1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: You were tuned about Drive on Home of the Black 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: and Goal Steelers Nation Radio. Welcome back. I'm Dale Ali 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: here with Matt Williamson. This is the Drive on Steelers 4 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: Nation Radio. We're pleased to be joined now by Jim Wexel, 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: author extraordinaire and the author of the new book on 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: the Clock Pittsburgh Steelers. Behind the scenes with the Pittsburgh 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: Steelers at the NFL Draft. How you doing, Jim, I'm great, Dale. 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: I just I pulled out of my driveway. My my 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: neighbor he came driving up and rolled his window down 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: really quickly, and he he said, your book. I saw 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: it at Bars and Noble was right at the front. 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: He goes, you hit the big time. Well, I I've 13 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: read the book. I poured through it about about three 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: and a half days. Uh. So that should give you 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: an idea of, uh for anybody you who's thinking about 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: reading this, what kind of I mean, you can just 17 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: sit down and just go because there are a lot 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: of good stories there. And obviously you're you you had 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: a theme to this. Uh you were touching on some 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: of the uh big time drafts that the Steelers had 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: in terms of whether it was an overall Hall or 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: great players, and well there's a lot of yeah, a 23 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: lot of all that kind of stuff for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah, 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: he's starting back in the thirties with wiz Or White. 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: You know, he was I think the original foundational pillar 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: of the Steelers way because not only did they wanted 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: they wanted a star player, but they also wanted to 28 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: upgrade their reputation, the league's reputation. They wanted to add class. 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: They wanted to class to join up. And you know, 30 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: wiz Or White became a Supreme Court justice. So he 31 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: only played one year here. But the way Washington Post 32 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: wrote it up as arn't ruining wanted to class the 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: place up, and he did that. So uh, I mean 34 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: he didn't, uh, you know, play more than one year, 35 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 1: He didn't lead to a championship. In fact, he still 36 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: I think the only leading rusher from a last place team. 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: But um uh interesting, Yeah, he was. He was a 38 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: pillar of the way they do things. And then you know, 39 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: in the fifties with Ernie Stautner and Jack Butler, they 40 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: really toughened up the defense and made Pittsburgh a traditional 41 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: hard hitting team. You know, you didn't you wanted to 42 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: play him because you could get the win, but you 43 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: didn't want to play him because you'd be in pain. 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: On Jimmy just mentioned toughness. Is that a decade after 45 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: decade theme with their their draft process. Yeah, it seemed 46 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: like it started in the fifties when I actually actually 47 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: started paying scouts. I don't know if you you you 48 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: probably didn't read it, Matt, but no, yeah, they all 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: gave it to me yesterday. I'm gone up tonight. You 50 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: know it. It's in the thirties and forties they uh 51 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: there are there are famous Grantlin Rice stories about about 52 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: both Whizzer White and Bill Dudley at the end of 53 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: their careers. And so you know, that's how the Steelers 54 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: drafted out of draft magazines. So you could you could 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: have called Grantlin Rice their first scout, and then and 56 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: then Pat Livingstone was actually their first paid scout, and 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: he became known as one of the great editors of 58 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Press. And he he worked with the undertaker 59 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: Ray Byrne. You've probably seen stories about him through the forties. 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: But Jock Sutherland got mad at uh Livingston and sent 61 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: him on the road to get out of here. Go 62 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: Go look at college players, and that was their first 63 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: road scout, first guy to get paid. He was a newspaperman, 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: and we know the great newspaperman who became the great 65 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: scout Bill None right, right, So us new paper guys, 66 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: we couldn't possibly know anything about anything, right, half scouting, 67 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 1: digging up data and information, and yet better to do that. 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: That's where we do absolutely obvious correlations. I didn't write 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: about this in the book because there's some disagreement on this. 70 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: Myron Cope allegedly talked them into drafting Carl and Hassle Rigg, 71 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: and the Steelers say they were going to take him 72 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: anyway because Myron for for five rounds. I mean, he 73 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: was a twelve round draft pick. Dale. You know you 74 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: covered you went to up There's some Hassle Rigg stories 75 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: around UPJ and I was hiding in the gym the 76 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: day Hassle Rigg worked out for the Steelers. So okay, 77 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: so you knew that they were interested in him without 78 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: Myron Cope having to call the show. Correct, Yes, Myron, 79 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: Myron kept beseeched them to take this guy because he 80 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: was a wrestling sensation, and uh, Mayron thought that it 81 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: was his his guy. And then when they did pick him, 82 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: Iron took all kind of credit. He kept saying a 83 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: lot of birdie was you know, Okay, well, at least 84 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: he gave the little birdie credit so that that there's 85 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: another newspaper guy and a great pick. And then, um, 86 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: you know John Clayton when he was here in eight three, 87 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: he advised Dan Rooney, you know, you should you should 88 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: trade Cliff Stop and draft this Marino guy. And uh, 89 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: that was was a newspaper That was when they stopped 90 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: listening to newspaper guys. I thought the stuff on the 91 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: Ben Roethlisberger draft was really fashionating as well. Obviously, you know, 92 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: I was covering the team at that time, as were you. 93 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: It just some of the machinations that were going on 94 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: behind the scenes with all of that that. Uh, you know, 95 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: there's been so much said about it. Well, you know, 96 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: Bill Coward wanted Sean Andrews and uh, you kind of 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: put something at the rest, I know, and um, you know, 98 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: there are guys in the organization that they hate to hear, 99 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, they I want to just run. They don't 100 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: want to hear this about Dan Rooney being a liar. Okay, 101 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, because Kevin and and Bill Coward have come 102 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: out and we wanted we wanted Roethlisberger. And uh so therefore, 103 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: since Dan Rooney's live to defend himself, it's not well 104 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: by people in the organization. But Kevin explained it. Yes, 105 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, there was interesting Don Alexander, Shawn Andrews. Yeah, 106 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: but uh and Coward came off that and agreed. But 107 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: they didn't. Of course, they don't keep Rooney. Uh like 108 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: I said, I'm not going to do. They have their 109 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: draft board. They knew Dan wanted the quarterback whichever quarterback fell, 110 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: and on Draft Day day and was still you know, 111 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: Mike pursuit of broke that story that they were interested 112 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: in Sean Andrews and that was a real thing. They 113 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: really were, and Mike had that story right. So Dan, 114 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, he's reading what the newspaper guys are writing, 115 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: so they are listening to the favorite guys, and so 116 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: he still thinks that, uh and there's possibility, and so 117 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: he's you know, he's making motions in the back of 118 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: the room while Phil Cradler is doing the reread on Roethlisberger, 119 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: and you know, he's flicking his hand by his ear, 120 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: you know, take the pass or take the passer and 121 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: and they were going to but Sean Andrews was a 122 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: part of that. There was definitely, uh, definitely a lot 123 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: of looking into Sean Andrews. But the way Kevin tells 124 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: the story for the book kind of doesn't call uh 125 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: Dan Rooney a liar that strong language. But I think 126 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: you remember, I think Ed Bouchett wrote that story for 127 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: The Athletic where he talked to Bill Kaward that they 128 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: were gonna draft Ben Roethlisberger anyway. So anyway, this kind 129 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: of mary marries all of that. It does give you 130 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: some some you know, everybody, well every years the Steelers 131 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: come out after they take their first round draft pick 132 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: and they say this was a Steeler pick. Nobody, nobody 133 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: takes credit for just being you know, no, it wasn't 134 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: Mike Tomlin, it wasn't Kevin Colbert. And now Omar conn 135 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: Uh they come they truly do come to a consensus 136 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: on this stuff. I think a lot of that might 137 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: have to do with the way Kevin Colbert is ego 138 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: lists and uh probably convincing to the coach. But I 139 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm not in there, and hey, maybe 140 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: this has changed a little over the years, especially as 141 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: Kevin grew into that role more strongly and solidly. But 142 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: I still think it's up to the coach to have 143 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: the final say. As you know Bill Cower and Tom 144 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: Donahoe found out when both tendered their resignations and the 145 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: owner uh to accepted a hose the coach one there 146 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: and uh so I still think the coach has all 147 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: the power. But it's just you know, as it had been, 148 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: uh the uh Kevin, Colbert, Omar Khn, and Mike Tomas 149 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: were all on the same line, all reported to Art 150 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: Rooney too. That's how it used to be set up. 151 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: Now I assume it's now Mike Tomlin and Omar Khan, 152 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: But I still I got I bet they side with 153 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: the coach as the power. I know you guys are 154 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: right there, and you know you can disagree with me 155 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: if you want, But I believe it's the coaches still 156 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: has the final say, and they're humble enough to all 157 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: say it was a Steeler Steeler decision, and they probably 158 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: do all come to a consentus by the end of it. Yeah, no, 159 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: I think they do. Of course. The name of the 160 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: book is on the clock, Pittsburgh Steelers behind the scenes 161 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: with the Pittsburgh Steelers at the NFL Draft. This just 162 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: came out what two weeks ago, Jim, Yes, uh, we're 163 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: Where's it available at, uh, well, Barnes and Noble, all 164 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: the bookstores like we just talked about Amazon dot dot com. 165 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: And you know, if you if you wait a few days, 166 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have it up on my website. You can 167 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: get autographed and personalized inscriptions. You can, you know, just 168 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: contact me if there's a contact us, and I'll say, hey, uh, 169 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: this is from my nephew Billy for Christmas. Say to Billy, 170 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, to Billy, you have a nice Christmas and 171 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: you know you're a great Steeler fans something like that, 172 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: and so then you can get it personalized if you 173 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: buy them wexel dot com. Jim. I got a little 174 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: bit of an input on the Bend Draft because the 175 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: year I was with the Browns was Ben's rookie year 176 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: and we were terrible, and the Steelers were fifteen and one, 177 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: and I had grown up a Steeler fan, of course, 178 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: and I had more than one eye on Pittsburgh while 179 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: I was working for the Browns, obviously. And I know 180 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: this is a fact because There's a lot of talk 181 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: why didn't the Browns take Ben keep him in locally 182 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: that he was their highest graded quarterback out of Eli 183 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: and Rivers, and somewhere in my that I have those reports. 184 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: I swiped them when I got fired. But they were 185 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: set on Taylor or Winslow because Butch coached him at 186 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: the You. So if they would have taken the quarterback, 187 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: it would have been been but they were They trusted 188 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: the guys from the You, and they thought Jeff Garcia 189 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: had something left. So that's why he lasted. They thought 190 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: Jeff Garcia had something. That was the worst part of 191 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: the whole equation. Obviously underrated sentence, you know. Ha Manimon 192 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: tells the story of being watching some film for some 193 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: project with Butch Davis. I don't know if it was 194 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: before the season started, but he said, what do you 195 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: think Roethlisberger? And David said, not a fan. So I 196 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: I don't know where that fits in with the consensus 197 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: grade he was higher than Eliah Rivers, so so yeah, 198 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. Uh, you know, Pat, Pat's pretty tuned 199 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: in up there. So but the Browns, you know, that 200 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: would be a good book. We know how that worked out. 201 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: Browns disasters. That would be a best seller. How the 202 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: Browns are screwed up the draft. There's your next book. 203 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: Here's one other quick one. Before I was there, they 204 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: left the night before the draft. We're gonna take Richard 205 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: Seymour with the third pick, great pitt layer. We know 206 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: the top two picks are gonna be. They go up 207 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: to the podium. They take Gerard Warren because Butch had 208 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: recruited him out of Florida, and he went and he 209 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: knew him a little better. Typical Starr. That's how things 210 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: go wrong. I can top that. Rod Woodson felt a 211 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: number ten. The Browns took the great Mike Junkin, Yeah, 212 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: in the top ten, and Kelly Staffer went to the 213 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: belief of the Cardinals. And those were the two. Those 214 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: were the two key picks that helped. Because the Steelers 215 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: wanted Shane Conlin and they were worried about the Browns 216 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: because they wanted linebacker, and the Browns select Mike junk 217 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: So Shan Conlins in play and h it comes to 218 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: Buffalo at eight and Shane Colin went there and the 219 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: Steelers got stuck with Rodwoods. It's funny how those things 220 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: work out, like that. Uh of course you also, you 221 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: know document the Great Draft of seventy four, how how 222 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: that all came to be? Uh, you know, the drafting 223 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: of Terry Bradshaw, the drafting at Joe Green. I mean, 224 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: there's just all kinds of good stuff in there, and 225 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: even even go through some of the uh the imaginations 226 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: of the sixties. Um when when Buddy Parker was here 227 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: just trading away all the Steelers draft capital. Well, yeah, 228 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: you know, Dan Rooney takes over I think was it 229 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: sixty four or sixty five where he finally fired Buddy 230 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: Buddy partner. He finally accepted the resignation. He resigned several 231 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: times in a drunken stupor drunken rage, and the chief 232 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: if always gave it back to him the next day. Well, 233 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: Dan said, no, this guy's got to go. And so 234 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: uh so Dan had the power about sixty five and 235 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: along comes Alreadie Jr. Uh, And he wants He tells 236 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: Mom he wants to join the organization. And Mom tells 237 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: the chief and the chiefs like, oh man, I don't 238 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: know where we can put Already, you know, Buddy Parker 239 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: has traded away the the next thirty picks for the 240 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: rest of the decade. Let's put him in personnel. He 241 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: can't hurt us there. That's five years. Five years later, 242 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: the chief was quoted as saying, it was the smartest 243 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: move I ever made. Already already, you know, he really 244 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: was sibling rivalry. He wanted to show about it. He 245 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: did he and you know, he got Jack Butler involved 246 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: and and blessed. Oh and uh and they really and 247 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: then and then you know the hiring of Bill Nunn. 248 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: And and that's another Cleveland story that it is a positive. 249 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: Back when Cleveland could play in the fifties and sixties, 250 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: they drafted black players. And Build None, who lived in 251 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: the Hill District and wrote was a sports editor for 252 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: for the Courier. He and his friends would drive up 253 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: to Cleveland to watch their favorite team, and they just 254 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: uh never Build None never covered the Steelers. And when 255 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: Dan Rooney opened his sports page of the Courier in 256 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: sixty seven to check out the Black College All Star 257 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: team and see how many he knew, how many his 258 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: scouts were talking about and and how many he remembered 259 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: from the banquet the previous year because they helped Build 260 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: None host the banquet. I don't recognize one of these names. 261 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: What the heck? Why doesn't Build nine come around here? 262 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: He goes down to the lobby to Roosevelt Hotel, tells 263 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: the courier guy who was in, so why doesn't Bill 264 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: Nunne ever come here? And the guys, he thinks you're 265 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: a clown show. He's a Browns fan. He he likes 266 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: to go watch the Browns and they were doing it 267 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: right at the time. H yeah, they said it up 268 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: well even then Leroy Kelly, you know the Browns and 269 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: the sixties were good too. Uh and uh So he 270 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: sets up a meeting and Dan Rooney's asked Bill nine 271 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: and Bill nuns tell them all these truths. You guys 272 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: are a clown show. Buddy Parker's racists. And I think 273 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: Bill Auston is and I can't get into the press 274 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: box every time. And you guys have no clue what 275 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: you're doing. What's what's the point of this? And like 276 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: like George Steinbrenner said to Castanza, hire that guy. So 277 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: so Dan offered to hire a guy who saw all 278 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: the flaws in the Steelers organization and boom, you know 279 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: then Nol comes a year later. So the sixties machinations 280 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: like you said, Dale, are very interesting how the real 281 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: pieces came together before the pieces on the field came together. 282 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: So how it led to the seventies. It was like 283 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: the exactly these great you know, the two Rooney brothers. Uh, 284 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: and then Bill None and then Chuck Noll and Uh. 285 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: You know, No No gives this press conference and you know, 286 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, tells the media how stupid all the perceptions 287 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: are losing has nothing to do with geography. Just stop this. 288 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: I just lost to the Jets in the Super Bowl 289 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: and I've got a terrible headache, and we got a 290 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: draft tomorrow. Where's your draft board? Because it's the d 291 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: was in two days after the Super Bowl. You know that. 292 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: There's a little story in there about how the Steelers 293 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: a guy a bust a second round busting seventy three. 294 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: I think they thought was a really good player. And 295 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: someone told our told told the chief you drafted a 296 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: real stiff. This guy's got a real bad knee, and 297 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: they said, all our doctors love them. They bring him 298 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: in ten farms I think his name was Uh, And 299 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,959 Speaker 1: they bring him in and they look him, Oh, this 300 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: knee's fine. Well. The second play of the first pathless drill, 301 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: the kid kid Humbles done for good. So they said, 302 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: you know, we've got to get these guys checked before 303 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: the draft, and that led to Kin and Lo drafting 304 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: in April. So it was that pick that started all that, 305 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: and it's why we have to wait so long. But yeah, 306 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: so you know, Tuck and all the uh day of 307 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: his press conference introducing him, his coach finds our Art Jr. 308 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: Says take me to your draft board, and he was 309 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised to see that they like Joe Green too, 310 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: because he kept hearing all this stuff about in our 311 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: nation wanted Terry hand Rady. You know, I was going 312 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: to save the quarterbacking day. And uh, they got him 313 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: in the sound and actually they didn't even want him 314 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: in the second round. But the guy they did one, 315 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: it's in the book. He got drafted a pick before. 316 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: So yes, then they took Terry hand Rady and you know, 317 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: the insers erupted enjoy this was the guy they wanted 318 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: with the fourth pick. I don't know if Green is, 319 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: but back in those days too, there was some of 320 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: the I mean, the Chief, God love him, would draft 321 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: some local guys to kind of get some bodies through 322 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: the gates because that was a big concern about making 323 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: being able to make payroll every week. So you had 324 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: you had to have got, you know, guys on the 325 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: field who would that people knew well. And then you know, 326 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: the local fans had heard of the guy from Duquesne 327 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: or the guys from pitt you know, and so that 328 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: that was all part of it. I like to tell 329 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: you you ended the book as well, Jim, with a 330 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: chapter on None himself and just talked to all the 331 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: different people in the organization that uh that worked directly 332 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: with with Bill Nunn and uh. I think my my 333 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: favorite part of that was when you talked about how 334 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: he h you wrote about I don't want to give 335 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: the whole book away, but they took as a group 336 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: that the Scouts took a trip to the Clemente Museum 337 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: and None starts telling you know, that's you know, starts 338 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: talking about some of the pictures there, and the guy 339 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: who is running the Clemente Museum starts to well, that's 340 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: how it's white. Who are you? And he just says, 341 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm not. Just to clear that up a little. I 342 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: think it's talking about Robert how he had been, uh, 343 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: he was upset after the World Series because he finished 344 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: eight in the people voting uh, and and none said yeah, 345 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: that's right, but why and he says, well, who are 346 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: you you know? What do you well? He did this 347 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: and thisten, well who are you on? And so yeah, 348 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: and then the guy all of a sudden who who 349 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't shut up because he knew everything, the museum curator 350 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: or something like that. He knew everything. And he from 351 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: being in uh snob to listening to every word not 352 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: the rest. Just tremendous stuff. Again that that book is 353 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: called On the Clock Pittsburgh Steelers Behind the Scenes with 354 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Steelers at the NFL Draft. As Jim mentioned, 355 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: you can get that on Amazon. You can get that 356 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: at Barnes and Barnes and Noble. Oh yeah, Barnes and Noble. 357 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: You can get it on the jum's website here in 358 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: a couple of days. Makes a great stocking stuff. It 359 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: will fit into stocking. It's it's big enough you can 360 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: kind of squeeze it in there, and it's a it's 361 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: a it's a paperback book, so it's it will bend 362 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: a little bit. Or if you just want to give 363 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: it to your favorite Steeler fan. Um you're looking for 364 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: something to give them. It's it's a nice uh yeah, 365 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: nice gift to give there. And again a lot of 366 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: a lot of great stories, a lot of good stuff 367 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: in there. Jim, We'll let you go. We appreciate you 368 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: stopping by here on the drive. Always a pleasure. And uh, 369 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: what are you right next? Oh man, I've got some 370 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: ideas and I'm I've been asking some questions all these 371 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, the Steelers have these Hall of Honor guys 372 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: in and these alumni in, and I've been having some 373 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: fun talking to a lot a lot of people, and 374 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how it's all gonna work, but I'm 375 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: just sometimes you just gotta do interviews for a while, 376 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, right right? You know, uh, when you 377 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: when you said, Dale, I don't want to give too 378 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: much stuff away, I don't know if you could. There's 379 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: so many nuggets in this book because it's weird how 380 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: you you write it and you reread it three four times, 381 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: and you send it in and you're like, oh, I'm 382 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: so sick of that thing. I bet it it's gonna 383 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: be terrible. And you get it back three months later 384 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: and you read it and you're like, Wow, this works, 385 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: that we do and so uh there's womeny nuggets and 386 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: it's I put it in storytelling forms. So they're all 387 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: good stories. It's not like an encyclopedia facts just spit 388 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: out at you. And so, uh, this was a really 389 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: good interview. I appreciate you guys, Thank you so much 390 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: for having me on. All Right, that was Jim Wexel, 391 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: of course author, and you can check out his work 392 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: on a number of different places. Uh. But uh, you 393 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: got to read the book. Good stuff. Um, I just 394 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. And you know, I told some other 395 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: there are a lot of books that get made about 396 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: the Steelers, obviously, um. And I remember I was still 397 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: working at the Observed Reporter in Washington and one of 398 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: the one of the other books came out in the 399 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: the author of it, UM said, you know, you review 400 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: my book. I said, I'm gonna tell you if I 401 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: review it, I'm gonna be honest about it. I'm gonna 402 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: tell you whether I liked it or whether I didn't. 403 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: And that's what I'm gonna write. And then he didn't 404 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: have any reviews. Boom, that sounds scary. No, No, don't 405 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: do that. I wouldn't I wouldn't tell you that the 406 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: book is any good if it wasn't any good. And 407 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: I found I found this one really interesting, um as 408 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: I did with the Paulo Malo book that Jim wrote 409 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: uh before, but this one, you know, maybe it's because 410 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: I lived the same with Pauly Maldo. I lived a 411 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff and I just enjoyed, you know, 412 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: getting the behind the scenes stories and things of that nature. 413 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: So you obviously saw it from a different angle at 414 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: the time and live and and you know, I saw 415 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: it as a draft nick and as a fan for 416 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: a lot of them, or and a lot of the 417 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,239 Speaker 1: fans out there just we're happy that Woodson ended up 418 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: on the thing. I don't know why that happened. Now 419 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 1: you'll know the why. Now you know how Ben row 420 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: Lilisberger became became a Steeler. Then how that all, how 421 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: that all went down between the Giants and the Chargers 422 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: and the Browns were Yeah, they were part of that 423 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: equation looking for a quarterback to end up. Yeah, same 424 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: thing with a lot of a lot of a lot 425 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: of different things like that. Uh, and that's how that 426 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: all worked out. But check that book out if you 427 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: get a chance. Uh, we're gonna take another break. He 428 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: is Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lally. You're listening to 429 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: the Drive here on Steelers Nation Radio and UM you 430 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: could subscribe to the Mike Tomlin Game Day podcast, the Steelers. 431 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: Steelers Digest editor Bob Blabriola talks with head coach Mike 432 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 1: Tomlin about the upcoming game. New episodes drup every game day. 433 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: They're available on the Steelers Mobile app, the I Heart 434 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: Radio app, and wherever you get your podcasts. We're gonna 435 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: take a break. When we come back, it's time for 436 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: the Fantasy Football Focus. We'll do that right after this