this might not

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Speaker 1: even be a hype, that are you allowed a corner

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Speaker 1: hop in Colorado? I believe the answer is no. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure on that, but I believe it's no. That's

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Speaker 1: how I've always operated in Colorado. Have you ever had

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Speaker 1: to um write a citation to someone who argued, no,

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Speaker 1: this idea. No, I don't totally understand the reason why

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Speaker 1: it's not legal. I mean, it was a big right

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Speaker 1: up in one of the magazines, this winner on it,

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Speaker 1: and and I can't remember he was in Wyoming that

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Speaker 1: they were doing it, but we talked about it incessantly.

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Speaker 1: And no, it's like a it's like a legal black hole. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand how if you don't touch that private land,

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Speaker 1: why it's not legal for you to corner hop but

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Speaker 1: not an expert on it, haven't had any dealings with it.

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Speaker 1: You just enforced a lie. You don't make them right.

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Speaker 1: I hit you with one more. Someone is um public

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Speaker 1: land and they're shooting at the animal. This is when

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Speaker 1: we talked about incessantly for whatever reason. Uh, this one's

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Speaker 1: on public land and they're shooting at an animal that's

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Speaker 1: on public land with their bullet crosses private land. Would

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Speaker 1: you ding them for having trespassed, for having their bullet

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Speaker 1: trespassed across someone's land. Um? Personally, I probably would not,

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Speaker 1: but I did see UM. I think it was an

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Speaker 1: attorney's general opinion, but it might have just been from

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Speaker 1: a district attorney, one of the local district attorneys that

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Speaker 1: if you're shooting over their land, you're trespassing. Um. But

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Speaker 1: it would take a lot for me to to write

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Speaker 1: an actual citation. I might write him a warning. So

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Speaker 1: it also depends on did he cross a corner he

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Speaker 1: wasn't aware of, or was he aware that his neighbors

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Speaker 1: got an eight foot fence and he was sitting in

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Speaker 1: a tree and purposely shot over the eight foot fence

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Speaker 1: across the guy's property to get something on the other side.

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Speaker 1: So there's always circumstances you have to look at. You

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Speaker 1: know that that It's like you knew better, You knew

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Speaker 1: there was a reason you weren't supposed to do it,

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Speaker 1: and you went to all this effort to do it,

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Speaker 1: so you already knew the answer before you pull the trick.

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Speaker 1: I got you. I got you. That's the thing, like

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Speaker 1: from talking in the past and talking to you you now.

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Speaker 1: The thing that, um that's come out when I've asked

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Speaker 1: these questions is how much you're sort of when you're

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Speaker 1: dealing with someone, how much you uh seem to sort

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Speaker 1: of pay attention to in fact or in like like

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Speaker 1: sort of the entire package of what's going on, like

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Speaker 1: an individual's intent sort of how are they, how up

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Speaker 1: front are they being? To what point did they self report?

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Speaker 1: To what point you gotta like work at them to

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Speaker 1: try to find out the full story. If I have

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Speaker 1: to work at it to get the full story, lie

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Speaker 1: to me, you don't have much success. I'm probably gonna

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Speaker 1: write you the ticket. If you're upfront and truthful then

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Speaker 1: I'll treat you the same way I mean to me.

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Speaker 1: It's treat them like you want to be treated. We're

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Speaker 1: all going to make mistakes in our life. Some will

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Speaker 1: be an honest mistake, some will be like what if,

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Speaker 1: and other ones will be I know I shouldn't do this,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna do it anyways. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to try to get to those little details of

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Speaker 1: just how did this happen and why did it happen? All? Right? Now,

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Speaker 1: well I don't know this, this might not be bad

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Speaker 1: and that moving forward, But now can you not? Weve

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Speaker 1: got those dates, Greff. Can you can also explain me

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Speaker 1: like the breadth of your work, like like what is

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Speaker 1: sort of your professional mandate in terms of what you're

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Speaker 1: responsible for and where you're responsible for it? Well, we

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Speaker 1: all we all have our own districts, UM, but are

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Speaker 1: like today, as we talked about, I'm the on call

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Speaker 1: officer for the Area eight, which goes from Aspen to Veil.

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Speaker 1: So if there's any wildlife calls, UM, I get the

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Speaker 1: call first. Does that overlap with the hunting units? Yes,

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Speaker 1: so it's the it's the units or no, it's UM

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Speaker 1: like we have that they don't. Unfortunately, the units don't

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Speaker 1: really follow a normal numbering system, so we have everything

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Speaker 1: from the lowest unit I believe is thirty five and

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Speaker 1: we go up to four seventy one. So the way

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Speaker 1: they were designed doesn't really fit in with when you

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Speaker 1: look at the numbering system scattered all around. But I

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Speaker 1: mean my main responsibilities within my district, which is the

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Speaker 1: Upper Eagle Valley UM, but on it when you're on call,

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Speaker 1: then you're responsible from here all the way to Aspen

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Speaker 1: so and in hunting season, if a call comes in

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Speaker 1: and nobody else is there, you're expected to be able

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Speaker 1: to go handle it, whether you're the on call office

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Speaker 1: or not. So with only eight guys working in the

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Speaker 1: field over that big in area, there's lots of times

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Speaker 1: you have to go out side your normal area and

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Speaker 1: work on it. But we also have the ability to

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Speaker 1: go anywhere in the state. I mean, we're UH Class

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Speaker 1: one peace officer for the state of Colorado, so we

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Speaker 1: can enforce any of the laws in Colorado, but we

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Speaker 1: stay pretty much to the game and fish laws. So

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Speaker 1: you could pull over someone for speeding, Oh yeah, without

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Speaker 1: a doubt. Do you do that much? No, it's not

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Speaker 1: not my expertise. I mean, I don't have a radar gun.

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Speaker 1: Our direction is pretty much that if somebody is driving

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Speaker 1: in such a way that they're a clear hazard and

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Speaker 1: could cause severe bodily injury, then pull them over and

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Speaker 1: get a state patrol or a sheriff's deputy or a

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Speaker 1: town police to come out and handle it. So I

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Speaker 1: want to talk more about law enforcement, But what are

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Speaker 1: your other So besides law enforcement, law enforcementy other responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Law enforcements used to be about a third of the time. Um.

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Speaker 1: Now it depends how you classify law enforcement. When you

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Speaker 1: look at the bear calls and the line calls we

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Speaker 1: deal with, to a certain degree, those are law enforcement

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Speaker 1: in that you may have to discharge a weapon to

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Speaker 1: put the animal down, maybe right in the middle of town.

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Speaker 1: So that's definitely a law enforcement situation in that part.

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Speaker 1: But we always go through the discussion, Um, is it

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Speaker 1: law enforcement you're responding to for human safety or is

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Speaker 1: it a biological concern you're responding to that the bear

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Speaker 1: or the moose is in a place it shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: and it's a danger to people. How much time do

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Speaker 1: you spend dealing with that now relative to in the past,

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Speaker 1: with with wildlife conflict like like, particularly with bears and

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Speaker 1: melt alive uh in the summer. Over fifty percent of

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Speaker 1: the times bears on on the bad years, I mean

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Speaker 1: on a good year, it might only be ten percent

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Speaker 1: of what ten percent of your whole time in the summer.

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Speaker 1: You spend fifty percent of your time in the summer

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Speaker 1: dealing with bears. Yes, but last year doing what well?

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Speaker 1: Last year, just in this area from Veiled Aspen, we

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Speaker 1: handled over eleven hundred calls and some of those are

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Speaker 1: simply calling somebody back and saying, well, yeah, I put

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Speaker 1: your trash up, put your bird feeder up. Other ones

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Speaker 1: you might spend two or three days on. You drag

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Speaker 1: a trap over to Aspen or to Veil, you set

263
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Speaker 1: the trap, you have to go back the next day

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Speaker 1: and rebait the trap. Then if you catch the bear,

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Speaker 1: the decisions made whether the bears put down or moved,

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Speaker 1: and then to move it you have to go about

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Speaker 1: a hundred airline miles. So once you catch a bear,

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Speaker 1: if you have to move it, that's an all day

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Speaker 1: deal for at least one offs or sometimes two. Now

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Speaker 1: do you expect to do a lot more of that

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Speaker 1: this summer? Since it's a drought year. Well, it certainly

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Speaker 1: could be. I mean, the nice thing about so far

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Speaker 1: this year is knock on wood. We we got through

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Speaker 1: all the blossoms without a frieze or a frost. Now

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Speaker 1: we could still get one as the fruit setting and

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Speaker 1: lose them all, or it could get so dry that

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Speaker 1: the fruit just doesn't really produce, and the acorns don't produce.

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Speaker 1: So acorns and service berries and stuff like that, and

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Speaker 1: choke cherries, those those are the key. So you're talking,

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Speaker 1: you're talking wild fruit, wild fruit. Yeah, we mean the

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Speaker 1: fruit in town and people's crab apple tree ease because

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Speaker 1: they're watering it in a drought year, that's where the

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Speaker 1: fruit is going to be and and the bears are

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Speaker 1: going to go in there to get it. So you

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Speaker 1: so you mean you could have a like a wild

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Speaker 1: choke cherry failure, a wild blueberry failure, the wild acorn failure,

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Speaker 1: and you can then anticipate we're gonna have trouble with

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Speaker 1: bears direct correlation. So this year might not be that bad,

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Speaker 1: might not be that bad. I mean, we've had we

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Speaker 1: haven't had anywhere near as many problems this year as

291
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Speaker 1: we've had in years passed in our area in the southwest,

292
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Speaker 1: which is in a much greater droughts having some more

293
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Speaker 1: problems than we're having right now. What's the last time

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Speaker 1: someone in Colorado was killed by a black bear? I

295
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Speaker 1: haven't heard about that in a long time. Well, the

296
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Speaker 1: last one was about three years ago. Uh. The lady

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Speaker 1: down by tell your ride that was feeding bears through

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Speaker 1: a chain length fence on her porch. The bears killed her.

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Speaker 1: I mean through a chain link fence. She had put

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Speaker 1: a chain length fence around the deck of her porch

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Speaker 1: so that she could hand feed the bears and the

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Speaker 1: bears couldn't get to her. Unfortunately, the bears could get

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Speaker 1: to her. Oh. I don't know how. I wasn't there,

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Speaker 1: but the bears did kill her. Gotcha. Uh, when you

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Speaker 1: said you have to move a bear a hundred miles,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean in order to try to transplant

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Speaker 1: the bear, you try to get them out of their

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Speaker 1: home range. Oh, so that doesn't mean it just happens

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Speaker 1: to be a hundred miles to a good place to

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Speaker 1: put it. But there's a thinking that move a bear

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Speaker 1: one and you'll and he's likely to not show back

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Speaker 1: up where you left him, right me? But you also like,

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Speaker 1: we don't take many bears in our area, um, even

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Speaker 1: though we might were a hundred miles from Denver Um.

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Speaker 1: Part of the reason is we have enough bear problems

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Speaker 1: going on. But you have to look at another domestic sheep.

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Speaker 1: There is there a campground there. If this is a

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Speaker 1: bear that's been getting food from people, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to dump in the middle of a campground. So we

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Speaker 1: kind of try to pick the places that he's not

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Speaker 1: gonna immediately cause another problem. Doesn't mean he won't pick

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Speaker 1: up and move twenty miles and cause the problem the

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Speaker 1: next day, but we try not to put him in

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Speaker 1: a spot that's gonna cause him a real problem. What

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00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,880
Speaker 1: factors play in when you look and and you're trying

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Speaker 1: to decide whether an animal needs be youuthanized or relocated.

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Speaker 1: It's generally based on the animals um disposition where they

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Speaker 1: aggressive to people. UM. Certainly, if they break into a house,

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Speaker 1: if a windows open a crack and they rip that

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Speaker 1: window open and come in the house, we euthanize them

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Speaker 1: because of thinking then, is that that he has a

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Speaker 1: proclivity to go into houses? Right, could be has for

333
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Speaker 1: the next person, right with the next person or if

334
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 1: you move them. Somebody in a tent has a piece

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Speaker 1: of nylon between them and the bear versus a wall

336
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Speaker 1: and a window. Just so people understand, like, it's it's

337
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Speaker 1: well known that once a bear does that, once they're

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Speaker 1: going to keep doing it. Right, they learned, they learned it,

339
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 1: they especially if they get rewarded. It's you know, you

340
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Speaker 1: could make an argument that, well, yeah, he pulled the window,

341
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Speaker 1: and but he never got in the house and got

342
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Speaker 1: any food. Somebody scared him off before. But once they

343
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Speaker 1: get in the house and start eating out of the

344
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 1: refrigerator or the cupboards, then it's like that that bear

345
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: knows how to get food and he's probably gonna do

346
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 1: it again. Have you ever seen video of a bear

347
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 1: work in the outside of a house. I've seen it

348
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Speaker 1: in person. People think like I think some people visualize

349
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Speaker 1: that that the bear comes up and understands doors and

350
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: windows initially, but they just work the whole thing, pulling, prying,

351
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: biting anything they can get there, claw under right, and

352
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 1: they just like explore that whole exterior and eventually find

353
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Speaker 1: something that kind of gives you know, there are some

354
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Speaker 1: bears that clearly know a door in a window from

355
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Speaker 1: from having been through that process. Men, you watch him.

356
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Speaker 1: They'll walk right up to a deck, right up to

357
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Speaker 1: the sliding glass door. There's there's pictures on security cameras

358
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Speaker 1: of bears opening a car door. Asked as you and

359
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: I can, they walk up, They lift the latch and

360
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,880
Speaker 1: they're in the car. That quick. They figured it out.

361
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: They know exactly how to open that door. They know

362
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Speaker 1: where to go. What they don't know how to do

363
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 1: is open the door from the inside. When the door

364
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: closes on them, that's when you have the problem. Then

365
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: they're in the house. Have you dealt with that? Oh? Yeah,

366
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Speaker 1: got a bear in a home. What do you even

367
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Speaker 1: do then, Well, the first thing you do is you

368
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Speaker 1: try to convince the people there, if they can safely

369
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Speaker 1: do it, is to open every door on the house,

370
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Speaker 1: give the bear options to get out. So also, you've

371
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Speaker 1: had calls some people who are in a house with

372
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Speaker 1: a bear in the house, with a bear in the house,

373
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Speaker 1: and they're calling from within the house. What are they

374
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Speaker 1: saying after they stopped screaming, Yeah, um, they're they're just

375
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Speaker 1: you know, bears in the house. I'm in the bedroom,

376
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Speaker 1: I need to get out, help me. And lots of

377
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: times just because where we're located, we call the local

378
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: p D or the s O and say, hey, well,

379
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Speaker 1: I mean the sheriffs department, the local police department or

380
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: the shriffs department, just because they generally can be there quicker.

381
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: And the big thing is open the doors to the house,

382
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 1: give that bear away out. Um. If the people can

383
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: go out a windows safely or there's another exit, then

384
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: help them get out that window and we'll be there

385
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: as quick as we can with it. And then if

386
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: you've when when you've arrived at a house, where does

387
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: a bear in a house? Yes? Do you do? You

388
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: just like going there guns blazing? Are you going there

389
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: trying to figure out ways to get doors open and

390
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 1: let the thing? The first thing you do is try

391
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 1: to get the doors open. You don't want to have

392
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: to destroy the bear inside somebody's home. And then you'll

393
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 1: just find him, like if he takes off, you'll just

394
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: go find that bear, right. I mean, we generally carry

395
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: a trank gun with us. UM. A lot of the

396
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: officers now are carrying tasers. UM. A taser works on

397
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: a bear or moose just like it does a human.

398
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: Oh do you guys have tasted the bears and moose.

399
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, what's the due to it? The same

400
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 1: thing he does to a person. Because I don't know

401
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: what a does new person, You ought to have voluntineer

402
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: taste them. Yeah, I mean it doesn't like incapacitate. It does. Yeah,

403
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 1: as long as long as you keep pulling the trigger

404
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: and put the juice to them. They're on the ground,

405
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: they can't move. Really, have you hit a bear of

406
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: the taser? I have not. I'm not trained in a taser, so,

407
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: but tasing and well, like you see, you hear about

408
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: moose is stuck in swing sets. No, oh you haven't.

409
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: I've seen my kids get started. You know. There's there's

410
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: quite a few videos of moose and swing sets. And

411
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: it used to be you either try to get the

412
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: moose walk into a yard and hooks his antler and swing,

413
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: or he decides to fight with it. No, I didn't

414
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: know this is the thing. Oh yeah, yeah, just well,

415
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: I'll just like anything else, you know, moose or bull

416
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: elk gets upset, they walk into the swing, the swing

417
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: come back and hits them. They throw their head at

418
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: it because something just hit them, and they end up

419
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: with the rope or the chain wrapped around their antlers,

420
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: so that the old way was you either try to

421
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: cut it loose without in anything to it without getting stomped,

422
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: or you dart it and then once it's understodation you

423
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: do you remove it. The new way is that you

424
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: go in with tasers and you taste the thing, and

425
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: as long as you don't touch the wires going from

426
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: the taser gun to the implants, you can handle the

427
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: moose or cut the chain of the rope loose from them,

428
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: and then once you stop tasting at the thing jumps

429
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: up and runs away, and it's safer for the animal

430
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: than tranquilize of it. It's safer because you don't have

431
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: to well, first off, you don't have to wait. Now

432
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: there would you walk up and dart it, It's going

433
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: to take four or five minutes for that to take effects,

434
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: so the animal can hurt itself, and then you have

435
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: to depending on the tranquilizer you use, you either have

436
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: a reversal or you have to wait a couple hours

437
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: for the animal to wake up. So you know, it's

438
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: much easier to deal with trying to move a moose

439
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: out of somebody's yard or sit there with it for

440
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: four or five hours and then realize when you turn

441
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: it loose, it may run out in the street and

442
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: get hit. It's a whole lot easier if you don't

443
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: they I mean, it's not like they wake up and

444
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: they have a dent of the senses about them. I

445
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: mean they wake up and coming out of being sated. Yeah,

446
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: I mean they wake up from the reversal fairly quickly

447
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: and they can move, but it doesn't always mean they're

448
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: a d percent there. And you'll see him jump up

449
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: and run a little ways, and then they kind of

450
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: stop and shake their head, so you don't know if

451
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: they're really a UM mobile and aware of what's going on.

452
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: But when he comes out of being tazed, he's back

453
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: to himself. Back to himself yeah, yeah, and pissed or

454
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: not pissed from what I've seen in the videos. It

455
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: depends on the animal. UM But there's been a lot

456
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: of times with moose and bear that I mean the bear,

457
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: that they're generally not tasting the bear to immobilize it,

458
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: to do anything. They're trying to taze the bear to

459
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: give it a negative experience that hey, you show up here,

460
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: just like hitting it with rubber buckshot every time you

461
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: come up on a deck, somebody does something nasty to you.

462
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: Pretty soon you're gonna start saying, I don't like to

463
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: go to those places. It hurts. So it's it's not

464
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: so much with the bears that were in it to

465
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: immobilize them, to work on them. We're doing it more

466
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: to try to give them that negative experience. What's the

467
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: typical mountain lion problem, Like, what's the typical sort of

468
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: pattern of of a mountain lion, you know, kind of

469
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: crossing that that sort of division into into human territory. Right,

470
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty same as the bears. Um. Although I

471
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: haven't been to any mountain lions in a home, I've

472
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: been to mountain lions to sleep on people's front doors,

473
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: at their sliding glass doors. For what reason they just

474
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: decided to curl up there and go to sleep. I mean,

475
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: I don't know the reason. Homes with pets are not

476
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: even necessarily not even necessarily with pets, no livestock generally,

477
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: or maybe horses and solar radiation and playing, there's probably

478
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: a nice place to take an laying up on a rock,

479
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: and it is a pretty lots of times they are.

480
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: They're on kind of the least side, they're out of

481
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: the wind and the snow, and they are right up

482
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: against the base of the house. I mean we had

483
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: one in Ego that crawled underneath the house trailer and

484
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: we crawled underneath the house trailer with it to try

485
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: to get it out, and went in the first time

486
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: just to see where it was. Didn't have a dart

487
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: gun and and could not get the thing to move

488
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: from the corner it was in. When in the second

489
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: time with two of us in a dart gun, and

490
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: once we got close, it ran around us and ran out,

491
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: and then we had to chase it down after that

492
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: to do what we put it down. Um, it had

493
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: been in town three or four times, up by the

494
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: school and when we got close enough to sit, I

495
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: mean we were eight feet away from this thing under

496
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: the house trailer. Uh, it was emaciated. I mean it

497
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: stayed away in sixty or seventy pounds. It was weighing

498
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: about pods. Yeah, we're seeing quite a bit of that

499
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: with with yearlings that they just don't seem to learn

500
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: how to hunt or distribute that too. I don't know

501
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,239
Speaker 1: if it's just they got kicked out too early by

502
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: the mom um and they just don't know how to

503
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: hunt or or if they're injured somewhere inside. I mean

504
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: sometimes when we do the knee cropsies, we don't run

505
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: everything on them to be able to determine what their

506
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: cause is for being in such bad shape. Usually just assume,

507
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: just like people, you've got good hunters, you've got bad hunters.

508
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: But you're saying you feel like you see more of

509
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: it now. Well, um, the best quote was from the

510
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: neighboring officer here in Eagle. He's been on thirty five years.

511
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: I've been on thirty eight and in January of two

512
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, we dealt with more lion calls in one

513
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: month than we dealt with the thirty plus years we've

514
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: each had before. You never used to get a call

515
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: about a lion in town, but like there has been.

516
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: I mean, there has been many things contributing to this.

517
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: But do you have some like theories about it? Oh? Yeah,

518
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: like lay them out? Oh you want to know what

519
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: my theories are? Yeah, and and and and ivious, Like

520
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: I understand that you're you're just you know, no one

521
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 1: right as someone knew the absolute answer, Well, it would

522
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: be impossible to know the absolute answer. But there has

523
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: been something like some good ideas about what is going

524
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: on right Well, definitely the mountain lion populations increased, and

525
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: so has the human population. So you and you had

526
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: you have more of e than one, you have a

527
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: bigger chance for interaction. But if you look across up

528
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: almost all the Western states, all of them are showing

529
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: this an increase in conflicts between bears and lions and people. UM.

530
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean we did last year two thousand seventeen again

531
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: from Veil to Aspen. I think we responded to write

532
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: out a hundred mountain lion calls. Before two thousand fourteen,

533
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: we didn't even bother keep track because there was so few. UM.

534
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: We uh. We've increased our harvest quota on lions in

535
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: most of the places, and we're usually filling those and

536
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: even after filling them in two thousand sixteen, after filling

537
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: the quota, UM, we had a couple areas in the

538
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: Upper Eagle Valley where we were seeing people were seeing

539
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: three and four lions at a time, working together, coming

540
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: right up to their homes, walking around the homes, coming

541
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: up on the decks. Um, probably looking for pets, pet food, UM,

542
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 1: deer elk that we're in their net yards. Do you

543
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: feel that increasing the quota does it allow like, does

544
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: it allow you guys to even target the lions that

545
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: are coming into town or is it two almost separate populations.

546
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know that it's two separate populations.

547
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: But one of the problems we have is sometimes where

548
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: they're coming into town, it's a really bad place to

549
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 1: try to run them with hounds, mainly because the roads, well,

550
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: the hounds get hit on the roads, or the lion

551
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: decides to run back into the neighborhood. And now you

552
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: get four hounds underneath somebody's crab apple tree barking at

553
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: a lion in their tree, and they want to know

554
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: what this guy with the guns doing on their property. Yeah, understandable.

555
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: So so tough, tough in some of these places to

556
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: hunt it tough. Right along Ice seventy. A lot of

557
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: the problems we have are right on the edges of

558
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: Ice seventy. Course, that's where the subdivisions are here. The

559
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: other thing that it appears to be happening is the lions,

560
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: just like the bears, have learned that a subdivision and

561
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: a golf course is a pretty good place to live. Um,

562
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, for the airs, you got all the fruit

563
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: trees that people plant for the lions. You've got pets,

564
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: you've got pet foods, you've got lots of rabbits um,

565
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: you got deer and elk spending an entire year living

566
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: within these subdivisions. And we're talking big subdivisions, not a

567
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: not a twenty acre subdivision, but something like Cordiera that's

568
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: maybe a thousand acres homestead, that's eight hundred some acres.

569
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: I mean, there's enough room for these animals to find

570
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: a place to live and stay out of site most

571
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: of the time. And then the other reason I think

572
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: we get more calls is everybody has security cameras or

573
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: game cameras. Everybody's got a game camera in their backyard,

574
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: and the lion may have always used to walk through it,

575
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: but now they've got a picture of it. Oh and

576
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: you mean you see it on TV all the time

577
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: that you know in Denver, they just had a picture

578
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: of a month or so ago of female and three

579
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: kittens jumping over a guy split rail. Flint's walking through

580
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: the yards, sniffing around the bushes and then going into

581
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: the neighbors. And that may have been going on for years,

582
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: but nobody had that video camera out there, and they

583
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: get alarmed when they see it. Some to some they're

584
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: just like, well, that's really cool. They get alarmed on

585
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: their cat or their dog disappears, and they get pretty upset.

586
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: You know. I want to share with you a couple

587
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: of perspectives that, uh, coming from folks in Washington, where

588
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: I currently live, and actually not far from where I live,

589
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: they just had the first mountain lion, uh human fatality

590
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: from a mountain lion in ninety four years. Okay, so

591
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: it's a couple mountain bikers were out riding not far

592
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: from town and uh look back and there's a lion

593
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: chasing them. They jumped off their bikes, use their bikes

594
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: to sort of scare off the lion, rode down the

595
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: trail a little bit away to get away from the area, stopped.

596
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: We're kind of like, oh my god, I can't leave.

597
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: It just happened, and then the lion jumped from above

598
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: attacked one of the bikers. That biker got the lion off,

599
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: got on his bike and fled, and then the line

600
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: killed the other biker and drugged the biker up and

601
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: cashed it under some brush. They had a houndsman come out.

602
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: The houndsman started the track at the line there at

603
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: the at the kill and tracked down and killed the lion. Um.

604
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: One thing that came out of that it was interesting

605
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: was the way that everyone who has sort of an

606
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: agenda around mountain lions use that example to further their perspective,

607
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 1: ranging from some people saying there must have been something

608
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: wrong with the lion because there's no other way to

609
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: account for how this would happen. Other people saying, no,

610
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: there was nothing wrong with the lion. It's just a

611
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: thing that can happen. Uh. A friend of mine who

612
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: I have a couple of friends who are houndsman who

613
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: do a lot of work for the States, and one

614
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: of these guys had an interesting perspective on it, where

615
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: he's just taking his own career. So he'd spent decades

616
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: doing uh like wildlife conflict work around mountain lions as

617
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: a houndsman, and he was saying when he was young,

618
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: there was zero tolerance for any kind of mix up

619
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: like any lion. That when anywhere near people are attempted

620
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: to kill the sheep or did anything like the lion

621
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: was just dead, he would get a call. He would

622
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: be told kill the lion. Now he'll get calls where

623
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: they're like, don't want to kill the lion. Can you

624
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: run it and scare it away? Maybe a couple of times,

625
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: or it's gonna be a lot of pressure on us

626
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: just due to the neighborhoods. Gonna a lot of pressure

627
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: on us if we have to euthanize the lion. So

628
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: he feels that as acceptance for these soft encounters has increased,

629
00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: you're like it or not, you're gonna invite additional art encounters.

630
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: The thing about his perspective is this is the first

631
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: time it's happened in ninety four years. So if another

632
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: hundred years goes by and then no one else gets

633
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: killed by a mountainline, you'll be like that adds a

634
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: lot of validity to the fact it was like a fluke, Right,

635
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: If all of a sudden, now it like becomes a thing,

636
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: you know, every now and then a person gets killed,

637
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: I think it might lend. It might give some creedence

638
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: to what his perspective is. It's just like, if we're

639
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: going to be more tolerant of large predators and it

640
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: amongst us, we're gonna have to learn to be more

641
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: tolent with the fact you're gonna inevitably have these dangerous encounters.

642
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: Does that speak to you it all, like, I mean,

643
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: does that seem like something that makes sense based on

644
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: your I mean different state, right, but yeah, a different state. Um.

645
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know enough about Washington's lying population

646
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: to talk intelligently about their side of it, but you know,

647
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: I kind of subscribe to that same thing that you

648
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: know it used to be. We would tell people, you know,

649
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: just clean up your trash, take your bird feeders down,

650
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: the bears will go away, and to a certain point

651
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: they do. Um. But with what we found, with the

652
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: number of droughts we're getting now and the changes in

653
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: what's going on with vegetations, the lack of fire, I mean,

654
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: some of the best places for them to find food

655
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: is in the town, whether it's garbage or everybody plants

656
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: raspberries in their backyard or service berry choke, cherries, crab

657
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: apple trees. So we're kind of inviting them to come

658
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: into where we are, and at the same time, we're

659
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: moving out into their habitat more and more. So definitely

660
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: going to increase the number of encounters. And some people

661
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: are very tolerant of it. Some people the first time

662
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: they show up that they don't care if you kill

663
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: that bear or what you do. But just get that

664
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: bear out, go put them back in the woods. It

665
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that, Hey, you live up against a wilderness area.

666
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 1: You're surrounded on two sides by forest service, and one

667
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: of those sides is the wilderness boundary. Where in the

668
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: state do you want us to put them? But it

669
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: isn't for them to be. And you get the same

670
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: thing with people out on a trail that Hey, I

671
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: was walking on this trail and the wilderness and this

672
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: bear showed up and stared at me. You gotta do something. No,

673
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: that's where I want the bear to be. You need

674
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: to understand that the bears are there and you need

675
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: to take the appropriate actions to keep yourself safe. But

676
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: but conflicts aside. You feel that there are more like like,

677
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: numerically right, there are more lions. You feel there are

678
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: more lions now than the world a decade ago. Oh,

679
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: without a doubt, and bears right and bears? Do you

680
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: think that there's more bears because they don't get hunted

681
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: in the spring anymore? I don't because we actually harvest

682
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: more bears just our fall season now than we did

683
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: with a spring in a fall season. It's just a

684
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: general increasing population. Yeah. The big difference in bears when

685
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: Tom Beck was doing his study down in the Black

686
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 1: Canyon of the Gunnison, when we would have a bad

687
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 1: drought year like this or a failure of acorn sore berries,

688
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: the thinking was, and I think it was true at

689
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: that point, was the cubs that were born that year

690
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: weren't going to get enough food to make it through hibernation.

691
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: They would end up dying. The sows that were impregnated

692
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: because bears do a delayed implantation, they wouldn't have enough fat,

693
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: they wouldn't implant those embryos. So you lost this year's crop,

694
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: cub crop, and you lost next year. See you losing

695
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: To explain delayed implantation real quick, that the sow's impregnated

696
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: in the spring, but they don't implant the embryos until fall.

697
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: So in the spring the egg so when they rought

698
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: in June and June okay, so the egg is fertilized

699
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: and begins to form, but it's not implanted yet and

700
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: the implant Martin's there's a lot of different animals that

701
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: have delayed implantation. Yeah here I heard the uh yeah,

702
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: you're like river rotters and handful members of the Weel family.

703
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: And so the thinking like, so then she needs to

704
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: be in a certain state. So the bear needs to

705
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: be a certain state of physical fitness for her to

706
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: allow the implantation to occur. Correct, So continue on now. So,

707
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: so you lose two years of age, two classes of

708
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: age class. You lose the cubs from two thousand seventeen,

709
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: and you don't get any cubs in two thousand eighteen.

710
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: So that's a huge hit to your population. I mean,

711
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: imagine if you're going to to grade school and you

712
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: lose the third and fourth grade class, you know, for

713
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: the when they get ready to hit high school, that

714
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: grade you winning class goom and be pretty darned small.

715
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: When it comes time for them to start reproducing, there's

716
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 1: a whole lot less of them out there to reproduce.

717
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: Hard to build a population on that. And when you

718
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: think how long live bears are, I mean that that's

719
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: a long period that you're missing those two And if

720
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 1: you get two that are close together, which I would

721
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: think you could say two thousand twelve and two thousand

722
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: and eighteen, are fairly close together. When you're talking about

723
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: an animal might live twenty years, you know there's there's

724
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 1: four age classes you lose. What we've seen different now

725
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: is that the bears are coming into town. They're feeding

726
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: on the trash, they're feeding on the apple trees and towns. Uh,

727
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: they're going into the corn fields and the orchards and

728
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: grand junction, which they never used to do in the numbers.

729
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: They're doing it now. So they're picking up all these

730
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: other food sources. The other food source that there seemed

731
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: to be using is they're not a prose to picking

732
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: up road kills off the interstate. So we have all

733
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: these other food sources for them to take place of

734
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: a natural food failure. And we've seen it quite often

735
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: now with these in these years of natural food failures,

736
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: that the following year we'll see cubs or sALS that

737
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: have three cubs. So instead of having lost her cubs,

738
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: she was fat enough to pull off three cubs. And

739
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: we've seen the It appears the statistics don't show it

740
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: as clear um, but when I started in nineteen eighty,

741
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: if you saw a stile with three cubs, that was

742
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: huge news. I mean, we didn't have email, but you

743
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: called everybody anew and say, I just saw a stile

744
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: with three cubs. Can you believe that? Um? Now we

745
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: see them routinely every year. We did an episode once

746
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: about a bear called the Wisconsin supersou. She had five,

747
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: brought them all up to a hundred pounds. Two years later,

748
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: had five more and brought them all up two hundred pounds.

749
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: It's like a very successful and you know what it

750
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: wanted be in that she was doing. She it seems

751
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: as though she had found where the state was dumping

752
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: road kill carcasses, and so just it was like tied

753
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: to that, just like fitness and of great food source

754
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 1: and was reproductive, very savvy and also in a funny way,

755
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: very careless about her denning locations which just kind of

756
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: layout like just in a barely covered up in a

757
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: brush pile. Yeah. So we I mean we've seen that. Um.

758
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: When Tom was doing his study, we didn't think the

759
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 1: bears and the females were breeding until they were four

760
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: or five. Now it appears they're breeding near earlier. Um.

761
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: It appears that the litter size has gone up by

762
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: maybe a half. Um. You know, seeing we haven't seen

763
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: any fours yet that I have heard of. I mean

764
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: Wisconsin has it, Pennsylvania has it, where they'll have sALS,

765
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: they'll have four or five. So that's more common in

766
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: those areas. It's more common because if you look at

767
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: the food sources they have, I mean, their bears are

768
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: they generally have more bears than we do per square mile.

769
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: They generally have heavier bears than we do. When you

770
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: look at the food source out here, um, you know,

771
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,479
Speaker 1: we would say a lot of the Upper Eagle Valley

772
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: is not very good bear habitat because there's no oak

773
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: brush above Walcott. Almost all the oak brushes down here

774
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: or over in the Roaring Fork Valley, and oak brush

775
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: is considered to be one of the key things. But

776
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: the bears in the Upper Valley are making it on

777
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: service berry and choke cherry. I mean, that's that's what

778
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: they're living on. That that's their key winter survival is

779
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: to get enough service berry and choke cherry. So if

780
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: you put all those together, then all of a sudden,

781
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: instead of have a population that might grow ten percent

782
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: a year just to figure out of the air, now

783
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, they're growing fift of a year.

784
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean that's a huge jump in a population if

785
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: you can add even just two or three percent growth

786
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: in a year. And and that is a fact that

787
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: in a lot of units around here, the number of

788
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: bear tags that are that you guys issue has been

789
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: increased greatly. That's just to keep up with this growing population. Yeah,

790
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: it's an effort to try to keep up with your

791
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: growing population. So you got so, what year was that

792
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: the Colorado lost that spring season in late nineties mid

793
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: nineties and now so it used to so and you

794
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: just said that. I'm not questioning the clarity with what

795
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: you said. It's just a surprising to me. Now even

796
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: with the loss of the spring season, more black bears

797
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: are killed in Colorado annually, just in the fall season

798
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: alone now and there's more black bears altogether than before.

799
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: We We've I'd have to look at the numbers, but

800
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 1: we've had several years where we've harvested over a thousand

801
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: bears in a year out of statewide, statewide, and when

802
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: we had the spring hunt and the fall hunt with

803
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: bait and hounds. Um, I don't think we ever hit

804
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: a thousand. Do you find that? Um, there's some pretty

805
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: good bear hunters here, like is it is it like

806
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: a thing that guys get good at, or is it

807
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be like something that people kind of

808
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: just stumble into. Know that a lot of them have

809
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: gotten very good at it, and in fact, part of

810
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: the problem is some of them gotten so good at

811
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: it um that now when they buy a license, they're

812
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: only buying a license that they're looking for a specific bear,

813
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: an extremely large bear, a certain color phase, and if

814
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: they don't see it, they won't harvest to bear. And

815
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason we increase the tags is

816
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: because we've had a number of these guys have gotten

817
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: good and they've shot four or five bears and they're like,

818
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: I don't know how many more I need to shoot.

819
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: So unless I see something really special, I'm gonna go

820
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: out and hunt them still, but I'm not gonna pull

821
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: the trigger. What are the guys that are what are

822
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: the really good bear hunters? What do they do? They

823
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: spend most of August looking for either the choke cherry,

824
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: service berry or the oak brush that. No, they don't hunt.

825
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: They go out to scout. They're scouting and finding the

826
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: best patches of food supplies for these bears. So they're

827
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: looking for food they're looking for the food areas and

828
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: then they're moving into those areas when the bears move

829
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: in there. There every morning and after work with binoculars,

830
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: you know, scoping out four or five different spots to

831
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: see where they can see bears at and then they

832
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: once they find him at night, if it's not a

833
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: good opportunity there, back there the next morning or the

834
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: next night, setting up closer to where the bear was.

835
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: And it's usually hunting over fruit, not hunting acorn patch.

836
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: No acorn is big. They hunt a lot of them

837
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: over acorn, especially here in the Eagle because Brush Creek

838
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: has so much acorn. So how do you know when

839
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: you go into the air with a lot of acorn?

840
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: How do how do you guys know? Uh? Is it

841
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: pretty obvious one of the bears work in that area?

842
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: Just so people are aware. The acorns were talking about

843
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: a gamble o right, not like an oak tree, just

844
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: a brushy very di jinky little acor size of a

845
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: big one's the size of your little finger. Um and

846
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: one does bear season? You're opening The fall opens on

847
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: this second of September, And that was part of the

848
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: initiative that was passed by a vote at the Colorado

849
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: people on when it can open. One had it opened

850
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: in the past, Well, we had a spring season and

851
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: I think it open September. One done. It's been a

852
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: long time since I had to ask that answer that question.

853
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, now, Brody, what what prevents you from being

854
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: like a big time Colorado bear hunter guy? I've been

855
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: looking for one for this will be like six or

856
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: seven years in a row sitting water. He hasn't. He

857
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: didn't know this thing at I spend time grouse hunting

858
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: and then I get distracted, like looking for elk when

859
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: I'm should be looking for a bear. And but do

860
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: you go out because I know you like when you're

861
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: big game, when you're hunting deer and elk, you're open

862
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: to the idea of finding a bear. Yeah. So I'll

863
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: get a tag most years, like this year, I got

864
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: a tag around my house which is specific to that

865
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: September bear rifle season. But as these guys have increased

866
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: tag numbers, there are areas now that you can pick

867
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: up a second bear tag as a B tag, like

868
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: around here. So I'll get that rifle tag for September

869
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: and then pick up a B tag. So I'm packing

870
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: a bear tag while I'm hunting deer and elk too.

871
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,439
Speaker 1: But I've yet to you, yet to seal the deal

872
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: on my first Colorado black bear. I'm hoping that's going

873
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: to change this year because I can hunt right by

874
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: my house up north. It's been like right above the

875
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: house there. You saw that gam below on the hillside

876
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: and service Berry up there, so we'll see. I would

877
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: just take advantage of the officer Andre being here and

878
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: somehow tap into his electronal, tap into his communication. He

879
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: got any problem bears he need taking care of. We

880
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: actually have people call us and ask us that, I believe,

881
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: what's your policy on that. If it's a place they

882
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: can legally hunt, we'll tell But really, I mean to

883
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: what to what level of specificity? Like what would you say,

884
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: throw it? Just throw one out? I mean, if I

885
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: have a sheepherder losing bears, they're losing sheep to bear,

886
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell them give this person a call.

887
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: You know, the sheepherder will probably you'll have to understand

888
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: bask or Spanish whatever they talk um, but you know,

889
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,479
Speaker 1: otherwise you use hand signals and draw pictures. But most

890
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: of the time they're happy to help you. I mean

891
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: it's the problem on some of it is the bear

892
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: was in the sheep in this drainage and two days

893
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: later they're headed to another drainage. So you don't know

894
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: if the bear is going to go with him or

895
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: stay in that drainage. But if you know, if we

896
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: have a you know, if you have a bear in town,

897
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: you certainly can't put a hunter on it. And you

898
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: really don't want to say, well, if you sit up

899
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: on that hill just outside of town, that bear may

900
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: walk up or down, because you don't want them shooting

901
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: the bear and running into town. So only special circumstances

902
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: of the workout. Yeah, I mean sometimes you know with

903
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: the sheep, it will work out. Around the campground. Um.

904
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: Some of the campgrounds have continuous problems with bears in

905
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: the fall, and it's like, well, you're in the national forest,

906
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, stay away from the campground. UM. But certainly

907
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: especially on week days after after labor days over on

908
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: week days, there's hardly anybody in the campgrounds, so you

909
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: just have to be the distance for service requires you're

910
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: from a campground, you can set up and work that bear,

911
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: you know, Speaking of sheep, like, we've had questions about

912
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: predators that surplus kill. What's what's your thoughts on a

913
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: bear that goes in and kills ten sheep in a night?

914
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: Like what what's his motivation? Or I'm not Doctor Doolittle,

915
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: like we just had people ask people love the subject. Yeah,

916
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: feel that they're finding people like the idea. Okay, you

917
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 1: can't deny that it happens, and that I'm not asking

918
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: you what happened, like you can't deny that's now and

919
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: then like a predator is going to go in, a

920
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: bear line goes in and kills way more stuff they

921
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: could ever possibly consume. And I think people look there,

922
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: they want to hear about those because they're looking to

923
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: answer something in their mind. I have no idea their

924
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: motivation to it. Some people talk about they you know,

925
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: they get started and they just get into a frenzy.

926
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: They talk about the same thing with a weasel in

927
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: a henhouse that they just go on a killing spirit.

928
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 1: They're not counting, they're just doing what they're supposed to do. Yeah,

929
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 1: I haven't found one yet that's very good at counting,

930
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: so um, but yeah, they mean it just happens. So okay,

931
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: we can move on from this subject. But I got

932
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: one last question for you. You you you carry a

933
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: service weapon? Do you so when you're going into a

934
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: situation where you have a bear caught loose in someone's

935
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: yard or house or whatever, Uh, do you have like

936
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: a h did you carry a separate firearm for those situations? Well? We,

937
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: I mean we all carry shotguns and rifles. But you know,

938
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: if you're in a house, UM, you sure don't want

939
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: to uh let loose a three o eight round in

940
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: somebody's house, and and the shotgun can make a pretty

941
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,959
Speaker 1: big mess. It's it's generally if there's if we're looking

942
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: for a bear that's injured somebody, you'll see us out

943
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: with a rifle or a shotgun. If we're just going

944
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: into a house because the bear broke into a house,

945
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: you'll see a dark gun or just just our pistols

946
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: that we always have on. So do you carry a

947
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: dark gun too? We we don't have enough dark guns

948
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: for every officer, um, but like the on call, when

949
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 1: I'm on call, I generally pick up the dark gun. Um.

950
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: We have more than one for the area. I think

951
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: we have four for eight guys. So usually the on

952
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: call officer picks up one so he has it with him. Um,

953
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: and and otherwise that the problem is otherwise you store

954
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: them sometimes in Glenwood, Carbondale or here an Eagle, And

955
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: if you're up in Veil when the call comes and

956
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: it's in Veil, then you gotta run back here have

957
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: somebody from here bring it up to you. So usually

958
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: the on call officer picks up a dart gun and

959
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: has it with him. I feel like they should supply

960
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: you guys with a handful of more dark guns. Well,

961
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: they probably should. They're expensive little items. Yeah, yeah, they're

962
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: they're they're pretty close three thousand apiece. So alright, Uh man,

963
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: we have a bunch of things we wanted to ask

964
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: you about, Brody asked the while we're on bears, can

965
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: we just like we still hit embarrassing? Yeah? Can we

966
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: just get into the other bear that may or may

967
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: not be around or do you not want to get

968
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: into that? Go ahead, go ahead, We're getting into this later.

969
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: But we'll get into it later. I mean, yeah, okay,

970
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: go ahead. Yeah. Well, we just we're hanging out with

971
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: another fellow that hunts about in Colorado, and uh he

972
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: seems to think that they're accomplished hunter. Yea, we accomplished

973
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: hunters sin's a lot of time out there, hangs out

974
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: with a lot of people to hang out. You know,

975
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: there are in the woods a lot family has been

976
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: here for a bazillion years. Yes, homestead. I think the

977
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: simplest way to say is that is that he believes

978
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: that there's a conspiracy. I feel like you're leading to this. Okay,

979
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 1: go ahead. There were that somehow that there's were there's

980
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: grizzly bears in Colorado, but they're being they're being trapped

981
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: and moved back up to Wyoming, and it's being covered up.

982
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: Nobody gets to hear anything about it. In this day

983
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: and age of cell phones and game cameras everywhere, I

984
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: don't think you could cover anything up. I mean, are

985
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:17,760
Speaker 1: there grizzly bears in Colorado? Honestly, I don't know. Um,

986
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: you know, we had a wolverine come from Yellowstone. We've

987
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: had our links go from here all the way back

988
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: to Canada and in Alaska where they were caught. Um,

989
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: we've had wolves come down from Yellowstone. Um could a

990
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: grizzly bear do it? You bet? So? If somebody says

991
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: it's as possible ones here, sure it's possible. We don't

992
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: have any definitive proof, you know, on the wolves that

993
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: showed up, they got hit by a car, one got shot,

994
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: one got poisoned. We got definitive proofs wolves have made it.

995
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: We got definitive proof on links and the wolverine that

996
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 1: they made the trek Um. We just don't have any

997
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: definitive proof that there's any grizzly bears in Colorado? Do

998
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: you guys investigate credible reports? We look into concredit. Yeah,

999
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: I'm not your invest the gates the right word, but yes,

1000
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: we we look into it, especially if they have a picture.

1001
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: I mean you'll get reports lots of time that well,

1002
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,959
Speaker 1: this is bigger than any black bear I've ever seen,

1003
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 1: so it had to be at grizzly. Yeah, but well

1004
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: we've handled two. We handled a bear in Glenwood I

1005
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: think in two thousand and twelve that twenty four hours

1006
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 1: after it died at wage seven and thirty eight pounds

1007
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: in August. WHOA, Yeah, And I don't always understand the

1008
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: size thing, because there's plenty of two pounds hundred pound

1009
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: grizzlies running around them. That's the thing I don't get either,

1010
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: because like you know, grizzlies do get to can get

1011
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: to be huge, but there's like a ton of a

1012
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: couple hundred pound grizzlies, and there's a lot of black

1013
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: bears in the United States. They're way bigger than the

1014
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: average grizzly. Yeah, but I mean everything that people see

1015
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: is always much bigger than than it really is, and

1016
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,720
Speaker 1: that's just human nature. I mean, you guys have all hunted.

1017
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: You've all seen ground shrinkage where you shot an animal.

1018
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: It's like, this is a huge buck and it's like, huh,

1019
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: he's sure shrunk when he hit the ground. Yeah, everybody

1020
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: that runs in New a lion, big old Tom, big

1021
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: old Tom. And if okay, so let's say they're one

1022
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: did turn up or whatever, wouldn't it be the case

1023
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: that there's no no way you guys are gonna like

1024
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: cover it up, Like you would have to notify US

1025
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife because there's an endangered species aspect to it, correct,

1026
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: Like they would have to become involved in some way.

1027
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: I wrong, But I don't know what they have to.

1028
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if all it is is a sighting. But

1029
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, if if there was one confirmed in Colorado,

1030
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: like you guys knew, but I mean, certainly if we

1031
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: trapped one. There's no way you would keep it quiet.

1032
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: I mean somebody it's you know, just like everything else

1033
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,439
Speaker 1: on the internet. Somebody's gonna post that picture, maybe only

1034
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: to send it to their best friend, and their best

1035
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: friends gonna send it to his best friend. It's gonna leak.

1036
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: It's gonna leaky, and it like if they said yes

1037
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: they are, you know, if it was confirmed they are here.

1038
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 1: At that point, would US Fish and Wildlife have to

1039
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: become involved because they're an endangered species, um threaten or what? However?

1040
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: There could be very they'd be very interesting. Yeah, I

1041
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: mean Idaho just he could prove their grizzly bear hunt.

1042
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: So one tag. Yeah, I think it is one tag

1043
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: for Idaho. Yeah, so I don't know for sure what

1044
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: that involvement would have to be in that all right? Uh,

1045
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: who wants to who wants to lay out how you

1046
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: guys totally screwed up how you run uh tag draws

1047
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: in Colorado? Well you're the one that's complaining about not drawing.

1048
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: You lay it out, Brodie. Oh so this this you

1049
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,800
Speaker 1: guys went to a new basically a new re online

1050
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: retail system and new kind of draw like licensing draw

1051
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 1: process where you do not have to pay up front

1052
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: for the tag during the the application process. So and

1053
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: you is pasted. You paid the full fee for the

1054
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: license before that, the whole draw application process went through.

1055
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 1: If you didn't draw, you then got refunded that money.

1056
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: Now it's just a three dollar application fee, no money

1057
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 1: up front, And it seems like it doesn't seem like

1058
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: like the application numbers have increased greatly because you're not

1059
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: investing up front in that. So we're just wondering, like,

1060
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: was there a thought process why c p W doesn't

1061
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: want the money up front anymore? Or is there like

1062
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: is there some reasoning behind the process, like just not

1063
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: going through the refund thing is simpler and saves time

1064
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: and money. And yeah, that's exactly thought. You guys made

1065
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: a lot of money by having all that money right

1066
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: hold away into bank account. Well I have thought that too,

1067
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 1: but I was told we don't. Everybody thought everybody it

1068
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: was like a big thing, like making millions on interest

1069
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: on off of all. I mean, you think about and

1070
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: you've got a better banker than most people. You know,

1071
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: you're looking at a normal bank under one percent a

1072
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 1: normal bank account. If you get a CD for saying

1073
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: it wasn't even being put in a bank account. It was, well,

1074
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: it was in a bank account. But I don't think

1075
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: it's creating any interest. I feel like I need to

1076
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: back up from it. I feel like I needed I

1077
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: feel like some people, some people are not gonna understand

1078
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: FLA what we're talking about. So in instances where you

1079
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: have a greater demand for tags than there are hunting

1080
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: tags available, so there's more people to want to go

1081
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: hunt elk and some mountain range than the population can support, you,

1082
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: AH got a limited all, right, and so you hand

1083
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: out opportunities through a lottery permit. Some every state handles

1084
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: is differently. But Colorado was a state where you sent

1085
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: in all the money, right, and then they do their

1086
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: drawing and refund you. But but how long would the

1087
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: how long would you be your money? A couple of months? Yea,

1088
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: from from May to July? Okay, So someone's like out

1089
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: of pocket a substantial amount of money for talking like right,

1090
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: especially if it's a nonresident applying for a moose, sheep

1091
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: or go tag. That's you know, you're putting down a

1092
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: couple of thousand bucks for potentially if you're applying for

1093
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: all three of those you're putting down six thousand bucks

1094
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: for a tag that you don't even know if you're

1095
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: gonna draw. I had heard before, not particularly not not

1096
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: pertaining to Colorado, but I've heard before the reason they

1097
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: did the pay up front thing is because states used

1098
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: to do the drawing and then have people be like dah,

1099
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: but I don't actually have the money, okay, so it

1100
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: messes your whole system up. So like, okay, everybody pays

1101
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: up front that when we know it's all paid for,

1102
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: and when we pick a guy or a woman, um,

1103
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: they're good for the expense because they already pay for

1104
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: the dame thing. So now what Colorado is doing right

1105
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: is the minute your name comes up, you get being

1106
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: by the computer, they run your credit card right and

1107
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: if you if you, they give you a couple of

1108
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: weeks after the licenses that that are announced, like but

1109
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: if but if your credit card is not good. I

1110
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: think this year the licenses were announced this week's so

1111
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: first week of June. If if you haven't paid for

1112
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: that thing by June, and then they go down the list.

1113
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: So got like, I don't understand why so many more

1114
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: people I've heard all kinds of or heard there's increase

1115
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: in the amount of people applying for non resident big

1116
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: game tags in Colorado. I've heard you said you used

1117
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: off the chart. You're still paying all the money, Like

1118
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: what is what was people's problem? They didn't want to

1119
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: be out the money for a couple of months. Well,

1120
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: here's the deal in Colorado. Something that we should have

1121
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: explained to um is that as a non resident, you

1122
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: couldn't do credit card for moves sheep and go. So

1123
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: you couldn't just have be a guy that had like

1124
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: a credit card with the limit of ten grain you have.

1125
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: She had to have sixth grade in your savings and

1126
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: then write out three checks to the box of piece

1127
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: to apply for those three So that's like even at

1128
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: one step hard. Yeah, it's not funny. No, I didn't

1129
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: realize that a couple of very stern looks when my

1130
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: wife would be like what, oh, I like, well, I

1131
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: only did sheep and moose, I didn't do all three. Yeah,

1132
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: my wife when I when I you know, started getting

1133
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: involved with my wife and we got to the point

1134
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: where we combined finances, which we resisted for a while,

1135
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: but she just got fed up with She likes to

1136
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: just know everything what's going on. And it was like

1137
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: the annual discussion we had to have about like she's

1138
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: like this cannot be real, and I might listen. I

1139
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: didn't make it up. It's not my choice. But yes,

1140
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: there there is a substantial sum of money scattered around

1141
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: in various state bank accounts, and it will all come

1142
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: back if I don't draw. It'd be like, well you

1143
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: better not draw unless you win lottery, in which case

1144
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: you will be out. Part of it's just this, I think,

1145
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: just the psychological barrier. People are just like that doesn't

1146
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: cost me anything. I'll apply, you know, and I'll figure

1147
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: it out if I get dropped. I wasn't thinking about

1148
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: you actually had to write a check, like you really

1149
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: need the money for those for those cheap moose goat tags,

1150
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: the rest of them not not. So what was what's

1151
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: the motivation? Like why I change it? Well, I had

1152
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 1: to make a better system and it yeah. I still

1153
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: had people that were doing paper applications. And you know,

1154
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: every time you use a credit card, you get charged

1155
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: a fee. So you're getting charged to fee to to

1156
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: take the person's money as the credit card, and then

1157
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 1: instead of refunding it back on the credit card, we

1158
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: are writing them a check. So every time you write

1159
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: a check, there's a cost to write a check, so

1160
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: that I mean there was a huge cost savings to

1161
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:02,439
Speaker 1: do away with that fee, so run to draw costs money. Yes, yeah,

1162
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: and it just simplified the whole administrative process of it.

1163
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: I mean even it will as we work all the bugs.

1164
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: Anytime you open a new system, doesn't matter what it

1165
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: is that I mean, there's gonna be bugs. I mean

1166
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: some people were getting notified ten times that they've got

1167
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: a license, and they're like, did I get ten licenses?

1168
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: They're like, free, today is a good day. I got

1169
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: ten deer tags. So all they got the email ten times.

1170
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just gonna be glitches in any new

1171
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: system you have, and and they just have to be

1172
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: worked through the fact that more people put in. And

1173
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the numbers yet either, but I have

1174
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: heard that it is a significant increase in the number

1175
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: of people putting in. Um, the fact that more people

1176
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: put in it seems like, well something worked. Yeah. Well,

1177
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: I have three different perspectives on and they're they're competing

1178
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: their their contradictory one is just from a purely like

1179
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,080
Speaker 1: what's in it for me? I remember my nine. A

1180
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: government teacher L de Young would always express everything in

1181
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,439
Speaker 1: the world where he would say, like and remember, I'm

1182
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: only concerned with what affects al de Young, and that

1183
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: was like, that was how he explained the government right.

1184
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: He would he would discourage students from getting registered. He said,

1185
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 1: why would I want you people to vote? Why would

1186
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: I want to dilute my vote? So that was like

1187
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: so in looking at it from the L. De Young perspective,

1188
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: I'm bummed because now I have more competition to draw

1189
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: a permit, so that that's pretty selfish and I recognize that,

1190
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: but there's a part of my brain that holds that

1191
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: to be true. Part three, they're part two, And my

1192
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: competing perspectives on this Part two is I'm usually not

1193
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: resistant to they're being barriers to entry because it winds

1194
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 1: up being that the more dedicated, right, the favors the

1195
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: more dedicated people. Like I remember for a while in

1196
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: Montana you had to buy your bear license before bear season.

1197
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: They're thinking was they wanted to they wanted to prevent

1198
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: people from getting a bear and then running down and

1199
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: getting a tag because in the spring season they would

1200
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: find that it was a lot of just sort of

1201
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: incidental harvest. And so they're like, well, we're gonna look

1202
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: like people who are planning to go bear hunting making

1203
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: a specific effort to go on a bear hunts. You

1204
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: have to buy it that law came in. I thought,

1205
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, I get it. That makes sense that there

1206
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: were people who are like dedicated to it. They're on

1207
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: top of it, they're following the rules, they know what's

1208
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: going on, right, and it gives a favoritism to that.

1209
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: They since got rid of that, and I was a

1210
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: little bit saddened by it. Now Part three, the part

1211
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: that competes is there shouldn't be any barriers to entry, right,

1212
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: it should be just more wide open, more availability, easier

1213
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: for people to participate. So I believe I feel all

1214
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: of these things, even though they don't all line up,

1215
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: meaning I see both sides of the story or all

1216
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: three sides of the story. Okay, agree with that. I'm

1217
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: a little saddened kind because that part one part about

1218
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: like I'm concerned only with what affects l the young

1219
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: part It's like I really am, like you know, I'm

1220
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: looking at him like really that just got harder, so

1221
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: got easier, harder, harder to draw, easier, and that That's

1222
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: another thing is we're like we're constantly hearing like about

1223
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: hunter numbers just falling, falling, falling, But yet it's like

1224
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 1: harder and harder to get a tag. And how how

1225
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: does that? How do those two things kind of line

1226
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: up with each other? If there's less hunters, why is

1227
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 1: it hard? Because the numbers that are falling are the

1228
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: dudes that used to buy like a used to hunt

1229
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: pheasants for a day. But there's more guys that are

1230
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: getting seriously just way more. The number of like the

1231
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: number of like hardcore hunters I feel has to be

1232
01:05:56,120 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: your choppers here to take you to dinniversity. He's gonna

1233
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: drop me on a hunting spot on the way, give

1234
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: me the coordinates for that way, like to run over there.

1235
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: No quick should be aside a. So less serious hunters gone, Okay,

1236
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I like I don't know, I feel that

1237
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: there's I feel the number of like really dedicated hunters

1238
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 1: who are like out there, you know, applying for permits

1239
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: and crawling back into all the high holes is going up.

1240
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: What do you think? Um? Yeah, I think in some

1241
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: areas it is definitely. I mean we're seeing that a

1242
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: lot of it is. I mean, you guys are perfect examples.

1243
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: How many different states do you put in for so

1244
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 1: you could have the same number of hunters and decide

1245
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put into two states this year instead of one,

1246
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 1: and so those two states see an increase in the

1247
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: number they get. And I think that's a lot of it.

1248
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: Can you speak at all, just quickly to that declining

1249
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, supposed declining number of hunters, Like we're just

1250
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: like hearing all these doomsday scenarios all the time. Well,

1251
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's doomsday, but unfortunately I represent

1252
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: that um in that our average age of hunters is

1253
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: getting older every year. And you would think, well, of

1254
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: course everybody is a year older. But if you got

1255
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: a sixty year old guy and you bring in a

1256
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: fourteen year old kid, you just dropped that age level

1257
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: way down. So it's the fact that that we're an

1258
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 1: aging part. The baby boomers are aging, and I think

1259
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: it's I can't remeber if it's fifty five or fifty six,

1260
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 1: but it's in the fifties somewhere is the average age

1261
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: of a hunter, and you know everything's coming and they're

1262
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 1: looking more golf time. They may not be in the

1263
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: same shape. Um, you've got travel restrictions in a lot

1264
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: of areas. Um, just the cost of getting places if

1265
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: you're coming from another state to hunt here, it's getting

1266
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: more and more expensive. So I mean, I definitely if

1267
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 1: you go out, if you went out and spent a

1268
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: day with us. When you go into camps, you remember

1269
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: the camp where you can say there was two people

1270
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: into thirty years old in that camp, or that camp

1271
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: was everybody under twenty. They were all young kids out

1272
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 1: there hunting. That's all I run into. Is anomaly you're

1273
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:19,640
Speaker 1: saying now, Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean it used to

1274
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 1: be nothing to see UM families out there, maybe just

1275
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: the mom, maybe just the dad, but they'd have two

1276
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: or three kids with them sometimes that we're old enough

1277
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 1: to hunt. But they're out there now. You might see

1278
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: that on a Saturday or Sunday, but they're all gone

1279
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: by Monday. So it's in your opinion, it's a recruitment thing.

1280
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: It is definitely a recruitment and retention. When we went

1281
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: to totally limited deer tags and I don't remember the number,

1282
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 1: we lost a lot of deer hunters and they really

1283
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: haven't come back because they used to be over the

1284
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 1: county used to be over the counter you can get

1285
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: you could make the decision that day. Here you can

1286
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: make the decision a couple of days after. You had

1287
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: to go to a UH Division Wildlife office and buy

1288
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 1: your license there after the season open. But you could

1289
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:02,799
Speaker 1: get it over the tag deer hunt and go whenever

1290
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:06,560
Speaker 1: you want it. Now it's it's all draw you know.

1291
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: A lot of the people have just they're like, you know,

1292
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: I just don't want to fight with it. It takes

1293
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: me two years or three years to get a tag.

1294
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 1: I just don't want to do it. Um, brodyn tee up.

1295
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: The shed hunting thing you guys like actually came in

1296
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 1: and now you manage sheds like you manage shed antlers

1297
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: like game animals. Now there's there's rules around it. There

1298
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: is rules around it, So I mean I could I'll

1299
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: speak to my history of it. I used to get

1300
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 1: after it pretty hard. Um. You know. Shed hunting has

1301
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: gotten more and more popular in the West all over

1302
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: the place really um, but it's like highly competitive, and

1303
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: it got to the point where there were days when

1304
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: I'd go out shed hunting and late winter early spring

1305
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: where I would see more guys out shed hunting than

1306
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 1: I would ever see during rifle deer season, like running

1307
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: into it's so weird. Like when I was a boy,

1308
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: it would be that if you saw one, you might

1309
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 1: pick it up. But also like the whole country decided

1310
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: that it was just the most important thing you could

1311
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: be doing, is being out picking up antlers, and and

1312
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 1: I look, I I got pretty serious about it for

1313
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 1: a while, but then I started like, because you're trying

1314
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: to make money on it, well, because the chew toy market. No,

1315
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: I mean I just collected him and liked looking at him.

1316
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,719
Speaker 1: Before we moved. I sold a bunch for a couple

1317
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: of thousand bucks. But um, you had enough that you

1318
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: had enough to make it worth selling. Because that's another thing.

1319
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: And just like have we talked about this before? That

1320
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: the market, So there's a commercial market for antlers, and

1321
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: it was the chandelier So like antler, chandeliers became popelars,

1322
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: so they became a market for chandeliers and decorations. And

1323
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: then the chew toy market took off where they buy

1324
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: antlers and saw him up and sell them for an

1325
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: ungodly automony, and pet stores they do all sorts with them.

1326
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: They grind them up in a powder. No, that's only

1327
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: with velvet. But is there anything else that you know

1328
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: build the antlers are sold or used for after they're sold. No,

1329
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 1: that I mean those are the three main things that

1330
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 1: they go overseas and then chew toys. And but I

1331
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: don't even know if that commercial market is even close

1332
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 1: to being the main problem. No, But but it's this.

1333
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: But here's the point I'm getting at. And I can't

1334
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: tell you that this is actually true or not. But

1335
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 1: what feels to me, what seems to me correlated, is

1336
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 1: as the commercial market developed, the recreational market became like

1337
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: people all of a sudden ascribed a value to it.

1338
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 1: For instance, with Morel's when you hear that morals are

1339
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: worth x dollars a pound in a restaurant, it increases

1340
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 1: people's interests, like they're like, oh, that's something I'd like

1341
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: to find and eat. If they're so valuable, it makes

1342
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: me want to go do it, for instance, like trapping

1343
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 1: spot trapping spot proms or spot shrump. Knowing that that's

1344
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:07,719
Speaker 1: the most like we trap them, And in my mind

1345
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: I get sort of like I can't help but get

1346
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 1: slightly more excited about it, knowing that it is the

1347
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 1: most expensive shrimp. And then when you hear that they're

1348
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: going for like thirty some dollars a pound, I'm like, wow,

1349
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 1: you're running the numbers in your head. And then I'm

1350
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm like kind of sinfully almost viewing

1351
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: them differently knowing the value. So I feel that as

1352
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: that chew toy market and chandelier market came in, people

1353
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 1: also also we're like, I just want to find it

1354
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: and have it laying around. And because I now recognize

1355
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:37,680
Speaker 1: the value and get a picture of your holding it

1356
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 1: on social media, I mean that's a huge part of Yeah,

1357
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: people do grip and grins with antlers. Yeah. Man, Like,

1358
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: so you didn't do anything, You just picked the damn thing. Yeah,

1359
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: I mean, but they it is like as big as

1360
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 1: having a picture of you holding the big buck. If

1361
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: you're holding the set of matched antlers, man, that's like, yeah,

1362
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: so now we got Bill tell us why this increase um? Yeah? Yeah,

1363
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 1: what happened. Also, every time Dick and Brody is our

1364
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: scrounged around on the woods for handlers, Yeah, and they're

1365
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 1: competitive about it. I want to get there before Brody

1366
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: and from out of state, from from well, yeah, well,

1367
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 1: part of the problem was, you know, Wyomings always had

1368
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 1: closures on winter range, so you couldn't go there and

1369
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 1: hunt stuff, but on very specific patch of the ground

1370
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 1: right right right, but there was still closures. And and

1371
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 1: then Utah did there. It was free, but you had

1372
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: to do the permit over the internet, taking educational test

1373
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: on it and go. No big deal. But what we

1374
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 1: saw as other places close things, and as you get

1375
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 1: units like we're sitting in here now forty four that's

1376
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 1: a trophy deer unit, a known trophy deer unit where

1377
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: people are doing their grips and grins with their harvested

1378
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 1: two thirty bucks. People like I want to go there,

1379
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 1: and I want to go there in the spring and

1380
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: I'll scout and I'll pick up outlers and I'll know

1381
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for. And it's it was no longer

1382
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 1: the recreation guy that maybe on Saturday there's ten people

1383
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: in you Go county out hunting it. It's like on

1384
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 1: Monday there's five people out there hunting it, and on

1385
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: Tuesday there's five people out there hunting, and on Wednesday,

1386
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: I don't know five. What people forget is I mean,

1387
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that Brody walked up the same hill

1388
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,719
Speaker 1: yesterday that I'm gonna walk up today. So you're looking

1389
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 1: at an animal again. Remember, these does are all pregnant,

1390
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 1: they're in their third trimester, they're coming off a starvation.

1391
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,600
Speaker 1: They're starving during the winter, no matter what the winter is.

1392
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:41,639
Speaker 1: Your quote is winter weekends, spring kills, right, And it's

1393
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're looking at all these things. And

1394
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: now you've got these people out there pushing deer. We've

1395
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 1: we've had reports. I haven't seen it, but I believe

1396
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: it will happen that people are out chasing the bucks,

1397
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 1: trying to get him and in December, trying to get

1398
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: him excited where they run and maybe knock their antlers off.

1399
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 1: I've heard many December in December, but I mean I've

1400
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: seen it out of a helicopter that as you're counting deer,

1401
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 1: they jump a fence and an antler drops off. But

1402
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: certainly even February, you know, yeah, I've heard many reports

1403
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:16,559
Speaker 1: that some like firsthand reports of people seeing oh like

1404
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 1: a bull that's already dropped one and trying to chase,

1405
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 1: thinking to the other one's gotta be ready to fall.

1406
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,799
Speaker 1: And and there's I mean, I've seen it firsthand of people.

1407
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 1: Every night on their way home for work, stop at

1408
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 1: a place that has elk winter range. There was seven

1409
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 1: bulls there yesterday. There's only five today, but there's seven elk.

1410
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 1: They dropped their antlers. The next morning, they're up there

1411
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: looking for him. Well, the next guy comes in, he

1412
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: doesn't know somebody else gonna do it. I'm gonna go

1413
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 1: up there tonight, you know. And then that's well, I

1414
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 1: didn't find it, but they got to be there because

1415
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,679
Speaker 1: they're still there, so they go up the next day.

1416
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: You just keep pushing these animals, and you're just you're

1417
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 1: impacting the animal that you want to be as healthy

1418
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: as possible to produce the best offspring and and to

1419
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 1: have the biggest set antlers they can for these is

1420
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: they're looking for a trophy animal because it's just the

1421
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 1: time of year where those animals cannot afford to burn

1422
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: extra calories. That's kind of the irony of it, right,

1423
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:11,480
Speaker 1: is that in looking for antlers, you sort of celebrating

1424
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 1: this emblem of like a really healthy mature animal, but

1425
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 1: in doing it, you're impairing its ability to become a big,

1426
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: healthy mature animal, and you're impairing the ability for that

1427
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: herd to grow. I mean, if you stress those doughs

1428
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,600
Speaker 1: enough that they don't put on you know, in a

1429
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: in about April, these animals can start to gain weight.

1430
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,680
Speaker 1: And that's really crucial for those doughs. They start to

1431
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: gain weight because lactation is the most energy requiring item

1432
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: they're going to go through in their life. So they're

1433
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 1: coming out of a starvation, they're trying to put weight on,

1434
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 1: they're gonna give birth, they're going to go right into lactation.

1435
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 1: I mean, they've got to have time to pick up

1436
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: whatever weight they can. If that dough doesn't get enough

1437
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:55,680
Speaker 1: food to do good lactation, those fawns don't make it,

1438
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: or they make it as a run. So just like

1439
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 1: we talked about on the bear, now got an age

1440
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 1: class of the that didn't make it or their subpars,

1441
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 1: so they don't make it through the winter. And if

1442
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: that dough or cows in bad enough shape, they won't

1443
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:11,559
Speaker 1: breathe in the fall because they're they're just not in

1444
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 1: good enough shape to get pregnant. So people are clear

1445
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: that the new rule is west of you cannot shed

1446
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 1: hunt on public land before May one. Have you had

1447
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 1: to have you issued a citation um. In some areas

1448
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: we've issued citation in other ways. We had a closure here,

1449
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: so we could issue citations um. In some of the

1450
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: areas west of they hadn't had a closure, so they

1451
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,640
Speaker 1: have to give just warnings. Now if I if I

1452
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: warned you and I see you out the next day,

1453
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: I can issue a citation. But because it's a new rule,

1454
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,720
Speaker 1: we generally give them a grace period that you'll just

1455
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: get a warning. Oh, I think just for wearing it

1456
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 1: for the first year. Yeah, did you notice you feel

1457
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: that that's gonna be effective? Like have you? Did you

1458
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: kind of notice a change? And I mean there's well

1459
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 1: the change we noticed was we had several people hearing

1460
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 1: eagle that got permission to hunt on private land and

1461
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 1: that somebody would see him walking the fence line and

1462
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: maybe they were over the fence line, maybe they weren't,

1463
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 1: but they were turning them in. Oh. And then the

1464
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 1: guy would say, well, I saw Brody down there, glass

1465
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 1: in me. That's I saw that sucker up on this

1466
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 1: side doing it. So they're turning one another. You know.

1467
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: I was walking into a spot to rabbit hunt in

1468
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: February and there is a lady that I see hiking

1469
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 1: in a certain area with her dog and she's like,

1470
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's just you're not supposed to be shed hunting.

1471
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm rabbit hunting. It's okay, So so

1472
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 1: what is the exact prohibition. It's picking it up actually

1473
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: going from memory. I haven't read it in a month

1474
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 1: or so, but it's actually uh searching for it, marking

1475
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 1: it or picking it up. So if you're out there

1476
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 1: with your GPS and marking out, you've got a problem.

1477
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,760
Speaker 1: I got you. So then it kind of gets into um,

1478
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 1: how to stop a dude walking around the woods and

1479
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 1: be like, what exactly is your intention right now? Well,

1480
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 1: you don't have to necessarily stop him if you watch

1481
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: him and you know you you see him doing this

1482
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,559
Speaker 1: grid pattern. Not many people hunt rabbits in a grid

1483
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 1: pattern and then they don't stop and do this. Oh yeah,

1484
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: I saw a bunny here. Let me mark that. Yeah,

1485
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:23,880
Speaker 1: So I mean there again, it's it's you know, it's

1486
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,679
Speaker 1: the circumstances and you gotta put the whole picture together.

1487
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 1: But was there quite a bit of blowback where people

1488
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,759
Speaker 1: pissed about it. There was a lot of people pissed

1489
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: about it. But what what do they view were they

1490
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 1: were they annoyed because man, I like to hunt shed

1491
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 1: antlers and now I'm annoyed or they annoyed because this

1492
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,799
Speaker 1: is a weird way for government to kind of step

1493
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:45,679
Speaker 1: into one's life. I think more of it was, well,

1494
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 1: more of it was actually I'm obeyed the rule, but

1495
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: he's not. Oh, I want you to do something about

1496
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:53,759
Speaker 1: So yeah, I can see that everyone's gonna go anyway,

1497
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 1: but now I don't feel like I can go. And

1498
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think what you'll see is more and

1499
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 1: more states do this. You'll really dilute the impact to

1500
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 1: each one of the states. Because you know, if Wyoming

1501
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 1: had it that you can't hunt there during these months,

1502
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 1: will they come here? And if Utah has something, well,

1503
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 1: they can't go there. And I think Nevada has done.

1504
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 1: There's four or five different states some season of enclosures.

1505
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, but I think that's mainly on their

1506
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 1: state property, state game management with winter range areas. So

1507
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:27,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're going to see but you know,

1508
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 1: part of it is is we've been pushing, especially in

1509
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:33,960
Speaker 1: this area and in the resort areas, that the level

1510
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 1: of recreation. I mean, as I sit here and look out.

1511
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 1: There's probably been a hundred people go by this path

1512
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:40,680
Speaker 1: up above us, which isn't a big deal. It's not

1513
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: a spring winter or spring area or winter range right now.

1514
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,439
Speaker 1: But the recreation has become such a huge issue here,

1515
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 1: and there's been a lot of studies done on the

1516
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:52,640
Speaker 1: impact of any type of recreation or human disturbance on

1517
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 1: these animals that we felt you'd be a hypocrite not

1518
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,799
Speaker 1: to say that, hey, you're out hunting sheds, you're impacting

1519
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 1: these animals just like a person running mountain, biking, horseback riding,

1520
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 1: or a TV in out there. We gotta step back

1521
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 1: and say we got to protect this too. I mean,

1522
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 1: it's not about the sheds, it's about protecting those animals

1523
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: that are out there trying to make the living through

1524
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 1: the winter and come into spring in good shape so

1525
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:22,719
Speaker 1: they can reproduce. Yeah. Yeah, it's a pro wildlife should

1526
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 1: be viewed as a pro wildlife, pro hunting move right.

1527
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah? Um, are there really like a whole

1528
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:37,439
Speaker 1: ton more moose in Colorado now than it used to be? Well,

1529
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: we reintroduced him in the late seventies and our population

1530
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 1: now I didn't I didn't realize you guys had to

1531
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 1: do a reintroduction here out well, I don't know, well

1532
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: wiped out or just no longer here. I don't believe

1533
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: it or not. I wasn't around in those years when

1534
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:55,679
Speaker 1: when moose might have been here before with the country

1535
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: was settled. But we reintroduced him up in North Park.

1536
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 1: So we went from I think it was seventy seventy

1537
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: nine we reintroduced him, and now we have about just

1538
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: a little over three thousand moose in the state. We

1539
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 1: hunt him in sixty different gm us, and we give

1540
01:22:14,439 --> 01:22:18,799
Speaker 1: out like four hundred and fifty tags each year for moose,

1541
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 1: and you're adding more hunts and new units almost every year.

1542
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: Almost every year we add some more. So I'm sure

1543
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 1: you're a word of like in in a lot of

1544
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 1: the northern tier states, moose are in real trouble because

1545
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: of primarily because of some pathogens, but in also because

1546
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: of increased predation in some areas. And just like it's

1547
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:48,759
Speaker 1: a pretty bleak picture, um, you know, from Maine, Minnesota westward. Uh,

1548
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,640
Speaker 1: it's like a pretty bleak picture in certain patches of

1549
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:55,599
Speaker 1: moose range. So it's curious to hear that moose seemed

1550
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 1: to be doing there seems to be more moose every

1551
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 1: year in Colorado, right, I mean, we don't have brain

1552
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: worm here, hopefully we won't. Um. You know, our our

1553
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:11,799
Speaker 1: tick situation isn't the same as the like Minnesota, Maine. Um.

1554
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 1: I mean it was up in Idaho recently and you

1555
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 1: couldn't walk outside in in May and Idaho without picking

1556
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 1: up ticks. We don't have the same level of ticks,

1557
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 1: and and ticks are becoming a big issue for him. Um.

1558
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:25,760
Speaker 1: We're at a little bit of a higher elevation than

1559
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: a lot of these places. It may not be so

1560
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 1: certainly the ticks, the lack of the brain worm, and

1561
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:32,639
Speaker 1: a lot of these places where you see the moose

1562
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: population going down always seems to be where there's a

1563
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 1: good number of white tailed deer, and so far in

1564
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:42,519
Speaker 1: western Colorado we don't have a large, uh influx of

1565
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 1: white tailed deer. So I think that that plays a

1566
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 1: little there the vector for the brain work. Yeah, but definitely,

1567
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,720
Speaker 1: you know, anytime you're bringing animal into a habitat that

1568
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 1: they haven't occupied, that that's good. There's kind of a

1569
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: niche that's waiting for him. So you can see this

1570
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 1: huge jump you see it in you a res of war.

1571
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 1: When a new reservoirs created, fishing is great for the

1572
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 1: first five or six years, and then all of a

1573
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: sudden really tapers off. So that's where we put some

1574
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:09,720
Speaker 1: turkeys in and in a while later it just explodes

1575
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 1: and then they kind of they kind of hit that

1576
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 1: level that now we can really grow the population, and

1577
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 1: then they kind of plateau or or dropped down. So

1578
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 1: we're still in the in the climbing stages even from

1579
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: like so, so that's interesting that even from the late

1580
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: seventies they're still sort of doing that thing of like

1581
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 1: establishing a new territory and exploiting a niche that hadn't

1582
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 1: been exploited before. I mean, we moved him to North Park,

1583
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: we moved him to the Grand Mace, we moved him

1584
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:40,080
Speaker 1: to the flat Tops, moved him down in the southwest

1585
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 1: part of the state. And the actually the ones in

1586
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 1: Eagle County here all came on their own. We haven't

1587
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: transplanted any of these in Um. I mean, the first

1588
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:50,599
Speaker 1: moose that I knew have showed up in about two

1589
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 1: walking through the town of Vale, and by I think

1590
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 1: it was nine nine, we had them winnering in Homesteak Um.

1591
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 1: So they've kind of they've kind of taken off and

1592
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: done it on their own. I think part of what

1593
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 1: we're seeing, especially around the resort towns is in some

1594
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:11,000
Speaker 1: places we may not have reached the habitats capability to

1595
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 1: handle them, but we may have reached the fact that

1596
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,840
Speaker 1: they're moving into towns. They're happy to live in a town.

1597
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 1: I live near Steamboat, and there's a lot of human

1598
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 1: moose conflict, and they're really surprisingly tolerant of of people

1599
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 1: in the way, like even an anchor's where they'll just

1600
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 1: settle in and like spend their whole winter in something

1601
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:35,920
Speaker 1: in a yard. They're they're tolerant until you make the

1602
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: wrong step and then they're gonna tap dance on you. Yeah,

1603
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 1: then they'll they'll they'll occasionally kill people. So I mean, um,

1604
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: I think you know steamboats an example. You know, we

1605
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 1: had some problems in Veil last winter. The winter before that,

1606
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:53,560
Speaker 1: the moose were actually licking the cars to get the

1607
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 1: mag chloride off it um and and that was causing

1608
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 1: problems to it was right by the hospital to have

1609
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:00,839
Speaker 1: people trying to get in and out of the hospital

1610
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 1: with moose standing by their car looking the side of

1611
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 1: their car. So it's one of those that sometimes you're

1612
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:10,680
Speaker 1: going to hit a political carrying capacity that, hey, we

1613
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 1: need to reduce moose in this area because of these problems.

1614
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 1: You hit the social limit. Right as are you guys

1615
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 1: having white tail encroachment? Um, we're definitely seeing white tail

1616
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: along the Colorado River. We've had a few along the

1617
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 1: Eagle River. Um, like in place they've never been seen,

1618
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: we've never been seen before. Do you have Is there

1619
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:36,719
Speaker 1: a policy here to because this is world famous mule

1620
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 1: deer country and and it's like that's kind of culturally

1621
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,719
Speaker 1: what people are accustomed to seeing, and it's a celebrated animal.

1622
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 1: And we know that white tails don't do a lot

1623
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 1: of good for mule deer, and you have moose and

1624
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:53,559
Speaker 1: white tails aren't great for moose. Is there is there sentiment,

1625
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: like public sentiment or pressure coming from hunters that let's

1626
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 1: do what we can to not allow the white tail

1627
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 1: intrusion into these areas. Yeah, you get it both ways.

1628
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 1: You get those saying let's get rid of the white

1629
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 1: tails and others saying, hey, i'd really like to shoot

1630
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:10,840
Speaker 1: a white tail. Who's got the who's got the louder voice? Well,

1631
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 1: right now he's getting rid of the white tails. I mean,

1632
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 1: there are certain areas in the state that they've done

1633
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 1: unlimited tags, oftentimes on private land. You know. The big

1634
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: problem is, I mean, if you know a white tail

1635
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 1: from a mule deer, and you've seen enough of them,

1636
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:28,360
Speaker 1: it's easy to tell the difference. Some people haven't seen

1637
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 1: enough of them, and we worry about somebody shooting the

1638
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 1: wrong one if if they aren't familiar with it. But

1639
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:39,320
Speaker 1: there's been discussions going on. Um we have a few

1640
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:42,479
Speaker 1: people with private land here that they're like, hey, I

1641
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,639
Speaker 1: really like seeing the white tails. They're neat. I don't

1642
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:46,639
Speaker 1: want to get rid of them. And we have other

1643
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 1: people that say can I shoot When you say, like,

1644
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:52,720
Speaker 1: as far as the confusion you're talking about, if you

1645
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: were to issue white tail only tags for this area,

1646
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:58,120
Speaker 1: you'd be worried that people would shoot mule deer. But

1647
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:01,679
Speaker 1: as it stands now, I'm just buying a deer tag

1648
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 1: for this area. So if I saw a white tail,

1649
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: I'm good to shoot it. That it's an interesting point

1650
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: about not being able to see him, because there's like

1651
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 1: I grew up all around white tails and hunting white tails,

1652
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:17,719
Speaker 1: and when I first moved out west, when I saw

1653
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 1: a deer for a couple of years. I would have

1654
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: to sort of like look at it, you know, consciously,

1655
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 1: like look at to figure out what I was looking at.

1656
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 1: As familiar as I was with one, the sort of

1657
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 1: search patterns or the clues I saw in the animal

1658
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 1: were more like when you see a deer, it's just

1659
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:40,000
Speaker 1: a deer, because it's not an option. In Michigan, they're

1660
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 1: all white tails. And it actually took me a little

1661
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: while like looking at both to get to where you

1662
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: just like instantly and instinctively no one from the other. Um.

1663
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't come automatically like you can have deep familiarity,

1664
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 1: like just like I think you can have like deep familiarity.

1665
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 1: We're looking at black bears all the time and and

1666
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 1: probably very quickly confused a grizzly for a black bear.

1667
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:03,479
Speaker 1: You need to have a lot of experience of looking

1668
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:08,519
Speaker 1: at both because if not, when you see it, an

1669
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 1: idea jumps in your mind, but you're not like separating

1670
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 1: the two of them out right, so you can see

1671
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 1: that like white tail, like guys who just hunted white

1672
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 1: tails all the time could make a snap decision and

1673
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:21,480
Speaker 1: shoot a milder because when they look they just see dear, Yeah, exactly,

1674
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 1: they see dear. They you know, if the antlers are there,

1675
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 1: it's much easier. Moost guys are gonna see that that

1676
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: rack just doesn't look right. But if they're hunting antler less,

1677
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, they aren't thinking, Wow, those ears look small,

1678
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: that head looks small. You know, the whole animal looks small.

1679
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:40,559
Speaker 1: It's like just a yearly and I'll take it. So

1680
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 1: what else man here? You are, bro, do you have

1681
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 1: a of genuine game warden from your home area? I

1682
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 1: don't know. We've covered a lot of ground. Oh you

1683
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:59,160
Speaker 1: know what we didn't touch on his uh he was Bill.

1684
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:01,720
Speaker 1: I think we want to talked to Bill about some

1685
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:08,560
Speaker 1: declining elk numbers mostly Oh yeah, and what the reasoning

1686
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 1: is behind that, because I know, you know, back when

1687
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 1: joannest lived in this area and and we're you know,

1688
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 1: we were both doing a lot of elk hunting around here,

1689
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 1: it was very easy to pick up an extra cow tag.

1690
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: I mean, to the point where some were going unsold

1691
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 1: an hour, to the point where the tags have been

1692
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 1: reduced a bunch. And you guys have some concerns about

1693
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:35,759
Speaker 1: certain elk herds. Yeah, Colorado has what I mean vastly

1694
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:38,560
Speaker 1: more elk than in any other state. What is the

1695
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,120
Speaker 1: latest hundred grand more than the next state? I think

1696
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: what then Montana? Is it still hovering in that too,

1697
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: it's almost three hundred. Well, I think it's more like two,

1698
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 1: is it, is it? Yeah, we've came down from wine.

1699
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 1: We used to be around two fifty. We've reduced it

1700
01:30:56,240 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 1: since then. But you've been actively reducing the numbers by

1701
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:03,960
Speaker 1: issuing more cow tax right in a lot of the units,

1702
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: we were trying to trying to reduce the herd numbers

1703
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 1: because of conflicts. But now you've got some concerns about

1704
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 1: certain Yeah, we've got some big concerns in certain areas.

1705
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 1: This is one of the areas from what we call

1706
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 1: E sixteen, which is the unit's forty four forty four

1707
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:25,599
Speaker 1: and I think it's forty seven on the Aspen side

1708
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:29,479
Speaker 1: that we've just seen it a significant decline since two

1709
01:31:29,479 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: thousand two, and that occurred, I mean almost fift decline.

1710
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 1: What's going on there? Grizz grizz and white tails. Yeah. Uh,

1711
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, it would be wonderful if you could say

1712
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:47,280
Speaker 1: there was just one thing, um, But as with most

1713
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 1: things of the wildlife, there's never just one silver bullet

1714
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:53,559
Speaker 1: that this is what's causing it. But certainly if the

1715
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:57,200
Speaker 1: big part we feel we're seeing is the human encroachment

1716
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:00,960
Speaker 1: development ski areas. Uh. You know, it used to be

1717
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 1: known for its winter recreation in this area. Now it's

1718
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 1: known for the summer recreation, the loss of habitat, also

1719
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:10,640
Speaker 1: habitat fragmentation a habitat. I mean, the same thing we

1720
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 1: talked about was shed hunters. Um. Any of you guys

1721
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 1: that have had kids, you know, if your kids are

1722
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 1: fussy and you're the only parent in the house and

1723
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:21,320
Speaker 1: you sit down and try to have dinner, you don't

1724
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:22,960
Speaker 1: get a whole lot of dinner because you're up dealing

1725
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:25,280
Speaker 1: with the kids. So it's it's no different for deer

1726
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 1: elk that they're trying to fill their belly in the

1727
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 1: summer and a group of recreationists come through and disturb them.

1728
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 1: Twenty minutes later there's another group. So instead of feeding

1729
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:37,559
Speaker 1: above the alpine maybe for three or four hours in

1730
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 1: the morning to get an hour worth, and then they

1731
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 1: have to go back lay down in the trees, and

1732
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 1: then they come out and try and do it at night.

1733
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 1: This whole other form of recreation, of recreating at night. Um.

1734
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:52,920
Speaker 1: We used to have a rafting at night with night

1735
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:56,080
Speaker 1: vision goggles. That was a big thing. And then now

1736
01:32:56,120 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 1: you have mountain bike races and twenty four hour running races,

1737
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,320
Speaker 1: so you have people out at night training for those.

1738
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:05,000
Speaker 1: And it's just getting to the point where the animals

1739
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:09,919
Speaker 1: don't have a time to be alone. Solitude is important

1740
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:12,920
Speaker 1: to them, The chance to feed it every possibility is

1741
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:16,440
Speaker 1: important to them. Not having to move and burn energy.

1742
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:19,720
Speaker 1: And then you add upon that there hasn't been much

1743
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:24,519
Speaker 1: habitat improvement done. We haven't had any big fires. Uh yeah,

1744
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 1: predators in the mix. Um, you know if you're we

1745
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 1: know from our study we did in the nineties in

1746
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 1: the Upper Eaco Valley that if humans go in during

1747
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 1: the calving season in the cabin areas we can, we

1748
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 1: can drop the cow caffe ratio down by almost half too.

1749
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:41,280
Speaker 1: But going back to the bear lion thing we're talking

1750
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 1: about earlier, that's that's the increasing number of bears and

1751
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 1: lions that's having an effect too. I mean, we know

1752
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:51,240
Speaker 1: that bears and lions are very effective predators on calves

1753
01:33:51,240 --> 01:33:55,559
Speaker 1: and fonts um. And we've had more in enough radio

1754
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:59,800
Speaker 1: collared adult cows killed by lions in the winter to know,

1755
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 1: pretty effective on them in the winter, and you get

1756
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:05,679
Speaker 1: to that point where you get your population low enough,

1757
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 1: normally it's considered that, you know, predators aren't a huge

1758
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: issue if you have a healthy population there. It's what

1759
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 1: we call a compensatory mortality. In other words, they're gonna

1760
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:22,320
Speaker 1: kill fifty elk, but probably forty those elk were gonna

1761
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:24,800
Speaker 1: die anyways. They were gonna something else might have killed them.

1762
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:26,880
Speaker 1: They might have had a wounding loss, they break a leg,

1763
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 1: they starve, but when you get to a certain level,

1764
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 1: you kind of reach that straw that breaks the camel's

1765
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:34,680
Speaker 1: back and every animal you lose, it doesn't matter how

1766
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 1: you lose. It is an additive effect. There's no longer

1767
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 1: enough animals to say it's compensatory. So what we've done

1768
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:46,639
Speaker 1: in this unit, um we've cut the licenses up till

1769
01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 1: last year down by um this year we took the

1770
01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:54,799
Speaker 1: cow licenses down to ten cow licenses in every season.

1771
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:57,439
Speaker 1: So there's gonna be a lot of people that were

1772
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 1: used to get in cow tags and ten a season,

1773
01:35:01,240 --> 01:35:05,920
Speaker 1: tennis season and per g mu per g m u y. Yeah,

1774
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:09,080
Speaker 1: So like you know, first season for elk, you can

1775
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:12,200
Speaker 1: hunt the whole data analysis unit. So you buy one

1776
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:14,640
Speaker 1: license and it's good for all those units. In the

1777
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:16,960
Speaker 1: second season, when you buy a license for forty five,

1778
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 1: it's only good for forty five. So there's ten cow

1779
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 1: tags in forty five in the second season. Third season

1780
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:25,840
Speaker 1: there's ten, in the fourth season there's ten. So I

1781
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 1: mean that's a it's a huge cut in the number

1782
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 1: of licenses. Um, we're looking to run it up the

1783
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:34,280
Speaker 1: chain of command and through the commission to look at

1784
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:37,439
Speaker 1: maybe limiting bowl licenses, maybe doing what they did in

1785
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:41,040
Speaker 1: the flat tops, limiting archery licenses. It might go to

1786
01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 1: a totally limited ELK unit to reduce all of that pressure.

1787
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:47,600
Speaker 1: In addition to that, out propose that only hunters are

1788
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:55,000
Speaker 1: allowed to ever go into the woods. Okay, sure, those

1789
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:58,639
Speaker 1: are some big changes. Those are huge changes, and we're

1790
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 1: seeing it. Uh. We just met with our research group

1791
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. Um, they're looking at drumming

1792
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:08,840
Speaker 1: up some funding to try to get some callers put

1793
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:14,560
Speaker 1: on cows, and we'll also put a vaginally inserted transmitters

1794
01:36:14,600 --> 01:36:16,880
Speaker 1: so when they calve, that transmitter will come out. It'll

1795
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: send a signal there calving and then We'll go in

1796
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:21,880
Speaker 1: and capture the calf and put a collar on that

1797
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 1: calf and determine what happens to that calf. Does it

1798
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:27,719
Speaker 1: die because of a predator? UM? Does it just die

1799
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:30,240
Speaker 1: because it was in bad shape, doesn't make it through,

1800
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:32,960
Speaker 1: doesn't make it through the first two months and then die?

1801
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:35,720
Speaker 1: You know? Does it make it till winter and then die?

1802
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:38,120
Speaker 1: I figure out when when are we losing these calves?

1803
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:40,360
Speaker 1: How when you doing stuff like that? How many collars

1804
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:42,160
Speaker 1: you or how many tags or collars do you have

1805
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:43,720
Speaker 1: to have out in order for it to begin to

1806
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 1: be helpful? Well, I mean that's way outside of my knowledge.

1807
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:51,559
Speaker 1: But the number they're talking about is like sixty. So

1808
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:53,360
Speaker 1: at that point you you can start get a good picture.

1809
01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 1: You start to get a picture. I mean, then you

1810
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,280
Speaker 1: rely on on the computers that you put all the

1811
01:36:57,320 --> 01:37:00,719
Speaker 1: information in the computer with some parameters and it spits

1812
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:05,000
Speaker 1: out what it what it should be seeing. Is this UM?

1813
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:10,640
Speaker 1: Is that trend statewide or is it regions? Like is

1814
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 1: there areas in Colorado where the elk are just kicking

1815
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 1: ass or in Meeker they're doing good? And and it's

1816
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 1: funny you asked that because UM just across the road

1817
01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:22,320
Speaker 1: in what we call E twelve, which is thirty five,

1818
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 1: thirty six and three six I seventies. The only thing

1819
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:31,240
Speaker 1: that separates them not a uh, not a blockage from

1820
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:34,640
Speaker 1: predators to move, not a blockage for wintertime or summertime,

1821
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 1: and that Elkred was pretty well maintaining itself. Um. This

1822
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 1: year was a was a strange year with the snowfall

1823
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:45,920
Speaker 1: and we had some issues getting a helicopter permit. Um,

1824
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:49,439
Speaker 1: but we were running in the high thirties low forties

1825
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:52,160
Speaker 1: for a winter cow caffe ratio UM this year. On

1826
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:54,920
Speaker 1: the other side, all of a sudden, it went to

1827
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:58,200
Speaker 1: explain that from a how many cas per hundred cows,

1828
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 1: so you would know, really want to see in the

1829
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 1: winter above forty calves per hundred cows to have a

1830
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 1: healthy population. And on the north side of I seventy

1831
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 1: we were maintaining that pretty easy at what number att

1832
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:16,360
Speaker 1: So that's basically like almost year olds. They're nine months

1833
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:18,400
Speaker 1: old or what everyone you're telling them they were counting

1834
01:38:18,439 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 1: in December and January. Um, they made it through the season.

1835
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:24,680
Speaker 1: By they made it through the hunting season. You know,

1836
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:26,640
Speaker 1: December is still a lot of winter to go and

1837
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:29,599
Speaker 1: spring to go. So you can always lose some. But

1838
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:33,240
Speaker 1: we we do in certain areas more on deer than elk.

1839
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 1: But in certain areas we have deer herds that they

1840
01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 1: have enough collars on them they can tell us that

1841
01:38:38,120 --> 01:38:42,400
Speaker 1: the fawn mortality in this area was and the dough

1842
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:46,120
Speaker 1: mortality was five or The nice thing about the south

1843
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:48,519
Speaker 1: side of Ice seventy is is we had over three

1844
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:52,599
Speaker 1: hundred mark animals from starting in about four untill about

1845
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 1: two thousand, so we knew a lot about those elk.

1846
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:58,320
Speaker 1: We knew what their survival was. We were we were

1847
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:01,679
Speaker 1: watching elk that had teeth left in their head produced

1848
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:04,559
Speaker 1: calves year after year, and then in a really bad

1849
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 1: winter the cows would succumb to that bad winner. But

1850
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:09,960
Speaker 1: we were getting cows we thought were twenty years plus

1851
01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:15,519
Speaker 1: being reproductively successful. So we had all that information to

1852
01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:18,080
Speaker 1: see that heard all of a sudden plummet like it

1853
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 1: has and on the other side of the highway it

1854
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:22,680
Speaker 1: was staying pretty stable. Now, like I said, this year

1855
01:39:22,760 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 1: was it was a different year in our counts. We

1856
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:26,839
Speaker 1: didn't get to count on the south side of Ice seventy.

1857
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 1: We only did the north side. There was very little

1858
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:32,400
Speaker 1: slow snow. It makes the animals harder to find. But

1859
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:35,640
Speaker 1: we went from a forty casper hundred cows down to

1860
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 1: so something's happened in that unit that bang all of

1861
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 1: a sudden. We've seen it. We've watched on the south

1862
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:44,799
Speaker 1: side of Ice seventy. That's just kind of steady declined.

1863
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Even though we keep reducing the licenses every year. The

1864
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:50,240
Speaker 1: herd keeps going down now to see it on the

1865
01:39:50,240 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 1: other side, it's like, Okay, something's going on. They're seeing

1866
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 1: it in Montrose, they're seeing it. I think down in

1867
01:39:56,000 --> 01:40:00,559
Speaker 1: the San Louis Valley um Steamboat, I think saying they're

1868
01:40:00,560 --> 01:40:03,599
Speaker 1: starting to see kind of the same thing. Meeker they

1869
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:06,360
Speaker 1: occurred is doing great and and I mean the only

1870
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:10,360
Speaker 1: reason an elk herd is going to decline like that

1871
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:14,479
Speaker 1: as a calf recruitment issue, right right, Well, I mean

1872
01:40:14,479 --> 01:40:16,519
Speaker 1: it could decline like that in in a severe winner.

1873
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:19,240
Speaker 1: You can lose adults too, But yeah, if you're it's

1874
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 1: just like everything else. If you don't have any younger

1875
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:24,840
Speaker 1: the year coming up, you're in trouble. And we did

1876
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:27,160
Speaker 1: a Yeah, part of the reason we did the study

1877
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 1: we did in the Upper Eagle Valley is those elk

1878
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,680
Speaker 1: were totally available to you in the summer. They were

1879
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:36,320
Speaker 1: all above the alpine. You could put people out with

1880
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:39,719
Speaker 1: a spotting scope and in one or two people could

1881
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:42,519
Speaker 1: watch a group at two to three elk and see

1882
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:45,200
Speaker 1: how many calves were nursing on the cows. I mean,

1883
01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:48,000
Speaker 1: we had radio colored cows and we would have to

1884
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:50,640
Speaker 1: watch that cow for over three minutes to see if

1885
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:53,040
Speaker 1: a calf nurse. Lots of times in the first ten

1886
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 1: minutes you get there, you'd see a calf nurse, so

1887
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:58,320
Speaker 1: you know that's a successful cow. Sometimes on the ones

1888
01:40:58,360 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 1: that were barn you had to watch in the full

1889
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:02,599
Speaker 1: three say, after three minutes, we never saw that cow

1890
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:06,559
Speaker 1: nurse a calf, so we you know, we would go up.

1891
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:10,000
Speaker 1: We did it. We did their search there because one

1892
01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:11,840
Speaker 1: we we had the skier is to be able to

1893
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:15,000
Speaker 1: kind of keep people out. It allowed us to keep

1894
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:17,600
Speaker 1: one area that there was no interaction with people. In

1895
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,120
Speaker 1: the other area we brought people in to go due

1896
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 1: to disturbance. Then they were available to us in the

1897
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:25,559
Speaker 1: summer to watch. So we went out last year because

1898
01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:27,559
Speaker 1: we've been talking for two or three years of doing

1899
01:41:27,560 --> 01:41:31,640
Speaker 1: a recreation impact study. What is the impact of recreation

1900
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 1: on trails to these elk. We wanted to see if

1901
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: we could get the same results they got out of

1902
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:40,599
Speaker 1: the Starkey Research area UM that the Forest Service has.

1903
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:42,519
Speaker 1: So we went up and flew last year in a

1904
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:44,720
Speaker 1: fixed wing and in places where I normally it would

1905
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:47,600
Speaker 1: see two to three elk, we saw none. Um. We

1906
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:50,160
Speaker 1: put in two and a half hours of flying and

1907
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:53,640
Speaker 1: we saw eighteen elk in the alpine. They did the

1908
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:56,280
Speaker 1: next week they did the frying pan and they I

1909
01:41:56,320 --> 01:41:59,800
Speaker 1: think they saw twenty two elk in the alpine. So

1910
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:01,960
Speaker 1: the elk were if they were there at all, they

1911
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:05,080
Speaker 1: were feeding before daylight and by daylight they were gone.

1912
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:08,240
Speaker 1: It was not unusual when we're flying to see people hiking.

1913
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 1: Um they were already at the top of the mountain

1914
01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:13,720
Speaker 1: at seven am in the morning. So so Pete just

1915
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 1: so people know, you were flying over alpine high country

1916
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:22,080
Speaker 1: like tree lists tread so if you weren't seeing how

1917
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:24,519
Speaker 1: they may have been in the timber. It could have

1918
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:27,160
Speaker 1: been down below in the timber. But you know from

1919
01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 1: doing it, since they normally would be out till ten

1920
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:34,560
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. And if there's a snow field

1921
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:36,760
Speaker 1: because the bugs they like to lay on the snowfield

1922
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 1: to stay cool and it keeps the bugs away from them.

1923
01:42:39,160 --> 01:42:41,040
Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't even on the snowfields. It was

1924
01:42:41,080 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 1: just nothing. So summer recreation, you're thinking of loving it

1925
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 1: to death? Man, loving it to death. I mean if

1926
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:49,760
Speaker 1: you if you look at it, if you've lived here

1927
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 1: long enough, or you do that recreation. I mean it's

1928
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 1: seven sixty five days a year. There's recreation in this

1929
01:42:57,160 --> 01:43:00,479
Speaker 1: valley now. And if you look at my trail is

1930
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:02,519
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. Each one of these towns wants

1931
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 1: to become a summer recreation mecca. So do you first

1932
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:10,600
Speaker 1: see any like I mean, do you issue daily permits

1933
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:14,800
Speaker 1: for certain areas for recreational use or like I mean

1934
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:17,599
Speaker 1: what would be the way it just limit you somehow

1935
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:21,280
Speaker 1: is what what would be limit use? But also educate

1936
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:23,920
Speaker 1: the people. Um I mean we did a town of

1937
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 1: Aale ran a nice program, a wildlife forum. This winner

1938
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:31,200
Speaker 1: um I was there, the Forest Service was there, there

1939
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:34,760
Speaker 1: was two private consultants there and we addressed those type

1940
01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:37,720
Speaker 1: of issues. And the Forest Service provided I mean just

1941
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:40,439
Speaker 1: an amazing figure that they had a trail that was

1942
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:43,600
Speaker 1: closed for elk Calvin and mule deer migration closed in

1943
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:45,880
Speaker 1: the spring, and so they went out and put a

1944
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:47,840
Speaker 1: camera on it and in ten days they found two

1945
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 1: hundred people on the trail. So it's like, hey, here's

1946
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:53,760
Speaker 1: a closed trail trying to give these animals this place

1947
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:56,600
Speaker 1: to go. And two hundred people used it. And that

1948
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:58,240
Speaker 1: was just on one section of the trail. There was

1949
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: other sections that could have been on and not use

1950
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:04,080
Speaker 1: that seen that camera. Well, out of that there was

1951
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:08,760
Speaker 1: enough hunters, mountain bikers, and hikers trail runners that said, well,

1952
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:11,280
Speaker 1: what can we do? And so the Forest Service got

1953
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:13,840
Speaker 1: them to be volunteers and they're standing on those trail

1954
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 1: closures on weekends. They put up gates so it's not

1955
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:18,920
Speaker 1: just a sign now it's a gate, but these guys

1956
01:44:18,920 --> 01:44:21,240
Speaker 1: are standing there. Guys and gals are standing there saying

1957
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:23,479
Speaker 1: this trail is closed. If you want a mountain bike,

1958
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:24,920
Speaker 1: you should go here. If you want a hike, you

1959
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:28,439
Speaker 1: ought to go there. So just some more education making

1960
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:33,280
Speaker 1: people understand that you are the impact. Um. They did

1961
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:37,519
Speaker 1: an interesting study on Antelope Island in Utah where they

1962
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:39,719
Speaker 1: went out and they talked to the people that were

1963
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:43,200
Speaker 1: recreating and they said, uh, yeah, you're a you're a

1964
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:46,759
Speaker 1: mountain biker, do you think you have any impact on it? Now?

1965
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 1: But those horseback riders they screw up everything. Asked the

1966
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:54,240
Speaker 1: horseback riders, those hikers to them, they screw it all up,

1967
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:56,599
Speaker 1: pointing the finger at everyone else. Asked the hikers, it's

1968
01:44:56,600 --> 01:44:59,559
Speaker 1: the mountain bike riders. Nobody thought they were the impact.

1969
01:44:59,640 --> 01:45:03,080
Speaker 1: It was always somebody else. And it's I mean, I

1970
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:06,920
Speaker 1: understand that that type of thinking on it, and it's like,

1971
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:09,040
Speaker 1: it's just me and my dog. We just walked up

1972
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:10,960
Speaker 1: the trail at nine o'clock in the morning, went at

1973
01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:13,400
Speaker 1: anybody else there? Well, but you weren't there at ten

1974
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:16,040
Speaker 1: o'clock when three other people did, or at ten thirty

1975
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 1: when four people did. I mean every hour there's somebody

1976
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: on that trail, and that kind of constant irritation and

1977
01:45:22,520 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 1: disturbance is tough on animals. It's interesting to talk about

1978
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:33,160
Speaker 1: all this from black bears and mountain lions having conflicts

1979
01:45:33,160 --> 01:45:38,960
Speaker 1: in town. Two. You know, agricultural practices that might allow

1980
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:44,240
Speaker 1: whitetail deer to thrive in a place they hadn't thrive before. Um,

1981
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:47,320
Speaker 1: this issue of what is like you know, mountain summer

1982
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:54,680
Speaker 1: recreation have on wildlife. Uh, you know, no one can

1983
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:59,280
Speaker 1: fool themselves anymore into thinking that there's anything in the

1984
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 1: lower forty eight that like it's just like isolated, you know,

1985
01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 1: like just at a cursory glance, like of course, like

1986
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:12,200
Speaker 1: humans have impacted everything, but just in these little detailed ways. Uh.

1987
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:15,760
Speaker 1: We are in a position where we just have to

1988
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:21,000
Speaker 1: own up to the fact that we impact virtually all

1989
01:46:21,080 --> 01:46:26,000
Speaker 1: aspects of the wildlife world. Um and need you in

1990
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:28,680
Speaker 1: some ways like measure what that impact is and in

1991
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:31,640
Speaker 1: times take like what are gonna be like unpopular decisions

1992
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:35,240
Speaker 1: around how to control it, like with the shed hunting issue.

1993
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:38,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all it's like people love to be outdoors,

1994
01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:40,720
Speaker 1: they love to be around wildlife, they want to participate

1995
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:43,960
Speaker 1: in in you know, the world of wildlife. But my god,

1996
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:46,760
Speaker 1: does it come at a cost? Man? Well, and you

1997
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:48,640
Speaker 1: can't and you can't tell people hands off because then

1998
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:52,080
Speaker 1: you don't want to encourage apathy. I mean it's almost

1999
01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:54,719
Speaker 1: worse if no one cared. I made the forest service

2000
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:58,520
Speaker 1: in our organization and in all the state game and fish.

2001
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:00,920
Speaker 1: I mean you see it all the time. Get out

2002
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:04,760
Speaker 1: in nature, get your kids outside. They learn much better

2003
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:07,320
Speaker 1: if they're in nature. So we're trying to get the

2004
01:47:07,320 --> 01:47:10,000
Speaker 1: people out, but we have to understand that as we

2005
01:47:10,080 --> 01:47:12,080
Speaker 1: do that, there's an impact, and we have to give

2006
01:47:12,120 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: them the tools on how to deal with those impacts.

2007
01:47:15,000 --> 01:47:17,400
Speaker 1: And a big thing you hear you hear at all

2008
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:20,599
Speaker 1: the time at public meetings that those deer don't care.

2009
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:23,360
Speaker 1: They stay in my yard every day. They don't care

2010
01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:25,200
Speaker 1: if I'm there, they don't care if my dog comes.

2011
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:29,599
Speaker 1: And and we've told people, if the animal changes its behavior,

2012
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:32,479
Speaker 1: you're too close, you've done something wrong. Back up. What

2013
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:35,439
Speaker 1: we haven't told him is that whole physiological part of it.

2014
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:37,880
Speaker 1: That just because the deer is standing there, if you're

2015
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:40,840
Speaker 1: standing there looking at you, he's gone from maybe a

2016
01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:43,519
Speaker 1: green state of alertment to a yellow state. He's ready

2017
01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:47,480
Speaker 1: to flee. He's not eating, so he's not getting calories,

2018
01:47:48,160 --> 01:47:50,879
Speaker 1: and if he has to flee, then that's an impact

2019
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 1: on them. But we we haven't done a good job

2020
01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:57,000
Speaker 1: of saying what those physiological impacts are. The fact of

2021
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:59,880
Speaker 1: a deer and elk standing up from laying down. The

2022
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:04,240
Speaker 1: standing up is increasing calorie output. So if you think

2023
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:06,000
Speaker 1: about it, every time you walk by, and if all

2024
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:08,839
Speaker 1: they do is stand up, you increase their calorie output

2025
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:12,639
Speaker 1: for that period it doesn't take long they get stood

2026
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:14,479
Speaker 1: up ten or twelve times a day that you've really

2027
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:18,639
Speaker 1: put a drain on their calories. And that's that's our fault.

2028
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:21,080
Speaker 1: We haven't done a good job putting that out and

2029
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:23,800
Speaker 1: getting people to understand that. We understand it ourselves. If

2030
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:26,439
Speaker 1: you walk by a guy's house that has a giant

2031
01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:28,960
Speaker 1: Doberman pincher that charges that gate, even though you know

2032
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:31,680
Speaker 1: you can't get through that gate, your heart rate goes up,

2033
01:48:31,960 --> 01:48:33,640
Speaker 1: The hair on the back of your next stands up,

2034
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:37,840
Speaker 1: your respiration goes up, and it's like, you know that

2035
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:40,479
Speaker 1: animal can't get to you, but you went through that

2036
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:48,760
Speaker 1: physiological reflex. Nothing you can do about it. The you know,

2037
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:53,200
Speaker 1: the the the animal in my yard. I feel that

2038
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:56,320
Speaker 1: like that's something that you I spent a lot of

2039
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:58,439
Speaker 1: energy trying a lot of time trying to counter as

2040
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:01,640
Speaker 1: people to have this idea like, well, how could development

2041
01:49:01,720 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 1: be bad for wildlife? Because I have a deer, I

2042
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:07,000
Speaker 1: have a turkey, I have an elk that comes into

2043
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:11,439
Speaker 1: my yard. And it's you need to like when people

2044
01:49:11,479 --> 01:49:13,719
Speaker 1: have that mentality, you really need to try to invite

2045
01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:16,679
Speaker 1: them to view a much bigger picture that the fact

2046
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:19,080
Speaker 1: that there's you know, a deer hanging out in your

2047
01:49:19,160 --> 01:49:22,400
Speaker 1: yard doesn't mean that the answer to more dear it

2048
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:25,439
Speaker 1: would be clearly to build more yards, right right. It's

2049
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:27,840
Speaker 1: kind of like you have to if you're gonna think

2050
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 1: that way or look at that way, you have to

2051
01:49:29,479 --> 01:49:32,320
Speaker 1: go a little bit deeper into some long term trends

2052
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:36,040
Speaker 1: and thinking about what that deer's whole life cycle is

2053
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:39,639
Speaker 1: and how it uses the landscape throughout the year. Um.

2054
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:41,840
Speaker 1: But I think that it almost like does like when

2055
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:44,720
Speaker 1: people get comfortable with that idea, and almost does a

2056
01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:49,920
Speaker 1: disservice to wildlife management, you know, yeah, and like there

2057
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:51,679
Speaker 1: must be tons of them. There's one in my yard,

2058
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:54,200
Speaker 1: and I mean you have to go back and say, well,

2059
01:49:54,240 --> 01:49:57,439
Speaker 1: before your house there was twenty there. Now there's one,

2060
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:00,080
Speaker 1: and the other nineteen couldn't stand to be next to

2061
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:03,000
Speaker 1: your house anymore. So they left or they died. I

2062
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:05,080
Speaker 1: mean that's the question we get all the time when

2063
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: we talk about the reduction and elk numbers. Well where

2064
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:11,559
Speaker 1: did they go? They didn't go anywhere. We don't see

2065
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:14,880
Speaker 1: the herds next door jumping up in population numbers. These

2066
01:50:14,920 --> 01:50:18,799
Speaker 1: animals are dead, they're gone. They didn't There isn't a place.

2067
01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:21,200
Speaker 1: There isn't shankra law over the next ridge for them

2068
01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:24,479
Speaker 1: to live at. I mean every place that has elk,

2069
01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:26,599
Speaker 1: their elker there and they're trying to use it. If

2070
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:28,479
Speaker 1: you move other elk in on them, you just double

2071
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:32,400
Speaker 1: stressed them. And it's the same with you know, yeah,

2072
01:50:32,439 --> 01:50:35,880
Speaker 1: there's deer in my yard. You know, if you go

2073
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:38,000
Speaker 1: and you followed those deer, it's like, well, they probably

2074
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:39,479
Speaker 1: don't live as long as a deer in the wild

2075
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:42,519
Speaker 1: because they get hit by cars. They're more stress, they're

2076
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:46,679
Speaker 1: more susceptible to disease, um, they're probably not eating foods

2077
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:48,639
Speaker 1: that are the best form because somebody is probably feeding

2078
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:52,120
Speaker 1: them Cheetos or something. So you have all of these

2079
01:50:52,120 --> 01:50:54,360
Speaker 1: things that build up. And there was actually some stuff

2080
01:50:54,439 --> 01:50:58,839
Speaker 1: done in Chicago on raccoons of all things, and raccoons

2081
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:03,120
Speaker 1: were becoming obese, they were getting diabetes, their teeth were

2082
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 1: rotting because they were eating so much human food. They

2083
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:10,479
Speaker 1: weren't getting their normal diet, becoming like us. Just like us,

2084
01:51:10,760 --> 01:51:13,360
Speaker 1: they were eating human food. They became a human. If

2085
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:15,160
Speaker 1: they could sit home on the couch with a remote

2086
01:51:15,200 --> 01:51:17,760
Speaker 1: and a bag of cheetos, they were pretty happy. So

2087
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:24,639
Speaker 1: all right, you guys got any anymore? Man, I'm good. Yeah,

2088
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:29,880
Speaker 1: I gotta follow up. Um, I killed the cow this year.

2089
01:51:30,920 --> 01:51:33,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what what the problem was, but clean kill.

2090
01:51:34,560 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 1: She ended up being chewy. I had had a chewy

2091
01:51:36,479 --> 01:51:39,479
Speaker 1: elk in a while, right, But like every single cut

2092
01:51:39,880 --> 01:51:41,920
Speaker 1: is just like even the tenderlan one is just like

2093
01:51:41,960 --> 01:51:45,840
Speaker 1: a little too eldente. Right. So I figured, you kill

2094
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:47,240
Speaker 1: a lot of elk, You've seen a lot of elk,

2095
01:51:47,280 --> 01:51:49,040
Speaker 1: You've eating a lot of elk. You know that there's

2096
01:51:49,080 --> 01:51:51,559
Speaker 1: elk out there, like you said, without teeth in their head.

2097
01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:54,240
Speaker 1: There their twenty plus the old cows. Do you have

2098
01:51:54,280 --> 01:52:00,720
Speaker 1: any thoughts on what sometimes produces chewy elk? Well, yeah,

2099
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:04,679
Speaker 1: I mean they're just thoughts. They're not nothing based in fact,

2100
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:09,920
Speaker 1: but but on thirty some years of experience of I mean,

2101
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:11,760
Speaker 1: the big thing is what happened to that elk the

2102
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 1: hour before you killed it? Did it come from the

2103
01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:17,040
Speaker 1: ridge side on the other side and run all the way?

2104
01:52:17,840 --> 01:52:20,599
Speaker 1: Was it hyped up that it was all excited? Um?

2105
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 1: You see a lot with antelope that you know, people

2106
01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 1: will go out and they shoot an antelope that came.

2107
01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:26,840
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I was standing out there in the

2108
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:29,160
Speaker 1: stage brush. His anilope came busting over the ridge right

2109
01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:32,360
Speaker 1: to me and I shot it. Man, it was terrible. Well,

2110
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:35,120
Speaker 1: maybe that animal been running for thirty minutes, so all

2111
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:37,040
Speaker 1: the andrelin is pumped in his body, it's got all

2112
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:39,680
Speaker 1: the lactic acid, it's got all this stuff going on.

2113
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:42,120
Speaker 1: So so I think that's a big factor in it.

2114
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:45,400
Speaker 1: You don't know. I mean, the elk could look like, hey,

2115
01:52:45,400 --> 01:52:47,679
Speaker 1: there's a good layer of fat on it. It looks healthy.

2116
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:50,280
Speaker 1: The teeth looked good. But that doesn't mean at some

2117
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:52,519
Speaker 1: point in the time that that elk wasn't suffering some

2118
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:57,479
Speaker 1: other stress or some other problems. Um. Interesting, I don't

2119
01:52:57,520 --> 01:52:59,280
Speaker 1: see a lot of ticks on our animals here, but

2120
01:52:59,600 --> 01:53:03,160
Speaker 1: when we're trapping elk every day, it was amazing. When

2121
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:06,280
Speaker 1: we started in eighty four and ended in the mid nineties.

2122
01:53:07,240 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 1: During that ten or twelve year period, we started seeing

2123
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:11,880
Speaker 1: more and more ticks on elk in the winter than

2124
01:53:11,920 --> 01:53:14,000
Speaker 1: we've ever seen before, enough that we were writing it

2125
01:53:14,040 --> 01:53:16,719
Speaker 1: down on our data sheets. This elk is full of ticks.

2126
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:20,200
Speaker 1: So you don't know if if in the summer they

2127
01:53:20,240 --> 01:53:23,360
Speaker 1: were impacted by ticks. Um, you know, just what was

2128
01:53:23,400 --> 01:53:26,280
Speaker 1: going on with them? Something was stressing them. Something's usually

2129
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:28,640
Speaker 1: stressing them out. I mean when you you see it,

2130
01:53:28,720 --> 01:53:31,240
Speaker 1: especially in hogs, that if you get a hog before

2131
01:53:31,240 --> 01:53:35,080
Speaker 1: slaughter that's too hot or it's stressed on that white meat,

2132
01:53:35,120 --> 01:53:37,759
Speaker 1: you'll see red dots through it, and that's a sign

2133
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:40,960
Speaker 1: that that animal was stressed before it was killed, and

2134
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:44,400
Speaker 1: that really affects the quality of the meat. Yeah. I

2135
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:46,120
Speaker 1: feel like the last time I had a chewy animal,

2136
01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:49,920
Speaker 1: it was a it was a mule deer buck and uh,

2137
01:53:49,960 --> 01:53:53,080
Speaker 1: I didn't put didn't The first shot missed completely, it

2138
01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 1: ran I shot. There was some more shooting that went on,

2139
01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,719
Speaker 1: and fifteen minutes later the animal was dead. It didn't

2140
01:53:58,760 --> 01:54:02,840
Speaker 1: die e'sle and um, yeah, it was a tough, tough

2141
01:54:02,920 --> 01:54:04,720
Speaker 1: eat the animal. And I just feel like, yeah, it

2142
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:10,479
Speaker 1: was chemicals, surgeon and livestock slaughter they go through. There's

2143
01:54:10,520 --> 01:54:14,439
Speaker 1: a lot of steps in the process to alleviate stress

2144
01:54:14,479 --> 01:54:18,800
Speaker 1: doing livestock slaughter. For from a meet, I mean, not

2145
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:21,800
Speaker 1: just from a humane perspective, from a meat quality perspective,

2146
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 1: to alleviate stress. So as far as as far as

2147
01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:28,800
Speaker 1: age being a factor, I think it's a factor, man.

2148
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:31,280
Speaker 1: Do Yeah, Well, I mean I think it's a factor,

2149
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:34,240
Speaker 1: but it's not a guaranteed factor that a toothless one's

2150
01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:37,000
Speaker 1: going to be tough. Yeah, I mean, I mean, Nick,

2151
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:39,440
Speaker 1: We've all shot an animal that was we thought was

2152
01:54:39,480 --> 01:54:41,760
Speaker 1: a year lane, two year old maybe, and it's like

2153
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:46,200
Speaker 1: it just didn't taste as good. Um. I mean, I've

2154
01:54:46,200 --> 01:54:48,280
Speaker 1: shot some big horn sheep that were eight and ten

2155
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:51,160
Speaker 1: years old. It tasted great. We're drawn more than one

2156
01:54:51,160 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 1: big horn sheet tag grown too? Is because you work

2157
01:54:53,720 --> 01:55:00,400
Speaker 1: for the state. Yeah that's too big horn tags ner lifetime? Yeah? Wow,

2158
01:55:00,480 --> 01:55:02,680
Speaker 1: Well one was in any sheep. One was a ram tag.

2159
01:55:03,040 --> 01:55:05,080
Speaker 1: You gotta understand he's in a position where he's all

2160
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:06,760
Speaker 1: mad because he didn't draw any good tag. I just

2161
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,160
Speaker 1: suffered through a horrible tag draw season. But I didn't

2162
01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:11,560
Speaker 1: draw my moose tag. So I'm right there with you.

2163
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:15,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been isolated out and picked on

2164
01:55:15,160 --> 01:55:20,240
Speaker 1: this year by the permit draw systems. So you cool.

2165
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:24,440
Speaker 1: You shot a tough old cow Neil still eating her?

2166
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:30,520
Speaker 1: Was it old? I didn't even go and have her aged? Well,

2167
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:32,120
Speaker 1: But would the teeth look like, I mean, they look

2168
01:55:32,160 --> 01:55:34,640
Speaker 1: good or they look they gotta have? You got to think,

2169
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:36,280
Speaker 1: you gotta know what you're doing. Really look at those

2170
01:55:36,280 --> 01:55:44,680
Speaker 1: teeth man, Well, but I mean are they all there? Yeah? Um,

2171
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:48,520
Speaker 1: have you She's already had time to freezer age, and

2172
01:55:48,560 --> 01:55:54,760
Speaker 1: that hasn't helped. No, uh, you know, might just be

2173
01:55:54,920 --> 01:55:58,000
Speaker 1: that you're just gonna have to just grind it, grind

2174
01:55:58,040 --> 01:56:02,320
Speaker 1: it up. Oh no, definitely, and listen like yeah, flavor, yeah,

2175
01:56:02,360 --> 01:56:04,560
Speaker 1: it's it's fine. And when you cook a roast a

2176
01:56:04,640 --> 01:56:07,960
Speaker 1: proper way, it's eating fine. But you're just like, gosh,

2177
01:56:08,040 --> 01:56:12,360
Speaker 1: just a little just got a sharp knife, little thinner man.

2178
01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:17,240
Speaker 1: Yeah uh no, but yeah, we're out of burger, so

2179
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:19,880
Speaker 1: it's like perfect. You know, I'll be taking out a

2180
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:22,240
Speaker 1: bunch of roasts out and just turning into burger because

2181
01:56:22,280 --> 01:56:26,960
Speaker 1: the flavor is good, or cook it and and just

2182
01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:30,560
Speaker 1: slice it thin thin. But you know what I do

2183
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:32,160
Speaker 1: have a little bit of my freezer off that like

2184
01:56:32,200 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 1: I had never experienced, and I you hear stories about it,

2185
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:39,040
Speaker 1: and it's where all this stuff perpetuates from. Are these

2186
01:56:39,120 --> 01:56:43,680
Speaker 1: mule deer right? That the sage game? Well, listen, well

2187
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:46,360
Speaker 1: I heard the whole story. It was like one guy

2188
01:56:46,440 --> 01:56:48,640
Speaker 1: shot it, it it went over the ridge. He decided not

2189
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:51,360
Speaker 1: to even follow up, so that his body went over there.

2190
01:56:51,400 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 1: Feeling bad killed it. The guy didn't brought it to

2191
01:56:54,360 --> 01:56:56,760
Speaker 1: the guy. He didn't want it. It sat out and

2192
01:56:56,800 --> 01:56:59,200
Speaker 1: the sun for a day. Eventually my neighbor ends up

2193
01:56:59,240 --> 01:57:02,000
Speaker 1: with it. He's like, I'll take it, So I helped him.

2194
01:57:02,120 --> 01:57:05,000
Speaker 1: It didn't smell bad or anything when we butchered it. Um.

2195
01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:08,000
Speaker 1: But taking these packages of ground meat out, like when

2196
01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:10,720
Speaker 1: you open the package of ground meat, you just like

2197
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:13,240
Speaker 1: you can smell it right then and there you cook it,

2198
01:57:13,240 --> 01:57:17,600
Speaker 1: it's bad. So like taking care of strass, stressing it,

2199
01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:21,040
Speaker 1: taking care of it like it can definitely happen. I've

2200
01:57:21,040 --> 01:57:22,680
Speaker 1: told a story a hundred times. I don't know if

2201
01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:25,560
Speaker 1: I've told it on this digital radio program, but about

2202
01:57:25,560 --> 01:57:28,320
Speaker 1: my box that fell into a sinkhole. You that one

2203
01:57:28,920 --> 01:57:31,760
Speaker 1: worst buck I ever ate because it was I couldn't

2204
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:38,760
Speaker 1: recover it quickly down on a sinkhole. Well, my Colorado

2205
01:57:38,840 --> 01:57:43,080
Speaker 1: moose is eating great. Oh yeah, rub it in. It

2206
01:57:43,240 --> 01:57:46,240
Speaker 1: was a cow. That's the only the thing I get

2207
01:57:46,280 --> 01:57:47,720
Speaker 1: so sick. I was that big meal to your bucks.

2208
01:57:47,760 --> 01:57:49,720
Speaker 1: Don't taste good when you get that, like a nice

2209
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:51,200
Speaker 1: big meal of your buck. And he's got a bunch

2210
01:57:51,200 --> 01:57:53,680
Speaker 1: of fat on his room. Yeah, listen, my wife who

2211
01:57:53,720 --> 01:57:57,360
Speaker 1: doesn't care at all about dear antlers, doesn't even get it.

2212
01:57:57,480 --> 01:57:59,760
Speaker 1: She can't tell a big one from a little one

2213
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:01,120
Speaker 1: when the sitting right in front of her. She's like,

2214
01:58:01,120 --> 01:58:02,760
Speaker 1: it just looks like the same, like all the other ones.

2215
01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:07,160
Speaker 1: Doesn't care. She likes that meat, the big old mule

2216
01:58:07,240 --> 01:58:09,760
Speaker 1: deer buck meat, only going by the ship, like when

2217
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:12,960
Speaker 1: I make dinner, Okay, when I make dinner, if that's

2218
01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:14,480
Speaker 1: what it is, she's like, that is so good? What

2219
01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:19,600
Speaker 1: is that? Loves it. She wouldn't like the bucks Yanna shoots.

2220
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:22,680
Speaker 1: She doesn't like like white like white tail meat. She

2221
01:58:22,760 --> 01:58:25,960
Speaker 1: feels it's a little too mild, a little too bland,

2222
01:58:26,400 --> 01:58:28,440
Speaker 1: you know, used me. She doesn't really every time I

2223
01:58:28,480 --> 01:58:29,720
Speaker 1: cook moves. I don't even tell her what it is,

2224
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:31,400
Speaker 1: but she'll eat it and she's like, what does that?

2225
01:58:31,480 --> 01:58:32,920
Speaker 1: And I'll be like, moves. She's like, you know, it's

2226
01:58:32,960 --> 01:58:35,760
Speaker 1: just something about it. Yeah. I shot a yearling cow

2227
01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:40,720
Speaker 1: last December, and it was surprising how mild it was. Like,

2228
01:58:40,760 --> 01:58:42,920
Speaker 1: because you get used to eating stuff, you know, you're

2229
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:46,640
Speaker 1: shooting older elk or bucks or whatever, you get used

2230
01:58:46,640 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 1: to that just flavor. And that thing was like vealish,

2231
01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:53,040
Speaker 1: you know it was so and even the meat was

2232
01:58:53,160 --> 01:58:57,560
Speaker 1: lighter than you'd expect to see, and and it was mild.

2233
01:58:57,960 --> 01:59:00,400
Speaker 1: Like I know you've said it before. It's like almost

2234
01:59:00,440 --> 01:59:04,160
Speaker 1: to the point where it's not that it tastes bad,

2235
01:59:04,240 --> 01:59:07,440
Speaker 1: it's just so mild. There's almost nothing that gets to

2236
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:10,840
Speaker 1: the point of being a little blamed. Yeah, pound for pound,

2237
01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:12,440
Speaker 1: I don't I don't like. I wouldn't trade it because

2238
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:15,000
Speaker 1: I like to eat the animals that I shot, or

2239
01:59:15,200 --> 01:59:17,240
Speaker 1: the next best thing is animals with my body shot

2240
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:19,800
Speaker 1: when I was with them, kind of thing. Just yea mentally,

2241
01:59:20,400 --> 01:59:24,240
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't like literally do these trades. But you know,

2242
01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:28,960
Speaker 1: pound for pound, I would swap out, like three or

2243
01:59:28,960 --> 01:59:31,880
Speaker 1: four year old mule dear meat. I would like trade

2244
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:38,920
Speaker 1: out to get that back. I like it. You've got preferences,

2245
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:41,760
Speaker 1: and really that's my wife's favorite, saying that's my favorite.

2246
01:59:42,280 --> 01:59:46,160
Speaker 1: So you like it like you like that flavor as

2247
01:59:46,160 --> 01:59:48,760
Speaker 1: long as you treat it right. Yeah, no, I think

2248
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:52,320
Speaker 1: that we put we put in the freezer. Was it

2249
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:55,360
Speaker 1: a mule? Yeah, mule deer. It's so hard to tell

2250
01:59:55,400 --> 01:59:57,760
Speaker 1: because we come home from you know, working and with

2251
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, we're always digging up meat. But I had

2252
02:00:00,520 --> 02:00:02,440
Speaker 1: to handle open the freezer. And it's by far been

2253
02:00:02,480 --> 02:00:07,080
Speaker 1: a favorite this year for everybody. And I haven't noticed

2254
02:00:07,120 --> 02:00:09,680
Speaker 1: the difference in in bigger bucks and does and that

2255
02:00:09,800 --> 02:00:13,640
Speaker 1: at all. But you know that, I mean within fifteen

2256
02:00:13,640 --> 02:00:15,640
Speaker 1: minutes of hitting the ground, that suckers in a cooler.

2257
02:00:17,080 --> 02:00:19,680
Speaker 1: So did you draw an antelope tag? Yesterday? Did not?

2258
02:00:20,760 --> 02:00:22,760
Speaker 1: So you just gotta find out like everybody else, I

2259
02:00:22,840 --> 02:00:26,200
Speaker 1: gotta fight it, just like everybody else, just like I'm fighting,

2260
02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:28,440
Speaker 1: like on the moose. I've been fighting since there's been

2261
02:00:28,440 --> 02:00:31,480
Speaker 1: a moose season in Colorado for it. And there's some

2262
02:00:31,560 --> 02:00:33,960
Speaker 1: people in the valley that have drawn their bull tag

2263
02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:37,320
Speaker 1: and now their cow tags. So when they're doing the draw,

2264
02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:39,920
Speaker 1: do they call up like your colleagues call up and

2265
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:44,920
Speaker 1: be like, build great news. You just gotta check your email,

2266
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:48,680
Speaker 1: got check your just like a regular old guy that's

2267
02:00:48,760 --> 02:00:53,440
Speaker 1: like that's horrible, man. Yeah, I know there's no there's

2268
02:00:53,440 --> 02:00:56,720
Speaker 1: no benefit one where it all looked pretty bad. It

2269
02:00:56,720 --> 02:01:02,360
Speaker 1: would look pretty bad. Did another conspiracy theory? But I've

2270
02:01:02,360 --> 02:01:06,800
Speaker 1: heard that one plenty. Oh yeah, yeah, alright, anyone else?

2271
02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:10,760
Speaker 1: Any last things, Officer Andre, you have any um final

2272
02:01:10,800 --> 02:01:13,200
Speaker 1: things you didn't get to say? Be safe out there.

2273
02:01:13,400 --> 02:01:18,800
Speaker 1: Be safe out there. Self report, self report. Everybody's gonna

2274
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:20,760
Speaker 1: make a mistake. Just turn you do the right thing,

2275
02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:24,160
Speaker 1: turn yourself in. I think everybody be happy with the

2276
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 1: outcome when you do that. Try to hide it. You

2277
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:29,320
Speaker 1: aren't going to be happy with the outcome. And if

2278
02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:32,000
Speaker 1: you have to say if, if you have to say if,

2279
02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:35,200
Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't do it. All right, thank you very

2280
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:37,120
Speaker 1: much for joining us. All right, thank you