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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and

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Speaker 1: Matt and today we're talking about the Power of Habit

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Speaker 1: with Charles do Higg. Charles Duhigg is a Pultzer Prize

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Speaker 1: winning journalist who writes for The New Yorker, in New

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Speaker 1: York Times Magazine, and other publications. He is also the

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Speaker 1: author of bestsellers The Power of Habit and Smarter, Faster, Better,

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Speaker 1: and he's the host of Slate's podcast how To. As

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Speaker 1: a business experts self help expert, Charles explores habit formation

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Speaker 1: and the science of productivity in order to help folks

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Speaker 1: on a day to day basis. We are excited to

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Speaker 1: have him join us to talk about how we can

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Speaker 1: implement better habits and particularly when it comes to our

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Speaker 1: personal finances and how we can lead a more productive So, Charles,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today on the podcast. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me h Charles, We're we're glad to have you.

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Speaker 1: End every episode of this podcast, Matt and now we

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Speaker 1: talk about money, but at the same time, we drink

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Speaker 1: a craft beer. And that's because we are fans of

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Speaker 1: people prioritizing something that matters in their financial life. Uh,

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Speaker 1: in the here and now. While they're also saving and

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Speaker 1: investing well for the future, so I want to know.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of our splurge. What is your splurge? What's

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Speaker 1: your craft beer equivalent? My craft beer equivalent? Um, I

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Speaker 1: mean I I buy a lot of like gadgets I

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Speaker 1: find like I I love to to to check out

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Speaker 1: the latest gadgets and and uh and play with them.

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Speaker 1: So that's probably my splurge. What was the last gadget

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Speaker 1: you bought? Then that's a good question. Um, well, I

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Speaker 1: just bought an e bike, so yeah, you work in

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Speaker 1: our language. It has not arrived yet, but when it does,

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to check it out. Did you happen to

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Speaker 1: purchase the new Radwagon. No I didn't. I actually did

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Speaker 1: buy from rad though. I bought the the not the

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Speaker 1: rad Runner. They got like a city one or something

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Speaker 1: like that. Not the City Um the in fact here,

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Speaker 1: let me look at up. I can't remember exactly which

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Speaker 1: one it was. It's the one with the fat wheels

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Speaker 1: where you can kind of ride over maybe you're able

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Speaker 1: to ride over that rover. That's what I bought, the

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Speaker 1: rad Rover I heard. It feels like that you're like

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Speaker 1: biking on a sofa because it's so comfortable, it's like

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Speaker 1: a cat. I've got the rad Wagon. So Charles, just

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Speaker 1: heads up, you're gonna love it. Do you like it? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I love it? Man. I put my one year old

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Speaker 1: on the back. We we bike all over town. It's

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Speaker 1: the greatest thing in the world. Yeah. I mean, just

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Speaker 1: e bikes in general are amazing. They are are such

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Speaker 1: a way forward for individuals to be able to take

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Speaker 1: on bike commuting. Uh, even losing a car, like cutting

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Speaker 1: a car from their lives. You know, just the ability

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Speaker 1: to get across town with an e bike is completely

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Speaker 1: changed the game. We're huge fans of it. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, Charles,

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Speaker 1: I saw that you've been featured. You've been a guest

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Speaker 1: on the now defunct Colbert Report. Yes, I've actually in

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Speaker 1: the audience before. Was that a fun experience for you?

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Speaker 1: What was that like? Yeah? It was great. It was great.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's a fantastic host, and um and

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Speaker 1: the whole show is kind of fun. You know. I

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Speaker 1: think anytime the shows like that like it, it actually

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Speaker 1: goes by very very quickly. Um and so, but now,

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Speaker 1: were I really enjoyed it? It It was fantastic. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: was that was kind of an incredible role that he

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Speaker 1: had for those years. It might not work, um, Matt

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Speaker 1: and I were discussing as well right now in today's time.

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Speaker 1: But it was so good when he because it was

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Speaker 1: a parody back then. But today it's like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: like all folks are taking it that extreme in real life.

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Speaker 1: It's it's almost not as funny anymore, whereas you know,

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Speaker 1: years ago it was hilarious exactly, U, Charles. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about your podcast. We're fans first of the name of

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Speaker 1: your podcast, by the way, you're one word away from

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Speaker 1: the perfect podcast name. But let's talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the topics you've covered on your podcast. How too. There's

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Speaker 1: one really interesting one that you did, um not too

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Speaker 1: long ago about convincing people to give you money. You

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Speaker 1: highlighted that con artists and folks that run on profits

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Speaker 1: is being especially good at this. So what do you

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Speaker 1: what did you learn in that episode about how to

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Speaker 1: effectively get people to give you money? Well, we had

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Speaker 1: on this this woman named Maria Konakova, who wrote a

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Speaker 1: book about con artists and about how con artists work.

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Speaker 1: Who actually she just published another book called The Big

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Speaker 1: Bad about her learning to become a poker professional. And

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Speaker 1: and what Marina Maria says in her book which is

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Speaker 1: really interesting, and she points out that you know, the

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Speaker 1: con artists kind of operate according to a formula, and

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Speaker 1: part of that formula is basically knowing who their mark

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Speaker 1: is and what their mark wants to here, and then

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Speaker 1: tailoring their pitch to that and giving it a sense

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Speaker 1: of exclusiveness, giving it a sense of scarcity, um, giving

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Speaker 1: it something where they believe that they are they are

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Speaker 1: they're helping other people, although they are also helping themselves.

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Speaker 1: So one of the one of the best cons is

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Speaker 1: something where where the person is going to make money.

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Speaker 1: They believe that they're going to make money. By giving

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Speaker 1: you some money, they're going to make more money. But

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Speaker 1: it's also like, well, you're also helping, like the chill Aldren, right,

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Speaker 1: You're helping like you know, some someone off in another country. Um,

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Speaker 1: you're doing a real favor to them because that way

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Speaker 1: they can dress up their own greed and kind of

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Speaker 1: this need for virtuousness. And what's really interesting is that

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Speaker 1: when you talk to folks who do nonprofit fundraising, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the tactics are very very similar that that

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Speaker 1: you need to tell people that even though they're giving

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Speaker 1: money to a cause, like to a nonprofit, you need

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Speaker 1: to tell them how it's going to benefit them. But

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Speaker 1: then you dress it up in this you know, you're

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Speaker 1: making the world a better place and we're gonna put

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Speaker 1: your name on a building. So it's really all about

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Speaker 1: sort of like about how awesome you are, but we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna let you have a self righteousness that

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Speaker 1: allows you to to feel like you're doing this for

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Speaker 1: the for the right reasons. And so that was really

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Speaker 1: interesting is to sort of figure out like, like what

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Speaker 1: we know is that we know that there is the

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Speaker 1: psychology behind why people how people treat their money. Right,

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Speaker 1: you guys know this, And so a lot of the

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Speaker 1: the tactics that con artists use aren't that dissimilar from

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Speaker 1: the tactics that that fundraisers use, even when they're doing

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Speaker 1: it for a good cause. Yeah, and even in a

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Speaker 1: less con artist type of way, you can use those approaches.

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Speaker 1: You can use those tactics when it comes to like say,

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Speaker 1: asking for a raise, right, you know, if you are

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Speaker 1: trying to convince your employer that how it is that

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Speaker 1: you are helping them, how you're helping the company. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's literally what you need to do when you actually

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Speaker 1: are asking for a raise the chars. More recently, I

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Speaker 1: think my favorite episode was one that you did about

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Speaker 1: a seeing virtual schooling, you know, on Zoom What did

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Speaker 1: you what did you take away from that episode about

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Speaker 1: how to think about our kids and screen time and

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Speaker 1: you know, these COVID times. Well, it's really hard, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that like kids are suffering right now,

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Speaker 1: way more than than we even understand. I have two

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Speaker 1: children myself, and they've been doing virtual school. Now they're

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Speaker 1: back in and well one of them is back in

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Speaker 1: day to day school and the other one is still

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Speaker 1: virtual schooling. It's really really challenging. And and I think

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Speaker 1: that one of the things that we've learned is just

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Speaker 1: that this interact ativity is really important, That being being

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Speaker 1: with other people is really important. If you can't be

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Speaker 1: with other people, that figuring out how to foster conversation,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've found this on my own doing Zoom calls.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys have to that one of the

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Speaker 1: challenges is that you lose all of this kind of

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Speaker 1: ease of what's known as back channeling within psychology that

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Speaker 1: people saying yes, sort of showing with their body whether

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Speaker 1: they're following along or they're distracted. Even when people are thinking,

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Speaker 1: it's harder to know that on zoom. If you're sitting

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Speaker 1: in a room with someone, oftentimes we use eye contact

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Speaker 1: to signal when someone else should feel free to speak, right.

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Speaker 1: We tend not to look at each other in the

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Speaker 1: eyes when we're speaking, but then when we finished the thought,

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Speaker 1: we tend to look at someone else in the eyes,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of a an almost unconscious signal that

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Speaker 1: that person can go ahead and start speaking. The problem

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Speaker 1: is on Zoom if someone's you know, if you're sitting

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Speaker 1: in a room with someone and they're looking off into

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Speaker 1: the corner, which is totally normal, you could look in

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Speaker 1: the corner and see that they're not looking at anything,

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Speaker 1: and you know that they're sort of just thinking about

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Speaker 1: what they're saying. On Zoom, if they're looking off into

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Speaker 1: a corner, it looks like they're distracted or we don't

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Speaker 1: know what they're looking at. And so this distance communication

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Speaker 1: has been really challenging in some ways. I think it's

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Speaker 1: actually more challenging with Zoom than it is without Zoom.

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Speaker 1: I think verbal communication is actually easier in some respects

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Speaker 1: than verbal plus video. And so when it comes to

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Speaker 1: kids and Zoom school, one of the things that we've

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Speaker 1: learned is that you really have to spend some time

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Speaker 1: thinking about how are you going to keep that kid engaged?

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Speaker 1: How are you going to make it easier for them

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Speaker 1: to pay attention, because it's just so hard, so easy

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Speaker 1: to get distracted and to kind of tune out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now that's that's true. I found that with my kids,

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Speaker 1: and especially a kindergartener, trying to get used to UM

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Speaker 1: school in the first place, much less school virtually. It's

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Speaker 1: um it's pretty rough. It's pretty rough. Charles. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about habits for just a little bit. Your best selling book,

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Speaker 1: The Power of Habit. It's just really really good and

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Speaker 1: so many great stories we've in there that brought your

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Speaker 1: points home. But what kind of actually spawned your initial

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Speaker 1: interest in taking on that subject in general? Well, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was just interested. And I had this

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Speaker 1: basic question, which is like, if I'm if I'm so

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Speaker 1: smart at other stuff? Right? I had? I had gone

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Speaker 1: to Yale for college and to Harvard Business School for

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Speaker 1: to get my m b a. And and yet there

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Speaker 1: were all these things, I still felt like I had

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Speaker 1: struggled with so much, right, Like I struggled to eat

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Speaker 1: more healthily, I struggled to make myself exercise more. And

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Speaker 1: I just kept on thinking like if I'm so smart,

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Speaker 1: like why is it so hard to do these things

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Speaker 1: that I see other people do all the time? Right,

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Speaker 1: Like why is it hard for me to master my habits?

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Speaker 1: And so so the goal of writing the book was

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Speaker 1: in part just to educate myself, like how do habits work?

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Speaker 1: If I understand them better, will that help me understand

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Speaker 1: how to control my own habits? And it turns out

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Speaker 1: that we we are, and we're living through this sort

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Speaker 1: of golden age of understanding habit research that that for

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Speaker 1: the first time, because of advances in neurology and other

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Speaker 1: psychological sciences, that there was this ability to understand and

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Speaker 1: observe habits at the mo some my neute level. And

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Speaker 1: so once I started looking into that, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was fascinating and decided like, that's that's what I want

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Speaker 1: to write a book about, because I wanted to learn

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Speaker 1: it for myself but then also share it with other people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: personal growth, Right, that's a great excuse to dive into

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Speaker 1: that research, and in your book as well, you side

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Speaker 1: a study that shows that like around daily activities are habits,

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Speaker 1: Like we don't even think about them, right, And so

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Speaker 1: does this mean that like half of our lives are

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Speaker 1: like we're just reacting to cues. Uh, and you know

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Speaker 1: we're kind of doing things just mostly without thinking. Makes

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Speaker 1: me thinko'me a robot or something. Yeah, So it's fort

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Speaker 1: And what it means is, I mean to be clear,

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Speaker 1: what a habit is. A habit is a choice that

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Speaker 1: you make at some point and then you stop making

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Speaker 1: the choice, but you continue doing it. Right, So, so

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Speaker 1: the first time that you walked into the um, you know,

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Speaker 1: walked into the cafeteria work, you decided to go get

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Speaker 1: a sandwich instead of a salad, even though the salad

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Speaker 1: was was healthier, and then you just kept on doing

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Speaker 1: that without kind of consciously making the decision. What we

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Speaker 1: know is that our brains are designed to actually basically

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Speaker 1: kind of stop stop spending so much energy when we're

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Speaker 1: in the grip of a habit. That's why habits are

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Speaker 1: so useful, is because they free up cognitive capacity for

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Speaker 1: other tasks, even when we're driving to work or walking

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Speaker 1: down the Street. So what that means is that you

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Speaker 1: know of what we do every day. At some point

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Speaker 1: you made a decision on how to spend that time,

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Speaker 1: but then you just kind of continued on autopilot with

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Speaker 1: according to that decision without reconsidering it. And so the

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Speaker 1: more that you can sort of analyze your own habits

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Speaker 1: and say like, oh, look, I'm doing this behavior because

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Speaker 1: of a habit and there's a queue and there's a

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Speaker 1: reward that's driving that activity that routine, the more control

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Speaker 1: you get over actually making making the habits that you

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Speaker 1: want to have rather than the ones that just kind

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Speaker 1: of emerge without our permission. Charles, we want to talk

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Speaker 1: more about habit formation and get your tips on breaking

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Speaker 1: bad habits, and this of course applies to how we

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Speaker 1: handle money at the same time. We'll get to some

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Speaker 1: of that right after this break. All right, we are

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Speaker 1: back from the break talking with Charles do Hig about

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Speaker 1: habits and Charles, you write about specifically the habit loop

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Speaker 1: in your book, but I'd love to discuss how we

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Speaker 1: can break bad habits that we might have fallen into.

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Speaker 1: Right um, bad habits they can call it cause us

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Speaker 1: to spend money, maybe emotionally waste time on social media

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Speaker 1: other things. Right, you write how habits can develop into

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Speaker 1: even a massive gambling addiction that's almost impossible to curb.

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Speaker 1: You give an example in your book. So how in

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Speaker 1: the world do we actually kick a bad habit? Well,

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Speaker 1: the first thing is is to to to realize that

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Speaker 1: thinking in terms of breaking a bad habit is exactly

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Speaker 1: the wrong way to think about it. And that's part

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Speaker 1: of the lexicon. Right we say, like, I want to

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Speaker 1: break a bad habit, but that's not how habits work.

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Speaker 1: We can't we with willpower, you might be able to

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Speaker 1: extinguish a habit you don't like for a little while,

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Speaker 1: but as soon as you feel stressed or as soon as,

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Speaker 1: like you know, you have a moment of weakness, it's

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Speaker 1: going to come back because that neural pathway is still

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Speaker 1: in your brain. So the way to think about it

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Speaker 1: is as changing a bad habit, replacing one behavior with

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Speaker 1: another behavior, rather than breaking that bad habit. And to

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Speaker 1: to do that you have to understand how habits work.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned the habit loop. So the thing about

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Speaker 1: habits is that every habit has three parts. There's a

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Speaker 1: queue which is a trigger for an automatic behavior to start,

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Speaker 1: and then the routine, which is the behavior itself, and

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Speaker 1: then finally a reward. Every habit in your life, whether

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Speaker 1: you're aware of it or not, is delivering a reward

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Speaker 1: to you, and and a part of your brain known

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Speaker 1: as the basical ganglia exists to kind of recognize that

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Speaker 1: reward and make that that chunk of behavior, that Q

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Speaker 1: routine reward easier and easier to do for you. So

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Speaker 1: if you have a bad habit and you want to

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Speaker 1: change it, the first thing to do is to identify

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Speaker 1: the que and the reward. Try and figure out, you know,

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Speaker 1: what is triggering this behavior and what reward is it

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Speaker 1: delivering it to me, and then find a new behavior,

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Speaker 1: a new routine that you can insert into that habit

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Speaker 1: loop that corresponds to that old queue and that delivers

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Speaker 1: something similar to that old reward. So for many people,

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Speaker 1: let's take smoking as an example, right, because we think

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Speaker 1: of smoking as a as a particularly pernicious habit, an addiction,

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Speaker 1: and and nicotine is addicting. It's actually less addicting than

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Speaker 1: we sort of popularly know. It is. About a hundred

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Speaker 1: hours after your last cigarette, nicotine is out of your blood,

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Speaker 1: your blood system, your bloodstream, and people are no longer

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Speaker 1: physically addicted to nicotine. So it's less the drug and

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Speaker 1: it's more the habit. Is what you're saying, Well, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: People get in the habit of smoking, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: weeks after giving up cigarettes, years, they still feel that

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Speaker 1: urge for a cigarette when they're sitting down with their

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Speaker 1: morning coffee. You know, if you have that urge years

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Speaker 1: after giving them cigarettes, that's clearly not a physical addiction,

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Speaker 1: that's a habit dysfunction. But but habits exist in the

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Speaker 1: same part of our brain as addictions, and so they

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Speaker 1: feel very, very similar. And so if you want to

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Speaker 1: of up cigarettes, you can. You can just go cold

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Speaker 1: turkey and throw them away. But a better thing to

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Speaker 1: do is to try and figure out, Okay, what reward

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Speaker 1: is smoking giving me? And for many people it's that

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Speaker 1: um smoking provides a break from work, right, so you

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Speaker 1: need something else that's going to provide a break from work,

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Speaker 1: some some new routine that delivers similar reward. For some people,

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Speaker 1: smoking actually calms them down, right, It's the nicotine has

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Speaker 1: a kind of calming effect, in which case they need

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Speaker 1: to find something else to calm themselves down. And for

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Speaker 1: some people it's um it's gives them a little bit

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Speaker 1: more energy. So they need to start drinking coffee when

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Speaker 1: they would normally smoke in order to replace that behavior.

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Speaker 1: But that's kind of the point, is that you don't

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Speaker 1: break a bad habit, you change it. And once you

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Speaker 1: change it, then that that change becomes much more sustainable.

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Speaker 1: And what about just forming a new habit, like just

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Speaker 1: out of the blue? Right? Um? And And we're in

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Speaker 1: a time of year where people are probably particularly thinking

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Speaker 1: about starting a new habit and creating, you know, some

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Speaker 1: change in their lives. And so you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of our listeners particularly are like, how can I maybe

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Speaker 1: spend more mindfully this year or actually stick to a budget.

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Speaker 1: If they're looking to start from scratch to create a

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Speaker 1: good habit right now, where do you suggest they start?

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Speaker 1: So this is a great question. We actually just recorded

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Speaker 1: a podcast episode about this, it's gonna be gonna be

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Speaker 1: coming out next week about how to create good spending habits.

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Speaker 1: And and there's a couple of things that people should

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Speaker 1: keep in mind. Number one is is you know, first

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Speaker 1: of all, you just have to have the basic like

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Speaker 1: sort of money hygiene. So like, if you have debt,

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Speaker 1: you should be paying down your debt. If you you

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Speaker 1: should absolutely have a budget, Like if you don't have

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Speaker 1: a monthly and a weekly budget, then and if you're

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Speaker 1: not tracking what you're spending, then you don't know what

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Speaker 1: is going on in your own finances and you can't

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Speaker 1: possibly be on top of it. So so there's some

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Speaker 1: basic money hygiene stuff that everyone should do. But then

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Speaker 1: on top of that, like the question is how do

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Speaker 1: we think about the habits, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the spending that we do. So when people finally you

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Speaker 1: get their budget and they and they track what they've

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Speaker 1: spend every week, what they see is they see that

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Speaker 1: they're wasting a lot of money, right, They're oftentimes wasting

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Speaker 1: money on things like going to Starbucks. They're wasting money

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Speaker 1: on you know, buying, particularly during the pandemic, buying things

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Speaker 1: from Amazon. One woman, this woman we were talking to yesterday,

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Speaker 1: I said, she feels anxious if she doesn't have an

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Speaker 1: Amazon package coming, which which sounds ridiculous, but I totally understand,

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Speaker 1: right because I think lots of people feel that way.

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Speaker 1: And then and then on top of that is this

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Speaker 1: this question of what are the rewards that these are providing?

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Speaker 1: You know, people spend too much money going to restaurants

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Speaker 1: and on food. That's always something that people overspend on.

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Speaker 1: They buy too much food, or they buy food from restaurants,

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Speaker 1: or they're going to you know, um, Whole Foods rather

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Speaker 1: than the local grocery store that's cheaper. And so once

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Speaker 1: you know what your habits are by tracking what you're

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Speaker 1: actually doing, then you can start asking yourself, Okay, so

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Speaker 1: what rewards are this actually providing? Right? Am I buying

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Speaker 1: because I'm bored during the pandemic? The answer is often yes,

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Speaker 1: people are bored. They need a break from like their

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Speaker 1: zoom calls, their online and they go to Amazon, or

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Speaker 1: they go to one of these websites that like has

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Speaker 1: like you know, here's like the ten new things you

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Speaker 1: should buy, or extra Instagram, which is just constantly feeding

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Speaker 1: you stuff to buy two now, yeah, exactly exactly, And

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Speaker 1: so like, are you buying stuff because you need it?

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Speaker 1: Are you buying stuff because you're bored? Chances are you're

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Speaker 1: buying stuff because you're bored very often, and so then

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Speaker 1: the question becomes Okay, so the answer is not to

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Speaker 1: just say I'm going to stop going to those websites,

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Speaker 1: because you're still going to be bored the answer is

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Speaker 1: to say, how do I come up with something else

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Speaker 1: that solves that boredom? How do I come up with

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Speaker 1: something else that provides the reward that I used to

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Speaker 1: get from shopping, which is some novelty, some sense of

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Speaker 1: excitement about the future. And there's lots of different ways

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Speaker 1: to do that, right, Like, once you once you pose

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Speaker 1: the problem that way, you can say, oh, instead of

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Speaker 1: instead of like, you know, if I'm bored, instead of

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Speaker 1: like going and surfing to the website, I'm gonna let

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Speaker 1: myself watch ten minutes of TV. Right, I'm gonna turn

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Speaker 1: on a TV show and I'm gonna watch it on

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Speaker 1: my computer. Instead of going to Amazon, I'm just for

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Speaker 1: ten minutes. I'm gonna go to our Instagram for ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go and I'm gonna watch The Queen's Gambit

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Speaker 1: for ten minutes, right, and like I'm gonna set a timer.

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Speaker 1: But the point is that, like that's a cheaper way

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Speaker 1: of solving your borda. And the more that you break

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Speaker 1: it down and you say, what rewards is this spending

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Speaker 1: giving me, the more you're gonna get closer to figuring

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Speaker 1: out a way to make it easier for yourself. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you shared another example to where it's just snacking can

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Speaker 1: be a habit when in reality you realize that you're

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Speaker 1: not hungry, you're just looking for some socialization. I know

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Speaker 1: I kind of fall into that same trap when I

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sitting here working, I have a tendency

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Speaker 1: to to think, Okay, maybe it's time for another coffee,

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Speaker 1: but what I really need is just a break. And

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Speaker 1: so even just standing up grabbing a kettlebell, which is yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's also a healthy kind of thing to do. But

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Speaker 1: like doing some kettle bells wings gets the blood flow

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Speaker 1: and and all of a sudden, I'm feeling ready to

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Speaker 1: continue working. Absolutely absolutely so, Like I think that's exactly right. Like,

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Speaker 1: like we want something, we want an excuse to stand

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Speaker 1: up and walk around, and the easiest way to stand

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Speaker 1: up and walk around is to walk over to the

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Speaker 1: kitchen and get something to eat. But like you just

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Speaker 1: as easily stand up, and once you realize that what

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Speaker 1: you really want is to stand up and walk around,

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Speaker 1: you can stand up and walk around the other direction

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Speaker 1: and pick up a cattle bell, or you know, just

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Speaker 1: go outside and walk around the block, walk away from

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Speaker 1: the fridge. Exactly uh. Well. In your book To the

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Speaker 1: Power of Habit, Charles You, you also credit community and

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Speaker 1: peer pressure as reasons why certain habits tend to remain sticky.

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Speaker 1: Given the increased isolation so many of us have felt

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Speaker 1: during the pandemic, and obviously the decrease in in person community,

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Speaker 1: how have you seen that impact individuals in the you know,

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Speaker 1: the way they exhibit habits and behaviors. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: that strangely, like actually people feel are feeling. Many people

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Speaker 1: are feeling a stronger sense of community during the pandemic.

429
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: They tend you know, one of the things that undermines

430
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 1: community is um not spending enough time with the same

431
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 1: group of people. So so one of the things that

432
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 1: we know is that like having a community doesn't It

433
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how many people are in the community. It

434
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: matters how much time you're spending with those people. And

435
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: so in many of our daily lives, you can be around,

436
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred people in a day, a d

437
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,959
Speaker 1: people in a day, but you're not really interacting with

438
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: many of them for more than a couple of minutes.

439
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: If you take like alcoholics Anonymous as an example, one

440
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: of the important things about alcoholics Anonymous is that it's

441
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: very stable. It tends as a state, it has a

442
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: it typically has a very stable time. It happens the

443
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: same time every day, very stable UM structure. It usually

444
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: opens with someone telling a story about themselves, and you know,

445
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: you sort of say these similar these similar things each time.

446
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,959
Speaker 1: And equally importantly, you tend to have a pretty stable

447
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: group of people there, so you see the same people

448
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: usually each time you go to Alcoholics Anonymous, and that

449
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: stability is an important part of why that community feels supportive.

450
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: So one of the things that's happening right now with

451
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: the pandemic is you're exactly right. We see less people

452
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: and so our community has shrunk, but we tend to

453
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: spend a lot more time with the people that we

454
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: see because we're at home with them um and so,

455
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 1: or we're on zoom calls with them all day long.

456
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: And so what we found is that for some people,

457
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: community has actually been strengthened in some ways. Now, that

458
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's easier, right, that doesn't mean that like

459
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: like that community feels really invigorating, UM, because you have

460
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: to put work into a community and it's not supposed

461
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: to feel like fun all the time. But for people

462
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: who feel like they're missing community. I think that's part

463
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: of the solution is to find find people to touch

464
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: base with, the same people to touch base with on

465
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: a regular basis. So to have a regular, you know,

466
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: once a week zoom call with your friend where you

467
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: guys know you're going to get on at Friday at

468
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: noon every every week and you're gonna have a zoom

469
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: lunch together. That's really important. Charles. You also end up

470
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: boiling a whole lot down to the power of belief.

471
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: You know, why is beliefs so important? And how do

472
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: we develop like a deeper sense of belief in ourselves

473
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: in order to affect change? Well? Is so so belief

474
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: believing that you can change is really important to making change,

475
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: um effective. And what we know about belief is that

476
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: the best way to actually to to actually learn to

477
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: believe in yourself is to practice believing in in anything. Right,

478
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: like so again to return to Alcoholics anonymous. Not that

479
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: a A is like perfect, but but there's a lot

480
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: of sort of interesting lessons there. Um. One of the

481
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: one of the steps in A is that they tell

482
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: you to believe in a higher power. Now they don't

483
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: say it has to be religious They don't say it

484
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: has to be God. It could be like, you know,

485
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: my higher power is democracy. But but they do encourage

486
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: you to believe in something larger than yourself. And I

487
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: think the reason why that's so important is because basically

488
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: what they're doing is they're getting people to practice believing

489
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: in things, and eventually that muscle, that believing muscle, gets

490
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: strengthened and people can learn how to believe in themselves.

491
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: And so the thing that like, I think is really

492
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: helpful if if people are struggling with things is and

493
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: they want to build up their capacity to believe that

494
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: they can change is what's known as the science of

495
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: small winds. Basically to take these baby steps. What we

496
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: know about change happens is that most change happens because

497
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: people have small, incremental, nonlinear successes that lead up to

498
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,239
Speaker 1: a big change. So so instead of saying I'm going

499
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: to go around a marathon, they say tomorrow morning, I'm

500
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: going to go for a walk around the block. And

501
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: they go for a walk around the block and it's

502
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: not that hard, and they they they have this small wind, right,

503
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: I go in for a block and they believe, like

504
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: I am, I'm the kind of person who can go

505
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: for a walk around the block and then the next

506
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: day they say, okay, so I went for a walk

507
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: around the block. Now I'm gonna go around the walk

508
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: for two blocks, and they do that, and eventually they

509
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: get so tired of just walking there, like I'm gonna

510
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: take a jog, and I'm gonna jog for half a mile,

511
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: and these small baby steps the science of small winds,

512
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: that is how we learn to believe in ourselves is

513
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: by practicing belief in smaller, low stakes cases. And that's

514
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: really really important because we can do that for anything,

515
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: whether it's saving money or getting in better shape. As

516
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: long as you can sort of find some ways to

517
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: take baby steps, then you know that you're going to

518
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: be in a position where you can train yourself to

519
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: believe that change as possible. Yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome.

520
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 1: I love that insight from the book for sure, and

521
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: it really is powerful. It's something that we can use

522
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: to our advantage. Charles, we have just a few more

523
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: questions for you in including what it looks like to

524
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: create a to do list that we can actually um

525
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: take charge of and and do well that will actually

526
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: influence us for the better. And we'll get to some

527
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: of those questions right after this break. All right, we're

528
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: back to the break talking with Charles do Hig about habits,

529
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: and Charles, before we talk about, you know, kind of

530
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: optimizing our life, I wanted to touch real quickly too.

531
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: On keystone habits. You mentioned that in your book. Uh,

532
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: you mentioned how they can kind of create habit momentum

533
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: in your life, you know, And so can you share

534
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: what keystone habits are and why it is that they're

535
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: so important? Yeah, So keystone habits. One of the things

536
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: that we've learned from research on habits is that some

537
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: habits seem to matter more than others because when they

538
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: start to change, they set up a chain reaction that

539
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: changes other patterns as well. So an example of this

540
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: is exercised, right, for many people exercises a keystone habits,

541
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: and when they start exercising habitually, what happens is they

542
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: start eating more healthily as well. They're they're eating habits

543
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: change and and that kind of weirdly makes sense to us. Right,

544
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: everyone's kind of experienced that you go for a run

545
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: in the morning, and then when you go to have lunch,

546
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: it's easier to get the salad rather than the unhealthy hamburger.

547
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that when we look at people

548
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: who have started exercising habitually, for many of them, when

549
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: that habit starts, they also start using their credit cards less.

550
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: They tend to procrastinate less at work. They this is

551
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: my favorite finding, they do their dishes like, wash their

552
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: dishes on average twenty minutes earlier in the day on

553
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: they've exercised. And and that makes lesson to it have

554
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: sense to us, right like none of us think of

555
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: of ourselves is going out for a run and think like, oh,

556
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep my amex in my pockets today rather

557
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: than taking it out. And yet what we know is

558
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: that the same way that the exercise habits change eating habits,

559
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: they change other patterns in our lives as well. And

560
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: that's because for many people exercises a keystone habit. It

561
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 1: changes how we see ourselves and that change has an

562
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: almost subconscious influence on other choices that we make. And

563
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: so for many people that the question is, how can

564
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: you identify the keystone habits in your life the changes

565
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: you can make that will set off a chain reaction

566
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: that will change other patterns. And the answer is to

567
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: look for those changes that kind of seem irrationally scary. Right.

568
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: For the reason why exercise is such a powerful keystone

569
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: habit for so many people is because oftentimes, um it's

570
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: it's it's not a keystone habit for people who are

571
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: like high school athletes, like people who are accustomed to

572
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: seeing themselves as athletic, usually will not see a big

573
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: change in their life when they start exercising on a

574
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: regular basis after like a period of inactivity. But it's

575
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: for people who were not high school athletes, the people

576
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: who never thought of themselves as athletes, when they start running,

577
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, three times a week, they start subtly thinking

578
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: of themselves as a different kind of person. They start

579
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: thinking of them is the kind of person who manages

580
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: to run three times a week, and that that kind

581
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: of person doesn't spend recklessly, that kind of person doesn't

582
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: eat unhealthily. And so the key is to look for

583
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: those types of change that seems irrationally scary to you.

584
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: And that's usually a clue that if you change it,

585
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: it will change yourself image a little bit, and that

586
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: that will have an impact on the other patterns in

587
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: your life. So, are there any things that you found

588
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,239
Speaker 1: in going through all the research and through writing your

589
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: book that any keystone happens that particularly affected how we

590
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: handle our money. So thinking of yourself as a saver, right,

591
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: like the like like somebody who. So, So here's how

592
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: I do my money. I use Mint to track all

593
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 1: of my purchases right sizing all my bank accounts every

594
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: single week. Once a week, I sit down and I

595
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: have a spreadsheet on Excel, and I fill in all

596
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: these things in the spreadsheet with how much money is

597
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: in my is in my bank accounts, how much credit

598
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: card like, how much is on my credit cards right

599
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: now out? How much is in my four oh one K,

600
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: how much is in my investments I have like you know,

601
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: ten or twelve cells that I fill in on that spreadsheet.

602
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: And then there's a little formulas that tell me how

603
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: much I spent compared to last week, how much more,

604
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: how much money is in whether my net balance is

605
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: up or down from last week, how much money I've

606
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: made overall, except you know, how much how much more

607
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: is on my credit card or less on my credit card?

608
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: And and so this is a habit for me. I

609
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: do it every single week. And the thing that it

610
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: does is it makes me very, very aware of the

611
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: money patterns in my life. It also makes me think

612
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: of myself as someone who thinks about money, who thinks

613
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: about like and cares about where my money is going.

614
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: And I think in part that's why writing a budget

615
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: and tracking your own spending is so powerful, is because

616
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: not only does it give you the data to kind

617
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: of see what's going on and see where you're spending

618
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: too much, but if you do it regularly, if you

619
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: stick with that budget, if you look each day to

620
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: see what you spent on or each week, you start

621
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: thinking of your off as the kind of person who

622
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: cares about where their money is going. And that kind

623
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: of person, that kind of person does not make frivolous

624
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: purchases quite as easily. And so the number one keystone

625
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: habit for people around money that can change how they

626
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: spend is to create a budget and update their budget regularly,

627
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: because that habit not only gives you information, but it

628
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: also changes how you see yourself when it comes to money.

629
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, That change and identity is what

630
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: happens there. Charles. In your book Smarter, Faster Better, you

631
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: talk more about focus in an age of information overload,

632
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 1: in the world of personal finance, you know, information can

633
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: be blinding, and so how do we filter the information

634
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: that is helpful versus the stuff that we should probably ignore.

635
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: The first thing to understand is that is that more

636
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: information is not better. Oftentimes it's worse. Right. You can

637
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: you can overwhelm yourself with with information and basically not

638
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: learn anything as a result. So the key is that

639
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: you really don't want more than at the most three

640
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: data points that you're paying attention to, and it's pretty

641
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: and like if you have lesson three, that's even better.

642
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: So like at first you can just say, look, I

643
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: want to I want to compare um, you know my

644
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: my bank account balances this week with the same time

645
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: last week, and see if they've gone up and down.

646
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: And I want to compare you know how much I

647
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: spent on food this week with how much I budgeted

648
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: for food this week, and just starting small that way,

649
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: and really like like focusing in on that because that

650
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: whatever we focus on, we're gonna be able to change.

651
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: And if you focus on if you have fifteen categories

652
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: in your budget, and each week you look at all

653
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: fifteen categories and you're trying to figure out what's going on.

654
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: If you do that at first, you're not gonna make

655
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: any changes. You're gonna be so like overwhelmed by the

656
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: amount of information you have. So the key is at

657
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: first choose one or two, at most three data points

658
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: to pay attention to. Now, over time you might get

659
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: to a place where you can do more data points. Right,

660
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, two months down the road, you're like, Okay,

661
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 1: now I'm looking at two other things. I'm looking at

662
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: food and I'm looking at you know, how much I'm

663
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: spending on commuting. But but only once I get food

664
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: under control do I start paying attention to that commuting budget.

665
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: The key is to not let yourself feel productive because

666
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: you're looking at a lot of data and not actually

667
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: get anything done. The less data you are looking at,

668
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: the higher the odds that you're actually gonna change what

669
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: you're paying attention to. That's that's great stuff. Yeah, I

670
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: want to ask you to Charles about to do list. Um,

671
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: they're just kind of one of these simple but typically

672
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: they ineffective sometimes and super effective depending on how you

673
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: use them. Um, but they can be used really well.

674
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: And you've talked about how you create a better to

675
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: do list that that actually helps us get more done. Like,

676
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: what's the trick to making it to do list? It's

677
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: actually successful. Yeah, So it's very similar to focus, which

678
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: is that that what we know from studies is that

679
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: most people create to do lists that have like twenty

680
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: or thirty things on them because what they're actually using

681
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: their to do list is as a memory aid rather

682
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: than rather than trying to remember things. They put it

683
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: on a piece of paper, and that's great because it's

684
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: much easier to remember things when they're written down than

685
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: trying to carry them around in your in your brain.

686
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: But then they make this mistake, which is they say, Okay,

687
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: this memory aid that I've developed, that's my to do list,

688
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: and that's that's not the right way of doing things

689
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: because what will happen, and we know this from studies

690
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: is that oftentimes people will look for the easiest things

691
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: on that list too and do them because it feels

692
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: so good to cross them off. So I think you

693
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: mentioned that sometimes people write something down that they've already

694
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: done just so they can put People who write to

695
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: do list, they'll write down a task they've already completed

696
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: because it feels so good to cross the guilty. So

697
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: the key is like you should have a memory aid

698
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: that's a piece of paper, But then you should have

699
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: another piece of paper, which is your to do list,

700
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: and you should not have more than three things on

701
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: that to do list. And what should be on that

702
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: to do list is number one, the most important thing

703
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: to do today. Number two, if you get that first

704
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: thing done, the next most important thing to do. And

705
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: number three what you suspect is the is the most

706
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 1: important thing for tomorrow, but you might change it when

707
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: you write tomorrow's to do list. And you write a

708
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: new to do list every single morning. And the goal

709
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: of a to do list is not to simply help

710
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: you remember things. It's to prioritize things. And that's why

711
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: you never want more than three things on it is

712
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: because the the act of writing it to do list

713
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: is to force you to to decide what is the

714
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: most important thing I want to get done today, and

715
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: then putting that as the top priority and ignoring everything else. Yeah,

716
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: there's a difference between doing the things that you need

717
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: to do right now versus just all the things that

718
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: are in your mind that you want to have a

719
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: list of somewhere else. But that's not necessarily your to

720
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: do list. Exactly right. So, Charles, thank you so much

721
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: for taking the time to hang out with list today.

722
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: Where can people find more about you and your podcast?

723
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: They can find so if they just look for how

724
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: to by how to with Charles do Hig on Slate,

725
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: they can find the podcast wherever they listen to podcasts,

726
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: and they can find out more about me or about

727
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: the power of habit or smarter fester better just by

728
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: googling any of those. Its are going to Charles Doohig

729
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: dot com or um see doohig on Twitter if you

730
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: folks on to follow me. Awesome. Thanks again for your

731
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: time today, Charles, We appreciate it. Take care, Joel May.

732
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: What a great conversation we just had here with Charles

733
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: about habits and you know, in particularly this time of

734
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: the year, as folks are basically thinking through like how

735
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: can they become a better person this year, how it

736
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: is they can stick to their New Year's resolutions. Talking

737
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: about habits and how they're formed and how it is

738
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: that we stick to them is so important, Uh soth.

739
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad we had this conversation today. Man, what was

740
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: your big takeaway today? One? I'm just proud of Charles

741
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: for getting an e bike because the bikes are the future.

742
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: So and of course he gets a rat Rat power bike.

743
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody is getting those bikes these days. They're

744
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: so affordable. So even though Charles and I have never

745
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: met in person, we can be best friends. It works. Um,

746
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: you have that kindred spirit exactly. And yeah, it was

747
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: definitely hard to pick one takeaway from this episode. Man,

748
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: it was jam packed full of knowledge and just a

749
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: lot of interesting insight. But I think my biggest one

750
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: was that small winds are so important. And you know,

751
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: one of the things that he said was if you're

752
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: not a natural budget or if you kind of hate

753
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: budgeting in particular, or or really anybody like you should

754
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: focus on fewer data points. And I think when we're

755
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: trying to come up with a budget and you and I,

756
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe six months ago we had an

757
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: episode where we talked about different styles of budgeting for

758
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: different personalities and we mentioned simpler being better. Um, a

759
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: lot of focus us what they need right, and that

760
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: was echoed in this conversation that the simpler your budget,

761
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: the more effectively you're gonna be able to stick to it.

762
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: So concentrate maybe on a few data points that most

763
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: negatively impact your budget. Um. And if you can just

764
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: over the course of a few months pay attention to

765
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: those two or three things where you find yourself overspending, UM,

766
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: then you don't necessarily have to have just this robust

767
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: budget that you're chaking in on on a weekly basis

768
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: that's overwhelming you that you're not gonna be able to

769
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: stick to. If instead you focus on just a few

770
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,479
Speaker 1: data points, I think it will help you be able

771
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: to actually find budgeting as a useful tool um. In one.

772
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know, that was my big takeaway,

773
00:36:58,440 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a lot of goals in this one.

774
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: So what was good? It was good? No, Yeah, I

775
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: mean it's certainly the power of focus, right, you know,

776
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: to focus on a few of those things and make

777
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: sure that you succeed at those things versus getting bogged

778
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: down by all the details. I mean, it's something we

779
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: talked about even in our year end review episode. But

780
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: for me, my big tig away man was kind of

781
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: when we talked about Keystone habits. And he writes more

782
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: about this in his book, but you know, he he

783
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: elaborated more here in the conversation. How when you start

784
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: doing something that's really scary to you. How you when

785
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: when you have this irrational fear of doing something. I

786
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: have lots of irrational fears matter, but it should you

787
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: should pay attention to those things, you know, like when

788
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: you feel that way about something, it's like, Okay, what

789
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: is it about this thing that makes me feel that way?

790
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: And he's pointing out that as we confront those fears

791
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: and as we change our behaviors, we also change our identity.

792
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: You know. Uh. In particular, he highlighted exercise. For a

793
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: lot of people, they see that as this scary thing,

794
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: like how do you get to the point where you're

795
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: just going to work nine to five and working versus

796
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, seeing the people on the weekends running marathons

797
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: or triathlon It's that kind of thing. There's a wide

798
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: chasm between those two points. Yeah. I thought one of

799
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: the most interesting things that he said about exercise, which

800
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: is always the thing he goes through my mind, is

801
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: I don't have enough time to do that. But what

802
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: he what he the point he made was that you

803
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: people that exercise actually have more time in their lives.

804
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: It's fascinating how the dishes sooner in the day. Yeah,

805
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: it's It's fascinating how that works. And so I need

806
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: to stop using that as an excuse and start working

807
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 1: on my habit. Yeah. Yeah, And so I just love

808
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: the fact that by confronting these fears, though, how you

809
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: literally start thinking of yourself differently. You know, you start

810
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 1: exercising a little bit, you go for a run around

811
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: the block, and all of a sudden, I am an exerciser,

812
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: Like that's just it becomes a part of your identity.

813
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: And I love that. Uh. And the same thing when

814
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: it comes to like looking at your money. He knows

815
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: that by looking at his money once a week that

816
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: has changed the way that he views his own personal finances.

817
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: You know, he then sees that, oh, I am a saver.

818
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: This is who I am. It becomes a part of

819
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: who you are. And when you have a sense of

820
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: identity like that, you are invested to stick with it,

821
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: no doubt. So yeah, I hope that information was helpful

822
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: to all of our listeners as they're looking to either

823
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: you know, kick off a new habit this year, um

824
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: in particular, in all likelihood, if they're listening to this

825
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: show a positive habit, positive habits and in regard to

826
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: their personal finances, or really just any habit. This was

827
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: a conversation that I think can can help you potentially

828
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: stick to some of those New Year's resolutions that you

829
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: might have already made. Um, all right, now, let's get

830
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: back to the beer that we had while we were

831
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: talking with Charles. This one was called Boys in the

832
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: Yard Milkshake I p A. And the reason it's called

833
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: it's actually boys in. I love a good boyson berry

834
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: pun and so that's what this one was. It was

835
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: literally an I p A with boys and berries tossed

836
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: in from a local brewery down the street from us

837
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: called Wrecking Bar, a brewpub. Matt Warrior thoughts on this beer, man, Yeah,

838
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: I Reckon Bar is one of our favorite local brewpubs

839
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: here in Atlanta. And Dude, one of the first things

840
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: that I thought of, as you mentioned, you know, the

841
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: boys and berries is like, what is a boys in?

842
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: It makes me thinking of that a little bitch head

843
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: for joke, But like, boys and berries aren't something you

844
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: regularly see, you know. It's it's not like a typical

845
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: berry that you would pick up at the grocery store,

846
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: at least if you have. It's not one that I

847
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 1: have either, Like strawberries, blueberries. Yeah, yeah, you some raspberries.

848
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: I'm getting crazy. It's it's like one of those berries

849
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: that you cook with that that find their way into

850
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: beers or other dishes like that. But I've never had

851
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: a boison berry on its own, And like, what is

852
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: a boison tree or bush? Like, I'm curious to know.

853
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: But I really enjoyed this one. Man. This was, like

854
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: you said, a milkshake, I p A. So it was

855
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: kind of creamy. It's got some of that lactose sugar

856
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: in there, but it also had some of that fruitiness

857
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: that Boyson berry ads. Not having had a boison berry separately,

858
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: I can't necessarily pick it out, you know. I'm like, oh,

859
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: I can really taste the boys and berry notes. I

860
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: taste fruit and so therefore that makes me think, oh

861
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: that must be boys and must be. But I did

862
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: enjoy it. This is one that you just picked up

863
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago, and they just can this.

864
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: So it's really fun to to have a really fresh

865
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: crisp I PA like this. Uh, really enjoyed it, man, Yeah,

866
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts? Yeah? Man, I love the smooth

867
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: vibe of a milkshake. I p A. That lactose smoothness

868
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: just kind of um is a different mouth feel which

869
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: I enjoy from time to time. And yeah, the Boysonberry

870
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: action combined with the hops, it's just kind of fast

871
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: nating flavor profile. And yeah, I think it can be

872
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: done poorly. The milkshake I p a, but this one

873
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: was done quite well. So yeah, I love everything. Wrecking

874
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: Barr puts out one of, like you said, one of

875
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: our favorite local breweries. Um so yeah, another winner today. Um.

876
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: By the way, one thing Charles said that we haven't

877
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: talked about. He mentioned The Queen's Gambit. Everyone. If you

878
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: if like you're late to the game on this, you

879
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: should totally watch The Queen's Game. But such an excellent,

880
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: excellent show on that. You burned your way through the

881
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: full first season by oh yeah, oh yeah. I don't

882
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: know if there's a second season coming, but if there is,

883
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: I'll be watching. Nice man. Yeah, that's that's not one

884
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: that Kate and I have started yet, so we didn't

885
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: get to that over the holidays, but maybe we were.

886
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: Well soon you you should. Yeah, Well, folks can find

887
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: our show notes up on our website at how the

888
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: Money dot com. We'll make sure to link to Charles

889
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: podcast and his books as well, where you can learn

890
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: more about the different things he has written about. Yeah,

891
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: and by the way, every other Monday, when we're not

892
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: interviewing somebody, Matt and I are answering your listener questions.

893
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: And especially if you're a new listener and you're kind

894
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: of trying to figure out how money works or you've

895
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: got some questions about your personal finances. Well, we'd love

896
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: to take your question on an upcoming episode. Just go

897
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: to how to money dot com slash ask simple instructions

898
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: there to send a voice memo our way and hopefully

899
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: we can take your question on an upcoming episode. All right, man,

900
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode though, So until

901
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.