Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a.
Speaker 1: Bride egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida
Speaker 1: Egg brid Egg Frida Egg bride Egg Lie, I'm about
Speaker 1: ready to run off of the hump course GAG. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the fridaygg Golf Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison, and today,
Speaker 1: for the third installment of our Great Courses series, we're
Speaker 1: discussing the old course at Sunningdale Golf Club, which is
Speaker 1: about an hour southwest of London, England. It was designed
Speaker 1: by Willie Park Junior and it opened in nineteen oh one,
Speaker 1: after which it was extensively revised by Harry Colt, and
Speaker 1: according to my guest today, it might be the most
Speaker 1: important course in the history of modern golf architecture. That
Speaker 1: guest is Adam Lawrence. Adam is the editor of Golf
Speaker 1: Course Architecture magazine and the author of an upcoming biography
Speaker 1: of Harry Colt. For this episode, I've decided to do
Speaker 1: a somewhat extended introduction because I just have some thoughts
Speaker 1: on Sunningdale and its era and this general subject in
Speaker 1: golf architecture that I've been wanting to sort through and
Speaker 1: get out there. So that's coming up along with my
Speaker 1: interview with Adam Lawrence. But first, a quick word from
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Speaker 1: all right. So let's talk a little bit about Sunningdale
Speaker 1: and why I think it's such an important course and
Speaker 1: why I find its whole time in golf architecture that
Speaker 1: first decade of the twentieth century to be so interesting.
Speaker 1: So if you can picture this, I just got home
Speaker 1: from visiting family for Christmas, and it's twenty sixth right now,
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry to record this, and I have my
Speaker 1: notes in front of me. You might hear some wrestling
Speaker 1: of paper because I actually wrote them on the plane
Speaker 1: flight back here. I decided to do this introduction pretty recently,
Speaker 1: and so it's going to be a little rough and ready,
Speaker 1: but I think I basically have the idea of what
Speaker 1: I want to talk about. So, you know, Sunningdale is
Speaker 1: probably the least known of the courses that we're going
Speaker 1: to cover in this series on Great Courses, and I
Speaker 1: think the main reason for that is that it hasn't
Speaker 1: really hosted a notable televised tournament for a long time,
Speaker 1: and so people just aren't familiar with what it looks like,
Speaker 1: how it plays. Another reason for its relative obscurity is
Speaker 1: that it's just more private than most courses in the UK.
Speaker 1: Now in the UK, compared to a lot of private
Speaker 1: courses in the US, Sunningdale is fairly easy to get
Speaker 1: on and I think that most people could figure it
Speaker 1: out if they really decided to take a trip to
Speaker 1: this area. But you know, compared to the Old Course
Speaker 1: for instance, or most Links courses in Scotland as well
Speaker 1: as Ireland and England, Sunningdale is just a bit more private,
Speaker 1: So if you don't have a clear idea of what
Speaker 1: Sunningdale looks like, then I would highly recommend going and
Speaker 1: finding the Shell's Wonderful World of Golf episode that features
Speaker 1: Greg Norman and Nick Faldo playing Sunningdale in it's like
Speaker 1: the mid to late nineties. It's an incredible episode. They
Speaker 1: got a beautiful day of weather and the course really
Speaker 1: looks pretty awesome, so i'd recommend that. I believe it's
Speaker 1: on YouTube, so it should be pretty easy to find.
Speaker 1: In any case, Since Sunningdale is less famous than most
Speaker 1: of the courses that we're going to cover in this series,
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit about why I
Speaker 1: chose it and why I consider it so important to
Speaker 1: the history of golf architecture. Sunningdale really stands at the
Speaker 1: beginning of a new wave in golf architecture, and this
Speaker 1: new wave redefined what an inland golf course looked like,
Speaker 1: and it also really set the mold for what just
Speaker 1: modern golf courses looked like. Period. We are very much
Speaker 1: still living in a world that this design at Sunningdale
Speaker 1: helped to create. So what was different about Sunningdale One
Speaker 1: big factor I want to focus on is just the
Speaker 1: cost of building it. Simply put, Sunningdale had a much
Speaker 1: bigger construction budget than any previous course that these numbers
Speaker 1: are that I'm about to cide are based on research
Speaker 1: from Michael Morrison. Michael has been on the podcast before
Speaker 1: and written about the what he calls the Great English
Speaker 1: golf boom. Sunningdale took eighteen months to build. At one point,
Speaker 1: Willie Park had seventy men, thirty horses and ten plows
Speaker 1: working on the course. In total, it costs about four
Speaker 1: thousand pounds to prepare the course, and then the clubhouse
Speaker 1: cost an additional eight thousand. Now these numbers might not
Speaker 1: sound and all that big now, but to put it
Speaker 1: in context, you have to know something about how golf
Speaker 1: courses were built before Sunningdale. For starters, they weren't really
Speaker 1: built in the way that we would understand that word now.
Speaker 1: I think the more appropriate words would be designed or
Speaker 1: laid out. This is true of both the seaside courses
Speaker 1: and the inland courses that existed in Great Britain and
Speaker 1: Ireland in the eighteen hundreds. And it isn't to say
Speaker 1: that these courses were poor or unsophisticated. Many of them
Speaker 1: were anything but but Compared to Sunningdale and most of
Speaker 1: the well known modern inland courses that were built after Sunningdale,
Speaker 1: nineteenth century courses were designed on an absolute shoe string budget,
Speaker 1: you know, nowhere near four thousand pounds, like it just
Speaker 1: didn't get even close to that. Links courses, because of this,
Speaker 1: had a couple of key advantages over inland courses. One,
Speaker 1: they were set on land that was very well suited
Speaker 1: to the game. In fact, Lynk's Land is what inspired
Speaker 1: the game in the first place. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: even funny to say that that Link's Land was well
Speaker 1: suited to golf, because it's really more like golf was,
Speaker 1: in the first place, suited to Lynksland. So obviously creating
Speaker 1: a golf course on links Land didn't require nearly as
Speaker 1: much investment or intervention from the hand of man. The
Speaker 1: second advantage that links courses had, I would say, aside
Speaker 1: from the land, was that many of them had just
Speaker 1: been around for a long time, and so they had
Speaker 1: had a chance to be refined and tuned by you know,
Speaker 1: sort of gradual improvements over time. And the old course
Speaker 1: at Saint Andrews is the perfect example of this. We
Speaker 1: talked about it in the episode that I did with
Speaker 1: Scott Macpherson. You know, that course evolved over a huge
Speaker 1: amount of time and it just kind of got better
Speaker 1: and better over the course of the eighteen hundreds. So
Speaker 1: it's not that links courses were better funded or designed
Speaker 1: with a different and more advanced philosophy than inland courses.
Speaker 1: It's more that they were on better land and had
Speaker 1: been there for longer, all right. So now you look
Speaker 1: at inland courses from the eighteen hundreds, what they were
Speaker 1: like before Sunningdale, before the turn of the twentieth century.
Speaker 1: Most of them were in England, first of all, and
Speaker 1: most of them were built in the midst of an
Speaker 1: incredible craze for golf in the eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties.
Speaker 1: England went absolutely nuts for golf during this time, and
Speaker 1: English people found themselves very undersupplied with courses near population centers.
Speaker 1: So to meet this new demand, courses were constructed very
Speaker 1: quickly on whatever land was available, and they were created
Speaker 1: cheaply because golf was a brand new pastime for many
Speaker 1: people in many places, and for all people knew it
Speaker 1: could just be a passing fat so they weren't necessarily
Speaker 1: going to spend a bunch of money right off the bat.
Speaker 1: That would have been too much of a risk. One
Speaker 1: of the leading architects of this period was Tom Dunn,
Speaker 1: who was a Scottish golf professional. His process was basically
Speaker 1: to visit a site for a day or two, give
Speaker 1: recommendations on where to cut the holes and maybe where
Speaker 1: to dig a few hazards, and then he would leave. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the courses that were built through this method were always
Speaker 1: going to have some issues, drainage issues, functionality issues, and
Speaker 1: generally they were going to lack the artistry that we've
Speaker 1: come to expect from modern golf course design now. Because
Speaker 1: of all this, Tom Dunn became a bit of a
Speaker 1: boogeyman to the next generation of golf architects. Alistair mackenzie
Speaker 1: mentioned him a couple of times. Other architects would write
Speaker 1: about Tom Dunn with a little bit of disdain, but
Speaker 1: if you look at him in the context of his period,
Speaker 1: you can't really blame him for what he did. He
Speaker 1: couldn't have had any concept that a golf course would
Speaker 1: eventually be expected to even have a significant construction budget,
Speaker 1: or to take years to build he was just responding
Speaker 1: to the opportunities and possibilities that the market contained at
Speaker 1: the time in the eighteen eighties and nineties. Now, when
Speaker 1: money came into golf course development at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the twentieth century, starting with Sunningdale, everything changed. Suddenly it
Speaker 1: became relevant to talk about not just laying out a
Speaker 1: golf course, but actually building a golf course. And suddenly
Speaker 1: golf course designers started to think of themselves as golf
Speaker 1: course architects. Right with the possibility of building a golf
Speaker 1: course building, it came the desire to think more deeply
Speaker 1: about the science and philosophy of creating golf courses. There
Speaker 1: started to be much more discussion of what constituted an
Speaker 1: excellent or ideal golf hole, and there was much more
Speaker 1: investigation of golf course agronomy. This is really when modern
Speaker 1: ideas of greenkeeping started to be formed, along with modern
Speaker 1: ideas and philosophies of golf course architecture. Now, it wasn't
Speaker 1: a coincidence that wealthier and more extensively more formally educated
Speaker 1: people started to take an interest in golf course design
Speaker 1: around this time. The infusion of money into golf architecture
Speaker 1: had made the whole discipline a higher status pursuit and
Speaker 1: a form of art. The most influential voices in golf
Speaker 1: course design therefore, were no longer those of working class
Speaker 1: Scottish professionals. Instead, they were well off and usually Oxford
Speaker 1: or Cambridge educated Englishmen like Harry Colt, John Lowe and
Speaker 1: Bernard Darwin and their contemporaries. These men brought their tastes
Speaker 1: and reference points into golf architecture. One of these reference
Speaker 1: points you'll hear Adam Lawrence mentioned later in this episode,
Speaker 1: which is the Arts and Crafts movement in building architecture. Basically,
Speaker 1: this was a style that valued naturalism and a sense
Speaker 1: of place in building architecture, and indeed that influence became
Speaker 1: very important in golf architecture in this new era, because
Speaker 1: you had people who were familiar with arts and crafts
Speaker 1: and familiar with the philosophy behind it suddenly applying these
Speaker 1: kinds of ideas to golf architecture. Now, of course, there
Speaker 1: is a downside to these developments. The greater amount of
Speaker 1: money that was suddenly in golf course development made some
Speaker 1: wonderful art possible, obviously, but it also caused a raising
Speaker 1: of standards and expectations that has resulted in golf becoming
Speaker 1: more expensive and less accessible. This was it turned into
Speaker 1: an absolute spiral, right and it probably would have started
Speaker 1: without Sunningdale. But there's no doubt that Sunningdale was one
Speaker 1: of the very first courses, maybe the first to explore
Speaker 1: that high end of financing a golf experience. And so
Speaker 1: when we say that Sunningdale is the first modern golf course,
Speaker 1: we mean that it was, you know, an unusually artistic
Speaker 1: and well worked out, an impressive inland course, and so
Speaker 1: it was modern architecturally, but it was also modern financially
Speaker 1: and that has not all has been a positive thing.
Speaker 1: And this is this is a complexity of being a
Speaker 1: golf architecture fan as well as somebody who likes affordable
Speaker 1: golf courses. You know, good golf architecture doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be expensive. But when you look at the history, you
Speaker 1: come away with a clear idea that the invention of
Speaker 1: modern golf architecture that really started with Sunningdale set the
Speaker 1: game on a path toward becoming more expensive. And you know,
Speaker 1: history is always complicated like this. We can celebrate great achievements.
Speaker 1: You know, Sunningdale was a great achievement National Golf Links,
Speaker 1: which we talked about in the last episode of the series,
Speaker 1: was an incredible achievement, but they also represented a new
Speaker 1: era of golf course design and golf consumption overall that
Speaker 1: has seen the game become unaffordable for many people, especially
Speaker 1: as compared to the eighteen hundreds when most golf courses
Speaker 1: were just free to play, if you can imagine that.
Speaker 1: All right, So that's basically what I wanted to say
Speaker 1: about this era. I'm still working out those thoughts, but
Speaker 1: I hope that you found them interesting. And with that,
Speaker 1: we're going to toss it to me and Adam Lawrence
Speaker 1: talking a little more specifically about Sunningdale and about the
Speaker 1: people behind it. Let's get to that, all right, Adam Lawrence,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast, Thanks for being here, Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me. So before getting into the Sunningdale project specifically,
Speaker 1: maybe we could just talk about the general area where
Speaker 1: Sunningdale was and where many of the great English golf
Speaker 1: courses ended up being south of London. What was this
Speaker 1: area like and why was it opened up in this
Speaker 1: way for golf construction.
Speaker 2: So Sarah was a very rural county into the early
Speaker 2: middle part of the nineteenth century. If you look at
Speaker 2: the population starts for the town of Working, for example,
Speaker 2: it was tiny, minuscule in the early nineteenth century, and
Speaker 2: then the railways came. And as London grew and the
Speaker 2: railways came, the city in the area around the city
Speaker 2: became less suitable in the eyes of affluent people or
Speaker 2: where they wanted to live and where they wanted to
Speaker 2: bring up their families. They moved out, they became commuters,
Speaker 2: they became suburbanites, and that's how suburbia developed. Suburbia followed
Speaker 2: the railways. And it's not coincidental that so many of
Speaker 2: the golf courses in Surrey have railway lines very close
Speaker 2: to them because the guys used to go there by train.
Speaker 2: Sunnydale has a railway station three minutes walk away. Working
Speaker 2: is further away, but the railway goes straight past it.
Speaker 2: People took trains out there and then they used to
Speaker 2: fight like hell from the stations of the golf course.
Speaker 2: So it grew up in the second half of the
Speaker 2: nineteenth century as the railways got established, and golf followed
Speaker 2: that because the people who were moving to Surrey were
Speaker 2: affluent and they wanted leisure, and as they discovered golf,
Speaker 2: golf became popular.
Speaker 1: And it just so happened that some of the land
Speaker 1: that was available out in Surrey was sandy heathery.
Speaker 2: It is it's the most amazing johincidents. But absolutely that
Speaker 2: is true. There was no great Oh my god, look
Speaker 2: at all this beautiful sand out here, we must build
Speaker 2: dozens of great golf courses. That never ever happened of
Speaker 2: certainly at that time it was there are people here,
Speaker 2: we need land. Here is land and coincidentally it was
Speaker 2: fantastic land for golf.
Speaker 1: It did take a little bit of investment to make
Speaker 1: the land golf ball though, and that's what other funny
Speaker 1: things about it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely for sure, and that was part of the issue.
Speaker 2: The one hundred pounds golf courses were impossible as soon
Speaker 2: as you went onto those heath sites because there was
Speaker 2: no grass. It was all heather, It was all gorse.
Speaker 2: They had to be cleared, they had seeded. They had
Speaker 2: to be built in ways that the previous golf courses
Speaker 2: never did because and this is one of one of
Speaker 2: the most fundamental changes. All the golf courses of the
Speaker 2: nineteenth century were formed using existing turf and in many
Speaker 2: ways on sites where the turf is good, naturally good.
Speaker 2: That's a brilliant thing because you end up with turf
Speaker 2: which is suited to your site, but it's setting there.
Speaker 2: For example, there was no turf, so it all had
Speaker 2: to be seeded and selling those. As far as I
Speaker 2: can tell, was the first golf course ever to be
Speaker 2: entirely seeded, and that's why it was so much more
Speaker 2: expensive than anything that came before it.
Speaker 1: Right, This was such an important moment in golf architecture
Speaker 1: because you know, for the first time golf courses were
Speaker 1: truly being built in the modern way that we understand
Speaker 1: golf courses to be built. And so of course it
Speaker 1: was a huge advance, not with the.
Speaker 2: SEME equivalent, but there would be the soil was being prepared,
Speaker 2: seed was being sown, they were waiting for it to grow,
Speaker 2: they were putting it, they were refining it, blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and then they went to planet Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know before that, golf courses were sometimes really amazing. Obviously,
Speaker 1: if they were on excellent land like seaside links land,
Speaker 1: you know that the land would determine the quality of
Speaker 1: the course. But if a cheap course is built inland
Speaker 1: on a site that's not particularly well suited to it.
Speaker 1: It's probably not going to be particular early good. And
Speaker 1: so that's that's what happened to this day. If you
Speaker 1: have a site that has heavy soil, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to spend some money on it if you want to
Speaker 1: make it good golf. All right, why don't we get
Speaker 1: into the Sunningdale project specifically? How did the project get
Speaker 1: off the ground?
Speaker 2: So there were two brothers, there were the Roberts brothers,
Speaker 2: and they built a house at something now and there
Speaker 2: had been according to there's a history of the sending
Speaker 2: the old club called the sunning the Old Story. It
Speaker 2: was written in the late fifties by Guy Bennett, who
Speaker 2: was next secretary of the club, and was revised ten
Speaker 2: or twelve years ago by John Churchill, who was a
Speaker 2: long term member of the club, and basically the club
Speaker 2: is his story. According to that, there were a few
Speaker 2: there had been a small attempt to play golf in
Speaker 2: the area, and there were a few holes on what
Speaker 2: is now the setting their Ladies course, and the Roberts
Speaker 2: built house bursts in their station and they decided to
Speaker 2: build the golf course and it was essentially a piece
Speaker 2: of land speculation. It wasn't the sort of master planned
Speaker 2: golf estate that we know nowadays. But the land was
Speaker 2: owned and still is owned, most of it by Saint
Speaker 2: John's College, Cambridge, and they got they acquired the rights
Speaker 2: to build on the land from Saint John's and they
Speaker 2: started trying to build some houses along with the golf
Speaker 2: and obviously the area was growing apple and people were
Speaker 2: moving there. It was a pretty good proposition. They hired
Speaker 2: Willie Park to build, but not only to design but
Speaker 2: also to build the golf course, and the value of
Speaker 2: the contract was three eight hundred pounds, which it would
Speaker 2: be way, way, way more than ever been spent in
Speaker 2: a course. At that point. They had a company called
Speaker 2: the Ridgemont Estate Company which took large scale leases from
Speaker 2: Saint John's for land clots of land in the area
Speaker 2: on which they could build the houses. So, as I say,
Speaker 2: it was essentially an anspecabation project, but just andrew more
Speaker 2: of their golf clubs in.
Speaker 1: The world, and they raised far more money than had
Speaker 1: really ever been raised for a golf course project. As
Speaker 1: you say, I what allowed them to do that.
Speaker 2: Because these were affluent people who could see a return
Speaker 2: irrespective of the golf. They were able to bring significantly,
Speaker 2: massively larger sums of money to bear on the project
Speaker 2: than had previously been the case. And you know, money
Speaker 2: has always followed money. If you have money, you can
Speaker 2: raise more, and they could see a return, so they
Speaker 2: were able to raise the money.
Speaker 1: Who was Willie Parker Jr.
Speaker 2: At this point he was already pretty damn well established
Speaker 2: and he'd only opened twice. He was a very go
Speaker 2: getting fella. He was very entrepreneurial and he clearly saw
Speaker 2: in Sonnydale a big opportunity. He built Huntercom in Oxfordshire
Speaker 2: pretty much at the same time as Sonningdale, and he
Speaker 2: was essentially the owner at Huntercombe. And it was Huntercomb
Speaker 2: going bust in nineteen eight or whenever it was that
Speaker 2: basically destroyed park financially.
Speaker 1: So he had a number of things going on. Suffice
Speaker 1: it to say that he had built a few golf courses,
Speaker 1: but certainly nothing on the scale and ambition of Sunningdale
Speaker 1: or Huntercombe.
Speaker 2: Nobody had done anything on that scale, well, not part
Speaker 2: not done not anybody.
Speaker 1: Yes, And he turned out to be the guy I know.
Speaker 1: And he had written about architecture previously. I know he
Speaker 1: had written one of the very early sort of chapters
Speaker 1: that there was a chapter in his book. I forget
Speaker 1: what the book is called, but there's a chapter in
Speaker 1: his book on the art of laying out golf courses.
Speaker 1: And this was one of the first times that somebody
Speaker 1: had really written something like this that went into detail
Speaker 1: about golf architecture. But certainly to him, even to him,
Speaker 1: this was something quite new. So what do we know
Speaker 1: about the construction process at Sunningdale, how that played out,
Speaker 1: who was involved that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: I've never seen a good description of how many people
Speaker 2: were involved, but it was a big job. There is
Speaker 2: a very nice description in the Sunningdale story. There was
Speaker 2: a chap called Bert Chapman who grew up in the
Speaker 2: Sunday Sunningdale area and he worked for the club for
Speaker 2: six So this is from the Sunnydale story. There is
Speaker 2: moreover another servant of the club, but Chapman, who is
Speaker 2: still in service after more than sixty years. His story
Speaker 2: told to me some years ago when I met him
Speaker 2: going down to the villages and follows. I used to
Speaker 2: work for Greener Rest in the village. Now, one day
Speaker 2: one Saturday, I wanted to go to the Cup final
Speaker 2: with the pan the Powell. I asked me Boston. He said,
Speaker 2: you can't go, but I went. I turned up as
Speaker 2: usual on Monday Monday, but he packed me off, said
Speaker 2: he didn't want me any more. One day I met
Speaker 2: a Powell and he says to me, Illo, Bertie out
Speaker 2: of a job? Yes, says I, I got the sack.
Speaker 2: Look here, says he. They're making a golf course or
Speaker 2: something up on the Common. There's the man who's making it.
Speaker 2: And he pointed to a man smoking a big cigar.
Speaker 2: It was mister Woody Park. I went up to him
Speaker 2: and said, excuse me, sir. He yeah, they're making a
Speaker 2: golf course or something up on the common. Hey, chance
Speaker 2: of a job for me, he said. I going up
Speaker 2: there and you'll see my fallen mister mclin and ask him.
Speaker 2: I went along and I sees old Matt. Are you
Speaker 2: mister McLean? Says I. Yes, He says, have you got
Speaker 2: a job for me on this golf course you're making?
Speaker 2: Can you dig? I can do anything, says I. Then
Speaker 2: carry on, says he next Tuesday, Slobin here fifty years. Yeah.
Speaker 2: If they were hiring people who's walked in like that, right,
Speaker 2: it was a big job.
Speaker 1: So they recruited local laborers to help and and all that,
Speaker 1: like this is confirmation of that.
Speaker 2: Would all it would all have been manual, or the
Speaker 2: greens would all have been dug out, and whatever that
Speaker 2: was moved was moved by hand.
Speaker 1: And just to put a finer point on this, no
Speaker 1: golf project Inland or anywhere really had required this degree
Speaker 1: of manual labor efforts. And so absolutely not. This was
Speaker 1: something something pretty special. So you know, when Sunningdale opened,
Speaker 1: do you have a sense of what was different about
Speaker 1: it or whether golfers noticed that there was something new
Speaker 1: happening with this golf course.
Speaker 2: So John Lowe, in his newspaper column in December nineteen
Speaker 2: hundred and one and the course opened earlier in nineteen
Speaker 2: oh one, reported that founders life membership shares in the club,
Speaker 2: which had sold originally for one hundred pounds by that
Speaker 2: point six months after a doubled trading fo one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty, So you know, it was clearly a hell
Speaker 2: of a success very quickly. In the same article, Loewe
Speaker 2: said they were talking about a second course. Now that
Speaker 2: didn't happen for twenty odd years, but they were talking
Speaker 2: about it even then.
Speaker 1: Now in the course's early days. Perry Colt, who is
Speaker 1: somebody that you know a great deal about, probably more
Speaker 1: than anybody else. Harry Court Cross Paths with Sunningdale Golf
Speaker 1: Club became involved. So can you tell me that story?
Speaker 1: How did he get involved in this project?
Speaker 2: Well, so Colt had played golf, he'd been captain of
Speaker 2: Cambridge University and he continued when he was He was
Speaker 2: from a family. His father was a lawyer, his brother
Speaker 2: was his older brother was a lawyer, and clearly law
Speaker 2: was the family business. So Colt studied law hemorrhage. It
Speaker 2: was pretty obvious that he intended to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2: So he graduated, he became a lawyer, and he moved
Speaker 2: down to Hastings in the South Coast and started practicing law.
Speaker 2: The same time the Right Club opened, he joined that
Speaker 2: he was involved, that he was very fundamentally involved in
Speaker 2: not the creation of the original Right Course actually, but
Speaker 2: the creation of the second Rite Course, which was done
Speaker 2: almost immediately after opened. And that over a period of
Speaker 2: about five years, they're say in ninety three and ninety four,
Speaker 2: so a period of about five years. He played a
Speaker 2: lot of golf. He was made he became a member
Speaker 2: of the RNA in the early eighteen nineties, he traveled
Speaker 2: around playing golf a lot, and he spent pretty much
Speaker 2: all his spare time playing golf. In eighteen ninety eight,
Speaker 2: the Oxyden Cambridge Golfing Society was founded essentially by John Lowe,
Speaker 2: but not exclusively, and it seems to me that playing
Speaker 2: with the society made cult realize golf people are much
Speaker 2: more fun than law people, and it seems to me
Speaker 2: that at that point that he decided I'd like to
Speaker 2: spend my time in golf. People of colts class did
Speaker 2: not work in golf at the time. The only people
Speaker 2: who made a living from golf were people of lower
Speaker 2: class as their professional golfers were caddies, were greenkeepers, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. Middle class educated people did not work in golf.
Speaker 2: They played golf, then they went to do their actual work.
Speaker 2: You annoyed that time, the RNA decided for the first
Speaker 2: time to employ a paid secretary. This is eighteen ninety
Speaker 2: nine nineteen hundred. Holt applied for the job and unsurprisingly
Speaker 2: it was short list, but he didn't get the job,
Speaker 2: and he assembled its astonishing package of testimonials. When he
Speaker 2: applied for the RNA job. The most amazing one was
Speaker 2: from Arthur Balfa, who at the time was I think
Speaker 2: his tuitle was Chief Secretary of the Treasury. But he
Speaker 2: was essentially the number two in the British government because
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister of the town was Lord Saltivery, who
Speaker 2: was in the House of Lords. So Balfour was the
Speaker 2: number one in the Commons. And he became Prime Minister
Speaker 2: a year or two later. And Balfour was a member
Speaker 2: of Ryan He knew Colt very well, and so Balfa wrote,
Speaker 2: I have known mister Colt now for some years, and
Speaker 2: chiefly in connection with a Rye Golf Club. As honorary
Speaker 2: secretary of that institution, he has undoubtedly conferred immense services
Speaker 2: upon it. He has the great advantage of not only
Speaker 2: being an excellent man of business, but an admirable golfer.
Speaker 2: His personal popularity is a matter of common knowledge and
Speaker 2: is most thoroughly deserved. Horace Hutchison wrote a testimony of
Speaker 2: a cult. James Ogilby Fairley, who was the son of
Speaker 2: the guy who created the Open, wrote a testimony for cult.
Speaker 2: He had this amazing sheath of testimonials, and he didn't
Speaker 2: get the bloody John. It astounds me actually that Colt
Speaker 2: didn't get hired by the RNA at that time. But
Speaker 2: he didn't, but that had clearly made cult think I'd
Speaker 2: like to work in golf. And when the Sunningdale Club
Speaker 2: was formed, they advertised for a secondary and he applied.
Speaker 2: There were four hundred and thirty five applications and they
Speaker 2: shortless and six and Cole got the gig. And that
Speaker 2: was in July nineteen oh one.
Speaker 1: And so part of Colt's purview at Sunningdale was not
Speaker 1: only kind of serving as the as the club secretary
Speaker 1: as we would currently imagine it, but he also had
Speaker 1: some input on the golf course and oversaw some changes
Speaker 1: to the golf course. Do we have a sense of
Speaker 1: what those were?
Speaker 2: All was essentially, I don't want to use a phrase
Speaker 2: of it, he was the dictator. He was clearly very
Speaker 2: popular with the members, and the members believed in him
Speaker 2: and they let him do whatever he wanted. John Lowe
Speaker 2: said that Sunningdale was wonderful course from the opening, but
Speaker 2: other people said other things about it. Darwin was quite
Speaker 2: rude about a lot of the holes that were creating
Speaker 2: the opening. He said, in particularly the part three holes
Speaker 2: were very poor, and Colt rebuilt a lot of sunning
Speaker 2: down This is Darwin in nineteen hundred and eight. Many
Speaker 2: critics of golf courses, the writer this writer among them,
Speaker 2: have always had three serious objections to the Sunningdale course
Speaker 2: as originally laid out. In the first place, it's short
Speaker 2: holes seemed poor. In the second place, the seventh and
Speaker 2: eleventh holes seemed too blind and fluky, and in the
Speaker 2: third place, the last two holes, especially the seventeen, seemed feeble.
Speaker 2: Then two years later, in the golf course of the
Speaker 2: British Isles, Darwin repeated some discriptions, but in general was
Speaker 2: much more positive. And that was because in those two
Speaker 2: years Colt had done quite a lot. He built a
Speaker 2: substantial proportion of the golf course. And although the course
Speaker 2: remains in its routing and it's fundamentals parks, but a
Speaker 2: lot of the detail is cold. There are some very
Speaker 2: interesting individual things. So the thirteenth hole, which is now
Speaker 2: nice but not especially exciting, downhill Part three, at the
Speaker 2: time Darwin referred to as one of the very worst
Speaker 2: holes in the world. It was a Part three that
Speaker 2: was basically completely blind, straight over a hill. Cold built
Speaker 2: it and built the downhill hole. Interestingly, he put a
Speaker 2: bunker pot bunker right at the front and almost entirely
Speaker 2: surrounded by the green, and the bunker got the nickname
Speaker 2: of Holt Poe. Now a poe in course English English
Speaker 2: is a chamber pot, a pot that you would keep
Speaker 2: under the bed to go to the good to the
Speaker 2: bathroom in at night.
Speaker 1: So people may not have been a particular fan of that.
Speaker 2: I think it was. It was significantly more popular than
Speaker 2: the previous toll. It was just a rude name. You know,
Speaker 2: you spent time with English English people, and you know
Speaker 2: that we take the mickey out of things that we love.
Speaker 1: So Colts changes to Sunningdale, you know, he made a
Speaker 1: number of specific changes, redid some holes. I'd like to
Speaker 1: get a general sense of how the course kind of
Speaker 1: looked different after Colt was done with it. My general sense,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you can confirm this or not,
Speaker 1: is that the style of Park's architecture when it came
Speaker 1: to how the bunkers were shaped or even how the
Speaker 1: greens were contoured, was a little bit different from what
Speaker 1: Cult ended up putting in at Sunningdale. Sunningdale by you know,
Speaker 1: the end of the decade, by the end of the
Speaker 1: first decade of the twentieth century looks to me quite
Speaker 1: a bit like a hairy cult course when it comes
Speaker 1: to how the bunkers are shaped and all that. So
Speaker 1: what was going on with that?
Speaker 2: It's my opinion that Park was very much a transitional
Speaker 2: golf architect. He was very very important in the history
Speaker 2: of golf architecture. But we have to realize that it
Speaker 2: was only from about eighteen ninety eight eighteen ninety nine
Speaker 2: that John Lowe, who was really the creator of the
Speaker 2: concept of strategy golf design, started to write about that subject.
Speaker 2: So in nineteen hundred and eight I haven't been able
Speaker 2: to trace the actual clippings, but there was clearly a
Speaker 2: series of articles in newspapers that said Fault was responsible
Speaker 2: for selling Dell and so. Foult then sent Park a
Speaker 2: letter to which he copied to the newspap So, dear sir,
Speaker 2: from a letter appearing in this week's since you have
Speaker 2: Golf illustrated, it seems that a statement has been made
Speaker 2: in the press taking away from you the credits of
Speaker 2: laying out the Sunningdale golf course. I write to tell
Speaker 2: you that if this weisode was done without my knowledge
Speaker 2: in any shape or form. The above mentioned letter gives
Speaker 2: you every credit for laying out the course, which is
Speaker 2: your due, without a shadow of doubt. And if I'm
Speaker 2: may be allowed to say so, no one appreciates your
Speaker 2: work at Sunningdale more than myself or know all the
Speaker 2: difficulty of forming the framework or a really good course.
Speaker 2: Please make any use you would like of this letter
Speaker 2: yours truly. Hs cold Park got a lot right, but
Speaker 2: esthetically he was an eighteen nineties designer. There is still
Speaker 2: to this day landforms on the old course at Sunningdale
Speaker 2: that when you walk around the course you think that
Speaker 2: looks strange. That's not natural, and what they are is
Speaker 2: manned things that were created built by Park. The first
Speaker 2: hole had a essentially a mound built in front of it.
Speaker 2: You've heard about the steeple Jess spunkers of the eighteen
Speaker 2: nineties and not have you. It was something along those lines.
Speaker 2: Colt removed a lot of it and made it possible
Speaker 2: to hit a running shot onto the first green. Park's
Speaker 2: seventh hole at Sunningdale was a blind drive, which the
Speaker 2: whole still is and a blind second shot. Hold left
Speaker 2: the driver as it was, but built a new green
Speaker 2: in a new location which made the second shot visible. Obviously,
Speaker 2: he removed the blindness on the thirteenth hole. He did
Speaker 2: a lot of small things around Sunningdale that made it
Speaker 2: a more modern golf course. One of the things that
Speaker 2: I discovered while researching my Colt book was that Colt,
Speaker 2: by nineteen hundred and seven nineteen hundred and eight, before
Speaker 2: he had ever started to practice as a golf course architecture,
Speaker 2: had a strong reputation in the small golfing community of
Speaker 2: the day as one of the great experts on golf courses.
Speaker 2: And that's how his career started. His career started because
Speaker 2: of what he did at Sunningdale.
Speaker 1: And part of what he did at Sunningdale you've alluded to.
Speaker 1: He built features that simply looked more natural than what
Speaker 1: park had originally built. And so there was a kind
Speaker 1: of new style of golf architecture entering the stage at Sunningdale.
Speaker 1: And so I want to spend a moment just talking
Speaker 1: about that new more naturalistic style of inland architecture that
Speaker 1: the cult seemed to be at the forefront of.
Speaker 2: This is the thing. There are two thing that's going
Speaker 2: on in golf architecture around the tenants fron of the century.
Speaker 2: There is strategy and there is naturalism, and they're not
Speaker 2: the same. And you can look at it this way
Speaker 2: and say Bark got strategy, but he didn't get naturalism,
Speaker 2: or he didn't understand how to create things that were natural,
Speaker 2: And that really is the issue. You can build a
Speaker 2: strategy golf course and it cannot be natural. You look
Speaker 2: at the see them Donald golf courses, instances, you look
Speaker 2: at the rain of courses. You look at quite a
Speaker 2: lot of similar golf courses in the UK. They're highly strategic,
Speaker 2: but they're completely unnatural, and so naturalism and strategy are
Speaker 2: not the same thing. They just happened to develop around
Speaker 2: the same time.
Speaker 1: And I would say Cult is an enormously influential person
Speaker 1: in bringing naturalism into architecture.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and Cult wrote wrote, you know, Cult wrote about
Speaker 2: that a lot, and he was always highly committed to
Speaker 2: making his work look as natural as possible. Now, the
Speaker 2: old course, that's something goes It's very interesting. We said
Speaker 2: we wouldn't go too much onto the new courses something ago.
Speaker 2: But if you compare the new and the old, the
Speaker 2: new is more naturalistic because it was done twenty something
Speaker 2: years later by an architect who had spent a lot
Speaker 2: of that twenty years learning how to build golf features
Speaker 2: that look natural, whereas the old was built by a
Speaker 2: Scottish pro who had never never really had to think
Speaker 2: about that before.
Speaker 1: Where do you think Colt's idea that golf features inland
Speaker 1: should look and feel natural came from? Was there like
Speaker 1: a philosophical source for this, for this notion that a
Speaker 1: golf course should even attempt to be natural in this way?
Speaker 2: There's there's a definite strand in Victorian thinking that arts
Speaker 2: with the Romantic movement. And if you look at what
Speaker 2: happens in late Victorian England and Britain with the attitude
Speaker 2: to hill walking. For example, nobody went into the hills
Speaker 2: in the early nineteenth century, and by the late nineteenth
Speaker 2: century walking in the hills, climbing the hills is all
Speaker 2: the rage. If you look at the development in buildings,
Speaker 2: architecture and interior design and esthetics generally of the Arts
Speaker 2: of Grass movement in the last part of the nineteenth century,
Speaker 2: they are hugely into naturalism and I think that is
Speaker 2: very influential in the way that Fault bought There is
Speaker 2: no significant evidence that I have seen of people talking
Speaker 2: about natural golf courses prete cult but there's a lot
Speaker 2: of evidence of people talking about how important nature is.
Speaker 2: I think that's the connection.
Speaker 1: Okay, So there were some different strands of thought kind
Speaker 1: of entering into golf. At this point. You mentioned the
Speaker 1: Arts and crafts movement, which the writer, the late writer
Speaker 1: Thomas mcwood has established was an influence on golf course
Speaker 1: design at the time. And that's a very interesting set
Speaker 1: of articles.
Speaker 2: If you look at the key the key people in
Speaker 2: the Arts and grass and most importantly William Morris. Morris
Speaker 2: was usually influential on how middle class Britain thought in
Speaker 2: the latter latter years of the nineteenth century, and Colt
Speaker 2: was Paul was a middle class Englishman. There was there
Speaker 2: was nothing great in Cole's family, bragger and his father
Speaker 2: was a lawyer, but a fairly anonymous lawyer. And then
Speaker 2: by the time that he was he builds Swimley Forest
Speaker 2: in nineteen ten he's working hand in hand with some
Speaker 2: of the most high pro farm man in England. So
Speaker 2: Hold is an example of how golf can make you
Speaker 2: uply mobile socially speaking. At the same time you have
Speaker 2: this sort of aspirational another class attitude to design its
Speaker 2: broadest sense, which comes from Morris and the rest of
Speaker 2: the Arts and Crafts and the pariraph lives. It's Thomas
Speaker 2: Wood's piece on arts and crafts. The arts and Craft's
Speaker 2: influencing golf is, in my opinion, one of the most
Speaker 2: amazing thing is people have written. Anyone has written, it's very,
Speaker 2: very very insightful. His general third trust arguing that the
Speaker 2: arts and crafts movement have a big influence on golf
Speaker 2: is in my opinionaturally spot on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And people can read that piece on golf club
Speaker 1: at Liss. That's that's where that's.
Speaker 2: Several pieces, I believe. I think it's like, I think
Speaker 2: it has like four or five substantial chapters. My impression
Speaker 2: I didn't know to but mind prison told me is
Speaker 2: that he didn't really know when to stop writing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he produced. He produced quite a bit, and it's
Speaker 1: been really influential in the way a lot of people
Speaker 1: think about this time in golf architecture. Now. Another factor
Speaker 1: that's different about Colt and his contemporaries. And when I
Speaker 1: talk about Colt's contemporaries, I'm talking about men like Hugh Allison,
Speaker 1: Alistair Mackenzie, Herbert Fowler, Tom Simpson, Abercrobbie Krum. This whole
Speaker 1: kind of set of golf course designers who popped up
Speaker 1: in England at this time. One, they were English primarily,
Speaker 1: whereas most of the previous golf course designers had been Scottish.
Speaker 1: Even those designers who practiced primarily in England were Scottish pros.
Speaker 1: And second of all, many of the people in Colt's
Speaker 1: circle and who practiced golf architecture in a way that
Speaker 1: was influenced by Colt or similar to Colt, many of
Speaker 1: these men were middle class as opposed to working class.
Speaker 1: And so that's that's also a difference, right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it's fundamentally about how golf developed. You know,
Speaker 2: you have to realize there was essentially no golf in
Speaker 2: England before the eighteen sixties. Roll Off Devon was founded
Speaker 2: if I remember riding in eighteen sixty four. Now it
Speaker 2: wasn't the first golf club in England, but it was
Speaker 2: in a sense the first English golf club because the
Speaker 2: London Scottish Club was obviously found about Expant Scotts. Black Heat,
Speaker 2: which goes back a long, long long way, was created
Speaker 2: by Expand Scotts and golf only starts to spread in
Speaker 2: England from the eighteen sixties and the eighteen seventies, and
Speaker 2: it's a slow process in those early years. And Pott
Speaker 2: was born in eighteen sixty nine and he was essentially
Speaker 2: the one of the first generation of English people who
Speaker 2: was able to discover golf as a kid. When golf
Speaker 2: moved to England, it became a middle class game in
Speaker 2: a way that it had not originally been in Scotland.
Speaker 2: That's changed somewhat over the proceed over the century and
Speaker 2: a half since then, but not completely. But golf became aspirational.
Speaker 2: Golf became an extent to sign something that only fairly
Speaker 2: affluent people who could play certainly could only join clubs,
Speaker 2: and people like Cold Got did well off the bank
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, part of this middle classification of golf,
Speaker 1: or this turning of golf into more of an affluent
Speaker 1: person's sport, was that the golf architecture changed. There was
Speaker 1: a little bit of a lag in that, but you know,
Speaker 1: a place like Sunningdale, with how much money they spent
Speaker 1: on it compared to previous golf courses, certainly has to
Speaker 1: be considered part of that movement of the game entoingland.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it becomes even more obvious when you go
Speaker 2: forward from Sea a few years and you see the
Speaker 2: creation of Swiney Forest. Swennly was created fundamentally because people
Speaker 2: couldn't always get a game on Saturday morning and Sittingdale
Speaker 2: because it's too damn popular. They wanted the course. It
Speaker 2: was quieter. Rich people wanted to course. It was quieter,
Speaker 2: and as that part of England grew, it naturally became
Speaker 2: more affluent. And if golf grows in that area, it
Speaker 2: is also going to be affluent. Golf in an area
Speaker 2: where land is becoming more expensive is going to become
Speaker 2: more expensive because it requires quite a lot of land.
Speaker 1: So then how would you describe the influence of Sunningdale
Speaker 1: on the future of golf architecture forward from that point
Speaker 1: and by extension, cult's influence on where golf course design
Speaker 1: ended up going.
Speaker 2: I've always felt that Sending Now was the most important
Speaker 2: golf course in the world as far as golf architecture
Speaker 2: is concerned, because it's essentially the founding document of golf
Speaker 2: course architecture. Everything that existed before it was done, not
Speaker 2: Higgeldy Piggldy, but it certainly wasn't done in anything like
Speaker 2: such a systematic and thought through where Senningdell was. It's
Speaker 2: important to understand just how small the world of golf
Speaker 2: was before nineteen fourteen. In the First World War, everybody
Speaker 2: knew everybody, and that's true across the Atlantic as well.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of criss crossing between the
Speaker 2: American golf community and the British golf community. George Windeler,
Speaker 2: who was president of the USGA and I think nineteen
Speaker 2: hundred and three, was an Englishman who moved to Boston
Speaker 2: and kept crossing the Atlantic on business. There was a
Speaker 2: lot of cross fertilization between the two and everybody knew everybody.
Speaker 2: And so if Sunningdale is regarded as Bobet, people are
Speaker 2: going to want their courses to be more like Sunningdale.
Speaker 2: If Cult is regarded as the person who was pretty
Speaker 2: fundamentally important in making SUNNINGDL the best, they're going to
Speaker 2: want Cult to help and make their cost life more
Speaker 2: like sunning now.
Speaker 1: And it was Colt who built many of the courses
Speaker 1: in the Heathlns and expanded and his protegees right and
Speaker 1: people who were influenced by him, who included Allison and
Speaker 1: Mackenzie and many others, and so, yeah, it's it's something
Speaker 1: that it's kind of a hypothesis that I have that
Speaker 1: I haven't totally proven yet, but it's almost like Sunningdale
Speaker 1: set the mold for what a golf course looked like,
Speaker 1: for what a modern golf course looked like, and we
Speaker 1: still are sort of under the influence of that idea.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think Sunningdale is the first modern golf course.
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's no doubt in my mind that's true.
Speaker 1: And that's not to discount the influence of Links, golf courses,
Speaker 1: or Saint Andrews or any of the great.
Speaker 2: Courting everything that Colt and his followers and his friends
Speaker 2: and the people who were around him and doing the
Speaker 2: censor of thing as him at the time. Everything they
Speaker 2: were doing was trying to bring the links and specifically
Speaker 2: the old course and Surnaridrews that were trying to create
Speaker 2: something that resembled that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something that we maybe didn't talk about
Speaker 1: enough in the in the past, you know, hour or so,
Speaker 1: that a huge influence on the way that Colt thought
Speaker 1: about how a golf course should function and how it
Speaker 1: should look was of course his experience playing links golf courses,
Speaker 1: especially the old course at Saint Andrews.
Speaker 2: Without a shadow, without a shadow of down. But it
Speaker 2: must be realized that cult didn't grow up on Lynks.
Speaker 2: His first experience of links golf would have been at Cambridge. Now,
Speaker 2: admittedly he only started playing golf a year or so
Speaker 2: before he went to Cambridge, but he grew up inland
Speaker 2: on early inland courses. The course at Cambridge on which
Speaker 2: he played most of his university golf was dreadful.
Speaker 1: Well there isn't there a book that was written about
Speaker 1: it that's called the worst in the World.
Speaker 2: My friend Michael Morrison.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's right. Michael Morrison has been on the podcast.
Speaker 2: With Dowey Dowey who christened it there and you most
Speaker 2: early early inland golf was pretty bad, but it was golf,
Speaker 2: you know, and that and that's the fundamental point. If
Speaker 2: all you have is bad courses, a band course is
Speaker 2: better than no course if you like gold.
Speaker 1: All right, well, Adam, this has been really informative. Thank
Speaker 1: you for coming on the podcast and talking about signing down.
Speaker 2: I had I Agret who so thank you so much
Speaker 2: for having me.
Speaker 1: Garet appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Thanky, good night.
Speaker 1: This episode of the Frida Egg Golf podcast was produced
Speaker 1: by Matt Rusius. Thank you, Matt. If you've been enjoying
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