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Speaker 1: On April tenth, two thousand and two, on Lynden Boulevard

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Speaker 1: in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn, a man named Victor

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Speaker 1: Vulcan was shot and killed in broad daylight just after

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Speaker 1: school had let out. Fortunately, no one else was heard

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Speaker 1: as people ran to their buildings for cover, including a

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Speaker 1: young father named Gary Benloss who had had prior run

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Speaker 1: ins with the police. Nine one one callers and eyewitnesses

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Speaker 1: described the shooter with short hair, dark skin, and a

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Speaker 1: similar build to the victim, who was five ten and

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty eight pounds. However, one alleged witness,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Holder, who did not give a description of the shooter,

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Speaker 1: set among other falsehoods, that the assailant's nickname was Chuckie.

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Speaker 1: Gary ben Loss was known as Chucky, but he was

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Speaker 1: over six three and two hundred and fifty pounds with

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Speaker 1: a seven inch high afro. A photo of a much

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Speaker 1: younger and slimmer Gary with short hair was put into

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Speaker 1: a photo array, eliciting an identification from Anthony Holder and

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Speaker 1: one other witness. However, once that other witness saw Gary

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Speaker 1: a trial, she too joined and all the other witnesses

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Speaker 1: in denying Gary's involvement. Holders. Pending charges for which it

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Speaker 1: is believed that he received leniency in exchange for cooperation,

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Speaker 1: were hidden by the state, and somehow the jury believed

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Speaker 1: his bizarre testimony that included a non existent second victim,

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Speaker 1: sending Gary away for twenty five to life. This is

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Speaker 1: wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrawful conviction. Today we have

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Speaker 1: a Brooklyn case dating back to two thousand and two

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Speaker 1: in which several witnesses described a gunman that looked wildly

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Speaker 1: different from our guest today, Gary Benlass, a guy that

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Speaker 1: I came to know through my friendship with a previous

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Speaker 1: guest on our show, John Adrian Velasquez. Now Gary is

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Speaker 1: joining us from Sing Sing and I'm glad you're here

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Speaker 1: with us, even though I hate the reason and why

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Speaker 1: you're here. But Gary, welcome to the show. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: You're very welcome. And with him as a man whose

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Speaker 1: voice you'll probably recognize for other appearances here with us

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Speaker 1: where he's been advocating for Nelson Cruz, Marcus Wiggins, Vincent Simmons,

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Speaker 1: and so many more. Justin bonus, welcome back.

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Speaker 2: It's great to be back on the show. Appreciate it all.

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Speaker 1: Right, So Gary, before we get into the reason why

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Speaker 1: we're here today. Can you tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your life growing up.

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Speaker 3: I was born July twenty sixth, nineteen eighty to a

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Speaker 3: proud single mother who migrated from the rural country area

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Speaker 3: of Jamaica, West Indies, moved to America where she resided

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Speaker 3: in Flatbush, Brooklyn.

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Speaker 1: And your nickname was Chucky, right, how I mean, where

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Speaker 1: does that come from?

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Speaker 3: At the age of nine, I received the nickname Chuckles.

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Speaker 3: Being poor no farther around at school, kids could be

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Speaker 3: very cruel, so as a defense mechanism, I was one

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Speaker 3: of those kids who used to old, like to joke

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Speaker 3: and laugh. That's how I got the moniker Chuckles. Always

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Speaker 3: had people laughing, always.

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Speaker 1: Joking, and that nickname ended up playing a part in

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Speaker 1: your wrong for conviction. But before all of that, in

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Speaker 1: the summer of nineteen ninety six, you had your first

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Speaker 1: encounter with one of the detectives on this case, Robert Reedy.

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Speaker 3: He knows me because on my fifteenth birthday I was

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Speaker 3: jump assaulted and hospitalized. He was actually the detective on

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Speaker 3: the case, and he wanted not just for me, you know,

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Speaker 3: to snitch on the guys that hospitalized me, but he

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Speaker 3: wanted me to become a neighborhood that snitched, so the

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Speaker 3: case against those who assaulted me never went to court,

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Speaker 3: and I never became the snitch. For a detective reading,

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Speaker 3: I said, it's not happening.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you refused to help ready, and then the

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Speaker 1: following spring you ran into some more trouble, but this

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Speaker 1: time you were the assailant.

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Speaker 3: At the age of it's to months of manche in

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Speaker 3: ninety seven, I made a very foolish mistake, but I'm

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Speaker 3: not proud. It was a lesson that I needed to learn. So,

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Speaker 3: because of growing up being poor, I followed a friend

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Speaker 3: of mine into a pizzeria to rob the pizzeria. I

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Speaker 3: took full responsibility and I copped out to one to

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Speaker 3: three years, right. And I've been haunted by the NYPD

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Speaker 3: ever since.

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Speaker 1: And I'd like the audience to take note here when

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Speaker 1: guilty people usually take plea deals it makes sense. I mean, hell,

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Speaker 1: even innocent people take plea deals if it makes more sense,

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Speaker 1: which it often does than fighting the charges, like our

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Speaker 1: friend Dieter te Hada. So you did a few years

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Speaker 1: as a juvenile in a men's present, paid your debt

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Speaker 1: to society, and after your release, you moved back in

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Speaker 1: with your mother at two eighteen Linden Boulevard and Flat Push,

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Speaker 1: where you remained on the NYPD's radar leading up to

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Speaker 1: this crime in two thousand and two. But before we

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Speaker 1: get into all those details, justin we've seen this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing before more than once, where the cops just

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Speaker 1: grab a guy with a record, whether they did the

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Speaker 1: climb or not. And as our listeners will surely recognize, Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: especially in the eighties, nineties and into the two thousands,

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Speaker 1: was fraught with wrongful conviction cases and issues like I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't smits. Identification coerced and incentifies witnesses who made misidentifications,

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Speaker 1: sometimes knowingly by the way, and of course crazily corrupted

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Speaker 1: identification procedures. And in this case we have all of

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Speaker 1: those factors. And at the helm of the investigation we

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Speaker 1: had detectives Robert Reedy and John mcgurrit, as well as

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Speaker 1: King's County assistant DA Kyle Reeves. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've heard his name before Kyle Reeves, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Jabbar Washington. I believe Jabbar was exonerated in

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. Kyle Reeves in that case had withheld Brady

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Speaker 2: evidence witness is on the stand that testified falsely, then

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Speaker 2: Reeves push forward with prosecuting someone for murder. I believe

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Speaker 2: it was a fight of some sort, and it turned

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Speaker 2: out that the mother of the victim actually sued the

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Speaker 2: hospital for medical malpractice, wrongful death, that the hospital caused

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Speaker 2: the death. I know that he had some issues. He

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Speaker 2: left the DA's office in Brooklyn and he went to

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Speaker 2: Staten Island, and I know he had some issues in

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Speaker 2: Staten Island with witnesses and then left. And now he's

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Speaker 2: in private practice. So he has a history of prosecuting

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Speaker 2: cases that he shouldn't and two not turning over exculpatory material.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd like to point out prior misconduct just

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Speaker 1: to give the audience an idea of who we were

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Speaker 1: dealing with. But to be fair, Reeves doesn't really sound

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Speaker 1: like an outlier. Knowingly prosecuting innocent people and heidek exculpatory

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Speaker 1: evidence to make it stick sounds like the usual playbook

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Speaker 1: in New York.

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Speaker 2: It's a little different because it's a lot harder to

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Speaker 2: catch them, and he's been caught. New York is different

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Speaker 2: in that there's usually no forensic investigation, no paper, right,

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Speaker 2: no paper trail, whereas a lot of other places, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of paper here. These are very short, choppy statements.

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Speaker 2: The police don't write as much down. And then prosecutors,

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Speaker 2: even when the case falls apart, they are able to

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Speaker 2: hang their hat on somebody like Anthony Holder, who's the

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Speaker 2: only witness that testified at trial A Garribin Lost committed

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Speaker 2: this murder.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to talk a lot more about this

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Speaker 1: alleged eyewitness, Anthony Holder. And I say alleged because his

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Speaker 1: description of the crime conflicted with both reality and with

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Speaker 1: every other eyewitness, all of whom corroborated each other, and

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Speaker 1: none of whom described or ultimately identified Gary in person. Now,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Holder was a building super right who were intended

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Speaker 1: on Gary's block, And he's the guy who's credited with

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Speaker 1: throwing Gary's nickname Chucky to the cops right into the

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Speaker 1: mix after the crime. Gary, did you know this guy Holder?

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Speaker 3: So Anthony Holder is the super of I believe two

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Speaker 3: of the buildings on Linden Boulevard across the street from

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Speaker 3: my So I didn't live there, but my friends did,

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Speaker 3: so I'm visiting them. Anthony Holder never used to like

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Speaker 3: when my friends and I will hang out on the stool.

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Speaker 3: So in the courtyards of the building, it wasn't like

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Speaker 3: we was causing any disruption being disrespectful.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so he didn't like you, but he didn't have

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Speaker 1: a real beef with you, but maybe he didn't care

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Speaker 1: if he used you to stay at of prison. That's

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Speaker 1: what it seems like to me. As it becomes clear

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Speaker 1: much later, Holder had some pending charges for which he

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Speaker 1: likedly received leniency for his testimony in this case, but

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Speaker 1: a trial, that deal was when you've heard this before,

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Speaker 1: that deal was hidden by assistant DA Kyle Reeves. And

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Speaker 1: now here we are, so let's get to the climate itself.

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Speaker 1: This was April tenth, two thousand and two, a sunny

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Speaker 1: spring day, on Linden Boulevard in Flatbush, Brooklyn. Now this

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Speaker 1: is a broad street with an east and westbound side,

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Speaker 1: a turning lane down the middle street, parking on either side,

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Speaker 1: so about five lanes of cars, wife, you can picture that,

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Speaker 1: and there are apartment buildings on either side, so tons

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Speaker 1: of people in the area. It's a bustling street scene.

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Speaker 1: And the shooting happened in front of two h one

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Speaker 1: Linden Boulevard where you lived, across the street and down

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Speaker 1: the block at number two eighteen.

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Speaker 3: So it's about three and a afternoon. The weather extremely nice,

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Speaker 3: the blocks are extremely extremely busy. People are out enjoying

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Speaker 3: the weather. School is letting out. As I am approaching

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Speaker 3: my building, the first blunch shot right now, and that's

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Speaker 3: when I started seeing everybody starting to run, and I

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Speaker 3: ran right into my building.

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Speaker 1: And according to corroborating eyewitness accounts, two men, the victim

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Speaker 1: in this case, Victor Vulcan, and the shooter got into

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Speaker 1: an argument welcome was shot four or five times, and

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Speaker 1: then a mail carrier, a woman named let them in.

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Speaker 1: Voten gave police a description, as did another woman named

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Speaker 1: Paula Edgehill, who called nine one one and spoke to

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Speaker 1: a dispatcher.

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Speaker 2: So you had let him and Boltsen, who's the mail carrier,

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Speaker 2: and the nine one one callers, who described the shooter

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Speaker 2: as a dark skin five foot eight short hair let

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Speaker 2: him and Boden actually, in a statement to police, described

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Speaker 2: the shooter as similarly built to the victim in the case.

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Speaker 1: Now, the victim, Victor Vulcan, was one hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: eight pounds, so the nine one one call, and Boten's

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Speaker 1: accounts corroborated each other. Now, Gary, what did you look

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Speaker 1: like at this time?

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Speaker 3: I was about six three two fortys and I had

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Speaker 3: a very large afro and I'm light skinned.

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Speaker 2: No one describes the afro. That's the other major major issue.

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Speaker 1: I mean, was this like a close cropped afro? How

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Speaker 1: much volume are we talking about here?

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Speaker 3: It would have to be roughly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So that's a remarkable haird like. I mean, people

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Speaker 1: aren't gonna miss a seven inch i afro. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: this giant discrepancy didn't seem to matter to Anthony Holder

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Speaker 1: or the detectives, and later didn't matter either to the

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Speaker 1: prosecutor in the case. So what did Anthony Holder's statement

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Speaker 1: to police say? This alternate version of events.

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Speaker 2: And Anthony Holder says that Chucky is talking to some girls.

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Speaker 2: They say, get at him, Chucky. Nobody else describes this,

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Speaker 2: by the way. Then he says that Chucky begins to

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Speaker 2: argue with this guy and pulls a gun out of

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Speaker 2: a bag and then shoots the guy and Anthony Holder

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Speaker 2: he doesn't describe Gary at all, and he never gives

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Speaker 2: a description. See all he does, Anthony Holder is drop

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Speaker 2: a nickname, and the police know the nickname because they're

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Speaker 2: familiar with Gary.

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Speaker 1: And we're not even sure who brought up the nickname first.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps Anthony Holder decided to trace information false information, let's

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Speaker 1: call it what it is, about a neighborhood guy who

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Speaker 1: he didn't really like in exchange for leniency and his

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Speaker 1: pending charges, or the lead detectives who knew Gary from

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Speaker 1: both previous incidents when he was an assault victim who

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Speaker 1: refused to snitch and then the robbery. Now, of course

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Speaker 1: I'm referring to detectives Robert Reedy and John mcgerrin.

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Speaker 3: It was recently going over the DD fives I've come

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Speaker 3: across John mcgurn's DD five. He says that he was

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Speaker 3: at two eighteen Lyndon Boulevard when he received information that

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Speaker 3: the shooter is a guy by the name of Chuckles.

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Speaker 3: Only people that use the name Chuckles is people that

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Speaker 3: went to elementary school with me. Anthony Holden never said Chuckles.

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Speaker 3: Anthony Holder says Chucky. So before John mcgarran we see

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Speaker 3: any information in regards to the shooter, he was already

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Speaker 3: at two eighteen the shooting ALFM at two oh one.

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Speaker 3: Lend En Boulevard. We have nine to one one calls

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Speaker 3: police reports. It says the shooter ran into one eighty

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Speaker 3: Lendon Boulevard. It was never a police call to respond

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Speaker 3: to too eighteen. Why are you at two eighteen? Right?

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Speaker 1: The nine one one call said one eighty Linden Boulevard.

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Speaker 1: But McGurn went straight to your building and claimed to

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Speaker 1: hear that the assailant was named Chuckles, your original nickname

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Speaker 1: that had evolved into Chucky over time.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, McGurn already knew who I was the same way

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Speaker 3: detective really already knew who I was.

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Speaker 1: So this isn't definitive proof, but it certainly looks like

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Speaker 1: they were immediately directing the investigation towards you without cause

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Speaker 1: either way. Your nickname was now part of this investigation.

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Speaker 2: And then they take this and they and they with it,

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Speaker 2: and they put a photo array together very soon after

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Speaker 2: the shooting. And why the photo array was really important

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Speaker 2: is because the picture of Gary is of when he

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Speaker 2: was I believe eighteen years old. By the time he

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Speaker 2: was twenty one, he was much heavier than he was

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Speaker 2: when he was eighteen. He didn't even look like the

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Speaker 2: same person, and he had short hair when he was eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Oh, right, So they showed this misleading photo array with

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Speaker 1: an eighteen year old slimmer looking Gary importantly with no

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Speaker 1: afro but short hair instead. Right, as the witnesses that

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Speaker 1: initially described the assailant, I mean, it's it's so dirty,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing. And the mail carrier let him in boten

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Speaker 1: looking at this old photograph gave a tepid identification, right,

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Speaker 1: and the incentivized alleged witness, Anthony Holder, gave an idea

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Speaker 1: as well. Now, Anthony Holder also allegedly told him that

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Speaker 1: the shooter had a black Duffel back. No other witnesses

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Speaker 1: reported seeing this, and in the continued effort to get

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Speaker 1: to Gary, investigators put pressure on a guy from your building,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Roger Isaac, who at about five eight,

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Speaker 1: dark skinned with short hair, better match the description of

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Speaker 1: the shooter, and so he was snatched up shortly after

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Speaker 1: the shooting.

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Speaker 3: Roger Isaac, I feel the phone, I really do. He's

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Speaker 3: oblivious to what's going on. They jump out on him

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Speaker 3: and say he's being arrested with a murder. They bring

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Speaker 3: him down to the station in his DD five. He

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Speaker 3: saw me come into the building throw a bag into

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Speaker 3: the apartment and come right back out.

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Speaker 1: So now they have someone corroborating holder about you and

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Speaker 1: the alleged black bag. And then Roger Isaac allegedly described

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Speaker 1: you as five foot eight two hundred pounds, but again,

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Speaker 1: you're over six foot three and at least two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty at the time, and he said no thing

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Speaker 1: about your impressive afro, which is very telling because the

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Speaker 1: only picture that detectas McGurrin and Reedy had at that

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Speaker 1: time was from when you were eighteen years old. It

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Speaker 1: looks like they still thought that you were under two

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Speaker 1: hundred pounds was short hair. So they brought Roger Isaac

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Speaker 1: down to the precinct where he allegedly made this statement

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Speaker 1: implicating you carrying this non existent black tuffel bag. And

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Speaker 1: we're getting ahead of ourselves here, but at trial, this

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Speaker 1: alleged statement from the DD five unravels for the prosecution exactly.

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Speaker 3: At trial, Assistant disc Attorney Kyle Reeves is trying to

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Speaker 3: have Roger Isaac testify that he saw me run into

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Speaker 3: the building build back into the bomment, so he gives

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Speaker 3: them the DD five and that's when the cat is

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Speaker 3: that at the bat he did the DD five. He said,

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Speaker 3: I don't recall saying none of this. He says that

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Speaker 3: he was in a cell and that the police roughed

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Speaker 3: them up, assaulted mister Roger Isaenc.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like they might have just written that statement

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Speaker 1: up just for him to sign.

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Speaker 3: There was no citilature. This is typed up, and then

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Speaker 3: you have the officer's citizature, So there's no Rajah Isaac

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Speaker 3: right in and saying I dually swear of this being authentic.

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Speaker 3: There's none of that.

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Speaker 1: So this sham statement in Roger Isaac's DD five blew

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Speaker 1: up in Kyle Reeves's face at trial. But in the

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Speaker 1: immediate aftermath of the crime, this same DD five corroborated

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Speaker 1: Anthony Holder. They had already trick led him in voting

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Speaker 1: into making the ID with that phony baloney photo array.

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Speaker 1: So now they're closing in on you, but you didn't

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Speaker 1: even know it. So let's go back to the immediate aftermath.

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Speaker 1: Shots rang out, you got to safety, and after things

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Speaker 1: calmed down, you went out to handle a few errands

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Speaker 1: before your three month old son and his mother arrived

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Speaker 1: later on from Queen's. Now, at that time you had

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Speaker 1: gone to a friend's in Bushwick, when a neighborhood friend

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Speaker 1: paged you to tell you that the police had raided

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Speaker 1: your apartment.

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Speaker 3: He say, yo, the police just went into the apartment.

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Speaker 3: So I called my mother. When she goes home, the

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Speaker 3: police are still there. They asked her to sign a

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Speaker 3: consent for him to search. They already searched her ready,

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Speaker 3: so now they're using her consent to cover their eyes.

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Speaker 1: So the police legally searched your apartment looking for this

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Speaker 1: alleged black tuppel bag, but they came up empty, and

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Speaker 1: they got your mom to give consent to the search

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Speaker 1: after the fact.

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Speaker 3: So at this time, again, I'm not even aware that

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Speaker 3: someone even died. It wasn't until I speak to my mother.

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Speaker 3: She said. Detective really gave her his card for me

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Speaker 3: to call. He said, a guy was shot and killed

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Speaker 3: and they're looking to speak to me about it. I

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Speaker 3: have nothing to hide, so I called him. He said,

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Speaker 3: people are saying that you killed this guy. I said

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Speaker 3: it to him, I don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: I've just had a son. I have no reason to

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Speaker 3: be out killing anybody. He said, well, you know, let's

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Speaker 3: meet up somewhere. I said, that's not happening. I am

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Speaker 3: not comfortable meeting you guys and talk them out. Y'all

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Speaker 3: looking for me because somebody got killed. He said, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, just nick holity, change in mind.

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Speaker 1: And this is right after nine to eleven. So the

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Speaker 1: police had all these sweeping new powers from the Patriot Act,

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Speaker 1: and they triangulated your position from the cell signal and

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Speaker 1: found you over at your friends in Bushwick. But what's

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Speaker 1: weird is that they're looking for the old version of you, right,

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Speaker 1: They're looking for the eighteen year old, slimmer, short haired

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Speaker 1: Gary from the photo array, not the fully grown out,

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Speaker 1: much heavier, twenty one year old Gary with the seven

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Speaker 1: inch high afro who looks nothing close to the Eyewinness descriptions.

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Speaker 1: So both you and the police are confused. Now, can

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Speaker 1: you describe what happened during your arrest.

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Speaker 3: It's like one of those scenes, almost like the die

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Speaker 3: Hard movie. The whole block is just filled with you know,

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Speaker 3: squad cars and police officers and police officers on the

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Speaker 3: rules and the helicopters. As they were going in to

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Speaker 3: the building, I was coming out right, I'm not knowing

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Speaker 3: they're coming for me. All right, I'm going to the store,

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Speaker 3: and here go all these police officers I look at them,

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Speaker 3: they look at me. I'll go and I walk to

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Speaker 3: the store, not running. Walking. As I'm in the store,

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Speaker 3: the door opened and then a head pokes in and

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Speaker 3: he said, hey, did you just come from and he

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Speaker 3: recites the building number and I said yes. He asked

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Speaker 3: me what my name is, and I tell them my

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Speaker 3: name is Gay Bella. He said, I can please put

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Speaker 3: your hands behind your back. So again I ain't said, Oh,

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Speaker 3: my name is George Jeffrey Calvin, so I'm not evading

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Speaker 3: being identified. Does this sound like the actions of a

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Speaker 3: guilty man.

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Speaker 1: Of course not. But it's crazy because you didn't think

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Speaker 1: they were even there for you, and they thought they

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Speaker 1: were looking for a guy who could potentially fit the description.

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Speaker 1: But as we see here in your case, the description

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Speaker 1: really didn't matter to them. They just move forward anyway.

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Speaker 1: So you're arrested. Detective Reedy questioned you. You told him

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Speaker 1: what you're telling us here today, that you had absolutely

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, and then they put you

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Speaker 1: in a lineup.

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Speaker 2: But that lineup was conducted by Robert Reedy and Robert

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Speaker 2: Reedy at least one time a couple of years after

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Speaker 2: this case, admitted to essentially taining a lineup in a

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Speaker 2: photo ray and a case was thrown out on that basis.

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Speaker 2: So Robert Reedy knew who Gary was and he violated

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Speaker 2: best practices. He shouldn't have been involved with the lineup

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Speaker 2: at all, but he was.

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Speaker 3: So they take me out of the cell and now

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go for this lineup. They took the

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Speaker 3: cold I was wearing, gave me something else to put on,

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Speaker 3: and then they told me to put on a shower

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Speaker 3: cap to hide my ear. And that's when I started o.

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Speaker 3: I said hell no, I say, well, what's I doing?

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Speaker 3: And I looked at reading and I said, Ridio, you

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Speaker 3: ain't right and he just like held down his head.

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Speaker 3: At that time, I already knew what they was doing,

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Speaker 3: that they was dressing me up to fit the description

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Speaker 3: of this person that they're looking for. They gave me

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Speaker 3: a jacket. I'm like, hold on, this is not my clothes.

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Speaker 3: Oh you got you gotta put it on, and then

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Speaker 3: you're hiding my hair, Like what reason would you have

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Speaker 3: to hide my hear?

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

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00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

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00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

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00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. So they corrupted

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Speaker 1: that lineup, and ultimately both Anthony Holder big surprise, and

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Speaker 1: then the mail carrier let him in vote and identified you.

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Speaker 1: So you spent eighteen long months awaiting trial at Rikers,

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Speaker 1: away from your family and your baby son. Your lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Daniel F. Lynch got discovery, and the machinations of that

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Speaker 1: lineup started to become even clearer, confirming what you had feared.

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Speaker 3: And I said, I notices why they wanted me to

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Speaker 3: change my clothes. They wanted me to hide my head.

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Speaker 3: These witnesses are saying X, Y and Z. If this

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Speaker 3: witness says short here, they cannot put me in the

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Speaker 3: lineup with this large afro, so they have me hide it.

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Speaker 3: But now the particular witness let him in. Broughton, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna pick her first at the grand jury. And they

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Speaker 3: was questioned and let him in Broughton, she stops for

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Speaker 3: a second to say as if she wasn't sure she

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Speaker 3: picked out the right guy. So fast forward to two

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Speaker 3: thousand and three. While I'm at trial, they asked her,

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Speaker 3: did you see the shooter in the courtroom? Let him

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Speaker 3: in Broughton Unequipancies says no. So she says no at

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Speaker 3: trial and at the grand jury she wasn't sure. But

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Speaker 3: then at the time of when she's viewing the lineup,

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Speaker 3: I am presented with the shower cap hide in my

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Speaker 3: ear and with some clothing that's close enough to what

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Speaker 3: the shooter had on the day of the crime. Is

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Speaker 3: there any reason why she wouldn't have picked me out?

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Speaker 2: Two witnesses identified Gary in a lineup, and of those

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Speaker 2: two witnesses, only one of them identify him betrot, which

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Speaker 2: is Anthony Holder.

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Speaker 1: So let Himan Boten was supposed to be a prosecution

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Speaker 1: witness but ended up working in favor of Gary's defense,

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Speaker 1: just like Roger Isaac. So at that point, as this

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Speaker 1: case was crumbling in front of their eyes, all they

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Speaker 1: had left was Anthony Holder, who ended up being totally unreliable.

432
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: And we're going to get to his testimony in a minute,

433
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem like your attorney should have had

434
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: to work very hard to discredit Holder with what was

435
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: available to him.

436
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 3: On assistant this attorney Kyle Reeve's witness list, they had

437
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: Paula Edschel, that was the witness that I wanted my

438
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 3: attorney to call on my behalf. Her phone call, the

439
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 3: nine one one call, as well as her DD five

440
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 3: and her after David at the sixty seventh pist is

441
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 3: very much as fuld sorry and cruel's third party culpability.

442
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 3: The description that she gave Paula Edshell states that she

443
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: looked through her window and she saw the shooter and

444
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: the shooter was a medium height, dark skinned male. No affro,

445
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 3: So that's not me right.

446
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: But neither the prosecution nor your attorney called her as

447
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: a witness. But even without Paula Edgshell, you still had

448
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: Letterman Boten and Roger Isaac blow up their part of

449
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: the state's case. So all this left is Anthony Holder,

450
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: who never actually described the shooter. He just used your

451
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: nickname Chucky, saying that some girls were encouraging you to

452
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: get after him, meaning Victor Vulcan. And none of those

453
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: girls ever surfaced, nor did this alleged black duffle bag.

454
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: What other should your defense have poked?

455
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 2: In Holder's testimony, the inconsistencies are abound with Anthony Holder.

456
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: He says, the guy shot with the thirty eight, guy's

457
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: not shot with the thirty eight. I believe the slugs

458
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: were consistent with the twenty five. Forensically, the description that

459
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: he gives does not match up to the wounds that

460
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: the man suffers. And to be honest with you, I

461
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: don't really think anybody gives a very consistent description of

462
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: what actually happened because of how fast it happened. We

463
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 2: don't know if Vulcan was standing upright when the first

464
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: shots ring out right, But what we do know is

465
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: that there was stippling on one of the shots on

466
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: the chest, which would indicate that the shooter was very

467
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 2: close within twenty four inches. Anthony Holder says that the

468
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: shooter was four feet away.

469
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: So it would have been helpful if these wild inconsistencies

470
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: were pointed out to impeach the one the only state's

471
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: witness here was in fact their only piece of evidence,

472
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: but your attorney was not prepared to do that. However,

473
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: your attorney did present one very powerful witness Augustin Hinkson,

474
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: who had called nine to one one and corroborated let

475
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: him in voting, and Paula Edgehill's descriptions and versions of events.

476
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 3: Augustin Hinson states that the shooter and the victim is

477
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: the same height. The medical examiner at trials stated that

478
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: Victor Volcane sustained a gunshot wound to his chest and

479
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: there was no vertical for ponderance when asked what can

480
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: cause that? Is that whoever shot him with the same

481
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: height ass him. So Augustin Hinton is right on that. Now,

482
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 3: another part of his testimony is he states that when

483
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: the shoot in was going on, that he he was

484
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 3: ushering some young children away from the crime. Now, when

485
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: you get to Anthony Holder, Anthony Holder is a legend

486
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 3: that he was the one that was ushering a young

487
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: children away from the crime. But he goes on to

488
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: also say that the shooter also is responsible for shooting

489
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 3: one of those young children.

490
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: What I think is important about Holder is there's nothing

491
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: about his testimony that's true. The fact that he says

492
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: a little girl was shot at the scene, when there's

493
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: absolutely no NYPD record of a small, younger girl being

494
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: shot at the scene, a little girl was not. This

495
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: is like if a child was shot at the scene,

496
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: Gary been lost to be doing a lot more than

497
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: twenty five the life.

498
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: That's testimony had never surfaced at any time prior to trial.

499
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: That false testimony only came about when assisted just the

500
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: attorney Kyle Reeves elicited that false and inflammatory testimony from

501
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 3: Anthony Holder and then later turned around and vouched for

502
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: the authenticity of that testimony. He also presented Anthony Holder

503
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: as this super righteous citizen of society.

504
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: I mean, not only should his shaky testimony have been

505
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: seen through, but also they were hiding something, which was

506
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: that this guy had a powerful incentive to lie or

507
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: to say what the authorities wanted him to say, which

508
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: is that he was facing pending charges himself. And we

509
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: know that in a lot of these cases where these

510
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: eyewitnesses suddenly are able to make an identification, those charges

511
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: that they're facing magically go away and they're sort of

512
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: making it deal with the devil. Is that what happened here?

513
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely absolutely he had pending charges, and from our investigation,

514
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: those charges are sealed, which means at some point they

515
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: were dismissed, but they were pending while he testified, And

516
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: interestingly enough, Kyle Reeves, when asked if the man had

517
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: any pending charges, said that he'd never been arrested before.

518
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: So that sounds carefully worded. And why would any prosecutor

519
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: lie or mislead the jury about a witness's criminal history

520
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: or pending charges if not to hide a potential deal

521
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: for leniency. And when Holder's testimony is the only piece

522
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 1: of evidence against you, stacked up against all of the

523
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: independent witnesses whose testimony was in favor of Gary's innocence.

524
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: Plus Anthony Holder made an unfounded charge that a little

525
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: girl had been shot as well. If that's true, then

526
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: why wasn't Gary charged with the attempted murder of a child.

527
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: It's just.

528
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: It's just hard to see how the jury could get

529
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: this so wrong. You had Roger Isaac let him in voting,

530
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: and even without Paula Edgehill, you then had Augustin Hinkson.

531
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: I mean, was the prosecution able to say that Hinkson

532
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: was a friend of Gary's or something anything to impeach him.

533
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: I think Augustin Hickson was the most reliable person that testified.

534
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: Augustin Hinkson's relations to Gary's is just an acquaintance. Hainkston

535
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: had no dog in the race. I believe actually Hankson

536
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: is a nine to one one caller. That's how they

537
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: get to Hankson. Hankson is a real world person that's

538
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: there that they know is there from the gate that

539
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: gives a statement to them. Hinkson is adamant that Gary

540
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: was not there. I don't understand how Gary loses other

541
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: than the fact that maybe the jury believed that he

542
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: shot a little girl. I don't know. I mean that

543
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: a little girl that definitely wasn't a shot.

544
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: There's a miracle that no kids were shot, but the

545
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: fact remains that no kid was shot. But they just

546
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: made up this story, and it seems to me there's

547
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: at least a good chance that they were doing that

548
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: in order to cast this terrible light on Gary, so

549
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: that if the jury saw through the nonsense that they

550
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: were being fed, they would still say, well, this guy's

551
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: a terrible guy because he shot a child. So even

552
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: if the evidence is shaky as hell, we're still going

553
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: to go ahead and convict him. Am I am I

554
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: off base here?

555
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 2: No, No, not at all.

556
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 4: No.

557
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,239
Speaker 2: I think you're one hundred percent right. Holder was a

558
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: terrible witness, but he was enough, you know, he was

559
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: enough to sink Gary unfortunately, and that's the problem with

560
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: the American justice system, is that a single witness like

561
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: this could actually send a man in prison for twenty

562
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: five a life.

563
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: Gary was convicted of second agree murder on November twenty, two,

564
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: thousand and three. So Gary, take us inside the courtroom

565
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: and inside your heart and soul. At that moment, it was.

566
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: It was unbelievable, it was heartbreaking, It was so shattering.

567
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: My life and my world came to a halt at

568
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 3: that moment. The day I was sentenced, my family has

569
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: also been sentenced to twenty five years to life. You're

570
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 3: pretty much stripped of everything I was given. You know,

571
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 3: this new identity, the identity that the Department of Correction

572
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: wished to know me by. They don't care to know

573
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 3: who Gary ben Loss is. And if Gary ben Loss

574
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: is wrongfully convicted, they don't care about that. I'm known

575
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 3: to the Department of Corrections at zero three eight for

576
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: one five. But I'm here to tell everyone that's not

577
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: who I am talking about. A young man who was

578
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: stripped away from his family. There's a void in the

579
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 3: lives of my mother, or my sister, the mother of

580
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 3: my son, for my grandmother, my uncles, my aunts, my cousins.

581
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: So I'm not carrying this sentence alone. There's a void

582
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: that's in the life of my son, who had to

583
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: grow up without me there that I had dreams of

584
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 3: his father coming home, but he will never see that

585
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: because he had passed away before that actually happen.

586
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: This tragedy. It's almost hard to even process this right,

587
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: but I know when I was visiting you, Gary, you

588
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: showed me a letter you had gotten for your son.

589
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: Your son grew up without his dad through no fault

590
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: of yours, a no fault of his own, and yet

591
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: you managed to be a good father, a great father

592
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: from prison, as good as any could be, and he

593
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: turned out to be a fantastic kid. I saw a

594
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: letter that he wrote to you, that was a letter

595
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: that any father would love to get from their child,

596
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: where he basically said, I love you and I wish

597
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: things were different, but we're going to make up for

598
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: lost time when you come home. You're my inspiration, You're

599
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: my hero. And that letter, which I could almost not

600
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: read knowing what happened next, was just so beautiful and

601
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: powerful and The awful truth is that the day after

602
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: that you received that letter, he was killed in a

603
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: writing in an uber, just a passenger and an uber

604
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: and a random hit and run accident. I think we

605
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: should really dedicate this episode to his memory.

606
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you talk him out a very very

607
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 3: dark moment, and I had to find first within me strength.

608
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: It's a tremendous weight that I cannot imagine lifting, considering

609
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: the weight you had already lifted. Perhaps it's the strength

610
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: that you built over all that time leading up to

611
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: this even heavier moment.

612
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 3: Now, I had to find that light of redemption first

613
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 3: within me to guide me through this perilous place so

614
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 3: I can get to that plateau where I can say, listen,

615
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna let my time in here go to ways.

616
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 3: I'm not going to allow my wrong for conviction to

617
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 3: stop me from being the man that I'm supposed to be.

618
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 3: I'm gonna fight this, I'm going to win, and I'm

619
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: also going to make sure that I'm in position where

620
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 3: I can of bupers.

621
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: And I've read a bit about some of the good

622
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: things that you've done with your time on the inside.

623
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: In fact, I've witnessed some of them in person. I mean,

624
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: I've been up there and seen you doing your thing

625
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: making a difference. Can you tell us a little bit

626
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: about your work.

627
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 3: So in two thousand and six I went and I

628
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 3: actually obtained my GED Now I'm helping other individuals to

629
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: achieve their GEDs. I became a facilitator for a cultural

630
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 3: awareness class through the CAAU organization, which is a Caribbean

631
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 3: afric community. I've partaked an alternative violence program where you

632
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 3: help to mentor people to find a way to allegate

633
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 3: situations without the meanings of violence. Twenty twelve, I was

634
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: in the Electrical Trade program. I actually advanced and became

635
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 3: an IT which is called inmate program assistant. It was

636
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: an assistant to the teacher, so I became a facilitator

637
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 3: and through that also allowed me the opportunity to gain

638
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: my apprenticeship through the NCCER course, where I was able

639
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 3: to take the same type of tests and courses that

640
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: a person on the outside would so they could become electrician.

641
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 3: When I came to since immediately signed up for the

642
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 3: Mercy College Hustling program that they have here where I

643
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 3: am actually going for my bachelor's in Behavioral Science. I

644
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 3: wasn't allowing my state of mind incarceration to hold me back,

645
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 3: and I was setting down the stones for my future.

646
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 3: And I have a look back.

647
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: No, you have not. And you've brought that same proactive

648
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: and incredibly positive spirit to the work that you've done

649
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: inside with a group of guys called the AI Team,

650
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: the Actual Innocence Team, good name. Longtime listeners of the

651
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: show will remember other members of this New York based crew,

652
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: of whom are already out. I'm talking about Derek Hamilton,

653
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: Shabaka Shakur, and of course Nelson Cruz, Danny rin Khan

654
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: and yourself still remain inside. You also were friendly with

655
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: another great friend of the show and great personal friend

656
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: of mine, personal hero, I would say, I'm talking about

657
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 1: JJ Velasquez, who is another just incredibly inspirational man.

658
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 3: Being around these individuals also help to give me a

659
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: sense of hope and courage because now you no longer

660
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 3: feel alone. And we'll go to law a lotberries weill

661
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 3: research cases and we'll see what we can find will

662
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: be able to help us. Oh, that idea is a

663
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:48,479
Speaker 3: batchling issue, that's a strictly versus Washington issue. Oh, that's

664
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 3: the way the issue and that's how I started to

665
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 3: learn the law. Interestinctly. You know, it's not supposed to happen,

666
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 3: but now you can put legal theory to it. Now

667
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: it's more than just going into a call, submitting a

668
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: piece of paper and saying I didn't do it.

669
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: So you fought your case for a while this way,

670
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: and eventually Derek, Shabaka and JJ got out, and slowly

671
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: but surely you got your case in front of our

672
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: friend Justin here. So Justin, what has happened so far

673
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: in Gary's post conviction fight and where does his case stand?

674
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: Now? Okay?

675
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: Well, Gary, you know, of course he filed a direct appeal.

676
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: And what's very interesting about Gary's direct appeal is that

677
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: he's we're saying the same thing that we're saying now, right,

678
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: Gary has been consistent since day one. He filed a

679
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: motion to vacate his conviction back in two thousand and two.

680
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: One of the issues was the fact that Anthony Holder

681
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: had a criminal charge that was pending during the trial

682
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: that was never disclosed. Actually, Kyle Reeves, as per usual,

683
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: I should say, Kyle Reeves, failed to turn that over

684
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 2: and actually indicated that Anthony Holder had never been arrested

685
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 2: in his life, which was totally untrue. That just goes

686
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 2: along with Kyle Reeves's theme. But as of right now,

687
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: you know, we are really reinvestigating the forensics at the

688
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: scene and pulling all the files from the NYPD and

689
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 2: the District Attorney's office to prepare for another four point

690
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 2: forty or to go to the conviction Review Unit, which

691
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: I do think would be very interested in this case

692
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: based upon how unreliable the evidence is here that convicted

693
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: Gary and the evidence of innocence. You know, Jason, I

694
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 2: think the biggest thing is what makes a case like

695
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: Gary's very strong is the evidence that's in the possession

696
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: of the prosecutor. And when you look at that, including

697
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 2: Augustin Hinkson let him in Bolton and then a nine

698
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: to one one caller, three people all say that Gary

699
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: beIN Lost is not the shooter here, He's not the

700
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 2: person that killed Victor Vulcan. And I think that that's

701
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: overwhelming evidence of innocence in comparison to any holder. And

702
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: that's what we're working on right now is tying that

703
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: all together, both forensically and through our investigation and to

704
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: see if there's any more Brady evidence out there because

705
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: there was at least one witness that was interviewed that

706
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: was friends with Victor Vulcan that stated that Victor Vulcan

707
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 2: had beef with people from his own block. He was

708
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: not from the block where he was found murdered at.

709
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: So you know, we are investigating all these claims before

710
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: we do anything, but we're evaluating whether we go forward

711
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 2: with another motion to vacate or go to Brooklyn's Conviction

712
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: Review Unit.

713
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 1: Justin what can people do? And I'm sure people are listening,

714
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: heartbroken and angry and motivated. So what can people do

715
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: to help bring some semblance of justice for Gary?

716
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: I would say start off by reaching out to Ari Gonzales,

717
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 2: Brooklyn DA's office, and also Gary has a change dot

718
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: org page, and support the petition and continue to support

719
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: people who are like Gary. I think that's the biggest problem.

720
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 2: There needs to be more support from a broader base

721
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: in the country.

722
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 3: Right.

723
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: It has to be more than just the people that

724
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: have been affected by roomful convictions. It has to be

725
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 2: people that are just regular, average American citizens because they

726
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: need to understand that this could be you, Because it

727
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: could be you, it could be your son, it could

728
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: be your daughter. It could it could be anybody, it

729
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 2: could be you, and people need to stop acting like

730
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: that that's not a fact.

731
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: We will link in the bio to the petition and

732
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: to other information about the case. Please do click on

733
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: the link in the bio, sign the petition and get involved,

734
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: and we'll hopefully be able to publish an update to

735
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: this episode sometime and then not to distant future where

736
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: we get to speak with Gary from the outside. And now,

737
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: of course it's time to turn to the closing of

738
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: our show, which everyone knows is called closing arguments, and

739
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: this is where I thank you guys again. I'm going

740
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: to turn over to you first, justin for your thoughts,

741
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: any other thoughts you want to share, and then of

742
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: course hand off to Gary and he'll take us off

743
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: into the sunset.

744
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: The first thing that we really need to consider in

745
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: this case is because it happens over and over and

746
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: over again in identification cases, is where there's a description

747
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: that does not match the person that they end up arrestling. Obviously,

748
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 2: common sense says that the suspect should match the description

749
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: that the witnesses say was the perpetrator, and Gary's case

750
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: is very typical, especially in a place like New York

751
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 2: City where the police don't care. They just don't care.

752
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: They get a name, they focus on the name. They

753
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 2: don't care that the person that is this name doesn't

754
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: match the description of the perpetrator given by the witnesses.

755
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: That just goes right out the window. People don't think

756
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: that that's true. But Gary is evident to that. And

757
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: I can tell you as an attorney that practices in

758
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: New York City every day, that that happens all the time,

759
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: and it's still has happens in twenty twenty two. And

760
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: Gary is a He's a spot on case of where

761
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: the police didn't care. And the police didn't care because

762
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: they knew his name, they knew who he was. They

763
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: focused in on him. They put him in a photo

764
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 2: ray with a photo that didn't match anything that looked

765
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: like him. It matched more the description of what the

766
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: witnesses said the perpetrator looked like. And what I mean

767
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 2: by that is obviously a photo array. All you really

768
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: have is the head. The person had short hair in

769
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: the photo ray, right, so that at least matched more

770
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: the description of the perpetrator. They went and they arrested Gary.

771
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: Then they put him in a lineup where he looks

772
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,240
Speaker 2: nothing like he looked in the photo ray and Robert

773
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: Reedy is the one that handles the identification and the

774
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: witnesses somehow identify him in the lineup. The person that's

775
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: running these procedures should not be involved with the investigation

776
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: and they should not know who the subject is. And

777
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 2: Robert Reedy has done this before. He's gotten called out,

778
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: cases have been thrown out because he suggested and tainted

779
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: identification procedures. And then who does Robert Reed? He hand

780
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: the case off to Kyle Reeves, who's framed numerous men,

781
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: scumback of the highest order. And people need to understand

782
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: what is the DA's job. The DA's job is to

783
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: vet the police's investigation. Kyle Reeves doesn't vet an investigation.

784
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 2: He takes the investigation and he fixes it. He does

785
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: the opposite of what you're supposed to do. And even

786
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: in the face of descriptions of a perpetrator that are

787
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 2: eighty pounds less and half a foot shorter than Gary

788
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: ben Lost and having a haircut that doesn't match the

789
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: afro that Gary ben Loss says, there's nothing about the

790
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: shooter in this case that matches the description of gary

791
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: Ben Lost. Kyle Reeves still takes this to trial. He

792
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 2: puts let him In Bolton on the stand. She stands

793
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 2: up in courtiess, and you see the guy that shot

794
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: the victim, Victor Vulcan here. She says no. She says no.

795
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: Her testimony matches her initial description of the shoe, which

796
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 2: it was not gary Ben Lost. That's a non identification.

797
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 2: He puts Anthony Holder on the witness stand. Anthony Holder

798
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: gives a ridiculous testimony that is not consistent at all

799
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: with the evidence of the scene, not consistent at all

800
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: with the other witnesses at the scene. Says that a

801
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: little girl was shot at the scene. There is no

802
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 2: NYPD record of a little girl being shot. And let

803
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: me tell you, if a little if a child was

804
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 2: shot at the scene, Gary beIN Loss to be doing

805
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: a lot more than twenty five to life, Okay, he

806
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: would be, and there would be absolutely police reports indicating

807
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: that medical reports indicating there wasn't. Anthony Holder completely lies.

808
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: There's not one shred of his testimony that is true.

809
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 2: And then another witness comes in and says that it

810
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: wasn't gary Ben Lost. That the defense calls. But what

811
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: the defense failed to do here, which they often do,

812
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 2: is they failed to put on the nine to one

813
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: to one caller that described the shooter as five foot eight,

814
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: dark skin with short hair. The defense failed to cross

815
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: examine let him in Bolton, even though she said that

816
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: Gary ben Loss wasn't the person that she saw fining

817
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: the weapon that day. The jury never heard the description

818
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 2: of let him in Bolten that the shooter matched the

819
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: description and body type of the victim, who was five

820
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 2: ft ten, one hundred and sixty eight pounds. That could

821
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 2: have definitively proved to the jury. It would have overridden

822
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: the terrible testimony of Anthony Holder. I don't even really

823
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 2: need to do a reinvestigation here. It's clear Gary is innocent.

824
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 2: He's been in jail for over twenty years at this point.

825
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 2: It's a travestyjustice. But it's all too often of a story,

826
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: especially in a place like New York York City. Eyewitness

827
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 2: identification is a real problem in New York City. It's

828
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 2: all too often of a story. And it is just

829
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: tragic with Gary because he should have never been arrested,

830
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: should have never been charged, and he was just railroaded.

831
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 3: The traumatic and irreparable effects of wrongful conviction just don't

832
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: affect those wrongfully convicted. It also impacts the lives of

833
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 3: their families, their communities, and the fabric of our nation.

834
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: To ed explain what I mean, I will let you

835
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 3: share this letter with you are. It was written by

836
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 3: my beloved son, Isaiah Benloss, who was seventeen years old

837
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: at the time. It reads, Dear Sir Madam, I'm writing

838
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 3: on behalf of my father, Gary Benloss. When I was

839
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 3: a baby, I never really got the chance to spend

840
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 3: time and bond with my father until I got older.

841
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 3: This situation really got to me while I was growing

842
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: up without him. He wasn't there when I first picked

843
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 3: up a basketball and when I first rode a bike. Also,

844
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: he wasn't there when I graduated elementary and middle school.

845
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 3: All I wish is for me and him to go

846
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 3: out and bond with each other. Even though he wasn't

847
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 3: there for my elementary in middle school years. I hope

848
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: he can be there when I graduated from high school

849
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. I hope whoever is reading this you

850
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: find it in your heart to give my father early parole.

851
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 3: Please thank you in advance. Ceceili Isaiah Benloss that was

852
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 3: written in April twenty second of twenty nineteen, and as

853
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 3: you see, I'm still in prison, so he never got

854
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: that wish for me to be there for his graduation.

855
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 3: In June of twenty twenty, the month following his graduation,

856
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 3: he sent me a car for my birthday and it reads,

857
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 3: happy birthday to the real O Gie. I just want

858
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 3: to say thank you for being real with me, believing

859
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 3: in me when no one did it, still being real

860
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 3: and never switching up and sticking it through even in

861
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: these hard times. I know you can't be out here

862
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 3: with me and wishing things could have been different, but

863
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: I always reminded myself and never regret what I have,

864
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 3: because then I wouldn't have you and my amazing girlfriend

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Speaker 3: and family that I loved daily. I appreciate and love

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00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 3: you that Hopefully when you get out you can make

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Speaker 3: up for lost times. I love your pops can sell

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00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 3: your son, Isaiah Benlos again. Those wishes would never be manifested.

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00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 3: But just a day after receiving this card from my son,

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00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 3: he was in a tragic car accident that lay to

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Speaker 3: claim this life. So as I leave you all here

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Speaker 3: with these final thoughts, as I studied before the state

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00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: of wrongful conviction doesn't just impact those wrongfully convicted, it

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00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 3: also affects the families.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd

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00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 4: like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn,

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00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 4: and Kevin Wardis, with research by Lyla Robinson. The music

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00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 4: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated

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00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 4: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram

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00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 4: at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and

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00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 4: on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at.

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Speaker 1: Lava for Good. On all three platforms, you can also

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00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason flamm.

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00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: Conviction is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts and

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00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one