1 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: Lute for us. If it doesn't work, you're just not 2 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military 3 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: Nails and straight talk with the guys in the community. 4 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: Hi, and welcome to an awesome, another awesome episode of 5 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 2: soft Reap Radio. I am your glorious host, Rad And 6 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: for those of you that are just joining us, well, welcome, 7 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: congratulations on finding us. We are on all major platforms 8 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: including softwap dot com. And for those of you who 9 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: have just always emailed me general roles, sergeants, privates, everybody 10 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: that's around the world, people who are like, hey, Rad, 11 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: you really keep going. Thank you for continually to be 12 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: on the show and listen and keep the fireplace going by, 13 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: you know, picking up the merch at our merch store right, 14 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 2: softwap dot com forward slash merch. We got merch. It's 15 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: all got soft rep on it. There's new stuff coming out. 16 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: You can get Brandon Webb's logo on your chest and 17 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: walking around like a superman. Go ahead and buy that 18 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: all right, and then tag us in it. We'd love 19 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: to see it. And also one of the most important 20 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 2: things you can do is work out your mind by 21 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: reading a book. And if you go to soft reap 22 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: dot com Forward slash book Hyphened Club. You can join 23 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: our book club where these guys like Brandon Webb and 24 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: others have curated a really cool library of books that 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: you would probably enjoy to read, including Steal Fear, you know, 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: or you know the Red Circle. So go check out 27 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: those books and hopefully we can get our guest here. Okay, 28 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: Melissa's book in our book club. But I would like 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: to introduce Melissa Zibro and your name zero Bro, Zero Bro, 30 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 2: zero Bro. We're gonna say it the rock star. Melissa, 31 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: Welcome to our show. 32 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 3: You just said the rock star. I like that you 33 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: introduced yourself as your glorious host. I think I'm just 34 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 3: gonna walk into the. 35 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 4: Classroom every time now, I'd be like, you're glorious, Professor. 36 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: I'm here. 37 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: We all know why we're here. You know what I'm saying, Professor, Like, 38 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: it's like when you go to the gym. You know 39 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: you're there to put your effort in and the coach 40 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: is like, we all know it hurts. That's why you're here. 41 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: You're here to go to the gym and go into class. Professor, Yes, 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: that is like the gym for sure, you know, and 43 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: that's cool that you're also a professor. And so let 44 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: me just introduce Melissa a little bit and humbly say that. 45 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: Melissa is the director of Public History at Monmouth University 46 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: in West Long Branch, New Jersey, where her classes include 47 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: the Vietnam War. She also serves as the curator of 48 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: the Campus of Bruce Bringsteen Archives and Center for American Music. 49 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: She is the author of Fort Monmouth, the US Army's 50 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: House of Magic, and a former trustee of the New 51 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: Jersey Vietnam Veterans Memorial Foundation in Home Deel, New Jersey. Okay, 52 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: very cool. I'm sure there's a lot more going on 53 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: with you than just what's on that little bio. Okay, 54 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: so let me ask you something. What is the US 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: Army's House of Magic? And for what is the House 56 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: of Magic? 57 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? 58 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I started my career as a historian twenty 59 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 4: one years ago in the Historical office for the United 60 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 4: States Army Communications Electronics Command at a military base here 61 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 4: in Central Jersey known as Fort Mammoth. So Fort Mammoth 62 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 4: started as a signal core camp during World War One, 63 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 4: and it was open all the way through twenty eleven, 64 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 4: when it was supporting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. So 65 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 4: the Army ultimately closed Fort Mammoth during a base realignment 66 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 4: enclosure round. But the innovations that came out of the 67 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: base not only saved lives on the battlefield, change the 68 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 4: way we all live from early satellite technology, early computing technology, 69 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 4: early cell phone technologies. You know cost code, yep, absolutely, 70 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 4: you know, early radios. Some of the first things they 71 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 4: were testing during the World War One era were air 72 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 4: to ground radio. So and then even the Army closed 73 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 4: that base. But Netflix is getting ready to move in, 74 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 4: and since there's all this attention on the site, I 75 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 4: did this book with brook Casemate Press and wanted. 76 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: To make sure everybody remembers all the cool things that 77 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: happened there. 78 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: And then and then is that how you got hooked 79 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: on the story of the Vietnam So what we're going 80 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: to talk about is, you know, Battling Bastards of Bravo, 81 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: and I think it's the first of the five oh sixth. 82 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you have the bo okay, the battle and 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: Bassards of Bravo, the first of the five oh six 84 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: the one hundred and first airborne in Vietnam, And I mean, 85 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,679 Speaker 2: you know, the stories that you were able to capture 86 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: were either from them or from their buddies that they 87 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: were willing to talk to because such a shell shocking 88 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: traumatic experience that no one else would ever understand. I 89 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: could only say that, like no one else would ever 90 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: understand what it's like to be in the same trenches 91 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: with each other seeing whatever hell that they quote is 92 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 2: on earth, which is there in Vietnam, right, And so 93 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: you know, tell us what inspired you to Yeah, so I. 94 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 3: Started my careers. 95 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 4: I just noted it's a military historian, and you know, 96 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 4: then moved into teaching full time before becoming a curator 97 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 4: the Springsteen Archives, which is a whole nother story. But 98 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 4: you know, I am just so passionate about documenting and 99 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 4: then sharing the experiences of our veterans and active duty 100 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 4: military personnel. I don't have to tell you less than 101 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 4: one percent of the population serves today. I can walk 102 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 4: in a classroom and students who they certainly haven't served 103 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 4: in many of them don't even have a veteran in 104 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 4: their family. 105 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: Right. 106 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 4: So, no matter what my day job is, it's always 107 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 4: going to be very important to me that I look 108 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 4: for ways to documented, to share veterans stories. I've done, 109 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 4: you know, several hundred oral history interviews over the course 110 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 4: of my career, most of them with active duty military 111 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 4: or veterans. So with this book specifically, I just happened 112 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 4: to meet the gentleman who wrote the forward to the book, Tarlton. 113 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 4: You know, we met in a totally unrelated project, totally 114 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 4: unrelated project that I was working on, and he's like, hey, 115 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 4: I like you you should write a book about my unit. 116 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 4: You know, I just I can't say no to a 117 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 4: good to a good story, can't say no to a 118 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 4: vet and so it kind of just went from there. 119 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 4: This particular unit, so Bravo Company started. 120 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 3: Doing reunions a few years ago. 121 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 4: And out of the unions came what they call the Journal. 122 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 4: It's like this internal history that they wrote for themselves, 123 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 4: painstakingly researched. I mean, it's really beautiful. So they had that, 124 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 4: but that was just something that was internal. 125 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 3: You know. Jim wanted to do. 126 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 4: Something that would get these stories before the widest possible audience, 127 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 4: and so you know, he connected with me. I brought 128 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 4: it to Casemate, who had just published my Fort Mammoth book. 129 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: And we went from there and that the world I 130 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: tell the guys. 131 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 3: Said like, and I'll tell anybody who asks me, I'm 132 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 3: just their secretary. Right, they had their story. It's their stories, right, 133 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: they don't need me meddling in them. 134 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 4: I was there to collect the stories, to lightly edit 135 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 4: the stories, and then to deal with the publisher. 136 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: Right. 137 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: But it's all of them. And the stories are just. 138 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 4: Harrowing and inspiring and sometimes funny, you know, it's it's 139 00:07:58,560 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 4: all the guys. 140 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: Know. Your story of their stories is your story, right, okay. 141 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: And so the way that you put them together and 142 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: you know, present that does become some ownership. You have 143 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: to have some you know connection to you know, what 144 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: they talk about, you know, in their book, the and 145 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: the and the tales that they have to tell, like 146 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: you know, being eighteen years old and just saying that 147 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: this is hell on earth. 148 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: You know, and it's incredible because I deal with eighteen 149 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 3: year olds every day. 150 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: Right, And could they say and they're like, oh. 151 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: My god, I have two papers do crime and how 152 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 3: I manage? And that's okay? Like stress is relative. 153 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 4: There are stress in civilian life, you know here in 154 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 4: New Jersey. But to see that juxtaposition, right, of my 155 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 4: students and then to think what we asked of the 156 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 4: men that we. 157 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 3: Send to Vietnam is really mind boggling. 158 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 4: And I think it's so very important that those who 159 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 4: don't have any experience with the military understand what you're 160 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 4: truly asking of someone when you ask. 161 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 3: Them to deploy to go to war. 162 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 4: I think it's important that everybody have an understanding of 163 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 4: what we're actually asking of our men and women in uniform. 164 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love that, And you know, the book 165 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 2: should bring that out because it's just going to be exactly, 166 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 2: you know, what the guys went through is Vietnam? And 167 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: is this something that you know, I meet a lot 168 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: of authors, okay, a lot of cool people that write 169 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: a lot of cool books and dig deep and everything, 170 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 2: you know, and some of them turn into TV series, 171 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: some of them turn into some type of a movie. 172 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 2: You know. Is that something that you guys are looking 173 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: at to help expand on their story and just put 174 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: it out there. Is this something that's being talked about? 175 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: I just said Netflix was coming to town. 176 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: Right, Maybe I. 177 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: Don't know it. 178 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: Well, we love Netflix. Let's just say we love Netflix. Okay, 179 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: thanks for buying Powder Mountain in Utah. Netflix, good job. 180 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 3: It would be completely up to the guys. 181 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 4: Again, I want them to feel ownership over this project. 182 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 3: At all times, I worked with them. 183 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 4: So you know, there's twenty six stories told and then 184 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 4: one gold Star family. I worked with them every step 185 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 4: of the way, so they got to see the edits 186 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 4: and make sure they were comfortable. They got to see 187 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 4: the photos that were being used like that was There's 188 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 4: this term shared authority that we use in the public 189 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 4: history sector, and it was very, very important to me 190 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 4: that I not exploit them in any way throughout this 191 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 4: process because I wanted to get a book done. It's 192 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 4: not about me getting a bookedne It's about them. 193 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 3: And so you know, if somebody. 194 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 4: Comes up with an author or an offer to turn 195 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 4: this into a series or something, it'll be up to 196 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 4: all of these guys to decide collectively. 197 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: And then they would probably say to their secretary, very kindly, 198 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: Secretary Secretary, Melissa, let me read something here real quick. 199 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: Let's see if this makes some sense to my listeners. 200 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: So to describe a little bit about this book. Most 201 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: are either written by unit members or told by zebro. 202 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: If the veteran was uncomfortable speaking to an outsider, he 203 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: was interviewed by an other unit member. You know, there 204 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: was a little editing just to save some face in 205 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: the book for most stories. But however, the individual voice 206 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 2: of each veteran is clearly heard, and these are quotes 207 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: and praises about your book already. This here says the 208 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: battle ambassads of B Company, first Battalion, five or six 209 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: Infantry Regiment, Hunter, and first Airborne Division fought daily against 210 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: a well trained and determined enemy during their tours in 211 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: Vietnam nineteen sixty eight through seventy one. Before the war, 212 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: these men were brothers, sons, sweethearts. I love that part, husbands, fathers. 213 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: Some were athletes, some musicians, some were just out of 214 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 2: high school, some in established careers already. You know, I'm 215 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: sure my listener out there could pick one of those 216 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 2: if they've served and find themselves in one of those brackets. 217 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: You know, there is no monolithic battling bastard. But when 218 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: they joined the hundred and first Airborne Division, one of 219 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: the most highly decorated divisions in the United States Army 220 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: in Vietnam, they united, fighting for each other and fighting 221 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 2: to return home safely. Perc it was difficult to put 222 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: their experiences behind them as bravo veteran Terry Taylor recalled, 223 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: I learned at the age of eighteen that you don't 224 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: have to die to go to hell. Vietnam was hell 225 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: on Earth, and yet despite the obstacles, many of these 226 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: men built successful lives post war. Decades after returning from 227 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: the war, when the men were ready to cautiously revisit 228 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: their experiences, the bastards starting started state size reunions, which 229 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: is what you were touching base on. You know, they 230 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: started getting together, you started collecting them their stories, and 231 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 2: you know, from these reunions came the wish to share 232 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: their stories with the world, to honor, to educate, and 233 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 2: to inspire. The result is this book, written from interviews 234 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: and diligent archival research, in which the surviving battle and 235 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: bastards tell their stories of combat in their own words 236 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: and honor those who sacrificed for their country and their unit. 237 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: And so, Melissa, do you know, are these surviving members 238 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 2: are they being brought into like current one hundred and 239 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: first Airborne interview like meetings, and like you know, Pep 240 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: talks to these young men that are in the Hunter first. 241 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 2: You know that might be a good thing for maybe 242 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 2: some of them to be pulled into like, you know, 243 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: we need older experience to teach younger, right. 244 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 4: I love that, and I would say, to the best 245 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 4: of my knowledge and working with these guys over the 246 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 4: past two plus years, most of them have been very 247 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 4: very quiet about their service up to this point. And 248 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 4: that's not unusual, right with veterans. A lot of times 249 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 4: you want to come home and you want to put 250 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 4: it behind you, and you want to get on with 251 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 4: your lives, and so I don't think many of the 252 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 4: gentlemen have been involved in that type of mentoring thus far. 253 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 4: I think they might be getting to the point where 254 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: they're ready, though several of them have said that this 255 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 4: book is the first time they've told their stories to anybody, 256 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 4: even to family. But now they're getting to, you know, 257 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 4: an older stage in life, and they're recognizing that if 258 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 4: they don't tell these stories, who will, and that there 259 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 4: are lessons that can be learned from these stories. I 260 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 4: think often when I do oral history interviews, potential narrators 261 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 4: might be a little hesitant because they feel like it's 262 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 4: self promoting, right, and they'll always say, I didn't do 263 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 4: anything special, you don't want to talk to me, you 264 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 4: don't need to be And I say, no, you did 265 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 4: simply by serving, by deploying, right, no one else can 266 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: tell your story. And so you know, they're starting to 267 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: open up for the first time. Several of the guys 268 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 4: have agreed to do interviews like this if there's any 269 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 4: call for it. 270 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 3: So I'm really proud of them. It's brave of them to. 271 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 4: Revisit these things, even if it is fifty years later. 272 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: I mean, really, you know, my dad was in Vietnam 273 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: as a seventeen year old in the Navy in sixty eight, right, 274 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 2: so he enlisted right out of high school, went in, 275 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 2: Actually he enlisted in high school, went through summer boot 276 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: camp in the Navy, went back to high school, graduated, 277 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: then shipped right off to Via or they would say, Vietnam, 278 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: you know, Vietnam. However, you good, whatever side of the 279 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 2: country you're from, Vietnam. Vietnam. But you know, my dad, 280 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: you know, he passed away. Agent orange was a big factor. 281 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: A lot of these guys and guys that were serving 282 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: deployed all came in contact with agent orange and all 283 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: of these different types of pesticides, and you know burn pits. 284 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: Let's talk about the burn pits that they are burning 285 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: over there right like you know, and the benefits that 286 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: these guys still deserve, if they haven't got them already, 287 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: they should still and not make them wait any longer. See, 288 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: that's the game is like for benefits and paperwork, it's like, oh, 289 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: we'll just put it six more months. Well, in six months, 290 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: Bill's going to be seventy, you know, but he's available today. 291 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 4: So like not to mention, Bill also has very likely 292 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 4: passed some of the impacts of that exposure down to 293 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 4: his kids. 294 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: And protecting his grandkids. 295 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 4: This is something I see that absolutely haunts Vietnam veterans 296 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 4: that not only did it happen to them, that they 297 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 4: may have passed the ill effects down. And so again 298 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 4: when we talk about lessons learned, I think the more 299 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 4: we can educate the general public about things that have 300 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 4: happened to our military, the more likely they will be 301 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 4: to care to support support for veterans, to invest in veterans. 302 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 2: Let alone to fight over like some muddy hill taking 303 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 2: out somebody that they never met, never got a chance 304 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: to have dinner with. Just told this is the bad guy. 305 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: The other side says, this is the bad guy. Both 306 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: sides are the good guys to themselves. Yeah, you know, 307 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: and it was such an entrenched position. Everybody had pungy 308 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 2: sticks and secret little like stabby things coming out of trees. 309 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: You know. The Vietcong and the whole Vietnamese, they were 310 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: very They knew that area, they knew their land. They 311 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: knew how to use just wood, shave it, point it, 312 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: pee on it, pungee stick, you know. 313 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 4: And they were free to fight the war anyway that 314 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 4: they grow up, right. 315 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 2: Wow. 316 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 4: The rules of engagement for the battle and bassaards and 317 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 4: others who were deployed were constantly changing, and they had 318 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 4: to try to navigate those and it's a very complex situation. 319 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 4: I think, if you know, I walk into a class 320 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 4: full of undergrads, they come in with a lot of 321 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 4: preconceived notions about the Vietnam War and about Vietnam soldiers 322 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 4: and Vietnam veterans, and it's like, you have no idea, 323 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 4: You really have no idea until you hear it from. 324 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 3: The men themselves. 325 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 4: And so that's why I just think oral history is 326 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 4: the best medium for storytelling, because you know, you don't 327 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 4: need me as your interpreter. 328 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 3: Your story comes best from you. 329 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 2: You know, I can't remember what documentary it was, but 330 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 2: it was where they you know, brought both sides together. 331 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: They're older after the war, and they just the you know, 332 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: the enemies of each other, hugged themselves. They would have 333 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: just been at each other in the war. But you know, 334 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: thirty years later, I can't remember what the documentary was. 335 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 2: It was really like kind of it's very moving again 336 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: throughout history. 337 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 4: I mean, they did that as far back as like 338 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 4: with Confederate and Union veterans of the Civil War. 339 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 3: I mean, we do see that again and again, and 340 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 3: it's like, in the moment. 341 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 4: You're not even fighting for a cause, You're fighting for 342 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 4: the man standing next to you. And yes, you've decided 343 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 4: that the people on the other side are the enemy, 344 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 4: but I mean, are they really your enemy? They talk 345 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 4: several of the narrators in the book talk about. 346 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 3: How, you know, douring. 347 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 4: Training, the Vietnamese were dehumanized, right, and that was something 348 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 4: that was a tool you had to dehumanize the enemy 349 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 4: in order to be able to go out there and 350 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 4: try to accomplish your goals. But that's not something that's 351 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 4: internalized in these veterans. It's something they were taught, they 352 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 4: were told to do and they're trying to survive. 353 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: I just think of Hamburger Hill. There's a movie that 354 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 2: was made called Hamburger Hill, and they're like, I tell you, 355 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 2: you know, it's specifically right. It's just like so brutal. 356 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 2: You know, why why do they hate that? They tell 357 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 2: you why that that they hate that movie? Is it 358 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: just too much? 359 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 3: It's too much that it's not accurate for them? Of course, 360 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 3: you know, you understand that they wouldn't be with it. 361 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 2: You know, my dad back in the eighties, UH would 362 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 2: never let me see Platoon. I was a little kid, 363 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 2: and I was always obsessed with dad's career being a 364 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: Green Beret, you know, just in like the eighties. But he, 365 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 2: I guess his friends had went and seen it, and 366 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: they just walked out of it, you know, from that 367 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 2: movie because it had just brought back a flood of 368 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 2: things that they just didn't want to have to, you 369 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 2: know remember, or it was just too much you know, 370 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: put into it. And so I mean, that's there, you know, 371 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: I've seen it now, Dad, Now what's kind of guy 372 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: they're spoken with. 373 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 4: It's more that they're like indignant that they find historical 374 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 4: inaccuracies in the film, which is you know, obviously. 375 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 3: The norm with any Hollywood spectacle, but. 376 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 4: Uh yeah, so so I just think that if anybody 377 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 4: is looking for a good read Father's Day is coming up, 378 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 4: it is. 379 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 3: A good read for a good cause because they've notned. 380 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 4: I am donating my royalties, not that there's much to 381 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 4: be made for a no name author like me, but 382 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 4: I am donating my royalties to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial 383 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 4: Fund because I don't want to make any money off 384 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 4: of again their stories or the pain. 385 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 3: That they're discussing here. 386 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 4: So you know, whatever money we raise from the book, 387 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 4: we'll go back to veterans causes. 388 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 2: That's very generous of you to capture their stories and 389 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 2: to bind them together and to put them out there 390 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: and like they're archived and you know, immortalized as long 391 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 2: as we're around on this earth, you know, publications and 392 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 2: this conversation, you know, and just talking about it just 393 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: brings more awareness because maybe somebody doesn't listen to it 394 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 2: this this next week or three weeks from now. But 395 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 2: the cool thing about our episode here is whoever's listening 396 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: to us right now is being made aware of, you know, 397 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: the battle and bastards of Bravo and yeah. 398 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 4: These stories repeat themselves again and again and again. Right, 399 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 4: we happen to tell twenty seven stories here, and. 400 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 3: We're just scratching the surface. You know. 401 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 4: I discuss in the introductory remarks to the book, like 402 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 4: why this unit, why not every unit? Like that would 403 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 4: be my goal. Look at the work, for example, of 404 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 4: the Library of Congress Veterans History Project. They actively try 405 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 4: to capture oral histories with as many veterans as humanly possible, 406 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 4: because every single one of those stories is. 407 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 3: Important, is unique, and should be told. So, you know, 408 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: if anybody has. 409 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 4: A love of veterans and wants to do some interviewing, 410 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 4: get out there, find your local veterans group, and do 411 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 4: the next book about them. 412 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 2: Because I guess what you're saying is war has DNA 413 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 2: and each one of them is a piece of that 414 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: DNA that can complete the whole position or the whole 415 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: concept of what we just witnessed or lived through. And 416 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: if one of them doesn't get that story out there, 417 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: then so someone's DNA can't connect to that DNA. So 418 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 2: it's like they need to tell their story. I don't know, 419 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: I'm just seeing it in this really kind of like 420 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: you know, and. 421 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 4: It's like, whose story gets to be told? It shouldn't 422 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 4: just be your four. 423 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 2: Star general, right right? But once who are. 424 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 4: Going to have like mass market huge biographies written about them? 425 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: Or who are going the crystal did right for them? Right? Exactly? 426 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 3: Okay, they're fine, not to take anything away from them, 427 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 3: but these grunts, as. 428 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 4: The guys would call themselves, their stories are just as 429 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 4: if not more important in my eyes because they were 430 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 4: the ones on the ground actually having. 431 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 3: To execute these missions that they're being tasked. 432 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 2: With and live there and deal with it, and you know, 433 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: and every single thing that goes along with you know, 434 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 2: what do we hear for again? 435 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 3: You know? 436 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 2: Why why is this hat? Why are we still here? 437 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 2: Has this been resolved back home? Who's wagging this dog? 438 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 4: And you know, does the four star general know what 439 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 4: it's like to be in the field drinking the water 440 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 4: that still tastes like you know, fuel because mountain tanks properly? 441 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 2: Wow? 442 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 3: You know, do they know what it's. 443 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 4: Like to be in the field and scraping the mold 444 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 4: off the brownies your girlfriend sent you because you're just 445 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 4: still so happy to eat the brownies and they're like, 446 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 4: and I could go on and on with these examples. 447 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 3: But I think that's eat the. 448 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: Mold, man, go with it. Eat the brownies. Just eat 449 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 2: the mold, you baby, Yeah, just eat it. Just eat 450 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: the whole thing. She sent you brownies from the States 451 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 2: in the sixties. Man, just eat them. 452 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 4: So, you know, I just I think there's great value there. 453 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 4: And so from you know, wearing like my academic hat, yes, 454 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 4: there's great value there. It's an educational tool I'm going 455 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 4: to teach students. 456 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 3: You're going to make them. 457 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 4: Care about the war because when you talk about, you know, 458 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 4: some fifty eight thousand killed, that's and I'm you almost 459 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 4: can't wrap your head around. But when you talk about 460 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 4: them having to carry their deceased friends off the battlefield, 461 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 4: that makes an impact on you, right the way statistic 462 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 4: might not. So from an academic perspective, the book is 463 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 4: an incredible educational tool. It's just interesting. Maybe I'm biased, right, Brad, 464 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 4: but it's it's so engrossing. And I think it's an 465 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 4: easy read too, because we've got it broken up. Each 466 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 4: chapter is dedicated to particular soldier, so you can pick 467 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 4: it up, you can put it down, you know. I 468 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 4: really I just think that your audience in particular should 469 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 4: really really enjoy it. 470 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: I would think so. And they like to read because 471 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 2: we have a book club, and that's soft rep dot 472 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 2: com forward slash book hyphen club. Get a book, read 473 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 2: a book, move the muscle of your brain, you know 474 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 2: what I mean, and you can read. You can read 475 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 2: the Battle andmbastards. You can just find that. When does that? 476 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 2: When is that? Is it out right? Now? Are we 477 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: it is? 478 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 3: Yes? It isn't. So mat started shipping the pre orders 479 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 3: a few weeks ago and then I think it was 480 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 3: April fifteenth was when it went live, and it's already 481 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: sold down at Barnes and Noble. 482 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 483 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 3: It's been selling really really well. 484 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 4: So we're very very excited about, you know, spreading the 485 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 4: word well good. 486 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: And then that gives you an opportunity for Casemate and 487 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: for anyone else in the world to say, hey, you 488 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 2: can type, you can write, you can put it all together, 489 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: and it sells out. That's really awesome and I'm really 490 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: happy because I have a lot of authors that come 491 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 2: on and hope for that kind of you know success. 492 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: You want to know a trick that I heard from 493 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 2: an author, I want to say it was Brad thor 494 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,479 Speaker 2: Or somebody Jack Carr. They said that they take their 495 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 2: book with them to the airport. Okay, if it has 496 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 2: a upiece, if it has a UPC number on the 497 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 2: back of it, okay. And if it's not in already 498 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: the gift shop at the airport, they just put it. 499 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 2: They take it to the register and they have them 500 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 2: scan it and it says out of stock, and then 501 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: you buy it from them and it's the last one, 502 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: and then they order more to put back on the shelf. 503 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 3: This is a fascinating trick. I gotta go to the 504 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:03,959 Speaker 3: airport on Sunday. 505 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: Actually, you see, So if you have your book and 506 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: if as up see, oh I'd like to get this 507 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: Battle Ambastards book. You put it right down and see 508 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: if it scans. And if it scans like, oh it's 509 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: out of stock, well you just pay for it. Deal 510 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 2: with it. Just buy it back, Okay. 511 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 3: Cut this part out. 512 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 2: It's not shady. Oh no, no, no, I'm just playing. 513 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 2: I'm just playing. I'm just playing. No, no, no no. 514 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 2: I hope it's at the airport. I hope it's already 515 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: sold out. You'll see what I'm saying. There's no shady. 516 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 2: You want to know its shady. Vietnam was shady. Okay, 517 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 2: that's what's shady. You want to know, it was shady 518 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: having the battle Ambassaards have to go to Vietnam to 519 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 2: fight for what? For each other because they are sent there. 520 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 4: That it is so interesting that you say for what, 521 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 4: Because when I talk with veterans, whether it's the guys 522 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 4: in this book or you're the upsitors that I've been 523 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 4: blessed to know through my work with the New Jersey 524 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 4: Vietnam Museum, whatever, they still have very different emotions about 525 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 4: the war, different opinions about the war. There still are 526 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 4: veterans who feel like they went there and they had 527 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 4: a good mission and they were going to stop the 528 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 4: spread of communism, and they feel that that was a 529 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 4: valid mission and they should have done it, and they 530 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 4: regret that their hands were tied by the chain of 531 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 4: command and the politicians. And then they're you know, at 532 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 4: the other end of the spectrum are veterans who say 533 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 4: that whole thing was you know, blogney. 534 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 3: And we should not have been sent there and it 535 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 3: was ridiculous. 536 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 4: But they still have a very broad range of complex 537 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 4: feelings about the war. Like you know, you said earlier, 538 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 4: there's no one monolithic Vietnam veteran. 539 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 2: No. No. And to this day, I've had the guys 540 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: coming into my shops here in Salt Lake City who 541 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 2: are veterans from Vietnam. They're old, they're bringing grandkids in 542 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So we'll always welcome them. I'll say, hey, well, 543 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 2: welcome home. Yeah, and they look at me and they 544 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 2: just kind of have a moment. I'm like, no, I 545 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 2: mean from like, you know, non bro, I don't know 546 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 2: if you've ever been welcomed home, but let me welcome 547 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: you home. And it's like twenty twenty four, you know, 548 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: And so you know, back then, it wasn't so you know, 549 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: wave the flag. It was like, you know, be mad 550 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 2: and like there was a lot of emotion in America 551 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 2: where they're like, bring them home is what they wanted, 552 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 2: you know, stop the war, bring the soldiers home. It's 553 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 2: not so much that they were what they call them 554 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 2: baby killers, because in war, it happens. That happens. Okay, 555 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: that happens. All war has that you know, unfortunate moniker 556 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 2: on it, and so you know it's inevitable. Look at 557 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: Gaza happening right now, it's completely like you said, that's 558 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 2: a number that if your students aren't understanding what fifty 559 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 2: thousand people killed is. That's who's been killed there already, 560 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: you know, compared to Vietnam respectively, is like, you know, 561 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,479 Speaker 2: what they're doing with the Israeli and Gaza war right 562 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: now is just fifty thousand people have been killed. Vietnam 563 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: fifty thousand people. But Vietnam was how long nineteen fifty four? 564 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: Really we got into it? 565 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: You want to start counting? 566 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: Yea French? The French were like, come over here, help us. 567 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 3: Food. 568 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean, like, but really like why 569 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: we got into it as the US was to help 570 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 2: the French because the Vietnamese were battling the Japanese. Am 571 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: I wrong on that? So? 572 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 4: I mean this is something I The book starts with 573 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 4: just a very very brief introduction to the war. 574 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: I mean, because there's just books of pomp books right 575 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 3: about Vietnam War. 576 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 4: But I really wanted just a very brief introduction, particularly 577 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 4: for students who didn't have a familiarity. But one of 578 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 4: the things that I discussed is how there's this initial 579 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 4: lack of understanding. 580 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: Of the long history of Vietnam. 581 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 4: The Vietnamese people had been occupied going back centuries. 582 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 3: So is it the Chinese? 583 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 2: Is it? 584 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: Then the French? Is it? Then the Japanese, and then 585 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 3: it's the French again. 586 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 4: And so there was this generations long refusal or refusal 587 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 4: to be dominated or desire for independence that I think 588 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 4: American planners completely discounted. And so there's this great saying, 589 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 4: I'm going to batch it now, but it's like about. 590 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 3: To forget it. I'm going to forget It's about a 591 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 3: tiger and an elephant, and who's going to get tired first? 592 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: Well, who gets tired first, the tiger of the elephant. 593 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 3: Well, it depends, right. 594 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 4: And so this was the idea with the North Vietnamese 595 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 4: all along was they're not going to get tired of it. 596 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 3: They're going to outweait the situation. And they knew the Americans, 597 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 3: with all of their money. 598 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 4: And you know, they're huge population, they would eventually get 599 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 4: tired of it. They would lose the will to fight. 600 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 4: That was predicted very early on, and ultimately, you. 601 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: Know, that's that's what happens. 602 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 4: Another thing I just mentioned is you talked about them 603 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 4: coming home, and yes, that phrase welcome home is so 604 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 4: important to the guys. A lot of them had different 605 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 4: experiences coming home, I found depending where they lived. So 606 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 4: if they were in the South or the Midwest, some 607 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 4: of them did get that kind of traditional welcome home 608 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 4: with the banners and such. It was more like on 609 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 4: the coasts and in the urban areas where they found 610 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 4: more strife. So that that was an interesting thing that 611 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 4: popped into my mind that I uncovered as I was 612 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 4: doing the interviews. 613 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 2: That it was kind of like different different areas had 614 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 2: different take on the situation in the war. It's crazy. Yeah, 615 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: my dad said that, you know, he attributed the fact 616 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 2: of their nutrition was one factor why the US was 617 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: able to gain you know that he felt like he fought, 618 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 2: you know, like they fought well and et cetera until 619 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: they were told not to fight otherwise and so and 620 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: so he just attributed that they were able to overcome, 621 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: you know, the enemy based on the diet because they 622 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: meat supplied and the US had like, you know, that 623 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 2: kind of ration, whereas you know, the Vietnamese would eat 624 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: just really a rice diet and like a vegetable diet. 625 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 3: You know, we're scavenge. 626 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 2: That is something that comes up in the book. 627 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 4: They would have their interpreters and guides, you know, the 628 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 4: guys will sit down and they'll get out their mrs 629 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 4: while their guides and interpreters are looking for what vegetation 630 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 4: they can eat, you know, what insights they can eat. 631 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 3: So again that's their understanding of the land. It's it's very. 632 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 4: Different when you've been picked up from Cincinnati and dropped 633 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 4: in the middle of Vietnam and told good luck. 634 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, really, you know. And so when it comes to stamina, no, 635 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 2: that just to keep the fight going, you know, it's internally, 636 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: it's just got to be fed. And so I mean, 637 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: you know, like you said, each each veteran has a 638 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: different take on their time in Vietnam. You know, for example, 639 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: like the story I have, I keep going back to 640 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: my dad. But all my guests that listen and everybody listens, no, 641 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 2: I love them so much, big part of my life. 642 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: He said that the first thing he noticed when he 643 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 2: got into Vietnam, when he knew he was in Vietnam, 644 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: was he got off the boat for the Navy to 645 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: go off this long dock to get onto the pier, 646 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 2: and there was all these sitting Indian style, he said, 647 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,479 Speaker 2: black pajamas, five hundred or so just sitting and there 648 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: was two Marines with sixties just sitting over them, and 649 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 2: they were captured Vietcong, you know, combatants that were just 650 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 2: right there at the shore. That's when he knew he 651 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: was in Vietnam. I'm sure these guys all have a 652 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 2: story that's so similar to like when I knew I 653 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 2: knew I was in Vietnam. Win. 654 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 3: I always ask. 655 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 4: Them about their first impressions, and it's always the heat 656 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 4: and the smell the first thing that kind of hit them, 657 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 4: and that's really implanted in their memory. You know, some 658 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 4: of them talk about, you know, you're getting off the 659 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 4: plane and you're getting on these buses and the windows 660 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 4: are blacked out because you know you're immediately a target 661 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 4: from the minute you hit the ground or a target, 662 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 4: and trying to acclimate yourself to that, you know, having 663 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 4: come from the safety of the States, is another thing 664 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 4: that comes up a lot. 665 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: And you know what a great question I think is like, 666 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 2: you know, these guys they get trained to do air assault. Okay, 667 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: these are airborne, one hundred and first airborne. They have 668 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: different equipment. They have like collapsible stocks on their rifles 669 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: so that they are airborne. So does they get snagged 670 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: in their shoot lines? They have just a little bit 671 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: of a difference on their equipment versus a regular infantry guy. 672 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 2: They're trained to deploy out of aircraft into hostile territory, 673 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: not Vietnam. Yeah, you know. And it's the same thing 674 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 2: with a friend of mine who's an Arctic soldier who 675 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: got deployed to Afghanistan. He's like, yeah, no, nothing like 676 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 2: you think, rad But when it was cold, I knew 677 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 2: how to stay warm. But other than that, it wasn't 678 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: like snow leopards and you know, the whole what you 679 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: think they trained for. They're just like, I can handle 680 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 2: the cold. But in Vietnam, these guys are like, I 681 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 2: guess they're supposed to be able to hit you from anywhere, 682 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 2: right the airborne. If they need to go airborne, that's 683 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 2: what they do. If not, boom huh, yeah. 684 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 4: I mean airborne becomes that they're being transported by the 685 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 4: helicopters and they're you know, in and out. But most 686 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 4: of the guys who are covered in this book just 687 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 4: spend their time marching through the jungle. They're on their feet, 688 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 4: just marching through the jungle and then apparently, you know, 689 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 4: occasionally you get picked up and you know, the chopper 690 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 4: takes you back to the rear, and if they were lucky, 691 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 4: they got to go to the beach for a day, 692 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 4: you know, and and relax the beach and have a 693 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 4: warm beer. 694 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: And you know, Vietnam, that was it. 695 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 4: But you get a day and then you know, you're 696 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 4: back out in the jungle for weeks on end. So 697 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 4: it's that unrelenting pace that I think takes as much 698 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 4: a mental as a physical toll on them. The men 699 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 4: talk a lot about their leadership. I know, you know, 700 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 4: when you're thinking about Vietnam broadly, you think of you know, 701 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 4: instances of. 702 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 3: Fracture signed or the officers getting fragged or whatever. 703 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 4: These men, for the most part, speak glowingly of their leadership, 704 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 4: and I think that was really unique and is perhaps 705 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 4: what kept them bonded for so long. 706 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 2: They just believed in who was taking them in because 707 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 2: they also went and so they're like, let's go, well, 708 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 2: you know, Melissa's our boss, and Melissa's taught us this 709 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 2: whole time, and Melissa's getting off with us off aircraft 710 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 2: and you know, you may be the lieutenant, Melissa, but 711 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: we're going to follow what lieutenant says to make sure 712 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 2: we all come back because she's trying to make sure 713 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 2: we're coming back. I'm using you as an example, by 714 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 2: the way. 715 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, they particularly there's this one officer who's call 716 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 4: sign is Viking. 717 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:53,959 Speaker 3: I don't want to give too much away. 718 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 4: Everybody's gotta read the book, right, but they all adore Viking. 719 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 4: That is something that comes across and the reason is 720 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 4: that they trust him and he is never going to 721 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 4: ask them to do anything that he himself won't do. 722 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 4: And so he's a great character who he you know, 723 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 4: we didn't get to interview him for the story, but 724 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 4: he's ever present in the book because almost every man 725 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 4: talks about how much they loved and trusted him, and 726 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 4: I think that's a great case study in how to 727 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 4: be an effective leader and what it really means to 728 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 4: display leadership under the most trying of circumstances. 729 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 2: It's incredible, Okay, battling bastards, it's out right now and 730 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 2: I would have to imagine, Okay, I read in your 731 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 2: you know breakdown that you also are at the Bruce 732 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 2: Springsteen music you know establishment there. Sorry, it's not right 733 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 2: in front of him. I'm going off of what I 734 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 2: just read, and I think it's so cool, so are 735 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 2: you still involved in Bruce Springsteen's You know, the music 736 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 2: isn't a library. 737 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 3: This book is just like a side project, like I 738 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 3: said I do. 739 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 4: I start my career as a historian working for the 740 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 4: Army and Department of the Army Civilian Historian, and then 741 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 4: when the base I worked I closed. I came to 742 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 4: this mom University and was teaching full time for many years. 743 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 4: In my role as a faculty member. We have this 744 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 4: thing that lives at mom University, the Bruce Springsteen Archives 745 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 4: and Center for American Music. We are Bruce Springstein's official repository. 746 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 2: So I would teach like a. 747 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 4: I would teach a museum's class, or I would teach 748 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 4: an archives class, and we would do projects with this 749 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 4: Springsteen Archives. So they are getting ready to build a 750 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 4: thirty thousand square foot music museum here on our campus, 751 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 4: so they pulled me over to serve as the curator 752 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 4: and help, you know, get the museum ready to open. 753 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 3: So I was in the middle of doing this book 754 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 3: when I moved into this new slot. So it was 755 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 3: a little. 756 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 4: Crazy to juggle and to get the book done on time. 757 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 4: But I was not going to disappoint these guys. So 758 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 4: we still got the book done, and I'm always finding 759 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 4: interesting ways to do military history in my current role. So, 760 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 4: for example, Bruce Springsteen's first drummer, this teenage kid, Bart Haynes. 761 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 4: He leaves Bruce Springsteen's first band, the Castiles Uh to 762 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 4: enlist in the Marines, and he's killed in Vietnam. So 763 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 4: I just did a biography an article of Bart Haynes. 764 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 3: I mean, this incredible story. 765 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 4: And then you know Bart has long been like a 766 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 4: footnote in Bruce's life. And you know, I was able 767 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 4: to interview Bart's sister and a medic who was there 768 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,320 Speaker 4: the night he was killed to to flesh out that story. 769 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 4: Or like Bruce, you know, Bruce he avoids the draft, 770 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,479 Speaker 4: but he had close friends like Bart, another guy called 771 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 4: who were killed in Vietnam, So he understood both the 772 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 4: threat of the draft and what it was to see 773 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 4: young Ben go off and be killed. And he winds 774 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 4: up from very early in his career supporting Vietnam veterans causes. 775 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 4: So there's always always a link there with the military history. 776 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 2: For me, born in the USA. Okay, Bruce is an 777 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 2: American icon, all right, he should be nurtured, And like 778 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: you're doing that with you know, preserving everything about it 779 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 2: about Bruce and all he's done. And you know, Max 780 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 2: Weinberg is a drummer for him and such a great 781 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,959 Speaker 2: a great musician, and you know, packing. 782 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 4: Max's drums up. And you said born in the USA. 783 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 4: So we have this traveling exhibit right now. It's called 784 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 4: Music America and it's like one hundred and fifty objects 785 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 4: that tell the story of American music history. And in 786 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 4: the exhibit we have some of Max's drums, we have 787 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 4: the whole Born in the USA outfit. Uh so, yeah, 788 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 4: we have addressed keeping with the Vietnam theme, I have 789 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:41,240 Speaker 4: addressed that Nancy Sinatra wore entertaining the troops in Vietnam. 790 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 2: That is so cool. I am totally staff on right 791 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 2: now because of Max Weinberg's drums, you know. Yeah, as 792 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 2: a drummer, right, so you're gonna know, you know, Max 793 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 2: has the skills, right, Yeah, love it. 794 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 3: A picture of maxis. 795 00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: Drums that is so awesome. Yeah, Bruce, you're the man too. Bro. 796 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to take away from you with Max Weinberg, 797 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 2: but geez, you know what a great what you know 798 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 2: the East Street Band? Okay, right, yeah, you. 799 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 4: Know I always tell people that it was a difficult 800 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 4: decision for me to leave my full time faculty role 801 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 4: in come service the curator here, but they expect. 802 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 3: Like fifty thousand people to come to the museum the 803 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 3: first year. 804 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think music is such. 805 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 4: I'm always looking for accessible ways to get people excited 806 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 4: about history. 807 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 3: So I think oral history, you know, telling people's stories in. 808 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 4: Their own words, is a way to get people excited 809 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 4: about history. But music is another way to get people 810 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 4: excited because music is so accessible and like, everybody likes music. 811 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 4: So if you can use music history to get people 812 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 4: excited about the past more broadly, then I think that's 813 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 4: a good thing. 814 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 2: You're awesome, that's awesome. And we've totally got. 815 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 3: Off on a tangent here. What is happening here? 816 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 2: No, this is I told you. I told you at 817 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 2: the beginning. I think you'll like the way it goes. 818 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 2: It's totally awesome, right, And so, you know, I love 819 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 2: how you juggle yourself and you're powerful and as a professor, 820 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 2: you know, as a woman in America and on this planet, 821 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,240 Speaker 2: and you know, don't let anyone ever take anything away 822 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 2: from you, and just you just keep doing what you 823 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 2: have to do, and you keep your head down and 824 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 2: you just keep moving forward and gaining ground. And I'm 825 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 2: sure that all of your battle and bastard bros that 826 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 2: are still around would agree with me, okay, And I'm 827 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 2: sure that you're in the right position to be a 828 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 2: curator for the rock and roll because a rock and 829 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 2: roll okay. And I mean, I've really been taking up 830 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,479 Speaker 2: a lot of your time. We've been talking for about 831 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 2: forty five minutes. Has just been flying by. But I 832 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 2: know that you're very busy, and I know that there's 833 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 2: a lot of folks that are wanting to have you 834 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 2: come onto their show. And I'm glad and flattered that 835 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 2: you chose us as well. And I want to say 836 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 2: thanks to Daniel for arranging everything right, So thanks Daniel. 837 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 3: Did you get enough? Were you supposed to go for 838 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 3: a full hour? 839 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you want to keep going, we 840 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 2: got it. We're not even done yet. No, it's totally cool. 841 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 2: I mean I told you the secret about the airport. 842 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 2: You didn't want to hear that, You're like, I was like, 843 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 2: that's a thirty minute, you know, tutorial on how to 844 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 2: get your book in the airport. And then I was like, 845 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 2: you know, the battle embastards. What more is there? Go 846 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 2: get your book? You know, Well, there you go. 847 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 3: That's a perfect way to end. 848 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, book people, because it's a good read for a 849 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 4: good cause, and these guys deserve to feel your love 850 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 4: and support now as they reach. 851 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:19,919 Speaker 3: You know, the end. 852 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're losing. 853 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 4: These guys at a very fast clip, and so it's 854 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 4: so important that we talk about their stories, that we 855 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 4: learn lessons from them, and that we show them our 856 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 4: love and appreciation while we still can. 857 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,839 Speaker 2: I will say this to you before we go. If 858 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 2: you know that one of them would like to come 859 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 2: on and talk to me, all right, and you say, hey, 860 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 2: I think that you would be a good fit with 861 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 2: rad On Soft Rep. You send me one of those 862 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 2: battlem bastards. Gay, Yeah, and I will put them on. 863 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 2: You could be on too if they want to have 864 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 2: you as just like a comfort zone. Whatever the case is, 865 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 2: so be it. You know now that we've become friends, right, 866 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 2: you're like, Oh, Rat's fine, don't worry about it. Come on, 867 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 2: I've bet yeah, he's vetted. He's totally five, totally five, 868 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 2: born to the USA. All right, no problem there. Well, 869 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 2: Well with that said, Melissa, thank you so much, for 870 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 2: taking time to be on the show, and to my 871 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 2: listener and to those that are just joining us for 872 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 2: the first time. You know, I hope you stick around 873 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 2: and again check out the merch store at soft reap 874 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 2: dot com. Find us on Instagram at soft rep. And 875 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 2: thanks again to Brandon Webb who runs the place, the 876 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 2: Soft Rep, and all of us out there like Callum 877 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 2: and Chris and you know April. Thanks for everybody behind 878 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 2: the scenes. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for 879 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 2: you guys believing in me to run this ship. So 880 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 2: thanks so much again, and on behalf of everybody that 881 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,320 Speaker 2: was on my show and myself and Bruce the Man. 882 00:44:42,480 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 2: What's up? I say peace use them. 883 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: Listening to a self red radio