1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: The cover of Time magazine in October nine was unusually artistic, 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: a full body portrait of a man alone on a 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: roof at night. His eyes are closed, he's playing the trumpet, 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: and you sense that it's a soft and soulful tune. 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: The man is went in Marsalis, and the headline, unlike 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: the tune, blares out the new jazz age, the quintessential 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: American genre was back, selling out halls and going platinum 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: for the first time since Bebop, and according to Time, 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: nobody was more responsible for this resurgence than Marsalis. Three 11 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: years before, he had started the concert series at Lincoln 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: Center that would become Jazz at Lincoln Center, the first 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: addition to Lincoln Center since the Film Society in nineteen 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: sixty nine. Marsalis is ill It's artistic director. He's also 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: head of the jazz program at Juilliard, his alma mater. 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: For an artist less brilliant than Marsalis, all these achievements 17 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: might overshadow his genius as a player, but Marsalis's genius 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: could never be overshadowed. He is as the new Yorker 19 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: called him the most celebrated trumpeter of his generation. Just 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: as impressive is the fact that perhaps nobody else could 21 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: have marshaled the donations and the will of the city 22 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: to build Rose Hall, the permanent one eight billion dollar 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: home for jazz at Lincoln Center in the time Warner 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: Center on Central Park. That's where Marsalis and I sat 25 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: down to talk in front of a small audience of 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: his students and Jazz at Lincoln Center donors. That silence 27 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: was impressive, so we could just jump into it. What 28 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: do you think is one of the things that you 29 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: need to have to perform? Jazz? People to play with 30 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: My shows an hour long, I'm gonna need longer answers 31 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: to these questions. I'm don't worry. But it is jazz 32 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: is up. It's communal. So you can look at somebody 33 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: like Luis Armstrong really really could play. And when he 34 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: met the penist Earl Hines, man they could play together. 35 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: He made some great duets. Because when when Pops heard 36 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: Earl Hines, he said, Okay, somebody really to play with 37 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: the real innovation of jazz is grouping provisation and the 38 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: fact that I can in time we have the pressure 39 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: of time that in time I can make a decision, 40 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: and you will make a decision, and we will work 41 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: out as we go through time how we're gonna negotiate 42 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: our agendas to some type of meaningful development and conclusion. 43 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: As I tell my young students, I'm glad they're here. 44 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: The main thing of the teaching is how do we 45 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: play together? Why did you make that decision? How are 46 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: you playing? Why did you go into two there? Why 47 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: did you play this cross rhythm? How do you develop 48 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: the matic material when you're a soloing? So you asked 49 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: me a question, and the longer I talked, the more 50 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: difficult it is to stay on the point of that 51 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: question and make it. I thought I made it clear 52 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: when we started that you went too mar salaries. You 53 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: can say whatever you want to say, no, but but 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: part of part of the problem in jazz improvisation is 55 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: organization of material. The longer you play and what makes 56 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: kind of Blew such a great record. Because we're talking 57 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: about Miles Davison, So what if you take the horn players, 58 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: Miles cannonball athlete, and John Coltrane. Each of them develops 59 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: thematic material in a different way. John Coltrane is more 60 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: like Faulkner, just comes out in waves. Miles Davis is 61 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: more like him away, just short phrases that he will 62 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: develop Boom boom boom boom boom. Cannonball Atlee is just 63 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: like a valuable, soulful Southern preacher that's just gonna hit 64 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: you with He beens a gravy and sauce on your 65 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: plate every time. And when you hear the three of 66 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: them play, you here distinct personalities on the same form. 67 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: And that's the allure of jazz. Once a piece and 68 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: you sit there and say, oh God, this is like 69 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: the double black diamond Ski run. You know this is 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: the one man. I gotta be on it. I gotta 71 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: be on it, and I gotta be so hon it. 72 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: You're not gonna play pieces perfectly. It's like, can I 73 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: have a perfect conversation with you? I cannot misspeak a word, 74 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: but doesn't mean I've had a good conversation. It's the 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: opposite of a few a pianists. You have four hundred 76 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: and seventy five thousand notes in a concerto. How many 77 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: of those notes are you gonna play perfectly? You're gonna 78 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: miss a good twenty thousand of them and you will 79 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: play the hell out of it. And when did you 80 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: first pick up a horn? Al Hurt actually gave me 81 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: my first trumpet. My father was playing an how Herds 82 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: band in nineteen sixty six and sixty seven. And in 83 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: terms of Doc Severance, and just to give you a 84 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: sense of the history of music, I was supposed to 85 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: play on the Tonight Show in night two eighty three 86 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: and they've said, well, let's bump this guy off. He's 87 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: nobody knows who he is. Let's because they ran over 88 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: something that let's bump this guy. From Doc servants and said, 89 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: oh no, you're not bumping the trumpet. Put this man on, 90 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: and Doc got me on the show. We have a culture, 91 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, trumpet players, and we know each other. We 92 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: talked to each other, we talked about each other across generations, 93 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: across time. The type of love that we have of 94 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: our instrument, of our traditions, it's a it's not something 95 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: that's known also about jazz musicians. That's another thing that 96 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: doesn't come come through that eighty year old person would 97 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: be talking to a twenty year old And the type 98 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: of love and feeling that we have that goals between 99 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: us is not like what's common in our culture, you know. 100 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: So I had a home when I was six, but 101 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't play. But I was always conscious of the 102 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: music and of the the struggle of social It's the sixties, 103 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: and my father and the musicians were trying to keep 104 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: the music alive. And they were always playing for almost 105 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: no people, and it was always southern town places. And 106 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: my father also was involved in education. He was always 107 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: struggling to get kids to come in and teach the music. 108 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: And I knew from the musicians, the feeling of them 109 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: from birth, that it was something they felt was very 110 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: important in the music and the people in our neighborhood. 111 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: Even though they didn't like the music my father and 112 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: then played like in the barbershop. My Daddy would win 113 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: the arguments and they said, man, you can't know jazz musician. 114 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: You know, they've been around the world, they know. So 115 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: I dealt with the music more from a personal standpoint. 116 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: We liked what was on the radio. R and B, 117 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,799 Speaker 1: James Brown and then Dave Motown and even before Motown 118 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: kind of like the music my father's sister like was 119 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: more like you know, Sam and Dave, real deep kind 120 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: of southern soul Tammy Terrell, Sam Cook, Sam Cook, that 121 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: was like what we heard it and that and we're 122 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: from New Orleans, so we have our new a Fats Domino, 123 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: the music that comes from our culture. But my father 124 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: and them did not play that type of music. They 125 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: played serious jazz. They were improvising, real along and my 126 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: mother was always funny describing them. She said, I took 127 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: I took two of my girlfriends to your dad's gig 128 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: and child they played. The first song was any Minutes, 129 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: and my my friends are looking at me saying, girl, 130 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: what in the world are they playing? And then your 131 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: daddy didn't say a word. And Alvin Battiso was a 132 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: great clarinet as he's passed away, but he could really 133 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: play like a Coltrane. And Alvin Battiss played another long 134 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: solo and he didn't stop to do Do Do Do Do 135 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: Do Do Do Do Do, And your Daddy didn't say 136 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: a word. And then he played the third song and 137 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: they played Old Lord. After the third song, my friends 138 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: looked at me and say, a girl, you must love him. 139 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: And you know, so my daddy and them they were 140 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: they were they were going uphill with the music, and 141 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: I like them because they had a kind of feeling 142 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: like they would hug each other, they knew people, people 143 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: came from broad I met all the great jazz musicians, 144 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, Dizzy Gillespie, R. Blakey, Sarah Vaughan, Witty Herman. 145 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: Another thing is I grew up with extreme racism and 146 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: prejudice and ignorance in Kenna, Louisiana, and New Orleans. But 147 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: the jazz musicians were not like that. They had a 148 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: vibe like we were not like the rest of this. 149 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: If you grew up in an ignorant environ it was 150 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: very different. It was stark, you know. So that's kind 151 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: of what I would attracted me to music. It's jazz 152 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: an escape from racism. It is a way to address it. 153 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: Jazz was a way for people, even in the earlier years, 154 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: to come together and communicate with each other and work 155 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: on the healing process that was genuine and honest. Jazz 156 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: makes it so that you and I can talk and 157 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: I don't have to I don't have to do all 158 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: the stuff people have to do in our culture even today, 159 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: or cheesing and grinning and smiling over nothing, making up stuff, 160 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: lying and bullshit, and we don't I don't have to 161 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: do that. You know. My father was like a person 162 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: that came from out of space or something that was 163 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: put down in his environment. And I saw a picture 164 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: of him with a Cliff of Brown album when he 165 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: was a teenager, you know, just in his hand. I 166 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: could just look at the picture. I just saw him, 167 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: like I said, eating have nothing to do with what 168 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: was going on. And he loved Charlie Parker and he 169 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: loved Cliffor Brown. He loved the music. It's kind of 170 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: intellectuals a person black person, kind of his generation with 171 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: an intellectual inclination. They would lean towards jazz, and he liked, 172 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: uh the style of jazz that was not that popular, 173 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: but they had all the greatest musicians in the Monk 174 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: and Duke Ellington and Basie and so he he just 175 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: was attracted to it. He did not have a large 176 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: number of people. He started playing saxophone R and B saxophone. 177 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: He was walking to bar and playing like when people 178 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: played in the mid fifties. But he loved the music 179 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: and he changed it to piano. I said, well, what 180 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: do you changed the piano? He said, piano players eat 181 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: when saxophone players starve. So he he he became, you know, 182 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: and and did he encourage discourage or he just was 183 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: neutral about your musical education? You know? Did he push? 184 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: Shoot me? Man? I love my father so much, Like 185 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: it's it's hard for me to even think about him 186 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: or talk about him without getting full and crying. And 187 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: note that my father is is old, he's sick. And 188 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: I think to myself, even at this age, man, what 189 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: am I gonna do when my father dies? Like I'm 190 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: not gonna have a person to to play for. Like 191 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: I can't describe y'all of love I had for my father, 192 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: Like I went with him on gigs. He was always alone. 193 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: So I want to make it just about my experience. 194 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: I sat in a car with a man and we 195 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: would drive forty five minutes to some place. He played 196 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: like in a in a club would be like three 197 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: people in it. And he did it for years, and 198 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: I would be, man, why are you doing this? You 199 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: know what? What is the value of this? Nobody cares 200 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: about this. I joined the funk band when I was thirteen, 201 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: and me and my brother could make twice the money 202 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: our father could make, not together, both individually, and he 203 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: was so much great in us. We couldn't even tease 204 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: him about that. And he was such a non petty. 205 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: He is such a non petty not just such an 206 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: encouraging kind of just so taught. Everybody wasn't just me. 207 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: I don't care who it was, anybody, Harry Connick, Donald Harrison, 208 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: Terrence Blanchett, all the musicians came down. They'd be in 209 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: my house study with my father. He being a community 210 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: teaching people. And he was so for real and he 211 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: has such a deep kind of spirituality and never complained, 212 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: live hard life, struggle, didn't make money, was not known 213 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: just but just he was always in there for you. 214 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: So I just one story I tell about my father. 215 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: When I came to New York. I was coming to 216 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: represent my father, not practice, because my father wanted to 217 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: come to New York. My father always gave me good advice. 218 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: My false the least prejudiced person in the seventies and 219 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: everybody be black power and all of that. My father 220 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: wasn't a tom He wasn't the type of person was 221 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: always white folks, all right, now that but he never 222 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: I saw him sit in rooms full of only black 223 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: people and defend white people. And I would say, man, 224 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: why are you always he said, man, you never attacked 225 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: people who are not there. You know, people don't understand 226 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: about humanity. He had always had a larger sense, and 227 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: I saw him live that. But I came to New 228 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: York and I got a lot of publicity when I 229 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: was young. I became really well known. Eighteen nineteen twenty 230 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: was unheard of for somebody actually trying to play, and 231 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: I didn't expect that. So I came back to New 232 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 1: Orleans and the older musicians were very very hard on me. Well, 233 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: I growed up in jazz and I talked a lot, 234 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: so you know, I had opinions and views, and I 235 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: expressed them. So it's not like I didn't deserve for 236 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: them to do how they did be So I wasn't 237 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: some innocent being treated it alright that I had mused 238 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: him opinions. I was outspoken. I said what I had 239 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: to say. They didn't like it, okay. But I came 240 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: back home and I played a gig with my father, 241 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: and my father made me stand like on the bench 242 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: stand for a long time, and since I was a 243 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: little boy, he always let me sit in So, man, 244 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: I sat on the bench and I was kind of 245 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: started to kind of see you know, man, my daddy 246 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: gonna even him. He's mad because I got some publicity. 247 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: They think I'm making more money. And then I got 248 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: to the last song, my daddy called me up. Man. 249 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: I was so mad. I walked up. I played a 250 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: couple of choruses and I was looking at him like, damn, 251 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: not you too. And as we walked off the stage, 252 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: my father put his arm around me and he said, man, 253 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, my rhythm section was so sad. I really 254 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: didn't even want to call you up. And I looked 255 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: at him and I just had to laugh, and like, 256 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: this is a man who was never small home. I 257 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: don't care what the instance was. He was never small. 258 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: He was uh he he is a man of deep philosophy, curiosity, 259 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: and honesty. And when I left home, it was I mean, 260 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: we were contentious in my home. You know, my mother. 261 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: I was always fighting with my mama, really a lot 262 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: over my daddy. And when I was sixteen, me and 263 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: my men and my mother was fighting so much. My 264 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: daddy sat me in a car and he said, hey, man, 265 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to work this out with your mama. 266 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: I said, man, mama does this and this and that. 267 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: Man she's messing with you. Man. Blah blah blah blah blah. 268 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: He said, Man, you don't understand what I'm telling you. 269 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: You need to work this out. Work it out, man, 270 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: gee bloom. He said, if mama leave, nobody pays these bills. 271 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: We don't eat, homework don't get done, children don't get raised, 272 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: and one of your brothers is artistic. If you leave, 273 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: we have more money. But he was dead serious. He 274 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: was not playing with me. He was serious, and he said, 275 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: work this out. I'm gonna be visiting you at your career. 276 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: Your dad sounds like my dad. When did you know 277 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: this is something? This was the path you should run down? 278 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: You know? I was. I was not even the best 279 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: musician in my family, and I don't. I'm still not, 280 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: probably just technically. My brother Branford, I was always unbelievable, 281 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: learned stuff much quicker than me. And music. My little 282 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: brother Jason is like a savant with his memory and 283 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: the stuff that he knows. Um I don't. I was 284 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: always good at most at things like in school, good 285 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: playing ball, good hand eye coordination. People didn't mess with me. 286 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: Everybody like my went everywhere, and I was always around 287 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: adults and older people. People struggled. Good talk with my 288 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: mom about life, you know, because my mother was also 289 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: very philosophical and always good with dealing with people, like 290 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: it was a kind of quarterback played, always good dealing 291 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: with like disputed people want to fight a man, you know, 292 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: identifying situations. Um, I think I went into music when 293 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: I was I was playing on the basketball team actually, 294 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: and I said, man, I started like Drahn Cold Traine's music, 295 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: and he's not drumming player. But I put Trains on 296 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: and I my father was at a picture of him 297 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: and James Black and New Orleans drumming and Cold Train, 298 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: and that picture was like a shrine. Man, that's us 299 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: with Train, you know, Train that's trained. So I know 300 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: they love Train, and they would always talk about when 301 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: Train came to one of their gigs. They were playing 302 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: at the club called Vernons, and Train came into doing 303 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: that was the great saxophone player and that stood him 304 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: up in the door with that was playing it. So 305 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: I started listening to Train and that then I said, 306 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: I wonder if I could learn how to play like 307 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: these people who really can play, because we're playing phone 308 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: and playing in pop bands. But I wanted to play 309 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: like Clifford Brown, or like Train, or like how Miles 310 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: was playing, or like you know, people who actually could play. 311 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: So I felt I didn't know whether I could learn 312 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: how to play the music or not. Music is difficult 313 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: to learn how to play. It's difficult at that time 314 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: to figure out what the music was for my generation. 315 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: I never felt like I'm good, like I really can play, 316 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: because my brother could play, and the New Orleans a 317 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: lot of people could play. With le Roy Jones, a 318 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: great trumpet player, we call him Jazz. We played in 319 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: a Febue Baptist church margin band I was eight. We 320 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: had a lot of trumpet players that could play. A 321 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: lot of families could play. So you never felt that. 322 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: And with my father and the musicians, they only dealt 323 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: with quality. They didn't deal with awards, they didn't deal 324 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: with none of that. My father really has no value, sister, 325 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: mixed up? Is this for real? So when I went 326 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: to I wanted one of my first Grammy awards when 327 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: I was twenty two, and my father went to the ceremonies. 328 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: And he's not a person who's given any kind of 329 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: you know stuff when you see something's fake, he just 330 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: he don't care he's not gonna be a crmudge about it, 331 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: but he just okay, it's not about playing. So he 332 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: sat through the ceremony a loud, a bunch of nine playing. 333 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: So we're in the room after I want him talking 334 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: to him and he's looking at me. You know, yeah, man, 335 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: you want? You know I want. I was trying to 336 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: go out to the party and something. I get ready 337 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: to go out him and my mama. He said, hey, man, 338 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: he said, I'm glad you wanted stuff. He said that 339 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: was the Grammy sign. I said yeah, And he said, 340 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: you don't think this means you can play, do you? 341 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: So of course I didn't think it, especially in front 342 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: of him, because he knew whether you could play or not. 343 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: And I was actually in my forties. One time I 344 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: was playing something and my daddy said, man, I read 345 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: you on the radio. You ain't learned how to play 346 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: on changes yet. And he was serious, he was seriously 347 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: and it was actually a two way. I was kind 348 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: of shaking on the changes of the song. I said, Man, 349 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: I didn't even know the song. I just he said, man, 350 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: you got to you have to work on your years. Man. 351 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: Wynton Marsalis, Artistic director of Jazz at Lincoln Center. Another 352 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: greatest of his generation instrumentalist I've spoken to is violinist. 353 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: It's a Perman. His pleasures these days are, oddly enough, 354 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: mostly musical. Now that I'm old. There's no food after 355 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: eight o'clock, you know, if if I pay for it, 356 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: if you can't eat after, I can't eat it. But 357 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: then in the middle of the night give vault. So no, no, no, 358 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: no food. But you grew up. Food was everything. Food 359 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: was everything, very very guiding force in your life because 360 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: you grew up kind of poor, correct, very The rest 361 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: of my conversation with Itsak Perlman is in our archives 362 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: at Here's the Thing, Dot org more with Wynton Marsalis 363 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: in a moment, this is Alec Baldwin and you're listening 364 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. When did Marsalis grew up in 365 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: a household teaming with the greatest jazz musicians of the 366 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: era thanks to his pianist father. I, on the other hand, 367 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: came to appreciate the genre through other means. For me, 368 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: the portal for jazz was a movie, the movie Lenny 369 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: with Dustin Hoffman, where Dustin Hoffan played Lenny Bruce and 370 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: they just had the most beautiful soundtrack, and they remember 371 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: sitting there watching the movie they play. It never entered 372 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: my mind. I remember sitting there going, oh my god, 373 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: this is so beautiful. You know, are there any movies 374 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: that speak to you in the world you're in? Is 375 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: a movie you saw you thought was a good movie 376 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: about the world that you're in? You know, most of 377 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: the jazz movies I didn't like. Really you didn't. Why 378 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: what was missing? Corny? You know what I mean? I 379 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: knew the jazz musicians, so you know, when you're and 380 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: it's like I do something about actors, you're gonna be like, 381 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: that's that's what you think it is, but it's not. 382 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: But I love when people attempt to do it right, 383 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: you know. But I think that I like Elia Kazan's movies, 384 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, just baby Doll facing the crowd. But Bird 385 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: and movies like that, No, you know, no, because I 386 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: just the music didn't have the power, and the musicians 387 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: were always made to seem less than what they are 388 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: because they had a bird. Bird got high, okay, but 389 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: Bird was not. It was not a child, and he 390 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: wasn't treated like a child by people who are around him. 391 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: So it failed to convey birds magnetic power and the 392 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: power of his genius. Every person you ever talked to 393 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: who knew birds, did man? Everybody just Jerry Mulligan told 394 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: me a story about bird. He said, Bird was always late. 395 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: He was a drug addict. He always had mustard on 396 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: his tie. He was always he said, So once we 397 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: were sitting to Jazzy's Philharmonic. All the greatest saxophone players 398 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: in the world, he says, you got Johnny Hodges. Me. Uh, 399 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 1: he just named the greatest saxophe players you ever heard of, 400 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: He said. Everybody saying wears bird or bird is late? Pird? 401 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: Is this the insulting bird talking about bird? He's just 402 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: so we're all warming up like noways of eight horn 403 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: players place. All of a sudden, Bird comes in late. 404 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: Everybody's pretending like they don't see him. He said. Bird 405 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: took his horn out and put put it together and 406 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: played a scale. He went, he says, like the most 407 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: perfect scale you ever heard in your life. He said. 408 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: Everyone stopped at the same time and looked at Bird. 409 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: And that was our critique of ourselves, because there was 410 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: not another one of us who could have made the 411 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: rest of us do that. So I think it's hard 412 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: to convey Black Americans. They convey the actual power and 413 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: accuracy of jazz musicians, the depth of food they are, 414 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: and then you manity and what they understand and how 415 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: deep it it is, and who was the loneout monk 416 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: or it's too easy to talk about his hat. It's 417 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: too easy to talk about When I read the Time 418 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: magazine article on Monk, it was all about people eccentricities 419 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: and when Myles left for concert or and the music 420 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: is extremely difficult to play, and that's why we still 421 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: keep trying. Over time, we've shifted and taken many of 422 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 1: the fundamentals out to make it easier. But that's why 423 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: when you listen to the records, as I tell my 424 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: young students, I'm glad they're here with filling all them 425 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: because they're the most talented young people in the world. 426 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: This is hard. When I give Anthony Solos to learn, 427 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: he could already play when I heard him when he 428 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: was fourteen. It's hard to play like he plays. He's 429 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: a trump player. Unbelievable, he can play. I'm not saying it, 430 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: and I tell him that if he's just in my 431 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: house and I'm talking to him, it is difficult to play. 432 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: You're gonna be fifty. It's hard. So you have to 433 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: these fundamentals, this stuff, these things. Learn these things thoroughly. 434 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: No one will know whether you can play these things. 435 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: No one will care about that. You may be the 436 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: only person you know who cares about whether you can 437 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: play or not, who can evaluate you are playing. Develop 438 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: an independent sense of integrity, and train yourself to death 439 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: and and yeah, yeah, you know. I do a play. 440 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: I do a play one time. And I said, someone 441 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: said to you, what's the goal? What are you after? 442 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: What what are you doing, you know, beyond getting a paycheck? 443 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: And I said, I want the perfect show. They said, 444 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: what's the perfect show? I say, I say every line 445 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: as written in order, and I say them the way 446 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: that I think they should be said. I mean, I'm 447 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: really concentrating. And I walk off stage at the end 448 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: of the show and there's a prop table and I 449 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: took a cigarette and I lit a cigarette. I looked 450 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: at the stage manager and I said, well, there you 451 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: have it, I said, my perfect show. I did it 452 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: once one show, but you always aim me and I 453 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: and I said, to what is his naming? That trumpet 454 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: player Anthony Anthony? I went up to Anthony before and 455 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: I said, you know, I grew up in an age 456 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: of you know, al Her and uh Armstrong. I said, 457 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: guys who were trying, you look like something that those 458 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: guys would have had for lunch. You know what I mean? 459 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: Where where does a person get that training, this little 460 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: bantam of a man to get that wind? I asked him. 461 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: But it's the secret. You know when you look at 462 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: the trumpet players, like ray Nance was small, Miles was little, 463 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: it's spiritual, like its spiritual weight of your sound. What 464 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: you're projecting is a spiritual thing. It's like when you 465 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: when you see people when they've passed away, you notice 466 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: how small they are. You always say, damn it really 467 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: small when they animated and you know you're not holding 468 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: their breath in the bathtub like a pearl diver. You 469 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: you got that minute long long tone. I always tell 470 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: them it's an exercise we have and say, you hold 471 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: that long tone. To you, it's like life. You hold 472 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: that long tone till the end of your breath. So 473 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: let's say you can hold a long tone for forty 474 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: five seconds. When you hit forty five seconds the end 475 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: of your breath, now that's when the long tone starts. 476 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: So if you get fifteen seconds after that, you did 477 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: a fifteen second long tone. If you get twenty seconds, 478 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: you did twenty second long jone. Because the long terone 479 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: you challenge your breath when you don't have any left. 480 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: And that's how you have to approach your integrity. And 481 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: uh that long done is a microcosm of just life. 482 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: You become very successful. You become very successful when you're 483 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: very young. And you've been at the top of this 484 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: game for a long long time now. And uh, people 485 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: talked about you as you know, uh, the new jazz age, 486 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: and and you were a part of I don't think 487 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: that you would allow anybody to say, even though it's 488 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: probably partly true that you were alone in this endeavor, 489 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: but you were a part of the rebirth of jazz 490 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: as a very popular music form in this country and 491 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: around the world. Where would just say we are now 492 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: with jazz? What's the state of jazz now? Yeah? I 493 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: think I was never really part of it being popular 494 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: or even but I feel like I was a movement 495 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: towards quality. And I think we still have a long 496 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: way to go because our nation is going in the 497 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: opposite direction and we've going in opposite direction with education, 498 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: opposite direction with our mythology. We're going to opposite direction. 499 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: So we have to double and triple down. And that's 500 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: also why I love to see my younger people. And uh, 501 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: I feel I feel that part of what we try 502 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: to do here, Jess Lincolnson and and what you do 503 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: with the Philharmonica whatever. You know, there's so many people 504 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: on the country working in the arts and teaching and 505 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: doing all the things they do. It's true. It's a 506 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: qualitative thing. You teach a class, you're talking to younger people, 507 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: you just talk to somebody else, you pass it on 508 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: and you're you're invariably talking with them about quality. Check 509 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: this out, study this, try to be do this. You're 510 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: gonna find this. And that was always my proposition. Let's 511 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: start to talk about this, and you obviously become famous 512 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: and everybody knows you who you are and your brother 513 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: as well. How this start? A lady from Visitors Services 514 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: and Lincolnson and named Elena bloom God called me. This 515 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: is the six She said, can you can you? Can 516 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: you do some concerts? It it uh at Lincoln Center 517 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: in August. I said, well, how many concerts? She said, three? 518 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: She said, you know, we can't pay. You said, but 519 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: at that time I was doing two hundred and I 520 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: don't know, two twenty concerts a year. So I had 521 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: three concerts, no problem, you know, I just need you 522 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: to program and book some people and this They had 523 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: no problem. You know. I booked the people something for 524 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: jazz and the halls great. I mean I didn't I 525 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: didn't know what it was. So we booked concert Women 526 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: in Jazz was one, and then Darth and Kirk was 527 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: a partner of ours from w B G. Oh. It 528 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: was all very local, you know. We just all knew 529 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: each other. We were talking, can you can we call someone? 530 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: So musicians we knew. I called different people. We had 531 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: a bud pole bird. We did different I didn't. We 532 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: played in the hall in Alice. It was over and 533 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: Alice Tully Hall and that was seven. It was okay. 534 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: The next year I said, I wonder if we could 535 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: do Gellington's music, not like this big band music. We 536 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: never played it, so I said, let's call this guy. 537 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: We called them and we said, man, can we uh 538 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: could we call Norris Tourney. We just started naming old 539 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: old Ellingtonians and most of I thought they had passed on, 540 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: and every time my name, somebody said, well we could, 541 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: we could call them, we could call them. Then I 542 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: was twenty six years old, twenty seven, damn, I walking 543 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: in the room. Next year, Man, there's no there's Norris Turney, 544 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: britt Woodman Clark, Terry, Jimmy Hamilton's I mean, I was 545 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: just looking, man, we're gonna play with these people played 546 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: on all these unbelievable records from ninety five too. Man, 547 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: we sat down to play. We didn't want to play 548 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: their music at all, and they started cussing us out, 549 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: and you know, the main thing I was saying, y'all 550 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: play too loud, you know. And then we got questionable 551 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: reviews about why we were playing Duke Ellington's music. Wasn't 552 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: the playing Then when I noticed, Okay, these group of 553 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: people kind of jazz cricks. There are enemies. So if 554 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: they say you shouldn't play Duke Ellington's music, let's do 555 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: two nights next year. Next year, we did two nights 556 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: to Duke Kellington. Then we started to do Duke Kellington's music. 557 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: And then a guy named Gordon Davis approached me, said 558 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: he want to form a committee around jazz and I 559 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: sat in the first meeting. I didn't know anything about 560 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: this raising money and talking to people in jazz Lincoln Center, 561 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: and and I just knew this was gonna be some 562 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: free concerts I had to play. So we sat in 563 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: the meeting and it was interesting, Okay, these are people 564 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: from the community who are going to help us build 565 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: a program around jazz. And they said, we need you 566 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: to come up with the program. Said, okay, I would 567 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: just take the same thing that I'm doing on the road, 568 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: because I was then. I had already and I was 569 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: going to five or six schools a day. Then I 570 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: would just call schools and say, I'm a musician. Do 571 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: you need me to come? They be we don't want that. 572 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: And I had already had ten years of experience. It 573 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: was rough. I was just on the road rough, and 574 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: they calling people going to schools teaching their kids because 575 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: I saw my father do it. Basically, then we started 576 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: to put it in place. Man. I looked up Jack 577 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: Ruten is a developer. I'm talking to him about like 578 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: what it was like to fight in World War two, 579 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: politics in New York City, or what the internal things 580 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: is and and and we're talking about stuff I didn't 581 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: talk about what other of your officer and Ed Bradley 582 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: is on the board. Man, we're talking about this and 583 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: that it so just said you such. I'm at Ernigan. 584 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: We're talking and we're arguing about this. And then I 585 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: started to go through the board members. These people are 586 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: gonna give money and time to jazz. Man. People only 587 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: take stuff from jazz. Beverly Seals goes on a call 588 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: with me to raise some money and she she says, 589 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: I brought this guy to talk about Jameson. I don't 590 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: like jazz, and she asked the man for a million dollars. 591 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: I thought she was crazy, and he said, I'll give 592 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: you a million. I was to get out of my office, 593 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: and I mean, the whole thing was like then, of 594 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: course I talked to Dinny Gillespie and then we're trying 595 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: to build this program. We got a chance to do 596 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: this because Dizney was always one of the smartest people 597 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: you ever talked to. If you could get him to 598 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: actually tell you something and he knew it was serious, 599 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: you could not have a higher level of understanding than 600 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: Dizney Gillespie. Okay, so then he wasn't joking enoughing I 601 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: said uh, you know, big band is not the former 602 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: music I grew up in us the jazz linca center. 603 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: We're trying to do this and that. He said, one 604 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: should not consider it an achievement to lose one's orchestral 605 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: music and jazz. We always considered our orchestrame music to 606 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: be lower. So it's part of the kind of brainwashing 607 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: it takes place. And I thought, well, you you played 608 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: in small bands. He said, if I could have kept 609 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: my big band together, I would have never disbanded. It 610 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: was a struggle, he said, developed that big band. So 611 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: on his word, really, I said, okay, I'll give up 612 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: what I'm doing and do this. And then we all 613 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: started to work together. So the kind of defining thing 614 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: for me in my life was the quality of people 615 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: I had a chance to work with putting jazz Lyn 616 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: Consenta together. And then when did this become the vision? 617 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: This floor of this building and a big nut you 618 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: gotta raise. I mean, that's facing is not some little 619 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: clubs somewhere, and it's been attacked for not being that 620 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: so many times. We all of us would take the 621 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: attack of us wanting to keep us in the ghetto 622 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: and ghetto wise us and make us accept less and 623 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,959 Speaker 1: be proud to accepted and defined us by the less. 624 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: So this is the most piece of steel ever designed 625 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: that leaves this glass wall back to get acoustics. We 626 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: heard there was a room in the Canary Islands that 627 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: was made of glass, so we studied that room in 628 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: the back room rolls based on an Italian opera house. 629 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: You go to these Italian cities and you play these 630 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: opera houses. Local our proms that that oval shape, that 631 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: shape works, that's perfect. We're gonna have that shape. And 632 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: our club is just a like like a clubs you 633 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: have in the Mediterranean. We kind of sound and floor 634 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: and would So we started to develop our understanding of 635 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: how these spaces would work. The level of dedication was 636 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: unbelievable and well even the electricians. We ran out of 637 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: money and I had to have a meeting with town 638 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: a man. We ran out of money, and the guy 639 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: was was messing what he said, you ran out of money. 640 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: Well this is New York, buddy. You know we're not 641 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: gonna be able open. I don't know what to tell you. 642 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: We need our we need our our damn money man. 643 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: You know you will be just invent some money. So 644 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: He looked at me with standing right over here in 645 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: the building. He said, he said, look, man, I lived 646 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: down the street from John Cold Drane's house on Long Island. 647 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: We're gonna finish this. They finished it. So as many 648 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: things like that in New York things. And the last 649 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: thing I want to cover with you is about education 650 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: and about the future. When you talked about calling up 651 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: schools and wanted to give it away and so forth. Uh, 652 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: you went to Julian and have you talked Did you 653 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: teach jazz at Juilliard? Yeah, I mean I run the 654 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: jazz program at Juilliard. At Juliard, you know, I went 655 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: there in seventy nine and eighty. And I also had 656 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: a rough time there. Why he has a brother and um, 657 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: you know it's rough. It's just culturally. I'm from New Orleans. 658 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: I was always like, oh, I was, you know, like 659 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: I am right now. I was like that. And I 660 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: had a running with a conductor the first performance we're 661 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: playing the writer spring Man. Every time I played the 662 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: guy stopped orchestras. The first trumpet, first trumpet. First trumpet 663 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: has a great part to the writers bring. You get 664 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: to just bounce high k notes off the wall. So 665 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: he got to where it was just every time stopped, 666 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,479 Speaker 1: first trumpet play, I played high pea must play these 667 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: high parts, and the orchestra shuffles when they like how 668 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: you play something. So after a while orchestra started to 669 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: kind of go on my side. They were like shuffling 670 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: the guy just so, I said. I went to see 671 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: the assistant uh dean. His name was Brunelli. I said, Brunelli, 672 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: I wouldn't need you to take me off of this piece. Man. 673 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: This guy's like, I can't. I'm I'm my freedom after 674 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: whippers behind because I can't. I'm not from there. I 675 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: can't deal with this. Every time he stopped, and he's 676 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 1: saying I'm a musical and all this stuff. And if 677 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: Brunelli looked at me, he's older guy, also a World 678 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: War Two veterans. He said myself, I hear you from 679 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: New Orleans. I said yeah. He said, you know, I 680 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: always wanted to get down there. How's that gumbo? I said, 681 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: it's good, man, he said, and I got up and 682 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: went back to rehearse. Okay, he was telling me something, 683 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: and what he had to tell me is, man, you here, 684 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: you know this is what this is like. Play your horn. 685 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: That's what this is. So okay, I'm not talking to 686 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: any guy. I'm not doing anything. Where are you from? 687 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: From New Orleans? You candle a conductor like him? Come on, baby, 688 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: let's let's get to it. And that's you know, there 689 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: was there was no jazz there. And then I kind 690 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: of got into it with my teacher once again about racism. 691 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's always kind of if I have to 692 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: be true. But he was Italian. I loved him. Well, 693 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 1: your vociano. The deepest lesson I was ever taught in 694 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: my life was from this this man, and we he 695 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: was like a guard the trumpet players. He played the 696 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: New York Philomonic from the thirties to the eighties, and 697 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: we started to talk about racism. He told me some 698 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: kids took his backpack because he was Italian. I said, man, 699 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: let me start telling your stories about what people will 700 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: do you, you know, so I told him three ful 701 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: good choice stories from Kenna Louisiana Circle nineteen sixty nine 702 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: seventy one. He was like, damn. So every week we 703 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: would go back to this material and then I, you know, 704 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: then I kind of dropped off of school. I joined 705 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: up blaking a jazz mrs. But later, two or threes later, 706 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: I called him Vacciano because I still loved him. Your 707 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: storways telling me I was the best black student he had. 708 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: That also made me mad. So look, man, don't tell 709 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: me I'm your best black student. I'm not here to 710 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: be your black student. And you know, just general reachings 711 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: clash because I was I called everybody man. Now I 712 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: understand for him, and that was disrespectful to call him man, 713 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: But I was. I didn't even know I used the 714 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: word man all the time. She hates it. She's like, 715 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm not a man. You know, you get into that habit. 716 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: So I went to his househout in Queens and uh, man, 717 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: this house was dark, you know. And he he invited 718 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: me in and I sat down and told him I 719 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: wanted to work on my transposition and stuff. He was like, 720 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,280 Speaker 1: you don't need to learn anything about transposition, he said, uh. 721 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: He said, my wife is. My wife is at the 722 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: end of this room, and she's been an invalid for 723 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: a long time, he said, and my son died in 724 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,479 Speaker 1: an accident. We had a contentious kind of thing. He said. 725 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: When my wife dies, I'm gonna be all alone. So 726 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: he's probably in his mid mid eighties at that time. 727 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 1: And he said, you're gonna be known. You could play. 728 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: He said, you're not gonna struggle with that. He said, 729 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: but your inner life. He said, if your inner life 730 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: is unhappy, you are unhappy. Take care of your inner life. 731 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: And that was it. He said, that's your lesson. And 732 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, offer me a drink. I didn't drink at 733 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: that time. I was always in bars and stuff. I 734 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: didn't and I had alcoholism like in my family. And 735 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: but you offered me a drink of scotch. I said, okay, man, 736 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: and I pretended like I was drinking it and then 737 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: I left. So, but there have been times in my 738 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: life when I would want to choke or kill maine, 739 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: one of my kids or something, and uh what his 740 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: words will come back to me. So that's what I 741 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: took away from my Juilliard experience. And uh, with my students, 742 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: I tried to I don't see them as much as 743 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: I want to see them, but for me with them 744 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: as more person like failer, I see them anyway, I don't. 745 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: I don't just see them in school. Tell me you'll 746 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: gonna be out of school. I'm gonna see you're gonna 747 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: be thirty. I'm gonna be people I studied with their dead. 748 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: I'm still here and I try to teach them away 749 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: of life, this jazz and when I when I see them, 750 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: I love them. I hugged them and they know it. 751 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: It's no question. I'm not saying it because I'm in 752 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: front of a bunch of people. Anthony her If it 753 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: comes to my house to give less and I try 754 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,720 Speaker 1: to teach him what I love. My daddy talked people 755 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: with thank you, thank you so much, thank you, thank you. 756 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: The incomparable went to Marsalis. This is Alec Baldwin and 757 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: you're listening to here's the thing