WEBVTT - Grief Author Murder Trial: Kouri Ritchins’ Ex-Lover Takes the Stand 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, March fifth, and what 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.440 a day in the Corey Richands murder trial, the so 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:15.880 called grief author murder trial. The boyfriend of the woman 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.240 on trial was on the stand yesterday and it was 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.560 more emotional than maybe folks had anticipated with that. Welcome 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.480 to this episode of Amy and TJ. Roapes. He was 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.960 the most anticipated witness, right, even if he might not 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:31.040 be the most important. 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.479 Yes, I think the most important witness was at the 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.560 end of last week when we heard from the housekeeper 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.160 of Corey Richins, who claims that she secured the fentanyl 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.080 for Corey, who then, according to prosecutors, gave it to 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:49.440 her husband, first in a sandwich that was a failed attempt, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.760 and then eventually in a Moscow mule which ended up 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.560 with him having five times the lethal limit a fentanyl 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.160 in a system. So, yes, she was important, But now 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.920 we're hearing the why this is going towards the motive. 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.360 Prosecutors say she wanted money and she wanted her man, 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.280 and her man was Joshua Robert Joshua Grossman. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.640 Yeah, this is very important as far as establishing motive. Yet, 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:20.280 and I didn't know I was expecting I suppose more questions, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.000 and it seemed like they weren't to get a lot 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.400 of stuff in evidence and have him confirm a bunch 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.160 of their communications. But this was essentially Robert Joshua Grossman 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:32.840 sitting up their robes looking through a lot of their 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.919 text messages. But it gave us insight into their relationship. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:38.680 Where her head was and where his head was. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.320 Yeah, it was really fascinating to watch. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.679 So they put up all of their text messages in 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.120 the month and then the weeks leading up to Eric 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:52.360 Richand's death, and we're all reading them on the screen 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.480 along with the jurors. And then they'll throw a shot 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.640 of the ex boyfriend and he had his head on 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.120 the table. He was not looking, he was covering his 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:04.639 eyes and when he would lift his head. 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.600 Up he'd be wiping tears. 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.880 He I mean, this is it was four years ago 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.560 to the day that Eric Richards died. And to see 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.480 that emotional impact of just seeing those texts and where 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.079 he was. I mean, this was a man who seemed 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.120 to be deeply in love with Corey Richins and hoping 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:24.639 to spend the rest of his life with her. 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.799 I mean, they finally got him to admit on the 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.800 stand and maybe that was a little pie in the sky, 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.640 but based on some of these writings, robes absolutely he 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.040 was in to this woman in a major way. A 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.040 reminder here, Corey Richards out in Utah Park City, Utah, 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.480 accused of killing her husband in March of twenty twenty 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.840 two by giving him that laced drink. She claims he 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.440 must have gotten somewhere else. He had pain pills he used, 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.480 he had THC gummies he used, So she's claiming maybe 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.000 he did it to himself or took it himself, but 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:57.120 the prosecution doesn't believe that's the case, saying she poisoned him. 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.320 And then I guess robes the other part after that, 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.160 and the reason they call the grief author murder trial. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.360 I guess some of those details are the ones that 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.040 are really often make headlines and have people interested in 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:07.520 this story. 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:12.160 That's right, because she actually published wrote and published a 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.760 book about helping children get through the grief of losing 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:21.440 a parent, and she had actually been on local television stations, 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:26.600 local radio promoting her book, and then within weeks of 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:32.000 that book promotion, she's arrested for murdering the. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:32.760 Father of her children. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.960 Yeah, I can't make this stuff up. You cannot, yeah, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.120 make it app So this is where we are. She's 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.200 facing and wild as it is roads you should mention, yes, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.840 she's facing a murder charge, but also an attempted murder 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.520 charge because they say she failed the first time. She 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:48.000 tried to get it. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.920 Right with that sandwich that she tried to give or 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:52.960 she did give him and he ate but apparently he 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.560 was able to survive it by he just was texting 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.080 her saying hey, and we've seen the text admitted into 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.480 court where he's telling her, I feel terrible. I might 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:03.960 have to go to the hospital. He ended up giving 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.200 himself an EpiPen and taking some benadryl and sleeping it 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.920 off and surviving it. So yeah, according to prosecutors, two 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.200 weeks later, she tried again and was successful. 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.120 It's a weird thing to think rogues and it's not 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.640 a comedian would make a joke about it. What would 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.400 she try next if the drink didn't work? What is 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.200 the next thing she's going to serve him? What other 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.279 dish is there? What other right? It seemed like she 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.400 was determined to kill. Excuse me, she's accused. She is innocent. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.240 To approven guilty, but based on the prosecution storyline, this 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.159 moment was determined to kill this guy. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.400 Yes, and it's really you know, you look at her, 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:42.200 she looks. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.000 Like this girl next door, your next door neighbor, mom 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.640 of three, real estate agent. It's just she doesn't fit 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:51.599 the type of someone who you would think would be 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.560 capable of something like this. And then to actually yesterday 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:59.039 was so fascinating hearing from her then boyfriend and to 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.480 see the text. She didn't give him one indication that 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.440 she was headed in this direction. They were talking about 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.080 her getting a divorce, her needing time because she didn't 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.880 want to break up her family, and she absolutely kept 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.080 her boyfriend her lover, in the dark in terms of 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.240 her plans. If she in fact did murder Eric Richards, 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.039 she certainly didn't let him know. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:23.400 That's where she was headed. 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.320 But there were other things the prosecution is trying to 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.200 piece together that seemed to allude to certain dates. We'll 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.760 get into that into a second. But Romes I didn't know, 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.160 but he explained on the stand how they met in 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.440 the first place, and it was all because of a 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:36.520 help wanted add. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.320 Yes, so they met in South Carolina. 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.240 He answered the help wanted ad because she was flipping 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.159 homes down there. So we started working with her, and 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.599 I believe he ended up. He said that it was 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.640 purely platonic for the first couple of years. I think 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.240 he said they met even in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.120 so quite a while ago. But he ultimately moved to 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.880 Utah in twenty twenty to work with her. But he 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.920 said before he moved to Utah, things turned romantic. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.800 And I was, this is odd. He starts working with 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.760 her robes, but he didn't. He wasn't necessarily an employee. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.880 It was interesting to hear the arrangement they had. I 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:15.720 guess once they started dating. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.280 Yeah, so he had his He talked about he had 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.919 his dog with him and he would live in the 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.280 house that they were flipping, and so kind of basically 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.279 he was he was working for shelter and food and 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:28.880 a car. 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:29.320 He said. 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.880 She bought him a vehicle, two vehicles actually, so she 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.960 said she would give him cash here and there. But 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.400 it wasn't as if he was on the payroll. He 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.120 wasn't paying taxes. It wasn't as if he was a 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.560 formal or yeah, a formal employee. It was like kind 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.560 of her paying him on the side and letting him 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:49.839 live in these homes. 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.000 And that's a part of understanding where his head was 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.960 and what, or at least how he felt about her. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.039 He said it on the stand. I liked her, so 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.679 I worked for free, he said. And as this thing built. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.200 If you said it once, rogue, you said it fifty times. 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.280 While he was testifying, Oh, I feel bad for this 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.760 guy because it did up there. He seemed like a 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.400 love sick puppy. 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:17.679 He did. Look, this is a look. He is a guy. 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.600 He has a formidable appearance. He was in a rock 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.200 war veteran, a good looking guy, kind of like that 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.200 blue collar almost as if, I hate to say this, 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.640 but like, oh, almost a suburban bored, suburban wife's fantasy. 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.160 You go and you meet this kind of rugged, handsome 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:39.120 war vet who has his dog. He's good with his hands, 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.360 he can build things, he can fix things. 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:43.120 And so let me a watch. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.720 But doesn't that sound like the beginning of a romance novel. 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.080 I'm not sure that you are familiar with them, but 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.960 I can tell you that this is actually I was 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.040 thinking this as I was watching. It was almost as 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:59.000 if it was It was like a stereotypical affair in 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.640 a way, like a board housewife looking for some hot, 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.920 blue collar guy who's gonna love her and not talk 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.960 too much, not want to go too deep about anything philosophical, 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:09.920 just like. 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:11.280 Fine or sex. 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.080 Never would have thought that, Yeah, that's. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.040 What it looked like to me. 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.400 And it looks like he fell hard for her, and 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.960 he was still so emotional. She was stonefaced by the 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.960 way because they would cut to her, and he even 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:23.960 kind of he looked at her at one point and said, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.880 this is the first time I've seen her since twenty 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:28.960 twenty three and since they broke up, and they broke 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.000 up several months before she was arrested. But I felt 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.719 so bad for him. And look, I think when you're 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.320 hearing the story as a juror, you're feeling terrible for 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:44.000 Eric Richins if you believe that she actually committed this crime, 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.160 and it almost honestly, having him on the stand, looked 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.440 like this is a woman who basically manipulated two men 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.320 who were both wanting to be with her. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.720 Yes, that if nothing else, And a lot of the 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:58.800 messages we read and some of the back and forth 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.440 is stuff to be expect, and folks already knew they 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.520 were in a relationship. I don't know how impactful some 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.720 of that is, but ro I told her from an 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:12.160 emotional standpoint, seeing that guy, mm hmm, I was upset 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:12.560 with her. 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.160 He was so genuine. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:16.480 Because so much of the messages and so much of 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.800 what we did see was I don't want to say, 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.680 leading him on, But certainly what I even found a 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.200 lot of it wasn't she apologetic the way she couldn't 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.000 spend so much time with him? She was? 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.360 She kept saying, I'm so sorry. You deserve more than this. 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.320 At one point it looked as though and the defense 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.520 really tried to hone in on this. You know, wasn't 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.840 she breaking up with you? Weren't you before Eric Richards died? 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.280 But I think she was just basically acknowledging that he 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.920 was only getting, you know, just a few drips and 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.600 drops from her. She wasn't able to give him the 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.040 time he deserved. But he's told her I'm in love 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.959 with you. And then she said, if I weren't married, 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.600 would you marry me tomorrow? And he said, of course 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:57.040 I would. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.319 Well, she goes on and reciprocates, at one time, I'm 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.160 in love with a man that's not my husband. She 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.920 says that to him and the guy on the stand, 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.120 I mean, he kind of admitted maybe I go head 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.400 over heels more than most. But they asked him directly, 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.120 do you believe that she loved you too? And he 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.120 said yeah, genuinely, like yes, I know when. 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.120 He said this, big gruff guy says, I have a 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.679 tendency for going head over heels, maybe more than most. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.440 The whole there was just something so heartfelt about that. Yeah, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.079 I just I felt for him. 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.520 But I thought one of the worst texts that they 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.120 were able to put up there for jurors to hear 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.920 was where Corey Richins talked about wanting to just be 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:38.440 with him. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.400 She said, if he meeting Eric, her husband, if. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.280 He could just go away and you could just be here, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.200 life would be so perfect. 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.920 I get the refusal on trial for cheating, that would 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.959 be awful. Does that suggest murder? We have seen robes, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.160 We've covered enough trials in the past six months that 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.400 we have seen some Google surgers and text messages much 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.439 more damning than some of these we saw. But they 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.800 established whatever they wanted to, But the thing didn't make 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.400 a difference to you, at least from a case from 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:14.760 an evidence standpoint, is it circumstantial the messages surrounding when 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.520 they were supposed to meet for brunch and have mimosas. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.079 This timing of that was strange. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.040 Okay, I'm thinking that she Look, this is a woman 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:27.280 who was if she is guilty, she was manipulating everyone 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.200 because she didn't let her lover in on her plans. 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.400 She made him think about a year from now, maybe 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:37.080 I could get divorced. So she wasn't saying anything that 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.720 would insinuate that she was planning. What prosecutors say, she 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.680 was very actively planning. So if she was planning that 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.520 would it also make sense that she was planning to 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.160 have brunch plans with her lover the day Eric died 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.080 that morning to celebrate a big real estate deal that 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.200 was about to go through that day as well. So 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.760 why would she If she did ill her husband and 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:02.880 plan this all out, why would she choose to do 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.240 it the morning and the morning hours or the night 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.640 before this big day? She had set up a big 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.520 celebratory day where she was closing on this house she 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.280 had been working on closing for many many months, and 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.320 going to celebrate with her lover. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.520 Could she have thought that this would be. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.719 Something that police would look at, investigators will and say, oh, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.160 there's no way she would do that. Look at what 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.360 this big day was that she had planned. Why would 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.760 she have done that. That wouldn't make any sense. She 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.640 knew that it was going to come out, probably that 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:33.720 she was involved. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.719 In an affair, So it doesn't make sense for her 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.600 to have planned if she planned to have that brunch, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.480 that would lend itself to suggesting not guilty. Is that 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:45.120 what we're saying. 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.360 Yeah, so maybe she planned it so it would look 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:47.640 like it. 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.840 So if it there, then it's you're saying, she's probably 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.400 guilty because this is now you're talking about a lot 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.560 of manipulation and planning and surrounding this death, even looking 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.240 to manipulate the police. That that suggests an extensive amount 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:03.120 of preparation. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.280 Yeah, I mean she had to think maybe, because look, 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.199 she her Google searches. I'm piecing this together. Her Google 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.199 searches were ken police, you know, look at your phone 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.120 and look at your messages. So she was probably thinking, 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.920 they are almost certainly going to find out that I 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:17.760 was having an affair and. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.800 Then me give us some break, crumps, Yes, give them break. Crumps. 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.240 It was the last thing here on him, just wrote. 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.400 Seeing him yesterday was at times a little devastating. We 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.080 mentioned that the he got upset, he was crying several times. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.320 They at times when they were just showing on the 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.560 screen at least we were seeing just the text messages 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:44.320 like a close up reading. Whoever's controlling the cameras did 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:48.000 a cutaway to show him with his head down. 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:48.800 It was devastating. 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.480 He stopped reading them and that's I'm sure he hasn't 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.400 read that stuff in years. And to go back and 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.240 put himself in that position to where he was, he 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.160 seemed like he was head over heels for this woman. 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.120 Oh, that was devastating. But also of note. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.040 She asked him, and he said, we both went whoa. 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.040 Towards the end, he said, she asked him if he'd 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.520 ever killed anybody and how did it make him feel? 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.720 And he had been in a rock that so, he said, 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.200 looking back now, that might be a little weird. At 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:20.600 the time, he didn't think anything of it, but he 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.440 has the hindsight now is at the end of the 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.240 world again. It's all circumstantial, right, It's all circumstance. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.440 It all looks bad It's another piece in the puzzle, 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.040 and it helps durers get a fuller picture when they're 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.920 making their decisions. So I thought this was actually fascinating. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.800 Also asking him about illicit drug use, she was asking 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.520 him if he ever did anything more than marijuana. All 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.800 of that now seems interesting given how prosecutors say she 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:44.280 killed her husband. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:48.240 Interesting. No smoking gun quite just yet. But this wasn't 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.360 the only emotion and also not the only drama in 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:57.880 the courtroom yesterday. There was outside of the presence of 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.480 the jury a pretty interesting back and forth between the 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:07.080 prosecution lawyers and the defense lawyers, including a flat out 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:12.640 accusation of one side misbehaving when it comes to the jury. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:24.280 Stay here, Welcome back, everyone to this episode of Amy 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.160 and TJ, where we have been glued to the coverage 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.000 and watching the trial of Corey Richins. She is the 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.640 thirty five year old mom of three who was accused 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.360 of poisoning, first attempting to poison her husband and then 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.880 successfully poisoning her husband with fentanyl, and then writing a 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.800 book helping her children deal with the grief of losing 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.920 their father so that she could help children everywhere who 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.160 have lost a loved one. She was arrested a few 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.080 weeks after that book was published, and now she is 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.440 on trial for Eric Richards's murder. Saw her lover on 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.480 the stand yesterday. But as you said before the break, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.000 this was not the only drama in the courtroom we 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:08.840 saw yesterday. 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.000 I didn't see this coming. We're used to at the 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.640 end of a try. Actually, it's usually the end of 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.360 the prosecution making their case the defense. It's customary they 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.440 get up and make a motion for a dismissal. We 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:27.600 move for mistrial. Right, It's never granted, never almost. 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:28.720 I've never seen it. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.200 Not a one oh right. That's a pretty high bar. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.320 So the prosecution is still putting on its case. But yesterday, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.600 outside of the presence of the jury, this threw me. 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.160 They always have some back and forth, they need to 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.400 work out an issue, and these lawyers have more issues, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.960 it seems to work out than most. But there was 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.160 an issue that the defense said they received a text 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:55.000 message which said that Carmen Lawber, the housekeeper who got 0:16:55.040 --> 0:17:00.840 the drugs for Corey Richards, Carmen Lawber, had had a 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.840 violation in drug court. Why is that a big deal, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.720 Because the defense says, we didn't know about it. Ahead 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.840 of time, which could have changed how we prosecuted our case. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:18.000 The prosecution had the burden to tell us. They didn't 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.399 and Roe, she explained it in about sixty seconds and 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:23.800 I didn't know where it was going. Then she all 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.400 of a sudden, we immediately moved for a mistrial. What yeah, 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.680 because ro, this is a big deal. If you withhold evidence. 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.000 Yes, if the prosecution withheld the fact that carbon Lauber 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:39.320 violated drug court, yeah, that would be that would change 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.320 perhaps how they cross examined her, what they held her 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.919 accountable for. It would call into question her credibility even further, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:52.120 which they already tried to erode. But the prosecutor's response was, yeah, 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.600 I don't know what you're talking about, wasn't us Yeah, I. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.360 Don't know what text she's talking about. You all have had. 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.600 And then they went through, this information has been out there, 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.159 it's been in Then they said, we gave it to 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.080 you several days ago. Was part of this. And so 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.560 the judge in that moment said, look, you're gonna have 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.399 to put this in writing. He said, I'm not going 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.240 to shoot from the hip, is what he said. So 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.159 I'm not going to rule right here, right now, on 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.480 a mistrial something like this. So they waiting on him, 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.280 so it might be very interesting when they start today. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:19.639 Correct. 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.639 So the trial continued as planned with him considering this, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.240 and yes, we'll hear on what he rules on later. 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:30.399 He did, though, make a ruling on the other claim 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.959 that the defense made. The defense was claiming that the 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:39.560 prosecution was making faces at the jury to try and 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.400 sway them in their direction. 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.560 I didn't hear. I don't know how you make a 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.120 face to sway, but they said during cross examination, when 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.680 the defenses up there cross examining, they're getting reports that 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:57.199 the prosecution at times just making faces in reaction to 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.760 whatever is going on with the defense at times. How 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.400 do they know this? Television? 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.440 They said, people who are watching TV somehow let them 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:12.439 know that they have seen the prosecution. So yes, like 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.800 perhaps just I'm guessing when they're cross examining and say 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.440 the defense attorney says something crazy, they're looking at the 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.400 jury like, uh huh, really right, Like that's what I'm 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:23.960 assuming they're talking about. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.439 I don't know, A weink, a nod of rolling of 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:31.399 the eyes, I don't know. I loved that the judge 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.399 didn't necessarily entertain this much. 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.879 Yeah, he shot it down, but he's gonna need he 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:37.840 hasn't seen anything. 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:39.600 He's like, I'm looking at the prosecution. 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:41.760 And his point was I have a better view than 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:43.680 even the cameras, and I haven't seen a damn thing, 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.719 and so yeah, you got to give me more than that. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:48.639 And he was about to let it go. They have 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.919 now agreed to go back and get time stamps and 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.600 going to bring into the judge of the faces roads. 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:55.240 I can't wait for the starter quars. 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.560 I hope they have like a time stamp and then 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:01.880 like a freeze frame, like a a snapshot of whatever 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.760 these faces are they claim. Look, I wonder, though, I 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.560 wonder if you, just as a human being react, I 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.120 don't have a poker face. I do not, So when 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.760 someone says something that sounds fishy or a bunch of 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.320 bs or something seems ridiculous, you're probably gonna see it 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.560 on my face. Now, did they turn their faces to 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.879 the jury and do that? Are you not allowed to 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.199 have a human reaction to something if you hear it 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.640