WEBVTT - Stay of Execution With Just Days to Spare!

0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Hey, there are folks. It is Thursday, October ninth, and

0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:10.479
<v Speaker 1>he was one week away from his execution date when

0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:15.080
<v Speaker 1>a Texas inmate heard the words I guess every death

0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:20.040
<v Speaker 1>row inmate wants to hear. They have stayed your execution.

0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.040
<v Speaker 1>And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.

0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.319
<v Speaker 1>Robert Robertson Rose, We've been in following this case for

0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.120
<v Speaker 1>quite a while. Cannot believe here we are. He supposed

0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:31.360
<v Speaker 1>to be executed a week from today. He got news

0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:32.840
<v Speaker 1>that's not going forward.

0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, October has been a scary but a good month

0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.559
<v Speaker 2>for Robert Robertson because this is the second time in

0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.000
<v Speaker 2>one year, in a period of twelve months, where there

0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.000
<v Speaker 2>have been interventions to stop an imminent execution. He would

0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.360
<v Speaker 2>have been and if this is eventually to go through,

0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.400
<v Speaker 2>he would be the first person ever executed after being

0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.320
<v Speaker 2>convicted of shaking baby syndrome. That's how flimsy and now

0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.080
<v Speaker 2>really they say on warranted and baseless that science is

0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.240
<v Speaker 2>that was used to convict him all those years ago.

0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:07.560
<v Speaker 1>If you've been following this case, we certainly have. You've

0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:09.240
<v Speaker 1>been keeping up with us on our morning run. But

0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.800
<v Speaker 1>Robert Robertson, I was fifty eight years old. He was

0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.760
<v Speaker 1>convicted of killing his own daughter, a two year old Nikki,

0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.319
<v Speaker 1>A story in the circumstances we'll get into, but he

0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.720
<v Speaker 1>was convicted based on shaken baby syndrome. Well, a lot

0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.399
<v Speaker 1>of that science has changed, and if he were to

0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.440
<v Speaker 1>go to trial today, they wouldn't be allowed to even

0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.920
<v Speaker 1>use the same science that they used all those years

0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.160
<v Speaker 1>ago to convict him. So he went before a court

0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.600
<v Speaker 1>of appeals, and that quart of appeals has today come

0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.240
<v Speaker 1>back and said we're going to halt your execution robes.

0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.679
<v Speaker 1>They haven't said we are ending in or taking you

0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.200
<v Speaker 1>off death row. They essentially said, nope, we're gonna stop

0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.320
<v Speaker 1>it until another court at least here's.

0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:53.080
<v Speaker 3>You out correct.

0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.200
<v Speaker 2>And you know what, at this point, I think that's

0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.520
<v Speaker 2>all his attorneys were trying to get. They were trying

0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.720
<v Speaker 2>to get another court hearing. They ultimately want a new

0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.360
<v Speaker 2>trial because without that evidence, it seems very unlikely that

0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.160
<v Speaker 2>he would be convicted of killing his two year old daughter,

0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.679
<v Speaker 2>then two year old daughter, And certainly there have been

0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:15.720
<v Speaker 2>so many people from John Grisham to Republican lawmakers in

0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.200
<v Speaker 2>the state of Texas along with their Democratic counterparts, all

0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.800
<v Speaker 2>rallying because they believe this man, Robert Robertson, is innocent,

0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.560
<v Speaker 2>and he has maintained his innocence from the very beginning.

0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.160
<v Speaker 2>There have been several complicating factors that led to his conviction.

0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.200
<v Speaker 2>All of them have been brought up, but it seems

0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.200
<v Speaker 2>like the most compelling one with the Court of Appeals

0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.600
<v Speaker 2>was this notion of a junk science being used to

0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.760
<v Speaker 2>convict them. Because there is a law on the books

0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.560
<v Speaker 2>in the state of Texas, its passed in twenty thirteen

0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.200
<v Speaker 2>that allows a person to challenge their conviction if the

0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.840
<v Speaker 2>science used to convict them has been discredited. That is

0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.760
<v Speaker 2>clearly applicable to this case.

0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:57.200
<v Speaker 1>That's the case. I mean, I don't that's not in

0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.640
<v Speaker 1>dispute by anybody at this point, right.

0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.440
<v Speaker 2>And Edi hadn't been able to get a new trial.

0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.520
<v Speaker 2>He hadn't been able to get this because the only way,

0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:10.440
<v Speaker 2>or the only reason why his scheduled execution was halted

0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.760
<v Speaker 2>last year is because the bipartisan legislature decided to call

0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.000
<v Speaker 2>him to testify. It was basically a maneuver to wait

0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.239
<v Speaker 2>out the execution Dayton. They asked for him to testify

0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.280
<v Speaker 2>what the week after his scheduled execution.

0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:26.760
<v Speaker 3>And so because they did that and he.

0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Never actually did testify, it pushed it to the next year.

0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.720
<v Speaker 1>So this guy, they kicked the can down the road

0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.960
<v Speaker 1>there in Texas. So we got to the end of

0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:38.400
<v Speaker 1>the road. Or at least it was supposed to be

0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.120
<v Speaker 1>next week, October sixteenth, lethal injection. It was planned, he

0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.000
<v Speaker 1>was supposed to die. Well, that's not going to happen

0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.240
<v Speaker 1>at least next week. We want to be clear here,

0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.640
<v Speaker 1>they're not saying he is coming off death roll. What

0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.720
<v Speaker 1>they're saying here, at least this Texas Court of Appeals

0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.920
<v Speaker 1>is that, hey, the lower court, the trial court, you

0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.800
<v Speaker 1>need to at least hear him out on his claims now.

0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Robe one of them has to do with the junk science.

0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.560
<v Speaker 1>The other one had to do with somebody else who

0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:09.520
<v Speaker 1>was also convicted under baby shaken baby syndrome. And that

0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.680
<v Speaker 1>person is out of prison now.

0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, So the judge referenced this case of Andrew Rourke,

0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.479
<v Speaker 2>who was convicted back in two thousand of injury to

0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.720
<v Speaker 2>a child and based on shaking baby syndrome testimony. He

0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.599
<v Speaker 2>was sentenced to thirty five years in prison. He also

0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.680
<v Speaker 2>maintained his innocence from the beginning saying he never hit

0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.719
<v Speaker 2>or harmed his child. Last year, the court said, after

0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.000
<v Speaker 2>hearing all the new evidence and certainly looking at the

0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.719
<v Speaker 2>invalidity of the evidence presented in court at the time,

0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.719
<v Speaker 2>they said he likely would not have been convicted today.

0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.960
<v Speaker 2>So the appeals court sent his case back and the

0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:52.200
<v Speaker 2>DA decided to exonerate Andrew Rourke. And that is what

0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.919
<v Speaker 2>the judge cited when making the decision today about Robert Roberts.

0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Yah, they were throwing this name around. I wasn't I mean,

0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.320
<v Speaker 1>familiar with Andrew Rourke in that case necessarily, but they

0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.640
<v Speaker 1>were throwing it essentially saying, wait a minute, we want

0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.200
<v Speaker 1>that deal. That's all we're asking for. Do what you

0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.400
<v Speaker 1>did with him, which is take a look at this

0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:15.840
<v Speaker 1>junk science. The conclusion seems clear there nowes we have

0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.160
<v Speaker 1>to say, there are plenty of folks out there, and

0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.239
<v Speaker 1>including the family of the little girl, at least the moms.

0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.719
<v Speaker 3>Some of them, yes, are they know?

0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.080
<v Speaker 1>And there are some lawmakers, There are some still police,

0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.080
<v Speaker 1>There are some doctors would say, yeah, shaken baby syndrome

0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.040
<v Speaker 1>is a real thing, and this child in particular ropes.

0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it was the fact that little Nikki, to

0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.240
<v Speaker 1>your old Nikki had some blunt force trauma. Now, the

0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.279
<v Speaker 1>explanation was she had fallen out of the bed, but

0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:46.799
<v Speaker 1>they thought she had been beaten.

0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they said that they felt like because of the

0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.799
<v Speaker 2>trauma to the head, that she had been beaten or shaken.

0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.800
<v Speaker 2>But his story, Robertson's story has stayed true and the

0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.800
<v Speaker 2>same all these years, saying that she was ill. He

0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.040
<v Speaker 2>had been taking her to the hospital. She had severe

0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.000
<v Speaker 2>viral and bacterial pneumonia. She had been given drugs and

0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.560
<v Speaker 2>prescribed drugs by doctors that are now no longer allowed

0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.320
<v Speaker 2>to be prescribed to children because I believe it affects

0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.760
<v Speaker 2>their breathing, so it could stop your heart literally could

0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.920
<v Speaker 2>be a cause of death. And so you've got these medications,

0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.359
<v Speaker 2>you've got this severe viral and bacterial pnemonia, and this

0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:22.880
<v Speaker 2>was not a healthy child. She had been in and

0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.520
<v Speaker 2>out of the hospital for most of her little life,

0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.120
<v Speaker 2>and then she fell out of the bed. And that's

0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.640
<v Speaker 2>how he explains, or at least that's what he says happened,

0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.279
<v Speaker 2>and that would possibly be responsible for the blunt force

0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:35.559
<v Speaker 2>trauma that they see.

0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Like you said, he's maintained his story throughout, so it's

0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.080
<v Speaker 1>not just yes, they want the execution to stop, at

0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.120
<v Speaker 1>least he and his attorneys. But they are they absolutely

0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.120
<v Speaker 1>are proclaiming his innocence. This is a case that has

0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.920
<v Speaker 1>been going on. They want him out of prison, not

0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.800
<v Speaker 1>just off death row, and have maintained this for a

0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.560
<v Speaker 1>long time that this guy and the other factor here

0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:58.799
<v Speaker 1>right Robes, we discovered later.

0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.480
<v Speaker 2>That he is autistic, yes, and so that was part

0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.240
<v Speaker 2>of also the testimony used against him in his initial trial,

0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.800
<v Speaker 2>that he wasn't as emotional as you would expect a

0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.280
<v Speaker 2>father to be whose daughter was just pronounced dead. And

0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.880
<v Speaker 2>so that same detective who testified against him has now

0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:17.360
<v Speaker 2>come out very publicly and often saying he believes he's innocent,

0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:22.280
<v Speaker 2>that he was wrong, that he misinterpreted ert Robertson's lack

0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.360
<v Speaker 2>of empathy or lack of emotion and didn't realize that

0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.040
<v Speaker 2>there was actually a clinical diagnosis behind why he acted

0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:31.240
<v Speaker 2>and reacted the way he did.

0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.560
<v Speaker 1>That's incredible that something like that could factor into a

0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.800
<v Speaker 1>man possibly being put to death, Like, I'm just not

0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.360
<v Speaker 1>know who. I didn't know he was autistic. He just

0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.200
<v Speaker 1>his emotional reactions were enough to make somebody think he

0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:48.280
<v Speaker 1>was guilty. This case is incredibly fascinating, and we keep

0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:50.600
<v Speaker 1>learning more and more and more about it. Ropes. I'm

0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:54.840
<v Speaker 1>still as we go through. We've been talking about the

0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:59.360
<v Speaker 1>death penalty more and more here lately, and I can't

0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:05.120
<v Speaker 1>isn't this the proof that this man shouldn't be executed,

0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.920
<v Speaker 1>that everybody's fighting about it this much. Clearly we're not

0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.080
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent sure, And I say we talking about

0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.400
<v Speaker 1>just as a society. Shouldn't that be enough to say

0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.880
<v Speaker 1>we're not in agreement. It has to be one hundred percent sure.

0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:20.760
<v Speaker 3>All of us. There's no taking it back.

0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.720
<v Speaker 2>There's no exonerating someone if you do it posthumously, that

0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.120
<v Speaker 2>the damage is done, there's no taking it back.

0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:28.040
<v Speaker 3>This is permanent.

0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.960
<v Speaker 2>This isn't like whoopsie, we put you in prison, which

0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.080
<v Speaker 2>is still significant. I mean, his attorneys point out that

0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.840
<v Speaker 2>he has spent the last twenty two years behind bars

0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:38.840
<v Speaker 2>for a crime he didn't commit, and they had said

0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.160
<v Speaker 2>that over and over again, and by the way, they

0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.440
<v Speaker 2>also pointed to this statistic just for some perspective. Since

0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:48.960
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety two, at least forty parents and caregivers have

0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:54.360
<v Speaker 2>now been exonerated after they were convicted for wrongful shake

0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.960
<v Speaker 2>in baby syndrome. So this is not unusual. Since nineteen

0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.680
<v Speaker 2>ninety two, for over the past thirty years, forty parents

0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:07.080
<v Speaker 2>and caregivers have since been exonerated after they were already convicted.

0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.440
<v Speaker 1>His conviction was what year. I can't believe we don't

0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:11.959
<v Speaker 1>know this off the top of our heads, as much as.

0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:13.840
<v Speaker 2>We've been I thought it was two thousand and two.

0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.839
<v Speaker 1>That sounds right. Two thousand and two is when Nikki died. Yes,

0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.679
<v Speaker 1>So I mean this is right around that. I mean,

0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:25.120
<v Speaker 1>it's it's in I just if we get away from

0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.920
<v Speaker 1>a moral question of the death penalty. And this is

0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:29.880
<v Speaker 1>not a matter of I believe we should have it or

0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.360
<v Speaker 1>I believe we shouldn't have it. We all agree that

0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.120
<v Speaker 1>we shouldn't put somebody to death that we are not

0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:41.080
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent sure of the guilt, the guilt at least,

0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.320
<v Speaker 1>and it's just too much with this one Rogan. Some

0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.319
<v Speaker 1>I guess on one side, I might say, well, I

0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.240
<v Speaker 1>am one hundred percent sure, and the other side said,

0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:49.520
<v Speaker 1>well I am one hundred percent sure.

0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Two. But the question would be given the information we

0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.800
<v Speaker 2>know now that we didn't know what the time of

0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.240
<v Speaker 2>his trial, what a jury of his peers find him

0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.360
<v Speaker 2>guilty or innocent. And I think that's a fair question

0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.080
<v Speaker 2>to ask now twenty two years later, when we know more.

0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.680
<v Speaker 2>It's I mean, I know this is a really bad comparison,

0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.240
<v Speaker 2>but I think about college football, and you know, a

0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.400
<v Speaker 2>ref makes a call right there in the field. Why

0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.320
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't we want to go back now if we have

0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.520
<v Speaker 2>better information to actually see if the ball was out

0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.840
<v Speaker 2>of bounds. If we can do that and then have

0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.200
<v Speaker 2>a better clear understanding, and then the ref can make

0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.680
<v Speaker 2>a better choice based on better information, why wouldn't we

0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.680
<v Speaker 2>want that for somebody whose life is on the line.

0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Continuing with your football analogy, what if that play is

0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.160
<v Speaker 1>the game winning one, then the game's over after a

0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.920
<v Speaker 1>call we didn't review. This is what we're talking about,

0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.440
<v Speaker 1>just in life and death. Now we have to have

0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.040
<v Speaker 1>to be sure. Look, I'm glad no matter what, there

0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.520
<v Speaker 1>are people who absolutely believe this man is a monster

0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.240
<v Speaker 1>and he did something as heinous as it gets. We're

0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.720
<v Speaker 1>talking about a two year old child who had health problems,

0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.200
<v Speaker 1>and they believe this man beat his child to death.

0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.480
<v Speaker 1>And you have another side to this story, and then

0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.400
<v Speaker 1>you have science, and science was telling us Robes something

0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.320
<v Speaker 1>different today than it was telling us thirty years ago.

0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.760
<v Speaker 1>And I think the law says we're supposed to listen, right.

0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.120
<v Speaker 3>I believe that is what justice is.

0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:15.000
<v Speaker 2>It's not about defending the fact that you thought you

0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.880
<v Speaker 2>were right thirty years ago, but actually examining whether or

0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:18.760
<v Speaker 2>not you truly were.

0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:19.840
<v Speaker 3>That's justice.

0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.240
<v Speaker 1>And we're talking about where this case is now and

0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.600
<v Speaker 1>all these developments that took place today. The court has

0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.920
<v Speaker 1>stepped in and said, yes, we're going to stay the execution,

0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.720
<v Speaker 1>but we haven't even told you, at least in this

0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.520
<v Speaker 1>podcast about the other update. There was another huge development

0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.280
<v Speaker 1>in this case this week, a development we thought was

0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.520
<v Speaker 1>the one that might actually get him a stay of execution.

0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.840
<v Speaker 2>We continue our conversation now about this major development in

0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.200
<v Speaker 2>the case of fifty eight year old Robert Robertson. He

0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.480
<v Speaker 2>was convicted of murdering his two year old daughter, Nicki,

0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.480
<v Speaker 2>and the basis for that conviction was science that is

0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:07.920
<v Speaker 2>now considered junk science.

0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.240
<v Speaker 3>It's shaken baby syndrome.

0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:14.040
<v Speaker 2>And after years and years, more than a decade of trying,

0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.480
<v Speaker 2>his lawyers have finally gotten a stay of execution and

0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.079
<v Speaker 2>a request for there to be a court hearing on

0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.719
<v Speaker 2>this new evidence for there to be a reconsideration of

0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:30.400
<v Speaker 2>new medical information that has come to light concerning how

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 2>and why this man was convicted. And in this appeal,

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:38.200
<v Speaker 2>this is really interesting, Robertson's lawyers included along with that

0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:43.760
<v Speaker 2>new scientific information that we now know, they actually say

0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:50.199
<v Speaker 2>ten independent pathologists looked at that original medical examiner's autopsy

0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:55.000
<v Speaker 2>of little Nikki and they concluded that Nicki died. The

0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.760
<v Speaker 2>coroner's report that Nicki died from those blunt force head injuries,

0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.040
<v Speaker 2>which is really what got him convicted, were not reliable.

0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.559
<v Speaker 2>So ten independent pathologists. So the defense really put on

0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:07.920
<v Speaker 2>an incredible, I don't want to say show, but just

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.480
<v Speaker 2>really produced a significant amount of evidence enough to sway

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:13.880
<v Speaker 2>this judge for the first time in a long time.

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:19.199
<v Speaker 1>And look, the other side will give you their witnesses

0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.400
<v Speaker 1>and they're experts, and you're supposed to work all that

0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 1>out in court and let a jury decide. But again

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.160
<v Speaker 1>the point here being, the jury didn't get to hear

0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 1>some of the stuff we know not we know, yes,

0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:32.440
<v Speaker 1>we just we know more.

0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.160
<v Speaker 2>And there's something else the jury didn't get to hear,

0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's something that actually was made or I guess

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 2>there was some light shed on it in a podcast

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.560
<v Speaker 2>just a few days ago of Dayline podcast where we

0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 2>heard from for the first time Nicky's maternal grandfather, who

0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 2>told NBC's Lester Holds something we had not yet hurt.

0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we thought this was the thing, right there was

0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 1>He's got so much Robert Robertson, so many motions out

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 1>there trying to get the execution stopped, and we thought, Okay,

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.440
<v Speaker 1>he's running out of options. Next week is going to

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.120
<v Speaker 1>be it. And then this dateline thing comes up where

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 1>the grandfather on the little baby Nicky's on the mom's side,

0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 1>said that he got a call when Nicky was in

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 1>the hospital that a judge called that hospital and told

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:26.520
<v Speaker 1>them that the grandparents were actually the parents and that

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 1>the grandparents had the right to make the call to

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.360
<v Speaker 1>take the child off life support, and they did do so.

0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 1>That same judge ends up signing the arrestaurant for Robert Robertson.

0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:43.600
<v Speaker 1>That same judge ends up being the judge in his trial. Now,

0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.440
<v Speaker 1>as you're hearing those facts laid out, you might go,

0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, that doesn't sound right, well, because it's not.

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 1>First of all, only Bert Roberson had the right to

0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 1>make that call.

0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 2>About that child, yes, and then so beyond that, it

0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 2>just screams of judicial misconduct. You know, this is somebody

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 2>who clearly was overly involved from the actual decision regarding

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 2>her death to who to arrest and then presiding over

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 2>and you know, a judge again to make another sports reference.

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 3>But much like a.

0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Referee can absolutely sway, a jury can absolutely have an

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:24.880
<v Speaker 2>impact or an influence over how certain evidence is allowed,

0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 2>how it's received, how it's perceived that Durer instructions. There

0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.560
<v Speaker 2>is so much influence that these judges have over these trials,

0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 2>So how could that possibly not be misconduct?

0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.600
<v Speaker 1>I was shocked to hear. I mean, you just go

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 1>to the I mean again, she was on life support,

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.760
<v Speaker 1>so we have to assume they didn't think she was

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 1>going to do well, or maybe she wasn't going to

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.480
<v Speaker 1>make it. But still someone made the call about the

0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.400
<v Speaker 1>life and death of his child and he didn't get

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.400
<v Speaker 1>to that right there strips wrights away from him, and

0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:02.160
<v Speaker 1>he has a case and a cause there it's just

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 1>too much. We're overwhelmed now with information of what the

0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.960
<v Speaker 1>hell and we can't trust that, but that expert trust

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 1>that it's too much just I know they've got to

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 1>go through the legal process. But this seems don't you

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.560
<v Speaker 1>think Rope's going in the direction even if it's not

0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 1>an exoneration, they got to get him off.

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:22.640
<v Speaker 3>It feels like that's where it's headed.

0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.880
<v Speaker 2>And we actually, I mean, I again am no legal expert,

0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 2>but just having covered it the way we have, I

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>am certainly hopeful that that is the outcome.

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 3>And to know that.

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Ultra conservative Republican lawmakers from Texas who are very pro

0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.760
<v Speaker 2>death penalty all joined forces with Democrats in that state

0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 2>after reviewing all of the evidence and the things that

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 2>we are now explaining to you here, that they all

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.400
<v Speaker 2>were on board with getting him and actually creating a

0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>political stunt to make sure he wasn't executed. With the

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.960
<v Speaker 2>little power that they had over the situation, I think

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 2>speaks of volumes.

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm smiling. You said they pulled off a political stunt.

0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.440
<v Speaker 1>It was a bipartisan which is so rare. The last

0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:04.200
<v Speaker 1>one there was one side. We're talking about Texas Republicans

0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:08.840
<v Speaker 1>and Democrats working together. That should be enough great execution

0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.760
<v Speaker 1>that Texas Republicans are working with their Democratic counter of

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.120
<v Speaker 1>arts to save a man's life who's on death row. Idea.

0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:18.480
<v Speaker 3>That is all.

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's most of the proof that I need at

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:25.359
<v Speaker 2>this point. But again, certainly some news of relief for

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Robertson and his supporters, and I know some frustration for

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.919
<v Speaker 2>folks who think that this is exactly what should have happened,

0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.719
<v Speaker 2>and they're frustrated by our very lengthy process to actually

0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.720
<v Speaker 2>go through an execution, but certainly one that has to

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 2>be the case because of something very much like this.

0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.359
<v Speaker 2>We have to be sure and if we can't be sure, yeah,

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that is just what most people who look

0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.920
<v Speaker 2>at this case, even if they are pro death penalty,

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.480
<v Speaker 2>this is a this is a very specific situation. So

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.600
<v Speaker 2>we will continue to follow any new developments bring you

0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.439
<v Speaker 2>the very latest. Thank you as always for listening to us.

0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:00.920
<v Speaker 3>I made me wrote back alongside T. J.

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Holmes.

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:02.159
<v Speaker 3>We'll talk to you soon.

0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:03.920
<v Speaker 2>M