1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: Matt's and today we're discussing the real reason to avoid debt. Yeah, boy, 3 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: in this episode is all about debt. We talked about 4 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: debt all the time, but we are going to specifically 5 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: talk about why it is that we want to make 6 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: sure that we avoid debt. There are some of the 7 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: obvious reasons, of course, that we're gonna touch on, but 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: there are several other what we're gonna call real reasons 9 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: that you should be avoiding debt. And there are things 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: that I think we we tend to avoid. It's something 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: that we discount, but these are very important things and 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: I'm excited to get to those, Buddy, Yeah, yeah, it 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: should be good. And you know, it's funny. At the 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: dinner table last night we were talking about debt. My 15 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: seven year old is learning a lot about Georgia history. 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: She's learning about James Oglethorpe, who who essentially founded the 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: colony here and um and part of his mission was 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: to eliminate debtors prisons and to give people that were 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: in prison due to having too much debt in uh 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: in Great Britain a fresh start over here in the 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: United States. So I'm glad to report, Yeah, I'm glad 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: to I'm glad that's still remaining successful that there are 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: no debtors prison here at least. Um, if you owe 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: somebody money and you can't pay, you're not gonna get 25 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: tossed into jail for it. But there's certainly a lot 26 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: more reasons to avoid debt than going to jail, even 27 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: though that's not a consequence we were facing in the 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: United States theusdays. But Matt, before we get to that, 29 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: let's talk about our printer Toner. Let's give it this 30 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: is our brother printer or update. So several months or 31 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: a few months ago now it is a little over 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: three months, we talked about how our our printer gave 33 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: us a little warning messages it stopped printing and it's 34 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: aid replaced owner. Uh, And I was like, wait what 35 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: we we just got this thing, like we really hadn't 36 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: had it that long. We started using it in May. 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that. Yeah, And and 38 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: this was in October that we got that message. So 39 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: we talked about how we we looked up how to 40 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: bypass that message, and the reason for that is because 41 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: our printer was working fine. I mean, it was printing 42 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: perfectly fine up until then, and all of a sudden, 43 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: the message popped up, it stopped printing. We bypassed that 44 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: and we continued to print just fine up until a 45 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: few days ago. A few days ago, Uh, you and 46 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: I were printing something off and we noticed there's kind 47 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: of the streaks across the paper. We took out the 48 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: toner cartridge. You gave the old shake. You love shaking 49 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: the toner cartridge like weight, you know. Uh, you popped 50 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: the back in there, and uh yeah, we we've got 51 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: several more prints out of it. But I think we're 52 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: at the point now to where we're going to finally 53 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: have to replace the toner cartridge. But I wanted to 54 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: point that out because a first of all, it's like, okay, 55 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: you gotta know the three months out of it, big whoop. 56 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: But dude, seriously, we didn't start using that thing until 57 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: the very end of April. I look back in our 58 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: correspondence when we were talking about the printer purchasing it 59 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: for the for the office here. So if you do 60 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: the math, that means we got more life out of 61 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: that toner cartridge, which is huge. That's a big deal. 62 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: Granted these things don't cost very much, but it's the 63 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: little winds, uh, these little ways that we're able to, 64 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: you know, just tweak a little bit and make sure 65 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: that we're able to keep more money in our own pockets. Yeah, 66 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: it's it's almost like squeezing that tub but toothpaste all 67 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: the way down to the very bottom bottom and getting 68 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: like three more brushes out of it or eight more 69 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: brushes out of it or whatever. And I know people 70 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: have throwing techniques for doing that, but we kind of 71 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: basically did that with the toner cartridge here, um, and 72 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm proud of us, man, I think that's a good move. 73 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: And yeah, next time your printer is is telling you 74 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: to replace a cartridge and it still looks like it's 75 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: pretty completely fine, don't listen to it. See if you 76 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: can override that control. You know, your printer in all 77 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: likelihood isn't the exact same as ours. But I'm sure 78 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: there's a method for you to be able to do that, 79 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: so you can extend the life of the cartridge or 80 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: the toner that you've got. Don't just toss it out 81 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: because the computer tells you to. Yeah, that's right. Luckily, 82 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: we actually do have another toner cartridge on deck because 83 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: it was on sale when we purchased the printer, and 84 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, we totally need one of those stocking up. 85 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: That's what we totally did. We have that and you 86 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: were like, what are you doing there? Yeah, you bought 87 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: that as well as this giant don't what do you 88 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: call those? The giant boxes of pay for this got 89 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: like eight reams of of paper? Is that what they're called? 90 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: Like the reems? I mean, we have so much freaking 91 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: paper We're never going to go through all of it. 92 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: But I mean, hey, you got it on sale. And 93 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: I think our listeners are proud of the fact that, 94 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, anytime you put us together, like we take 95 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: being cheap and frugal kind of to the next level. 96 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: We're frugal on our own, but then you combine us 97 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: and we're just capable of so much more. All let's 98 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: go ahead and introduce our beer for this episode. This 99 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: is a beer, another beer by Heist Brewery, and this 100 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: one is called emo J, so it's like o J, 101 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: but it's emo J. This is a double I P 102 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: A and uh yeah, looking forward to sharing this one 103 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: with you, Bud, and we will share our thoughts on 104 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: this beer at the end of the episode sounds good 105 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: man looking forward to it, all right, but let's get 106 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: onto the subject at hand. We're talking about the real 107 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: reason to avoid debt and Matt thinking about this episode, 108 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: it made me think about David Foster Wallace, famous writer, 109 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: uh and and he gave this uh incredibly famous commencement 110 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: speech at Kenyan College back in the day. I think 111 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: it was back in early two thousands. Maybe, dude, I 112 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: feel like all the best commencetion speeches were back in 113 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: like the two thousand's, you know, I'm thinking of like 114 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Will Ferrell, like all the good ones. 115 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: Getting nostalgic for those, Oprah. Maybe you can go back 116 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: to YouTube and and you know, watch them to your 117 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: heart's contending. But in particular, Yeah, one of the things 118 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: he said in that commencement speech with which has been 119 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: something that has uh stuck with with anybody who's heard 120 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: that speech. He gives this example of fish swimming in water, 121 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: and these two young fish happened to meet older fish 122 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: along the way, and the older fish nods at them 123 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: and says, more than boys, how's the water? And then 124 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: the two young fish keeps swimming for a little bit. 125 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: Eventually one of them looks over to his buddy and says, 126 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: what the hell is water? And uh and basically Wallace 127 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: then goes on to argue that that we tend to 128 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: live our lives according to values and rules that are 129 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: hard to see, much less defined, and and I think 130 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: Matt such in such a similar way. We live in 131 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: a culture that that pushes us to go into debt 132 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: for everything. Um, it's like the message that we're constantly 133 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: bombarded with. It's the water that we kind of swim 134 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: in in our society. Um. And I think you and 135 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: I in this episode, we're going to push back on 136 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: that messaging and give some real reasons to avoid debt. 137 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: The nasty clutches of debt, Uh extend so far into 138 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: so many areas of our lives, and so there's just 139 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: like a ton of great reasons to be avoiding it 140 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: as much as possible. Yeah, debt, it's pervasive. It's it's 141 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: so commonplace, man, that we're hardly even aware of the 142 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: fact that you know that it's not normal. We haven't 143 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: always lived in a society fueled by debt and increased 144 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: consumption that it allows and actually it pushes us towards 145 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: ever increasing amounts and varieties of indebtedness. Right, Americans currently oh, 146 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: more than fourteen trillion dollars in consumer debt overall, the 147 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: average American is in more than six thousand dollars in 148 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: credit card debt. And then you know, we all know 149 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,679 Speaker 1: that the student loan debt is basically at a crisis level, 150 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: right over one point six trillion dollars in total. Uh, 151 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: those numbers can be hard to even just wrap our 152 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: brains around, and and sometimes we kind of just tune 153 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: them out because they are hard to fathom. But you know, 154 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: student loan debt has increased by over one hund percent 155 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: in the past ten years alone. Wow. Yeah, that's crazy, 156 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: certainly awful for so many people graduating college these days. 157 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: Even back when you and I went to college, uh, 158 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: you know, almost twenty years ago, it was a student 159 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: that was at a completely different point. It wasn't talked 160 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: about the way it is today because it wasn't as 161 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: awful and as awful of a spot as it is 162 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: today affecting so many people so negatively. And then on 163 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: top of that, uh, let's talk about other kinds of 164 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: debt like car debt has become far more common than 165 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: ever two. According to Experience, the average new car payment 166 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: is five hundred and fifty four dollars a month, and 167 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: that's a big chunk of a lot of people's monthly 168 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: budget if they're driving a new car. And what if, Matt, 169 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: they're driving not a car but a truck instead. Even moment, 170 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: it gets far, far worse. Right, Friend of the show 171 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: Ben Carlson ran the numbers not too long ago on 172 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: his website, and he found that most folks are going 173 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: to spend anywhere between eight hundred and thirteen hundred dollars 174 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: a month over sixty months, over five years in order 175 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: to buy a truck. So crazy. That's before gasing insurance. 176 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: So you're talking about uh and the toe package in 177 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: the toe package is gonna ramp that cost stuff even more. 178 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,679 Speaker 1: And that's of course gonna be a major drain on 179 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 1: your outgoing funds every single month for a long period 180 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: of time. That is like, that's what we're talking about 181 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: in this episode. Yeah, and given the mathematical answer to 182 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: why debt like this is bad can also be helpful, right, So, 183 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: assuming just a measly five percent rate of return, that 184 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: same monthly amount invested over thirty years would grow to 185 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: about four and fifty thousand dollars um. But the thing is, 186 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, that's not all there is to it. Debt 187 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: impacts us in so many other ways. And that's exactly 188 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: what we're gonna be discussing today. We're gonna talk about 189 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: the far reaching negative effects of debt on this episode. Yeah, 190 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: and and part of it is just newer kinds of 191 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: debt that are taking people by stage. Uh. We just 192 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: there's just so many more options at our disposal then 193 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 1: there used to be. Marketers and companies are always coming 194 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: up with new ways for us to get and then 195 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: stay indebted to them. Uh there's like to buy now, 196 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: pay later, which which sounds so nice. Or there's zero 197 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: percent interest for three years you don't pay until, or 198 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: something like that. Uh. Those furniture stores are are trying 199 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: to get you to come in and buy something that 200 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: you don't actually have to pay for today. Um, and 201 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: of course it sounds lovely until the payday comes. Yeah. 202 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: Credit card companies to man, I just renewed, I just 203 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: activated a new credit card, and you know it was 204 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: just got old, and so they send you new ones 205 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: that you have to activate. And while I was activating 206 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: the card, the guy was just like, also, by the way, 207 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: we are offering you a zero percent interest until August 208 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: of this year, would you like us to go ahead 209 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: and activate that for you? Assuming I was gonna say yes, 210 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: And I was just like no, no thanks, And he 211 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: restated it two or three different times, thinking that I 212 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: didn't understand what he was saying, like, no, man, you 213 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: don't get it. Yeah, I like no, I I said, 214 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: I don't want that. And I didn't want it because 215 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: just in case there's I don't know any additional things 216 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: associated with it that I didn't really want to give 217 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: any time to to reading about. I didn't want anything 218 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: else sent to me in the mail. And of course 219 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: I didn't care about the zero percent because I didn't 220 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: I don't carry debt on those cards. But daying, I 221 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: feels debt set on making sure I was gonna take 222 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: advantage of that opportunity. Yeah, I mean, I think the 223 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: main appeal, you know, when when somebody like that is 224 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: trying to trying to pitch that to you, or you know, 225 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: these other businesses that are offering you access to to 226 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: get something today for a very small down payment and 227 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: then pay for it for years to come. The main 228 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: appeal is that it doesn't feel like you're spending as 229 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: much as you actually are, um and that can feel 230 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: good for a minute. And of course, installment loans for 231 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: nearly everything you can want are just so easily accessible 232 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: these days. But but most folks are going into debt 233 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: in order to buy rapidly depreciating assets right that they're 234 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: trying to inflict their lifestyle by living on more than 235 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: they bring home, and so buying something on credit that's 236 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: quickly losing its value becomes an even worse move. I mean, 237 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: there's the idea of just buying something that's going to 238 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: quickly lose its value altogether. But if you're buying it 239 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: to pay for it over an extended period of time 240 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: while paying interest on that item, you compound a decision 241 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: that's already not a great one. Yeah, dude, it's truly 242 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: a countercultural move, you know, to minimize debts or even 243 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: avoiding it all together. But you know, you and I 244 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: we are totally fine doing things differently being looked at 245 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: a little like like weirdos. And the thing is too, man, 246 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: I don't think we're alone. Because this last year we 247 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: actually saw consumer debt levels decreased, you know, unfortunately a 248 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: lot of folks saw their incomes decrease. But what's amazing 249 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: is that they're spending I guess decreased by even more, 250 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, like that in the stimulus checks, and they're 251 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: tossing that money straight at their credit card debt, which 252 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: was which was awesome to see. Yeah, very encouraging to 253 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: hear that. But again, there are so many other benefits 254 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: and other reasons to live life on your own terms 255 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: and to keep your debt to a minimum. Uh. And 256 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss more of that right after this break. 257 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: All right, man, let's get back to what we're talking 258 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: about debt and the real reasons to avoid debt. Obviously, 259 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: there's the math of it, all right, And you're paying 260 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: interest for something when if instead you had bought it 261 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: with cash, you'd saved up and you were investing money instead, 262 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: you just ran the numbers and uh, it's a big 263 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: dichotomy right in how that money works for you versus 264 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: it putting you in an insecure position. Um. And it's 265 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: important to note though, Uh, we've talked about this before 266 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: on the show, but that not all debt is bad. 267 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: So let's talk about that just for a minute. Debt 268 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: can make more sense when you're using it specifically to 269 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: invest in something, and let's talk about a couple of 270 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: ways that that happens. One is that you can use 271 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: debt to invest in yourself, and this could be taking 272 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: out student loans in order to go to college or 273 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: get an advanced degree. UM. I feel like it's kind 274 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: of weird that we just talked about how awful student 275 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: loans are and how bad of a place certain but 276 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: but really, at times, student loans can be useful for 277 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: for people in order to get to the place they 278 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: want in order to earn more over their entire working career. 279 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: I took on student loans um when I was in college. 280 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: I was fortunate that they were kept to a minimum. 281 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: I think I graduated with like fourteen dollars and student loans, 282 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: which is definitely less than most people these days. Uh. 283 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: It also could be getting a professional certification that will 284 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: enhance your career. Investing in yourself pays dividends for decades 285 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: to come. I would say, don't get too cheap here 286 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: and avoid debt to the point that you'd be harming 287 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 1: your future prospects. That here inhibiting your your future growth potential. Right. Yeah. Yeah, 288 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: being frugal is going to a community college taking some 289 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: great courses, right and being sure to limit your debtload. 290 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: Being cheap is completely avoiding that deatload altogether and having 291 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: no education and appreciating assets like real estate. Man, that 292 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: can also be worth accumulating debt for, right, especially if 293 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: that asset will be generating cash flow for you. And 294 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: so if you're buying a home to live in and 295 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: and you know a house hack a portion, or maybe 296 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: you're buying a multi family house in order to rent 297 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: out all of the units, well, you know, in those cases, 298 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: taking on debt is often the only way to get 299 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: into small time real estate investing. Yeah, and debt in 300 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: in that scenario makes sense because it's the only way 301 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: you're going to be able to get into that game. Yeah, 302 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: some folks stay to to save up cash and do everything, 303 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, completely det free. But that's that's something that 304 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: we advocate for. Yeah, it's just too high of a 305 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: bar for almost everyone to meet. That I understand why 306 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: somebody would suggest that, but um, yeah, we don't feel 307 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: the same. But even in the course of taking out debt, 308 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: for investment purposes, whether you're investing in yourself or real estate, 309 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: it's important to use it judiciously, right, think about what 310 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: the return is going to be, and if it's worth 311 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: taking on debt in the first place. Can you potentially 312 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: save up longer to avoid that debt or just to 313 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: take on less debt when you're making that move, Can 314 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: you go to a school that's not going to cost 315 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: as much Matt like you mentioned, or or can you 316 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: save up for another year to have more of a 317 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: down payment to put down on that real estate purchase 318 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: that you're planning, which puts you on more solid financial ground. Right, 319 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: even when we're talking about quote unquote good debt, it's 320 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: important still at the same time to tread lightly and 321 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: not take on whatever debt is available to you just because, um, 322 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: just because you can totally man. Yeah, And so that's 323 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote good debt. Let's talk about bad debt. 324 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: This is the debt that you should be you know, 325 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: most careful of. And we're talking about here, consumption fueled debts. 326 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: That's what you want to avoid. Uh, you know, anything 327 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: that you are buying with your credit cards and that 328 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: you're not able to pay off at the end of 329 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: the month. That is consumption fueled debt. Credit cards, dude, 330 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: they are amazing. They rock as a method of payment, 331 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: but not so much as a way to buy stuff 332 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: that you can't afford, you know, And if you're only 333 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: able to pay the minimums or you know, are close 334 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: to it, you can end up paying twice as much 335 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: for everything that you're buying once you include interests. So 336 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, if you're struggling to use credit cards in 337 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: a way that doesn't get you into trouble, then it's 338 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: going to be best to avoid them all together. Yeah, 339 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: that is interesting, Matt. That over time, if you're just 340 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: paying the minimums whatever you bought, Let's say you bought 341 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: an Ikea desk or a hundred fifty dollars based on 342 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: the interest rate, um, if you're paying it off over 343 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: years to come, because you're only paying the minimums, you 344 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: might pay three dollars to that desk. And we all 345 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: know three dollars for an Ikea desk is way too much. 346 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: Definitely not worth it. Particle board, you know, it's just 347 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: it's not gonna even last that long. Let's be honest. 348 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: But let's go back to car loans. For a second 349 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: to like, long term car loans are as sempt of 350 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: consumption in our society. You know, before the break, we 351 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: talked about how awful and expensive these loans can get 352 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: on a monthly basis. Well, the worst part is that 353 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: the average car loan has been getting longer and longer 354 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: over the years. So you know, we talked about based 355 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: on a sixty month cycle, what it would look like. 356 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: What's what a truck payment would look like. Well, oftentimes 357 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: people are stretching their debt payments on a new vehicle 358 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: out for seven or eight years, so crazy. Yeah, and 359 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: I feel like that in turn has led to more 360 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: expensive cars and a generation of people buying the car 361 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: based on the payments alone, really just stretching their financial 362 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: limits in order to buy a vehicle that they never 363 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: should have considered in the first place. Yeah, it really 364 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: does feel that folks are only looking at the payment. 365 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: You know, the the cost of cars have gone up 366 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: and in the length of the terms have also extended. 367 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: But you know, you know what, they're able to maintain 368 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: the same payments because they're stretching it out with even 369 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: more interests over more years. Yeah, and then again puts 370 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: you in a precarious financial situation. Um, if something happens 371 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: to your car, or if you decide to trade that 372 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: car in for a new one, you're only compare funding 373 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: again the negative debt situation that that you're in, right, right, 374 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 1: So let's do let's keep moving on. Let's touch on 375 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: like the traditional reasons to get out of debt. You know, uh, 376 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: you've likely heard that you're not supposed to be in debt. 377 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: Some money experts out there have spoken about the idiocy 378 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: of going into debt in such harsh terms that it 379 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: is like permanently scarred anybody listening. But in the fact 380 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: that you or I just even mentioned credit cards as them, 381 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: like you knowing their ears what happened? Right, But dude, honestly, 382 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: fear of getting yelled at by like a radio talk 383 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: show host, Like, that's not a great reason to avoid debt. 384 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: And of course, we talk about getting out of debt 385 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: all the time here on our show. Uh, And the 386 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: way that we typically talk about it is from the 387 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: angle of the amounts of money that you're losing every 388 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: month to interest. Right, we use basic math and highlight 389 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: the fact that you want interest working for you, uh, 390 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: instead of against you. We've used the illustration before of 391 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: an escalator, right, And when you have interest working against you, 392 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of like you're trying to run up the 393 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: wrong escalator, which you can be fine, let's be on. 394 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: It's a challenge, I'll say that, right. Uh, but think 395 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: about how long it takes you to get to that 396 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: next level. That's what it's like when you have interest 397 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: working against you. But when you have interest working for you, 398 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: it's like you're sprinting up the side that is going 399 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: the right way. Uh. And isn't it just so fun 400 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: how quickly you arrived at the next level? You know, 401 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:18,719 Speaker 1: it makes me I mean, it's been forever since I've 402 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: kind of been out in public on an escalator. But 403 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: are you the kind of person who like stands on 404 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: the escalator and like rides it up or are you 405 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: a walker? I'm a walker? Are you? I'm not like 406 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: a fast walker? You know, there's certain people that you're like, 407 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: don't get in their way two steps at a time, 408 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: but you can hand at the airport, Yeah, yeah, they're 409 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if they're late for the plane or 410 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: what's going on, but they're they're intent on moving sidewalks 411 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: on their mission. Yeah, honestly, would you say that this 412 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: is what it feels like when you have an e 413 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: bike because you're still peddling, but you're just going away faster. 414 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: That's how it is on a moving sidewalk where an escalator, 415 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: Like you're still walking, but the things moving with you, 416 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: and it's like you're a bionic human being, you know, 417 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: like you're able to cover so much ground. Now, it's 418 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty similar. Yeah, but yeah, I'm I'm a 419 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: walker as well. I don't write it unless I'm with 420 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: a kid, because they get freaked out by the escalator, 421 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: at least mine. Dude. Yeah, well, that's a good illustration though, because, um, 422 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: while it might be fun, especially you know when we 423 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: were younger to try to run up the escalator that's 424 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: going the wrong way, I got energy for that anymore. Yeah, exactly. 425 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 1: But that's exactly what it's like when when you've incurred 426 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: too much debt, you are finding yourself going going against 427 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: the flow, You're battling up hill and there's there's so 428 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: many reasons for that. So yeah, we've talked about like 429 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: some of the traditional reasons to get out of debt 430 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: um and and those are I think compelling, but man, 431 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: I think that there are a ton of other reasons 432 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: actually that people should really consider getting out of debt, 433 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: the real reason, the real reasons it affects them in 434 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: so many other ways. We're gonna get to all of 435 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: those reasons, and I think they're going to be super 436 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: compelling for our listeners. So, like, let's say you have 437 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: maybe thought of your debt as not really being that bad, 438 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 1: or maybe you're like, you know, I can play with 439 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: it at least a little bit, and I can get 440 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: into a little bit of debt, or I cannot pay 441 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: my credit cards for a few months, and you know what, 442 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: because of these other effects that debt has on your life, 443 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 1: we would ask you to reconsider that. And so we'll 444 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: get into those effects and how bad they can actually 445 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: be right after this break. All right, we are back 446 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: from the break, and now it is time for the 447 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: real reasons to get out of debt. Um First, the man, 448 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: saving money on interest is huge, right, and like we 449 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: don't want to diminish that, But there's more to the 450 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: story of what having less debt actually means in your life, 451 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, Like we found either thro your personal experience 452 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 1: and you know what we hear every day from how 453 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: the money listeners that the mental and the emotional, the 454 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: psychological side of not owing anyone anything, or at least 455 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: being in complete control of your your debt obligations is 456 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: incredibly freeing, right you know. So, aside from the math, 457 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: aside from the numbers, here are the real reasons that 458 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: we want folks to avoid debt. And the first one 459 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: we want to touch on is the stress involved with 460 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: having debt in your life. You know, many of us 461 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: have personally felt the effects of of money stress in 462 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: our own lives, but you know, it can also have 463 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: the big impact on those around us as well. Debt 464 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: can negatively impact our relationships either with you know, our 465 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: our partner as well as our children. According to a 466 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: study by the Decision Lab, individuals have experienced a negative 467 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: impact on relationships because of debt in their lives. Yeah. Man, 468 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: I mean I grew up in a house where my 469 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: parents loved each other deeply. They still love each other deeply, 470 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: but I remember money was an issue. Money caused a 471 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: lot of stress. Money caused some fights. Um, that was 472 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: hard on the kids, That was hard on us growing up, 473 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: That was hard on my parents. Um. And so yeah, 474 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: I've seen firsthand the role that debt can take in 475 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: a marriage and how it can cause the levels of 476 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: stress to rise severely, and um, I know some of 477 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: our listeners have experienced that to firsthand. So yeah, I'm 478 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: actually surprised it's as low as because it just feels 479 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: like it's one of those things where so many people 480 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: are in debt in our country and that alone it 481 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: does impact relationships in a negative way. Yeah, I guess 482 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: the other seventy five they're just kind of taking that 483 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: debt and just kind of stuffing in away, like packing 484 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: it away, so which I'm sure will end up being uh, 485 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: not a wise thing to do, right, Yeah, it'll come 486 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: up at some point. And another reason to avoid debt 487 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: another one of the real reasons is that it makes 488 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: us dumber. Being in debt and struggling to pay our 489 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: bills has has been shown to lower our the i 490 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: Q by thirteen points. I don't have thirteen points of 491 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: spiritual so that's why that's that's why I'm not in debt. Yeah, yeah, 492 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: we don't want you going on the Forest Gump levels, 493 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: you know, But like when you when you look at 494 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: the facts, when you look at the stats, researchers have 495 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: pointed to the fact that this scarcity mindset is actually 496 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: different than stress. Right, it seems similar, but there's a 497 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: difference here. It can make you less reasonable, less rational, 498 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: less generous, and more subject to bad ideas and bad 499 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: impulses and matt with how unreasonable and um and irrational 500 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: you are. I would have thought you had been a 501 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: lot of debt, you'd think, But I make it up 502 00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: in generosity, there must be. You can overcompensate. O good, 503 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: that's good, That's how it works. But basically, like living 504 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: in access, debt can damage your psyche in a meaningful way. 505 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: And it can actually make you feel like you're walking 506 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: through life with like handcuffs around your brain. Your debt 507 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: can make you feel dumber than you actually are. Yeah, 508 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: and dude, not actually just our minds, right, it impacts 509 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: our bodies as well. And Associated Press survey man They 510 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: found that individuals with high levels of debt related stress 511 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: are more than three times as likely to suffer from 512 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: ulcers and other digestive problems compared to people with lower 513 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 1: debt stress. They're also twice as likely to have heart problems, 514 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: including arrhythmias and heart attacks. Dude A and the Federal 515 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: Reserve Bank of Atlanta. They have research that shows that 516 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: debt leads to higher mortality rates as well. So so 517 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: not only does this have an impact on our minds, right, 518 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: and the weight and the just the thoughts that we 519 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: carry around with us, but it actually literally affects our 520 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: bodies and our physical health as well. Yeah. Man, that's crazy. 521 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: I feel like that is. If there's not the number 522 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: one reason to get out of debt might not be 523 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 1: the math reason. It might be that you're saving your 524 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: mind in your body from like all this difficulty. I 525 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: don't want else. I don't want to die either, you know, Like, uh, 526 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, the fact that debt has like these far 527 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: reaching impacts on how we deal with life, how we 528 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: go through life, how we feel every single day. Um, 529 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: that's that's almost more important than the interest that you're 530 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: paying to the bank or the company that you're from. Yeah. 531 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 1: So let's get to another a few other reasons why 532 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: it makes so much sense to get rid of debt. 533 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: Why it makes sense to avoid debt. Debt actually quells 534 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: your creativity. If every problem that we have can be 535 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: solved by buying something or just taking on more debt, 536 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: then every problem becomes a nail and debt's the hammer. 537 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: Um And then if you disallow debt having that role 538 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: in your life, it'll force you to think outside the 539 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: box or to learn a new skill. I think sometimes, 540 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: Matt Uh, the ability, the easy nature of being able 541 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: to take on more debt in our society does mean 542 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: that we are not forced to come up with creative solutions. 543 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: You know, we try to talk about creative solutions on 544 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: this show all the time. Whether it's going to a 545 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: tool bank to borrow something as opposed to just buying 546 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: that tool and putting it on a credit card that 547 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: you can't pay for. There's all sorts of ways that 548 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: you're forced to be creative in your financial life when 549 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: you basically disallowed debt as an option. Yeah, there's a 550 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: level of resourcefulness and creativity that we can achieve by 551 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 1: not becoming dependent on consumption in our ability to to 552 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: rack up consumer debt. Right. Also, man, getting out of debt, 553 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: let'slet's let's talk about freedom. Right, Getting out of debt 554 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: can unleashed. I think something inside of us that like 555 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: we didn't even know is there now when we don't 556 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: owe anyone anything, there's a sense of freedom that will 557 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: often like spur us on to pursue either like a 558 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: new venture or maybe you know, start our own business. 559 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: Not everybody is necessarily wired that way, but at least 560 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: one thing is true, and that is that you don't 561 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: have debt holding you back any longer, regardless of what 562 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: it is that you do want to pursue in your life. Yeah. 563 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: I think sometimes the debt can feel like like a 564 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: lead weight around our our feet or like, h you know, 565 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: when you're going to get your X rays done yet 566 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: at the at the dental office, you gotta put that 567 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: lead jacket on over here. It's been about ten years. Okay, yes, 568 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: don't ever go to the dentist. I forget Um, you 569 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: should do that. Don't send me email? Hey, no, actually 570 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: do send it to Matt's specific email addressing. You don't 571 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: mind not to me. I don't want to read those, 572 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: but please criticize him for your t is still look 573 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,479 Speaker 1: good though, buddy. Um. But but yeah, when you go 574 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: into a dental office, Matt and they finally do take 575 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: your X rays, you'll put on this like led jacket 576 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: that goes over the top of you. I do remember that. 577 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: It's it's like walking around with that all the time. 578 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: It can feel like that being in debt. A little 579 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: bit of it is comforting, you know, like they got 580 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: that they've got those weighted blankets. Yeah, my brother in 581 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: law has one of those that you asked for Christmas, 582 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: like several years ago. It's really nice when you're lying down. 583 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: It's different when you're trying to like walk exactly. Dude. 584 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: It makes me think of those folks that have like 585 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: the weighted vests and they're out for a run or 586 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: like hiking up a mountain. It's like, what are you doing? 587 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: You were insane? But I guess they're training. Training. That's 588 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: what you want to do, but it's not what you 589 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: want to do when you're actually running a race. And 590 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: and that's basically what we're talking about now, right, Like 591 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: this is the race of life. This is you know, 592 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: this is our personal finances that we're talking about here. Yeah. Yeah, 593 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: and debt limits our future options because we're weighed down 594 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: by the pain minuts of prior decisions. It's like those 595 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: debts are just like more and more of those X 596 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: ray jackets as a way to jackets like coming down 597 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: top of this and like every year that we continue 598 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: to progress in this way, it's more and more weight 599 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: that's added on to how we move through life. This 600 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: leads to less freedom and less autonomy in our own lives. 601 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: When we're inundated with debt, it's harder to move to 602 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: a new place, and work opportunities can be limited. You 603 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: may even be forced to stay in a job that 604 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: you hate because your debt levels are out of control, 605 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: Like you have to have that job, you have to 606 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: have that paycheck every two weeks or things are gonna 607 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: completely fall apart um. And so I think that is 608 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: another one of the biggest reasons to get out of 609 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,479 Speaker 1: debt is that you do have more control over the 610 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: decisions you you want to make. You have more options 611 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: in greater freedom when you have less debt. Yeah, that's right, man. 612 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: And one other real reason that we want folks to 613 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: get out of debts is because when debt is always 614 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,719 Speaker 1: an option in our lives, it doesn't foster our ability 615 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: to say no right. Self control is an important part 616 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: of personal finance, and when debt is an easy option 617 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: that we're used to taking, we tend to weaken those 618 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: super important self control muscles. As those muscles atrophy, we 619 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: find ourselves open to borrowing more and more, we find 620 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: ourselves over consuming. Uh you know, we're we're saddling our 621 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: future selves with those past decisions. Like you you just 622 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: you were just talking about that. Um, Like we make 623 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: these decisions in the past and we find ourselves paying 624 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: for them like a little bit in the you know, 625 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: in the future. Like it's sometimes it's not that far 626 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: into the future. Right. We just got out the holidays, 627 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: and it made me think of eggnog Christmas cookies. Uh, 628 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: in the moment you eat those or you know, you know, 629 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, eggnog, that sounds really good, but 630 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: what is it? Like two SIPs and you're just like, oh, 631 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: egg bad decision, you know. I feel like that's how 632 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: it is when it comes to debt. In the moment, 633 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 1: it's so easy and it's so tempting and it sounds 634 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: so great, but it doesn't take very long before we 635 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: are regretting those decisions. Yeah, it's funny too. I remember 636 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: in my twenties I would hear people, you know, ten 637 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: fifteen years ahead of me, and they would talk about 638 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: how man I had two beers las signed I don't 639 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: feel very good today, and I was like, I don't 640 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: understand that because when I have two beers, I feel 641 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: great the next day. But the older you get, you 642 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: begin to feel the impact of those decisions more. And yeah, 643 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: so I think true with our finances, right, Like I 644 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: think when you're younger, you have more energy, maybe have 645 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: more wiggle room when it comes to your expenses and 646 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: what you can earn a little more resilience, Yeah, a 647 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,239 Speaker 1: little more resilience exactly, you can kind of make up 648 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: for some of those poor decisions. But as we get older, 649 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: we either don't want to expand that additional energy to 650 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: make up for poor spending decisions, or a lot of 651 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: folks don't have that as an option, right, Yeah, yeah 652 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: for sure. So so really, when it comes down to it, 653 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: there are a lot of reasons to avoid debt. Debt 654 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: is actually much more than just a mathematical problem that 655 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: needs solving. I think we have to think about it 656 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: in those terms. We have to think about it as 657 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: a problem that affects our whole being, that affects our relationship, 658 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: that affects the way we go through our days. And 659 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: if you're mired in debt, you're likely missing out on 660 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: the freedom and the creative opportunities that kicking debt to 661 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: the curb can bring you. So, yeah, we hope that 662 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: this episode has been some some motivation to spur you 663 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: on towards getting after that debt payoff plan this year. Man. 664 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: Actually actually feel like I'm not sure if it was 665 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: just motivation. I feel like we're almost like the ghost 666 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: of Christmas future something coming to Ebene's are Scrooge like, 667 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: this is what debt can do to you? And um, 668 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: I really do. I mean I only thirty days behind 669 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: the curve by Christmas, right, But it feels like it's 670 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: this important message to relay that that that's not something 671 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: to mess around with or play with, that that it 672 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: can have profound effects on your on your life, um 673 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: and on you know, your marriage, on your friendships, it 674 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: really in your health. Yeah, it's far reaching the impacts 675 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: of of taking on too much debtload in your life. Yeah. So, Joel, 676 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, during this episode, we have basically made a 677 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: case why we want you out of debt, but we 678 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: haven't necessarily told you how to do that. But that's 679 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: because we've we've already done that. We've done that in 680 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: recent episodes. We recommend folks to check out a recent 681 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: episode to seven. That's where we talked about the debt 682 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: snowball versus the debt avalanche, which are two different methods 683 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: of paying down debt. And if you find yourself in 684 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: massive amounts of debt and you, I mean you feel 685 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: completely overwhelmed, we would recommend for you to check out 686 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: a nonprofit debt counselor via the NFCC or check out 687 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: Money Management International. That's the company that Thomas Needs she 688 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: works for. We actually interviewed him back in the episode 689 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: one and he was able to provide some some helpful 690 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: advice and thoughts when it comes to the overwhelming amounts 691 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: of debt that we can find ourselves in. So so, yeah, 692 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: this is this episode is all about why you should 693 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: be avoiding it. Check out those two episodes if you're 694 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: looking for some next steps, and we'll make sure to 695 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: link to those episodes within the show notes for this episode, 696 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: no doubt. All right, man, let's take it back to 697 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: the beer. Uh. Today on the show, we drank a 698 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: double I p a called emo j like emoji but 699 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: orange juice. I don't know, it's kind of kind of 700 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: weird connotation going on here from I thought about it 701 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: from the emoji standpoint because it's j It's not g 702 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: that's true, but it still feels like emoji. Um even 703 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: think it's emo j okay, but the hop kind of 704 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: looks like in Emoji. I saw the emo and it maybe. 705 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: I mean, we're kind of referencing our college days. They're 706 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: thinking like dashboard copet totally take me, Yeah, Dashboard confessional days. 707 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, man, this this beer. So these guys are 708 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: out of Charlotte High Spury and if you are anywhere 709 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: near Charlotte, you have got to check out this brewery. 710 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: This was a fantastic beer, Like you said, a double 711 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: I p A hazy New England style I P A 712 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: and like the name suggests, it's like a glass of 713 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: orange juice, super orange, super you know, fruity citrusy and 714 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: had that smooth nature going on, but with a lot 715 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: of hot flavor. Really enjoyed this one. I'm actually really 716 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: excited now that we've got two more High Spury beers 717 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: to enjoy next week. But yeah, what were your thoughts 718 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: on this specific beer? You know, I thought this one 719 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: was interesting, almost had like a tiny bit of like 720 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: corientor flavor going on too. I don't know where that 721 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: was coming from but um. But yeah, so this was 722 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: it was an interesting beer. I mean I always love 723 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: a beer like this. I mean, do we ever get 724 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: tired of the O J style? Um? I vas I 725 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: don't think so. There's another good one from heist Um 726 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: for sure. So all right, Matt, I think that's gonna 727 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: do it for this episode. For our listeners who want 728 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: the show notes for this episode, or you can check 729 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: those out along with a lot of other resources up 730 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: on our website at how to money dot com. Yeah, buddy, 731 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: that's gonna be it. So until next time, Best friends Out, 732 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: Best Friends Out. M M.