WEBVTT - Inception 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.760 Hello, listeners, It's Caitlin and Jamie from the future. Sure, 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.520 and we're just popping in with a note about this episode, 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:17.040 which is that we recorded and released it before Elliott 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.680 Page came out as a trans man. So if you 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.560 listen to the episode in the present day, it may 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:28.760 sound like we are misgendering Elliott and dead naming them. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.200 So that might seem kind of jarring and careless, but again, 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.440 it's just that we were not to know at the 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:40.800 time of this episode's recording. Yeah, that is just something 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:42.440 we want to make you aware of. 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.320 If we don't want to jump scare jump scare you 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.280 with it. So yeah, because of when this episode was recorded, 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.800 we are unvirtually using a dead name because we did 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:57.640 not yet know. And with that, here's the episode on 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:58.720 the Big Podcast. 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.279 The questions asked if movies have women and them, are 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:05.039 all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:10.319 have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and best start changing 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:11.920 it with the Bechdel cast. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:20.720 Hey, Caitln, Yes, Jamie BA, do you ever think well 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.480 that we might not be podcasting at all? 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:27.760 Are we in a dream? 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:28.080 Bra? 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.480 And then we like look and then you look over, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.920 like your shoulder all sexy, and you're like, it's a dream, 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:45.000 and then I go, no B. And that's basically the movie. Folks, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:51.000 that's the whole more or less. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.440 All due respect to Hans Zimmer This like you have 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.320 to imagine. Christopher Nolan was like, I just want the 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:04.960 soundtrack to sound like a large electronic fart because it's 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:11.200 so like, it's just it's overwhelming. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:17.400 Yes, this is the Bechdel Cast, in which, well, hello, 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:26.440 I'm Caitlin, I'm Jamie, and we examine movies through an 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:28.840 intersectional feminist lens with. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.800 As little sound effects as possible. We pull from. We 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.320 use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion, 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:42.440 pulling from a media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.680 sometimes referred to as the Bechdel Wallace test, that requires, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:50.919 for our purposes, that two people love a marginalized gender 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.560 talk about something with each other. They also have to 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.919 have names, and they talk about something that's other than 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:01.960 a sisman for more than two lines of dialogue. I 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.320 have to be honest, Okay, we're also covering inception today. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.280 I was so, I was like, it's probably a no 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.880 for this one, but I was surprised. 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.560 But well, yeah, well yeah, I guess it's it's to 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.040 all of our to all of our listeners who aren't 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.320 actually listeners, who think we just talk about whether it 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.240 passes the Bechdel test or not, that's incorrect. 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:27.480 But I was pleasantly surprised. I'm like, does Ellen Page 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.880 talk to Maryan Cotyard at any time? 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:31.840 The answer? 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.880 But then I also have I have that answer, but 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.920 then I also have a counter argument. That's a whole thing. 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:39.680 Oh sure, yeah, same. 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.680 We're talking about inception today. We are okay, okay, I'm 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:44.880 wondering if we hit on the same thing. I'm just 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.040 like getting a big Jumanji energy from all of this. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:48.960 But yeah, Jumanji, the new one. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.080 Wait, in what way? What do you mean in the 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:51.560 way that we. 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.720 Had that discussion about Jack Black and Jumanji, I have 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:01.200 sort of a similar feeling about marrying Coatillard an inception. 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:06.520 On it, right, because her character is actually, oh, it's 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:07.480 a projection. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.000 Of a man. Yeah, Like, I don't know if that 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.760 counts as a female character because he says to her like, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.160 you're not you, You're me. So I'm like, okay, it 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.480 seems like it's been confirmed in text very I mean, 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.960 this is this is like I was really I don't know, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:24.440 I had to go on a walk. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.320 Well also, I mean, and we'll talk about this, but like, 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:32.680 how little does he think of his wife? His wife 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:36.400 if his projections of her behave the way that she 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.679 does because she's like the villain of the movie. Anyway, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:41.600 we'll talk about it. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.320 She is, Yeah, she's a horror and then at the 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.560 end he kind of like ret console thing. He's like, yeah, 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:52.720 I'm kind of really remembering you falsely and exclusively at 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.880 your worst. So right, that's kind of on me. And 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.680 you're like, yeah, I would say that that is definitely 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.680 on you. But don't worry. Ellen Page is there to 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.839 just constantly be like you're great. Oh. And that's her character, 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.400 h the redeemer and the projection. This is what we 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.280 have to work with with inception people. This is what 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.760 we have to work with. Yes, So what is your 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:21.360 experience with inception, Caitlin? 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:26.760 I saw it in theaters in twenty ten. I think, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:31.719 like many people quite enjoyed it. It was hailed as 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:36.400 being you know, one of the smartest and most profound 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.800 movies of the decade for a while, and I was 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.840 admittedly fully on board that ship for quite some time. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.599 And then I don't remember exactly when this happened, but 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:49.719 I felt like there was some kind of cultural shift 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.320 where a lot of people were like, you know what, 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.120 maybe Exception isn't as awesome and as smart as we 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.240 thought it was. Maybe it's actually kind of silly. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.200 Yeah. And then I also midway through the decade, I 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.400 feel like there was kind of this mass. I wonder 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.799 if it was like when it hits streaming or something, 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.080 but there was kind of, yeah, like a mass, like 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.600 hold on, I just rewatched Inception for the first time 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.760 since twenty ten, and it's silly, right. 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.680 And I also, you know, boarded that ship for a while. 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.640 But I have then jumped on These are deliberate Titanic references. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:27.920 I have jumped off. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.200 Of that ho k. 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.240 I have jumped off of that door and climbed back 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.640 onto the sinking Titanic of Inception being a good movie. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.640 And I am firmly in that camp again. And when 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:49.159 I say that it is extremely pretentious, it is so 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:50.800 far up its own ass. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.040 But it's like at some point in like I feel 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:58.080 like not to movie blame, but at this point, if 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.920 you're going to a Christopher Nolan moved and leaving like 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.400 that was so pretentious. It's like, at this point he's 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.800 made eleven movies. You gotta if you're showing up, you 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.000 gotta be ready for a pretentious thing to happen. Like 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:15.560 It's true, there's no I would argue, there's really no 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.240 excuse at this point to not know that Christopher Nolan 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.480 makes some of the most pretentious stuff in the game. 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.720 I feel like we've been on kind of a similar 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.360 ish journey with it where I saw it. This movie 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.840 came out, they I think, I don't know, they're either 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.760 like the year Yeah, I guess it would be like 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.320 shortly before I went to college, because imagine going to 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.840 film school right after this movie came out, like oh, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:46.400 just droves of eighteen year old boys that are just 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:51.000 like I'm gonna make my inception and like just I 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.960 mean students of all genders. But you know, I would 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.480 I would argue a male heavy group that were just like, 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:01.440 oh my god, like just just really very into inception. 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.400 I definitely liked it. I thought it was really smart. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.680 I saw it in three D and I got a 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.360 headache the first time, so then I had to see 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.200 it a second time in two D and I really 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.160 liked it that the second time. The first time, I 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.960 was like, I have a migraine, but I really liked it. 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.840 And then, similar to you, I saw it kind of 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.880 midway through the decade after, and then I think I 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.679 had soured to it because I was in film school 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.760 when all the eighteen year old boys were really frothing 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.160 at the mouth regarding Christopher Nolan sure, and I didn't 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.200 love that. So I think I soured towards it kind 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.320 of early, but then every and then I realized. And 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.760 then I think midway through the decade, I'm like, this 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.240 movie is such a waste of Mary and Cootyard because 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.680 I saw Levianne Rose, which she won her Oscar for, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.800 and I was like, oh my god, she is so talented. 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.240 How did Christopher Nolan like hire her after she like 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.040 did a performance like that and then gave her this role. 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:03.120 But in any case, rewatching it, I watched it a 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.400 month ago before we decided we were doing this just 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:10.120 for fun, and it's I guess it's it's a variation 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.720 on a romp. It's a pretentious romp. Yes, I think 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:15.800 it's like a very heady romp. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.440 Yes, I would agree with that. It's extremely watchable. It 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.319 is too long for shorts two and a half hours, 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:27.840 and that's just offensive. But I I do really appreciate 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:32.000 the world building as far as like a script goes. 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.480 It's a pretty you know, it's potentially confusing the whole 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:40.720 dream within a dream, million layers of dreams thing, you know. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:41.960 I I don't know. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.360 I also appreciate it, like you can enjoy this. I 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.920 can say from personal experience, you can enjoy this movie 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:53.280 without fully understanding exactly what's going on, yes, and still 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.400 just be like, Okay, that could have been a plot hole. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.840 I could have missed something, but like, well, I guess 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:03.240 they're all wearing white now like that. I don't know 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.160 why that reveal has always made laugh when they cut 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.559 to like everyone's in the snow and everyone's wearing white, 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:11.760 and its just like watching it this time, I'm like, 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:16.120 I feel like Kanye West's like Property in Wyoming is 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.760 like this where everyone's just like wearing the same outfit 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.280 and it's huge and kind of scary. Yeah, but it's 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.600 just like, I don't know, it's so over the top. 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.480 I appreciate. I really like the practical effects in this movie. 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:30.480 Great practical effects. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.360 I love the cast, except for Joseph Gordon Levitt. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.120 Oh no, I like him. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.400 I think I see. I think that what has aged 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:43.240 the worst about this movie are it's it's treatment of 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:48.880 gender and casting Joseph Gordon Levitt in a large role. 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:50.480 I'm just kind of done with him. I don't know 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.559 what it was that turned me on Joseph Gordon Levitt, 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.080 but I'm like, he was in everything for five years 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.760 and then he kind of was like where'd he go? 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.680 But then I was like, I guess I just haven't 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.440 been I haven't asked myself that question. But he was 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.440 in everything. He was in every genre, and he was 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.000 so chatty, and I was just like, I need a break. 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:16.640 I understand that. Yeah. I mean to me, there's there's 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.280 a lot to like about this movie in terms of 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.920 pure entertainment value. I'm not watching it because I'm like, 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.280 I want to see strong representation of women because you 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.520 certainly won't find that no here, But. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.480 But I do I love that. Do you remember what 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.480 a big deal it was that Ellen Page was in 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.040 this movie. This was like kind of Ellen Page's like 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.800 cinematic glow up, like she'd never been in like a 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.320 gigantic movie like this before. I remember being really excited 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:45.840 about that. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:50.520 Right because this was post Juno, Right. But Juna wasn't 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.320 like a huge blockbuster hit kind of thing. 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.000 Right, she She was kind of an indie darling for 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.760 a long time, and then this was kind of her 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.280 and I guess kind of for Mary and KOTR two 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.720 in terms of like big American movies, right, this was 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:11.880 her like huge spotlight too, So that's at least good. Yeah, 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:17.920 I don't I'm reaching, but I still enjoy watching it. Yeah, 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.120 even when I had kind of soured on it, I 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.240 still enjoyed watching it, I have to admit so. And 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.480 I honestly I like, Okay, just to quickly address right 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.520 at the top, all of the ichy news items being 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:35.080 bandied about about Christopher Nolan just about the way he 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:39.040 treats his workers sounds absolutely atrocious. Did you see that 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.440 news item that was like Christopher Nolan tells his employees 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.400 they're not allowed to sit down for thirteen hours, And 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.080 you're like, well, that's certainly uneth right, like he has 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.240 a and I feel like this kind of even before 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.479 we talk about the movie, this is such a problem 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:01.600 with I would say, largely male outeur directors, where while 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.640 it is genuinely cool and amazing, like we were just saying, 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.560 to kind of see a person with a vision that 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.880 has carte blanche in terms of money, like that very 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.240 rarely happens, but when it does, it always happens to 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.120 white men. But like yep, in any case. But the 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.480 fact that on top of that, it's just like every 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.480 with little exception, like all the stories you hear about 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:28.040 these types of directors, they're just ego tripping, you know, 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.760 over their own ego dick or whatever, Like it's just it. 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.559 It is really frustrating to hear. And also the fact 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.080 that he was so he was like, we have to 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.040 release Tenet in the middle of a pandemic. I don't care. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.319 I have no regard for human life, which you already 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.960 made clear by the fact that his employees aren't allowed 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.960 to sit down, which is unethical, which is ablest, which 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.080 is on and on and on big systemic issues with 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:57.319 the film industry. So we're not I think we've made 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.240 this clear in our dark Night episode is well, we 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.440 are not vouching for Christopher Nolan. He sounds like a 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.960 complete asshole, right, I just and and it, and I'm 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.959 just like, God, damn it, why are the movies fun? 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:17.559 You know, it's very frustrating. His movies are very I'm excited. 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.880 To see Tenant, so am I see it? I pissed off. 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.160 I'm so annoyed. I'm like, oh, I love John David Washington, 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.240 and I want to see Kenneth Bronna play a Russian villain, Like, 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.400 oh my ah, yeah, yeah, it sounds fun. 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:34.440 I'll see it. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.640 I just it pisses me off. It's like you hate 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.840 to see it, but then also in your heart of heart, 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.080 you kind of love to see it. And I really 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:50.080 hope that Warner Brothers starts to force him to treat 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.840 his employees ethically. You know, Yes, I have infinite trust 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.320 of a large corporation like Warner Brothers. I'm sure they'll 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.320 do the right thing. Oh, of course, one when haven't 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.720 they don't. Yeah, don't check the receipts on that one. 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:09.920 In any case, Fuck Christopher Nolan. But unfortunately we enjoy 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:11.040 watching his movies. 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.240 Yeah, his sensibilities are like extremely in my wheelhouse because 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.840 he's usually doing yuh. I mean this movie is a 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:24.040 like action sci fi heist movie, which is like extremely 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:25.600 like up my Alley. 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:27.840 I was reading about and I was just like, oh, 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.400 because I mean, I feel like he has criticized pretty 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.320 frequently for like how sometimes people think his movie the 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.920 themes of his movies are like a bit too similar. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.320 And I think that the way he treats gender in 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:46.120 his movies, there's a lot of overlapping problems, just a 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.120 real fixation on advancing the plot by killing off sis 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.840 white women. Yes, but in any case, well, I don't 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:55.680 even remember what point I was arriving at. I just 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:01.400 got mad at him again. I feel like I feel 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.760 like a lot of people were not alone in having 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.520 a complicated relationship with the works of Christopher Nolan. Sure, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.400 and I wonder if it's generational. I want I wouldn't 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.240 be surprised if the generation after us is sort of 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.120 not in the way that we're like, oh, fuck Stanley Kubrick. 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.200 We have no sentimental attachment to him. Where I feel 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.640 like it's possible that some of our attachment to Christopher 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:24.480 Nolan is sentimental. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.560 I don't know that could be nostalgia is a real emotion, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:28.479 as it turns. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.840 Out, Yeah, god damn it. 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.200 Well should I try to recap this movie? 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:44.080 Yeah? I have fun, I'll yeah, I'll yeah. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:45.240 Please do the sound effects. 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:50.680 I'll be the top. H did you used to have 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.800 I Okay, I this is really embarrassing. But I don't know, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.840 especially right after I watch a movie, I'm really easily 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.560 like taken in by it. Sure, because it turns out 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.280 media is influential to your life. But I did, like 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.120 for like a week, just a week, but I did 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.320 like carry around a little totem with me for like 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.479 a week after I saw this movie. I'm like, I 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:21.280 had is that horrible? That's really embarrassing, only because I 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.640 would never expect you to do something like that, especially 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.800 for a movie like Inception. I carried around dice for 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:33.040 a week. I carried on It was Ellen Page that 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.920 had the dice. I had dice. I'm like, yeah, I 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:35.960 should carry out dice. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:41.399 It was uh, it was Joseph Gordon Lovett. 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.200 Well that makes sense because when this movie came out, 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:49.840 I was so I was like, Joseph Gordon Levitt, genius, sexy, sensitive. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:51.800 Do you remember he used to have that website called 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:53.440 hit Record. Joe. 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.400 Yeah, I had like the DVDs of that me too. 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.200 I was just I don't know, Joseph Gordon Levity. I 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.359 think it's I'm probably a wonderful person, but like he's 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.679 just so corny. I don't know. Anyways, I carried around 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.600 the dice and that's on me. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.080 That's incredible. I didn't do that. But as you recall, 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.720 I used to I, well, I still have the ring 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.760 from Lord of the Rings on a necklace that I 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.719 only ever wore as I when I was cause playing 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.120 as Frodo, which I did do multiple times. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.480 One of the most iconic pictures of you of all time, 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.280 because you're selling it and you're so. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:39.840 Happy I'm fully in character. Yes, thank you so much. Okay, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.440 so the recap of Inception. Okay, this is a two 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.960 and a half hour movie and the plot is very complicated, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.960 so I did my best to simplify it as much 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.280 as possible. There's parts that I kind of gloss over 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:54.960 a lot. So if you really want to know what 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.520 the movie's about, just watch it. But here we go. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.960 Yeah, it's on Amazon on Prime if you're you know, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.600 also in Jeff Bezos his pocket because no ethical consumption. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:07.680 It's there indeed. 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:13.280 Okay, so we open on Leonardo DiCaprio in the water, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.360 and we're like, what is this the end of Titanic? 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.280 I have found Okay, this is a really early point 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.680 to interrupt. But I I had a thought and when 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.879 I consulted the one other person I've seen in the 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.560 past six months, Isaac, I was like, I feel like 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.760 Leonardo DiCaprio in his career is very often on the 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.439 beach or in a body of water, fully clothed. It 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.440 happens a lot, a lot. 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.119 He's well, he's literally in a movie called The Beach. 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:46.840 But I feel like, I don't I don't. 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:48.800 Know, We're just closed for a lot of the movie. 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.320 Yeah, yeah, I feel like he's. 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.960 Fully clothed in the water. In Titanic, he is in 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:56.960 a body of water at some point during a shutter 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:02.000 island clothed, clothed in the water. An inception. What is 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:03.920 it with this guy and being clothed in the water. 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:05.320 Just a fun movie trend. 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:06.879 Wow, I'll keep my eye on that. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.800 Yeah, everyone in the comments, shout out your favorite Leonardo 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.200 DiCaprio clothed in a body of water. I guess in 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.800 The Revenant, he's clothed in the snow, and also The 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:23.840 Great Godsby dies in the pool fully clothed. He's clothed 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:29.439 in water all the time. Okay, it's a trope, a 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:33.800 trope specific to one actor that has no implications of anything. 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.960 Unlike most tropes, this trump is meaningless and I don't 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:39.800 know why it is so. 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.360 Or does it have meaning? Jamie Will you just have 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.040 to discover the meaning? 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.280 Is he in the water in Gilbert Grape? I'm just like, 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.480 maybe it's every he is water? 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.520 Well, he's not clothed, but in He's there's a scene 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:55.920 where he gets left in the tub overnight and he's 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.120 and he's really cold, but he's naked. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.120 Okay, I guess that's an out. 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:02.199 So does it count. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:07.119 Well, it's maybe someone saw that movie and they're like, 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.080 but what if he was fully clothed, and then that 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.680 it's just the rest of his career. I don't know. 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:15.560 I don't know what. 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.800 Maybe it's in his contract. He's like, in every movie 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:23.520 I'm in, you are contractually obligated to write a scene 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:28.280 in which I am in. What Because there's another scene 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.359 where he gets dunked in the tub in inception, and 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.639 he is fully closed, fully closed in the beginning. 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.479 It's not just like, oh, a T shirt and shorts. 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.919 It's like he has like layers on in all of 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:44.520 these movies. He's like fully dulled up, fully clothed. Underwater 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.879 happens to him constantly. I couldn't stop thinking about it. Okay, 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.480 that's all I had to say. Does he go into 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:54.280 a body of water in Wolf of Wall Street? 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:57.959 I have to imagine, Well, he's on a yacht at 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.800 one point. Yeah, it's just probably swimming pools. 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.320 I'm gonna try to make a remember, I'm gonna try 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.679 to make a gallery for our instagram of well, you know, 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:12.120 the DiCaprio underwater in clothes. It's just sy is. 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.280 He in water in like Gangs of New York. 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:16.760 Well, I still haven't seen that. I know. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.639 People love it. It's a slog. I'll tell you what, really. 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:22.640 Oh I thought it was a wroth. I was wrong. 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:24.520 Oh no, I'm thinking of catch me if you can. 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:26.200 People love catch me if you can? 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:28.760 Oh yeah, I do like can catch me if you 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:29.720 can is a romp. 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.639 Because you go on underwater in that one. 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:34.360 You know what, I would not be surprised at all. 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:36.760 I don't remember if he does or not, but it 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:39.399 seems very possible in that movie. 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:42.320 This is mind blowing to me. This is I don't know. 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.119 I'll source some images, post it to our Instagram be 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:50.560 like any any film critics, have something to weigh in 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:54.080 with here, it's I feel like the other underwater trope 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.879 is like a white girl in a teen movie going 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:02.399 underwater in a pool to a flecked on her changing life, 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:07.600 which is a more gendered trope with implications, whereas this 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:10.480 is just chaos. I don't know why it happens. 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.480 Well, I think we should start a new podcast about it. 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.720 Okay, I agree, it's. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:23.520 beIN Off Okay, so okay, Lee Leo. His character's name 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:27.639 is Cobb. He is in the business of extracting information 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:32.680 from people's minds yep, by way of infiltrating their dreams. 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:37.080 So he and Arthur that's Joseph Gordon Lovitt are trying 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:42.120 to extract something from mister Sido, whose name is also 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:46.200 pronounced mister Sato sometimes, so I don't know which one 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:48.480 it is because the characters say it differently. 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:54.240 There's no continuity. The character never corrects. We just don't know. 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:55.480 It's annoying. 0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:59.600 Yes, and he is played by Ken Watanabe. 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.080 And Icon character actor love him. 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:06.440 Yes. Same. So they're trying to extract something from him 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.280 and they are inside of his dream in the beginning 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:13.359 of the movie. Also in this dream is Mal played 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:15.040 by Marion Cotillard. 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.320 Which did you did you learn that that French? Okay, 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:22.320 this is like peek Christopher Nolan, But Mal is French 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:27.359 for bad or evil? If you want to finish how 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:33.480 simplistically Christopher Nolan views gender, He's like, okay, woman, women, women, women, bad, 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.560 I'm getting bad, I'm getting bad. Okay, we can't just 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:39.159 name her bad. I guess we'll have to make it 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:42.040 French like yike. 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:48.600 Yes. So Mal is Cobbs, his wife, and she has 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.800 a habit of popping up in dreams throughout the movie, 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.199 and we will later find out why exactly. So it 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.240 turns out that mister Sido knows that he's asleep and 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.359 that they're all in his dream. But wait a minute, 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:03.960 they're still in a dream. They're in a dream within 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:09.680 a dream, and now he's impressed and they all wake 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:14.080 up from the various levels of this opening dream and 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:17.280 Saido is like, Okay, I want you to do an inception. 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:22.080 Rather than extracting something from someone's mind, he wants an 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:26.399 idea to be planted in someone else's mind, and Arthur's like, 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.639 that's not possible, but Cobb is like, actually it is, 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:33.080 but it's really hard. 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:40.160 Fortunately, mister DiCaprio, mister clothe underwater himself has the goods. 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:44.760 Yes, so he's like, it's possible. It's really hard. You 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:48.600 just have to go really deep into a person's mind. 0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:51.879 And he's reluctant to do it, but Saido is like, 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.320 if you do this for me, I will make it 0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:58.480 so you can return to the US, because Cobb has 0:25:58.560 --> 0:26:02.000 two young children who he can't go home to. But 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:06.000 we also don't know why yet exactly. So the idea 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:08.439 that Sido wants planted is in the mind of the 0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.600 son of Sido's main competitor. He owns some kind of 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:14.120 energy conglomeratet. 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:16.000 It's all vaguely evil. 0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:20.040 Yeah, yeah, Sido wants the son to walk away from 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:22.920 his inheritance to break up the empire. And I don't 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:27.240 know if that's because he's basically trying to avoid his 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:30.720 competitor from establishing a monopoly. And I'm like, okay, well, 0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:33.159 that's good, like monopoly shouldn't exist, but I feel like 0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:37.200 it's because he wants to have the monopoly instead. 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:40.320 I think that's kind of my question is as I 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:42.320 was at first, I'm like, oh, this is there's a 0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:45.199 really fun, like leftist way to look at this. But 0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:46.720 then the more I thought about it, I'm like, actually, 0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:48.800 I don't think that that is true. It seems like 0:26:48.840 --> 0:26:51.520 the reason they want the monopoly broken up are also 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:57.800 capitalistic and pretty selfish. Uh huh, so zero out of 0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:01.520 ten on that end, Yeah, because I was like, oh, 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:03.879 I forgot this kind of angle of how do you 0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:08.320 is it silly and Murphy? I think it's Killian Killian Murphy, 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:12.320 but I'm not sure who has beautiful eyes. I think 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.280 every time I see this movie like wow. And then 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:18.960 also his whole thing is ultimately movies are about fathers 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:22.320 and sons, which is just like, all right, I guess 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:25.760 we're doing this again, right in any case, Yeah, I 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:29.200 was thinking about that, and I don't think it's actually 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:31.240 I mean, it's kind of like they're sort of doing 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:33.840 the right thing, but it's not for the right reasons. 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:38.840 So confusing, not enough information, But what seems to be 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:44.000 there is not good. Okay. So now Cobb and Arthur 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:48.480 have to find a new architect, basically someone who creates 0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.240 the worlds of the dreams that they go into. So 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:57.240 they recruit Arianne, which is Ellen Page's character, and they 0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.040 show her the Ropes, and we learn that time and 0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:04.920 dream world moves more quickly or more slowly. I don't Basically, 0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:07.920 five minutes in the real world gets you one hour 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:11.359 in dream world, right, And then we also learn about totems, 0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:15.560 which are the little objects that help these people distinguish 0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:22.119 dreams from reality. They recruit Emes aka Tom Hardy to 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:26.600 be a forger basically someone who impersonates other people within dreams. 0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:30.600 And then they also recruit a chemist named Yusuf to 0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:33.440 create sedatives to keep people asleep and let them go 0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:34.680 deep enough. 0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:36.760 Who is the scientist from Avatar? 0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:39.480 Is he? I don't remember? 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:42.520 Yes? Okay, yes, I went deep down the rabbit hole 0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:44.200 because I'm like, I like this character, director, where have 0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:46.880 I seen him before? And I'm like Avatar? And then 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:50.880 it was like, what has he done since inception? Literally Avatars? 0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:54.560 So I think he's just been like trapped in New 0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:58.120 Zealand for ten years? Yeah, because Avatar. 0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:01.280 Well, James Cameron will do that. Yeah, So his participation 0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:03.560 in the story is necessary because they need these powerful 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:07.560 sedatives because for inception, you need to go down, like 0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:09.960 Cobb is like, we have to go down three levels 0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:13.320 a dream within a dream within a dream. We also 0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:18.600 learn that mal is actually dead, and. 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:20.720 We're like, well, it's the Christopher Nolan movie. I guess 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:22.600 that stands to reason. 0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:26.240 That tracks so whenever we see her in any dreams, 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:29.960 she is just Cobb's projection of her. And we find 0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:32.040 out the reason that he can't go home and see 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:35.920 his kids is that people think that Cobb killed her. 0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:41.840 So they start planning the infiltration. There's this the kick 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:43.360 that they have to synchronize. 0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:47.280 I'm sing something the kick right, And they. 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:48.960 Figure out if they get stuck in the third level 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:51.680 of the dream, it might be like ten or more 0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:54.280 years that they're trapped, so they have to like make 0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:58.040 sure that that doesn't happen. And the time comes to 0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:03.080 sneak into kill Murphy's dream. His name is mister Fisher. 0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:08.000 They're on a long flight from Sydney to la That's 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:11.280 when they go in. They hack into his brain. 0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:15.640 But there's not a Matthew Lillard to be found. 0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:23.800 Where is Matthew Lillard in Hackers in this movie? Missed opportunity. 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:26.160 So they get into the first level of the dream. 0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:30.400 They have a rough start, Cobb's subconscious projections keep interfering, 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:33.400 Sido gets shot. You know, they're trying to get a 0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:36.520 combination from Fisher. All this stuff I'm going to kind 0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:39.120 of gloss over. They get into the next level the 0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:42.400 dream within a dream, Cobb tells Fisher that he's like, 0:30:42.560 --> 0:30:46.280 by the way, you're in a dream spoiler, and he 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:50.320 convinces him that Fisher's uncle Peter is conspiring against him, 0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:54.560 and convinces Fisher to go into the next level of 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:58.680 the dream with them, which ends up being this kind 0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:01.200 of remote fortress in the snowy mountains. 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:05.240 Right, this is like the everyone is wearing matching outfits 0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:09.800 and has a machine gun. Question mark, Right, yeah, you're 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:11.320 just like, all right, I guess we're here. 0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:16.200 Sure, chaos is happening all around them and in on 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:19.600 the other levels of the dream. In the third level, 0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:24.160 just as Fisher is about to open a safe, which 0:31:24.200 --> 0:31:28.640 will effectively be the moment of inception, mal comes in 0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:33.320 and shoots Fisher, which means that Cobb and Ariadne Ariadney 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:34.800 have to is that how you say your name? 0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:38.760 No idea again, I think different characters say it differently. 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:41.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, because like at one point, Michael Kine's 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.800 like Ariadney except in a British accent. 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:46.760 Right, And you're like, is it just because he's British? 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:49.920 I don't know, not sure. I'm like, stop choosing these 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:52.239 names if you're not going to tell your actors how 0:31:52.240 --> 0:31:55.560 to pronounce them, right, Christopher Nolan, it's like, literally, stat 0:31:55.560 --> 0:31:59.200 like you've made five hundred movies, tell your cast how 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:00.440 to pronounce the name. 0:32:01.080 --> 0:32:06.720 Yep, oh, well shouldn't be that hard and yet okay, 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:09.440 So she and Cobb have to go down to yet 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:13.600 another layer of the dream I think, so that they 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:15.520 can keep going and get the job done. So now 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:18.320 that they're in like the fourth layer of dream world, 0:32:19.040 --> 0:32:22.040 and when they're down there, Cobb reveals that it was 0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:27.560 him who incepted mal with the idea that maybe reality 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:33.120 isn't reality, and that's why she killed herself, because that's 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:38.520 something we learn happened. But now he's finally able to 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:42.640 let go of the guilt, and he stays behind to 0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:46.360 find Sido, who has died in dream world and will 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:50.280 be stuck in limbo, so Cob finds him, which is 0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:53.440 the scene that the movie opens on, and then everyone 0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:55.760 you know wakes up from the various levels of the dream. 0:32:56.240 --> 0:33:00.200 We get back to reality on the plane, Fisher has 0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:03.520 been successfully incepted, and then everyone gives each other a 0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:04.480 meaningful look. 0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:09.640 It really oh my god. The Hans Zimmer is blasting that. 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:12.320 Everyone's just like, we did it. We did it. We 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:14.080 did it. We did it, we did it, we did it. 0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:17.760 Ellen Page is like I forgive you, and you're like why. 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:23.000 Right Then Cobb returned home to see his children, but 0:33:23.080 --> 0:33:27.640 the ending is left ambiguous because of the spinning top. 0:33:27.760 --> 0:33:30.000 We don't know if he's in a dream or the 0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:33.600 real world. And it's like, Christopher Nolan, just let us 0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:36.080 see the top fall over, you coward. 0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:39.920 That's no, I think that. That's like, I was like, 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:44.000 that's pretty cool. That is never not the coolest choice 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:47.320 to me. I'm like, I hate no. I hate it 0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:50.719 because your team rose went to sleep and it's like, 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:55.160 you know, I like that. They don't tell you and 0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:58.160 it's a little wobbly and you're like oh oh oh, like, 0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:02.480 oh my god, it's fun. You can argue about it 0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:05.800 with your friends on the way home. It's a movie 0:34:06.360 --> 0:34:10.479 fun whatever. Like what am I just saying? 0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:14.520 I think, Yeah, why are you trying to die on 0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:15.040 this hill? 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:18.279 No idea? I retract dying on this hill. 0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:22.400 Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll come 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:26.080 right back to discuss. 0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:39.719 Oh, Christopher Nolan, where do we? I mean, Okay, I 0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:43.680 have a really quick rundown. I'm trying to I'm struggling 0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:47.279 to remember exactly how much of this talk we have 0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:51.200 sort of had to an extent in our Dark Night episode, 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:54.120 but I just wanted to give a quick rundown of 0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:58.920 I feel like it is semi common knowledge among movie 0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:04.160 lovers ficionados, if you will, that Christopher Nolan tends to 0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:10.040 kill off female characters fridging we call it killing off 0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:13.480 a female character, usually the significant other of the main 0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:17.040 male protagonists, in order to advance the plot in a 0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:22.440 rather lazy sexist way. I think Christopher Nolan is one 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:27.680 of the foremost offenders of this trope in modern movies. 0:35:28.320 --> 0:35:31.920 I will at very least say that it appears that 0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:35.400 he has at least I mean it took him a 0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:39.520 long time, but it seems like someone has brought this 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:42.440 to his attention at some point, because we have at 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:45.560 this as of this recording, we have not seen tenet. 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:49.640 But it seems like at least in his past two movies, 0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:53.399 he has not fridged female characters. An Interstellar, I don't 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.839 believe it happens. And then there's like a dead there's 0:35:56.880 --> 0:35:59.799 a dead wife, but her death is an integral to 0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:05.720 the plot. And then what Dunkirk aka Boy Island has 0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:08.279 zero women? So I think he kind of gets off 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:11.480 on a technicality by not including women at all, right, 0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:16.080 But just a quick rundown of how this very and 0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:18.600 I think it ties into a lot of how much 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:22.600 Christopher Nolan pulls from film noir and especially in this 0:36:22.719 --> 0:36:26.360 movie the fem fetal tropes. Oh yeah, that he is 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:32.080 referencing without building on at all. But how dead hot 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:38.520 cis white hetero woman factors into his plots. It's remarkable. Okay, 0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:41.600 So apparently his first feature, which I've never seen, called 0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:46.920 following has a beautiful dead girl is the twist at 0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:49.080 the end. There's a twist at the end, spoiler, and 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.839 it's a dead white girl. Okay, momenta, Okay, So I'm 0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:56.840 pulling here from a blog post from overthinking it dot Com, 0:36:56.880 --> 0:37:01.719 where they very succinctly put this so Memento. A man 0:37:01.760 --> 0:37:04.719 with amnesia is obsessed with finding the killer of his 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.759 beautiful wife. Yes insomnia. A detective plays a cat and 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:11.800 mouse game with the killer of a beautiful young girl. 0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:15.640 The Prestige. A magician engages in a bitter rivalry with 0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:18.160 a former friend he blames for the death of his 0:37:18.360 --> 0:37:22.440 beautiful wife. The Dark Knight. The lives of a masked 0:37:22.520 --> 0:37:26.759 vigilante and a district attorney are shattered when the beautiful 0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:30.839 woman they both love is killed. Inception. A dream thief 0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:33.880 struggles with the crushing guilt of his wife taking her 0:37:33.920 --> 0:37:37.120 own life. And that gets us up to so at 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:41.000 this point, like this is like sixth or seventh time 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:46.279 that Christopher Nolan has done this exact thing. Yes, I 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:49.880 am all for a director, Like I don't really have 0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:53.240 an issue with Like I appreciate that Christopher Nolan seems 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:55.960 to be really interested in the concept of time and 0:37:56.040 --> 0:38:00.600 time manipulation. That's his thing, not a problem. But he 0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:06.160 dismisses female characters the same way every time. It's like, 0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:10.200 not just insensitive, it's also stunningly lazy. 0:38:10.800 --> 0:38:14.040 It's like get some new material, bro, like write a 0:38:14.360 --> 0:38:15.120 new premise. 0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:20.720 Seriously, if I was Chris, I know Christopher Nolan's his wife, 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:25.000 Emma Thomas, is a producer on I think maybe every 0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:27.239 single one of his movies. If I were her, I 0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:31.440 would just be so nervous. I'm just like, my husband 0:38:31.480 --> 0:38:35.520 seems really like fixated on a wife being dead in 0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:38.680 order to move on with their life. Like, yeah, what 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.239 is he trying to tell me? Also, this is his 0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:44.360 brother writes some of the movies too, So Jonathan Nolan 0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:47.840 is also at fault here, sure, yes, for being obsessed 0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:50.040 with dead white ladies. I just think it's it's just 0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:53.520 so strange. And this movie, I think is This and 0:38:53.560 --> 0:38:56.279 Memento for Me are tied with them for the most 0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:58.759 egregious examples of this. 0:38:59.360 --> 0:39:03.080 But then the p Yeah, and we did talk quite 0:39:03.120 --> 0:39:07.040 a bit about Fridging in the Dark Night episode because 0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:12.160 the character whose name escapes me, oh no, Rachel Dawes, 0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:14.960 she gets Fridged. 0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:18.960 Or Maggie Jellenhall at death Bridge. But Katie Holmes at 0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:20.240 other points in her life. 0:39:20.800 --> 0:39:26.640 Right, she gets violence is you know, people are violent 0:39:26.680 --> 0:39:30.040 toward her three different times in that movie. If I'm 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:35.040 remembering correctly, the final time being when she dies. So yeah, 0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:36.960 there's there's constant fridging, all. 0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:40.960 To advance the plot of Christian Bale and famously I Frankenstein. 0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:52.440 I mean, go to the Matreon, but here everything the 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:55.120 whole teapot was spilled on Frankenstein. 0:39:55.600 --> 0:40:01.640 I'm I'm not seeing the thread. How does why Frankenstein connect. 0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:03.480 Aaron Eckhart. 0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:09.960 Right, because he plays Harvey Dent in Okay, I get 0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:10.520 it now. 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:15.880 But then he later plays mister mister Adam Frankenstein. It 0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:19.239 sounds so ridiculous to say out loud Adam Frankenstein, but 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:20.439 that's the character's name. 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:25.120 But that's the only ridiculous thing about the movie. 0:40:25.239 --> 0:40:31.640 Otherwise everything else makes total sense. But yeah, I and 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:33.680 I mean a lot of these Christopher Nolan movies I 0:40:33.800 --> 0:40:36.799 enjoy in a macro sense, but it is kind of 0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:40.560 stunning how the same thing happens over and over and over. 0:40:40.600 --> 0:40:44.839 And I think that especially how mal Mal's character, I'll 0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:49.440 just call her bad. How Bad's character is treated in 0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:53.480 this movie is very almost beat for beat, pretty similar 0:40:53.480 --> 0:40:56.560 to how the oh I'm not remember the character's name, 0:40:56.719 --> 0:41:00.520 but his wife in The Prestigious treated right. It's like 0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:02.719 she loses touch, she doesn't know what's real and what 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:04.920 is and ends up taking her own life. And then 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:09.520 men argue for an hour, and you're just like, why 0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:11.680 is this a thing? 0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:14.440 Wait? What I remember from that? I need to rewatch 0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:17.520 the Prestige. But the main thing I remember from that 0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:20.920 movie is a woman dying in the very beginning in 0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:24.480 that sort of like initiating that rivalry. Does another woman die? 0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:27.319 No, I'm referring to that woman, but she comes back 0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:29.000 through flashbacks and stuff like that. 0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:31.319 That's okay, got it, gotta got it. 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:34.240 Yeah, I think it's I believe it's Piper Perabau, who 0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:36.520 is the the his wife? 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:37.759 Okay, got it? 0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:38.560 In that movie? 0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:43.200 Any bottom line, Yes, Christopher Nolan has a terrible track 0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:48.640 record when it comes to including women in his movie. 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:52.960 He has a real fixation on a woman has to 0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:57.960 be fridged and more specifically, die in a movie to 0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:00.399 characterize my male protagonist. 0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:06.600 Violently, die violently, especially like Memento and Insomnia. The whole 0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:09.319 point of the movie doesn't happen unless a woman is 0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:16.200 killed violently. Like it's really frustrating. I came across this 0:42:16.640 --> 0:42:22.600 very helpful paper by I believe a Swedish writer whose 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:28.840 name I'm going to butcher and I apologize, it's Spherear Sigfusen. 0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:32.440 I'll link it. I apologize I almost certainly got that wrong. 0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:36.840 But they wrote a paper called Noir Guilt Complex the 0:42:36.920 --> 0:42:39.440 death of women as a catalyst for character development and 0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:43.319 plot in the films of Christopher Nolan, And basically, I 0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:45.080 mean a lot of it is stuff we're going to 0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:48.360 be discussing anyways. But I did think it was interesting 0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:52.239 and I had never quite made this connection very explicitly 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:57.440 before of how dependent Christopher Nolan is on film noir 0:42:57.560 --> 0:43:02.080 tropes in order for his movie to work, and how 0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:06.200 I think like it's been regarded as like, oh, you know, 0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:11.400 Christopher Nolan is updating film noir, when it's like, you know, 0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.439 maybe he is esthetically and effects wise, but in its 0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:18.440 treatment of women, I would argue it's like even more 0:43:18.520 --> 0:43:22.719 regressive than your average film noir, where you have obviously, 0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:26.359 you have your your fem fetal who I think Mal 0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:30.640 falls into that very cleanly, down to her haircut. For 0:43:30.680 --> 0:43:34.120 some reason, she looks like it's a film noir movie 0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:36.920 even though it's twenty ten, and everyone else looks like 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:40.760 it's twenty ten. But whatever, right, but she she falls 0:43:40.800 --> 0:43:44.920 very cleanly into that. But at least in most film noirs, 0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:47.120 which we have yet to cover on the show. But 0:43:47.239 --> 0:43:49.680 just what I mean, I've seen some of them. I'm 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:53.120 not a huge fan. But at least part of what 0:43:53.239 --> 0:43:56.640 distinguished a fem fetal is she is always, you know, 0:43:56.719 --> 0:44:00.800 connected to the mystery, and she's often manipul There's definitely 0:44:00.840 --> 0:44:02.799 a lot of negative tropes in there. But at very 0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:05.120 least part of what makes a femme fatal interesting is 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:08.799 that they have agency that at that time it was 0:44:08.960 --> 0:44:12.400 unusual for a female character to have, right, And I 0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:16.000 feel like Christopher Nolan presents you with the esthetics and 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:19.440 some of the hallmarks of a femme fatal, but then 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:23.560 generally strips her of agency entirely. So in some ways 0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:25.160 it's like even worse. 0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:28.040 I don't know, right, Oh yeah, Well, let me tell 0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:31.719 you a little something that Christopher Nolan himself said in 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:36.239 an interview with Wired in twenty ten, shortly after the 0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:39.880 movie came out, because he was asked about his like 0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:44.719 noir references in his movies and particularly in Inception, and 0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:48.680 he said, quote, the key noir reference is the character 0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:51.399 mal It was very important to me that she come 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:55.719 across as a classic femme fatal. So he is literally 0:44:56.280 --> 0:45:00.439 identifying her as such. That was extremely deliberate on his part. 0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:02.800 M hmm. Okay, back to the quote. The rest of 0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:05.760 the quote is the character in her relationship to Cobb's 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:10.440 Psyche is the literal manifestation of what the femme fatale 0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:14.560 always meant in film noir, the neuroses of the protagonist, 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:17.760 his fear of how little he knows about the woman 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:21.960 he's fallen in love with, that kind of thing. End quote. 0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:25.840 So see, I feel like, I mean, you know, everyone 0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:28.120 is free to interpret anything anyway they like, but that 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:33.399 seems like a pretty unsophisticated interpretation of what a femme 0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:35.600 fatal is supposed to. Like. I feel like he's kind 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:37.680 of telling on himself there a little bit, because to me, 0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:40.920 that's never been to me what a femme fatale is 0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:44.799 as a manifestation of the male protagonist insecurity. It's like, 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:48.600 I think that's how Christopher Nolan's fem fetals present mm hmm. 0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:51.640 But I don't think that that's I mean, for me, 0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:54.759 I always viewed the fem fatale in terms of like 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:59.680 the negative stereotypes associated with them of being like the 0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:03.759 threat of a woman who is sexually empowered and has agency, 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:07.200 and that this presents a danger to the protagonist, and 0:46:07.239 --> 0:46:10.800 like it falls into the you know, stereotype that women 0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:14.600 are always trying to deceive you and you can't trust women. 0:46:14.719 --> 0:46:16.840 When they say yes they mean no, when they say no, 0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:20.480 they mean yes. And to me, that was where those 0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:24.719 tropes lie. So the fact that he interprets fem fatals 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:26.880 that way is also like kind of I don't know 0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:27.879 telling to me, I. 0:46:27.840 --> 0:46:33.239 Guess, yeah, I don't And maybe that's just like the 0:46:33.280 --> 0:46:36.600 way he thinks he's updating, But no, he says, like 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:42.600 this is a very classic femme fatale. So yeah, I 0:46:43.640 --> 0:46:46.520 don't know exactly what to make of this, aside from 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:53.960 he extremely intentionally wrote Mal as a fem fatale, which 0:46:54.239 --> 0:46:58.200 in itself is sort of confusing to me because, as 0:46:58.239 --> 0:47:01.120 we already hinted at, the character that we see on 0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:05.759 screen as Mal is in some cases in flashback, she 0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:10.440 is a real person and alive in the context of 0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:12.880 that flashback, but most of the time we see her, 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:17.239 she is a projection of Cobbs subconscious, right, So she's 0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:23.920 not even real. She's just his guilt ridden version of her, 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:25.960 buried deep in his subcondion, which. 0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:29.080 Is also in text explicit too, like they say that 0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:31.920 by the end, which brings me to I mean, we 0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:34.879 were sort of referencing this at the beginning. But even 0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:37.359 though there is an exchange in this movie that on 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:39.880 its surface may appear to pass the Bechdel test, I 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:43.160 feel like, with the exception of a few flashback lines, 0:47:43.600 --> 0:47:46.600 most of the time we hear Mall speak, she's speaking 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:52.080 through Cobb's subconscious And so I don't think that really 0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:55.720 qualifies as a female protagonist because it's made explicitly clear 0:47:55.760 --> 0:48:00.279 intacts that she is a manifestation of his, which is like, 0:48:00.400 --> 0:48:05.160 I mean, could you have less agency? No right, you're 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:08.440 being repeatedly murdered, but you're also just a projection of 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:10.880 your husband. But we get to see her die violently 0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:14.040 several times, don't worry. 0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:16.880 Yep, yes we do. Does it pass the Bechdel test 0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:20.920 when Ariodney kills her in the end, And does it 0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:25.080 pass the Bechdel test when she stabs Ariodney towards the 0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:28.560 beginning of the movie. Women are killing each other more 0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:29.880 than you'd expect. 0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:33.200 At least her being a manifestation of like Emo Cobb 0:48:33.480 --> 0:48:38.239 like at least justifies how overwrought Mary and Courtyard's dialogue is. 0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:41.319 And she's like a fabulous actor and she I mean, 0:48:41.680 --> 0:48:43.439 I really liked her in the movie when it first 0:48:43.440 --> 0:48:45.319 came out. I was like, Wow, she's so cool. She's 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:48.279 so like compelling in the way that fem fe tel 0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:51.640 characters can be. And she's really talented. But like on paper, 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:56.160 my god, where she's like circling ellen Page like a hawk, 0:48:56.239 --> 0:48:59.040 and it's just like have you ever been a lover? 0:48:59.440 --> 0:49:01.919 And you're like, oh my god. And if you think 0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:04.080 that that's actually like if you think about it, and 0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:08.040 you're like, that's actually Leonardo DiCaprio subconsciously asking her that 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:12.480 you like leave ellen Page alone. 0:49:13.200 --> 0:49:16.239 Right, And on top of that those lines that are 0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:22.520 being delivered by his subconsciousness version of mal she's just 0:49:22.719 --> 0:49:27.000 quoting stuff he has said, like earlier in their life 0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:31.200 to Ariadne, So she's like not even saying her own words. 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:33.440 She's just like quoting Cobb's character. 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:38.480 So like, yeah, and the and even like the physical implications, 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:40.400 and I know that the story is not intended to 0:49:40.440 --> 0:49:43.680 be read this one to one, but it's for the 0:49:43.719 --> 0:49:44.520 sake of argument. 0:49:44.560 --> 0:49:47.120 I just I really it didn't sit well with me 0:49:47.200 --> 0:49:51.480 on this viewing that it is like a victory every 0:49:51.520 --> 0:49:55.680 time Leonardo DiCaprio shoots his wife and kills her, like 0:49:56.320 --> 0:50:00.560 in this movie, brutalizing a woman means a really good 0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:03.960 thing and progress for our protagonist. That he is able 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:06.840 to shoot his wife with a machine gun. That's good, 0:50:07.120 --> 0:50:10.839 that's progress. We like that. Like, it's just I don't know, 0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.279 it's just kind of I know that it's not that 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:15.439 one to one, and you know, if you're watching the movie, 0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:18.520 you understand, but it is just on the surface is 0:50:18.600 --> 0:50:21.480 kind of ugly. I don't like it. 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:25.160 Well, it's so weird because one of my big things 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:28.840 with this movie is that a lot of the complications 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:34.439 that arise in the story could have been eliminated if 0:50:34.560 --> 0:50:39.239 Cobb just like went to therapy, because so many of 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:43.480 the obstacles are mall showing up and like trying to 0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:48.880 interfere or sabotage their mission. And it's because he has 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:54.200 so much guilt about the circumstances surrounding her death, and 0:50:54.640 --> 0:50:57.920 he's like buried all of this guilt in his subconscious 0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:01.360 So these projections of her based on all this guilt 0:51:01.440 --> 0:51:06.120 he is feeling keep popping up and ruining everything and 0:51:06.200 --> 0:51:09.840 like messing with their whole operation. And it's just like, 0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:14.719 if you just go to therapy, go to therapy and work. 0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:17.840 This shit out therapy, if Ellen Page will just do 0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:19.560 it for free. 0:51:19.280 --> 0:51:22.279 Like oh that, yeah, I have a whole I have 0:51:22.280 --> 0:51:23.359 a whole spiel about that. 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:25.680 But before we get to Ellen Page, I also wanted 0:51:25.719 --> 0:51:30.200 to just quickly like the way that and I honestly like, 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:33.720 I don't have a direct fix for this, given how 0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:37.200 rooted this movie is in the brain and the subconscious. 0:51:37.719 --> 0:51:42.440 But the way that Maul's what manifests mental illness mm hmm, 0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:45.120 that leads to her taking her own life. It just 0:51:45.880 --> 0:51:50.319 is very I think under thought and pretty sexist in 0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:54.359 the way that it's presented to the viewer, where you know, 0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:58.960 you are told by Leonardo DiCaprio like, well, I implanted this 0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:03.120 sick thought in her brain and that blossomed into and 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:05.759 on and on, and you're, you know, it's like he's 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:09.279 towing a line there. Okay, let's see where this goes. 0:52:09.400 --> 0:52:11.839 And and the way that it manifests I just I 0:52:11.880 --> 0:52:15.239 didn't really care for it all where you know, it 0:52:15.640 --> 0:52:20.239 did lead to her becoming deeply paranoid about what is 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:23.040 you know, what is real and what isn't. That's inherent 0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:26.319 to the story. But when it comes down to we 0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:29.640 see her take her own life without knowing you know 0:52:29.760 --> 0:52:32.719 that her husband is the one who has, you know, 0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:37.000 basically forced this circumstance on her. And on top of 0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:39.960 that that she did. I think this is like a 0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:45.080 combination of handling mental illness very poorly, badly interpreting what 0:52:45.160 --> 0:52:48.200 a fem fe tale is, and just good old fashioned 0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:53.320 sexism where he had, like Christopher Nolan has Mary and 0:52:53.320 --> 0:52:58.000 Courtyard's character say well, I've basically framed you for being 0:52:58.040 --> 0:53:01.759 a horrible person, so you also have to take your 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:04.279 own life with me, and I've kind of like it 0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:09.160 just makes her seem so devious. And the specific mention 0:53:09.360 --> 0:53:12.759 of I've had myself quote unquote declared saying by three 0:53:12.800 --> 0:53:17.080 different doctors and vagueness of that, I thought was very troubling. 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:21.040 And I don't know, I mean, it's like I feel like, 0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:23.920 you know, if Christopher Nolan is going to root a 0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:28.480 movie in the brain and in the dark recesses of 0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:31.359 the brain, and what are the consequences of exploring that 0:53:32.320 --> 0:53:34.719 you have to do your homework and like deal with 0:53:34.800 --> 0:53:38.319 that responsibly, Like that's literally what the movie is. But 0:53:38.360 --> 0:53:41.319 then when you actually get down to the specifics and this, 0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:43.799 you know, this criticism exists on many levels of this movie. 0:53:44.000 --> 0:53:47.520 You're like, huh, but this, but this is I think, 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:52.239 like a genuinely harmful one of just kind of casually 0:53:52.280 --> 0:53:57.240 being like, I don't know, defining reality, implying that women 0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:01.040 are more susceptible. I mean, it's just I don't know. 0:54:01.239 --> 0:54:03.840 I just didn't like it. I yet it was handled 0:54:03.920 --> 0:54:06.759 very unresponsibly, irresponsibly, My god, I. 0:54:08.880 --> 0:54:12.840 Have a whole thing about this where sure, we've talked 0:54:13.000 --> 0:54:17.040 about the idea of a woman being a bitchy obstacle 0:54:17.480 --> 0:54:20.000 for a male character to deal with quite a bit. 0:54:20.280 --> 0:54:22.239 I think there's a variation on this trope, and I 0:54:22.320 --> 0:54:26.360 think it ties somewhat into the fem fatale conversation. But 0:54:26.400 --> 0:54:30.719 I think there's a slightly there's a different version of it, 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:34.360 because if you do look at some like really well 0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:39.200 written film noir, you do see femme fatale characters who 0:54:39.560 --> 0:54:45.640 are nuanced and interesting fully characterized like have and not 0:54:45.760 --> 0:54:48.080 in every case, but There are definitely case studies you 0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:50.560 can do of certain fem fatale characters who are like 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:54.080 really interesting, compelling characters. If you take like the husk 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:57.400 of that, you get what I'm about to talk about, 0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:00.400 which is again this variation on the bitchy oppos I 0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:04.560 don't know exactly what to call it, because, as we've 0:55:04.600 --> 0:55:07.920 talked about recently, we're doing our best to really eliminate 0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:11.920 words from our vocabulary that have any disparaging or negative 0:55:11.920 --> 0:55:16.840 connotations surrounding mental illness. So I was inclined originally to 0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:20.319 call it like a crazy obstacle, but I don't want 0:55:20.320 --> 0:55:23.560 to use that word anymore. So I'm trying to figure 0:55:23.560 --> 0:55:27.239 out exactly how to best characterize this. But basically the. 0:55:27.200 --> 0:55:29.640 Idea group effort, we got this right. 0:55:29.760 --> 0:55:33.520 The idea is a woman will be depicted as having 0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:41.000 behavior that is erratic or unstable or irrational or obsessive, 0:55:41.840 --> 0:55:46.520 and that behavior becomes a major obstacle for other characters, 0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:50.920 particularly the male protagonist. We see this in movies such 0:55:51.000 --> 0:55:54.919 as Glenn Closest character in Fatal Attraction. This is a 0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:58.560 huge one. We see it in Kathy Bates' character in Misery, 0:55:59.160 --> 0:56:02.480 even like Wayne's ex girlfriend in Wayne's World. You see 0:56:02.520 --> 0:56:07.080 it in Andrew Garfield's character's girlfriend in the Social Network. 0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:10.440 This is the whole plot of my super ex girlfriend. 0:56:10.960 --> 0:56:15.000 This is uh Isla Fisher's character in Wedding Crashers. 0:56:15.200 --> 0:56:19.239 So it is so I mean, so pervasive that and 0:56:19.280 --> 0:56:21.760 I think that, I mean, this goes to a lot 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:24.759 of tropes that go I mean, even hearing that list 0:56:24.800 --> 0:56:27.400 like sends me kind of back to like research I 0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:31.600 did on mensa in just terms of like how it's 0:56:31.920 --> 0:56:35.399 a generally accepted thing for for a very long time 0:56:35.440 --> 0:56:38.360 and still by many people now that the brain of 0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:43.640 a woman or just a not a cis male, is 0:56:44.120 --> 0:56:50.160 weaker and more fragile and more, which is stigmatizing to everybody. Yeah, 0:56:50.239 --> 0:56:53.720 because I feel like it also reinforces this hyper masculinity 0:56:53.840 --> 0:56:56.400 of like I'm a boy, my brain is stronger. I 0:56:56.400 --> 0:56:58.919 couldn't you know, I couldn't possibly need therapy, I can 0:56:59.000 --> 0:57:03.160 possibly need to seek out help because I have a 0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:05.920 strong brain. And just I mean the implications that this 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:08.560 go on and on and on. But yeah, there is 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:12.200 like this very common perception that you know, women are 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:16.360 not I don't know that. Yeah, Like there I think 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:21.560 that it's been often labeled as women are inclined towards hysteria. 0:57:21.640 --> 0:57:25.040 It's stated explicitly in many cases, and I think that 0:57:25.160 --> 0:57:28.800 it's stated not quite as explicitly in this movie, but 0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:33.760 it's heavily implied. And yeah, I mean it's incredibly frustrating, 0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:35.600 and it's still you know, in movies to this day. 0:57:35.640 --> 0:57:37.600 This was ten years ago, and it's. 0:57:37.440 --> 0:57:40.960 Weird because, like so this is kind of a different 0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:43.920 circumstance than a lot of those other movies I listed, 0:57:44.000 --> 0:57:50.520 because in this case, mal being this obsessive, unstable person 0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:56.280 is well, okay, part of it is what she becomes 0:57:56.400 --> 0:58:01.320 after having been incepted and effectively gasline it, because what 0:58:01.440 --> 0:58:04.760 is inception besides it being like gaslighting someone. 0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.840 On a like you know, a chemical level. 0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:14.880 Right, So, after after he incepts her and makes her 0:58:15.200 --> 0:58:20.120 question her own reality to the point that she dies 0:58:20.200 --> 0:58:24.840 by suicide. So there's that factor. But then also a 0:58:24.880 --> 0:58:27.320 lot of what we see of her on screen again 0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:32.200 is his projections of her, and she is again very meddlesome. 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:35.120 She's showing up to sabotage their mission all the time, 0:58:35.800 --> 0:58:40.720 and in that way, she becomes this obstacle who is 0:58:41.000 --> 0:58:46.560 again characterized as being irrational, unstable, et cetera. But like 0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:51.440 that's his version of her, so like which we learn. 0:58:51.360 --> 0:58:53.720 At the very end. But I feel like at that 0:58:53.760 --> 0:58:55.920 point the damage has kind of already been done and 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:59.760 it's well, it is an interesting twist, I guess, Like 0:58:59.800 --> 0:59:01.960 I remember when I first saw the movie, when you 0:59:02.040 --> 0:59:06.600 find out what the real circumstance of like her death was, 0:59:06.680 --> 0:59:11.640 You're like, oh, this okay, but but it's just not handled. 0:59:11.920 --> 0:59:15.120 It's handled so I think strangely, and I think it 0:59:15.200 --> 0:59:18.280 is a lot of what it is is she's treated 0:59:18.360 --> 0:59:23.240 so poorly and kind of so inconsistently because it's just like, 0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:25.640 that's not who the writer's concern is. The writer is 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:31.040 concerned with basically absolving Leonardo DiCaprio from as much guilt 0:59:31.040 --> 0:59:33.800 as they possibly can before the movie is over. And 0:59:34.120 --> 0:59:36.920 that is I think a huge reason why Ellen Page 0:59:37.040 --> 0:59:39.920 is involved so heavily. There's elements of her character that 0:59:39.960 --> 0:59:43.680 I like, but her you know, huge task here, I 0:59:43.720 --> 0:59:47.560 think is to take on, you know, Cobb's emotional baggage 0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:51.320 and absolve him of guilt. Yeah, that is basically her 0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:55.520 plot function, and and it's just I don't know, it 0:59:55.560 --> 0:59:58.520 seems like the plot is designed to examine his guilt, 0:59:59.040 --> 1:00:02.240 explain why he's feeling that guilt, and then say, actually, 1:00:02.840 --> 1:00:04.000 we forgive him. 1:00:04.200 --> 1:00:07.560 It's fine, right, because like there should be more stories 1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:13.080 about men dealing with their feelings and acknowledging that they 1:00:13.120 --> 1:00:16.120 have feelings and coping with them in healthy ways. Like 1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:19.280 there are not stories about that very much. Not that 1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:22.320 this is a story about that either, because he does 1:00:22.360 --> 1:00:25.280 not deal with his feelings in a healthy way. 1:00:25.440 --> 1:00:27.560 No, he just waits for someone to tell him to 1:00:27.600 --> 1:00:30.240 not deal with it, and then he doesn't like, well, 1:00:30.280 --> 1:00:31.760 I mean, I guess, I don't know. I guess in 1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:34.480 that last scene, I will say this is embarrassing also, 1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:37.760 But like that last scene with him and mau it 1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:40.800 still gets me a little bit when she's you know, 1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:45.080 they did grow old together. That's very sweet that part. 1:00:45.400 --> 1:00:49.240 You're like, okay, fine, you got me for a second there, 1:00:49.800 --> 1:00:52.720 But but it's like it's just so it, you know, 1:00:52.800 --> 1:00:57.560 even that moment is designed to absolve him of the 1:00:57.600 --> 1:01:01.080 consequences of his actions. The fact that he did a 1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:04.240 bunch of sweet, nice things in the dream world before 1:01:05.120 --> 1:01:11.280 gaslighting his wife and causing this personal catastrophe and taking 1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:14.520 her life from her. The fact that they grew all 1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:17.200 together in the dream world is supposed to make that okay, 1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:19.440 And and the movie just kind of runs with that. 1:01:19.760 --> 1:01:22.480 Yeah, because he should feel guilty. 1:01:22.680 --> 1:01:25.840 He should feel I don't know why everyone's like, don't 1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:29.280 feel guilty. It's like, yeah, go to therapy, feel guilty. 1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:32.080 Probably go into a different line of work like that. 1:01:32.160 --> 1:01:34.120 These are these are the things I see. It's like, 1:01:34.320 --> 1:01:38.440 be a father to your children. Huh, get a different job, 1:01:38.800 --> 1:01:40.560 like just come. 1:01:40.400 --> 1:01:43.760 On, become a real like an architect who just designs 1:01:43.800 --> 1:01:46.600 buildings in the real world. Like stop it feel. 1:01:46.360 --> 1:01:50.720 Like Joseph Gordon Levit in five Hundred Days of Summer God, 1:01:52.240 --> 1:01:55.120 because Okay, I honestly, I kept getting confused because I 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:57.600 know that everyone in that I couldn't tell you who's 1:01:57.640 --> 1:01:59.920 doing what in the in the tea, the dream tea, 1:02:00.320 --> 1:02:03.600 and they're like, I'm the architect, I'm the PA, I 1:02:03.760 --> 1:02:05.960 do the lights, or like whatever the fuck they're doing. 1:02:06.080 --> 1:02:08.960 The inception squad, they're all they all each have their 1:02:08.960 --> 1:02:09.880 little job. 1:02:10.480 --> 1:02:14.120 Ye squad. But I kept thinking that Joseph Gordon Levitt 1:02:14.160 --> 1:02:17.080 was the architect because he's an architect in five Hundred 1:02:17.160 --> 1:02:21.400 Days of Summer. But he's not he's like the gaffer 1:02:21.600 --> 1:02:23.360 of dreams. I don't know what he does. 1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:26.520 His job is never given a name, because you have 1:02:26.960 --> 1:02:31.280 Ariadney is the She's the architect. Eames aka Tom Hardy 1:02:31.440 --> 1:02:35.720 is the forger. We've got the chemist and Yusuf. But 1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:39.440 we don't know what Joseph Gordon Levitt's character is, what 1:02:39.560 --> 1:02:40.680 his job title. 1:02:40.440 --> 1:02:44.560 Is supposed to be, like cute and around he I 1:02:45.200 --> 1:02:47.600 don't know, I don't I like need to get past 1:02:47.640 --> 1:02:51.400 by Joseph Gordon Levitt, Like I just find him bothers them. 1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:53.840 But it's fine. He's not a bad person and that 1:02:53.920 --> 1:02:55.840 doesn't happen enough so. 1:02:56.360 --> 1:03:00.680 That we know, of Gosh, they still care before you 1:03:00.800 --> 1:03:03.520 drag me check the date that this was really. 1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:06.040 Right. 1:03:06.200 --> 1:03:10.480 God, But I guess where I land on Mal's character 1:03:10.760 --> 1:03:15.400 is that like the way she behaves is not her 1:03:15.520 --> 1:03:22.560 fault because Cobbs gas lit her into this warped version 1:03:22.600 --> 1:03:25.880 of reality. And then the rest of the time we 1:03:25.920 --> 1:03:29.840 see her is his perception of her. And again he 1:03:30.000 --> 1:03:32.000 barely thinks very little of her. 1:03:32.240 --> 1:03:35.960 If he just and then at the end he kind 1:03:36.000 --> 1:03:39.560 of like self owns himself by being like yeah, obviously 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:42.520 or nothing like this, And you know, I guess I'm 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:45.400 just a little better. But but then it sounds like 1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:48.720 he's like calling, he's insulting her. It just sucks like 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:51.800 every like it's a personal victory when he's cruel to her, 1:03:51.960 --> 1:03:54.640 and it's a personal victory when he murders her because 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:59.640 she is his guilt. Right, find a better metaphor for that, Like, oh, 1:03:59.720 --> 1:04:04.760 don't keep killing Mary in Courtyard, she's she's so talented. Yeah, 1:04:04.760 --> 1:04:07.080 I found that whole thing. Really, this is just a 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:10.720 plot issue. Why wouldn't he just tell her he incepted 1:04:10.760 --> 1:04:13.560 her when she's on the ledge? Feel like that might 1:04:13.640 --> 1:04:14.520 do it? Right? 1:04:14.720 --> 1:04:17.480 There are many plot holes in this movie, and I 1:04:17.480 --> 1:04:21.360 don't even know what they all are because it's so complicated. 1:04:21.400 --> 1:04:23.240 I'm not paying enough attention. 1:04:23.000 --> 1:04:24.560 But I know that they're there. I just don't know 1:04:24.600 --> 1:04:28.240 what they are. But like, right, what is Why wouldn't 1:04:28.280 --> 1:04:31.600 he just because she's not real? What are the what 1:04:31.640 --> 1:04:35.960 would be the consequences if he told her that sooner? 1:04:36.000 --> 1:04:41.480 Because him got worst a divorce? Right in dream world 1:04:41.520 --> 1:04:43.840 even or in the real world? Like why doesn't he 1:04:44.120 --> 1:04:47.880 just tell her at any point in the movie prior 1:04:47.960 --> 1:04:50.800 to the end, Like there's no I don't understand what 1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:54.200 the disadvantage of revealing this sooner would have been, and 1:04:54.240 --> 1:05:00.680 I understand story and whatever. But yeah, so it's like right, 1:05:00.880 --> 1:05:04.160 so like in storytelling, the character arc doesn't happen until 1:05:04.200 --> 1:05:06.720 the like the full arc doesn't come all the way around. 1:05:06.760 --> 1:05:10.040 He won't change or grow until the end. But like 1:05:11.160 --> 1:05:14.360 what just oh it goes back to like find a 1:05:14.600 --> 1:05:17.080 better way to deal and like again, a man dealing 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:20.120 with grief, Like that's an interesting story. Like men are 1:05:20.160 --> 1:05:24.120 so conditioned to be emotionally closed off and to like 1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:27.440 not acknowledge or feel their feelings, and like so a 1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:32.120 story that explores that is worthwhile. But even like in this, 1:05:32.280 --> 1:05:36.120 he just doesn't. He doesn't deal with his grief in 1:05:36.160 --> 1:05:39.240 a healthy way at all. He's just he's so he's 1:05:39.480 --> 1:05:41.840 just keeps well, I mean it's coming and. 1:05:41.960 --> 1:05:44.240 His characters grow too much. Then Christopher Nolan might have 1:05:44.280 --> 1:05:46.320 to do that, and that's clearly like not something that 1:05:46.400 --> 1:05:50.600 is on the table. So I don't know. And again 1:05:50.640 --> 1:05:52.760 it's like when we talk when we talk about Christopher Nolan, 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:55.720 I guess I'm also including I mean not in Inception. 1:05:55.840 --> 1:06:00.960 Jonathan Nolan didn't write Inception, Christopher did he? But Jonathan 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:05.080 Nolan is very present in the perpetuation of this in 1:06:05.160 --> 1:06:07.360 the Nolan Expanded Universe. 1:06:07.480 --> 1:06:10.760 Sure whatever, So like, I guess my point, we're like, 1:06:10.840 --> 1:06:13.240 kind of what I'm trying to figure out here is 1:06:13.920 --> 1:06:16.600 mal The way we see her behaving in the movie 1:06:17.040 --> 1:06:23.120 is really not her fault because the gaslighting and her 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:27.439 being a projection of his subconscious when we do see her. 1:06:27.840 --> 1:06:30.760 But even so, the movie frames her as the villain 1:06:30.960 --> 1:06:33.160 who we are not supposed to identify with or we 1:06:33.200 --> 1:06:35.920 are not, like she's just there to further characterize Cob, 1:06:36.320 --> 1:06:40.200 So we as the audience are meant to see her 1:06:40.280 --> 1:06:45.080 as an obstacle, as a complication. I think there's part 1:06:45.080 --> 1:06:46.760 of it where like we are supposed to be like, 1:06:46.800 --> 1:06:49.040 oh no, we especially at the end when she's like 1:06:49.160 --> 1:06:53.440 when she finally learns because he finally tells her that it. 1:06:53.360 --> 1:06:56.640 Was him and gave her the agent that him. Isn't 1:06:56.680 --> 1:06:59.560 he just telling himself, like he's the truth to himself, 1:07:00.200 --> 1:07:03.320 because like she's dead, You're like you're making amends with 1:07:03.600 --> 1:07:06.240 you You're subconscious you're not even making amends with your 1:07:06.240 --> 1:07:09.440 wife because it was your fault that she died. 1:07:09.440 --> 1:07:12.840 Which is an important part of like growth of like 1:07:13.120 --> 1:07:16.960 admitting something to yourself and acknowledging that you have a problem. 1:07:17.000 --> 1:07:20.680 That is literally step one of the process. 1:07:20.800 --> 1:07:23.280 But I feel like it's framed like he's making amends 1:07:23.320 --> 1:07:26.720 with which is so weird because in the previous moment 1:07:26.920 --> 1:07:30.040 he's like, I know that you're not you. I know 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:32.160 that you're a part of me. But then it sort 1:07:32.200 --> 1:07:36.040 of evolves into my read And maybe I'm just like 1:07:36.440 --> 1:07:41.080 an unsophisticated viewer, but like when I was first watching 1:07:41.080 --> 1:07:44.320 this movie, I thought the movie was very clearly saying like, oh, 1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:47.160 and isn't this nice. He made amends with his wife 1:07:47.200 --> 1:07:49.280 and he apologized to her. But it's like, if you 1:07:49.280 --> 1:07:52.320 think about that for even point oh one seconds, he's 1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:58.840 not she's dead. It's done. I just ugh, messy, messy, 1:07:58.880 --> 1:08:00.160 messy Chris. 1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:03.400 In the real world, after they have woken up from 1:08:03.560 --> 1:08:06.760 that like fifty years long dream where they grow all 1:08:06.880 --> 1:08:10.240 together and build a whole world together, he knows that 1:08:10.560 --> 1:08:14.600 there's something the matter because one because he incepted her 1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:17.479 and two because he's done right says like, yeah, she 1:08:17.640 --> 1:08:20.519 wasn't the same. I could tell something was wrong. Then 1:08:21.560 --> 1:08:25.759 like make sure she gets help, like go to couples 1:08:25.880 --> 1:08:26.880 counseling together. 1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:29.599 I don't like to do somebody but his but I 1:08:29.640 --> 1:08:31.360 but I feel like they dodged that by being like, well, 1:08:31.400 --> 1:08:34.320 we can't tell people about the whole dream thing or 1:08:34.960 --> 1:08:39.080 or or, which is like okay, but nuh. Also, I 1:08:39.120 --> 1:08:41.760 thought this is like the Moo's minor character to the 1:08:41.760 --> 1:08:44.040 point where you don't even see her. But they made 1:08:44.200 --> 1:08:48.880 Grandma seem also like a very cruel bad character that 1:08:49.000 --> 1:08:50.280 was like you can't, I don't want you to talk 1:08:50.320 --> 1:08:52.600 to later, and I'm like, uh, look at what she 1:08:52.640 --> 1:08:55.000 has to work with here, Like she thinks that you 1:08:55.120 --> 1:08:59.479 murdered her daughter, which basically you did, so stop being 1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:05.120 such a baby. Of course she doesn't like you. There's 1:09:05.800 --> 1:09:08.879 so I wouldn't If I was the grandma in that situation, 1:09:08.960 --> 1:09:12.400 I would be like, these kids are being raised by me, 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:15.920 bye bye. Like Leonardo DiCaprio doesn't get with in I 1:09:15.960 --> 1:09:17.960 also don't fully understand why he gets to be with 1:09:17.960 --> 1:09:19.680 his kids at the end, but I think that that 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:22.040 was because I always stopped listening. By the end of 1:09:22.040 --> 1:09:25.400 this movie, I'm sure it's justified. But this, okay, so 1:09:25.520 --> 1:09:27.799 this kind of do you have anything else on? Mal? 1:09:28.000 --> 1:09:31.000 I guess the last thing I wanted to say, and 1:09:31.040 --> 1:09:33.400 it's it's a little bit of repetition of what we've 1:09:33.439 --> 1:09:35.720 already said. But this is coming at it more from 1:09:35.760 --> 1:09:39.160 like a screenwriting point of view, not that I have 1:09:39.200 --> 1:09:42.439 a master's degree or anything, because I would hate to 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:43.080 bring that up. 1:09:43.240 --> 1:09:45.920 Oh. Also I thought Ellen Paige in this, I was like, Wow, 1:09:46.000 --> 1:09:48.240 gradical visibility. Caitlyn's going to be thrilled. 1:09:48.520 --> 1:09:54.200 Yeah. I did appreciate that. Anyways, So the like, okay, 1:09:54.280 --> 1:09:58.479 so a movie generally has an external struggle and an 1:09:58.479 --> 1:10:02.040 internal struggle. Here's just many mini screenwriting lesson for all 1:10:02.040 --> 1:10:05.040 of our listeners out there. The external struggle is more 1:10:05.160 --> 1:10:08.040 or less the outward plot of the movie. So Inception, 1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:12.920 the external struggle is the Inception squad trying to accept 1:10:13.160 --> 1:10:17.280 Killian Murphy. The internal struggle of a movie is whatever 1:10:17.400 --> 1:10:22.240 emotional struggle that the protagonist is dealing with which exists 1:10:22.400 --> 1:10:27.240 alongside the external struggle. So in this movie, the internal 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:30.720 struggle is Cobb dealing with the guilt and regret and 1:10:30.800 --> 1:10:34.920 memories and all that stuff surrounding his wife Mall, which 1:10:35.160 --> 1:10:37.759 I feel like is such a and we've talked about 1:10:37.760 --> 1:10:42.000 this a lot in different episodes of a female character 1:10:42.520 --> 1:10:46.160 whose only function in the story is to be a 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:50.479 male character's internal struggle as a way to like further 1:10:50.920 --> 1:10:54.120 characterize the male protagonist, Like she doesn't have any of 1:10:54.120 --> 1:10:58.200 her own agency or interiority or anything like that. And 1:10:58.240 --> 1:11:01.439 this was like such a I'm example. 1:11:02.000 --> 1:11:06.120 I mean, this is egregious, like an egregious example of 1:11:06.200 --> 1:11:11.360 like very I mean, you couldn't more intentionally take agency 1:11:11.479 --> 1:11:15.320 away from a female character than to make her a 1:11:15.479 --> 1:11:19.160 projection of the male protagonist. Like that's just above and beyond. 1:11:20.560 --> 1:11:26.400 It's comical almost, It's like it's funny, how ridiculous it is. 1:11:27.439 --> 1:11:30.120 But yeah, that was That was the last thing really 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:32.560 that I had on mall. 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:37.160 Justice for Mary and Cotyard. She's wonderful. Why would you 1:11:37.240 --> 1:11:37.840 do this to her? 1:11:38.160 --> 1:11:40.599 I know, let's take a quick break and then we'll 1:11:40.600 --> 1:11:47.960 come right back and we're back. 1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:55.320 Let's talk Ariadne woo. So I mean, first of all, 1:11:55.400 --> 1:11:58.559 goes with that saying Ellen Page queer icon love her. 1:11:58.920 --> 1:12:03.519 Oh yes, big fan another egregiously named Christopher Nolan character. 1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:10.559 I learned that Ariadne is a mythical reference. Yes, but 1:12:10.600 --> 1:12:15.000 it basically translates to it it's it's a redeemer. Literally 1:12:15.280 --> 1:12:19.439 the Redeemer, Ariadne the Redeemer, and boy does he have 1:12:19.520 --> 1:12:24.000 some follow through on that one that is pretty explicitly 1:12:24.200 --> 1:12:28.080 her purpose in the plot, as we referenced multiple times, Yes, 1:12:28.160 --> 1:12:32.120 there are, I think. Okay, So in that same paper 1:12:32.200 --> 1:12:38.040 I was referencing earlier about film nor our guilt complex, Yeah, 1:12:38.200 --> 1:12:40.760 I sort of agree with the writer in saying that 1:12:40.800 --> 1:12:44.439 Ariadne is kind of an outlier in the Christopher Nolan 1:12:44.560 --> 1:12:49.519 film canon in that, at least on the surface, there's 1:12:49.560 --> 1:12:53.679 a lot of things that Ariadne like has that Christopher 1:12:53.760 --> 1:12:57.280 Nolan would usually only afford to a male character, such 1:12:57.280 --> 1:13:00.400 as she doesn't die. 1:12:59.600 --> 1:12:59.920 This is. 1:13:01.920 --> 1:13:04.640 Such as we know what her job is, and she 1:13:04.760 --> 1:13:08.320 is not defined by being someone's romantic partner or by 1:13:08.320 --> 1:13:12.080 being a mother. It truly is like the most bare 1:13:12.160 --> 1:13:15.759 minimum shit possible. But it's worth saying that this character. 1:13:15.880 --> 1:13:18.880 And then I guess I haven't seen Insomnia in so long, 1:13:18.920 --> 1:13:22.040 but I guess that there is a character in Insomnia 1:13:22.240 --> 1:13:26.280 who has a similar position of just like extended the 1:13:26.439 --> 1:13:31.560 basic courtesy of not being a murdered wife. 1:13:31.840 --> 1:13:33.040 Imagine that I. 1:13:32.960 --> 1:13:35.599 Would still, I mean, and we'll talk about like, I 1:13:35.720 --> 1:13:40.000 don't think Ariana is in any way a developed character, 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:44.559 and she doesn't have as much agency as she should, 1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:51.200 and her storyline is so chained to Leonardo DiCaprio's progress 1:13:51.240 --> 1:13:54.080 as a character. And I think that she is very 1:13:54.200 --> 1:13:56.640 much I think it is somewhat some. I mean, I 1:13:56.640 --> 1:13:59.120 think it's pretty gender that she is brought in as 1:13:59.240 --> 1:14:02.320 kind of the person to take on his emotional baggage 1:14:02.360 --> 1:14:05.200 and absolve him of this guilt. Right, that's all very true. 1:14:05.240 --> 1:14:08.439 But we know what her job is, we know what 1:14:08.520 --> 1:14:11.680 her interest is. She isn't brutally murdered. I hate that 1:14:11.720 --> 1:14:15.120 we have to like grasp for these straws, but there 1:14:15.160 --> 1:14:15.519 it is. 1:14:15.840 --> 1:14:20.719 Yes, what struck me very very initially before we even 1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:24.200 before I even like started prepping for this episode or 1:14:24.240 --> 1:14:27.360 anything like that, just kind of thinking back on the movie, 1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:31.439 remembering having seen it in the past, was that she 1:14:31.720 --> 1:14:35.479 is a character who is new to this world of 1:14:35.520 --> 1:14:39.200 infiltrating people's dreams. And one of the functions of her 1:14:39.280 --> 1:14:42.880 character within just the context of the movie is that 1:14:43.280 --> 1:14:47.320 she is a conduit by which the audience receives information 1:14:47.960 --> 1:14:49.960 and exposition about. 1:14:49.720 --> 1:14:51.000 She's your the world. 1:14:52.200 --> 1:14:53.879 She's perhaps the avatar. 1:14:54.160 --> 1:14:54.920 She's your avatar. 1:14:55.160 --> 1:14:58.920 And this is obviously not an uncommon function for a character. 1:14:59.640 --> 1:15:03.519 But but I feel like the optics of one of 1:15:03.600 --> 1:15:07.240 only two female characters in the movie and the only 1:15:07.320 --> 1:15:13.360 female character on the inception squad not knowing anything and 1:15:13.400 --> 1:15:17.240 having to be taught everything, like having to have men 1:15:17.439 --> 1:15:20.599 tell her all the stuff that I have mixed feelings 1:15:20.640 --> 1:15:22.160 about it, because on one hand. 1:15:22.000 --> 1:15:22.680 I hate it. 1:15:22.880 --> 1:15:25.760 You do get to see you do get to see 1:15:25.760 --> 1:15:29.360 how smart she is, how quickly she's able to learn 1:15:29.640 --> 1:15:33.760 and piece things together and like create mazes and complex architecture, 1:15:34.040 --> 1:15:35.920 But it also means that you do have to see 1:15:35.960 --> 1:15:38.920 a lot of men explaining everything to her, and it 1:15:39.000 --> 1:15:40.920 means that all of the men on the team are 1:15:40.960 --> 1:15:42.920 way more seasoned. 1:15:42.680 --> 1:15:44.559 And experienced exactly than her. 1:15:44.720 --> 1:15:46.120 Even like even. 1:15:45.960 --> 1:15:50.719 Killy and Murphy, who's not even who's being gaslighted, knows 1:15:50.760 --> 1:15:51.839 more than she does. 1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:54.840 Right, he knows more about inception and like extraction than 1:15:54.880 --> 1:15:55.240 she does. 1:15:55.520 --> 1:16:00.560 Yeah, yeah, I mean, even removing gender from the discussion. 1:16:00.880 --> 1:16:04.800 I just always find this to be very obnoxious to 1:16:04.880 --> 1:16:07.679 have to sit through that, you know, because it's literally 1:16:07.760 --> 1:16:10.240 just like, what is the first rule of writing show 1:16:10.280 --> 1:16:13.000 don't tell? But this is just like, yeah, I mean, 1:16:13.040 --> 1:16:16.679 I have this same issue with Harry Potter where it's 1:16:16.760 --> 1:16:19.920 like the whole first movie is just like Harry Potter's like, 1:16:19.960 --> 1:16:22.760 what's this? And then an adult is like, well it's 1:16:22.800 --> 1:16:26.559 that and he's like, oh interesting, and like that is 1:16:26.600 --> 1:16:30.879 the whole movie. I just I don't know it happens 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:36.160 in Avatar. But also it's the title, so whatever, he's like, 1:16:36.240 --> 1:16:36.760 what's this. 1:16:37.080 --> 1:16:40.000 Well, in a lot of movies with like heavy world building, 1:16:40.120 --> 1:16:43.360 you do need sure to be explained the rule. The 1:16:43.400 --> 1:16:46.120 audience needs to understand the rules of the world, so 1:16:46.200 --> 1:16:49.679 you know, you usually have to have a character act 1:16:49.920 --> 1:16:55.280 as like the proxyed Avatar by which that information gets 1:16:55.439 --> 1:16:58.200 explained to us. So I don't necessarily even have a problem. 1:16:58.320 --> 1:17:00.719 I don't have a problem to that is just a concept. 1:17:00.800 --> 1:17:03.479 But for it to be like the one woman on 1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:06.479 the team, yeah, is the one who doesn't know anything 1:17:06.520 --> 1:17:08.400 and has to be told of because like, why couldn't 1:17:08.400 --> 1:17:12.160 there have just been another woman in the squad maybe 1:17:12.200 --> 1:17:14.479 she's the chemist or why couldn't and we'd have a 1:17:14.479 --> 1:17:16.400 woman in stem Yeah, why couldn't like. 1:17:16.439 --> 1:17:18.960 Joseph Gordon Levitt have been the newbie? Like why did 1:17:19.000 --> 1:17:22.400 it have to be a female character, especially with and 1:17:22.439 --> 1:17:24.920 again it's like like you were kind of just saying like, 1:17:25.439 --> 1:17:27.559 if we had more women in the story, this would 1:17:27.600 --> 1:17:30.400 be less of a problem because there would be more 1:17:30.400 --> 1:17:33.360 women in the story. There is only like really one 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:36.840 and a half women in the story because mal is 1:17:36.880 --> 1:17:41.120 only mau some insteads so right, So it's like, yeah, 1:17:41.200 --> 1:17:43.439 the fact that I got really frustrated. I kept like 1:17:43.479 --> 1:17:46.720 pausing the movie and like stomping around and being like, 1:17:46.920 --> 1:17:49.000 I'm elm page, what's this, what's this? 1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:49.640 What's this? 1:17:49.840 --> 1:17:52.479 What's this? I forgive you? What's this? Because that's just 1:17:52.520 --> 1:17:55.080 like she forgives them for stuff that she doesn't need 1:17:55.120 --> 1:17:59.960 to and then she's like what's this And it's frustrated 1:18:00.479 --> 1:18:03.639 because we are given Like I don't know, I feel 1:18:03.680 --> 1:18:06.679 like this is a weird phase of Christopher Nolan slowly 1:18:06.760 --> 1:18:10.439 realizing that he keeps doing this, and so I mean, 1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:13.720 I'm this is conjecture, but maybe this is like the 1:18:13.760 --> 1:18:16.839 point in Christopher Nolan's career where he's like, okay, okay, okay, 1:18:17.240 --> 1:18:20.760 so I keep killing wives. What if I did that 1:18:21.080 --> 1:18:23.679 and there was a second woman? Like I think he's 1:18:23.720 --> 1:18:27.280 just kind of messing around with the formula and being like, 1:18:27.320 --> 1:18:29.800 maybe they won't see this if I put this over here, 1:18:29.920 --> 1:18:34.880 you know, he's like the prestige, but but it doesn't work. 1:18:35.200 --> 1:18:38.680 And it's really I like that at least, I mean, 1:18:38.720 --> 1:18:41.439 it's just I always find it really frustrating when you're 1:18:41.479 --> 1:18:46.120 given the infrastructure speaking as an architect, speaking as a 1:18:46.200 --> 1:18:50.840 guy from five hundred Days of Summer, you have the 1:18:50.920 --> 1:18:55.439 you're being given the like the bones of a character 1:18:55.479 --> 1:18:58.400 that could be really interesting. We know at least some 1:18:58.479 --> 1:19:00.400 things about her. We know that she is good at 1:19:00.439 --> 1:19:02.439 what she does. We know that she's a fast learner, 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:05.760 we know that she's interested in all this stuff. But 1:19:05.800 --> 1:19:09.000 then it just kind of like goes nowhere. They only 1:19:09.080 --> 1:19:11.240 characterize her as far as they need to in order 1:19:11.240 --> 1:19:14.559 for her to engage with Leonardo DiCaprio on his terms. 1:19:15.560 --> 1:19:18.360 And most of her agency I do think she has. 1:19:18.439 --> 1:19:20.960 I mean, she certainly has more agency than mal who 1:19:21.720 --> 1:19:25.559 has nothing where like she does, you know, choose to 1:19:25.920 --> 1:19:29.160 kind of she wants to know what is Cobb's deal. 1:19:29.680 --> 1:19:34.160 She is like actively pursuing answers there, but it's about 1:19:34.560 --> 1:19:37.599 but it's just about him, Like all of her agency 1:19:37.640 --> 1:19:39.880 is directly connected to learning more about him. 1:19:40.160 --> 1:19:43.120 The one time that it deviates from that as far 1:19:43.120 --> 1:19:45.639 as I could tell. Maybe there were other small moments, 1:19:45.720 --> 1:19:49.760 but if they were, I didn't even notice where. Toward 1:19:49.840 --> 1:19:53.200 the very end, it seems like they have failed because 1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:57.120 mal came in and killed Killian Murphy. So it's like, well, 1:19:57.240 --> 1:19:57.760 that was it. 1:19:57.800 --> 1:20:00.320 Then, I don't know why I always feel so bad 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:02.160 for Killy and Murphy in that moment where I'm like, 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:05.080 he does not know what's going on. He's like, where 1:20:05.120 --> 1:20:08.559 am I? And then he just's like really suddenly murdered 1:20:08.560 --> 1:20:13.360 by Mary and courtyard. And it's kind of funny because 1:20:13.400 --> 1:20:15.960 Ellen Page is like, don't let her kill Kelly and Murphy. 1:20:16.040 --> 1:20:19.160 He's so confused, and Leonardo DiCaprio is like, I don't know, 1:20:19.280 --> 1:20:21.400 maybe I'll let her do it, and then she does it. 1:20:21.439 --> 1:20:26.759 I don't know. I always laugh and any guy. 1:20:27.720 --> 1:20:33.400 In any case, it is Arid's idea to go into 1:20:33.439 --> 1:20:36.200 the next level, go into a deeper level so that 1:20:36.240 --> 1:20:39.599 they can keep going and succeed in incepting Fisher. 1:20:40.040 --> 1:20:43.280 That's true. That's true. I had I hadn't. Yeah, we'll 1:20:43.280 --> 1:20:45.439 give her credit for that. That's smart, and that's and 1:20:45.479 --> 1:20:49.200 it's only because she had that outsider's perspective too, right, 1:20:49.280 --> 1:20:50.439 So that's fair. 1:20:50.560 --> 1:20:53.479 I appreciate that, but that was kind of the only 1:20:53.680 --> 1:20:57.519 moment where she's really given any agency that impacts the 1:20:57.600 --> 1:21:00.200 narrative in a way that is not directly tied to 1:21:01.040 --> 1:21:02.679 Cob and his like guilt. 1:21:03.439 --> 1:21:06.000 Also, I didn't like the moment where it's kind of 1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:09.320 I mean, this is nitpicky, but there's a moment where 1:21:09.400 --> 1:21:12.920 kind of like DiCaprio implies that she's a real one 1:21:12.960 --> 1:21:16.519 for not assuming that he killed his wife. Like he's like, 1:21:16.720 --> 1:21:19.080 you're not like the other girls. You didn't assume that 1:21:19.120 --> 1:21:22.040 I murdered my wife. Like, I just thought that was 1:21:22.040 --> 1:21:26.719 a really annoying Dialogue edition where he's like, yeah, everyone 1:21:26.800 --> 1:21:29.400 thinks I killed my wife. What the hell? And then 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:31.960 she doesn't really say anything for a second, and he's like, yeah, 1:21:31.960 --> 1:21:34.719 thanks for not assuming I killed my wife. That's a first. 1:21:34.920 --> 1:21:37.479 And you're like, she's just like, you did kill your wife. 1:21:37.479 --> 1:21:40.360 She's like, go to therapy, bro, what are you talking. 1:21:41.400 --> 1:21:43.640 DiCaprio's whole thing is I didn't kill my wife, but 1:21:43.680 --> 1:21:46.520 like he absolutely did kill this what one hundred. 1:21:46.160 --> 1:21:51.519 Percent indirected though it may have been, he is he 1:21:51.600 --> 1:21:54.000 is one million percent responsible for her death. 1:21:54.240 --> 1:21:58.519 In a court of law culpable, Yeah, culpable, he did it. 1:21:59.320 --> 1:22:02.719 I would not yeah, let him have his children back. Sorry, 1:22:03.000 --> 1:22:03.839 I just wouldn't. 1:22:04.120 --> 1:22:05.599 They are not safe with him. 1:22:05.960 --> 1:22:09.320 Those kids, Okay, those kids imagine being older and then 1:22:09.400 --> 1:22:11.920 like finding that out. I would have been like I 1:22:11.960 --> 1:22:14.160 wish they had left me with Grandma. 1:22:14.040 --> 1:22:18.040 Like right, this is bullshit seriously. 1:22:18.240 --> 1:22:21.599 Also, oh wait, okay, sorry, one more annoying aside. Can 1:22:21.640 --> 1:22:24.640 you imagine I wonder okay, what's your opinion on this, 1:22:24.760 --> 1:22:27.280 because not all of the effects in this movie have 1:22:27.439 --> 1:22:30.800 aged super well it's been ten years. Some moments you're 1:22:30.840 --> 1:22:33.960 just like, oh, that's a computer. But the okay, the 1:22:34.080 --> 1:22:38.280 kids running away, are they like photoshopped in running away? 1:22:38.360 --> 1:22:43.600 Or did they like shuttle these kids all around Burbank 1:22:44.000 --> 1:22:46.240 for weeks to just run away. 1:22:46.600 --> 1:22:52.840 I would imagine that they green screened that. So they 1:22:52.920 --> 1:22:54.719 just put the kids in front of a green screen, 1:22:55.200 --> 1:22:58.240 showed them running away, and then just like imposed that 1:22:58.400 --> 1:23:00.639 image of them. Because you see that, I'm like, that's 1:23:00.720 --> 1:23:04.040 really basically every scene in the movie except for like 1:23:04.120 --> 1:23:08.120 the snow, like the blizzard fucking world. 1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:11.920 Not green screen. That is so much work for those 1:23:12.000 --> 1:23:15.320 poor kids that aren't even allowed to show their faces 1:23:15.760 --> 1:23:18.479 until the end of the movie as a plot point. 1:23:18.479 --> 1:23:20.640 I also couldn't see like what he was like, I 1:23:20.640 --> 1:23:22.599 can't look at my children's face. I'm like, just go 1:23:22.720 --> 1:23:23.320 to therapy. 1:23:23.880 --> 1:23:26.880 Ugh, my guy. 1:23:27.080 --> 1:23:29.160 But yeah, no, I wouldn't give him his kids back. 1:23:29.160 --> 1:23:31.120 I don't think he should have gotten his kids back. Sorry, 1:23:31.479 --> 1:23:33.759 no career change, honey. 1:23:35.680 --> 1:23:37.639 A couple other things I wanted to say about Ellen 1:23:37.680 --> 1:23:40.680 Page's character. This is an action movie. There's a lot 1:23:40.720 --> 1:23:42.599 of action. There's a lot of fighting, there's a lot 1:23:42.600 --> 1:23:45.720 of chase sequences. But she does not get to participate 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:50.439 in any of that. And it's like, well, you could argue, okay, 1:23:50.479 --> 1:23:53.080 well she's not a trained fighter, she doesn't have any 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:55.559 of that training. But even so, again the optics of 1:23:55.600 --> 1:23:57.600 like having your one female character not be able to 1:23:57.640 --> 1:24:00.280 participate in any of the fighting except for that, except 1:24:00.280 --> 1:24:01.800 for the scene at the very end when she does 1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:04.960 pick up the gun and shoot mal but other than that, 1:24:05.160 --> 1:24:06.719 like she's which. 1:24:06.479 --> 1:24:08.400 Does pass the Bexel test, Yes. 1:24:08.240 --> 1:24:12.200 Yes it does. When a woman shoots another woman, it 1:24:12.240 --> 1:24:17.200 passes the Bechdel test. No, but well, bullets are men, 1:24:17.640 --> 1:24:21.160 so I think I think maybe not wow phallic? 1:24:22.240 --> 1:24:25.640 Uh yeah, no, I agree. I mean the fact that like, 1:24:25.880 --> 1:24:29.200 and this is like, I mean, we're really like getting 1:24:29.439 --> 1:24:31.960 into it here, but I feel like that's what Christopher 1:24:32.000 --> 1:24:35.320 Nola does, so it's fine we can too. But the 1:24:35.360 --> 1:24:38.240 fact that, like the only woman in the movie who's 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:40.479 allowed to do combat is a projection of a man, 1:24:42.000 --> 1:24:46.080 is my god, my god, like because it's not like 1:24:46.360 --> 1:24:49.559 regular like mal when she's herself and she is like 1:24:49.680 --> 1:24:53.720 prior to her death, she doesn't fight. It's only when 1:24:53.760 --> 1:24:57.000 she is in the dream world as Leonardo DiCaprio's hyper 1:24:57.080 --> 1:25:01.479 mask projection that she is a skin killer, you know, 1:25:01.600 --> 1:25:04.520 Like it's just like, yes, I'm so, I'm so annoyed 1:25:04.800 --> 1:25:08.800 by by all of us, I think, I mean, yeah, 1:25:08.880 --> 1:25:12.559 I mean, Ellen Page also deserves better than this part. Also, 1:25:12.680 --> 1:25:16.320 there was like, okay, genuinely I can never get a 1:25:16.400 --> 1:25:20.080 read on, like are they trying to like push some 1:25:20.200 --> 1:25:24.320 sort of like subtle love story with Joseph Gordon Levitt 1:25:24.320 --> 1:25:27.519 and Ellen Page in this Because if so, I don't, 1:25:27.600 --> 1:25:30.000 like I've never been less compelled by anything in my 1:25:30.200 --> 1:25:33.439 entire life. But they keep putting them together and like 1:25:33.520 --> 1:25:35.400 saying cute things to each other. I'm like, am I 1:25:35.439 --> 1:25:38.280 supposed to like want more? Of this because I just like, 1:25:38.920 --> 1:25:39.880 I just don't I. 1:25:40.120 --> 1:25:44.799 Never thought that. The only thing to me that would 1:25:44.960 --> 1:25:47.760 indicate that a little bit is that scene where they're 1:25:47.760 --> 1:25:49.719 I think they're in like the second level of the dream. 1:25:50.280 --> 1:25:54.559 Cobb has just told Killian Murphy this thing, and they're 1:25:54.560 --> 1:25:56.920 in like the lobby of a hotel or something, I think, 1:25:57.040 --> 1:26:00.799 and Killian Murphy has just learned that he is currently 1:26:00.800 --> 1:26:03.920 in a dream, so like now his projections of his 1:26:03.960 --> 1:26:07.920 subconscious are like basically trying to figure out who who's 1:26:07.960 --> 1:26:11.439 the dreamer or like who are the outsiders? So they 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:15.439 all look at Ellen Page and Joseph Gordon Lovett and 1:26:15.760 --> 1:26:20.080 He's like, oh no, here, maybe it'll distract them if 1:26:20.120 --> 1:26:22.160 we kiss each other, give me a kiss. 1:26:22.479 --> 1:26:24.519 I feel like that is like a I don't know, 1:26:24.640 --> 1:26:27.519 I thought that. And the only reason that I'm kind 1:26:27.560 --> 1:26:29.880 of willing to go with like I think that we 1:26:29.880 --> 1:26:34.080 were supposed to like want that is because Christopher Nolan 1:26:34.160 --> 1:26:38.840 is so profoundly unskilled at writing anything like romantic that 1:26:38.920 --> 1:26:41.960 isn't traumatic. Like he can't just write people that have 1:26:42.000 --> 1:26:44.000 a crush on each other. It's just not what he does. 1:26:45.560 --> 1:26:48.160 I think we were supposed to be into that it's 1:26:48.360 --> 1:26:51.559 either way. It's like if so, that's even more insulting 1:26:51.560 --> 1:26:53.439 to Ariadne to think that you need to like try 1:26:53.479 --> 1:26:57.200 to like force a love interest on top of all 1:26:57.240 --> 1:27:00.200 the you know, disservices she's that are being done. But 1:27:00.280 --> 1:27:02.960 it barely reads because she and Joseph Gordon Lovett just 1:27:03.000 --> 1:27:07.320 like couldn't have less chemistry. It's given like two seconds 1:27:07.320 --> 1:27:07.839 of attention. 1:27:08.360 --> 1:27:10.840 Sure, yeah, kind of I can maybe see that, but 1:27:10.840 --> 1:27:13.160 it also it never occurred to me that they were 1:27:13.200 --> 1:27:16.639 trying to like push a little like romance between them. 1:27:16.760 --> 1:27:21.240 If anything, I thought that Joseph Gordon Lovitt and Tom 1:27:21.360 --> 1:27:25.080 Hardy were like flirting. They were like nagging each other 1:27:25.120 --> 1:27:26.720 a lot. But I'm like, you guys are flirting and 1:27:26.760 --> 1:27:30.040 you should just fucking kiss already, like just make it out. 1:27:30.160 --> 1:27:33.280 And I like want that, And I feel like that 1:27:33.439 --> 1:27:36.799 was all performance, Like that was like the way they performed. 1:27:36.800 --> 1:27:39.040 It was like you're like, Okay, I like this more. 1:27:39.080 --> 1:27:42.160 I like this way. Mmm, this is good. Chris. Ever, no, 1:27:42.240 --> 1:27:44.559 I mean this kind of brings me to It's not 1:27:44.600 --> 1:27:47.519 a point that I don't know I was. I was 1:27:47.560 --> 1:27:51.240 thinking about it because subtle plug, I guess, But like 1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:55.320 I have been watching Maggie may Fish's Friend of the Cast, 1:27:55.960 --> 1:28:00.599 her YouTube series on the works of Zack Snyder and 1:28:00.680 --> 1:28:04.280 how Zack Snyder and I think Christopher Nolan falls into 1:28:04.280 --> 1:28:07.760 this exact same thing, and I've seen this criticism of him. Coincidentally, 1:28:07.760 --> 1:28:11.639 they also have done Batman's whatever. But like Christopher Nolan 1:28:11.760 --> 1:28:19.600 is a profoundly sexless director, Like his work features couples 1:28:19.960 --> 1:28:23.640 but only at the worst moment of their entire lives. 1:28:24.400 --> 1:28:29.240 And it's just like for all of the heteronormative couples 1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:32.320 you see in his movies over and over and over, 1:28:33.000 --> 1:28:38.120 it's profoundly there's no intimacy in it. Really that isn't 1:28:38.240 --> 1:28:42.479 rooted in trauma. And Zack Snyder's film canon is really 1:28:42.520 --> 1:28:46.200 similar to the point where it's definitely not in this movie. 1:28:46.200 --> 1:28:48.960 But I think that each of them have each done 1:28:49.080 --> 1:28:52.280 one sex scene. I know Zack Snyder's was Watchman and 1:28:52.320 --> 1:28:56.320 it's so hard to watch, but like, just it's very 1:28:56.360 --> 1:29:00.000 bizarre like these and they both did sexless Batman movie 1:29:00.120 --> 1:29:04.040 that are rooted in you know, mommy girlfriend, trauma. It's like, 1:29:04.520 --> 1:29:07.160 just let a woman direct something, please, for the love 1:29:07.200 --> 1:29:10.880 of God, It's just so strange. That's just more of 1:29:10.880 --> 1:29:17.080 an observation. It's I don't know, just the most traumatic 1:29:17.200 --> 1:29:21.400 moments of a relationship are all that gets the worst, 1:29:21.439 --> 1:29:23.719 which is why it's like they if he was trying 1:29:23.720 --> 1:29:25.599 to write in a cute moment that sort of hit 1:29:25.640 --> 1:29:28.639 the cutting room floor for two other characters, it falls 1:29:28.680 --> 1:29:31.599 completely felt flat, and it's confusing because you're like, Christopher 1:29:31.640 --> 1:29:34.760 Nolan can't do something that's just like kind of cute. 1:29:35.560 --> 1:29:38.360 He does not have the skills. Well, kind of going 1:29:38.400 --> 1:29:42.920 back to Ariadne, where in my list of like very 1:29:43.000 --> 1:29:47.280 bare minimum things this movie does that are like I 1:29:47.280 --> 1:29:50.800 guess not negative and its like representation of women, but 1:29:50.920 --> 1:29:54.360 like again bare minimum or like neutral I wrote down 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:58.759 in my notes. Well, at least Ellen Page's character isn't 1:29:58.840 --> 1:30:02.320 poised as the romantic interest for any of the men, 1:30:02.439 --> 1:30:05.479 because again I did not interpret like the movie attempting 1:30:05.520 --> 1:30:09.240 to push her and Joseph Gordnon Levett together at all. 1:30:09.280 --> 1:30:12.320 Curious about what our listeners think, because yeah, I've heard 1:30:12.320 --> 1:30:15.559 differing opinions on that where I don't know, I texted. 1:30:16.280 --> 1:30:19.600 I texted people about it because I'm like, am I 1:30:19.680 --> 1:30:23.280 totally misreading this? Or and then some people were like, no, 1:30:23.320 --> 1:30:24.720 I thought I was supposed to think that, and then 1:30:24.800 --> 1:30:28.200 other people were like never picked up on it. I 1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:30.880 wonder I would be curious if there is like if 1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:34.280 previous drafts of this movie were kind of pushing it, 1:30:34.280 --> 1:30:37.680 because it seems like what we have might possibly be 1:30:37.880 --> 1:30:40.759 remnants of something else. That's my theory. 1:30:40.960 --> 1:30:45.680 I downloaded this script, Brag, and while I did not 1:30:45.720 --> 1:30:48.280 read it because it is eight thousand pages long, no 1:30:48.760 --> 1:30:55.040 thank you, I did do like control f to find 1:30:55.040 --> 1:30:58.280 if the word kiss appears in the script, because I 1:30:58.280 --> 1:31:00.600 wanted to see if that scene where he where like 1:31:00.680 --> 1:31:03.000 Joseph Gordon love It's like give me a kiss quick, 1:31:03.040 --> 1:31:05.799 it'll distract them or whatever, if that is in the script, 1:31:05.840 --> 1:31:08.160 and it does not appear to be. I read that 1:31:08.280 --> 1:31:11.320 scene and that's not even in the script. So that 1:31:11.479 --> 1:31:14.200 either just got thrown in on that day of shooting 1:31:14.960 --> 1:31:16.920 or something, or you know. 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:18.280 Like the Red Mystery. 1:31:18.880 --> 1:31:21.439 Yeah, so I think I think maybe it's just that 1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:24.240 like that got wedged in at the last moment. 1:31:24.280 --> 1:31:28.439 We're just like Christopher put in something, put in something flirty, 1:31:28.680 --> 1:31:31.880 like this is the least flirty movie I've ever seen, Christopher, 1:31:32.520 --> 1:31:36.120 and then he's like, make someone kiss it. I don't 1:31:36.160 --> 1:31:36.960 know how a joke. 1:31:38.280 --> 1:31:41.280 It's like, women won't want to see this movie unless 1:31:41.320 --> 1:31:43.839 there's a kiss in it, so throw in a kiss. 1:31:43.880 --> 1:31:46.600 God damn it, Chris. 1:31:46.320 --> 1:31:49.920 Your movies aren't flirty enough. And he's like, oh rats, 1:31:49.960 --> 1:31:53.479 Like it's just I mean, no one's coming to Christopher 1:31:53.560 --> 1:31:56.760 Nolan for like even a compelling love story, like just 1:31:57.080 --> 1:31:59.200 it's just not why we show up for him. We 1:31:59.280 --> 1:32:03.160 keep showing up because of Hans Zimmer. 1:32:03.320 --> 1:32:10.479 Possibly the other bare minimum thing I wrote down as 1:32:10.520 --> 1:32:14.560 it pertains to Ellen Page's character, which is more syllables 1:32:15.000 --> 1:32:18.360 than Ariadne. But I don't, I can't. I keep not 1:32:18.400 --> 1:32:20.800 being able to say that name, Ariadne. 1:32:20.960 --> 1:32:24.120 I mean, it's an unusual name, and it's also it 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:30.280 is so like Maul and Ariadne are so freshman year 1:32:30.479 --> 1:32:37.280 in film school name choices. It kills me. So yeah. 1:32:38.439 --> 1:32:41.760 But anyway, the other like bare minimum thing is at 1:32:41.840 --> 1:32:47.800 least the male characters around her notice and acknowledge that 1:32:47.880 --> 1:32:50.920 she does a good job. Yes, there's a few different 1:32:50.920 --> 1:32:54.040 lines of dialogue that I wrote down where Cobb says 1:32:54.080 --> 1:32:56.880 to Arthur, he says, I've never seen someone pick it 1:32:56.960 --> 1:33:01.280 up so fast about Ellen Page. At one point Cobb says, 1:33:01.360 --> 1:33:06.360 kind of apropos of nothing. He's just like a terrific work. 1:33:06.400 --> 1:33:10.240 By the way, Yeah that is nice. And then right 1:33:10.240 --> 1:33:13.920 before she gets recruited Michael Caine, Cobb says like I 1:33:14.040 --> 1:33:17.320 need someone who's as good as Cob is, like I 1:33:17.360 --> 1:33:19.920 need someone who's as good as I was, And Michael 1:33:19.960 --> 1:33:21.959 Kaine's like, I have someone even. 1:33:21.760 --> 1:33:29.160 Better or I have someone better. Quick recommendation. If you 1:33:29.240 --> 1:33:35.439 haven't ever seen Michael Caine's acting lesson tape from the eighties. 1:33:35.000 --> 1:33:37.599 On you the blink, the don't blink you never blink? 1:33:37.720 --> 1:33:42.880 Doink? There it is like very funny and also like 1:33:43.240 --> 1:33:46.280 low key, kind of helpful. I and now every time 1:33:46.320 --> 1:33:49.920 I'm on camera, I'm like, blink with intention, Jamie you 1:33:49.920 --> 1:33:52.840 you heard the man wow, blink with intention. And so 1:33:52.880 --> 1:33:55.160 whenever Michael Kaine blinks, it's at a moment where his 1:33:55.280 --> 1:33:59.880 character is feeling vulnerable. Always I always notice, imagine that 1:34:00.160 --> 1:34:01.919 in this movie for fourteen seconds. 1:34:02.360 --> 1:34:04.160 Yes, and too bad. He loves Brexit. 1:34:04.240 --> 1:34:07.680 Yeah so whoopsies, he loves Brexit. He hates blinking, and 1:34:07.720 --> 1:34:14.519 that's just this unfortunate truth. But yeah, no, I agree. 1:34:14.520 --> 1:34:18.000 I was a little leery on the I've never seen 1:34:18.000 --> 1:34:20.720 someone pick it up so fast, because I that like, 1:34:20.960 --> 1:34:23.880 it didn't cross the line, fortunately, but sometimes I worry 1:34:23.920 --> 1:34:27.840 about like kind of like when a woman joins the 1:34:27.880 --> 1:34:30.919 squad and they're like, wait a second, she can do something. 1:34:31.120 --> 1:34:33.599 I'm shocked, but it did, but it kind of stayed 1:34:33.640 --> 1:34:35.519 on the other side of the line of like they 1:34:35.600 --> 1:34:38.519 were genuinely impressed that anyone could pick this up so quickly. 1:34:38.960 --> 1:34:41.400 They appreciated her work, and then when she made the 1:34:41.439 --> 1:34:44.799 suggestion to go down deeper, they take that suggestion seriously 1:34:44.880 --> 1:34:46.679 and they take it on and no one else takes 1:34:46.760 --> 1:34:49.160 credit for it, and just like yeah, yeah, like she 1:34:50.240 --> 1:34:54.920 Christopher Nolan is such a strange writer where I'm like, 1:34:55.439 --> 1:34:58.320 did he just treat like He's just like, oh, just 1:34:58.360 --> 1:35:01.439 treat this character with the you would treat a male character. 1:35:01.600 --> 1:35:03.439 But then no, because she has to do the emotional 1:35:03.520 --> 1:35:05.720 baggage stuff. I don't know. I don't know. 1:35:06.640 --> 1:35:09.439 I have a couple other things that are not at 1:35:09.439 --> 1:35:12.200 all gender specific but that I thought were very funny. 1:35:13.240 --> 1:35:13.840 Go for it. 1:35:14.400 --> 1:35:19.000 This movie only works under the assumption that the idea 1:35:19.040 --> 1:35:21.559 that you have during a dream. If you have a 1:35:21.640 --> 1:35:24.599 dream and you come up with an idea of an 1:35:24.600 --> 1:35:28.240 idea happens in your dream, that that idea will stick 1:35:28.280 --> 1:35:32.519 with you under any circumstance, and it might change everything 1:35:32.560 --> 1:35:35.400 about who you are as a person. Because, like was 1:35:35.479 --> 1:35:37.519 watching this movie, I was like, this would be like 1:35:38.240 --> 1:35:42.080 if I woke up from a dream where in the 1:35:42.160 --> 1:35:47.360 dream I started a podcast about the movie Inception, and 1:35:47.880 --> 1:35:49.639 then I wake up and I'm like, oh my gosh, 1:35:49.680 --> 1:35:52.200 I have to start a podcast about the movie Inception. 1:35:52.360 --> 1:35:54.200 I you know, I had a dream about that, so 1:35:54.240 --> 1:35:56.920 I guess I have to do it, Like. 1:35:57.479 --> 1:36:00.960 Yeah, oh yeah, you are just behold into every lark 1:36:01.040 --> 1:36:05.400 that you're subconscious, like imagine the most bizarre dreams you've 1:36:05.439 --> 1:36:08.559 ever had, and then being like, well I guess, then, 1:36:08.600 --> 1:36:10.960 well I guess I have to do it. Like I 1:36:11.040 --> 1:36:14.599 used to have this really scary recurring dream about Bob 1:36:14.680 --> 1:36:17.760 Saggat on a trampoline where he would be like, get 1:36:17.760 --> 1:36:21.000 on the trampoline, Get on the trampoline. Like it was 1:36:21.120 --> 1:36:23.200 just a recurring dream I have when I was a kid, 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:25.280 when they used to be re airing a lot of 1:36:25.840 --> 1:36:30.040 reruns of Full House on ABC Family, but it would 1:36:30.080 --> 1:36:32.680 just be Bob Saggot on a trampoline in my backyard. 1:36:33.120 --> 1:36:34.840 We didn't even have a trampoline, but he was like, 1:36:34.920 --> 1:36:37.080 get on the trampoline, Get on the trampoline. And I 1:36:37.120 --> 1:36:39.280 would always be like if something if I get on 1:36:39.280 --> 1:36:42.600 this trampoline, something horrible's gonna happen. It's like if I 1:36:42.680 --> 1:36:44.439 woke up and I was like, I have to get 1:36:44.479 --> 1:36:46.800 a trampoline and I need to get Bob Saggott to 1:36:46.800 --> 1:36:50.439 your stat and investigate this. 1:36:50.880 --> 1:36:53.479 I mean, now is as good a time as any 1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:56.520 to announce that I am going to start a podcast 1:36:56.720 --> 1:36:58.760 about the movie Inception I had a dream about. I 1:36:58.840 --> 1:36:59.360 have to do it. 1:37:00.320 --> 1:37:04.400 I am literally Bob Saggett is on a Spirit Airlines 1:37:04.439 --> 1:37:08.759 flight here right now to find out what was going 1:37:08.800 --> 1:37:10.720 on there. And that I mean, it's like, I know, 1:37:10.800 --> 1:37:13.040 I know that dreams can be very profound, but the 1:37:13.080 --> 1:37:19.400 assumption that all dreams are profound is ridiculous and very funny. 1:37:20.000 --> 1:37:23.240 That's also, okay. A quick thing I had was that 1:37:23.600 --> 1:37:29.719 like the Killian Murphy thing, the whole the corny levels 1:37:29.840 --> 1:37:34.280 of him holding his his like evil dad's hand and 1:37:34.320 --> 1:37:36.760 he's the evil son, and the dad is like, I 1:37:36.800 --> 1:37:40.040 wish you just were a different evil than me, and 1:37:40.080 --> 1:37:43.559 he's like he's just like Rich boy crying. You're just 1:37:43.600 --> 1:37:46.759 like I felt it the first time I watched the movie. 1:37:46.880 --> 1:37:50.599 I feel it now. I'm like, I could not care 1:37:51.400 --> 1:37:55.800 less about whatever is happening here with the billionaires. And 1:37:55.840 --> 1:37:59.000 they're like, how do we approach an oil fortue? You're like, 1:37:59.160 --> 1:38:04.400 I don't care? Who is this character? Like, oh my god? 1:38:04.479 --> 1:38:07.240 Could we just like let Ellen Page do something else? 1:38:07.280 --> 1:38:13.200 Like uh yeah, Well. One of my other things exactly 1:38:13.560 --> 1:38:15.920 it's in every movie, is it turns out well. One 1:38:15.920 --> 1:38:19.360 of the other things I wrote down was inception is 1:38:19.439 --> 1:38:23.360 what like uber rich people do with their money to 1:38:23.400 --> 1:38:28.479 get richer, because like Sido buys an airline so that 1:38:28.520 --> 1:38:31.880 they can incept Killian Murphy like, why not just use 1:38:31.920 --> 1:38:33.960 the joke? And yeah, He's like, huhu, it would be 1:38:34.000 --> 1:38:35.360 I just thought it would be cleaner if I just 1:38:35.400 --> 1:38:38.160 bought the whole airline, which, by the way, I hope 1:38:38.240 --> 1:38:39.760 that flight attendant. 1:38:39.400 --> 1:38:41.600 They said that they bought her. First of all. They 1:38:41.600 --> 1:38:43.559 said we had to buy a flight attendant, as if 1:38:43.720 --> 1:38:45.880 it was just like something people do. 1:38:47.040 --> 1:38:50.200 It's like, I hope they paid her. Well, I like 1:38:50.479 --> 1:38:54.080 why wouldn't Why would they? Like now she has dirt 1:38:54.160 --> 1:38:57.760 on you guys, Like why wouldn't you just have one of. 1:38:57.760 --> 1:39:02.880 The other She saw that story to variety right. Also, 1:39:02.920 --> 1:39:04.519 they live in la I don't know why I found 1:39:04.560 --> 1:39:06.960 that detail to be obnoxious, But at the end they're like, 1:39:07.120 --> 1:39:10.880 you're about to land in La Baby, Like I'm like 1:39:11.160 --> 1:39:14.320 Leona DiCaprio's is like landing at his house, like what 1:39:14.400 --> 1:39:16.160 are you what? 1:39:16.920 --> 1:39:19.760 And then he's like, got off the plane at lax 1:39:19.920 --> 1:39:21.040 and with a dream. 1:39:20.800 --> 1:39:26.360 And a color. Welcome to the land of famouscess. Is 1:39:26.400 --> 1:39:29.479 he gonna fit in? We don't know? 1:39:32.439 --> 1:39:35.360 Something something about Stiletto's. 1:39:35.360 --> 1:39:37.760 Oh my god, that's like every school dance I ever 1:39:37.840 --> 1:39:40.799 went to that song when you play it like volume 1:39:41.080 --> 1:39:49.880 deafening at some point, the butterfly flu that's like Leader 1:39:50.000 --> 1:39:52.920 DiCaprio reunated with his children, nodding his head like yeah, 1:39:53.080 --> 1:40:06.960 moving his hips like yeah. 1:40:00.560 --> 1:40:06.120 I'm sweating so much. Okay, So Sido he buys the airline, 1:40:06.160 --> 1:40:09.680 and it's like, why not just use that money to 1:40:09.840 --> 1:40:14.320 like bribe Fisher or buy him out of the company, 1:40:14.439 --> 1:40:17.040 or buy some stock in his company, do something like 1:40:17.280 --> 1:40:20.719 why are you going through all the someone of doing 1:40:20.760 --> 1:40:23.200 something that does not sound like it would work at all. 1:40:23.600 --> 1:40:27.439 Inception does not sound like a thing that would work 1:40:27.680 --> 1:40:30.599 even a little bit, But the movie's so hell bunt 1:40:30.640 --> 1:40:33.440 on convincing you that it is like the most effective. 1:40:33.479 --> 1:40:38.040 Like there's like an idea is the most effective parasite ever. 1:40:38.600 --> 1:40:40.880 Like it's just you can't kill an idea. 1:40:40.880 --> 1:40:44.120 You have to admit. That's just like Christopher Nolan fully 1:40:44.280 --> 1:40:48.720 jerking himself off, like being like ideas are I mean, 1:40:49.360 --> 1:40:52.240 I see what he's saying, and I understand the reality 1:40:52.320 --> 1:40:55.640 under it of like a an idea can be very pervasive. 1:40:55.640 --> 1:40:59.080 But I feel like he's being like the Dark Night 1:40:59.479 --> 1:41:04.720 changed your life, right, Like I just I don't know, 1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:09.400 it's it's all, it's all annoying. I really enjoy watching 1:41:09.400 --> 1:41:11.920 this movie, but it's also so annoying. It's such a 1:41:11.920 --> 1:41:14.280 weird that's such a Christopher Nolan thing where you're like 1:41:14.600 --> 1:41:18.400 I'm having a great time, I'm deeply annoyed. I'm like, 1:41:18.439 --> 1:41:21.440 how dare you make me enjoy this movie. 1:41:21.760 --> 1:41:25.840 I also think that at the end, when after Killian 1:41:25.920 --> 1:41:29.639 Murphy has been incepted and he decides to like break 1:41:29.720 --> 1:41:33.160 up this multi billion dollar empire, I like to think 1:41:33.200 --> 1:41:36.800 that he just like starts an Etsy store selling his 1:41:36.880 --> 1:41:41.360 like cross stitches or something, like that, Oh, I know. 1:41:41.400 --> 1:41:45.479 Like what happens to these people afterwards? Like I don't. 1:41:45.520 --> 1:41:47.320 I mean, if I were Ellen Page, I would just 1:41:47.360 --> 1:41:49.800 I'm like, I have no allegiance to these people. I'm 1:41:49.800 --> 1:41:51.799 gonna just write a tell all, sell it to random 1:41:51.800 --> 1:41:55.559 House for a million billion dollars. Like see you, this 1:41:55.640 --> 1:41:58.040 guy killed his wife. Everyone's saying he killed his wife, 1:41:58.080 --> 1:42:02.960 and guess what, it's true, like he fully did. This 1:42:03.040 --> 1:42:06.320 movie is weird, but it's fun. I also appreciate. I 1:42:06.320 --> 1:42:09.639 mean again, it's like I think that with white male 1:42:09.680 --> 1:42:15.400 o tour culture, the negatives outweigh the positives. But to 1:42:15.479 --> 1:42:18.640 give Christopher Nolan the smallest bit of credit, I appreciate 1:42:18.680 --> 1:42:21.799 that there was not a sequel to this movie because 1:42:21.840 --> 1:42:25.920 I know people wanted it, and I can't imagine something 1:42:25.960 --> 1:42:28.400 more exhausting than a sequel to Inception. I'm like, I 1:42:28.439 --> 1:42:31.360 don't want a single, I don't want another detail about this. 1:42:32.080 --> 1:42:36.919 Let's just bury it. We're done. I am curious about Tenant. 1:42:37.280 --> 1:42:40.400 I want to see John David Washington and Robert Pattinson together. 1:42:41.120 --> 1:42:44.200 I know, yeah, I hate that I want that, but 1:42:44.280 --> 1:42:48.040 I do want that. I do I do we fully 1:42:48.160 --> 1:42:50.920 recognize the At what cost? Of this movie as such 1:42:50.960 --> 1:42:53.200 an all time high. The fact that Christopher Nolan was 1:42:53.360 --> 1:42:59.160 pushing and seemed like, imagine taking a global pandemic this personally, 1:42:59.840 --> 1:43:06.040 Like it's just absurd. That said, I really hope And 1:43:06.200 --> 1:43:08.680 the whole time, I'm like, I just like would love 1:43:08.720 --> 1:43:10.680 to see this movie at a drive in, Like this 1:43:10.760 --> 1:43:13.960 would be a great drive in movie. I would happily 1:43:13.960 --> 1:43:15.720 see this movie at a drive in. Can't we just 1:43:15.760 --> 1:43:20.640 do that? I don't know? Yeah, Like how deeply selfish 1:43:20.680 --> 1:43:23.880 and like just uncaring do you have to be to 1:43:23.920 --> 1:43:27.000 be like, yeah, someone might die to see Tenant? Like 1:43:28.240 --> 1:43:32.840 what are you doing with your life? Don't see Tenant 1:43:32.880 --> 1:43:35.760 in theaters? See it safe? Please and let us know 1:43:35.800 --> 1:43:38.040 what you think, because it's been getting pretty good reviews. 1:43:39.120 --> 1:43:40.960 I mean, he makes good movies. 1:43:41.200 --> 1:43:46.559 Unfortunately he's like it's a Tenant, it's a palindrome. I'm like, 1:43:46.720 --> 1:43:48.519 I get it, I get it. 1:43:49.320 --> 1:43:51.000 He's so he's a genius. 1:43:51.040 --> 1:43:55.160 He really, I mean is not, but like he he 1:43:55.200 --> 1:43:58.000 wants you to think, right, No, it's like he's really 1:43:58.080 --> 1:44:00.479 just like some of his movies feel like he's screaming 1:44:00.520 --> 1:44:07.360 that he's a genius, like into your mouth, like he's 1:44:09.000 --> 1:44:11.479 I will I mean, perhaps to Hans Zimber on this score. 1:44:11.560 --> 1:44:14.519 It is an iconic score. And we have we have, 1:44:15.040 --> 1:44:20.200 we culturally have not escaped this farting noise in movies 1:44:20.240 --> 1:44:22.960 to this day. Ever since Inception came out, the fart 1:44:23.000 --> 1:44:27.519 noise is now cannon and we can't get rid of it. 1:44:27.680 --> 1:44:32.800 So it's as ubiquitous as Leonardo DiCaprio being clothed in 1:44:32.960 --> 1:44:33.799 bodies of water. 1:44:35.560 --> 1:44:38.280 What is going on? I just men need to stop, 1:44:39.360 --> 1:44:44.240 they need to stop. I will I will again just 1:44:44.400 --> 1:44:48.719 give a shout out to Emma Thomas, who is Christopher 1:44:48.720 --> 1:44:51.719 Nolan's spouse but also has produced all of his movies. 1:44:51.720 --> 1:44:55.559 And I would say, well, actually I wouldn't say, wow, 1:44:55.600 --> 1:44:58.280 I give credit to a man right now. It's ruining 1:44:58.320 --> 1:45:02.120 my life. But I reas listened to friend of the 1:45:02.160 --> 1:45:06.920 Cast Krarina Longworth's season of You Must Remember This about 1:45:07.240 --> 1:45:10.640 Polly Platt, which I highly recommend to our listeners. It 1:45:10.840 --> 1:45:14.600 is all about poly Platt is like this iconic producer 1:45:15.160 --> 1:45:20.920 who her skills were repeatedly discredited and buried because she 1:45:21.160 --> 1:45:24.599 was always working for men. And so it is kind 1:45:24.600 --> 1:45:28.280 of this incredible investigation of her life that just reveals 1:45:28.320 --> 1:45:31.559 exactly how much she did, and she was married for 1:45:31.600 --> 1:45:35.200 a while to Peter Bugdanovich, and like how much credit 1:45:35.240 --> 1:45:38.040 he took from her and all of his good movies 1:45:38.080 --> 1:45:41.599 were with her, So what does that tell you? Et cetera. Yeah, 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:44.120 and Isaac brought up as we were watching this, He's like, Oh, 1:45:44.120 --> 1:45:47.320 I wonder if like Emma Thomas is potentially a similar 1:45:47.680 --> 1:45:51.679 Polly Platt story because she's pretty exclusively produced Christopher Nolan movies. 1:45:51.680 --> 1:45:55.360 But we don't really hear her spoken about much. It's 1:45:55.400 --> 1:45:58.760 not a name that is like brought up. I mean, 1:45:58.800 --> 1:46:02.040 given how much she's done and how many billions of 1:46:02.080 --> 1:46:06.280 dollars movies she's produced have generated, I'd like to know 1:46:06.400 --> 1:46:09.880 more about her. I'm curious. And also being married to 1:46:09.920 --> 1:46:12.880 Christopher Nolan sounds terrible, like I don't but maybe it isn't. 1:46:12.920 --> 1:46:13.320 I don't know. 1:46:13.439 --> 1:46:15.200 He seems to want you to die. 1:46:15.520 --> 1:46:19.479 He seems to want to kill you. Let's hear more 1:46:19.520 --> 1:46:21.800 about No, but I am very curious. I want to 1:46:21.840 --> 1:46:25.280 like give her her due she has. I mean, yeah, 1:46:25.320 --> 1:46:28.000 she's produced quite literally all of it, and a few 1:46:28.080 --> 1:46:30.680 non Christopher Nolan movies, but for the most part they 1:46:30.720 --> 1:46:35.599 seem to work together. Yeah, in any case shout out 1:46:35.640 --> 1:46:40.479 to her, this is I wouldn't say it's a diverse cast. 1:46:40.520 --> 1:46:44.799 I think that, like, there are non white important cast members, 1:46:44.800 --> 1:46:46.800 but for the most part, they are relegated to the 1:46:46.880 --> 1:46:51.120 sidelines with I guess the exception of Ken Wantonabe, who 1:46:51.520 --> 1:46:56.160 I think he does such an iconic Oh. I just 1:46:56.200 --> 1:46:58.519 love how he delivers a line where I forget what 1:46:58.600 --> 1:47:00.240 line it is, but there's like one line where he 1:47:00.280 --> 1:47:02.720 also like he's on the floor and he has to 1:47:02.760 --> 1:47:06.679 turn over his shoulder and he's like, this is a dream, 1:47:06.840 --> 1:47:07.160 isn't it. 1:47:07.280 --> 1:47:09.360 Or it's like it's just so because he's on the 1:47:09.479 --> 1:47:12.920 rug and he's like, my face is in polyester right now, 1:47:13.040 --> 1:47:13.799 not wool. 1:47:13.920 --> 1:47:17.680 There's a whole monologue about a rug and it's so 1:47:18.800 --> 1:47:21.400 it's so goofy, but he is great. I mean, that's 1:47:21.400 --> 1:47:24.000 a this is I mean, and the extended Nolan universe 1:47:24.080 --> 1:47:29.080 is a very very heteronormative white universe, and this is 1:47:29.360 --> 1:47:33.320 certainly no exception to that. And this is something that 1:47:33.360 --> 1:47:36.760 we have an ongoing conversation about on this show is 1:47:37.400 --> 1:47:41.920 that otur culture in general is so white dominated and 1:47:42.000 --> 1:47:46.640 so male dominated, and Christopher Nolan has perpetuated that in 1:47:47.160 --> 1:47:50.040 or and is complicit and that in many ways down 1:47:50.120 --> 1:47:52.040 to I don't know, I mean, I would I would 1:47:52.040 --> 1:47:54.679 recommend that that people check out that Polyplat mini series 1:47:54.720 --> 1:47:58.479 because they're really I mean, we all know that women 1:47:58.560 --> 1:48:02.200 and people of color are constantly erased from the narratives 1:48:02.320 --> 1:48:06.600 of I mean of quite literally everything but pertaining to 1:48:06.640 --> 1:48:09.479 our show, to to movies, and just like hearing the 1:48:09.520 --> 1:48:12.960 details of that and just like the psychological trauma that 1:48:13.080 --> 1:48:18.120 comes with that from being repeatedly erased and discredited. It's 1:48:18.160 --> 1:48:23.400 a wonderful series, and we're gonna see Tenant, but we 1:48:23.439 --> 1:48:28.360 don't have to, Like, we don't have to. I'm really 1:48:28.400 --> 1:48:30.280 struggling with how much I want to see Tenant. It 1:48:30.280 --> 1:48:31.759 makes me feel bad. 1:48:32.400 --> 1:48:32.719 Same. 1:48:32.920 --> 1:48:33.080 Ah. 1:48:34.120 --> 1:48:38.320 Well, well, we've had a discussion already a bit about 1:48:38.479 --> 1:48:41.200 whether or not this movie passes the Bechdel test. I 1:48:41.200 --> 1:48:43.040 think if you were I'm gonna say no, if you 1:48:43.040 --> 1:48:47.000 were just looking at it on on paper, you could 1:48:47.080 --> 1:48:50.320 argue that it technically passes because there is that small 1:48:50.360 --> 1:48:54.960 interaction between Mal and Ariadne, where like Mal's like, what 1:48:55.000 --> 1:48:57.720 are you doing here? My name is I know who 1:48:57.760 --> 1:48:59.679 you are. What are you doing here? I'm just trying 1:48:59.680 --> 1:49:01.080 to under stand, bub blah blah, and that goes on 1:49:01.120 --> 1:49:04.439 for a little while. But it is, like you said, but. 1:49:04.400 --> 1:49:05.760 It's projection, mall. 1:49:06.080 --> 1:49:09.600 It's projection, mall. So she's not even real for the 1:49:09.600 --> 1:49:12.880 rest of that scene, she's like quoting stuff that Cobb 1:49:13.000 --> 1:49:17.320 had told her. I would say, considering the context of 1:49:17.360 --> 1:49:20.439 this exchange, I would give it a no. I think again, 1:49:20.479 --> 1:49:23.560 it's like a technical pass. But yeah, factoring in the context, 1:49:24.080 --> 1:49:25.280 not a pass anymore. 1:49:26.240 --> 1:49:28.600 I'm a hard No. I think this is a galaxy. 1:49:28.680 --> 1:49:31.240 This is like Christopher Nolan, not that I think he 1:49:31.320 --> 1:49:34.439 knows what the Bechdel test is. I would be shocked, 1:49:34.600 --> 1:49:38.400 but I mean, prove me wrong, I guess. But yeah, no, 1:49:38.520 --> 1:49:42.840 I think that he I mean no, I'm he does 1:49:42.880 --> 1:49:45.760 not deserve to get away on a technicality here mm hmm. 1:49:46.000 --> 1:49:50.400 It's a no, ye're for me? And how okay, let's go. 1:49:50.439 --> 1:49:53.160 Let's go to the nipples. Nipples scale wow? Wow? 1:49:54.880 --> 1:49:56.720 Yeah, so zero to five nipples based on how it 1:49:56.760 --> 1:50:00.160 represents women's slash, how does it fare from an her 1:50:00.200 --> 1:50:04.240 sexual feminist point of view? I'll give this I guess one, 1:50:05.240 --> 1:50:06.560 maybe a half even. 1:50:06.680 --> 1:50:07.679 I was gonna go half. 1:50:07.840 --> 1:50:11.479 Yeah, yeah, I mean there are there's a few very 1:50:11.640 --> 1:50:15.400 like bare minimum things to like about the way Ariadni 1:50:15.520 --> 1:50:18.800 is characterized, and that she's smart and capable and we 1:50:18.880 --> 1:50:22.840 know what her job is and her team members appreciate 1:50:22.880 --> 1:50:26.320 her and never call into question her skills or abilities 1:50:26.400 --> 1:50:29.799 or anything like that. But again that's extremely bare minimum stuff. 1:50:30.160 --> 1:50:35.200 And most of the time she is doing Cobb's emotional 1:50:35.280 --> 1:50:38.160 labor for him, and she's being like, you need to. 1:50:38.320 --> 1:50:41.280 I'm just absolving him for things at random, for things 1:50:41.280 --> 1:50:42.960 he doesn't deserve to be absolved for. 1:50:43.240 --> 1:50:46.720 Because plot, I mean, the fact that she picks up 1:50:46.760 --> 1:50:49.599 on what he's going through, I think is also an 1:50:49.680 --> 1:50:54.200 extremely gendered thing. It's not necessarily a negative trope. 1:50:53.960 --> 1:50:57.080 But like right, but it's rooted in something right because. 1:50:56.880 --> 1:50:59.080 Like the one woman on the team is the one 1:50:59.080 --> 1:51:02.360 who's able to see that, like, hey, baby, the Cob 1:51:02.439 --> 1:51:05.760 is being tormented by guilt, and it's like it's like, 1:51:06.080 --> 1:51:09.439 come on, dude, like you there are other people around you, 1:51:09.960 --> 1:51:13.120 Like don't you notice that your friend is like going 1:51:13.200 --> 1:51:18.799 through something like you know that his wife, his wife died, 1:51:19.479 --> 1:51:22.200 Like it's just baffling to me that it's like, well, 1:51:22.360 --> 1:51:24.519 but of course the woman is the one to figure 1:51:24.560 --> 1:51:26.280 it out anyway. 1:51:26.120 --> 1:51:28.840 Right, like it is. In fact, that's that's negative for 1:51:29.000 --> 1:51:32.040 everybody too, because it also just implies that the people 1:51:32.120 --> 1:51:35.640 that Cob is with every day seem to have no 1:51:35.760 --> 1:51:38.839 idea that he's under this intense psychological torture. 1:51:39.320 --> 1:51:44.120 Yuseff is like administering the sedatives and stuff to enable 1:51:44.200 --> 1:51:47.759 him to go under on his own time, right to 1:51:47.760 --> 1:51:50.200 like be with his wife in dream world, Like how 1:51:50.240 --> 1:51:51.840 does he not know what's going on? 1:51:52.439 --> 1:51:56.840 Logically he should be the one to know, I think, right, Like, 1:51:57.000 --> 1:51:59.400 logically he would be the person to pick up on this, 1:52:00.160 --> 1:52:04.519 the closest access to Leo DiCaprio's actual brain chemistry. But 1:52:05.120 --> 1:52:07.800 he's busy. He's an avatar, so I don't know. 1:52:09.920 --> 1:52:15.280 So yeah, there there's some positives and negatives about Ariadne. 1:52:15.880 --> 1:52:19.440 And then when it comes to mal like woof, it's 1:52:19.479 --> 1:52:20.320 but again it's like. 1:52:20.400 --> 1:52:22.880 I think, like the worst of the worst in terms 1:52:22.920 --> 1:52:25.960 of Christopher Nolan's gender problems. 1:52:25.640 --> 1:52:28.160 For sure, And it's like, again, if you think about 1:52:28.160 --> 1:52:31.280 it for two seconds, you realize that all of her behavior, 1:52:32.080 --> 1:52:34.640 which is being framed by the movie as as like 1:52:34.800 --> 1:52:38.880 villainous and and sabotaging. 1:52:38.160 --> 1:52:42.320 And bad mall, it's mall A bit mall, Yeah. 1:52:42.000 --> 1:52:45.439 MOI Mal, if you think about it for two seconds, 1:52:45.479 --> 1:52:47.760 you realize, like, well, none of what she's doing is 1:52:47.760 --> 1:52:50.200 her fault. She was gas lit and then everything else 1:52:50.280 --> 1:52:53.760 is a projection, So like, we can't blame her for 1:52:53.920 --> 1:52:56.840 what she's doing. But the movie very very very much 1:52:56.880 --> 1:53:01.200 wants you to blame her for what she's doing. So 1:53:02.080 --> 1:53:05.599 it's not good one half nipple. I guess I'll give 1:53:05.640 --> 1:53:08.200 it to mal because she deserves I'll give it to 1:53:09.120 --> 1:53:11.599 Marion Cotillard because she deserves better. 1:53:12.200 --> 1:53:16.880 Yeah she does. She's I just I can't recommend her 1:53:16.920 --> 1:53:20.000 work enough. I really like her. Same with Ellen Page. 1:53:20.040 --> 1:53:22.000 God damn it, I love Alan Page. 1:53:22.280 --> 1:53:23.920 So yeah, I'll give it a half as well for 1:53:24.040 --> 1:53:27.280 at least the outlined sketch of a good female character 1:53:27.360 --> 1:53:29.479 that was not followed through on, and also for not 1:53:29.640 --> 1:53:33.800 murdering her. I really you couldn't ask for less. I 1:53:33.840 --> 1:53:36.519 will say that this is I mean again, it's like 1:53:36.640 --> 1:53:38.120 you don't want to hand it to it. But in 1:53:38.160 --> 1:53:41.599 the context of Christopher and Nolan's career, the fact that 1:53:41.640 --> 1:53:45.200 Ariane is not brutally murdered is somehow progressed for him, 1:53:46.200 --> 1:53:49.720 and ugh, what I feel so grut, but like, and 1:53:49.880 --> 1:53:53.080 this does seem to put him on some track to 1:53:53.960 --> 1:53:58.760 treating his his female characters in ensuing movies, starting with 1:53:58.880 --> 1:54:02.639 The Dark Knight where he's kind of trying to have 1:54:02.840 --> 1:54:05.599 Catwoman be empowered and it doesn't work, but it's an attempt, 1:54:05.680 --> 1:54:09.080 and like, I feel like Inception is kind of an 1:54:09.080 --> 1:54:12.360 inflection point for him in terms of like making an 1:54:12.360 --> 1:54:15.160 effort or at least recognizing that he cannot continue to 1:54:15.200 --> 1:54:18.800 treat his female characters like this. Maybe Tenant will blow 1:54:18.880 --> 1:54:21.519 up this theory, but it seems like at least around 1:54:21.560 --> 1:54:23.720 this time, he starts to realize that, like, people are 1:54:23.720 --> 1:54:26.240 not gonna stop giving you shit for this. You have 1:54:26.320 --> 1:54:28.519 to find a more compell You need to just like 1:54:28.520 --> 1:54:31.840 simply take women seriously. Imagine your wife has produced every 1:54:31.840 --> 1:54:35.440 single movie, like right, how it's It's a bird. So 1:54:36.360 --> 1:54:40.560 this is I I like, you know, white male a 1:54:40.680 --> 1:54:44.920 tour culture is very frustrating, and I want to see Tenant. 1:54:45.400 --> 1:54:49.000 So in conclusion, we're going to see Tenant. 1:54:49.960 --> 1:54:53.680 In conclusion, we're gonna see Tenant, and honestly probably will 1:54:53.720 --> 1:54:55.080 like it seems like people like it. 1:54:55.200 --> 1:54:57.120 Yeah, so I'm prepared to look. 1:54:57.240 --> 1:55:01.240 God damn it. In conclusion, God damn it all to hell. 1:55:01.440 --> 1:55:02.560 To quote Titan. 1:55:04.600 --> 1:55:07.480 H, I'll be goddamned. 1:55:07.640 --> 1:55:09.320 I think that's all I have to say. I don't know. 1:55:09.640 --> 1:55:12.720 I'm so frustrated with myself. I'm like, I want to 1:55:12.760 --> 1:55:16.440 say Tenant like stop, don't look. 1:55:16.880 --> 1:55:22.520 We contain multitudes. We are multi dimensional female characters in 1:55:22.600 --> 1:55:27.200 our own movies, in our own dreams. What if this 1:55:27.240 --> 1:55:29.640 whole episode was a dream the whole time and we 1:55:29.720 --> 1:55:31.640 wake up and we're like, fuck, we didn't even actually 1:55:31.720 --> 1:55:32.800 record anything. 1:55:39.160 --> 1:55:42.760 Uh So, you know, goddamn it all to hell, and 1:55:43.920 --> 1:55:46.320 we love you. This has been the episode we Also, 1:55:46.320 --> 1:55:48.240 you'll notice there wasn't a guest on this episode. It's 1:55:48.320 --> 1:55:52.760 just just the two of us because I'm still trapped 1:55:52.760 --> 1:55:55.800 in Wisconsin and we both felt guilty that we liked inception. 1:55:56.840 --> 1:56:01.120 So in conclusion, you can follow us on all the 1:56:01.160 --> 1:56:04.320 social media platforms. You can follow us on Twitter at 1:56:04.320 --> 1:56:09.240 bexel Cast, Instagram at bexel Cast, subscribe tour Patreon aka Matreon, 1:56:09.640 --> 1:56:12.720 where we will be doing get another exciting month of 1:56:12.760 --> 1:56:14.840 I think we're going to be doing another Llen Page 1:56:14.880 --> 1:56:15.760 classic this month. 1:56:15.840 --> 1:56:21.520 Yes, oh yeah, so yeah. I pitched Sport Timber Sport timber, 1:56:21.680 --> 1:56:26.160 which is which we're gonna cover, whip it and stick 1:56:26.200 --> 1:56:29.280 it because all movies about. 1:56:29.520 --> 1:56:31.040 I'm calling it it's timber. 1:56:31.200 --> 1:56:34.720 It's timber because all movies about women's sports have to 1:56:34.760 --> 1:56:36.040 have it in the title. 1:56:36.240 --> 1:56:40.360 It's another baffling. It's a trope that's neither here nor there, 1:56:40.480 --> 1:56:45.160 much like Leonardo DiCaprio underwatering clothes. It's neither here nor there, 1:56:45.200 --> 1:56:46.600 but it's the thing for some reason. 1:56:47.040 --> 1:56:48.040 Yeah true. 1:56:48.320 --> 1:56:50.880 So anyways, you know, head over to the Matreon for that. 1:56:51.440 --> 1:56:53.920 Mm hmmm. You can go to tea public dot com 1:56:53.960 --> 1:56:59.320 slash the Bechdel Cast for our merch and uh, you know, 1:56:59.400 --> 1:57:01.480 give us a little rate and review. Why don't you 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:04.480 on you know, Apple Podcasts or wherever you find your 1:57:04.520 --> 1:57:08.640 podcast and otherwise, just be really careful that you don't 1:57:08.680 --> 1:57:12.440 get incepted because obviously it's going to change your entire life, 1:57:12.480 --> 1:57:15.200 because the ideas that you have in dreams will change 1:57:15.200 --> 1:57:15.959 you forever. 1:57:17.840 --> 1:57:24.840 I was like to conclude, rah rah, like, uh, you know, 1:57:25.240 --> 1:57:27.200 I hope you're hope you're doing well, take care of yourself, 1:57:27.320 --> 1:57:30.960 help other people, yes, and and you know, at least 1:57:31.000 --> 1:57:33.240 feel a little bit bad when you watch Tenant. 1:57:33.360 --> 1:57:33.880 Yeah. 1:57:34.560 --> 1:57:34.840 Bye,