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Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: John middle Coff, his podcast At the Volume is three
Speaker 2: and out former NFL scout. People love him. I was
Speaker 2: at a party last two nights ago and I said
Speaker 2: I worked at the Volume. Some guy kind of knew me,
Speaker 2: and he goes, hey, I like the middle cough guy,
Speaker 2: and I said, well, so do I. So we have
Speaker 2: something in common and I just met you for the
Speaker 2: first time, and so let's bring him on. We got
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, a lot of ground to cover
Speaker 2: on this. I want to start with this. It's an
Speaker 2: interesting one that not that it is that important, but
Speaker 2: because I have a place in Chicago, John, and I
Speaker 2: love Chicago. I could live in Chicago. Probably wouldn't want
Speaker 2: to live there December January February, but I love Chicago.
Speaker 2: My wife loves it, and so I and I know
Speaker 2: a lot of media people there. So when I the
Speaker 2: other day, I've always found this funny that, to some regard,
Speaker 2: you and I are information brokers. We get information and
Speaker 2: it changes all the time, and then we just I
Speaker 2: give it to the audience when I get it. So
Speaker 2: I had been told a while about eight nine, ten
Speaker 2: weeks ago, and and Caleb William's dad had done some talking.
Speaker 2: He's a big personality about some things he wanted, and
Speaker 2: Caleb started getting kind of an entitled rep and I
Speaker 2: think Caleb probably told us to hey, can you chill
Speaker 2: a little? You know, so I'd said something on the airs.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think Caleb's in love with Chicago.
Speaker 2: I don't think they really want.
Speaker 1: To go there.
Speaker 2: Caleb's people reached out to me and said, hey, we
Speaker 2: don't want to be painted like that. First of all,
Speaker 2: we know we're not going to do an lay like
Speaker 2: if we get picked. We're going to make it work.
Speaker 2: And I think that's the right attitude to have. That said,
Speaker 2: I was told USC has been called by five different
Speaker 2: NFL teams doing background checks. People are going to make
Speaker 2: offers to the Bears. So let's start from that premise.
Speaker 2: Would you be surprised if multiple teams didn't call the
Speaker 2: Bears and make offers big packages.
Speaker 1: They're going to get offers. I think under no circumstances.
Speaker 1: There's not an offer unless you view the gap between
Speaker 1: the next guy as borderline like minuscule. You could not
Speaker 1: take him, like you have no choice. Now, listen, scoutings
Speaker 1: in the eye of the beholder, right, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not objective that it's not black and white that there
Speaker 1: are people that view quarterbacks. I mean, they're going to
Speaker 1: be some teams that have a quarterback that goes third
Speaker 1: or fourth in this draft that might be their favorite quarterback. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's there's no guarantee.
Speaker 2: They just got I know a team that loves Boonecks,
Speaker 2: not Caleb level, but they think he's the second best
Speaker 2: quarterback in the draft.
Speaker 1: Well, Caleb, part of the reason why he's such a
Speaker 1: fascinating prospect is because of his physical skills. What do
Speaker 1: the Bears just do? They hired Shane Waldron, who is
Speaker 1: a Shannon hand McVeigh. It's a very quarterback friendly, so
Speaker 1: you could offense. So you could argue, well, if Washington
Speaker 1: or the Raiders someone's throwing the farm at you, if
Speaker 1: we don't have to move back that far, especially with
Speaker 1: the Washington What if Washington said, hey, we want to
Speaker 1: move up one spot. They play it pretty easily like
Speaker 1: we're open for business. We're open to listening to anything.
Speaker 1: We'll give you the following year's number one. You just
Speaker 1: move back one spot, you still get the quarterback you
Speaker 1: want or you're willing to take, and you get an
Speaker 1: extra first round pick in that offense. I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: what did you read the Jets story about the sala
Speaker 1: and everything going on. Yes, One thing I was told
Speaker 1: is when Robert Sawa interviewed for the job, is one
Speaker 1: of their big pitches he brought Lafleur's brother with him,
Speaker 1: who came from Kyle, is that in this offense, you
Speaker 1: know there are sixty sixty five plays a game. We
Speaker 1: want to run it for over half. That's the Shanahan way.
Speaker 1: And then let's say there are twenty five to thirty
Speaker 1: pass attempts. Ideally, half if not twenty of those thre
Speaker 1: aready pass attempts are gonna be schemed easy passes. Then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need the quarterback to make ten ish plays.
Speaker 1: Josh Allen has to make thirty of those. Mahomes has
Speaker 1: to make a lot in this offense. It's very quarterback friendly.
Speaker 1: So you could argue, go with the Drake May, go
Speaker 1: with whoever your favorite quarterback is, and add the picks. Now,
Speaker 1: I would not do that. I don't think. I think
Speaker 1: the risk of having a guy with this much time
Speaker 1: I watched him Drake May. Maybe I watched a bad stretch,
Speaker 1: but like three straight games in the middle of the year,
Speaker 1: I was like, God, I thought he was supposed to
Speaker 1: be like Justin Herbert. I'm not quite saying this, bo Nicks. Listen,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Jade Daniels. I have the Arizona taste,
Speaker 1: bad taste in my mouth from years ago. You got
Speaker 1: to adapt. I haven't watched him enough, but he's clearly
Speaker 1: a guy a lot of people like. But I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I think that I do people at Oklahoma and the
Speaker 1: Caleb Williams dad thing was a really big deal when
Speaker 1: he was eighteen. Obviously, then he transferred. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You don't get to call Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, Belichick
Speaker 1: and Pete Carroll and expect them to pick up your
Speaker 1: phone when you're fire. They're a mother, all right. This
Speaker 1: is the big leagues. That's why they pay you the money.
Speaker 1: But I think Caleb made the right decision, Like you
Speaker 1: want to stop that because there are already some question marks.
Speaker 1: This is not Andrew Luck when you're like, this is
Speaker 1: really you can't be that, Like he can't have the
Speaker 1: thing on his fingernails and you know his play. He's
Speaker 1: a really good prospect, but it was a little up
Speaker 1: and down at moments. He can have the hero ball syndrome.
Speaker 1: And there are legitimate questions, which for every prospect except
Speaker 1: like five in the history of sports, there are gonna
Speaker 1: be some question marks.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think it's and I went on Chicago
Speaker 2: radio for a couple of stations. Again, I I I
Speaker 2: want to be friendly. Chicago's a place I spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time, and I have I have real respect
Speaker 2: for Chicago media. It's it's New York, LA, Chicago, Dallas, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, Boston. There's some really good media. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's there's a there's some really big market media that
Speaker 2: I have a lot of respect for.
Speaker 1: It's an elite sports city.
Speaker 2: Oh it's it's I mean, the teams are a mess,
Speaker 2: but the I mean, come on, it's big, loud, passionate,
Speaker 2: it's it's great, and it's my favorite big city in
Speaker 2: the country, but it's I do think sometimes you can
Speaker 2: live in a tunnel and there is a sense. I
Speaker 2: think there's a greater perception of the Bears. You know,
Speaker 2: one of their bragging points is, you know, we lost
Speaker 2: a lot of close games. Well shit, mostly in this league,
Speaker 2: unless you're awful, everybody loses close games. But I tried
Speaker 2: to implore to them, guys, if you were Caleb Williams,
Speaker 2: think about this. Brett Faarv had eight years in Green Bay,
Speaker 2: some of those when it was a run first league,
Speaker 2: eight times in Green Bay, once in Minnesota. Thirty touchdown
Speaker 2: passes or more. Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay had eight
Speaker 2: of those. Jordan Love and his first year starting had
Speaker 2: one seventeen times with those three quarterbacks thirty touchdowns or more.
Speaker 2: The Bears have never had a quarterback that's done that. Ever,
Speaker 2: that's great, and they've had thirteen coordinators offensively in twenty
Speaker 2: six years. It is an es show offensively, So don't
Speaker 2: be shocked if the dad eight nine weeks ago, I
Speaker 2: had heard from the camp like they're not in love
Speaker 2: with this place. And again Dad's saying one thing, Son
Speaker 2: saying another. But I just think people will use this example, Well,
Speaker 2: the Bengals were bad and then Joe Burrow, And to that,
Speaker 2: I say, Kenny Anderson got to a Super Bowl, Boomrosias
Speaker 2: and got to a super Bowl. Joe Burrow got to
Speaker 2: a Super Bowl. Carson Palmer was fantastic, three time Pro bowler,
Speaker 2: and Andy Dalton, Marvin.
Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis had some really good teams. I think I
Speaker 1: think went to five playoffs.
Speaker 2: So it's like five times Cincinnati's gotten the quarterback, right,
Speaker 2: Chicago never has. So for anybody that thinks everybody in
Speaker 2: Caleb's camp is we can't wait. There are reservations they
Speaker 2: don't want. They're not if you get If they get picked,
Speaker 2: they're going. But this place in the history of the league,
Speaker 2: the worst offensive franchise offensive is the Bears. They've never
Speaker 2: had a four thousand yard quarterback.
Speaker 1: I don't think what people understand is I knew Matt
Speaker 1: Naggie really really well, and I had some other buddies
Speaker 1: that work in the organization. It's a mom and pop operation,
Speaker 1: just like yeah, So if you think about the first
Speaker 1: two picks, you got the Bears and then you got Washington, Well,
Speaker 1: what's Washington, this new rich guy who is a big
Speaker 1: progressive thinker, who's willing to be on the forefront of everything.
Speaker 1: No expense is too small for him to He'll be aggressive.
Speaker 1: He'll do whatever if Dan Quinn, Yeah, they'll pivot exactly.
Speaker 1: They Hey, Cliff, will double your salary. What do you do,
Speaker 1: Doc Rivers? Nick Nurse? If now Em beats her, he'll
Speaker 1: be aggressive to do something else. The Bears are the
Speaker 1: complete opposite. Like you've always very they were romanticized about
Speaker 1: the eighty five Bears. It's twenty twenty four, guys. There's
Speaker 1: a large gap between those two teams. So I don't
Speaker 1: think people quite just because it's a big brand and
Speaker 1: a big city. They do not operate like Kronki or
Speaker 1: Jerry or Jeffrey Lourie or No. Forty. They don't have
Speaker 1: the money that they are are. They're a team that
Speaker 1: bought the franchise a long long time ago. So listen,
Speaker 1: and I heard you say this, and it's so correct.
Speaker 1: If they were to start with all this momentum this
Speaker 1: offseason and these picks, what if they start zero to
Speaker 1: three or two and five like Ibra Fluss got first
Speaker 1: coach fired, written all over them. Well, yeah, people said
Speaker 1: it was crazy Colin to bring him back with all
Speaker 1: the options on the open, this was the time to pivot,
Speaker 1: and they just it's classic organization. They're wired like the
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties. It's it's insane. I thought it was.
Speaker 2: And I people say, well, nothing against the guy.
Speaker 1: He had a good he had a good second half defensively,
Speaker 1: but come.
Speaker 2: On, but well and again people say, well, why do
Speaker 2: you like the Washington space for you know, blank quarterback?
Speaker 2: And my takeaway as because dan Quinnon is staff. It's
Speaker 2: they're going to pay elite money to get an elite
Speaker 2: staff and he can go one and five his second year.
Speaker 2: He's not going to get fired, so probably got a
Speaker 2: six year contract. Yeah, So I think sometimes and I
Speaker 2: don't blame chicag. You're taking local calls. Once you move
Speaker 2: in a market and live in a market, you do
Speaker 2: kind of root for your local team because it makes
Speaker 2: sure your sports cast you're show more interesting. But I
Speaker 2: do think the idea that and Caleb's going to go
Speaker 2: to the Bears if they pick him, But not everybody.
Speaker 2: I mean, they've done a really good Caleb's done a
Speaker 2: good job. To say, guys, there's a way to work here.
Speaker 2: It's like Houston defensive coach. But again, Demiko came in
Speaker 2: with a new staff, a five year contract or four
Speaker 2: year contract. The bottom line is five games in the
Speaker 2: Eberflus and Caleb Williams, they could be moving on to
Speaker 2: another staff or at least want to.
Speaker 1: Anyway, we wouldn't have this opinion if they would have
Speaker 1: got rid of eua Fluse and hired for Abel with
Speaker 1: Arthur Smith, would be like, God's a that's a viable franchise.
Speaker 2: Absolutely different, totally different ballgame I have. I have nothing
Speaker 2: against Iberflus, but I have two executives in the league
Speaker 2: who know him, were of interviewed with him, and they're like, listen,
Speaker 2: he doesn't capture the room. There's an there's an argument
Speaker 2: to be made he's a great coordinator, verdicts out if
Speaker 2: he's a great coach. But that's okay. It's just the
Speaker 2: point being is is I've got some good sourcing on
Speaker 2: Caleb and he's a good kid. He's emotional, he's all
Speaker 2: about winning, and he's going to go to Chicago. But
Speaker 2: I mean, you got to take a deep breath if
Speaker 2: you are a Bears fan or live in Chicago. This
Speaker 2: is the worst franchise in the league historically on offense.
Speaker 2: They do not have a four thousand yard quarterback ever,
Speaker 2: which is hard to do. It's like the league wants it.
Speaker 2: The league basically is the opposite college football. They want parody.
Speaker 2: They don't want Mahomes dominating the league. It's just Mahomes
Speaker 2: is great. So let's pivot to this Jim Harbaugh, who
Speaker 2: could have never gotten a Chicago job because they wouldn't
Speaker 2: pay for him and he doesn't get along with a
Speaker 2: president who was the former Big Ten president. Could you
Speaker 2: make I had Harbaugh on Friday, and I really like
Speaker 2: him and I always have and I think maybe John
Speaker 2: I just like people. I support people who are smart
Speaker 2: and successful that the audience rallies against than Harbaugh because
Speaker 2: he's different and a disruptor. You know, he's uber in
Speaker 2: the NFL and college football can be a taxi. He
Speaker 2: is going to shake shit up and I love him
Speaker 2: for it. But could I make the argument he was
Speaker 2: always a better NFL coach and he would have been.
Speaker 2: He's built for the NFL because he doesn't play kate
Speaker 2: and college football increasingly is about kissing butt and the
Speaker 2: NFL is about winning, and he's a winner.
Speaker 1: When I watched him on your show and kind of
Speaker 1: make the media rounds, you know, when I was around
Speaker 1: Harbaugh with the forty nine ers and go into practices,
Speaker 1: he had this like huge chip on his shoulder, which
Speaker 1: was kind of weird, right, a lot of coaches that
Speaker 1: all they'd ever done was coach trying to prove themselves.
Speaker 1: He was already really famous, his brother was an NFL
Speaker 1: head coach, yet he had this chip on his shoulder
Speaker 1: like everyone had overlooked him his whole life and everyone
Speaker 1: was out to get him. And you watch him now,
Speaker 1: I feel like I see a different guy, definitely more mature,
Speaker 1: and the way he used to have this huge pushback
Speaker 1: against I think the media in a weird way, even
Speaker 1: though he could when he wanted to put on the charm,
Speaker 1: he could. If you watched him over the last week,
Speaker 1: he put on the charm kind of embraced it, like
Speaker 1: it's not worth it in me fighting this. I don't
Speaker 1: have the energy. At sixty years old, he looks definitely healthier.
Speaker 1: He's thinner than he was back back. You know, ten
Speaker 1: years ago, I watched a guy that's just very at
Speaker 1: peace with where he's at and kind of knows what
Speaker 1: he's doing and isn't insecure is probably the wrong way
Speaker 1: to put it, but just it's pretty dialed in, and
Speaker 1: I listen, he can be over the top with the
Speaker 1: way he talks about players and stuff and Herbert. But
Speaker 1: I don't see how they don't win and they don't
Speaker 1: win immediately.
Speaker 2: Have you seen their schedule, Jesus no, I don't know.
Speaker 2: The road schedule is Atlanta, Carol Liona Oh.
Speaker 1: He plays a South oh As the wins.
Speaker 2: So the road schedule in all only one game Kansas City.
Speaker 2: Will they have the second best quarterback. They'll the best
Speaker 2: quarterback in every game. The home schedule now Burrow, but
Speaker 2: it's at home, Lamar Jackson at home, so they get
Speaker 2: some tougher quarterbacks at home. John. They lost twelve games,
Speaker 2: seven by a field goal or fewer, most in the
Speaker 2: league by far. You can't tell me Staley to Harbaugh
Speaker 2: is not a four five point swing.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's crazy to think they're an eleven
Speaker 2: win team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the hardball from the forty
Speaker 1: nine ers, where you know, for the first time in
Speaker 1: his life, I mean, he was fired, he was basically
Speaker 1: told you're not good enough because you're crazy, even though
Speaker 1: that eight's pretty well on his side. And then he
Speaker 1: went to Michigan, and remember he changed his offense midway
Speaker 1: through to kind of this modern spread, and he clearly
Speaker 1: hated it. And I think once he got back to
Speaker 1: his roots, he knows his way works, so he is
Speaker 1: very secure of like my old school way of football,
Speaker 1: which ironically, Kyle Shanahan's an old school guy. Runs the ball,
Speaker 1: play defense, still works when it matters the most. He's
Speaker 1: proven these last three years in Michigan. I think you're
Speaker 1: getting a guy that's pretty dialed obviously. I mean, you
Speaker 1: just saw him win the national championship. But to me,
Speaker 1: you get a guy who's less abrasive. I mean, there
Speaker 1: are some stories with the forty nine ers, like damn,
Speaker 1: I could understand being the owner if people got in
Speaker 1: the checks. This is kind of a third and I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're quite getting that guy anymore. And
Speaker 1: this is where I would imagine the Spaniels family feels
Speaker 1: a lot better about this. He's not gonna be fighting
Speaker 1: them all the time.
Speaker 2: Well, think about this, Stanford complete turnaround job, Niners, complete
Speaker 2: turnaround job, Michigan. Complete turnaround job is part of what
Speaker 2: you see. He's like, shit, if we don't want eleven games,
Speaker 2: I can't coach receiver, left tackle, quarterback, back, two edge rushers,
Speaker 2: high pick, high pick. Also last year's draft second and
Speaker 2: third picks, a couple of guys front seven defensively two
Speaker 2: lead for USC and the linebacker from the PAC twelve
Speaker 2: Washington State. I think Jim looks at this and thinks,
Speaker 2: how did they not win nine to ten games? For sure,
Speaker 2: I think this is the first job he's had where
Speaker 2: he walks it. Didn't think if I hit on three
Speaker 2: draft picks and we're reasonably healthy, we can win our division.
Speaker 2: It's not a turneriz, it's not a gut job.
Speaker 1: Well, here's the other thing. In the NFL, Unlike college now,
Speaker 1: you have now GM essentially guys in college that help
Speaker 1: you run your recruiting. You need him with the transfer portal,
Speaker 1: but ultimately the head coach is essentially the GM in college.
Speaker 1: You need a GM in the pros, a guy that
Speaker 1: can you know from practice squad to college to free agency.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on, and during the season, your
Speaker 1: only tunnel vision is coaching the team in the next
Speaker 1: week's game, and I think harball what he went through
Speaker 1: with Trent Balkey, he gets a harball guy, this dude
Speaker 1: from Baltimore, which clearly he's very very comfortable with. And
Speaker 1: John Spanos he was pretty openly talking about in the
Speaker 1: press conference. He likes him a lot, and John plays
Speaker 1: a role in scouting. So he's clearly very comfortable with
Speaker 1: their structure, which is key because the best coaches right now,
Speaker 1: ultimately Andy and Kyle and McVeigh. They're the highest guy
Speaker 1: in the total. They make the most money, but they
Speaker 1: trust their GM because they need us and you cannot
Speaker 1: his success, he's gonna be He's gonna need to lean
Speaker 1: on this guy. So he needed a guy they could trust.
Speaker 1: They hired a guy like think of all the success
Speaker 1: he's had now taking guys from his brother. It's the
Speaker 1: one guy in the NFL he can really lean on.
Speaker 1: So when he says, hey, this guy's worth it, he's
Speaker 1: taking defensive coordinators now, he takes an assistance, you know,
Speaker 1: scouting director to make him his GM. I just think
Speaker 1: he's in a much better suited from a personal dynamic standpoint.
Speaker 1: I mean that forty nine er team he took over
Speaker 1: turned out to be pretty loaded with a lot of talent.
Speaker 1: That team's more talent in this one, but the quarterback
Speaker 1: situation is it's pretty hard to beat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's talk about a little bit about
Speaker 2: the super Bowl. But I really want to dial in
Speaker 2: on brock Purdy. So I saw a stat that was interesting.
Speaker 2: I don't think you deny this. Five of the eight
Speaker 2: playoff quarters for brock Purty have not been good, and
Speaker 2: they've been a favorite, and they've been at home. So
Speaker 2: brock Purty's rate of negatively graded dropbacks in the playoffs
Speaker 2: has been twenty three percent. So that's bad. That would
Speaker 2: have been the worst in the NFL of any quarterback
Speaker 2: with two hundred plus dropbacks. He's been bad in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: He's had a couple of great late drives Mahomes who
Speaker 2: had a much much lower, very good negative drawback rate, right,
Speaker 2: very few. It's been even better in the playoffs. It's
Speaker 2: like six percent to Perty's twenty three percent. And he's
Speaker 2: gone on the road twice against you know, Green Bay's
Speaker 2: defense and Detroit's defense. I mean one's crap, the other
Speaker 2: ones average Buffalo's defense and the Baltimore defenses especially Baltimore's
Speaker 2: much better than Green Bay Detroit. So mahomes against much
Speaker 2: better defenses on the road, has almost no negative dropbacks
Speaker 2: almost none. Purty at home against bad defenses has an
Speaker 2: egregiously bad negative drop back.
Speaker 1: Great.
Speaker 2: So my take is I think this Kansas City's defense
Speaker 2: is elite. Most people just don't know anybody outside of
Speaker 2: maybe Snead and Chris Jones, but they can fricking move
Speaker 2: if Purty struggles, and I like the under is my
Speaker 2: favorite bet in this game. I think it's low scoring
Speaker 2: if Pretty struggles, I mean, really coughs it up. Could
Speaker 2: you argue Kyle Goes he got outplayed for three quarters
Speaker 2: by Love, outplayed by two and a half quarters by
Speaker 2: lousy in the Super Bowl, that Sam Donald would go
Speaker 2: into camp battling Purty and whoever played better would win
Speaker 2: that job.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that is a big swing guy for him,
Speaker 1: because I was text with some people. Sam just signed
Speaker 1: a one year contract a lot and the forty nine
Speaker 1: ers love him, But so does Adam Peters, who's now
Speaker 1: in Washington. And you know, maybe depending on who you draft,
Speaker 1: you bring him, you pay him a little bit more money.
Speaker 1: You kind of make him the bridge quarterback. You let
Speaker 1: that guy kind of ease into his NFL career. So
Speaker 1: that is a team to watch. When it comes to
Speaker 1: Sam Donald, I do think the forty nine ers are very,
Speaker 1: very loyal to this guy. They really like him. Like
Speaker 1: one thing happened when Trey Lance was pretty bad for
Speaker 1: them in his starts, the team never really gravitated toward him.
Speaker 1: And when I say the team, I mean they're Star
Speaker 1: Corps players that group like he's beloved in the locker
Speaker 1: room and brought party and that buys you a lot
Speaker 1: of juice with this team. Trent Williams, Fred Warner, Nick Bosa,
Speaker 1: George Kittle, Deebo, Samuel Brandon, Ayuk. I mean, these guys
Speaker 1: are not going anywhere, and they're some of the best
Speaker 1: players in the league. The other thing is Kyle is
Speaker 1: even in the struggles when you can run his offense.
Speaker 1: That was the problem with Trey. He like had to
Speaker 1: change his offense, and he's like, my whole thing is
Speaker 1: my offense. So that's why they loved Party. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure you saw the story Jed Yorke told him that.
Speaker 1: Kyle in twenty twenty two in training camp said eight,
Speaker 1: I think the best this is like two weeks in
Speaker 1: the best quarterback on the roster. This guy we just
Speaker 1: drafted the seventh round. They're like what and he was.
Speaker 1: He wasn't making that up now, I was going to
Speaker 1: those practices. It's hard to tell because he's running with
Speaker 1: the threes. But they kept him on the roster for
Speaker 1: a reason, like the coach really liked him. The rain
Speaker 1: situation in Green Bay, he was really bad. I do
Speaker 1: think the second half against Detroit, like I thought, their
Speaker 1: defense really let him down. The forty nine Ers are
Speaker 1: an offensive team. When you go back to the last
Speaker 1: Super Bowl these two teams played, the Niners were a
Speaker 1: defensive team and the Chiefs were an unreal offensive team.
Speaker 1: Well look at this this year. The Niners are the
Speaker 1: third scoring offense. They're very dependent on Brock playing well
Speaker 1: in scoring a lot of points because their defense the
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks it's truly been leaking oil for
Speaker 1: a while. And the Chiefs are the number two overall
Speaker 1: scoring defense. So this is actually a clash between the
Speaker 1: forty nine Ers offense and the Chiefs defense. But their
Speaker 1: offense goes as Brock play, so when he's a little off,
Speaker 1: their defense is no longer dominant. So yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: for them to win the Super Bowl. To me, he's
Speaker 1: got to be way better than he was because I
Speaker 1: don't have as much face on the faith on the defense.
Speaker 1: John Lynch was just their defensive coordinator was saying they
Speaker 1: were embarrassed by the effort in the NFC Championship game.
Speaker 1: So the defense is going through some stuff. Now when
Speaker 1: Deebo's healthy, they have so many options and you can
Speaker 1: run the ball with Christian McCaffrey. They throw a lot
Speaker 1: of quick screens. They just need Brocking out to turn
Speaker 1: it over. And that's the one thing. He's got a
Speaker 1: lot of turnover worthy place. And when he was really
Speaker 1: humming throughout the season, when they were beating the shit
Speaker 1: out of Dallas and Philly, he was not doing that.
Speaker 1: So it just depends what guy you get. And this
Speaker 1: gets back to, well you and I I'm sure when
Speaker 1: the draft gets closed and when the draft happens, the
Speaker 1: character of these guys, the mindset of these guys. Brock's
Speaker 1: a pretty serious dude. So like he's gone through like
Speaker 1: it's been a rough little stretch for him, but I
Speaker 1: think they like where he's at mentally. And I have
Speaker 1: actually more faith in him, the guy and the wiring
Speaker 1: than I do sometimes the physical attributes. Obviously he's a
Speaker 1: pretty good runner, but this arm, you know, can be
Speaker 1: a little hit or missed sometimes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I always said Dak Prescott's intangibles are an A. His
Speaker 2: tangibles are like A C plus B minus, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he moves over. I mean he really throws an average ball,
Speaker 2: you know. I think the other thing with brock Purty,
Speaker 2: if I was a Niner fan, I'd be a little concerned.
Speaker 2: Is Andy Reid and Spags two weeks is that pretty
Speaker 2: rain struggled road not as good big games. He's been
Speaker 2: a tad tight people. Also, John, they have more film.
Speaker 2: You got a lot on Brock now, whereas with Garoppolo,
Speaker 2: we knew his limitations. That's why I think brought Pretty
Speaker 2: moving is essential because it doesn't matter how much film
Speaker 2: you have. If you can move, you can move. You
Speaker 2: don't know when it's coming. But I think I do
Speaker 2: think Spags and I think the Chiefs have the best
Speaker 2: corners in the league. I think if they can generate
Speaker 2: a pass rush, you know, if I was facing Pretty,
Speaker 2: my takeaway would be crowd debo, take out the bubble screens.
Speaker 2: Be prepared for him. Don't let him run brock on
Speaker 2: play actions to stop the run. Take your chances with
Speaker 2: Ayuk over the top. If he beats you, he beats you.
Speaker 2: But take away take those bubble screens away from Deebo
Speaker 2: where he's a train downhill. I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think San Francisco is going to generate a
Speaker 2: ton of offense. You've acknowledged that San Francisco's pass rush
Speaker 2: as really it's kind of hit and miss outside of BOSA.
Speaker 1: I think ideally, Kyle Shanahan at his core, is wired
Speaker 1: like a guy from the eighties or the nineties, like
Speaker 1: his dad. He wants to run the ball, and they
Speaker 1: run the ball to do two things. Established just a
Speaker 1: physical you know, set the tone physically and prove that
Speaker 1: we're tougher than you. And then their entire passing game
Speaker 1: is off that all the play action stuff that leads
Speaker 1: to a lot of easy completions. It's why when they're
Speaker 1: successful running the ball with McCaffrey, their offense can look
Speaker 1: pretty easy because guys get wide open because you're biting
Speaker 1: on the run. And then guys they have so much
Speaker 1: talent with their offensive weapons. When you can slow down
Speaker 1: the run. It throws them off a little bit. So
Speaker 1: to me, it kind of starts with Christian McCaffrey. It's
Speaker 1: why a lot of people are saying he was the
Speaker 1: MVP threat the year because he is, I mean, he's
Speaker 1: one of the best players in the league. They said
Speaker 1: something on the AFC Championship game it was either nance
Speaker 1: or that the Chiefs led the league this year and
Speaker 1: batted passes at the line of scrimmage like their defensive line. Well,
Speaker 1: what happened a couple times against the Lions. Hutchinson's like
Speaker 1: six foot seven batted a couple balls down. Do they
Speaker 1: bat four balls down? Well, if you only get twenty
Speaker 1: eight to thirty pass attempts or you know, Kyle ideally
Speaker 1: would be twenty five, that's four wasted passes, right, Or
Speaker 1: does it happen once? Because sometimes Kyle's schemed pass is
Speaker 1: why it's gonna work, either as a big first down
Speaker 1: or an explosive play. If you tip that ball, and
Speaker 1: you can with Brock because he's a shorter player, it
Speaker 1: can throw you off. That's some little thing to keep
Speaker 1: an eye on because they battle a lot of balls
Speaker 1: and Brock hast some balls to get bad, and so
Speaker 1: do they try. I don't ever understand why Kyle doesn't
Speaker 1: move it. Now. His offense is not a drop back
Speaker 1: passing game where they do right sprint options. But I
Speaker 1: would try to get him on the move a little
Speaker 1: bit more, but they just that's not really part of
Speaker 1: the Shanahan, you know operation.
Speaker 2: So I've made the comment before John, and I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure sure I'm right on this that winning is second
Speaker 2: in the NFL for owners to winning on their terms.
Speaker 2: The spanos is, to their credit, finally said we're going
Speaker 2: to give up some power in the building because we
Speaker 2: got the right quarterback. We don't have a Super Bowl win.
Speaker 2: We're going to go with hardball. By and large, Vrabel Belichick,
Speaker 2: who would have wanted similar personnel say, didn't get offered
Speaker 2: a job. They're obviously much more qualified than many of
Speaker 2: the young defensive coordinators. Five of the eight coaches were
Speaker 2: on the defensive side. So in twenty twenty one, of
Speaker 2: the thirteen playoff wins, twelve were from offensive coaches. In
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, of the thirteen playoff wins twelve, again,
Speaker 2: we're from offensive coaches. This year, Andy Kyle, both offensive
Speaker 2: guys nine of thirteen will be offensive coaches. How surprised
Speaker 2: were you or were you that five of the eight
Speaker 2: head coaching hires. Again, these guys have no power, no leverage,
Speaker 2: not big salaries outside of maybe dan quinn House maybe
Speaker 2: I don't know what his is. Were you surprised they
Speaker 2: went back to young, unproven, defensive side of the ball guys.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think there was a great crop of
Speaker 1: Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh, Matt Lafleur types. Right, there was one,
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't leave. And there have been some rumors
Speaker 1: Ben Johnson didn't interview. Well, he wanted a lot of money.
Speaker 1: I heard that he is a fantastic offensive coach, right,
Speaker 1: you watch his offense, so you would you might look
Speaker 1: past that. One thing's pretty clear, and this goes back
Speaker 1: to the Harball thing. The amount of money you're paying
Speaker 1: these guys. What's the first time no name head coach
Speaker 1: now making eight million? You know, if you have a
Speaker 1: little bit of a resume, dan Quinn, you're probably starting
Speaker 1: at twelve, thirteen, And then obviously the Harball types are
Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty, so you're paying a lot of money.
Speaker 1: And then a guy like Vrabel won't listen to anybody.
Speaker 1: And I'm a Mike Vrabel guy, but I could understand
Speaker 1: if you put me on the if I was running
Speaker 1: the team, like wait, you're not even gonna You're just
Speaker 1: gonna be a dick to me, passed me in the hallway,
Speaker 1: not even acknowledge me. And that's more of a Belichick thing,
Speaker 1: not listening to my GM. Ultimately, this is my team
Speaker 1: and you're not getting along with it. Andy Reid ask
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Leurie what he thinks of him? Loves him? Got
Speaker 1: along with people? Was he Pete Carroll easy to deal?
Speaker 1: You know, he's just he's nice. There is an element.
Speaker 1: Even Kyle Shanahan, who can be contankerous, kind of edgy like,
Speaker 1: does get along with Sean McVeigh. And I think part
Speaker 1: of that. You know, once you get this kind of
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of carries with you that you
Speaker 1: don't get along with people at the price points, it's
Speaker 1: not great. The other thing with Bill at seventy two
Speaker 1: years old, Bill's not going to come in and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: just let me coach the team, hire whoever you want
Speaker 1: to be the GM. He picks the players won that GM.
Speaker 1: What's he gonna do tell Bill who to take. So
Speaker 1: it was a tough situation. But how could you give
Speaker 1: Bill the keys to the Ferrari Even though I think
Speaker 1: Atlanta shoot a hire lessen you get a chance to
Speaker 1: get Bill Belichick gets some buzz. But I do understand
Speaker 1: the reservations from the other side of Like, Bill, we've
Speaker 1: seen your drafts. You're known for not listening to anybody,
Speaker 1: Like the Patriots have a draft board with really talented scouts,
Speaker 1: and then Bill just goes rogue. So it's like, how
Speaker 1: can we trust you to do that? In part of
Speaker 1: Bill's deals, like you're hiring me, you gotta let me
Speaker 1: do everything, He's not saying, well, I'll just coach the team.
Speaker 1: You guys picked the players, So it's I guess it's
Speaker 1: not that shocking with those two guys. I think the
Speaker 1: defensive coaches gets back to there just wasn't a good
Speaker 1: crop of offensive guys. I mean, and once Ben Johnson
Speaker 1: didn't want in, Like who are the other offensive coordinators?
Speaker 1: Shanahan has a bunch of young guys that he just
Speaker 1: promoted because he's lost guys the last couple of years.
Speaker 1: Bobby Slowick's a guy with Demiko very young. I mean,
Speaker 1: who's working at PFF like five years ago, so we
Speaker 1: might be two years away from kind of that crew,
Speaker 1: the Bobby Slowick's kubiak Son, who's just getting they'll start
Speaker 1: getting some jobs. But I think he kind of looked around.
Speaker 1: I think the Washington's a good example. I thought it
Speaker 1: would be insane for Seattle to hire like john You've
Speaker 1: been a GM now for fourteen years, take a big swing.
Speaker 1: And if Ben Johnson's not interested, like I understood going
Speaker 1: with Mike McDonald, but if you're Washington, you go. So
Speaker 1: we have a culture issue, like this franchise has been
Speaker 1: just negative, we had issues. He is a positive culture guy.
Speaker 1: So maybe he's not some superstar coach, but can't he
Speaker 1: just get the train on the tracks? Can he help
Speaker 1: a young quarterback and just in three or four years
Speaker 1: we go, you know what, we have a real organization.
Speaker 1: And then maybe you have to make a decision we
Speaker 1: need to upgrade the coach or whatever. But you get
Speaker 1: a guy with real experience. Josh Harris. His last two
Speaker 1: coaches in the NBA have been guys with a resume
Speaker 1: as a head coach. Clearly they valued that. I do
Speaker 1: think that Ben Johnson though, was a pretty big kind
Speaker 1: of wild card swing of whether it was the price,
Speaker 1: whether it was the interview. I was told a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago he just wasn't that comfortable. He's only
Speaker 1: thirty seven years old. It's not like he's fifty. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm not quite ready. I'm making four
Speaker 1: million dollars. It's not going anywhere. The Lions are going
Speaker 1: to be really good. But the moment he went back,
Speaker 1: who else were you going to hire?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point.
Speaker 1: But it's why these it's why these offensive coordinators. You know,
Speaker 1: Cliff looks like he's going to Washington. Waldron will see
Speaker 1: what Seattle ends up doing. I saw that they were
Speaker 1: interested in Ben Grubb, you know, went to Abama with Duboor.
Speaker 1: We might see in a year or two the crop
Speaker 1: of offensive coordinators because those offenses hit on some of
Speaker 1: those defensive led teams. Those guys jolt up, right. It
Speaker 1: happened to Shanahan with Dan Quinn. You get extra credit
Speaker 1: because you know that that guy runs. You know, he
Speaker 1: has so much juice in the building.
Speaker 2: All right. John Middlecoff joining us for those listening to
Speaker 2: the podcast, former NFL scout, I do want to talk
Speaker 2: about this. I think it's interesting. Harbaugh College Football rearview mirror.
Speaker 2: Seya Saban had many good years, left Alabama still a
Speaker 2: top three program college football. Sea Boston College head coach
Speaker 2: Seya chip Kelly rumored to be taking a coordinator job.
Speaker 2: I do think that college football is at a point
Speaker 2: where the transfer portal needs way. I mean, listen, the
Speaker 2: media is always going to defend the player. The media
Speaker 2: is ohways predictable young. The media has gotten much younger
Speaker 2: in my career. Why because they're cheaper As the media
Speaker 2: is getting more corporatized. You know, that's why I love
Speaker 2: the volume. You know, we pay what people we think
Speaker 2: are worth. We want, We'll take older people that are
Speaker 2: a bit more expensive. You know, we're I've worked for
Speaker 2: big media companies. They want cheap and cheap, young, idealistic
Speaker 2: media people. Ohways, for the player. But the truth is
Speaker 2: this transfer portal is imploding the coaching industry because you
Speaker 2: literally spend all your time not only recruiting out but
Speaker 2: in you're recruiting your own players. And I've had Jay
Speaker 2: Wright had another decade. He's like, I'm out. I understand.
Speaker 2: Skrzyzewsky could have remained just I'm done. Some of it
Speaker 2: is the NFL can pay coordinators a lot, but how
Speaker 2: much of this it does feel like to me where
Speaker 2: guys are like unless you have a Clemson Ohio State.
Speaker 2: But then I say that in Michigan and Bama's coaches left.
Speaker 2: Are we going to get to a point where an
Speaker 2: athletic director now doesn't have to worry about a college job.
Speaker 2: These guys will just take a three million dollar coordinator
Speaker 2: job and not have to recruit and deal with crap.
Speaker 1: I went to cocktails with a guy in the SEC,
Speaker 1: or a scout that does the SEC, and he was
Speaker 1: going and he sat down with one of the main
Speaker 1: coaches and he said, one thing that has changed dramatically
Speaker 1: over the last couple of years with the NIL and
Speaker 1: which is directly correlated with the transfer portal, it's all
Speaker 1: one big transaction. Where before, if a guy was struggling
Speaker 1: a younger player, it was your job as a college
Speaker 1: coach one just to help the human grow, but to
Speaker 1: help the player grow. Now the moment, even if you're
Speaker 1: an eighteen nineteen year old freshman or red shirt freshman,
Speaker 1: if you're getting paid four hundred grand, five hundred thousand,
Speaker 1: it's one big I'm treating you like the NFL and
Speaker 1: done will cut you. We want you to transfer, and
Speaker 1: the human element of that sport, which most of these
Speaker 1: guys playing college football are not going to pros. It's
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of their life with their coaches, why they
Speaker 1: become They form these bonds and it's all one big
Speaker 1: giant like stock market. Now, even in the NFL, W
Speaker 1: I have a contract with you. I can't just tomorrow
Speaker 1: be like I'm out, Colin. That's not the way the
Speaker 1: world works. And in college football, like Josh Allen like,
Speaker 1: oh we blew it, I'm just gonna leave this offseason, right,
Speaker 1: We're in college, Like, see, guys, I'm out. It always well,
Speaker 1: the coaches always did it well, yeah, I mean they
Speaker 1: didn't just leave the random programs. They usually typically upgraded
Speaker 1: the program. So yeah, Kaylin Duboor left to Alabama.
Speaker 2: Right, It's always funny whenever I hear that, Well, coaches,
Speaker 2: it's college. You're a college student. That's an administrator. College
Speaker 2: professors get tenure, college students don't. Let's they're not even
Speaker 2: the coach in college. The players not even to a coach.
Speaker 2: The contract not the way it works.
Speaker 1: I also think the nil the amount of teams that
Speaker 1: can pay guys now at the rates in which they
Speaker 1: have to be compensated, is dramatically smaller than the amount
Speaker 1: of Power five programs we have. So Jeff Hafley who
Speaker 1: leaves Boston College to go to Green Bay, if you
Speaker 1: just look at all the people that cover college football
Speaker 1: on the X or Twitter, I can't this is great.
Speaker 1: The NIO Boston College is probably a bottom five Power
Speaker 1: five job, like they should end up just playing like
Speaker 1: Division IE Double A football moving forward, like they have
Speaker 1: no shot. So if you're him, you're gonna get fired,
Speaker 1: right because seven wins is your max. You can't pay
Speaker 1: anyone who's available. And if you get a good player
Speaker 1: who's young, he's gonna leave. The teams in your conference
Speaker 1: Florida State, Miami, North Carol they can pay him, let
Speaker 1: alone all the other programs. Green Bay can pay you
Speaker 1: four or five million dollars. You go there? What a
Speaker 1: green Bay's good a defense the next couple of years
Speaker 1: and their team's obviously gonna be good. He's an NFL
Speaker 1: head coach, where at Boston College, he's gonna get fired.
Speaker 1: I would say it was a indictment on the on
Speaker 1: the situation, which is obviously all out of whack. If
Speaker 1: he left a top twenty five job, right, if the
Speaker 1: damn this guy left the University of Miami, or this
Speaker 1: guy left Texas or Oklahoma, he left Boston College? Right,
Speaker 1: Ryan Day is not leaving to be a coordinator in
Speaker 1: Ohio State, Right, He's staying there. Chip Kelly, why does
Speaker 1: Chip Kelly want? Well, One, he knows Big Ten, I'm
Speaker 1: probably in some trouble. And two like they're gonna fire
Speaker 1: me slash this sucks. He never liked that element of
Speaker 1: the sport anyway. Now would I hire him as my
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator? I mean, it seems like he tried to
Speaker 1: get one, didn't get one. But that's UCLA is not
Speaker 1: gonna be able to compete with the ni Look at
Speaker 1: their basketball program, it's in shambles. They can't pay with
Speaker 1: these other programs are paying. So that's where I think
Speaker 1: the more and more money that comes to the SEC
Speaker 1: in the Big ten, the top programs, the nil they're paying.
Speaker 1: Look at Nebraska, Dominic Riola's kid, the number one quarterback.
Speaker 1: I played with a golf with a guy a week
Speaker 1: ago that played football at Nebraska that lives in that area.
Speaker 1: He's like, rumors in town is the guy got four
Speaker 1: million dollars four million, which is pretty risky with a
Speaker 1: high school kid. But that's that's the going rate to
Speaker 1: get in bed with these guys. But what if he sucks? Like,
Speaker 1: what if he's not good? Is that a good? Would
Speaker 1: you pay four million dollars to a high school? This
Speaker 1: is not basketball at Anthony Davis. It's probably a fifty
Speaker 1: to fifty proposition. He's even a solid starter.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I've argued this about Nebraska football. It
Speaker 2: is the only program that was great thirty years ago
Speaker 2: that will never come back now. I felt Notre Dame
Speaker 2: because of their the isolation, the academic, the religious umbrella.
Speaker 2: But they've proven they can win when you get a
Speaker 2: great coach Brian Kelly, and that's what he is. But
Speaker 2: Nebraska lived off Prop forty eight. They lived in a
Speaker 2: world once they left the Big twelve. That means all
Speaker 2: those Texas recruits mom and dad can't watch them every week.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a terrible strategy. I don't think
Speaker 2: Nebraska is ever coming back, and I think their fan
Speaker 2: base full of wonderful, decent people. They still view themselves
Speaker 2: as this giant in college football, and I don't put
Speaker 2: them as a top fifteen program. So for them to say, listen,
Speaker 2: it's an offensive league NFL college football. We're gonna pivot
Speaker 2: to an offensive coach and we're gonna have to pay
Speaker 2: to get great quarterback play. I think the only way
Speaker 2: Nebraska can be a ten win team, the only way
Speaker 2: is to do almost a Chip kellyot Oregon, which is
Speaker 2: we're going to do stuff different. We're going to play
Speaker 2: a system in which we just really have all of
Speaker 2: our talent on offense, and if we don't win, we'll
Speaker 2: be absolutely wildly entertaining and lose shootouts to the Michigan
Speaker 2: Ohio State. I think Nebraska it's it's and I think dead.
Speaker 2: I mean, Washington's been great, disappeared, great disappear. I think
Speaker 2: MO schools that have been great can come back.
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I think Nebraska's only way is to go get a
Speaker 2: star quarterback and a star offensive coach, and that's it.
Speaker 1: Totally understand why they did it. It's why, like for example, Oregon,
Speaker 1: you could argue moving forward obviously was a really good
Speaker 1: job over the last twenty years. Is it a top
Speaker 1: five job in the country now? If you factor in
Speaker 1: the resources they have for in ile.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, a top top seven at least.
Speaker 1: When you have that like the Cowboys, they have this
Speaker 1: huge brand. But if Jerry signs his own guys, they
Speaker 1: never have any free agent cap space. So yeah, Jerry
Speaker 1: can have all this money, but who carry you can't
Speaker 1: sign any free agents right he never has any room
Speaker 1: where in college like Ohio State clearly spends the most.
Speaker 1: Right now, it's a huge, huge advantage right Oregon. Like
Speaker 1: Dan Lanning, I'm sure Alabama offered him the job. He's like, nah,
Speaker 1: I can win just much here and my path might
Speaker 1: even be easier in the Big ten. And the funding,
Speaker 1: I have the access to money to sign these guys,
Speaker 1: because it's outrageous now. I think one thing that I've
Speaker 1: heard from a lot of college buddies is the power.
Speaker 1: The good part about the portal and you're at one
Speaker 1: of the top programs is you can improve the talent
Speaker 1: really fast, and when you have the money to cut
Speaker 1: them checks. You know, an offensive lineman a couple hundred grand,
Speaker 1: a skilled guy maybe three four hundred thousand dollars, you
Speaker 1: can add five six players you're already recruiting well and
Speaker 1: mix that in and you can get good fast. That's
Speaker 1: why I do think we'll see over the next couple
Speaker 1: of years you'll see a team that we knew was
Speaker 1: good all of a sudden be a national championship contender
Speaker 1: on a given year. They may not be able to
Speaker 1: sustain it, like Ohio State or Alabama, but look at length.
Speaker 1: I just saw something on the internet today. Incredible year.
Speaker 1: Again in the transfer portal. He could have a season
Speaker 1: where could he win a national championship if it all
Speaker 1: goes right now? Is he gonna be able to sustain
Speaker 1: it for ten years? It's probably hard at that program
Speaker 1: like an organ like an Alabama, like an LSU. But
Speaker 1: when you can pay these guys, that drives these coaches nuts.
Speaker 1: It's such a there has to be some sort of
Speaker 1: limit of you just can't leave whenever you want. That's
Speaker 1: not how anything in society works. And like you said,
Speaker 1: the media celebrates it, loves it, of course they do.
Speaker 1: That's not the way the world works. You know. Even
Speaker 1: in college, if I want to get said coach, I
Speaker 1: have to pay a buyout, right, you got to pay.
Speaker 1: There's something coming back the other way. Okay, even Green Bay,
Speaker 1: I want to get Jeff Hafley. I'm sure they had
Speaker 1: to cut a couple of million dollar check to Boston College.
Speaker 1: If there's a by that's the way it works. Alabama
Speaker 1: had to pay for Kaylin Duboor. He has a player.
Speaker 1: It's like, see you, I'm out of here. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is not a it's not a sustainable model.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think and that's and that's it's not
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think college football is a buye.
Speaker 2: I got into this discussion with somebody because I like
Speaker 2: the business. I like sports, but I like the business.
Speaker 2: And I'll throw this at you. I said, the next
Speaker 2: twenty years, because I probably have about fifteen left in
Speaker 2: this space. I think podcasting.
Speaker 1: We're all younger now, yes, sixteen, new forty five. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I said, if you told me you can bet
Speaker 2: on four things going forward, you're a sports executive and
Speaker 2: at volume, I kind am, what would be the four
Speaker 2: things you had been on? And I said, NFL football,
Speaker 2: college football, gambling, and the UFC fight. When well regulated
Speaker 2: and smartly run, manage Dana White, it works. And the
Speaker 2: person said, well, what about the NBA? And I said,
Speaker 2: I love the NBA. It'll always have an audience. But
Speaker 2: I said, hockey, baseball and the NBA are getting very international,
Speaker 2: and college football is very domestic. NFL's domestic gambling. I said,
Speaker 2: UFC is the fight business. I've always been a fan
Speaker 2: of it. They'll always be able. They'll if you can
Speaker 2: stumble every couple of years into a Connor McGregor figure,
Speaker 2: it's just going to work. But I so I when
Speaker 2: I said this, I like the NBA, but I've never
Speaker 2: felt in all the years i've watched it that the
Speaker 2: first had after the trading deadline was less relevant. I mean,
Speaker 2: they're already like fifty games in. I watch those Saturday
Speaker 2: night games, but I'm watching the numbers. It's getting international.
Speaker 2: I'm okay with it, but Lebron and Steph they don't
Speaker 2: have the next guy. We know what the NBA when
Speaker 2: Michael left, they lost fifty percent of their audience. So again,
Speaker 2: I'm not bashing the NBA. I'm a fan of it,
Speaker 2: but give me the future in a league that's becoming
Speaker 2: incredibly international. And the NFL has taken away their Christmas
Speaker 2: Day marketing tipping point Day just said no, you're not
Speaker 2: going to do that anymore. That's done, so they basically stole.
Speaker 2: That was a big day for the NBA. That was
Speaker 2: the They owned the biggest marketing day Christmas, four games
Speaker 2: and the NBA just squashed it.
Speaker 1: What about Martin Luther King Day? They I mean they
Speaker 1: because of the weather, they did a doubleheader. Why wouldn't
Speaker 1: they do that? Moving forward to to two having two
Speaker 1: games on everyone's home on Monday that there were games
Speaker 1: doing three hundred thousand people on Martin Luther King Day
Speaker 1: in the NBA. But that's not a sustainable model. I think. Listen,
Speaker 1: I'm a great example. I grew up around an NBA
Speaker 1: town in Sacramento. I mean everyone when I grew up
Speaker 1: idolized Mitch Richmond. When Michael came to town, it was
Speaker 1: the hottest ticket. You get why because you knew Michael
Speaker 1: would play, and the Kings sucked and you knew Michael
Speaker 1: would show up. I mean, here's the problem. The Warriors
Speaker 1: are just not that good. I mean, Steph had sixty
Speaker 1: last night and they lost. And the Lakers are holding
Speaker 1: on for dear life, right. So I mean you're talking
Speaker 1: two teams those guys are easily the most famous guys,
Speaker 1: and two guys that take a lot of pride and
Speaker 1: putting on a show. I think the sports it has
Speaker 1: a lot of guys making a lot of money who
Speaker 1: just aren't worth the money. And it happens in basketball
Speaker 1: and football too. But let's think about football. Some guys
Speaker 1: get overpaid, but within a couple of years, if they're
Speaker 1: not worth it, they get cut. Oh yeah, in basketball,
Speaker 1: I signed a guy for two hundred million, Well you
Speaker 1: gotta do it because he's a max player, is he
Speaker 1: He's like the nineteenth best player in the league. And
Speaker 1: then in two years like this is a disaster. And
Speaker 1: that started happening at a rate where and then you
Speaker 1: start factoring in the guys not playing. The urgency of
Speaker 1: the league. I do think the NFL, clearly for the
Speaker 1: foreseeable future, is such a bohemoth. It's just it's just
Speaker 1: rolling college. There's been an urgency with the regular season.
Speaker 1: Games like the Michigan Ohio State game really mattered for
Speaker 1: the last definitely the last couple of years, right, it
Speaker 1: was felt like could be the national championship game. Now
Speaker 1: with both of them are going to be in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: does that game still you could argue in the NFL,
Speaker 1: it still feels like you knew the Ravens and the
Speaker 1: Niners the playoffs and at Christmas Night felt big, So
Speaker 1: maybe it will be unfair.
Speaker 2: I've had this discussion. I think the twelve game playoff
Speaker 2: will replace Auburn, Alabama and Michigan Ohio State to some
Speaker 2: degree as the game because I think those guys could
Speaker 2: play a second time. So I've argued December college football
Speaker 2: always died the Sun Bowl.
Speaker 1: You're always like, what's the Holiday Bowl? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Now, great college football regular season? I get, I get
Speaker 2: a playoff. So I think the sport died in December,
Speaker 2: lost its momentum, and then you're like, in January, oh,
Speaker 2: there's a game in three nights. I think I think
Speaker 2: those games will replace the other big games.
Speaker 1: There is also if you're sitting at home on Saturday
Speaker 1: night and you're like Penn State Michigan, whether both teams
Speaker 1: are going to the playoffs or not, there's a pageantry
Speaker 1: and intensity to the environment when you turn on your
Speaker 1: TV that's hard to turn off. Yeah, you turn on
Speaker 1: lsu Ole Miss at night in Baton Rouge, You're like,
Speaker 1: you're sitting on the couch and watch it for a
Speaker 1: little bit because that town, the fans care so much,
Speaker 1: and that that will not be lost right with the playoffs,
Speaker 1: won't face the regular season of the passion of the crowds,
Speaker 1: And think about the conferences that we're gonna watch the
Speaker 1: most moving forward, are going to be the sec in
Speaker 1: the Big ten? Well, who cares the most those two conferences.
Speaker 1: So part of it's the television product, right, Like part
Speaker 1: of a couple of weeks ago, when Stephen Lebron played,
Speaker 1: You're like, this doesn't look like the regular season NBM
Speaker 1: used to watch. And I felt like, and maybe it's
Speaker 1: just you know, romanticizing about the past and what you
Speaker 1: grew up on, but it felt like a lot of
Speaker 1: regular season games for a long period of time in
Speaker 1: the NBA, people tried. And I think in society, when
Speaker 1: you like to get my attention and to get you know,
Speaker 1: the consumer's attention when I turn on a sporting event,
Speaker 1: are you trying? Do I feel like you're giving it?
Speaker 1: In football, you do right? In baseball, just the nature
Speaker 1: of the sport, it's hard to tell, like you just
Speaker 1: this is a terrible gaming turned off. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: in basketball, like it felt like there's an urgency of
Speaker 1: the players beside the top couple guys that has been
Speaker 1: mostly lost throughout the course of a season, and that
Speaker 1: doesn't resonate with people. In twenty twenty four, when I
Speaker 1: got a million options, I couldn't find a movie last
Speaker 1: night and I got seventeen streaming services, but I eventually
Speaker 1: find one because I'm gonna click on enough. We have
Speaker 1: so many things to watch that I think it's never
Speaker 1: been harder to break through. And you know, obviously people
Speaker 1: just as you age, you get less dependent on like
Speaker 1: I have to watch this because I don't feel it matters.
Speaker 1: And the one thing football is always going to have,
Speaker 1: whether you're a college football fan or an NFL fan,
Speaker 1: it's just one game a week. It's three hours. It's
Speaker 1: pretty easy to.
Speaker 2: Consider well, and that matters more now because we're all
Speaker 2: more caffeinated, We're all people are working second jobs. Scarcity
Speaker 2: was an advantage, it's now a significant advantage. People are
Speaker 2: on their phones more. There's other I mean, the phones
Speaker 2: replaced the television people. They're just distracted constantly. So the
Speaker 2: one game a week was always an advantage. It now
Speaker 2: feels like unattainable for any sport to catch the NFL,
Speaker 2: and I think next year you're going to start seeing
Speaker 2: like ten ratings nationally for some of these playoffs, well,
Speaker 2: twelve to fifteens for the early round playoffs, eighteen twenties
Speaker 2: for the later rounds. Those are like, that's doubling the
Speaker 2: NBA finals. Those are big boy numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I go back to being a kid
Speaker 1: and going I remember seeing Alan Iverson score fifty and
Speaker 1: Sacramento like that version of Allan Iverson is not playing
Speaker 1: against a twenty win NBA team, And I think the
Speaker 1: moment that they've really struggled with that, and I know
Speaker 1: they've tried to put in some rules about playing when
Speaker 1: you make fifty million dollars, I'm sorry, I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do whatever the hell I want whenever I want,
Speaker 1: and the money's guaranteed it. It's just a structure of
Speaker 1: the contract. It's the best thing the NFL is going
Speaker 1: for is I'm not beholden to a player for a
Speaker 1: seven year contract if he's not good enough. If you
Speaker 1: keep producing, we'll keep paying, but if you're not, like,
Speaker 1: they move on. So all these free agents to sign
Speaker 1: these big deals within a couple of years, half of
Speaker 1: them are on a different team because they're not worth
Speaker 1: the money.
Speaker 2: Finally, we wrap it up John Middlikoff. When you live
Speaker 2: in California, it's fascinating to see how many people that
Speaker 2: don't live in California or never have have strong opinions
Speaker 2: about it. But I thought about you this week because
Speaker 2: I had a friend, another friend, a family leaving California. Now,
Speaker 2: the taxes here have always been high, but the spence
Speaker 2: now is high with the taxes, and it just kind
Speaker 2: of feels like it's endless.
Speaker 1: It's going up.
Speaker 2: The politics aside, it's priced out a lot of people.
Speaker 2: You make a very good living, you move to Arizona,
Speaker 2: So I was thinking about you. Arizona doesn't have the
Speaker 2: Mediterranean weather, but it's got a lot of sun. What
Speaker 2: is the move financially emotionally? If you'd address those, how
Speaker 2: has it been for you?
Speaker 1: I would say it's been incredible. I mean it's the
Speaker 1: best thing I've ever done. I would say this though.
Speaker 1: About California, there are like three separate places, right There's
Speaker 1: southern California. There's kind of the Greater Bay area, and
Speaker 1: then there's the Central Valley. And my dad was a
Speaker 1: tomato farmer, so you know, I grew up in the
Speaker 1: Sacramento Central Valley area, which is a lot differently different
Speaker 1: politically than the Bay Area. Even in LA. When living
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area, the price it's not sunny like
Speaker 1: LA or San Diego. The weather is dramatically different, so
Speaker 1: you pay the same price as, if not more expensive price.
Speaker 1: You could argue it's the most expensive place certain areas
Speaker 1: in America. And it was just like, I don't like
Speaker 1: being here anymore. So when I made the move one
Speaker 1: financially what I'm doing, it made a lot more sense.
Speaker 1: I needed kind of a jolt and a change, and
Speaker 1: I don't regret it at all. And you know, I
Speaker 1: live in a nice house now on right down the
Speaker 1: street from a golf course that the equivalent in Palo
Speaker 1: Alto or Danville, California would have been for way less,
Speaker 1: way more money. It just didn't pencil any anymore for me.
Speaker 1: And I love San Diego, Like I started going more
Speaker 1: and more to Southern California growing up because of sports,
Speaker 1: you like, I hate the Dodgers, I hate the Lakers.
Speaker 1: And then as you get older you go down there,
Speaker 1: You're like, damn this this, but the barry doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like that and the city, you know, it just it's
Speaker 1: a different world up there. I didn't like it as
Speaker 1: much anymore. And yeah, obviously the taxes why, but there's
Speaker 1: just a way a life part of it is. I
Speaker 1: do think Vegas and Scottsdale just a lot of California people.
Speaker 1: So there's an energy businesses are coming here, which it
Speaker 1: probably didn't feel like that twenty years ago or fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago. There's an energy that I like here that
Speaker 1: I would imagine the Bay Area had fifteen twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: I feel like the Bay Area changed dramatically. I can't
Speaker 1: speak to southern California because I have a lot of
Speaker 1: friends that live in San Diego and they love it.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's funny, so years ago when I was doing Local.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've ever told the story before,
Speaker 2: it probably have.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 2: When ESPN the ESPN opening came and I left Local,
Speaker 2: so I had told that time wife, I said, I'm
Speaker 2: going to go National or just stan Portland. The only
Speaker 2: exception would be KNBR and San Francisco. I love that city.
Speaker 2: So that was like nineteen years ago. I like, I
Speaker 2: would move there. You couldn't pay me to move to
Speaker 2: the Bay Area, even though there's so much I love
Speaker 2: about it, But it's just it's dirtier. It's different. I
Speaker 2: went there for the Super Bowl several years ago, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I went to the same restaurant three times.
Speaker 2: I'm like, they were just parts of the town. I
Speaker 2: was in by a nice hotel. I didn't feel that.
Speaker 1: I'm a colin. It's dramatic. That was twenty sixteen. It is.
Speaker 1: It's sad what happened. I mean, it's one of the
Speaker 1: great cities in the world, and right now it's it's
Speaker 1: falling apart. And that's yeah, and there's no putting. I
Speaker 1: don't believe New York City is a good example. And
Speaker 1: I lived in Philly, so I kind of know the way,
Speaker 1: and I know you've lived out there for there's a
Speaker 1: wiring of East Coast people, even a Democratic you know,
Speaker 1: which is the majority of people in Philly or New York.
Speaker 1: They'll draw a line in the sand, like enough of
Speaker 1: this bullshit. I don't think that's happening in San Francisco
Speaker 1: because there's this identity politics. The moment you say, like
Speaker 1: the criminal's wrong, it's just it's kind of jumped the shark.
Speaker 1: And I don't think you're getting it back now. I
Speaker 1: didn't live in the city, you know, I lived in
Speaker 1: the suburbs, but you could feel just the change in
Speaker 1: everything that it was in a lot during COVID. It
Speaker 1: was the most extreme. That was another thing. I came to,
Speaker 1: you know, Arizona, think nothing changed here. And that wasn't
Speaker 1: that I didn't see eye to eye with a lot
Speaker 1: of people, and it was I was tired of argue
Speaker 1: and tired of being negative about it. So I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna remove myself from the situation. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I did, and I don't. The other thing is an
Speaker 1: hour and a half flight. You know, if I want
Speaker 1: to go back to see my mom in Sacramento, LA's
Speaker 1: an hour away, Vegas an hour away. Everything's pretty easy
Speaker 1: to get around out here.
Speaker 2: So I yeah, I know, I've been watching you and
Speaker 2: I see your post how happy you are. Yeah, when
Speaker 2: I went to the super Bowl in San Francisco, and
Speaker 2: I'm and I'm socially I'm a pretty left leaning guy.
Speaker 2: But my son now lives in Portland, and you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's gotten. I mean, it's always been damped, but
Speaker 2: they are parts of town I don't want to walk
Speaker 2: around in. And I'm a six to two hundred and
Speaker 2: ninety five pound guy that works out. I'm not somebody
Speaker 2: that's bothered by you know, somebody that's you know, on
Speaker 2: the street, Like, I'm not bothered by it. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I try to be compassionate. But San Francisco, when I
Speaker 2: was at that Super Bowl years ago, I stayed at
Speaker 2: the Mark Hotel, I think it was called. It was
Speaker 2: up on the hill, and I'd walk around there at
Speaker 2: night and I'm like, how does a woman walk around here? Like,
Speaker 2: I don't get it at all. It's not safe, it's
Speaker 2: not So I'm glad. I'm glad that's worked for you
Speaker 2: because I've seen some friends leave California. My wife's not
Speaker 2: a big fan in California, and I just was kind
Speaker 2: of interested in your take.
Speaker 1: I think you did this too, you know sometimes not
Speaker 1: that I mean everything was going well professionally, but you
Speaker 1: almost get a jolt of energy when you make them. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you know, I've been lucky enough through work, been
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, California. Do this. I feel just rejuvenated. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's not even about you know, the taxes or the
Speaker 1: politic It is just something about just waking up in
Speaker 1: a different space that makes you just meet new people,
Speaker 1: get new ideas. And it's incredible. And then that you
Speaker 1: can't pay for that. You know, there's nothing you can
Speaker 1: do to pay for that.
Speaker 2: I've done. I've moved cross country three times. I don't
Speaker 2: regret any of them. There's no question I have. It's
Speaker 2: made my life fuller and broader. I have so many friends.
Speaker 2: I have great friends in Rhode Island, great friends in
Speaker 2: Connecticut Northwest. You don't get it if you stay in
Speaker 2: your hometown and you know Carmel, Indiana, which is a
Speaker 2: beautiful burbon I got no problem with it. But there
Speaker 2: is something, there is something to challenge yourself a little bit.
Speaker 2: So I'm just glad you've I'm glad you've crossed it.
Speaker 2: I watched your Twitter, I watch your social stuff, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, and just I just you seem happy. Of course,
Speaker 2: it always helps when you have an attractive person in
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 1: She's done well. I love it. What are you going
Speaker 1: out to Vegas, Colin?
Speaker 2: I'm flying in for the volume party. I'm on that treadmill,
Speaker 2: that host treadmill. So I got to be in LA
Speaker 2: so I'm flying out. I try to fly with the peeps.
Speaker 2: Have to do private to get in party. Three sales
Speaker 2: meetings cocktail back in a plane, fly out, get here
Speaker 2: at midnight, up at six in the morning, do a show.
Speaker 1: So I'm just there for no shows in Vegas for you.
Speaker 2: No, no, you know Fox, And I give Fox credit
Speaker 2: on this. You know when we have the super Bowl,
Speaker 2: it's different next year New d Yeah, yeah, so that'll
Speaker 2: be different. We'll probably go there a Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
Speaker 2: But Fox has never been Fox Sports has never been
Speaker 2: a company that's just going to do things because other
Speaker 2: people are doing them. And I sat down with management
Speaker 2: years ago and I said, I think radio row is
Speaker 2: played out if people want to do it. I said,
Speaker 2: I thought at ESPN my last few years, I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's over, it's played out.
Speaker 1: Half the interview is Joe Montana telling you about ARP
Speaker 1: or something. You're like, I don't even care. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's like I always I felt sometimes at the
Speaker 2: other place they did things because they felt a need
Speaker 2: to do them, or it was in the history. Fox
Speaker 2: is very entrepreneurial. If it doesn't make financial sense, you've
Speaker 2: got to talk them into doing it. And it's like
Speaker 2: I told my bosses, I'm like, I think it's totally
Speaker 2: played out. I said, if you go Monday, and strangely,
Speaker 2: the Monday of Super Bowl week there's been major breaking
Speaker 2: NBA trade stories, and so it's like I said, Monday, Tuesday,
Speaker 2: do it from home if you want to do Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
Speaker 2: I'm flying back Friday to be with my family. But
Speaker 2: I think I'm not a believer in doing things because
Speaker 2: Grandpa did them and Dad did them, and Fox to
Speaker 2: their credit, I will say this of all the companies
Speaker 2: I work for, and I've worked for several corporations, they
Speaker 2: have their own path. They do not care if everybody
Speaker 2: else is doing something. You can see it from Fox News.
Speaker 2: They're going to do what they believe in. And as
Speaker 2: a sportscaster, we just don't do shit because everybody else
Speaker 2: is doing it. And I love that about Fox Sports.
Speaker 1: We'll see you at the party Wednesday and beer's on you.
Speaker 2: Yes, they are good.
Speaker 1: See anybody the volume.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
Speaker 2: take a moment, rate and review