1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,518 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of My 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:15,758 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Welcome to the latest edition of the Book 3 00:00:15,758 --> 00:00:19,678 Speaker 1: of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci, three time National 4 00:00:19,758 --> 00:00:23,638 Speaker 1: Sportswriter of the Year, and of course Joe Madden, three 5 00:00:23,718 --> 00:00:27,358 Speaker 1: time Major League Manager of the Year. Of course you 6 00:00:27,398 --> 00:00:30,558 Speaker 1: can read our book. It's out now, The Book of Joe, 7 00:00:31,078 --> 00:00:34,438 Speaker 1: by it wherever books are sold. Are you doing, Joe, 8 00:00:34,598 --> 00:00:37,278 Speaker 1: Good morning, sir. You had a late night, huh yeah, 9 00:00:37,318 --> 00:00:40,558 Speaker 1: But you know what Dodgers Padres. I don't know if 10 00:00:40,558 --> 00:00:43,598 Speaker 1: I've ever seen a five three slugfest before, but it 11 00:00:43,798 --> 00:00:47,558 Speaker 1: was filled with home runs at great defensive players. And 12 00:00:47,638 --> 00:00:49,918 Speaker 1: there was a play in that game, Joe that I 13 00:00:49,918 --> 00:00:54,158 Speaker 1: immediately thought about you and Don Zimmer The Zim Special 14 00:00:54,718 --> 00:00:58,518 Speaker 1: first and third for the Padres. Tough matchup with grad 15 00:00:58,758 --> 00:01:01,518 Speaker 1: role against Trent Grisham, who handles a bat really well, 16 00:01:02,078 --> 00:01:05,878 Speaker 1: drops a bunt and telling you that big guy grad 17 00:01:05,958 --> 00:01:08,638 Speaker 1: Errol made an amazing play to get the run out 18 00:01:08,678 --> 00:01:10,798 Speaker 1: of the plate. But I gotta ask you, because we 19 00:01:10,798 --> 00:01:13,318 Speaker 1: went in detail about this in the book, The Zim Special. 20 00:01:13,358 --> 00:01:15,638 Speaker 1: Ideally you like that bunch to the first base side, 21 00:01:15,678 --> 00:01:17,998 Speaker 1: the first baseman's holding him on third baseman is and 22 00:01:18,118 --> 00:01:20,558 Speaker 1: a little closer. Do you think he should have bunted 23 00:01:20,638 --> 00:01:22,598 Speaker 1: that ball to first base or was it just a 24 00:01:22,598 --> 00:01:25,758 Speaker 1: great play by grad role both. I mean, but um, 25 00:01:25,918 --> 00:01:28,518 Speaker 1: with lefties a lot of times, and maybe against velocity 26 00:01:28,598 --> 00:01:30,438 Speaker 1: like that, it's hard from the bunch of ball to 27 00:01:30,558 --> 00:01:34,318 Speaker 1: the first base side. Historically, I've very rarely run that 28 00:01:34,358 --> 00:01:36,838 Speaker 1: play with the left handed hitter for that particular reason. 29 00:01:37,078 --> 00:01:39,838 Speaker 1: It's it just seems um, you know, the drag bun 30 00:01:39,918 --> 00:01:41,958 Speaker 1: to bring it with them down there for some guys 31 00:01:42,078 --> 00:01:45,518 Speaker 1: is more problematic than just to push it down the 32 00:01:45,518 --> 00:01:47,918 Speaker 1: third baseline. First of all, Grado made a play that 33 00:01:47,958 --> 00:01:50,918 Speaker 1: nobody else could make, so that otherwise Will would have 34 00:01:50,958 --> 00:01:53,318 Speaker 1: been safe. The part about that play, I tried to 35 00:01:53,358 --> 00:01:55,718 Speaker 1: put that in because of the reason I just gave you. 36 00:01:55,758 --> 00:01:57,838 Speaker 1: I'd left these that couldn't butt to the other side. 37 00:01:58,398 --> 00:02:00,598 Speaker 1: So the point was to have the runner trail the 38 00:02:00,638 --> 00:02:04,078 Speaker 1: third baseman bunt the ball to third base. Third baseman 39 00:02:04,158 --> 00:02:07,038 Speaker 1: comes in, and what you're trying to do then is 40 00:02:07,078 --> 00:02:08,878 Speaker 1: wait for the third baseman to release the ball the 41 00:02:08,918 --> 00:02:11,198 Speaker 1: first space, and if he chooses not to, you stay 42 00:02:11,238 --> 00:02:13,398 Speaker 1: put and you get an extra base runner. So that 43 00:02:13,518 --> 00:02:14,998 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how we try to get it, but 44 00:02:15,078 --> 00:02:18,158 Speaker 1: again never had the opportunity. I worked on then in 45 00:02:18,158 --> 00:02:21,438 Speaker 1: spring training with a bunch of left handed bunners. They 46 00:02:21,438 --> 00:02:23,718 Speaker 1: see if we could formulate that play, but it's a 47 00:02:23,758 --> 00:02:26,398 Speaker 1: really hard one to do. You saw with the third 48 00:02:26,398 --> 00:02:28,638 Speaker 1: baseman once he was a good position too. But the 49 00:02:28,638 --> 00:02:32,798 Speaker 1: play grat Role made was purely spectacular. Final point, you're right, 50 00:02:32,878 --> 00:02:35,038 Speaker 1: I like it. In that pie down the first baseline, 51 00:02:35,078 --> 00:02:37,958 Speaker 1: I saw Freeman was in decent position too, so he 52 00:02:37,998 --> 00:02:39,878 Speaker 1: had it in mind that he might do that. Yeah, 53 00:02:39,918 --> 00:02:42,238 Speaker 1: it was just amazing play by grad Role. I'm not 54 00:02:42,278 --> 00:02:44,158 Speaker 1: sure if the cameras picked this up, but I was 55 00:02:44,198 --> 00:02:46,398 Speaker 1: in that third base camera well by the Dodger dugout 56 00:02:46,438 --> 00:02:48,398 Speaker 1: and grad Role after he made that play, gave one 57 00:02:48,398 --> 00:02:52,038 Speaker 1: of those Michael Jordan's shrugs to his pitching coach Mark Pryor, like, hey, 58 00:02:52,158 --> 00:02:55,278 Speaker 1: ain't nothing to it. It was an amazing play. Yeah, 59 00:02:55,318 --> 00:02:57,518 Speaker 1: Like like he practiced that, Like he practiced that. You 60 00:02:57,518 --> 00:02:59,918 Speaker 1: know that is like, that's an athletic play. That is 61 00:02:59,958 --> 00:03:02,758 Speaker 1: a great athlete reacting in a moment um. You do 62 00:03:02,838 --> 00:03:05,838 Speaker 1: your p fps, you do different things, you cover home, 63 00:03:06,038 --> 00:03:08,078 Speaker 1: you make flips to the catcher at the plate, but 64 00:03:08,198 --> 00:03:10,798 Speaker 1: that play was uniquely great. Yeah, and I thought Bob 65 00:03:10,838 --> 00:03:14,158 Speaker 1: Melvin managed a great game for the Padres. I mean, 66 00:03:14,198 --> 00:03:17,718 Speaker 1: he's stuck with you, Darvish when you know Darvish stuff 67 00:03:17,838 --> 00:03:20,398 Speaker 1: was good, but that was a gritty performance. He wasn't 68 00:03:20,398 --> 00:03:24,078 Speaker 1: blowing people away consistently. But Bob Melvin was not quick 69 00:03:24,118 --> 00:03:26,878 Speaker 1: with the trigger. And then he goes to Josh Hayter, 70 00:03:26,998 --> 00:03:29,398 Speaker 1: who had not gotten more than three outs for a 71 00:03:29,518 --> 00:03:33,958 Speaker 1: save in two years. And obviously, Joe, he can't do 72 00:03:33,998 --> 00:03:36,998 Speaker 1: that unless he preps Hater for that possibility that it's 73 00:03:36,998 --> 00:03:40,758 Speaker 1: coming up, even before the series begins. And I worried 74 00:03:40,758 --> 00:03:43,318 Speaker 1: a little bit about Hater doing the whole up down things, 75 00:03:43,318 --> 00:03:46,478 Speaker 1: sitting down between innings, but he looked fine and finished 76 00:03:46,478 --> 00:03:49,358 Speaker 1: the game. How about the game that Melvin managed. Yeah, 77 00:03:49,558 --> 00:03:52,838 Speaker 1: first of all, you Darvish, Um I was watching. I 78 00:03:52,878 --> 00:03:55,038 Speaker 1: didn't fall asleep yet, so I'm watching that. And the 79 00:03:55,118 --> 00:03:57,998 Speaker 1: thing that got to me was used ability to slow 80 00:03:57,998 --> 00:04:00,398 Speaker 1: it down. He didn't have his best stuff. Things weren't 81 00:04:00,478 --> 00:04:02,718 Speaker 1: quite working in that one inning. They kept coming back 82 00:04:02,798 --> 00:04:06,398 Speaker 1: adding the tying runs, but he did not cave in. 83 00:04:06,518 --> 00:04:09,238 Speaker 1: And I love that about his performance last night. That 84 00:04:09,478 --> 00:04:13,038 Speaker 1: just indicates a proves Kenny Revisita talked about this all 85 00:04:13,038 --> 00:04:14,598 Speaker 1: the time. You mean to tell me you have to 86 00:04:14,598 --> 00:04:17,318 Speaker 1: be you have to be apt, feeling absolutely perfect in 87 00:04:17,398 --> 00:04:20,198 Speaker 1: order to compete and win. So I think last night 88 00:04:20,278 --> 00:04:24,158 Speaker 1: I thought, what Darbish showed is is increased ability, Uh, 89 00:04:24,158 --> 00:04:26,038 Speaker 1: the mental part of the game. He's able to slow 90 00:04:26,038 --> 00:04:29,158 Speaker 1: it down, understand what's going on, and continue to pitch 91 00:04:29,518 --> 00:04:32,758 Speaker 1: in his brilliant way. Hater, on the other hand, percent right, 92 00:04:32,758 --> 00:04:35,478 Speaker 1: you have to talk to your guy in advance. Now listen, 93 00:04:35,518 --> 00:04:38,558 Speaker 1: we're gonna consider this. Are you good for four outs tonight? 94 00:04:38,758 --> 00:04:40,678 Speaker 1: He might even ask me he was good for five ounces? 95 00:04:40,678 --> 00:04:43,638 Speaker 1: And I have no idea, but that way, the reliever, 96 00:04:43,918 --> 00:04:45,878 Speaker 1: a closure in this situation who is not used to 97 00:04:45,918 --> 00:04:49,758 Speaker 1: doing it, is able to prepare himself properly mentally and physically. 98 00:04:49,838 --> 00:04:52,718 Speaker 1: He's probably was up stretching sooner, maybe throwing with the 99 00:04:52,718 --> 00:04:55,358 Speaker 1: outfielders sooner or whatever. But it's good to give a 100 00:04:55,358 --> 00:04:57,278 Speaker 1: guy like that it heads up and he was absolutely 101 00:04:57,318 --> 00:04:59,998 Speaker 1: prepped for it. I love watching Darbish pitch. I mean, 102 00:05:00,038 --> 00:05:02,758 Speaker 1: he can spend the baseball better, uh and in more 103 00:05:02,798 --> 00:05:04,998 Speaker 1: ways than anybody I ever seen. And I want to 104 00:05:05,038 --> 00:05:07,278 Speaker 1: give you one sequence. It actually was a home run 105 00:05:07,398 --> 00:05:09,478 Speaker 1: hit by Max Munsey. And I'll tell you why it 106 00:05:09,558 --> 00:05:12,918 Speaker 1: was amazing. Here was the pitch sequence. It started at 107 00:05:12,918 --> 00:05:16,638 Speaker 1: eighty three, and then the next pitch was twenty was 108 00:05:16,758 --> 00:05:18,998 Speaker 1: ninety two miles per hour, so he goes up nine 109 00:05:19,038 --> 00:05:21,398 Speaker 1: miles per hour for the next pitch. The next pitch 110 00:05:21,838 --> 00:05:24,558 Speaker 1: was sixty nine. It was probably strike three, by the way, 111 00:05:24,718 --> 00:05:27,358 Speaker 1: so that's a twenty three mile an hour difference. Comes 112 00:05:27,398 --> 00:05:29,838 Speaker 1: back the next pitch at seventy nine, so it's up ten. 113 00:05:30,438 --> 00:05:33,638 Speaker 1: Next pitch is ninety one, so it's up twelve, and 114 00:05:33,678 --> 00:05:36,598 Speaker 1: the last pitch was seventy two, so that's down nineteen. 115 00:05:37,198 --> 00:05:39,238 Speaker 1: I mean, it's the only about I've seen where you 116 00:05:39,278 --> 00:05:43,638 Speaker 1: saw pitches in the sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties. It 117 00:05:43,678 --> 00:05:46,598 Speaker 1: sounded like an am oldies station. It sounded like the 118 00:05:46,638 --> 00:05:49,678 Speaker 1: game plan was to change speeds, right with darbish though, 119 00:05:49,718 --> 00:05:52,278 Speaker 1: there's very few guys that command a breaking ball, slow 120 00:05:52,358 --> 00:05:54,918 Speaker 1: breaking ball as well as he can. And again I 121 00:05:54,998 --> 00:05:58,038 Speaker 1: just go down the freeway there. Show does the same thing. 122 00:05:58,118 --> 00:06:00,918 Speaker 1: Show Hey, these two guys, and it might be part 123 00:06:00,918 --> 00:06:03,038 Speaker 1: of the culture where they came from, are really able 124 00:06:03,078 --> 00:06:06,238 Speaker 1: to command that slow breaking ball Back in the day, 125 00:06:06,278 --> 00:06:08,958 Speaker 1: Tom Candiotti was really good at that, and throw my 126 00:06:09,038 --> 00:06:12,998 Speaker 1: Tom Candiotti reference out there, but it's not easy to 127 00:06:13,598 --> 00:06:16,598 Speaker 1: throw that pitch with that much rotation, in that kind 128 00:06:16,598 --> 00:06:19,438 Speaker 1: of command, with that kind of confidence. So I'm I 129 00:06:19,838 --> 00:06:22,598 Speaker 1: don't know this for a fact, but I would bet 130 00:06:22,638 --> 00:06:25,558 Speaker 1: going into that game, use game plan was to not 131 00:06:25,958 --> 00:06:28,918 Speaker 1: throw the same pitch twice in a sense to uh 132 00:06:29,238 --> 00:06:32,238 Speaker 1: to Max and and and that would benefit him. And 133 00:06:32,278 --> 00:06:34,198 Speaker 1: I didn't even realize. I didn't see that moment, but 134 00:06:34,358 --> 00:06:36,238 Speaker 1: he had struck him up and the home right ensued. 135 00:06:36,278 --> 00:06:38,358 Speaker 1: But it sounds like that was the game plan. Yeah, 136 00:06:38,398 --> 00:06:41,598 Speaker 1: A quick story about you. You know, he obviously played 137 00:06:41,638 --> 00:06:44,118 Speaker 1: with Clayton Kershaw, his opponent game to the n L 138 00:06:44,238 --> 00:06:48,078 Speaker 1: DSH for three months in the seventeen season with the Dodgers, 139 00:06:48,438 --> 00:06:51,118 Speaker 1: And while he was there, you asked Clayton Kershaw, why 140 00:06:51,238 --> 00:06:55,158 Speaker 1: is your command so darn good? And Kershaw told him 141 00:06:55,158 --> 00:06:58,358 Speaker 1: about his dry bullpen sessions. You will watch Kershaw get 142 00:06:58,398 --> 00:07:02,238 Speaker 1: up twice in his days between starts and go through 143 00:07:02,318 --> 00:07:06,078 Speaker 1: his delivery without throwing in the baseball and I don't 144 00:07:06,118 --> 00:07:08,958 Speaker 1: think I've seen anyone perfect their delivery over and over 145 00:07:09,078 --> 00:07:11,438 Speaker 1: and repeat it the way that Kershaw does, and Darvis 146 00:07:11,518 --> 00:07:14,958 Speaker 1: started incorporating that, and he started imagining pitching to the 147 00:07:14,998 --> 00:07:18,238 Speaker 1: lineups he's going to face the day before his start. Again, 148 00:07:18,318 --> 00:07:20,558 Speaker 1: not throwing the baseball so there's not wear and tear 149 00:07:20,598 --> 00:07:23,438 Speaker 1: on the arm, but visualizing what he was doing, what 150 00:07:23,518 --> 00:07:25,718 Speaker 1: he wanted to do, and just lock in that delivery. 151 00:07:26,038 --> 00:07:30,758 Speaker 1: Guys always learning interesting because I mean I again past reference. 152 00:07:30,758 --> 00:07:33,158 Speaker 1: Warren Spawned was the minor league pitching coach for the 153 00:07:33,198 --> 00:07:36,318 Speaker 1: Angels when I began, and Spawne was pretty good. Spawney 154 00:07:36,438 --> 00:07:38,758 Speaker 1: wanted our guys to pitch and then the next day 155 00:07:39,278 --> 00:07:41,278 Speaker 1: I wanted them to throw lightly, take a day off 156 00:07:41,278 --> 00:07:44,158 Speaker 1: and then throw to batting practice, and they actually throw 157 00:07:44,238 --> 00:07:48,318 Speaker 1: five minutes the day before they pitched again, nothing real taxing, 158 00:07:48,358 --> 00:07:51,078 Speaker 1: but it was all about command, and Spawnee had as 159 00:07:51,078 --> 00:07:53,838 Speaker 1: good at command as anybody. I think sometimes we protect 160 00:07:53,838 --> 00:07:56,598 Speaker 1: a little bit too much and prevent guys from throwing. Again, 161 00:07:56,638 --> 00:07:59,078 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be all out, it's just got 162 00:07:59,078 --> 00:08:02,558 Speaker 1: to be a dab and uh Howie Gershberg. Famous pitching 163 00:08:02,598 --> 00:08:04,798 Speaker 1: coaches do the same thing with our guys coming up. 164 00:08:05,118 --> 00:08:07,278 Speaker 1: So there's nothing wrong with throwing, it just has to 165 00:08:07,318 --> 00:08:10,358 Speaker 1: be controlled. And the replication of the throwing mechanics, the 166 00:08:10,438 --> 00:08:13,358 Speaker 1: motion the field I think is really important. There we 167 00:08:13,398 --> 00:08:16,238 Speaker 1: talked about Josh had closing a game. No surprise there 168 00:08:16,958 --> 00:08:21,718 Speaker 1: with Seattle At Houston, Scott Service brought in Robbie Ray, 169 00:08:22,038 --> 00:08:24,758 Speaker 1: one of his starting pitchers, to close out a game, 170 00:08:24,838 --> 00:08:27,358 Speaker 1: and of course that's when you're don Alvarez walked it off. 171 00:08:27,918 --> 00:08:30,758 Speaker 1: Great moment, but please people stop, It's not the greatest 172 00:08:30,758 --> 00:08:33,078 Speaker 1: home run of all time in the postseason history. I 173 00:08:33,158 --> 00:08:34,798 Speaker 1: know you can break it down and come up with 174 00:08:34,918 --> 00:08:37,998 Speaker 1: win probability at it. People. It's game one of a 175 00:08:38,078 --> 00:08:41,638 Speaker 1: division series. It's not Kirk Gibson in the World Series. 176 00:08:42,078 --> 00:08:43,518 Speaker 1: I just had to get that out of the way. 177 00:08:44,158 --> 00:08:47,278 Speaker 1: But what do you think about bringing in a starting 178 00:08:47,358 --> 00:08:50,198 Speaker 1: pitcher to close the game. Well, first of all, I 179 00:08:50,198 --> 00:08:52,598 Speaker 1: have to understand that was an organizational decision. That wasn't 180 00:08:52,638 --> 00:08:54,918 Speaker 1: just Scott thinking about it in the moment. This guy, 181 00:08:55,038 --> 00:08:57,838 Speaker 1: Robbie raises starter, so that's going to require a longer 182 00:08:57,838 --> 00:09:00,438 Speaker 1: time warming up, and that's what he did. He he 183 00:09:00,478 --> 00:09:03,438 Speaker 1: was looking forward. Um, Scott was to the point where 184 00:09:03,478 --> 00:09:06,278 Speaker 1: if Alvarest came up in this moment, I'm going to 185 00:09:06,358 --> 00:09:09,238 Speaker 1: bring in Ray. So that was a group decision will 186 00:09:09,278 --> 00:09:11,758 Speaker 1: in advance of the moment. Uh. The thing about that 187 00:09:11,878 --> 00:09:14,078 Speaker 1: a guy like Ray, he has not done that oftener. 188 00:09:14,398 --> 00:09:16,438 Speaker 1: I guess maybe four or five times I had read 189 00:09:16,558 --> 00:09:19,038 Speaker 1: when you come into the game as a reliever, it's hot, 190 00:09:19,158 --> 00:09:21,318 Speaker 1: It's very hot in that situation, couldn't have been hotter, 191 00:09:21,878 --> 00:09:23,838 Speaker 1: and he's not used to that. And I think I'm 192 00:09:23,838 --> 00:09:26,638 Speaker 1: pretty sure he threw two fastballs if I'm if I'm correct, 193 00:09:26,678 --> 00:09:29,558 Speaker 1: in that moment, whereas I really was expecting at least 194 00:09:29,558 --> 00:09:31,598 Speaker 1: a first pitch break a ball, and if not, definitely 195 00:09:31,638 --> 00:09:34,118 Speaker 1: a second one where you're really not just trying to 196 00:09:34,158 --> 00:09:36,518 Speaker 1: give into the hitter. So part of it is just, 197 00:09:36,878 --> 00:09:39,398 Speaker 1: you know, experience wise, from Raise a side of things, 198 00:09:39,438 --> 00:09:42,118 Speaker 1: he was just going out there as a starting pitcher 199 00:09:42,158 --> 00:09:44,918 Speaker 1: would not an easy task to do. It really is, 200 00:09:44,958 --> 00:09:47,758 Speaker 1: And I mean on paper it sounds great. I understand 201 00:09:47,838 --> 00:09:50,958 Speaker 1: the method. I actually did it with David Price. Although 202 00:09:51,038 --> 00:09:53,798 Speaker 1: David had not been an established starter, we had prepped 203 00:09:53,838 --> 00:09:56,158 Speaker 1: him well in advance of those moments with the Raise 204 00:09:56,198 --> 00:09:59,998 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. So again it's understand everybody 205 00:10:00,158 --> 00:10:03,078 Speaker 1: thought about that and considered it in advance. On paper, 206 00:10:03,118 --> 00:10:06,478 Speaker 1: it looks great, does It's a difficult moment for Robbie Ray, 207 00:10:06,558 --> 00:10:09,958 Speaker 1: so don't discount that either. And furthermore, Alvarez, there's no 208 00:10:10,038 --> 00:10:12,638 Speaker 1: break with the left handed picture against him, there's zero break. 209 00:10:12,958 --> 00:10:15,438 Speaker 1: This guy hits both sides. And actually I learned that 210 00:10:15,598 --> 00:10:17,958 Speaker 1: very quickly. Don't think you're gonna get over on And 211 00:10:18,038 --> 00:10:21,078 Speaker 1: by bringing in a lefty specialist versus him, he hangs 212 00:10:21,118 --> 00:10:23,078 Speaker 1: in there so well. And the bull goes very far 213 00:10:23,398 --> 00:10:28,238 Speaker 1: against lefties. Two And speaking of hot hitters, when we 214 00:10:28,318 --> 00:10:30,438 Speaker 1: come back to the Book of Joe, I want to 215 00:10:30,478 --> 00:10:32,638 Speaker 1: ask the man who has walked a hitter with the 216 00:10:32,638 --> 00:10:35,878 Speaker 1: bases loaded, not once, but twice, how do you pitch 217 00:10:35,918 --> 00:10:44,558 Speaker 1: to Aaron Judge stick around, Welcome back to the Book 218 00:10:44,558 --> 00:10:47,278 Speaker 1: of Joe podcast. Joe mad and I have referenced that 219 00:10:47,398 --> 00:10:51,158 Speaker 1: you twice walked hitters with the bases loaded, including one 220 00:10:51,518 --> 00:10:54,718 Speaker 1: this year Corey Seager. What was up with that? Well, 221 00:10:54,758 --> 00:10:57,438 Speaker 1: the cigare walk had nothing to do with anything except 222 00:10:57,558 --> 00:10:59,278 Speaker 1: us trying to motivate the group, us trying to get 223 00:10:59,318 --> 00:11:01,118 Speaker 1: them to um, We're kind of a little bit of 224 00:11:01,118 --> 00:11:03,838 Speaker 1: a Dulgium moment at that point, So it wasn't strategy. 225 00:11:03,918 --> 00:11:06,798 Speaker 1: It necessarily not necessarily No, I mean we did not. 226 00:11:06,918 --> 00:11:08,878 Speaker 1: I did not want Secret to beat us, obviously, and 227 00:11:08,958 --> 00:11:10,758 Speaker 1: I thought that grand slam there would have ended the 228 00:11:10,758 --> 00:11:13,358 Speaker 1: game mentally for us, So that was part of it. 229 00:11:13,398 --> 00:11:15,958 Speaker 1: But if you had been in a dugout at that point, 230 00:11:15,998 --> 00:11:18,078 Speaker 1: would lead up to it. Even we talked about in 231 00:11:18,078 --> 00:11:21,838 Speaker 1: the pregame meeting regarding not permitting Seger to beat us. 232 00:11:21,878 --> 00:11:24,998 Speaker 1: All of it conspired, and Austin Warren was pitching. I 233 00:11:25,038 --> 00:11:26,638 Speaker 1: went out there and I asked him if he was 234 00:11:26,718 --> 00:11:28,878 Speaker 1: up for something a little bit strange right here, and 235 00:11:28,918 --> 00:11:31,198 Speaker 1: he said what he got and he started smirking when 236 00:11:31,238 --> 00:11:33,638 Speaker 1: I told him so. The hold in field was in there. 237 00:11:33,718 --> 00:11:37,078 Speaker 1: And again from the outside looking in from the baseball perspective, 238 00:11:37,198 --> 00:11:39,958 Speaker 1: you think I did that strategically just to walk him, 239 00:11:40,198 --> 00:11:42,358 Speaker 1: which I did, but it was more to wake up 240 00:11:42,358 --> 00:11:44,678 Speaker 1: the group and have them approached the game more fearlessly 241 00:11:44,638 --> 00:11:47,278 Speaker 1: and not worry about making a mistake, not worried about 242 00:11:47,278 --> 00:11:50,998 Speaker 1: what somebody might say afterwards. Weirdly, I mean, just I 243 00:11:51,038 --> 00:11:52,918 Speaker 1: think those things in those moments, So that's why I 244 00:11:52,918 --> 00:11:55,958 Speaker 1: did it. And again they ended up scoring three runs 245 00:11:55,998 --> 00:11:57,918 Speaker 1: out of it. I think one of them could have 246 00:11:57,918 --> 00:11:59,638 Speaker 1: been prevented. The mind to come out with two and 247 00:11:59,678 --> 00:12:03,278 Speaker 1: not three. But point taken was that, Yeah, let's not 248 00:12:03,318 --> 00:12:06,038 Speaker 1: be afraid. We came back, and the guys really played 249 00:12:06,078 --> 00:12:08,758 Speaker 1: well and hard after that. So that was the moment there. 250 00:12:08,798 --> 00:12:11,158 Speaker 1: The other one with Josh Hamilt was primarily I don't 251 00:12:11,158 --> 00:12:13,438 Speaker 1: want to pitch to him. He was swinging about that good. 252 00:12:13,518 --> 00:12:16,558 Speaker 1: That old Texas Ballpark is a wind tunnel in the 253 00:12:16,678 --> 00:12:19,078 Speaker 1: right central and I didn't like it, even though Grant 254 00:12:19,078 --> 00:12:21,718 Speaker 1: balt four was better against lefties than right ees and 255 00:12:21,758 --> 00:12:26,438 Speaker 1: brought in Danny to face Marlon Birds. So two different situations, 256 00:12:26,438 --> 00:12:29,678 Speaker 1: two different mindsets. Uh, you know, results being the winds. 257 00:12:29,758 --> 00:12:31,838 Speaker 1: But those are the kind of things you can't just 258 00:12:31,878 --> 00:12:34,038 Speaker 1: think xs and ohs all the time, and it's hard 259 00:12:34,038 --> 00:12:36,278 Speaker 1: to explain that to people unless you've done this before. 260 00:12:36,838 --> 00:12:39,758 Speaker 1: So weirdly, I think of those things in those moments, 261 00:12:39,758 --> 00:12:42,758 Speaker 1: and that's that's what transpired and would cause me to 262 00:12:42,798 --> 00:12:45,758 Speaker 1: go out there and ask Austin if you felt good 263 00:12:45,798 --> 00:12:48,438 Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, I like what you said about Seeger 264 00:12:48,558 --> 00:12:51,038 Speaker 1: before the game, where you say we're not going to 265 00:12:51,158 --> 00:12:54,078 Speaker 1: let this guy beat us. Some guys are just that hot. 266 00:12:54,278 --> 00:12:57,078 Speaker 1: You need to express that and make it clear. I 267 00:12:57,118 --> 00:13:00,438 Speaker 1: would imagine that's the game plan right now with Aaron Judge, 268 00:13:00,798 --> 00:13:04,238 Speaker 1: although watching Game one in the a l DS, Evelyn 269 00:13:04,318 --> 00:13:07,958 Speaker 1: and their right handed pitchers did attack Aaron Judge a bit. 270 00:13:07,958 --> 00:13:10,318 Speaker 1: I mean he saw twenty pitches, but nine of them 271 00:13:10,518 --> 00:13:14,558 Speaker 1: were in the strike zone, including seven fastballs he found 272 00:13:14,598 --> 00:13:18,558 Speaker 1: off a bunch of those fastballs in the zone. So before, 273 00:13:18,758 --> 00:13:22,118 Speaker 1: especially a postseason series, Joe, what would kind of be 274 00:13:22,158 --> 00:13:25,038 Speaker 1: your message with someone like an Aaron Judge if you're 275 00:13:25,038 --> 00:13:26,838 Speaker 1: trying to keep him in the ballpark. Well, a big 276 00:13:26,838 --> 00:13:28,918 Speaker 1: part of that too is who's hitting behind him. I mean, 277 00:13:28,958 --> 00:13:30,558 Speaker 1: Anthony hit a home run the other day, and that's 278 00:13:30,558 --> 00:13:32,718 Speaker 1: going to be really important when you're trying to make 279 00:13:32,758 --> 00:13:37,078 Speaker 1: those determinations. And yes, Judge would be more impactful possibly 280 00:13:37,118 --> 00:13:40,038 Speaker 1: than Anthony will be. But if the guy behind him 281 00:13:40,238 --> 00:13:43,318 Speaker 1: is formidable, then you're a little bit more careful not 282 00:13:43,358 --> 00:13:46,878 Speaker 1: pitching to Judge. Um talked about when we did Bryce 283 00:13:46,918 --> 00:13:50,918 Speaker 1: Harper years ago and Chicago. I walked him so many 284 00:13:50,918 --> 00:13:53,638 Speaker 1: times in his series primarily because if who was hitting 285 00:13:53,638 --> 00:13:56,118 Speaker 1: behind him, zim Erhman was not hot at that time, 286 00:13:56,158 --> 00:13:58,678 Speaker 1: so let's go to the next guy. So that has 287 00:13:58,718 --> 00:14:01,158 Speaker 1: something to do with it, I also believe, and you 288 00:14:01,198 --> 00:14:03,438 Speaker 1: probably could do the deep dive on this, but I 289 00:14:03,478 --> 00:14:05,798 Speaker 1: don't have information in front of me. But what is 290 00:14:05,878 --> 00:14:08,558 Speaker 1: Judge not getting to right now? And it sounds like 291 00:14:08,598 --> 00:14:11,558 Speaker 1: they prefer going fastball over breaking ball, the threat of 292 00:14:11,558 --> 00:14:14,358 Speaker 1: a breaking ball strike. It's you could say, somebody is 293 00:14:14,358 --> 00:14:16,118 Speaker 1: not a very good breaking ball hitter, but they're a 294 00:14:16,118 --> 00:14:19,118 Speaker 1: great strike breaking ball hitter. So the command of your 295 00:14:19,118 --> 00:14:21,598 Speaker 1: picture plays into this. Are you able to have it 296 00:14:21,678 --> 00:14:24,318 Speaker 1: pitched start out as a ball become a strike which 297 00:14:24,398 --> 00:14:26,798 Speaker 1: can be impactful in a negative way, or is this 298 00:14:26,838 --> 00:14:28,638 Speaker 1: guy command good enough that the pitch is going to 299 00:14:28,678 --> 00:14:30,998 Speaker 1: start out as I love strike ball, breaking ball in 300 00:14:31,038 --> 00:14:34,278 Speaker 1: that situation, the hard slider, the curveball in the dirt, whatever. 301 00:14:34,598 --> 00:14:36,678 Speaker 1: So these are the things they're talking about, and they 302 00:14:36,678 --> 00:14:39,398 Speaker 1: have to make that determination, and they know who and 303 00:14:39,558 --> 00:14:41,638 Speaker 1: what their pictures are capable of. So that would be 304 00:14:41,678 --> 00:14:44,998 Speaker 1: part of the pregame discussion regarding how to attack Judge 305 00:14:45,198 --> 00:14:48,198 Speaker 1: and who's sitting behind him, and if there's a lefty available, 306 00:14:48,238 --> 00:14:50,158 Speaker 1: like say Anthony later in the game, and they could 307 00:14:50,438 --> 00:14:52,918 Speaker 1: possibly watch Judge with one of their better lefty relievers 308 00:14:52,918 --> 00:14:55,558 Speaker 1: and you come into the game, that's an issue also. Yeah, 309 00:14:55,558 --> 00:14:57,718 Speaker 1: and by the way, you're right about Aaron Judge. I mean, 310 00:14:57,758 --> 00:15:00,878 Speaker 1: he was one of the best sluggers against breaking pitches 311 00:15:00,958 --> 00:15:03,198 Speaker 1: this year, and he doesn't go outside the zone much, 312 00:15:03,238 --> 00:15:06,718 Speaker 1: so it is more mostly damage on strike breaking balls. 313 00:15:06,758 --> 00:15:09,758 Speaker 1: But I'll tell you he can crush his fastballs as well. 314 00:15:09,878 --> 00:15:13,718 Speaker 1: He's got one tiny, tiny hole and that's the fastball 315 00:15:13,838 --> 00:15:16,678 Speaker 1: up and away that quadrants just in. The strike's on 316 00:15:16,838 --> 00:15:19,638 Speaker 1: top corner um. But you know, if you miss just 317 00:15:19,678 --> 00:15:22,038 Speaker 1: by a little bit, he can hurt you a lot. 318 00:15:22,438 --> 00:15:26,198 Speaker 1: So when you game plan for these postseason series, Joe, 319 00:15:26,918 --> 00:15:30,038 Speaker 1: how much information do you want to give your players? 320 00:15:30,118 --> 00:15:33,398 Speaker 1: Because I'm looking at these postseason series and three out 321 00:15:33,438 --> 00:15:36,758 Speaker 1: of the four are matchups of intra division rivals like 322 00:15:36,758 --> 00:15:39,158 Speaker 1: the Padres and the Dodgers have played each other now 323 00:15:39,198 --> 00:15:43,038 Speaker 1: twenty one times already. There can't be any secrets. So 324 00:15:43,238 --> 00:15:46,478 Speaker 1: what's the information load or overload if you will, for 325 00:15:46,518 --> 00:15:49,518 Speaker 1: these series? Agreed? I mean, first of all, I like 326 00:15:49,638 --> 00:15:51,878 Speaker 1: less information and not more this time of the year. 327 00:15:51,958 --> 00:15:55,078 Speaker 1: And you just covered a component of that, the fact 328 00:15:55,078 --> 00:15:57,398 Speaker 1: that you played each other so often. These guys know 329 00:15:57,518 --> 00:16:01,798 Speaker 1: one another. If if there is a again I keep 330 00:16:01,878 --> 00:16:04,398 Speaker 1: using the term nugget, but if there's something all that 331 00:16:04,838 --> 00:16:09,998 Speaker 1: has been discern more recently, trends, trends. All this stuff 332 00:16:10,038 --> 00:16:12,598 Speaker 1: is built on a large sample size um. And then 333 00:16:12,638 --> 00:16:14,918 Speaker 1: I'll be told, been told that trends are built into 334 00:16:14,958 --> 00:16:18,638 Speaker 1: these uh and to this evaluation. Fine, but right now, 335 00:16:18,758 --> 00:16:21,198 Speaker 1: I just need to know what judges all about. It's 336 00:16:21,198 --> 00:16:23,798 Speaker 1: October thirteen, so what is going on right now with 337 00:16:23,838 --> 00:16:26,678 Speaker 1: this fellow? I need it broken down a little bit more. 338 00:16:27,198 --> 00:16:30,798 Speaker 1: That's good enough, But I've I've been involved in again 339 00:16:30,878 --> 00:16:34,478 Speaker 1: when you, even though you've played a team often here 340 00:16:34,518 --> 00:16:37,798 Speaker 1: comes the playoffs and then here comes notebooks full of 341 00:16:37,918 --> 00:16:42,438 Speaker 1: information that's redundant, not necessary because you already know this. 342 00:16:42,998 --> 00:16:47,038 Speaker 1: Call it down, reduce, reduce, reduced, permit us to use 343 00:16:47,078 --> 00:16:49,918 Speaker 1: it because at the end of the day, better baseball 344 00:16:49,958 --> 00:16:53,198 Speaker 1: players make it, executing the game better as the group 345 00:16:53,238 --> 00:16:56,398 Speaker 1: that's gonna win in a playoff situation. That's it. It's 346 00:16:56,398 --> 00:16:59,638 Speaker 1: not like information is going to They'll go back to 347 00:16:59,718 --> 00:17:03,718 Speaker 1: the time when Gibson at that backdoor slider from Eckersley 348 00:17:03,798 --> 00:17:06,278 Speaker 1: and the scout that it told him about who I 349 00:17:06,318 --> 00:17:08,998 Speaker 1: know him, love? But I did he mail? I mean 350 00:17:09,318 --> 00:17:12,278 Speaker 1: that there's there's a nugget for you, right, Okay, if 351 00:17:12,318 --> 00:17:13,798 Speaker 1: you could if you could narrow it down to the 352 00:17:13,798 --> 00:17:15,678 Speaker 1: point where you could tell a hitter, listen to this 353 00:17:15,718 --> 00:17:17,598 Speaker 1: guy gets to a full count. He does this almost 354 00:17:17,998 --> 00:17:21,358 Speaker 1: percent of the time. Um, that's that's pretty cool. But 355 00:17:21,438 --> 00:17:23,398 Speaker 1: this other stuff, percentage wise, you don't know how that 356 00:17:23,438 --> 00:17:25,878 Speaker 1: picture views you in that moment. You don't know what 357 00:17:25,958 --> 00:17:28,318 Speaker 1: he feels about, what he could command and not command. 358 00:17:28,478 --> 00:17:30,838 Speaker 1: Everything changes in the trend. Yeah. I thought it was 359 00:17:30,918 --> 00:17:33,318 Speaker 1: really interesting. And we dive into this in the Book 360 00:17:33,358 --> 00:17:36,518 Speaker 1: of Joe in our book where you talked about when 361 00:17:36,518 --> 00:17:38,638 Speaker 1: you get to the most important games of the year, 362 00:17:38,798 --> 00:17:42,598 Speaker 1: and the better the team is, the more information starts 363 00:17:42,678 --> 00:17:45,678 Speaker 1: coming in from the people, let's faces who are not 364 00:17:45,798 --> 00:17:48,718 Speaker 1: wearing the uniforms, who want to try to influence the 365 00:17:48,798 --> 00:17:51,318 Speaker 1: outcome of the game. And we know that teams have 366 00:17:51,438 --> 00:17:55,358 Speaker 1: been adding personnel in the analytics department, in the baseball 367 00:17:55,358 --> 00:17:59,078 Speaker 1: obst department, so there's a lot of chefs in the 368 00:17:59,158 --> 00:18:03,038 Speaker 1: kitchen when it comes to postseason baseball. Yeah, and and 369 00:18:03,078 --> 00:18:05,878 Speaker 1: you don't need it quite frankly, you really don't need it. Um. 370 00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:08,078 Speaker 1: I hate to hurt anybody's feelings, but if you could 371 00:18:08,118 --> 00:18:11,878 Speaker 1: get any manager that's done this, players coaches asked them 372 00:18:11,958 --> 00:18:15,158 Speaker 1: all they will support exactly what I'm saying. Yeah we 373 00:18:15,238 --> 00:18:17,878 Speaker 1: want it, don't get Yes we want it, but you 374 00:18:17,998 --> 00:18:21,998 Speaker 1: don't need it in vats and barrels and truckloads. You don't. 375 00:18:22,118 --> 00:18:25,638 Speaker 1: You just don't. There's only so much you could absorb 376 00:18:25,718 --> 00:18:28,478 Speaker 1: in the moment, and when it's hot and you're playing 377 00:18:28,478 --> 00:18:31,518 Speaker 1: for a very high stakes, your focus has to be 378 00:18:31,678 --> 00:18:34,198 Speaker 1: really finely tuned. You have to be able to stay 379 00:18:34,278 --> 00:18:38,318 Speaker 1: right here, right now, and to try to recall information 380 00:18:38,398 --> 00:18:40,718 Speaker 1: intel and try to put it in a play right 381 00:18:40,718 --> 00:18:43,838 Speaker 1: now is nearly impossible. Good stuff, Joe. Hey, when we 382 00:18:43,878 --> 00:18:46,238 Speaker 1: come back to the Book of Joe, I want to 383 00:18:46,278 --> 00:18:48,518 Speaker 1: talk about what it was really like back in the 384 00:18:48,638 --> 00:18:51,958 Speaker 1: quote good old days when it comes to starting pitchers 385 00:18:51,998 --> 00:18:55,558 Speaker 1: who pitched deep into games and through a ton of pitches. 386 00:18:56,038 --> 00:18:59,238 Speaker 1: Maybe they were too many pitches. Back with that in 387 00:18:59,238 --> 00:19:07,758 Speaker 1: a minute, Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. 388 00:19:08,438 --> 00:19:11,878 Speaker 1: Dick Ellsworth passed away at the age of I believe 389 00:19:11,918 --> 00:19:16,038 Speaker 1: he was eighty two. Dick Ellsworth in nineteen sixty three 390 00:19:16,118 --> 00:19:18,958 Speaker 1: for the Chicago Cubs was twenty two and ten with 391 00:19:18,998 --> 00:19:22,278 Speaker 1: a two point one one e r A just an 392 00:19:22,318 --> 00:19:25,558 Speaker 1: amazing year. Why do I bring up his name? Because 393 00:19:25,558 --> 00:19:28,238 Speaker 1: we talked about pitching now, and guys don't pitch two 394 00:19:28,318 --> 00:19:30,478 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty innings and they don't throw a hundred 395 00:19:30,518 --> 00:19:32,318 Speaker 1: and fifty pitches in the game, and we say it 396 00:19:32,438 --> 00:19:36,238 Speaker 1: like it's a criticism, But what we really don't remember 397 00:19:36,438 --> 00:19:39,198 Speaker 1: is back in the day, how many innings and pitches 398 00:19:39,318 --> 00:19:42,998 Speaker 1: guys through and just had their careers ruined by it, 399 00:19:43,118 --> 00:19:45,758 Speaker 1: or at least compromised. And I'll tell you a story 400 00:19:45,798 --> 00:19:49,198 Speaker 1: about Dick Ellsworth. He came out of Fresno, California high school, 401 00:19:49,238 --> 00:19:53,758 Speaker 1: teammates with Jim Maloney, who obviously had a great career 402 00:19:53,758 --> 00:19:57,518 Speaker 1: with the Cincinnati Reds. But Dick Ellsworth, three days after 403 00:19:57,558 --> 00:20:00,198 Speaker 1: he graduates from high school, the Cubs bring him to 404 00:20:00,398 --> 00:20:04,078 Speaker 1: Comiskey Park in Chicago to pitch in an exhibition him 405 00:20:04,078 --> 00:20:08,358 Speaker 1: against the White Sox. He throws a complete game. He's 406 00:20:08,518 --> 00:20:12,478 Speaker 1: just literally out of high school, and eleven days later 407 00:20:12,638 --> 00:20:15,638 Speaker 1: they haven't pitched in a major league game. So he 408 00:20:15,718 --> 00:20:18,678 Speaker 1: was piling up these huge inning totals. In that nineteen 409 00:20:18,718 --> 00:20:23,198 Speaker 1: sixty three season, he threw two hundred ninety innings. Well, 410 00:20:23,358 --> 00:20:25,238 Speaker 1: his career went off the tracks, had a lot of 411 00:20:25,358 --> 00:20:27,558 Speaker 1: armed trouble, you know, he he did pitch a few 412 00:20:27,638 --> 00:20:30,358 Speaker 1: years after that, but really wasn't the same. And you 413 00:20:30,398 --> 00:20:32,518 Speaker 1: can make the same case for Jim Maloney who piled 414 00:20:32,558 --> 00:20:34,798 Speaker 1: up a ton of innings at an early age and 415 00:20:35,158 --> 00:20:39,118 Speaker 1: essentially was done at the age of twenty nine. Those 416 00:20:39,158 --> 00:20:42,198 Speaker 1: are not anomalies. It happened a lot. We remember the 417 00:20:42,238 --> 00:20:45,198 Speaker 1: guys like the Jim Palmers and the Catfish Hunters, and 418 00:20:45,318 --> 00:20:47,838 Speaker 1: the guys who totaled all these innings, the Gaylord Perry's. 419 00:20:47,958 --> 00:20:51,478 Speaker 1: But how about all those that we lost, so Joe, 420 00:20:51,518 --> 00:20:54,998 Speaker 1: I know, sometimes we can go overboard with pitchers and 421 00:20:55,038 --> 00:20:58,958 Speaker 1: putting governors on their pitch counts and innings. Were you 422 00:20:58,998 --> 00:21:02,678 Speaker 1: at these days with especially watching these postseason games and 423 00:21:02,718 --> 00:21:06,158 Speaker 1: almost nobody's going over a hundred pitches um. With the 424 00:21:06,198 --> 00:21:09,638 Speaker 1: way we do have governors on starting pitchers, I think 425 00:21:09,678 --> 00:21:12,598 Speaker 1: a hunter could be a little bit conservative with certain guys. 426 00:21:12,638 --> 00:21:14,278 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to know your player, You've got 427 00:21:14,278 --> 00:21:17,278 Speaker 1: to know your the the competitor out there and what 428 00:21:17,318 --> 00:21:20,558 Speaker 1: he's capable of doing. UM. I don't think add ten 429 00:21:20,798 --> 00:21:25,278 Speaker 1: is exorbitant. UM. Even sometimes when it's necessary to say one, fifteen, 430 00:21:25,398 --> 00:21:28,158 Speaker 1: one twenty. What you do then is you back off 431 00:21:28,198 --> 00:21:30,038 Speaker 1: this guy. The next time, you put the number down 432 00:21:30,038 --> 00:21:32,398 Speaker 1: a little bit more manageable number the next time, in 433 00:21:32,518 --> 00:21:34,878 Speaker 1: order to hopefully keep him well for a long period 434 00:21:34,878 --> 00:21:37,358 Speaker 1: of time. I think part of it also is how 435 00:21:37,398 --> 00:21:39,598 Speaker 1: they're were brought up in the minor league system and 436 00:21:39,638 --> 00:21:41,238 Speaker 1: what they're permitted to do and try to do at 437 00:21:41,278 --> 00:21:44,198 Speaker 1: that point. Yeah, you can go overboard a hundred percent, 438 00:21:44,438 --> 00:21:48,678 Speaker 1: not not disputing that whatsoever, But depends on the guy. 439 00:21:48,718 --> 00:21:51,198 Speaker 1: That kind of shapes in how strong he is, how 440 00:21:51,238 --> 00:21:53,838 Speaker 1: he repeats his delivery. Uh, these are things you're gonna 441 00:21:53,878 --> 00:21:56,638 Speaker 1: know over a period of time. Like James Shields, for instance, 442 00:21:56,638 --> 00:21:59,558 Speaker 1: Shields always wanted to finish game. God, I love the 443 00:21:59,598 --> 00:22:01,518 Speaker 1: man had him with the rays and he'd hit like 444 00:22:01,718 --> 00:22:04,118 Speaker 1: and I would always be very careful watch it's like 445 00:22:04,158 --> 00:22:07,398 Speaker 1: a hundred hundred five pitches. And then at that point 446 00:22:07,518 --> 00:22:10,678 Speaker 1: it just seemed like everything did decline. But he wanted 447 00:22:10,718 --> 00:22:12,838 Speaker 1: an opportunity to go further. And I said, listen, man, 448 00:22:12,878 --> 00:22:15,038 Speaker 1: you gotta be able to show that you could command 449 00:22:15,078 --> 00:22:16,958 Speaker 1: and pitch as well when you go a little bit 450 00:22:16,958 --> 00:22:19,118 Speaker 1: beyond that. Got to the point he had a nice 451 00:22:19,358 --> 00:22:20,718 Speaker 1: you can look it up. He had a nice run 452 00:22:20,718 --> 00:22:22,558 Speaker 1: of complete games there for a while. I can't remember 453 00:22:22,598 --> 00:22:24,358 Speaker 1: what year it was, but he was going over that 454 00:22:24,398 --> 00:22:25,878 Speaker 1: and I thought a hundred and once he got past 455 00:22:25,878 --> 00:22:28,358 Speaker 1: a hundred eight successfully. I don't know why I picked that, 456 00:22:28,478 --> 00:22:30,878 Speaker 1: everybody did, but he became good and he was finding 457 00:22:30,918 --> 00:22:33,278 Speaker 1: he could complete things, and he had a really long 458 00:22:33,358 --> 00:22:35,718 Speaker 1: and very good career as in major league picture. So 459 00:22:35,918 --> 00:22:37,918 Speaker 1: that was James and that was something I had to 460 00:22:37,918 --> 00:22:41,398 Speaker 1: figure out about him, specifically that whole group under David Price. 461 00:22:41,478 --> 00:22:43,998 Speaker 1: David did not want to come out of games. Alex 462 00:22:44,038 --> 00:22:45,998 Speaker 1: Cobb did not want to come out of games. I 463 00:22:45,998 --> 00:22:48,438 Speaker 1: could name a lot of good pictures. So you have 464 00:22:48,558 --> 00:22:50,918 Speaker 1: to just watch them. You have to understand what you believe, 465 00:22:51,638 --> 00:22:53,838 Speaker 1: what is their waterloo, what are they capable of? And 466 00:22:53,918 --> 00:22:56,598 Speaker 1: also I had to figure out how is it gonna 467 00:22:56,598 --> 00:22:58,478 Speaker 1: impact your next start? And that's why you gotta be 468 00:22:58,478 --> 00:23:00,318 Speaker 1: careful with all this stuff. So I don't know if 469 00:23:00,318 --> 00:23:03,438 Speaker 1: imagine your question or not, but there's there's a certain 470 00:23:03,438 --> 00:23:05,758 Speaker 1: guys that I don't think one, one, ten is any 471 00:23:05,838 --> 00:23:09,478 Speaker 1: kind of a scretch whatsoever, where there's others to ninety 472 00:23:09,518 --> 00:23:10,878 Speaker 1: would be the number. And you want to get him 473 00:23:10,878 --> 00:23:13,758 Speaker 1: out and not just you learned that through experience, not 474 00:23:14,158 --> 00:23:16,718 Speaker 1: don't treat everybody the same, try to read the individual, 475 00:23:17,078 --> 00:23:20,518 Speaker 1: understand what he's capable of doing, and making adjustments. Yeah, 476 00:23:20,518 --> 00:23:22,518 Speaker 1: I'm just not sure we'll see a starting pitcher in 477 00:23:22,518 --> 00:23:25,558 Speaker 1: this postseason shake his catcher's hand after the end of 478 00:23:25,558 --> 00:23:27,838 Speaker 1: the game getting the last out. It takes me back 479 00:23:27,878 --> 00:23:30,078 Speaker 1: to what Kurt Schilling wants told me. He said, starting 480 00:23:30,118 --> 00:23:33,878 Speaker 1: pitchers they're like labrador retrievers. They'll do what you train 481 00:23:33,958 --> 00:23:37,038 Speaker 1: them to do. And we're training pictures now, you know, 482 00:23:37,158 --> 00:23:39,838 Speaker 1: to go five or six innings twice around the lineup. 483 00:23:40,278 --> 00:23:42,438 Speaker 1: Dave Roberts great manager. I think he does a great 484 00:23:42,478 --> 00:23:46,158 Speaker 1: job with the Dodgers, but he's managed seventy nine postseason games, 485 00:23:46,318 --> 00:23:49,878 Speaker 1: and out of those seventy nine postseason games, only seven 486 00:23:49,918 --> 00:23:53,398 Speaker 1: times has a starting pitcher throwing a hundred pitches. It's 487 00:23:53,398 --> 00:23:55,238 Speaker 1: just the way they roll, it's the way they do it, 488 00:23:55,278 --> 00:23:57,598 Speaker 1: and I think the players now buy into it. Now. Listen, 489 00:23:57,638 --> 00:24:00,678 Speaker 1: He's got a lot of good bullpen options. You better, um, 490 00:24:00,758 --> 00:24:02,918 Speaker 1: but that's the game we have today. Yeah, you're right. 491 00:24:02,958 --> 00:24:04,758 Speaker 1: I mean you have to have of that cache in 492 00:24:04,758 --> 00:24:07,598 Speaker 1: the bullpen otherwise it just doesn't work. Otherwise it doesn't 493 00:24:07,598 --> 00:24:09,118 Speaker 1: look so good at the end. Of the day unless 494 00:24:09,158 --> 00:24:11,118 Speaker 1: you have that to back it up. And by the way, 495 00:24:11,358 --> 00:24:15,118 Speaker 1: are you following this Cleveland fishing scandal that's going on. 496 00:24:17,798 --> 00:24:20,398 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about cheating and baseball, but it's 497 00:24:20,398 --> 00:24:23,038 Speaker 1: amazing story. A lot of people digging into this thing 498 00:24:23,038 --> 00:24:26,318 Speaker 1: in Cleveland where these guys wanted multiple fishing tournaments and 499 00:24:26,478 --> 00:24:28,278 Speaker 1: one day they cut open the fish and they find 500 00:24:28,358 --> 00:24:32,598 Speaker 1: lead weights in the fish. They were basically the Tiger 501 00:24:32,598 --> 00:24:34,758 Speaker 1: Woods and the fishing tournament. People are like, why these 502 00:24:34,758 --> 00:24:37,358 Speaker 1: guys keep winning? Uh? What With the help of a 503 00:24:37,438 --> 00:24:40,598 Speaker 1: knife and gutting the fish they found out why? Um 504 00:24:40,678 --> 00:24:43,158 Speaker 1: it which brings me to baseball of course, because everybody 505 00:24:43,198 --> 00:24:45,798 Speaker 1: talks about cheating and trying to get away with things, 506 00:24:45,838 --> 00:24:49,238 Speaker 1: and we have seen spin rates go up. Um. But 507 00:24:49,318 --> 00:24:52,318 Speaker 1: I tell people it's a lot like for me P. E. 508 00:24:52,438 --> 00:24:55,118 Speaker 1: D s where, yeah, I think the checks that they 509 00:24:55,118 --> 00:24:57,758 Speaker 1: do on pictures now it kind of gets out the 510 00:24:58,118 --> 00:25:01,838 Speaker 1: real hardcore spider tax stuff that was putting ridiculous spin 511 00:25:01,918 --> 00:25:05,238 Speaker 1: on pitches. You could actually hear ace ball spinning as 512 00:25:05,278 --> 00:25:08,678 Speaker 1: they ripped out of picture's hand with the super sticky 513 00:25:08,758 --> 00:25:11,598 Speaker 1: stuff on their fingers. At A coach tell me about 514 00:25:11,638 --> 00:25:13,878 Speaker 1: a month or two ago, he saw a picture on 515 00:25:13,878 --> 00:25:17,318 Speaker 1: the other team taking pine tar spray and sprang it 516 00:25:17,478 --> 00:25:20,278 Speaker 1: on the inside of his legs, on his pants, and 517 00:25:20,318 --> 00:25:22,598 Speaker 1: that's where he would go to to load up. Now again, 518 00:25:22,678 --> 00:25:25,438 Speaker 1: is he getting a super advantage with that? No, but 519 00:25:25,558 --> 00:25:28,358 Speaker 1: he is breaking the rules. So I don't know how 520 00:25:28,398 --> 00:25:30,478 Speaker 1: you feel about this, Joe and the baseballs and the 521 00:25:30,478 --> 00:25:34,038 Speaker 1: pictures trying to get quote unquote a grip rather than 522 00:25:34,198 --> 00:25:37,678 Speaker 1: a performance enhancement. But what can be done about it? Well, 523 00:25:37,678 --> 00:25:40,318 Speaker 1: I think right now, but everything they are that's in place. 524 00:25:40,398 --> 00:25:42,718 Speaker 1: I think MLB is inn a nice job of trying 525 00:25:42,718 --> 00:25:46,078 Speaker 1: to put all of this back into perspective. But guys 526 00:25:46,078 --> 00:25:49,318 Speaker 1: are pretty inventive and they'll move on to some other things. 527 00:25:49,358 --> 00:25:52,158 Speaker 1: And I really don't know what's going on with that. 528 00:25:52,238 --> 00:25:55,558 Speaker 1: I don't I um um. If anything's new and exciting 529 00:25:55,558 --> 00:25:57,758 Speaker 1: and everybody's trying it and nobody knows about it, I'm 530 00:25:57,798 --> 00:26:00,278 Speaker 1: not aware of that at all. But you're just you're 531 00:26:00,278 --> 00:26:02,798 Speaker 1: always looking for that level playing field. You're always looking 532 00:26:02,798 --> 00:26:05,798 Speaker 1: for this saying like even the Stero Little Era, I 533 00:26:05,798 --> 00:26:08,278 Speaker 1: mean that's when the Rays send it because of the 534 00:26:08,358 --> 00:26:10,318 Speaker 1: rules that came into the game and that permitted us 535 00:26:10,678 --> 00:26:15,118 Speaker 1: to play better against teams that had larger payrolls. Right now, 536 00:26:15,318 --> 00:26:17,598 Speaker 1: the same thing with pitching staffs. If you could gain 537 00:26:17,638 --> 00:26:20,158 Speaker 1: an advantage, there is that there, there's a there does 538 00:26:20,238 --> 00:26:22,278 Speaker 1: make a difference if you've been able to gain an 539 00:26:22,278 --> 00:26:26,678 Speaker 1: advantage via some kind of method of gripping the ball better. 540 00:26:27,078 --> 00:26:29,278 Speaker 1: So I I like, what's going on right now? I mean, 541 00:26:29,598 --> 00:26:31,678 Speaker 1: you know the umpires, they're checking them after every inning. 542 00:26:32,038 --> 00:26:33,238 Speaker 1: I don't even know if you have to. I don't 543 00:26:33,278 --> 00:26:35,998 Speaker 1: even know what the next level of scrutiny is gonna look. Like. 544 00:26:36,638 --> 00:26:39,598 Speaker 1: We just stay with this right now, really pay attention 545 00:26:39,638 --> 00:26:42,358 Speaker 1: to it, and like you're talking about spin rates, I'm not. 546 00:26:42,358 --> 00:26:45,078 Speaker 1: I'm just not aware of that, um and you are, 547 00:26:45,118 --> 00:26:48,078 Speaker 1: and I always appreciate your information. So I think that's 548 00:26:48,078 --> 00:26:50,838 Speaker 1: gonna be looked at even more critically as this goes further. 549 00:26:50,918 --> 00:26:52,638 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, though it's a 550 00:26:52,638 --> 00:26:55,238 Speaker 1: playoff baseball game, does somebody get amped up a little 551 00:26:55,278 --> 00:26:57,278 Speaker 1: bit more? Does somebody have more rested they normally have 552 00:26:57,398 --> 00:26:59,518 Speaker 1: this time of the year, If somebody feeling better than 553 00:26:59,558 --> 00:27:01,878 Speaker 1: they did two weeks ago, I don't know that can 554 00:27:01,918 --> 00:27:03,518 Speaker 1: play into it. At the last point, I would always 555 00:27:03,518 --> 00:27:06,038 Speaker 1: look at it is the Max that this guy has 556 00:27:06,118 --> 00:27:08,758 Speaker 1: done with Spin during the course of the year. Does 557 00:27:08,838 --> 00:27:10,998 Speaker 1: that Max match up what's going on right now that 558 00:27:11,038 --> 00:27:14,158 Speaker 1: I'd be curious about that cool stuff? Hey, before we go, 559 00:27:14,638 --> 00:27:17,678 Speaker 1: I need uh you're into classic rock and roll. I 560 00:27:17,718 --> 00:27:20,878 Speaker 1: did a good recommendation recently. I gotta tell you I 561 00:27:20,998 --> 00:27:26,118 Speaker 1: rediscovered Jefferson Starship. Oh yeah, very underrated, Joe. I mean, 562 00:27:26,198 --> 00:27:30,078 Speaker 1: we do deep dives on Jefferson Starship and the musicality 563 00:27:30,198 --> 00:27:33,238 Speaker 1: and the vocality of what they did pretty darn cool. 564 00:27:33,318 --> 00:27:35,878 Speaker 1: I'm not sure anybody's doing something like that these days. 565 00:27:35,918 --> 00:27:37,558 Speaker 1: So you have to go back into the way back 566 00:27:37,598 --> 00:27:39,958 Speaker 1: machine to to hear some of that rock and roll. 567 00:27:40,038 --> 00:27:42,758 Speaker 1: But give me some other band, because we're talking about 568 00:27:42,758 --> 00:27:44,918 Speaker 1: bands back in the day, right, which we don't see 569 00:27:44,958 --> 00:27:47,678 Speaker 1: these days. Give me a band that maybe we should 570 00:27:47,678 --> 00:27:50,838 Speaker 1: go back and rediscover, uh Sly and the Family Stone. 571 00:27:51,318 --> 00:27:55,718 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, great call when I I'll throw them on once. 572 00:27:55,758 --> 00:27:57,958 Speaker 1: You know I'm gonna take you higher, right, I just 573 00:27:58,718 --> 00:28:01,998 Speaker 1: it is everyday people. I these guys are brilliant. I 574 00:28:02,038 --> 00:28:04,598 Speaker 1: don't know that they ever got there due maybe they did. 575 00:28:04,638 --> 00:28:07,318 Speaker 1: I was too young to understand that. But there's times 576 00:28:07,318 --> 00:28:09,518 Speaker 1: and like I'm sitting here with my sir Win Vegas 577 00:28:09,558 --> 00:28:12,838 Speaker 1: speakers here off my amp right here, Yamaha app and 578 00:28:12,878 --> 00:28:16,278 Speaker 1: I could blast this room pretty good. Uh slide on 579 00:28:16,318 --> 00:28:19,518 Speaker 1: this system sounds fabulous. So if you want to be inspired, 580 00:28:20,038 --> 00:28:22,358 Speaker 1: just throw that group on. It'll raise the hair on 581 00:28:22,398 --> 00:28:23,958 Speaker 1: the back of your neck a little bit. Thank you 582 00:28:24,078 --> 00:28:26,638 Speaker 1: so much for that, because when we're done with this podcast, 583 00:28:26,878 --> 00:28:29,878 Speaker 1: I am going to listen to everyday people love that 584 00:28:30,198 --> 00:28:33,758 Speaker 1: love that track, Joe. It's always been fun, always cool, 585 00:28:33,878 --> 00:28:35,718 Speaker 1: and we're gonna do it again next week. The Book 586 00:28:35,718 --> 00:28:38,278 Speaker 1: of Joe Podcast coming at you twice a week here 587 00:28:38,358 --> 00:28:41,358 Speaker 1: during postseason baseball. Always a lot to talk about and 588 00:28:41,438 --> 00:28:44,838 Speaker 1: it's always interesting with my man Joe Madden. Great job, Tommy. 589 00:28:44,878 --> 00:28:47,318 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, buddy, and don't forget the Book of Joe. 590 00:28:47,558 --> 00:28:51,838 Speaker 1: The book is on sale now wherever you buy your books. 591 00:28:52,238 --> 00:29:02,638 Speaker 1: Take care of piece. The Book of Joe podcast is 592 00:29:02,678 --> 00:29:05,598 Speaker 1: a production of my Heart Radio. For more podcasts for 593 00:29:05,718 --> 00:29:09,558 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 594 00:29:09,678 --> 00:29:11,478 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.