1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: From the dark corners of the web, an emerging mindset. 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 2: I'm a loser if also wom we know wouldn't pay 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 2: me either. 4 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 3: A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 3: a deadly tipping point. 6 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: In Cells will be added to the Terrorism Guide. 7 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 4: I see literally zero hope. 8 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: This is in Cells a production of KT Studios and 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts, Season one, Episode ten, Worship at the feet 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: of a coward. 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 3: She wasn't in the wrong place. 12 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 5: She was in very much the right place that night, 13 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 5: doing all the right things, and she deserved better than this. 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 6: If you were a woman and a man in love, 15 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 6: in showing it publicly, it would just anger him to 16 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 6: the point where he would need to toss things at you. 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 5: We're getting in there and they're getting information and seeing 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 5: things that they don't know how to process. 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KT Studios, with Stephanie Leideker, 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: Gabriel Castillo, Connor Powell, and Carolyn Miller. We began this 21 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: series hearing from Colleen Weiss, Veronica Weiss's mother. In this episode, 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: we hear from Jane Weiss, Veronica's aunt, who has dedicated 23 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: her life to activism, Veronica was a nineteen year old 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: college freshman at the University of California, Santa Barbara who 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: was senselessly killed during the Ila Vista shooting spree on 26 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: May twenty third, twenty fourteen. The perpetrator Elliott Roger. His 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: name has come up multiple times, brought up by experts 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: in cells and in relevant news clips. The frequency of 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: the mentions has to do with his place in the 30 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: in cell community. He is the coward at whose feet 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: radicalized men worship. Briefly, here are the details of what 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: happened on the day of the killing spree. This is 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: a news report from news Channel three. 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 4: Twelve Friday in May twenty third, twenty fourteen. It was 35 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 4: a very dark evening. Indeed, this was one of the 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 4: worst crimes that was committed in our County's history. 37 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 7: Sheriff Bill Brown remembers the night Elliott Roger went on 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 7: a mentally disturbed, deadly attack. 39 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 4: A twenty two year old suspect embarked on a violent 40 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 4: rampage throughout Ila Vista. He began by killing his two 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 4: roommates and a visitor. He then got into his vehicle, 42 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 4: a black BMW, and he went basically hunting people in 43 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 4: Isla Vista. 44 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: Here's crime analyst body Movin. 45 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: Elliott Rogers he was a British American mass murderer who 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: is known for killing six people and injuring fourteen others 47 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 2: during the twenty fourteen Isla Vista killings. The murders he. 48 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 6: Committed, his suicide and his manifesto have been cited as 49 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 6: an early influence into the inceell And manuscript subculture. And 50 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 6: his manifesto was one hundred and thirty seven pages. It 51 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 6: was titled My Twisted World, The Story of Elliott Rogers. 52 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 6: He killed his two roommatess, then drove over to the 53 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 6: sorority house and he was going to take his revenge 54 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 6: out on these beautiful sorority girls. Elliott believed that he 55 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 6: was going to purify the world and it's necessary to 56 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 6: remove love and sex from the human existence again. 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: News Channel three twelve. 58 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 7: Two sorority girls were killed and their friend was wounded 59 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 7: while they walked down the street. 60 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 4: Went past the out of this to market, did a 61 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 4: drive by shooting in there at people that were running 62 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 4: for cover, and he ended up killing the young man 63 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 4: who ran into the market. He then proceeded to just 64 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 4: go on this wild rampage all around town, striking people, pedestrians, 65 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 4: people on bicycles. 66 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: We have two black and one win going into north. 67 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 7: Nine calls lit up the dispatcher's screens. Shots were being 68 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 7: fired on several streets, and deputies in the area found 69 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 7: the shooter. 70 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: The deputy's return fire. He was wounded in that exchange 71 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 4: of gunfire. He then drove off, accelerated, then put the 72 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 4: gun to his head committed suicide. 73 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 7: As the weeks of investigative work unfolded, there was a 74 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 7: written manifesto and other signs of years of mental issues 75 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 7: coming out. 76 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 4: He Ed had basically projected all that he was going 77 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 4: to do. He was a very sick individual. 78 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 7: Sheriff Brown spoke with all family members and said it's 79 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 7: hard because you can't make sense out of a senseless situation, 80 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 7: as they remembered Christopher Ross, Michaels, Martinez, Veronica Weiss, Catherine Cooper, Cheng, 81 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 7: Huan Hong, George Chen, and Wihan Wang. 82 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: Information later revealed that leading up to the attacks, he 83 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: had been showing clear signs of instability and escalating rage. 84 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: Here again crime analyst Body Movin. 85 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 6: In fact, prior to him doing this, he would often 86 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 6: attack couples that were, you know, maybe on the beach 87 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 6: holding hands or in their car, maybe making out, and 88 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 6: he would throw coffee at them. If you were a 89 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 6: woman and a man in love and showing it publicly, 90 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 6: it would just anger him to the point where he 91 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 6: would need to toss things at you. He stated women 92 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 6: should not be given any rights and that their wickedness 93 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 6: needed to be contained to avoid the risk of humanity 94 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 6: falling into degeneracy. Elliot said women's refusal to accept him 95 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 6: was a declaration of war, and he hoped his attacks 96 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 6: would reshape humanity. So Elliott is really the grounding point 97 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 6: for insuls. They refer to him as Saint Elliott Roger, 98 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 6: and when they say they're going to attack women, they 99 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 6: say they're going to er her. 100 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: Disturbingly, his actions have been lionized by some segments of 101 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: the insult community, his name now used as a rallying 102 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: cry to push others toward violence. Body continues referencing his 103 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: aforementioned manifesto. 104 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: On page one eighteen. 105 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 6: It says this, it came to a point where I 106 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 6: had to set a date for the day of retribution. 107 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 6: That is what Elliot Roger calls the day that he 108 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 6: went on his spree killing. I originally consider doing it 109 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 6: on the Halloween of twenty thirteen. That's when the entire 110 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 6: town erupts in Rauss's partying. There would literally be thousands 111 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 6: of people crowded together who I could kill with these 112 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 6: and the goal was to kill everyone, to utterly destroy 113 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 6: that wretched town. But then, after seeing footage of previous 114 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 6: Halloween events on YouTube, I saw that just too many 115 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 6: cops walking around it would be too risky, so the 116 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 6: day of retribution would have to be on a normal 117 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 6: party weekend. 118 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: A normal party weekend is exactly what the Friday of 119 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: Memorial Day, May twenty third, twenty fourteen was. We're honored 120 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: to have spoken with Jane Weiss, Veronica Weiss's aunt. We 121 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: asked Jane what people should know about Veronica. 122 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 5: Well, her sincere love for all of her friends and family, 123 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 5: and her wicked sense of humor, always looking for the 124 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 5: humorous side of the things. If her father was getting 125 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 5: a little too allowed in the car, she tell them 126 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 5: it's time to play the quiet game. Always had something 127 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 5: witty to say and could converse with anyone, and I 128 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 5: think that will always stand out and be willing to 129 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 5: take a stand on something that you believe in really 130 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 5: marked her. She was a brilliant student, never let any 131 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 5: boundaries slow her down. She played boys baseball, She ran 132 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 5: track and cross country. She was an amazing water polo player, 133 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 5: and an outstanding mathematician and a very wise young woman. 134 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: Jane describes a memory from a trip Ronica took to 135 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: visit her in Seattle. It was the August before starting 136 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: her freshman year at the University of California, Santa Barbara. 137 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: It was nine months before the rampage. 138 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 5: I took her all over Seattle and we went to 139 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 5: the Fremont Troll, which is a big deal in Seattle. 140 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 5: I would never personally climb it. She climbed up so 141 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 5: she could get what she liked to refer to as 142 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 5: awkward photos. And so we'd go any place and take 143 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 5: just weird pictures for her collection. And when I was teaching, 144 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 5: I taught second grade, she would text me, and once 145 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,119 Speaker 5: she started college and they would always start with how's 146 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 5: the weather, which I've really learned quickly was can I 147 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 5: have some more Starbucks money? 148 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,559 Speaker 3: Please? The tech started with how's the weather? 149 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 5: It was going to end with I really want to 150 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 5: go to Starbucks. You never know what trauma does to 151 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 5: people over time, but it impacted me and that I 152 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 5: was close to retiring and knew very little about guns 153 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 5: or anything along those lines, and it pushed me to 154 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 5: do something in my retirement that I would be proud 155 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 5: of working in gun violence because what happened to her 156 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 5: should never have happened. 157 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: Jane is Veronica's aunt on her father's side. We asked 158 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: Jane to describe how she heard about what happened to Veronica. 159 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 5: It was the Friday night of memory a day and 160 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 5: as a second grade teacher, I was exhausted and knew 161 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 5: that I was going to work on my report cards 162 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 5: all week, and so I'd gone to bed early, so 163 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 5: I did not hear about it that night. And when 164 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 5: I woke up on Saturday morning early, I was watching 165 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 5: things that I had taped, so I didn't have the 166 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 5: television live on. Still hadn't heard about it. At about 167 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 5: seven o'clock, my sister called and she had just gotten 168 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 5: a call from my brother and she just said sit down, 169 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 5: which I was sitting, and told me what happened or 170 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 5: what she knew about what happened. And my immediate thought 171 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 5: is we have to get to California, and we have 172 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 5: to get there now. And within probably an hour, I 173 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 5: started getting texts from friends who had seen things on 174 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 5: the news that I never did see because I got 175 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 5: busy trying to find airline tickets on Memorial Day, and 176 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 5: my sister got busy trying to find hotel rooms, and 177 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 5: we were down in California by three o'clock that afternoon. 178 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: Jane continues recalling those early days and the staggering scope 179 00:09:58,640 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: of what began to unfold. 180 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 5: We didn't know a lot that first day, but on 181 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 5: the Sunday we drove up to Ila Vista and we 182 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 5: met people from the college, the dean and the chancellor, 183 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 5: and that day they were finding out about the other 184 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 5: young men that he had killed in his apartment. And 185 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 5: realized this is going to go pretty big. And I 186 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 5: remember going to the store that night and seeing the 187 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 5: People magazine and it already had that on the cover. 188 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 5: And we learned over the few days that his parents 189 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 5: had known that he was struggling, and that they had 190 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 5: sought a wellness visit about a month before, and they 191 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 5: had known he was probably going down a spiraling behavior. 192 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 5: And we didn't want to blame him because mental health 193 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 5: happens all over the place. Veronica had no knowledge of 194 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 5: him or anything, and trying to understand what was happening too. 195 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 5: Quite a while before they were able to uncover all 196 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 5: of it, but he had been posting videos and manifestos 197 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 5: and all kinds of things that we found out about 198 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 5: over the course of the next week. 199 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: We asked Jane if up until that point she'd ever 200 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: heard the term, and. 201 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 5: Sell, I had never heard it before, and I'm not 202 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 5: really sure if I heard it until I was back 203 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 5: in Seattle. But articles started coming out everywhere, and the 204 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 5: stories of previous encounters with law enforcement had started coming out, 205 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 5: and pieces of his manifesto had been started to be released, 206 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 5: So we were just starting to piece together that, but 207 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 5: knowing that he had attempted to get in the sorority 208 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 5: that Veronica and her sorority sisters were passing because he 209 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 5: wanted to kill all the pretty girls in that sorority 210 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 5: that night and they didn't let him in. The informations 211 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 5: kept coming and has even to this day about that 212 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 5: subculture and it's everywhere. It's the dark inner at chat rooms, 213 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 5: and realizing how the blame of women took hold of 214 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 5: his mind and pushed him down that hole to the 215 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 5: point where it didn't matter who it mattered that it 216 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 5: was a female. And that seems to be the rabbit 217 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 5: hole that so many young men are going down, and 218 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 5: learning that it's part of the subculture of so many 219 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 5: mass shootings and other incidents is just terrifying. 220 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 3: It's always jarring. 221 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 5: But I have sort of an understanding of these young 222 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 5: loaner what do they call lone wolf shooters, that they 223 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 5: hit a pattern over and over again. And when you 224 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 5: hear people talk about, oh, yeah, he was a loner, 225 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 5: he was watching the internet, all of those things, and 226 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 5: it just sets off a little spark in my brain 227 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,239 Speaker 5: that this is going to be another one that somehow 228 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 5: worships at the feat of a coward that killed my 229 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 5: knees over and over again it happened. 230 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 1: M let's stop here for a break. We'll be back 231 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: in a moment. Jane described searching for a way to 232 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: channel her grief. Very shortly after returning from Veronica's memorial, 233 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: Jane found her purpose helping push the Gun Violence Restraining 234 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: Order the gv ro O across the finish line. 235 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 5: When somebody sees a relative or a friend starting to 236 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 5: spiral down and have some of those thoughts, and it's 237 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 5: as much homicide as it is suicide, honestly. 238 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 3: I know. 239 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 5: California went first passing their gvr O, the Gun Violence 240 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 5: Restraining Order and twenty fourteen, and weirdly, we had a 241 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 5: senator in Washington who grew up in Santa Barbara and 242 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 5: knew about the shooting and was very affected by it 243 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 5: and reached out and they, as our state legislature, tried 244 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 5: to pass in Extremist Protection Order in twenty fifteen and 245 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 5: again in twenty sixteen, and when it wouldn't go through 246 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 5: our legislature, we took it to the voters and passed 247 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 5: it as an initiative, which has kind of become a 248 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 5: hallmark across the country. And so being involved in that 249 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 5: has been really important because it gives me a chance 250 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 5: to speak out about these young men going down those 251 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 5: paths and seeing that coming. And we have a fantastic 252 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 5: unit in King County that is all women that goes 253 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 5: in and removes the guns, and I'm so proud to 254 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 5: have been a part of getting that passed in Washington. 255 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: Jane talks about how, despite some changes, violence still happens. 256 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: With Elliott Roger used as a twisted inspiration. She references 257 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: a specific crime that happened shortly before our interview. A 258 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: sixteen year old suspect named Desmond Holly was identified as 259 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: the gunman in the Evergreen High School shooting. He had 260 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: been active on a violent gore site that glorifies previous killers, 261 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: and his most recent TikTok profile photo was of Elliott Roger. 262 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, I've seen spring, gentlemen, I've seen the word heroes 263 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 5: spilled with the capital er in the middle to make 264 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 5: sure that we know it's him. It was in the 265 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 5: news twice this weekend. I saw an article on Friday 266 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 5: about the shooter in Evergreen High School in Denver. Had 267 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 5: a picture on his wall of Veronica shooter. And there 268 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 5: was an article in Mother Jones this morning talking about 269 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 5: the Netflix series Adolescents and that they somewhat left out 270 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 5: that the parents need to be looking at what their 271 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 5: kids are seeing online and being super aware is important 272 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 5: for mom and dad. What do you see? What can 273 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 5: you get to all of that? And I don't know 274 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 5: that that and everybody else's frontal lobe as a parent, 275 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 5: that that's got to be looked at. 276 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: We asked Jane what she wants people to understand about 277 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: how far the damage from these acts of violence spreads 278 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: through families, through communities, and whether schools should be actively 279 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: educating young people about the dangers. 280 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 3: It's a good question. 281 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 5: I wish we could talk more about the Internet and 282 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 5: what kids are seeing and doing on the Internet. We 283 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 5: just had a thirteen year old arrested I think he's 284 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 5: out now, who had a school shooting all planned down 285 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 5: to Minutia, and they were able to intervene. But I 286 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 5: don't know how to help parents more than getting the 287 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 5: word out much more clearly that the Internet isn't a 288 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 5: safe place for kids, and isn't a safe place for 289 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 5: kids who feel the least bit lesser than, or not 290 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 5: as good as, or any of those sorts of things, 291 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 5: because they start looking for places where they're encouraged. We 292 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 5: started teaching online safety right as I was leaving teaching 293 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 5: in twenty seventeen. I was the librarian and we did 294 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 5: internet safety classes. But I don't think we addressed that 295 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 5: particular issue. But I do know that when you get 296 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 5: into junior high in high school, that definitely needs to 297 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 5: be part of the kids' education as well as the 298 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 5: adult's education. I think we can't ignore it any longer. 299 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 5: It's gotten large and kids are having access at so 300 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 5: much younger ages. I just was reading today that there's 301 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 5: so many more juvenile arrests, and I think they like 302 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 5: to pose online with guns and do all those things, 303 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 5: and I just think parents are totally unaware. And if 304 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 5: the schools had an opportunity to pta had an opportunity 305 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 5: to present that without making it scary even though it is, 306 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 5: parents might pay more attention to letting that internet babysit 307 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 5: their children. 308 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: Jane continues speaking about the pervasive impacts of social media 309 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: on developing minds and what actions can be taken. 310 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 5: I'm not positive how you can shut it down, but 311 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 5: kids having to say I'm eighteen is not working. We're 312 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 5: getting in there and they're getting information and seeing things 313 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 5: that they don't know how to process. I mean, it 314 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 5: is that twenty five year old brain that doesn't even 315 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 5: completely finish forming, and we see this twenty two, twenty one. Yeah, 316 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 5: they're a legal age, but they aren't completely formed mentally yet, 317 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 5: and somehow we have to take that into account. I've 318 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 5: been part of the Be Smart program with every town 319 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 5: talking about the risk of teen suicide and understanding that 320 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 5: and modeling that safe storage. It's keeping guns out of 321 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 5: the hands of people who shouldn't have them, be it suicide, 322 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 5: which is close to seventy five percent of the gun 323 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 5: desk in Washington State, and the only group it's ticking 324 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 5: up in is juveniles. People don't realize how that fast decision, 325 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 5: that five second decision, is rarely given a second chance 326 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 5: and storing guns safely. We're working to make our safe 327 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 5: storage law in Washington stronger. 328 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: We asked Jane to fill us in on her wide 329 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: ranging advocacy work. 330 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 5: I had seen in the news that we had a 331 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 5: group in Washington called the Alliance for Gun Responsibility that 332 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 5: was working to pass an initiative for universal background checks 333 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 5: and then an online forum, every Town for Gun Safety 334 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 5: was starting up a huge nationwide campaign to send postcards 335 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 5: to your senators. Not one More was the theme, and 336 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 5: I sent an online postcard, and then I received a 337 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 5: phone call asking if I would like to deliver postcards 338 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 5: to my senators, and I did on July first, and 339 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 5: somebody connected me up with another survivor who was the 340 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 5: citizen sponsor of our initiative, and so I worked that 341 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 5: summer with her doing house parties, raising awareness, telling Veronica's 342 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 5: story and hopes of getting our initiative passed. And that 343 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 5: one thing led to another, and that summer I was 344 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 5: invited to Californi with my brother because they were debating 345 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 5: the gun Violence Restraining Order in Sacramento, and this fellow 346 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 5: stood up and said, this kid speaking of Elliott was 347 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 5: not a criminal. This is a no brainer. I moved 348 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 5: to pass the gun Violence Restraining Order in California, which 349 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 5: gave me the momentum to feel like, Okay, we can 350 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 5: do something that's huge. 351 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: Jane is now active in multiple advocacy groups, Mom's Demand Action, 352 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: the Everytown Survivor Network, and the Alliance for Gun Responsibility. 353 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: She's traveled to support gun safety legislation and knows that 354 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: nothing shifts lawmakers more than the power of lived experience. 355 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 5: I was invited to New York to train with every 356 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 5: Town as a survivor fellow, and that connected me to 357 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 5: a lot of survivors of shootings like Sandy Hook and 358 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 5: the Aurora, Colorado and Las Vegas hadn't happened yet, but 359 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 5: later met some of those people and we kind of 360 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 5: have formed a network of almost family all across the 361 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 5: United States. Through that, I've connected with a lot of 362 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 5: survivors in Washington and several of them have accompanied me 363 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 5: back there, and a lot of times you hear from 364 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 5: the senators and representatives we need more of these stories. 365 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 5: They help us tell the stories when we're bringing out 366 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 5: initiatives or bills. There are better things to do than 367 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 5: to surround yourself in grief. It's not going to bring 368 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 5: the child back. And working to help other communities, help 369 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 5: other families stay safe, is a really important thing. And 370 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 5: I do see a lot of survivors that are ready 371 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 5: speak up, speak out, and that wasn't happening much before 372 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 5: twenty fourteen, and those voices definitely matter. The legislators tell 373 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 5: us over and over that matters because those are real 374 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 5: people behind the statistics. 375 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: We asked Jane, what you would say to a young 376 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: man struggling with the same things many sales describe and 377 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: knowing what can happen when that pain turns violent. 378 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 5: To take a beat and to see what else you 379 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 5: have in your life that's positive. It could be one class, 380 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 5: it could be a book, it could. 381 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 3: Be a person. 382 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 5: It doesn't have to be an online situation. And know 383 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 5: that there are people who care about you people who 384 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 5: want the best for you, and getting away from that, 385 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 5: shutting some of that down. I heard the governor and 386 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 5: Utah talk about that that the social media is an addiction, 387 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 5: just like a drug or alcohol or something else along 388 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 5: those lines. To take a beat because it is something 389 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 5: that is preventable. You don't want to be responsible for 390 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 5: other people's lives. 391 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: We also asked what Jane thought Veronica would say to 392 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: the man who killed her and five other innocent people. 393 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 5: You didn't need to do that. There were people that 394 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 5: would listen to that talk to you, that would understand you, 395 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 5: that would support you. If you just looked for those people. 396 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,239 Speaker 5: Hatred isn't going to do anything ex have deep you up, 397 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 5: and she would have been one of those people that 398 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 5: reach out to him and be nice to him. There 399 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 5: are lots of those people out there. But if you're 400 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 5: looking only for the bad, guess what you're gonna only 401 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 5: find bad. You get good at what you practice. 402 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in 403 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: a moment. We asked what Jane hoped people take away 404 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: from Veronica's story and what she hopes will be achieved 405 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: through sharing Veronica's legacy. 406 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 5: Well, I hope people understand and that a she was 407 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 5: completely innocent, She wasn't in the wrong place, she was 408 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 5: in the very much the right place that night, doing 409 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 5: all the right things as a nineteen year old college 410 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 5: freshman at nine o'clock would be doing, and that she. 411 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 3: Deserved better than this. 412 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,239 Speaker 5: And I see people when they hear about her and 413 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 5: see her picture that they realize this could be their child. 414 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 5: Because bullets they don't judge, they just kill. And I 415 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 5: see that, I see tears. I sometimes see my own tears. 416 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 5: But I do believe people are moved to realize that 417 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 5: she was just a normal nineteen year old college girl 418 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 5: doing what a normal nineteen year old college girl would 419 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 5: be doing. I always say when I speak that in 420 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 5: Veronica's honor, I will always work to make communities safer 421 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 5: and families more involved in gun violence prevention. It's the guns, 422 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 5: and I totally believe it's the guns. If you can't 423 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 5: throw bullets at somebody and hurt them, stabbing is much 424 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 5: more int meant, and we're seeing more of that all 425 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 5: over the place. 426 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 3: But I do. 427 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 5: Believe that the guns and their access and people not 428 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 5: recognizing the lethality of some of these guns most of 429 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 5: the people I talked to, I was like, we've never 430 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 5: touched a gun or something like that, But everybody says 431 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 5: that the survivors hold the moral ground because they've experienced 432 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 5: it firsthand. I really just believe that knowledge is power, 433 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 5: and advocating for what works is powerful. And I know 434 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 5: Colleen would say Veronica would hate if we were all 435 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 5: moping around feeling sorry for ourselves. She had much more 436 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 5: humor than that. She wanted us to live life and 437 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 5: do everything we possibly could while we're here, and her 438 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 5: legacy will be the love and the humor she. 439 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 3: Had for everyone. She was always looking for the underdog. 440 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: Finally, we asked Jane to share how she keeps Veronica's 441 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: memory alive. 442 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 3: Well. 443 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 5: Every year on her birthday, I do a pay it 444 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 5: forward to Starbucks. One of the places we've visited the 445 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 5: summer before she started college was the Starbucks in Pipe 446 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 5: Place Market at Seattle, the original one. 447 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 3: I have a few pictures over there. I've done to pay. 448 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 5: It forward in New York, in New Orleans, any place 449 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 5: I am on her birthday, I have a picture of her, 450 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 5: and I think about her when I'm tutoring a high 451 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 5: school student right now, getting her to read some good books, 452 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 5: and I'll say, hey, my niece loved this book. Why 453 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 5: don't you read this book. So she's alive and a 454 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 5: part of me all the time. 455 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow 456 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at KT Underscore Studios. In Cells is 457 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: produced by Stephanie Leideger, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. 458 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: Additional producing by Connor Powell and Caroline Miller, editing by 459 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: Jeff Tooi, music by vanikor Studios. In Cells is a 460 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: production of KAT Studios and iHeart Podcasts. For more podcasts 461 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 462 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.