WEBVTT - Jaeger Kovich on Aronimink Golf Club 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:05.320 Welcome back to another edition of the Fridagg Podcast. Today's 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.520 episode is brought to you by our friends over at 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.200 B Dratty. B Dratty just released their Draty Sport line 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:16.479 of performance polos, which are unlike any performance polo you 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:21.520 have ever worn. There are butterysoft, ultra lightweight and look 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:26.520 like cotton. Previously only available at the nation's top golf courses, 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.520 you can now shop the Drattysport at bdratty dot com 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.280 and receive twenty five percent off with our exclusive discount 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:39.000 code TFE twenty five. These are awesome shirts. I love 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:43.199 the Dratty cotton. The Dratty Sport is a great addition 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.360 for those hot, muggy days. We also have some available 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.400 in the Fridagg Shop. Also, if you're looking for a 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:55.000 fried egg, Draty Sport and Navy, go to bdratty dot com. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.920 They've got all the colors, all the styles there and 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.560 get twenty five percent off with our discount code TFE 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:07.080 twenty five. Today's episode is with golf course architect shaper 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.679 extraordinaire yaeger Kovich. Yeager has been on the pod previously 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:15.319 last fall. He was on in November We talked a 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.840 lot about his career. I recommend listening to that if 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.160 you have not listened to it yet. That gets much 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.680 more into his backstory. Some interesting stuff in those podcasts. 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.679 I think there are two of them actually this episode, 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.360 we just I wanted to get them on to talk 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.240 about Ironom INNK, the site of this week's Women's PGA Championship. 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.600 It is a Donald Ross course in Philadelphia. Yeager was 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.759 on the crew from Hans Design, Gil Hanson Jim Wagner 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:48.480 who did a wonderful restoration of Ironom Inc. We have 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:53.000 a video that is premiering on YouTube on Tuesday night 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:55.160 worth checking out. 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:56.920 That goes that should be. 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:02.440 A nice accompaniment to this conversation with some beautiful visuals 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:07.480 from Aronomy, you know drone footage and Gilhan's commentary on that. 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.919 And one other quick note. If you don't yet, be 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.880 sure to sign up for our newsletter. It's free, It's 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.160 three days a week, and it's the easiest way to 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.920 stay up to date with all the happenings in golf, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.760 as well as all of the content that we are 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.400 putting out there with. Will does a wonderful job writing 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.919 the newsletter, and then you stay up to date. 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:30.239 You'll never miss a pod. 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:34.200 From Me or Garrett, or a video or articles from 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.359 Will and you'll know what's you'll be a smarter golf fan. 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:38.720 So sign up for the newsletter. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:39.919 All you have to do is go over to the 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.000 Frida egg dot com and there is a sign up 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.200 form right there, without further ado, here is Jaeger Kovich. 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.480 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset when 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:52.560 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:54.600 And when I find my ball in a Frida egg, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:59.560 Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida, fridagg bride egg, Lie, 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:10.960 I'm about ready to run off with the So you 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:16.880 were you were associate a shaper at Aeronomy during the restoration. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:19.440 Yeah. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:24.760 I was there most every day working for Gil and 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.480 Jim and they were, you know. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:28.760 A big part of it as well. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.120 They were there doing a lot of the shaping and 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.760 dozing and excavating right alongside. And I was just lucky 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:41.040 to be there every day helping out as well and 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:47.200 working with John Goswin, the outstanding superintendent, and you. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.200 Know, keeping an eye on the contractor as well. It 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.040 was great. It was a couple of years ago. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.320 Now what So when you're in that type of role, 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.360 what what are you doing day to day? 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:57.680 What? 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.080 You know, obviously you're you're not, you know, the architect 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.320 in charge, but you're there every day, which you know 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.920 Jim and Gill aren't always there every day, but you 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:07.839 know they're there a lot. 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.960 But yeah, you know, especially with uh, you know gilbilling 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.640 down the street in Alverne, he got to spend quite 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:17.880 a bit of extra time there, which is pretty cool. 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.839 You know, getting the sleep in your own bed is 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.239 is pretty neat. Then get the work at a place 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.440 closed this, I mean that was that was pretty awesome. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.279 So he was, they were, they were around a lot, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.520 but you know, most every day kind of started with 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.240 going into the shop every morning looking at the aerial 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.800 photographs we had for and plans and everything for each 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.360 of the kind of we were working in generally one 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.800 to three whole sort of increments at a time, just 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.359 the way the sort of construction process works. So you know, 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.080 I'd be going in there and double checking and taking 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.159 photos with the cell phone of like exact clusters of 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:01.279 bunkers and grass lines and sort of gathering every little 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.159 bit of information in detail we could about whatever holes 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.000 we were working on at the time, and then most 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.159 of the rest of the day would be spent in 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:14.080 the field in the next veador, bulldozer, or helping with 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.799 checking in on the contractors, setting up the next rounded demo, 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:22.760 shaping bunkers, painting grass lines, you know, kind of everything. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.719 So the cluster, the bunker clusters are going to be 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.440 something that is really easy for people to see at 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:35.479 Aronominka and probably the defining characteristic, I would say the 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.760 golf course. It's probably something that most casual golfers would 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.680 walk away with they like those bunkers. 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.120 Is there bunker city I like to call it. Yes. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.159 Have you seen any any ross course with that type 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.040 of bunker features before? And if you haven't seen any 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.479 ross courses, are there any other Golden Age courses that 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:02.320 you'd compare to the you know, sheer amount and style 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:03.960 of bunkers? 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:04.520 Uh? 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:09.960 Sure, so yeah, there there are other ross courses that 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:15.440 have a very sort of similar style. You know. I think, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.360 you know, one of the interesting things I guess about 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.800 aronom Ink and for some of your audiences that the 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.880 style of bunker that was built and that is seen 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.320 in all the aerial photos is different from what was 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:34.000 originally drawn in the plans and the field sketches right, 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.160 So there is a difference of what was drawn versus 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.000 what was executed in the field, and a lot of 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:48.440 that is generally attributed to Ross's associate JB. McGovern who 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.760 lived in the area and did some other work that 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.000 has a very sort of similar style as well. 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.440 So you can see that at Jeffersonville is. 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.919 A publicly accessible course in Philly not too far away 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:07.960 that has a very similar style. You know, there's little 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:09.880 bits and pieces of it at a lot of different 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.240 Ross courses. You could see there is a you know, 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:17.240 it's funny. I discovered about a year or so ago 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.160 that there was a Ross and McGovern ld renovation in 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.080 Philly at a at another course called Cedar Brook, and 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.480 all of a sudden they got they the course was 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:33.040 transformed formed from big sort of ovular oval shapes into 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:34.640 these crazy puzzle pieces. 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.239 They almost look like sort. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.920 Of teeth sometimes with all the little tails and sort 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:43.600 of moo like shapes, all these little little bits of 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.600 fingers and and a lot of sort of clusters ranging 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.440 from two three five. It seems like, you know, I 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.240 always find you know, what they say with planting trees. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.880 Sometimes odd numbers work best. So there's there's a few 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.280 right there. I think you probably see some of it 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.280 at Oakwin Hills too, you've spent some time up there. 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.680 Those ones are a little bit bigger, they're they're like 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:13.440 almost like flashed face. They're much different than it's it's 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.800 interesting that with Ross, And do you think it's because 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:17.800 of the associates and the fact that he wasn't on 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.680 site as but you know, he worked more like a 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.560 modern architect. Do you think it's that's why we see 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.400 such a variety in styles of bunkers at different Ross courses. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.559 I think so, you know, I think what's happened a 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:34.040 lot too, is we've sort of. 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.240 Fantasized a lot about this this like and talked about 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.880 the like the sort of typical sort of Ross style, 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.000 right but you know, as Gil will tell you there, 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:48.800 there really is no typical Ross style. So that again 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:50.400 sort of goes to the point like you were talking 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.240 about before, is you know why it's so important to 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.080 have the aerial photos so you can put back like 0:08:55.200 --> 0:09:02.319 exactly what was there. But yes, so you know there's 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:06.000 no typical Ross turtleback greens like you see at Pinehurst everywhere, right, 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.320 those are those are pretty close to a one off, 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.840 but they're very very unique. You know, the greens you 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.960 see at Aeronomy and are much more sort of flowing, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.160 sort of potato chip like putting surfaces that you see here. 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.600 You see some similar ones at like Mountain Ridge or 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.000 Worcester Harbor's uh probably Glenn's Falls. I've seen some awesome 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.560 photos of that place, but they don't really look like uh. 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.280 Piner's number two. They're so. 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:43.240 Uh, you know, the typical thing as something that that 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:48.800 really gets sort of there's you know, this sort of 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.720 cookie cutter thing is is not really represent representative of 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:54.839 his full body of work. You know, he worked at 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:59.360 four hundred different places with various associates. His career transformed, right, 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.560 I mean the the stuff up in Boston, like he 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.400 got off a boat and walk or walked miles to 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.680 his you know, his first jobs. I think you know, 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.720 by the time he was he was living most of 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.160 the time that he was down in Pinehurst and traveling 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.040 the entire country. I mean, he was a much different person. 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.640 And you know, styles and evolve, right, We've seen that 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.240 with just every everybody, Right, the more chances he get 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.280 and the more time he spent on site, and then 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.040 he built an entire business. Right was a guy that 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.000 was making clubs and doing golf courses on the side, 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:34.640 and he basically was like, you know, the biggest biggest 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.280 name in golf. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.080 By the time he passed, right, it was the biggest 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:43.120 price right exactly. That's pretty wild. 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.000 So you know, how could they all be exactly sort 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:47.400 of the same. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:48.679 It's just sort of impossible. 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.800 But that's you know, they're all they have some similarities, right, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.560 You always see like excellent routings, The routings are really 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.880 really really he was, you know, I think you know, 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.520 that's probably his best or sort of most underrated skill, 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.880 and that's why so many of his courses turned out 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.400 so good. And then the more time you spend and 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:12.320 the more experts you leave on site to worry about 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.200 the details, the better and the better and the better 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:15.040 they get from there. 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.760 Yeah, that the routing and aronomics stood out to me. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.760 I thought that it was pretty brilliant because I don't 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:26.439 think you know, Philly's got these really intense sites that 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.240 have these you know, it's almost like very muscular sites 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.120 like where they have these landforms that just like kind 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.640 of you know, move in and out and they're just 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.320 you know, they're like almost not jagged there. I wouldn't 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:43.040 say they're severe, but they're on the places. Yeah, they're 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:44.000 on places. 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.560 They're like mix of sort of like this kind of 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.040 farmy feel, and then a lot of them have these 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.880 like super deep creeks that have kind of formed in 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.240 the area, and they kind of all have some of 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.040 more heavy soils. And then there's a handful of with 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.960 these like crazy quarries, and you know, not too far 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.520 are from where a lot of these golf courses is 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.720 Valley Forge, right, and that's where like half the golf 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:11.760 courses in the the East Coast are buying sand from 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.480 these these hits not too far away. So you know, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.160 there's a lot of different things going on, and some 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.520 are a little bit more so in farm length than others. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.439 Others can be a little sort of tighter and more 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.280 neighborhood ye and have more you know, these sort of 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.880 waterways and stuff like that. But it's cool. 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.280 Yeah, I felt like Irono Minks was more on the 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.680 subtle side in terms of compared to most in Philly, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:43.600 But I thought he really it's a big property, but 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:49.640 it's so it's so the golf feels so inpact. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.640 Yeah, yeah, all right, it's huge. 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.680 It's huge enough where you can have all the infrastructure 0:12:55.720 --> 0:13:00.560 needed for a gigantic tournament and it you know, it's 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.719 not it fills the space nicely, right, there's not you know, 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.240 there's there's a decent amount of maintained rough out there, 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.720 but there's a good amount of trees. It's not entirely trueless. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.839 There's you know, some pretty steep hills. There's there's a 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:21.200 lot going on. It's not cramped, but it's not just 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.000 fast acres in between the holes either. You know, it's interesting. 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:31.240 So there was originally planned to be an extra nine holes. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.240 I don't know if it was a you know, clearly 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.440 it turned out to be a full eighteen hole course, 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.079 but you know, would it have been a twenty seven 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:44.040 seamless It was numbered like when A it had letters 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.240 associated to the other nine, so maybe sort of a 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:49.960 sort of a secondary routing. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:51.640 But so it's it's huge. 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.960 You know, you could probably recover about five or six 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:55.640 of those holes off in the woods if you if 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:56.600 you wanted to someday. 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.520 Are did those holes ever get built? 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:02.400 No? 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:08.000 There was one hole that mostly at least got completed. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:09.880 I don't I've never seen a photo of it with 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.400 grass on it, but I think it would have been 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.559 the ninth hole in that course, which runs right next 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.880 to eighteen on the current golf course, and through the 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:25.200 short game area there was at least shaped at one point, 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:26.880 maybe a practice hole or something. 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.360 With you spending so much time on site, what was 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.680 I always think, you know, you pick up more and 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.360 more stuff, and what was like one little thing that 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.040 just wowed you that you might have recognized a few 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:41.280 months into the project. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.320 Well, you know, I think it probably wasn't even a 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.760 few months. It was probably within the first two or 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.480 three holes. I think one of the really cool moments 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.360 was working with Jim Wagner out there, and he was 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.360 really really good at sort of teaching me different ways 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.120 to sort of Vic's. You know, we're rebuilding all of 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.840 the bunkers and restoring them to all the same locations 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.240 that they were originally in and doing a super accurate 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.359 job with that. But you know, I think what makes 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.480 you know, we set some restoration work apart from the 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:23.600 others is sort of helping things, you know, feel really old, even. 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.240 Though everything. 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.360 Is new, and so he was really good about helping 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:34.160 me find little details in the shaping about, you know, 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.320 doing things like, you know, we just spent all this time. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.680 Say you're on a green side bunker removing all years 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.400 and years and years of sand splash. But some of 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.640 the sand splash is what kind of makes you know, 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.120 extra sort of waves and contours and bulges and some 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.520 of the bunkers. So you know, it's kind of it 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.880 makes it look like it's been used, and so you know, 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.400 you can take all the sort of new materials and 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.760 pack it in nice and sort of help it sort 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.840 of get back to that same shape, and then do 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:09.080 other things like you know, maybe you know, you just 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:10.880 sort of tell yourself a little bit of a story 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.440 in your mind as you're working. You know, maybe you 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.960 know people have been walking in through these one or 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.160 two little places in the bunkers where you know, it 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.640 kind of seems to make sense wherever you are, and 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.760 then doing things to sort of exaggerate how you know, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.400 maybe people beat this one or two little channels down 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.800 into sort of the shaping, and you know, little other 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.680 things like like if everybody's hitting out of the same 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.120 one or two places maybe those get a little bit 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.120 higher over time or something like that, and you just 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.680 try to add that last little kind of five or 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:45.280 ten percent in the detailing. And that's I think what 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.440 sort of takes it from some of that sort of 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.320 even that sort of typical kind of feeling like we 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:56.200 talked before, to something that's really really really feels all 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:58.840 kind of as soon as as soon as you can 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.080 given that, you know, you're putting brand new sand, brand 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.400 new sad, doing all sorts of different riders and things 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.640 like that into it. So it's you know, a very 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.240 sort of straight process. You're going from A to B 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.159 in exactly what the photos show you. But if you 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:20.240 can do some of these other little tricks to help 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.480 it age and be really really efficient, you know, those 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.000 are the types of things you learn working from working 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.879 with Jim especially, he's the best at that. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.159 I like restorations that try and make it look old 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:35.920 like I mean, one of the I thought the cool 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.000 things about the wing foot restoration was that they use 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.120 the same grass on the greens, like you didn't get 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.240 brand new grass on the greens. Like it gives it 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.320 a little bit of you know, it's you're restoring it 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.200 and trying to restore it back to nineteen twenty eight 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.440 and an Irono mans case. So you should want it 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.600 to come out of it, out of the restoration and 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.159 look at you know, there are things you can't avoid, 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.080 like obviously like you the same, but. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.199 Sure, but you know, but even with the sand, if 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.359 you look at the little sort of mounds with sandy 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:07.960 pits that are on the side. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.880 Of ten, yeah, is different thing. 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.760 So John Goslin was really good. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.520 You know, that's not exactly the same bunker stand that's 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.080 in the rest of the bunkers. You know, he really 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.640 spent you know, we we tried to do some things 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:23.359 over there that would really make it, you know, a 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.320 little bit dirtier, a little bit uh more scruffy. It 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.600 doesn't have all the liners or the drainage or stuff 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:34.000 like that. It's it's a little bit different. And uh yeah, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.239 he loves it exactly and he's he's been working on 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.880 the finding the right balance over there for for years. 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.560 He's you know, he's sort of very very sort. 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.040 Of old school with that, and he the tees also 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.760 are something that I think will kind of help it 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.000 feel old, right, You're not going to feel like you're 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.359 playing on you know, five different sets of these perfectly 0:18:55.440 --> 0:19:00.200 squared edge tees, all going highest at the back down 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.119 to you know the member tees and forward and you 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:07.600 know such and such. They're these super cool, uh free 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.560 form teas. Then that's really as you can see in 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.600 the areas, it looks like there's a second set of greens. 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.280 There, and that's that's. Uh, those are the t's which 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:17.920 are pretty wild. 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.000 So you know, hopefully I don't know if they're going 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.679 to let your your blimp or you're drone up there 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.920 for some some aerial views this week, but if you'll 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.960 be wondering what those extra extra teas are or extra greens. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.880 But the freeform t's are like an in vogue thing 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:41.080 in architecture now. But even in twenty eight that wasn't 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.200 a widely used feature, right, I. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.959 Think, uh, you know, you didn't really see them. You know, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.159 most people draw them as rectangles even back then. But 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.240 I think every once in a while, uh, it certainly happened, 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.719 you know, certainly you see more of the like connected 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.359 stuff from my greens into teas where it just was 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:04.600 a little bit easier. 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:05.320 To turn stuff back then. 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.160 But you know, there's there's a few in the area too. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.479 You know, Marian was pretty famous for for some of 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:16.280 that as well, so you know maybe uh that inspired 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.080 a little bit over aeronomy back then too. 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:19.639 Who knows what? 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:25.040 Uh you worked grounds during the BMW a couple of 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:26.920 years ago, didn't you help out? 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.960 I did a ridgewood the two weeks prior, actually, Uh. 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.040 I spent I spent some time with John and the 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:34.640 guys over there. 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.840 I mostly just bringing them beer for for making all 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.560 the work look good. Uh. You know those those guys 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.800 are you know you don't want me mowing. I'm much 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.840 better with the big yellow stuff. I uh, you know 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:49.000 you don't want me trying to. 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:50.919 I'll just mess the stuff up. 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:52.920 The smaller the machine, the worse you got. 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.000 I mean, I can rate breaking would be good? 0:20:58.400 --> 0:20:58.880 What uh? 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.840 In terms of that that championship, obviously you spent a 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:07.719 lot of time there, the conditions weren't ideal. What what 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.800 would you be looking for? The weather looks great this 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.760 week with the with the women. What are you particularly 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:18.520 keen to watch with the women's game? At aeronomy, the. 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.760 Biggest thing is going to be the lower trajectory shots 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.920 that are bouncing into what should be pretty firm greens here. 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:30.439 We've had pretty good weather, you know, basically through the 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.200 US Open at at Wingfoot, so it you know, we've 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.240 got a couple of little days of rain here or there, 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.600 but nothing super terrible at least since that that big 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.960 tropical storm went through a couples ago that did a 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.120 lot of damage in the area. But I think it's 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.640 going to be the ladies that play the lower shots 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.720 and watching, you know, how they react on the really 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.120 cool sort of potato chip like greens, and how they 0:21:56.119 --> 0:22:00.480 can use some of the slopes to feedballs closer. You know, 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:02.640 if they put the pin on the back right of 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.800 three or twelve, you can hit it if you know, 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.520 use the central sort of spines on these things and 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:12.480 feed them to the corners. You know, that's something we 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.040 definitely didn't see when the guys were hitting it. You know, 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.520 three ten carries plugging, cleaning the ball and just hitting 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.440 pitching wedge, you know, to write at it. So hopefully, 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.199