1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Do you lay awake at night like I do, not 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: able to sleep? Whether you're worried about your children, your finances, 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: your job, It could be anything, but couldn't have anything 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: to do with your mattress. He looks. Sleep has built 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: a sleep quiz that takes just two minutes to finish, 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: and they use those answers to match your body type 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: and sleep preferences to make the perfect mattress. Because there's 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: nobody on this earth like you, So why would you 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: buy a generic mattress built for everybody else? Whether you're 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: a side sleeper or a hot sleeper, or do you 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: like a plush a firm bed with Hell looks, there's 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: no more guessing or confusion. Go to helix, sleep dot 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: com slash Nancy, take their quiz. They match you to 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: a mattress and you will get the best sleep of 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: your life. For couples, he looks, even splits the mattress 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: down the middle, giving you individual support the way you 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: want it. They have a ten the year warranty and 18 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: you get to try it out for one nights risk 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: free right now, he looks, offering up to a hundred 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: twenty five dollars off all mattress orders, get up to 21 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five dollars off it. He'll ex 22 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: Sleep dot com slash Nancy. That's he'll look sleep dot 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: com slash Nancy. A hundred and twenty five dollars off 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: your mattress, he'll ex sleep dot com slash Nancy. Wow, 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: this is making me sleepy. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 26 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: It's horrible. I don't I don't know how to described. 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: It's horrible for the whole family. That's how a family 28 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: friend described the deaths of eight family members back in 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: April of two thousand sixteen. It's a mystery that has 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: captivated the state and has apparently puzzled authorities. Now a 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: little more is being revealed about the deaths of the 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: members of the Rodent family. We knew the family had 33 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: been shot to death, but now we are learning graphic details. 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: You're hearing from our friends at ABC. That was Tom 35 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: Bosco with ABC six. How did an entire family? And 36 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: and I say this with great pride that I also 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: went from the middle of nowhere, a family of eight 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: murdered in the middle of nowhere. And I say that 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: with great love and wonderment and incredulity because in an 40 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: area like Pike County. You don't expect a crime to 41 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: take place uh in the middle of Pike County, Ohio, 42 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: but especially a mass murder and execution style form. A 43 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: family of eight all shot dead, most of them as 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: they lay sleeping in their bed, except for one, the senior, 45 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: who had defensive wounds, showing that he tried to fight back. 46 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. Joining me right now, Karen Start, 47 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us from Manhattan. Also Ashley Wilcot, 48 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: judge lawyer, founder of child Crime watch dot com. And yes, 49 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: there are three surviving children to think about. Ashley Joseph 50 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator 51 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and 52 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: renowned medical examiner Dr Michelle Dupre out of South Carolina. 53 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: But joining me right now. Crime Online dot Com investigative 54 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: reporter Nicole Pardon. Nicole, I really don't know where to start, 55 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: but let's start where every homicide investigation starts. We'll start 56 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: with the timeline and specifically the murders themselves. What can 57 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: you tell me about the crime scene. Here's what we know. 58 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: Nancy it's the largest homicide investigation in Ohio history. Sometime 59 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: in the early morning hours of April, all eight family 60 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: members were killed in that rural area of Pike County three. 61 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: Right a minute, Nicole, Nicole, I hate to interrupt you, 62 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: but I want to clarify something, because every single fact counts. 63 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: You say the early morning hours for timeline purposes, can 64 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: we narrow that down at all? We're being told sometime 65 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: between the hours of two a m. And six AM. Okay, 66 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: that's important. That's important to me because that means that 67 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: someone was intending to do this. And it's over three 68 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: different homes. These eight family members, they weren't all sleeping 69 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: and like the Walton's, the Walton family and one big 70 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: family home. Uh, this was a big farm covering multiple properties, 71 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: and there were different homes across the property for the 72 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: various family members to live in. They were adults. So 73 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: Nicole parton sometime after to a m. Right when everybody 74 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: is really getting into the deep r E M sleep. 75 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: What happens? We know that a killer or killers entered 76 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: into these three homes and viciously murdered these family members. 77 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: Also traveling about three miles away to a camper home 78 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: where an additional family member lives, killing them as well. 79 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: You know this person didn't stop with just one home, 80 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: going to three separate properties to murder in the middle 81 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: of the night. Let's start with so many investigations. Start 82 00:05:39,760 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: with the nine one one call um, Okay, given me 83 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: his seat here, man, man going on? There's black all 84 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: over the house. Okay, my brother in lawson says, he 85 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: looks like I think the hell I love them, okaycause 86 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: all parts. Maybe can you coming with county? That's then 87 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: it is my down, it's my county. Okay, okay, how 88 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: do you do to get out of the house? Thank you? 89 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: Drive over there? Nice idea. Okay, what's your name, Mike? 90 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: What's your brother in law's name? What's your brother in 91 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: law's name? Dam Yeah, what's your name? Chris Burnsing, Garry 92 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: Ray Rank and Gary Broad First, I's in here, looks 93 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: like the dad think you're both dead. I think you bad? Okay, 94 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: anybody else in the house. I don't know us. Okay, 95 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: the door was lawful. We got here, but I hope 96 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: we see herr leting on the bloord. I need let 97 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: out of the house and now okay to stay out 98 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: of the house. Don't let anybody going there playing. Yeah, 99 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: all right, we don't Deputies on the way, Okay, I 100 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: say you. You're hearing a brutal nine on one call 101 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: by a sister, a sister in law Chris Rodin trying 102 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: to describe to the operator of the scene of blood 103 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: spatter and bodies, both men dead. She and other adult 104 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: family relatives have been ruled out to Nicole. Parton Crime 105 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: Story is investigative reporter Dr. Michelle Duprie, Joe Scott, Morgan, 106 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, and Karen start joining me from Manhattan to you. 107 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, the way the bodies were found, the fact 108 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: that the adults were killed, three little children survived. One 109 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: was lying between the two adult parents. What does that 110 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: say that they would come in? And another thing I 111 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: noticed is that these gunshots didn't wake anybody up. So 112 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: did the purp or purps use silencers, which suggests a 113 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: professional hit, But leaving the child asleep between the two 114 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: dead parents in the same bed, Ashley, what does that mean? 115 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, this is so hard to imagine that 116 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: they would come in and commit this heinous, heinous crime. 117 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,599 Speaker 1: Why would they leave that child sleeping. I don't know. 118 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: Maybe because the child was asleep didn't wake up, they 119 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: felt like it wasn't a threat. But the other thing 120 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: is that this has been described as a very methodical crime, 121 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: and so I believe that in this particular case, it 122 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: was someone that had the motive to say, we're gonna 123 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: do it in a methodical way. These are the people 124 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: were killing. These are the people were going to kill 125 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: in this particular order, and that's how they executed this 126 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: family the way they did. Straight back to Joseph Scott Morgan, 127 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet way in Hey, 128 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, Uh, we keep using plural uh they 129 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. I gotta tell you. You mentioned 130 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: three locations. I have to imagine at least I'm imagining 131 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: that there was more than one perpetrator potentially involved in this, 132 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: that this would be coordinated. In this world that we 133 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: live in, where we've got all these abilities to communicate 134 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: with one another, I don't see how you could pull 135 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: this off without having multiple shooters uh involved in this event. 136 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: And also to you, Dr Michelle Dupree, medical examiner renowned 137 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: pathologies joining us from South Carolina. The way the people 138 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: were murdered, an entire family wiped out. What does that mean, Santia? 139 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: That means that they the reason that these people were 140 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: killed is because they knew something or potentially could say something. 141 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: The children that didn't recognize these people or didn't know 142 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: anything they were, they were spared. But the adults, they 143 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: all must have known something or seen something that could 144 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: have told on someone. There's so many clues left behind. 145 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this nime on one call. Yeah, 146 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: I need amy amount to post. Okay, uh, it's all 147 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: that stuff. It's going to move. I just found just sound. 148 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: My cousins was against don't wound, so okay, No, I 149 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: don't know what his address is. You don't You don't 150 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: have a boss, you don't have a Okay, I'll be 151 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: staying out my very way going. What do you think? Yeah, okay, 152 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: how does the house? I'm I'm out of the house 153 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: right now. I just went in hard night and checked 154 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: and he had a game shop wind reonder, when would 155 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: you want people to know about your daughter? Well, she'd 156 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: give you a short we're back. She will work hard 157 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: and she took oh old people in nursing home. The 158 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: people's houses, I mean if you want to eaything with 159 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: my daughter, go to pebbles after anyone how close the 160 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: family was. But I mean, you know, but you know 161 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: that a lot of things have been covered up, Biggar 162 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: and Pat Kelly Leondard. What's been covered up? What are 163 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: you figured? No, No, I can't say that. Yeah, that 164 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: was how you found out the news about your daughter. Well, 165 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: my daughter feed them animals out there every morning, and 166 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: Babba Joe the one made the nine one one call 167 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: and she got to keep the place. She went in. 168 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: My grand son and his girlfriend. Dad went down and 169 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: thought my brother as a sudden law and his cup dad, 170 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 1: and then she come out and got me and I 171 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: went out there and my boy went to my daughter's 172 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: house and they felt them and my daughter, her daughter 173 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: and her son whose home was her? Whose home was 174 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,599 Speaker 1: your daughter in? She and her home? She is in 175 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: her home. They was They just booked, They just bought it. 176 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: All the victims in this case reported to be asleep 177 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: when they were gunned down dead, except for Christopher Senior, 178 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: who is understood to have been awake. There were bullets 179 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: fired through his bedroom door, and he has defensive wounds 180 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: on his arm in hand to Nicole Parton, Crime online 181 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Nicole Parton, I understand that this 182 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: place had multiple security cameras, yet they were all dismounted 183 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: and taken by the killers when cops got there E. M. 184 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: T's got there, all the security cameras were gone. That's 185 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: what we're being told, Nancy. No security, no surveillance, nothing 186 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: that they can look at to see who or how 187 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: many people came in, when they came in, why they 188 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: came in. But we are being told that even the 189 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: mobile homes, the trailer holmes themselves were moved into warehouses 190 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: so that the investigation could continue and they could comb 191 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: through every ounce of evidence that was available on I mean, now, 192 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: Dr Michelle Dupre, Dr Dupree, what can we learn from 193 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: the positioning of the body and the trajectory paths of 194 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: the bullets, Stancy, we can tell where those people were 195 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: when they were shot. The interesting thing is is you 196 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: mentioned an apparent defensive wound, so that does indicate that 197 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: this person did try to fight back to some extent. 198 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: The others apparently don't show that they very well may 199 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: have been asleep, which begs the question why didn't someone 200 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: else and the and the residence here the gun shot on. 201 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: You know, I want to go down to Kieran start 202 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us. I noticed that, for instance, 203 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: with Christopher Rodent Senior um he was shot twice in 204 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: the head, a third time in the face. And the 205 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: autopsy report, which, by the way, he's breaking now. The 206 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: autopsy reports have just been released. The autopsy report says 207 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: a muzzle stain was left on his head. That means 208 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: that the shot was fired with the gun pressed up 209 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: against his head. He wasn't the only one, So these 210 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: were murders of an entire Family's been two years, it's 211 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: still unsolved. A thousand tips, five hundred interviews processed, over 212 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: a hundred pieces of evidence. Still we don't know who 213 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: did it. What does the point blank shootings mean to 214 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: you as a psychologist. To me, it means that it's 215 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: a personal vendetta that whatever was going on there, each person, 216 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: from what I could tell, was shot in the face, 217 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: one was shot in the eye, somebody in the cheek. 218 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: So you have to be very close intimate to do that, 219 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: and that's pure anger and revenge. I don't believe that 220 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: these were strangers. These are people who are out to 221 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: get this family, wanted to make a point, took away 222 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: the security cameras. Obviously this property knew where they were 223 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: and really we're seeking revenge and vengein too just got 224 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: Morgan death sing investigator. What does that mean when the 225 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: autops he says, quote muzzle staining, Well, it means that 226 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: the that the weapon, the tip of the muzzle was 227 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: in close proximity to to the skin. And I think 228 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: that this is is a salient point, Nancy. The reason 229 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: is is that Chris Sr. Was shot, Uh was shot 230 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: multiple times. He had defensive injuries. However, However, the other 231 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: person that was in the trailer with him UH was Gary. 232 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: Gary is the one that actually had uh the muzzle 233 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: imprint on the side of his head. And I really wonder, Nancy, 234 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: if Gary might not have been the target for this. 235 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: It's very difficult. It's very difficult to it's I'm not 236 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: gonna say that's rare, but it's it's difficult to have 237 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: someone were the pressed. And I don't know if this 238 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 1: is pressed, but it's kind of implying that it might 239 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: be a press gunshot one to the side of the head. 240 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: If they shot this guy in as he was awake, Uh, 241 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: that is the cousin where they had attempting to extract 242 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: information from him. They've killed the older fellow in the trailer, 243 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: and then they come after this guy. Uh. And considering 244 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: that we do not know what exact position they were in, UM, 245 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: I'd like to know more information. Just got Morgen. We 246 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: know that the homes were actually moved, much of the homes, 247 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: the rooms were moved to gather evidence. How much evidence 248 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: was lost by doing that? Uh, you know, I think 249 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: that things can rattle around a bit. You know, we've 250 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: done this in the past, where we have cases inside 251 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: of vehicles, where we have people shot in cars will 252 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: essentially flatbed car into the crime lab. However, I think 253 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: there's much more to be gained, much more to be 254 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: gained by removing these uh, these trailers to a secured 255 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: location where you can methodically take your tom. The big 256 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: tie back here, Nancy, the big tie back for me 257 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: is hopefully keeping as many people away from these things 258 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: and looking for trace elements such as touch DNA in 259 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: all of these cases. I want to go back to 260 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: Nicole parton crimal Line investigative reporter, Nicole, tell me what 261 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: else you've learned about the crime saints. It's just hard 262 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: for me to believe an entire family and three separate 263 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: properties can be broken in on, all of them murdered, 264 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: except the tiny children and the people the killers walk 265 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: aways scot free. Well, we know that the crime scene 266 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: was gruesome. We know that there were multiple gun shot 267 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: wounds to each victim. Christopher Roden Senior nine gun shot wounds. 268 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: We know that these surviving children five days though, six 269 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: months old and four years old, two of them sleeping 270 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: between their parents covered in blood. Parents deceased, but the 271 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: children survived, with a four year old sleeping on the sofa, 272 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: yet he was not wounded or injured. We know that 273 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: it was calculated, it was vicious, and it was just 274 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: downright evil. We were talking about an entire family, the 275 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: road in family wiped out in a rural area in 276 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: Pike County, and then interestingly, their next door neighbors pick 277 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: up and move to Alaska right after being questioned. But 278 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. You came in like thieves 279 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: in the night and took eight lives, some being children, 280 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: the most horrific way I've ever seen in my twenty 281 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: plus years. We are getting closer. We will find you 282 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: but the family and the victims well have justice. One day. 283 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: We are coming. The countdown is on big announcement on Monday, 284 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: and we're all very excited about it. I can't say 285 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: much yet, but I will say if you're a parent, 286 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: you will not want to miss this. We are taking 287 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: a big step forward in our mission to fight crime. 288 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: If you want to be one of the first to 289 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: find out the news, go to Nancy Grace dot com now. 290 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: Sign up for a free email newsletter. Repeat free email 291 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: newsletter at Nancy Grace dot com. You will get this 292 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: special announcement delivered straight into your mailbox. We're giving you 293 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: something special in that email too. A said thank you 294 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: for supporting us at Crime Stories and Crime online dot com. 295 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: Go to Nancy Grace dot com and sign up. Doesn't 296 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: cost you a thing. Believe you me, and you will 297 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: be the first to hear of our now spent Nancy 298 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: Grace dot com. Please go there now. I'll be looking 299 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: forward to speaking to you. This was a pre plan 300 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: execution of eight individuals. It was a sophisticated operation and 301 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: those who carried it out were trying to do everything 302 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: that they could do to hinder the investigation and their prosecution. 303 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: And I just state that because, as the sheriff is indicated, 304 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: we would anticipate that this could be a lengthy investigation. 305 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: This is not your case where someone's got mad at 306 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: somebody else they shot him. There's a witness to witnesses. 307 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: It is very, very, very different type case you're hearing 308 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: from Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine describing a horrific mass murder, 309 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: entire family wiped out. But there is a fly in 310 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: the ointment, Nicole Parton. This family had quite the business 311 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: going on, didn't they. They did, that's correct. Um. They 312 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: were busy in the lumber business, busy building, doing things 313 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: like that. And it's been told to us that they 314 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: had ties to the Wagner family that have now moved off. 315 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: What do you mean by ties? We're being told that 316 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, the father, husband of the fourth four family 317 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: members that moved away to Alaska, was somewhat a business 318 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: partner to Mr Roden Senr. And that just before this 319 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: crime took place, they had had a huge falling out. 320 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: To what extent we don't know, but there had been 321 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: some sort of disagreement within their business plans together. Bottom line, 322 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: Jesse Scott Morgan, author of Blood Beneath My Feet death Investigator. 323 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: They ran a plot farm, a big pot farm. There's really, 324 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, no nice way to say it. Joe Scott 325 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: oh uh, and Hell followed with them, the scope of 326 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: this thing is mind blowing. Nancy to be able to 327 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: recreate this thing is going to be um, it's it's 328 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: going to be very difficult. Uh. And here here's what 329 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: I believe. I I truly believe that this is highly coordinated. 330 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: I would not even be surprised if people were not 331 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: brought in from the outside in order to facilitate something 332 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: like this. Karen and talked just a moment ago about 333 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: how personal these cases are. Also, there is an intimacy 334 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: involved here. You had alluded to the fact that all 335 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: that all of the surveillance equipment has been removed. And 336 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: what's curious about this is that this would require an 337 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: intimate knowledge of the property itself, the going on, how everything, 338 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: the day to day operations. And so I think there 339 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: will be tie backs to two local people obviously, and 340 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: h yeah, if they're in the drug trade, lord only 341 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: knows how far the tentacles of the same extent. Nancy, 342 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: this is actually this is like a hit right, all 343 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: of the criteria, all the elements, all of the pieces. 344 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: It's so methodical and all of those specific steps. It's 345 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: like someone there was aware of the surveillance in the 346 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: house and the property, but all the other items are 347 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: classic for a hit on this family. I think there's 348 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: absolutely a hit. And what I don't understand is why 349 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: now two years have passed and nobody seems to have 350 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: a clue. I want to talk for a moment about 351 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: the Wagner family. These are the neighbors. The next real 352 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: neighbors is very rural area that took off and moved 353 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: to Alaska, to the point where local law enforcement in 354 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: Ohio there in Pike County sent out a notice, if 355 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: anybody knows where the wagoners are, please tell us we 356 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: want to talk to them. A neighbor up in Alaska 357 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: had stopped in on his brand new neighbors to say hello. 358 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: He realized they were the wagoners, and he called the 359 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: police when he found out about it. So I'm concerned 360 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: as to why they are being questioned. To Karen Start, 361 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: New York psychologist, it could be any mixture of things 362 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: when neighbors don't get along, but the fact that they 363 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: just got up and left and moved and left everything behind. 364 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: And I mean, come on, you moved from the Lower 365 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: forty eight to Alaska. I mean that clearly says I 366 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: don't want to be found. For whatever reason it might be. 367 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: Maybe they were afraid that whoever killed the road and 368 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: family would come after them too, or they were a 369 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: part of what happened. And it's just so hard to 370 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: believe that they would move all the way to Alaska 371 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: and not think that that would look extremely suspicious. And 372 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: from what I'm hearing, they feel like they're being hounded 373 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: as a result of this. They were in a business together, 374 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: and it was a business where you could attract a 375 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: lot of nefarious characters, and because of the nature of 376 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: the crime stancing, because it's so close up and personal 377 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: and revengeful, you really wonder how much they were involved 378 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: in this and what should be done to get them 379 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: to be investigated when they live in Alaska. You know. 380 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: Another issue is that we believe some of the gunshot 381 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: wounds were inflicted post mortem. Dr Michelle Dupre, what does 382 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: that mean? Fancy? Again, that just points back to how 383 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: personal this was. They were making a statement they didn't 384 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: just want to kill these the families, they wanted to 385 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: make a statement to anyone who found the bodies as well. 386 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: That sends a message. You know, another issue too, Ashley Wilcott. 387 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: You know they had a pitbull and another dog or 388 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: two that didn't raise a paw during all of this. 389 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: What does that mean? I don't know what does that mean? 390 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: Did she know something? Was there some reason that that 391 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: she didn't say anything, didn't didn't raise the ball. It's 392 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: it's I don't know. It doesn't necessarily make sense. But again, 393 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: I think in terms of the aspect of this crime 394 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: that makes it sound like a hit. They had a 395 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: very clear plan as to who they were going to kill. 396 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: The patriarch was killed first by all accounts, and they 397 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: were going to do it in a specific order. And 398 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: I think they'd already predetermined who they were going to 399 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: kill them who they weren't unless someone resisted or caused 400 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: an issue or could identify. Well, it's horrific is these 401 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: murders were of the Rodent family. Professional assassins usually don't 402 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: draw the line at children. If they think there's a 403 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: way they're going to be identified, they'll go ahead and 404 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: kill the children too. These three children were allowed to live. UM. 405 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: At first, the the general speculation wise the cartel was 406 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: somehow involved the Mexican drug cartel and these murders because 407 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: who would have thought it, But apparently El Chapo out 408 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: of Mexico had strong connections to the Ohio drug trade. 409 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: M M. I'm not I'm not convinced this is a 410 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: cartel move. What I do know, Joseph Scott Morgan, is 411 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,239 Speaker 1: that as someone intimately familiar with not one, not two, 412 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: but three separate properties, rural properties, you gotta know how 413 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: to get there, how to find the locations, how to 414 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: get into the homes, how to remove the surveillance cameras, 415 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: how to kill these family members without waking the others up, 416 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: to know their habits, to know who lived where. I 417 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: find that very telling, Joe Scott. But what Yeah, it 418 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: has a real intimacy to it, doesn't it, Nancy, that 419 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: you would have this much familiarity, uh, to know these 420 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: little details. This is another curious thing. Uh. You know, 421 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: this county is located just north of the southernmost border 422 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: of Ohio. It's in rural Appalachia. You know, weed pot 423 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: up in that area has become the new Moonshine there 424 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: are a t F agents that go through these areas 425 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: and state law enforcement agents that go through these areas, 426 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: such as like down in the Daniel Boone National Forest 427 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: that's just below this, where they have to look out 428 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: for booby traps, all kinds of things that are planted 429 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: on these pot fields that are down there. This is 430 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: high dollar business. These people are highly they are very violent. 431 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: There's a ton of money tied up into this, and 432 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of it has to do with 433 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: this is a way. You know, we're talking about how 434 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: rural it is. This is a way that some of 435 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: these people may make money up there. This is their 436 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: livelihood and people take it very seriously. And boy, they 437 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: really brought the wrath of God with them. They make 438 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: money and a lot of it. But it seems to 439 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: me whoever did this absolutely knows the family. And those 440 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: were words also declared by Leonard Manley, who lost his 441 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: daughter Dana and two grandchildren, Hannah nineteen, Christopher sixteen. The 442 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: victims for ages sixteen to forty four. Eight people dead 443 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: on an old dirt road and Pike and that's Pike County, Ohio. 444 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: Two dogs were there that would chew you up, but 445 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: they didn't raise a paw. Also, mercy was shown to 446 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: the babies and the dogs, that indicates this was not 447 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: a professional Yet, how can an entire family be wiped 448 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: out and still no arrests. Inside the same trailer, Gary 449 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: Roden was shot three times in the head and face, 450 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: including one shot that left a muzzle stamp on his temple, 451 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: indicating a point blank shot. Next do her, a couple 452 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: shot while in their bed with their week old baby 453 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: between them another child on the floor. Frankie Roden was 454 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: shot three times in the head and face. His girlfriend, 455 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly, was shot five times in the head and face. 456 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: One of the shots was through her eye. Both baby 457 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: and the young child left unharmed. Just down the road, 458 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: three more killed Dana Roden, Chris Sr's ex wife. She 459 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: was shot five times across the forehead and in the temple, 460 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: then up through the chin. Chris Roden Jr. He Was 461 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: sixteen shot four times, including two through the top of 462 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: his head, and his sister Hannah was shot twice in 463 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: the head and in a trailer a few miles away. 464 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: Kenneth Roden he was shot once through the right eye. 465 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: Since the entire road and family was asleep, at the 466 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: time of their execution. It seems to suggest hatred varying 467 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: amounts of hatred for each family member, as opposed to 468 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: trying to subdue members of the family that were most 469 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: likely to fight back, which is what you would expect 470 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: at a mass killing. This takes a lot of thinking. 471 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: To Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator and author, you would 472 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: have expected for some of the family members to be 473 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: fighting back and to be shot during the struggle. That 474 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: did not happen. They were all in their beds, and 475 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: these properties was a huge, sprawling hundreds of acres of farmland. 476 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: These three properties were a couple of miles apart each, 477 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: so someone had to know to go. You couldn't just 478 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: look across the field and see the other home. They 479 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: were miles apart, so someone had to have been surveilling 480 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: or know the area intimately to know how to get 481 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: to each of the three homes. Joe Scott More, Yeah, 482 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, and Nancy, you and I both grew 483 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: up in kind of rural areas, and the old saying 484 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: you can't see your hand in front of your face 485 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: is so dark outside. You would have to have very specific, 486 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: very specific knowledge of the area, or sophisticated equipment like 487 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: night vision goggles, that sort of thing, in order to 488 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: move around into pitch black darkness. Remember what we said 489 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: when we talked about how this apparently took place. This 490 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: apparently took place between two am and six am. If 491 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: I'm if I'm getting my time's right there, So we 492 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: got a four hour window. You've got the cover of 493 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: darkness that this is all occurring. This took planning, they're 494 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: thinking about doing it and then moving about. And then 495 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: this brings us to the big issue. And i gotta 496 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: tell you, I'm not a big I'm not a big 497 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: person when it comes to things like muzzle suppressors and 498 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: all this sort of thing. However, I'm scratching my head. 499 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: How did nobody react to this? They were all many 500 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: of them, not all, but many of them were found 501 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: in their bed as if they had been sleeping. And 502 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm baffled by this. We can't ignore the 503 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: marijuana trade, Okay. People think it's innocent, it's harmless. It's not. 504 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: It is not. There in that area of Ohio is 505 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: extremely economically distressed. This is where the road and murders 506 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: took place. Many people in that region have relied on 507 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: growing marijuana for years to support themselves. Um, it is 508 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: illegal there, but maybe that's why marijuana is such a huge, 509 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: huge cash crop. Drugs are so prevalent there. At the highway, 510 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: signs give numbers to report impaired impaired drivers, not drunk drivers. 511 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: And the day of this massacre, all along Main Street 512 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: in Piketon, that's the county seat of Pike County. There 513 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: were trucks and vendors. It was the annual Dogwood Festival, 514 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: t shirts, candy, popcorn, corn dogs, elephant ears, selling things 515 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: out of boxes, socks with marijuana leaf printed on them. 516 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: So that's the the atmosphere in which the murders took place. Now, 517 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: when I talk about a dogwood festival and the vendors 518 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: in the streets, there's something behind that. El Chapo, El Chapo, 519 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: the drug lord and his Cinelo, a cartel had infiltrated 520 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: the area. It wasn't just your rural pop grower anymore, 521 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: but the cartel was there. Nicole Parton joining me Crime 522 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: Online investigative reporter Nicole. Many people, including myself, I believe 523 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: this may have been a mass murderer. May to look 524 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: as if the cartel had done it. That's true, Nancy. 525 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 1: And it's also interesting to point out, going back to 526 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: the Wagner family that the son Jake w There had 527 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: been a long time boyfriend to Hannah Road who one 528 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: of those who were murdered in the home there. They 529 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: actually shared a daughter together and had just finalized in 530 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: agreement for a custody battle that had been ensuing over 531 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: their child. So there was a custody battle going on 532 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: for the baby. That is part Road, part Wagner just 533 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: finalized the custody battle. The Road and family saying that 534 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: it was tumultuous, the Wagner family saying that, oh no, 535 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: it was an agreement that was settled peacefully. So we 536 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: don't know all of the details, but we do know 537 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 1: that the son, Jake Wagner, one of those who fled 538 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: to Alaska, was actually a longtime boyfriend to Hannah Roden's 539 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: who was murdered. Interesting, now you gotta wonder why two 540 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: years have passed and nobody has been able to crack 541 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,959 Speaker 1: this case. Think about it. This is about eighty miles 542 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: south of Columbus. People are afraid. You see eight people 543 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: asleep in their beds, mass murdered. It looks like it 544 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: may have been professionally done. There are no fingerprints, there's 545 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: no security camera footage because killers had the wherewithal to 546 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: remove all the surveillance video. No witnesses have come forward 547 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: if there is one. Uh, the neighbors took off to Alaska. 548 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: So what do you expect to happen to? Dr Michelle Dupre, 549 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: South Carolina medical examiner and author of a field guide 550 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: to homicide investigation. So how often the murders remain unsolved 551 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: because people are afraid to come forward? And Nancy being 552 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: afraid to come forward is is very common, but typically 553 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: there are things that we do find. We find physical evidence. 554 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: This case is so interesting because there isn't any. And 555 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: another interesting part about this is when we look at 556 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: this crime scene, it was well organized. That means that 557 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: the perpetrator themselves was well organized. It was planned out, 558 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: they were comfortable in their surroundings. You discussed how they 559 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: knew what the security cameras were. This leaves a lot 560 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: of thought in my mind anyway, but there was somebody 561 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: very close to this family. They knew the ins and 562 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: outs of this. It's it's not a wonder that it's 563 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: not foved yet. Take a listen to our friend at 564 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: w LWT needs five Brian hamering. Eight people murdered inside 565 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: four Pike County homes. The case was so shocking it 566 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: made national headlines tonight. The mystery of who's responsible grows 567 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: even deeper with new details about the brutal nature of 568 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: the murderers. The Corners preliminary report shows Christopher Roden Senior 569 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: was shot nine times, including five times in the phase, 570 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: three in the torso, and once in the arm. He 571 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: appears to be the only one of eight with defensive wounds, 572 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: indicating he may have been a week when the attack 573 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: happened and was most likely the first one killed. If 574 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: you have information related to these brutal murders leaving three 575 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: children orphaned, please called Southern Ohio Crime Stoppers seven four 576 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: zero seven seven three tips seven four zero seven seven 577 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: three eight four seven seven Anonymous tips are being taken 578 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,359 Speaker 1: at the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation eight five five 579 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: two two four six four four six eight five five 580 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: two two four six four four six. There's a nearly 581 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollar Crimes Stoppers reward. Nancy Grace crime story 582 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friends,