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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail Woods. Present it by First Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Mark Kenyon, and this week on the show, we're diving

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Speaker 2: into the wisdom fill parenting philosophy the Klay Newcomb's leaned

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Speaker 2: down as he's introduced his four children to the hunting lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 2: to you by First Light, and this week we are

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Speaker 2: continuing our series on parenting outdoor kids, and specifically today

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Speaker 2: spending a lot of time talking about introducing your children

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Speaker 2: to hunting. And our guest today, as I mentioned at

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Speaker 2: the top, is the one and only Clay Newcomb. If

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Speaker 2: you are not familiar with Clay Newcomb, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: You must have been living under a rock or something.

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Speaker 2: Clay is one of my colleagues here at Meat Eater.

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Speaker 2: He's the host of the Bear Grease podcast, host of

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Speaker 2: the Bear Grease road Show on the Media to YouTube channel,

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Speaker 2: and I think one of our foremost thinkers, speakers, and

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Speaker 2: storytellers within the hunting and outdoor community. He's a just

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Speaker 2: a wise man. He is full of intuitions and insights

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Speaker 2: and ideas and fascinations that I think we all can

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Speaker 2: learn from. And so today that was my hope, is

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Speaker 2: that we could get my friend Clay here to share

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Speaker 2: a little bit of his experience in his journey as

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Speaker 2: a dad and trying to introduce his kids and teach

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Speaker 2: his kids about hunting and using hunting as an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to grow young men and women. And he's had a

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Speaker 2: lot of experience doing it. He has four children, two girls,

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Speaker 2: two boys, and the oldest of which is twenty one.

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Speaker 2: So he's been doing this for twenty one years now.

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Speaker 2: He has seen what has worked, he's seen what hasn't

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Speaker 2: worked as well. He has lived it, he's learned it.

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Speaker 2: He has a lot to share. And man, I just

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Speaker 2: wrapped up this conversation with Clay. I think there are

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Speaker 2: some really really nice little gems here we can take

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Speaker 2: away from this. We're gonna learn some things about his philosophy,

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Speaker 2: and I think that is an important takeaway is that

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Speaker 2: you know there isn't necessarily a one right answer to

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Speaker 2: any of these questions about how to introduce your kids

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Speaker 2: to hunting or fishing or the outdoors. There's no specific

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Speaker 2: correct way to do any of these things. But if

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Speaker 2: you can develop a philosophy, if you can develop a

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Speaker 2: set of values or processes that you go through that

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Speaker 2: will inform how you make these decisions, that will guide

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Speaker 2: you as you go through life with your son or

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Speaker 2: daughter and experience all that the natural world has to

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Speaker 2: throw at you together. Having something to fall back on,

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Speaker 2: a foundation, some set of ideas that help you make

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Speaker 2: decisions throughout life. That's going to be helpful. And Clay

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Speaker 2: shares with us his and I think we can all

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Speaker 2: borrow from it in part, maybe in whole, to help

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Speaker 2: us on our own journeys as mothers, fathers, and as hunters.

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Speaker 2: So that's our conversation today. It is fun, it's insightful,

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Speaker 2: and actionable, I think would be the last way I

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Speaker 2: would describe it. So with that out of the way,

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Speaker 2: I don't think we need to be labor this anymore.

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Speaker 2: I think we should just get to my chat with Clay.

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Speaker 2: It's a good one and I hope you enjoy it

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Speaker 2: all right here with me now on the line, we

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Speaker 2: have the one and only Clay nukembe Clay. Thanks for

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Speaker 2: being here. Hey, Mark, I appreciate it, man, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: appreciate you making time to do this. You are a

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Speaker 2: busy man with a seemingly endless supply of Bear Grease

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Speaker 2: episodes to record in all sorts of adventures. So thanks

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Speaker 2: for clearing the schedule.

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Speaker 3: It's all hype, man, don't tell anybody, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's not hard. I just, like you know,

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Speaker 3: roll into work just whenever I want and don't travel much.

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Speaker 3: It's easy, Mark, This is no big deal.

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Speaker 2: You know what. You're good at a lot of stuff, Clay,

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Speaker 2: but Lion is not one of them. Hey, what's what's

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Speaker 2: the word on that Country Life? How's stuff going on

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Speaker 2: that so far for Brent and you?

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Speaker 4: Oh, man, it's it's I think it's going really well.

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Speaker 3: So at the time we're recording, there's three episodes of

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Speaker 3: this Country Life which have come out, which are the

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Speaker 3: host of that show? Is my good friend your friend too,

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Speaker 3: Mark Brent Reeves. Brent's from Arkansas. Brent's kind of been

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Speaker 3: on the Bear Grease cruise since the beginning, not officially,

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Speaker 3: but he's been involved in my podcast for a while

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Speaker 3: and just a longtime friend. And so he now has

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Speaker 3: a podcast. It's short, it's twenty minutes long. It's a monologue,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of funny. It funny folksy teaches you a

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Speaker 3: little bit, and just a real lighthearted, little little narrative

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Speaker 3: about country living man. And it's going good. We're getting

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Speaker 3: a lot of good feedback on it. And it's on

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Speaker 3: the bear Grease feed So it's like part of kind

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Speaker 3: of the bear Grease world, kind of like Foundations is

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Speaker 3: for you and Tony Yep exactly.

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Speaker 2: So Brent had an episode talking about the different things

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Speaker 2: in his pocket. Right, has that made you at all

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Speaker 2: any more self conscious about what's in your pocket? Or

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Speaker 2: have you have you started thinking about that a little

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Speaker 2: more now that folks are probably asking you about that,

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Speaker 2: you know what? Brent?

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Speaker 3: He sometimes people in media might like exaggerate the stuff

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Speaker 3: that they do. Like for example, they might talk about

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Speaker 3: all the stuff they carry in their pocket, but really

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Speaker 3: on any given day they might not actually have that stuff. Brent,

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Speaker 3: for real, for the last forty years has literally carried

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Speaker 3: all that stuff in his pocket. Anything you do with him,

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Speaker 3: you can be like, hey, Brent, where's that buckeye, and

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Speaker 3: he's got the buckeye, which is shocking to me. He

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Speaker 3: always has his case knife, he always has his pocket.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's not a joke what he did me

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Speaker 3: Mark Man. Any given day, it's a wild card what

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Speaker 3: I've got in my pocket. I don't have any routine,

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Speaker 3: but I have been influenced by Brent, and I have

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Speaker 3: been carrying a pocket knife, which honestly too much people surprise.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I don't always have a knife on me, and

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Speaker 3: I'm a little ashamed to say that, but it's just

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Speaker 3: the truth.

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Speaker 4: But I have been carrying a case case trapper.

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Speaker 3: With me nice last month or two because someone gave

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Speaker 3: me one, and I've actually really, I really like it.

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Speaker 2: I've been torn on the knife thing. I've always had

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Speaker 2: this little keychain knife. It literally looks like a key,

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Speaker 2: but it has a little tiny knife that folds out

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Speaker 2: of it. So it's very handy to have. You know,

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Speaker 2: I don't open a package or cut a you know,

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Speaker 2: small piece of rope or something in a pinch. But

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Speaker 2: I've debated bringing an actual, nice, bigger folding knife with me,

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Speaker 2: and I'm always off and on about that. I'll carry

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Speaker 2: it around sometimes and it seems like bulky when you

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Speaker 2: don't need it ninety percent of the time, but that

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Speaker 2: ten percent when you do, it's really nice to have

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Speaker 2: that larger, more functional piece. So I don't know, you'll

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Speaker 2: have to tell me what the report is after a

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Speaker 2: few more months, Carrien hears.

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Speaker 3: What I've what I've learned about carrying this, this pocket

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Speaker 3: knife I've been carrying is it's it's almost like just

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Speaker 3: having something to do with your hands, like I'm holding

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Speaker 3: it right now, not even I think I was holding

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Speaker 3: it before we even started talking about this, Like I

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Speaker 3: just kind of I just kind of fiddle with it

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Speaker 3: all day, and it's I'm just conscious of it, and

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Speaker 3: it's that's it's almost like you just use it, like

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Speaker 3: not as a functional knife, but it's just like something

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Speaker 3: to to fiddle with.

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Speaker 4: That's that's that's bad. Maybe that's maybe this is not

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Speaker 4: a good crutch, but I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It could be better than some things I used to. Uh.

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Speaker 2: I used to spin my cell phone as like a

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Speaker 2: fidget thing. I would just spin it in my fingers

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Speaker 2: and that led to me dropping it and having some

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Speaker 2: damage several times. So knife is a better option. Ah

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Speaker 2: On the topic of hand though, other than what's in

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Speaker 2: our pocket, clay. As you know, I'm doing the series

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Speaker 2: about parenting outdoor kids, talking about you know, we spend

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Speaker 2: so much time on this podcast talking about how to

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Speaker 2: hunt deer, how to hunt, how to kill deer, how

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Speaker 2: to how to pattern deer, how to do all this

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff, and we'd like to sess over all that.

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Speaker 2: But I frequently think, why don't we? I shouldn't say that.

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Speaker 2: I don't frequently think this. I think about this sometimes

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Speaker 2: and tell myself I should be thinking about it more often,

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Speaker 2: Which is how come we don't spend as much time

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Speaker 2: debating and discussing how to get our kids and teach

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Speaker 2: our kids about this stuff. Why don't we spend as

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Speaker 2: much time doing that as we do obsessing over where's

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Speaker 2: this big buck going to be tomorrow? Or how old

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Speaker 2: is this buck? Or what pinch point will be the

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Speaker 2: right one. So that's all to say. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: give it some attention because I'm assuming you would say

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Speaker 2: this would be true for you too, that as a parent,

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Speaker 2: once you do become a father or a mother, it

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Speaker 2: totally changes your priorities. It totally changes everything about how

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Speaker 2: you experience the outdoors. But a lot of times we

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Speaker 2: just kind of go along with the flow and we

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Speaker 2: figure stuff out, and we don't actually explicitly talk about

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Speaker 2: this with other people, like how do you do this?

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Speaker 2: Or how do you do it right? Or how do

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Speaker 2: you do it wrong? Or what are some lessons we

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Speaker 2: can learn? And I don't know if that's just because

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Speaker 2: everyone's experiencing it and so we don't feel like we

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Speaker 2: need to talk about it, or if or if maybe

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Speaker 2: it's because there's no real way to claim expertise on

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Speaker 2: the topic. I don't know what it is, but well,

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Speaker 2: I mean tell me this, Clay, would you consider yourself

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Speaker 2: an expert on teaching your kids how to hunt or

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Speaker 2: fish or be outdoors people?

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Speaker 4: No? I No, I don't. I don't know that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know that.

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Speaker 3: It's a it's a it's a categorization that could be

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Speaker 3: labeled expert or not expert.

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Speaker 4: Because it's such a.

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Speaker 3: It's such a it's such a complicated thing because we're

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Speaker 3: always well, let me step back. I think it is

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Speaker 3: good for us to talk about this stuff and for

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Speaker 3: every parent to think about it consciously, because anything we

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Speaker 3: don't think about consciously, don't discuss, don't have some philosophy

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Speaker 3: and even more than a plan, it's a philosophy, and

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Speaker 3: that's different like a plan is like we're gonna A

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Speaker 3: plan is more.

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Speaker 4: External, like we're gonna do this, this, and this.

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Speaker 3: A philosophy is a is an ideology of why we're

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Speaker 3: doing what we're doing. And so if you don't have

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Speaker 3: a plan and a philosophy, then you you result. You

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Speaker 3: fall back to your default, which every one of us

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Speaker 3: has a default way that we deal with our kids,

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Speaker 3: which is often very flawed. And the thing about parenthood

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Speaker 3: and mark your parent, I'm a parent and we were

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Speaker 3: both parented by parents, is that is that anybody on

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Speaker 3: planet Earth can look back at and see the places

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Speaker 3: where their parents got stuff right, but also the places

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Speaker 3: where their parents got stuff wrong.

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Speaker 4: And the idea.

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Speaker 3: Is that you would be able to ethically look back

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Speaker 3: to your parents they did and be like, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna do something different. They tried hard, you know

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Speaker 3: most of the time, most in general, most parents are

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Speaker 3: trying pretty hard.

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Speaker 4: Some aren't.

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Speaker 3: But and you can say I'm going to do something

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Speaker 3: different than they did, and then I'm going to take

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Speaker 3: the good things and replicate that. But if you're unconscious

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Speaker 3: of that you just can replicate negative patterns, and so yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: I think I think we got to take this serious.

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Speaker 3: And I think there's some kind of tropes out there

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Speaker 3: about how to introduce kids to the outdoors that are

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Speaker 3: just not that productive, And yeah, I want to we

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Speaker 3: can talk about those things for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we definitely do it. I love that point you

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Speaker 2: make about how you know, I think parenting can be

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Speaker 2: based on a philosophy, not necessarily like a set of

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Speaker 2: steps or a strategy, but a philosophy that you can

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Speaker 2: always fall back on or or I got to believe

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Speaker 2: that that is also informed by like a value system. Right,

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Speaker 2: there's all these things that come down the line that

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Speaker 2: maybe we haven't experienced before, but we have a philosophy

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Speaker 2: or a set of values that we can lean on

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Speaker 2: to guide us, to help us make those new decisions

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Speaker 2: or you know, kind of weather this unfamiliar territory. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I want to get into what your philosophy is, what

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Speaker 2: some of those negative tropes are. But before that, I

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Speaker 2: want to first get a little more context. I'd like

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Speaker 2: to personally even just better understand a little bit of

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Speaker 2: how your early years built you to who you are

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Speaker 2: and led to the parent that you are now. You

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Speaker 2: mentioned this idea that a lot of us, for some

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Speaker 2: of us, it's the only real training we had in

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Speaker 2: parenting is just looking back on how we were parented,

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Speaker 2: right as you just mentioned, and probably for all of us,

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Speaker 2: we can think of good and we can think of bad.

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Speaker 2: What do you remember about your childhood, Clay, What those

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Speaker 2: early years were like when your dad or other family

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Speaker 2: members or friends were helping introduce you to hunting and

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Speaker 2: the outdoors. What stands out as being those formative experiences

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Speaker 2: or lessons.

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Speaker 3: So I can talk pretty freely about this because I've

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Speaker 3: talked very freely about it with my with my dad,

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Speaker 3: who everybody in the Bear Grease world knows because he's

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Speaker 3: on my podcast a lot. He's I have a I

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Speaker 3: have a great relationship with my dad, and and so

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Speaker 3: I would have I was born in seventy nine, so

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Speaker 3: I grew up in the eighties, you know, as a

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Speaker 3: as an adolescent and teenager in the nineties, and the

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Speaker 3: the idea of introducing kids into the outdoors, the philosophy

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Speaker 3: of the age was very different back then, and and

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Speaker 3: the philosophy was there was very little coddling, There was

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Speaker 3: very little actually trying to make an experience pleasant for

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Speaker 3: a kid. It was it was more just like, Hey,

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Speaker 3: if you're gonna go hunting with me, this is where

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Speaker 3: it's gonna go, and this is the way it's gonna be.

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Speaker 4: And it wasn't like our dads were jerks.

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Speaker 3: It's just that's just I mean, like my dad, he

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Speaker 3: worked a regular job and could only hunt on the

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Speaker 3: weekends and didn't hunt very much on Sunday, so he

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Speaker 3: kind of had like one day a week to hunt.

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Speaker 3: He was a very serious bowhunter for what he had

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Speaker 3: and so man, he wasn't gonna let much get in

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Speaker 3: the way of him doing what he needed to do

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Speaker 3: to kill a deer, you know, during the postseason on

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Speaker 3: public land in Arkansas. And so I had to just

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Speaker 3: kind of get with the program. And both of my

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Speaker 3: brothers didn't really like that program too much. And I

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Speaker 3: think Dad would say, you know, he was probably pretty

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Speaker 3: pretty hard to deal with back in those days. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he just wasn't very accommodating, and honestly, I don't know

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Speaker 3: that either of my brothers would have ever been that

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Speaker 3: interested in it. And I'll kind of get into that

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Speaker 3: a little bit later when I talk about I don't

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Speaker 3: think all of our kids have to be hunters, nor

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Speaker 3: do they want to be hunters.

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Speaker 2: Yea.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm not sure if he'd have done stuff different,

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Speaker 3: if if the results would have been any different, because

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Speaker 3: I have two brothers that don't hunting is not a

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Speaker 3: big part of their lives. They both have hunted, and

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Speaker 3: one of them is kind of getting back into it.

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Speaker 3: But now, my first memory of bow hunting was the

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Speaker 3: first time my dad actually took me out to hunt

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Speaker 3: and I could.

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Speaker 4: I had a bows in the fourth grade.

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Speaker 3: It'd been shooting, could pull forty pounds, was legal to hunt.

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Speaker 3: Dad took me out and put me in a tree

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Speaker 3: stand way before daylight, and Mark I got, well, he

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Speaker 3: puts me in the tree stand. It's like, man, I'll

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Speaker 3: be back at ten o'clock and it is black dark.

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Speaker 4: And how old he's going.

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Speaker 3: I was in the fourth grade, so I would have

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Speaker 3: been I think, nine years old. And he's not like

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Speaker 3: going like one hundred yards on the ridge. He's getting

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Speaker 3: in this truck and driving, you know, miles to some

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Speaker 3: other place. And and I got scared to death and

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Speaker 3: just started crying, I mean straight up crying. And it

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Speaker 3: was a terrible experience, and he ended up taking me

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Speaker 3: down and just kind of like leaving me in the

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Speaker 3: truck while he went and hunted, and uh it it

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Speaker 3: it was very traumatic for me, but I kept hunting

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Speaker 3: with him and he did accommodate me a lot after that,

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Speaker 3: but it was a negative experience. And so anyway, I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of guys my age, your age would

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Speaker 3: would probably have fairly similar experiences of dads that were

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Speaker 3: just pretty hardcore, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, so I love these stories of your childhood

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Speaker 2: with your with your dad. I like to joke about

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Speaker 2: how me and Gary would have got along real well

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Speaker 2: when it came to deer hunting because we were on

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Speaker 2: the same pronom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Ye, but you told me when I was down there

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Speaker 2: hunting with you guys a couple of years ago and

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Speaker 2: I was talking with your dad, you had told me

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Speaker 2: some of this, and you talked about kind of your

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Speaker 2: dad's attention to detail and obsessiveness with things like scent

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Speaker 2: control and and really having a detailed deer hunting program,

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Speaker 2: and how his obsessiveness on that side of things actually

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Speaker 2: drove you away from that style of hunting and that seriousness.

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Speaker 2: Can you can you expand on that a little bit,

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Speaker 2: A little bit, how like these experiences you had early

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Speaker 2: on shaped who you then became as a hunter.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so he my dad, you know, his philosophy,

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Speaker 3: just to sum it up, would be to control the

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Speaker 3: things that you can control to the t.

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Speaker 4: And he grew up in the Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and actually that's my philosophy too. It's

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Speaker 3: just it's my emphasis is in a different place. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And and so he grew up. He in the nineties

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Speaker 3: kind of came of age and became a really good

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Speaker 3: deer hunter for hit, for our area and for what

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Speaker 3: he had and and a lot of that revolved around

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Speaker 3: sink control. And so he just was like hyper meticulous

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Speaker 3: about sink control. And he was kind of a gear guy.

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Speaker 3: He loved gear, He loved tweaking on tree stands, he

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Speaker 3: loves I mean, my earliest memories of bow hunting are

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Speaker 3: being out in our.

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Speaker 4: Yard at our lighted outdoor.

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Speaker 3: Archery range, shooting our bows at like eleven o'clock at night,

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Speaker 3: trying to get dialed in to go hunt the next day.

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Speaker 3: And it's not like we waited till the last minute.

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Speaker 3: It just thirty years ago, bows were just.

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Speaker 4: Different than they are now.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you just had to shoot all

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Speaker 3: the time to stay consistent. And anyway, Dad loved tweaking

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Speaker 3: on gear, and so that made me be ultra simplistic

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Speaker 3: in my gear. Like if you sat down and meet

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Speaker 3: with me and start talking about deer hunting, the last

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Speaker 3: thing I'm interested in is gear. People are like, what

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Speaker 3: kind of setup do you have? And I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I do know. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm very proficient in the woods, so you know, I've

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Speaker 3: got some fundamental understanding of gear, and but but it's

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Speaker 3: not what I get excited about. I don't get excited

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Speaker 3: about tinkering with bows, and I don't get excited about

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Speaker 3: all this kind of in my mind, the man made

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Speaker 3: side of deer hunting than honting. I get very excited

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Speaker 3: about being in the woods, hunting strategy in the woods.

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Speaker 3: And and so I wouldn't say I certainly wouldn't say

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Speaker 3: I'm any less serious. I mean, in some ways I'm

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Speaker 3: more serious than my dad, but my focus was in

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Speaker 3: a different place, and absolutely it came from his obsession

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Speaker 3: with it. And it's funny because my son bar Newcomb,

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Speaker 3: who's become a really good deer hunter, himself. He is,

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Speaker 3: he's kind of gone the other way back towards like

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Speaker 3: he talked to Paul and it's like, man, Grandpa, I

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Speaker 3: think you got this figured out. I think my dad's

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Speaker 3: kind of kind of light on the details when it

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Speaker 3: comes to some of this stuff. So, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: like this pendulum swinging.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: But but no, I think generationally we we learned and

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Speaker 3: there's a whole lot of stuff that I absolutely are

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Speaker 3: fundamental to who I am and how I bowhunt that

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Speaker 3: came from Gary Nukem, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So so to overgeneralize and correct me if I'm

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Speaker 2: overgeneralizing this too much. But if I were to say,

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Speaker 2: what were some of the things that didn't work so

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Speaker 2: well for you? It was maybe, you know, being pushed

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Speaker 2: into your dad's way of doing things too much, to

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Speaker 2: too much of a degree, and maybe sooner than you

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Speaker 2: were ready. Would you say, if you had to kind

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Speaker 2: of really simplify some of the challenges of Gary's approach,

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Speaker 2: that kind of shaped you for better or for worse.

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Speaker 2: On that side, I think that was the challenge, was

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Speaker 2: that was maybe that side of things.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm not entirely sure I can I understand fully

400
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Speaker 3: what you're saying there, I didn't kind of develop my

401
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Speaker 3: own world until I was grown. Like, I did everything

402
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Speaker 3: he asked me to do and wanted me to do.

403
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Speaker 4: And that's the only reason I.

404
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Speaker 3: Was successful when I was young was because I just

405
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Speaker 3: I went with his plan. But then when I started

406
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Speaker 3: hunting on my own and moved away, I was like,

407
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Speaker 3: you know, I could do things a little different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let me rephrase that question, Claire, real quick. If

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Speaker 2: you were to look back on your childhood and the

410
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Speaker 2: way your dad introduced you to these things, if you

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Speaker 2: had to point your finger at what worked and what

412
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Speaker 2: didn't work, could you point me at a couple of

413
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Speaker 2: things on each or one on each side of that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to say that what he was

415
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Speaker 3: doing didn't work. And maybe I'm still understand your question

416
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Speaker 3: back because his system worked great for him, and it

417
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Speaker 3: was more just about how we wanted to hunt that

418
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Speaker 3: was a little different, So I'm still not I mean,

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Speaker 3: like the difference in us today would be primarily the

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Speaker 3: way we handle scent control.

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Speaker 4: Is is that kind of what you're leaning towards?

422
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Speaker 2: More so what worked for you as a kid when

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Speaker 2: you were learning to hunt and learning to be an outdoorsman,

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Speaker 2: and your dad was trying to teach you these things,

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Speaker 2: or whoever else you were hanging out with that was

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Speaker 2: teaching about these things and bringing you in. I'm curious

427
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Speaker 2: that what were the things that seemed to connect with you,

428
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Speaker 2: like what got you into the outdoors? What were the

429
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Speaker 2: things that your dad did that made you be like, man,

430
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Speaker 2: I do want to be a hunter. Man, I love this.

431
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Speaker 2: This is how I learned some stuff. And then what

432
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Speaker 2: were some of those things that Gary did or didn't

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Speaker 2: do that made you think like I don't really want

434
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Speaker 2: to go out and do this or this was traumatic

435
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Speaker 2: you know, or are the examples of that From a parenting.

436
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: Perspective, Well, I would say the dominating theme of my

437
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 3: childhood with my dad was very positive, I mean, very

438
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 3: excited about deer hunting. He was he he he portrayed

439
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 3: it to me in a very appealing way. The way

440
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 3: he talked about it, the way he dealt with it. It

441
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: was clear to me that this is something that was

442
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: highly that he highly valued, and so I wanted to

443
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: highly value it. And and I would say that's probably

444
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 3: the uh. Well, and aside from just the excitement of of.

445
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 4: Killing deer with a bow.

446
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 3: When I was young in in our area, very few

447
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 3: kids were. I mean, for real, I was probably the

448
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: only kid in my grade that was killing deer with

449
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 3: a bow consistently in high school and stuff. And oh

450
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 3: there was a lot of accolades that came from that

451
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 3: and satisfaction.

452
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 4: And it was all just because.

453
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 3: I was I mean, my dad was putting me on deer,

454
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 3: you know, and we were easing I mean, we were

455
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 3: hunting public land. It wasn't like we're hunting over feet

456
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 3: nobody was hunting over feet back.

457
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 4: And so yeah, he did a.

458
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 3: Fantastic job of portraying this lifestyle and just the camaraderie

459
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: he had with his friends. All that was great. And

460
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: I can't really point to anything he did wrong other

461
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 3: than just I mean, for real, I don't know that

462
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 3: he did it wrong.

463
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 4: It just was what he had to deal with.

464
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 3: I remember one time on Saturdays, if we went with him,

465
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: we hunted pretty far away from our house, and so

466
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 3: if you were committed to go, you had to hunt

467
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 3: all day. And I remember one day I wanted to

468
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 3: come back to some kind of school get together in

469
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 3: the afternoon, and so I went with him that morning

470
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 3: and then I was like hey, dad, can I go home?

471
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 3: Which meant he would have to go home, and he

472
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: took me home. I remember it was kind of like,

473
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: what you want to go home? But he accommodated me

474
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: on that. I remember that, which would have been hard

475
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 3: for him because he got had to skip out.

476
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, he.

477
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 4: Did a lot of stuff, right. I don't know if

478
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 4: that answers your question, Mark, No, that does?

479
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: That does? Is there anything now that you're a dad

480
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 2: yourself and you've been one for twenty one years? Is

481
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: there anything that you can point directly back to your

482
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: dad as as something that you've carried forward with your

483
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: own kids. So something your dad did with you that

484
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: when you became a father, you were like, man, I

485
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: gotta do the same thing with my boys or my

486
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 2: daughters when I'm teaching them to hunt or bringing them

487
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: outside or whatever it is.

488
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 4: He was.

489
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 3: He was very intentional with teaching us what was going on,

490
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: Like he wouldn't. I still see, like competent fathers doing

491
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff today is just like taking a

492
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: kid out and just putting him in a tree and

493
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: letting him hunt without teaching him.

494
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: I had friends that I went to school with.

495
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: Whose dads did that and they killed deer, you know,

496
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: with rifles and stuff. And we me and that kid

497
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: would go out in the woods and they would have

498
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: no clue really what was going on in deer hunting.

499
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 3: And I would be like, man, we got to find

500
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: some tracks and trails and scrapes and rubs and funnels

501
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 3: and pinch points and and and you know, and I

502
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 3: would just be like talking a different language because Dad

503
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: trained me that way. So, so, really, teaching your kid

504
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 3: to be a woodsman, and that's what I have really

505
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: tried to do, and haven't haven't some some kids are

506
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: going to be very receptive to that and others less receptive.

507
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: But giving him, you know, he gave me the tools

508
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: that I needed to be a successful hunter and trained me.

509
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 3: I mean he trained me, you know, very intentionally as

510
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,239
Speaker 3: a young kid. And I've tried to do that.

511
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you do you feel like, maybe you don't

512
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: know the answer to this, but do you feel like

513
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: your father took the same approach with your two brothers

514
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: and it was just that they were just a different

515
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: personality types, so they weren't receptive or was there something

516
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: else that led to them just not connecting with this

517
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: lifestyle the way it has for you.

518
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he did. I think he would have

519
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: had the same approach with them. They just kind of

520
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 3: had less interest from the beginning. I feel like they

521
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: did and he And that kind of goes into one

522
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: of my points, Mark, is that every kid is different,

523
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: and so you to give them all a chance, you

524
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 3: kind of got to have a different strategy with each

525
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 3: of them. And I think he did have the same

526
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 3: strategy with all of us, like exactly the same and

527
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: so and I just had a natural tendency to lean

528
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: into all this stuff, and my other brothers they just

529
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 3: didn't as much. And that's what I've seen with my

530
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: kids is the way I treat bar Nukem, who he's

531
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: now seventeen and really is a competent hunter. I mean,

532
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 3: you could just turn them out of the truck just

533
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 3: about anywhere and say, hey, go kill an elk, go

534
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 3: kill a bear, go kill a deer, and I feel

535
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: like you'd have a pretty good chance. He just understands

536
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: what's going on, and I'm much harder on him. I'm

537
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: just very different with him that I am the other

538
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 3: kids that are also hunters but just aren't as interested.

539
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 4: As Bear is.

540
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: And I would be a little more accommodating to them.

541
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 3: I would not be as a as aggressive in planning

542
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: with them, you know. And so that goes to that

543
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: one of the things that I wanted to bring up

544
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 3: is just like every kid's different and you got to

545
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: treat them different.

546
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 4: You know.

547
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: Is it a situation in your experience with your kids

548
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: where you try to introduce them in the same way

549
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: and then see how they react to it, and then

550
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: you say, Okay, these two are on board with this,

551
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: but these two it's it seems like it's going to

552
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: be different, So I'm going to have to change my

553
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: approach or you know, how do you? I guess what

554
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: I'm getting at here, Clay, is what has been your

555
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: experience trying to assess each of your children and their

556
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: interest and how they're ready for the next thing, or

557
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: how interested or not interested they are, and how much

558
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: pushing or training or I don't know, what's that been

559
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:28,719
Speaker 2: like for you?

560
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: Okay, I think that there's there are eight There are

561
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: sectors of a child's development up until they're eighteen years old,

562
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: when the parental influence is different at different times from

563
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: zero to about eight years old. Mark, I don't I

564
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 3: didn't let my kids make very many decisions. I made

565
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 3: decisions for them, and I would I would be and

566
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: this isn't dogmatic. I didn't do this every time, but

567
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: to generalize, I decided when the kids went hunting with

568
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: me and when they didn't. So it wasn't like, hey,

569
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: do you want to wake up and go deer hunting

570
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: in the morning, you know, ask a seven year old.

571
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 3: I didn't get They're not ready to make that choice.

572
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 3: I would say, Hey, we're going deer hunting in the morning.

573
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: I'll wake up, We're have some breakfast, we're gonna we're

574
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: gonna go out, we're gonna have a good time. We're

575
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: gonna do this, and I would. I would basically interpret

576
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 3: for them what they needed to be doing to give

577
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 3: them the exposure that they needed. And then from about

578
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 3: eight to fourteen, you start giving them some more choices

579
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: because their preferences have begun to be formed and you

580
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: don't want to oppress them. But also they're not fully

581
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 3: making choices on their own. But that's when you might

582
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: be like, hey, we're gonna go fishing over here. Would

583
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 3: you like to come or would you like to you know,

584
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: go do X activity, and you know, you give them

585
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 3: a little bit more choice. There are times when you

586
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 3: would just be like, hey, we're going hunting in the morning,

587
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: this is the way it's going to go down, and

588
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: you just make them do it. And then you know,

589
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,239
Speaker 3: by the time they're about fourteen, fifteen.

590
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 4: To eighteen, there's a.

591
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: Lot more choice, a lot more choice with them. Son,

592
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: do you do you want to go deer hunting in

593
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: the morning? If you do, you know you need to

594
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: be up, you need to be ready. And so I

595
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: think our hunting is a great place to to implement

596
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 3: some of these just responsibility.

597
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: Things that the kids are going to have to deal

598
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 4: with in life. So I would.

599
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 3: Say, and then in each in each sector of that,

600
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: you're evaluating, you know, does this kid enjoy this? Do

601
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: you think they're gonna grow up and want to do this?

602
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: And my two boys are pretty different. Bear is just

603
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: naturally just like just interested wanting to learn. My second son,

604
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 3: he he loves to go. He's less interested in the details.

605
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 3: And I think he'll come back to hunting and it'll

606
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: be a big part of his life someday.

607
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 4: I really do.

608
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: He's I asked him the day, I said, Shepherd, how

609
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 3: many deer have you killed? And he said, he said,

610
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 3: he killed eleven deer and he's killed two bears. He's

611
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: coon hunted with me a lot, but it's not his

612
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 3: the driver of his life, you know, And you know

613
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 3: you just kind of perceive that. So I'm I treat

614
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: shepherd different than I do bear.

615
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: What about differences between between your boys and your girls?

616
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: You've got two of each, have you? Is there any

617
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: noticeable difference in this approach you've taken between the two

618
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 2: genders or is it just like child by child They're

619
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 2: all different their own ways, regardless of if they're boys

620
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: or girls.

621
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: I would say it leans toward the latter of what

622
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 3: you just said. My oldest daughter hunted with me when

623
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: she was young. She liked turkey hunting. She's killed deer

624
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 3: and turkey. But she was just from the very beginning,

625
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: I just knew she wasn't going to probably be a

626
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 3: real active hunter. We could just tell that, you know,

627
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: she just wasn't that interested in it. My second daughter

628
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 3: was very interested in it, and until she was about fifteen,

629
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 3: I would say she was She was probably the toughest

630
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 3: hunter of all the kids. Like if I was going

631
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 3: on a difficult hunt, that wasn't going to be much fun,

632
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: but wanted to take one of the kids.

633
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 4: I would have taken River.

634
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 3: And and she's still very interested in hunting. She she

635
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 3: moved off to go to college, and so she hadn't

636
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 3: hunted much the.

637
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 4: Last couple of years.

638
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 3: But I tried to treat them the same for the

639
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: most part. Unfortunately, as they've gotten older, it is a

640
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 3: little different with girls.

641
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 4: And you know, somebody could get mad at me for saying.

642
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: This, but.

643
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 3: I'm a little less comfortable with my girls going out

644
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 3: on public land. My girl going out on public land

645
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 3: by herself doing stuff. I just am It's just the

646
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: nature of the world we live in. And I've run

647
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: into that because at times there's been times in the

648
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 3: past when Rivers like, hey, I'm going to go out

649
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: and do this, and I'm like, well, okay, let me

650
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 3: think about that River where where I absolutely would let

651
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: my son do it. And uh, that's just the truth

652
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 3: of it, And it's an issue of safety and an

653
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 3: issue of context. River at times has wanted to take

654
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 3: the dogs out coon hunting at night by yourself on

655
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,479
Speaker 3: public land, and I've had to just be like, River,

656
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: you can't if barrow go it.

657
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 4: Did it y'all can go.

658
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 3: And and I think that's okay to acknowledge that kind

659
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: of stuff.

660
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, is there anything else you found over the years

661
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: with your two girls? Well, I guess you wouldn't have

662
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,959
Speaker 2: known until you had boys afterwards. But were there any

663
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: other things that had to shift with your approach with

664
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: the girls versus the boys, or when you had when

665
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 2: you started going through these experiences with your boys you realized, oh, wow,

666
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: I can do it totally different now. And that being

667
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: because your two boys are both younger than your two girls, right, that's.

668
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 4: Right, two older girls and two younger boys.

669
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So were there any other things where you realize, like,

670
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: this does require fundamentally different touch or or set of

671
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: you know, ideas, or could you apply the same general

672
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: philosophy across all four?

673
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: I think they were the same, Mark, I really do.

674
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: I I didn't treat the girls much different than the boys.

675
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 4: I really didn't.

676
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 3: I I just just tried to to to teach them,

677
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 3: tried to I did everything about the same.

678
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 4: I really did.

679
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one thing that I don't regret at all.

680
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: But I I only I only have boys, so I'll

681
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: never know what that is like or what differences may

682
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 2: or may not be there.

683
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 3: Come on, Mark, you're not quitting, honest, Sorry, Clay.

684
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: I try not to be a quitter, but this is

685
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: one phase in life where I am sign sealed and

686
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: dotted delivered. I'm done.

687
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay. There can be surprises.

688
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know the details of all the

689
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: medical procedures, but stuff happens.

690
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, we'll be having some stern conversations with the

691
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: doctor if that ends up being the case. Clay, you

692
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: hit on something a second ago, though, I want to

693
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: dive into more because it's one of the big questions

694
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: that I found myself wrestling with just in these first

695
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, five years of being a dad, and everyone

696
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: I've talked to so far on this topic I've brought

697
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: it up to, and that is this idea that you

698
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: discussed kind of early on with your children. How you

699
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: know hunting can be this opportunity to teach important lessons

700
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: like responsibility and toughness, and so as you describe when

701
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 2: your kids were younger, in your mind, you were saying, man,

702
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: they just need to get out and do this thing.

703
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,479
Speaker 2: They don't necessarily know why or how, but I'm gonna

704
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell them, Hey, we're going we're gonna be

705
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: out there at this time, we're doing this thing. So

706
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 2: there's that approach, there's putting your kids out there to

707
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: do these things and developing some toughness, some fortitude, some

708
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 2: developing some skills that will be important for them. That's

709
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: that's one side of the hunting equation that I think

710
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: hunting brings to the table for kids. There's this other

711
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: side that a lot of folks talk about, which is, well,

712
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: you got to keep it fun. You got to make

713
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: sure they're enjoying the experience. You got to let them

714
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 2: have some some choice in the matter, because if they're

715
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: not enjoying it, then you're gonna push them out of

716
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: this thing and they're not gonna want to do it anymore.

717
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: And so it seems like there's this balance between trying

718
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: to make the experience fun and enjoyable for them so

719
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: that they develop a passion themselves, versus using hunting as

720
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: an opportunity to teach important life lessons. How have you

721
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: thought about that dilemma or that balancing act and how

722
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 2: have you tried to approach that yourself.

723
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good that's a complex and a good question.

724
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 4: I think it all.

725
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 3: Goes back to these age brackets of kids and how

726
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: parents interact with the kids during these particular seasons of life.

727
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 4: My kids early on and early on in their life.

728
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 3: I was not full time in the outdoor industry, so

729
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: it's not like this was my job, but it was

730
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: very much a lifestyle that I was. I wanted to

731
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: live and so and Misty wanted to live. I mean,

732
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 3: our life revolved around us eating wild game, you know,

733
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 3: every day of the year, and being a family that

734
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 3: loved nature and interacted with nature. And so my kids

735
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: kind of I would like to think that they just

736
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: woke up one day and gained consciousness that not every

737
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 3: kid in the world had to do what they did.

738
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: It's kind of like it's just like if you live

739
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: on a farm, you wake up and you do the work,

740
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 3: and you do the chores, and this is just my life.

741
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: You know, a farm kid doesn't have an option to

742
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 3: be anything different. That's the way we kind of handled hunting,

743
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 3: and not that it was like a job.

744
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 4: But it's just like, yes, what we do, it's like

745
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 4: and I.

746
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 3: Made a very the one thing that you know, man,

747
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 3: when your kids are as old as mine, Mistery and

748
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 3: Mark almost I would say weekly, if not three times

749
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 3: a week, talk about the way we raised our kids

750
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: and things we did right and things that we did wrong.

751
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: And the one thing that we did right was for

752
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: a decade plus, anywhere I went unless it just absolutely

753
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 3: could not, I couldn't take a kid, which there was

754
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 3: certainly hunts.

755
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 4: I didn't take kids on.

756
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 3: But man, if I went to the grocery store, if

757
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 3: I went to bid a landscape job, if I went

758
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: to scout, if I went to do anything, man, I

759
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,479
Speaker 3: just was dragging those kids with me everywhere I went,

760
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 3: not for fun, just because they just needed to be

761
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 3: with me.

762
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: I wanted to talk to them. I wanted to teach him.

763
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 3: I wanted to just be having be there observing me

764
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: being a human. And that exposure today spent man that

765
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 3: like kids have phones and kids have parents think the

766
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 3: trend of the age is to think that kids have

767
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 3: all these options and you'll damage them if you don't

768
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: let them make choices.

769
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 4: And boy, the biggest mistake that I feel like I.

770
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 3: See parents doing is reasoning with a five year old

771
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: or reasoning with a four year old. You don't reason

772
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 3: with them, You interpret life for them and let them

773
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 3: know how things are gonna go and and uh, and

774
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 3: then as they get older and more mature, you begin

775
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 3: to introduce choices and responsibility and all these things. I'm

776
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 3: not answering your question directly, but basically, hunting. Hunting is

777
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 3: just it's just a platform to teach your kids about

778
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,479
Speaker 3: all kinds of stuff. And am I out there like saying, now, son,

779
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 3: this is a life lesson. When the acron falls from

780
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 3: the tree, it becomes no, it's just like get out there,

781
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: and I mean, you know we we we gotta work hard,

782
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 3: we gotta we we've got to understand.

783
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 4: I mean it just life happens, you know.

784
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 3: Just even hey, we're going hunting, Go get the drinks,

785
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 3: put them in the truck, and then come back and

786
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 3: get those ratchet straps out of the garage and put

787
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: them in the truck. I mean, just the exercise of

788
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 3: having a plan, doing it, acting on it.

789
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 4: There's just lessons all over it, you know.

790
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 3: And then the rare time when you're actually kill an animal, Yeah,

791
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 3: that's when you can be strategic about implementing ideology of

792
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 3: why we do this and taking care of the meat

793
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 3: and this is our food and this is healthy and

794
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 3: sustainable and good and this is a celebration and this

795
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 3: is you know, this is a pinnacle moment of our life,

796
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 3: you know, at an external level.

797
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I want to I want to dive

798
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: into two parts of what you just said there. But

799
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: first the I want to explore an example of this

800
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: whole toughness versus experience or fun versus toughness kind of situation.

801
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: And I want to see how you deal with this.

802
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: As an example, Let's say you were out there with

803
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: one of your boys when they were let's say six

804
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 2: or seven. This is that first phase of that parenting

805
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: child relationship you've described. Let's say you're out in the

806
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: hunt and you're sitting together somewhere and starts raining, and

807
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 2: it's cold and it's windy and it's rainy, and you've

808
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: been out there for a couple hours already and things

809
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 2: haven't been going your way. But in your mind, you know,

810
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: let's say we're turkey hunt maybe, and you know that, man,

811
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: if we stick it out till nine o'clock or ten o'clock,

812
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 2: there'll be that second wave of a gobbler starting to

813
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 2: cruise through, and you know it could pick up. So

814
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: in this situation, your son is cold and he's sick

815
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 2: and tired of it, and he says, Dad, I want

816
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: to go home. This is kind of miserable. In your mind,

817
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: would you say, all right, he's not having fun anymore.

818
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: We should get out of here to keep this from

819
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: becoming a miserable situation. Or would you say, nope, son,

820
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: this is this is how it goes sometimes, and in

821
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: your mind you're thinking, man, you're gonna better for it,

822
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 2: because you're gonna learn how to deal with being uncomfortable.

823
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: And we'll see how some perseverance, you know, leads to

824
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: better things. Maybe if we stick it out. What would

825
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: you do in that kind of situation.

826
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 3: It's totally subjective to what's going on in that kid's life.

827
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 3: I when Bear Newcomb was he was probably he was

828
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 3: probably eight years old. It was open today, Arkansas bear season.

829
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 3: I wanted him to be with me in the tree

830
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: when I hunted, and we went in and set for

831
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna say six hours. It may have

832
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 3: been longer than that, and it rained the last three

833
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: hours of daylight. And he was the kind of kid that.

834
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 4: Liked that.

835
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 3: He knew it was hard, and he enjoyed the feeling.

836
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: Like he was tough, and I was feeding him that.

837
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 3: You know, I was like, bear, man, I think if

838
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 3: we just set it out, I think we got a

839
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: chance of the bear. And you know, you know I

840
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 3: and he could tell that if he set it out,

841
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 3: I was gonna like that and he was going to

842
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 3: be tough and validated.

843
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 4: And he he bought into that.

844
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: And when we sat till dark, and to this day

845
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 3: we talk about that because we sat so long in

846
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 3: the dark that just waiting for a bear, just like

847
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: last light that people back at camp came to check

848
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 3: on us because they thought, surely they're gonna get down.

849
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 3: You know, it's raining. Something's happened. And to the boy bear,

850
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 3: the guy's back at camp were just bear.

851
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 5: You sat there the whole time in the rain, goy,

852
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 5: you know, And it became probably a really pinnacle moment

853
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 5: for him. Yeah, another kid of mine, I absolutely probably

854
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 5: wouldn't have done that.

855
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 3: It might have ruined him. It might have just made

856
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 3: them get back in the truck and be like this guy,

857
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 3: my dad is crazy. This is the last thing I

858
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 3: want to do. So it's tough, man, it's tough. You

859
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 3: got to feed them just the right amount of toughness,

860
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: and I think a lot of it would have to

861
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: do with what you agreed upon before and how you communicated.

862
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes it's like, son, we're going to go

863
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 3: out today and if you want to come, I want

864
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 3: you to come. But if we go, we're going to

865
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 3: sit till dark no matter what. You know, if it rains,

866
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: we're gonna be ready, We're gonna have some snacks. You know,

867
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 3: it's just about communication. And if they agree to it

868
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: and then get out there and want to change the agreement,

869
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 3: then you might have the leverage as a parent to

870
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 3: be like, son, we're going to sit it out, okay,

871
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 3: and you know this is what we planned and we're going.

872
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 4: To stick with it.

873
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 3: Or if you just went out and things went really

874
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: bad really quick, you might just be like, hey, man,

875
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 3: let's let's jump in the truck and go home. I mean,

876
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 3: your your kid has to trust you that you're not

877
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 3: that you're not going to just you know, put them

878
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 3: in a really tough situation that they weren't ready for,

879
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 3: so that it's such a complex situation mark you understand.

880
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 3: And then a lot a lot with even what's going

881
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 3: on individually with that kid, you know, Yeah, it's a

882
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a lot of contextual things that would

883
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 3: make that decision.

884
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: So you're telling me there's no simple step by step

885
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 2: handguide I can look at that's gonna give me all

886
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: the perfect answers for every situation. Cli that is exactly right, Mark, Yeah,

887
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: that Uh. This is That's why this parenting thing, I

888
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: think can't be talked about enough because there is no

889
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: one right answer. There's no clear cut way to do

890
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,479
Speaker 2: any of this stuff. It all comes down to case

891
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: by case context. It comes down to your kids and

892
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 2: the current moment in reading the situation. And and that's

893
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 2: why I think what you said at the beginning is

894
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: probably so important. Having a philosophy or a set of

895
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: values for like having a system, right, Like, you're not

896
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 2: going to have a rule book. There's not going to

897
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: be like a ABCD is always going to be the

898
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: way it goes. Every situation is going to be different.

899
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: We're going to encounter all these different circumstances. But if

900
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: we have a basic philosophy that we can lean back on, say, okay,

901
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: well I've never seen this before, but I do know

902
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: that A, B and C are really important to how

903
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 2: I make these parenting decisions, and I will run this

904
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: new circumstance through that philosophy, and that will give me

905
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 2: the way to approach this thing, right. I mean, I

906
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: think that's what we have to try to be building,

907
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 2: is building what our philosophy is and then learning how

908
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: to apply that to each new day.

909
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, Mark, I have I have four things here

910
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 3: that I think if I think I can say I'm

911
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 3: right now and to make sense in the context of

912
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: our conversation, I've got kind of some bullet point bullet

913
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 3: point statements about introducing kids the outdoors.

914
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 4: Can I run through those?

915
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: I would love to hear them?

916
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: Okay, Point number one and this would be on a

917
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 3: power point if I presented it to a group of people.

918
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 3: If you had said, Clay, I need to hear a

919
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: presentation about how to introduce kids to the outdoors.

920
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 4: What's important? These four things would be on it. Number one.

921
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 4: The parent, the adult has.

922
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 3: To be a whole safe person who a kid would

923
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 3: want to be around.

924
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 4: In general.

925
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 3: You know, this is like taking it way back, like

926
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 3: we could be talking about sports, like how to intro

927
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 3: produce your kids to sports, how to introduce your kids

928
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 3: to cooking, how to introduce your kids to horseback riding.

929
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 3: And the number one thing is is that you've got

930
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 3: to be a person that a kid would would would

931
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 3: want to be around and enjoy being around, you know,

932
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 3: because if you're if you're a tyrant, if you're if

933
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 3: you are dismissive, if you're not engaging with these kids,

934
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, you want to take

935
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 3: them hunting and be super engaging. And I think this

936
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: might be more of an example for like hunters outside

937
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 3: of a direct family that were maybe trying to introduce

938
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 3: a kid into hunting, not your own kid. It's just like,

939
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 3: I mean, if your kid doesn't want to go with

940
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 3: you to the grocery store, they're probably not going to

941
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 3: want to go with you hunting either, you know. So

942
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 3: that's like a fundamental thing. Part two would just be

943
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 3: every kid's difference. So you got to make it right

944
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 3: for them, you know, the idea that you got to

945
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 3: have be loaded with snacks and make it easy and

946
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 3: make it simple and make it fun. And that works

947
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 3: for some some it's not the best strategy. It certainly wasn't.

948
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 3: The strategy that got me into hunting was making it easy.

949
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 3: Some of my kids I've intentionally made it hard for them.

950
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 3: I mean, bear nukemb, we were hunting bears over bait

951
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 3: for years and years and that's just the way we

952
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 3: hunted bears. I intentionally told bar Nukem, because yeah, bear

953
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 3: hunting over bait is for sure a higher probability of

954
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 3: success than hunting out in national forest. I mean way

955
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 3: harder hunting a national forest. And bear could have killed

956
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 3: a bear over bait when he was six years old

957
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 3: and I told him, I said, son, I think you

958
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 3: ought to kill a bear in national forest for your

959
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 3: first bear. And so he every year watched his brothers

960
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 3: and sisters kill bears and other people, and he could

961
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 3: have gone and sat on a bait, and he didn't.

962
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 3: And he finally killed when a national forest when he

963
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 3: was fifteen. Like, we made it hard on purpose. But

964
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 3: my second son, I let him kill a bear over

965
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 3: bait when he was like twelve, so make it different.

966
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 4: And then.

967
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 3: Basically the philosophy that I would have would be that

968
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 3: I want to introduce the kids to the excitement of

969
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,479
Speaker 3: interacting with nature. That's what we're doing, and that would

970
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 3: be teaching them about the woods, teaching them about the

971
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: the trees, the mushrooms, the grass, the barn owls, the foxes,

972
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 3: the coyotes, the river systems, the mountains. You know, having

973
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 3: an understanding and interpreting that for them. I mean, a

974
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 3: kid drives, drives. You drive past a mountain, and a

975
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: kid doesn't know that that's cool. I mean drive past

976
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 3: the mountain and be like, look at that mountain, man,

977
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 3: And that thing was formed by when tectonic plates bumped

978
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: up against each other so long ago that humans don't

979
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 3: even have record of it. And and the top of

980
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 3: that mountain there's different animals that live up there then

981
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: live at the bottom. And on the north side of

982
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 3: that mountain there's a whole different set of trees than

983
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 3: is on the south side of that mountain.

984
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 4: That's wild.

985
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 3: Like just being excited about it, like interpreting for them

986
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 3: when you hear barred out, My goodness, did you hear

987
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 3: that barred out? And you know, so that's a philosophy.

988
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 3: It's like, I want my kids to to see value

989
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 3: and interaction nature. And then you know that comes down

990
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 3: to actually taking an animal and taking it home and

991
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: eating it. But the main thing that I would say

992
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,959
Speaker 3: is that not every kid is going to be a hunter.

993
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: And so, but what we want to do is leave

994
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 3: every kid that we interact with with a positive impression

995
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 3: about hunting in the natural world. So like, my oldest

996
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 3: daughter's not up, she's probably not gonna be a big hunter,

997
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 3: and she may never hunt again the rest of his life.

998
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 3: But my goal with her was that when she leaves

999
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 3: my house and she goes out into the world, she's

1000
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 3: proud that her dad is a hunter and that her

1001
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 3: family ate wild game, and that hunting is this positive

1002
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 3: thing in American culture. And that's what we can do,

1003
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 3: I think, with every kid, because they're just not gonna

1004
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 3: be hunters.

1005
00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 4: Like, you know, you take.

1006
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 3: Ten kids, it's probably about the national percentage of people

1007
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 3: that our hunters are gonna be hunters.

1008
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 4: I mean, you know you do.

1009
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 3: And I don't know what that would be. Two or

1010
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: three of them at most would end up having some

1011
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 3: connection to hunting. Seven of them aren't. But those seven

1012
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 3: that aren't can at least be like, yeah, my uncle

1013
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: was a hunter.

1014
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really cool. He was a pleasant human to

1015
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 4: be around.

1016
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 3: They they were they they dealt with this thing in

1017
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 3: a competent, intelligent way, and they wouldn't describe it like that.

1018
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 4: But you understand.

1019
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 3: So the goal is I just want my kids to

1020
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 3: have positive impressions of this lifestyle. And that's really meaningful

1021
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 3: in our broader society, as most people aren't gonna be hunters.

1022
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 4: We don't need them to.

1023
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 3: Be hunters, but we need and want people to view

1024
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 3: hunting for what it is, and it's this great platform

1025
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 3: for conservating wild places and wild animals, and it's not

1026
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: just this barbaric thing that is is dead and dying, you.

1027
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 4: Know, yea. So those are those are my four things.

1028
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 2: Those are great, Clay. I'm curious how you what your

1029
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 2: take is on how to handle that last point you

1030
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: brought up, that being the fact that not every child

1031
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 2: grew up to be a hunter, and you mentioned your

1032
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 2: oldest daughter is an example of that. I imagine this

1033
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 2: being a challenge as a parent trying to read that situation,

1034
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 2: trying to decide or understand, Man, is my kid just

1035
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: not that into it? And should I keep pushing it?

1036
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: Should I keep introducing it? Should I keep offering it?

1037
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 2: Should I keep trying to move the needle there? Or

1038
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 2: do I just need to accept this situation and recognize, Okay,

1039
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 2: Bill or Jenny or whatever she's she or he just

1040
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 2: is not. This isn't going to be their thing, and

1041
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: I just need to stop pounding it because that's just

1042
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 2: making it worse. What has either been your personal experience

1043
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 2: dealing with that with your daughter, or what would your

1044
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 2: advice be to someone else who might be trying to

1045
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: wrestle with that themselves right now? How do you understand

1046
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 2: that and deal with it?

1047
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 3: I think a simple answer to a complex question, as

1048
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 3: it goes back to those age brackets of parental influence

1049
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 3: inside of a kid's life. Your five year old is

1050
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 3: not capable really of deciding whether they're going to be

1051
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 3: a lifelong hunter or not. A sixteen year old has

1052
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 3: a much more robust understanding of whether this is something

1053
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 3: that's going to be a part of their life or not.

1054
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 3: Not totally, but they've got a much better understanding than

1055
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 3: of five year old. So you know, if your five

1056
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 3: year old doesn't want to go hunting and that's a

1057
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 3: big part of your life, I would say absolutely, don't

1058
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 3: give them a choice. Make them go with you, make

1059
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 3: it fun, Do make it fun, to accommodate them.

1060
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 4: But.

1061
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 3: Build it in is just this is well, and I

1062
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 3: think parents just give kids too much choice. Your kid

1063
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 3: was put in your family for a reason, and you

1064
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 3: and your wife get to decide the culture of your family.

1065
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 3: That's the design of the universe, and you have the

1066
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 3: right to say this is who we are. And then

1067
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: as they graduate out of that, they get to make choices.

1068
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 3: So what I'm saying is there's there's a time period

1069
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 3: when you do push it pretty hard, and then there's

1070
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 3: a time period when you let go. So I think

1071
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 3: just as the kid gets older, you see this is

1072
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 3: not a major thing for them, you can you can

1073
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 3: back off a little bit.

1074
00:58:46,840 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 2: You know. This brings me to another one of my

1075
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 2: current questions of the topic that I'm thinking a lot

1076
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 2: about right now with my oldest son, who is just

1077
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 2: seems to be really really into all this stuff, like

1078
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: he's just eating it up. He's obsessed. He wants to

1079
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 2: hunt all the time, he wants to fish all the time,

1080
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 2: he wants to go with me on every hunt, he

1081
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 2: wants to see it all, do it all. He's really

1082
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: eaten up with it. So I am wondering about and

1083
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 2: wrestling with and thinking about the appropriate way to foster

1084
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 2: that excitement and that fund that he has right now

1085
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: his love for the thing. How do I balance that

1086
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 2: with also the necessary teaching of the seriousness of this

1087
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:55,919
Speaker 2: and the sacredness of life and taking a life and

1088
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 2: teaching respect for this kind of stuff. And you know,

1089
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 2: an example this would be, you know, a lot of

1090
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 2: young kids get a BB gun at some point. And

1091
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 2: I don't know if your childhood was like this, Clay,

1092
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 2: but I got a BB gun at one point, and

1093
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 2: I was just like a little kid that wanted to

1094
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 2: go on a tear and I wanted to hunt every

1095
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 2: little bird I saw and every little chipmunk. And that

1096
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 2: was probably part of what, you know, helped my progression

1097
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 2: as a hunter, and just having those experiences as a

1098
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 2: little kid and learning to do the thing myself. On

1099
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 2: the flip side, how do you introduce, you know, concepts

1100
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 2: of not taking more than you need or not killing

1101
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 2: something flippantly. And I'm wondering now, as my son has

1102
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 2: a BB gun and I'm trying to think, like, man,

1103
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 2: how do I make sure he's still enjoying himself? But

1104
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 2: also when do I introduce these concepts? How do I

1105
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 2: introduce these concepts without it being over his head or

1106
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 2: without it smashing the fun out of it? Because I'm like, no,

1107
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 2: you have to this this. Did you experience any of

1108
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: that yourself, Clay, what are your thoughts on that balancing act?

1109
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 4: You know, I think I think it is.

1110
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 3: It should just be kind of intuitive how you it was,

1111
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 3: it was you would scale down your philosophy to the

1112
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 3: knowledge level of the child, just like you would with anything.

1113
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 3: Like when you're driving in a car and your four

1114
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 3: year olds in the back seat and he says, Dad,

1115
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 3: why do you why are you driving like that? Why

1116
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 3: do you drive on this side of the road or

1117
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 3: why did you stop there? And you're like, well, Sun,

1118
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 3: when you drive and the red light's on, you have

1119
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 3: to stop. When it's green, you go. You know, you

1120
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 3: just dumb down driving, or you know there's a speed limit,

1121
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 3: there's this, and and I think it's the exact same way.

1122
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 3: Like you, as an adult have this pretty complex, pretty

1123
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 3: robust system of ethics and values that dictate that Yep,

1124
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 3: I will shoot a deer out of a tree stand

1125
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 3: in October, November, and December, but I won't shoot one

1126
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 3: with a rifle out of season in June. It's like,

1127
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 3: you know, uh, that's really clear, and and so you

1128
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 3: just translate it down so when your son brings home

1129
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 3: a bird that he's shot.

1130
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 4: You be like, wow, son, good shot. How did it happen?

1131
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 4: Where were we at?

1132
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 3: And you'd be like, man, this is a beautiful bird.

1133
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 3: Look at these wings. Can you believe this? This is incredible?

1134
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 3: And you know, when you're dealing with birds and baby guns,

1135
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 3: that's a little gray area there, but I think we

1136
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 3: all did that. And then you say, man, this this bird.

1137
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 3: You know, we gotta we gotta find a way to

1138
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 3: a bird's wrong. Example, let's let's use a game they

1139
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 3: kill a quail and you're like, and it's in season,

1140
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 3: you'd be like, oh, man, this is beautiful, incredible shot.

1141
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 4: Good job. Well we gotta we're gonna eat this, We're

1142
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 4: gonna use it.

1143
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 3: Just bringing it down and yeah, and when the sacredness

1144
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 3: of law that I think is instilled in a kid

1145
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 3: very early, and it's totally done by parent describing that,

1146
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 3: you know, at their level and and and understand that

1147
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 3: we don't take an animal's life flippantly, but also that

1148
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 3: it's very normal, you know, to eat stuff has to die.

1149
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, I think what you're saying resonates with me.

1150
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 2: It's it's all about reading your child and where they're

1151
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 2: at speaking at their their language, at their level, and

1152
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 2: balancing the the joy of the moment with the seriousness

1153
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 2: of it. But man, it's it's It does also sometimes

1154
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: seem or at least maybe this isn't for everyone. But

1155
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: I constantly find myself looking back and saying, did I

1156
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 2: do that right? Am I doing this the right way?

1157
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 2: Am I? Am I screwing up my kid? Or am

1158
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 2: I setting him up for success? Was he too young

1159
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: to see me? Got that deer? Is he old enough

1160
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 2: to understand this? And should I have him out with

1161
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 2: me when I'm doing this? Is this? Is this too soon?

1162
01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 2: Is this too much?

1163
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 6: You know?

1164
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm constantly wrestling with those kinds of things as I'm

1165
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: navigating these waters for the first time, doing the best

1166
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 2: I can. But there's no report card that you get

1167
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 2: at the end of the day that says, well, you

1168
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 2: did this right. You got an A here, you got

1169
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 2: to be here, and a C there. You know, I

1170
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 2: don't have that report card. So it's one of those

1171
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 2: things that you never quite know and you just hope

1172
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 2: that you're doing it the right way.

1173
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you just got to expose them to it.

1174
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 4: I've had somebody ask.

1175
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 3: Me that before, like would you let your kids watch

1176
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 3: you get here, and oh gosh, absolutely. From the very beginning,

1177
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 3: it's just like kind of a I like, just a

1178
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 3: common sense approach to parenting. It's that if this is

1179
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 3: something that's permissible for me to be doing, then it's

1180
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 3: okay for my kid to be introduced to it at

1181
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 3: some level, you know. So it's like, absolutely, let them

1182
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 3: watch you get a deer. Talk to them about the

1183
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 3: sanctity of life while you're doing it, and talk to

1184
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 3: them about food on the table, talk to them about

1185
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,439
Speaker 3: the life of this end, you know, at the level

1186
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 3: that they can understand.

1187
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 4: But the other extreme is that we just bombard them.

1188
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 3: With with all this philosophy that they're not ready for.

1189
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 4: I mean, sometimes you just gotta let them shoot the bird, you.

1190
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 6: Know, yeah, and uh and and and then at a

1191
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 6: later time it's like, hey, done, we're probably we probably

1192
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 6: ought to only shoot birds that you know, that we

1193
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 6: need or that we specific kind of targeting or or

1194
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 6: you know, not you know, introducing some level of responsibility

1195
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 6: into the thing, you know, in stewardship.

1196
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, uh, what about time away from your kids?

1197
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 2: You mentioned this a little bit how early on when

1198
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 2: they were young, you were taking them everywhere with you,

1199
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 2: but you know, except for certain hunts where they couldn't

1200
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 2: join you. And so this is the thing I've thought

1201
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 2: a lot about, which is, you know, when I when

1202
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 2: I hear about my dad's childhood or when I look

1203
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 2: at my childhood, I can hardly think of any hunts

1204
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 2: he was doing that I wasn't with him, you know,

1205
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 2: once I was you know, old enough to tag along,

1206
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 2: and he always talks about man he was with his

1207
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 2: dad all the time. I am at a situation in

1208
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 2: you too where I want to take my kids with

1209
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 2: me on on lots and lots and lots of these experiences,

1210
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 2: but I also, you know, I also want to still

1211
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 2: do my own thing. I also want to be able

1212
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 2: to go on these hunts or have to go on

1213
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 2: these different experiences where it just wouldn't be safe for

1214
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 2: possible to bring my boys along for some of these things.

1215
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 2: And so I find myself sitting out there on day

1216
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 2: seven of a you know, rut hunt where I haven't

1217
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 2: seen my kids in seven days, or where you're in

1218
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 2: Alaska on a moose hunt or something you haven't seen

1219
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 2: your kids for fourteen days or whatever. How have you

1220
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 2: thought about over your twenty one years as a father,

1221
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,439
Speaker 2: Clay thought about this balancing act of balancing our own

1222
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 2: personal obsession or passion for hunting and the time and

1223
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: we spend out there by ourselves, and knowing that every

1224
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 2: time we're out there by ourselves doing this thing, we

1225
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 2: are not spending time with our kids. How have you

1226
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 2: thought about that, How have you tried to approach that

1227
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 2: balance of balancing your own personal interest in time doing

1228
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 2: this with the time with your kids.

1229
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 3: Well, I think you've used the key word there, and

1230
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 3: that is balance. And because there's got to be a balance,

1231
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 3: Like there's absolutely times when you're gonna go hunting and

1232
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 3: your kids can't come, and that's okay. That is so

1233
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 3: introduces boundaries to your kids that are going to be

1234
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 3: in every other part of their life.

1235
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 4: So I think it's okay.

1236
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 3: I think it also goes back to family architecture, which

1237
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 3: family architecture would just be like, what is the design

1238
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 3: of your family that you are using to live life successfully?

1239
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 3: And if you're if you're a hunter and your serious

1240
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 3: deer hunter, and you you and your wife feel like

1241
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 3: this is an important part of your life and what

1242
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 3: you're supposed to be doing, then then absolutely I mean,

1243
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 3: there's gonna be You're gonna you're gonna go to Iowa

1244
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 3: and hunt for seven days once a year and it's

1245
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:18,799
Speaker 3: just okay.

1246
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 4: And you know, my dad did.

1247
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 3: That, and I remember some of my most exciting times

1248
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 3: of hunting was when he was gone, and I could

1249
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 3: not wait to hear how it went.

1250
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 4: That was a big part.

1251
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 3: And I don't know if my dad, I don't know

1252
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 3: how that happened, but I vividly remember once Dad went

1253
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 3: to South Texas deer hunting, and the whole week I

1254
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 3: was just I mean, I was talking to the kids

1255
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 3: at school, Man, my dad's down in Texas. He might

1256
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 3: kill the world record down there, I told. I remember

1257
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 3: thinking that, I mean, because it's like it's possible. Yeah,

1258
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 3: I mean he's in Texas and uh and so yeah,

1259
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 3: it's it's balanced and and you and.

1260
01:08:58,439 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 4: I both know it.

1261
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 3: There the seasons of life when things are permissible and

1262
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 3: when they're not. When my kids were young, I was

1263
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 3: not in the outdoor industry, and it would not have

1264
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 3: been permissible for me to devote, you know, just an

1265
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 3: incredible amount of time to being gone, like financially and

1266
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 3: Leaven Misty with the kids, like there was just a

1267
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,839
Speaker 3: time when that wasn't quite as.

1268
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 4: Normal as it would be today.

1269
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 3: And now their kids are older, and so I think

1270
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 3: the balance of life and with your spouse is trying

1271
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 3: to find what's the correct architecture for our family, you know,

1272
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 3: because you don't Yeah, I mean, hunting is not is

1273
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:37,759
Speaker 3: not really that important in the big scheme of things.

1274
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 3: It's it's you've got to you've got to find a

1275
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 3: way to balance life.

1276
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 4: And it's going to be different for everybody.

1277
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we go to you know, I'm

1278
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 3: really involved in our church and involved a lot of

1279
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 3: other men's lives, and it's like I hu more than

1280
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 3: any of them, and it's because architecture of our family.

1281
01:09:58,520 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 4: It's like it's my job.

1282
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 3: And even if it wasn't my job, it was, it's

1283
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 3: just it's just I built my life this way on purpose.

1284
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 3: And uh, there's other guys that maybe just hunt one

1285
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 3: or two weekends a year and that's kind of the

1286
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 3: architecture of their life. So it's like what's correct for you,

1287
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 3: what works? And a lot of that's determined by you

1288
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 3: and your spouse and how you decide you want to

1289
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 3: live your life, you know, and if and if it's right,

1290
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 3: it'll be great for your kids, you know it'll be

1291
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 3: it'll be good for your wife, it'll be good for

1292
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 3: your kids. And if it's detrimental to them, then you know,

1293
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,680
Speaker 3: that's where you start making adjustments. And it might just

1294
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 3: be a seasonal adjustment of you know what, I probably

1295
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 3: can't go on a ten day hunt. I could go

1296
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 3: on a six day hunt during this period of time.

1297
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:46,839
Speaker 4: I understand.

1298
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 3: I can't go on three big hunts every year, you

1299
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 3: know what, I'm just gonna go on too. And I

1300
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,639
Speaker 3: think that's the maturity that we got to have as parents,

1301
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 3: is knowing when those times are and and and when

1302
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 3: they're not, and just kind of being okay with it.

1303
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 3: And it's kind of a bummer and it's just life.

1304
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 3: But you know, you're really fired up when you're in

1305
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 3: your twenties, and then by the time you're in your thirties,

1306
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 3: you're you're you're competent, you have a little more money,

1307
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 3: you may have a little more time, and but oftentimes

1308
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 3: in our thirties is when our kids are kind of

1309
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:26,679
Speaker 3: in the heat of their development, and so it feels

1310
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:32,679
Speaker 3: like parenting overlaps in conflicting ways. Sometimes our natural desire

1311
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 3: to want to go and do stuff, and it just

1312
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 3: you just got to find the balance, you know.

1313
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so true. And I think a lot of

1314
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 2: it is just trial and error too, Like we to

1315
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 2: all of the stuff, right, we don't know, We're not

1316
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 2: necessarily going to know the right answer to every one

1317
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 2: of these situations. So you try something, you try the

1318
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 2: best you can figure and then you got to read

1319
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 2: it and assess, Okay, you know, how did this last

1320
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 2: year go? Did I have the balance right? Or was

1321
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 2: that trip with my boy? Did I push it too far?

1322
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 2: Did I not push it enough? And then try again

1323
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 2: a little bit different next time, and just keep on learning.

1324
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the same thing as becoming a better

1325
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 2: deer hunter, right, It's you try something, you assess how

1326
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 2: it went, and then you adjust. You try something, you assess,

1327
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 2: you adjust. I think as long as you keep trying

1328
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 2: to learn and keep trying to adjust, you're going to

1329
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 2: move in the right direction. But that's a process, and

1330
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 2: it takes it takes thoughtfulness and a sense of purpose,

1331
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 2: Like you're going into it knowing that this is a

1332
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 2: process and knowing that you're trying to learn versus just

1333
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:40,800
Speaker 2: blindly doing stuff and not thinking about it at all.

1334
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 2: There's something there, a little of a hard pivot, Clay.

1335
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 2: But one thing I was curious about before I let

1336
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 2: you go is this, If I were to look at

1337
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 2: Clay Newcombe and your connection to hunting, it seems like

1338
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 2: hunting for you has been something as connected you to

1339
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 2: the past uniquely. Like that's something that I feel like

1340
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 2: you talk about a lot. You have seemed to allow

1341
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: that to inform much of who you are as a

1342
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 2: hunter and otherwise. And I'm just curious if that's something

1343
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 2: that came to you by way of your family. Was

1344
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 2: that Was that something your dad was talking to you

1345
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 2: about when you were a kid. Was he talking about, well, well,

1346
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 2: we're doing this and this is the kind of thing

1347
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:25,640
Speaker 2: that our ancestors did, or that Daniel Boone did, or

1348
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 2: that so and so did and or does that? Was

1349
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 2: that something that's naturally developed for you? And uh, you

1350
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 2: sought it out yourself. That's that. That's part one of

1351
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 2: my questions. Part two is then how I'll get lost?

1352
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 4: Get lost? Because I think I've got a good answer.

1353
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 3: I think that I saw, No, my dad would not

1354
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 3: have been interested in history. I would not have been

1355
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 3: that interested in history.

1356
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 4: Growing up. But I think that I came out of.

1357
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 3: I kind of came into adulthood and recognized that I

1358
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:06,839
Speaker 3: came out of a very cultured place. And by cultured,

1359
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 3: I mean things were done on purpose, things were this

1360
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 3: is the way that people thought about this, this is

1361
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 3: the way people handled that, this is the this is

1362
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 3: what people valued like And I'm talking about in the

1363
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 3: hunting space.

1364
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,799
Speaker 4: And I became curious as.

1365
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 3: To why we were the way we were, And I

1366
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 3: think I just kind of bumped into looking back at

1367
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 3: some of these guys and being like, oh, Gary nukeom

1368
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 3: is that way because of this thing way back in

1369
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 3: American history or the.

1370
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 4: History of the South.

1371
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 3: And it was really interesting to me because I think

1372
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 3: we're influenced by a whole bunch of stuff that we're

1373
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 3: unconscious of. And so you know, just and you've heard

1374
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:55,760
Speaker 3: me say it, Mark, but a great example is that,

1375
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,799
Speaker 3: you know, Daniel Boone introduced to the world old really

1376
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 3: the idea of loving and cherishing wilderness and solitude. Before that,

1377
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 3: in the general, the general philosophy of the world was

1378
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 3: that the wilderness is where you went to die. The wilderness.

1379
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 3: You know, we were we had been trying to get

1380
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 3: away from wilderness for a gazillion years, and we came

1381
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 3: into civilization, and then this American boon went to Kentucky

1382
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:27,599
Speaker 3: and someone wrote a book, and how much of it

1383
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,840
Speaker 3: he did I was on purpose, I don't know. But

1384
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 3: he talked about solitude and loving wilderness, and all of

1385
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 3: a sudden, Americans were like, Yeah, we don't have big

1386
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 3: cities and beautiful thousand year old architecture. What we have

1387
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 3: is wilderness, and and that became a part of the

1388
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 3: American identity, was love of wilderness and solitude. And it's like,

1389
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 3: that's why we love bow hunting, that's why we have

1390
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 3: all this public land that you know, was like, hey,

1391
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 3: let's let's save some of this. That's why we have

1392
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 3: federal wilderness. Is that the ideology of somebody way back.

1393
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 3: Leopold and a bunch of these guys were like, man,

1394
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,600
Speaker 3: let's save some of this, just as it was for

1395
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 3: people to go and find solitude. And I think it's

1396
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 3: interesting to just see where that connects.

1397
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 4: To the past.

1398
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 5: Mm hm.

1399
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 2: So then part two. My question then is have you

1400
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 2: tried to help your children make those connections, make those

1401
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 2: connections during their childhood when you were raising bears, A Hunter,

1402
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 2: were you bringing these stories up and talking about these things?

1403
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 2: If so, you know, I'd love to hear more about that.

1404
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 3: Or if not, you know, the answer to this mark

1405
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 3: all day every day brother man. Living with me is

1406
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 3: like it's like Misty Misty and the kids. They would

1407
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 3: tell you it's like NonStop Beargrease podcast.

1408
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 4: Man.

1409
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 3: I talk at them all the time, and I'm joking

1410
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 3: and kind of making fun of myself because they make

1411
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 3: fun of me. They kind of roll their eyes sometimes,

1412
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 3: but I know they're just joking. I think so much

1413
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 3: of parenthood. I I talked at my kids for years,

1414
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 3: like if we're riding in the truck and they're not

1415
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 3: talking and they're eight years old and we traveled a lot,

1416
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 3: just all the time. Yeah, and I would just talk

1417
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 3: to him, I mean, just tell him stuff that was

1418
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 3: way over their head, but just just thinking this is

1419
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 3: gonna be it's gonna be more developmental for them to

1420
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 3: hear their dad just talking than than to just sit

1421
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 3: there or to listen to dumb country music, you know.

1422
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 4: And and that really was the philosophy that I had.

1423
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 4: I mean, I and I think Gary Nucom did that

1424
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 4: to me. Uh, he really did.

1425
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 3: Dad loved just he just would talk to me and

1426
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:49,760
Speaker 3: and and.

1427
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:51,879
Speaker 4: Not ask much from me at times.

1428
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 3: And I've done that with my kids, and so yeah,

1429
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 3: they they know about all this.

1430
01:17:58,240 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 4: I think.

1431
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:00,720
Speaker 3: I think we've got to interpret for our kids and

1432
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 3: show our kids what we're passionate about, and we don't

1433
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 3: have to amend that for them. Like I don't really

1434
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 3: care if my kids think Daniel Boone is cool. I do,

1435
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna talk to him about it, and I'm

1436
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 3: gonna tell them all this stuff.

1437
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 4: And and I think that they.

1438
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 3: May not care about Boone, but it teaches them how

1439
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 3: to to be passionate and informed, and they'll take that

1440
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 3: template for their life and go out and be passionate

1441
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 3: about something, you know.

1442
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, So so I don't.

1443
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 3: I don't tell them what I think they want or

1444
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 3: need to hear. I just I'm trying to just be

1445
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 3: who I am and and and and show that to him.

1446
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah. That resonates with That resonates with me

1447
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,600
Speaker 2: a lot. And I'm gonna use you next time. My

1448
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:50,480
Speaker 2: wife rolls her eyes at me, and you know, bemoans

1449
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 2: the fact that I'm a constant. She calls me a

1450
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 2: tour guide whenever we go anywhere with kids or even

1451
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 2: with other people. I'm like, well, this is this moan

1452
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 2: and this thing happened here, and two hundred years ago,

1453
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 2: this thing happened and did you know that, A, B,

1454
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:03,960
Speaker 2: and C and so, Yeah, they feel the same way

1455
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 2: about me as it sounds like your family does about you.

1456
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 2: So I'm going to tell my wife next time, like

1457
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 2: Clay said, this was a good thing to do and

1458
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 2: that she should appreciate it, and I will say the

1459
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:13,759
Speaker 2: same thing to my boys and we'll.

1460
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 4: See that absolutely their ears off.

1461
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,600
Speaker 2: Man, I'm going to keep on keeping on. So I

1462
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 2: got one last question for he then, Given your fascination,

1463
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:28,719
Speaker 2: I think would be fair to say of the history

1464
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 2: of hunting and the American wilderness and rural America and

1465
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 2: these different things that you've you've dove into over the

1466
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,360
Speaker 2: course of the years of the Bear Grease podcast and

1467
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 2: much of our other work, I'm curious if you can

1468
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 2: point to any one lesson that you have tried to

1469
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 2: share with your own children that came to you from

1470
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 2: someone in history, someone like Daniel Boone or the ancient

1471
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 2: American hunting cultures, or or Warner Glenn or any of

1472
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 2: these folks that you've studied over the years, can you

1473
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 2: point to one lesson from one of them that has

1474
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:07,719
Speaker 2: been important for you to pass on to your children.

1475
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 3: Hmm, Man, that is a really specific question. Mark if I.

1476
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 4: You know, a lot of my.

1477
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 3: Deep dive study of history, to be honest with you,

1478
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 3: has come in more recent years.

1479
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 4: I think that's a tough question.

1480
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 3: It's a fair question, because I think I would talk

1481
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,280
Speaker 3: to him about that kind of stuff all the time.

1482
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:41,760
Speaker 3: I don't know that I've got a real I can't say, like, well,

1483
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 3: Boone went into Kentucky and did this and did this,

1484
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 3: and so this is why we're doing this, Like it's

1485
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 3: not quite that direct, you know, sure.

1486
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:56,560
Speaker 4: I think I think maybe in general Boone.

1487
01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 3: Probably reading Robert Morgan's book Boone ten or twelve years ago,

1488
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 3: one of the most fascinating things to me was how

1489
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 3: so much of Boone, who's this American icon was influenced

1490
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 3: by Native Americans. Boone was Boone because of his interaction

1491
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 3: and adopting and being taught the ways that Native Americans

1492
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 3: interacted with the landscape here, and so you know so

1493
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 3: much of and so I think that brought back into

1494
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 3: me a deep appreciation for Native American cultures, which I've translated.

1495
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 4: That to my kids.

1496
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 3: I feel like just when we you know, with all

1497
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 3: the stone points we find and us just talking about it.

1498
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 3: So I don't because my original fascination wasn't necessarily with

1499
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,640
Speaker 3: Native Americans. It would have been more with you know,

1500
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 3: people like Boone or Crockett or whoever.

1501
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 2: So may not be exactly what you're looking for, Mark,

1502
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 2: but Clay, I'm never looking for anything other than the

1503
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 2: thing that's on the tip of your tongue. That's true

1504
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 2: to you, and you always you never disappoint You've You've

1505
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 2: shared a lot of really interesting ideas here, Clay that

1506
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 2: have helped me personally. I think there's some things here

1507
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:21,839
Speaker 2: that can help me in my thinking and my practice

1508
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 2: as a as a father. So I thank you for that, Clay.

1509
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 3: Right, Well, you're a great You're I said it the

1510
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 3: first time you I was on one of your podcasts, Mark,

1511
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 3: is that you're you're a fantastic interviewer. You asked a

1512
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:41,760
Speaker 3: lot of really insightful questions and that's meaningful.

1513
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 2: So well, thanks, I got one last question for you

1514
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:47,720
Speaker 2: then on that Oh you've you've said you had one

1515
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:50,000
Speaker 2: last question like four times. I know that's one of

1516
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 2: my interviewer tricks to keep dragging you along. Clay, you

1517
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 2: write that down and try it out next time.

1518
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I love it.

1519
01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:01,120
Speaker 2: Oh. My last question is simply, what is there anything

1520
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:04,439
Speaker 2: folks should be looking forward to? Can you preview anything

1521
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 2: that's coming down the line on the Bear Grease podcast

1522
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 2: or Brent's podcast, anything that folks need to know about

1523
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 2: the work that you're doing that they can look forward

1524
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 2: to and that they should come and check out in

1525
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,439
Speaker 2: the coming weeks or months. Yeah.

1526
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 4: I don't ever do this. I would never do this.

1527
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 3: On a Bear Grease feed, like tell people what I'm

1528
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 3: working on, but I'll tell you and your people, Mark,

1529
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 3: all right, when does this come out?

1530
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 2: This will come out on May? So this is next week,

1531
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 2: So May.

1532
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 4: Eighteenth, Okay, no problem, we are.

1533
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:47,759
Speaker 3: I'm working on a robust series on Davy Krockt, which

1534
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 3: is it kind of it's funny. It's funny that you

1535
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 3: brought up what you did. We don't always do these

1536
01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 3: kind of big time iconic folk Key Rose.

1537
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:06,200
Speaker 4: You know, one of the main our big historical series

1538
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:08,720
Speaker 4: that we've done. We did what on Daniel Boone, which was.

1539
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:12,559
Speaker 3: Maybe one of our most popular ones we ever did

1540
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 3: a lot A lot of them are are are lesser

1541
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 3: known people like Hult Collier, who was African American guy

1542
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:25,879
Speaker 3: that guided Teddy Roosevelt for the bear that would influence

1543
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 3: the Teddy Bear. That was one of the most fascinating

1544
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:32,759
Speaker 3: series we ever did. Hulk Collier was born a slave

1545
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 3: and ended up guiding the president on two bear hunts.

1546
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 4: Uh, Hult Collier.

1547
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:43,599
Speaker 3: We did a series on Cumpsa, which was the Shawnee

1548
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:50,280
Speaker 3: leader who was just lived an incredible life, incredible story.

1549
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 3: And then, uh, we're now doing this Crockett series. And

1550
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 3: we don't do always historic stuff. I mean, I know

1551
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 3: a lot of your people probably aren't. Maybe they're not

1552
01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:04,320
Speaker 3: listening to Bear Grease, but we do. We do stuff

1553
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 3: on living people. We do basically anything is on the

1554
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:15,280
Speaker 3: table that is of interest too well to me.

1555
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 2: I'm excited about that Crockett series. My son Everett loved

1556
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 2: your Boone series. And just this morning we had a request.

1557
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:27,080
Speaker 2: We just got to our place out in Idaho. So

1558
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 2: we're sitting at the breakfast table and we're looking out

1559
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 2: over the mountains and my son says, hey, Dad, can

1560
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 2: we listen to the Davy Crockett song? And so we

1561
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 2: put on the Ballad of Davy Crockett by Fest Parker,

1562
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 2: and then and then after that we listened to the

1563
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 2: Daniel Boone song by fest Parker, so it's fresh on

1564
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:43,720
Speaker 2: my mind too.

1565
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 4: Wow, that's awesome, man.

1566
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,879
Speaker 3: That's funny that we're going to talk a lot about

1567
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 3: that song and the Walt Disney stuff that that made

1568
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 3: that famous Crockett.

1569
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 4: Crockett's life is pretty fascinating.

1570
01:25:57,560 --> 01:25:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be looking forward to that one, and I'm

1571
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 2: sure my boys will too. So keep up the great work, Clay.

1572
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,880
Speaker 2: You are doing world class stuff. And I know I'm

1573
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 2: not the only one who appreciates it, but for everyone

1574
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 2: out there, I will just say one more time, thank you.

1575
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 4: All right, appreciate it, Mark, Thanks for the kind words, all.

1576
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 2: Right, and that's a wrap. Thank you for listening, Thanks

1577
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:21,640
Speaker 2: for being here, Thanks for continuing on this journey as

1578
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 2: we discuss our role as parents and how we can

1579
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 2: introduce our children to this incredible wild world that we

1580
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 2: get to enjoy. As I mentioned already, make sure you're

1581
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 2: checking out everything over in the Bear Grease World, the

1582
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:41,719
Speaker 2: Bear Grease road Show, the Bear Grease Podcast, this country life.

1583
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 2: All that is great. Clay has a lot to offer

1584
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 2: and we're thankful and fortunate that he's putting it out

1585
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,679
Speaker 2: of there into the world. So check it out, subscribe

1586
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 2: to his podcast, watch the YouTube videos, and until next time,

1587
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 2: my friends, thanks for being here, and stay wired to