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Speaker 1: Lisa Lampinelli is not a licensed therapist or life coach.

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Speaker 1: She is a meddling advice giving yanta and know it

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Speaker 1: all and her words come from her head, her heart,

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Speaker 1: and often out of her ass. This podcast should not

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Speaker 1: be misconstrued as therapy. I should be taking with a

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Speaker 1: huge grain of salt for entertainment purposes only.

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Speaker 2: These.

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Speaker 3: You need help, You're the problems.

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Speaker 2: Come on, come.

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Speaker 3: Down, go cramb take a pill. I think you're insane.

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Speaker 3: Do what I say, dumb ass, listen to me. You

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, we're back again. I'm in. That's sturday. Wow,

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Speaker 3: it's Lisa Lampinelli. You're listening to the podcast that no

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Speaker 3: one is talking about. Shrink this with Lee Selambinelles. Shrinking

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Speaker 3: means we shrink your problems, We shrink your heads, and

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Speaker 3: we shrink your penis. And today to help shrink our

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Speaker 3: penises is, of course, our producers.

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Speaker 2: Celia.

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Speaker 3: Oh, she decided not to be on the mic because

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Speaker 3: she's unprofessional. Because I have to school this bitch every week. Hi, Celia, Okay,

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Speaker 3: watch now she has to run to a Okay, literally,

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Speaker 3: who employs you?

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 3: Do you get paid for this show? Because I object

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Speaker 3: to every sin you're making. That's okay, okay, but just hi, Celia,

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Speaker 3: because guess why I introduced you. Why because today is

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Speaker 3: the rare all female gender episode. Because Nick kind of

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Speaker 3: identifies as a he. She it, but we kicked him

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Speaker 3: out of the studio today because we have a special guest,

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Speaker 3: because the topic of friendship is always top of Lisa

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Speaker 3: Lebinelli's mind, because I'm no significant other by choice, no

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Speaker 3: family by death, and so we have friendship X for

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Speaker 3: Anna Goldfarb, who, by the way, I've become my best

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Speaker 3: friends with real who wrote the Bible in my opinion,

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Speaker 3: on friendship called modern friendship. If you don't have it,

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Speaker 3: get it. Go to BN dot com. See do you

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Speaker 3: like that Barnes and Nobles, I promote the little guys.

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Speaker 3: Go to the other websites that carry the books and

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Speaker 3: get this book because it will save your friendships. It

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Speaker 3: saved my ass. Anna, thank you for coming in.

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Speaker 2: I got my pleasure. I'm so excited to be here

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Speaker 2: with you. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: Poor Anna. She braved the trench weather coming from Philadelphia,

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Speaker 3: and I said, I hope you came for something better

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Speaker 3: than this, and She's like, no, I came to see you,

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Speaker 3: and I said, well, you'll be disappointed, but not like

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Speaker 3: I haven't told that to countless men. So anyway, what

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Speaker 3: we're going to do today is we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: to Anna as a second part of our friendship episode

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Speaker 3: because a few weeks ago or last week or whenever,

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Speaker 3: because like I do a lot, I can't be responsible

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Speaker 3: for memory everything. We did an episode called searching for

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Speaker 3: the One, which means not in a romantic sense, but

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Speaker 3: in a friendship way, because I seem to always be

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Speaker 3: searching for the one. The person who's going to come

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Speaker 3: in be the bestie, so you can get them the

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Speaker 3: mug and the T shirt and get them the matching

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Speaker 3: beer cozies, even if you don't drink. But it always

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Speaker 3: seems to like kind of be a false start. And

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Speaker 3: I don't know if best friendship is a false narrative

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Speaker 3: or something real. So, having written the book Modern Friendship,

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Speaker 3: which by the way, is fantastic, do you believe in

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Speaker 3: the concept of the one or the best friend?

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Speaker 2: Well, I believe in the concept of roles, and the

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Speaker 2: people in our lives play specific roles for us, and

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Speaker 2: it really depends on the person of what kind of

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Speaker 2: roles they're providing for other people and what other people

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Speaker 2: provide for them. For instance, my husband is my companion,

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Speaker 2: so that's a special role that he plays, right. But

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Speaker 2: one of my best friends, you know, she plays another role.

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Speaker 2: She's my collaborator, and I want to try something new,

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Speaker 2: you know, try a new lipstick, try a new restaurant.

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Speaker 2: She's always down to do something new, right, So it's

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Speaker 2: more how these parts interact with us. One of the

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Speaker 2: first things I learned about friendship was that friendships can

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Speaker 2: end at any time for any reason. They're very fragile. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so I understand, you know, questioning the construct of

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Speaker 2: if something so fragile, like, is this something we should

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Speaker 2: be pursuing? Right? Like, these things can break you up people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the world's a complicated, unpredictable place. People get depression,

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Speaker 2: people get grieve, people lose their jobs, and that all

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Speaker 2: influences who they seek out right, Right, So it's more

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Speaker 2: about learning how to be flexible and surf the wave

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Speaker 2: instead of getting sucked under the wave.

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Speaker 3: So do you think there's I think what I'm hearing

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Speaker 3: it sounds almost damaging to go out and try to

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Speaker 3: look for the person who'll fulfill everything. Friendship wise, Well,

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Speaker 3: that's backwards.

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Speaker 2: But you look for first is something you love to do,

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Speaker 2: and then the goal is to find someone who loves

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Speaker 2: what you love. Because every friendship needs an about, and

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Speaker 2: the about needs to be clear and compelling to both people.

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Speaker 2: So I think people do it backwards. They think friendship

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Speaker 2: is about affection, and affection isn't enough to keep a

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Speaker 2: friendship active. And that's where a lot of self doubt

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Speaker 2: comes in of well, I love my friends, but I

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Speaker 2: never hear from them. Maybe friendship isn't like so great.

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Speaker 2: But what people misunderstand about the way friendship works is

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Speaker 2: that it's really about finding something you love and want

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Speaker 2: to geek out about, want to experience, and finding someone

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Speaker 2: to do that with you, and that's what friendship develops.

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Speaker 3: That's such a weird I mean, it's a great idea,

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Speaker 3: but it sounds to me almost like how I've always

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Speaker 3: viewed men have friendships, So meaning, I love baseball, so

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Speaker 3: here are my guys from the baseball team, or it's

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Speaker 3: usually softball by the time they get over thirty because

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Speaker 3: their knees don't work anymore. Or oh, I love movies,

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Speaker 3: so it's all my buddies who love movies. That sounds

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Speaker 3: to me masculine, where women I don't, or just me

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Speaker 3: or women I've talked to, it's like, oh no, some

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Speaker 3: of the but it could vibe with It's more of

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Speaker 3: like a fluid thing. It's not a tangible. So if

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Speaker 3: I find some like if I have a hobby of say,

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Speaker 3: I love going to Broadway shows, right looking for a

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Speaker 3: person who fulfills that or running into somebody who's like,

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Speaker 3: oh you like that too, cool? I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: are they just your Broadway show friend? How can that

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Speaker 3: deepen into like an actual friendship where you're telling each

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Speaker 3: other stuff?

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a great question. And my favorite text to

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Speaker 2: understand how friendship works is through Hollywood Walk of Theme speeches. Oh,

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Speaker 2: if you've ever watched a Hollywood Walk of Theme speech,

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Speaker 2: it lays out exactly how friendships develop and form and

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Speaker 2: are maintained. One of my favorite ones is math McConaughey

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Speaker 2: at Guy Fieri's Hollywood Walk of Fame speech.

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Speaker 3: Are they friends?

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Speaker 2: They are close friends?

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's random, but I get it. They're both stones.

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Speaker 2: There's photographic evidence of them playing bongos together, like they

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Speaker 2: definitely connect. But you can look this speech up on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: Matthew McConaughey is sharing the story of his friendship with

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Speaker 2: Guy Fieri. You know Diners, Drive Ins and Dives Flavortown,

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Speaker 2: and Matthew McConaughey explains, I was an actor going across

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Speaker 2: the country in not Annesota stream an airstream. Oh my god, yeah,

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Speaker 2: on an airstream and he really Matthew McConaughey loved the

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Speaker 2: show Diners, Drive Ins and Dives, and Matthew McConaughey says

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Speaker 2: that he was going to be in Spokane the following week,

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Speaker 2: so he reached out to Guy Fieri and said, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'll be in Spokane. Where should I eat? What would

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Speaker 2: you recommend? And Guy Fieri was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: you should go here and here. These are my favorite spots.

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Speaker 2: And they created a friendship around where to eat.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love that.

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Speaker 2: So then Matthew mcconaughe would check it. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be in Tucson. Where should I eat? I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be here? Where should I eat? And that's what their

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Speaker 2: friendship was about at first, like where to eat? But

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Speaker 2: then what happened was that Matthew McConaughey moved to La

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Speaker 2: and Guy Fieri moved to la and then they connected

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Speaker 2: over deeper values, a family dealing with fame, spirituality, and

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Speaker 2: that's how their friendship deepened, and that's how they become

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Speaker 2: became like best friends for one another. So it started

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Speaker 2: with the where should I eat? But then it developed

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Speaker 2: on the values. So that's how it that's how it works.

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Speaker 3: That makes so much sense to me because I have

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Speaker 3: a good friend. I've talked about him before. Bobby, and

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Speaker 3: we met doing a community theater production of Barnum. Okay,

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Speaker 3: now I am not the greatest actress, singer, dancer, triple

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Speaker 3: threat of all time. One of the best, but not

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Speaker 3: the best. So I'm like, oh, I like me. I

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Speaker 3: like the idea of community. I like like this silly

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Speaker 3: theater thing we're doing. And at first I was like, okay,

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Speaker 3: we have this in common, me and this guy Bobby.

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Speaker 3: He's only thirty two, so I'm like, well, how much

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Speaker 3: could I really have in common with the thirty two

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Speaker 3: year old guy? But then like over time of going

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Speaker 3: to shows, of being in other little productions together and

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Speaker 3: just like vibing and go to movies. He's a very

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Speaker 3: available person, which I love because so am I like

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Speaker 3: someone who'll be like, oh, let's go to the movies tonight.

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Speaker 3: I love that I'm not big, Like I gotta stay

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Speaker 3: in my house and like have my introvert time. And

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Speaker 3: then over the you know course of like five years,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, he has the same values I have. Like,

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Speaker 3: he has the same politics I have. He's very open

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Speaker 3: to learning and going to the shrink and going to

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Speaker 3: meditation classes and stuff like.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 3: So it grew from just that little silly play. So

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Speaker 3: I get it, but you know what it requires that

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Speaker 3: I don't usually have his patients. So it sounds like

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Speaker 3: with the guy Fieri example, and McConaughey, they put in

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Speaker 3: the time, yeah, and patiently we're like, oh, let's see

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Speaker 3: where this goes without the pressure of oh my god,

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Speaker 3: I've got to gather community or friends.

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Speaker 2: It's the patience of doing something you already love doing.

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Speaker 2: That's the key. You know, study show it takes about

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Speaker 2: two hundred hours to go from stranger to close friends. Wow,

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Speaker 2: two hundred hours. So when we're younger, we have way

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Speaker 2: more free time, where our lives are simpler, where we

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Speaker 2: don't have to be as many things, know as many people,

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Speaker 2: So your friendship can be about you know, stuff in school, plays,

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Speaker 2: a team you're on. But a lot of those abouts

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Speaker 2: don't translate to when you get older. Right, So that's

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Speaker 2: the trick is we're getting older, what do I really

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Speaker 2: care about? And then giving friendships time to bake of, like,

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Speaker 2: let's spend a lot of time together, and that's where

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Speaker 2: the values emerge. Actually, a mismatch in values is one

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Speaker 2: of the top five reasons friendships buckle. Yeah, so are

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Speaker 2: really important, but that's not what kicks off a friendship.

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Speaker 2: It's the it's the about. And actually I share a

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Speaker 2: story in my book about my friend Adam who worked

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Speaker 2: at the Apple Store and he went got a comic book,

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Speaker 2: and his co worker, Octavius, noticed, Oh, you're into comic books,

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Speaker 2: and they started a friendship about comic books, talking on

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Speaker 2: the phone about comic books, started a podcast about.

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Speaker 3: Comic Oh, oh, my god.

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Speaker 2: And what happened was Octavius was sick and needed a

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Speaker 2: kidney transplant, and two of his family members had already

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Speaker 2: been ruled out like they weren't appropriate matches. But my

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Speaker 2: friend Adam says, I'll do it, like I want to help,

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Speaker 2: and my friend Adam donated his kidney, saved his friend's life,

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Speaker 2: and Octavius named Adam as the godparent to his to

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Speaker 2: his newborn daughter, so now they're family.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: But it started with comic book, right, Like that's how

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Speaker 2: powerful having a clear and compelling about can be.

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Speaker 3: Sure, But you want what I go to is I

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Speaker 3: need to know all your values first, because I'm not

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Speaker 3: spending my time with some guy who voted for the

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Speaker 3: demise of the gay community. So I almost I there's

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Speaker 3: this documentary I'm only halfway through. I'm sure you watch

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Speaker 3: a Join or Die on Netflix about like how people

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Speaker 3: used to join clubs all the time, the rotary knitting clubs, libraries,

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Speaker 3: like they used to do that and people don't do

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Speaker 3: that as much anymore, and it's sad. But I'm like,

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Speaker 3: but what if I join? I Suppose I haven't, which

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Speaker 3: I don't a profound interest in knitting. Of course I don't,

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Speaker 3: But suppose I did, Suppose I was that chick. Suppose

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Speaker 3: I join it, and then there's a person in there

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Speaker 3: who doesn't like the gays or who doesn't like black people,

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Speaker 3: like how then I would probably not show up again

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Speaker 3: because if they like her, I can't like them. So

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Speaker 3: how do you get around that way of thinking, to

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Speaker 3: open yourself up to the other maybe four or five

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Speaker 3: people that might have your values.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of the of making new friends. That's

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Speaker 2: the risk of it is you might uncover something or

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Speaker 2: even friends that we love and we have a lot

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Speaker 2: in common with, but then they betray you or something

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Speaker 2: happened even though you like it's so it's so earthquaking

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Speaker 2: because you're like, I thought I knew this person, but

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Speaker 2: then you realize your values aren't the same. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: I wanted that's actually one of the questions I wanted

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Speaker 2: to investigate of how do I know if I'm picking

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Speaker 2: good friends? You know, I have a tattered trail of

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Speaker 2: busted friendships, so like, was it me? Was it them?

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Speaker 2: And I learned that these are very common things, Like

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Speaker 2: this is so common. But what's not common is we're

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Speaker 2: meeting so many more people than our grandparents ever did.

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Speaker 2: And that's true. Yeah, I think of your grandma. You know,

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Speaker 2: my grandma was married at eighteen, never went to college.

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Speaker 2: You know, she was a stay at home mom. She

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Speaker 2: wasn't meeting friends and then being blasted apart from them,

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Speaker 2: and they're living all over the country and she has

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Speaker 2: to figure out how to keep up these connections. Her

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Speaker 2: friends were people she's known since first grade that all

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Speaker 2: lived in the same town their whole life. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just very different challenges than we have we we

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's part of the beauty and the burden

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Speaker 2: of modern friendship is we have so much more flexibility

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Speaker 2: with who we can befriend. Just think of the interests

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Speaker 2: we have that weren't even didn't exist right sixty years ago.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm really into Harry Potter. I'm into Harry Potter.

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Speaker 2: Let's be friends. And it's right. There wasn't anything like

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Speaker 2: that one hundred years ago that people could They've usually

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Speaker 2: got together over. You know, we're in the same religion,

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Speaker 2: were we go the same church. We you know, we're

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Speaker 2: in the same race, same gender, identity, shame roles in life.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're both mothers, we both aren't parents, So

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Speaker 2: it's harder for us to make connections with people where

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Speaker 2: that's not what we have in common. So what what

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Speaker 2: is what our friendship is about? Right? We have to

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Speaker 2: try a little harder. We don't have that built in

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Speaker 2: of oh, our kids all went to the same school,

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Speaker 2: or our kids grew up together. So the that's historically

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Speaker 2: new for women.

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Speaker 3: That's true. Like we my mother had the same group

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Speaker 3: of four women all my life and probably to the

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Speaker 3: end of her life. Mostly these were her best friends.

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Speaker 3: They met at church and I said to her her

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Speaker 3: after she died, I said, to her friend, who's still alive?

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Speaker 3: Who's I think she's ninety now, I said, missus O'Keefe, like,

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Speaker 3: what did you guys have in common? She like we

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Speaker 3: were moms like that. And I'm like, well, yeah, miss

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Speaker 3: o'keef's a badass, you know. So it's like, oh, all right,

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Speaker 3: so but I don't have that, you know. And also,

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Speaker 3: but I think what's funny is like I have my

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Speaker 3: co host of podcast, Nick and two other friends have

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Speaker 3: met every Tuesday for the last three years, which is

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Speaker 3: a long standing commitment. And it started out that I

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Speaker 3: was going to ostensibly help them with jokes. We don't

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Speaker 3: even open a notebook anymore. For the past like year,

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Speaker 3: We're just like vibe every Tuesday. The diner owner knows

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Speaker 3: to let us, you know, check ourselves out, Like he's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm leaving you guys, lock the door. And I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it did start with an activity or an interest, like

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Speaker 3: you say, which is comedy. And also my trigger of like,

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Speaker 3: oh I want to be involved is helping. I'm so

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Speaker 3: helpful to a fault, and it's a fault sometimes. And

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Speaker 3: then it did emerge that our values were similar and

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Speaker 3: that you know, nobody here is going to you know,

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Speaker 3: be a racist, or no one here is going to

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Speaker 3: be sexist, or yeah, we're going to joke around a lot.

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Speaker 3: But oh, we do kind of feel the same way

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Speaker 3: about life. So maybe just finding those people through joiny

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Speaker 3: kind of channels or community based things does lead to

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Speaker 3: something good.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And what could be helpful here is having the

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Speaker 2: right language. You know, friendship is such an ambiguous subject,

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Speaker 2: such an a friend is an ambiguous word of what

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Speaker 2: is a friend? What do we mean when we talk

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Speaker 2: about friends? There's best friends, you know, there's even two

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Speaker 2: different categories of friendships. There's active friendships and nostalgic friendships.

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Speaker 2: Of active friendships, we see them all the time. We

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Speaker 2: have a very compelling reason to stay in touch. But

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Speaker 2: we have our nostalgic friendships too, where there really isn't

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Speaker 2: a reason to be in touch even though we like,

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Speaker 2: we love them. You know, we'd go to you know,

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Speaker 2: a wedding, well, wedding, our funeral.

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Speaker 3: But that's funeral my age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Like you'd make the effort for those big events,

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Speaker 2: but there's not really a reason to call them on

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Speaker 2: a Tuesday. You don't have an active reason.

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Speaker 3: To be in touch, right. I almost think I tried

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Speaker 3: to force those things too much. I have several friends

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Speaker 3: and I'll put it in quotes because probably good to quote,

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Speaker 3: and says who live in Vegas. And I think I

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Speaker 3: had a fantasy that it would become like a yearly thing,

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Speaker 3: like I'd go out and we'd all hang out, and

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Speaker 3: it'd be these like it's two gay couples and myself

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Speaker 3: and my friend Bobby would go and we went I

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Speaker 3: think two or three years in a row, maybe, But

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Speaker 3: I was noticing we weren't getting squeezed in as much

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Speaker 3: as I thought we would. It would be just a

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Speaker 3: dinner versus the whole evening. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with this, just being a little nostalgic,

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Speaker 3: but also a little bit like, oh, they're not top

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Speaker 3: tier without making it sound so hierarchical, but that's okay.

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Speaker 3: It seemed at first like it wasn't okay, like well,

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Speaker 3: why didn't this happen? This was a total failure. It's like, no,

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Speaker 3: if you're ever out there again, you can hang out.

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Speaker 3: But if they're not top of mind all the time,

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Speaker 3: it's almost making a judgment free about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not taking it personally. Well, what's our

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Speaker 2: friendship about while we live across the country? You know?

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Speaker 2: Do I help these my friends in any practical way?

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Speaker 2: Do they rely on me for anything? And if the

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Speaker 2: answer is no, it's like, okay, well I can kind

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Speaker 2: of see why they're not making as much of an effort.

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Speaker 2: They probably have people closer to that that do help

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Speaker 2: them with running their lives, and the things that are

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Speaker 2: important to them are more important to them.

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Speaker 3: Right, So when you say the word help, do you

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Speaker 3: think that has a part in most good friendships? A

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Speaker 3: helpful sort of back and forth.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question. And there was a study

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Speaker 2: done in twenty twenty one that found that the five

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Speaker 2: reasons people tend to make friends our career mating what

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Speaker 2: they call desirable qualities, which means that someone's really fun

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Speaker 2: to be around. There's chemistry, and there's hobbies and passions

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Speaker 2: in common, like they's attractive to be their friend. Yes,

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Speaker 2: emotional support was the fourth reason, and the fifth is

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Speaker 2: what they call sociability, which is basically out and about,

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Speaker 2: like you want to be at the diner, be around

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Speaker 2: other people. You want to join the kickball league or

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Speaker 2: the book club, just to be in the mix. And

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Speaker 2: so when we talk about helping our friends, I find

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Speaker 2: it helpful to narrow down to those those spheres of

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Speaker 2: am I helping my friend with their career? If you

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Speaker 2: have a friend where you're not in the same career,

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Speaker 2: it can be like they might want to priority If

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Speaker 2: they really care about their career, they're probably going to

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Speaker 2: prioritize people that can help them with that thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was really like a light bulb moment for

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Speaker 2: me of like some of my older friends from childhood

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Speaker 2: of like, well, why aren't we in touch? But we're

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Speaker 2: in totally different We're totally separate career fields, right, So like,

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Speaker 2: what are we going to talk about? We usually talk

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Speaker 2: about our past, and how compelling is that? Well, maybe

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Speaker 2: every eight years you want to talk about the past.

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Speaker 2: It's not every.

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Speaker 3: Week, right, Oh wow, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 2: And with mating, that's a lot more like when you're

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Speaker 2: younger and you want to you know, have friends introduce

387
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Speaker 2: you to other people, want to meet people for other people.

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Speaker 2: But honestly, forty percent of people meet their partner through

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Speaker 2: apps dating apps, right, So it's not even like you

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Speaker 2: need friends anymore to necessarily meet.

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Speaker 3: It used to be where, oh, I have this great

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Speaker 3: guy in my college class and they'll introduce you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and now it's like you're just swiping. So friends

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Speaker 2: have sort of taken on. They're not as important in

395
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Speaker 2: that sphere. Emotional support is a well I just passed

396
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Speaker 2: them desirable qualities. Desirable qualities will always be always be attractive, yes,

397
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Speaker 2: but it also might be short lived. If we're into

398
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Speaker 2: marathons and then you break your leg, well, what's our

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Speaker 2: friendship going to be about? What we're going to do together?

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Speaker 2: So it needs more negotiation. It might there's potential it

401
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 2: might need more negotiation. Emotional support. If you know a

402
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 2: lot of women there their friendships are just running on

403
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Speaker 2: emotional support. But then you know if one friend has

404
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: a baby or has a health issue, where that can't

405
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Speaker 2: be the priority. I can't just give emotional support out right.

406
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Speaker 2: I have my own stuff going on, so this isn't

407
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Speaker 2: as compelling to me to be my emotional support from

408
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Speaker 2: my friend. So then it's like, well, what's our friendship?

409
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Speaker 2: Why should we be in touch?

410
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Speaker 3: That's interesting, Yeah, because I had a friend during the

411
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Speaker 3: pandemic and right before who I guess she was starting

412
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Speaker 3: a business and having a baby at the same time

413
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Speaker 3: and I was doing neither. So I remember I was

414
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Speaker 3: all really hurt and took it very personally that we

415
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Speaker 3: finally had arranged a phone call and she is like, Hi,

416
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Speaker 3: what's it been like six weeks since we talked? And

417
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Speaker 3: I like, I go, it's six been six months and

418
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Speaker 3: she's like no, I go, no, dude, I swear it's Lisa,

419
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Speaker 3: Like did you Like I wasn't being sarcastic. I was like,

420
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 3: that's who you're calling, Like it's been six months. It's like,

421
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 3: you gotta be kidding. And I said, look, I know

422
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Speaker 3: how hard it is because I have a niece who

423
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Speaker 3: just had a baby. I must be all consuming. You

424
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Speaker 3: have no idea, And I'm sure she's right, I'm sure

425
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Speaker 3: I have no idea or at least barely an idea.

426
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Speaker 3: And I said, well, maybe we could do something where

427
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: like I don't know, like check in every two weeks

428
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Speaker 3: or what. I don't have the bandwidth, I just can't

429
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: have anything more added, and like, I never heard from

430
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 3: her again. So I'm not saying I handled it right.

431
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: I'm not saying she handled it wrong or vice versa.

432
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 3: But I think when someone's focus is so elsewhere, they

433
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 3: don't have any time for any ancillary stuff. So it

434
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: just felt really sad to me.

435
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 2: You know, you know what I did when I was

436
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: faced with that situation with one of my best friends

437
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: who had two children during the pandemic. By the time

438
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: I finally sat down with her, it was about six

439
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 2: easily six months since we've seen each other, probably longer, honestly,

440
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: And the first thing I said to her before the

441
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: waitress even dropped off our menus, was I think about

442
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: you all the time, and I know you think about

443
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: me all the time too. It's okay. I know that

444
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 2: we're not able to see each other as much as

445
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 2: we want, but I'm always here for you. I'm not

446
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 2: going anywhere.

447
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 3: See that's why you wrote the book Mine would be

448
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: called you know.

449
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: It's just like, all right, but what the impact of that,

450
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: of giving my friend permission of I know that you

451
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 2: miss me, I miss you too. I know you wish

452
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 2: we could be together more, but it's it's okay, I'm

453
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 2: not going anywhere. The following year, for her birthday, she

454
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: said all she wanted for a birthday was a slumber

455
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 2: party with me, and she rearranged her life and we

456
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 2: had a slumber party together. But since I gave her

457
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 2: permission of saying, I under, I give you the benefit

458
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: of the doubt here. I love you, I'm not going anywhere.

459
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 2: Our friendship has now I do have that friendship I

460
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 2: wanted where we make an effort.

461
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's the problem, my issue of whether

462
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 3: it's a anxious attachment or whatever it is dictated, Well,

463
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 3: she probably doesn't think of me, Yeah, of course. And

464
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 3: it was just like, oh, handling it that way would

465
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 3: have not even dawned on me because I couldn't fully say,

466
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 3: I know, you think about me all the time. I mean,

467
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: because in my head, I'm an anxious attachment. So I'm probably like,

468
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 3: probably doesn't think of me, you know. So I think

469
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 3: that's okay to like grow from that and be like,

470
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 3: all right, So that was my shit to solve. And

471
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: that's why I like your book, because it like kind

472
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: of puts it on you to solve your shit too. Like,

473
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 3: it's not always about oh, writing a narrative about that

474
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: other person and how they've wronged you or how they've

475
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: ft you. You know, because I listened to your book

476
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 3: fully on a ride from This is Wild, because I

477
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 3: was so annoyed with a friend of mine that I

478
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: just was driving. I had thirteen hour drive. I'm like,

479
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 3: I'm going to find a friendship podcast. So I hear

480
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 3: you on I think Friendship Forward? Is it Danielle Byer

481
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,479
Speaker 3: Jackson's podcast, which is excellent? And I hear an episode

482
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 3: with you, and I'm like, oh, I like this bitch,

483
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: And then I like, go, does she have a book? Yes?

484
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: She does. So I listened to it on the thirteen

485
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 3: hour drive, and by the time I got home, I

486
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I kind of know so much more

487
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: about friendship. I know how to not handle this friend

488
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 3: I was annoyed with what not to say and really

489
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: just let her be her and not look for every

490
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 3: single thing in her that I thought she should have

491
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: putting in my direction, recognizing limits, like people have different limits,

492
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: which is why how important do you think it is

493
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: to have friends who are in your circumstances? Like, meaning,

494
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: should I have friends who are around my age retired,

495
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 3: so they have more free time in the helping pro

496
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: fashions like whatever it is, divorced or without a partner

497
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: and don't want one without kids, without grandkids. How important

498
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 3: would it be to find people or recognize people in

499
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: your same life situations.

500
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. I haven't thought of that

501
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: because I've been so focused on how desire works in

502
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: a friendship, and it's about what do we talk about? Yeah,

503
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 2: if you know, I have friends that are much younger

504
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: than me, and what I learned is I think that

505
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 2: we're better daytime friends nighttime. I prefer to be with

506
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: older people the money eat dinner at like five, right,

507
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: Like I'm not trying to eat dinner at nine, and then.

508
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: Listen, I know, I get it, I get it.

509
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to whip out an alka seltzer

510
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: after a hangout. Yes, but that's more lifestyle preference. Let

511
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 2: me think how important. It's not like I'd seek out

512
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 2: people that were my circumstance, but I naturally finds more

513
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: commonality and more might be more rewarding hanging out with

514
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: people who who mirror sorts of certain parts of my

515
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: identity that are important to.

516
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: Me, okay, yeah, that makes sense. It's just I it's

517
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: interesting because when you have a lot of friends who

518
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 3: are younger, which most of mine are, they have less

519
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: free time and less they're sort of still in the

520
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 3: career thing and in the your marriage thing or the

521
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 3: kids thing, and you're like, oh, are they gonna even

522
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: get what I'm talking about? You know, So it's almost

523
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: like you want somebody to fact check things with sometimes,

524
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: like oh, okay, you you understand how it is to

525
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: have a lot of free time and not as much

526
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: to do as you'd like. It's like, no, I don't

527
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 3: get that, Like how could they get it? So maybe

528
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: it's just if those develop naturally, they just develop, and

529
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 3: it's just it's like a hard thing to seek out.

530
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's part of the modern friendship challenge

531
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: is that we do have we're able to be friends

532
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: with more types of people, but the trade off is

533
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: that we might be in different life stages. Right, that's

534
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: the trade off of modern friendship. We don't have to

535
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: only hang out with people our age, but then the

536
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: trade off is you might have more churn because you're

537
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: in different parts of your life and experiencing different challenges.

538
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 3: Right, like, I love someone who can either say, oh

539
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 3: my god, I went through that too, or at least

540
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: have the emotional bandwidth to be like, I've never gone

541
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 3: through that, but I understand that might be tough, which

542
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: is why you know this thirty two year old friend

543
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 3: of mine, Bobby, just like he has enough emotional bandwidth

544
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: and works on himself enough with therapy and things that

545
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, I get that that must be hard

546
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: when such and such happens, even though I've never been

547
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 3: through it. Almost we just want to be as corny

548
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 3: as it is, just seen and heard and validated somehow.

549
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: You know, it'll be interesting when he goes through different

550
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: stages if your friendship is able to weather those changes too. Like,

551
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: that's really the the the modern friendship, like, the ultimate

552
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: modern friendship challenge is how do we surf these waves together? Right?

553
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: Because they are going to change, like we that is

554
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: certain of we will change. You know, studies show we

555
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: lose half our friends every seven years. Wow, and that's

556
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: a staggering figure. But it's also you know, we change.

557
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: The kinds of people we want to be around is

558
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: going to change as we go through different phases of life.

559
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: You know, now I'm aging into people where my my

560
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: friend's kids are teenagers and getting older. So to have

561
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: a friend with a baby is like I've already I

562
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: don't want to deal with something. Yeah, now like I

563
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: like the independent kids that I already know that and

564
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: being like an anti to them, and so my own

565
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: preference has shifted too. Of right, Oh, I don't want

566
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: to go that's not as appealing to me or as

567
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: compelling to me. But depends on who the friend is

568
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: and true what we're what we're are. Friendship's about.

569
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: So if people lose half their friends every seven years,

570
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 3: I up until recently was like, well, I must be

571
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: a failure because all my friends are from the last

572
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: or ninety percent of my friends are from the last

573
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: five to seven years. So there's something wrong with me

574
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: because I don't have the thirty five year friend. No,

575
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 3: because I and then you see a lot of tiktoks

576
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: that I love the TikTok of like if your friends

577
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: don't grow at the same rate you do or in

578
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: a similar path like they, you're not meant to be

579
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 3: friends anymore. So there's more permission around it. But I

580
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: always felt like, oh, there's something wrong with me that

581
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: I don't have because look at every movie, every TV show,

582
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: the childhood Besties and how that goes, and it just

583
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: was like, whoa, there's something that I'm doing wrong.

584
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: No, No, I literally want to like slam my fist

585
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: on the people, very nice sable of No, there's nothing

586
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: wrong with you. It's our culture of we move around more,

587
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: we move around more, and our identities are so much

588
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: more dynamic than they were. You know however many generations ago.

589
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: The things that you've done, the places you've been, the

590
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: kinds of people that could understand and relate to it

591
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: and respect it, Like I think, there's just that's something

592
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: a lot of people are experiencing. Is you know, if

593
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: you stayed in your hometown and just had the same

594
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: job for fifty years and were part of the same

595
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 2: church for fifty years, you probably could have the same friendships,

596
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: But would they be as dynamic? Would they be as

597
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: compelling to you? Would you want that?

598
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 3: Right?

599
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: You probably wouldn't. You probably want to find the people

600
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 2: that are like shaking things up and you know, are

601
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: obsessed with the same things you're obsessed with. So I

602
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: see you your past as as as a total triumph.

603
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: I mean it shows just how flexible you are, and

604
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: that you're meeting all different kinds of people, and these

605
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: relationships were not available to women in our age bracket,

606
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: not that long ago. This is historically new. You're a pioneer.

607
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: Well, it's true, because again, like I have a fantasy

608
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 3: that my mom's friendships were so great, and maybe they were,

609
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: but I don't know. Maybe they were very surface level.

610
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Maybe there was deep love there, but oh gosh, I

611
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't have much to talk to her about,

612
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 3: you know, these.

613
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: Older friendships, Like my grandma had her best friend from

614
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: first grade, and I always felt like sad I didn't

615
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: have it. But I also think there's a burden of

616
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: having someone so long where you feel like you have

617
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: to keep it up because it's been so long.

618
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: You're right, because I actually had a friend breakup I

619
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: talked about in the On the Other Friendship episode. We

620
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: knew each other for thirty five years and I ended

621
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: it when my mom got sick because of a small spat.

622
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: But clearly, looking back on it, it's like I was

623
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: such a caretaker the whole time, and it wasn't her fault,

624
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 3: it wasn't my fault. I was too helpful. I was

625
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 3: too advicey, I was too running to your rescue all

626
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 3: the time. And her part in it was that she

627
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: didn't say I'd rather that dynamic didn't continue, So we

628
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 3: were both at fault. But I was like, Wow, that's

629
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: weird to end a thirty five year thing and not

630
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 3: have feel some type of way about it.

631
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: You know, I think that's so relatable because we aren't

632
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: taught these skills. We aren't taught I mean, there's such

633
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: an importance on friendship, but there's no education around what

634
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: does that look like? What does that look like?

635
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: Right?

636
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: And friendships taking a step back isn't a failure, it's it.

637
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: It's really just part of modern life of what is

638
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 2: our friendship about? And is it compelling? And you know,

639
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: if your friendship was about emotional support, but the emotional support

640
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: wasn't healthy.

641
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 3: Yes, you didn't.

642
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: Have the knowledge to pivot or to say, well, you're

643
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: really important to me, I want to spend more time together.

644
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: Like what can I do to help you with your

645
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: life today? Like what can we do to reset? What

646
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: can we do to renegotiate this? Right? It sounds like

647
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: you didn't even know those were options available. There was

648
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: no language.

649
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: And that's what's funny, is all this self forgiveness for

650
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 3: not knowing those things, because even five years ago, I

651
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 3: didn't know that's how you talk, do you know what?

652
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: Like even now, I'm like I always say, I talk

653
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: to my straight guy friends a lot more abruply than

654
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 3: my female and gay friends because of just like, hey

655
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: fucking straighty, why didn't get a call back? It's like

656
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 3: I am still learning, like how you say things, and

657
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 3: so you can't be mad at yourself for the knowledge

658
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: it didn't have. But I'm always sort of like I

659
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: was that terrible. You just have to forgive it.

660
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: This is why I'm such an evangelist about friendship is

661
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: because you know, I start off my book with this,

662
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 2: the story about how I lost my dad to COVID,

663
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: and right before he died, six months before, he told

664
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: me that he was missing a childhood friend that they'd

665
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: fallen out of touch with, right and I wanted to

666
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: help my dad, just like you, I'm like, let me

667
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: solve it. I want to solve it. I'm a journalist,

668
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: let me solve this for you. And you know, I'm like, Dad,

669
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 2: here's his info, go write of an email, reach out

670
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: and my dad was so just crushed by anxiety, like

671
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: he was so afraid of what he didn't know what

672
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 2: the response would be, that he just didn't He talked

673
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: himself out of it. He didn't do it. And two

674
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: days after my dad died, I reached out to his friends,

675
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: and what I learned from and the news that my

676
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: dad had passed to him, it was it. These friendships

677
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 2: define us. And I know my dad did not have

678
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 2: many regrets, but the fact that there was this distance

679
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: from someone he cared so deeply about really bothered him.

680
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 2: And while my initial goal was to heal my dad,

681
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: what I ended up doing was healing his friend Wow.

682
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: And you know, his friends said like can I call you? Like?

683
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: Can I talk to you sometimes? Like you can call

684
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: me anytime. And we marveled that he knew my dad

685
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: the first half of his life, and I knew my

686
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: dad the second half, but together we kind of had

687
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: the complete more of a complete love for him.

688
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 3: Oh I love that.

689
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: So this is why I'm an evangelist about friendship, because

690
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: it is so deep, and the stories we tell ourselves

691
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: can really and interrupt the connection we're seeking. We can

692
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: we're craving connection with these people and if we can

693
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: under stand it a little bit better and understand how

694
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: people make decisions, now we can operate with more information.

695
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, because we didn't have that information.

696
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 2: No, this is some really new This is a really

697
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: new field of study compared to like romance, and you

698
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: know there's so many books about how to negotiate romantic relationships.

699
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: But this is a new, a newer field friendship. And

700
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: the research I did, I feel like it needs to

701
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: be shared and shouted from rooftops of this is what

702
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: modern friendship looks like. It does not look like TV

703
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: where you have monogamous friendships for twenty plus years, no friction,

704
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: Everyone stays in the same place and like even the

705
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: same apartments. It's like, that's not how people work.

706
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: I know. It's like I have the Golden Girls fantasy. Yes,

707
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: I have the Will and Grace fantasy, and like, it's

708
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: never quite that. But then if I really step back

709
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: and look at what I do have now, I'm like,

710
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 3: well it took me seven years, but I kind of

711
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: have like all those elements. They just don't look like

712
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: a TV show.

713
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: It doesn't look and TV shows are great when you

714
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: need an arc, yes, but friendships aren't like that. There's

715
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 2: no like, there's you know, they are more fragile. But

716
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: I also want people to know that they're more knowable

717
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 2: than it might seem it is knowable of Well, how

718
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: do people work? Why do they pull people close? Where

719
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: do I fit in with these reasons that they're looking

720
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: forward to make friends? What am I bringing to the table?

721
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: And then you can start increasing your chances? Like, if

722
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: our friendship is about emotional support, maybe I should learn

723
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: a little bit about how to give emotional support. Maybe

724
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: I should learn that giving advice and saying you should

725
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: do that, you should see my doctor, you should see that,

726
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 2: you should go there. Like that's dominating our friends. They're

727
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: not gonna like it. Yeah, So if this is what

728
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: our friendship's about, let me learn a little bit about this,

729
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: I can be a better friend to them. Let me

730
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: know where to like play the note to make the

731
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: music play?

732
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: Yes, and I want to Yes. I've recently just learned

733
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: that you're supposed to ask which it works? You know?

734
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 3: Do you just want to vent or do you want

735
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 3: any advice? Yeah, because honestly, most people just want to

736
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: be heard, you know. And if I want advice, I'll

737
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: ask us say, what do you think I should do?

738
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 3: Like people will ask. But see, that's the book is

739
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: modern friendship. Look at isn't this great? How I like

740
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 3: have my announcer voice on now. No, but the book.

741
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: That's why the book is like a lifesaver modern friendship.

742
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 3: It's the Bible. Get it. It's available everywhere. It's so

743
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: fucking good. It saved more than one of my friendships.

744
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 3: And they that person. Those people don't even know it

745
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 3: did because I'm stealthy. I just shifted my behavior because

746
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: of your damn book. So there we go. And so

747
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 3: what we're going to do is we take letters and

748
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 3: calls on the podcast. So Anna, I have letters that

749
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: Nick and I have answer about friendships, and I want

750
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: to see if we were on the money or totally

751
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: off the mark. So I'm going to read those two

752
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: if your game and see what your take is. Let's

753
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 3: do it, Okay, I hope you're smarter the neck because

754
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 3: most people are. Dear Lisa, my friend for the past

755
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 3: twenty years was my college roommate, but for the last

756
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 3: few times I hung out with her, I realized we

757
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 3: don't have much in common anymore. I have many friends

758
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 3: now that I would call before her if I needed something,

759
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 3: Do I need to replace her and name a successor?

760
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: Or can I just not have a best friend? Thanks

761
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 3: Maria in Savannah.

762
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 4: Wait, her options are yeah, so she either can replace her,

763
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 4: take applicants and like deem someone worthy of this honor.

764
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: That is like a really interesting way to look at it.

765
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 3: Okay.

766
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: What I'm hearing is that her friendship with this friend

767
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: went from an active friendship where they had a lot

768
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 2: in common. Yes, it's more of a nostalgic friendship where

769
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 2: they don't really have a reason to be in touch.

770
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 2: So it's more like the natural churn of these types

771
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 2: of friendships where what was there about as a roommates

772
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 2: probably going out meeting people. Yep, and you grew out

773
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 2: of it. It's okay.

774
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: I think that's the problem. We don't feel we have

775
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: permission to be like, oh, we're different, it's fine.

776
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: You know.

777
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: Social media really scrambles our brain because you see a

778
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 2: flattened list of everyone you've ever met from all different

779
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: parts of your life. And the reason social media feels

780
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: lonely is because you're looking through these people, but the

781
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 2: only share common history with you, not with each other. Right,

782
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: So it feels like you're going into different rooms and

783
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 2: closing the doors and closing the door, but you're not

784
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: with no one's traveling with you through these doors, right,

785
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: And social media is not reflective of your actual social circle.

786
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: You're getting way too much information about too many far

787
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 2: flung contacts that you don't really need to know your

788
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: fourth grade best friend, Yeah, third daughter just got a

789
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 2: gymnastics title. It's like, you don't need to know that. Okay, Yeah,

790
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: social media is convinced you that you need to know this,

791
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: but you don't. So long story short, is the way

792
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: that your social life should look like. You should have,

793
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: you know, three to five close friends. That's what studies say,

794
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: Oh okay, three to five close friends. And what feels

795
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 2: even better is if they consider you their best friend.

796
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 2: Three to five people point at you and say, that's

797
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: my girl, she's my best friend. That's the best place

798
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 2: to be in. So it's not just that you pick

799
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 2: best friends, it's that you befriend with people you admire

800
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 2: so that they would pick you as their best friend.

801
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 3: Yes, like I always say, I said last time, I

802
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 3: have three people who would say they like me best,

803
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 3: But I don't like them best. I like them best

804
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 3: as a threesome as a three so that sounds sexy,

805
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: but like I like them all, not one of them

806
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: is the best friend. So I think the problem here

807
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: is title that we think we have to have a

808
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 3: language around this thing. It could just be like, oh,

809
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: she's a nostalgic friend and that's cool. We don't need

810
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 3: to have a replacement best friend. Just make other if

811
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: you've made of their friends, and that's fine.

812
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like it's you know, it is sort of

813
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: like planting seeds of like let me see what you

814
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 2: can grow, let me see what what feels right for

815
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: me right now, let's what I'm interested in right now,

816
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: and then find people who are interested in that thing

817
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: and then see where it goes. Right.

818
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: Okay, Maria, you have your marching orders. Figure it out.

819
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 3: This one certainly had us in an opera, So this

820
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: is one of my hot buttons. Dear Lisa, I have

821
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 3: a few friends who say their husband is their best friend,

822
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 3: which I find insane. Same girl, because I don't even

823
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: want to look at my husband. Sometimes I feel like

824
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 3: I must be doing something wrong or are they just freaks?

825
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 3: Thanks Michelle Washington, DC. Now, I personally the way I

826
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: look at this is.

827
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 2: It seems like it's.

828
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 3: Fine to say your husband's your best friend or your

829
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: wife's your best friend, but not your only friend, because

830
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: I find that odd. I find that like looking for

831
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 3: one person for everything, feels wrong. But then here I

832
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 3: am spouting off about best friends. So I'm kind of

833
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: applying the same logic to that. So first of all,

834
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 3: what do you feel about people who say their spouse

835
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 3: is their best friend?

836
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: Well, I have a few thoughts on it. Research shows

837
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: that men usually identify their significant other as their best friend.

838
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what we said, because men are stupid.

839
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead, like how women? I mean, women are awesome.

840
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 3: Yes that's true.

841
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: I'm gonna roll with her. Yeah, But for women, it's

842
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: usually a significant other and a best friend. Women usually

843
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: have two in their most intimate tear.

844
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: That is absolutely true.

845
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: So it is that that alone requires negotiation of you know, women,

846
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: they're in let me start over. Studies also show that

847
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: in midlife, women tend to want more interdependence with their friends.

848
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: They want to be a part of their friends' lives.

849
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 2: They want a care and nurture. Men tend to want

850
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 2: more independence from their friends because they don't want to

851
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: be criticized or judged. Wow, because men are assholes to

852
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 2: each other. So just with that, that's what you're dealing

853
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 2: with when you're best friends. A guy is he's probably

854
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: retreating from his other guy friendships, but women tend to

855
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: still want to maintain their other friendships with other women

856
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 2: generally speaking, really speaking, I think that it could be

857
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 2: more helpful to understand the roles we talked about. Tim

858
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: rat Sorry, Tom Rath wrote a book called Vital Roles,

859
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 2: and he helped me see that. Well, my husband's my companion.

860
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: I go out for dinner with him, we share bills.

861
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 2: But my best friends play different roles for me. You know,

862
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 2: I have a best friend who's a mind opener. She

863
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: always tells me new bands or like new movies I

864
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 2: should watch.

865
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: Wow.

866
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: Leaves that role for me. And it's not that my

867
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: husband's more or less. It's like it's part of the

868
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: tapestry of our lives. And I think, if you're too

869
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: narrow about it, if my best friend's one person, it

870
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 2: really really should have like a web of friends that

871
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 2: play different You play different roles for two sure, So

872
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: my book can help you understand those roles better and

873
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 2: help understand where people in your life fit in. But

874
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: I don't think it's accurate for women to say that

875
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: their husband's their best friend. I would kind of want

876
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: to sit down with her, give her a glass of wine.

877
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I do think women need more than that.

878
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 3: Be just like a you write a web of people

879
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 3: like because every good relationship I can think of that

880
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 3: I know of, or that they present as good. I

881
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 3: see them both having other friends. You know, that sort

882
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 3: of us on a lifeboat thing is weird to me

883
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 3: in this day and age.

884
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: It is weird.

885
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: I get it for like years ago, Like, okay, I get.

886
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: The appeal of like, I don't want to have to

887
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 2: rely on other people. People are unpredictable, people can betray you.

888
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 2: People can you know, when you've had trauma. I can

889
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: see how it would be a relief to be like

890
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to have to care about other people, right,

891
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: But that's not how we're built. Humans aren't built to

892
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,760
Speaker 2: be marooned alone.

893
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 5: Like.

894
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: We need other people, and you know the chemicals that

895
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: are released when you help other people. It feels so

896
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 2: good to be needed. I mean, we have to figure

897
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: out the boundaries around that, of course, But we're designed

898
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 2: to help other people, and that that's just a gift

899
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 2: you give to the to the universe of you have

900
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: some any talents, and you're deeply caring of good integrity,

901
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: Like don't you want to share that with other people?

902
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 3: Correct? And I think what's funny too, is whenever I'm

903
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 3: looking at my friends and their husbands, I don't want

904
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 3: to be thinking, Wow, I can't wait till he dies

905
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 3: so that we can just be best friends, you know

906
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 3: what I mean? And again, most of my friend's husbands

907
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 3: are really cool, or else they wouldn't have picked them. Like,

908
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 3: they're deep, they're spiritual, they really are just gentlemen. No one,

909
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 3: none of my friends is with a douchebag, because then

910
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: it actually fades out For me. I always a'm like, yeah,

911
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 3: he is an act of alcoholic that's not right for me,

912
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 3: and you picked him, so you gotta go. Yeah, but

913
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 3: I shouldn't want all my friend's husbands to die, so

914
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 3: we're going to work on that privately. Okay, here's another

915
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 3: one highly suggests here seventeen oh seventeen's hard from Portland.

916
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 3: I know you probably roast me for being dramatic, but

917
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 3: I'm stressed every show I watch yeah, has that one

918
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 3: amazing best room duo? And I have acquaintances people I

919
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: sit with at lunch. Everyone's like, oh, your best friend

920
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 3: should feel like family, and I'm out here like, okay,

921
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 3: what if I'm the side character in everyone else's story.

922
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 3: I try to put myself out there, but people are

923
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 3: either flaky, weirdly intense, or just kind of meh meh?

924
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 3: Is it okay to feel like I've missed out on

925
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 3: the magical relationship front? Is it normal to feel like

926
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: I missed the magical friendship boat? Or do I have

927
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: to wait until college and hope someone shows up who

928
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 3: gets my weirdness? And the first thing I was like,

929
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 3: a poor thing. You're seventeen. I mean, honestly same, I

930
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 3: felt this way. Oh I'm the second one in command

931
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 3: to everybody, but I'm never anybody's first, but I feel

932
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 3: with this one. There's time you think, well, the.

933
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 2: Great news is is that your best friendships are ahead

934
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 2: of you. I mean, certainly, you know seven, It sounds

935
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: like this person's doing everything right. That's what you do

936
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: at seventeen is you try a bunch of different friend groups.

937
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: You see who are your people? You get it wrong,

938
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 2: You pick the wrong people and you get your heart broken.

939
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: Like yep, that is the goal. It's not to be

940
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 2: locked in, it's to try different things. I don't think,

941
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: you know, it's a shame that TV has propagated this.

942
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: Yes of you know, the soul meet the like one

943
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: twin flame or whatever.

944
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 3: Oh I got literally twin flame, like literally yeah, because

945
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 3: every movie you see with the uh there was that

946
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 3: one where it was a great movie and it was

947
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 3: about where the two girls had to drive to get

948
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 3: Plan B the pill and there was like the two

949
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 3: girls in I think it was that movie eighteen, I

950
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: can't remember, but it's always like two weird besties. Yeah,

951
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 3: maybe you're weird bestie. You find them at fifty.

952
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 2: And also sometimes friends are good enough. Sometimes you try

953
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: the weird friend and then you realize you don't have

954
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 2: the same values and then it crashes and burns and

955
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I valued them for these reasons. We

956
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 2: like the same bands, we like the same this, but

957
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: we actually don't have that much in common with our values.

958
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: So this person is right where they should be. I

959
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 2: do not think they should beat themselves up. I think

960
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: if they want to understand friendships more, they're welcome to

961
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 2: read my book and as a preview, here's how people

962
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 2: make decisions with their time. And maybe a better goal

963
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 2: is who can I help with things that I care about?

964
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: Like I really care about oh, you know being in plays? Well,

965
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 2: who else is doing plays? How can I pitch? And

966
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: it helps? And then that can grow. You have to

967
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 2: put yourself in a position to grow, you know. Another

968
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 2: thing is our personalities really impact to a befriend Researchers

969
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 2: call this trait agreeableness, and agreeable means that you think

970
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: people are generally trustworthy. You're more likely to befriend people.

971
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 2: You know, big birds agree. If you're Oscar the Grouch,

972
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: She's like, well, I don't know if people are out

973
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 2: to get me. I better like watch my bag. Like,

974
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: if you're more guarded, it might be harder to stick

975
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: around long enough to meet to let friendships grow, right,

976
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 2: So I guess i'd want to know about their personality,

977
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: like if you're open help people with things they care about.

978
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 2: That's the short the shorthand.

979
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 3: That's a great point because if you're joining into help

980
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 3: at planned parenthood, you probably have values that line up

981
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 3: and maybe something will spark with one of the other

982
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 3: people who is volunteering. Also, you know, it makes a

983
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: lot of sense. If you're volunteering in a soup kitchen,

984
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 3: you probably have at least something in common. Yeah, you know.

985
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,959
Speaker 3: And I think my problem and might be hers too,

986
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: is like everyone has to agree on everything and they're

987
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 3: all going to be We're all going to be a crew.

988
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 3: It's gonna be like Cheers, Like Cheers. Wasn't like Cheers.

989
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 3: Stop with the TV and film shit. That's the problem.

990
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 3: We're not side characters. We just have to figure out,

991
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 3: what you know, how to be a side character with

992
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 3: some and a main character with others and then not

993
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 3: a character at all in some things.

994
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

995
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 3: Well said, There's one last question I have for you

996
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 3: that Nick and I discussed. How about this, Dear Lisa,

997
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 3: my best friend doesn't consider me her best friend. Oh

998
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 3: she picked someone else to be her maid of honor

999
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 3: even though she was mine at my wedding? Do you

1000
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 3: think this matters? Do we both have to be each

1001
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 3: other's number one? Emily in Vancouver is confused. What do

1002
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 3: you think again, this artificial constructive best friend? What do

1003
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 3: you think especially around a wedding? That's do you find

1004
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 3: with the wedding stuff is just so highly charged adds

1005
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 3: this other layer.

1006
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: It totally adds this layer. It's very public, and it

1007
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 2: feels like a statement about your worthiness as a friend.

1008
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: It's like a public assessment of right. You know, I

1009
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,919
Speaker 2: would encourage not knowing anything about this friendship, not knowing

1010
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: anything about this friend if she explained to you, like

1011
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: I wish I could pick you as my bridesmaid, but

1012
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 2: you know, I have to pick my sister in law,

1013
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 2: or like, you know, I've been really deepening my friendship

1014
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 2: with this woman, and I see another role for you,

1015
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 2: Like what if you were to do this? Like, I

1016
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: don't know how she framed it. It's not surprising, like

1017
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 2: things like that happen in weddings.

1018
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 3: Do you think something like that is enough to tear

1019
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 3: a friendship just apart? Oh, I picked you, you are

1020
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 3: not picking me.

1021
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 2: I could. It doesn't have to be that way, but

1022
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: I could understand it happening because I think there's a

1023
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 2: grieving there of this friendship isn't what I thought it was. Oh,

1024
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 2: and so she's probably reeling from that of I thought,

1025
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, I was. I mean, I've had that happen

1026
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 2: of someone I thought I was a best a best

1027
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: friend didn't invite me to be a bridesmaid. I don't

1028
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: know why. Maybe she thought, oh Anna's really poor, she

1029
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 2: can't afford to fly out, and she, you know, I

1030
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 2: was living at home with my parents at the time.

1031
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: Maybe it was she thought it was a kindness that

1032
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,720
Speaker 2: she wasn't, you know, signing me up for endless trips

1033
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: and dresses like I don't know. She didn't explain to

1034
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 2: me why I wasn't picked, And it did have a

1035
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 2: cooling effect on the friendship if I didn't feel like

1036
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 2: I wanted to invest as much because she didn't invite

1037
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 2: me right in her wedding like that, and I just it,

1038
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 2: really I lost confidence in the friendship. So I understand

1039
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: it sure now, knowing what I know about friendship and

1040
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 2: feeling like I'm more emotionally mature, I realized weddings have

1041
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: so many layers of like obligation. Sometimes it's not always

1042
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:56,240
Speaker 2: a meaningful statement, it's just how the cookie crumbles. For instance,

1043
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: I got married at thirty nine, which as old as fuck.

1044
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 2: I had like crows feet.

1045
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 3: My second one was at fifty, so I get a girl.

1046
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thirty nine, and I didn't invite any

1047
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 2: of my friends from childhood. It wasn't practical. It's like, well,

1048
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: you're gonna fly, don't fly in, don't worry about I'm

1049
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: thirty nine, right. They probably could have interpreted that as

1050
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 2: me making a statement about but really our friendships were

1051
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 2: more nostalgic at that point than active. And actually one

1052
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 2: of my best best friends didn't even attend to my

1053
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: wedding reception. She had work. And I could have interpreted

1054
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: that as, Wow, I'm not mean enough to you, you're

1055
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 2: gonna work on my wedding. And here's what I did.

1056
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: I said, I totally get it, I love you. We'll

1057
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 2: celebrate on our own, and she sent me champagne some glasses,

1058
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 2: and she gave me a really nice gift, and because

1059
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: I was so understanding, she wanted to continue being my

1060
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 2: friends into the future. We're still best friends.

1061
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 3: So I think it comes down to a lot of it.

1062
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 3: Is that not taking it personally, yes, because and also

1063
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 3: the honest conversation too, of like we got invited. My

1064
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 3: sister's best friend's kid is getting married in a very

1065
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,439
Speaker 3: remote town that it would cost her family probably six

1066
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 3: thousand dollars to get to. And my sister's not poor,

1067
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 3: but she's like that's a lot, and it's a long journey,

1068
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 3: and she thought about it and thought about it, and

1069
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 3: just they had an honest discussion. She said, you know

1070
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 3: how much I love you. You know how much I

1071
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 3: want to celebrate your kid, but that's too much money

1072
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 3: for us right now. And like the lady didn't take

1073
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 3: it personally, and it's great when you can have that talk.

1074
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 3: I think a lot of this comes down to communicating,

1075
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 3: which everything does, acceptance of where they are, accepting where

1076
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 3: you are, and not taking it personally. Because every I

1077
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 3: have a notebook on it that says a notebook of

1078
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 3: imagined slights, because everything someone does is a slight to me,

1079
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 3: you know, And that's usually no one's really thinking about

1080
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 3: you in the right way. Like they're not going, oh,

1081
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,439
Speaker 3: I'm going to fuck her over, I'm not sure enough

1082
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 3: for that wedding. I'm working instead. No, she's thinking I

1083
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 3: got to earn a living.

1084
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's people would want to be friends with

1085
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: someone who's more flexible, thinking right, someone who gives them

1086
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 2: the benefit of the doubt and who doesn't, you know,

1087
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 2: take issue. I learned I want to be the kind

1088
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 2: of friend that people want to keep around. So how

1089
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 2: do I modify my behavior and my making so that

1090
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 2: these friendships can continue. But I've been on both sides

1091
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 2: of it, and I've been very hurt by it, and

1092
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 2: I've also been very flexible. And I got you, girl,

1093
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: I get how important your job is to you. I'm

1094
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 2: cheering you on. We'll celebrate another time. Like I've been

1095
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: on both sides of it. So it really depends on

1096
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: the friendship.

1097
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 3: And I think also a lot of it is us

1098
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 3: not wanting them to earn it. Meaning I have a

1099
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 3: friend who like I love Ever since the election, I

1100
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 3: was like, I'm gonna thrift and I'm going to buy

1101
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 3: vintage in secondhand and I'm not control reading to this

1102
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 3: fucking economy. And we went thrifting one day and I

1103
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 3: fucking loved it because I don't care what I find,

1104
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 3: Like I'm a smaller size, so I'm like, oh, you know,

1105
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 3: this is easy, man, I'll find shitloads of stuff. And

1106
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 3: I texted her yesterday about doing something and I go, oh,

1107
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 3: we can like run to Goodwill, or we could go

1108
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 3: to thrift at the place, or we could shop here there,

1109
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 3: and she's like, well, thrifting's not really for me, so

1110
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: but we could always find a cute town to shop in,

1111
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 3: and I'm like the old me, which is probably six

1112
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: months ago, would have been like, I'm not important enough

1113
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 3: for you to run into good Will. You have to

1114
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 3: earn my you know what I mean. It's like, if

1115
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 3: I was really important, you would be among the smelly

1116
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 3: clothes in the rack, you know, And it's like, Noah,

1117
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 3: she shouldn't. It's proving yourself that gets you in trouble.

1118
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 3: I've tried to prove myself to people that I'm indispensable

1119
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 3: and flexible, and really then it crumbles because I'm not

1120
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 3: being real. So I think it's just going eh, maybe

1121
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 3: there's the other friend who likes the thrift places, or

1122
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 3: maybe it's just it's Oh. I hate that everything is acceptance.

1123
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:15,479
Speaker 3: Everything is accepting people how they are, because it's they're

1124
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 3: not going to be anything else.

1125
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: I also like that your friends out of people pleas.

1126
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: There she didn't just say yes.

1127
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 3: The bitch is never a people please.

1128
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: It's like, here's how I really feel, and that's the

1129
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 2: kind of love and respect and good boundaries. I want

1130
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 2: to see you. But here's when I'm I'm saying no

1131
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 2: to this, but I still want to see you.

1132
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 3: Yeshing else because such a similar thing happened with the

1133
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 3: same person two months ago, when she had mentioned a

1134
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 3: very bougie store that I didn't want to go to

1135
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 3: in a very bougie town. I'm like allergic to those places. Now.

1136
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 3: I used to live in those places. I don't like

1137
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,439
Speaker 3: being around rich white people exclusively, and I just go, oh, gosh,

1138
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 3: I don't like those kind of places anymore. Can we

1139
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 3: skip that one? And said, sure, I don't care. So

1140
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 3: I think it's this whole thing of like going, oh,

1141
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 3: I have to keep proving yourself to be authentic.

1142
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 2: And that makes the friendship even stronger because then you

1143
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: trust that you're not you're telling each other you're honest. Yeah,

1144
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 2: and that only enhances a friendship.

1145
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Anna, are you kidding me? You're like

1146
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 3: the thinking expert. Now, thank you so much for doing this.

1147
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 3: This was so generous of you to come in and

1148
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 3: to come up to the studio. It's a pain in

1149
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,439
Speaker 3: the ass. I totally appreciate it. So I think we're

1150
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 3: like at least acquaintances at this point. Oh my god.

1151
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 2: Yes, feel so lucky to know you.

1152
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 3: You're so welcome.

1153
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 2: I love that you're you're sharing my work with other people.

1154
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 3: Of course, it was literally hilarious. I was like, we

1155
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 3: don't have guests on this show. Way, Anna's going to

1156
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 3: come in because like, I fucking want to know so

1157
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 3: much about this subject, you know, so we'll do it again,

1158
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 3: it again. Well I have eight thousand more questions, So

1159
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 3: thank you so much once again. In the book is

1160
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 3: modern friendship? Where can they find that?

1161
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's anywhere everywhere?

1162
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 3: And also where can they find you on social media

1163
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 3: et cetera.

1164
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 2: You can find me at Anna gold Fire on Instagram.

1165
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 2: Very substack friendship explains.

1166
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 3: Oh fuck, how do I not know about this?

1167
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 2: I have a fun substack. It's just standagoldfar dot substack

1168
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 2: dot com. But I was it was recently called wise

1169
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 2: but silly, and I'm like that that encapsulates, and you know,

1170
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 2: I just really share friendship tidbits and I want I

1171
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 2: want people to feel empowered and feel optimistic.

1172
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, oh I will read that. And also, you're

1173
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 3: a really good writer. Like there's a lot of books

1174
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 3: out there, a lot of advice, a lot of kind

1175
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 3: of deep dives into these issues. But I'm like, oh,

1176
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 3: you're entertaining. You're a good writer. Having been a journalist

1177
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 3: years ago, I'm like, oh my god, this is interesting.

1178
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 3: It's written so I get enough information, but it's also

1179
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 3: good narrative A lot of I love story. I love

1180
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 3: that you put yourself in there a lot so works

1181
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 3: for me. Sign off, get it now, and thank you

1182
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 3: seriously so much for coming in. Dude, You're you're a light.

1183
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 2: My pleasure.

1184
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,439
Speaker 3: So listen. Here's where I play, and try to where

1185
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 3: I talk, and try to sound very spontaneous. Thanks for listening.

1186
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 3: Oh it's so fucking unsincere or insincere. Also thanks for listening.

1187
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 3: Be sure to email. Hey Celia, why don't you do this? Shit? Well,

1188
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 3: you're sitting there doing nothing? You know, you're sitting there

1189
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 3: playing with you your fucking twat. Get over here, earn

1190
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 3: your keep? Why don't you read it? And we're leaving

1191
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 3: all this in by the way because it's funny. Oh wait,

1192
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 3: why aren't you using the golden microphone? That's the powers

1193
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 3: that be? Oh dun dun, duh. Okay, so do you

1194
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,959
Speaker 3: need the script? Shit? How can I criticize you if.

1195
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 2: I don't see?

1196
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is Celia, our producer, who I imagine

1197
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 3: has been doing nothing the whole time, except being on

1198
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,919
Speaker 3: TikTok watching watch me get Ready videos. I wish, wait,

1199
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 3: wait get how is it get ready with me? G

1200
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 3: r w at so oh stupid? And she watches people

1201
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 3: get dressed. I don't get it. I don't like it.

1202
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 3: These kids, this age will never be friends with you.

1203
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:09,959
Speaker 3: Just kidding. Our values are the same.

1204
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, okay, thanks guys for listening.

1205
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 3: You're welcome.

1206
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 5: Be sure to email us your questions at shrink this

1207
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 5: Show at gmail dot com.

1208
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 3: Wait, how do you spell that?

1209
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: You don't know?

1210
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 3: How how do you spell that?

1211
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 5: Cell y'all s h r I n k t h

1212
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 5: I s s h o W.

1213
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: That's two says back to back.

1214
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,919
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm so confused right out.

1215
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 5: So shrink this show at gmail dot com The Dread

1216
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 5: and Smart Laugh. Make sure to follow Lisa on all

1217
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 5: socials at Lisa Lampanelli Yes, and make sure to continue

1218
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 5: to listen to Shrink This on your iHeartRadio app or

1219
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 5: wherever you get your podcasts.

1220
01:05:56,200 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 3: Tun Up. We have just elevated ourselves from bitchy coworkers

1221
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 3: to besties. Thanks again for listening to Shrink This with

1222
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 3: Alisa Lamanelli.

1223
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 2: Bye,