Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Gavin Newsom and today we have a
Speaker 1: remarkable episode. We go behind the scenes, we go behind
Speaker 1: the walls. We go in to death row at San
Speaker 1: Quentin Prison. San Quentin Prison one of the most iconic
Speaker 1: prisons anywhere in the world for one notable reason. It
Speaker 1: has the largest death row in the Western Hemisphere. You
Speaker 1: know the names from Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez, the knight Stalker,
Speaker 1: Charles Manson even spent some time at San Quentin. We'll
Speaker 1: go into death row for the first time since death
Speaker 1: row has been shut down. Not the prisoners were released,
Speaker 1: but death Row now is being converted into general prison population.
Speaker 1: The reason we're at San Quentin is because of remarkable
Speaker 1: reforms that are taking shape, focusing on public safety, focusing
Speaker 1: on re entry, focusing on rehabilitation. We'll talk to incarcerated individuals,
Speaker 1: We'll talk to the warden, We'll talk to guards. We'll
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the history of Marshawn, whose
Speaker 1: uncle was a guard in San Quentin Prison. I even run.
Speaker 2: Into an old baseball teammate from Little League in the
Speaker 2: yard at San Quentin. So come in join us behind
Speaker 2: the scenes in this raw, unfiltered and real conversation about
Speaker 2: life at Saint Quentin.
Speaker 3: Man, what's hand in Man? You got Marshaw, Bisma Lynch.
Speaker 1: Doug Hendrickson and Gavin Newsome and you're listening to politickets.
Speaker 4: You're knowing to be you known to be guys. Good
Speaker 4: to see you today.
Speaker 5: We're going into San Quentin to learn more about this
Speaker 5: place and what it's all about, and where.
Speaker 6: They're going with movement and where they're going with the
Speaker 6: programs they have, and just to kind of show everybody
Speaker 6: what we're learning.
Speaker 2: We're in the oldest and probably the most notorious prison
Speaker 2: in the United States of America eighteen fifty two, the
Speaker 2: largest death row in the Western hemisphere, and it's also
Speaker 2: now the most notorious prison for reforms in America.
Speaker 1: With something we call the California model.
Speaker 2: A few years back, we said it course for a
Speaker 2: new strategy and new approach to rehabilitation and also public safety.
Speaker 2: We want to focus on the fact that ninety five percent,
Speaker 2: ninety five percent of the folks that come here are released.
Speaker 2: They don't end up here, they don't die here. Folks
Speaker 2: that cycle through this system, we want them back home
Speaker 2: as better neighbors because they're going to be your neighbors.
Speaker 2: So this is a public safety effort, a public safety
Speaker 2: in issue to make sure people don't come back here.
Speaker 2: And the reality is a recidivism rate, the number of
Speaker 2: people that reoffend is off the charts if you don't
Speaker 2: get programs in prison. So the smartest thing we can do,
Speaker 2: the toughest thing we can do on crime, is get
Speaker 2: programs in prisons like this but at scale, and get
Speaker 2: people hope that on the outside they can turn their
Speaker 2: lives around and at the same time make our community
Speaker 2: strong or more resilient, and say, so, we're gonna have
Speaker 2: a chance to see some of these programs.
Speaker 1: Talk to the prisoners directly.
Speaker 2: Talk to the warden who's.
Speaker 7: A change agent.
Speaker 2: A warden, by the way, who's had real lived experience
Speaker 2: with family members.
Speaker 1: His father was incarcerated.
Speaker 2: Uh knows what he's talking about. One of the most
Speaker 2: exciting in reform oriented wardens in America that happens to
Speaker 2: be here at Saint Quentin.
Speaker 4: And then we're gonna walk through death row.
Speaker 2: We're gonna walk through death row that you name it
Speaker 2: as some of the most notorious people, uh that have
Speaker 2: spent the greater part of their lives have died in
Speaker 2: death row, have a chance to see the old barbaric
Speaker 2: gas chamber, uh and see the side of the last
Speaker 2: lethal injection in California all today.
Speaker 3: Sounds like you got a pretty full uh lineup today.
Speaker 8: Huh And we got a lineup.
Speaker 2: Brother.
Speaker 5: You you ain't rolling with me, Marshaan Levenussen on politicket,
Speaker 5: Come in your way, dude.
Speaker 1: You haven't been on death row.
Speaker 5: No, I've never been in the prison.
Speaker 8: You've never been in the prison.
Speaker 5: No, teckt.
Speaker 8: I'm so excited for you. I'm actually excited for you
Speaker 8: like that.
Speaker 2: That's kind of I'm actually happy and.
Speaker 8: Excited for you.
Speaker 9: I mean that, By the way, you can appreciate every
Speaker 9: developer they want this. Every year during the budget we
Speaker 9: have people with new proposals and how they'll.
Speaker 2: Take care of tearing it down just to give it
Speaker 2: to us for a dollar a year and we'll take
Speaker 2: care of the product. This is the one everyone wants
Speaker 2: because it's I mean, it's bren fucking County. It's the
Speaker 2: whole thing, and you ferry service right up to the
Speaker 2: new development. And it's massive land. I mean, this is
Speaker 2: literally some most valuable land anyone. You right on the
Speaker 2: water man on point yeah, Richmond, Yeah, you appreciate.
Speaker 8: It, but calified that goddamn text ship.
Speaker 4: Look young to get Warton.
Speaker 10: I gave you an opportunity so crazy.
Speaker 5: This is no shawshake redemption with the shoot and tie
Speaker 5: on the and the this is okay, but.
Speaker 1: It's by the way, eighteen what is eighteen fifty two?
Speaker 2: It's the oldest prison that was when it was built,
Speaker 2: was just designed to deal with the entire incarcerated population
Speaker 2: for California, and then we went on to build another.
Speaker 5: Well, so was this built before Alcatraz eighteen two?
Speaker 2: How was Alcatraz now alcoltizer on much later?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 10: State state prison, state prison, as the boss said, Now
Speaker 10: we're kind of the lead lead marking this California model.
Speaker 10: So I think first time here, first time, Oh, very exciting.
Speaker 10: First time is the best time because I think we
Speaker 10: get to change the perception of how people see some
Speaker 10: of our prisons in California.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but doug Old, this is the main place from
Speaker 2: a deferred maintenance perspective, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Struggles.
Speaker 10: We wanted to welcome the right way.
Speaker 4: I welcome to St. Quentin.
Speaker 8: All feel comfortable. I'm very uncomfortable. That's too funny. Get
Speaker 8: in here, man.
Speaker 5: Funny how many inmates here currently?
Speaker 2: Our account's about thirty four hundred thirty four hundred. I've
Speaker 2: been hanging out with this guy for years now, and
Speaker 2: every time.
Speaker 8: I'm there he is. Man. I've been trying to get
Speaker 8: him a son, some ship over everything above.
Speaker 2: You know, they's just everything by the book, everything by
Speaker 2: the man.
Speaker 3: He poked about a book, Yes, by the book. This
Speaker 3: ain't a boy.
Speaker 8: A book's got it, you know what for?
Speaker 3: Just know their whole life trying to stay out of
Speaker 3: this motherfucker, and you want to come in the.
Speaker 8: Mother got maybe back. Showed me how fucked up in them?
Speaker 8: You got to where everybody want to come out of it.
Speaker 9: I had a free Sunday last Sunday and was hanging
Speaker 9: out here.
Speaker 4: Mar Sean checked this out.
Speaker 8: You gotta come in here, man?
Speaker 1: Is this you have it?
Speaker 8: Opened?
Speaker 4: Very got up for the dungeons.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 4: I can't get it.
Speaker 2: By the time mar Sean has to check us out,
Speaker 2: got to check us out.
Speaker 10: This kind of sounderation of where we're going.
Speaker 4: So this this is the dungeon.
Speaker 8: This is what it used to look like.
Speaker 10: The stuff people in here, No toilets.
Speaker 4: Just walls.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why you think I would want to see it
Speaker 3: because you.
Speaker 2: Didn't know that it's just to see it, man, Marshaan.
Speaker 3: Man, I got all they got to get you a
Speaker 3: real dumb I don't need.
Speaker 8: No dose nine is worth gonna look at me.
Speaker 3: You think about people in there shipping piss, understand can
Speaker 3: get up. I'm just saying that ain't exciting to me.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 2: Oh, but it's important to understand the past so we
Speaker 2: don't repeat the mistakes of the past.
Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll go into the San Quentin
Speaker 1: yard where folks are getting a little bit of exercise
Speaker 1: and taking a little time uh for themselves, including one
Speaker 1: incarcerated individual, Reginald Thorpe, who is from Oakland, California, and
Speaker 1: has been serving time for a murder conviction. He's been
Speaker 1: incarcerated now some twenty six years. It's a conversation. I
Speaker 1: never thought we'd have a raw and unfiltered way that
Speaker 1: takes some twists in turns that make it a fascinating
Speaker 1: look inside the prison at San Quentin.
Speaker 7: Mm hmm, good, what's up man? Good to be back.
Speaker 7: I told you I don't working. I'm not walking away
Speaker 7: a lot of work.
Speaker 8: How you doing.
Speaker 4: I'll be great. What's happening?
Speaker 8: We got a chase?
Speaker 6: Oh god, nobody break the lines happen?
Speaker 4: I had what's up with the.
Speaker 8: East? Broke up?
Speaker 3: Dealing honey selling honey.
Speaker 4: Stand right now though? How Haggenberger is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they just was mom and they just hit the
Speaker 3: gas station right there by the way.
Speaker 8: Where was that yesterday?
Speaker 9: At the Shell gas station in Hagenberger?
Speaker 4: Bro, you was the Shell.
Speaker 8: I spend more time in opening than you do. My
Speaker 8: You're just coming through there and doing a little pop
Speaker 8: up camera. I wish I was the fourth time I've
Speaker 8: been to that damn Shell.
Speaker 3: That's what we raised, going and raised. But don't trip
Speaker 3: they You know why you can do that because they've
Speaker 3: seen you with me, so they.
Speaker 4: Like that. Though.
Speaker 6: Bro, When I was a kid, I used to run
Speaker 6: around in that area. I used to when they had
Speaker 6: the castle and the Malibu over there.
Speaker 4: It wasn't nowhere. When I'm old school, all that parking
Speaker 4: lot and stuff, None.
Speaker 8: Of that was a lot. Man.
Speaker 6: I used to break into the coliseum to feed myself
Speaker 6: during the eighth corn Dogs Hot Dogs Ship.
Speaker 3: And then they take all the teams out of town
Speaker 3: and then expect people to go to work.
Speaker 6: We still got we got the we know you know,
Speaker 6: we know how to we know how to put the
Speaker 6: mix on.
Speaker 8: Everything's ship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, those stuff mag it is.
Speaker 8: Yeah, what's your name name?
Speaker 3: Broch know yeah, yeah, respect Berger.
Speaker 8: What you was doing. We've done a lot on politics.
Speaker 1: It's not even politics.
Speaker 8: I'm not even kidding by the way.
Speaker 2: We've literally I'm after reading it's the most dangerous you
Speaker 2: don't know this, Doug, the most dangerous gas station in
Speaker 2: the United States of America.
Speaker 8: I did read this.
Speaker 1: It's a shell station.
Speaker 2: It's the last station before you go in and return
Speaker 2: your rental car. And they were they, I mean, fifteen
Speaker 2: to twenty robberies a day. And when I read about
Speaker 2: this kid who had a backpack on and they dragged
Speaker 2: the kid with the backpack on, this eight year old kid,
Speaker 2: and pulled them out to rip the backpack on, that's when.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we sat the whole courtdor I mean the Hilton.
Speaker 5: The Hilton's gone now the Oakland Hilton we lost.
Speaker 4: How did he get like that? Though?
Speaker 6: That's a go back years though that didn't just happen
Speaker 6: over night. That's the system, the way that things was
Speaker 6: designed over here, Like it's not enough money in Oakland
Speaker 6: no more. They done all the people the way that
Speaker 6: they get the property tax over there, they getting that
Speaker 6: money and they not reinvestigated that pushed me out.
Speaker 4: They not They not doing that no more.
Speaker 6: I remember when I when I was a kid, I
Speaker 6: used to be able to go to the recreation center.
Speaker 6: I didn't even have to worry about getting in trouble
Speaker 6: or being in the streets. But now there's not no
Speaker 6: resources there no more. They taking the money and they
Speaker 6: holding on to it instead of putting it back in there.
Speaker 6: It's like they want to put more money in the
Speaker 6: law enforcement and lacking people up.
Speaker 4: Rather than trying to find solutions to the problems. That's
Speaker 4: really at the root of that stuff.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of people out there home being storm
Speaker 6: and then it's nothing for them to do.
Speaker 8: Well, we'll try that minutes.
Speaker 1: Right now, it's gotten so bad that we do have
Speaker 1: to We got to put a lid on how bad
Speaker 1: it's gotten. But when none of us have forgotten the
Speaker 1: original centers, that relates for lack of investment, and so
Speaker 1: that's happening in parallel at unprecedented levels as well. To
Speaker 1: reinvest back in the community.
Speaker 6: One thing I know about openly as a child, openly
Speaker 6: took care of me when my parents was using drugs
Speaker 6: and stuff. When I went out in the streets, openly
Speaker 6: took care of me. That's why I'm still right here
Speaker 6: today because the city of Openly itself took care of
Speaker 6: me despite all the bad stuff that was happening in
Speaker 6: New York City. Openly took care of me when my.
Speaker 4: Parents couldn't take care of me. Really, and we got
Speaker 4: a spirit out there.
Speaker 6: That's why Steph and Draymond and Clay when they went
Speaker 6: to San Francisco, they didn't They wasn't feeling that because
Speaker 6: they didn't have no say in that.
Speaker 4: They wanted to stay in the town. There's like that.
Speaker 6: Ain't my that ain't my choice. But they wanted they
Speaker 6: loved the town. They wanted to stay out there. We
Speaker 6: got a culture out here. We got a culture in
Speaker 6: that spirity. Opening Acorna never died. No matter what they do,
Speaker 6: no matter how many people they locked up, how many
Speaker 6: police they put on the streets.
Speaker 4: Always that's what it is. That's what it is.
Speaker 3: Look because you just explained some ship to him, like
Speaker 3: will chopping it up. We kicked game because we politic
Speaker 3: for our little uh for our podcast and hell of Ship,
Speaker 3: I stopped politics.
Speaker 8: But I'm saying, but.
Speaker 3: What you just did that you just you feel me
Speaker 3: the ism that you just gave, like that's the politi
Speaker 3: and the feeling though away from his politics, but you
Speaker 3: being able to explain something like that, you feel me
Speaker 3: that shit is big. You feel me because motherfucking don't
Speaker 3: hear it on that type of level. And then when
Speaker 3: you hear it coming straight directly from you rather than
Speaker 3: you looking at some numbers, all we got it because
Speaker 3: it don't come like that. It come all the budget
Speaker 3: this and we gotta do this and all the smart
Speaker 3: ass all that other ship.
Speaker 4: When you're hungry, that's.
Speaker 8: What I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But when you able to break it down to him
Speaker 3: like that and tell them straight up, because the way
Speaker 3: that you know, they go see it on that other level,
Speaker 3: that's that's all they looking at.
Speaker 8: Do these numbers matter?
Speaker 3: So when you talk about they taking money out of
Speaker 3: the community and shit, they looking at Okay, well last
Speaker 3: time we put in X, Y and Z for this project,
Speaker 3: and then they looking at the project, what did that
Speaker 3: project do? How much money did that project uh bring
Speaker 3: in for us like Okay, well that didn't do right,
Speaker 3: So fuck, were gonna take the money that we was
Speaker 3: getting for this and we're gonna move it over here.
Speaker 3: Now they're just moving shit around just to figure out
Speaker 3: and try to see what's gonna work, what's gonna stick.
Speaker 8: And one at the end of the day went.
Speaker 6: About that one youngster who life They say that not
Speaker 6: talking about that stopped from going in that story robbing
Speaker 6: that that convenience store on uh On Haggenburger are coming
Speaker 6: up in near hell of deep.
Speaker 4: But that's how that's how you feel that they talk
Speaker 4: about people going in there robbing and doing all this stuff.
Speaker 6: Talk about that one you that didn't decide to go
Speaker 6: on that mission and going a different direction.
Speaker 4: They don't talk about that that.
Speaker 3: One young that one youngster ended up turning into that
Speaker 3: youngster like me. And like you said, you from the deep,
Speaker 3: you feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 8: From the north.
Speaker 3: I lived on fifty fifth Field, so when I had
Speaker 3: to go to school, I had to go all the
Speaker 3: way through the east, all the way back to the
Speaker 3: North and then to come back home.
Speaker 8: So I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 4: The hotels in the hotels and fifty five.
Speaker 8: I don't know, been in there getting active.
Speaker 4: A whole lot of time.
Speaker 8: And I'm not like not like this.
Speaker 4: He used to when I was when I was still
Speaker 4: doing my stuff. He used to be running around on
Speaker 4: the level four yard chase around.
Speaker 7: God Bro.
Speaker 6: Like you know, I'm happy that we got a warding
Speaker 6: like this, that know where people like myself came from.
Speaker 4: Like he was on the line when I was on
Speaker 4: the line actively doing hell of ship Bro.
Speaker 6: He seen me grow up in CSB sacked and for
Speaker 6: him to see me then up and up now to
Speaker 6: who I am.
Speaker 4: It speaks value we both put all taken.
Speaker 8: Look what the you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: But what's what's so interesting about this conversation and mirrors?
Speaker 2: But literally we were having exactly this conversation last week.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, you give me ship for going
Speaker 2: back for the fourth time to this that the place
Speaker 2: without any cameras, each time, without any camera to make
Speaker 2: the point, I'm going to keep coming back over and
Speaker 2: over and over again, and I've been doing that.
Speaker 1: Look, not the mayor of Oakland.
Speaker 2: There's fourn in seventy six cities in California, but it's
Speaker 2: out of control.
Speaker 1: There, and so we stepped up. We stepped up the
Speaker 1: last six nine months.
Speaker 2: But I will say it, but it's been out of control.
Speaker 8: I get it.
Speaker 4: But it takes out of control in the eighties, start
Speaker 4: bringing cocaine.
Speaker 9: In this, I get it.
Speaker 8: I get it.
Speaker 2: You can't I know, I can't make up for all
Speaker 2: the macro, all the history. But I know I understand.
Speaker 4: But what things really started to spend in the last few.
Speaker 1: Years in particular, and so we have significantly stepped up
Speaker 1: our investments.
Speaker 2: But the point you're making is a difficult point. Right
Speaker 2: at the same time we should be I mean, I
Speaker 2: get it, that sort of binary, this notion that okay,
Speaker 2: he's just putting.
Speaker 1: More cops on the street. That's bullshit, locking people up.
Speaker 2: That's not going to solve the problem versus addressing all
Speaker 2: those systemic issues.
Speaker 4: So for us, it's both, and it's both.
Speaker 2: And but I got to do I've got to put
Speaker 2: a lid on it because it's so bad now that
Speaker 2: people people are leavish and droves, businesses, they're leaving, and
Speaker 2: it's just gotten to a point where no.
Speaker 8: One is comfort.
Speaker 2: Well, just we've got we've been saturating with the HP
Speaker 2: and others supporting local law enforcement. They're wildly understaff. They're
Speaker 2: not doing any pursuits, they're not making it. We're not
Speaker 2: prosecuting even people that are being arrested. And you've got folks.
Speaker 2: I mean, we had I had a member of my
Speaker 2: staff listeners, a member of my staff with her daughter
Speaker 2: and a gun was put to the kid's head in
Speaker 2: the stroller to take the diapers. I mean, at what
Speaker 2: point do I say, Okay, well, just that's the kind
Speaker 2: of stuff like That's that's where you draw the line
Speaker 2: and there's got to be some accountability. So it's it's again,
Speaker 2: I don't dismiss anything you're saying, quite the contract. I'm
Speaker 2: actually praising what you're saying. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to express hopefully an understanding that we also
Speaker 2: need to deal with the lawlessness at the moment and
Speaker 2: put a lid on it, but without overcompensating going back
Speaker 2: to the old days of overincarceration.
Speaker 4: And that's why we're here, man, that's the whole point.
Speaker 4: We used to do with housing authority, used to pull
Speaker 4: and then come back. That's all.
Speaker 6: That's all the other to the Task Force Oakley Police
Speaker 6: Department in Alameda County sheriffs or police. We will run
Speaker 6: get away as soon as you as soon as you leave,
Speaker 6: we come back out and do what he was doing.
Speaker 6: So it's it's like, Okay, I'm understand that you're trying
Speaker 6: to just put this band aid on there, but really
Speaker 6: that they ain't need triage. That need it needs some
Speaker 6: real like somebody. And then a lot of the carns
Speaker 6: that's happening in that area ain't even people from open
Speaker 6: that's none. With the stuff that I saw, the cars
Speaker 6: that I'll be saying, I'm old school.
Speaker 4: Some of the people that got the ship beat out.
Speaker 8: Of them, Bro, why did you bringing heat conversation?
Speaker 4: Yeah, bro, you're about to get after after everything, and man,
Speaker 4: we got this, so he don't even worry too.
Speaker 2: That's we're also trying to address one hundred percent, right.
Speaker 4: But the US, the people that was enforcing that, they
Speaker 4: locked up.
Speaker 8: They locked up right here.
Speaker 4: Some year.
Speaker 6: I hear the people that was enforcing that they've been
Speaker 6: in prison for the last twenty twenty five years.
Speaker 8: Well that's I mean, that's good.
Speaker 2: That brings us long winnedly to the actual why we're here,
Speaker 2: which is part of this rehabilitation we're doing here the
Speaker 2: new calib arder model, trying to scale this stuff. You'll
Speaker 2: see it physically when that wall comes down. And the
Speaker 2: work we're doing, and I don't know if you know,
Speaker 2: the work I've been doing for decades now on reforming
Speaker 2: the damn system and investing in those alternative pathways.
Speaker 4: So we address the sub process.
Speaker 8: Who from that who who from the system?
Speaker 3: That's that you're working with in order for it be
Speaker 3: another lapse, because it's like every time it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we're trying to go and you know, rework the system
Speaker 3: and change, But do y'all bring people that then come
Speaker 3: from that ship who actually like no.
Speaker 8: Change?
Speaker 3: This is where this is why we continue to keep
Speaker 3: running into that same when we get.
Speaker 1: Here, what's what's this warden doing here?
Speaker 8: Appoints the wardens. We're gonna figure it out. Don't find
Speaker 8: these guys.
Speaker 10: Their ideas come like we build us together, right, it's
Speaker 10: a community. So when we get that input, we take
Speaker 10: their ideas and invest so when they see something done,
Speaker 10: we work together. That's one thing Stas in the population,
Speaker 10: we got more similarities and differences.
Speaker 4: We all we all work here together.
Speaker 3: So then how can y'all get that together and a
Speaker 3: place like this, But then out in the free world
Speaker 3: is running regular.
Speaker 8: There's more structure in places like this. I get it
Speaker 8: than it is actually yet you feel me though at
Speaker 8: the house.
Speaker 3: And then it just come to a point where when
Speaker 3: from my my understanding, my respect, when I see somebody
Speaker 3: come out, uh, come home from doing like fifteen or something,
Speaker 3: when they get back into the you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: the new world, they out of touch with everything.
Speaker 8: You feel what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: And now because the individuals who've been outside, these little
Speaker 3: young motherfuckers, they on.
Speaker 8: Some other ship.
Speaker 3: So when somebody come home and they trying to enforce
Speaker 3: what was you know, I mean, how we even establish
Speaker 3: this foundation for our neighborhood or what's going on. Ain't
Speaker 3: nobody trying to hear that shit anyway. So it's always
Speaker 3: a disconnect. But at the end of the day, the
Speaker 3: same system in which we still have and that is
Speaker 3: still rocking right now, is the same one that we
Speaker 3: just continue to just go around and circles with.
Speaker 8: Now, the thing that we ain't talking about is everybody
Speaker 8: know that this shit is a big business.
Speaker 3: So I mean, why the fuck if I'm getting billions,
Speaker 3: why the fuck would I want to go change the
Speaker 3: system that's gonna continue to keep feeding my pockets.
Speaker 8: Now you get individuals who.
Speaker 3: Got a respectful mind and a decent heart, like yourself,
Speaker 3: and you come in here and you're like, damn, I
Speaker 3: want to change, and then it's gonna come to a
Speaker 3: point where you're gonna be like, well, fuck, I donet
Speaker 3: hit my ceiling with these individuals.
Speaker 8: They not letting me get no, because if we do that,
Speaker 8: it's gonna create real change.
Speaker 3: But that real change is gonna hurt somebody, real change
Speaker 3: when it comes to the higher repts and where all
Speaker 3: his money is going and how all this shit is
Speaker 3: funneled around though, because we all had look, we all
Speaker 3: like he say something to it, like you know what,
Speaker 3: motherfuckers always talk about what they're doing, how they need
Speaker 3: to do this, and how they need to do that,
Speaker 3: and it's like, motherfucker, I would love to see them.
Speaker 8: You give them this position and let's see what they'll do.
Speaker 8: Thank you. But it's not that shit hard though. But man.
Speaker 6: Gatherings been in the position since he was the mere
Speaker 6: San Francisco, and I don't know what he was doing
Speaker 6: before that. He was already gathering his support network like
Speaker 6: he he gathering, right.
Speaker 4: But he have people that support him there, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 6: Be able to where he could rely on them to
Speaker 6: take care of shit that he can't see or do
Speaker 6: because he got other things.
Speaker 4: And by him having that support network, it allows him
Speaker 4: to elevate and elevate for like twenty twenty eight. Right,
Speaker 4: he's still.
Speaker 6: Dealing with what we got going on in California, like
Speaker 6: on a higher level. That's gonna that's gonna paying itself out.
Speaker 6: Hopefully we don't get some body that that's a dictator.
Speaker 8: And but he gonna for me in the mix.
Speaker 4: You run the mayor of Oakland's bitching about what I'm doing.
Speaker 8: You should be.
Speaker 4: Running for what he said, and and and fab is
Speaker 4: your vice mayor.
Speaker 3: Man, don't go turn this Ben, tell me in the
Speaker 3: office you talking about you coming to Oakland four.
Speaker 4: Time just in the last look your last guy awake,
Speaker 4: Look time on you man go down.
Speaker 3: To city hall telling hey, look, hey, you see I
Speaker 3: got my big ass bag outside.
Speaker 8: Tell you I got that we're finla take my big
Speaker 8: ass bag and get the bags.
Speaker 6: And I'm sad about Oakland though, bro, Like I'm really
Speaker 6: like every time I watched the news.
Speaker 4: My heart to just go out to my city. Bro
Speaker 4: Open took care of me as a child. I went
Speaker 4: to MacArthur.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I went to all down near every elementary school in
Speaker 6: East Oakley because my parents when they was using drugs,
Speaker 6: they drug and.
Speaker 4: So all through Oakland. So I went to all the schools.
Speaker 5: Well, look at history of Black Panthers, Bill Russell, Yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean, Ricky Henderson, everybody, I mean every I mean
Speaker 5: it was unbelievable terms the history of Oakland.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why Draymond played, and and Steph wanted to
Speaker 4: stay right.
Speaker 6: They then when they started they little legacy with the
Speaker 6: Golden State Warriors.
Speaker 4: That energy that we had and developed into town, that
Speaker 4: was with him. That's what got we just talked to Draymond.
Speaker 5: Draymond said that when he came to Oakland, he fell
Speaker 5: home because reminded him of Detroit.
Speaker 6: He was he was one decision away from not being
Speaker 6: in your like me. Yep, he was one choice away.
Speaker 6: I just I made the wrong choice.
Speaker 4: Draymond made the right choice and he went and played
Speaker 4: college from Mischigan State.
Speaker 5: Would you play?
Speaker 4: I didn't play anything. I was in the streets. I
Speaker 4: didn't even I was trying to find me something.
Speaker 5: What would you would you play?
Speaker 4: I probably I wouldn't have paid no sports. Okay, Now
Speaker 4: I'm more.
Speaker 8: I was.
Speaker 4: Since I've been incarcer ready to rehabilitation. I found that
Speaker 4: I got a serious passion for mathematics.
Speaker 8: I love math.
Speaker 6: I love numbers because numbers don't lie how long you've
Speaker 6: been in your work.
Speaker 4: I didn't even at this institute for five years?
Speaker 5: What about overall?
Speaker 4: Twenty six years?
Speaker 5: Twenty se okay, and when you're getting out, I.
Speaker 4: Don't have no idea, no idea.
Speaker 8: Okay.
Speaker 6: I should have been going in March, but they said
Speaker 6: because some confidential information that was putting my seafoul, the
Speaker 6: board determined that I didn't follow the parole boards of recommendations,
Speaker 6: and they told me, I gotta wait until twenty twenty.
Speaker 5: Is it heard to battle through daily not knowing there's
Speaker 5: no end date?
Speaker 1: And is your family this your family?
Speaker 5: Here? Is your family?
Speaker 6: Come visit The reason why it's not hard because it's
Speaker 6: consequences for choices. And I made a decision to take
Speaker 6: somebody life, And in California, the consequence for taking somebody
Speaker 6: life and getting found guilty of murder is spending the
Speaker 6: rest of your life in prison, So I'm not I
Speaker 6: regret what I did, and I understand that it's a
Speaker 6: possibility I could die in here because I took somebody's life,
Speaker 6: so I.
Speaker 4: Deal with that in a way according to the law.
Speaker 4: But however, I am optimistic. I believe that I made
Speaker 4: the change and the transformation to go back and be
Speaker 4: a productive member mean us what it's all about.
Speaker 5: And I appreciate you getting involved in mathematics and doing that, man,
Speaker 5: because being in there, no no and day, but you
Speaker 5: doing what you're doing.
Speaker 8: It's big.
Speaker 4: A lot of these young people that don't have no
Speaker 4: education that's trying to.
Speaker 6: Get they GEDs, and even the ones that's in college,
Speaker 6: they struggle with math.
Speaker 4: The math, it seemed like it's the most difficult subject.
Speaker 6: And through my rehabilitation, I found that I was passionate
Speaker 6: about doing math when I was young men and.
Speaker 4: I said, you know what, REGI, I said, what did
Speaker 4: you like.
Speaker 6: To do before you start committing crimes, before you start
Speaker 6: being bad? I realized I like doing math, and I
Speaker 6: was like, you know what, I'm about to hone back
Speaker 6: in on that, and I started going to college.
Speaker 4: I've made it all the way to calculus.
Speaker 6: Too, there's been some times where I've been at the
Speaker 6: only African American that institutions.
Speaker 4: That was taking uh oculus.
Speaker 5: And actually, so that's just one of the are you
Speaker 5: mentioned some of these young kids the same plan.
Speaker 6: Math whenever they need help, I'm available, okay, and people
Speaker 6: tell them like, hey man, he pretty good with math.
Speaker 4: If you need some help. I'm hoping to help anybody
Speaker 4: with man. I love math.
Speaker 1: It's good, but it's taking advantage of the programming.
Speaker 8: And I'll tell you what I mean.
Speaker 1: Just in back to Marshawn joining me a little bit.
Speaker 2: Uh, as the guy who ultimately decides whatever the pro
Speaker 2: board does doesn't matter unless the governor signs off on it.
Speaker 2: All that programming, you have no idea how determined of
Speaker 2: that is and how critical that is. And you stack
Speaker 2: that stuff up because there's so many folks that are wabblers.
Speaker 1: I'll send back they call us en banc or we'll
Speaker 1: just reject if you.
Speaker 2: Don't see that programming in there, and you get medium
Speaker 2: to high risk. Uh you know, I mean those are
Speaker 2: the folks that are being sent back. So what you're
Speaker 2: doing is profoundly consequential in terms of stacking Uh. That
Speaker 2: kind of court for yourself long term, and then you
Speaker 2: just got to get through that first.
Speaker 3: Hurdle with the name do come across the board. You
Speaker 3: feel me, you got you got a resume.
Speaker 6: Did. I needed to do some healing up here, like
Speaker 6: I was really hurt. Like I went through a lot
Speaker 6: of trauma growing up and opened myself. I went through
Speaker 6: right and in order for me to change and transform, Bro,
Speaker 6: I had to heal myself.
Speaker 4: And through these self help groups and having the support networking.
Speaker 6: Here, Bro, they help you heal, because if you don't
Speaker 6: heal yourself, BRO, you ain't gonna be No, you can't
Speaker 6: help nobody.
Speaker 4: You can't help nobody.
Speaker 3: But it's crazy that you even say that, because the
Speaker 3: last time we just chopped it up with a ship
Speaker 3: talk about Draymond. We just chopped it up with him,
Speaker 3: and Doug was talking about when he went UH and
Speaker 3: tried what's that ship called.
Speaker 8: Therapy therapy.
Speaker 3: He went through therapy for the first time, and like
Speaker 3: you feel me, he it was shit going on that
Speaker 3: he didn't even know, you know, that was happening with him,
Speaker 3: And a lot of it is that trauma that you
Speaker 3: you you you gather while you were UH, while you
Speaker 3: are youngster though, so by even you saying that, because
Speaker 3: we were just talking about it on the way over
Speaker 3: here about the uh about like you know, when people
Speaker 3: come in to prison, coming to jail, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, supposed to be an opportunity for you to
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, uh, rehability, rehabilitate yourself.
Speaker 8: Right. But I'm like, man, at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: what the fuck y'all? Like, what really be going on?
Speaker 3: Like how much help do motherfuckers really get? Like if
Speaker 3: it is like some shit that is needed, how do
Speaker 3: you get that? You feel me, how do you get
Speaker 3: that in here? For when if motherfucker do get a
Speaker 3: date or be able to go ahead to stack the
Speaker 3: support that you talking about in order for when you
Speaker 3: go to the parole board, motherfucker look at that and
Speaker 3: it's you ain't just looking at a sheet of Oh well,
Speaker 3: this motherfucker was in here for murder, Aron Robberds all
Speaker 3: the shit.
Speaker 8: But this is what the and this is the steps
Speaker 8: that this individual.
Speaker 3: Took in order to rehabilitate itself in order to get
Speaker 3: up out of here. Yeah, but it just look I
Speaker 3: don't know, to me, it just seemed like a hunup,
Speaker 3: like like I'll tell you, you know, i'd come in here,
Speaker 3: visit my pops and ship like you know when you
Speaker 3: talk about all right, we're gonna go in here, like nah,
Speaker 3: I kind of don't, like, you know, I understand I'm
Speaker 3: trying not to go into jail and you trying to
Speaker 3: go in the motherfucker just sit down and chop it
Speaker 3: up like fuck. But I get it, and I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's really good, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: especially for myself to see this, but then you know
Speaker 3: what I mean for you, you know, we come around
Speaker 3: and see what's going on.
Speaker 8: And ship like.
Speaker 3: It's some good ship that you feel me though, that
Speaker 3: you possibly can do. I just hope that you take
Speaker 3: the information that you know that they're given and you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, come up with something better. I'm
Speaker 3: talking about overall, like not just here, but whole system.
Speaker 8: And you, the motherfucking president, why you just changed it right?
Speaker 8: The ship up.
Speaker 2: I wish we could just snap our fingers war, but no, no,
Speaker 2: but the whole idea of San Quentin's become the model
Speaker 2: rehabilitation president in the United States of America, and then
Speaker 2: we spread it throughout the rest of the system. So
Speaker 2: everything that happens behind that wall will determine that.
Speaker 8: No, bullshit, that's what it is.
Speaker 2: Wow. Literally, it's almost verbato the ship you were saying
Speaker 2: about Opha.
Speaker 8: It's so interesting to think about it.
Speaker 3: He hasn't been outside, but he feels it nonetheless. But
Speaker 3: I'm saying it's the same shit. Yeah, yeah, See I
Speaker 3: was going in the eighties. He was running around in
Speaker 3: the eighties. But the fact that the same shit was
Speaker 3: going deep, that's what I'm saying. God, that system shit. No,
Speaker 3: I got to get that system and whatever it was
Speaker 3: designed to do. The keepers fucking shitty and locked up
Speaker 3: in places like this, They designed a hell of a system.
Speaker 3: Because think about it for twenty years, it's still the
Speaker 3: same shit.
Speaker 2: I want to get into that conversation because I can
Speaker 2: give you chapter and verse on that deeper. You do
Speaker 2: not understand how spot on you are about that. I met,
Speaker 2: I bet I would give you some.
Speaker 8: Prequel, and I don't think it's crazy. One system though,