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Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before

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Speaker 1: we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that

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Speaker 1: the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those

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Speaker 1: of the host and guests and are intended for educational

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Speaker 1: and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is

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Speaker 1: off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can

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Speaker 1: be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to

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Speaker 1: celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,

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Speaker 1: providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will

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Speaker 1: be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a

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Speaker 1: reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do

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Speaker 1: enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: On this week's episode of the Professional Homegirl Podcast, we

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Speaker 2: dive into the incredible story of a woman who uncover

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Speaker 2: a life alter and family secret. Now she always believed

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Speaker 2: she knew her mother until a shock and discovery revealed

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Speaker 2: that her mother had been passing as white, leaving behind

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Speaker 2: her black identity. In this powerful conversation, she shares her

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Speaker 2: emotional journey on unraveling the truth, confronting her mother's past,

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Speaker 2: and redefining her own sense of self. Tune in as

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Speaker 2: we explore race, family and the wait of hidden histories,

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Speaker 2: and my mom lived her life passing as a white woman.

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Speaker 2: Starting now, all right, to my guests, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for being on a show. How you doing, how

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Speaker 2: you feeling?

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Speaker 3: I am doing really well. Good. Thanks for having me

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Speaker 3: on the show.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I was just telling her you all before

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Speaker 2: we started the episode that I really enjoyed your book.

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Speaker 2: I just really enjoyed your story, very inspiring.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, before we dive into your personal journey, I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about your background as a mystery writer.

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Speaker 2: So you spent many years crafting intricate plots and solving

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Speaker 2: fictional puzzles, but in many ways, you ended up uncovering

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Speaker 2: the biggest mystery of your life. So did you feel

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Speaker 2: as if your skills is a mystery writer help you

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Speaker 2: navigate the shock and discovery about your mother's racial identity?

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Speaker 3: Yes? And no. Well, actually, the initial discovery was a

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Speaker 3: shock that I was not prepared for, yeah at all.

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Speaker 3: But as I started my own research and started putting

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Speaker 3: pieces together, that's when more than mystery writer skills came

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Speaker 3: into play. And you know, it's funny you asked that question, because,

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Speaker 3: as you know, I was on Genealgie Road Show, and

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Speaker 3: that show used to beyond PBS, and you have to

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Speaker 3: fill out a form to be on. So I started

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Speaker 3: out my form was saying, I'm a mystery author who

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Speaker 3: has a mystery in her own family she can't solve

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Speaker 3: with any certainty. And they love that.

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Speaker 2: They thought, oh, okay, is this the biggest story that

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Speaker 2: you uncovered as far as a mystery writer your own?

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Speaker 3: Yes, short of anyone getting murdered. Right, No one got

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Speaker 3: murdered when I was uncovering.

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Speaker 2: This, right now, did you know about racial passing and

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Speaker 2: insignificance in America before you knew about your mother's story?

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Speaker 3: I did. I don't know what year this was. Imitation

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Speaker 3: of Life. Do you remember that movie that was a

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Speaker 3: big deal? I think it was.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't in black and white, I no, I think.

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Speaker 3: It was in color. The second one. The first one was,

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Speaker 3: you're right, I'm thinking of the one I saw as

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Speaker 3: a young person, and so that made me very aware

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Speaker 3: of that of passing. And but you know, I was

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Speaker 3: being aware of it, and then find out your mother

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Speaker 3: is passing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. I was so excited about your conversation,

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Speaker 2: and I was speaking to my best friend about it,

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Speaker 2: and she told me how her great grandmother passed and

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Speaker 2: she learned about it, and I was like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 2: Like it's like I feel like now racial pass is

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Speaker 2: like starting to come to the forefront of a lot

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Speaker 2: of conversation when it comes to race.

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Speaker 3: I think you're right. However, when my mother was passing, no,

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Speaker 3: you never reveal that you know family members, never to

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Speaker 3: reveal another family member is passing. That's sort of an

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Speaker 3: unwritten rule, right because it could be dangerous. My mom

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Speaker 3: was born in New Orleans in nineteen twenty one, so

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Speaker 3: we still had segregation and a lot of violence toward

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Speaker 3: people of color. I'm just lynchings things like that. So

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Speaker 3: back then, in my mother's era, you didn't talk about that.

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Speaker 2: Do you think passing still happens in different forms today?

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Speaker 3: I do. I don't have any evidence of that, but

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Speaker 3: I would guess it does. Yeah, I would think so.

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Speaker 2: So, looking back, do you think your mother would have

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Speaker 2: understood why you chose to share her story?

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not sure. There's a part of me

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Speaker 3: that thinks, yes, she totally would want this, because she

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Speaker 3: always wanted me to speak up about injustice of any kind,

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Speaker 3: and she would you know she could say something, so

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Speaker 3: I think, in one hand, yes, she would have. But

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Speaker 3: then when I did confront her in nineteen ninety seven

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Speaker 3: with all my evidence that she was passing, she swore

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Speaker 3: me to secrecy. She you know I had. It was

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Speaker 3: after my father's death, so I had visit her. I

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Speaker 3: asked her to visit me in Illinois. I grew up

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Speaker 3: in Ohio. So when I told her, Mom, I have

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Speaker 3: your birth certificate, because I did right to the State

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Speaker 3: of Louisiana for my mother's birth certificate. I pretended I

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Speaker 3: was my mother and I lost my birth certificate, and

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Speaker 3: so of course they sent it to me. And on

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Speaker 3: her birth certificate in parentheses are three letters col me

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Speaker 3: is colored, right, So just to be sure, because I'm

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Speaker 3: a researcher, I sent another letter to the State of

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Speaker 3: Louisiana and said, would you explain what col means to

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Speaker 3: the state, And they sent me a really long letter

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Speaker 3: and they said, in most instances, col means a person

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Speaker 3: of color, and many times a person of African descent.

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Speaker 3: So I had my evidence, and when I said to

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Speaker 3: my mom, I have the birth certificate, she she got

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Speaker 3: very angry. She said, I don't know a birth certificate

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Speaker 3: you have, but mine says I'm white. So I took

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Speaker 3: a beat and I because I could see she was upset,

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Speaker 3: and then I said, well, mom, I've got your birth certificate.

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Speaker 3: I have some other documentation I like to show you,

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Speaker 3: and it does not say you're white. So she got

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Speaker 3: very very quiet, like she kind of shrunk into herself.

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Speaker 3: And then she looked at me and she said, you

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Speaker 3: can never tell anyone until after I die, because how

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Speaker 3: will I hold my head up with my friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's how much fear and shame she was caring. And

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Speaker 3: then I said I only had one sibling, my brother's

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Speaker 3: recently died.

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Speaker 1: But I said, can I do?

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Speaker 3: Is very sad. I said, well, can I tell my brother?

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Speaker 3: And she said no, not even him. I did not

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Speaker 3: feel good about keeping this secret. What I thought in

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Speaker 3: my mind, though, was it's not my secret, it's hers.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to honor what she wants. And she

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Speaker 3: lived a long time. She lived in ninety two, So

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Speaker 3: I kept your secret for seventeen years.

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Speaker 2: That's a long time to keep a secret. Ninety two years.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and then the only people I told, of course,

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Speaker 3: I felt I had to tell my husband and my

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Speaker 3: two children. And then I had a very good friend

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Speaker 3: that I shared it with, but that was it. I

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Speaker 3: didn't tell any God.

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Speaker 2: Bless your mother, because I've been reading a lot about

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Speaker 2: like racial pasts and stuff, and I think you wrote

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Speaker 2: in your book you was like a lot of times

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Speaker 2: people racial pass for just security and for a better life,

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Speaker 2: and I can only imagine how painful that was for

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Speaker 2: her to leave her community and just her family behind.

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Speaker 3: It was in some ways, but in other ways. I

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Speaker 3: don't think as much for maybe someone who was very

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Speaker 3: tight with their family. My mother came from a very

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Speaker 3: chaotic family. She was not raised by either parent, so

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Speaker 3: she was sort of shuffled around to grandmas and so

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Speaker 3: I think that might have made it easier for her. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But I don't know, because every time I tried to

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Speaker 3: talk to her, oh god, yeah, yeah, she would say

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Speaker 3: to me what I would bring a she go, so

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Speaker 3: how are the kids?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I know she's not going.

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Speaker 2: To tell me so right. Well, And of course her

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Speaker 2: daughter discover her.

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Speaker 3: Truth, yeah, absolutely. And not only did I discover it,

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Speaker 3: I decided to write.

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Speaker 2: About it, I know, and go on National TV.

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Speaker 3: On National TV, and as you would say, I outed

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Speaker 3: my mother. Yeah, on national TV, which you know, I

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Speaker 3: struggle with that a little bit, but till then. No,

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Speaker 3: when I initially decided to go on television, but then

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Speaker 3: I justified it by thinking, well, she said until I die.

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Speaker 3: So she was deceased. She died in twenty fourteen, and

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Speaker 3: that opportunity to be on PBS's genealogy road show was

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Speaker 3: game three months after her death. That's how close it was.

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Speaker 3: So I thought, okay, well I kept the vow. I

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Speaker 3: did it, so now it's time. Yeah. And I also

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Speaker 3: thought this would help other people.

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Speaker 2: You know, no, I think so. I believe so too.

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Speaker 2: So how did this affect you personally? Because I know

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Speaker 2: in the book you mentioned how you had questions about

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Speaker 2: your own identity.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it took me a long long time to figure

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Speaker 3: out my identity. And you know, over since the book

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Speaker 3: came out and I've been on the Today Show, I

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Speaker 3: get Initially, I got a lot of email through my website,

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Speaker 3: and most of it was positive. I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: but there were always people who question my motives, who

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Speaker 3: thought I was after something that I wasn't so, and

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Speaker 3: then then every time I did a presentation or I

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Speaker 3: was on television or the radio, I could count on

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Speaker 3: one question. Now that you know your heritage, how do

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Speaker 3: you racially identify? Right? Everyone wanted to know that. So

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Speaker 3: in the beginning, I thought the best way to identify too,

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Speaker 3: because I hadn't suffered at racism, Look at me as

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Speaker 3: white as can be. Yeah, so you know, I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to get up there and claim something that I

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Speaker 3: have no right to claim. So I said, well, I'm

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Speaker 3: a white woman with black heritage. And when I gave

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Speaker 3: a talk in Saint Louis, there was a black woman

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Speaker 3: in the audience who actually asked me that. And when

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Speaker 3: I gave that answer, she said, well, there's no other

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Speaker 3: answer you can give. I'm the president of the Black

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Speaker 3: Caucus here in Saint Louis. That's the right answer. So

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Speaker 3: I thought, Okay. Then when I was on the Today Show,

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Speaker 3: you know, Megan Kelly was the host, she asked me

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Speaker 3: the same question. I gave the same answer. About two

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Speaker 3: weeks later on Amazon and this woman identifies herself as black,

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Speaker 3: just squres me in her comment. She hasn't read the

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Speaker 3: book though she took me on the show. She said,

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Speaker 3: I'm telling all black people not to read this book.

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Speaker 3: You are not to read this book. This woman has

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Speaker 3: not properly honored her black heritage.

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Speaker 2: Why did she say that?

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Speaker 3: I wish I knew. I wish I knew, So, you know,

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Speaker 3: I started thinking about it. That was really the start

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Speaker 3: of my journey to redefine my racial identity because I

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Speaker 3: and it also was like a revelation to me that

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Speaker 3: no matter how I was going to identify, I was

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Speaker 3: going to make somebody unhappy, and it had less to

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Speaker 3: do with me and more to do with their agenda.

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Speaker 3: So it took me a while. I kept identifying as

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Speaker 3: white with black heritage, and then finally, I know, some

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Speaker 3: years later, I don't know how many years later, I

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Speaker 3: kind of put the pieces together rethought it. I was

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Speaker 3: on this podcast called My American Melting Pot, and the

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Speaker 3: host was a black woman. She said to me, you

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Speaker 3: understand that every time you talk, you're sort of an

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Speaker 3: ambassador to white people explain to them blackness. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 3: that's not my intention. I'm a storyteller. But then they

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Speaker 3: got me thinking and I thought, okay, well, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 3: out there, I'm saying these things. I'm trying to just

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Speaker 3: tell my mother's story. So everyone's aware of how racial

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Speaker 3: designations in this country hold people back, how they hold

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Speaker 3: them back, and how you know, my family, my mother's family,

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Speaker 3: you know, in nineteen hundreds senses they're black, and then

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Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty senses my grandfather, Asima Frederick, is white.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy, h That's just crazy. So at that point

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Speaker 3: I decided, well, think about what makes up your racial identity.

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Speaker 3: So I have DNA, which seven and nine percent African heritage.

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Speaker 3: Then I have my ancestry, my ancestors, what they endured.

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Speaker 3: Because I traced the family, the Fredericks, all the way

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Speaker 3: back to seventeen hundreds colonial Louisiana.

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Speaker 2: You did a lot of research, Miss Gail.

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Speaker 3: Oh. I had help. I'm not going to take all

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Speaker 3: the credit.

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Speaker 2: But you, your husband, everybody.

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Speaker 3: Everybody helped me. And I found Marda an enslaved woman,

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Speaker 3: and I saw what she endured. Though she was emancipated

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Speaker 3: by her enslaver, but she bore him seventeen and that

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Speaker 3: seventeen seven thirteen children. Oh yeah, during the first four

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Speaker 3: she was enslaved and the rest she freed her and

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Speaker 3: the children. So anyway, I and then I, you know,

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Speaker 3: you just trace the history of the family through all

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Speaker 3: these racial designations and how they were held back, and

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Speaker 3: and then I thought, you know, I need to claim this.

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Speaker 3: I need to claim this in a bigger way than

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Speaker 3: what I was claiming it. So when the twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: census came out, you know, we all had opportunities to

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Speaker 3: declare what we thought we were. So I ended up

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Speaker 3: saying I was mixed race. And now when I give

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Speaker 3: a talk, that's what I say, and if people have

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Speaker 3: a problem with it, I invite them to talk to

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Speaker 3: me about it so that we can have a dialogue.

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Speaker 2: We need to start cursing people out. That's what you

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Speaker 2: need to do, because if I'm being honest with you, miss,

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Speaker 2: you are their first white presenting woman I ever had

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Speaker 2: on my show, right because my platform is built Yeah,

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Speaker 2: my platform is built for women of color. But when

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Speaker 2: I read your story, I did my research on you,

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Speaker 2: and I also, you know, I for some reason, I

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Speaker 2: just had a really soft spot for your mom, and

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Speaker 2: I feel like when I read your story, you were

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Speaker 2: very honest about the history of race in America, and

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Speaker 2: also you were very honest about how you the experience

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Speaker 2: you was navigating through, and the feelings you was going through.

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Speaker 2: So I think it was kind of annoying how people

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Speaker 2: would questioning you because I don't think you I don't

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Speaker 2: feel like you had any ill intent at all. I

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Speaker 2: think you were just discovering something that you never knew

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Speaker 2: even existed, and it was a big discovery.

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Speaker 3: It was huge to me, though, I have to tell

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Speaker 3: you again, you know, I'm under public scrutiny. So sometimes

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Speaker 3: they would get emails or indirect things posted. Well, you know,

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Speaker 3: why is it that white people when they find they

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Speaker 3: have black ancestries are so surprised? What's the big deal? Right?

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Speaker 3: But that's not why I did it. But it has

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Speaker 3: nothing to do with that. I wanted to show what

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Speaker 3: my mother suffered, what my family suffered, what racism in

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Speaker 3: America looks like from the beginning, but only, of course,

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Speaker 3: only in Louisiana because that's where my family lived. So

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Speaker 3: but that's a good example. And you know, I have

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Speaker 3: a Civil War hero, Leon Frederick, who was a person

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Speaker 3: of color and he was part of the first Colored

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Speaker 3: Troops Native Guards in Louisiana. He was with the Union.

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Speaker 3: I was so proud of him. I wanted that out there.

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Speaker 3: I wanted people to start doing kind of a mind

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Speaker 3: shift about things. But I would love to curse people

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Speaker 3: out However, what this then we're in an argument. Seriously,

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Speaker 3: I really would.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm I'm me questioning when I am, like

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Speaker 2: my mother's back, like, I'm ALTI racial? What do you

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Speaker 2: think I am?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, because of the way I look. I think

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Speaker 3: that's part of the problem, right people. Even recently, I

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Speaker 3: had someone I don't know how they got to me

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Speaker 3: on Facebook, I don't know. I think it was a woman,

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Speaker 3: and she said she was explaining to me that I

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Speaker 3: should not be ashamed of my white heritage. Shake my white.

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Speaker 3: It's like, because I was saying I was mixed, that

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Speaker 3: meant I was ashamed of being white. No, right, that's

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Speaker 3: not it, right, I don't know. I think I unfriended her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So how do you think the one drop rule

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Speaker 2: continues to shape conversations around race and identity today?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, supposedly we don't anymore in the South

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Speaker 3: to define race, right, you know when my mother was

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Speaker 3: growing up, Yes, the one drop role, if you had

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Speaker 3: one drop of African blood, you are considered black. So

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Speaker 3: that does not that is not a legal thing anymore.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know how much it affects us today.

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Speaker 3: I still think we're making decisions very much on appearance.

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Speaker 3: We are looking at people and still doing that and

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Speaker 3: then having a set of stereotypes in our brain based

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Speaker 3: on people's appearances.

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Speaker 2: So looking back, were there are moments in your childhood

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Speaker 2: where you now realize your mother was protecting her secret?

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Speaker 3: Yes? I yes, And that did not come to me

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Speaker 3: until I wrote White Like Her started putting the pieces together,

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Speaker 3: and I had this very vivid memory as I was

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Speaker 3: a young girl, my mother she came, I sat on

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Speaker 3: her bed in her bedroom, and she started telling me

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Speaker 3: tales of New Orleans, and the one that really stuck

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Speaker 3: out in my mind. She told the tale. It was

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Speaker 3: a true story, not a tale, of witnessing a black

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Speaker 3: woman coming down the banquette the sidewalk into Oran and

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Speaker 3: she was burdened with all these groceries. She was an

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Speaker 3: older woman, and a white man is approaching her and

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Speaker 3: she's struggling, and because she didn't get off the sidewalk

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Speaker 3: for him, he pushed her off the sidewalk and all

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Speaker 3: her grocery fell and all her And my mother said

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Speaker 3: to me, you never treat people that way. That's the

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Speaker 3: wrong way to treat people. She was giving me a

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Speaker 3: secret message that took me a long time to cope, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like she was break from here and there.

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Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely yeah. And of course she had all these

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Speaker 3: quirks that I just thought she was just I had

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Speaker 3: a quirky mom. You know, we all think, don't we

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Speaker 3: all think her mom's a little anyway, right, I'm sure my.

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Speaker 1: Daughter thinks, I know.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, I just thought, well, you know, mom, never go

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Speaker 3: out in the sun without a hat. She liked she would.

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Speaker 3: She would never, you know, she never Sunday, that's for sure.

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Speaker 3: And then she had this other weird habit. She would

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Speaker 3: wear make up a light foundation on her face before

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Speaker 3: she went at night. And I didn't think any of

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Speaker 3: it when I was really young, but when I got

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Speaker 3: to be a teenager, I thought, why is she wearing

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Speaker 3: making I don't wear. Yeah, so I questioned her, and

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Speaker 3: then she has this weird explanation about you never know

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Speaker 3: when you're going to get sick in the middle of

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Speaker 3: the night. Then the ambulance comes for you, and you

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Speaker 3: want to look your best because you'll get better treatment

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Speaker 3: at the hospital. So I thought, I don't know about that,

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Speaker 3: but that's what she said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was when you was talking about her doing

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Speaker 2: a makeup and even a heat even with she I

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Speaker 2: think she waited a certain amount of time to give

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Speaker 2: birth to your brother because she had fears of maybe

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Speaker 2: the child coming out darker.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. I mean when I asked her

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Speaker 3: why there was a five year gap, my mom was

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Speaker 3: very religious, so I have to kind of accept this.

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Speaker 3: She said, well, that's what God intended, you know, very religious.

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Speaker 3: But I also think she must have been thinking that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have been thinking that, you know.

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Speaker 3: Because that's her background. And when I spoke with her

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Speaker 3: first cousin, who was of her generation, the only one surviving,

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Speaker 3: her name was you would call her cousin, you got it,

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Speaker 3: And she explained that to me. She says, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we always waited to see the complexion of the baby,

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Speaker 3: so I'm sure that was in my mom's mind. My

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Speaker 3: mom had sort of an olive complexion. She always claims

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Speaker 3: that people thought she was Italian, that kind of thing,

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Speaker 3: so that was always on her mind.

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Speaker 2: Right. So, in today's climb, and how do you think

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Speaker 2: your mother's life would have been different if she openly

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Speaker 2: identify as black, Well.

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Speaker 3: I would hope it would be a lot better because

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Speaker 3: there are more opportunities you know, I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: say we're there yet, and we're not there yet racially

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Speaker 3: in this country, for sure, but we've made some strides forward,

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Speaker 3: and I think she might might if she had been

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Speaker 3: of my generation, she might have been able to embrace it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And do you believe she carry like guilt?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do. I think she did. There were only

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Speaker 3: certain family members that were allowed to visit us. I

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Speaker 3: didn't know this at the time, as I referred to

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Speaker 3: in the book and quote passable people who could pass

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Speaker 3: for white. So my father wouldn't know. And after the

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Speaker 3: book came out, Uncle Homer, who was my mother's full brother,

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Speaker 3: his daughter I never met him. His daughter, Phoebe, actually

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Speaker 3: called me to talk to me. And Uncle Homer married

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Speaker 3: a woman of colors, so the children were so. Phoebe said, oh,

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Speaker 3: when your mother and father and brother came to visit

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Speaker 3: us in New Orleans, if I was already married, I

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Speaker 3: could not be at the house. And I said, what

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Speaker 3: do you mean. She said, well, I couldn't be a

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Speaker 3: Grandma Camille's house because I was too dark. She told

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Speaker 3: me not to come. M I felt terrible, and she

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Speaker 3: seemed to like accept it, like, well, that's why it

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Speaker 3: was and we didn't want your father to know.

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Speaker 2: You think your dad knudough or had an idea.

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Speaker 3: I guess cousin you were that And she said he

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Speaker 3: didn't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'll never know, because I feel like when you was

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Speaker 2: describing the argument they had and he was like, before

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Speaker 2: I met you, you didn't have any shoes. In a way,

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Speaker 2: he was talking about black people, and I feel like

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Speaker 2: your mom was like she was trying to like, you know,

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Speaker 2: not it obvious, but like, you can't treat people like that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like he had maybe had

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Speaker 2: an idea, or maybe he just felt like something was off.

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Speaker 3: He might have thought something was off. But then you know,

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Speaker 3: they met during the war, so he was in Mississippi.

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Speaker 3: He went to New Orleans on R and R. That's

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Speaker 3: where they met, so he was probably familiar with how

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Speaker 3: people in New Orleans little creoles and all of that.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure my mother's I can't prove this, but I'm

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Speaker 3: sure somehow she got her hands on a white birth certificate.

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Speaker 3: She had to how I mean, how else could she

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Speaker 3: have gotten married in Ohio without a birth certificate?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: So somehow she maneuvered this and you know, my mom

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Speaker 3: was a very beautiful woman, and I'm sure my father thought,

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Speaker 3: holy cow, I'm so lucky. I'm not going to question

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Speaker 3: too much right now, right, No, she was really pretty, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: she was pretty gorgeous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you decide to share your story on national

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Speaker 2: TV to sharing your family story, how did the reactions

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Speaker 2: of your friends and your families respond to it? Because

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Speaker 2: your father was also he was a racist?

434
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I guess you could say that. And

435
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 3: I'm not making excuses.

436
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 2: Right, so I get it.

437
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's my dad, and he grew up you know,

438
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 3: at a certain time. He's born nineteen eighteen. He grew

439
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 3: up in a very ethnic neighborhood. You know, there's a

440
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 3: lot of immigrants, so there it was not it's not right,

441
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: but there was a lot of bigotry and racism. So

442
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: he was continuing that though I never ever ever heard

443
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 3: him say the end word, right, So I don't know

444
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: if and this is going to sound so patronizing, so

445
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 3: forgive me, but one of his best friends at work

446
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: was a black man. Argacy that right, that he loved him.

447
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 3: They were friends. So how do you get that in

448
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 3: your how do you you know what I mean? Figure

449
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 3: that out. So, yeah, I think he was a bigger.

450
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 3: He was a racist, sure, and I'm not going to

451
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 3: say he wasn't.

452
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did his family feel about you sharing a

453
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 2: story like was somebody like I shared?

454
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 3: His generation were already dead right now, I'm dealing with

455
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 3: my cousins. And I went back home after the book came,

456
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: I was invited to a talk the library, and some

457
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 3: of my cousins came. They were great, They said, we

458
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: had no idea, but this is awesome.

459
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: You know, generation is different than the old generation.

460
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 3: They're different. I had no backlash from any of my

461
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: family or my friends. I had one friend say to me,

462
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 3: you know, I'm kind of upset with you. You kept that

463
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 3: secret from me, and I'm your friend. You never told me.

464
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: So everyone was good about it. I had no problems

465
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: with anybody.

466
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Were you concerned about how the black community or

467
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: the white community would perceive your mother's decision to pass?

468
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

469
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

470
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: I did a talk at a bookstore in Hyde Park

471
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 3: in Illinois, Chotta. Yeah, And it was a mixed audience.

472
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 3: And there was a point where and I was in

473
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 3: conversation with a professor from U S where I did

474
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 3: my graduate work, and she's a black woman. And so

475
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: there's a point where suddenly, and I don't know why

476
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 3: this happened, the audience shifted and started criticizing my mother.

477
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 3: I don't see why she thought she had to leave.

478
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 3: That was the community. She should have staying in her

479
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: community and gotten support. I was sort of taken aback,

480
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: so I didn't say anything right away, and then the

481
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 3: professor came in and said, look, guys, you're blaming the

482
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 3: victim here, right, Let's not do that. So she kind

483
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: of shut it down. But yeah, I mean I don't

484
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: know that. Yeah, I've received that. I've seen that you.

485
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: Have to like do you travel with somebody or like

486
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: do you have a routine, because I can only imagine

487
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: what you have to do to get your mind ready

488
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: for these conversations, because you don't know how it can go.

489
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: I never know, right well, you know, I had many

490
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 3: years of teaching on a university level, so anytime you

491
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: walk into it from day to day, it's like I

492
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: never know. So yeah, yeah, I don't always travel with someone.

493
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 3: Sometimes they go alone, but usually you know, if it's

494
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: the library that's brought me in, they'll have someone pick

495
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: me up and take me there and back. So I

496
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: have a very strange experience. You're probably thinking of that

497
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: from the book early on. This is actually before the

498
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: book came out, but after I was on the road show,

499
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: I gave a talk at a genealogy society which is

500
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: about an hour from my houses. And the audience was

501
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 3: all white except for this one woman who was of

502
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: Asian descent. So in the middle of my talk and

503
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,239
Speaker 3: there was obviously something wrong with her because she I

504
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: was getting towards the end. I was about done, and

505
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: she gets up and she said, and it comes up

506
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: to the you know where I'm staying singing right, she

507
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: starts singing. She starts, and I could see the person

508
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: who's posting going home. Oh we got it, so yeah,

509
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: I hit the things on my feet. I didn't know

510
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: what song she was singing. I just kind of let

511
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: her sing and then I quick and then plowted and said,

512
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: well that's great. Now I like to Is it okay

513
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: if I finish? She did. She went and sat down.

514
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: But then as I'm leaving, it's a really dark parking

515
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: lot and I'm leaving a little bit before everyone else.

516
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: She follows me do the parking lot and I'm pulling

517
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 3: my little suitcase with all my books. It's like, I'm

518
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 3: a little hobbled and I'm trying to get to my

519
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 3: car and she just keeps talking blah blah blah, and

520
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: she's saying these kind of weird things, and I'm not

521
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 3: sure what to do. So again I had to think quickly,

522
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 3: and I said, you know, I came in this parking,

523
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: but I'm not sure how to get out of it.

524
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: Can you show me how? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So

525
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 3: they got her brain out of whatever she was thinking,

526
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 3: and she gave me directions and then I got in

527
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: my clock and I was so shook up. I actually

528
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: went the wrong way.

529
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like, girl, what are you doing?

530
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: Ye?

531
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: It's like, no, I knew that something was off there,

532
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: and you don't you want to be very nice and

533
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 3: kind and get her fight box.

534
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, something was clearly wrong with her though.

535
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it had nothing to do with me.

536
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

537
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, I'm curious, what do you think

538
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: about white women who get the braids they want to

539
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: be black, they tanny skin, they say they black, they

540
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: act like black people, Like, what are your thoughts on that?

541
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: Because I can't think of the lady's name, But remember

542
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: that one.

543
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: Who?

544
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, yeah, Rachel, my girl, Rachel.

545
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know. I have her in the second book.

546
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: What they never told us because I tell a story

547
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: in there of a woman for her last name is

548
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 3: virtil vera.

549
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: Bird a bird, Yes I know what it is, yes, yes.

550
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and older lady bird a bird, and that's her name. Anyway.

551
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: The only reason she came out with her story we

552
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: was because of Rachel Dulcany. She was furious with this

553
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: woman doing that.

554
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: Rachel was trying to though, Miss gil Yeah, I.

555
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 3: Mean, come on, come on, I just to me, it's wrong.

556
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: I'm all for people embracing things, but not the way,

557
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: not what she did that. That's that's co opting someone

558
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: else's heritage, their identity. It's co opting something you have

559
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 3: no right to. If you want to talk about race

560
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 3: in America and you know what's happened, you don't do

561
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,959
Speaker 3: it that way, right, you know, there are other ways

562
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 3: you can do it. You can do it the way

563
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 3: I'm doing it, right, You don't have to do that. Yeah, No,

564
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not not a fan. Okay, let's that way.

565
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: I'm not a fan of that. And you know when

566
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: people accuse me. Oh, the only reason you are telling

567
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: your stories you want reparations? Hell no, right, no, right, yeah,

568
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: good for that?

569
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: No, right, because girls.

570
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: Can you see me showing up for reparations. I don't

571
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 3: think that's gonna work anyway, right, not gonna happen, And

572
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: that would be wrong, even though I have ancestors who

573
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: would be entitled, you know, but no, that's not that's

574
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: not what I do. So yeah, no, I'm not in

575
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: favor of that.

576
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: What was the most surprising thing you discovered while researching

577
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: your family history beyond your mother's secret.

578
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: Oh that's a hard one. Yeah, that's I got to

579
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: think for a minute. Well, I wasn't surprise learning about Marta.

580
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: My goal when I sat down. I had several goals

581
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 3: when I sat down to write White like Her, because

582
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 3: in the beginning, some people were talking about, oh, you

583
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: should do a fiction book because you're a fiction writer,

584
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 3: and then others were saying, no, do nonfiction, and then

585
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: I decided nonfiction was better. So once I got back

586
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 3: to Marta, Marta by the Ways and other books, other

587
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 3: research books, which I was shocked because not only was

588
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: she enslaved, okay, so her mother was enslaved, I'm pretty

589
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 3: sure her mother was brought from Africa. It is either

590
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 3: her mother. It's hard because there's no there are no records,

591
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: so we have to kind of make leaps and do

592
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: it logically. She was part of this estate in Louisiana, huge.

593
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: These people were very wealthy, and she of course was

594
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 3: inherited as part of the property. I hate to see

595
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 3: these things, but it's true, this is what happened. I'm

596
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 3: not going to sugarcoat this. So as I said, she

597
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 3: had and I would talk about this in the book

598
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 3: because you cannot look at this as she had free will.

599
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: She had no free will, and that sometimes in my research,

600
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 3: as usually I hate to say this a male who's suggesting, well,

601
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 3: these women had free will. No, No, she's yeah. And

602
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 3: when I read her papers the reasons given for her freedom,

603
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 3: I got furious. Yeah, I was so angry. There's no

604
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 3: free will. So after she had the fourth child, as

605
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 3: I said, he freed her, and the fourth children went

606
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 3: on to have a total of thirteen. This is what

607
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: surprised me when in his will when he died, he

608
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 3: divided his estate, which is very usual, and you're talking

609
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: about seventeen hundreds. Half went tomato and half the children.

610
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: So they were free people of color who now are

611
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: in the middle class because they have an estate, they

612
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 3: have some wealth, which is very unusual, right, very unusual.

613
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 3: So I mean, you can look at it however you

614
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: want to look at it. But that did surprise me. Yeah.

615
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: You know one thing that surprised me about your story

616
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: when you was on your research, how you discovered that

617
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: a lot of birth records had errors and yes, yeah,

618
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 2: and it made me think about my birth certificate because

619
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: I was trying to get my Social Security card like

620
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 2: many years ago, and I was telling the lady that

621
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: my birthday was February the eighth, and she was like, no,

622
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: that's not your birthday. And I'm like, girl, how are

623
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: you gonna tell me? And come to find out, somebody

624
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 2: put February third for my birthday. Yeah, you're kidding.

625
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 3: So when nobody caught it, nobody caught that it was wrong.

626
00:36:59,040 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

627
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: Right, So when I was reading your story, I was like,

628
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: my goodness, Like, I can only imagine how many families

629
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 2: are dealing with those errors that happened many years ago

630
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: or centuries ago.

631
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, centuries ago. You know that. Really, I know, we're

632
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 3: talking about white like her. But that really comes into

633
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 3: play in that my latest book, What They Never Told Us,

634
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 3: Because these are all true stories of people who find

635
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: out that either one or both of their parents aren't

636
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 3: their parents, which means there's something wrong with their birth certificate.

637
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: Right.

638
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: And in one case, this one man, Brad Yule, who

639
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: he's just retired, he's a Texas cop. He takes a

640
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 3: DNA test him and his wife for fun.

641
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 2: Let's have fun, right, I wish I had some fun

642
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 2: like that. Take a dn DNA.

643
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 3: Has some fun, right, So, and then they post results

644
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 3: on Amazon and not Amazon on ancestry. So anyway, two

645
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 3: years later, he gets this strange message from a woman

646
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: claiming to be his maternal aunt. He doesn't know who

647
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 3: she is. Theyn't know who she is. So the first

648
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 3: thing he does, because he's a copy, wants to help

649
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: her so she can find the real nephew. He pulls

650
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: out his firsth certificate and his wife's because they were

651
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: born in Dallas the same year in nineteen seventy, compares them.

652
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: They couldn't have been more different. Where hers has a

653
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 3: hospital where she was born, has a cash where her

654
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: father signed their certificate. His father's name is typed in

655
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: long story short, he finds out he was adopted at

656
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: forty eight. He finds Ai didn't know, and it gets

657
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: even better. Not only is he adopted, but he goes

658
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 3: in search of who his biological parents are. Moms decease.

659
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: His dad is still alive, but he's serving a life

660
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: sentence in Angola prison for murder.

661
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: What.

662
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: Yes, this is the most beenantastic story you'll ever here.

663
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 3: Everyone wants to read it by what they never told us. Yes,

664
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 3: what he does afterwards truly inspirational and amazing.

665
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: Wow, could you imagine your daddy in jail?

666
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: No, no, nope, nope. People who read the book who

667
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 3: don't have these surprises started they told me the star

668
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: never searched this because and counting back was like, wait a.

669
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: Minute, do I ever see You're gonna wait? Nobody had

670
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 2: any intentions of telling him.

671
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 3: No, he actually called. The first thing he did when

672
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 3: he figured it out was he called his adopted dad

673
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 3: and he said he on. They were on the phone

674
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: and he liked hemmed and hawed, and then finally he

675
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: admitted it, and his dad said to him, well, we've

676
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: been trying to find a way to tell you that. Yeah,

677
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: you've been.

678
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 2: Trying for forty eight years, right.

679
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 3: To tell me, He goes, that was the next lie, right.

680
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: Right, Come on, one thing I like about you. I

681
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 2: feel like you are just so fun and you're very honest.

682
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 2: So what conversations about privileged race and systemic inequality they're

683
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 2: writing this book force you to tell yourself?

684
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: Okay? You know I'm an educator, right, so I'm very

685
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 3: aware of and I'm a historian. I'm very interested in history.

686
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: So I've been aware of systemic racism through history, through time.

687
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: So what changed for me? And I hope I'm answering

688
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 3: your question. It's not that I didn't know. I did know,

689
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: But when you find out, oh, it's not something in

690
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 3: a history book, like slavery is not something in a

691
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: history book. Slavery is something my ancestors had to deal

692
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 3: with that was interested on them. It changes everything because

693
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 3: it's well, that's that's my tribe. Yeah, you're messing with

694
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 3: my people. It really so it becomes visceral, like physical

695
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: for me. That's when I said to you, when I

696
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 3: saw what the enslaver wrote why he freed Marta, is like,

697
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: you got a heck of a lot of nerves saying

698
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 3: in regards to her affection toward you. What choice did she? Yeah,

699
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 3: give me a break? Yeah, I get really worked up

700
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 3: about that. It really bothers me. Yeah.

701
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like when people read your book, and

702
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: I also feel like for yourself, like you found a

703
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: new understanding of sacrifices and struggles that our generation has

704
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: had to endure.

705
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 3: Yes. Absolutely, you know, like I was saying, my mom

706
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 3: had these quirky habits, and after I did my research,

707
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: and you know, she would not talk about passing. So

708
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: I do a lot of research to understand what that

709
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 3: was in terms of what you gave up, what were

710
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 3: the pluses and and what that did to a person.

711
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 3: And I really had a deeper understanding for her. But

712
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 3: I also have a real sadness for our relationship because

713
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 3: I felt like, you know, she saw I was keeping

714
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 3: the secrets. Yeah, and I tried to talk to her

715
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 3: about it. If she would only have talked to me, Yeah,

716
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 3: how deeper our relationship would have been. I wasn't going

717
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 3: to tell anybody. She had to trust me. But I

718
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 3: think it was so ingrained in her that she was

719
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 3: in such a state of denial that she just couldn't

720
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: talk about it. Yeah, you know, it just wasn't. And

721
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 3: the same goes for my dad. You know, we talked

722
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 3: about his racism, and you know, he served in World

723
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 3: War Two and he was in for the duration in

724
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 3: the South Pacific. Until I got his records from the

725
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: hospital when he had the medical issues, I had no

726
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: understanding what this man went through.

727
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you spoke about mental health.

728
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and he was never the same and he

729
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 3: actually told the psychiatrists, I am not the same man

730
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 3: anymore and I'll never be. So I had more empathy

731
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 3: for him because it's hard growing up in an alcoholic households.

732
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: It's really for children of ahol alcoholics. It's a tough road. Yeah,

733
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: And so I had more understanding from what he went through.

734
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: You know, while he was talking, I can just only

735
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 2: imagine that desire to have that relationship with your mother

736
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: the way that it possibly could have been, because if

737
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: she would have just been honest with you, I can

738
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: only imagine other things that you will probably unlocked.

739
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 3: You know, And you know how I give myself consolation.

740
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: Had she shared it all right, I probably wouldn't have

741
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: been on the road show, and I probably not have

742
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 3: ridden because I would have had my answer my question

743
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 3: answered ready.

744
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

745
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 3: Part of the journey of the book is answering those

746
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 3: questions and tracing the family and figuring out how this

747
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: all began.

748
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. If your mother could see the impact of y'all

749
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: story today, what do you think she will say.

750
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 3: I want to believe that she would be proud of me.

751
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 3: Though she never ever said she was proud of me.

752
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 3: I would like to think she would have been proud

753
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: and she would have seen how much good has come

754
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: out of it.

755
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, which one of the reasons why you wrote

756
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 2: your second book, because so many people were emailing you,

757
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 2: reaching out to you, telling you their family secrets.

758
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 3: Well, I was shocked because these were intimate things. Hey guys,

759
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 3: I'm a stranger, but I don't know. It must have

760
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 3: touched people in a way that they felt they could

761
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 3: trust me, and they were right, you can trust me. Yeah.

762
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 3: So that's why the people in the book there are

763
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 3: fourteen stories, but they trusted me.

764
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

765
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 3: And when I you know, I did all my interviews

766
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 3: on zoom, so they would say to me at the beginning,

767
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 3: I feel like I kind of know you already that

768
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: I can tell you, And so it cut through a

769
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 3: lot of you know, them being cleary of me, and

770
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 3: because I already told my story, so they felt they

771
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: could tell theirs.

772
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: Yes, people feel seen.

773
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 3: Yeah they did, and everything in there is what they

774
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: told me.

775
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: So what advice would you give to someone today who

776
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: feels torn between two racial identities.

777
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 3: I think that's very tough. Yeah, and I keep bringing

778
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 3: the book up. What they never told was one of

779
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: the stories of Bruce Paul Scott finds out he always

780
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: suspected something was up, but he finds out later in

781
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 3: life that his biological father was black. He's much older.

782
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 3: It affected him deeply in many ways, having people constantly

783
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: use racial slurs around him because of his appearance. That

784
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: we grew up in this very white Irish Catholic family

785
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: who kept telling you it's the recessive gene, which was

786
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: a lie. Right, So he said, to this day, I

787
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 3: accept I'm biracial. That's fine. I'm good with that, but

788
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 3: I'm still uncomfortable because I don't know what that actually means. Yeah,

789
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 3: because he doesn't have the cultural background of you know,

790
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 3: of his black heritage. She just has white.

791
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all he knows.

792
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: That's how does he mesh those things together? So I

793
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 3: think that's hard and I wish I had an answer. Yeah,

794
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: I can only look at examples of people I've talked to.

795
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 3: Does that help?

796
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it does.

797
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: I think it's very difficult when you look a certain

798
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: way but you identify another way, and you've been identifying

799
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 2: this way for many, many years, Like I couldn't even

800
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: imagine being black my entire life, and then come to

801
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: find out I'm white, Like, that's that's a lot.

802
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: I think there was someone at the end of white

803
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 3: like her who wrote me. I think her name was Paris.

804
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 3: I know if you remember her about No she's the

805
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 3: one who can pass. But she said, the white community

806
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 3: does not accept her black. So she's kind of like

807
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 3: in this limbo place with her race. Yes she doesn't.

808
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was thinking about when I was

809
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: reading your book, when you first met your cousins and yeah,

810
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: had the family reunion, Like how was that for you?

811
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: Just seeing all these different types of people.

812
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 3: Awesome? It was, oh my god, it was They welcomed

813
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 3: me with open arms. You know, it was a reunion

814
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: to bring me back into the family, which, yeah, family

815
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: I didn't even know existed some of them, and that

816
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 3: they had a dinner in New Orleans and I sat

817
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 3: with uncle Fred, aunt Alma and Brenda, my husband and me,

818
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 3: and you know, my mom had only been dead a year,

819
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: so look, I kept staring at them. Yeah, and I

820
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 3: finally apologized because I was I'm missing my mom and

821
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 3: they looked so much much like her. It was like

822
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 3: she was there with us, you know. Yeah. It was

823
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 3: very emotional for me.

824
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you know what you look like. You can

825
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: cook me is but I can only imagine the food

826
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: you've been getting from your cousins and theli I had

827
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: the family reunion.

828
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know, and my mom would cook New

829
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: Orleans stuff.

830
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: Oh so I know she could cook.

831
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, we had you know, red beans and

832
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: rice with shrimp on Fridays. I think I sa in

833
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 3: the book I make a joke I'm the only girl

834
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 3: from the Cleveland area who grew up on grits, right,

835
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 3: it's like which I have. My Polish husband cooks too. Now,

836
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 3: we have that all the time.

837
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 2: I love me some grits.

838
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 3: You come over, We'll have some grits.

839
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'm definitely gonna pull up on you for sure.

840
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: All right.

841
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: And last, when not least, looking back, how has uncovering

842
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: your mother's secret changed the way you see yourself.

843
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I don't see myself any or it is

844
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 3: just this white woman. I see myself as a mixed

845
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 3: race woman who has this rich, wonderful heritage that you know,

846
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,439
Speaker 3: I'm proud of and I want people to know about it. Yeah,

847
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 3: that's why I'm talking about it. I you know, I'm

848
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 3: not hiding under you know, some shelf and some closet.

849
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: This is out there, It's been out there.

850
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, I'm super excited we had this conversation.

851
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: This was definitely a treat for sure for me too.

852
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm very honored that I'm the only white person,

853
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 3: but I really am not totally.

854
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 2: Technically you're not white by the one drop rule, you're

855
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: technically black.

856
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah technically I am.

857
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you get a pass on this one like that.

858
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: But I also feel like it was just very important

859
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 2: to also just share your mother's story because I can

860
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: just only imagine so many other women who have experienced

861
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: this and just just like yourself, discovering their heritage. It's

862
00:49:58,960 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: a lot to take in.

863
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: It is a lot. It's a lot to take in.

864
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 3: I think when you make a discovery as an adult,

865
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 3: because your identity is so fixed, you know, it's totally fixed.

866
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 3: And then to find out, well, that's not that's not

867
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 3: your total identity. There's something else you don't know. So

868
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 3: how do you integrate that exactly? Yeah? Put yourself back together? Yeah?

869
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 2: So God bless your mother, man, because what a story. Story.

870
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 2: And to the listeners, if you have any questions or anything,

871
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: or you want to just follow up with my amazing guests,

872
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: please make sure to email me a hello at thephgpodcast

873
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: dot com and I'll just carry you. What's next for you?

874
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 3: Well, I'm doing a lot of promo for What They

875
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 3: Never Told Us and I'm not sure what I'm going

876
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 3: to write next. I've been there's several projects in mind.

877
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 3: Can I ask you? Do we have time for me

878
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 3: to read a little excerpt? Yeah, go ahead, Okay, I'm

879
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 3: excited to read this from What They Never Told Us

880
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: and it's true stories of family secrets and hidden identities,

881
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 3: and it really does in some ways play into my

882
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 3: mother's story of finding out you're something for someone you know,

883
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 3: different than you thought you were. And I do I'll

884
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 3: do a real quick setup. This is from the last chapter,

885
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 3: which is titled Strangers Keep Telling Me Their Secrets, which

886
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 3: they keep by the way. And this is an instant

887
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 3: that happened at a conference I was at called Untangling

888
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 3: Our Roots. And it's the first day of the conference,

889
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 3: and this conference is for adoptees don't or conceive people

890
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 3: and non parental event people, so people who have different

891
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 3: parents than they thought they had. So I'm sitting at

892
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 3: my author table and I'm been signing books and I'm

893
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 3: about ready to leave, right So suddenly I'm packing up.

894
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 3: A woman is standing in front of my table, maybe

895
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 3: in her mid thirties, though I'm a terrible judge of age,

896
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 3: brown hair, casually dressed. There's an edge to her lanyard

897
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 3: is twisted, so I can't see her name or what

898
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 3: state she's from. You're the reason I came, she says emphatically.

899
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 3: I wasn't going to come, but I saw your name.

900
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 3: I drove here from Central Illinois. From the intensity of

901
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 3: her gaze, the way she leans in her hand listing

902
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 3: on one of my books, I sense she desperately wants

903
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 3: to tell me something. I'm both pleased but wary. My

904
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 3: mother's story sometimes lisits unexpected emotional reactions from people. The

905
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 3: woman's gaze drifts away toward the DNA Angels booth as

906
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 3: she gathers her thoughts. I wait. Then she looks at

907
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 3: me and begins to tell me her story. Two weeks ago,

908
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 3: I got my DNA results. Shocker, my dad's not my dad.

909
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 3: I asked my mom about it. At first, she wouldn't

910
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 3: tell me. Then she did, and while she was separated

911
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 3: from my dad, she had an affair with this guy

912
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 3: she knew. She thought she couldn't get pregnant. I guess

913
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 3: she was wrong, right, I'm just glad my dad's no

914
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 3: longer here. Do you know who your birth father is?

915
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 3: I asked, After almost two years of interviewing people who've

916
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 3: had these parental discoveries, the question comes easily. She scoffs.

917
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 3: It's a small town. I know who he is. As

918
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 3: soon as they found out. I marched over to his house,

919
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 3: knocked on his door and told him I was his daughter.

920
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: He told me to leave and not come back. End

921
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: of story. Wow, mouth is tied with anger and hurt.

922
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I say, Of all the people's stories of

923
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 3: parental discoveries I've listened to, none of them were so

924
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 3: recent and so wrong. Look, I'm a businesswoman. I run

925
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 3: my own travel agency people work for me. I can

926
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 3: handle this, she pauses. I'm not sure if I'm going

927
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 3: to stay. I just want to meet you. You might

928
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 3: want to stick around and check out some of the panels,

929
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 3: I offer, believing that the panels might help her. I

930
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 3: don't know. Thanks anyway. It's the second day of the summit.

931
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 3: Late in the afternoon. There's a line of people waiting

932
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 3: to buy my book, probably because they attended my author panel.

933
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 3: The line starts to dwindle. I look up after signing

934
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 3: a copy of my book and see the woman from yesterday.

935
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 3: She waits until everyone leaves. I thought I could handle this,

936
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 3: but I can't. She starts to cry. I hold her

937
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 3: hand while she cries. There's nothing else I can do

938
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 3: except to say it's good you stayed.

939
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:44,439
Speaker 2: Man.

940
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 3: From my own discovery experience and from listening to others

941
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 3: with similar experiences, I know the difficult journey that lies

942
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 3: ahead for her as she begins putting the pieces of

943
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 3: her identity back together. As I hand her my car,

944
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 3: I tell her to email me via my website if

945
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 3: she wants to talk. I never hear from her again.

946
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 3: When I think about the stories in this book and

947
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 3: the bravery of the people sharing them. I think about

948
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 3: with the novelist Cigarette Newness said at the end of

949
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 3: her novel The Friend, what we miss, what we lost,

950
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 3: and what we mourn. Isn't this what makes us who,

951
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 3: deep down we truly are. From these splintered pieces of

952
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 3: who we once thought we were, we heal and forge

953
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 3: our new selves.

954
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 2: Come, mom, it's better push that pin. That's what I'm

955
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 2: talking about. You know what, one more question, and the

956
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: reason why I'm asking you this question is because you know,

957
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 2: I talk to a lot of different people from different

958
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 2: walks of life, and you know, I feel like people

959
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: resonate with my platform because you know, a lot of

960
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: the stories that I do cover we don't really talk

961
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: about within the black community, especially when it comes to

962
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 2: sexual abuse. But for me, I don't always want to

963
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: highlight the negativity of what goes on within black womanhood, right.

964
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 2: But also I understand the importance of having these stories

965
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 2: on the show. So for you, you know, all these

966
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 2: people from the woolworks of sharing a family secrets and

967
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 2: telling you all these things like is it ever too

968
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 2: much for you?

969
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, Honestly, this last book about did it for

970
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 3: me emotionally. The way I work is. Once the Zoom

971
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 3: interviews over, I go over the interview and I take

972
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 3: word for word what they said. So I'm re experiencing

973
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 3: some of the emotional things that have happened to these people.

974
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 3: And with Brad Yule's story, for some reason, he started

975
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: talking about lost opportunities. And when I was listening to

976
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 3: his story, my brother was near death. So I'm trying

977
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 3: to navigate his story and then dealing with my own

978
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 3: emotional crisis of losing my only sibling very tragically. He

979
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 3: died of a brain bleed which caused strogg and he

980
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: lingered for a while, and it was a terrible thing.

981
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 3: There's a whole cheap from my brother and lost opportunities,

982
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 3: and how important it is not to let these opportunities go. So, yeah,

983
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 3: I had after listening to Brad, I took a month off.

984
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 3: I emotionally couldn't go back right away. It was too much.

985
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 3: My brother died in December, and yeah, it was hard

986
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 3: to go back.

987
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I need an autograph coffee, however much of costs

988
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 2: I need. You have a fan in.

989
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 3: Me, Oh you're so great. Yeah, give me your info

990
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: and definitely you'll get one.

991
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, because what a story man? I'm so happy that

992
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 2: we cross paths. I'm really am yeah too. This has

993
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 2: been one of my favorite episodes from the season, so

994
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you coming on.

995
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 3: Oh my pleasure.

996
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. And to listeners, like I said,

997
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: reach out to me if you want to know more

998
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 2: about our guests. And until next time, everyone, later you're

999
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 2: gonna say bye bye. The Professional Homegirl podcast is a

1000
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 2: production of the Black Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts

1001
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1002
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe

1003
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 2: and rate the show, and you can connect with me

1004
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 2: on social media at the PHG podcast