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Speaker 1: That was fun. That was in the days before Security Week.

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Speaker 2: HeLa Reinette, Hi, Caitlin, we're in the same place.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: It's a miracle.

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Speaker 1: It's laice to see your face.

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Speaker 2: I'm back at home, thank you. It's nice to see

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Speaker 2: your face as well. Red As recommend or not. The

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Speaker 2: consensus on my Twitter whole was a big no.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's a very much wait and see situation of

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Speaker 4: how I feel later on this afternoon, but right now currently,

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Speaker 4: I feel like dog shit great, And I probably slept

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Speaker 4: forty five minutes on the plane, and I had a

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Speaker 4: guy behind me that decided that his TV channel changer

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Speaker 4: on the back of my seat was his seat and

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Speaker 4: not mine, So I didn't appreciate the tapping on the

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Speaker 4: back of my head for five hours coming from San Francisco.

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Speaker 4: Having said that, I actually feel good that I'm here

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Speaker 4: now and I can get a few things done today.

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Speaker 4: So the consensus is it's a nightmare.

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Speaker 2: It's a love hate relationship.

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Speaker 3: Sure the Red Eye, Yes, least to not lose a day, terrible,

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Speaker 3: to lose a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Sleep, but terrible.

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Speaker 2: To not lose a day, terrible, to lose sleep all

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Speaker 2: night terrible. So you were in California.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna get to that fantastic episode with a guest

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Speaker 3: host who did very well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's now twenty years of Sports Center.

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Speaker 5: She's just Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So while you were there, you as usual were calling

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Speaker 3: matches pre ESPN and on court, which is always amazing,

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Speaker 3: and you got to spend some time as you often

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Speaker 3: do with certainly the top one of the tallest pro

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Speaker 3: tennis player commentators, Pam Shrever.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'd say that she's probably the tallest female commentator.

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Speaker 2: We have definitely got at ESPN. Yes, and Pam and

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Speaker 2: I've worked together for a number of years.

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Speaker 4: I worked a lot of my early matches when I

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Speaker 4: was still playing, when ESPN had asked me if I

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Speaker 4: wanted to do a little bit of work with Pam.

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Speaker 4: So we and Pam and I go back so far.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you funny story about Pam. So there's two

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Speaker 4: stories I'd like to tell you. One is in Pam

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Speaker 4: would always open up her house to me as a

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Speaker 4: young Australian and she was playing at the time with

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Speaker 4: Liz Smiley, who was.

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Speaker 2: An Australian Devil expert and a very good.

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Speaker 4: Friend of mine, and Pam would often open up her

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Speaker 4: home if I needed a week to go and crash somewhere.

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Speaker 4: And I went and stayed at her place in Baltimore

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Speaker 4: a couple of times, and we were practice, and there

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Speaker 4: was one time where she was playing her charity event

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Speaker 4: and she'd asked me if I wanted to hit with

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Speaker 4: these two kids from California, and I said sure, And

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Speaker 4: they were two sisters and there happened to be the

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Speaker 4: names of Venus and Serena Whims, and so I went

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Speaker 4: and hit with them with Pam to warm them up

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Speaker 4: for this little charity event to Pam put on every year,

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Speaker 4: and they were coming in and I hit with Venus

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Speaker 4: and Serena and we walked off the court and Pam

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Speaker 4: said to me, what do you think?

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Speaker 2: And I said, eh, they're pretty good. I said, the little.

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Speaker 4: One's better were my exact words, I still remember this day.

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Speaker 4: And it was only because Serena always had a better

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Speaker 4: She was more technically sound than Venus.

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Speaker 1: So that's the reason why I said that.

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Speaker 4: But who would have thought, you know, twenty five twenty

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Speaker 4: seven years later, they you know, we'd be friends and

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Speaker 4: I'd be working with Pam and at ESPN and these

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Speaker 4: two would still be dominating tennis. And the other funny

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Speaker 4: story about Pam is that when I was out of

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Speaker 4: the tournament in Tokyo, when you know, we had to

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Speaker 4: pay for our own rooms once we were out of

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Speaker 4: the tournament, Pam was still in the tournament, so she

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Speaker 4: offered up to share her room with me, which had

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Speaker 4: just two single beds, and so I stayed in her room,

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Speaker 4: which was very very nice of her because that's, you know,

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Speaker 4: not many people want to share their rooms.

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Speaker 2: So I shared my room with Pam for a night or.

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Speaker 4: Two before I had to move on to my next tournament,

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Speaker 4: and I experienced my first ever earthquake. Pam striper. I

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Speaker 4: should have brought that up in the podcast, but we

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Speaker 4: literally both didn't know what was going on until we

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Speaker 4: heard the cling, cling, clankling.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever been in an earthquake,

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Speaker 2: but here the.

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Speaker 4: Clan thinkling and it's the windows for shaking, and we

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Speaker 4: both She had just gone to the bathroom actually because

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Speaker 4: she's like got insomnia, she can't sleep, so she came

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Speaker 4: back and got into bed, and then the earthquake started

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Speaker 4: and she thought I'd got up as a joke and

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Speaker 4: was shaking her bed and I said, Bam, it's an earthquake.

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Speaker 4: And she said, oh my god. She put her hand

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Speaker 4: out to me and reached out and she said, hold

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Speaker 4: my hand. And so we were standing there and we

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Speaker 4: were like lying in bed and reaching out with our

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Speaker 4: arms and we were holding hands and and our fashion correspondent.

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Speaker 2: Has just decided to come into our podcast.

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Speaker 4: But anyway, oh hello, anyway, wait, let me finish this story.

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Speaker 4: So that was my one funny, funny story of experienced

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Speaker 4: earthquakes and meeting Serena Venus Wiens.

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Speaker 2: Amazing.

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Speaker 3: All right, well, listen up for an interview with Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: What are you tap dancing down there?

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Speaker 6: All right?

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned for interview with Pam Shraver.

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Speaker 2: With guest host Chris.

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Speaker 7: All right, So here I am in San Jose, California,

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Speaker 7: the site the Mubardella, and I am joined by the

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Speaker 7: one and only Pamshriver and our guest co host for today,

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Speaker 7: Chris McKendree.

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Speaker 4: So thank you both ladies for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Chris, you were.

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Speaker 4: Taking Caitlin's spot for this particular interview, But I also

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Speaker 4: want to get a little bit from.

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Speaker 2: You about your life as well.

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Speaker 4: You want to say Hi, Hi, are you doing your

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Speaker 4: announcer voice? Are you doing your podcast voice?

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Speaker 5: Good evening, Welcome to San Jose and the podcast.

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Speaker 2: There you go. Well, thanks, thanks, Chris.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate the professionalism you're giving to the podcast. You've

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Speaker 4: already told me to yes, to dumb it down.

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Speaker 5: That's not what you're going for.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, we're going for the dumb it down. We're

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Speaker 4: going for the no educated sort of fun side. Although

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Speaker 4: actually Caitlin is very educated, so you can take her

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Speaker 4: a spot.

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Speaker 5: Okay for this.

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Speaker 1: Time, leaning all of kit Yeah, the dregsolt graduate.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Did you graduate from what? I didn't graduate from anything Australia.

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Speaker 1: I graduate from high school, which is so I guess.

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Speaker 5: A bus this part.

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Speaker 6: I mean that's what most players, Yeah, tour level players have.

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Speaker 5: Done, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was thrown into the edge of the university

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Speaker 4: of life quickly. Anyway, it's not about me. We're here

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Speaker 4: with Pam Shriver. Actually, Pammy, our podcast is trying to

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Speaker 4: get to get to know people a little bit more

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Speaker 4: about themselves and their lives and what tennis is brought

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Speaker 4: to them through their career. And I guess the first

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Speaker 4: question I want to ask you is how do you

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Speaker 4: how did your family get you into tennis?

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Speaker 1: My grandparents all played, so I'm like a third generation

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Speaker 1: tennis player. I can remember playing tennis with all of

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Speaker 1: my grandparents, particularly my grandmother's on both sides. My mom's

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Speaker 1: mom lived along. She lived in ninety six. She actually

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Speaker 1: made it through an Australian Open when ESPN had it

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Speaker 1: from start to finish and I was working, and this

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Speaker 1: is before you could record, so she would just stay

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Speaker 1: up in San Diego all night in San Diego all

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Speaker 1: night long, and I think she got a little tired,

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Speaker 1: and then she got pneumonia about a week after the

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Speaker 1: Australian Open thirteen years ago and passed away. But the

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Speaker 1: point is tennis is a great family sport and I

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Speaker 1: take a lot of pride that I can remember playing

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Speaker 1: tennis for my grandparents. I played parent child with my parents,

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Speaker 1: and now I've played a mother's son with both my boys.

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Speaker 4: Now that we have you here, Chris, I guess you

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Speaker 4: actually played tennis as well. I don't think people realize that,

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Speaker 4: and you know with our ESPN team, Like most people,

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Speaker 4: tennis is a lifelong sport. I mean you got into

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Speaker 4: it too in high school. I mean it's really important

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Speaker 4: to pass.

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Speaker 5: It along to your kids, right, it is because it is.

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Speaker 6: It's you know, it's so cliche, it's a lifelong sport,

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Speaker 6: but it totally is.

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Speaker 5: I go away from it.

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Speaker 6: For years at a time, you know, which I don't

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Speaker 6: sound crazy, but for me, growing up, I played every sport.

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Speaker 6: I was just a tomboy and played every single sport

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Speaker 6: I could. And it wasn't anni high school that tennis

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Speaker 6: became something more than just a summer sport for me,

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Speaker 6: and I started to play year round and then it led,

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Speaker 6: you know, it led to a college opportunity, and once

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Speaker 6: I started working so.

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Speaker 5: Much in television, it wasn't always in tennis, you know.

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Speaker 6: For the most part, it was the Big four sports

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Speaker 6: that I covered in the US and then working on

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Speaker 6: Sports Center for twenty years, I didn't have the time

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Speaker 6: to play a lot of tennis, but I always had

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Speaker 6: the background and the knowledge of the sport, which helped

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Speaker 6: me in broadcasting clearly to be able to talk the game.

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Speaker 1: With all of you.

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Speaker 5: But then in the past couple of years that.

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Speaker 6: I'm just working on tennis, it's actually given me time

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Speaker 6: back in my life and I was able to pick

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Speaker 6: it up and and meet a ton of new people,

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Speaker 6: and I also pushed. I shouldn't say push, that's the forward.

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Speaker 6: I exposed my kids to it instantly, and we all

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Speaker 6: play as a family now, and you know, it's still

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Speaker 6: it's a milestone. I don't know if can your sons

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Speaker 6: beat you yet.

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Speaker 1: If my fourteen year old and I were to play,

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Speaker 1: he would beat me now, But they are a little reddish,

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Speaker 1: and to play, I must want to loose to you well,

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Speaker 1: just in case I have a good day, I guess,

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Speaker 1: and my underarm serve throws them off a little bit.

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Speaker 5: But I find that with my kids.

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Speaker 6: My fifteen year old, he doesn't play as much as

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Speaker 6: he did, but when he played tournaments, shot for shot,

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Speaker 6: he could definitely beat me. You know, it just hit

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Speaker 6: such a bigger ball, and they learned it with so

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Speaker 6: much spin. As we talked about, our kids have gotten

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Speaker 6: into the sport with the smaller balls and the smaller rackets,

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Speaker 6: and but I could still construct better points there.

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Speaker 1: You go keep the ball and play cut down the

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Speaker 1: four stairs like the good old days exactly.

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Speaker 5: But it's fun, so that's yeah.

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Speaker 6: So anyway, we stayed into it, and I'm still into

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Speaker 6: it as a you know.

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Speaker 5: As a mom.

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Speaker 4: So sixteen years of age, you make the finals of

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Speaker 4: the US Open.

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Speaker 2: What was that moment?

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Speaker 1: Like, well, it was it was quite the summer, because.

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Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, I just wanted sixteen, like that's.

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Speaker 1: And I and I was a serf alier. It's about

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Speaker 1: the same height. I am now much thinner. I had

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Speaker 1: gotten that summer the finals of the sixteen Internationals, lost

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Speaker 1: to Tracy Austin in the finals, got a silver ball.

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Speaker 1: Played the eighteen and Internationals in Philadelphia, lost in the finals.

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Speaker 1: Tracy Austin got a silver ball. And I'd played just enough.

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Speaker 1: This is a different ranking system. It was on an

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Speaker 1: average of fewer tournaments, and I'd played just well enough

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Speaker 1: from January when I was fifteen and a half January

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Speaker 1: of seventy eight, I snuck in. There were a few injuries.

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Speaker 1: I snuck in as the sixteenth seed, which, as we

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Speaker 1: all know, if you have seeding protection, that was back

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Speaker 1: in the day. It was sixteen seats, so I actually

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Speaker 1: had a really good draw. But I've played well in

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Speaker 1: My breakthrough win was in the Semis over Navratalova, who

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Speaker 1: had just come off winning her first of eighteen Grand

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Speaker 1: Slam singles titles.

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Speaker 5: Was that your first professional tournament.

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Speaker 1: No no. I had started in the Virginia Slims of Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C in my home area as the local wild

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Speaker 1: card qualifier, so I played all the other local female

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Speaker 1: players that wanted to gain that. It's like a wildcar

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Speaker 1: held out for a local player. And I beat Pam

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Speaker 1: te Garden and lost to Virginia reseeech. So that started

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Speaker 1: my professional career. I got the Semis of Virginia Sins

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Speaker 1: of Dallas, which is a similar level to say, this

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Speaker 1: premier event here in San Diego.

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Speaker 4: We've done that with the fact that you said San

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Speaker 4: Diego means that you're never going to leave that down

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Speaker 4: now on this post.

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Speaker 1: Fine, fine, we've done it all week. Someone as would

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Speaker 1: bring it to the podcast. But one another one of

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Speaker 1: my big moments early was my second tournament was in Columbus, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: so I had to start in pre qualifying. I got

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Speaker 1: through pre qualifying, qualifying into the main draw. So now

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Speaker 1: I'm been in Columbus a week. This is in the

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Speaker 1: end of January and seventy eight, and then my parents

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Speaker 1: let me stand missus second week of school and ended

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Speaker 1: up I was a number I was a number two

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Speaker 1: seat and I don't still understand how I was seated

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Speaker 1: in my second professional event, but the rules back in

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Speaker 1: seventy year was a little.

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Speaker 2: Different, was it murky?

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Speaker 6: Uh?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 1: To me, I was like, how can I have an average?

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Speaker 1: But they averaged out my second round Virgina since washing DC,

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Speaker 1: which is a pretty high level tournament, and then I

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Speaker 1: ended up winning. I ended up winning Columbus, which was

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Speaker 1: the same as like a Tier three, Tier four or

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Speaker 1: a two fifty level event.

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Speaker 6: When you would go back to school after playing these tournaments,

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Speaker 6: what was it like for you, well and just seeing

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Speaker 6: the other kids. I mean, there wasn't the TV coverage

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Speaker 6: that there is.

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Speaker 5: Did everybody understand no?

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Speaker 2: Social media?

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Speaker 1: Actually US opened in seventy eight. This was a tennis

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Speaker 1: boom years I played. I lost to Christy in the finals.

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Speaker 1: Our match was held over a day because she didn't

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Speaker 1: finish her semis beating Wendy Turmule of Australia until Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Mine was I beat Martina on the Friday, so we

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Speaker 1: played Sunday at four o'clock, which is always reserved through

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Speaker 1: the years for the men's final, but we actually started

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Speaker 1: at four o'clock. To follow us was Connor's Borg, so

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Speaker 1: it was Everett Drever Connor's Borg and in the late

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Speaker 1: seventies that was really the boom time of tennis. So

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Speaker 1: I can tell you CBS had really good ratings for

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Speaker 1: that US Open. So it changed my life in a week.

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Speaker 1: And I went back to school the next day because

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Speaker 1: school started the second week of the Open, so if

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Speaker 1: it usually does. And first off, I'm in an adolescence,

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Speaker 1: I'm sixteen. I was embarrassed. Partly I had to speak

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Speaker 1: in front of like eleven hundred students out on the

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Speaker 1: front lawn. I went to a K through twelve independent school,

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Speaker 1: McDonough's School, and I can remember the head master introducing me,

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Speaker 1: and I had to talk to everybody about my experience

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Speaker 1: that was more nerve wracking, like they even liked that

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Speaker 1: in the background.

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Speaker 2: Well they thought that was a funny story.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't like Show and tell, but your ion

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Speaker 1: shell and tell, well, show and tell. And I was

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Speaker 1: going into my senior year, which I combined with my

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Speaker 1: junior year. I took a summer school course because I

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Speaker 1: knew I wanted to get on the tour.

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Speaker 2: This was in the era where it was a sprint.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we already get out there quickly. And Tracy also

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Speaker 1: my peer, was already out playing pro tennis, so I,

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Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to get get out there.

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Speaker 2: We've discussed that run at the USI bid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Life changed. Who are your idols growing up? My

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Speaker 1: idols and Christal appreciate this, maybe you two, because my

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Speaker 1: idols growing up in Baltimore was an amazing sports city

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Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies. They got the Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: and lost a crushing defeat to Joe Namath's Jets in

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Speaker 1: sixty nine. I was seven. That was the first sporting

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Speaker 1: event I remember crying over. We also lost to the

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Speaker 1: Mets in sixty nine in the World Series, and I

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Speaker 1: can remember the sixty eight Mexico City Games. I can

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Speaker 1: remember Wan Carlos and Tommy Smith. I lived in Baltimore,

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Speaker 1: which was you know, it had an inner city with

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Speaker 1: a lot of turmoil in sixty eight. I was only

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Speaker 1: six years of age, but we had our like someone

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Speaker 1: like my second mom almost was an African American woman.

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Speaker 1: We called her Bubba, and she lived in Baltimore City

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Speaker 1: and we were often afraid in nineteen sixty eight. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: all of these things were actually more influential to me

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Speaker 1: than tennis players. Yes, I mean probably Billy Jing King

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Speaker 1: in seventy three when I was eleven. That was probably

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Speaker 1: the first time or something really impactful hit me on

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Speaker 1: the tennis court was the battle in the Sexers match

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Speaker 1: in seventy three.

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Speaker 6: Really, I can totally appreciate that because I grew up

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Speaker 6: in Philadelphia and I'm just enough years behind Pam to remember,

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Speaker 6: meaning younger.

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Speaker 1: To remember the great.

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Speaker 6: Sports teams of Philadelphia that influenced me probably to be

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Speaker 6: a sportscaster. And you know, we had the championship at

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Speaker 6: my stage was you know, I had Doctor J and

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Speaker 6: Moses Malone and the seventy six ers were great and

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Speaker 6: won titles. In the early eighties, I had the Phillies

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Speaker 6: with I mean, I could name.

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Speaker 5: It's weird. I sometimes people ask me, how did you

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Speaker 5: know enough about sports?

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Speaker 6: And I can't even remember when I didn't know which

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Speaker 6: teams were in which divisions, you know, which position was

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Speaker 6: everything on every field in every sport.

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Speaker 5: I just remember, you know, Ron Jaworski and Eagles.

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Speaker 6: We went to the Super Bowl with him, the Phillies.

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Speaker 6: I had Mike Schmidt and brag Luzinski and I even

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Speaker 6: this crazy guy Bake McBride with a huge hair and

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Speaker 6: Steve Carlton.

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Speaker 5: And so it's if you grew up in a big.

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Speaker 6: City in the States where your sports teams were successful.

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Speaker 6: We didn't have young female athletes to look up to.

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Speaker 6: But if you loved sports and competition and just playing athletics,

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Speaker 6: you ended up just following the four professional major sports

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Speaker 6: that were in your city. And for me loving basketball

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Speaker 6: as much as I did, I also had Big five

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Speaker 6: basketball in Philadelphia, and Villanova went to the championship and

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Speaker 6: won it in eighty five, and that was huge.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Philly colleges, I made my pro debut. Now,

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Speaker 1: remember the first year and a half I played, I

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Speaker 1: was an amateur or fifth teen months. So I turned

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Speaker 1: pro at the Palaistra Pilestra. I say, I've always said

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Speaker 1: it wrong.

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Speaker 5: It's the get there get a lot of gym on

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Speaker 5: Penn's campus.

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Speaker 6: But it's I mean, I call it a gym. It's

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Speaker 6: not it's a stadium, but it's so small. It is

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Speaker 6: the greatest.

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Speaker 2: Gym in America.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's when you played your what there, I

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Speaker 1: made first check I ever earned, So I was.

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Speaker 5: I declared hosted a tennis tournament.

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Speaker 1: Yea the Virginia slums of Philadelphia was actually a cornerstone.

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Speaker 4: I think I remember I played there once, might have

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Speaker 4: been play the Spectrum by the time I got there.

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Speaker 1: I also, I feel like I worked with you on

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Speaker 1: maybe a broadcast when it was at Villanova for a

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Speaker 1: couple of years before it was sold. But anyway, Philly

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Speaker 1: was like DC, like a lot of the indoor stops

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Speaker 1: that led to Madison Square Garden. It's one of tho stops.

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Speaker 1: So that's where I turned pro. I want a three

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars check. I lost in a quarterfinals. I think

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Speaker 1: I'd beat Carrying Red, but that was my first check

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Speaker 1: three grand.

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Speaker 2: That was a lot back in.

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Speaker 4: Actually, so what what do you feel like? You know,

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Speaker 4: as far as when you were playing, what do you

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Speaker 4: feel like the toughest thing was for you back then

390
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Speaker 4: on a sort of weekly basis on tour because you

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Speaker 4: think about what the kids have to deal with now with.

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Speaker 2: Social media and all this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And staying healthy. Keep in mind, keep in mind right

394
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Speaker 1: on we talked about a little bit on the broadcast today.

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Speaker 1: You know how much I relied on my surf. It

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Speaker 1: was a corner stone on my game. Your speed was awful.

397
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Speaker 1: My speed was awful, and your temperament it was a challenge.

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Speaker 5: Your temperament was really a court.

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Speaker 4: We were just looking at some old video of you

400
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Speaker 4: where you got passed by a backhand passing shot from

401
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Speaker 4: Chris Evatt, and you were upset at the line call

402
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Speaker 4: and instead of just letting it go, you.

403
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Speaker 2: Rolled on the ground, on the ground. You fell on

404
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:49,879
Speaker 2: the ground and rolled.

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Speaker 1: I had so many of these moments that I couldn't

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Speaker 1: possibly remember this particular.

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Speaker 4: You were so upset that you wanted to let them

408
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Speaker 4: know that they probably fucked the call up, but you

409
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Speaker 4: rolled on the ground just to make it well.

410
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Speaker 1: We didn't have the challenge system.

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Speaker 4: How much stress would you have been relieved on you

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Speaker 4: if you had the challenge system?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. I probably would be one of

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Speaker 1: these impulsive players that would make too many early in

415
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Speaker 1: a set and then hopefully learned from it. But I

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Speaker 1: think all of us wished we could have maybe could

417
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Speaker 1: have had it, but the game evolves. I'm grateful that

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Speaker 1: I played in an era where a lot of the

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Speaker 1: original nine players were still playing, like Rosie Casaladz, Billie,

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Speaker 1: Jean King, Carrie Melville Reid. I missed. Margaret Cordag just retired,

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Speaker 1: which you know, she still is the most amount of

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Speaker 1: any female that she was the only one that had retired.

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Speaker 1: Everyone else was still playing.

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Speaker 2: In seventy eight, what was one of the toughest moments

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Speaker 2: of you agree?

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Speaker 1: I had seven match points in a final playing Wendy

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Speaker 1: Turnbull in White City, Sydney on my favorite surface grass.

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Speaker 1: Actually today we had a match we called it was

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Speaker 1: pretty windy, but remember White City had a crossberry. It

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Speaker 1: was crazy. Oh yeah, So I had seven match points

431
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Speaker 1: and I lost, and I had That was a big tournament,

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Speaker 1: That was the lead up tournament to the Australian Open,

433
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Speaker 1: and I lost. That That was just It wasn't a

434
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Speaker 1: major tournament loss, but for some reason, losing seven match

435
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 1: points in a final really hurt. I was glad A

436
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Speaker 1: couple of years later I was able to win Sydney,

437
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Speaker 1: so that was good. It wasn't quite as dramatic as

438
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Speaker 1: Nembotna going back to win when Wimbledon, darn it. But

439
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Speaker 1: as far as major losses, probably I had a couple

440
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Speaker 1: of impactful ones early in my career at Wimbledon, then

441
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Speaker 1: I think changed my mental confidence. I had match points

442
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Speaker 1: on Billaging King in nineteen eighty and everyone thinks, well,

443
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: Bilaging was already like over the hill. She had the semis.

444
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: In two and eighty three she had the semis and

445
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 1: she was close to forty. She was always a tough

446
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: out on grass, and I didn't put that away. In

447
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and then my first Wimblind, I had set

448
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 1: in five two on Sue Barker on center court, my

449
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: first time ever playing center court, and Sue Barker was

450
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: a top four player. It was great Britain's sweetheart and

451
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: she wasn't as good in seventy eight. But I lost

452
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 1: that match from a set in five too. So you've

453
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: forgotten about it all, no, you know, especially at Wimbledon's

454
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 1: because because grasscourse. I know, I know, but it's like

455
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: I remember, like my my string broke up set in

456
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 1: five too. I only broke like three racket. I was

457
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: going to say, how did I don't know. I don't

458
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: know spin, I didn't have tosspin, and I don't think

459
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: I broke one all year long. This is like I

460
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,439
Speaker 1: played with the Prince racket. That was the other different

461
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: thing about when I started playing seventy eight. I was

462
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: the first oversize. Cro was before the Prince Pro. No,

463
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: it was the Prince. It was a Prince classic. Yeah,

464
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: it was the Green had the green throat.

465
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 5: I had the Prince Pro in college.

466
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 2: It was like black and gold.

467
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah, that was my second Prince. You've you've

468
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: gotten rid of a few princes then, and a few princes.

469
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,479
Speaker 2: To get to your princess, princess, and we don't have

470
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 2: to You're going to get to your princes later.

471
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

472
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 4: So Chris and I just watched another video of Chris

473
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 4: Ever on David Letterman and she was talking about out

474
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 4: the time that you and Chris lost to the bush Sons.

475
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, jeb and were you trying?

476
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 1: Yes, this was in seven. This was in nineteen eighty nine,

477
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: which was the first year that I fell out of

478
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: the top ten for the first time in almost ten years.

479
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: I had it was burned out. I was literally burnout.

480
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: And Chrissy it was her year she retired. We were

481
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: both burned out. But I had introduced her to the

482
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: Bushes in like when he was vice president in like

483
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 1: eighty six before she started dating Andy, after her first

484
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: marriage was to John Lloyd was over and she was

485
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: in a funk and I said, hey, I've got this

486
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: great invitation to go down to have we tried to dinner. No, no,

487
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to set her out. I just wanted

488
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: to get her out of get that friend, like you

489
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: just want to get her out of funk. I said,

490
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: come on, I got invited to go down to the

491
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: Naval Observatory, the Vice President's house. They're having a Chinese

492
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,479
Speaker 1: dinner for the Ambassador of China.

493
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 3: Oh but.

494
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: It was President in late Barbara Bush they were hosting

495
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: because he, of course was the ambassador to China before

496
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: he ever became a CIA director. And then you know,

497
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: he had this outrageous career and he loved tennis. So

498
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: one of the things that I love about tennis. Also

499
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: we talked started this thing about family. Were the people

500
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: in my life that I was able to play tennis with,

501
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: like now the current Emperor of Japan when he was

502
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,239
Speaker 1: crown prince. One of my favorite doubles matches was I

503
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: played with the Emperor of Japan against.

504
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: Against Emperor of Japan, not the Prime Minister of Japan.

505
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: The closest thing to God, it's basically God in Japan.

506
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: Now he met his wife, by the way, at the

507
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: tennis club. And they've been married for you know, forever

508
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: in the Empress. But so against.

509
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 2: George, you could meet God at the club, the tennis club.

510
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: So anyway, we beat George Schultz who was Secretary of State,

511
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: and George Bush, who was then vice president, and and

512
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: the and the Crown Prince was about and the and

513
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: God five four.

514
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 6: She's still dodging the question, even though you might have

515
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 6: been in a slump.

516
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, going back to that match player, No, you know

517
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: Marvin Bush. First off, Marvin's kind of the son that

518
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: people don't know as much.

519
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: That's why jib and who was the.

520
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: Other Marvin Marvin. Marvin played, He would be considered like

521
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: probably a five point five player on the rating scale

522
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: or really good. Yes, he had a huge serve. Both boys,

523
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: both men were about six foot three six foot four.

524
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: And we played in the Senate indoor it rains. We

525
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: couldn't play on the White House outdoor slower court. We

526
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: had to play on this beast. We couldn't break that.

527
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: We never broke their surf, and then I think, I

528
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: don't know who dropped there, So we lost six four

529
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: in the christ she's not here.

530
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 5: We laughed because and we know how Christy is.

531
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 6: She in the interview with Letterman said she wasn't really

532
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 6: sure she even enjoyed her night at the White House, instance.

533
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 5: Because she couldn't get over a loss.

534
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: Not competitive or anything. No, you and I both played

535
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: on that senate tennis court.

536
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great chord.

537
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: I got to keep those secrets to myself, Chris.

538
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: That'll be on our podcast when we interviewed.

539
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 4: I've played with a certain senator on those course, but

540
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 4: they like to keep it on the down low because

541
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 4: they don't really want to publicize that they have a

542
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 4: tennis court.

543
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: In the center.

544
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 5: Someone invade me.

545
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: I bet it was a New York center.

546
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: I don't know anyway, Well, so there you go.

547
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 4: Well I was going to ask you about your toughest losses,

548
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 4: and then that actually might be the toughest loss that Yeah, anyway,

549
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: it wasn't a professional.

550
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: If I had lost to you, that would have been

551
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: my toughest.

552
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 4: No, you did lose to me, and actually talking about

553
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 4: losing to singles, let's talk about you losing to me

554
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 4: the one time. Because there's only ever been officially one

555
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 4: person that has not shaken my hand after a loss.

556
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: Met me off was this in Oska.

557
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 2: No, missus, did you not do it in Osaka as well?

558
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: You did not shake my hand in Birmingham, England.

559
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: You know what? I don't remember. Yes, she ticked me

560
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: off a couple times on the court. I know it's

561
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: hard to believe. What would you do?

562
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: I just play, just be me.

563
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: But so let me tell you. Let me tell you.

564
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: I got into trouble in Birmingham a couple of times.

565
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: I wont see how she's avoiding this singles four times. No,

566
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 1: but I don't remember that situation. But one time I

567
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: was planning anyway my gold medal doubles partner Xena Garrison.

568
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: It's probably around the same era as I got later

569
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: in my career. I got even grumpier, and I've got

570
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: what I go ahead? Do you tell you?

571
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: So?

572
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you two quick Birmingham stories. And I

573
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: we were moved to the indoor courts. I had a

574
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: stress fracture in my foot, and so I went from

575
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: a grass court where it fell okay, to a hard

576
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: indoor court because it rained as it did back in

577
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: the often eighties and nineties. And I said something under

578
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: my breath that had nothing to do in my mind

579
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: about race. But Xena Garrison, her ex husband, interpreted something

580
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: I said as being racist and then it was blasted

581
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: all over the papers. So that was really more upsetting

582
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: to me. That happened in Birmingham. And then another time

583
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: I was playing Rachel McQuillan, this is a classic.

584
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: This is a classic.

585
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: So we're on an outside court in Birmingham. This is

586
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: after I've already wanted it four times. I'm trying to

587
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: hang onto my career but it's not going all that well.

588
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: I've probably didn't shake Stubpsy's hand the year before. So

589
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: Rachel mccuillan from Australia, I'm winning this match. I'm up

590
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: a break, maybe for one. It rains come, so we

591
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: go inside for two to three hour delay, come back

592
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: out and she gets out there first and takes my

593
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: chair and the side I was sitting on. Takes my

594
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: chair and sits down and puts her stuff there. And

595
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: I said, nahuh, that's my chair. I was up for one.

596
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: I wanted that chair. Things were going fine for me.

597
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: I told her, you need to go back to your chair.

598
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: She didn't get up, So what I did is I

599
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: went around, got her chair and I moved it right

600
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: beside where my chair was, so we sat on the

601
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: side and then true story, I was there. I watch

602
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: the whole everyone came out.

603
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 4: It was the most popcorn moment I think I've ever

604
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 4: experienced in my life. She's picking up the chair, she's

605
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 4: picking it over there, she's sitting literally was sitting next

606
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 4: to one another on the change over.

607
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: And then I can look I had That's where I said,

608
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: I said to you today, I've had many a moment's

609
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: I'm not proud of not shaking Stubsy's hand. Make amends.

610
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: I believe in making amends. I'm making amends and that's

611
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: something that I would not have been mature enough to

612
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: do at the time, but now I am.

613
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: Twenty years later, she shaking my hand.

614
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 5: Did you ever talk about it with Rachel?

615
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: I don't think so, but I did. She was one

616
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: of my last wins at Wimbledon, which was very satisfactory

617
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: that I didn't lose at Birmingham that time, because these

618
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: are players a lot younger than me, you know, I

619
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: like finished. I sort of limped in at like thirty

620
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: four or thirty five, my last match I was. I

621
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of singles wins the last five

622
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: six years in my career.

623
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: Okay, so you had a lot of singles wins. You

624
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: were a great singles player, but you were did you

625
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: look up how many?

626
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 7: No?

627
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: I didn't.

628
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: Sorry, can I tell.

629
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 5: You to tell me?

630
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: Over six hundred and twenty a lot singles?

631
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, Pa was.

632
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: All to her level. That is if padding. Okay, let's

633
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: not give sorry, I got to promote. If you're on

634
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: a podcast, little promoting, wow, senior prices.

635
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 5: But you you know what I'm thinking. If you don't mind, no,

636
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 5: I don't.

637
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: You are my co host today?

638
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, well we're talking about you know, Venus playing here.

639
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 5: She was going for her fiftieth career title.

640
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 6: She is thirty eight years old, she's been playing for

641
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 6: twenty four years. On and on it goes, and yet

642
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 6: she doesn't have many more singles wins than that.

643
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: She has eight hundred. Remember when you said it the

644
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: other day. I want to say, well, that's only I

645
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: almost said to you, well that's only two hundred more

646
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: than me. But I mean she's playing. But you know

647
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: why because you played more tournaments. We played more back

648
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: in the day. She had that year with the Chagrins

649
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: where she lost a year she's had some injuries, and

650
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: to be honest, you know, it's not like Venus hasn't

651
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: been the most consistent over that long haul. I mean

652
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: someone like Namutalova. That's why I always bring up how

653
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: many singles, I mean career wins she had, like like

654
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 1: it's like overse sixteen hundred in both singles and doubles.

655
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: These are things that are just crazy anyway.

656
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 4: So well, speaking of Martina, how did that come about?

657
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: The doubles combinations?

658
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: So in nineteen eighty, I'm eighteen and I'm playing the

659
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: US Open with Betty Stova, who had been to Wimbland

660
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: finals in seventy seven, losing to Virginia Wade, losing all

661
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: three finals. You can imagine that day. And so she

662
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: was a good doubles player, a little erratic. She was

663
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: playing her last tournament, her last tournament, and we got

664
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: the finals and we lost to Billy Geena Martina six

665
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: and six. The only reason I and this was two

666
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: years after I beat Martina in the Semis of singles.

667
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: So a month later, I'm playing in Florida, Delray Beach area,

668
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: Deerfield Beach and I get a the tour director comes out.

669
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: This years before cell phones, Martinez on the phone for you,

670
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, I dropped everything I was doing.

671
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: The only thing they wouldn't have come out was if

672
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: I was playing a match, he wouldn't have said, Martinez

673
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: on the phone, can you come in? I dropped everything.

674
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: I ran and she was there. It was the phone

675
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: hanging the way it was picked.

676
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: It up on the wall.

677
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: No, it was on the tour director's desk, and she

678
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: asked me if i'd start playing doubles with her. And

679
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: you can imagine how long it took me to say

680
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: I didn't have a partner, so I didn't have to

681
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: drop anybody. Betty was retiring. I never have to find

682
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: that out, do I? But probably? I mean, as far

683
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: as business decision of business decision, you'd have to just say, look,

684
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,239
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but Martinez just asked me to play. So

685
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: we started Virginia's Yeah, Virginia Sims of Cincinnati in January

686
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: of eighty one, and we lasted the best part of

687
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: ten eleven years.

688
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a couple of questions on the double thing.

689
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: One, you had that incredible streak going and then you

690
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 4: lost it in the finals of Wimbledon. Against believe, Liz

691
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: smiling Kathy George.

692
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: Was it was it, as you know, as annoying or

693
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: as was it relief or was it just absolutely annoyance?

694
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 6: Like?

695
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: What was it? Was it?

696
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: It was pretty good. It was pretty crushing. We'd won

697
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: four Wimbledon's in a row. We hadn't lost in two

698
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: years and two months, we'd won one hundred and nine

699
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: straight and we were up. We were up a break

700
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: in the final set.

701
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: Ship I didn't know.

702
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when you're up a break in a final

703
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: set and you're Navratil oven S Triver, we never thought

704
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: we'd lose a match. But as you know from knowing

705
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: Liz as well as you know she had one of

706
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: the best four hands, and Kathy Jordan was one of

707
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: the few players of that era that would not be

708
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: intimidated by never till she could be. So they flipped

709
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: it around, they broke us, and then it was just like, uh,

710
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: it was just so tight. And then in the end,

711
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, no matter who you are, you're fortunate to

712
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: go over two years without losing a match. And most

713
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: of that time she was number one in the world

714
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: in singles all of that time, and I was somewhere

715
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: between three and six in the world. So when you

716
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: think about our doubles record, it's not just that, but

717
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: it was how many singles matches you were both winning

718
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: at the same time.

719
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 4: So actually that brings me to a question because I've

720
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,959
Speaker 4: I've talked about this recently about the doubles only players

721
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 4: now on tour, and I mean, listen, I played till

722
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 4: last thirty in singles and then I played The last

723
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 4: ten years of my career really was doubles only. But

724
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 4: I played singles till I was thirty. Nowadays you've seen

725
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 4: girls and women turning to doubles only at twenty one

726
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 4: twenty two. People forget in our era, and I don't

727
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: want to sound like I'm, you know, harping on that

728
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 4: people aren't great now, But in our ear everybody played

729
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 4: singles and doubles.

730
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: Everyone.

731
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 4: I didn't think about the finals that I want. At Wimbledon,

732
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 4: one was against Kim Kleiss. She was playing singles. I

733
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 4: played doubles against her. I mean Isugu Yama, Natalie Torzia,

734
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 4: Jana Votna, Ranchas Sanchez. They were the dominant doubles teams.

735
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 4: Natasha's verover Jiji Fernandez. They were all mostly top twenty,

736
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 4: Stephie and Gabby one of Wimbledon doubles.

737
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: Title early before Stephi is playing singles and double.

738
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 6: That's why, that's why, Yeah, William see the Williams sisters

739
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 6: play doubles with each other and it's usually just with

740
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 6: each other.

741
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 5: That's what's so exciting about them. Or even this year

742
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 5: at Wimbledon, to watch Victoria Zarenkaz say, okay.

743
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 6: I'll play mixed with Jamie Murray and one you're reminded

744
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 6: of what a great Arcourt player she is when you

745
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 6: see her play doubles. But it's so exciting to see

746
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 6: these players. Look at the Labor Cup last year, the

747
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 6: idea of watching Roger and Rafa played doubles together.

748
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 5: It was an absolute expectacle.

749
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: Martina and Chrissy they won a major doubles title together.

750
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 5: Imagine if we saw that nowadays.

751
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 3: But I.

752
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 5: Know what happened.

753
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: The money is.

754
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 6: Well, it was a business decision. Almost like what Pam said, It's.

755
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: Got port was playing singles and doubles.

756
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: She won this.

757
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: She won the doubles and the singles at Wormalton the

758
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: year that she beat Stephie. What year was that?

759
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 4: Ninety nine when the singles and the doubles that year,

760
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 4: So another lindsay cut back on it because of the injuries.

761
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 4: But wouldn't it be nice to be seeing these singles

762
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 4: players playing a little more doubles.

763
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 6: It would be, except they don't want to risk the

764
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 6: money they could lose in singles if they're tired or

765
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 6: beat up. Maybe they don't want to go into these

766
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 6: Grand Slam tournaments with the doubles partner, knowing if I

767
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 6: get to quarters or semis, I'm going to pull out

768
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 6: of that doubles tournament, and then you're leaving somebody hanging

769
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 6: out there.

770
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: Well, because the money was so extreme, you know Open tennis,

771
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: when Open ten we're celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of Open Tennis.

772
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: The founders of Open Tennis, they were obviously the ones

773
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: that did the prize money split, which was controversial, not

774
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: just because it was gender you know, so male dominated,

775
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: but it was also dominated towards singles. So that started

776
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: the journey towards very top heavy and very yes.

777
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 5: It's very top heavy.

778
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 6: I mean it's it's you know, these Grand Slams keep

779
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 6: raising the prize money great and now the US Open

780
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 6: champions getting three and a half million dollars or four

781
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 6: million dollars or whatever it is. What about we talk

782
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 6: about this the people who are in qualities, first round winners,

783
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 6: second round winners, and you know, some of the money

784
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 6: has to flow down a little bit.

785
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's I mean when we but that

786
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 4: doesn't make headlines.

787
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 6: Making headlines is all in for formula making.

788
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: Over forty thousand for the first round. So I mean

789
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: that in a s phone.

790
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: That's how much Martina and I would split when we

791
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: would win a Grand Slam doubles.

792
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I mean it's not like the money's

793
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 4: not you know, amazing, all right, So I want a

794
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 4: transition a little bit into I mean, we can go

795
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 4: back to the maybe I could talk to you about

796
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: a million.

797
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: Things, but how did you transition into broadcasting?

798
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 4: Because we are here together, the three of us covering

799
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 4: this stona, which is really nice at the three women

800
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 4: are he covering a women's event.

801
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: So was seventeen years of age. It was the year

802
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: Borg beat Tanner in the finals of Womlan for his

803
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: I think third or fourth in a row. And I

804
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: was actually asked to do a radio broadcast back to

805
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: the States with Bob Mansbach who had Golden Gators production.

806
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: So that was the first broadcast I ever did was radio,

807
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: and believe it or not, in nineteen eighty one and

808
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm just nineteen. But there was something in seventy eight

809
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: when I got the finals with all the media and

810
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: the way I handled myself, I think it planted seeds.

811
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, because it wasn't like I was shopping

812
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: around looking for a second job or another job. But

813
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: I was asked by CBS. This is before they had

814
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: Mary Carillo or they had any female. They had a

815
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: rotation of like Billy, Jean King, Virginia Wade, Rosie sometimes

816
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: maybe Rosie if I would join the broadcast if I

817
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: wasn't in the ingles anymore. I did it quite a

818
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: bit when.

819
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 4: Basically was singles, then doubles and then I do a

820
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 4: little bit broadcasting one.

821
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I took you know what. It ended up

822
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: being a really good decision. I worked quite a few.

823
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes they show like this first Steffie groff Namutulova one

824
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: that went seven to six in the in the third

825
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: I forget before they had the roof and they do

826
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: like CBS when CBS still had it, they do a

827
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: rebroadcast of a great pass match, Like, oh my god,

828
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 1: I was on that match. I totally forgot, but I could.

829
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: See that being excellent television.

830
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 6: Look at you know how exciting it is for us

831
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 6: at Wimbledon if one of our guests comes in and

832
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 6: there happens to be a match on and we bring

833
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 6: the match up.

834
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 5: I mean I.

835
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 6: Felt like I commentated two games with Roger Feederer this

836
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 6: year at Wimbledon.

837
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: You were a good team, by the way, well.

838
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I had to carry them, yeah, but I mean,

839
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 6: how great was that to listen to Roger talk about

840
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 6: I think it was the Karlovich match.

841
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's talking about his few and it was his

842
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: fincher And.

843
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 5: What is it like to play against carlavi.

844
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: Struff I think strucks cheh Struff.

845
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 5: I ended up beating him.

846
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 6: And anyway, so I could imagine if you're a TV

847
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 6: producer and you can get a current player to come

848
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 6: off the court and into the broadcast booth at.

849
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: All well, and we know, like having Bethening on our

850
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: team in the last twelve months, when you have current

851
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: information and you know what it's like to try and

852
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: hold serve against n Abratalova or try and face the

853
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: graph fourhand at the time, so so. But then the

854
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: first time ESPN asked me to work was that when

855
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 1: I lost early at the Australian Open in nineteen ninety

856
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: so that was twenty eight years ago when I think

857
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: I lost to Kamiko Dante before we kne Kamiko Dante

858
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: ye back work she was good or as she was

859
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: on the rise, So and that was another opportunity I took.

860
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: And then that's you know, that's been a that's been

861
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: a been a huge help because we all love the

862
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: sport and we love especially major tennis and to be

863
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: very fortunate to have the ESPN of three of the

864
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: four majors from start to finish.

865
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 4: Okay, I threw out a question of Twitter about what

866
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 4: if they had people wanted to talk to you, what

867
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 4: they would ask you?

868
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: And one of the questions, well, it was a couple,

869
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 2: but one of them was, what's the most awkward interview.

870
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 5: You've ever done?

871
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: Oh? It was Yon Tyriac. The interview Yon Tyriac, who

872
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: was playing the tour in seventy eight. He actually was

873
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: playing with the oversized prince racket. He ended up being

874
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: one of the great moguls of the sport. He's like

875
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: legendary Romanian played with nastasi Own's Madrid anyway, He's big,

876
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: been a big palepe pan. So Hallick was playing in supporter.

877
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: So Hallip's playing and I went around in my court

878
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: side position asked the espnof I could go talk to

879
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: Tyriac and Bobby Feller said yes. So I secure was

880
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: sitting in the Oracle main main box, and he said, yeah, sure,

881
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: I'll talk to Pam. But what he didn't understand when

882
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: it was to talk to me on the air. I

883
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: thought it was a given because he's sad. He thought

884
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: he's going to have I was gonna go have a

885
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 1: chat over this. So I came up, I sat down

886
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: and Chris Fawler throws to me and then I started

887
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: asking the first question. He said, I'm not gonna talk.

888
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna talk to you on air. So that

889
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: was the most awkward interview. It was the interview that

890
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: I was thrown to. And then I just had to

891
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: somehow do what you do in that position, because when

892
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: you're in the courtside position you do interviews, there's oftentimes

893
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: you have to do a little bit of quick dancing.

894
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, like when you interviewed the drunk Scottish lady Helen.

895
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: That was Helen. That was that was fun. That was

896
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: in the days before security wouldn't let They now won't

897
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: let you roam Henman Hill, which is really too bad

898
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: because you could have some really great moments fertile ground

899
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: for some Yeah, Helen was too much.

900
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 5: Some good interviews.

901
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: It's been, it's you know, it's been. It's been a

902
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: lot of fun to see what tennis fans do, what

903
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: they go to to go watch tennis, and how far

904
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: they've traveled, and who they are coming to watch. And

905
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:58,479
Speaker 1: they're very passionate people.

906
00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 7: You know.

907
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: We I didn't ask you the question about when you

908
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: and Martina split up.

909
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 4: This is another question. How did you guys get past

910
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 4: your eighty nine US Open final on reteam in ninety one?

911
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 4: Someone had to extend the first of Olive Branch.

912
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 5: And who was it?

913
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: Well, that's a great one. That's a great question. Well,

914
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: first off, remember I said to her it was the

915
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: year we lost to the Bush Brothers in eighty nine.

916
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: So I wasn't yes, yes, but eighty nine. I'm just

917
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: taking you back to that year. It wasn't a good

918
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: year for me and I was out of shape and

919
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: I could still play decent doubles, but Martina knew and

920
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: she wasn't in a good mood either either in eighty nine.

921
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: So here's the tour. Here's what ended up happening. That

922
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: was too bad. Though I found out from somebody else.

923
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: I didn't find out from Martinez. I found out from

924
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: somebody else. So then I found out it was true,

925
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: and she was going to play the Open with hannahman Lakova,

926
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: and so I needed to find a partner. But I

927
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: was like, so down in the dumps. This is as

928
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: sad as I had been in eighty nine. I was

929
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: just sad about this. But you know, Claudia Coda Kill

930
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: she got injured and it made available Mary Joe Fernandez.

931
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: Mary Joe was really young in eighty nine, she was

932
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: a teenager, so I thought, well, let's try. So we'd

933
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 1: never played together, and we got through to the doubles final,

934
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: and on the other side of the net it was

935
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: Navratilova and man Lakova and ended up at six all

936
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: in the final set. No way, Yeah, I didn't know this. Yeah,

937
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: six all in the final set, and we just looked

938
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: at each other and said, come on, come on. So

939
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: we ended up coming a couple points short, but I

940
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: made the point. I made the point because Mary Joe

941
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: had never been to a major doubles final. She was

942
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: she was on our way to bed. When you shoot

943
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: Mantina's hand, I shook it, unlike you, I Sugar, that

944
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: was your ol branch. Maybe so we stayed friends. We

945
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: had gone through too much. We never went through a

946
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: stage where we didn't talk. I knew what my role

947
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: was in that I wasn't holding up my end up

948
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: the bargain. I wasn't staying in top top shape, So

949
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: it was understandable, Okay, if I can just flat go forward.

950
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: Two years later, Zvereva Natasha and she she and Larissa

951
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: Sabachenko had won Wimmelin and then Larissa dropped her for

952
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: Navatna Yep. I didn't have a partner. In ninety one,

953
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: I was playing in Havana, Cuba and the Pan American Games.

954
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: If you can imagine trying to get a Belarusen on

955
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: the phone from Havana in the middle of winning. It

956
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: was the last single storm I ever won. Was Havana,

957
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: Panamerican Games ninety one. I got a hold of her

958
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: somehow and she said, sure, she'd played with me playing

959
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: the US Open doubles. We'd never played together before. We

960
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: get to the finals, and who's on the other side

961
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: of the net Martina, No, Sabchenko and Novotna.

962
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: I know this story.

963
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: And what does the score end up? Six all in

964
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: the final set? So now Natasha's in the same position

965
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: I was two years earlier playing against her partner that

966
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: had just dropped her, which was a really dumb move

967
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: from Yes it was. It was smarter of Martina dumping me,

968
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: it was. But we ended up winning that tiebreak, and

969
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: so for Natasha, and that was my last major title.

970
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: Did you drop the mic and walk off after that?

971
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: No? No, he just wanted more. I should have done

972
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: a Pete Sampers but but Litz smile and I got

973
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: to one more, one more major doubles final at the

974
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: Australian a few years after that.

975
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: That's right, who'd you listen?

976
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: And Natasha and I didn't hold serf once. You know,

977
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: it's crazy what you remember. You didn't hold so I didn't.

978
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: I didn't hold sir. I didn't hold serf. I chose

979
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 1: the bad end. That was when the women into the sun,

980
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: terrible down into the sun on in my final I

981
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: think we've talked about this. That was I didn't lose.

982
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: Besides that, like, I mean, you know both of you

983
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: know which end is going to be.

984
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: Well. I was playing in sunglasses late in my career,

985
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: and I think and I would have considered myself the

986
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: better server, and I probably thought I could. I would

987
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: have held my own more so, I I think I

988
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: probably made the decision. It's something like we lost like

989
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: three and four, three and three, but I remember it's

990
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: I think it's the only doubles magic I can ever

991
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: remember playing. Or I didn't old serve.

992
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty bad.

993
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: Anyway.

994
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 2: Who decides, I don't know.

995
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 4: It depends with Lisa and I depended on time, like

996
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 4: what side, where the sun was, where the wind was

997
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 4: when I played, he was feeling Kara didn't matter to

998
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 4: serve with.

999
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: The wind Martina.

1000
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 4: Actually, I've got a funny story about Martina. One of

1001
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 4: her old partners said to me that they tossed, they

1002
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 4: put through the coin and chose who was going to

1003
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 4: serve where on what end, And it was at night

1004
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 4: time and Martina said, I can't serve down that and

1005
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 4: because the moon is up there, the moon the moon,

1006
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 4: so she couldn't throw the ball to us up because

1007
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 4: the moon, the moon distracted her.

1008
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: Distracted her. Yeah, so just so you know, even the

1009
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: greatest uh uh.

1010
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 4: But Pam, when you played with Martina, did you ever

1011
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 4: have a time where she didn't want to serve because

1012
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 4: the moon was.

1013
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: In hersh No?

1014
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: What was what was your partner's name or is it

1015
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: go unnamed.

1016
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 2: That she was playing with somebody that I know that

1017
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 2: told me that story. Okay, let me go unnamed for

1018
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: the time.

1019
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 4: What was it? What was the biggest fight that you

1020
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 4: and Martine over had, Like, was there a time where

1021
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 4: you just disagreed or.

1022
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: You got Well, I'll tell you an interesting thing. We

1023
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: were in the middle of our one hundred and nine

1024
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: match win streak and I always played the douce side,

1025
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 1: the right side, Martina played the ad side left side,

1026
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: and her coach at the time, Mike Estepp, came up

1027
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: with this right idea for us to remember switch sides.

1028
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: He thought we'd be even better with Martina on the

1029
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: first court on the first court and me and the

1030
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: second court. And I'm like, hang on, We've won seventy

1031
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: nine straight matches. Why would you change this?

1032
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 6: Sometimes coaches say things just to say things.

1033
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: So I went along with it, and we extended. We

1034
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: almost lost to Sokova and clouded kilsh in the finals

1035
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: of Adison Square Garden. We want it in a third

1036
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: set tiebreak. And it was soon after that that her

1037
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: coach and Martinez they realized that we were better the

1038
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: other way.

1039
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: Oh good, I'm glad it took them that long.

1040
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 3: All right.

1041
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 2: So last couple of things. You go out of tennis,

1042
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: you go into broadcasting, you get you.

1043
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 5: Meet all of us.

1044
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, happily.

1045
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: Ever after, well, no, you had You've had a bit

1046
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: of a tough like you know, ten fifteen years. You

1047
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: lost your first husband to cancer.

1048
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: Last my before that, last my only older sibling. Yeah,

1049
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: you can cancer.

1050
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: You lose your husband to cancer, and then you get married.

1051
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: You have a bit of it. You have three kids

1052
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 2: with the one and only George Lazenby, who was actually

1053
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 2: a James.

1054
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: Bond character, the only Australian James James Bond.

1055
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: And but it's a bit of a tough road, a

1056
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: little bit. You have to deal with getting divorced, raising

1057
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 2: three kids, single.

1058
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 4: Parents, custody trials, custody prol I mean, I don't think

1059
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 4: people realize that about you, you know, do you want

1060
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 4: to you know, well for people at home that you know,

1061
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 4: I have got three things like this.

1062
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think not to equate anything you go

1063
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: through on the tennis court with like losing loved ones,

1064
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: but I do think there's something about the resiliency of

1065
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: being an athlete and needing to recover from losses that

1066
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: are minor in comparison. But I think it really was

1067
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: a big help. I always had certain things. I had

1068
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: the tennis community, I had my friends in the community,

1069
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: I was. Baltimore was always such a big part of

1070
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: my support system. And you know, you just you just

1071
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 1: keep moving forward, is all I can say. And even recently,

1072
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, sixteen months ago, All the Sun was diagnosed

1073
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: with type one diabetes. It's just really a scary autoimmune situation.

1074
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: And actually I'm waiting to meet a friend of mine,

1075
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: tennis player who got in the main draw US Open

1076
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: last year, Jc Aragoni, who went to UVA like Danielle

1077
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: Collins who placed tonight. He's a type one diabetic making

1078
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: his way on the tennis tour. And it's you know,

1079
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: these are that was also a big step back, because

1080
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: you know, your kids and say, is the same age

1081
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: that my late my ex husband, George, his first son

1082
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with brain cancer, and you lost his first

1083
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: son at age nineteen. So that was one of the

1084
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: things we connected on actually was grief, which isn't I've

1085
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: learned a great base to start a relationship. But we

1086
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 1: co parent as best we can. We went through hell

1087
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: and back, but in the end, you do whatever you

1088
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: can do to thread kids. And so on that note,

1089
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: we got to end on a happier now.

1090
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 4: Well, in that note, we're at the US Opens series,

1091
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 4: the start of another summer. This is you know how

1092
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 4: many US Opens will this be for you in a row?

1093
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: That when once we get there, either as a player

1094
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: or a broadcaster. Well, I just had my fortieth wimblin

1095
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: and I think I missed one when I was giving

1096
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: I gave birth to the twins in September of oh five,

1097
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: So I think that's the only US Open I've missed.

1098
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: And I missed one Wembledon in the forty years, and

1099
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: that was when I gave birth to my oldest child

1100
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: July twelve. It's hard to make Wimbledon when you give

1101
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: birth July twelfth. You probably tried so it's forty years.

1102
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, forty years. I can't believe it's

1103
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: been forty years since I got the final as and amateur.

1104
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: It's crazy. Where's the time going crazy? I know? Well,

1105
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: we we love it.

1106
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 2: We we love your enthusiasm, Pam.

1107
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 4: Whenever you work, and I gotta have fun knowing on

1108
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 4: the one thing that we have had throughout the podcast

1109
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 4: and every single person that we've interviewed, is the word passion.

1110
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 2: From Judy Murray to Mary Carello to.

1111
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 4: You know, Kim Kisters and anybody else who loves tennis,

1112
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 4: and even you, Chris McKendree, Pam. I think it's fairly

1113
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 4: easy to say that your passion for the sport of

1114
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 4: tennis is obvious for everybody to see. If it's not

1115
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 4: on our broadcast at ESPN, it's certainly whenever they see you.

1116
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 4: So thanks for joining me today.

1117
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: Thank you. It's been fun.

1118
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: We're gonna do a little bit of work now.

1119
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go, and that's it for this episode of

1120
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 3: the Racket Magazine podcast.

1121
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

1122
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 3: Our host is Renee Stubbs. Our co host and producer

1123
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 3: is me Caitlin Thompson. Music by Internationally renowned DJ Stretch

1124
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 3: Armstrong thanks to Tim Or, Jerry, Taylor Dalton and the

1125
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 3: team at ACAST. Find us at racketmag dot com, slash podcast,

1126
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 3: and subscribe to us at any of your favorite podcatchers.