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Speaker 1: Look man, oh I see you? Why oh and look

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Speaker 1: over there? How is that? Yes? Goodness dat Cultures calling?

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Speaker 1: How are you today? You know I've been um oh,

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Speaker 1: the hand is on the forehead, honey, I've been on

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Speaker 1: the damn California Coaster. Is that what it's called the

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Speaker 1: Incredit Coaster? The Incredit Coaster? What I just feel I

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Speaker 1: just emotionally have been very up and down, up and down,

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Speaker 1: up and down. You emotionally have been on the Incredit Coaster,

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Speaker 1: just because that coast your famously, like many coasters, goes

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Speaker 1: up and down, Hunt up and down. And then I

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Speaker 1: had I had Holly Hunter and Sarah Vowel screaming in

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Speaker 1: my ear. Wow. Truly the California Adventure appreciation happening already

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Speaker 1: right off the job. We have to stand bowing yang

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Speaker 1: a Disney girl. Yes, yes, I will never forget. I

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Speaker 1: love the Incredit Coast. Oh. We've shared many memories, many memories.

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Speaker 1: I long for the day where I can return to

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Speaker 1: the Incredit Coster. You will return, and we will. We

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Speaker 1: will also once again stroll through Radiator Spring. We will

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Speaker 1: are you now? I feel like it's very important for

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Speaker 1: me to ask you are you making arrangements that whenever

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Speaker 1: you get the vaccine, it will be at Disneyland. No,

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Speaker 1: you're shaking your head. Well, okay, so there's there's the

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Speaker 1: announcement that one of the vaccination sites is going to

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Speaker 1: be Disneyland. And I would say, in a perfect world, yes,

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Speaker 1: of course I go, and I get it sort of

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Speaker 1: in front of the Haunted mansion. You understand the photo

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Speaker 1: of um. But I'll really just take it from anywhere.

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Speaker 1: I mean not to sound uncouth, but I will take

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Speaker 1: it from anywhere anywhere. I'll get the vaccine wherever I

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Speaker 1: can get it anyway before we bring our guests in.

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Speaker 1: And I never do this, but I feel like Shudy

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Speaker 1: said that I had to do this. She said you

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Speaker 1: have to shout her out on the pod. I just

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Speaker 1: really quickly. I want to just celebrate. Let's all celebrate,

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Speaker 1: as readers, the one, the only Regina King truly what if?

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Speaker 1: What if? True? True? Icon and I were not We

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Speaker 1: throw that word around a lot all the time, but

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Speaker 1: she is. I mean just that that what a career,

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Speaker 1: what if? And what a present? Like there's only one?

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Speaker 1: That everyone was just an awe, there's only one. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's only one. I just I thought about this, it

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Speaker 1: was like two seven like Boondogs, I'm jumping around like

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Speaker 1: Boys in the Hood, Justice Ray, like all of it, Watchman,

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Speaker 1: Jerry McGuire. She's been around forever. I mean, obviously what

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Speaker 1: we know her recent wins because she's been she's been

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Speaker 1: rewarded for in a way that she should be a

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Speaker 1: needs to be. But it has been an entire career

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Speaker 1: of incredible work, like the fact that like Jamie Fox

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Speaker 1: got all that awards attention for Ray and no one

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Speaker 1: said anything about not just Regina King, but also Carry

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Speaker 1: Washington in that movie. I was like, that movie had

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Speaker 1: supporting actresses killing it and also Regina King and literally everything.

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Speaker 1: And there was a while there where she was like

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Speaker 1: ubiquitous and it's just always so good that no one

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Speaker 1: gave the appreciation, and so to see her getting so

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Speaker 1: much appreciation now rocks. And she had a great episode

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Speaker 1: of SNL and you got to do a sketchle basically

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Speaker 1: a two hand or with her. What a thrill. And

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Speaker 1: then I told a conversation she had with me on

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Speaker 1: Saturday morning. I won't reveal it, don't reveal that some

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Speaker 1: things have to be private, some things have to be

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Speaker 1: private between the stars. Some things have to be between

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Speaker 1: the stars. It's a real of culture. It's a real culture.

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Speaker 1: Number forty two. Somethings have to be between the stars,

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Speaker 1: you know. Okay, I just wanted to just give that

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Speaker 1: space for her. And now we have to bring in

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Speaker 1: our guests, who I also hold an equal esteem. Truly,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about this. You and I met equal

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Speaker 1: esteem to Regina King. Let's hear that that is something.

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Speaker 1: That is that is something. Okay, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: we're doing. That what there's nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 1: You just you just accept it. Um okay. He is

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Speaker 1: a correspondent with NPR. He hosts It's Been a Minute

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Speaker 1: with Sam Sanders. Incredible host, such a good listener, like

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Speaker 1: and you know he does he does active listening, which

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Speaker 1: I appreciate on podcast. And yes, he understands because you'll

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Speaker 1: see the guests will be saying something and making a

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Speaker 1: point and you it will be often that you will

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Speaker 1: hear Sam sort of go ye say yes, my team

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Speaker 1: is actually saved some of the owns. Yes, it's iconic

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Speaker 1: and it is active listening, and it is it is

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Speaker 1: premier podcast hosting. And I appreciate my goodness, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Perfect synthesis is like of uh, journalism meets pop culture

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Speaker 1: commentary meets breaking down news items every Friday, there's two

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Speaker 1: episodes each week, one on Tuesday, one on Friday. Fridays

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Speaker 1: or the news summaries Tuesdays are like the in depth days. Um,

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Speaker 1: such a phenomenal listen. I'm sure there's many readers who

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Speaker 1: listen to the show. But everyone, please welcome to your

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Speaker 1: ears senders. So I've never gotten the more through asked

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Speaker 1: like welcome. I'm so happy to be but you know

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Speaker 1: you deserve it. Being a sort of Regina King figure.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell y'all my Regina Keene story her? So

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Speaker 1: when she was doing like doing all the press for Watchmen,

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Speaker 1: like we got her, and I didn't think we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get her because she's a big deal, but she and

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Speaker 1: this was still the before time, so folks coming coming

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Speaker 1: into the office and yeah, she had come in and uh,

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Speaker 1: she wanted some time, and I was like, sure, whatever

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Speaker 1: you need, and she wanted time to eat her lunch.

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Speaker 1: And she had her assistant, this lovely human being, bring

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Speaker 1: her like a fish plate from the South Side, and

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Speaker 1: she just like sat there and talked with me outside

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Speaker 1: eating her fish plate, just like an around the way girl,

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Speaker 1: so chill, so down home. And then we get the interview.

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Speaker 1: She's opening up. She's amazing, but then afterwards she's just like,

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Speaker 1: let's take some pictures together. Like she's so she wants

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Speaker 1: to relate to everybody, and there's no there's no ego

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Speaker 1: around her at all, even as she gets more and

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Speaker 1: more accolades. Mm hmmmmmm. Here's the thing. I mean, Matt

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Speaker 1: and I sat next to her um on this talk

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Speaker 1: show on Facebook Sonia Deny and and we were we

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Speaker 1: were on it regularly, like in like a guest capacity,

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Speaker 1: and it was us and Rebecca O'Neill, and we were

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Speaker 1: there and Snia was hosting and Regina King was the guest.

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Speaker 1: And this was like after she had won her American

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Speaker 1: Crime Story UM and but before she won the one

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Speaker 1: for seven seconds and before if Bill Street could talk,

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Speaker 1: really the buzz had really started. So it was like

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Speaker 1: that moment like where she was getting her do but

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Speaker 1: hadn't gotten like her big do yet and the way

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Speaker 1: she has recently. And she was the coolest. She came

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Speaker 1: in she fly as ship and also shout out because okay,

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Speaker 1: her stylists are women and Michael who also styled hot Dog.

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Speaker 1: So I actually got to meet the people that put

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Speaker 1: her together and they are the best in the biz,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you. And we were we were like

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Speaker 1: jamming with her on this show. Matt, you predicted that

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Speaker 1: she was gonna win the Oscar for Beal Street. Well,

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Speaker 1: I said, I think you're gonna win the any first

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Speaker 1: seven seconds, which was an even more niche prediction. No

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Speaker 1: one was saying that. But then you also you peppered in, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Beal shriek of talk was like it was it

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Speaker 1: was clear that that was gonna be a conversation. But damn,

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Speaker 1: she's the best. And the thing is, she's been good

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Speaker 1: from the start. There's never like a bad performance of her.

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Speaker 1: I remember when she was in that Will Smith movie

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Speaker 1: that was like an intelligent spy thriller. It was called

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Speaker 1: Enemy of the State. She played his wife. She was

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Speaker 1: pitched perfect in that, and she's she's just always been

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Speaker 1: there giving you the best she's got. Yes, you know

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Speaker 1: what the thing is with her, it's like I would

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Speaker 1: liken it too. When you hear like Rihanna on the

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Speaker 1: radio or like Britney Spears on the radio, someone who's

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Speaker 1: just like got that sound. That is a signal. Sure,

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Speaker 1: Regina King, she is the signature she is. She stands

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Speaker 1: out like that's that's how you have a real star.

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Speaker 1: Her voice sort of like the look she can give

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Speaker 1: like that where it's very soulful but also like, um,

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Speaker 1: very commedically precise. And that's because she was doing a

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Speaker 1: ton of comedy and drama at the same time. Like

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Speaker 1: it's crazy to see both those things kind of come

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Speaker 1: to a head. And I feel like Watchman is such

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Speaker 1: a great use of all of her talents that it's

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Speaker 1: that thing of like star meats vehicle where it feels

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Speaker 1: right and for that to come post the Oscar wind

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Speaker 1: like beautiful, that's beautiful. I mean, you're you're seeing a

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Speaker 1: true solidification of the A list stardom that she has

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Speaker 1: so earned and people forget. She did multiple voices in

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Speaker 1: The Bone Docks, multiple voices because she was waiting for

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Speaker 1: Huwie and they were auditioning Huwie and then they couldn't

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Speaker 1: find the right person and she was just like, can

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Speaker 1: I just play that? Can I just play both? And

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Speaker 1: they were like sure, like talk about like someone who

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Speaker 1: like knows what I want and like goes for it

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Speaker 1: and like we should, I should just say that. Like

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Speaker 1: her input was like truly everyone took it to heart

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Speaker 1: this this past week, where like she had input on

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Speaker 1: everything and we were just like yes, of course, whatever

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Speaker 1: you want and always everything made it better anyway, just her.

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Speaker 1: I got to talk to all about y'all's last episode

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Speaker 1: because I loved it so much, And we have to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about a recent episode because we feel

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Speaker 1: we actually created a companion piece moment. Oh, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Tell me, well, it's your it's your Whitney episode. Girl.

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Speaker 1: I was really happy with that one. We so we'll

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Speaker 1: do that first, and then I'll talk about Justin Timberlake,

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Speaker 1: because I have thoughts on that movie and I would

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Speaker 1: like to hear all of them. Yes, yes, so we

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Speaker 1: I had read that essay by Danielle Smith. She wrote

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Speaker 1: like an oral history of Whitney Houston's national anthem at

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Speaker 1: the ninety one Super Bowl in Tampa, and it's perfect

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Speaker 1: came out five years ago and I remember loving it

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Speaker 1: back then, reading it like five times over and crying um.

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Speaker 1: And the week of the super Bowl, at our weekly

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Speaker 1: pitch meeting, our producer Janet, she was like this might

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Speaker 1: feel weird, but like an easy way for us to

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Speaker 1: cover the Super Bowl with not having like talk about sports,

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Speaker 1: might be talking about the anniversary of this rendition, And

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Speaker 1: I said, we've got just the person, and so we

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Speaker 1: get Danielle Smith. And the goal was to make her

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Speaker 1: the middle part of our Friday episode, so no more

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Speaker 1: than twelve minutes, because we cut everything down. We taped it.

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Speaker 1: As soon as we finished, we all get on the

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Speaker 1: phone were like, that's the episode. That's it, there can

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Speaker 1: be nothing else. She was amazing, she was so good

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Speaker 1: and like it reminds, it reminds you, And this is

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Speaker 1: what y'all were doing last week with Brittany. How our

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Speaker 1: culture mistreats females. We mistreat them, we don't value them.

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Speaker 1: We asked too much of them. You know. Part of

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Speaker 1: the tragedy of Whitney is that she felt too much

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Speaker 1: pressure to be perfect, to be the perfect pop star.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard, it's hard. But I was glad that

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Speaker 1: we got to make the episode and it was it

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Speaker 1: was it was. I mean, I was fighting back tears

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Speaker 1: talking to her about it, and I'm just glad that

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Speaker 1: they got out in the world. Well. Ending of that

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Speaker 1: episode where you have Danielle read from the last part

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Speaker 1: of the essay, and it's true poetry. The way that

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Speaker 1: she talks about like the lights intersecting with with the

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Speaker 1: sky so that it looks like in the Glory of God,

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Speaker 1: you're just like, oh, taking you to church. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's just like, but you know what's crazy is there

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Speaker 1: is a there are so many more tragic Whitney stories

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Speaker 1: and the biz that we just don't talk about because

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Speaker 1: how many women are chewed up and spit out by

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Speaker 1: the beast and then we just forget, you know, yeah, countless.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's it's really something to

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Speaker 1: think about how much they provided to everyone and fed everyone,

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Speaker 1: like and I think I think that there is something

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Speaker 1: because it's something that I really connected with in that

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Speaker 1: episode and something that Danielle talks about a lot is

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Speaker 1: that Whitney positioned herself to culturally be the only person

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Speaker 1: that could really deliver that to the American people in

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Speaker 1: that moment, and she had been such a huge pop

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Speaker 1: star and she had I believed the way that she

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Speaker 1: phrased it is she has she had experienced in moving

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Speaker 1: people and that the NFL recognized that and like whoever

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Speaker 1: was in charge of UM programming that recognized that, and

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Speaker 1: then she delivered it. And you guys talk really interestingly

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Speaker 1: about the way that she was dressed, how she was

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Speaker 1: very dressed down. Yeah, yeah, and it just it's so

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Speaker 1: crazy because it's it's literally like these women, these performers,

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Speaker 1: can't do enough to to to get us to just

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Speaker 1: treat them well, because this is someone who just met

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Speaker 1: us right on the level we needed and gave us

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Speaker 1: so much and truly roused the country. And I mean

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Speaker 1: rousing in the truest form of that word. I mean

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Speaker 1: she's sang the national anthem like it needed to be sung,

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Speaker 1: not how a quote unquote should be sung, how it

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Speaker 1: needed to be sung. And from that moment she only

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Speaker 1: gave more when because the body Guard album wasn't even

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Speaker 1: a thought in anyone's head at that point, and then

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Speaker 1: she would really reach even an apex that was further

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Speaker 1: up from that moment, and still we treated her like

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Speaker 1: she was not human by the time, by the time

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Speaker 1: the nineties were coming to a close, she was a

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Speaker 1: full on punchline, a full on joke, and her humanity

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Speaker 1: had been stripped of her the public consciousness and it's

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Speaker 1: so similar to Brittany. I remember watching the reality show

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Speaker 1: being Bobby Brown laughing at it, and now I'm ashamed

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Speaker 1: that I enjoyed that, you know, and it's just like

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Speaker 1: we do this again and again and again, and I

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Speaker 1: was so I was so happy that you all talked

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Speaker 1: about it in your show last week. And I'm also happy,

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Speaker 1: Matt that you shouted out the Brittany album Glory, because

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Speaker 1: I've been playing it and you're right, it's good. Glory

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Speaker 1: doesn't what's the one of where she's like, do you

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Speaker 1: want to come over? I like, I'm so happy we

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Speaker 1: are prolonging that do you want to come over? Conversation?

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Speaker 1: Because it's really a national conversation going forward. This is

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Speaker 1: every episode we're gonna be talking about it. How do

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Speaker 1: y'all so speaking of women being treated badly by the industry?

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Speaker 1: How do y'all feel about whatever Justin is doing now?

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Speaker 1: You know? Be nice? Well, I mean, I will say

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Speaker 1: I I don't think the apology is good enough. I

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Speaker 1: think and I think that he really should not have

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Speaker 1: grouped them together and the same apology. I really feel

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Speaker 1: two different stories to different women, two different and when

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Speaker 1: you plug it together like that, it's sort of as

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Speaker 1: a way to skip over, like the the experience of

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Speaker 1: both of those women. So I think the apology should

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Speaker 1: have been much more focused on. To Brittany, here's what

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Speaker 1: I want to say, and here's my genuine, heartfelt apology.

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Speaker 1: To Janet, here's what I want to say about what

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Speaker 1: I did. I'm taking accountability and letting everyone know this

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Speaker 1: is what I'm apologizing for, and here's my apology that's

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Speaker 1: hard felt, and then say I'm going to do the

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Speaker 1: work continuing and cut it. We did not need lines

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Speaker 1: about how the industry is fucked up. We did not

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Speaker 1: need lines about the ways in which you know, he

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Speaker 1: should be acquitted for crimes against these women. Like we

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Speaker 1: needed acknowledgement, genuine apology, and a statement of a mission

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Speaker 1: statement going forward about what he's going to do. And

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Speaker 1: it did not provide that. So for me, it was

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Speaker 1: not good enough. Yeah, And instead it was just, um,

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Speaker 1: it was him just sort of flattening all contexts by

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Speaker 1: lumping them together and then thinking that there was like, um,

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Speaker 1: a catch all the way to like treat both of

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Speaker 1: those cases. And I don't know if you guys agree,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there is no apology that like would

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Speaker 1: make it right in my eyes where I'm just like no,

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Speaker 1: just like Justin can take he can he can withstand this,

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Speaker 1: like mark on his career by like like like I

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Speaker 1: think he can withstand that, because there is no like

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Speaker 1: making it right for either Brittany or Janet. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can't give Janet back the years that she lost. We

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Speaker 1: just really can't do. And people forget how big of

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Speaker 1: a deal Janet was. We think of Madonna as like

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Speaker 1: the premier pop star of that era. Janet was right

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Speaker 1: up in it. Yeah, they were, they were, they were

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Speaker 1: the two. Yeah, I'm like, it's also justin Timberlake fun fact. Uh. One.

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Speaker 1: It got me thinking and reminding myself of how like

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Speaker 1: his vocals were never great. The Falsetto was fine, And

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Speaker 1: someone pointed out to me on Twitter because I was

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Speaker 1: tweeting about him last week. The final Falsetto runs in

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Speaker 1: Crimeer River. He doesn't sing that. Marcia Ambrosius of Flower

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Speaker 1: Tree is singing the that's her, that's not even him. Look,

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Speaker 1: that happens a lot in pop music, and it happens

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Speaker 1: with Brittany. We know all the time. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: just like it's symbolic if it's it's it's it's further

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Speaker 1: like sort of like hits home the fact that he

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Speaker 1: has built his career off of women, let's just say

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Speaker 1: women and black women, Yes, people with more ability than him,

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Speaker 1: like and and because the thing with Justin Timberlake is

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Speaker 1: they really what have you believe? And I say they

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Speaker 1: capital th h y. I was like, Hollywood would really

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Speaker 1: have us believe that he can do it all? They

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Speaker 1: were trying to make the whole entire era he was

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Speaker 1: like the new rat pack kind of thing. They were

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Speaker 1: really pushing him as like someone who could sing, dance, act,

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Speaker 1: entertain and you know, there was a moment where he

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Speaker 1: was trying to be all over sn L. There was

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Speaker 1: a moment with like the Social Network and stuff like

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Speaker 1: they wanted to make him a renaissance man. He really wasn't.

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Speaker 1: He just really wasn't. What's so funny is like when

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Speaker 1: you when you watch The Social Network now, he really

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Speaker 1: was the perfect person for that part because Sean partner

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Speaker 1: ends up being a weak bitch who's like crying in

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Speaker 1: that in that apartment when they're getting arrested, being like

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen and going crazy on it. You can

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Speaker 1: just tell that's like, so probably what it looked like

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Speaker 1: when that happened at the super Bowl. You can kind

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Speaker 1: of think in your head like he definitely was crying back.

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Speaker 1: What's gonna happen? Oh my god? Yeah, what's y'all's favorite

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Speaker 1: Janet video? Janet had so many great videos. I think

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Speaker 1: y'all said the last time favorite Brittany video is Toxic,

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Speaker 1: which I agree with. Okay, so for the first years,

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Speaker 1: but what's yours? I love Escapade, I love but from

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Speaker 1: like All for You. I also remember it was classic

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Speaker 1: like queer, this classic queer development where all boys sleepover,

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Speaker 1: we're watching MTV. All for You comes on and I go,

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Speaker 1: I turned, I turned all my friends and I go,

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Speaker 1: that was so good. I was like, isn't it wasn't

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Speaker 1: that amazing? Wasn't Janet Jackson so good at that? And

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Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, I guess that was like for me,

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Speaker 1: like a sleepover, remember where I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: you guys, look, do you see this? Yes, well sure,

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Speaker 1: we were like, oh my god, look like she's in

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Speaker 1: this futuristic subway station. Um I don't know those those

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Speaker 1: are mine too. I know those are weird picks, but

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Speaker 1: um no, that's a really that's a really good one. Um,

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Speaker 1: I know my minus do it? Okay? It so low

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Speaker 1: hitties pushed all the way off she was in the world.

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Speaker 1: There was no neck, it was titties, and I was

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Speaker 1: just like, oh my god. And then at that same

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Speaker 1: time together again like that would emotionally take me back.

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Speaker 1: Remember that song is just so warm to listen to

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Speaker 1: and it just it lifts you up. And the video

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Speaker 1: was beautiful and um and then obviously like you know,

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Speaker 1: love off for you as every as everyone did. Yes,

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Speaker 1: what is yours? I so because I grew up at

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Speaker 1: that peak time when h one was still like playing

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Speaker 1: eighties videos as well, so I remember loving her in

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Speaker 1: the pleasure principle. This is what she's doing. She's wearing

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Speaker 1: all dinner with the chair at the point she dances

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Speaker 1: and flips the chair over with the Korea when you

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Speaker 1: like mind blown, So that one for the Chorea. And

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Speaker 1: then second, I think she's never looked as good as

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Speaker 1: she looked in the video for Love Will Never Do

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Speaker 1: Without You. Remember that one. It's all black and white. Yes,

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00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: it's like photography because like her brists directed it. But

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Speaker 1: she's in this lush desert with like this tank top

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Speaker 1: and like this beautiful smile and it's all black and white.

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Speaker 1: And then like one of the models dancing in the

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Speaker 1: video is I can't say his name, right Jamoe and

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Speaker 1: Hinsu the guy from Yeah, he's looking more beautiful than

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Speaker 1: he ever did. And Jim Hun Yes, yes, yes, he's

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Speaker 1: in he's in the video. She she like does this

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Speaker 1: thing where she looks at the camera and her hairs

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Speaker 1: up in this cute places. Just like this is miss

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Speaker 1: America right here. This is like the American James Janet Jackson.

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Speaker 1: She when she's when she gave you that smile, forget it.

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Speaker 1: Just everything talk about super Star. Also, um, what was

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Speaker 1: I just thinking? You said, oh when you said pleasure

385
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Speaker 1: Principle simone doing that lip sync on Drag Race A B.

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00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm behind when you when you resume, you will be

387
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 1: so gagged because in the first episode, Pleasure Principle is

388
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: one of the lip syncs, and this Queen Summone who's

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00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: like definitely gonna win the show did it and it

390
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: was so like, yeah, I'm gonna go back to it

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Speaker 1: and watch it. Also, I gotta apologize to Mr Hinsu

392
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Speaker 1: Hites how Man's last night. I think it's Giaman Hunsu

393
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Speaker 1: Giaman Huntsu because we can't screw up pronouncers like we

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Speaker 1: get letters at the network first. I'm sorry, sir, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: We were not held to the same journalistic standards. This

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Speaker 1: is decidedly not NBR. That's actually rule of culture number

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Speaker 1: one four last, culture is decidedly not delightedly. What are

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Speaker 1: one of our favorite Janet albums? Because I think because

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Speaker 1: as soon as you said pleasure principle, I went control

400
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Speaker 1: as I think the all around for me has no skips,

401
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: no ships. Yeah, I think, like you know, like Rhythm

402
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: Nation is like maybe like the best like concept album

403
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: in her and her and her sort of discography. But

404
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: I think Control is like wow, like nasty um, like

405
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: when I think of you and I'm like running out

406
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: of type. That's just that's that's a perfect album. Yeah,

407
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: there's one that I gotta go look up actually hold

408
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: one of her latter albums. Is it? Is it Demita Joe? Okay,

409
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,479
Speaker 1: because I was just gonna say, don't sleep on Demita

410
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Speaker 1: Joe because Demita Joe is has got has got some

411
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Speaker 1: stuff on it, and she is fully in her bag sexually,

412
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Speaker 1: and I mean, for me, the one I'm always going

413
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Speaker 1: to think about is Velvet Rope, just because it kind

414
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: of came at that point. It was A ninety seven,

415
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Speaker 1: so it was that point where I was discovering all

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Speaker 1: of these ladies for myself. And that video, the video

417
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Speaker 1: where her hair is like red and it's like kind

418
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Speaker 1: of African thing. Which which song was that for? Oh?

419
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Speaker 1: Got to What's Gone? Got to What's Gone? Video? Yeah? Yeah?

420
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: Got Sean Yes with the Joni Mitchell sample. Oh my gosh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh man, my favorite de Meted Joe track. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tell you because I'm pulling it up, my favorite and

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Speaker 1: I still run to it all the time all nights,

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00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 1: don't stop. It's like the fast like Dancy one. Truly

425
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: truly thank you because that song did not get it

426
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: to do it did not. It was really good at all.

427
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: It was so good and her vocal sound incredible. She's

428
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: just always so smooth and perfect and like you. The

429
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: thing with Janet is like, if you really listen to

430
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: the lyrics, it is a ride and another trap that

431
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 1: I feel like wasn't a huge hit, which I honestly

432
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: believe had the super bullshit not happened, then this song

433
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: would have been a huge hat hit. Is feedback feedback?

434
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: Yea feedback when she's like my Asian persuasion, Asian persuasion,

435
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak on behalf of the community. I think

436
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: we all loved it collectively. I was like Janet just

437
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: that Asian persuasion and feedback. I was. I was obsessed, oesed.

438
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: She performed All Night Don't Stop on SNL. I remember

439
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: watching her because the chore was so amazing she did. Yeah,

440
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: and here's the thing that like no one wants to

441
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: talk about. Michael Jackson was doing Show Your Moves, but

442
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: Janet wasn't a better dancer. Janet was a better all around.

443
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: She could do more different types of chore Michael just

444
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: did Michael choreography. That is a really interesting I'm gonna

445
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: get letters. I mean Janet, it felt like could do

446
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: all styles. Yeah, exactly, exactly, And she had different choreographers

447
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: at different phases in her career, and you saw the

448
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: style to change up. Remember j Lo in the video

449
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: for That's the Way Love Goes Yep, yep, yep, yep. Yes,

450
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: yes we love it. And you know who else was

451
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 1: an incredible dancer pop star at that time? Who is

452
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: you know, we laugh about now, but Paula Abdul, Paula

453
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: Abdul back with it. We laugh about it now because

454
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: she's just an American aisle. She's just like me, Mishnell,

455
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: Like you know, she had the reality show too, Like

456
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: I think that you know, she sat on that person

457
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: in Bora. We honor Paula, We honor Paula. But I'm

458
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: just saying that she had to ride a certain wave

459
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: in the culture where she was like, you know, similar

460
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: to everyone else. Like we laughed a little bit at

461
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: and with Paula with the American idol of it all

462
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: and some of her narrative. But what I'm saying is

463
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: she as a dancing pop star maybe the best, like

464
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: when you truly because she truly came out of dance.

465
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: And also is intrinsically linked with Janet in that way

466
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: because it wasn't Paula Janet's choreographer. She was and and

467
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: and the Jackson family discovered Paula she was a Laker girl,

468
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: and she would do with the Laker girls. Some of

469
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: Michael's siblings and janet siblings saw her and said we

470
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: want her get and they had yeah, oh yeah. Now

471
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: she's in this commercial for some kind of medication. Oh yeah,

472
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: of course she's dancing with the younger version of herself,

473
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know what, Paula, get your check

474
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: and you know the thing. She's also now the lead

475
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: judge on the Mass Dancer and I actually I saw her.

476
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: How do you do mass? It's very shocking, but but

477
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, how do you do it? You know how

478
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: you're doing You put them in suits, they dance around

479
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: a surprise. One of them is Demilvano. I mean, like

480
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: it's just a tale of oldest time. How do you

481
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen next? Like Mass? Netflix watcher? Like what

482
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: is you know? Who'd buy that? Netflix? Um? But like

483
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: she Paula was on Watch What Happens Live and you

484
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: can tell that she watches All the Housewives, which I

485
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: loved and being she to this day has such a

486
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: sense of humor because paul uh Andy did, like, um,

487
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: top five moments from Paula's reality show on Bravo that

488
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: we're like insane and it's just these five moments that

489
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: are like, I don't know, Paula crying on the phone,

490
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: Paula doing all this stupid ship and Paula herself today

491
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: is just laughing at it, like what a fun thing.

492
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: Like she's She's just like the consummate. I'm gonna show

493
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: up and get my check everywhere you go. Listen, listen,

494
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: and those checks for her? Yeah, what was the not

495
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: to dwell on? Paula? Remember the video where she was

496
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: just like dancing and singing with the street Wise cartoon? Yes,

497
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: uh yeah, a Grammy winning music video. What with the

498
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: music I Want to Grammy? Yes, that's Paula's one Grammy

499
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: she Wanted video? Oh yeah, Anna, can we just source

500
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: of this is true? But I'm almost positive that Paula

501
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: Abdul's one Grammy win is Best short Form Music Video

502
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: for Opposite to Tract. Do you know what's given me

503
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: life right now? Knowing that Paula Abdul has one more

504
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: Grammy than The Weekend? Oh will forever always have one

505
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: because it's a winning Grammys anymore. That's that's confirmed. I

506
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: was Paula Abdul Grammy winner for Short Form Music Video,

507
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: Katie Perry zero The Weekend zero. Someone posted this justin Timberlake.

508
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: Ten Grammy wins. I think Britney spears one. We live

509
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: in a society in which that happens and then which

510
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: that is possible not to bring it back to Britney

511
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: and justin um, although I'm always happy to do that,

512
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: my my, my, don't think so, honey. I've decided will

513
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: refer back to it, um, just just the conversation around it.

514
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: And it really is like, I think I've had it

515
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: some time to digest the documentary now, and I'm like

516
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm still thinking about it, like a

517
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: week out is a huge deal. Yeah, yeah, well, and

518
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: it's also making me rethink other women who just disappeared

519
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, maybe they left for their sanity,

520
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: Like I think of like Tracy Chapman. She was just

521
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: like Hugh Mongous and everywhere, and then she was like,

522
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: why y'all see you later, And it's like I get

523
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: you have, like you have to preserve yourself and like,

524
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'll I won't ever get angry again

525
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: when a celebrity decide to stop being a celebrity, because

526
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: it's really freaking hard and it's an exploitative system, and

527
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: seeing that doc reminds you of it totally totally. Did

528
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: you guys read that piece on Shelley duval that just

529
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: came out. I started. I'm like halfway through it. It

530
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: also sounds like the industry kind of drove her crazy.

531
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: Well I haven't I need to read the whole article,

532
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: but my takeaway from like a cursory like intake of

533
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: the information over the years has been that like, oh,

534
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: it was like the industry, but it was also like

535
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: maybe Kubrick like traumatized her on the set of The

536
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: Shining or something, or she just like, oh my goodness. Basically, well,

537
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it was the industry at large, but what

538
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: happened to her on The Shining was just an example

539
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: of the way that she was treated a lot, which

540
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: was just sort of men not having a lot of

541
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: care for what a woman was going to have to do.

542
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: Because if you watch The Shining, it's pretty much just

543
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: seeming the entire time, right, it's a it's a hysterical

544
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: performance of a woman that's being emotionally traumatized in the

545
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: worst way you could imagine. And um, he does extremely

546
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: long shoots and ask for a lot of takes. And

547
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: I think that the way it comes off in the

548
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: article anyway, is that she was just expected to and

549
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: sort of you know, uh, just counted on to provide

550
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,479
Speaker 1: that volume of hysteria throughout or she would sort of

551
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: face like, um, you know, his disappointment or his dismissal

552
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: or and really there was no one there to to

553
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: speak up for her. Have you seen the BTS video

554
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: the like there's footage of like that, like them on

555
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: set arguing and she's like I can't walk. She's like

556
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: I can't walk from the snow into this door. Like

557
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: she's she's telling him like I can't do what you

558
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: want me to do, and he's just I mean, he's

559
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: not yelling at her, but he's just like very like

560
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: resolutely like, well you have to do it, and she's

561
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: just like pleading with him, like no, can we can

562
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: we like try to. I mean like I'm kind of

563
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: comparaphrasing the interaction, but it's truly like that stayed with me.

564
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: I remember watching that video for the first time in

565
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: college being like, oh my god, they really mistreated her. Um.

566
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: And it's it is this thing where I think she

567
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: was completely yea torn down by the industry. And and

568
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: then it's this article talks specifically about that doctor phil

569
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: interview from like four years ago. How is he still allowed? Oh,

570
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: my god, I don't. He's just still around not to

571
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: bring this into the conversation. But do we do wast No, no, no, no,

572
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: we do. We fault Oprah at all for bringing some

573
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: of these people into the culture, you know, like your

574
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: doctor oz Is, your doctor phils Um, your your Nate

575
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: Burkas is just kidding. I don't doubt I don't falter

576
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: for bringing them in because we didn't know at that

577
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: time the nine different. But I kind of blame her

578
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: from not speaking out about them now, right, she certainly

579
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: has a platform to um if she wanted to help

580
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: change the face of what daytime television has become. This

581
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: is not her responsibility, And I almost don't even think

582
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: at the time it was her responsibility because the audience

583
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: responded a certain way. Yeah, and the respond responding you

584
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: know what I really was really was driving me nuts

585
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: before we got on here, as I was hearing about

586
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: how tomorrow are By the time this episode comes out,

587
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: this interview will be out there already. But Tamron Hall

588
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: is having Sherry Pie from Drag Race on her show

589
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: to talk about how there were those allegations and then

590
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: where they're confirmed to be true by Sherry herself. About

591
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: how Sherry was posing as a casting director and basically

592
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: getting guys to put themselves on tape and do pornographic

593
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 1: shit with this promise that they were going to be

594
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: cast in a in a show or a movie that

595
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: Sherry was producing. She used a fake name, Alison Mossy

596
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: Casting and she got these guys to do you know,

597
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: explicit stuff on camera and send it to her under

598
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: the guys of like, you'll get a role in a project.

599
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: And when this came out, Sherry Pie was was disqualified

600
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 1: from Drag Race after the season had already shot and

601
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: she was a finalist, so they had to completely edit

602
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: her out. But now it's so it's a year over

603
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: a year later that this has happened and tam Ron

604
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: Hall is having Sherry on the show, and the way

605
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: that the interview was promoted was sort of like, um,

606
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: it's frame frames. Sherry is the victim. Yeah, it's like,

607
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, after being hit with these lude accusations and

608
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: getting the boot from Drag Race, breakout star, Sherry Pie

609
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: has something to say. Finally, you won't want to miss this,

610
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: and it's like, why are we framing? Were the men

611
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: underage at all? They weren't I don't believe that they were.

612
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: It's still a bad move. Yes, it's just it's part

613
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 1: your conversation around like the extent of assault or like

614
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: if like or just coerced, coercing any order, like it's

615
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: it's it was just that was the frame around it.

616
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: But now it's like, but now, yeah, I was reading

617
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: something some of the tammerin Hall like promotional language, and

618
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: it was like kind of trying to like make it

619
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: seem that Sherry was unjustly like taken out of this competition.

620
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, and that that might be subjective. But

621
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: but if and I'm just hearing about this from 'all,

622
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: if it's true that Sherry made up a fake company

623
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: and did fake casting to get the nudes, how do

624
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: you not say that's just bad? Yeah, it's it's just

625
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's like it's it's it's beyond

626
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: cat fishing. It's like fraud. And also we should say

627
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: she also told some of the guys when they sent

628
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: her the videos, you should use steroids, you need to

629
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: be bigger, and then a couple of the guy as

630
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: actually did so there was also like a coercion into

631
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: like drug use and apparently you know, at least one

632
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: of them had lasting issues because of that. So this

633
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: was emotionally and physically traumatic, um in it, you know,

634
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: profound way. And so I in thinking about, you know,

635
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: the way that these daytime TV narratives keep happening where

636
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: you know, I just wonder if Tamron Hall on this

637
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: show have the real best interests of the survivors at heart,

638
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: if now they're coming out and saying, we don't want

639
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: this to air, We don't support this, like we don't

640
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: see why Sherry Pie needs a platform. We don't necessarily

641
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: understand who's going to benefit from it besides her, who's

642
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: clearly starting to try to re enter the narrative in

643
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: the public. And um, you know, tam Ron Hall is

644
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: a good journalist, and she's a great interviewer, and I've

645
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: seen her hold people's feet to the fire a lot.

646
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: But when you see an interview marketed and promoted this way,

647
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: it's a red flag for me, like because because what

648
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: what I think is going to happen is this is

649
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: really going to be fed to the community that hasn't

650
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: heard about this, which is like straight people who are

651
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: hungry right now to go yum, yum yum, cancel culture

652
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: narrative that I can talk about. So it's like, I

653
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: don't want this to be framed as yet another thing

654
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: of cancel culture, because she actually was an abuser and

655
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: she admitted to it. So also, I don't understand folks,

656
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: you do something like that, you end up on a

657
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: show like Drag Race and expect no one will ever

658
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: find out, right, It's all it's gonna come out at

659
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: some point, Like it's it is increasingly difficult to ever

660
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: really cover your tracks, folks, like you gotta just like

661
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: know what you can. It's like, would it have gone

662
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: better had they told drag Race right before they started

663
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: even like this is in my past. I don't know,

664
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: but they're gonna find out. It was it was ongoing

665
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: during the competition. It was something that had been happening

666
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: and was still in process while they were on the show.

667
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: They were still doing this. They had just been like

668
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: it was like a part of their deal, you know

669
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like this was a this was like

670
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: pathological behavioral thing. So so that's I guess how it

671
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: gets even darker and all the rude girls are like,

672
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: don't give her this platform there, I mean they're very

673
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: vocal about it. Jackie Cox tweeted about it. You know,

674
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the girls have tweeted about it. But

675
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: it's it's it was interesting in thinking of the daytime

676
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: TV thing because there are such sensationalist narratives that happened

677
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: every single day on those programs. Um, and you know,

678
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: it's just interesting that it kind of gets away with

679
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: it because like it's during the day, or you know,

680
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: like he's a doctor, you know what I mean, or

681
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: she's a serious journalist, you know. But it's like, wait,

682
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: hold on a second, Like, ultimately, these are feeding large corporations,

683
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: and so we do have to think about what the

684
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: hell is going on. It's like fucking American Idol having

685
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: Conway on, Like this is essentially Disney Presents American Idol

686
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: presents the Kanye Conway Redemption arc. That's really oh yeah,

687
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I always am flabberg acid by how much

688
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: the View will trend on Twitter. Speaking of like daytime TV.

689
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that many people still watch the View,

690
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: but I guess it's. Yeah, it's I've been a watcher

691
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: of the View for for many years, but I find

692
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: it hard to watch now because um, well, we are

693
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: one of our panel members, so someone who makes all

694
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: the rules for this show, um is Megan McCain. Like,

695
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: we have to check with her before we do any

696
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: bits and stuff to see if it's cool with her. Um,

697
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: And she can be a little bit difficult. She's very

698
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: sort of strict. She wants this to be a very

699
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: PG sort of conservative podcast, and so we we always

700
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: have sort of conflict with her. But no, in all seriousness,

701
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: it is hard for me to watch the view because

702
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: she's on it. I find her so um brady and

703
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: sort of petulant. Well, and it's like she must not.

704
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you having fun, Megan, or do you

705
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: like this? Is there a better space for you where

706
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: you're just not constantly at odds with the whole rest

707
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: of the folks there she I would be under question

708
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: if I were in her position. I honestly just find

709
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: I think she's just an unhappy person, no matter the context,

710
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: because I remember early days of but this was back,

711
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: this is agears ago, back when I like I loved

712
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow when she first was on the air, but

713
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: like she would have Megan on, and Megan at that

714
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: point was just like a reporter for The Daily Beast,

715
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: But she would come on and just like have that

716
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: like that, she would have that petulance and you can

717
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: tell Rachel didn't really know what to do with it,

718
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: but and yet she still kept coming on. And then

719
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: it's the thing, like I guess I can commend Megan

720
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: McCain for being able to like go into different spaces

721
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: and like get her person now and get her point

722
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: of view across like she's on what Watch What Happens

723
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: Live all the time with like sc cup and I'm

724
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: just I'm truly perplexed. I'm like, how how does this

725
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: keep happening? How do we still allow her to Like

726
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry this sounds so toxic, but it's like we

727
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: we there's we've we've progressed past the need for Megan McCain.

728
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: I really believe that we have as like a media

729
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: figure anyway, I don't want to step out out of

730
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: the lane that I have to be in working for MPR.

731
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: But for me, it's not even about ideology conversation she

732
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: is it seems like she's never having a conversation to

733
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: like learn and exchange ideas. She's having a conversation to

734
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: make it an argument she wanted to end up as

735
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: an argument and it's like no, please, no. Well, you'll

736
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: notice that a theme of almost every single time Megan

737
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: McCain is trending is that she has somehow managed to

738
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: get across how hard it is for her. It's so

739
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: hard for her to get the conservative ideas across. It's

740
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: so hard for her as a real conservative when Trump

741
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: is on the GOP. It's so hard for her. Her her,

742
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: It's always about her, and it's that is what is

743
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: frustrating to watch, because you're not watching an issue debated.

744
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: You're watching someone express that they're having a difficult time

745
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: processing something and it's like, yes, welcome to what it's

746
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: like for everyone in the world. It's a complicated right area.

747
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: I understand you're a traditional conservative and you're at odds

748
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: with what your party is, but um, this is about

749
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: the country and not you. And it's interesting because she

750
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: thinks she's always arguing for the country, but all I

751
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: are here and all she her trends about is like,

752
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, me, me me me, me, me, me me me,

753
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: which is probably a lot of the way that she

754
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: was brought up as a senator's daughter and the Princess

755
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: of Arizona Um which Adie Bryant played on us, and um,

756
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: let's let's let's really just get get all this toxicity out.

757
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: So let's get the toxics d out. But we need

758
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: to ask Sam some stage. Let's burn the stage in

759
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: the zoom. We have to ask Sam the question we

760
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: asked all of our guests, and that is Sam, what

761
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: is the culture that made you say? Culture is for me? Matt,

762
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: what does this question mean? It means so many things.

763
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: Bowing and I'm so happy to sort of get in

764
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: there and streamline for the for the audience, and for Sam.

765
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: Are the readers and and Sam. So basically, this was

766
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: the moment in pop culture that made you say, mmm, okay, yep,

767
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: got it, got got got got got got a c

768
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: yes for me, And I've agonized over the last few

769
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: days and I was like, well, and for a second,

770
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I know what it is. It's

771
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: the day when Mariah Carries Honey video premiered and it

772
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: was shown every hour on the hour on MTV. But

773
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: it's actually not that that is a number two to

774
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: just the cultural phenomenon that was v H one in

775
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: the nineties, because it was an education. If you recall,

776
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: so I was born in eighty four, that means I

777
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: was like entering my teenage years in the mid nineties

778
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: when VH one was still ascendant, and what v H

779
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: one was going back then was like a true music

780
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: history education because they had two things. They had pop

781
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: up video and they had behind the music, and you

782
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: were learning things. You were learning things, and I remember

783
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: being twelve years old having like a working knowledge of

784
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: Duran Duran, Yeah, because like H one taught me right,

785
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: and so between that, I think H one and giving

786
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: me the sense of like music history and the and

787
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: and the substance behind pop music through those two shows,

788
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: it kind of like taught me that it is okay

789
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: to be a total stand and geek for music and

790
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: for celebrity because there's steps to it and there's layers

791
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: to it. And it's like when you watch the behind

792
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: the Music for Celine Dion or behind music for Fleetwood

793
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: Mac or for ms Camra or for TLC or that

794
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: was the best one when she burned the house down,

795
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god. But it's like, here is how you

796
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: go bankrupt and after selling and get ready to do

797
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: yes yes, And like it taught me that like every

798
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: song that I heard on the radio had a story

799
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: behind it and a culture behind it, had real people's

800
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: lives affected by it, and it is worth carrying a

801
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: lot about that. I think a lot of heteronormative culture

802
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: teaches us that pop and celebrity and ship the gay

803
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: kids like is frivolous and VH one all the time,

804
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 1: I was saying, now, let's not there's layers to this ship.

805
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: Let us show you. So I think that, And like

806
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: I ended up being a music major in college, Like

807
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: I was a musician. I played the saxophones still, and

808
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't I don't know if I would

809
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: have gotten it's heavy into music if not for v

810
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: H one, If that makes sense, I really and like

811
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to overstate how weird they were. So besides

812
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: doing a lot of music history in the nineties with

813
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: those shows, they also played a really interesting mix of stuff,

814
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: Like half of it was just Top forty, but the

815
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: H one would do like a lot of adult They

816
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: played the hell out of Sean Covin. I still every

817
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: word home, yes, yes, And so like I was this

818
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: little black nerd in South Texas who was like prepared

819
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 1: to give you a soliloquy on Sean Colvin and Duran

820
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: Duran and can tell you like Shania Twain's backstory at

821
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: the age of thirteen. I love that. So I would

822
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: say the H One in its nineties era of educating

823
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: the youth was the culture that made culture for me.

824
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: This is one of my favorite answers anyone's ever given.

825
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: And it takes someone like Sam who like is able

826
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: to like connect every dot that is so great and

827
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: because where else would you have gotten that education, wouldn't

828
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: have learned well. And then I think of the kids now,

829
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: like y'all have seen y'all actually had a skit about

830
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: these two young kids who do the reaction video. Yeah,

831
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: as they play the oldies, that wouldn't have happened if

832
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: they had h One, that wouldn't have happened. Like I knew,

833
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: I knew about like I knew disco songs in my

834
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 1: because like it was like the H One was teaching

835
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: you that. And so now part of me sees gen

836
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: Z discovering these songs through TikTok for the first time.

837
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: Half he said, it's cute. We failed your babies, we

838
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: failed you. I see exactly what you're saying. And then

839
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: there was this piece that came out in New York

840
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: Magazine last week about how TikTok is as great as

841
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: it is as a platform from from new music, it

842
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: is sort of flattening it in a way. I think

843
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: the headline is like, how TikTok is flattening music, but

844
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: it's like talks about driver's license or Olivia Rodrigo as

845
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: an example, which I was like. I was like, I

846
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: think it's just a great song, but then the way

847
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: that like it outlines, like how deliberately proliferated it was,

848
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: makes me go, oh, okay, so this is the new

849
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: apparatus for it, and there's no like genuine authentic organic

850
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: discovery of like new stuff old stuff that like is

851
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: in the same like container that is like a H

852
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: one like a VH one shower or something like that.

853
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember that there's always been

854
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: apparatus apparati through which the the music business would manipulate

855
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: how songs performed. I mean, like you know, like with radio,

856
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: like they were able to inundate radio, and they're doing

857
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: it now with TikTok. It is like an interesting advancement

858
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: of of of the way the music business can can

859
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: decide for itself what is popular. Um. But I do

860
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: think it's it's interesting that we are maybe like that

861
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: last generation because I too am in nineties VH one

862
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: kid because I wasn't allowed to watch MTV, which I

863
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: also think is a thing. Um. But genuine education on

864
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: music history through through that type of engagement. And it's

865
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: also true of television to like because these gen z

866
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: kids also don't know the classic sitcoms and it's so

867
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: interesting to see them be revisited by something like Wanda

868
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: Vision because I think that a lot of people are

869
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: going to watch these I Love Lucy throwbacks and the

870
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 1: Bewitched throwbacks and be like that's crazy and not even

871
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: understand and or have a vocabulary for that type of

872
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: culture in the way that we do. And I do

873
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: think that that those shows behind the music and pop

874
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: up video we're doing a service. They were not just entertainment,

875
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: but they were education. I remember more from those things

876
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: in terms of like things I learned as a child

877
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: than I did from school, for sure. Yeah. My favorite

878
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: pop up video was probably Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson

879
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: screen video because they end up revealing in the little

880
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: pop ups that at that point it was the most

881
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: expensive music video ever made. They spent seven million dollars

882
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,959
Speaker 1: just making enough insane insane. That's another video, we Gotta,

883
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 1: we Gotta, we Gotta the White Leather. So, like y'all

884
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: mentioned how on writing itself when the songs are changing

885
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: to fit TikTok, what's crazier? And I had this so

886
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: I had the two hosts of this music podcast called

887
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: Switched on Pop. I had them on my show I

888
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 1: Love back Check. It's a great show. They've dug deep

889
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: into how the Spotify algorithm has resulted in shorter pop songs. Yes,

890
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: it's crazy because like what determines if you get on

891
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: the playlist, Uh, part of it is whether or not

892
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 1: people listen to the whole song, And if they play

893
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: your whole song all the way through, it bumps you up.

894
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: So now songwriters make the song shorter so that you'll

895
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: play it all the way through. The average pop hit

896
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: used to be three and a half minutes. I think

897
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: Old Town Road was just over two minutes. You'll see

898
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: like all our like I'm like Ariana's records, like it's

899
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: like two forty seven, Like they're no longer than three minutes.

900
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: And also I was wondering why it seems like there's

901
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: so many long albums like a lot of tracks, because

902
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: that helps album streams exactly like Drake is mastered that game.

903
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: Drake will have thirty seven songs on his albums because

904
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 1: you know, you'll just hit play and it's like more

905
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: spins for the It's crazy, there's little hacks. Yeah, it's

906
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: interesting that like the incentives are new now to like

907
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: formally change and altar like what an album is, because

908
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: now it's just I mean like we've known for years

909
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: now that like the album has been reduced to like

910
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: the square and like it's not like you know by

911
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: sleeve at the record story. You don't buy like even

912
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: like a CD case anymore. And it's like there's nothing

913
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: tactile about it. And so now it's just like I

914
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 1: do moren the fact that albums are just completely abstract

915
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Now, well there's there's there's

916
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: less acknowledgement of the of the village it took to

917
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: make a thing because there's no liner notes. I remember

918
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: reading the liner notes of albums as a kid. D'angelo's

919
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: Voodoo album had the most intense liner notes ever, so

920
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: besides the credits on the album, he had written this

921
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: essay about how his music was informed by uh Prints

922
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: and other musicians, and it was like is oh too,

923
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: folks that he loved it was it was this wonderful

924
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: companion to the album that just doesn't happen anymore, and

925
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: I miss that. But I will say this, this like

926
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 1: idea that like the plant, like the platforms have always

927
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: changed the art. So you know, we thought that the

928
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: three and a half minute single was just the way

929
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: it happened. They were that long because when records were ascendant,

930
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: that was the right length to fit on that size

931
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: of a record in that and so it's this is

932
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: always the way it works. And like, I don't know

933
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: what happens next, but I do think we're gonna go

934
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: a little too far towards too short, too quick hits,

935
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: Like I want some double album flex energy with like

936
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: nine minute long songs again. And I think it's coming.

937
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: I think it's coming, I hope. So yeah, well, when

938
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: something becomes the I mean, there will be someone that

939
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,479
Speaker 1: just breaks through that and and it's got it's gonna

940
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: be someone that is like one of our few people

941
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: right now who's like at artists level, Like watch Rihanna

942
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: come back into just three long songs, you know what

943
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: I mean? Like I feel like eat it and deal

944
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: with it, and like, man, I will right understand. I'm

945
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: not playing by your rules. Here's three sixteen minute long

946
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: songs and you're not going to hear from me for

947
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: another seven years. Yeah, And and then she disappears in

948
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: a cloud of weed smoke. She's like, you don't give

949
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: a funk about this and never did well, Like people

950
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: forget the last time that everyone listened to an album

951
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: all the way through at the same time when it

952
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: came out right, And it's funny that, like you think,

953
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: like it's sort of happened with Taylor Swift too. But

954
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: the thing is, like with Beyonce, it's like it really

955
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: does feel like a piece, you know, And because even

956
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: even with folklore and evermore like those those are tracked

957
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: by track, Beyonce felt like and she did announce it

958
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: as such, but there was a visual pieces. There was

959
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: a was an arc to both. And I think that's

960
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: that's how you know, like there are still there are

961
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: still those things happening. There are few and far between,

962
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: but those artists aren't like she doesn't feel the need

963
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: to play the two minute second game, Like would never

964
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: be thirsty enough to like lead the streams, you know

965
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like it does end up feeling a

966
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: little transparent and thirsty when I see a seventeen track

967
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: album with with two minute songs, and especially when there's

968
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: five songs that obviously can go and I mean that's

969
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: been a lot. Yeah, I have a I have a thought.

970
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see what you guys think. So Taylor

971
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: Swift is re recording on her old music just to like,

972
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: um because just uh the Scooter bron stuff right, shoot

973
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: a brown stuff. She you know she is it like that?

974
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: She's like her Master's result. She's she's just re recording

975
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: them too. She owns the songs, she will not own

976
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:02,919
Speaker 1: the masters own masters. Yes, So I'm thinking, is this

977
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: is this the equivalent to like reboot like treatment in

978
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: terms of music where I don't mind it, but I'm like,

979
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: and Taylor needs there's a reason why Taylor is doing this.

980
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, like, are we going to maybe see

981
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: this from other artists where they are dipping back into

982
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: their old music and like, which is also not itself

983
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: a new concept, but It's like I feel like this

984
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: might happen now with certain artists where they go, oh,

985
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: let me just like redo some of my older stuff.

986
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: Does that sound fully crazy? I feel like it might not.

987
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 1: I don't think it sounds love it and I would

988
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: love to hear what artists would sound like doing their

989
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: old stuff. Now, imagine Beyonce a re recording, be Day

990
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 1: or four. Yeah, let them all do it. I would

991
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: all do it. Let them all feels kind of it

992
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: feels kind of like Joni Mitchell, but not quite where

993
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, there's these are like reimaginings of songs

994
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: like decades later, like that is so emotional and so

995
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: like I want to listen to that. Um, I don't know.

996
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: I just I can't. That's something about that really fascinates

997
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: me because I really do think. And now I am

998
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: excited for the Fearless Taylor's version release, and I'm excited

999
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: for these old Taylor Swift songs that I that I

1000
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,280
Speaker 1: remember loving and I still love. But now I'm like, oh,

1001
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: her voice is mature, they feel different, They're gonna feel different,

1002
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: and I already already love the love Story sort of

1003
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: re record the Taylor's version like, I find it to

1004
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: be really interesting thing that might be the new mental

1005
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,479
Speaker 1: model for some artists. I don't know. I have two

1006
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: favorite Taylor Swift songs and all bigger Taylor fans in me,

1007
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: but lover is perfect the other one, the other one.

1008
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: I used to sit on the stup of my duplex

1009
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: chain smoking cigarettes after Corey dumped me. This was the

1010
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: song he loves He's such a loser, Can I know? Well,

1011
00:55:55,640 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: I'm not. Corey is a fucking loser. Don't need to

1012
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: know anything else. In the midst of that breakup, I

1013
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 1: would sit on the front stood chain smoking to finally, clean, clean, clean, clean, fabulous.

1014
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: Your work you get you feel your emotional tailor. I feel, um, yeah,

1015
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: you make me cry. I'm drama drama. I loved your

1016
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,919
Speaker 1: interview with Phoebe Bridgers so much because you also said

1017
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: that you cried to her so my routine. Because I

1018
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: got into Phoebe when I was in Texas this past

1019
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: year because at a certain point during lockdown in like

1020
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: l A, I was in downtown l A and I

1021
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: was like, why am I let me go take my

1022
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: money into San Antonio, Texas where it goes a lot

1023
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: farther and it's a lot quieter, and one of my

1024
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: favorite things to do would be to take my dog's

1025
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: ora out to McAlister Park. It's one of those parks

1026
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 1: it's so big, like it's just kind of like hiking

1027
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: basically leash and I would be playing Phoebe Bridges watching

1028
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: my dog chase deer that she would never catch, gently

1029
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: weeping and it was like, Phoebe, thank you. And of

1030
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: course the person thing I told on the interview was

1031
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: like like yeah, and she took it so well because

1032
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: she goes, thank you so much and she goes I

1033
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: love that. This is like my thing now is that

1034
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: people will come up to be being like your music

1035
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: has destroyed me, and I have to be like thank you.

1036
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: You know that has to be so gratifying though, to

1037
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: know that you are at this point millions of people's

1038
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: like emotional release, like that really has been like a

1039
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: function that she has provided in so many people's lives, Like, yeah,

1040
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: it's for me. I guess for me. That happened with

1041
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: Maggie Rogers a few years ago. I feel like people

1042
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: are feeling it now in this Phoebe Bridges is sort

1043
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: of hitting a similar nerve and like, I love that

1044
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: like well one. We got a lot of feedback from

1045
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: listeners after that interview. Her fan base is all over.

1046
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: A lot of middle aged dads wrote me and we're like, bro,

1047
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: I felt this. I feel like she has she has

1048
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: stands all across the spectrum. It's really beautiful. I know,

1049
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: I know. And she was about to start to ring

1050
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: in Japan. I feel like she has like international like appeal,

1051
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: like she I mean, she's she's phenomenal. She's here to say.

1052
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: One of my favorite songs of all time is probably Funeral.

1053
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: It's just album. Yeah, it's such it's one. It's just

1054
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: a beautiful poem. But then there's this majestic string arrangements

1055
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: going on and the second verse that just shindows this

1056
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: wonderful like cut. Anyways, stop because I can keep going

1057
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: on her. I know, I feel like I feel like

1058
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: Megan is winning Best New Artists. But I would not

1059
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: be surprised if Phoebe Bridges has votes, Like she's gonna

1060
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: get tons of votes. And I also think that, you know,

1061
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: it feels like she's peeking out a good time for that.

1062
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: I just know that you know that Best New Artist award,

1063
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: like you that's an important thing. Because really like it

1064
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: sets a tone like when do a one best, It's

1065
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: when future nostalgia was what it was, you know, put

1066
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: pressure on her, like I think she said an interviews

1067
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: that the Grammy put pressure on her to deliver something

1068
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: really elevated. Um, not that Megan needs it, not that

1069
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: Phoebe needs it, but I mean either of them would

1070
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: be like worthy recipients. Yeah. And what I love is that,

1071
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: like it seems like all of them probably like like

1072
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: each other, and then it seems like that I'll be

1073
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: really cool, you know, with each other. Then there's the

1074
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: spoiler in that category, which is Doja no Doja, Doja

1075
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: deserves it. I wanted to hate on Doja, but she's talented.

1076
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: She she can, she can dance. I've seen a few

1077
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: of her like a Warshow performances. She's got the moves step,

1078
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: She's always on Billboard Music Awards, Billboard Music Awards, True

1079
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: Star Quality. Um. I was gonna say that I wish

1080
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: that like these musicians, these best new artists musicians like

1081
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: campaign together the way that like Oscars like the campaigns,

1082
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: Like yeah, amazing, Because Phoebe Bridges likes Megan this down

1083
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: and she's like yeah, got it. Yeah, yeah, I mean

1084
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,479
Speaker 1: who doesn't like imagine? She was like, well, there's people

1085
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: in the category I don't care for, but no, I

1086
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 1: just feel like in terms of, like, you know, she

1087
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: got the nomination, and in terms of how much she's

1088
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: impacted the culture, like it would be nice to see

1089
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: that nobody recognized Megan the Stallion as being like the

1090
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: best new artists of the year in terms of like

1091
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: impact and also like justartistic relevance all that stuff. But

1092
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: Phoebe's incredible and I do love Dojo like you could.

1093
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: You can see some of those those are words forms,

1094
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: like when she did the Buildoard Music Awards and she

1095
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: did the Roxy heart um like like that illusion. I

1096
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 1: was like, she's saying, give this is for the gays only,

1097
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: and I appreciated it. Also, her verse on the Ariana remix,

1098
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: it's better than it's better than Megan's. I mean, they're both,

1099
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: but I'm telling you that because because like Doja is

1100
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: really melodic, She's always able sing song and she's kind

1101
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: of like that. I like it. Yeah, I think I

1102
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: think I might agree. I do love Megan's verse on it,

1103
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: but Doja is I always love Megan, but Doja she

1104
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: is what is the what is when do you say?

1105
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,439
Speaker 1: The moment? Come on a legend. She's got a point

1106
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: to legend. She's an iconic moment, the moment. Now I

1107
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: loother that there's two now now come on out come now,

1108
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: come on now perfect. You know it's it's hard to

1109
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: give um dojo the w there because I also in

1110
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: what I'm always like feeling like, I feel like Cardi

1111
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: is the one that kills this like it is Cardi's song,

1112
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: but she sets the tone in that and I don't

1113
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: know Cardi slays wop. But then Megan comes in with

1114
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: you and when she says to me like thinifying your honor,

1115
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm a freak bitch. I liked the new Cardi song

1116
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: too Up great. The video is phenomenal with Megan. It's

1117
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: that she's always been like coolly confident. That's been her stuff.

1118
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: She changed her hand all the recently, not her handle,

1119
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: but her name on Twitter. Yesterday was the birthday Tina Stone.

1120
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: I got excited. I was like, you're gonna do something

1121
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: with that character again. That was like on her one

1122
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: of her first albums or mixtapes, Tina snow like this

1123
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: play just like play me like imagery and that's how

1124
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: heightens the moment. Yeah, that has some of my favorite Megans.

1125
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: That was like that was like old school quote unquote Megan.

1126
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can call it that, but

1127
01:02:58,240 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: like that was when I first discovered her and she

1128
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: had like big old freak and the old freak is

1129
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 1: still so good. That was the one Bowen first showed me.

1130
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: He was like you have to. He's like, we're gonna

1131
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: listen to Megan, and the first song we need is

1132
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: big old phrase. And he would always be flitting around

1133
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: Bowen yang As saying big old freak and then he

1134
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: would giggle, Yeah he would, and he would be giggling

1135
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: about and sort of founcing about and saying the gold freak.

1136
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: I could tell he was feeling himself that Megan had

1137
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: an impacted That beat is an Albi Shure sample, and

1138
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: I'll be sure is a biological father of one of

1139
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: did He's kids. Oh did He's light Skin son is

1140
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: Albi Shore's son. Yeah, my god, I mean checking checking

1141
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 1: behind him. Honestly, you you should reboot it. Is it

1142
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: still going behind the music still a thing. I don't know.

1143
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: I don't believe it is. I think it should exist though,

1144
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: and I think that there's a way if I would

1145
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 1: be h one, I'd be like, how are we making

1146
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: behind the music and digestible enough packages for TikTok? Oh?

1147
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: That's that's really good. I mean the closest thing that

1148
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: there is now in TV form is like a song

1149
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: Explode or Netflix, which is also phenomenal. There is something

1150
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 1: about the way that behind in music really stepped out

1151
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: the narrative, like like the fluid mac thing, Like that's

1152
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: probably the three the way that I learned about Oh yeah,

1153
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: the rumors of it all. You know, It's like I

1154
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't have known about all that stuff if it weren't

1155
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: for that behind and like it should come from like

1156
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: a not a central place, but from like a big

1157
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: place where there's like journalistic authority behind it. Does that

1158
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: make sense likely? Would you know? If my management is

1159
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: listening music, do this? Do it? Do it? Even if

1160
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: it was just like an extension of like the podcast

1161
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: or something. I just feel like it's something that needs

1162
01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: to happen because I do think that like people would

1163
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: would really want it, Like I especially like for that

1164
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: generation that felt just out of reach for us culturally,

1165
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: and for example, someone like me learning about Pat Benatar.

1166
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,959
Speaker 1: I love that, Like, who's the who is the little

1167
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: gay boy right now? Who would they want to hear about?

1168
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: Is it like Jewel? I don't know, Like who who

1169
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: was popular for us that they want to hear? Like,

1170
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: you know what, I feel like there's an appetite for that,

1171
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: there is. I felt like the gen Z kids need

1172
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: like a behind the music on like Brandy. People forget

1173
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: there was a moment when Brandy was the she had Moitia,

1174
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: she was doing the albums, oh forget Aday and people

1175
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: also forget just how influential she is as a female

1176
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: R and B vocalist. You know, she's referred to in

1177
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: that community as the vocal Bible, And like, I think

1178
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: that obviously, because she's a black woman, she has dealt

1179
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: a shitty hand by the culture in terms of nostalgia

1180
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: for her, and it's kind of sort of nice to

1181
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: see her getting this moment right now with um the

1182
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: Brandy Cinder, which is always I always called the Brandy Cinderella.

1183
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: It's called Cinderella, but for me, it's is now on

1184
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 1: Disney Plus and she just released B seven and she's

1185
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: like got the Moitia reboots. So it feels like a

1186
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: nice moment for Brandy respect right now. And I would

1187
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 1: love like a companion piece that it maybe this is

1188
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: an idea for you, Sam, but a companion piece that

1189
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: is like, let's actually remember like the impact of you know,

1190
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: the Brandy. She was such vocal control. They're these YouTube

1191
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 1: videos of her just joking around, singing like in the car,

1192
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: playing around, and that's pitch perfect. You know. Like my

1193
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: favorite Brandy album is probably Full Moon, but there's a

1194
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: few tracks on there where you're just like, you weren't

1195
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: hearing a voice that smooth that she was the one.

1196
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: She was the one. She also made it seem easy

1197
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 1: in a way, which is just like it's it's because

1198
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: it was so natural to her. And she didn't have

1199
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: like this huge tone, like like like a big like

1200
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: sort of like belty tone. She was very much like

1201
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 1: you know, she had like that silky sort of pillowy sound.

1202
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: And I think that because she didn't have this big,

1203
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: booming Whitney Houston voice, people don't put her on that level.

1204
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: But in terms of vocal dexterity, in terms of like

1205
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: having an ear, in terms of um you know, the

1206
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: way that her vocals were laid in together, like if

1207
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: you listen to how Have You Ever? Like that is

1208
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: a genius, geniously produced song. Um and also in terms

1209
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: of range, like when she gets into the bridge on

1210
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 1: that song where it's like she goes, it's like it's

1211
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: so high, and she's also in her basement on the verses,

1212
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 1: so she she is. I mean that song is hard. Yeah,

1213
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 1: she made it sound emasy. I love her Actually, Randy Cinderella, yet,

1214
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 1: have you reindulged? I haven't reindulged that. I need to

1215
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: remember when it came out back then, how big of

1216
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: a headline it was because there were people who were

1217
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: like America by a multiracial cast on this classic and

1218
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: then million viewers, right, seventeen million viewers watched it that

1219
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: first weekend it was out. If I recall correctly, Yeah,

1220
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: it must have been that huge. It's like, if you

1221
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: have a hard time believing that a cast could be

1222
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: multi ethnic, you're gonna have a really hard time believe.

1223
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: And they were gonna take a glass slipper around the

1224
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: whole town try to get one should have been and

1225
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: then based on that he marries her. You're gonna have

1226
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 1: a real hard time then, girl, if logic is your

1227
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: you're fucking hill. You're gonna die on with Cinderella, Mama, girl,

1228
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,600
Speaker 1: Like you accept the pumpkin becoming a carriage? Yeah, you

1229
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 1: got no questions about not the fairy godmother tweedledeedles doodling

1230
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 1: in with nothing else but a shimmer and a pop like,

1231
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 1: I mean, girl, yeah forget it. They buy it. Yeah.

1232
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: Whitney and Whitney's Wife soundtrack, which I mean, I'm I

1233
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 1: would imagine that you've you've frequented. It's like a YouTube

1234
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 1: video of Brandy and Whitney like prepared, rehearsing together, do

1235
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: it impossible? Yeah, and where Brandy is like giving So

1236
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: Brandy recently talked about there's a part where she goes

1237
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: and she's like giving Whitney a note and she's giving

1238
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: her the low version of the note because she didn't

1239
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: want to belt the octave up in rehearsal. But she

1240
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:36,600
Speaker 1: was giving Whitney that note and Whitney looks at her

1241
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: in the eyes and goes, why are you down there? Yes,

1242
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: and recently cleared it up, she was like, no, I

1243
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: was giving her the note the octave down because I

1244
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 1: can't just built this thing out and rehearsal that She's

1245
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: gonna be doing. So that's where the confusion was on

1246
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: that one. Why are you down there? Is up there

1247
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: with that bell doing where my background saying it's there,

1248
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:12,719
Speaker 1: just like the interrogative tone. And also people forget Whitney

1249
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: was a mentor to all of the young ladies in

1250
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 1: the industry as they were coming up. She mentored Alicia

1251
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 1: Keys a lot behind the scenes. They were close, they

1252
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 1: were friends. She was she was she really, I don't

1253
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: know she was. It's such a loss. It's such a loss.

1254
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 1: It's such a loss. And oh god, this is like

1255
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 1: this we're coming up on a nine year I think

1256
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 1: he passed the nine year mark. Oh it really, it's

1257
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 1: crazy that she's been gone that long. I know, I know,

1258
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: it hit me hardly. I took a day off of

1259
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 1: work after she died. I remember that and I was like,

1260
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm no because it was just like Grammy's and it

1261
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 1: was it felt so sudden, it was a Grammy week.

1262
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: And then when every time you found out more details,

1263
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: it just got more and more sad. Yeah, I got

1264
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: more and more sad. I cannot believe that Davis still

1265
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: had that party that night. I cannot believe it. That

1266
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:08,560
Speaker 1: guy is the worst. And I can't believe that she

1267
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: died in that hotel and that he didn't cancel that

1268
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 1: event like or that if he was going to have it,

1269
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't entirely about her legacy, especially her history at

1270
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:25,560
Speaker 1: that Clive Davis pre Grammy party in particular, like that

1271
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: was one of her biggest industry coming out moments. Like

1272
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: I just I he obviously you know he took. He

1273
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: was on one of the many that took and took

1274
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: and took from her. Have no respect for him. There

1275
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:40,560
Speaker 1: are so many pieces about how truly just monstrous he

1276
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: was as it specifically as it pertained to Whitney. Um,

1277
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 1: it's dark. It's dark. You guys. Remember when he put

1278
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 1: out was it a year or two or year ago

1279
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 1: he put out his autobiographer or like his memoir and

1280
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, it turns out I'm like actually

1281
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: by yeah, and I think he was waiting for this

1282
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: outpourn of support. But everyone's like, okay, whatever, says yeah,

1283
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 1: I don't like you that much. Yeah, he's the devil.

1284
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: Well it's important that he is the devil. Um, he

1285
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 1: actually is the devil, and so the devil is the

1286
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 1: devil being by actually doesn't surprise me at all. I

1287
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:17,440
Speaker 1: knew the devil was by the devil is a chaotic bisexual.

1288
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: The devil is chaotic bisexual. I do want to ask

1289
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:37,719
Speaker 1: Sam before we move on. I don't think so, honey.

1290
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like it's been a minute.

1291
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 1: Is truly like the perfect synthesis of like pop culture again,

1292
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: like I said, and like news of the day, news

1293
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: of the week, What are what are like? How do

1294
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: how do you and the team like figure out what

1295
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 1: to cover? Because I really think that there is the

1296
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: specificity and this like art to like the point of

1297
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: view of the show, and like it makes me always

1298
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: want to listen and consistently like thank you, I appreciate that.

1299
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a few things, like in general,

1300
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 1: if there's a story that it feels like everyone is

1301
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 1: covering to death, our goal is to either find a

1302
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: different angle on it or just skip it. So we

1303
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: skipped this second impeachment. We were just like what we add?

1304
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 1: What do I add? You know, like I can't do

1305
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,160
Speaker 1: anything with that that won't that would feel new, So

1306
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 1: we just went elsewhere. And then I think the other

1307
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,679
Speaker 1: thing besides that is like when we started the show

1308
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 1: we probably covered more topics, and we probably wanted our

1309
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:39,439
Speaker 1: our main desire was to help people laugh about the

1310
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: week of news. But as the news cycles have gotten

1311
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: more depressing and the world has just started to feel worse,

1312
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 1: we've kind of leaned into also allowing the show to

1313
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 1: be a space for people to just like shed some

1314
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 1: tears and like have a little emotional catharsis. Um. So

1315
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 1: it's still a fun show, but we're laughing less than

1316
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: we were two years ago. And of also, uh, we

1317
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: talk about less every week now. In the earliest iterations

1318
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 1: of the show on the Friday shows, we might cover

1319
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: three or four different stories, and now we really just

1320
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 1: lean into less to give it more time and let

1321
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: it breathe a little bit more. Um. But my philosophy

1322
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: about like a mix of news and popular culture. My

1323
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,639
Speaker 1: philosophy is that you can never understand the news fully

1324
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:28,599
Speaker 1: without understanding pop culture. And I think that this dividing

1325
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: line that a lot of journalists have, where you know,

1326
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 1: this was the hard news and this is a soft news,

1327
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: I think that is structurally and systemically oppressive and racist

1328
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: and phobic, sexist, because all the stuff that the old

1329
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,840
Speaker 1: school journalist voice that God reporters want to say, is

1330
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,719
Speaker 1: the soft stuff but they don't care about always happens

1331
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,639
Speaker 1: to be stuff about women and black and brown folks

1332
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: and gay people. And so my desires to say that

1333
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 1: everyone who listens that that stuff is just as important,

1334
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:07,719
Speaker 1: and to also say that you cannot understand these quote

1335
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 1: unquote hard stories about just the facts until you understand

1336
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 1: the cultural significance and emotional stuff that's in these softer stories.

1337
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 1: For instance, like people want to there were years where

1338
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: journalists at all kinds of news outlets, including my own,

1339
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,640
Speaker 1: we're saying that Trump voters were motivated by economic anxiety

1340
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 1: and because in their lizard brain logical journalists minds, they

1341
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 1: couldn't see what it was really about, and they wanted

1342
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 1: to put logic into it. But if they had done

1343
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: a better job, if we have done a better job

1344
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 1: of understanding the significance of culture and of cultural stories

1345
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: and the way that people feel and the direct reaction

1346
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: of some parts of white America to see a more

1347
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,439
Speaker 1: diverse America on screen, we might have seen earlier that

1348
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 1: it was never economic anxiety. It was a lot of

1349
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: in some instances racism. And so I think in order

1350
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: to really under stories are never just facts. Stories are

1351
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 1: never just numbers. Stories are usually always about feelings, and

1352
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 1: the feelings are always more important than the facts. I'm

1353
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 1: not saying the facts don't need to be right. I

1354
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 1: want to get the facts right, but I'm not going

1355
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 1: to understand the story until I understand the emotions behind

1356
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: it as well. And journalists who cover heart and soft

1357
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:33,719
Speaker 1: news are better at speaking to and feeling those feelings.

1358
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 1: I think. So I'm kind of ramble it now. This

1359
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: is this is this is really fascinating because I actually

1360
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: i'm and when you're while you're talking, I'm thinking about

1361
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: like the way that I've learned history throughout my life,

1362
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: and I think that like when you especially when you

1363
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: when you look at like the American public school system,

1364
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,600
Speaker 1: when you learn history, it's a lot of like this

1365
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,560
Speaker 1: was the president, this is the date the spill was passed, this, this, this, this, this,

1366
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 1: and it's sort of just bleeds all in together and

1367
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: it feels irrelevant, Whereas I think that I would have

1368
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 1: absorbed more of those things had I known, like what

1369
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: do people of the time, like, what did they do?

1370
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 1: What were the interests? What was popular at the time,

1371
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:19,599
Speaker 1: Because facts without context, you know, you can't get much

1372
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 1: from it, and so pop culture is the context for

1373
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 1: everything that happens. And we especially see that over the

1374
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 1: past five years, you know what I mean, when the

1375
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 1: two truly collided and we may never go back. And

1376
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 1: so I think that in that way, like this, this

1377
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 1: ideology that you have is exactly the way we need

1378
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 1: to be moving because it helps give a more well

1379
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 1: rounded understanding of life. And it would be more exciting

1380
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 1: to learn the world and to learn history that way.

1381
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: Imagine if our teachers had taught us the Civil Rights

1382
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 1: movement with Motown records as the sound track, because it

1383
01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 1: was and so much of the ballism of Motown and

1384
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,759
Speaker 1: the way that they presented their black artists as polished

1385
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 1: and ready for white consumption was this was paralleled in

1386
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 1: the way that Dr Kane was marking through the streets

1387
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,640
Speaker 1: in a suit and tie. These things are connected, right,

1388
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:15,560
Speaker 1: and so that I want to have those kind of

1389
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 1: conversations and I want It's like, it's like, I hate

1390
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 1: it when people are like, well, this story is just

1391
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: about the facts. It's never just about the fact. It's

1392
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: about all this ship wrapped up together. Understand it holistically,

1393
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 1: you know, And yeah, and it's almost like when Trump

1394
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 1: became president, all the serious people were like humiliated that

1395
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: this could be true. And it's it's it's like they

1396
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 1: were mortified this could be true. How dare they, um,

1397
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 1: you know, have to share the screen or time or

1398
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: give attention to this creature of reality television. And it's like, girl,

1399
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 1: it's knocking on your door, Like what is happening like

1400
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 1: in the in the homes of people and this man,

1401
01:18:56,960 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 1: for better or worse, has been in people's homes for

1402
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: decades and they understand him as something. So if this

1403
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: makes people have to understand and grapple with the fact that, yes,

1404
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: the Kardashians aren't quote unquote famous for nothing, then maybe

1405
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: we'll have a better understanding of the American people. Yes,

1406
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 1: And gotta say, speaking of Trump reality TV, the journalists

1407
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,840
Speaker 1: out the gate who were covering him the best. We're

1408
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 1: journalists that had previously covered television or pop culture, and

1409
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: like my favorite reporting about him in the campaign or

1410
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:32,160
Speaker 1: the articles that tied back everything he was doing on

1411
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 1: the campaign trail and in office to the crap you

1412
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 1: saw him doing for years on the Apprentice. It's the

1413
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: same playbook. He uses, the same playbook, So like I

1414
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: honestly want to have political reporters that have watched every

1415
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: season of Survivor and American Idol, because like, that is

1416
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 1: the culture, and that is a culture that our politics

1417
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,960
Speaker 1: now operates in. You know, you hit a perfectly man.

1418
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 1: I got on soapbox about this ship, as you can tell.

1419
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's almost like like somebody said

1420
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:03,759
Speaker 1: to Andy Cohen, like, um, after he was doing a reunion,

1421
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: he was a great job with that reunion. He should

1422
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 1: moderate the debates, and then a couple a couple of

1423
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: people who are like, well, you know, yes, maybe he

1424
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,759
Speaker 1: would actually ask questions that people want to hear answered

1425
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 1: or wouldn't bail because these journalists have this sort of

1426
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 1: like they pretend that they're still decorum. It's like when

1427
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: Savanna's got three Savannah three and one of the last

1428
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: presidential elections, she said to him, in so many words,

1429
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 1: like you can't like like I'm not going to ask

1430
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:35,240
Speaker 1: you this question like a journalist. I'm asking you this

1431
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 1: question like a human like you hear you, but they

1432
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: don't behave like that, you know, and it's like we

1433
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 1: keep and this was the thing that we all had

1434
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: to figure out at the start of the Trump administration.

1435
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 1: Every White House reporter walking on that White House expected

1436
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:58,200
Speaker 1: Donald Trump to like and his press team to follow

1437
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: the rules of like the way that like you work

1438
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 1: with the press. Those weren't rules, they were norms. They

1439
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: were never written in stone. They were there because previous

1440
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 1: presidents chose to do it. Donald Trump has proven that

1441
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 1: everything that we thought was like etched in stone about

1442
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 1: the way DC works, it was just a gentleman's agreement.

1443
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 1: There's no rule book, you know, and and there's never

1444
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: gonna be one again. Even things constitutionally are just suggestions

1445
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 1: that this After the second impeachment, it's like, oh, so

1446
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 1: this is all meaningless? Got it? Like it's I don't

1447
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 1: know um. Early on in his term, so I so

1448
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: I covered the last campaign for NPR, and I was

1449
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 1: following Brownie around for a lot of yeah yeah, And

1450
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 1: then once Trump became president, I began making my new

1451
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: show in earnest, but I still did a little bit

1452
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 1: of political reporting. And I remember early on doing a

1453
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: story about Trump's like first violation of the Hatch Act,

1454
01:21:58,080 --> 01:21:59,800
Speaker 1: and I was like, are they going to get them?

1455
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 1: This is an ethics violation? And he violated the Hatch

1456
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 1: Act and now you're just like, it's a joke, a joke.

1457
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 1: It's a joke, you know, And that's I guess what

1458
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: worries me about. Um. Whenever anyone is like we need

1459
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 1: a healthy Republican party or rich across the aisle, or

1460
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:22,719
Speaker 1: like Biden as president, I'm like, this is a return

1461
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:26,560
Speaker 1: to what didn't work for such a long time. And

1462
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,680
Speaker 1: I at least have to be hopeful that like he

1463
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 1: because he's so because we were never going back after

1464
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: Trump like that, he'll have to listen to progressives as

1465
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 1: we um continue to hold him accountable and make sure

1466
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,679
Speaker 1: this country is moving in the direction needs to move.

1467
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 1: But I just it's hard to know that that we're

1468
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 1: returning to a place of like bro code, you know

1469
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 1: what I mean, Because that's really what the Constitution is is.

1470
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 1: It's like bro code. It's like a bunch of dudes

1471
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: being like like drunk at a frat party writing rules

1472
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 1: for their frat going forward hundreds of years, and the

1473
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 1: idiots and hundreds of years from that point are like, well,

1474
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 1: the dudes who made this said this, dude, and it

1475
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 1: has to be two thirds, dude, it can't just be

1476
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 1: a majority. Dude that when you when when it's impeachment, bro.

1477
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 1: Because when it's impeachment, bro, it's actually bigger. It should

1478
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 1: be bigger, So it should have to be more people.

1479
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 1: Though you know what I mean. Though it justels like stupid.

1480
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 1: It's like it was forty three this mote and we

1481
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 1: can't fucking say this guy is guilty of his crimes, Like,

1482
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:36,599
Speaker 1: give me a break. I think what is most interesting

1483
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:39,799
Speaker 1: to see happen in this moment because like, in spite

1484
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,840
Speaker 1: of all of America's attention being squarely focused on Donald

1485
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: Trump for the past four or five years and actuality,

1486
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 1: very little got done in d C. You know, like

1487
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 1: DC was not passing while safe for the tax cut,

1488
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:53,840
Speaker 1: there were no major packages and a lot of the

1489
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: stuff that made a lot of you know visual like

1490
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 1: woe was just Trump kind of screwing around on the

1491
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 1: border and like, but that was happening outside of Congress, right,

1492
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 1: And so in that absence of action, you see a

1493
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:14,759
Speaker 1: larger role from big business and like the making change

1494
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 1: for the country. And like what I am watching and

1495
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to say scared of, but maybe it's

1496
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 1: like we're gonna end up in a society where if

1497
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:29,040
Speaker 1: Washington keeps on doing nothing or being ineffectual. The Zuckerberg's

1498
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 1: and the bezos Is and the Dorseys are gonna actually

1499
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 1: run the world because they're gonna be able to move

1500
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 1: more quickly than DC ever can. It's um yeah, that's

1501
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 1: the whole premise of this video game that came out

1502
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 1: in December called Cyberpunge, and where it is like it's

1503
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: society is run by corporations. It's terrible, um I, but

1504
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 1: I did love it really quickly. I did love that,

1505
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:52,920
Speaker 1: Um you covered the Amazon um the best sumer uh

1506
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 1: sort of that that whole sort of unionizing story instead

1507
01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 1: of the in lieu of the impeachment, right, but that

1508
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 1: was I loved that just deliberately is a choice. Now

1509
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:05,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna say no. I was just saying

1510
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:06,720
Speaker 1: with with the one corporation of it all. And I

1511
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 1: also listened to the Amazon episode and thought it was great.

1512
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:10,799
Speaker 1: I mean it was like earlier when I was seeing

1513
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 1: when I was watching the Conways on American Idol, I'm like,

1514
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:17,120
Speaker 1: American Idol is owned by Disney. This is the biggest

1515
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: company in the world presenting the biggest show in the world,

1516
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: presenting the Kelly Can Conway Redemption arc, and I was

1517
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 1: just like, this feels disgusting to me because and then

1518
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 1: it feels like I almost was hesitant even like saying

1519
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 1: something about it because they are one of the one

1520
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:35,720
Speaker 1: companies that owns everything. And it's just like, that is

1521
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:42,080
Speaker 1: that's how you get situation when one corporate identity owns everything.

1522
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 1: And if we are headed to just a battle royale

1523
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 1: with Disney and Amazon, it's like, that's really scary, and

1524
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:51,640
Speaker 1: that's that's that's something that needs to be top of

1525
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,599
Speaker 1: mind because you, like God forbid, you were to get

1526
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 1: into a trouble with one of the few companies that

1527
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 1: runs the world. What are you gonna do? Yeah, it's sucking.

1528
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 1: It's crazy that you bring up Disney and their corporate power,

1529
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 1: because we're gonna drop this on Tuesday of this week tomorrow,

1530
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 1: I interviewed Abigail Disney, very critical of the company, and

1531
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 1: she lays out how she just thinks Disney has become

1532
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 1: a different company and it's it's they've got some like

1533
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:28,759
Speaker 1: evil empire tendencies that she thinks need to be checked.

1534
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: But she was going through the disparity between their lowest

1535
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:36,640
Speaker 1: earners and their highest earners. It's bonkers. It's bonkers. And

1536
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:38,680
Speaker 1: they were giving out big bonuses in the midst of

1537
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 1: the pandemic year or like stock buybacks of some sort,

1538
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 1: while they laid off like twenty like thousands of people

1539
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 1: who were like making the lowest wages. And it's not

1540
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:51,320
Speaker 1: just like Disney. This is like corporations right now period.

1541
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 1: And I feel like we don't talk about it enough,

1542
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 1: like companies. Companies are doing a lot that we just

1543
01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:00,760
Speaker 1: don't look at, and we need to look at. Sorry,

1544
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really just diet driving down, no, no, no,

1545
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 1: taking it all in. And the thing about Disney is

1546
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 1: what's really funked up about it is they do it

1547
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 1: with a smile, and they do it with their happy

1548
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 1: brand um, and that's that's that's nefarious. Well, because they're

1549
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: able to do two things at once, were like numerically

1550
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:24,720
Speaker 1: by the numbers, some of their financial practices draw a

1551
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 1: lot of scrutiny and a lot of folks say that's bad.

1552
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 1: But visually and the symbolism of Disney, it is so woke.

1553
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 1: Black Panther was the most impressive rollout I've ever seen

1554
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 1: from a company like that doing black stuff, and they

1555
01:27:40,439 --> 01:27:42,720
Speaker 1: made all of us love and regardless of race. So like,

1556
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: on the one hand, Disney as a company gets representation symbolically,

1557
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:51,479
Speaker 1: but are they are they taking care of all their people?

1558
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:55,080
Speaker 1: Don't let me, let me stop lose my job. It

1559
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 1: is sometimes just it almost feels like refreshing to talk

1560
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:00,080
Speaker 1: about how dark it is, because at least as a

1561
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:01,640
Speaker 1: knowledge of it, you know what I mean, Like, at

1562
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 1: least we're not like fifty years ago, like I'm drinking

1563
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 1: Coca CoA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got to talk about it.

1564
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 1: But anyway, Um, this sort of sentiment, how perfect for

1565
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, but perfect for I don't

1566
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 1: think so honey. I'm just sitting here like taking it

1567
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 1: all in, being like, yeah, oh my god, this is

1568
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:26,600
Speaker 1: so I have nothing to add. I'm just kind of

1569
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:30,600
Speaker 1: astonished at how dark everything is. But this, this is

1570
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: the perfect seguet. I don't think so honey, I mean truly.

1571
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:35,720
Speaker 1: So this is where we literally work it all out.

1572
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:38,280
Speaker 1: It's our sixty second segment where we take something in

1573
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 1: pop culture that we sorry, hate to say this word

1574
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:43,479
Speaker 1: but hate. I hate to say the word hate. Um,

1575
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:53,519
Speaker 1: and we sort of exercise the the First Amendment. Okay, yeah, okay,

1576
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 1: Matt this is I think, do you want to go first?

1577
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 1: You have something? I have something? Okay, So traditionally Matco

1578
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,120
Speaker 1: was first. This is Matt odds Is. I don't think so, honey.

1579
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 1: His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. President's Day?

1580
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:09,080
Speaker 1: Who gives the fun? Why do we need to celebrate

1581
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:14,120
Speaker 1: these fucking white slave owners, Like, what is the fucking deal?

1582
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:17,920
Speaker 1: Change the name to American Citizens Day? Celebrate us the

1583
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:21,639
Speaker 1: people that put them in fucking positions of power since

1584
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:24,519
Speaker 1: the beginning of this country, just so they can abuse

1585
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:27,599
Speaker 1: that power against us. No fucking thank you. I don't

1586
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:30,559
Speaker 1: think so, honey. Also, I'm sorry, but after the last

1587
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:33,799
Speaker 1: four years, I'm not ready to freaking kick my heels

1588
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 1: up and celebrate the person that happens to be president,

1589
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:41,479
Speaker 1: especially when they can become president based on shitty, fucking

1590
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 1: illegal means. So no thank you. President's Day. I don't

1591
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,880
Speaker 1: think what Joe Biden me right now is fucking pats

1592
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:51,360
Speaker 1: on the backs and fucking yea, Joe. He needs to

1593
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:53,160
Speaker 1: get to work. He needs to get to work for

1594
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 1: the American people. President's Day, I don't think so, honey.

1595
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:58,720
Speaker 1: I also don't think so honey. The Hall of presidents

1596
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 1: in Disney World knock it down and put up a

1597
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 1: damn roller coaster. I don't think so, honey. And that's

1598
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: one minute. That's a small roller coaster. It's not that girl.

1599
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 1: It ago in one circle. I don't care. It would

1600
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 1: still be more thrilling and more entertaining than anything in

1601
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 1: the Do you know what the title of that entertainment? Entertainment? Yes? Um,

1602
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 1: but like um, I just feel like one, I'm like,

1603
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: shut up. We don't have to do this anymore. Also,

1604
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:35,840
Speaker 1: I don't know why we just don't go to a

1605
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 1: system where like the holidays don't have to have a name.

1606
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:42,880
Speaker 1: Just so you got a day off, just say Federal

1607
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,080
Speaker 1: holiday number five, you know, give us one every quarter

1608
01:30:46,160 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: and just say day you know, it's like every year

1609
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:52,600
Speaker 1: you get twenty five days. You fucking deserve off. I

1610
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,960
Speaker 1: don't need to know what they are, and they don't

1611
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 1: actually be able to pick them. Yes, I also have

1612
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 1: no more excitement about new holidays. You know, after the

1613
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 1: protest last year, they're like, we're gonna push for June tenth.

1614
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: They become a holiday. And how do you feel? I

1615
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 1: don't know, girl, I don't know. It's it's another it's

1616
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 1: a holiday. Also, half of the folks talking about June

1617
01:31:13,200 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: teenth have never done June tenth. At the folks have

1618
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:18,760
Speaker 1: never done. It is not a thing that all the

1619
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: blacks do. As someone who's speaking for the blacks, well,

1620
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:25,760
Speaker 1: that that is the danger and some and some like

1621
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 1: cultural like like a thing like that where it's like,

1622
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: oh so then like from an outside point of view,

1623
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: like people think that everybody does this, I'm not like

1624
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:42,479
Speaker 1: I I like Lunar New Year, not exactly exactly, but

1625
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 1: there's a pressure, it seems like now to like really

1626
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:47,640
Speaker 1: like go get into it. Yeah, and it's like it

1627
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 1: is kind of very specific to East Asian culture. Um

1628
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 1: and and yeah, it's it took to apply a wholesale

1629
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 1: to like a whole group of people is really interesting

1630
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 1: to me. I don't now. I feel like usually when

1631
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 1: when it comes to holidays, like the one that gets

1632
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:06,879
Speaker 1: shipped on the most nowadays is fourth of July obviously

1633
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 1: because it's like we're not down to celebrate America. But

1634
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 1: President's Day is one that we really need to be targeted.

1635
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 1: That's just that's literally going out of its way to

1636
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 1: celebrate like this group of people that like suck. Yeah, yeah,

1637
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:24,680
Speaker 1: it's exactly. It's what Bowen always says or has been

1638
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 1: saying recently. It's the individualism over collectivism. It's like, why

1639
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 1: the funk. It's like, it's like, you're y'all are mad

1640
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:32,640
Speaker 1: that we live in a celebrity obsess culture, but we

1641
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 1: have a thing called President's Day. No yeah. I also,

1642
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 1: speaking of that bone, I really loved when you called

1643
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 1: out the folks who were kind of trying to be like, well,

1644
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:44,360
Speaker 1: I wasn't mean to Brittany in that time, and your

1645
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:46,639
Speaker 1: and your clap back was perfect because you're like, we're

1646
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:48,840
Speaker 1: not talking about you were talking about these systems and

1647
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 1: structures and love. And thank you for that, Bowen. I

1648
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 1: real appreciate it. You're welcome everyone, and thank you for

1649
01:32:56,960 --> 01:33:01,280
Speaker 1: being you. And I love you so much. And we

1650
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 1: had a sister conversation. I love this sister conversations um

1651
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:10,720
Speaker 1: to the moon and Okay, so now I love you

1652
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 1: so much that I'm actually gonna say it's your turn

1653
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:16,480
Speaker 1: to do I don't think, and it's the highest anticipated

1654
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 1: moment of my life and I don't think so, honey,

1655
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:23,960
Speaker 1: and his time actually starts now, I don't think, so, honey.

1656
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:30,559
Speaker 1: Diane A motherfucking Sawyer. Get your Nixon standing ass away

1657
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:34,160
Speaker 1: from this, this, this whole converse. I don't even want

1658
01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 1: her to apologize at this point, she's disappeared special in

1659
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:41,240
Speaker 1: the pandemic. I think I think the best thing for

1660
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 1: her to do is not even an announced that she's retiring,

1661
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:46,680
Speaker 1: is just to never show her face like she. I mean,

1662
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,360
Speaker 1: the Brittany of it all is disgusting, but then the

1663
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:52,640
Speaker 1: Whitney of it all is also equally as dark. She

1664
01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:56,080
Speaker 1: viciously goes after her in that damn interview, and it's

1665
01:33:56,200 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: honestly good for Whitney for like standing her, like asing

1666
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 1: that by being like, I don't know what it is, Diane,

1667
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:08,559
Speaker 1: do you know? Do you know like truly this woman

1668
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:12,840
Speaker 1: like was this like media like she she's the she

1669
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: was a tool for misogyny in the in the adds,

1670
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:18,640
Speaker 1: and like terrorized Connage Chown. Will never tear it, will

1671
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:26,080
Speaker 1: never forgive her for terrorizing Connage Chong. Diane, So you

1672
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:28,960
Speaker 1: found dead, not as dead as Mike Nichols, but still

1673
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:34,519
Speaker 1: found dead. I'm like, I love love Mr Nichols in

1674
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:38,599
Speaker 1: his work, but I think there's some darkness there. If

1675
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:40,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just she's that lady has always

1676
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:44,680
Speaker 1: been suspicious to me. She never and can I just

1677
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:48,599
Speaker 1: say this speaks to a larger theme that I'm trying

1678
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:51,760
Speaker 1: to do with my work. Stop with the gotcha journalism.

1679
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 1: It's never good for anybody, And you will get more

1680
01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 1: out of your guests if you're nice to them. But

1681
01:34:57,360 --> 01:34:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, the very comfrontational nature of her interviews and

1682
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:01,840
Speaker 1: then where it's like I got you, got you guys,

1683
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:05,000
Speaker 1: that's bad, that's malpractice. We don't have to do it

1684
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:08,120
Speaker 1: like that. Yes, we don't have to do that because

1685
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, you know who's actually a really good model

1686
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 1: for this today. I think I might be wrong on this,

1687
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:16,000
Speaker 1: but I think Gail King is like she doesn't do

1688
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:19,719
Speaker 1: got She just has a grace. Even with r Kelly

1689
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:21,880
Speaker 1: like she was, it wasn't about like getting him, It

1690
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 1: was just being like what is this? What do you

1691
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:28,120
Speaker 1: have to say? Whereas with what Dion story, it was

1692
01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 1: like just shoving that picture in front of in front

1693
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:33,960
Speaker 1: of Whitney was just like so yeah. And also not

1694
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 1: for nothing, but for her to be like a wealthy

1695
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:39,800
Speaker 1: white woman and be like what is this to like

1696
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:44,120
Speaker 1: to like to Whitney Houston, it feels really disgusting in retrospect.

1697
01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:46,880
Speaker 1: And also, you know what other interview of hers I

1698
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:53,160
Speaker 1: didn't like at all, Michael Jackson Brianna interview after everything

1699
01:35:53,200 --> 01:35:55,280
Speaker 1: happened with Chris Brown and Rihanna was ready to talk

1700
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:57,600
Speaker 1: about it. And I'll tell you who looks mortified the

1701
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:00,479
Speaker 1: entire time is Rihana because you can tell it was

1702
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:02,680
Speaker 1: not her choice to sit down with her. And I

1703
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 1: don't know what big PR company Rihanna was with that

1704
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:07,839
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, you're gonna do the interview with Diane

1705
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:10,000
Speaker 1: Diane Slayer because that's what we know, because it's gonna

1706
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:13,240
Speaker 1: get ratings. Because it certainly wasn't to the benefit of Rihanna,

1707
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 1: who looked miserable the entire time. So I'm in full

1708
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:21,360
Speaker 1: agreence with you. Boy, Radar are great album razing, I

1709
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:23,400
Speaker 1: mean so many of I mean, we were just talking

1710
01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 1: about Loud. Um. We fucking love Loud, we love rated

1711
01:36:26,880 --> 01:36:30,880
Speaker 1: are I love talk that talk, unapologetic of them, grow

1712
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: gone bad obviously to close the loop on this Diane thing,

1713
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:37,799
Speaker 1: I mean this to get into trouble with the Disney

1714
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:41,719
Speaker 1: of at all um like ABC News just owes America

1715
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:45,200
Speaker 1: an apology. I come up, come apologizing to Brittany or

1716
01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:48,920
Speaker 1: like Whitney Houston's family, it's just like apologize to us

1717
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: for the way that you like not to use this word,

1718
01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: but like normalized that kind of interview style. Yeah, like

1719
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:57,599
Speaker 1: that kind of I don't know us, it's just it's

1720
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 1: it's yeah. Barbara Walton's was the pioneer, of course. And

1721
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:03,479
Speaker 1: the thing here's the thing, though, we pick on these

1722
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:07,679
Speaker 1: women because because like they got these again celebrity interviews,

1723
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:11,799
Speaker 1: probably because it's what you're saying, Sam, the networks handed

1724
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:14,519
Speaker 1: off the interviews about the celebrities to these women network

1725
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:17,560
Speaker 1: and they were like, you know what that's and and

1726
01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:23,120
Speaker 1: so guaranteed if Peter Jennings does that interview, it's worse,

1727
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:25,439
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, so it was all

1728
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:28,360
Speaker 1: of media at the time. It's it's it's it's the

1729
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 1: way that we were cultured that those kind of interviews went.

1730
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:35,599
Speaker 1: And we're picking on the women because the larger structure,

1731
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:39,160
Speaker 1: which was the networks, gave the women those interviews. So

1732
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:44,280
Speaker 1: we we didn't start to I think the media industry,

1733
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,120
Speaker 1: popular culture at large, we didn't even unders begin to

1734
01:37:47,200 --> 01:37:49,519
Speaker 1: understand the era of those ways. We didn't even understand

1735
01:37:49,520 --> 01:37:52,280
Speaker 1: what it means to be woke until Obama. And I

1736
01:37:52,360 --> 01:37:55,120
Speaker 1: think Obama was just like a cultural reset because all

1737
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 1: of a sudden, having a black man in the space

1738
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:01,400
Speaker 1: where it just to be just used to be white

1739
01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:04,439
Speaker 1: man meant that we had to question everything, We had

1740
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 1: to question everything. I really think that, like the emergence

1741
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:13,040
Speaker 1: of okenness is tied to the cultural reset that was

1742
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 1: Barack Obama. It's him, but but but that is again

1743
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:20,120
Speaker 1: like you like having the connective tissue of pop culture

1744
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 1: like suspend together these like political hard newsy facts, which

1745
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 1: is like that's I mean, no, that's that's perfect. That's

1746
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 1: like such a holistic Also, like so much of that

1747
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:35,160
Speaker 1: narrative of the two eight election would set the stage

1748
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: for what happened in the election because it all took

1749
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:41,880
Speaker 1: place in the media. It's all I mean, Barack Obama

1750
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:46,040
Speaker 1: became a media star. Yes, he he was celebrated by

1751
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 1: the very thing that would then, whether they want to

1752
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:51,680
Speaker 1: admit to it or not, champion Donald Trump in two

1753
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:54,120
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen. It's about who is the star. That's

1754
01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:57,519
Speaker 1: why I always feel like something I always think is

1755
01:38:57,640 --> 01:39:01,639
Speaker 1: the start of the election will win the elections. That's

1756
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:05,840
Speaker 1: why people go to extremes, to to create stories all

1757
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:08,439
Speaker 1: the time. That's why Trump was as chaotic as he was,

1758
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:11,479
Speaker 1: because he constantly wanted to be the star. And I

1759
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:14,799
Speaker 1: think that he may have been the star of election,

1760
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:19,840
Speaker 1: but he also was the villain. It's hard to be both,

1761
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:21,840
Speaker 1: and it's hard to be both that you can't with

1762
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:25,679
Speaker 1: you can't keep being both exactly. It's like like any

1763
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 1: television program, people are going to want to change the channel.

1764
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:33,679
Speaker 1: So that's that's the dark side to the media controlling

1765
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:36,600
Speaker 1: so many things. It's like they will lose control. We

1766
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 1: have control. Oh yeah, well, and and like even the

1767
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:42,799
Speaker 1: fact that like a lot of us are still grappling

1768
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 1: with I still grapple with it. Some of the moments

1769
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:47,880
Speaker 1: in which my career has moved to the next level

1770
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:51,400
Speaker 1: the quickest have been on the backs of like disaster

1771
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:58,360
Speaker 1: like I the cacaphony of election and all the bad

1772
01:39:58,439 --> 01:40:00,880
Speaker 1: things that happened in that campaign a around Donald Trump

1773
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:05,120
Speaker 1: catapults in my career. Then, um, after George Floyd died,

1774
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:09,400
Speaker 1: the ratings from my show, the weekly users per week

1775
01:40:09,479 --> 01:40:13,959
Speaker 1: per downloads for the podcast version doubled in one episode,

1776
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:17,720
Speaker 1: then they tripled. They're still back at double but like

1777
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:19,960
Speaker 1: it feels weird to know that some of your professional

1778
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 1: success has literally come on the back of a dead

1779
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:25,080
Speaker 1: black man, you know, But this is what I indust

1780
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:27,640
Speaker 1: read that. This is how it's so weird, Like our

1781
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,600
Speaker 1: life blood is tragedy. I mean it is not. I

1782
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:33,000
Speaker 1: mean it's it's not. It's not because of anything. You

1783
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:35,880
Speaker 1: didn't within your control or power to like make that

1784
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 1: that happen. It was just circumstantial and unfortunate. But but yeah,

1785
01:40:41,320 --> 01:40:43,200
Speaker 1: I mean that is so interesting. I just don't think

1786
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 1: that you should like carry any sort of like no,

1787
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:50,320
Speaker 1: and yeah and not dread. It just makes you really

1788
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:53,400
Speaker 1: wonder and and like I think that I've I think

1789
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 1: the best thing that I can do to honor George

1790
01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:58,400
Speaker 1: Floyd's legacy is to amplify the voices that are shouting

1791
01:40:58,439 --> 01:41:00,640
Speaker 1: to the rooftops stop killing us, which is what we

1792
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 1: have been doing on the show since that happened. So

1793
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't feel guilt about it, but it is there's

1794
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:10,839
Speaker 1: a certain there's a certain perverse, there's a certain perverse

1795
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 1: economics to the news media industry because we never want

1796
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:18,600
Speaker 1: to say it, we never want to admit it, but

1797
01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:23,360
Speaker 1: the bad ship is often good for us. It's weird.

1798
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 1: It's weird, that's all I mean. It was just so

1799
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:28,240
Speaker 1: funny to me when people were saying on Twitter like

1800
01:41:28,479 --> 01:41:31,200
Speaker 1: l O L the news is boring now, and it's

1801
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 1: like the last thing anyone wants to hear is that

1802
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 1: they're boring. So in that way, you know that news

1803
01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:41,080
Speaker 1: media was like, is like, fuck now they're quaking. Let

1804
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:44,400
Speaker 1: me tell you every TV exactly, every TV exact doing

1805
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:50,799
Speaker 1: TV news is scared shitless because Joe Biden is many things,

1806
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:52,800
Speaker 1: but one of them that he is not He's he's

1807
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:56,400
Speaker 1: not exciting. He's like, he's just not. So it'll be

1808
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 1: interesting to see how, particularly like a place like CNN

1809
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:05,720
Speaker 1: chain is their coverage over time we'll see who well, uh,

1810
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:08,200
Speaker 1: we have we have come to the point where it

1811
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: is time for Sanders. I don't think so, honey. Now

1812
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:16,400
Speaker 1: are you ready and are you prepared? Can I tell

1813
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:19,680
Speaker 1: you how much I'm ready and prepared? So I was

1814
01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:21,919
Speaker 1: able to meet up with a group of friends safely

1815
01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:24,840
Speaker 1: for a week with them in a cabin in the

1816
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:28,200
Speaker 1: woods around New Year's And what we did one night

1817
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,639
Speaker 1: is went around the fire and did I don't think so, honey?

1818
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:36,760
Speaker 1: Come that is the best thing we've ever heard. Oh

1819
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:39,880
Speaker 1: my god, and so my friend Megan making Cain. Hey Megan,

1820
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:42,679
Speaker 1: she's listening. I know she's gonna be listening. I don't

1821
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:44,360
Speaker 1: think so, honey. And I was like, girl, you need

1822
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:46,160
Speaker 1: to record her. I don't think so, honey, because I

1823
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 1: can just make sure. Well, maybe hear it. So I'm

1824
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 1: going to send it to you. She had the best one.

1825
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:56,360
Speaker 1: We love to hear it. Okay, well, but in the

1826
01:42:56,479 --> 01:43:00,840
Speaker 1: meantime we are, we are quicking like a cable news

1827
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:06,479
Speaker 1: hosts umh my god, I can tell you. I'm sure

1828
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:08,920
Speaker 1: you won't. This is Sam Sanders. I don't think so, honey.

1829
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:13,040
Speaker 1: As time starts now, I don't think so honey. Duvet covers,

1830
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:21,160
Speaker 1: why though Jester flop entergy, there's no need gives you

1831
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:24,720
Speaker 1: a blanket, then you can just wash there. Why are

1832
01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:29,439
Speaker 1: you making easy ship hard? So for all the time

1833
01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:32,080
Speaker 1: the duvet covers have existed, they've never given us like

1834
01:43:32,600 --> 01:43:34,840
Speaker 1: a guide on how to get it right. Why isn't

1835
01:43:34,840 --> 01:43:37,000
Speaker 1: then why aren't the Why aren't the corners of duvet

1836
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 1: covers color coded to match inside the cover and the

1837
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:46,000
Speaker 1: top thing make it? It's like the duvet family wants

1838
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:48,479
Speaker 1: to make my life hard. They want to make it rough.

1839
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 1: And when I go into an airbnb where they even

1840
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:53,000
Speaker 1: just a goddamn blanket, but there's a duvet and a

1841
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:55,519
Speaker 1: duvet cover and all that ship, I give you a

1842
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:59,280
Speaker 1: three star to star review. I don't like them. Get

1843
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 1: him out of my face. Don't make easy ship hard.

1844
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:07,680
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, Duvet covers, you are dead on.

1845
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:10,720
Speaker 1: This is something in the culture that must be rectified. Now,

1846
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:15,200
Speaker 1: why do they exist? Why do they exist? Why do

1847
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:18,120
Speaker 1: you have to scuba dive into a stack of cloth

1848
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:24,519
Speaker 1: every time? Literally, and everyone's gonna everyone's gonna mention, Oh,

1849
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:26,240
Speaker 1: there are the ways, you know, you roll it up

1850
01:44:26,280 --> 01:44:28,880
Speaker 1: and then you flow. Those are the same pools that

1851
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,200
Speaker 1: tell you how to fold the fitted sheet. There is

1852
01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:36,760
Speaker 1: no way, there's no I didn't even know about this

1853
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 1: duvet until I had to make a room of my

1854
01:44:40,479 --> 01:44:42,280
Speaker 1: own and I bought a bed of my own, and

1855
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:44,679
Speaker 1: I had this duvet, and I was like, I thought

1856
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:48,240
Speaker 1: that was just a thicker blanket that went on top. No, bitch,

1857
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:53,519
Speaker 1: it's stupid duve nonsense. You have to put this on that,

1858
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:56,479
Speaker 1: on this on that. It's why are you making simple

1859
01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:00,960
Speaker 1: things hard? It's exactly what you said. And family is

1860
01:45:01,160 --> 01:45:07,240
Speaker 1: one of the worst families in the world. Criminals. Oh yeah, no,

1861
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:13,120
Speaker 1: they are horrors. They're responsible for horrors. Clarissa Duvet Morton Duvet,

1862
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:19,400
Speaker 1: Ashley Duvet. Ashley Duvet. Ashley Duvet is Megan McCain's best girlfriend.

1863
01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:23,120
Speaker 1: And they go to they go to tah together. They

1864
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:29,880
Speaker 1: do Oh they are so you know, how did you did?

1865
01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 1: You all both watch Barbon Star? Alright, Trish, okay, and

1866
01:45:37,479 --> 01:45:39,240
Speaker 1: you get that joke. You'll get that joke when you

1867
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:42,439
Speaker 1: see the movie. But fucking Ashley Duvet. She is not Trish.

1868
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 1: Energy is not trash. She's not Trish. Just get a blanket.

1869
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:50,720
Speaker 1: Just get a fucking blanket. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm

1870
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:53,280
Speaker 1: gonna ask you both. Is it not okay to sleep

1871
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:55,880
Speaker 1: with a duvet without a cover because it just feels

1872
01:45:55,920 --> 01:45:59,120
Speaker 1: weird and too soft? I mean, I don't think it's

1873
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:01,680
Speaker 1: weird because it's just like you, you live the way

1874
01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:03,640
Speaker 1: you want to live. And also like if if you

1875
01:46:03,720 --> 01:46:05,720
Speaker 1: skip the step of needed to put the duvet cover

1876
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:09,320
Speaker 1: on it, then good for you, more power to you. Unfortunately,

1877
01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:12,599
Speaker 1: it doesn't look right because we've been conditioned to think

1878
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:14,760
Speaker 1: that we got to put the duvet cover on the thing,

1879
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:17,760
Speaker 1: and that's how a bed looks. But girl, it's a

1880
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: whole extra step and it is complicated, very complicated, Levin.

1881
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:27,920
Speaker 1: It's one of the songs. It's one of a vine songs. Yes, yes,

1882
01:46:28,760 --> 01:46:30,559
Speaker 1: that felt. That was a good release for me. Thank

1883
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 1: you all for giving me that space. That was an

1884
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:35,679
Speaker 1: incredible one. You've been giving top shelf, top level pop

1885
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:38,920
Speaker 1: culture commentary and then to get your I don't think

1886
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 1: so many opportunity And it's duvet that is so that

1887
01:46:42,560 --> 01:46:46,720
Speaker 1: the power that that has the power that has the

1888
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:54,000
Speaker 1: international inflisra that has I love it. I love it

1889
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:56,840
Speaker 1: such a delight I have been, I'm telling you, and

1890
01:46:57,280 --> 01:46:58,880
Speaker 1: I'll keep playing it because I mean, I've been listening

1891
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:02,280
Speaker 1: out for a while and I love what y'all are doing.

1892
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:07,559
Speaker 1: Like there's there's such a great balance between like totally

1893
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:11,040
Speaker 1: off the dome riffing free association matched with and I

1894
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 1: know this, I can tell when y'all have really thought

1895
01:47:13,479 --> 01:47:16,240
Speaker 1: deeply about a thing and spend time processing how you

1896
01:47:16,320 --> 01:47:18,840
Speaker 1: feel about it before you tell us about it. So

1897
01:47:19,240 --> 01:47:21,120
Speaker 1: y'all do it really well. You make it seem like

1898
01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:23,120
Speaker 1: you just show up, But I know you're preparing and

1899
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:25,880
Speaker 1: I hear it and it's just great and I love

1900
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:29,040
Speaker 1: what you'll do. Like linguistically, you're playing with language in

1901
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:33,040
Speaker 1: a way that I just find it's like any playing

1902
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:36,960
Speaker 1: like jest or flop making that I don't think, so

1903
01:47:37,120 --> 01:47:40,440
Speaker 1: honey a thing the whole meaning of the word cathartic

1904
01:47:41,000 --> 01:47:44,280
Speaker 1: like this is like like playing with the language in

1905
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:46,600
Speaker 1: a way that like, honestly, I think like pushes the

1906
01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:48,960
Speaker 1: English language forward. So I don't know, I just come

1907
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:54,640
Speaker 1: into work. Language is ridiculous to please. You are so

1908
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:58,400
Speaker 1: incredibly smart. You are such an aspirationally good host. You're

1909
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:00,640
Speaker 1: such a warm host. I think and I both know

1910
01:48:00,720 --> 01:48:02,760
Speaker 1: that from being guests on your show and being made

1911
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:05,840
Speaker 1: to feel so special and so interesting by you, and

1912
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:10,360
Speaker 1: you really do um um. You really just have such

1913
01:48:10,439 --> 01:48:13,759
Speaker 1: a great way of getting in there on all the topics.

1914
01:48:13,800 --> 01:48:16,240
Speaker 1: And I, like I said, this Whitney episode was a highlight.

1915
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:20,960
Speaker 1: I also loved your fashion episode about it during the quarantine.

1916
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:24,080
Speaker 1: I thought that was really illuminating and to be it

1917
01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:26,080
Speaker 1: would be an honor if we could call ourselves a

1918
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 1: sister podcast to yours and listen sisters sisters, all the sisters.

1919
01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:32,600
Speaker 1: And also I realized now I've had both of you

1920
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:34,720
Speaker 1: on separately. Next time we do this, I've gotta come

1921
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:39,760
Speaker 1: on together. We would be figured out. Always love to

1922
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:42,680
Speaker 1: be asked anywhere. Well, everyone, please check out. It's been

1923
01:48:42,680 --> 01:48:46,320
Speaker 1: a minute with Sam Sanders. Um and I mean, just what,

1924
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:49,080
Speaker 1: what a true pleasure this was? I loved, I mean,

1925
01:48:49,120 --> 01:48:51,840
Speaker 1: one of our best answers to the question, one of

1926
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 1: one of my favorite. I don't think so, Honey's truly

1927
01:48:55,240 --> 01:48:59,000
Speaker 1: this episode has it all and um and I can't

1928
01:48:59,040 --> 01:49:02,839
Speaker 1: think of a the better just a better all around episode.

1929
01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:05,800
Speaker 1: Now do you agree? I would, I would agree this

1930
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:12,759
Speaker 1: was a classic and this and we had an amazing

1931
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:17,519
Speaker 1: time and I think that bowen, Um, we have to

1932
01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:20,320
Speaker 1: finish with the song we and I know just the

1933
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:32,880
Speaker 1: song impossible, play possible or play country bokings to the

1934
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:46,360
Speaker 1: Prince and joined a marriage. I don't know, just yeah

1935
01:49:46,439 --> 01:49:48,200
Speaker 1: and then wait they'll hold on weight. We gotta say,

1936
01:49:48,560 --> 01:49:51,240
Speaker 1: just just just just finished with these two words. Same

1937
01:49:51,320 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 1: knees and fools, all right, bye, I stoop to boot