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Speaker 1: This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for

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Speaker 1: all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like substance abuse,

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Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts, childhood, sexual abuse, and sexual assault. Please take care.

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Speaker 1: Last time on Crumbs, I ended the season story with

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Speaker 1: step twelve service, But like in previous seasons, I want

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Speaker 1: to give you just a little bit more so today

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Speaker 1: Episode thirteen a bonus episode. Like I've said over the

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Speaker 1: course of the season, everyone's recovery journey is different, but

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Speaker 1: there's also things that connect us, and coming together to

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Speaker 1: talk about our differences and similarities is a really beautiful,

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Speaker 1: powerful thing. So I've invited a guest to join me

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Speaker 1: in the studio. John Hill is an amazing stage actor

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Speaker 1: and TV producer. You might know him from the original

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Speaker 1: cast of Hairspray or Bear a Pop Opera, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you know one of his many shows Project Runway or

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Speaker 1: watch What Happens Live. He's managed to fit us into

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Speaker 1: his busy schedule since he's also on a national tour

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Speaker 1: with his original stand up comedy musical Wellness Check with

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Speaker 1: John Hill, and he's a podcast pro. He co hosts

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Speaker 1: Andy Cohen Live and hosts The John Haill Show. He's

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Speaker 1: also a member of a top step recovery program, so

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Speaker 1: he's a dream guest for me.

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Speaker 2: Hi, John, Hi, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really excited because I get to have an

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Speaker 1: honest conversation with you about something that we have in

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Speaker 1: common and that ties to the season's theme, which is recovery.

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Speaker 1: When the idea came up to having someone come and

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Speaker 1: be a guest, I thought of you because well, A,

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Speaker 1: you're a natural at this, you're a pro, and B

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Speaker 1: we have that common bond of recovery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we have a lot in common.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're both members of the queer community, and

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Speaker 3: I love meeting other people who are sober. It's funny

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Speaker 3: when you do a gig with someone or in appearance

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Speaker 3: and you don't know anything about anybody, and then at

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Speaker 3: some point you kind of click and like, oh, we're

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Speaker 3: both in recovery. It's it's such a relief to know

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Speaker 3: there's someone in close proximity to you that if the

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Speaker 3: shit hits the fan, you could say, okay, girl, no.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. There's something that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who are not in the program don't understand that there's

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Speaker 1: something this like voodoo magic shit that happens with like

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Speaker 1: one person in recovery speaking to another person in recovery.

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Speaker 1: It's something that I've struggled to describe in the season.

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Speaker 1: But you know what I'm talking.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to describe because you also don't want to

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Speaker 3: sound like you're telling the rest of the world. You know,

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Speaker 3: it seems like you have a secret language or something

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Speaker 3: and it's accessible to everyone. But it is true. We

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Speaker 3: have a shorthand you know, we have the same spiritual program.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear more about your recovery journey, if

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Speaker 1: you're open and willing to coss that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I first started, oh gosh, how much time do

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Speaker 3: we have. Let's see, it took me a long time

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Speaker 3: to get sober. I knew I needed to get sober,

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Speaker 3: but it took me a really long time. I just

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Speaker 3: knew from the minute I started using and drinking that

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Speaker 3: substances don't work with me. I want all of it,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you have a joint else, I want

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Speaker 3: the entire thing to myself saying yeah, it's so crazy right,

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Speaker 3: like and even now, like I do the same thing

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Speaker 3: with I'm the same way still, and even with like

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Speaker 3: dryer sheets or moisturizer. It's like, well, I'll take another,

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Speaker 3: just another pump. That's just the way we're wired. But

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and four, that's when I first kind

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Speaker 3: of went to a meeting, started just kind of talking

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Speaker 3: to a couple of people. I didn't have an issue

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Speaker 3: with admitting I had a problem. I knew that I did.

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Speaker 3: I didn't take to it for a while, and then

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Speaker 3: in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, I went to treatment for

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Speaker 3: the first time. So between twenty four and twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 3: I mean you can imagine I grew up in a

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Speaker 3: really religious environment, a really strict religious Christian household, fundamental

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Speaker 3: like white conservative Texas, you know, just very stereotypical. For

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Speaker 3: all the time we spent to church all the hours,

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Speaker 3: all the I mean every single three times a week

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Speaker 3: for eighteen years. In all of that time, I never

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Speaker 3: got functional tools for how to be a human being.

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Speaker 2: Was it was almost, in a way, the opposite of.

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Speaker 3: What we do in recovery, I think, which was all

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Speaker 3: that honesty now, but before it was about tell whatever lie.

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Speaker 3: You need to keep appearances up right.

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Speaker 1: And that's something that I've also talked about throughout other

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Speaker 1: seasons with my grandmother, who was pivotal in raising me.

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Speaker 1: She was about keeping appearances, and you know, she went

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Speaker 1: to prison for working with the Mexican drug cartel, and

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Speaker 1: so that must have been very devastating for her to

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Speaker 1: have that image of her just tarnished. Right, But I

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Speaker 1: grew up with those ideologies of like, you present one

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Speaker 1: way and you don't talk about what happens, and fucked

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Speaker 1: with me in my head so much.

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Speaker 3: It's a perfect storm for an addict because you now

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Speaker 3: have a big secret you need to keep secret. So

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Speaker 3: living a double life or lying about the truth was

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Speaker 3: so easy for me. When I ended up being in

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Speaker 3: my disease and using and drinking, it was so it

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Speaker 3: was just second nature for me to lie about it

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Speaker 3: and definitely would never want to ask for help.

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Speaker 2: So I coped with drugs. I coped with pills.

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Speaker 3: It was so easy to take a pill if I

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Speaker 3: was stressed out about something or afraid of something, it

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Speaker 3: just immediately took it away.

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Speaker 2: It was great.

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Speaker 3: I had an aunt who passed away from this disease

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Speaker 3: in a treatment center from a seizure come off of benzos,

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Speaker 3: and I'll come back to that. But that was the

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Speaker 3: only red flag in my mind. But no one ever

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Speaker 3: talked about it. No one will admit that she had

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Speaker 3: a problem with pills, even though again she died in

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Speaker 3: a treatment center withdrawing benzos. But I became a pill

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Speaker 3: popper and yeah, a big opiate head, and I did

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Speaker 3: have kind of like an epic rock bottom moment. It

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Speaker 3: was unavoidable, and my friends and family had to intervene.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to tell you about that, yes, please please.

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Speaker 3: At the time, I lived on the Upper West Side

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Speaker 3: of New York. I was making a lot of money

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Speaker 3: and I had a really nice apartment. But it had

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Speaker 3: gotten to the point where I was quote unquote sober.

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Speaker 3: I was performing the role of a sober person. I

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Speaker 3: was bragging about I'm sober, but totally using you know,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know. I couldn't be honest with myself, so

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Speaker 3: I was just kind of externally acting sober to people

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Speaker 3: and talking about.

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Speaker 2: It a lot. But I was at the worst of

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Speaker 2: the worst addiction.

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Speaker 3: I was wearing fentanyl patches and I would put them

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Speaker 3: on and just walk around New York for like days

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Speaker 3: at a time. I would fall asleep while I was

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Speaker 3: walking and people would I remember someone stopping me and

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Speaker 3: saying Hey, you're asleep and you're walking and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I know, and I just it was crazy. So I

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Speaker 3: had this really nice apartment and money and I had

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Speaker 3: a good job. But my apartment, I didn't even have

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Speaker 3: a mattress. I had an air mattress. I didn't have

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Speaker 3: Wi Fi. I just used my hotspot to sign on

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Speaker 3: for my laptop so I could watch Avatar every single night.

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Speaker 2: For some reason, that's what I wanted to watch. This

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Speaker 2: is twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 3: And then I didn't have a shower curtain, I didn't

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Speaker 3: really have furniture. It just was It's a good metaphor

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Speaker 3: for what was happening. It was just kind of this

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Speaker 3: empty flophouse, but a really nice apartment didn't match the

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Speaker 3: exterior of what I was presenting to the world.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's how as addicts liant. That's the reality. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's to me, so I get it.

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Speaker 3: But I had an ex boyfriend who wrote a book

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Speaker 3: and I was house sitting for him and he said, listen,

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Speaker 3: the book is coming.

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Speaker 2: Out tomorrow and I want you to read it. You're

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Speaker 2: in it.

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Speaker 3: And so there's a manuscript on the bar. So I

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Speaker 3: went there and I picked up the book and I

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Speaker 3: was trying. I was in that phase of trying to

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Speaker 3: be sober, you know. I would get a couple of

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Speaker 3: days maybe, and just kind of always got sucked back in.

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Speaker 2: It's so cyclical. I read.

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Speaker 3: I flipped through the book, and I remember it was

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Speaker 3: all such really nice stuff. It was really nice mentions,

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Speaker 3: and it was talking about me. It was a kind

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Speaker 3: of a The book was about the previous year, and

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Speaker 3: it was all these things that had happened, and his

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Speaker 3: perception of everything was really great. And I just kept thinking,

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Speaker 3: this is not how my life actually is. And it

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Speaker 3: made me feel It just made me feel too many feelings.

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Speaker 3: So I started to drink. You know, I was at

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Speaker 3: the bar at his house anyway, So I started drinking tequila,

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Speaker 3: and then I found some joints, smoked those. I found

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Speaker 3: some ecstasy pills, took all of them, and then I

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Speaker 3: found some ambient took all of those. And then I

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Speaker 3: got locked out of the apartment in my underwear, running

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Speaker 3: up and down.

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Speaker 2: The halls because I could.

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Speaker 3: I was out of my mind and trying to open

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Speaker 3: what I thought was his door, but it was just

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Speaker 3: random people's stores, and they were scared.

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Speaker 1: This is four in the morning because I've done that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we lose our minds.

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Speaker 2: It's awful.

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Speaker 3: And I came to in the basement and they had

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Speaker 3: given me some pants from the Lost and Found and

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Speaker 3: they were like, we are on the phone with your

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Speaker 3: friend whose house you're supposed to be staying in, and

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Speaker 3: we're asking him if we should call the cops or not.

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Speaker 3: Luckily he said no, I'll send another friend over. Friend

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Speaker 3: came and got me. I went home and I tripped

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Speaker 3: balls for like four more days, just kind of coming

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Speaker 3: down from that. I thought I was locked out of

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Speaker 3: my apartment, and so I sat outside and I saw

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Speaker 3: crazy things. I put a ladder up to the window.

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Speaker 3: I broke into my apartment, only to find the key

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Speaker 3: was in my pocket. The whole time, just the mess

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Speaker 3: of what we go through. And then when the air

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Speaker 3: kind of cleared, my friend called and I went down there,

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Speaker 3: you know, to the house to kind of say, you know, sorry,

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Speaker 3: and friends and family were there and they said, what's happening.

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Speaker 3: It was an intervention. There was an interventionist there was

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Speaker 3: I knew this, like tall guy. I was like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I've seen an intervention. I know the show. I know

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Speaker 3: how it works. You're friends and family there and some

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Speaker 3: random tall guy like, this is rehab. And I was

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Speaker 3: so ready to go because I had been googling for

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Speaker 3: weeks leading up to it, where's my life going to go?

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Speaker 3: Because I was going to get evicted too, Like I

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Speaker 3: wasn't paying any bills, so I was like looking for

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Speaker 3: where could I go if I get evicted? Do I

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Speaker 3: go to a motel for the night? It was crazy,

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Speaker 3: so and then I would google what about re have?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, I can never afford that. So

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Speaker 3: when they said, we have been talking about this, we

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Speaker 3: have a solution for you if you want to go,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, let's go to night, honey.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to go back to that crappy you know,

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Speaker 3: air mattress. Let's go, Let's go to a rehab. And

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what to expect, but I did go.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be done. That's I think the biggest

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Speaker 3: thing I wanted to be. I was sick of using

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Speaker 3: and drinking. I was really tired of it. And I

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Speaker 3: was old, you were young when you got sober. I

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Speaker 3: was like thirty six at this point.

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Speaker 1: I talk a lot about character defects in season three

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Speaker 1: and how for me lying was a big one because

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Speaker 1: I had to lie to cover up for my mom.

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Speaker 1: I had to lie to cover up for being different,

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Speaker 1: and that was kind of hard to do because I

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Speaker 1: was very slumboyant and very It was very obvious that

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Speaker 1: I was like other too that was different, and so

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Speaker 1: I was a very easy target.

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Speaker 3: I had the same experience I was. I knew from

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Speaker 3: a really early age that I was gay. I didn't

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Speaker 3: really understand what gay sexually meant, but I knew I

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Speaker 3: was gay. I did play with trucks and stuff, but

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Speaker 3: I was at night. I would sneak my sister's Barbie

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Speaker 3: dolls and do their hair, and I was very happy,

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Speaker 3: you know. I didn't know until you know, middle school

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Speaker 3: or something, how to keep that under wraps. So I

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Speaker 3: knew pretty early. There was never I wasn't like I

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Speaker 3: was young. I was really young. I knew I liked boys,

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Speaker 3: and I just knew I was different. But the greatest gift,

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Speaker 3: one of the greatest gifts of my life, is that

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Speaker 3: I never felt I never hated myself for it. I

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Speaker 3: understood I hadn't understand it, even though I was in

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Speaker 3: a environment that not only doesn't support anyone who is

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Speaker 3: other or you know, feminine or gay, you know, any

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Speaker 3: sort of.

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Speaker 2: Like other type of queer vibes.

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Speaker 3: You know, not only do they not support it, but

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Speaker 3: they want to, you know, punish you for it or

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Speaker 3: see you suffer or beat you up or hurt you.

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Speaker 3: So there's all this pressure that happens from a really

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Speaker 3: young age that's like okay for me to survive. And

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Speaker 3: I know you know this too, what do I have

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Speaker 3: to do? And like I was saying about growing up

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Speaker 3: in our household, it was just forced on us to, like,

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Speaker 3: whatever is going on that might be embarrassing, keep it

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Speaker 3: a secret. And that's the best way I can explain

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Speaker 3: to people who aren't in recovery why I think it

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Speaker 3: helps understand the cycle of being in addiction. Because lying

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Speaker 3: was second nature to me. So I had to lie

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Speaker 3: to survive. I didn't want people in school to know

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Speaker 3: I was gay, even though they all figured it out.

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Speaker 3: You know, everyone was calling me gay and f slur

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Speaker 3: all the time. So by the time I was an

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Speaker 3: adult and I was suffering and you know, on death's door,

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Speaker 3: and just like you know, from drugs, in my mind,

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Speaker 3: I knew I should have said. I could have said

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Speaker 3: to a friend, hey, I'm struggling, Can you help me?

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Speaker 3: But that was never an option.

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Speaker 1: Having listened to how you grew up, what was your

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Speaker 1: conception of a higher power when you got to the

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Speaker 1: rooms of recovery? And how did that change?

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Speaker 2: Oh man, it's so I'm still processing it. You know.

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Speaker 2: We grew up thinking that.

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Speaker 3: When I think back about growing up in the church,

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Speaker 3: it was that God was always going to be mad.

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Speaker 2: It didn't and he's always watching. So whatever you.

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Speaker 3: Did, we're always sinning. You were always sinning, and he

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Speaker 3: was going to be mad. You were always about to

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Speaker 3: get in trouble. I remember the feeling of always scared

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Speaker 3: that I was going to get in trouble. My parents

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Speaker 3: were very like, I won't stay boring. My parents were

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Speaker 3: very sweet people, but the fear was so strong. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what we were afraid of. No one was

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Speaker 3: beating us at home. We had like a very quiet home,

285
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Speaker 3: but we were It was almost like we were petrified

286
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Speaker 3: being abused at all times because we were told in

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Speaker 3: a Bible school how mad God was going to get

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Speaker 3: and how you're supposed to fear him. So it was

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Speaker 3: drilled into me for so long that you're going to

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Speaker 3: get in trouble. I love spirituality, I love praying, I

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Speaker 3: love meditating, I love all of that. So I like

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Speaker 3: that part of recovery and it was not hard for

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Speaker 3: me to grasp.

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Speaker 2: But what I had hatred and rage to.

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Speaker 3: That kind of God and that kind of idea of

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Speaker 3: a higher power that I'm going to get in trouble

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Speaker 3: for having the biological desire to have sex, Like the

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Speaker 3: worst offense you could have is to have like an

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Speaker 3: impure thought or whatever, masturbate or have sex, like you're

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Speaker 3: going to go to burn in hell. Return that I had,

301
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Speaker 3: I was excited to get into recovery because they say

302
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Speaker 3: it can be your own interpretation, your own understanding of

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Speaker 3: what a higher power is for yourself. And it was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I get to decide what I think about my own spirituality.

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Speaker 3: And that was when everything was kind of UNLIKEE because

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Speaker 3: I was like, there are no rules, there is no

307
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Speaker 3: person standing over you saying here's what you have to

308
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Speaker 3: believe in. If you don't, you're going to be in trouble.

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Speaker 3: So I just felt free. The irony is it looks

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Speaker 3: a lot like what my parents probably wanted it to

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Speaker 3: look like. I'm honest, I give things over to a

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Speaker 3: higher power. I talk to friends, I trust in a

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Speaker 3: higher power. I operate this way now. But it took

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Speaker 3: a lot to realize that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean my struggle was similar. We're a Catholic

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Speaker 1: and I was going to go to hell for being

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Speaker 1: different and I was going to be condemned and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. So, you know, I kind of picked it

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Speaker 1: apart when I got to the rooms of recovery and

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Speaker 1: said I like this, I'm taking this. Yeah, I'm leaving

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Speaker 1: that out. And it morphed over time into something else,

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Speaker 1: into what it is today.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really ironic though now.

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Speaker 3: I spent a lot of my time hating the religion

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Speaker 3: I was brought up, and hating my parents for bringing

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Speaker 3: us up in it, and hating the people that told

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Speaker 3: me I was going to burn in hell for just

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Speaker 3: for being gay. And I really had a lot of rage,

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Speaker 3: a lot. But it's ironic because of the foundation that

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Speaker 3: they gave us as kids, I'm able to now be

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Speaker 3: really grateful. I think it's a huge advantage because it's

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Speaker 3: never it's my first instinct to give something over to,

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Speaker 3: you know, not think that I have to solve things myself.

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Speaker 2: It's second nature to me. To think about things spiritually, and.

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Speaker 3: That's from this toxic way I was brought up, but

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00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 3: it has turned into something that I can be really

337
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Speaker 3: grateful for.

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Speaker 2: It's a big asset.

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Speaker 1: I never thought of it like that until right now

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Speaker 1: you're mentioning it.

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Speaker 3: So I mentioned that I went to rehab in twenty fourteen,

342
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Speaker 3: and I did get sober ish. I was about sober

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Speaker 3: for about nine months and then for sixty relapsed until

344
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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, which is when I went to treatment again.

345
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Speaker 3: But it's that time the difference in those that there

346
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Speaker 3: was no intervention. There was no one left to give

347
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Speaker 3: me an intervention.

348
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Speaker 2: I would have loved to have.

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Speaker 3: Another intervention, but everyone not that everyone had cut me off,

350
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,679
Speaker 3: but I had established by this point what I was

351
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Speaker 3: going to do and my behavior and what to expect

352
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 3: from me, which was a flake, a liar, full of shit,

353
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Speaker 3: doing too much, desperate that the.

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Speaker 1: People just gave up on you and said, ohow, just

355
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Speaker 1: you're gonna be how you're gonna be.

356
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Speaker 3: It made me sad when I would have friends who

357
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,119
Speaker 3: were still around and they were sweet to me, but

358
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 3: I could tell by their behavior that they expected nothing

359
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 3: from me, which was it broke my heart because I

360
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 3: wanted to be everyone's favorite friend. I wanted to be

361
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 3: the person they'd call it like they'd say, oh, we're

362
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,200
Speaker 3: going out of town where having so and so dogs

363
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 3: said like why do you call me to dog sit? Like, oh,

364
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 3: you know it's okay, And I'm like, oh right, I can't.

365
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 3: You can don't even trust me to can't be trust you?

366
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,439
Speaker 3: And that broke my heart. And that stuff started happening

367
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 3: a lot, like my best friend from college after a

368
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 3: few days when she could kind of tell, she would

369
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,400
Speaker 3: just know that I hadn't really eaten, and she would

370
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 3: show up My house was like a Ralph's bag of

371
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Speaker 3: ribs and she would kind of drop it off and

372
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 3: be like by, like not really that nice, but just

373
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Speaker 3: like I figured you had no sweet you know. And

374
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 3: but that broke my heart thinking about, oh she must

375
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 3: I'm taking up a lot of her time worrying about me.

376
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 3: Hair exactly hair. So things got really bad in the pandemic.

377
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 3: I was so addicted to xanax at this point, I

378
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 3: was a benzo monster. I was waking up and taking

379
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 3: bars and then I was going to the gym on

380
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 3: xanax like it made it gave me all this energy.

381
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 3: I had the opposite effect. It's like when people take

382
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 3: coke and they relax. I was that with benzos it

383
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 3: gave me energy. So I was taking like a hippopotamus amount,

384
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 3: like a rhinoceros king Kong amount of benzos and withdrawing

385
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 3: and then having life threatening seizures. Thinking back to my

386
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 3: aunt who died in treatment after having seizures from ben's

387
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 3: or withdrawal, so I knew this was going to end

388
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 3: in a grave.

389
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 2: So I thought I was going to have a heart attack.

390
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 2: One night because I had to run out of stuff.

391
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 3: I was like, I just want to go to the

392
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 3: emergency room because I don't want to have a seizure

393
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,120
Speaker 3: alone and die. I called the fire department and like, well,

394
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,679
Speaker 3: what's wrong with you? And I was like nothing, and

395
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 3: they were like, well, we can't take you the emergency

396
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 3: room for nothing. And he was like, are you in

397
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 3: danger of hurting yourself or someone else? And I was

398
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 3: like no. He's like, well then we can't take him.

399
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 3: I go no, I am, I mean, I am. He's

400
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 3: like what do you mean. I'm like, I'm going to

401
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 3: hurt myself and he's like and he didn't believe me

402
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 3: because I was lying and he was like, do you

403
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 3: have a weapon in mind? And like yes, He's like,

404
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 3: what is it. I'm like the butcher knife inm my kitchen.

405
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 3: I was gonna stab myself. And he was like, okay,

406
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 3: get on the truck and something took me in the

407
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 3: emergency room and he said to me, though, if you

408
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 3: get on this ambulance and you go to the emergency

409
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 3: room because you've said you're going to hurt yourself, you

410
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 3: will then be transferred.

411
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 2: To a psychic psych ward.

412
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, psych unit.

413
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 3: So I mean I was lying at that point too, saying,

414
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 3: oh no, I'm totally sober. I'm just having like a

415
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 3: night panic. I'm just having a panic attack. And they

416
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 3: were like okay. But they did transfer me to the

417
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 3: mental board in Downey, which was so bleak, so bleak,

418
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 3: and I remember and I had to work that day.

419
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 3: I had to email my work from the psych ward

420
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 3: and be like, I'm not feeling good. Meanwhile, I'm in

421
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: a gown, my ass is hanging out. So after that happened,

422
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 3: I went back and everything was so quiet. No one

423
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 3: was calling, no one was intervening, and every day I

424
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 3: was waking up thinking is this today? You change your

425
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 3: life is this today, you are honest with someone. So

426
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 3: a girl from high school who i'd known that was

427
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 3: ten years sober at that point. She was calling just

428
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 3: to say hi, and I was I normally would decline

429
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 3: the call because I don't I didn't want to talk

430
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 3: to anyone. I don't know what happened, but I answered.

431
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: She was like, how are you? And I said I'm

432
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 3: not good. I've been relapsing and I don't know what

433
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 3: to do, and she was like okay. And when she

434
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 3: didn't have a reaction, that freaked me out. It was

435
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: like the biggest sigh of relief because I was like, Oh,

436
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 3: why was I so afraid to say anything.

437
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 2: It's not a big deal. It's understandable.

438
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 3: And she was like, girl, it's the pandemic, like everyone's

439
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 3: going through it. That's not out of the realm of

440
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 3: Its not shocking that someone who has problems relapses in the.

441
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 2: Middle of a global pandemic. So she was like, well,

442
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: what do you want to do?

443
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 3: And I said, I just I need to go to

444
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 3: detox so they look after me so I don't have

445
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 3: a seizure, or if I do, they can protect me

446
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 3: so I'm not alone in thirty minutes, she had some

447
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 3: numbers and names and stuff. Then after that, I was like, okay,

448
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 3: I'm just going to I'm going to lean into being honest.

449
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 3: I'm just going to be blunt. So I called another friend.

450
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 3: I was like, girl, i've been on drugs. I'm relapsing.

451
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 3: And she was like, all right, you got this, what

452
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 3: do you want to do? And so the more I

453
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: did that, the more I got courage, and I took

454
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 3: myself to treatment. And it was the first time in

455
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: my life at this point I was forty three, the

456
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: first time in all these years and all these years

457
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 3: of trying to get sober, that I had a conversation

458
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 3: with myself that whole time, going to treatment, going to rehab,

459
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 3: trying to go to meetings telling everyone to work on sober.

460
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 3: I never had a conversation with myself ever I was.

461
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't have. I didn't know myself. I had no

462
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 3: connection to my heart, my soul, my spirit, nothing. So

463
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: in treatment, I had taken myself there because there was

464
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: no one left to drag me there. And that gave

465
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 3: me a tiny little spark, or that gave me the

466
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 3: tiniest shred of dignity to say Okay, well, even if

467
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: you die tomorrow, you did. You tried to do something

468
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 3: good for yourself, and that little thing grew every day

469
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 3: I would remind myself and then I would say, okay, well,

470
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 3: you're at the end. It feels like you're at the

471
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 3: end of your life, so why not just be honest

472
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 3: with yourself. And when those doors started opening in my

473
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: mind and my heart, when I started being honest with myself,

474
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: my life changed really fast, and I have stayed sober

475
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: ever since. We talk about a lot in recovery about

476
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 3: the things that will help you stay sober, and you

477
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 3: know service or you know having a sponsor doing the things,

478
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 3: and you know, whatever your program suggests. But the one

479
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 3: thing I never wanted to do was to make any friends.

480
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 3: I don't want to make friends in recovery. I don't

481
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 3: want anybody. The whole thing you get you you get recovering.

482
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: People want your phone number, they want to take you

483
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 3: to coffee, and I was like, hmm, nobody, no one's

484
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 3: getting close. I will show up to whatever event or

485
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 3: meeting and then I will GTFO and didn't stay sober,

486
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: and it's a pitfall in early sobriety. I think too

487
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 3: of course you think that you don't want to be

488
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 3: like these people the twelve step programs. A lot of times,

489
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 3: it's not It's not a collection of the people with

490
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: the most charming personalities.

491
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 2: Like it is a grab bag.

492
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: It is not wrong.

493
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: It's like I went through a.

494
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 3: Phase in early sobriety where I thought I would not

495
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: spit on these people if they were on fire.

496
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: I hate them. I hate them.

497
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: I was I like my second year, I was just

498
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: enraged anybody who would walk through the door, It's like,

499
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 3: fuck them. And then I had to tell a friend,

500
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, what is going on with me? Why am

501
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: I hating everyone? Just going through the room like as

502
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: people are sharing and thinking, Oh, I hate them for this,

503
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 3: I hate them for that. And he was like, yeah,

504
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: maybe you think about that. We need to start thinking

505
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: about it. And once I said it, I was like,

506
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I am so my disease is trying

507
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 3: to get me out of these meetings and it is

508
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: trying to get me alone.

509
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: And separate yourself from the Fellowship. You know, I talk

510
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: about this a lot in the season, how the Fellowship

511
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: was the first thing that I fell in love with

512
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: in the program because coming from where I came from.

513
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: This was a group of people that wanted to love

514
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: me and make me feel welcomed and nurture me, take

515
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: me out to coffee or whatever. They were genuinely interested

516
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: in how I was feeling, with no ulterior motives. I

517
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: had a sponsor who made me call five women a day,

518
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what the fuck why, Like they don't

519
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: want to hear but from me. I don't want to

520
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: hear from them. But it's because like now that when

521
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: shit hits a fan, it's so much easier to pick

522
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: up the phone and call someone and tell them that

523
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: your ass is falling off because you're in.

524
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: The habit of doing so.

525
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: Yep, And it all starts making sense when you start

526
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: seeing it from a different perspective.

527
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: When I had had COVID a few times now, and

528
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 3: it's like people in the program will say, can I

529
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: bring you over some food?

530
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 2: And was like, yeah, sure, drop it over.

531
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 3: Because people don't realize, but that's twenty five minutes of

532
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: a little sliver of serenity when you might be melting

533
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 3: down about something else and it gives you something to

534
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: do something for somebody else. It makes me feel so

535
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 3: much better. But before before I got so over, I

536
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: had nothing to be proud of. I had things on

537
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 3: paper that you could be proud of, but in my

538
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: heart of hearts, I was proud of nothing in my life.

539
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 3: So getting out of treatment and being able to do

540
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 3: what we call esteemable acts, you know, you toss those

541
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 3: out the window when you're using and drinking, like I

542
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: don't need to pick up my dog's shit, you know.

543
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: But then it was like, oh, I'm building a new life.

544
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 3: I'm the kind of person who, even if no one's looking,

545
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 3: picks up my dog shit. And those little things, even

546
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: though they were so small into normal people seem not

547
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: a big deal, were huge. It was like being, you know,

548
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 3: graduating college, like those things were huge for.

549
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: Me to feel proud of.

550
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 3: We look back on our childhood and think, where were

551
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 3: the signs do I have the ism?

552
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: Where's it always there?

553
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 3: And for me, the first time I remember it being

554
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: an issue was with video games. It was Nintendo Super

555
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: Mario Brothers and I would play it before class, before school,

556
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 3: like elementary school, fifth grade maybe, and I didn't even

557
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 3: realize it was happening. But my parents sat me down

558
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: and they were like, we're taking this away from you.

559
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: And I said why and they said, because you're getting

560
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 3: so worked up and you can't stop.

561
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: So this is before school. So I was playing in them.

562
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 3: I would wake up and the first thing I wanted

563
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 3: was to go to that Nintendo. I would go and

564
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 3: I would play, and I would die. I need another life,

565
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 3: I would die. I need another life, one more if

566
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: I get if I do one more, I'll get a

567
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 3: better score.

568
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: And I the obsession. It was a fix and it.

569
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: Was nons There was no end in sight, and I

570
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: just needed, needed, needed, And they said, you know, you

571
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: can play after school, but you're not going to play

572
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: before school anwhere because you're getting so upset that you're

573
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: getting to school and you're aggressive and you're you're a

574
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: monster in class. And I was so angry. I was enrage.

575
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: They were taking away my drugs. Yeah, but that was

576
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: the first moment I thought, oh, I have a hard

577
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: time controlling my obsessions with things that behavioral.

578
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: And that was before I used a drink.

579
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 3: Obviously, I was only in fifth grade, but I knew

580
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: they were right and it was making my life unmanageable,

581
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 3: even at ten.

582
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: And I was like that with people too.

583
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 3: I would have like a little girlfriend or something, and

584
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: I could think or talk about nothing.

585
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: Else, and my mom would be like, why are you

586
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: so obsessed?

587
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: And that word obsession was like, that's kind of that

588
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: sounds dramatic, that sounds embarrassing. But I guess I am obsessed.

589
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 3: But that's always been the through line in my life.

590
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: And that's how I've been able to succeed at certain things,

591
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 3: because if I'm obsessed with something, great, I'd do it

592
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: really well. Twelve SEP programs work for me because I'm

593
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 3: so overwhelmed and chaotic in my mind.

594
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: Everything I will blow it out of proportion.

595
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: I'll think of the catastrophic anything it doesn't matter, you know,

596
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: like this iced coffee, I might choke on the ice

597
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: and then die. Like I'm always thinking of the worst

598
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 3: case scenario. It's just extreme. We live in extremes. That

599
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: what the twelve steps do for me is it simplifies

600
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: all of that. There's no need to really figure anything out.

601
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: There's nothing to figure out. You know exactly how to

602
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 3: handle things, and if you don't, you ask a friend

603
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: in the program. So it simplifies this chaotic mind. We

604
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: have chaotic minds that are capable of so much creativity

605
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: and productivity, and we're thinking we can think of great

606
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: things if our disease is managed. So for me, the

607
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: twelve steps simplifies. It's a guide for a design for living.

608
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: It's theoretically what we should have gotten growing up. And

609
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: again I respect everyone's religion, respect everyone's faith. But for me,

610
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: I grew up in everally toxic version of Christianity, and

611
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 3: in theory, the Bible was supposed to do all of that.

612
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: It was supposed to teach you a guideline for your life,

613
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: but it was not right for this. I didn't get

614
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: a lot of tools about how to be honest about

615
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: your life. No one in our like my parents, never

616
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: showed vulnerability that way of saying, like, you know what,

617
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: I have to be honest about something. I'm really struggling

618
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: with this. That was not an option. So even though

619
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 3: I knew in my head, like just tell a friend,

620
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 3: tell someone it was, it just wasn't in my mouth,

621
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: as I say, like, it wasn't modeled for me, and

622
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 3: it wasn't something I thought I could do, and it's

623
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: what I had done since I was a really young kid.

624
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: Just lie, keep the secret, don't be embarrassed, or you

625
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: don't want to feel embarrassed.

626
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: But in recovery is the only time in my.

627
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: Life I've been able to trust people because I could

628
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: just be honest.

629
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: It took me a while to grasp that because I

630
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: always felt like I was always alone, Yeah, my entire life.

631
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: So even now, like when I'm going through things like

632
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: or I'm feeling a certain type of way, like i

633
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: have to call and tell my people, like, hey, this

634
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: is happening so they can hold my hand through it.

635
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: It took me a long time to realize that this

636
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: was not a sign of weakness.

637
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: Because people worry about us.

638
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I put my family through a lot.

639
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: That was actually the way I finally was able to

640
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: make amends to my mom. And I loved listening to

641
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: you talk about that, but I didn't know the way

642
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: in to making an amends because it's complicated as it is.

643
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: You know, everyone's mom is complicated. But the way in

644
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: that was suggested to me by someone in the program

645
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 3: is like, you can easily apologize for causing her concern

646
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: or to cause her.

647
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 2: To worry about you.

648
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: And then I was like, okay, and that stuck in

649
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 3: the back of my head, and as she and I

650
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: began talking she brought up you know. I remember I

651
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: came and stayed with you in New York that one time,

652
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: and it was after I had had a seizure and

653
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 3: I was also relapsing.

654
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: It was just a mess.

655
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: And she's like, yeah, and you are getting up in

656
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: the middle of the night and doing weird things in

657
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: the case, and she's like, I cried all the way

658
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: back home to Texas.

659
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: And in that moment, I was.

660
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 3: Like, oh shit, wait, that's heartbreaking, for like, it doesn't

661
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: matter who your mom is, for a mom to see

662
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 3: her baby suffering, and and like her thoughts were like,

663
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: maybe I will never see him again.

664
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: Maybe the next time I see me in a casket.

665
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 3: I was like, bitch, I'm so sorry like that, and

666
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: that was so easy to say that. And once we

667
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 3: had that little dialogue, it grew and was wonderful.

668
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: But it's a conversation I never thought I would have.

669
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: John, if you could talk to the younger version of yourself,

670
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: what would you say?

671
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: I would say, don't overdo it on the botox. I

672
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: recently got botox to make me not frown, and I

673
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: hate it. I feel like my face is frozen.

674
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: Now. What I would say is it's so cliche.

675
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: But the message I would give to that person that

676
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: kid is to trust yourself and that I really just

677
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 3: wanted to approval from my family. I want to approve

678
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 3: from my church, and I want to approve from every

679
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 3: kid in school to not beat me up or something.

680
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 3: And none of that mattered, none of it. The only

681
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 3: voice that mattered was from people who love me and

682
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: my higher power in my heart and my gut. When

683
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 3: I got sober, it's almost like I got a gut

684
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: for the first time. My gut instincts about people are

685
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 3: always right in recovery now because there's nothing clouding it.

686
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: I feel like that was one of the biggest gifts

687
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 3: of sobrieties that I never really knew what people say,

688
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 3: trust your gut. I never knew what that meant until now.

689
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 3: But that's what the message would be, is that you

690
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: don't have to search too far for approval or for

691
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: an answer.

692
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: You know in your heart what to do and to

693
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: trust that.

694
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: Having you on this episode such a form of service

695
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: to me because you're helping me with certain things that

696
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm currently struggling with, and that little perspective shift that

697
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: you know sometimes I lose sight of because I'm in

698
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: the thick of like my thoughts or whatever.

699
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: That's what we do for each other.

700
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm so so grateful that you are being

701
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: of service to me, like in a way that you

702
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: have no idea.

703
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: Thank you.

704
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: This is an opportunity for me to be of service

705
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 3: and that's the most important thing. And maybe someone's listening,

706
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: you know, who is afraid to tell anybody that they're struggling.

707
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 3: And I remember when I called one of my coworkers

708
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: and I was like, I need to be honest. I

709
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 3: am going to go to treatment for months. You're not

710
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 3: going to see me. And she was like, I love you,

711
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,479
Speaker 3: I believe in you. And I was so embarrassed to call.

712
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 3: I was so scared to call. And there has never

713
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: been anyone I've been honest with about this who has said,

714
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 3: oh my god, just disgusting, or then no one's ever.

715
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 3: Everyone is always relieved also to know what's been going on.

716
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 3: And I know, personally, most of my life was spent

717
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 3: embarrassed and ashamed, So like, you don't need to feel

718
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 3: that way.

719
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: You know, they're they say in like the rooms of recovery, right,

720
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: we don't shoot are wounded, right, you you're willing like,

721
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: come on, let's go, let's do this.

722
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

723
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for coming on crumbs.

724
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm honored. Thank you, and.

725
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: Thank you listeners for joining me on this journey through

726
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: my addiction and my recovery, through the ups and dark downs.

727
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: The point of all of this, of sharing all the

728
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: details of my life, including my shortcomings and the lessons

729
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: I've learned, is to break stigma and give hope. It's

730
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: scary out there in the dark, and whether the person

731
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: having a hard time is you, someone you know, or

732
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: someone you love. I hope you know that there are

733
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: people out there like me who have been there and

734
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: who care, and that there's help and that there is light.

735
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: If you or someone you know is struggling, reach out

736
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: to someone. There's a lot of difficult subjects that we

737
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: cover in this show. If you are someone you know

738
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: needs help, you can reach the Substance Abuse and Mental

739
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: Health Services Hotline at twenty eight hundred sixty six y

740
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: two four three five seven. They'll connect you with information

741
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 1: and resources on treatment. There's also the National Suicide Prevention

742
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: Lifeline at twenty hundred two seven three tal K. Both

743
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: are available twenty four to seven. You don't have to

744
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: be in crisis to reach out either. They're available to

745
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: anyone who needs help. You can also reach the National

746
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: Sexual Assault Hotline twenty four to seven at one eight

747
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: hundred six five six four six seven three. Crumbs is

748
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: a Sonoro production in partnership with Iheartsmikultura Network and Trojan

749
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: Horse Media. It's produced by Margaret Catcher and Patimei Ragunav

750
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: and edited by Rodrigo Crespo. Original music by D. Peter

751
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: Schmidt and engineering by Manuel Barra. Studio, Recording by JTV

752
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: Recording and Podcasting Studio. Executive produced by conro Byrne and

753
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: jessav And says for iHeart, Alex Filmeto, Elizabeth Schuzzo and

754
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: Margaret Catcher for Trojan Horse, Camille Vittriano, Joshua Weinstein for Sonoro,

755
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: and me Emmio lea special things to Mariana Coronella. Iire

756
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,919
Speaker 1: listen to Crumbs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

757
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.

758
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: A band