WEBVTT - From the Vault: Asgardians: Odin, with George O'Connor

0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:09.440
<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:13.280
<v Speaker 1>name is Joe McCormick. Today's Saturday, which means we are

0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.440
<v Speaker 1>heading into the vault for an older episode of the show.

0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.280
<v Speaker 1>This is an interview that Rob did with the author

0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.000
<v Speaker 1>and illustrator George O'Connor, and the episode was called as

0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Guardians Odin. It originally published March twenty sixth, twenty twenty four.

0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Enjoy Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production

0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.040
<v Speaker 2>of iHeartRadio.

0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.279
<v Speaker 3>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.720
<v Speaker 3>is Robert Lamb. In today's episode, I chat with author

0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.880
<v Speaker 3>and illustrator George O'Connor, creator of the twelve volume Olympians

0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.520
<v Speaker 3>comic series. His new book Odin is his first venture

0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.560
<v Speaker 3>in a new as Guardians graphic novel series, and it

0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.760
<v Speaker 3>is out today in all fourmats. I'd spoken with George

0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.039
<v Speaker 3>a couple of years back and decided at that point

0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.080
<v Speaker 3>that he would make for a great guest here on

0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.400
<v Speaker 3>Stuff to Blow Your Mind. You know, given our general

0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.800
<v Speaker 3>interest on the show here in Global Myths, so it

0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.080
<v Speaker 3>was a real treat to get to chat with him here.

0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.080
<v Speaker 3>Plus he is one of my son's favorite authors, so

0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.640
<v Speaker 3>hopefully I'm still scoring a few cool Dad points here

0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.360
<v Speaker 3>and there. So without further ado, let's jump right into

0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:30.319
<v Speaker 3>the interview. Hi George, welcome to the show.

0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me.

0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.520
<v Speaker 3>So, the new graphic novel is Odin, the first in

0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:40.160
<v Speaker 3>your brand new as Guardian series, and this comes on

0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.720
<v Speaker 3>the heels of your what twelve volume Olympian series about

0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.600
<v Speaker 3>the gods of Greek mythology. Yeah, so, how did the

0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Olympians come together? And then how did that lead into

0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:51.680
<v Speaker 3>this new venture?

0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:55.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I mean, it's kind of a long story and

0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.440
<v Speaker 2>there's almost like multiple different versions I could tell, but

0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, as a fan of your podcast, I know

0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.400
<v Speaker 2>some of the spots I should really hit. So Olympians

0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.400
<v Speaker 2>was a lifelong love. Right when I was in third grade,

0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I was involved in a special school program where we

0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.639
<v Speaker 2>kind of did project based learning where the teacher who's

0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.080
<v Speaker 2>headed it up, Hi missus Stimili, if you're listening, she

0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.040
<v Speaker 2>would do these big project based things. We would study,

0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.840
<v Speaker 2>like say, we studied like Rube Goldberg for instance, as

0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:25.960
<v Speaker 2>a way of studying the history of comics and at

0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the same time studying like simple machines and stuff. And

0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.480
<v Speaker 2>we did a whole section on Greek mythology, and it

0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.600
<v Speaker 2>was the thing that really clicked with me. I was

0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.440
<v Speaker 2>the kid who drew. A lot of kids drew back then,

0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:39.000
<v Speaker 2>but that was definitely my identity. I was the kid

0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.040
<v Speaker 2>who drew. I like to draw like monsters and muscle

0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:43.680
<v Speaker 2>men and stuff. This is the age of like he

0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Man and things. I think the original Clash of the Titans,

0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.799
<v Speaker 2>the Ray Harryhausen was just out in theaters or had

0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:52.919
<v Speaker 2>been out, so there was a lot of young Greek

0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.760
<v Speaker 2>in the air. And it was a big thing for me,

0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.760
<v Speaker 2>partially because the stories were so not the sort of

0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.800
<v Speaker 2>thing you would be exposed to as a kid normally.

0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.280
<v Speaker 2>They were full of like, you know, violence and sexy

0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.799
<v Speaker 2>stuff and things that, like as a third grade you

0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.280
<v Speaker 2>were normally not allowed to look at. But because it

0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.079
<v Speaker 2>was like this Greek mythology thing, it was condoned. And

0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I was also the kid who hated being talked down to.

0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.520
<v Speaker 2>If the second I could tell an adult was like

0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.560
<v Speaker 2>talking down to me, I'm like, this person's an idiot,

0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.560
<v Speaker 2>and I don't know why I'm talking to them. So

0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.840
<v Speaker 2>this all just came together in this perfect mix for me,

0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.959
<v Speaker 2>and it just became a lifelong love and I read

0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of books, like all the books I could

0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.200
<v Speaker 2>find about Greek mythology, and then I branched out to

0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.720
<v Speaker 2>other mythologies after I kind of exhausted everything in my library,

0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.840
<v Speaker 2>and one of the things I got into was Norse mythology,

0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.240
<v Speaker 2>and by that point I think I was induced to

0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Greeks about like third grade. By Norse mythology gotne into

0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:54.280
<v Speaker 2>about sixth grade. And at that time I also discovered

0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.640
<v Speaker 2>superhero comics. My mom bought me an issue of The

0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Mighty Thour one day when I home sick from school.

0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Both my parents read comics, but not They weren't like

0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Wednesday Warriors. They didn't run to the shops, but we

0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.800
<v Speaker 2>just had a lot of comics in the house, and

0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.440
<v Speaker 2>my mom bought me this Thor. It was during the

0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.320
<v Speaker 2>creator Walt Simonson's run, and if you know your Marvel comics,

0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.760
<v Speaker 2>you know Walt Simonson he took you know, the Marvel

0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.359
<v Speaker 2>comics of Thor is mythologically not particularly accurate.

0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:21.960
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.120
<v Speaker 2>It was created by Stanley and Jack kirbying Journey to

0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Mystery in the sixties, but during the eighties Walt Simonson

0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.200
<v Speaker 2>took over this book as writer and illustrator the cartoonist

0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.680
<v Speaker 2>for it, and he really brought the mythology back in

0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.320
<v Speaker 2>a very accurate way. So basically, as I was reading

0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.560
<v Speaker 2>these mythological stories for the first times, I'm also being

0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.479
<v Speaker 2>exposed to these comics that are retelling the mythology in

0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.279
<v Speaker 2>a way that makes sense to me. And so it

0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:52.120
<v Speaker 2>plays this big role. The whole idea behind Olympians and

0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:58.520
<v Speaker 2>now as Guardians is it's classic superhero retellings of mythology

0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.520
<v Speaker 2>that sounds maybe more asked the one. I hope they

0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.520
<v Speaker 2>come out as like, it's not just all bam pao stuff.

0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.000
<v Speaker 2>It's just using the kind of storytelling techniques to like

0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.120
<v Speaker 2>make the way the stories came alive in my brain

0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.000
<v Speaker 2>as a kid seeing all these big long names and

0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.680
<v Speaker 2>big long words and stuff like, they came to life

0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.480
<v Speaker 2>in a very exciting way for me. Both mythologies Greek

0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.400
<v Speaker 2>and Norse and being introduced to thor and then through

0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:26.800
<v Speaker 2>that just becoming a comic book fiend, particularly old Marvel

0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:32.840
<v Speaker 2>comics and such, the two were very inextricably linked. Of

0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.480
<v Speaker 2>the two mythologies, Greek mythology was always my favor. It

0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.920
<v Speaker 2>was my first love. And so I've you know that

0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:41.720
<v Speaker 2>was it made sense for that to be the first

0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.960
<v Speaker 2>series I brought to life with Olympians, which was like

0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.680
<v Speaker 2>a twelve volume series. Each one was centered on a

0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:53.400
<v Speaker 2>different Olympian god. Not exhaustive. There's too much Greek mythology

0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:57.720
<v Speaker 2>to tell every myth, but just enough to give a

0:05:57.760 --> 0:05:59.840
<v Speaker 2>portrait of the goddess or god the book was about.

0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.200
<v Speaker 2>And I wrapped it up with twelve books because that

0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.520
<v Speaker 2>seemed like a good number. And then I was like,

0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to do the Norse because you know, after

0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.839
<v Speaker 2>twelve years of doing Olympians one book a year, essentially,

0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, Greek gods are very beautiful and you know,

0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:17.920
<v Speaker 2>perfect that way. I wanted to dress something like a

0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.920
<v Speaker 2>little bit grittier and like the Norse mythology. It's like

0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.040
<v Speaker 2>that those gods are not renowned for their beauty, with

0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.040
<v Speaker 2>a few exceptions, like you know, the stories like those

0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.960
<v Speaker 2>gods as a spoiler, they get old, they die, they

0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.320
<v Speaker 2>get maimed. They're not the perfect, all powerful beings. So

0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.040
<v Speaker 2>it's a real exciting, fun change of pace after over

0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.080
<v Speaker 2>a decade of working on one style mythology, to dip

0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:40.839
<v Speaker 2>my fingers in to tell this other style.

0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.039
<v Speaker 3>Now the yeah, the Olympian series. I was introduced to

0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.800
<v Speaker 3>these because my son, who's about to turn twelve, he

0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.880
<v Speaker 3>got really into them during the pandemic. I think maybe

0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.640
<v Speaker 3>he got them. We got them initially through the library system,

0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.160
<v Speaker 3>but then eventually we just had to buy them all

0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.920
<v Speaker 3>because he needed to read them over and over again. Yeah,

0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.160
<v Speaker 3>he was a he wasn't is a huge fan because

0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:08.760
<v Speaker 3>I think they fed his curiosity about Greek mythology. Well also, ultimately,

0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.600
<v Speaker 3>I think pushing pushing him more into other global myths

0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.640
<v Speaker 3>and getting him into other things like like the novels

0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.160
<v Speaker 3>of Rick Ryerdan and the various authors under that Rick

0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.360
<v Speaker 3>uired and presents Banner. Yeah, and yeah, I wish I'd

0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.400
<v Speaker 3>had some of these resources growing up, because I feel

0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.160
<v Speaker 3>like I had the what is it, the d. D

0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.040
<v Speaker 3>Alari's Book of Greek Myths?

0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh Delaria's Book of Greek Myths.

0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, yeah, I had that one. I had some

0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.840
<v Speaker 3>like really stuffy old books of my aunts, and then

0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.000
<v Speaker 3>just Clash the Titans, and those are like the main

0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.720
<v Speaker 3>initial resources I had for Greek mythology.

0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.640
<v Speaker 2>I think we probably pulled on exactly the same resources.

0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.800
<v Speaker 2>So I have a huge soft spot for Delaarre's book

0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:48.960
<v Speaker 2>of Greek Myths. And if you're listening at home, you

0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know this book, you probably do. It was an

0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.800
<v Speaker 2>oversized yellow and orange cover of like a Sun God.

0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.040
<v Speaker 2>Every library had it, every classroom should have it. And

0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.280
<v Speaker 2>it is this husband wife team, the Dolaires, who retold

0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Greek mythology and the illustrations, like, I'm obsessed with this book,

0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:10.960
<v Speaker 2>like you can even look online. There's a comic I

0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.360
<v Speaker 2>did for The New York Times about Dolaires because I

0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.640
<v Speaker 2>love this book so much, and like the illustrations are

0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.000
<v Speaker 2>some of them are so cool and some of them

0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:24.120
<v Speaker 2>are so weird. And as a kid it was something

0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I grappled with. I'm like, I don't know what to

0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.440
<v Speaker 2>make of this imagery, and so I would redraw the

0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.560
<v Speaker 2>myths in my own style. And that's such a cornerstone

0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.559
<v Speaker 2>of what Olympians grew out of what the Delairs did

0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.920
<v Speaker 2>that was amazing, I think, is taking all the disparate

0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.760
<v Speaker 2>threads of Greek mythology, all these different versions of stories

0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.600
<v Speaker 2>written over the entire Mediterranean world over hundreds of years,

0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.640
<v Speaker 2>no real connection, there's no Bible, but they took it

0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.040
<v Speaker 2>and worked it into a really nice cohesive narrative, and

0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.800
<v Speaker 2>that's something that I've tried to do with both as

0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Guardians and Olympians, to take all these disparate stories and

0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.120
<v Speaker 2>like it's it's that superhero mentality, like if this is

0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:09.920
<v Speaker 2>all in continuity, how do we make this work. One

0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.679
<v Speaker 2>of my pet peeves though, growing up it was those

0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.719
<v Speaker 2>stuffy old mythology books. Like I appreciate it as a sophisticate,

0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.319
<v Speaker 2>a relatively sophisticated adult when you read a Greek mythology

0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.000
<v Speaker 2>book that's illustrated with like faux like you know, vase

0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.040
<v Speaker 2>painting drawings and stuff. But as a kid, that doesn't

0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.520
<v Speaker 2>grab you, and it's already Sometimes for some people it's

0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a real uphill battle when you see like Hefestos or

0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Persephone or all these long names. Some people it just

0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.400
<v Speaker 2>it's an impenetrable wall of texts. They just get blocked.

0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.719
<v Speaker 2>They never get into it. And that that's such a

0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.560
<v Speaker 2>key part of like what the myths were to me,

0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.280
<v Speaker 2>was like bringing them to life the way I saw

0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.120
<v Speaker 2>them in my head, doing that in my books that way,

0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:50.480
<v Speaker 2>and of course Clash of the Titans, seeing that it

0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.240
<v Speaker 2>was just like that was pretty mind blowing. Oh yeah, Yeah,

0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.280
<v Speaker 2>although I do have a huge problem with the cracking

0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, because he's not from Greek mythology. I was

0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.200
<v Speaker 2>that kid, I still am that guy, clearly I'm mentioning

0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:03.560
<v Speaker 2>it now.

0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, my son actually points to your Olympian series often.

0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.040
<v Speaker 3>It's like, this is the real stuff, this is the

0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:11.920
<v Speaker 3>accurate stuff. It took me a long time to get

0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:16.160
<v Speaker 3>him into the mcu Thor movies because he would criticize

0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.040
<v Speaker 3>it constantly. It's like, this is not actually the way

0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.959
<v Speaker 3>the mythology works, this is not what Thor is about.

0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.120
<v Speaker 3>I had to like kind of just gently bring him

0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:25.400
<v Speaker 3>into it more and be like, well, you know, this

0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.240
<v Speaker 3>is a different version. This is a like a science

0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:29.720
<v Speaker 3>fiction using those characters.

0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Part of my original pitch for as Guardians, Like

0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I think the first line is Thor is not Loki's brother.

0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Loki is Odin's blood brother. If anything, Loki is his uncle,

0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and that's always describes attention. Like the Marvel versions of

0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Thor and Loki and Odin, all Norse mythology have so

0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:53.520
<v Speaker 2>firmly supplanted in the public consciousness. Any idea that people

0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.160
<v Speaker 2>have of the original, like you could just kind that's

0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.160
<v Speaker 2>like a controversial statement, like, yeah, they're not brothers, they're

0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.240
<v Speaker 2>like what and just the depictions of the gods are

0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.640
<v Speaker 2>so different, especially Thor. So my book Odin is coming

0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.800
<v Speaker 2>out soon. Thor comes out later in the year. It's

0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.240
<v Speaker 2>already done, and like the Thor of myth is such

0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.200
<v Speaker 2>like a delightful Lummis and like that was such a

0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.079
<v Speaker 2>fun book to do, probably the most fun I've ever

0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.440
<v Speaker 2>had doing a book. Is just he's this big, dumb,

0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:20.920
<v Speaker 2>muscle bound brute who just like you know, he just

0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.040
<v Speaker 2>lives to smash things with his hammer, which I mean,

0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I guess some of that is similar to the mcu version.

0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.000
<v Speaker 2>But he's also he's no Chris Hemsworth. He's not like

0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.280
<v Speaker 2>this gorgeous blonde guy. He's an overly muscled, like briskly

0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.880
<v Speaker 2>like haired, redheaded guy with a beard like covered with

0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.400
<v Speaker 2>body hair. It's just he's just a fun dude to

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.800
<v Speaker 2>draw who just delights and smashing.

0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.560
<v Speaker 3>That's gonna be a fun follow up to this, to

0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.840
<v Speaker 3>this Odin book, which was We'll talk about like this

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.480
<v Speaker 3>is a This is like a in many respects, like

0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:55.400
<v Speaker 3>a deeply weird grim tale. Not to say there's no

0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.839
<v Speaker 3>humor in it, but it leans more towards the weird

0:11:58.840 --> 0:11:59.360
<v Speaker 3>and the grim.

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does. I don't know if that reflects anything

0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.560
<v Speaker 2>about my life or just like the actual storytelling. But

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:09.400
<v Speaker 2>what I've tried to do with each of these books

0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.840
<v Speaker 2>is to paint a portrait of the deity that's being featured.

0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.680
<v Speaker 2>And the thing that becomes very apparent when you read

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:22.160
<v Speaker 2>a series of Norse myths is that Odin's overall arc,

0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:27.960
<v Speaker 2>very consistent, is his obsession with knowledge. He's obsessed with

0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.080
<v Speaker 2>finding out more. And some of that is he has

0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 2>a sense of like the doom that awaits all the gods,

0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Ragnarok coming, and he's trying to stave that off. But

0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.000
<v Speaker 2>virtually every myth of him is him trying to learn

0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.200
<v Speaker 2>more and the sacrifices he makes. This is a god

0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.479
<v Speaker 2>who literally plucks out his own eye for an opportunity

0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 2>to learn more knowledge. You know, he famously hangs himself

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 2>on the tree Ignitosil in order like achieves like an

0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.320
<v Speaker 2>out of body experience in order to learn more about

0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.839
<v Speaker 2>what is to come. The story ends up being very

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.560
<v Speaker 2>like dark in a way, like exploration of like this

0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.560
<v Speaker 2>man who is obsessed with finding out his fate so

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:12.079
<v Speaker 2>he could try to stop it, and you know spoilers,

0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:13.280
<v Speaker 2>he's not going to be able to.

0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.960
<v Speaker 3>In working with some of these wild ideas settings and

0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:19.679
<v Speaker 3>events for Odin, did you ever feel like you were

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:24.000
<v Speaker 3>writing like a Jodorowski comic, because you know, it's pretty

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 3>it's pretty surreal and weird almost from the get go.

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really. That's a great way, but it's kind

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.920
<v Speaker 2>of tricky. Like I was just lamenting this to my

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.679
<v Speaker 2>partner the other day, Like some elements of Norse mythology,

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.200
<v Speaker 2>they'll just drop a line that's just so weird. You're like,

0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:44.840
<v Speaker 2>how do I interpret this? Like, for the Norse creation

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 2>myth involves a giant hermaphroditic creature named Emir who exists

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 2>in this void between worlds, and he kind of starts

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 2>butting living beings out of his armpits and stuff, and

0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.560
<v Speaker 2>these being eventually give birth to Odin and his brothers,

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:08.439
<v Speaker 2>who then they murder Emyr and builds like the entire

0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.680
<v Speaker 2>cosmos out of his body. And so I'm able to

0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.360
<v Speaker 2>say that is one thing, and it's pretty weird saying that,

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.480
<v Speaker 2>but then having to craft the visual imagery to go

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 2>with that. I spent a long time trying to strike

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 2>the right balance between gruesome and realistic and absurd. I'll say,

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.840
<v Speaker 2>my Emir kind of looks like the Staypuff marshmallow Man

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 2>a little bit just floating their naked in the void.

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.960
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I feel like that's the best way

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to handle it.

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:36.800
<v Speaker 3>And I have to say I was really impressed with

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.760
<v Speaker 3>how Odin comes together as a story as opposed to

0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 3>just like a sequence of strange tellings and half tellings.

0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, like it it really, you really do bring

0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.240
<v Speaker 3>it together and it isn't just this like surreal you know,

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 3>procession of images.

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One of the things that I actually tried to

0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 2>structure the episodes that start off more outlandish and bring

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.000
<v Speaker 2>it more into the like the the regression, the stories

0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.800
<v Speaker 2>get a little bit less insane in order to tell

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the story of Odin sacrificing everything he can for more wisdom.

0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Another thing I tried to do with this is so

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:18.480
<v Speaker 2>a little history of Norse mythology, frustratingly as opposed to

0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 2>Greek mythology, where there is enough material that has survived

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.760
<v Speaker 2>from antiquity that I could probably do a book year

0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 2>for rest of my life and never run even close

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.480
<v Speaker 2>to dry Norse mythology there's very little that survived to us,

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 2>and virtually everything that did survive was recorded in the

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Christian era after people stopped believing in these gods for

0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.520
<v Speaker 2>the most part. So you basically have the poetic Eta,

0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 2>which is a collection of various Skaldic poems, and you

0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 2>have the prose Eda, which was written by this guy

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>named Snorri Sterlisson, which is the best name ever. And

0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.240
<v Speaker 2>it's just this is kind of all that you get

0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 2>from these two things, Like there's not even much art

0:15:54.560 --> 0:16:01.200
<v Speaker 2>that survived. And with Snorri he's retelling Snory Sterlissen, the

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.560
<v Speaker 2>guy who wrote the Prosetta, he's retelling some of these

0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Scaldic poems that he was aware of and putting his

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.720
<v Speaker 2>own spin on them, as you should as a storyteller.

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 2>And I find that's such a part of the experience

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 2>of reading Norse mythology that I've never seen reflected in

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 2>any other retellings before. So, for instance, in the book Odin,

0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.680
<v Speaker 2>the main character in a sense is you the reader.

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.280
<v Speaker 2>There is actually someone who is you're being. It's you know,

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.120
<v Speaker 2>a rare case of second person narration, where somebody is

0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 2>describing to everything you're seeing and you walk into you.

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 2>You basically awake on a battlefield, and all around you

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 2>see all these dead Norsemen who'd been slaughtered, and there's

0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.400
<v Speaker 2>literally carrying crows eating them. And then these these women

0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 2>in silver come riding out of the sky on horses

0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 2>and it's the Valkyries and they're picking their spirits up

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 2>taking them to Valhalla, and all this stuff sounds kind

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 2>of familiar, and we all know, like I mean, or

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 2>maybe we don't, but Valhalla was like the Viking equivalent

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 2>of Heaven. It was a place that you went to

0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 2>and that was your goal. I valiantly in battle, and

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.480
<v Speaker 2>that was your reward. You'd go to Valhalla, this great

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 2>feast hall where there it would be just like they'd

0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 2>give you like mead and pork and you'd like party

0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 2>all day. And in the original pros Eda, there is

0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.920
<v Speaker 2>a poem, no, not a poem, it's like a piece

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.919
<v Speaker 2>of writing called the Guild Beginning, which is this description

0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.479
<v Speaker 2>of how the gods came to be and who Odin

0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.280
<v Speaker 2>was and some of the most famous myths. And it's

0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.480
<v Speaker 2>only our really account that we have of it, and

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.480
<v Speaker 2>it's structured in this very odd way where it is

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.000
<v Speaker 2>this Swedish king named Guilfi who has come to Valhalla

0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 2>and he's being addressed by these three kings who are

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.879
<v Speaker 2>seated in thrones, one atop each other, and their names

0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:48.080
<v Speaker 2>are High, just As High and Third. And it's such

0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 2>a weird element. And I'm like, when you read these stories,

0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 2>you get to know these guys. I've never seen them

0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.920
<v Speaker 2>include in this So I wanted Odin to be narrated

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.399
<v Speaker 2>by High just as High and Third to give you

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.920
<v Speaker 2>a feel of this original text. And of course High

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:05.720
<v Speaker 2>just as High and Third are more than you know,

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.080
<v Speaker 2>and like by the I won't reveal the spoilers when

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 2>they revealed to be who they really are.

0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.199
<v Speaker 3>I loved High just as High and Third, and I

0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.360
<v Speaker 3>have to say they reminded me quite a bit in

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.199
<v Speaker 3>the book of the various like EC comics characters that

0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.240
<v Speaker 3>you would have YES storytellers like Crip Keeper and Old Witch,

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.159
<v Speaker 3>or DC storytellers like canaan Abel.

0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was absolutely an influence of that. You know,

0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.120
<v Speaker 2>you go to the original version and they're a little

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.520
<v Speaker 2>bit more interchangeable. You don't really get a sense of

0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 2>their personalities. But because I was having these three narrators

0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.280
<v Speaker 2>appear on frame, I wanted them to show different aspects

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 2>of the stories being told, and so you like, for instance,

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I feel like the names themselves are hilarious. First one

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.160
<v Speaker 2>is named High. He's a high king. That makes sense.

0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Second one is just as High. It's like, Okay, I

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:52.919
<v Speaker 2>see you're going for a theme here. You're all equal.

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Third guys just like I'm third, It's like, what are

0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 2>you doing? But just as High. I felt like he

0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.359
<v Speaker 2>was more snarky. He was the middle one, and him

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.040
<v Speaker 2>an appearance. If you look at old illuminated manuscripts, that

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.280
<v Speaker 2>would be the place that we rescued these stories from.

0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.160
<v Speaker 2>That's the only way they were recorded. Like sometimes there's

0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 2>drawings of Odin and Loki in the borders that look

0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 2>like this, where he's almost like a clownish figure. And

0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 2>then the character of High, the first narrator to meet

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.480
<v Speaker 2>his mask. They're all masked, I should say, is based

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.840
<v Speaker 2>on a burial mask of an actual Viking chieftain. And

0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 2>the third one he's kind of based on another different

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.080
<v Speaker 2>mask that was recovered. He's more of a traveler figure.

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 2>They're all like giving different aspects of the personality of

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the god who's being featured in this book, which is Odin.

0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 3>Now you touched on the issue with the sources the

0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.080
<v Speaker 3>two ducks, right, they're sometimes described as ducks.

0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's really obscure that you found that one, but yes.

0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.119
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I guess I was. I was curious to

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 3>hear a little bit more about the creative challenges of

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.760
<v Speaker 3>not only stitching together some of these like various mysteries

0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.199
<v Speaker 3>and the text and things that are missing, like for instance,

0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.679
<v Speaker 3>Odin's brothers that come up and then just vanish. But

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 3>then also, I know you you discussed this in the

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.760
<v Speaker 3>Norse Code section of the book, some of the choices

0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.120
<v Speaker 3>you had to make visually, and you know that where

0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.320
<v Speaker 3>you know it's it's more about like what can you

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:33.720
<v Speaker 3>do that is different within like your own visual storytelling,

0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:35.760
<v Speaker 3>even going back through through Olympians.

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so for those of Norse Code is a section

0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 2>that I have at the back of each of the

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 2>as Guardians. The kind of it's almost like the DVD

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.239
<v Speaker 2>extras or the director's commentary for the book. I kind

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 2>of go in there. Sometimes it uses to make cheap jokes,

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.400
<v Speaker 2>but sometimes you just explain some of the processes behind

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 2>the different choices I made in depicting the stories. This way,

0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.440
<v Speaker 2>it's the it's the answer to an Olympians. It as

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.800
<v Speaker 2>the geek notes with it was spelled Greek with an

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.120
<v Speaker 2>R crossed out. Just kind of a way of kind

0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:07.960
<v Speaker 2>of like sharing a little bit more of the details

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.639
<v Speaker 2>of like just the utter geekery that I find in

0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:16.119
<v Speaker 2>these stories, and with the challenge in doing something like

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:21.160
<v Speaker 2>as Guardians is it's both a challenge and sometimes an aid. Right,

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.199
<v Speaker 2>there is so many gaps in our knowledge, and it

0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:31.240
<v Speaker 2>can be very frustrating. I was just you know, there's

0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.879
<v Speaker 2>the concept. Here's my favorite example, the concept of the

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:40.160
<v Speaker 2>nine worlds of Norse mythology. So the central like you know,

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.639
<v Speaker 2>image of like the way that the cosmos was assembled

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.960
<v Speaker 2>in the Norse worldview was there was a world tree

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.359
<v Speaker 2>called Ignita Sail. It was a giant ash tree that

0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.960
<v Speaker 2>had spread out over the cosmos and had roots in

0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.520
<v Speaker 2>three different worlds and had the other worlds assembled around

0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:59.040
<v Speaker 2>its branches. It's mentioned in multiple sources these nine worlds,

0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.240
<v Speaker 2>but nothing that survives tells us exactly what the nine

0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 2>worlds are. We just know that there are nine. So

0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:08.440
<v Speaker 2>one of the first things you have to do whenever

0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.440
<v Speaker 2>you're working on a series like as Guardians or any

0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 2>retelling is decide am I going to address this concept

0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.239
<v Speaker 2>that appears it's important? How am I going to do this?

0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:20.720
<v Speaker 2>I had to go and do my own research and

0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>decision making as to what these nine worlds would be,

0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.159
<v Speaker 2>which ones would they be? Because we never really know.

0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.919
<v Speaker 2>There's other stuff. Like you mentioned, Odin has two brothers

0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.480
<v Speaker 2>who figure very prominently in the creation. It's Villie and

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Vi who just kind of disappear. We don't know. And

0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.600
<v Speaker 2>it's probable if I was somebody who believed in these

0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:43.080
<v Speaker 2>gods who worship them, there's probably a story that explains

0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:46.760
<v Speaker 2>that you probably understand completely, but it just drops. So

0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:50.840
<v Speaker 2>from a modern storytelling sensibility, it can be very difficult

0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:52.760
<v Speaker 2>to be like, how am I going to address this

0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:56.240
<v Speaker 2>just weird thread where we have characters who are shaping

0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.399
<v Speaker 2>up to be I mean, they're co creators of the universe,

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.000
<v Speaker 2>but the main guy who then just absolutely one hundred

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.480
<v Speaker 2>percent disappear from the narrative. That could be tricky. It

0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:07.760
<v Speaker 2>also is nice and that it does give you room

0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:12.879
<v Speaker 2>to play in. This is across both series as Guardians Olympians,

0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:16.119
<v Speaker 2>there's been instances where I have roomed well, not just

0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.760
<v Speaker 2>that as a storyteller, like the delayres before me, it's

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.200
<v Speaker 2>absolutely imperative that you put your own spin on any story. Otherwise,

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.280
<v Speaker 2>what are you doing there. You're interpreting it, you're focusing

0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 2>it through your own experiences, your own point of views.

0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:32.640
<v Speaker 2>You're telling a story, and that's your job. And sometimes

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:35.480
<v Speaker 2>it's nice to have those gaps. And sometimes when the

0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:39.080
<v Speaker 2>gaps are as big as like, we don't know who

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.600
<v Speaker 2>this can We don't even know one hundred percent if

0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.359
<v Speaker 2>the goddess is Freya and Frig are the same person

0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.840
<v Speaker 2>or not, Like that's annoying. Like so it was a

0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of this going back and forth about like the

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:53.919
<v Speaker 2>nature of the world, the nature of the story is

0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.400
<v Speaker 2>going to tell it had to make some fundamental decisions

0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.960
<v Speaker 2>right off the bat. Actually, this is kind of fun.

0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:04.760
<v Speaker 2>So in Norse mythology, one of the key events in

0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:08.080
<v Speaker 2>the history of the world is the First War, and

0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:11.600
<v Speaker 2>it's a war between the Asir and the Vanir. The

0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Asir are the gods who occupy Asgard. Asgard literally means

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:19.400
<v Speaker 2>stronghold of the Sir and their number Odin is their chieftain.

0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Frig is one of the Asir thor Haim dials. Normally,

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.080
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the gods you know, are the Asir,

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.119
<v Speaker 2>and at some point in their history, early on, they

0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 2>encounter gods from another world, from Vanaheim. It's one of

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:36.159
<v Speaker 2>most people count as well. The Nine Worlds and the

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Veneer are different gods, and we never really learn all

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:43.560
<v Speaker 2>that much about them. We know they're gifted and prophecy.

0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:48.080
<v Speaker 2>There may be less warlike than the Asir. They seem

0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:52.800
<v Speaker 2>to maybe be associated with agriculture. And there's this battle

0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:54.400
<v Speaker 2>that they have and at the end of the battle

0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:59.359
<v Speaker 2>which seems like the Veneer actually win because they you know,

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:04.680
<v Speaker 2>they could see what coming. There is an exchange of hostages,

0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 2>which doesn't mean the same thing. Back then, it was

0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 2>more like, think of distinguished guests. In order to keep

0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 2>the peace, two as Guardians went to Vanier, Honier and

0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Momir Mimir, and then three of the Vanir come to Asgard, Freya,

0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 2>her twin brother Frey, and their father Innured. Now this

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:26.920
<v Speaker 2>is where it gets interesting, to be like this whole

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.240
<v Speaker 2>idea of these gaps, right, I mentioned offhand, we're not

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.360
<v Speaker 2>even sure if Freya and Frigg are distinct goddesses. Frig

0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:38.600
<v Speaker 2>is the queen of Odin of the Aussier. She's one

0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 2>of my favorite characters. There's this amazing line about her,

0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:44.439
<v Speaker 2>I think I have it, oh open her up to

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:50.000
<v Speaker 2>it in the Guild Beginning where frig is Odin's wife,

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:52.680
<v Speaker 2>she knows the fates of men, even though she pronounces

0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:56.639
<v Speaker 2>no prophecies, like she knows all that's going to happen.

0:25:56.720 --> 0:25:59.560
<v Speaker 2>She's actually smarter than Odin, and Odin's whole struggle for

0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:02.639
<v Speaker 2>knowledge is partially because he could sense this grief in

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:05.480
<v Speaker 2>her and he's trying to he It drives him nuts

0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:07.240
<v Speaker 2>that she knows the stuff and she won't say she

0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:10.280
<v Speaker 2>is somebody who understands the way fate works, even though

0:26:10.280 --> 0:26:13.639
<v Speaker 2>she does attempt to buckle it in some ways. Now

0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:17.680
<v Speaker 2>among the goddesses that come over from the Veneer is Freya,

0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:21.200
<v Speaker 2>very famous goddess. Freya also has the ability to see

0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:26.760
<v Speaker 2>the future. Freya has a husband named Ode. Like od

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:28.879
<v Speaker 2>and Ode and Freya and like people like this is

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the same thing, and it's it's very odd, and my

0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.640
<v Speaker 2>take on it is I think the user Vener War

0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:40.240
<v Speaker 2>is probably a myth that came about when the group

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:43.640
<v Speaker 2>of ancient Norse people or Icelandic people Scandinavians will say

0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:47.240
<v Speaker 2>who worshiped the sir met a related group of people

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 2>who worshiped the pretty much the same pantheon under slightly

0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:53.440
<v Speaker 2>different names. Think of like the way the Greeks and

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.320
<v Speaker 2>the Romans worshiped the same gods. They had a fight.

0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 2>They kind of came together as a group of people exchange,

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, people intermarried, but for whatever reason, instead of

0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:05.040
<v Speaker 2>the gods becoming fully assimilated, they kept them as two

0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:08.400
<v Speaker 2>separate gods. Because Freya and frig are clearly the same

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:12.960
<v Speaker 2>goddess Odin, Odin are definitely the same god, and there's

0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:16.160
<v Speaker 2>other similarities. And so I kind of treat it without

0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:19.439
<v Speaker 2>ever saying it using my superhero logic. I feel like

0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Vanaheim is kind of like the Earth Too version of Asgard,

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 2>where it's like an alternate dimension version where like these

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.399
<v Speaker 2>are like the like you know, the multiverse type stuff.

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:31.960
<v Speaker 2>So I like, this is the version of the god,

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:36.640
<v Speaker 2>and like it's using that superhero comics logic to kind

0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 2>of explain these these bigger mythologies.

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I absolutely love love the way you handle it. Yeah,

0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:44.879
<v Speaker 3>it did. And at the same time, like I know,

0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:47.119
<v Speaker 3>I know you're explaining like the superhero logic of it,

0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 3>and all I don't want to I don't want to

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:51.119
<v Speaker 3>give the impression to the listeners that it that it

0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:55.040
<v Speaker 3>is like like old timey Marvel comics and its presentations

0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:57.280
<v Speaker 3>is because the way you present it it does come

0:27:57.320 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 3>off as is very surreal and uh an alien in

0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:05.720
<v Speaker 3>a way that that I feel like a lot of

0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:08.520
<v Speaker 3>the Norse mythology feels to me when I encounter it's

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:13.240
<v Speaker 3>it's yeah, it's details like it's it's a you know,

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:16.239
<v Speaker 3>a religion and in a mythology that is it is

0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:21.040
<v Speaker 3>so distant from from what I know, and and yet

0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:22.880
<v Speaker 3>it has this richness to it.

0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:26.399
<v Speaker 2>Thanks. Yeah, yeah, it's there's a superior logic underlying it,

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:28.120
<v Speaker 2>but it's definitely not. It doesn't mean like a supero

0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:30.600
<v Speaker 2>story that is interesting what you hit on there. There

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:32.639
<v Speaker 2>is something about the Norse mythology and it's one of

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:36.440
<v Speaker 2>things that interests me so much Greek mythology. Having done

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the whole series in Olympians, there's some big differences between

0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:41.640
<v Speaker 2>the way we think and the way ancient Greeks think,

0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:48.200
<v Speaker 2>but there's an underlying familial similarity. Like I A would say,

0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:50.280
<v Speaker 2>the reason we love the Olympians still is there just

0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:53.440
<v Speaker 2>an abstraction of a big, crazy family. Like even though

0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 2>they're gods and they behave terribly, they're very relatable in

0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 2>a way, like there is some stuff that happens in

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:02.840
<v Speaker 2>the Norse. There is just a basic underlying thing that's

0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:06.000
<v Speaker 2>just it is a bit more alien, I think if

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:09.080
<v Speaker 2>you just look at their their idea of the ideal afterlife.

0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned Valhalla. If you die of old age, of

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:16.760
<v Speaker 2>sickness any other ways than battle, you don't get to

0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:20.320
<v Speaker 2>go to Valhalla. Valhalla was like the reward you would

0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:24.560
<v Speaker 2>get for dying in battle. And moreover, you would go

0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 2>to Valhalla, and like I said, you would be fed

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:30.200
<v Speaker 2>on pork and drink meat all day, which maybe sounds

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:33.600
<v Speaker 2>pretty nice day and day out. But every night these

0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:35.880
<v Speaker 2>warriors would get up and hack each other to pieces,

0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 2>like and like that was your eternal battle, was your reward,

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 2>and that you would be like, yay, that was great battle.

0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Could they would be reborn in the morning and so

0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:47.480
<v Speaker 2>you wake up and you'd be like, that was great.

0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:49.240
<v Speaker 2>The way I cut that guy into pieces the night

0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 2>before and then my head was lopped off, Like this

0:29:51.640 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 2>was like the idea, Like that's most people would not

0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:57.120
<v Speaker 2>find that to be the idea of heaven, and I

0:29:57.120 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 2>feel like that just says like how very different Norse

0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:02.320
<v Speaker 2>mythology is from our standard, like our way of being.

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Now I'm working in a book now, the third book

0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 2>in the series. I'm currently writing it, and there is

0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:12.440
<v Speaker 2>a character, a mythological character who previously had been blinded,

0:30:13.440 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and the gods talk about that like this is a shame,

0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:19.240
<v Speaker 2>like he lost his eyesight in battle, but like that's

0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:21.520
<v Speaker 2>something that's just like it's too bad you weren't killed,

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:23.840
<v Speaker 2>like and that's not the way that we would view this.

0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.200
<v Speaker 2>And like there's also the story of the god Tyr,

0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:28.920
<v Speaker 2>the god of war, who when they bind Fenri of

0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:32.760
<v Speaker 2>the Wolf, he actually sacrifices his hand so that in

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:34.840
<v Speaker 2>order to get this wolf, Like the wolf's like, eh,

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.240
<v Speaker 2>you're obviously trying to bind me, and they're like, oh no, look,

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Tyr will stick his hand in your mouth and if

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 2>he can't break the chain, we'll let you go. And

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:42.880
<v Speaker 2>if we don't, you could bite his hand off. And

0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 2>he can't break the chain, they don't let him go,

0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 2>so he bites off Tyr's hand and when you realize

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Tyr is their god of war for him to lose

0:30:50.520 --> 0:30:55.320
<v Speaker 2>his sword arm like that that's an amazing sacrifice. And

0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 2>it's it's interesting you see this character like these these

0:30:59.840 --> 0:31:02.080
<v Speaker 2>the of like just like what did that mean to them?

0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Come up with these stories, and I'm trying to use

0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:06.479
<v Speaker 2>as guardians to kind of explore more than just like

0:31:06.840 --> 0:31:08.600
<v Speaker 2>just the event of a god getting his hand bit

0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 2>off or another god getting blinded, Like what did that

0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:13.640
<v Speaker 2>mean in the larger family of the gods? What did

0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:17.000
<v Speaker 2>that mean if you were an ancient Scandinavian who these

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:19.280
<v Speaker 2>are your deities? What did it mean that your god

0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:21.600
<v Speaker 2>of war was suddenly without his sword arm?

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, And speaking of you know, some of these

0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 3>examples of bloodshed and violence, I want to mention one

0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:33.040
<v Speaker 3>of the things that I really love about Odin and

0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:36.640
<v Speaker 3>also the Olympian series, and is that So these are

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:38.040
<v Speaker 3>books that I think if you like look him up

0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:41.120
<v Speaker 3>on Amazon, they say nine years to fourteen years is

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:44.680
<v Speaker 3>like the reading range, And of course I would stress that, Yeah,

0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:47.600
<v Speaker 3>I read them and I ritually enjoyed them, so you

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:50.000
<v Speaker 3>don't need to stop reading them at fourteen. But my

0:31:50.080 --> 0:31:52.640
<v Speaker 3>son read them very much in that in that frame

0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:57.160
<v Speaker 3>of ages, and I'd really appreciated the way that you were.

0:31:57.640 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 3>You didn't sugarcoat anything. You like, the gods of the

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:05.760
<v Speaker 3>Greek pantheon are are still problematic in your in your work,

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.360
<v Speaker 3>and you explore that, you you know, you get into

0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:12.240
<v Speaker 3>this realm of of not only like heroes the anti

0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:15.880
<v Speaker 3>heroes in partiction, but potentially villains in the guise of heroes.

0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, you and I had spoke previously one time

0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:23.480
<v Speaker 2>about my take of theseus. The hero of the quote

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.959
<v Speaker 2>unquote hero of the Minotaur story, who you know, he

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 2>kills the minotaur, and my taken him as I wrote

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:34.120
<v Speaker 2>him as a villain, like the sugar coating of stories

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.040
<v Speaker 2>of Greek mythology. I feel like there could be no

0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:38.680
<v Speaker 2>greater disservice or mistake that you do to mythology to

0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:42.680
<v Speaker 2>do that. These stories often are produced for a younger

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:45.480
<v Speaker 2>audience in our day and age, but they were meant

0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:48.120
<v Speaker 2>These were not just stories meant as entertainment for the

0:32:48.160 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 2>ancient peoples that believed in them. These are stories that

0:32:50.560 --> 0:32:53.160
<v Speaker 2>explain the world around them. And like, if you're removing

0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:56.080
<v Speaker 2>an element that is problematic by today's standards, you're kind

0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:59.480
<v Speaker 2>of inextricably altering the story in a way that's you

0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:04.280
<v Speaker 2>might as well be telling that particular story. The way

0:33:04.280 --> 0:33:08.880
<v Speaker 2>I've always handled it is I try it's all in there.

0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I just try not to be explicit about it. You know,

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 2>if there's a horrible dismemberment, I might not show it

0:33:17.160 --> 0:33:19.719
<v Speaker 2>as much as much as like, you know, kind of

0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 2>artfully showing a bit of it in the shadow or

0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:26.840
<v Speaker 2>off panel or with gruesome sound effects. I think it's

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:28.960
<v Speaker 2>from growing up watching a movie like Alien where you

0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:31.680
<v Speaker 2>never actually see the creature. It's so much more scary

0:33:31.760 --> 0:33:34.640
<v Speaker 2>that way. Like, I really do believe that. I know

0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 2>it's almost hackneyed to say it, but like your imagination

0:33:38.200 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 2>is going to concoct something so much more gruesome than

0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:47.760
<v Speaker 2>even the most talented and gifted artist. Like so, storytelling,

0:33:48.440 --> 0:33:52.560
<v Speaker 2>especially comics, I strongly believe, is a very collaborative effort,

0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 2>not just in the fact that many comics are produced

0:33:54.680 --> 0:33:57.880
<v Speaker 2>by many people, but it's very much a collaboration with

0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:03.640
<v Speaker 2>the audience. A series of illustrations and words placed around

0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:08.600
<v Speaker 2>the illustrations, and if you do the magic right, it

0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.760
<v Speaker 2>comes together in the alchemy that it should. The reader

0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:14.200
<v Speaker 2>brings the story to life in their brain like it

0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:17.319
<v Speaker 2>plays like a movie, and they'll read extra stuff into it.

0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:19.399
<v Speaker 2>They'll fill in cracks that you don't even have there.

0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 2>And it also makes for comics to be such an

0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 2>amazingly versatile storytelling medium, like you were saying, these were

0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:31.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, Amazon says these are nine to fourteen, but

0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:34.760
<v Speaker 2>you know a lot of adults read them too, because

0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:37.360
<v Speaker 2>you can write on so many different levels with comics.

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:39.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like, you know, you tell one story at the words,

0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:43.200
<v Speaker 2>one story at the pictures. They come together depending what

0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:45.399
<v Speaker 2>you bring as a reader, you're going to bring all

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:48.360
<v Speaker 2>different levels. I could write some very adult stuff in

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.200
<v Speaker 2>n as Guardians or Olympians, and just by phrasing it

0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:53.840
<v Speaker 2>in the right way, no kid will ever get exactly

0:34:53.920 --> 0:34:55.480
<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying, but an adult picks up on it

0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:58.160
<v Speaker 2>immediately like, oh okay, I see what's going on there,

0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and that's I think that's what the magics about comics.

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:04.920
<v Speaker 2>And as somebody who grew up reading comics and you

0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:08.240
<v Speaker 2>would read them over and over again, a good comic

0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:11.120
<v Speaker 2>is designed, in my opinion, to be read multiple times

0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:14.040
<v Speaker 2>because of those different elements that make up the page.

0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Like the first time you read it, you probably focus

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:18.560
<v Speaker 2>mostly on the words, because you know, why wouldn't you.

0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 2>But then you read it a second time, and you're

0:35:21.000 --> 0:35:23.480
<v Speaker 2>gonna already have a general sense of what those words say,

0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:26.319
<v Speaker 2>and you're going to pay more attention to the illustrations

0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:29.000
<v Speaker 2>that the words are embedded in, and like the third

0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:31.120
<v Speaker 2>and fourth time you read it, it's when that that

0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:34.640
<v Speaker 2>real magic starts happening, when like everything starts coming together

0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:37.680
<v Speaker 2>and swirling. You're noticing little details you never noticed before,

0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:40.919
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's one of the things I think makes

0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:42.120
<v Speaker 2>comics so wonderful.

0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:44.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I remember when when my son was first reading

0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:47.600
<v Speaker 3>your Olympians books, he would actually the first past of

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:49.480
<v Speaker 3>the book, he would just look at the pictures and

0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:52.000
<v Speaker 3>then he will and then he would do the text.

0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:54.560
<v Speaker 3>And I think now it's it's more of a normal

0:35:55.120 --> 0:35:56.840
<v Speaker 3>or not normal. There's no normal way, I guess to

0:35:56.840 --> 0:35:58.759
<v Speaker 3>read comic book, but I think now it's more of

0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:01.080
<v Speaker 3>a balanced way where he's he's reading through it with

0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:04.080
<v Speaker 3>images and the text, and then I don't know what

0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 3>the subsequent re reads are like.

0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it's just it's probably different each time

0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:11.120
<v Speaker 2>because you have the two different pillars coming together to

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:13.040
<v Speaker 2>make a third. You know now that you mention it.

0:36:13.080 --> 0:36:15.080
<v Speaker 2>When I was a kid, and I got a comic,

0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:17.279
<v Speaker 2>especially with someone who's waiting for like part two or

0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:19.400
<v Speaker 2>part three of a story. First time would just be

0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 2>a frantic flip through to see the pictures, like what's

0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:24.240
<v Speaker 2>good on, what's going on? Oh my god, what's happening there?

0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:26.480
<v Speaker 2>And then you would go back and read it again

0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:28.800
<v Speaker 2>and just you got to hope that the story matches

0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:30.279
<v Speaker 2>what you made up in your head, and that first

0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:31.560
<v Speaker 2>pass through. Yeah.

0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:34.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. In my own experience, I find that, Yeah, sometimes

0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:37.560
<v Speaker 3>I'll be reading a comic book and I don't read

0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 3>as many as I imagine a lot of folks out there,

0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:44.040
<v Speaker 3>but occasionally dip into the comic books, and you know,

0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:46.359
<v Speaker 3>there'll be times where I feel like it's more the

0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:49.640
<v Speaker 3>text pulling me along than the images. Sometimes it's the

0:36:49.640 --> 0:36:51.960
<v Speaker 3>detriment of the images, which are often like really great,

0:36:52.040 --> 0:36:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Like I think back to the Alan Moore Swamp things books, like,

0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:58.160
<v Speaker 3>sometimes yeah, the pros is so good, like that's what's

0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:01.200
<v Speaker 3>pulling me, and I don't have to either like sort

0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:03.640
<v Speaker 3>of slow down or go back and reread it so

0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:05.359
<v Speaker 3>I can appreciate the visuals as well.

0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:07.759
<v Speaker 2>Alan Moore is a prime example of somebody whose books

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:10.960
<v Speaker 2>you need to multiple times. I think he very often

0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:16.000
<v Speaker 2>writes an opposite text from what's being depicted in the pictures.

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:19.839
<v Speaker 2>You know, his famous graphic novel Watchmen. There's so much

0:37:19.840 --> 0:37:22.200
<v Speaker 2>of that where if you were only to read Watchmen,

0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:25.319
<v Speaker 2>you would definitely not get the entire story because so

0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:28.480
<v Speaker 2>often what Dave Gibbons is doing in the art is

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:31.640
<v Speaker 2>showing something very different than what's being shown just in

0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:34.839
<v Speaker 2>the words, and that's you know, there's not really too

0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.399
<v Speaker 2>many art forms that have that, especially in the printed word.

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Comics are that's kind of a storytelling style that they

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:45.080
<v Speaker 2>have a lockdown that no one else can really touch.

0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:47.200
<v Speaker 2>You can't really do that with just pros.

0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:49.959
<v Speaker 3>I really liked your point about the two pillars coming

0:37:49.960 --> 0:37:52.440
<v Speaker 3>together in a third because it's like, I know this

0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 3>is the kay, I know that there, you know, there's

0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:58.600
<v Speaker 3>the with just an unillustrated book that there is of

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:00.840
<v Speaker 3>course the text, and there's the image the forms in

0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:03.359
<v Speaker 3>my mind, and then recollection of all of this. And

0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:06.120
<v Speaker 3>then with a film too, we can often find ourselves

0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:11.040
<v Speaker 3>misremembering or re capitulating things that happened or didn't happen

0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:13.279
<v Speaker 3>in the film. But with comics it's kind of like

0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:16.399
<v Speaker 3>i'd never really thought about that that third pillar coming

0:38:16.440 --> 0:38:19.680
<v Speaker 3>together based on the images and the because it's almost like, well,

0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:21.680
<v Speaker 3>it's all there. You have a perfect record of what

0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:25.040
<v Speaker 3>you should be thinking and visualizing, but it's not quite

0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:25.480
<v Speaker 3>the case.

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:27.759
<v Speaker 2>The one thing I've heard about comics too, and I

0:38:27.800 --> 0:38:29.319
<v Speaker 2>agree with this, that you could do that makes them

0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:32.680
<v Speaker 2>very different than say a movie, because movies words and

0:38:32.719 --> 0:38:35.880
<v Speaker 2>pictures coming together too. Comics it is there all at once,

0:38:36.040 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 2>like you know, you can flip through like one at

0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:40.360
<v Speaker 2>a time and a panel on an e reader, but

0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:44.879
<v Speaker 2>often it's just you're if the way it's presented, you're

0:38:44.920 --> 0:38:48.680
<v Speaker 2>seeing like an entire page or entire spread laid out

0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:51.440
<v Speaker 2>at once, and there's things as a creator I could do.

0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:54.640
<v Speaker 2>I try to keep big reveals for page turns, so

0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:56.799
<v Speaker 2>that if like a character reveals their identity, you don't

0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:58.400
<v Speaker 2>see in the middle of the page. It's like you

0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:01.080
<v Speaker 2>turn the page just to keep that secret a little

0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:03.279
<v Speaker 2>bit longer, because yeah, you flip that page and you

0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:05.680
<v Speaker 2>get a weird sense and you can move back and

0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:08.080
<v Speaker 2>forth in time so easy in comics like oh what

0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:09.799
<v Speaker 2>does this reference to? Let me flip back a couple

0:39:09.800 --> 0:39:11.839
<v Speaker 2>of pages. I mean, you could watch a movie that way,

0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:14.279
<v Speaker 2>but it's gonna be unpleasant by Bay sitting there with

0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:15.000
<v Speaker 2>you watching it.

0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:27.880
<v Speaker 3>So coming back to Odin, yeah, there's again there's a

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 3>lot of weird, wonderful things and terrifying things that happen

0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:37.640
<v Speaker 3>on the page here that you adapted from the Norse sources.

0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 3>Were what was the weirdest and most challenging odentic myth

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:43.040
<v Speaker 3>that you had to tackle here?

0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Oooh wow, that's like a good question. We talked a

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.440
<v Speaker 2>little bit about, like just the creation of the world

0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:52.080
<v Speaker 2>aspect can be pretty weird because it's just like where

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:56.319
<v Speaker 2>are you like the elements coming onto that are just

0:39:56.360 --> 0:40:00.600
<v Speaker 2>so odd. But I think probably from my money, the

0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:03.479
<v Speaker 2>one that was the most challenging in a way is

0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:09.279
<v Speaker 2>when Odin sacrifices himself on the tree igdocil So. In

0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:13.080
<v Speaker 2>his ongoing attempts for knowledge through his encounter in the

0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:17.160
<v Speaker 2>Asir Vanir War, through his encounters, what he perceives in Frig,

0:40:17.280 --> 0:40:20.000
<v Speaker 2>what he has picked up from talking to Freya, who

0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:22.400
<v Speaker 2>shows him just a little bit, he knows there is

0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:25.399
<v Speaker 2>a great doom coming upon the gods. It's a very

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:28.320
<v Speaker 2>personal doom for him too, and he wants to find

0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:31.440
<v Speaker 2>a way to learn more, and so he hangs himself

0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:34.800
<v Speaker 2>on the tree like literally the gallows sort of stuff.

0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:37.520
<v Speaker 2>One of his titles, by the way, like a cultic

0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 2>title for him, was the Gallows God. He was very

0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:44.839
<v Speaker 2>much associated with the hanged figure sometimes that people would

0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:47.719
<v Speaker 2>actually think the Norse would actually sacrifice to Odin by

0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:50.440
<v Speaker 2>hanging a person like that was it was a thing

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:53.880
<v Speaker 2>they did. Odin subjects us to himself in a way

0:40:54.160 --> 0:40:57.280
<v Speaker 2>to sort of have the hidden language of the universe

0:40:57.320 --> 0:40:59.719
<v Speaker 2>revealed to him, which is the ruins. We all know

0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.160
<v Speaker 2>what uns or we've seen them, and it comes to

0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:07.600
<v Speaker 2>him in kind of like a spirit quest. So me

0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:10.720
<v Speaker 2>talking about that, that doesn't sound like it's maybe that hard,

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:16.719
<v Speaker 2>But for somebody, I'm crafting something I want someone to

0:41:16.760 --> 0:41:19.880
<v Speaker 2>be entertained by, and it's gonna it's like seven or

0:41:19.880 --> 0:41:22.400
<v Speaker 2>eight pages of just a man being hanged by the

0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:27.279
<v Speaker 2>neck and what he's seeing. What is that famous? There's

0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:31.279
<v Speaker 2>that famous Twilight Zone episode where the guy is just

0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:33.400
<v Speaker 2>being hanged the entire time and at the end it

0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:36.960
<v Speaker 2>reveals spoilers that he like everything he dreams, like he

0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:40.680
<v Speaker 2>dreams he breaks down off the noose and he goes

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:43.480
<v Speaker 2>back to his family and at the end he dies.

0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:46.920
<v Speaker 2>It's like Odin having this out of body experience the

0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:49.960
<v Speaker 2>entire time where he's just seeing stuff like I actually

0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:53.360
<v Speaker 2>have him see the Norns, who are the equivalent of

0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the Fates from Greek mythology. They were figures that would

0:41:58.640 --> 0:42:00.840
<v Speaker 2>tell you the future, and they veel the secret of

0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:03.560
<v Speaker 2>the Nords to him. And so the imagery for this

0:42:03.600 --> 0:42:05.600
<v Speaker 2>is actually, for the most part straightforward. It's just it's

0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:09.640
<v Speaker 2>finding a way to show such a static scene for

0:42:09.719 --> 0:42:13.359
<v Speaker 2>so long and have it still be interesting. And yeah,

0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.040
<v Speaker 2>this is an example of using those two pillars the

0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:20.000
<v Speaker 2>words in the pictures. Sometimes you could just pull back

0:42:20.040 --> 0:42:22.399
<v Speaker 2>and hold on a dramatic shot of him, a lot

0:42:22.440 --> 0:42:25.799
<v Speaker 2>of extreme close ups showing some of the acting of

0:42:25.800 --> 0:42:28.880
<v Speaker 2>what he's going through through his facial features some of it,

0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:32.239
<v Speaker 2>and what's being in his internal monologue, some of what's

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.040
<v Speaker 2>being said by the people who are observing him. That

0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:37.359
<v Speaker 2>was actually a tricky scene I remember playing with because

0:42:37.480 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 2>it could become a real boring slog for reader if

0:42:40.160 --> 0:42:43.719
<v Speaker 2>you're not careful, and it ends up being Having just

0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:48.680
<v Speaker 2>reread the book myself recently, which is always weird. I'm

0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:50.160
<v Speaker 2>always in a bit of a fugue state when I

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:52.880
<v Speaker 2>make these things, so I'm always like, oh, that's interesting.

0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:55.520
<v Speaker 2>I was quite pleased with the way that sequence came out.

0:42:56.480 --> 0:42:59.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you have capturing everything you just said, but

0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:02.120
<v Speaker 3>on top of that not being overtly grim or anything

0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:06.400
<v Speaker 3>as well. It despite being like a grim sequence.

0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:10.239
<v Speaker 2>In the text, it's it's driven by that curiosity. Like

0:43:10.280 --> 0:43:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I find Odin to be a very relatable and interesting

0:43:13.760 --> 0:43:16.719
<v Speaker 2>character that way, because his whole thing is like, it

0:43:16.760 --> 0:43:18.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter what knowledge will cost him, he will do

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:21.880
<v Speaker 2>anything for knowledge. I did have some fun with the

0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:26.400
<v Speaker 2>visuals in that. So in my previous series Olympians, I

0:43:26.440 --> 0:43:30.040
<v Speaker 2>mentioned there's the characters, the moree the fates who we know,

0:43:30.120 --> 0:43:32.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, if the fates allow sort of sa thing.

0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:36.359
<v Speaker 2>And in Greek mythology they were depicted as typically as

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:39.880
<v Speaker 2>three women wearing robes, three young women. That's the way

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:41.640
<v Speaker 2>you'd see and that's pretty much I did too. You

0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:43.360
<v Speaker 2>never see their faces, they're just you see like the

0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:47.800
<v Speaker 2>botom half their faces, and the norns from Norse mythology

0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:51.839
<v Speaker 2>are often depicted exactly the same. It's a good time

0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 2>to mention there's a lot of overlap between Norse and

0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Greek mythology, and especially because we got Norse mythology in

0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:00.799
<v Speaker 2>such an incomplete state. I think a lot of what

0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 2>was well known in the world about Greek mythology was

0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:06.920
<v Speaker 2>imprinted in Norse mythology. So I didn't want to just

0:44:06.960 --> 0:44:09.400
<v Speaker 2>repeat the same character designs that did occur to me,

0:44:09.520 --> 0:44:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Like how fun would that be. It's like, hey, look,

0:44:11.200 --> 0:44:15.000
<v Speaker 2>it's the Fates from as Guardian from Olympians. I actually

0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:18.400
<v Speaker 2>designed them to look like the bog people, you know

0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:24.000
<v Speaker 2>throughout Europe, specifically you know in the more pad areas

0:44:24.160 --> 0:44:26.440
<v Speaker 2>there have been. They just found it really cool. On

0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:30.600
<v Speaker 2>the other day, where there are preserved bodies, ancient bodies

0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:33.239
<v Speaker 2>that were like preserved in peat moss because of the

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:37.000
<v Speaker 2>high acidic content of the swamps, and the bodies will

0:44:37.040 --> 0:44:39.200
<v Speaker 2>still have their skin intact. They'll have like a somewhat

0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:42.440
<v Speaker 2>skeletal appearance, but like they'll still have skin that look

0:44:42.480 --> 0:44:45.440
<v Speaker 2>like they're made of like tanned leather, and elements like

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:49.920
<v Speaker 2>their clothing will still be preserved, tattoos, sometimes facial features

0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:53.960
<v Speaker 2>depending And that was such an interesting European idea that like,

0:44:54.000 --> 0:44:56.319
<v Speaker 2>I actually made my norms look like they were the

0:44:56.360 --> 0:45:00.759
<v Speaker 2>bog people. Just thought was something that helped to extinguish extinguished,

0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:04.720
<v Speaker 2>helped it to distinguish them from their Grecian counterparts.

0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:10.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I love that detail. Now here's another

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:12.200
<v Speaker 3>just sort of I don't know, technical and or creative

0:45:12.280 --> 0:45:16.800
<v Speaker 3>question about putting together comic book. How does like color

0:45:16.840 --> 0:45:21.279
<v Speaker 3>palette factor into your choices in specific color choices, but

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:23.840
<v Speaker 3>just sort of like the overall color scheme for a

0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:24.480
<v Speaker 3>given work.

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:28.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, I want to say. I feel like color

0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:32.080
<v Speaker 2>is super important and at points in the history of

0:45:32.120 --> 0:45:36.520
<v Speaker 2>comics was an undervalued part to the actual feel of

0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:40.960
<v Speaker 2>a comic. With Olympians, I did all the colors myself.

0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Olympians was such a near and dear project in my heart,

0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:48.520
<v Speaker 2>and I was so I joke about being in control,

0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:52.880
<v Speaker 2>freaking that there was such specific ways I wanted to

0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:56.600
<v Speaker 2>depict things that I colored that myself, and that did

0:45:56.680 --> 0:46:00.279
<v Speaker 2>take a lot of time. And with as Guardians, I

0:46:00.320 --> 0:46:03.600
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be able to branch out. I wanted to

0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:06.279
<v Speaker 2>be able to share, like I wanted to be able

0:46:06.280 --> 0:46:07.920
<v Speaker 2>to do other things. I wanted not to be like

0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 2>breaking myself creating these books. And I also I kind

0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:13.360
<v Speaker 2>of realized I'm not maybe the best colors in the

0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:16.480
<v Speaker 2>world I had some good ideas about color theory, but

0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:19.200
<v Speaker 2>sometimes my execution I felt could be a little bit flat.

0:46:19.719 --> 0:46:21.880
<v Speaker 2>So for Odin, we actually, for the first time I

0:46:21.920 --> 0:46:24.280
<v Speaker 2>worked with an outside colorist on one of these books.

0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:27.400
<v Speaker 2>It was this very talented cartoonist named Norm Grock. You

0:46:27.400 --> 0:46:30.800
<v Speaker 2>could look him up Grock. He does his own stuff,

0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:35.200
<v Speaker 2>and he worked. I would write him such long notes

0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:37.640
<v Speaker 2>about like what the color should be, because it did

0:46:37.760 --> 0:46:41.600
<v Speaker 2>mean a lot the specific ideas behind each scene. And

0:46:42.120 --> 0:46:45.080
<v Speaker 2>one of the things I had told him in establishing

0:46:45.160 --> 0:46:47.720
<v Speaker 2>this world is I never want to see a blue

0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:52.799
<v Speaker 2>sky in as Guardians. It's always either overcast, magic hour

0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:57.000
<v Speaker 2>or night, and that's the only encounters we have because

0:46:57.000 --> 0:47:00.400
<v Speaker 2>that reflects the world that the Norse lived in. I mean,

0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:02.799
<v Speaker 2>there are blue skies, to be sure in Norway occasionally,

0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:06.680
<v Speaker 2>but it's not the image I wanted to depict here, right.

0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I would do rough colors just to show him,

0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:14.960
<v Speaker 2>like in the instance of the marshmallow Man emre hermaphroditic giant,

0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:17.200
<v Speaker 2>that was he was like, I have no idea how

0:47:17.239 --> 0:47:19.839
<v Speaker 2>to color this. I'm like, this is he should look

0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:23.560
<v Speaker 2>like this? And it was specifics, like I wanted certain

0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:27.120
<v Speaker 2>things that were very important to me in the myths.

0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:31.040
<v Speaker 2>I wanted Thor to have red hair. I wanted Odin

0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:33.839
<v Speaker 2>to have brown hair with gray streaks, and we use

0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:36.080
<v Speaker 2>that actually to show his age because a big difference

0:47:36.080 --> 0:47:39.920
<v Speaker 2>between Greek gods and as Guardian gods is they the

0:47:39.960 --> 0:47:43.799
<v Speaker 2>Norse gods do age at a slower rate. But there

0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:45.680
<v Speaker 2>was so many you could use the color in so

0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:48.960
<v Speaker 2>many different ways. Just about the mood. I don't know,

0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:51.239
<v Speaker 2>that is a fun question. I'm glad we actually got

0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:52.759
<v Speaker 2>to mention that.

0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:55.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the giant because he

0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:57.600
<v Speaker 3>had the coloration that you end up going with here.

0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:00.000
<v Speaker 3>It is you know, it's pale but a little bit

0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:04.480
<v Speaker 3>like pink, but like so it doesn't feel like a corpse,

0:48:04.520 --> 0:48:08.560
<v Speaker 3>but it doesn't feel completely alive. Like there's a nice,

0:48:08.760 --> 0:48:12.480
<v Speaker 3>wonderful inter zone that is creative here with the colors game.

0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was trying to go for a few things

0:48:14.640 --> 0:48:17.160
<v Speaker 2>with Emir, Like I wanted him to look half formed,

0:48:17.200 --> 0:48:20.040
<v Speaker 2>like you picked up on. He's also kind of created

0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:22.000
<v Speaker 2>from ice, so I wanted to have the ice thing.

0:48:22.719 --> 0:48:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying he, I should be saying they. Emir is

0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:32.800
<v Speaker 2>both hermaphroditic. I wanted them to appear almost like like

0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:35.759
<v Speaker 2>like a like a grub or something. Yeah, and all

0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:40.040
<v Speaker 2>those features came in there. I should mention this also. Unfortunately,

0:48:40.160 --> 0:48:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Norm because of his own career taking off, was not

0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:46.560
<v Speaker 2>able to color the second book in the series, which

0:48:46.600 --> 0:48:49.440
<v Speaker 2>is Thor, and that is being done by S. J. Miller.

0:48:50.000 --> 0:48:52.120
<v Speaker 3>Well, George, once again, thanks for coming on the show.

0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:55.600
<v Speaker 3>My son and I both really enjoyed Odin. I just

0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:57.680
<v Speaker 3>had it sitting out of my desk after the review

0:48:57.680 --> 0:49:01.320
<v Speaker 3>copy came in for a few days and he grabbed

0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:04.040
<v Speaker 3>it I think, read it in one setting, like right

0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:07.360
<v Speaker 3>there on the floor and gave his approval. He was

0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:10.160
<v Speaker 3>a fan of this one. So grayly enjoyed Odin. I'm

0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:12.240
<v Speaker 3>gonna have to read it again and maybe another time,

0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:14.600
<v Speaker 3>and then we're excited for Thor when that comes out.

0:49:15.400 --> 0:49:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Excellent.

0:49:19.120 --> 0:49:21.680
<v Speaker 3>Thanks again to George O'Connor for chatting with me here.

0:49:21.719 --> 0:49:25.480
<v Speaker 3>The book again is as Guardians Odin out now in

0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:28.560
<v Speaker 3>all fourmats. You can learn more about George and his

0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:33.600
<v Speaker 3>works at George O'Connor books dot com. That's George O'Connor

0:49:33.680 --> 0:49:37.239
<v Speaker 3>co O N N O R Books dot com. And hey,

0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:39.640
<v Speaker 3>if you're not familiar with Stuff to Blow your Mind here.

0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:42.680
<v Speaker 3>While we are primarily a science and culture podcast with

0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:46.560
<v Speaker 3>core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, on Mondays we do

0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:48.719
<v Speaker 3>some listener mail, so frid In we'd love to hear

0:49:48.760 --> 0:49:51.040
<v Speaker 3>from you. On Wednesdays we do a short form episode,

0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:53.920
<v Speaker 3>and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to

0:49:54.000 --> 0:49:56.920
<v Speaker 3>just talk about a weird movie on Weird House Cinema.

0:49:57.600 --> 0:50:00.400
<v Speaker 3>Thanks as always to the excellent JJ Possway for producing

0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:02.319
<v Speaker 3>this show, and if you would like to reach out,

0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:05.200
<v Speaker 3>you could email us at contact at stuff to Blow

0:50:05.239 --> 0:50:14.480
<v Speaker 3>your Mind dot com.

0:50:14.520 --> 0:50:17.440
<v Speaker 2>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

0:50:17.520 --> 0:50:20.319
<v Speaker 2>more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:50:20.480 --> 0:50:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,