1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie. Oh hey, it's Samantha, and what 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: kind of stuff I've never told your prediction if I 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: heart radios? How your intros are always so much better 4 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: than I don't think so it's just me playing off 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: of you. Well, I always say the same thing in 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: the same well. I feel like it needs to be like, 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: I like differentiation. I want to even it out. And 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: that was an insult, but that's okay. No, Also because 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: I need to stick out somehow because the rest of 10 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: the thing, the episode, I'm not really present. I disagree. 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: I disagree, So I'm like, hey, I'm here, just gonna 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: need you to be here for this one. Yes, because 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: this one is a bit meta meta because we're talking 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: about women in podcasting. What while we're women in podcasts 15 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: as were podcasting. It's already my mind is getting confused. UM. 16 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: We do have some stats, kind of like State of 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: the Union stats. UM. Google has index over two million podcasts. 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: US podcasting ad revenue came out to three fourteen million 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: dollars in twenty seventeen, and it's expected to grow to 20 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: six hundred and sixty million by Women are closing the 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: gender listening gap likeking behind men by only nine percent. 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: I have so many female friends you listen to podcasts, 23 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, so many. UM, shout out to all 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: of you right in my head, I'm like, that doesn't 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: seem right because I know more women who listen to 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: podcasts than men, So that's surprising. The percentage of women 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: listening to podcasts increased by six times when compared to 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: men in twenty seventeen, up to five point five hours 29 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: a week. Women only host though about twenty two percent 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: of shows UM. About one third of the top one 31 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: hundred on Apple podcasts were hosted or co hosted by 32 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: women in twenty seventeen, and I've also seen thirty five 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: percent um by women depending on the source. But I 34 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: think that's counting like co host maybe the one man, 35 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: one woman, something like that. Um. And When asking women 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: about the things that keep them out of podcasting why 37 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: don't they get into this industry, the most common reasons 38 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: were expensive equipment, lack of experience, and self doubt or 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: lack of confidence. Um and a lot of you probably 40 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: remember this. Collisions recently released the pod twenty two, a 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: list of the twenty two most influential people in podcasting. 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: There were only two women on it, and the internet 43 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: went wild. Who are the two women? Sarah Koonig for sure, 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: I can't remember the other one. Um, they did update it, 45 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: by the way. It was that much of an uproar 46 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: that they're They're like, okay, you're right, my bad, Yeah, 47 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: let's fix this. According to Edison research, of people listening 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: to podcasts are white, of podcast listeners are African American, 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: eleven percent of podcast listeners are Hispanic Latino, and seven 50 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 1: percent podcast listeners are Asian. And this hash changed dramatically 51 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: between two thousand and eight to nineteen from white to white? 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: And did you see We're going global? I did see 53 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 1: that we're going global, so hopefully that will change for 54 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: us as well. Yeah. I love that. Sounds like a 55 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: movie or something global, like Spice Girls type thing. When 56 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm reading, I'm like, oh, no, people are in the 57 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: whole world is gonna not like me? You know, you 58 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: should turn that into a positive. Oh, I'm sorry, And 59 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: I will say. One of the most common questions we 60 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: consistently get, um is how do I get into podcasting 61 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: or how did you get into podcasting? Or how does 62 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: podcasting work? So hopefully to you listeners, who who we 63 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: very much appreciate. We're glad that you're part of all 64 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: these numbers that were healting up. Yes, hopefully you'll find 65 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: this informative and enlightening. Um, because one of the things 66 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about is this is a male 67 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: dominated industry still, much like much of entertainment. Yes, it 68 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: is a new industry, so I've read a lot of 69 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: hopeful it's a new wish so I've read a lot 70 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: of hopeful things that we have more room to change that, 71 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: right than other industries perhaps do. And um, one of 72 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: the things about working in a male dominated industry that 73 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: is reliant on your voice, right, is finding confidence in 74 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: your voice, and that is so difficult. Yeah, I definitely 75 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: am not there. No, I really don't know anybody male 76 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: or female who likes their voice. But um, I will 77 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: say that as a woman, I feel that your voice 78 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: can do no right. Oh my goodness. The constant criticism 79 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: is amazing, I know. And it's for like, for the 80 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: same soundclip, you could hear too much vocal fry. I 81 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: don't know focal fright. No one ever says not enough fry, 82 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: but something like that, Like I've been criticized used for 83 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 1: laughing too much and not laughing enough in the same thing. Um, 84 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: but yeah, speak vocal fry giggling. The advice I've gotten 85 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: from old dudes who seem to genuinely believe that they 86 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: are helping me. Here's how you should podcast, young lady. 87 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: Yeah so much. Um. The trolls who tell you that 88 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: they're just angry because you're too ugly to get any 89 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: like that has nothing to do with your voice. I 90 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: haven't seen that yet. Oh, thank goodness, well yet yet. Um, 91 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: and it's all it all basically boils down to shut up, 92 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: go away, right. I don't want to hear you. Well, 93 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: I've had I've seen enough about you know you're too liberal. 94 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: This is another social justice warrior LT like you do understand. 95 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: This is a podcast about feminism, so therefore hard to 96 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: steer away from those topics. Yeah, and um. In that environment, 97 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: when you have self doubt, when you do struggle with 98 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: imposter syndrome, which is kind of what we're talking about today, 99 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: podcaster imposter syndrome, super fun to say. Um, it is 100 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: difficult to have any real idea if what you're doing 101 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: is in any way valuable, are good because you're just 102 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: getting your bombarded with criticism. Yeah, And when I first 103 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: started podcasting, one of my bosses UM bought in a 104 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: vocal coach, which sounds great. I was really excited about it, 105 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: but this vocal coach pretty much told me all the 106 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: stuff you hear about out of sound less like a woman, 107 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: stop stop vocal fry, don't found so questioning, don't all 108 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: the things that I associate with being kind of a 109 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: natural conversationalist, don't do those things, which might be good 110 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: advice for success if you're trying to maintain the stas 111 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: quo I mean probably. Yeah, A lot of advice I 112 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: see for female non binary podcasters out there does make 113 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: me cringe or feel uncomfortable because it does seem to 114 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: boil down to you. It's a man's world being more masculine, right, 115 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: but not too much, but not too much, that's ridiculous. 116 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: And then if yourself conscious about your voice on top 117 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: of all that, it makes you sound the cursed less often, right, Yeah, 118 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: which is another pretty female specific criticism I often see. Yeah, 119 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: with the fact that I'm very new to this world, 120 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I hate my voice. 121 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: I do not enjoy listening to myself, and I know 122 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: it's a general thing for most people, but now having 123 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: to purposely listen to myself like every week causes me 124 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: this amount of anxiety where I have to really sit down, Billy, Okay, breath, 125 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: you have to listen. You can be you can You're 126 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay. By the way, 127 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: I have to say it out loud myself. So that's just, 128 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: you know, on top of already having to hear myself. 129 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: And I've been very humbled with the fact that I 130 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: used to be critical too of female voices in general, 131 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: just whether it's oh, they're too shrill, they say like 132 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: too much, they do this, this or that. And now 133 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm realizing, wow, that's really painful. That's really painful, even 134 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: if you think you're talking to no one, like you're 135 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: just saying it to yourself or saying out loud to 136 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: your friend, or you just randomly just tweet out there 137 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: that the word tweet. I think that's what the kids 138 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: I want. The word I say usually is a bad words. 139 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it, so, but um, it's 140 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: really humbling. You begin to realize how intensely people listen 141 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: or watch you to criticize and I will say going 142 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: off of that, we have this thing around here that 143 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: I highly recommend anybody who does want to get into 144 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: podcasting called q A Quality Assessments UM. And that's when 145 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: you listen back right and make sure there's no errors 146 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: or curse words, because we can get in big trouble 147 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: for that leaped cursewords. That's me, sorry, but it is 148 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: for everybody I know that does podcast. It is a 149 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: super stressful thing just hearing your words it which is 150 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: so interesting to be it. I'm going to go do 151 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: this thing where my whole career depends, all right, and 152 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: I have to listen to I don't sound real stupid. 153 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: We have to make sure if we don't say something 154 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: in appropriate yet and then or you just sound bumbly, yeah, 155 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: fumbling through your words. But gosh, I have to say 156 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: too though a lot of times I feel like I 157 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: did worse, and then when I hear it, maybe I'm 158 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: just so ready to think the worst that I wow, Okay, right, 159 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: I said sentences they made sense that I have had 160 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: friends tell me I'm very surprised about how well you did. 161 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, what, thanks, I will take it. I 162 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: will take it. Yeah, right, And Another part of this 163 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: whole thing too is I We've both talked about this 164 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: and I We've talked about it with other female podcasters. 165 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: Is this question of being enough. Um it kind of 166 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: hangs over everything, like like a shadow being not qualified enough, 167 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: not authentic enough, not likable enough, oh liable. When I 168 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: got offered this this job, I remember I wasn't expecting 169 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: it at all, and I curled in on myself and 170 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: tried to list all of the reasons why I wasn't qualified, 171 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: and my boss stopped me and was like, no, here's 172 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: what I see, right. I would say a huge yeah 173 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: to that. I'm still not sure what I'm doing, Like 174 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: I had questioned every day, why why am I doing this? 175 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: As well as first I came in as you know, 176 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: we did our guest series, and I'm like, I know 177 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: social work, so therefore I can give my two cents 178 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: to this, and I'm passionate about that. But as we're 179 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: going into this journey, my whole thing is can I 180 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: represent women well? Can I represent the female population? Can 181 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: I represent people of color? Can I represent adopted? Because 182 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: all of these things that I feel like, no, I'm 183 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: not good at being a human, You're very good at 184 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: being and then also just being again relatable or going beyond. 185 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: And also my constant fear of making a mistake. Constantly 186 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: are of offending someone that I have no intend of, 187 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: you know, and being more harmful than helpful. And it's 188 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: such a huge thing that I constantly battle it. Why 189 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: am I doing this? It's being on a and this 190 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons when I first started the 191 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: episode I want to do is bad feminism because being 192 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: on a feminist podcast, you do you don't want to 193 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: do more great, but you feel that responsibility and I 194 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: think that is a good thing, but it can hinder 195 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: you if you let it. So being aware of that 196 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: and trying to combat that with I can I am enough, 197 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: and I can be enough, and you're always learning and 198 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: growing and that is a good right. Yes, but all 199 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: of this brings us to imposter syndrome. Yes, but I 200 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: feel it comes up all the time on this show, 201 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: and there have been past episodes that are going to 202 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: go that went more in depth in it then we're 203 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: going to. But for the purpose of this episode, we 204 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: did want to give some quick definitions, as we like 205 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: from psychology today. Impostor syndrome is a psychological term referring 206 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: to a pattern of behavior where people doubt their accomplishments 207 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: and have a persistent, often internalized fear of being exposed 208 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: as a fraud. And this was first coined in nineteen 209 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: by two clinical psychologists and their definition was a feeling 210 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: of quote phoniness and people who believe that they are 211 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: not intelligent, capable, or creative despite evidence of high achievement. 212 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: These people also live in fear of being found out 213 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: or exposed as frauds, and their paper goes on to 214 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: include this, Since success for women is contraindicated by socital 215 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: expectations and their own internalized self evaluations, is not surprising 216 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: that women in our sample need to find explanation for 217 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: their accomplishments other than their own intelligence, such as fooling 218 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: other people and um, you might attribute your success to 219 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 1: too luck or timing or even looks things like that, Right, 220 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: I definitely will say, again, just pertaining to this podcast, 221 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: people I knew because I will say I was privileged 222 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: enough to have a network and connection to be here. However, 223 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: the part of that is also I've I guess I've 224 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: proven myself enough to you and then our boss that 225 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: I can maintain hopefully because I'm still very new. Who knows. 226 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: But all of that to say is like I'm here 227 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: by accident, and that's a definite part of holy crap, 228 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: what am I doing? Well? That's an interesting thing too, 229 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: is a lot of times when people ask me how 230 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: did you get into podcasting? And for me and most people, 231 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: I know, because most people at this company, well not 232 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: anymore because we've expanded so much, but a lot of 233 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: us got into it when it was kind of an 234 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: accident because it was a really new industry and none 235 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: of us were like we're going to get into podcasting. 236 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: It just kind of right, and so I feel like 237 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: I can give you advice, but it's such a different game. Know, Yeah, 238 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: when people ask me how do you get into it? 239 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: How did you do this? Because I did have someone 240 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: get really excited and they're like, oh, you want to 241 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: do this and I kind of just looked at them 242 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: like I already have a foundation that was created for me, 243 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: which is the privilege for me. That's it. Yeah, Yeah, 244 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: it's I mean, I'm I listeners. I will happily give 245 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: you advice. I just think it's hard to compare experiences, right, 246 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: I have like some other things. I can, I can 247 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: lend it bags on, but uh, and I remember the 248 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: first episode we did, Um, how are we failures? When 249 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: I when my friends heard that episode, some of them 250 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: are really upset because they told me I always looked 251 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: at you and thought you would never feel that way. 252 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: And the fact that you felt that way and I 253 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: feel that way, I can't. I cannot continue like listening 254 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: and knowing that and yeah, and that made me. I 255 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: just feel I think everyone feels this way right on 256 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: some level. And I think specifically for those who identifies female, 257 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: we've been taught to feel that way anyway, Like that's 258 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: an automatic thing, to be the second class citizen, be 259 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: the support and never be the face of so on 260 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: top of that, if we're not perfection, then we've failed. 261 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: That's the whole level. I don't think it's I just 262 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: read a quote from about my angel who talking about 263 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: how she felt like after reading like writing all of 264 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: these different things and still being like, I'm gonna be 265 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: found out as a fake. It's not. It's not abnormal. Yeah, 266 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: it isn't. And um, a lot of us probably remember this. 267 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: This statistic from a Hewlett Packard study. Men apply for 268 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: a job when they possess six of the qualifications, while 269 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: women only apply when they possess a hundred, and even 270 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: then still a question like maybe maybe maybe I don't 271 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: actually know how to do this. Uh. And some studies 272 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: do suggest that men and women experience imposter syndrome, which sidebars. 273 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: Some have also suggested that should be renamed imposture experience 274 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: are phenomenon, which was the original term, because it's not 275 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: a diagnosable mental or psychological syndrome. Um that maybe men 276 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: and women do experience it at the same rates, but 277 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: women are more open to being vulnerable and talking about it. 278 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: Society is not as accepting of men doing the same thing. 279 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: Other research suggests that men and women experience and express 280 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: it in different ways. One study found that while men 281 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: experiencing impostor syndrome were more likely to crumble under the pressure, 282 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: women were more likely to double down and excel. But 283 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: my question is to that do those women get rewarded 284 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: or recognized for that? And this also kind of relates 285 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: back to in a strange way in a way I 286 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: wasn't expecting to our conversation on body positivity, because there's 287 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: discussion around whether this again is an easy way to 288 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: shift the blad aim for lack of parity in professional 289 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: settings back onto women, as opposed to holding employers and 290 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: systemic sexism accountable. After all, if you don't experience some 291 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: level of doubt, I mean, why does that make you 292 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: son of overconfident, out of touch person seated right? Yeah, 293 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: exactly like if you They're just not seeing the world 294 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: as it is. Um. But I would argue that systemic 295 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: sexism fosters that feeling of being a fraud in women, 296 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: of not being enough as well. I think there's a 297 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: lot of pieces going on here, right, and it's not 298 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: just us, but many experts have said that your level 299 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: of feeling like an imposter is directly influenced by the 300 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: people in your life, the people who look like you 301 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: in your life. So if you enter an industry that's 302 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: mostly white men, then you're not going to feel as 303 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: confident for a lot of us. I won't say that's 304 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: true for everybody I know I've mentioned in earlier episodes, 305 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 1: but religion was one of the many things for me 306 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: to feel like I couldn't hold up to any standard, 307 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: like I was being told women were not made to 308 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: be leaders or be open and honest and to go 309 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: beyond then let's just support your whomever, your leader, your father, 310 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: your brother, your husband. And culture and religion are definite 311 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: proponents of imposter syndrome to me. I mean, don't get 312 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: me wrong. Religion alone isn't the issue. It's the overall 313 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: culture within. I think when we set up a gender 314 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: as this is the norm, I being again the supportive wife, 315 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: mother as the ultimate goal, or making sure you know 316 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: your place as as supportive female, this kind of causes 317 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: that mindset that we cannot go beyond that, and that 318 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: we can't exceed and become leaders ourselves, or that if 319 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: we did somehow get to that point is by mistake 320 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: or accidental or luck. And I think that's part of 321 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: the problem where we define normal in these sex whether 322 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: it's also kind of like you look at different dynamics 323 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: within um ethnicities in itself and it places women sometimes lower, 324 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: sometimes higher. You know, it gets into that whole level 325 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: of what is the expect patitions. So if you go 326 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: beyond that expectations are you supposed to be here? Can 327 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: you actually do it? Yeah? And for me this has 328 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: had a huge impact on my life because I didn't 329 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: move to the city I worked in for years, partly 330 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: because I thought I could be fired at any time 331 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: for not being qualified and and that's hours of my life. 332 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: I calculated commuting two thousand hours at least and living 333 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: with that undercurrent of I'm not good enough. I could 334 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: be found out at any moment is extremely detrimental to 335 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: your work and to your overall self esteem because, like 336 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: think about it, how likely are you to ask for 337 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: promotion or rays if you think you yourself think that 338 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: you are fraud even if you logically know that that's 339 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: not true. Right, we don't go into the mindset of 340 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: being paid what we're worth, but rather than proving that 341 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: what we can exceed that worth to get paid the same, 342 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: which is frustrating. I need money, someone to get me money. 343 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: It is very frustrating. Um, you know what. I actually 344 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: found an article linking a d h D to imposter syndrome. 345 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: They spoke about how people would diagnose a d h 346 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: D feel because they may have to put in a 347 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 1: lot more work or a lot more effort um and 348 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: a lot more organizational skills than those of those who 349 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: are not diagnosed with a d D that they are 350 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: not as successful or as talented. So meaning if it 351 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: doesn't come easy for them, then perhaps you're not talented 352 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: enough or good enough to do this, and so therefore 353 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be successful, which I thought it was an 354 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: interesting dynamic that whole idea of people who struggle, maybe 355 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: with a learning disability of any sorts, feel like you 356 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: can't accomplish something as someone who doesn't have a learning disability, 357 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: so therefore maybe not even try. And I've seen that 358 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: even when school work with children who have learning disability 359 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: that haven't been diagnosed, that they give up and then 360 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: they're just automatically called lazy, and therefore their expectation is 361 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: I can't do as well. So if I actually didn't 362 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: only do well, all that was just a coincidence, rather 363 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: than you can do this, you just have to do 364 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: it in your own way that works for you. That 365 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of when um Eves came on 366 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: before before you were a host, and we did an 367 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: episode on invisible disability and um some of the status 368 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: she had are similar to this, that if you have 369 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: something an invisible disability, like feeling that you're not enough 370 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: all the time, that often comes along with that. Well, 371 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: we do have some more for you, but first we're 372 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: gonna pause for a quick break for word from our sponsor, 373 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor, And we're back with 374 00:21:53,800 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: Vulnerability and the Price of Vulnerability exactly because being vulnerable 375 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: is an important part of at least this podcast, and 376 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: I would argue a lot of podcasts, and it's scary, 377 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: especially when you're being vulnerable about things that unfortunately frequently 378 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: come with the territory of being a woman, like sexual harassment, 379 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: sexual assault, UM and the therapy session we did is 380 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: a great example, the one that you can listen to. 381 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: You don't have to, though, no you don't, I mean, 382 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: can we put it out there? You want to be 383 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: vulnerable to make that personal connection, but that makes any 384 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: judgment feel much more personal. And that's not to mention 385 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: the real life impact of hearing something like that. It 386 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: doesn't go away after the recording light goes off. It 387 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: sticks with you, influences your life and people who might 388 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: listen to that episode for the first time years later 389 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: and email you about it or treat you about it 390 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: when you've totally forgotten it or moved on. UM. And 391 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: on top of that, I've been more open on this 392 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: show than I have been with most people in my 393 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: life because this is my job and because I want to. Um, 394 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 1: but it does come with the price, right, And I'm 395 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: thinking I loved one of the reviews that we had 396 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: about our therapy session about how it was the you know, 397 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: workings of the Lost Girls, the Lost Girls. We don't 398 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: need to start a club called the Lost Girls. I 399 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, he He's not wrong. No, 400 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: I don't know why I assumed it was that he 401 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: the way it made it sound like what his language, 402 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: So I apologize that it wasn't he, but that's what 403 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: I was almost like, I can't disagree. I can't disagree 404 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: because we're definitely opening up about the fact that we 405 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: don't know everything, and we definitely want people to know 406 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: we're not necessarily experts, but we can research, we can't research, 407 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: and we can be vulnerable. I'll never forget a professor 408 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: told me once, Um, I had kind of made this 409 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: very bold choice in a play and afterwards I was 410 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: really upset about it, and not because it went well, 411 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: but it's just painful. And um, he said, I I 412 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: wish for you that one day you would realize that 413 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: this is your strength, this is not a weakness. It's 414 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: nice it was really nice. But what's not nice going 415 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: back to is sexual harassment. That that is unfortunately a 416 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: part of this job when you're talking about social media 417 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: and reviews. Um. Almost all of the early negative reviews 418 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: about me called me a little girl. Um, they questioned 419 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: my authority, my credibility, said something about how I'm either 420 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: a sleat or apprud don't ask me how, um, which 421 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: when you have passed sexual trauma can be hugely damaging those. 422 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: One of the things about that is, uh, people don't 423 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: realize you're talking about someone else. Yeah, and they think 424 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: it just goes to avoid And I'm not really sure. 425 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: I guess that's whole like like impersonal interactions where you 426 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: don't remember there's an actual human being until you sit 427 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: down with someone and they just say whatever that the 428 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: hell they want because they don't see consequence, right, And 429 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: that's just a sad part of that too. Yeah. Um. 430 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: Some of some good advice from from my coworker, our coworker, 431 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: Lauren is she always says, remember it was just like 432 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: a shade of you, like it was a digital version 433 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: of you that they were criticizing that for one hour 434 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: that they don't know. So anyway, A question that has 435 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: come up in our office several times, and particularly from 436 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: me because I'm curious about it, is does this constitute 437 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: as sexual harassment when your job requires you to interact 438 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: with commenters or trolls that are it's actually harassing, you 439 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: can we just block them, Yeah, but you still have 440 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: to interact in some way. Um. And then there's the 441 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: credibility gap, which we have done past episodes on before. 442 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: This is really big when it comes to like women 443 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: in academics are science or even journalists sports sports journalist. Um. 444 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: And this is just that people tend to believe men 445 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: more than they believe women, that they that they know 446 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: what they're talking about more. Um. Apparently, when I was 447 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: researching this, I found academic recommendation letters written for women 448 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: contain more negative descriptors and less powerful positive ones. What Uh, 449 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: and researchers have looked into competency. Uh, do you know 450 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: to make sure that this wasn't you know, just the 451 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: men happened to be more competent. No, they had the 452 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: same set of skills, um, and women were rated more negatively. 453 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: And then this all kind of relates to the science 454 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: of a social podcast. Whenever in my experience anecdotally and 455 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: from other people here. UM, when you enter into what 456 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: is viewed as a traditionally male uh industry or kind 457 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: of knowledge area like science, UM, people just don't buy 458 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: that you know what you're talking about. And I know 459 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: I've talked about it many times, but we once didn't 460 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: experiment where we had the same content, one delivered by 461 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: a male host, one by a female host, and it 462 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: was obvious who they thought was more credible, who they 463 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: believed more And so why does all of this matter? Um? 464 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: Like we said at the top, this is a newish 465 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: medium and that means that it has the opportunity to 466 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: not make the same mistakes as other forms of media. 467 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: It's a space for marginalized voices to be heard to 468 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: each audiences that have been long ignored. And I can't 469 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: tell you how valuable I found this as a young 470 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,719 Speaker 1: woman from a small conservative town. It really did like 471 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: help shape a part of who I am now. That's 472 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: pretty important. And then from Anna of Two Dope Queens 473 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: and another round quote deciding whose points of view you 474 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: want to hear in which do you want to support? 475 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: It's not just an entertainment choice, it's also a political act. 476 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: I love the fact that, yeah, when it comes to podcast, 477 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: you choose what you want to hear, so therefore you 478 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: choose what you're going to be surrounded by. Yes, yeah, 479 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: I love that quote so much. Um, And we have 480 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: a tiny bit more for you, but first we're gonna 481 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: pause for one more quick break forward from our sponsor 482 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. And we wanted to 483 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: come to this final question I said, I guess is 484 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: how how do you find your voice? Then if there's 485 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: all of this stuff kind of hanging over you, getting 486 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: in the way of of you're feeling confident in who 487 00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: you are and what you can do, how do you 488 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: find your voice? And for for me, it's something that 489 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: I'm still working on, but a large part of it 490 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: has been accepting that I actually have a voice, and 491 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: then it as a value and if I make mistake, 492 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: I can learn from that and become better. Um that 493 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: I have strength and weaknesses. And I don't know how 494 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: you can grow. You can grow, and you don't have to. 495 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: I think it's great to listen to other podcasts and 496 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: pick out the things you like from them, but don't 497 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: try to imitate anyone or I mean, you can and 498 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: you can be successful that way. But if you're trying 499 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: to figure out your own voice, don't don't try to 500 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: compare yourself too much. Like take I like how they 501 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: presented this, or I things you like about it, and 502 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: then incorporate that learned from that, grow right. I think 503 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: for me, it's about passion. What are you passionate about? 504 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: And that's always kind of been my focus in life 505 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: in general. When you meet someone that is a passion 506 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: about something, if it's not the same thing as you, 507 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: you still catch on a little bit because it gets exciting. UM. 508 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's what it is to find a voice, 509 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: is to learn passion for other things outside of yourself. 510 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: But then when you are passionate, be honest with it, 511 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: be open with it. And I think that's you and 512 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: I got together because I'm very passionate about talking about 513 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: women and trauma. I'm very passionate and talking about social 514 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: justice for this identify as female, UM and those who 515 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: are marginalized in any least way whatsoever. And that's kind 516 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: of my whole niche UM And so finding my voices, 517 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: how do I represent something better or bigger? And that 518 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: is especially especially now, especially trying to find a way 519 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: out of this muck of because our culture right now 520 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: has so much such a divide and it's so painful. 521 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: Just looking beyond, can you find who else is fighting? 522 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: And that's one of my favorite things. It's finding the 523 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: voice to see who else is out there doing things 524 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: and you can make changes with and and hopefully get 525 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: a bigger picture of something. And obviously, as we've already spoken, 526 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 1: I've made many a mistakes. I've said things incorrectly, and 527 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: I've had people call me out and I love that. 528 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: I hate it, but I love it right in the 529 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: sense of like, Okay, now, let's fix it. And I 530 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,239 Speaker 1: think that's the most important thing is that we learn 531 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: and we grow together once again. And finding that voice 532 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: is being willing to learn. Yes, absolutely, And and we've 533 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: said this before in many episodes. UM learning to identify valuable, 534 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: trusted sources of criticism and compliments and then learning to 535 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: identify where your self doubt is coming from and working 536 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: on that. UM that's probably just good advice in general. 537 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: That's too real, it's too real. What else is too real? 538 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: Our recommendation good at transitions? I will take my own 539 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: compliment better at me one UM is work it w 540 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: e r K, I T Exclamation Point, um W n 541 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: y c S Annual Podcast Festival, and they have a 542 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: goal of getting to podcasts hosted by women relatively soon, 543 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: I think within like three years. Um. And they do 544 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: have programs I believe if you they will fund or 545 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: sponsor people to go. So if funding is a is 546 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: an issue, definitely check out there at their site and 547 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: see what opportunities are available to you. There's Spotify and Google. 548 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: They have programs designed to increase diversity and podcasting, including training, mentorship, 549 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: and the possibility of funding. And um, I would say, 550 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: and I love when listeners send in their podcast or 551 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: like they'll send in you know, I'm kind of thinking 552 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,479 Speaker 1: about doing this. I'd love some advice. Just get out 553 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: there and do it. And we would love keep on 554 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: sending us what you're doing. I love it. It's so 555 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: fun because people have some great ideas I never thought of. 556 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: I know, obviously I didn't think of this one either, thanks, questioned. 557 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a whole big world out there, like 558 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: we said, though, yeah, for those of us who are 559 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: on a bigger platform, stop reading criticisms and review That's 560 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: that's the joke, but it's true. It's the number one. 561 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,959 Speaker 1: When I found what you do, everybody was like stopping. 562 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, but I just I want to know what's happening. Um. 563 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: And I've learned people love to complain and people hate changes, 564 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: and that's fair. I do too. I hate changes too, 565 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: unless I'm the one who's making the change, right. Um 566 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, you talked about Lauren from saf your other 567 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: co host who was a part of our network. She 568 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: did I asked that the first thing I asked everyone. 569 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: I asked you, I asked Lauren, I asked Kristen and Caroline. 570 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you do with these types of criticism? 571 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: I already hate hearing myself talk and then having people 572 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: voice how awful we are is It's just detrimental like 573 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: it for me because I want to please everyone and 574 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: make everyone happy and and be the best of everything, 575 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: which obviously I'm not. But she was just talking about that. 576 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: You have to once again talk about it. It's just 577 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: the shade. It's just the personality that you portray as well. 578 00:33:52,800 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: Ask people are um displacing projecting apter People are projecting 579 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: onto you their own insecurities or their own fears, or 580 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: that what they you know, despise about whatever, and it's 581 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: not about you, And I'm having to be like, Okay, 582 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: you're right, You're right. I have to hear that, I 583 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: have to hear that this is not this is a 584 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: bigger picture than me as an individual. Um. But I 585 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: guess it's so weird because overall I kind of want 586 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: to just not I've grown up wanting to be under 587 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: the radar and to all of a sudden not beyond 588 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: under the radar. Not that I'm big or famous or anything, 589 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: but it's just kind of like, this is super weird. 590 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: It is. It takes some adjusting, a lot of adjusting. Yeah, 591 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: I have. I think I've mentioned it on this show 592 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: because I love it so much. I have a modern 593 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: art montage of my favorite insults I've ever received. I'm 594 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: hoping to get it frames. Oh my gosh. When I 595 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: first started one of my jobs, UM, I was reading 596 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: through the reviews of our podcast and listener Mail. UM 597 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: I said that in the mean way, I love listener Mail, 598 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: but it was way too much. It was way too much, 599 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 1: um and it is brutal the reviews. I remember reading 600 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: them for Stuff you Missed in History Class, which was 601 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: hosted by two intelligent articulate women, and a decent chunk 602 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: of those reviews were just tearing down their voices. And 603 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: I internalized to that that was one of our most 604 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: popular shows. And I was like, but look at all 605 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: of this negativity, and I when I was comparing myself 606 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: to them, I thought I could never I'm not as 607 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: good as them. What would happen if I was hosting this? 608 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, that that holds you back, if you I mean, 609 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: I eventually got past it, luckily, but uh, those hosts, 610 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: by the way, they left because of that. Yeah, y'all 611 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: don't we mean? But you know what, I will come 612 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: back and say the the compliments and the people who 613 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: have been really supportive, because we've definitely gotten a lot 614 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: of those as well. Yes, those are some of my 615 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: I will say the last few I did read it again, 616 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: I'm a bad example of myself, but have been really nice. 617 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: Oh and it's so valuable. Right, So, I don't think 618 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: we've said it before. I'll say to I don't think 619 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: we can express how much it means to just even 620 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: in a little note. He right, right, thank you for trying. 621 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,479 Speaker 1: You're doing good. That's a backhanded compliment. Again, I would 622 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: take it, but yes, I'm trying to think of someone 623 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: actually said that. Thank you for trying. That's something you 624 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: say when you're like trying to open a pickle jar. 625 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: That's what I usually say to kids who have like 626 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: not done so well in their grace. Maybe I'm like, 627 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: you tried, and I'm proud of you, but it's true. 628 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: It's true for effort I say, I always say good effort. 629 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: I think you should put in some effort and not 630 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 1: the minimum effort we're getting off. Sorry, but no. Yeah, 631 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: I think in general, having those types of things coming 632 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: back at us, and just having people message us in 633 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: a personal manner, calling us a by our first name, 634 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: and then agreeing or disagreeing whatever, it's really nice to 635 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: It feels like I'm talking to my friends when people 636 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: are like it's like I have these best friends in 637 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 1: my ear and my heart is always so warm. So 638 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: we love you and you're very valuable. Thank you for listening, 639 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: and thank you for caring about us even though we 640 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 1: feel like we're not doing it right sometimes. Yes, um, 641 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: and we're all learning and growing together, and we as 642 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: this industry does grow, I hope that it does get 643 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: did not follow in the footsteps of other entertainment industries 644 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: and that we can see a lot more podcast um 645 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: from diverse groups of people and and listeners. I believe 646 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: that some of you are listening right now and you're 647 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: going to have a super successful podcast, and that makes 648 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: us really happy. And in the meantime, if you would 649 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: like to send us one of those wonderful notes or 650 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: your podcast ideas or suggestions, or if you want advice, 651 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,399 Speaker 1: then you can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff 652 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: at iHeart media dot com. You can also find us 653 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram at 654 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our 655 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard Andrew, and thanks to you for 656 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: listening Stuff I've Never Told his protection of I Heart 657 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcast from my Heart 658 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: Radio with the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 659 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.