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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.

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Speaker 2: All Right, So we haven't been able to really recap

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Speaker 2: Thanksgiving ish. We we did a Thanksgiving episode in Michigan

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Speaker 2: when we were traveling, but I feel like we really

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Speaker 2: can't debrief it when we're in the house of the

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Speaker 2: person that we want to debrief. No, definitely not that

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Speaker 2: makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Why I mean, you can be rude? What's I means

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Speaker 3: you can be rude?

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Speaker 2: What do you mean?

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Speaker 3: I'm joking?

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Speaker 4: You definitely can't debrief Thanksgiving in the house of your parents.

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Speaker 2: Would you like to debrief anything from that time?

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Speaker 3: I have a harrowing memory in my mind.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.

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Speaker 3: You know exactly what it is. Now.

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Speaker 4: Your dad's really your dad's great, right, and every morning

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Speaker 4: he made me coffee, and he made me different types

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Speaker 4: of coffee.

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Speaker 2: But with my dad, though, will just say this, you

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Speaker 2: just ask for a plane coffee, but my dad cannot

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Speaker 2: do He doesn't.

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Speaker 3: That does what he wants to give you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, he doesn't it if Dad, I just want Dad,

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Speaker 2: I just want a plane coffee. And then it's like

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Speaker 2: he just wants a plane coffee. Stop giving him. Bailey's

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Speaker 2: in the coffee.

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Speaker 3: That was fine.

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Speaker 2: You don't drink Bailey's.

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Speaker 3: I don't drink any sort of liqueurs.

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Speaker 2: Or But I'm like, why does he feel like he

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Speaker 2: has I'm like, just give him the plane coffee that

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Speaker 2: he requested.

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Speaker 4: But it tries to be it tries to be accommedy

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Speaker 4: and the respectable, which is which is.

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Speaker 3: Great, but.

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Speaker 2: Noise piss out of me when not the not the hospital,

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Speaker 2: hospitiality whatever part. But it's the part where it's I'm

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Speaker 2: asking you what, You're asking me what I want and

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Speaker 2: then you're not giving me what I want. Like that

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Speaker 2: part I don't understand.

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Speaker 4: I can see what he's coming from because he obviously

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Speaker 4: likes it, but that's not what I like.

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Speaker 3: But he wants me to like he wants me to

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Speaker 3: try it.

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Speaker 4: No. But this the straw that broke the Scottish camel's

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Speaker 4: back was when the both of us were sat at

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Speaker 4: the table and I've got my coffee. He's comes to

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Speaker 4: the table with his coffee. I think you were upstairs. No,

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Speaker 4: you were there.

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Speaker 2: Actually I was there. I witnessed it. I sat there

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, is he and this is this is

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Speaker 2: my thought process, Is he actually doing that? And then

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Speaker 2: I looked at you, and the look you gave my

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Speaker 2: father was hilarious.

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Speaker 5: Okay, to clear this up, he stirred, stirred, stirred his

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Speaker 5: coffee with a cheese string, animalistic and not acceptable.

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Speaker 3: Well, we know, in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 2: We know you don't love.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Two.

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Speaker 4: On top of that, it was one of those moments

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Speaker 4: where it's like I'm going to slam the table and

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Speaker 4: say this is unacceptable.

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Speaker 3: I can't even remember how I dealt with it.

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Speaker 2: You said, are you stirring cheese?

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Speaker 4: Are you actually stirring a coffee with a cheese stick

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Speaker 4: and then eating the cheese stick? And he said yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and then he talked with his mouthful of cheese and coffee.

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Speaker 3: When are we leaving? How many days a week?

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Speaker 2: We left early?

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Speaker 4: No, we did, but not because of that, because Jesson

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Speaker 4: wasn't feeling well and we decided it was better to

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Speaker 4: fly on a day that it was snowing in one day,

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Speaker 4: is that it reached the above zero degrees?

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Speaker 3: Maybe m m. But it was good. Your friends are.

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Speaker 4: It was good to see everyone, your grandparents and your

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Speaker 4: parents and and your mates. Your mates are brilliant, and

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Speaker 4: the husbands are are great. That's so funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have great friends that I've had since middle school.

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Speaker 2: Some have a few of them have been since high school,

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Speaker 2: but the core have been since middle school, and it's

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Speaker 2: always great to see them. It's really fun. I think

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Speaker 2: I just I have our My dad and I have

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Speaker 2: had such a weird relationship for so many years because

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Speaker 2: I disliked him for so many years. And now that

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Speaker 2: we have a better relationship, and you know, I've staying

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Speaker 2: at his house and I love his new wife and

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Speaker 2: things are great. It's just I have that my dad

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Speaker 2: just can't sit in silence, and I have a really

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Speaker 2: hard time with people that want to fill silence with

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Speaker 2: just small talk.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't see as a lot. So he's trying to

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Speaker 4: extract that. He's trying to get to know, like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: what I've been up doing.

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Speaker 2: But do you know what I love about my mom's

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Speaker 2: side of the family is that they don't ask me

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Speaker 2: once what movie I'm about to do, what show I'm

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Speaker 2: about to do. They asked me nothing, And I love that.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about work. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to talk about my childhood friend from sixth grade that

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Speaker 2: he asked about constantly that I'm no longer friends with

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Speaker 2: or you know what I mean, Like the house, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Dad, I ha's sixth grade. Like it's

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Speaker 2: like he's stuck in this like time warp of when

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Speaker 2: he left the house almost and it's like I I

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Speaker 2: have somewhat of you know I again, I love my dad.

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Speaker 2: Now we're great, but there is this I feel like

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Speaker 2: he's trying to make up for lost time, and so

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Speaker 2: I try to have patience with that. But at the

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Speaker 2: same time, I cannot stand when someone just makes small

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Speaker 2: talk for small talk and can't sit in silence and

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Speaker 2: can't be comfortable in that silence. And then there's my

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Speaker 2: dad who is just saying things to say is I'm like, Dad,

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Speaker 2: I need you to take a breath within this, like

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Speaker 2: take a breath. And then I feel bad for.

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Speaker 4: Them saying it's about that some things it's okay, it's

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Speaker 4: set in silence.

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Speaker 2: I did say that, I'm like.

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Speaker 3: Unacceptable.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 2: He gives me the look like Janna, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I just have to say it, because if not,

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Speaker 2: he talks to your he talks to people's ears off.

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Speaker 3: I don't I don't mind I don't mind, because.

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Speaker 2: He needs to breathe, he needs to be like. I

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Speaker 2: want him to feel settled that he doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: speak twenty four to seven. It's okay to sit in silence,

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Speaker 2: but that's not who he has.

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Speaker 3: Laura will sit in silence.

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Speaker 4: Just get a bit more self aware on this and

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Speaker 4: recognize reads the room a bit better than what your

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Speaker 4: dad does. But that's just two he is. He likes

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Speaker 4: to talk about stuff. And granted a lot of this

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Speaker 4: stuff is fine because we have quite a bit in

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Speaker 4: common in terms of cars and stuff with them. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so therefore I don't mind a conversation m hmm. But

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Speaker 4: I can I can see you getting to the point

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Speaker 4: where you're like, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have to

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Speaker 4: step in here.

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Speaker 2: And it to I just want him to be able to,

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Speaker 2: like to take a breath and be like, we can

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Speaker 2: sit and watch a show with him not asking twenty

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Speaker 2: five questions and then have his weird accents. Oh last

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Speaker 2: one we were in Scotland. I was like, can you

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Speaker 2: can you actually and we're gonna go to school, lind

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Speaker 2: And finally his wife is like, Martin, that's annoying, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like thank you. Like, I'm like, you don't have

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Speaker 2: to say Scotland every time you say Scotland. It's Scotland, Dad,

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Speaker 2: just say Scotland. You don't have to say Scotland every

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Speaker 2: time you say Scotland.

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Speaker 6: Just please stop.

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Speaker 2: And then I'm like, Okay, I feel myself being really

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Speaker 2: frustrated and annoyed with him, So I'm gonna walk upstairs

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Speaker 2: because I'm probably going to and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: be rude. That's the thing. I don't want to be rude.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be snippy. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: I just just be cool. But it's just the I

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Speaker 2: don't think he's very aware.

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Speaker 3: At times he's not. He's not, but we love them,

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Speaker 3: we do, and he's.

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Speaker 4: Great and he's he's very hospitable and very very friendly,

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Speaker 4: and yes, he wants to please you, Bibe, I want to.

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Speaker 2: I's you know, he's like a It's like a when

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Speaker 2: when it's like you're in the water and you feel

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Speaker 2: a shark just like circling you. Ready, it's like what

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Speaker 2: do you want to say that? Like it's like just.

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Speaker 3: What's that movie Adam? But he just appeals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's mister Deeds. My dad is one thousand percent

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Speaker 2: mister deeds. But he doesn't give you much. It's like, Dad,

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Speaker 2: just sit down, you're okay, We're okay, our relationship is great.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm not gonna write about you in my next book.

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Speaker 6: We're okay, Like we're good.

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Speaker 2: Sit down, take a breath, breathe, and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to talk about work when we're all just chilling. That's all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was good. We got to exercise and

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Speaker 3: we got to see all your family.

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Speaker 2: And I pulled my back out again. Yeah, we do

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Speaker 2: have a date night for our year anniversary of meeting.

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Speaker 2: He's and I'll just say it one same. My dad's great.

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Speaker 2: He's so good with the kids. I love his wife

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Speaker 2: all the things. But my husband doesn't like Baillies and

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Speaker 2: his coffee. Stopped giving him Bailey's and.

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Speaker 4: His coffee for me. Billy's is a women's drink as well.

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Speaker 2: What web, Sorry, I know our guest is here, but

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Speaker 2: I have one more thing. There was something about, oh,

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Speaker 2: we were saying, you know, we don't Alan doesn't have

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Speaker 2: dairy and my times that he asked if you want something,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, Dad, it has dairy in it. It

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Speaker 2: was something like, but he wasn't a whole milkome my

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Speaker 2: dad dairy stop. I know, good old family time, just

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Speaker 2: in time for Christmas. Oh well, we in speaking of

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Speaker 2: family time, we have a guest, Emma Johnson. She's a

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Speaker 2: journalist author. She has a book out called The fifty

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Speaker 2: to fifty Solution, The surprisingly simple choice that makes moms, dads,

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Speaker 2: and kids happier and healthy after a split, something we

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Speaker 2: know nothing about. So let's take a break and get

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Speaker 2: our guest on.

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Speaker 3: Hie me.

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Speaker 6: Nice to meet you. Guys, Nice to meet you too.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on. You know, this

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Speaker 2: is a very hot we'll just jump right into it

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Speaker 2: because this is a hot topic that we have been

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Speaker 2: discussing the last few episodes before this. We are both

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Speaker 2: in we're both divorced, have co parenting situations. I know

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Speaker 2: you have your book, The fifty to fifty Solution, and

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Speaker 2: at first it was like a well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: I want to get into it. It is yours back

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Speaker 2: by like your own personal or is it studies or

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Speaker 2: what was the kind of the basis for this research

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Speaker 2: and your findings of it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so everything that I advocate for is

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Speaker 1: always rooted in science. What is really best for kids,

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Speaker 1: for sure, but also for moms, for dads, and even

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Speaker 1: gender equality overall the economy. We can get into all

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Speaker 1: of that, but I can share you with you my

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Speaker 1: own personal journey. I got divorced, always for I wasn't

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Speaker 1: going to get divorced, and what do you know, got divorced.

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Speaker 1: And I will share this detail about my story, which

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Speaker 1: I don't talk about a lot, but my now ex husband,

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Speaker 1: he preceding the doors, he had a major brain trauma,

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Speaker 1: So that was an unusual circumstances that most families certainly

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Speaker 1: don't have to deal with, though I will say that

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Speaker 1: a lot of families and I think your family might

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Speaker 1: be one of these. There's extreme circumstances. People are human

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Speaker 1: and they go through very tough times. They go through

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Speaker 1: addiction and mental health crises and all these things that

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Speaker 1: I think we need to extend a lot of compassion

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Speaker 1: and care for in the spirit of all of our

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Speaker 1: best interests. But my journey was I got through this

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Speaker 1: divorce and it was to me and my kids were babies.

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Speaker 1: My son was I was pregnant with him when we

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Speaker 1: got divorced, and my daughter was too. They're teeny weeny.

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Speaker 1: I was then a new mom right, and Mommy want

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Speaker 1: to be with my babies all the time and going

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Speaker 1: through this trauma, as all divorces are. But I really

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Speaker 1: bought into the whole idea that the kids should do

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Speaker 1: with me. I was the mom I would know. I

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Speaker 1: bought into this idea that there's a you know, primary

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Speaker 1: home is better for kids. You know, they should have

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Speaker 1: one home base. I didn't know anybody that did fifty

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Speaker 1: to fifty. It was not even on the menu items

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Speaker 1: of things that people could do. This was fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 1: and thankfully, the world is a much different place. People

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Speaker 1: weren't even having these conversations very opten at all. So

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Speaker 1: that was just a given for me that I was

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Speaker 1: going to have the kids and they would visit their dad.

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Speaker 1: And at the time, he paid child support for a

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Speaker 1: short time, and then his life circumstances made that not possible,

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Speaker 1: and I knew that wasn't his fault. But thankfully he's

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Speaker 1: been able to really have a very successful story. He's

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Speaker 1: remarried to a great person. And as time went on,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I thought this was this great

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Speaker 1: win for me that I had the kids with me

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Speaker 1: all the time. But then I'm like, all other moms

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Speaker 1: are completely overwhelmed. I'm so resentful that they are not

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Speaker 1: with him. He wasn't super reliable about showing up, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, how is it a win for me

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Speaker 1: and all moms to have our kids all the time?

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Speaker 1: And then we complained that we're overwhelmed and stressed out

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Speaker 1: and this impacted my ability to work, can earn and

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Speaker 1: all do the things like go to the gym, go

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Speaker 1: out date, all the things and the Meanwhile, I had

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Speaker 1: started a mom blog, a single mom blog into those

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Speaker 1: in twelve and so I was sort of just kind

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Speaker 1: of like, work through my ideas through my writing, put

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Speaker 1: this out into the world, and it's kind of took off,

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Speaker 1: and my working through really resonated with a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: and I started getting tons of feedback and started just

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Speaker 1: really formulating my own ideas but also researching this issue

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Speaker 1: and over the last thirty years and certainly accelerating now

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Speaker 1: there's so much social science. People are so interested in

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Speaker 1: what is best for kids. But then this again approborates

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Speaker 1: out to all parts of the family in our communities

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Speaker 1: really and it's really you can't argue with it. Fifty

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Speaker 1: to fifty is absolutely the best situation for the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of families, and there's always going to be exceptions

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Speaker 1: to that, and there might be temporary exceptions and certain

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Speaker 1: you know, in a family that is focused on fifty

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Speaker 1: to fifty, but it really comes down to equal parenting time.

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Speaker 1: But it's even that fifty to fifty number, and the

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Speaker 1: kids and all the members of the family knowing that

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Speaker 1: it's fifty to fifty is very impactful. And I was

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you guys are talking about this

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Speaker 1: because it's such an important topic. In fact, tens of

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Speaker 1: millions of people in this country alone.

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Speaker 3: So what point did you switch to fifty to fifty then?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, as my kids say, I like, stabilize more.

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Speaker 6: We just kind of just between the two.

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Speaker 1: Of us kind of worked out a schedule that was

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Speaker 1: more and more equitable. And then because o're sixteen and

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Speaker 1: fourteen now and about five years ago, just between the

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Speaker 1: two of us, we greed, we're so close to fifty

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Speaker 1: to fifty, and it was like this convoluted thing with

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Speaker 1: like the weekend.

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Speaker 6: And that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: It's like, no matter how great your relationship I mentioning

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Speaker 1: you guys can imagine it can relate but that going

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Speaker 1: back and forth is always annoying for the kids, right,

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Speaker 1: and the more like two days here, one days there,

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Speaker 1: it ends up being so many more back and forth.

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Speaker 1: Then if you just do like on our family we

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Speaker 1: do every Friday, the kids switch, like they go to

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Speaker 1: school on Friday, let's say, from my house, and then

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Speaker 1: after school they.

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Speaker 6: Go to their dad's house.

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Speaker 1: Right, So that's you know, for switches a month. Whereas

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Speaker 1: if you do like the ever of the weekend Wednesday

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Speaker 1: evening dinner. I did the math one time, it's like

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Speaker 1: sixteen back and forth. And the back and forths are

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Speaker 1: always the most annoying for the kids. If there's tension

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Speaker 1: between the two of you, that's that many more times

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Speaker 1: you have to see the other parent. So there's just

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Speaker 1: a practical ease of it too. But yeah, so we

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Speaker 1: do that and the kids it's super interesting because of

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Speaker 1: course we have like variation, things come up, there's switches,

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Speaker 1: and my kids, my son especially, he's like, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: when are we going to make it up? When is

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Speaker 1: it going to be fifty to fifty Because here's a

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Speaker 1: big part of it, him knowing that his dad is

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Speaker 1: in it fifty percent of the time. Let's take my

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Speaker 1: family out of it. What the social scientists have found,

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Speaker 1: in particular, if you're interested, doctor William Fabricius at Arizona

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Speaker 1: State University. He's a real leader in this and he

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Speaker 1: has a wonderful way of talking about these issues in

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Speaker 1: a really accessible way. And when he told me, he says,

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Speaker 1: you know, when those what his research found, it's like

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Speaker 1: when those kids have fifty to fifty, the.

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Speaker 6: First of all, the kids fair better the closer.

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Speaker 1: And closer that that schedul jewel gets to fifty to fifty.

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Speaker 1: But what it's doing, it's not so much the hours.

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Speaker 1: I mean you guys know, like the kids at their

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Speaker 1: your house, Like are they are you spending like all

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Speaker 1: this personal, one on one frontal lobe development time with

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Speaker 1: them now? Like they're at their events and they're at

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Speaker 1: their friend's house, they're in their room on their things.

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Speaker 1: Like it's not about the number of hours. But when

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Speaker 1: it's we tell those kids it's half your dad's house,

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Speaker 1: half your mom's house, it communicates those kids that their

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Speaker 1: dads are in it to win it and that the

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Speaker 1: dad is not going to slip out of their lives,

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Speaker 1: because that is an incredible risk. When we marginalize dads

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Speaker 1: in their kids' lives. When parents split up and the

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Speaker 1: courts their co parent, our whole society communicates to men

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Speaker 1: overall that they don't matter in kids' lives, that they're expendable,

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Speaker 1: that they only really matter, you know, twenty percent, thirty

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Speaker 1: percent of the time.

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Speaker 6: But when we say no, we know.

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Speaker 1: We know intuitively as humans, we know in our personal family,

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Speaker 1: we know the social scientists decades and hundreds of studies

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Speaker 1: show that men are just as important to child bearing

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Speaker 1: as women, dads and moms, and like biologically comically even

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Speaker 1: in utero to babies. When we acknowledge that with a

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Speaker 1: simple fifty to fifty schedule that is so elegant and easy,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows then that that dad is more likely to

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Speaker 1: stick around, and they are. They're statistically they are most

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Speaker 1: more likely to stick around and be actively engaged, and

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Speaker 1: the benefits of that are just exponential.

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Speaker 4: So when you went to fifty fifty, did your ex

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Speaker 4: husband stop paying maintenance because it's a fifty to fifty split.

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Speaker 1: No, we only did that for like a year and

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Speaker 1: then it was there was none of that. And that's

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Speaker 1: very specific to my family that we just agree that

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Speaker 1: he was not able to do that. And I don't

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Speaker 1: believe in maintenance anymore actually at all. And I know

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Speaker 1: I listened to your recent podcast with your the three

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Speaker 1: of you and your acts. Your family is so interesting

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Speaker 1: because you have such a successful co parenting relationship, it's

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Speaker 1: also unequal and you're and you're paying him, And I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know in my research, in my like all

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Speaker 1: these years I've been working in this space, like child support.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly alimenty, but child support always creates conflict and

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Speaker 1: bad feelings. And I like to say, hell, have no

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Speaker 1: fury like a woman paying child support. I mean, women

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Speaker 1: are not having it. And it's so interesting that you

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Speaker 1: guys struggle with that. Yeah, it's super.

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Speaker 6: It's super interesting.

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Speaker 1: And if I were to wave my magic wand you know,

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Speaker 1: every single family law case, whether you go through the courts,

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Speaker 1: which ninety eight percent people do not, or you just

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Speaker 1: work out between the two of you, maybe you have

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Speaker 1: a lawyer or therapist involved. But the presumption and the

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Speaker 1: cultural norm would be fifty fifty. Everybody pays their own

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Speaker 1: bills like an adult.

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Speaker 2: That'd be nice. But the problem, though, I think, is

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Speaker 2: though with women who you know a lot of women

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Speaker 2: have reached out to me. They you know, especially whether

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Speaker 2: it's from an abusive relationship or their husband's cheating. But

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Speaker 2: they were the stay at home mom. They don't have

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Speaker 2: the ability to be able to go and get something

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Speaker 2: on their own. And that's the piece where you know,

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Speaker 2: they would need that support of a child support and

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Speaker 2: I that's where it's it's hard for me because it's like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 2: clearly my ex needs the support to be able to

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Speaker 2: house our kids in a house and that's where most

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Speaker 2: of my child support money goes. But also yes, that's

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Speaker 2: where the anger is too, because I'm like, you're a man,

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Speaker 2: figure it out, like I you know, I've I paid

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Speaker 2: you alimony on top of this, Like you know, that's

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Speaker 2: a that's that is where they're you know, resentbent and

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Speaker 2: I have them seventy percent of the time. So I

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Speaker 2: don't know how me paying the highest amount of child

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Speaker 2: support in Tennessee is fair given the time and the

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Speaker 2: reason too for our divorce, which again I know that

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Speaker 2: that's it's a no fault state whatever, but I still

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Speaker 2: just like that that piece is a and and you know,

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Speaker 2: and he says and just like he said in the

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Speaker 2: podcast where he was he hopes one day to not

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Speaker 2: take it. I just don't ever see that day coming.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's where I just am like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't ever see that day coming. I don't believe

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Speaker 2: I know, you know, why would I start to believe him? Now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if any case I've ever heard of

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Speaker 4: in the UK since I arrived in America where a

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Speaker 4: woman pays a man.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like it's a it's more that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I don't I've heard more people

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Speaker 2: or more cases of a woman paying, but I still

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Speaker 2: also have heard many more of those men not taking

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Speaker 2: them right well increasingly.

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Speaker 1: Actually, child support is going out of favor in general.

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Speaker 1: There's a really this is coming from state data. But

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Speaker 1: I mean the whole thing is so messy. I mean

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Speaker 1: it was child support was established well, I mean there's

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Speaker 1: always been some kind of form of it, child support,

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Speaker 1: you know, to basically make when women had no economic power.

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Speaker 1: Being back you know, thousands of years when women couldn't

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Speaker 1: hold earning positions in societies. I mean even going back

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Speaker 1: we can get our braids around fifty years ago or

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Speaker 1: even when my mom was a single mom you know,

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Speaker 1: forty years ago, thirty years ago, and you know, there

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Speaker 1: was a sense of that, but that's not the case anymore.

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Speaker 1: I think forty percent of heterosexual married couples women on

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Speaker 1: the breadwinners. There is gender equality in the public space now.

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Speaker 1: Women have been the majority in college campuses and college

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Speaker 1: graduates since nineteen eighty two.

438
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 6: Women have economic power or no.

439
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: And if they're choosing to off ramp to stay home,

440
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: that is a choice and it's harsh, but there are

441
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: consequences to that choice. The thing is is when it

442
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: becomes obligatory, there's resentment. But I hear increasingly cases where

443
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, people are when when you take the sports

444
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: out of it and you take all the stupid, dated,

445
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: not relevant laws out of it, it gives people space

446
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: to be decent, brings out their best selves. I hear

447
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: anecdotally cases of families where it's like, yeah, maybe she

448
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: did or him off ramped and stayed home, or maybe

449
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: there was a disabled kid or disabled you know, old

450
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: parent that was being cared for, and they're like, okay,

451
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: I see it, I have a well I have extra

452
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: now you know, I'll float the boat for you for

453
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: a year until you get on your feet. You know,

454
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: people just are being kind with each other in a

455
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: very practical way. But when we are like, okay, you

456
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: have to pay me thirty two hundred dollars a month,

457
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 1: until like, you know, I get well, that's just the

458
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 1: only reason he gets thirteen hundred dollars a month is

459
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: because you have thirty two hundred dollars a month, and

460
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: the court can see that if you were a poorer family,

461
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: those numbers would be totally different. And it's very interesting

462
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: that the poorer families and what I'm seeing is they

463
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: do better. So, for example, there's huge portions of the

464
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: population that are eligible to receive child support through the

465
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: state and don't do not pursue it, and these are

466
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 1: mostly poor women. And the faith that have an art like,

467
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: they have conferences to figure out how to fix this problem.

468
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: They see it as a problem that more moms are

469
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: not applying for child support. And when they survey these moms,

470
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: these poor moms who are probably in a better position

471
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: to get you know, would benefit from these few hundred

472
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: dollars a month. The reasons that they give are just

473
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: so beautiful. They say things like, well, the dad has

474
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: the kids part of the time, so why should he

475
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: have to pay? Or they say he's already These are

476
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: what the they held the government in a survey to

477
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: those states that they say, he's already paying as much

478
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: as he can. I don't want the government to force

479
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: him to pay. They see the men struggling to pay

480
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: afford it, and they see the value of the men

481
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: taking care of the kids. So why would they get

482
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: the government involved in this unfair thing? And it just

483
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: would mess up their call parenting and drive the men away.

484
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: And they see that, and these are the poor women.

485
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 2: There's a piece of me that's like all right, like

486
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: I asked them the other episode, you know, about fifty

487
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: to fifty. And I think there's a piece of me

488
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: that still is frustrated because when we got divorced, I

489
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 2: had laid it out and I wrote about this in

490
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: the book, but not as harsh as I think I'm

491
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 2: about to say it, but but here I go. Anyways, Uh,

492
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 2: when I had laid out because he was gonna he

493
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 2: signed a post up when we got divorced and he

494
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: said he was going to fight it, which you know,

495
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 2: just was so upsetting to me because he knew the

496
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: consequences if he cheated again. So you know, sorry, but

497
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 2: those were the consequences, and you signed a post nup,

498
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: but my lawyers said post ups don't hold up in

499
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: court as well as prenups. So you know, this is

500
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: how much it's going to be to fight it. This

501
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: is what he could end up with. So I start

502
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 2: to spiral because I'm a child of a divorce family.

503
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: I grew up with no money. I fought for everything

504
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 2: I've ever earned. I worked my ass off to get

505
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: where I'm at, and you know, throughout our marriage, all

506
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 2: he did was take, take, take in our marriage, so

507
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: money wise, and they would blame me for him not

508
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 2: having a job. So when I sat down and kind

509
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 2: of google excelled sheeted things, you know, I put numbers

510
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,959
Speaker 2: that I thought were a fair amount, so the things

511
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: that the Instagram adds that he was in the podcasts

512
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 2: that we were doing the book, and then I put

513
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 2: another you know, that was the middle column. Then there

514
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: was an unfair column on the right, but I put

515
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: it there, which was still going to be less than half,

516
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,479
Speaker 2: but it was close to half. And then there was

517
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: the left column, which I thought was the most fair.

518
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: It was split down the middle with what he brought

519
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: in the earnings, and that's when he said, okay, fifty

520
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: to fifty sixty forty seventy thirty. So I essentially paid

521
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 2: more alimony to have seventy thirty because he knew my

522
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: kids were our kids were. The was my what I

523
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: didn't want to lose, so that I would pay more

524
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: to keep the kids, and that's what I did. So

525
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: but now I'm okay, I paid more for alimony, and

526
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: now I paid the hymn child support. And there's a

527
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: piece of me where it's like that resentment comes in

528
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: where it's like, well, I paid for that time, but

529
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 2: that pisses me off. And then now you're getting high

530
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: amount of child support and I have them seventy percent

531
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 2: of time. So now I'm like, here, fine, you want

532
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty, take fifty to fifty. And but then

533
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: this is my side piece that I'm sorry, I'm going

534
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 2: off on a total tangent.

535
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 6: I want to hear it all.

536
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: I there's a piece of control that I don't want

537
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 2: to lose because I don't like what goes on in

538
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: that house. I don't like the fact they play video

539
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: games every night. I don't like the fact of the

540
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: foods they eat, so It's like there's I can control

541
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 2: more in my house. And I know that's not a

542
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 2: good thing to say, but that's just my truth with it.

543
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I feel like totally normal that.

544
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: The kids have technology here. I don't like them watching tea.

545
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: I don't like any of it. I don't let them.

546
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: Don't allow it here. Use your mind, you be creative, color.

547
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: You know, there's let's play games. They just go most

548
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: of the time. Would you do a day? Isn't it?

549
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: Oh?

550
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: Video games? I'm like, m like, it's like a dagger.

551
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, why would I want to give him fifty

552
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: to fifty of and then then have their little brains

553
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 2: doing that.

554
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: I totally I I personally, I think that is the

555
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: most normal human feelings. I think it's totally normal. And

556
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: I personally struggle with that. I see moms struggle with

557
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: all that all the time. There's like so many things

558
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: that play like well, one just the human human condition,

559
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,479
Speaker 1: like we want to control, right, we love our kids.

560
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: There's the parenting instinct that kicks in. And gender plays

561
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: a huge role. I mean since we were born, everything

562
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: around us told women that we were moms. I mean

563
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: that was it. Like we have been conditioned since we

564
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: were born to think that we are the better parent.

565
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 6: And there's an equal messaging.

566
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's very also strong but also confusing

567
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: messages to dad because on one hand we're like, no,

568
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: we want to be dads, but you should be the breadwinner.

569
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: But you shouldn't want to be the breadwinner. You should

570
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: be feminists and can see. So there's a lot of

571
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: there's a lot of confusion in this moment, and I

572
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: think we need to extend each other and ourselves a

573
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: lot of grace about how confusing these messages are. But

574
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I tell myself when I struggle

575
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: with those very similar resentments about like oh I want

576
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: the control or I think I'm the better. So again

577
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: going back to social science, we know. I mean it

578
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: is like there's no there's really never ever seen a

579
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: study and I follow all this stuff.

580
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 6: I mean, this is what I do.

581
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: A study that suggests or as any findings that so

582
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: that fifty to fifty is bad or has any negative downside,

583
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: And the way I think about it frame it up

584
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: in my mind, it's when I get frustrated with my

585
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: co parent and I'm like, that's not how I want it.

586
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 6: Done or this is I think it gets be better.

587
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: It is a basic human right for parents the parent

588
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: their children. That is a basic rights that parents have.

589
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: And there's a basic human rights for children to be

590
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: parented by their parents, and we see increasingly a societal

591
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: acceptance of that. For example, as a society, we believe

592
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: that children should not be separated from their parents at borders, right.

593
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: We believe that children should be with their parents, and

594
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: we believe and there's such a human craving to be

595
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: connected to our fai it's of origin. I mean, look

596
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: at the popularity of like ancestry, dot com and twenty

597
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: three dot me. I mean, these are bazillion dollar industries

598
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: because people are so compelled to know who they are

599
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: connected to. And again going back to the importance of

600
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: moms and dads equally, it is not my decision and

601
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: it is not down your decision to decide if your

602
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: kid's other parent is a good parent orner. That is

603
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: their dad, that is their dad, and oh man, it

604
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: is so hard to accept that some days. But we

605
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: are giving them such a gift to just have that

606
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: experience and decide for themselves, and that we're planting the

607
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: seeds and foundations today when they're I think your kids

608
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: are a lot younger than mine, but today they we

609
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: are planting the seeds for them to connect and to

610
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: make that connection with their dad. It's like, yeah, they

611
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: should be on video games and maybe they should have

612
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: more like organic food or whatever your beef is, which

613
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: is legit, that's real. But at the same time, we're

614
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: planning the seats for them. They have that connection and

615
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: let's get real. Your dad, your kids dad is a

616
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: great dad, right, Like they have two great men parent

617
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: father figures in their lives. Like right, this is wonderful.

618
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: You have got to do everything you can to nurture that,

619
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: not marginalize that. And it's like, yep, they watched too

620
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: many crappy movies, they need too much takeout. But now

621
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: they are that we are solidifying that relationship and communicating

622
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: them that their dad is just as important and men

623
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: are just as important and fathers are just as important.

624
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: And that is going to reverberate into your folk for

625
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: generations and generations and they can grow up and decide

626
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: what kind of parents they want to be and if

627
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: too much video games would like ruin their lives or not.

628
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: But that's not really your decision to make.

629
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because it is something where I've noticed

630
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: where you know, their question is always like, you know,

631
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: when is daddy Day? Or you know, why do we

632
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: have more mammy days and daddy days? And it's you know,

633
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: it's it's harder to answer that question now because I

634
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: want my babies. Like, but I hear what you're saying.

635
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: I do hear that.

636
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: What about you, Ben, I mean, situations are really different.

637
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 4: You pay money to your ex and you pay to

638
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 4: look after the kids seventy percent of the time.

639
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: I pay.

640
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 4: My ex wife money, but since I split with us,

641
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 4: she's had Troy most of the time because of at

642
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 4: that point in time, I traveled a lot. Therefore, a

643
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: fifty split would never have even a seventy thirty split

644
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 4: would never have worked because I was I was not

645
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 4: around for chunks of chunks of time due to my

646
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 4: due to my work, and then I moved away to Aberdeen,

647
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 4: which was seventy hours away, so I could never I've

648
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: never been in a place where I've been able to

649
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 4: even try and have fifty fifty or even close to it,

650
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 4: which is why I mean, no one likes to pay

651
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 4: people money every month and I've done it for years.

652
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 4: But in all fairness to my ex, she's always had

653
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 4: Troy most of the time. So it's a completely different

654
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 4: scenario where she's, yes, she gets money, but she's taken

655
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 4: the responsibility of eighty percent back then.

656
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: But even it's now even more than.

657
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 4: That because because I'm over here, she's always she's always

658
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 4: had them, So though there's been struggles to pay the money,

659
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 4: and nobody likes to pay money that deep down, I'm like, Okay,

660
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 4: she's she's got them most of the time, but it's opposite. Yeah,

661
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 4: you're paying money.

662
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 6: That's unusual. Yeah, that's unusual.

663
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I understand your like any any anyone in

664
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 4: this world when they listen to it, is like, how

665
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: does that? How can that even make sense? It just doesn't.

666
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 4: It's like taught us to your brain and bank account.

667
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 6: Everyone, Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

668
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: And I mean, things are changing, and honestly, you know

669
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: what I think is changing, because here's the other thing

670
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: that I like to mention in my you know, quest

671
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: to change everybody's hearts and minds on this topic.

672
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 6: The world is changing so quickly.

673
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: Like I've been working on this issue for a good

674
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: ten years, and it is remarkable to me how quickly

675
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: like the snowball is happening. Like now we have six

676
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: states in the United States that have presumptions of fifty

677
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: to fifty parenting. So when you split up, if you

678
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: were to go to court, at the court would be

679
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: like it's it's fifty to fifty unless there's and there's

680
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: like a dozen.

681
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in Nashville they are very much like it

682
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: is very much they want dads. I mean, it is

683
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: hard for women to even get sixty forty in Tennessee.

684
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: So because I have had a few friends by and

685
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: now I'm like, girls, take the sixty forty, you know,

686
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: or take the fifty. It's like it's it's because I

687
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: get it. I get the emotional it's it's hard, it's

688
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: a lot, you know. It's like I'm always the parent

689
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: that's on them, and it's like it's it's as much

690
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: as I love the time, I I get the exhaustion

691
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 2: of it too.

692
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

693
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: But sixty forty is I mean, let's think about that.

694
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: That's only another two nights a month. But it's only

695
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: two nights. It's not making a sizable difference in your

696
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: relationship with your kids. But what it does is solidify

697
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: you as a primary parent.

698
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's very important. You know.

699
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: I remember this one guy, I know, he they were

700
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: young parents and they weren't married, but they were you know,

701
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: split up with the kid as a baby, and they

702
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: were doing a good job. You know, they were making

703
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: a work and they had a lot of resources, but

704
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: they were doing it. And they were doing a good

705
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: job called parenting, like in a probably clumsy way, but

706
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: they were in it to win it. And then all

707
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: of a sudden she started just taking them to court

708
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: and going for all the primary care and there's some

709
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: false allegations and the money and childs and it didn't

710
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: make any sense. And he said, after one court appearance

711
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: he took her so he's like, what.

712
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 6: Are you doing?

713
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: This isn't make any sense at all, and she goes,

714
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: can you She's like, yeah, but think about how bad

715
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: it looks to everybody if I'm not the primary parent.

716
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 6: And that's real, and I hear her.

717
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: There is a lot of societal pressure from your family friends,

718
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: depending on what community you live in. And you live

719
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: in a community where fifty to fifty is the norm

720
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: and there's acceptance of that, but that's not true in

721
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: a lot of especially oral communities in this country, when

722
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: you are lindad is a bad mom if you are

723
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: sharing parenting time. That said that said, that is quickly changing,

724
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: and I feel very I am a thousand percent convinced

725
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: that our kids, you know, your kids, My kids are

726
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: going to grow up and they're statistically not going to

727
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: have They're not going to stay with their husband or

728
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: wife for the rest.

729
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 6: Of their lives.

730
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: Right, They're going to statistically grow up in some blended,

731
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: convoluted family and they're all going to do fifty to fifty.

732
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: They are absolutely going to do fifty to fifty. That

733
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: is exactly where all the world is moving. And they

734
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: will judge us. They will judge us.

735
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: Well, what is a minus? You know us going to

736
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: a fifty five? What is some tools or tips that

737
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: you'd give me that are also in your book.

738
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of this is just like internal work,

739
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: like just accepting that nobody is the better parent. I'm

740
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: not sure when this is been published, but it's right

741
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: before in the middle holidays, and I've been doing a

742
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: lot of media on those, like tips for co parenting

743
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: during the holidays, and it is really tough to accept

744
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: that both households are equal. So even if one parent

745
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: has like let's say, a really big family with all

746
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: these fun traditions and weeks of really fun holiday stuff,

747
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: and maybe the other parent doesn't have any family in

748
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: town or really just limited you know, traditions, or maybe

749
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: they're making up traditions for first time, that does not

750
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: make one family more important than the other in terms

751
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: of the time, and that could be hard. You know,

752
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: the holidays are so loaded and they're so fraud and

753
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: we all come to it with our expectations and our own.

754
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 6: Hopes for it.

755
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: But that's it's really our opportunity to like exercise our

756
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: best all on steroids and again, like again looking at

757
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: through the holiday lens. Just I mean, I can't emphasize

758
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: enough like extending your co parent grace if you've been

759
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: in a relationship with them, we know all their button issues.

760
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 6: You know how to push their.

761
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: Buttons and piss them off and get under their skin.

762
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: And as tempting as it can be, like restrain yourself right,

763
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: and everyone's struggling.

764
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 6: This is all new.

765
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: We're like reinventing history and family and doing all these

766
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: crazy things without models. You know, I'm a child divorce

767
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: your child of wars. We're figuring this out as we go,

768
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: and I think it's just like being forgiving and gracious

769
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: to each other.

770
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 6: It goes a really, really long way.

771
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, Where can our listeners find you.

772
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 6: Well relevant to this?

773
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: My book is The Fifty to Fifty Solution, and of

774
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: course it's on Amazon. My website attached that is Mom's

775
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: for Shared Parenting dot org, for sure Parenting dot org,

776
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: and all the social media. My instagram is thought Emma Johnson,

777
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: that'd probably be a good one.

778
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: Love it well. Thank you so much for coming on

779
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: and yeah, I've got some thinking to do.

780
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 6: Thank you for no thank you guys. I really appreciate

781
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 6: you tackling this. I know it's heavy.

782
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's hard. It's so hard, but I at

783
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I always want what's best

784
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: for the kids. So you know, if the kids were

785
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 2: also wanting more time, I mean that's and what I

786
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 2: do like about our relationship is you know the fact

787
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 2: that like I'm going away for a movie in January,

788
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: it's like, hey, I need you to watch the kids

789
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: for twelve days, and so it's like we have such

790
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: a good like he does help me when you know,

791
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: I go away for work and vice versa. But I

792
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: think the money piece will always be the struggle for sure.

793
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 7: So yeah, it's tough because like when he feels broke,

794
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 7: of course that money is super helpful, but he resents

795
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 7: taking it too, especially as a man.

796
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: I don't think so he says he does, but I don't. Mike,

797
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 2: if you're listening, you both know, Yeah.

798
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: But if you had, if you had a lower income,

799
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: it would be a non issue because it just there

800
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't be money on the table, right, And it's like

801
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: then the morality of it would be not even upper discussion.

802
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but again because we talked about the last time

803
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 2: where he's like, you think I like it, and I'm like,

804
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: I will always think you like taking it until you

805
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 2: stop taking it, like, because it's just what I've believed

806
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: in our marriage because he was just didn't respect the money.

807
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 2: So that's where it's but that's a piece of our past.

808
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 2: So anyways, uh so we'll see maybe one day, you know,

809
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 2: when he's going to stop taking it. When they're seventeen, Well.

810
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: I wonder if he gets into a relationship with somebody

811
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: that has money, then what then? I don't think the

812
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: state usually factors.

813
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: That doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter at all.

814
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 6: You're right.

815
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: But then then his linement, I don't need it, I

816
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: need it that that isn't relevant anymore because she would

817
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: have the money.

818
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: I know.

819
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see to be determined, Emma. I'll keep you posted,

820
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: all right. But thank you so much for coming on. Everyone,

821
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: go get the fifty to fifty solution, the surprisingly simple

822
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: choice that makes moms, dads, and kids happier and healthy

823
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: after a split. Thank you so much, Emma, Thank you guys.

824
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 3: Bye by