Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
Speaker 2: You are class, Settle down, class.
Speaker 3: We've been learning about civil rights activists this unit. Let's
Speaker 3: see how much we've been paying attention. Show we which
Speaker 3: NAACP activists sparked the Montgomery bus boycott by refusing to
Speaker 3: give up her seat on a segregated bus.
Speaker 1: Rosa Hugs.
Speaker 3: Good job class. Why were Rosa Parks and many other
Speaker 3: civil rights activists arrested in nineteen fifty six after the boycotts?
Speaker 3: Raise your hand if you know the answer, me.
Speaker 1: Me because the Alabama government said blaycotts were illegal. That's right. Okay.
Speaker 3: Last question, who was the first woman to lie in
Speaker 3: honor at the US Capitol? Rosa Pikes? Great class, Now
Speaker 3: you know all you need to know about Rosa Parks.
Speaker 1: Most of us in the US have been learning about
Speaker 1: Rosa Parks since elementary school or before.
Speaker 3: Yes, the Rosa Parks, the activists, the mother of the movement.
Speaker 3: We learned about her act of defiance at least every
Speaker 3: Black History Month, and it's always a great reminder how
Speaker 3: history is made by ordinary people deciding that enough is enough.
Speaker 1: For sure, And while we've known the name Rosa Parks
Speaker 1: and her contribution to the civil rights movement. For a
Speaker 1: long time, most curricula limit Missus Parks to a few
Speaker 1: trivia like facts, and sometimes those few facts we hear
Speaker 1: about Rosa Parks are used as punchlines in movies and songs.
Speaker 3: But thankfully we can learn more about Missus Parks through
Speaker 3: her own words and the memories of those who were
Speaker 3: closest to her, her own family. We'll be talking to
Speaker 3: her seventh niece, Miss Sheila Macaulay Keys.
Speaker 1: I'm Katie and I'm Eves today's episode The Real Life
Speaker 1: Rosa Parks.
Speaker 3: Do you remember your first impression of Rosa Parks?
Speaker 1: Uh. I don't know if I remember my very first impression,
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure it was sometime around elementary school
Speaker 1: or pre k or whatever. And I remember getting those
Speaker 1: same things that so many other young students got, those
Speaker 1: black and white contour drawings of all the civil rights leaders,
Speaker 1: and then you would color them man with their crayon
Speaker 1: are your colored pencils and put them up on the wall.
Speaker 1: I remember hearing about her and the busboycott and her
Speaker 1: refusing to give up her seat, and that's pretty much
Speaker 1: where my early knowledge of Rosa Parks ended. I don't
Speaker 1: remember watching any films about her. I don't remember talking
Speaker 1: about her beyond Black History Month. It was pretty contained
Speaker 1: experience of my knowledge of Rosa Parks at the time.
Speaker 3: I remember thinking that she was like so small and old.
Speaker 3: But she's like in her forties when she did that,
Speaker 3: so she really wasn't that old. And I also remember
Speaker 3: my mind being blown that she was still alive because
Speaker 3: they make the Civil rights movement seems like so far away,
Speaker 3: so it's like feels like ancient history to a kid.
Speaker 3: But I was like, wait, she's still alive. Yeah, she's
Speaker 3: indeed trite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh shit.
Speaker 3: And I remember like seeing her in media a lot
Speaker 3: beyond just the you know, Black History Month PSAs or
Speaker 3: McDonald's Black three six five or whatever the case may be. Like,
Speaker 3: I remember seeing her in just like random like pieces
Speaker 3: of media that I was like, ugh, Like that barbershop
Speaker 3: movie mm hmm, they're like making fun of Rose of
Speaker 3: Parks in two thousand and two. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1: Refresh my memory?
Speaker 3: So in the barbershop movie Cedric, the entertainer's character is
Speaker 3: a loud, opinionated old barber who shares his offensive takes
Speaker 3: with anyone who will listen, and I see where the
Speaker 3: cast is participating in typical barbershop talk. Cedric's character takes wife,
Speaker 3: said Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson, and Rosa Parks. Exactly,
Speaker 3: Rosa Parks. He says, he's only the founder of the
Speaker 3: modern civil rights movement.
Speaker 4: But because she saw on the.
Speaker 1: Book Edie, Yeah, what did folks say in response to that?
Speaker 3: Well, the filmmakers in the studio apologize for the line
Speaker 3: and said that you know, it was one character's opinion
Speaker 3: and not the opinion shared by the film itself, the
Speaker 3: filmmakers or MGM Picture. But even though they apologize, Jesse
Speaker 3: Jackson still told the Associated Press that he would like
Speaker 3: the producers to cut the offending lines from the home
Speaker 3: video release, remember physical media. So Jackson said that there
Speaker 3: are some heroes who are sacred to a people, and
Speaker 3: these comments poisoned an otherwise funny movie. Referring to doctor
Speaker 3: King and Missus Parks, he said, he could let the
Speaker 3: little swipe at him, He could let that fly, but
Speaker 3: you know, talking about doctor King and Missus Parks was
Speaker 3: a step too far. And Cedric, the entertainer, the one
Speaker 3: who said it in the movie, said he wasn't really
Speaker 3: comfortable with saying the line, but he told USA Today
Speaker 3: that quote, personally, I had some qualms with saying it,
Speaker 3: But every situation has an instigator, someone who likes to
Speaker 3: charge the room and say something controversial. That's what my
Speaker 3: character does in the movie. So everyone was offended or
Speaker 3: trying to distance themselves from it. Well not everyone. Ice Cube,
Speaker 3: who also started in the movie, told USA Today, quote,
Speaker 3: people are making too much of it. It's a funny
Speaker 3: movie about a barbershop, and no one is exempt at
Speaker 3: the barbershop. Just because we talk about people doesn't mean
Speaker 3: we don't love these people too. End quote.
Speaker 1: So what do you think about it? Or what did
Speaker 1: you think at the time.
Speaker 3: So at the time, I remember being a kid and
Speaker 3: being confused why people were mad over a joke. So
Speaker 3: I asked my mom and she said it was disrespectful,
Speaker 3: Like she saw the joke as disrespectful too, especially because
Speaker 3: Rosa Parks was still alive to hear them belitterally what
Speaker 3: she did. But in the scene, Eddie, the character Cedric
Speaker 3: is playing, is instantly rebuffed by everyone in the barbershop.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I don't spend that much time in barbershops,
Speaker 3: but they are known for being a place where most
Speaker 3: topics are fair game, even civil rights icons. But I
Speaker 3: do think the flattening of Rosa Park's story as just
Speaker 3: the woman who sat down on a buss contributes to
Speaker 3: these portrayals. It's like, we're all taught a few things
Speaker 3: about this lady, but everyone is taught those few things,
Speaker 3: so she's a cultural touchstone who anyone will understand if referenced.
Speaker 3: Like if I were to make a joke about like
Speaker 3: Mary Church, Terrelle or Dorothy Hye or Elli Baker, most
Speaker 3: people wouldn't get it, but that's not the case for
Speaker 3: Rosa Parks. So I think it makes it easier for
Speaker 3: people to just like insert her in there, and it's
Speaker 3: like everyone's gonna get this joke, whether they think it's
Speaker 3: offensive or not.
Speaker 1: I think the whole barbershops thing is interesting because it's
Speaker 1: like one of those quote unquote safe spaces or like
Speaker 1: protected spaces where that I think we generally, like culturally
Speaker 1: make a lot of excuses for anything in anything goes situation.
Speaker 1: But I like your point that, like there was pushback
Speaker 1: in the scene. People did say, you know who Rosa
Speaker 1: Parks is, stop playing she deserves respect, and so I
Speaker 1: think it's a worthy conversation to have to say, like,
Speaker 1: how are we respecting and how are we talking about
Speaker 1: our elders. Because things that are portrayed in media, like
Speaker 1: they are disseminated broadly, a lot of people see them.
Speaker 1: Those are the things that are repeated over and over
Speaker 1: in different people's minds. So from that perspective of like
Speaker 1: what are we actually transmitting, then I think it matters.
Speaker 1: But I do also think that it was a lot
Speaker 1: more lighthearted and also like treat it with care than
Speaker 1: a lot of people were making it seem.
Speaker 3: Because I went to YouTube and looked at this scene
Speaker 3: and the comments on the scene are crazy, Like people
Speaker 3: are like, yeah, Rosa Parks, they do shit. She was
Speaker 3: the first one to sit on the bus, that was
Speaker 3: Claude Kelvin. If they didn't like her because she was duskied, pregnant,
Speaker 3: team much oh people, the park's bitter fitted for colorism.
Speaker 3: I'm like yeah, wow, yeah, And so I do think,
Speaker 3: sure it's a joke, and like I don't think they
Speaker 3: meant any harm by it, No, But we what twenty
Speaker 3: two years later and I'm seeing these comments from people
Speaker 3: on YouTube like kind of bashing Rosa Parks and like
Speaker 3: in They're Dead Ass series, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's not on the movie though, that's not
Speaker 1: on the writers of that scene.
Speaker 3: But I do think it's interesting to see, like how
Speaker 3: you said, like transmitting things like where does it go? Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: how do How are people reacting to it? They're not
Speaker 3: taking it as like a joke for real, They're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: down with ros you.
Speaker 1: Know what that's really about. Though, that's funny. I didn't
Speaker 1: see those comments. This is really about how people learned
Speaker 1: about Claude at Covin and they felt like they were
Speaker 1: right after that. They were like, I learned about Claude
Speaker 1: at COVID. Oh there was a person before Rosa Parks. Now,
Speaker 1: even though I learned about this from this article that
Speaker 1: nine hundred thousand other people read, I am about to
Speaker 1: spread the word.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean absolutely give claud it caving her
Speaker 3: her props. Yeah, but it's like, you know, i'd be
Speaker 3: Wells refused to get off of a train plusy versus Ferguson,
Speaker 3: Like that's what that whole case is about, Like a
Speaker 3: black guy refusing to like move. So it's like it's
Speaker 3: okay that more than one person did this thing. It's
Speaker 3: like we're building on We're building on it. So I
Speaker 3: do think it's like a weird like pattern of using
Speaker 3: Rosa Parks as a bunch of but hey, after the break,
Speaker 3: we'll look at how other media portrays Rose Parks and
Speaker 3: speak with her niece, Sheila McAuley keys about her auntie Rosa.
Speaker 3: See you on the other side of this break. Okay,
Speaker 3: So you know I have a complicated relationship with Tyler Perry.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I know.
Speaker 3: So you know in his movie Homecoming release on Netflix
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two. I wasn't rushing to see it,
Speaker 3: but I watched it one day just to see what
Speaker 3: Tyler was talking about or whatever.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, And to.
Speaker 3: My surprise, like I didn't see this promoted anywhere, I
Speaker 3: didn't see people talking about it online. But there was
Speaker 3: a very superfluous flashback scene where Medea inserts herself in
Speaker 3: the civil rights movement the day Rosa Parks decides to
Speaker 3: not move from her seat on the bus.
Speaker 1: Madea inserts herself how.
Speaker 3: Basically, she says, Rosa Parks ran off with her man
Speaker 3: and was on the bus with him. Give a town.
Speaker 4: She says, you know why Rose didn't get off that bus.
Speaker 1: People think she was trying to have black people, but
Speaker 1: that is not at all what happened. All the reason
Speaker 1: Rosa didn't get off that bus, she din won't get
Speaker 1: our ass whooped because she has stole my man. That's
Speaker 1: an interesting creative choice, to say the least. So were
Speaker 1: people up in arms about it like they were about
Speaker 1: barber shop.
Speaker 3: Not at all. Like I said, I didn't see anything
Speaker 3: about it. I didn't even know the movie had it
Speaker 3: in there until I watched it well after it was released,
Speaker 3: because nobody was talking about it. Tyler Perry told Variety
Speaker 3: that he actually did this joke in front of Missus
Speaker 3: Parks during Diary of a Mad Black Woman in Detroit,
Speaker 3: which was one of his most famous plays, and she
Speaker 3: said she thought it was funny. Really well, you know,
Speaker 3: according to Tager Perry.
Speaker 1: Right now, is that a trusted source or is it
Speaker 1: a bias to her?
Speaker 3: You know, he might have put it a little extra
Speaker 3: on it, but he said, initially I was nervous. I
Speaker 3: was like, oh Lord, what's she going to say? Her
Speaker 3: caregiver was someone who worked with Sicily type and for
Speaker 3: many years, and they would call me up and tell
Speaker 3: me how much she enjoyed it, how much it made
Speaker 3: her laugh.
Speaker 1: It's definitely in the same spirit as the barbershop joke.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious about why the response is different. What
Speaker 1: do you think, Well, I do wonder about the reach
Speaker 1: of the movies, Like movies work a lot different now
Speaker 1: than they did in barbershops time, Like there were more
Speaker 1: cultural touch points, and Barbershop was definitely one of those movies,
Speaker 1: especially for black culture, and especially because it was about
Speaker 1: a barber shop. Like, Oh, black people love talking about
Speaker 1: the camaraderie of the barbershop and how it's just for us,
Speaker 1: and how the conversations that happened there don't happen anywhere else,
Speaker 1: Like that is a long standing thing that Black people
Speaker 1: love to talk about. So I wonder if the whole
Speaker 1: the the culture around movies being cultural touch points, things
Speaker 1: that people gathered around at a single moment in time
Speaker 1: that like it was back in that day versus how
Speaker 1: it is now, Like it's a lot more dispersed. The
Speaker 1: way we watch films, we don't watch them at the
Speaker 1: same time, the conversations that happened around it happened in
Speaker 1: so many different places that I think it's harder to
Speaker 1: distill it down to a single point, so I think
Speaker 1: that might have something to do with it. But I
Speaker 1: also think that I don't know, maybe there's something about
Speaker 1: context to where the comment that subject the entertainer's character
Speaker 1: made in barber Shop was more pointed and the language
Speaker 1: was a lot clearer, like who is Rosa Parks versus
Speaker 1: what Medea said was more like this created fantastical fantasy
Speaker 1: set within a part of the movie that was clearly
Speaker 1: about like a situation that was more fictional versus something
Speaker 1: that felt like more nonfictional.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see that. Also, it's interesting that Tyler
Speaker 3: Perry said that he did the joke in Diary and
Speaker 3: Mad Black Woman, like the play version, but took it
Speaker 3: out of Diary of a Mad Black Woman, the movie version,
Speaker 3: because when the movie came out, I think it might
Speaker 3: have been a similar time in movies closer to Barbershop.
Speaker 3: But I think it was like a calculated decision, Like
Speaker 3: I saw what happened with barber Shop, I'm going to
Speaker 3: just like avoid all this smoke and like put it
Speaker 3: in like years and years later and then kind of
Speaker 3: like preemptively being on on the record saying Missus Parks
Speaker 3: heard this joke and she thought it was funny, Like
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. Also, it was twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: the reckoning, yeah, not even the reckoning like we were
Speaker 3: going to ask Molly wopped. Oh yeah, ye yeah, you know, COVID.
Speaker 1: Was going on.
Speaker 3: The racial working was slowing down a little bit. But
Speaker 3: I think people were just like fucking tired.
Speaker 1: We were also grasping at straws for things that we
Speaker 1: could enjoy. Yeah, and media.
Speaker 3: So it's like, okay, whatever, I think.
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is we're all very disenchanted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're all cynical at this point. Yeah, we have tie,
Speaker 1: we don't energy. Eggs are seventeen dollars? Are we really
Speaker 1: going to fight chickens?
Speaker 3: And also she's no longer alive at this point too,
Speaker 3: So I think that was a big part of the
Speaker 3: thing in two thousand and two, is like you talk
Speaker 3: about this old woman who you should like have like
Speaker 3: a lot of respect for and be showing some reverence towards.
Speaker 3: You make a front of her say she ain't do nothing,
Speaker 3: she can hear you. So I think that that also
Speaker 3: might play a part into it too. I'm not saying
Speaker 3: there were no positive depictions of Rosa Parks beyond our textbooks.
Speaker 3: We've got the two thousand and two biopics Starrying Angela
Speaker 3: Bassett so came out the same year as Barbershop, and
Speaker 3: then twenty years later The Rebellious Life of Missus Rosa Parks,
Speaker 3: which is a documentary that came out in twenty joy two,
Speaker 3: so that's actually the same year as Homecoming of the
Speaker 3: Tyler Perry movie.
Speaker 1: She also wrote an autobiography titled Rosa Parks My Story.
Speaker 3: Indeed, there's so much said and written about Roads of Parks,
Speaker 3: but I was interested in knowing more about her as
Speaker 3: not the legendary civil rights that she is now, but
Speaker 3: also as a person, what she did beyond the movement,
Speaker 3: which I think sometimes gets overlooked. In twenty sixteen, Rosa
Speaker 3: Parks's nieces and nephews released the book Our Auntie Rosa.
Speaker 3: The Family of Rosa Parks Remembers her Life and Lessons.
Speaker 3: It's full of beautiful personal memories they had with their
Speaker 3: aunt and the lessons they learned from her.
Speaker 4: My name is Sheila McAuley Keys. I am the seventh
Speaker 4: niece of Rosa McAuley Parks. My father was her brother
Speaker 4: and the only sibling. I am an author, and Rosa
Speaker 4: Parks was my aunt and also my mother.
Speaker 1: After the break, we'll speak with Sheila McCauley Keys, Rosa
Speaker 1: Parks's seventh niece and the author of the book Our
Speaker 1: Auntie Rosa.
Speaker 3: We saw the book that you and your brothers and
Speaker 3: sisters and nieces and nephews wrote, and we were really
Speaker 3: excited to read it and learn more about Rosa Parks
Speaker 3: from y'all's perspective. And I was wondering, with so many
Speaker 3: books written about your aunt, why was it important for
Speaker 3: your family to write a book from a more personal perspective.
Speaker 4: The reason why it was important for us to come
Speaker 4: from our perspective because we were her brother's children and
Speaker 4: we wanted the public to know of our experiences with
Speaker 4: our aunt. She basically raised us. Most of of us
Speaker 4: were grown already, but my parents, her brother, Sylvester McCauley,
Speaker 4: died in nineteen seventy seven, her husband died in seventy seven.
Speaker 4: My grandmother died soon thereafter. That's Rosa Parks's mom, and
Speaker 4: then my mother died in eighty two. So she was
Speaker 4: a matriarch. She became the matriarch of our family, and
Speaker 4: she was the glue that held us all together. Believe
Speaker 4: it or not, there was thirteen of us, and she
Speaker 4: was so strong. She went on about giving us away
Speaker 4: at weddings, showing up to high school graduation. She showed
Speaker 4: up to my son's middle school graduation. She was everywhere.
Speaker 4: Anytime there was a picnic, she was there. She arranged
Speaker 4: family reunions, She was the matriarch. She became the leader
Speaker 4: of our family, the Macaulay family, after all the other
Speaker 4: adults had passed on, had transitioned. So we felt it
Speaker 4: necessary because it was a lot going on in two
Speaker 4: thousand and five. When she passed, we were left out
Speaker 4: of a lot of any type of actual arrangements. We
Speaker 4: weren't taken into consideration the things she told us. This
Speaker 4: is what I wanted my funeral. I don't want people
Speaker 4: talking in me, you know. But the funeral was of
Speaker 4: epic proportions. I would say it was like seven and
Speaker 4: a half hours long, and every political figure you could
Speaker 4: imagine was there, and it was you know, it was
Speaker 4: okay because everyone wanted to pay their respects, you know.
Speaker 4: So I understood that. But then we decided to write.
Speaker 4: You know, it helped us to grieve, That's what it did.
Speaker 4: It was a grieving process. Our young people really need
Speaker 4: to know her, and so that's what I look at
Speaker 4: it as they need to know what a treasure she was.
Speaker 3: I was hoping if you could read from page twenty eight,
Speaker 3: you're talking about when your father died and like Auntie
Speaker 3: Rosa like stepping into that more parental figure cryay.
Speaker 4: It showed in the manner that she parented us naturally
Speaker 4: without having experienced parenthood for herself at all. Thinking about
Speaker 4: it now, we realize that nearly thirty years of bonding
Speaker 4: with Auntie Rosa after her brother passed was an extension
Speaker 4: of the bond she had first formed with him during
Speaker 4: their childhood. Her devotion to all of us grew from
Speaker 4: one of the most important relationships she had ever had.
Speaker 4: Oh that was something to read. I forgot about that one.
Speaker 4: When father died of stomach cancer in nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 4: Auntie Rosa said she would always be grateful to our
Speaker 4: mother because she was by father's side every day. We
Speaker 4: had never seen Auntie Rosa cry until she spoke at
Speaker 4: his funeral. Auntie Rosa probably never expected brother to be
Speaker 4: the first of them to die. Some of us were
Speaker 4: still teenagers, and she seemed to feel responsible for us
Speaker 4: even more after he was gone. It showed in so
Speaker 4: many of the ways that she became a bigger presence
Speaker 4: in our lives.
Speaker 3: It's a really beautiful tribute, and reading it, I was like, Wow,
Speaker 3: everyone should do this for their family member because it's
Speaker 3: such a rich text. It's a document that would be
Speaker 3: very hard to get otherwise. It's really touching seeing you
Speaker 3: and Rhea write that about Missus Parks and her stepping
Speaker 3: up to be that figure for y'all when your father died,
Speaker 3: and it was nice to hear about y'all living in
Speaker 3: the house together and just be a really tight knit
Speaker 3: community and tight knit family. Did you discover anything new
Speaker 3: about her while you were writing this book.
Speaker 4: The only thing I discovered was what deep love she
Speaker 4: had for her husband and the love letters that they
Speaker 4: had written back and forth to each other. I discovered that,
Speaker 4: and I said, while she was a human, you know,
Speaker 4: because I always saw she walked on water and she
Speaker 4: floated through the room, and she was Auntie Rosa. The
Speaker 4: thing that I learned more about her personal side with
Speaker 4: her own husband uncle Parks was a great guy. He's
Speaker 4: a great, great person. He was a sweet man. So
Speaker 4: that when I learned that about how they really did
Speaker 4: love each other. They wrote those love letters back and forth,
Speaker 4: I was like, whoa they they were really married. I'm
Speaker 4: so silly. I was just a kid, and I didn't
Speaker 4: really know they had she she really had a life
Speaker 4: with this man. And I did see her her voice
Speaker 4: wavered when she called my mother and said Park said died.
Speaker 4: She told called my mother and said Parks pasted the day,
Speaker 4: and her voice shook. I was like, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 4: you know, and I found that she had feelings, and
Speaker 4: I thought, you know, she was rough and tough. She
Speaker 4: rosa Parks. She got the powerful fists up and stuff.
Speaker 4: She was a beautiful lady. That's what she was, beautiful
Speaker 4: lady of faith. So I just found out more on
Speaker 4: the personal side, she was just like everybody else. I
Speaker 4: really wish I think I would have treated her differently.
Speaker 4: I treated her like Auntie Rosa. I think I would
Speaker 4: have tried to have more open conversations with her. But
Speaker 4: my aunt was like this. I wasn't her contemporary, I
Speaker 4: wasn't her age, so she was never going to speak
Speaker 4: to me the way that she would speak to my father,
Speaker 4: for instance. So my mother, they were her contemporaries, not me.
Speaker 4: I was a little girl. I would never be on
Speaker 4: that level for her to speak to me about any
Speaker 4: thing that was going on with her, you know, anything personal.
Speaker 4: I wasn't the one, so I don't think any of
Speaker 4: her nieces and nephews were. And this is how Auntie
Speaker 4: Rosa was. If you had wanted to ask her a question,
Speaker 4: you could ask her the question. But if you never
Speaker 4: asked her, she was volunteering no information. She was not
Speaker 4: messy boots.
Speaker 3: I think it's funny already say like she wouldn't speak
Speaker 3: to her nieces and nephews like in that gossip you way,
Speaker 3: and in the book you and your brothers and sisters
Speaker 3: kind of talk about how she didn't really like speaking
Speaker 3: about the incident on the bus. Do you wish she
Speaker 3: would have spoken about her role in the civil rights
Speaker 3: movement more? And could you give us your recollection of
Speaker 3: that bus incident? How she did tell y'all about it.
Speaker 4: She told my sister Shirley about it because my Shirley
Speaker 4: was writing a paper. My sister Shirley, she was writing
Speaker 4: a paper at school and she asked her about it.
Speaker 4: I never asked her, Hey, what happened on that bus.
Speaker 4: But when she told my sister what happened, it was
Speaker 4: different from what the media was portraying. And my sister asked, well,
Speaker 4: why didn't you ever say anything. She said, well, I
Speaker 4: knew what happened. I just ran with that narrative, and
Speaker 4: that was what they wanted to portray, that the bus
Speaker 4: was crowded, and it wasn't you know. It was a
Speaker 4: lot of things, a lot of tensions and in the South.
Speaker 4: But she had said that it's this bus driver. He
Speaker 4: knew she worked for the NAACP, and he was just
Speaker 4: a meano, nasty bus driver and he would have all
Speaker 4: the color people they called him. At the time. We
Speaker 4: were colored, we would go to the front, pay your fare,
Speaker 4: and then get off and go to the back to
Speaker 4: get on. When Auntie Rosa would do that, he would
Speaker 4: just pull off and leave. So he had an attitude
Speaker 4: towards her anyway. He didn't like nobody that was colored.
Speaker 4: He just hated them. And he told her to move
Speaker 4: when she really didn't have to get up and move,
Speaker 4: and the other colored people on the bus did get up.
Speaker 4: I think two other people did, and she just said, no,
Speaker 4: it's plenty of spase, I'm not doing that. And uh,
Speaker 4: he said, well, I'm gonna call the police. She said, okay,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, what what the heck? But she had been
Speaker 4: training for this day. This day was gonna come. It
Speaker 4: came from many other people before, and some of them
Speaker 4: they took away and you never saw him again. I
Speaker 4: think Claude Covin. They took her away and she lived.
Speaker 4: I think she was a teenager when they took her away.
Speaker 4: She wouldn't move. There were other people that did the
Speaker 4: same thing Auntie Rosa did, but they were NAACP was
Speaker 4: looking for somebody that will be I think acceptable by
Speaker 4: the country, and Auntie Rosa, though had been training for this,
Speaker 4: she just didn't say, hey, I'm not moving today. She
Speaker 4: had actually trained to do what she did, and she
Speaker 4: just said I'm not doing it because she had had enough.
Speaker 4: So people didn't know back in those days or even now,
Speaker 4: that could get you your head blown off, and so
Speaker 4: the amount of courage it took for her to say no,
Speaker 4: I'm not doing it, it took a lot because he
Speaker 4: could have just drew his gun and shot her, and
Speaker 4: that would have been the end of her. They want
Speaker 4: you to comply, comply, do what I say, do what
Speaker 4: I say, like get out here. You're a human just
Speaker 4: like me, how to do what you say? I was
Speaker 4: glad that she did that because it changed our world.
Speaker 4: It changed the world we live in and the whole planet.
Speaker 4: It changed everything the way people believe they ought not
Speaker 4: be treated and they stand up. And that's what we
Speaker 4: need more of today. We need people to stand up
Speaker 4: and say no, We're not taking this anymore.
Speaker 1: And do you think thats not talking to y'all until
Speaker 1: you specifically asked her questions about things, do you think
Speaker 1: that that was part of her personality or do you
Speaker 1: think any part of that came from her doing movement
Speaker 1: work and knowing that certain things had to stay close
Speaker 1: to the chest.
Speaker 4: She was very stealthy, I'll tell you that. And because
Speaker 4: they would have these secret meetings and she would not
Speaker 4: tell people anything. And my parents they did the same thing,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, what are they doing. I think that
Speaker 4: the adults in our family did not include us kids
Speaker 4: and a lot of that business, and I think it
Speaker 4: was a form of protecting us. And also I think
Speaker 4: Auntie Rosa she did a lot of investigative work about
Speaker 4: some of the women down in Montgomery that were raped attacked,
Speaker 4: and she would you get all this information, and she
Speaker 4: knew who to talk to and who not to talk
Speaker 4: to you about what she found out. And I think
Speaker 4: that helped her to stay alive, you know, because if
Speaker 4: you told them wrong person and they went running back,
Speaker 4: it's just, you know, too much chatter. So she I
Speaker 4: think learned by habit doing that, not volunteering any information
Speaker 4: it wasn't necessary.
Speaker 3: I heard that Auntie Rosa was a great cook, and
Speaker 3: I was wondering, what your favorite recipe she made it.
Speaker 4: I just did a interview with somebody about It was
Speaker 4: some kind of pancakes, the peanut butter featherlight pancakes. It
Speaker 4: was a recipe she had written down on the bag.
Speaker 4: And the lady called me because she made those pancakes
Speaker 4: and they were so good. Those weren't good pancakes, the
Speaker 4: peanut butter feather lights, and you had to cook them
Speaker 4: really slow or they would burn. And Auntie Rosa would
Speaker 4: take notes, like when she was writing up her little recipe,
Speaker 4: she would take notes if you turned the heat up
Speaker 4: too high and she would write that down. It will burn.
Speaker 4: Don't we turned it up? So she tell you, but
Speaker 4: a pinch of salt, a little dash of sugar, whatever,
Speaker 4: it's Southern way of cookie. They knew what a pinch was.
Speaker 4: I still don't know. Offer the whole box of salt
Speaker 4: and be making a miss. But she said a pitch.
Speaker 4: She meant the pitch to season. And those pancakes are good.
Speaker 1: Those are the kinds of things that people would never
Speaker 1: know or never think about when they think about your
Speaker 1: auntie Rosa. It's like we have this really a lot
Speaker 1: of the times, we have so many misconceptions and all
Speaker 1: this misinformation about people who become larger than life in
Speaker 1: people's minds who didn't know Rosa Parks. And this happens
Speaker 1: with so many civil rights leaders that live in so
Speaker 1: many people's minds, as these figures that we see on
Speaker 1: television all the time and we hear their quotes, but
Speaker 1: we don't fully know the real them. So it's really
Speaker 1: nice to hear those parts of them that really bring
Speaker 1: more of their humanity in. But I do think because
Speaker 1: we don't know their full selves, there are so many
Speaker 1: times when we used their names in ways that for instance,
Speaker 1: in media and in storytelling, there are so many times
Speaker 1: that Rosa Parks's name has been used where they co
Speaker 1: opt her legacy to tell their stories. So I was
Speaker 1: wondering if you or your family ever think about or
Speaker 1: have ever thought about the ways that people used their
Speaker 1: auntie's name and film in ways that have to do
Speaker 1: with the ways that they think about your auntie's legacy.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and also in real life, movies are make believe.
Speaker 4: On heard many times where I think it was something
Speaker 4: in barbershop Rose Parts ain't doing nothing, you know, just
Speaker 4: ran off. And then I've worked with people that even
Speaker 4: said to me it didn't know I was related to
Speaker 4: Rose parents. Oh, Rosea pars ain't doing nothing. She didn't
Speaker 4: do nothing. I was like, well, the thing that she did, whatever,
Speaker 4: her nothing, is allowing you to sit exactly where you are.
Speaker 4: And I don't see a white's only sign, you know,
Speaker 4: in any restaurant now, So what do you mean she
Speaker 4: didn't do nothing? She affected a change that you didn't
Speaker 4: or nobody that you know did. So when people say that,
Speaker 4: it doesn't offend me because I know movies are make believe.
Speaker 4: Even Tyler Perry when he used Auntie Bros's name, it
Speaker 4: was comedy comedy. It was funny, and I laughed at
Speaker 4: it because it was funny. I don't take offense, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't take offense to these scenes because I know
Speaker 4: a movie is made to affect some type of emotion
Speaker 4: in you, and basically Tyler Perry just made me laugh.
Speaker 4: But I think the Barbershop movie, a few people got
Speaker 4: mad about that, but it's okay, it's a movie. What
Speaker 4: the heck. They don't know her, They didn't know her.
Speaker 4: They you know, everything she did was for them, everything
Speaker 4: for the people making the movie, everything she did, and
Speaker 4: they know that. In real life, I think she did
Speaker 4: something that moved the whole world.
Speaker 1: But I think that'll also be part of what your
Speaker 1: book helps with it being a teaching tool, like you said,
Speaker 1: of people being able to see a fuller version of
Speaker 1: who she actually was and what her character was.
Speaker 4: Like this book, you know, I could give this to
Speaker 4: my grandkids. What happened when my children got a chance
Speaker 4: to know her because my mother and my father had passed,
Speaker 4: So my two sons, they held her hand, they sat
Speaker 4: with her, they got a chance to know her. But
Speaker 4: then my grandkids didn't. So then my sons tell his
Speaker 4: son's stories about her, and all I offer is the book.
Speaker 4: We can always open that and we can go to
Speaker 4: you know, certain sections to see what she would do
Speaker 4: if this or that came up. There's an answer or
Speaker 4: you know, some type of remedy that she would give us.
Speaker 1: How do you think your Auntie Rosa would have felt
Speaker 1: about the book if she read it?
Speaker 4: Well, what's not to like? I think she would like
Speaker 4: it because it was well thought out, it was a heartfelt,
Speaker 4: so I think she would like it. School children could
Speaker 4: even read it and take from it write a report
Speaker 4: if they want, and I think she would have liked
Speaker 4: that idea of it being an educational tool. If need me.
Speaker 3: Now it's time for roll credits, the segment where we
Speaker 3: give credit to a person, place, or thing that we
Speaker 3: encountered during the week, and we have our guests, Miss
Speaker 3: Sheila joining us. But first, Eves, who are what would
Speaker 3: you like to give credit to?
Speaker 1: I like to give credit to Misch Sheila and all
Speaker 1: of your family members that wrote this book and that
Speaker 1: we're willing to share their memories of Rosa Parks because
Speaker 1: without y'all, we wouldn't know any of this, and I
Speaker 1: think it's just incredibly enlightening to have this information. It
Speaker 1: helps me understand people and history that are very important
Speaker 1: to us, that pave the way for us to literally
Speaker 1: exist in this country. To know those things about them
Speaker 1: is a blessing, It's a privileg and I would just
Speaker 1: like to give credit to y'all because I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 3: How about you, Miss Sheila, Who or what would you
Speaker 3: like to give credit to?
Speaker 4: I would like to give credit to young man for
Speaker 4: bringing the descendants together in Washington, DC. His name is
Speaker 4: Joshua Jordanson, and he came up with this idea back
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen to bring all the descendants together because
Speaker 4: without the descendants, without the ancestors, rather, we just wouldn't
Speaker 4: be here without Harriet Tubman. For sure, a lot of
Speaker 4: us wouldn't be here without my Auntie Rosa. You know,
Speaker 4: a lot of us wouldn't be here. So I'm giving
Speaker 4: credit to him this week for pulling together Frederick Douglas,
Speaker 4: Ida b Wells, Martin, Luther King, Malcolm X. A lot
Speaker 4: of the descendants came together and met, shook hands and
Speaker 4: hug and fellowship. And I thought that was really a
Speaker 4: cool thing because now we can forge something out of that.
Speaker 4: We're going to push forward for our communities, and that
Speaker 4: brought about some ideas for our heads. So I thought
Speaker 4: that was the coolest thing. So I'm thankful for that
Speaker 4: person for coming up with that idea.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's very powerful. I'm I'm super excited to see
Speaker 3: what comes out of it, and I'm looking forward to
Speaker 3: y'all for y'all to have that experience every year. Because
Speaker 3: he said y'all are thinking about doing it and laid
Speaker 3: out I think that would be really cool. I would
Speaker 3: like to give credit to breaking the rules, and obviously
Speaker 3: that's inspired by Rosa Parks. But as Michila said, we
Speaker 3: should take some of the lessons that we learned from
Speaker 3: our ancestors like Rosa Parks and apply them today. And
Speaker 3: today we're seeing a lot of strange things going on
Speaker 3: and a lot of rules that just don't make sense.
Speaker 3: And we know they don't make sense. They are insulting
Speaker 3: to our common sense. Yet a lot of times, just
Speaker 3: because it is a rule, we decide to follow it.
Speaker 3: So I want to encourage people, if it is a
Speaker 3: stupid rule, do not follow it and make it known
Speaker 3: that you're not about that. You're not going to just
Speaker 3: go with whatever someone says especially when they mean you
Speaker 3: know good, I'm gonna give credit to breaking the rules.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Mischila for joining us. You will and
Speaker 3: we will see y'all next week.
Speaker 1: Bye on Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather
Speaker 1: Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and
Speaker 1: Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
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