1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,319 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. I'd like to start out 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: today's episode with a shout out to our good pal 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: Jack O'Brien, creator of crack dot com as well as 12 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: creator and co host of the Daily Zeitgeist. Jack and 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: I were talking on Twitter a little bit about today's episode. 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: This is our update on something we've done recently, and 15 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: maybe the best way to get into it is to 16 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: say life is tough in public service. If you are 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: a firefighter, a teacher, a public defender, or even a diplomat, 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: um thank you for your service. You know that there's 19 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: a ton of stuff you have to deal with every 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: day that just doesn't get much media attention. And so 21 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: in the world of foreign service, the question people have 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: been asking in the US is what happens when a 23 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: disease seems made just for you? What happens when the 24 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: only demographic indicator for some kind of affliction isn't your 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's not your makeup necessarily, it's entirely your 26 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: employment a job based on disease. This is a question 27 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: we touched on the past, from explorations a tailor made 28 00:01:54,880 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: diseases to the inexplicably efficient curses like bone pointing in 29 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: Australian Papua New Guinea. Today we're diving into a new 30 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: iteration of this phenomenon folklore that's occurring as we record. 31 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,119 Speaker 1: It's something the world is still trying to figure out. 32 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: It's something called the Havana syndrome. Here are the facts, well, 33 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: the Havana syndrome. It's currently being described as a quote 34 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: set of medical symptoms with unknown causes. Uh. If there's 35 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: a description that's any more vague and amorphous than that, 36 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: I would love for you to show it to me. Um. Uh. 37 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: You know, a syndrome being a kind of catch all 38 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: of a group of symptoms, you know, a series of 39 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: kind of interrelated maladies, sort of like a ben as 40 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: you put it, A extra value meal where they used 41 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: to call them extra value meals. Do they still call 42 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: them that? Yeah? Probably probably a combo um, not necessarily 43 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: one singular condition with a singular cause. Um. It is 44 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: inherently vague and kind of, you know, a little bit mysterious. 45 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: The idea of a syndrome, the China syndrome, for example, 46 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and in this particular syndrome is pretty strange. 47 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: It's got a lot of different symptoms. You'll hear a 48 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: lot about migraines, about brain fog, tiredness, and inability to 49 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: complete simple tasks for your job, especially you know, as 50 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: a diplomat, just simple things that your computer or sending emails, 51 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: making phone calls, things like that. Um. There's other things too, hearing, clicking, 52 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: bringing in the ears. It's a it's a whole bunch 53 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: of weird stuff going on at one time. Yeah, yeah tonight, 54 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: as uh, the the sensation of pressure or vibration in 55 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: one's head, and of course nausea, lack of coordination, things 56 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: like that. It is a panopoly of symptoms, right, And 57 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: this again seems to primarily target government officials, members of 58 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: the intelligence community in the US, and a couple I 59 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: think a couple of folks in Canada where this was 60 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: first reported. But but particularly when they're operating abroad. Yes, yes, exactly, 61 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: So this is not happening in Langley. Very important note. 62 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: So first things first, and I I am so glad 63 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: that we are returning to this we talked about in 64 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: Strange News, we talked about it in a previous episode, 65 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: but one thing we didn't point out. Regardless of what 66 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: you think of Havannah syndrome after hearing our show today, 67 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: we need to agree on this one thing. The name 68 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: is utter bullet and it's unfair. It's like it's called 69 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: the Havannah syndrome only because the first publicly acknowledged reports 70 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: surfaced amid US and Canadian embassy staff in Havana, Cuba. 71 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: And that's similar to the way the world did Spain 72 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: so very dirty with the nineteen eighteen Spanish flu epidemic. 73 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: It didn't come from Spain. It's called the Spanish flu 74 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: because Spain, out of all the countries, did the right 75 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: thing and did not suppress reports of a deadly influence 76 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: of virus spreading. Yeah, but we also know that, like 77 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: I mean, these types of names have political clout to 78 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: them or they are their political capital in some ways, 79 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: like you know how Donald Trump very desperately tried to 80 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: rebrand UH COVID nineteen to the Chinese flu or the 81 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: China virus or whatever. Um. You know, the idea of 82 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: calling it the Havanna syndrome UH in some way sort 83 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: of displaces the blame or kind of you know, makes 84 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: people think of it in a certain light. Um. You know, 85 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: similarly to the Spanish flu, even though it isn't necessarily 86 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily something that was caused by um Spain, as 87 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: in the case of the Havanna syndrome, not necessarily caused 88 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: by you know, the government of Cuba. Per se. It's 89 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: it's it's still a little up in the air. But also, 90 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: I just want to backtrack really quickly, I said at 91 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: the beginning of the show, when describing what a syndrome was, 92 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: I I dropped the term China syndrome, which is a 93 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: movie about a nuclear meltdown. Um, not a disease, but 94 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: the word syndrome it's so amorphous and catch all that 95 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: it can also refer to just like a set of 96 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: circumstances like not in my backyard syndrome is that Wikipedia 97 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: puts it um. So there are lots of ways of 98 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: using syndrome and and and of itself. It's kind of 99 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: like the vaguest of possible catch all terms. Just for 100 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: my money, guys, Havana syndrome does make sense because it 101 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: was the American embassy in Havana, Cuba, where it originated, 102 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: right where we first noticed it in reports first came 103 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: out at least. But I think we should call it 104 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: the the Moscow signal to agree. So, but I I 105 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: think we are making an important point. You know, the 106 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: government of Cuba, as he said earlier, likely has nothing 107 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: to do with this, and they're probably rightly a little 108 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: peeved that they're being that they the name of the 109 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: capital of their country is now attached to an amorphous 110 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: thing that people consider either a uh possibly a disease 111 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: or injury from some sort of Sci Fi level uh 112 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: directed energy weapon. But what you know, what you call it? 113 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: If you live in Cupid, you know what they call it. 114 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: They don't call if it is like the what do 115 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: you call a quarter pounder conversation? Right this uh in Cuba? 116 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: If you are working in this field or if you're 117 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: working in the field of medicine, etcetera. You will probably 118 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: not call it, well, you definitely won't call it havana syndrome. 119 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: You'll probably call it unidentified health incidences or you h 120 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: I it's our our new addition to all the unidentified 121 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: things we love, unidentified submerged objects, unidentified aerial phenomenon. Now 122 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: we have unidentified health incidents. Less sexy, less provocative, much 123 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: more accurate. But maybe we did when we talked about 124 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: this when the news was breaking. But maybe we should 125 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: start by doing a quick recap of what went down 126 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: in Cuba, which, by the way, I love that we 127 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: have a job where I can say sentences like that 128 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: at work, Like, maybe let's start with what went down 129 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: in Cuba? All right, Well, yeah, we first learned about 130 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: it in seventeen when the first reports began coming out, 131 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: but we do know that it was in sixteen when 132 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: diplomats and people working there in a Vana Cuba noticed 133 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: that something was happening. They were experiencing symptoms. And let's 134 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: see what was it. There were twenty one individuals initially 135 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: I think, or around around twenty one individuals or at 136 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: least twenty one that were acknowledged of having symptoms in 137 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: ten when those reports first came out, but then uh, 138 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: it was up to twenty six individuals, and that that's 139 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: really what we would call the the original class of 140 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: p a group of people who were affected by this. Yeah. Yeah. 141 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: And then, just like maybe a contagious or transmissible disease, 142 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: this syndrome, reports of it at least quickly expanded to 143 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: other locations across the planet, with one commonality. It seemed 144 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: to exclusively affect US government personnel, like people living in 145 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: the neighborhood of embassies nationals and say China or Taiwan 146 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: or something. They weren't being affected. The people reporting this 147 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: were virtually all working for Uncle Sam and the New 148 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: York Times. That have just been really quickly that has 149 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: expanded to some families of diplomats now and intelligence agents. Yes, 150 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: that is correct, and that's a very that's a very 151 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: important point. But the point still holds that people who 152 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: are not working with where were relationships with these people, 153 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: but we're living the same geographic area, were not infected, 154 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: which is not the way transmissible disease usually works. Right. 155 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: Disease or an infection does not necessarily care what kind 156 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: of job you have, And that's already you know, curious, 157 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: or and curious, or as Lewis Carroll would say. New 158 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: York Times had a great article on this, summing up 159 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: some of the events, and they said that the way 160 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: they put it is in seen those twenty one folks 161 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: that you mentioned, Matt, they started to report neurological symptoms. 162 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: These were serious. These weren't just you know, bouts of 163 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: migraine headaches that come and go. In some cases, the 164 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: people involved seemed debilitated and they had no real um 165 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: They had no real explanation for what was happening. And 166 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: some of them are actually the majority of the original 167 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: folks they said. These symptoms were she did by a 168 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: high pitched piercing sound, which they reported differently. They have 169 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: varying kind of interpretations and recollections of what they heard. 170 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: But they felt like they have walked through a quote, 171 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: invisible beam of energy. This is under the Trump administration, 172 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: and the Trump administration reacted quickly. Fifteen Cuban diplomats foreign 173 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: officers got kicked out at d C, and then the 174 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: White House also moved the majority of its staff out 175 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: of the embassy in Havana. Yes, it's interesting, there's a 176 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: there's a really cool new Yorker piece about this by 177 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: Adam and Twoson John Lee Anderson called the Mystery of 178 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: the Havannah Syndrome UM. And one of the central characters 179 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: or figures I guess and it was a career diplomat 180 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: named Audrey Lee Um. And she described on March seventeen 181 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: of UM she came home from working at the embassy 182 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: and made supper for our family. She had twins or 183 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: has twins, UM and her husband who who was not 184 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 1: there at the time, he was away on business of 185 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: his own. UM. And then she started experiencing those symptoms 186 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: that you're talking about. She described it as feeling as 187 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: though she had been I was the word she used, 188 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: like something had struck her. She had been struck, That's 189 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: how she described it. Um. And she felt this burst 190 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: of pressure in her head and then stabbing sensations, very 191 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: very very painful, she described. And Um it was determined 192 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: by her paste on these rumors I guess at the 193 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: time were rumors around the embassy that these were due 194 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: to some kind of attack of some sort, some sort 195 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: of sonic weapon. And the reason I get to this 196 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: is um she overheard it was such common knowledge around 197 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: the embassy that she actually heard security guards kind of 198 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: having a conversation about it and saying the phrase get 199 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: off the X. That was what really hit me. Um. 200 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: There's a really good NBC mini doc about this um 201 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: as well, you can look down on YouTube. But that 202 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: refers to the dea of this being a localized thing. 203 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: Move off the X if you're feeling these symptoms, moved 204 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: to a different area where maybe it'll go away because 205 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: whatever is affecting you isn't there. And she did that 206 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: and she felt better. Mm hmmm. Yeah. And this is 207 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: this is important too, because there's a point you brought 208 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: up that I want to kind of highlight, which is 209 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: the role of communication. Uh. There is validation in all 210 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: communication or in you know, effective communication, and that's something 211 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna see play out in a big, big way here. 212 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: So since those initial reports in Cuba, more reports came in. 213 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: People in Russia, people in Georgia, the Country, people in Poland, Taiwan, Australia, Columbia, Kyrgyzstan, Austria, 214 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: I thought you would like that with me, of course, Austria, 215 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: Uzbekistan and China. And these reports will probably continue coming in. 216 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: We don't know, given given some of the necessary secrecy 217 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: around some of these events. We probably won't know for 218 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: a while the full number of people who believe that 219 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: they have been affected by this, and the U S 220 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: Government has at this time not released any official tally 221 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: of the number of people reporting these symptoms. Uh, the 222 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: closest you can find is some reports in US media, 223 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: like September of one, MPR had a piece on on 224 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: the CIA chief in Vienna getting recalled because of the 225 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: way he was handling this, and they noted that there 226 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: are currently an estimated two hundred plus cases around the world. 227 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: In a world of almost eight billion people, that's not 228 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: a lot. But in the world of in this rarefied 229 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: air of diplomacy and intelligence and all of that muky stuff, 230 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: two plus is a lot of people. It's not that 231 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: you'd be worried if you worked at an embassy. I 232 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: think that's that's the story how this came back into 233 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: our lives because of that that small you know, the 234 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: stories that Jimson in about Vienna. Then we had that 235 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: tiny little piece. It was like, oh, yeah, it's happening 236 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: in Vienna now too, and now we're here talking about 237 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: it again because we didn't realize I didn't realize personally 238 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: how far this thing had spread. As Ben just described, 239 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: there all these different countries, you'll even see it being reported. 240 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: I think there's a one off case that occurred in 241 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: Vietnam when current Vice President Kamala Harris was in like 242 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: visiting in Vietnam and then one of her one of 243 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: her staff that was there was along with her, was 244 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: affected by this. Yeah, yeah, you're right, and that that 245 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: interfered with the VPS trip as well because they wanted 246 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: to air on the side of costume. Which makes sense 247 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: at this point, folks. Havana syndrome, whatever it is or 248 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: is not, it doesn't appear to be lethal, which is 249 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: good news. What we mean is no one has died 250 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: as a result of this set of ill defined get it, 251 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: ill defined symptoms, but yet yet it's very important. It's 252 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: a very important figure to raise there. But here's the 253 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: strangest part. It's a question we asked in our previous 254 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: episode on this what exactly is Havannahs syndrome? Aside aside 255 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: from the terrible branding of the name, what's causing it? 256 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: Multiple individuals right now, scientists and several individuals in the 257 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: employee of the government a really cool group called the Jason's. 258 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: They all will tell you that they are pretty conclusive 259 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: on the answer, but there's a big problem here. They 260 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: don't agree with each other. There there is no official 261 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: conclusion yet, there are a lot of officials who have 262 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: reached conclusions, and these conclusions contradict. So what's really going on. 263 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: We're gonna pause for work from our sponsor and then 264 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: we're diving in. Here's where it gets crazy. Okay, this 265 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: is this is something we we also need to talk about. 266 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: Then it's something that I know the three of us 267 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: have talked about pretty often off air and maybe on 268 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: air a little bit too. There is a dangerous potential 269 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: side effect any time an official makes a conclusion on 270 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: their own, right like if if a president, if a 271 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: police chief, if an ambassador, what have you, states their 272 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: opinion as a conclusion or says I believe this, Then 273 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: that opinion or that personal conclusion can be confused with 274 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: an actual official conclusion. This means that if you were 275 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: just to watch one person talking on one news report, 276 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: you read one article, one statement by saying I don't know, 277 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: like a CIA chief in Vienna or something, you might 278 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: think that the case is wrapped up, but you probably 279 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: don't know the whole story. That's why that's why we're 280 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: still doing this episode today because it gets so weirdly complicated. 281 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: Experts disagree, and we say experts, we mean like the 282 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: experts capital T, capital E. So we talked about this before, um, 283 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: the idea of directed energy attacks. I used the phrase 284 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: earlier sonic weapon, which again is another kind of like 285 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: vague sci fi catch all kind of term that was 286 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: used in that New Yorker article. Um, but what is 287 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: a directed energy weapon? Microwaves is one of the most 288 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: plausible causes identified by a National Academies of Science report 289 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: that was commissioned by the Department of State. But initially 290 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: they've floated out the idea that this could be that 291 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: aforementioned sonic weapon, which we'll get to in just a sec. 292 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: And this is also a reason that you'll find some 293 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: folks that believe that this is some sort of example 294 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: of mass hysteria, a psycho somatic phenomenon where people observe 295 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: others freaking out and essentially it becomes contagious. You know, 296 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: this idea of um mimicking the behavior of others or 297 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: it becoming you know, in some way a thing that 298 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: can spread like a Salem witch trials kind of thing 299 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: or a Satanic panic type of situation. So these are 300 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: the two kind of big buckets of explanations for these 301 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: symptoms um and currently very important members of the same 302 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: governments seem to not be on the same page about 303 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: which of these it is at all. Well, and there's 304 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: a I mean you could hopefully you can see why 305 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: these are the two prevailing things, right, just do the 306 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: Due to the nature of some of these simple ms, 307 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: you can imagine why any expert who's imagining the possible 308 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: tech out there that could cause something like this, you 309 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: go to, Okay, it's something that's using sound waves, that 310 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,959 Speaker 1: would that would account for the high pitched, you know, 311 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: stuff going on with the ears and how it affects 312 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: the brain that way, or it's microwaves, because we've seen 313 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: this kind of thing before, Ben and All. I think 314 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: the big issue here is the word weapon. I think 315 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: that's where we're getting tripped up on all this, where 316 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: someone who's on the highly skeptical side saying this is, 317 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: you know, this is psycho somatic because these that kind 318 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: of weapon doesn't exist. I think that's the problem. The 319 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: weapon because this kind of tech exists, just not as 320 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: a directed weapon that you would fire at an adversary. Right, Like, 321 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: the first thing you want to find in a murder 322 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: is the murder weapon, right, or it's one of the 323 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: first things you want to find. So the big, big question, 324 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: this is a question Jack and I had as well, 325 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: is like where is the weapon? Right? If we know 326 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: this kind of technology exists, Um, but due to the 327 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: nature of it, and we talk a little bit about 328 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: the possible physics here in our previous episode, due to 329 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: the nature of it, you can get a kind of 330 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: spider sense for where this thing, like the distance within 331 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: which it would have to be located to have these 332 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: effects on people. Again, all theoretical at this point, but 333 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: that didn't stop people like Christopher Miller, it was, a 334 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: former Secretary of Defense in the Trump administration, for claiming 335 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: publicly this was a directed energy weapon. He also called 336 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: it an act of war. This is hashtag no chill, 337 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: by the way, and multiple former and current members of 338 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: the intelligence community appear to agree. In in a political way, 339 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about people you might consider being left wing 340 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: people you might consider being right wing um who usually 341 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: disagree about everything. Right, That this camp has both of 342 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: those folks in it. They and most of those most 343 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 1: of the people who believe it was a directed energy 344 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: weapon also believe Russia is behind the syndrome. Uh spoiler alert. 345 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: Russia denies any involvement. When do they ever cop to 346 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: anything that you know, oh man, yeah, yeah, but it's 347 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: it's funny like with I mean, this is terrible to say, 348 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: but with polonium assassinations, that was pretty much copying to evolvement. 349 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: You know. Also, if you're listening to Russia's stay away 350 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: from the windows. Yeah, but it may very well not 351 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: be Russia at all. I mean, that's we got to 352 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: keep that as a possibility, even though it's gonna get 353 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: into there's there's a precedent. But okay, let's let's get 354 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: and I am not trying to disparage the average Russian 355 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: citizens out there who may may not be listening to 356 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: the show. I just think Russia as a government has 357 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: a history of being pretty tricksy. I think we can 358 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: all kind of agree on that. Not that we don't, 359 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: but uh, they sort of pride themselves on, uh, you know, 360 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: admitting nothing. Um so it just doesn't really surprise me there. 361 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of descent as well, you know, 362 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: voices of dissent. Uh. Some people believe that this is 363 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: the result of some sort of intentional attempt to harm 364 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: intelligence officials, which is what we talked about, but others 365 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: think it's some sort of side effect of some high 366 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: tech attempt to you know, steal classified intelligence from phones 367 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: and computers. So perhaps a proximity effect from some technology 368 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: that's being used within the agency, as Ben said, it 369 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: can be also it can also be stolen from windows, 370 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: not the software hardware, right right. And then what's interesting 371 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: about that too is just just so we all have 372 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: a scope of how advanced some of that observational technology 373 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: can be. It's totally possible to hear a conversation by 374 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: aiming a laser at a window and the people in 375 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: the room with the window will be discernible. So like 376 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: it's not out of the realm of possibility as space 377 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: age as it sounds. One one thing we mentioned radio 378 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: frequencies too, by the way, Yes, and name for it. 379 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: There's a name for that piece of equipment. It's called 380 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: like a something catcher or like a something fisher. There's 381 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: there's there's names for like there's a name for a 382 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: piece of equipment like that you can literally use to 383 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: like intercept radio frequencies or um, you know, cell phone conversations. 384 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: But I think I may be miss book earlier when 385 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: I was saying, um, that this maybe would have been 386 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: as a result of stuff being used within the embassy. 387 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: This would have been stuff that was being targeted at 388 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: the embassy to try to steal their intel. Correct, Uh, yeah, 389 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: it could have been with that explanation, or in that case, 390 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: it could be possible that there was an inside person 391 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: who likes set the thing up. Um, no one knows. Well, 392 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: if it's when someone knows, no one publicly knows. So 393 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: they're not saying they're not saying that's right. They have 394 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: not made an official statement. So if you are diving 395 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: into this, one of the first questions you're gonna ask is, rightly, 396 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: if it's a weapon, where's the weapon? But another question 397 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: we need to ask immediately is if there are symptoms, 398 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: what are the symptoms and can we find physical traces 399 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: of those. This is where the Journal of the American 400 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: Medical Association or JAMA comes into play. In eighteen, they 401 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: published a study I alluded to this. When we're talking 402 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: about this earlier led by a guy who's pretty legit. 403 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: His name is Douglas H. Smith. He's the director of 404 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: the Center for Brain Injury and Repair at University of Pennsylvania. 405 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: And his team looked at people reporting these symptoms and 406 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: they found signs of brain damage, but they found no 407 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: signs of impact to the patient's skull. And they used 408 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: a really weirdly poetic term for this. They called this 409 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: kind of trauma and immaculate concussion and I know what 410 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: what an album named uh? And so. Smith also said 411 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: most of most of the folks on his team were 412 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: pretty skeptical about this going in, and then later they 413 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: all unanimously concluded something is there, so much so that 414 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: they did another study the next year in nineteen and 415 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: they largely agreed with their earlier findings. That's fascinating, And 416 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna get to the whole idea of like mass 417 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: hysteria and what that means. But this stuff sure points 418 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: the finger at something. It felt quite know what that is? Uh, 419 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: there's involved, I mean, and you can touchless brain damage, 420 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like an unseen mover causing 421 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: people's brains to malfunction. Just wait until their white blood 422 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: cell levels are are heightened in the next couple of years. 423 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: And I think we maybe brushed over it a little 424 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: bit or maybe not, but like, I mean, one of 425 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: the big things that was described here is the idea 426 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: of brain fog and of not being able to like 427 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: read things, you know, like the woman that I described, 428 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: miss lee Um in the New Yorker piece, she at 429 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: breakfast with her kids, like couldn't read the cereal box 430 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: and things like that. Like this the sort of like 431 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: bursts of uh confusion and and this is sort of 432 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: like you know, almost like borderline stroke like symptoms, you know, 433 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: like where you like kind of just like are all 434 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: of a sudden like in a fugue state. Yeah, and this, Uh, 435 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: I think this goes back to what you were saying earlier, Matt, 436 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: Like the one of one of the key things is 437 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: uh temporary inability to pomplish relatively simple task. Let's let's 438 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,959 Speaker 1: go into this. Let's go into the idea of something 439 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: being psychogenic or psycho semantic, attic, insane. Uh. There there 440 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: there's another. There's the other side of the camp. The 441 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: other contradictory information here or contradictory belief is a growing 442 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: number of people. Also high level experts, also high level scientists, 443 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: think that this is quite possibly entirely psycho semantic. What 444 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: does that mean, Well, first, it does not mean that 445 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: people are purposely making something up. It does not mean 446 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: that they are lying, and it does not mean that 447 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: their experiences are invalid. It means that while people may 448 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: genuinely believe they've been affected by some sort of James 449 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: Bond level spy machinery, they have instead succumbed somehow to 450 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: an outbreak of mass hysteria. And shout out to the excellent, 451 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: excellent book Outbreak if you would like to learn more 452 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: about this. It's it's the best encyclopedia I've found of 453 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: mass hysteria outbreaks throughout history. It is such a good 454 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: and disturbing read. It's one of the things that almost 455 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: just connected to like the placebo effect, where if you 456 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: truly believe that you're getting the right medication or something 457 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: that's supposed to have an effect, then you can trick 458 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: your body into experiencing a positive result. Um and I 459 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: believe there's an opposite of that called the no sebo effect, 460 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: where you can literally trick your body into being sick, 461 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: which you know in this scenario is kind of what 462 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: this would be if people truly believe based on remember 463 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: all that communication you were talking about Ben and overhearing 464 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: kind of the scuttle butt around the embassy about sonic 465 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: weapons and hearing whispers of all this kind of stuff. 466 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: If you really believe that you're being targeted by this, 467 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: and you start to hear other people that validate your belief, 468 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: then it can make it persevere and maybe you can 469 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: get more intense. Can I tell you guys that want 470 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: to comment on this? Uh? Yeah, no, you're right. Um. 471 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: A couple of days after we recorded that episode featuring 472 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: the stories from Vienna where we brought Havana syndrome back up, 473 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: I think I experienced something kind of like this where 474 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it a lot. I was talking 475 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: about it with you guys, and then uh talking about 476 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: it with a couple of other friends, and late at 477 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: night when I was getting just hanging around in my house, 478 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: I was in my bedroom and my I heard a 479 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: clicking sound in my right ear I'm not kidding, and 480 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: then a high pitched tone like tenitis like I get 481 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: when with when I'm playing symbols too much or something, 482 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: and it lasted for quite a while. I felt nauseous 483 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: and I had to lay down, and I felt really weird. 484 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: Um And I don't know if it's possible that my 485 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 1: brain could just cause these effects to occur, because I've 486 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: been thinking about it and talking about it a lot. 487 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what happened within my brain 488 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: when I experienced it, but I know I experienced something 489 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: like it. Um. And I highly doubt that I'm being targeted, 490 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: that my house is being targeted for any reason. So 491 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: I'm just putting it out there that, like you may 492 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: think that, oh, that's impossible. I my brain could never 493 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: like trick itself into experiencing something. But I just would 494 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: say to you, it can. Um. And it feels very 495 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: weird when you identify that it has. Yeah. And then also, 496 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: I mean it goes back to in some ways, it's 497 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: like a version of peer pressure, right, Uh, like that 498 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: experiment I talked about earlier, where where it was clear 499 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: that people will, uh, people will make a inaccurate or 500 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: incorrect conclusion just so they can fit in with a group, 501 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: like which line is longer, which line is the same length. 502 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: That's scary and it's very human. Other historical examples of 503 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: mass psychogenic illnesses or phenomenon would be stuff like the 504 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: dancing plagues of the Middle Ages, or our episode on 505 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: the screaming epidemics in rural Malaysia, or for something more recent, 506 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: what about the various accounts of uh teenagers developing facial 507 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: ticks after watching a lot of videos of someone with 508 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: Tourette syndrome on TikTok. There's a level of communication here 509 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: that is maybe not entirely consensual, is what I'm saying. 510 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: The anti weapon school of thought, let's call them, that 511 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: found some pretty high level proponents and this is this 512 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: is a story that I think it's funny. I don't 513 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: know if we need to go too deep on this, 514 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: but it's it's interesting because it's a great illustration of 515 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: how science should work. The initial claims of sonic weapons. 516 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: This came about because a lot of the victims description 517 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: included those noises similar to what you're mentioning, matt Uh. 518 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: Not everyone reported hearing a sound. Not everyone said they 519 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: heard the same thing, but still that's a good place 520 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: to start. So were these folks in Cuba hearing a weapon? 521 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: Various physicists have shot this down. Dr Jurgen Altman particular 522 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: stood out to me. He said, I know of no 523 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: acoustic effect that can cause concussion symptoms. Sound going through 524 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: the air cannot shake your head. And then there was 525 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: an alleged recording of the sonic attack. Cool, that's evidence, right, 526 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: That's like the recording of a gunshot if there is 527 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: a weapon in play. But some biologists got in the game. 528 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: They investigated this and they were able to conclusively identify 529 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: the sound. It wasn't a sonic weapon. Well, it wasn't 530 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: a man made sonic weapon. It was the banging tunes 531 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: of the humble a neuro grillis Sellernicus. Uh allowed cricket, 532 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: a very very loud cricket. Look, but look upon my chirps, 533 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: he mighty. It's basically when those uh, those cricket legs 534 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: are deadly, uh you know, and they're like the tiny 535 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: world's tiniest violin playing the saddest song on massum. But no, 536 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: I mean, anyone that lives around the neck of the 537 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: woods that we're at um, you know this sound, or 538 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: at least that's cicada's and crickets they make a similar sound, 539 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: and it's a giant group of them, and it creates 540 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: something that the ear perceives as being a kind of 541 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: a continuous um kind of hum. Right, m hmm, yeah, 542 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: and uh we go to Fernando monte Al grey Zapata, 543 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: who was a professor of sensory biology at the University 544 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: of Lincoln, and this guy was involved in the study 545 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: the biologists conducted and he confirmed that this is a 546 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: Caribbean species of cricket. Its call is going through it 547 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: about seven killer hurts and it's at a high rate, 548 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: which means if you're walking around rocking human general issue ears, 549 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: you're gonna hear a continuous, sharp trill when these crickets 550 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: are emitting their calls. So they're not superspies, they're just 551 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 1: very loud. They don't have indoor voices. That's what happened 552 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 1: and this, Yeah, but it's it's interesting if you've got 553 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: a loud enough you know, sound at the same frequency 554 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: occurring for a long enough period of time, it can 555 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: cause hearing damage. And some of those things those sensations 556 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: like losing some losing a frequency or two in your ears, 557 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: so you know there that could be part of the problem. 558 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: And it doesn't that often, Like when you lose that frequency, 559 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: then you get tonitis like in that frequency where you 560 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: hear it constantly. It's that's true, and that's valid. Point counterpoint, 561 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: I would say, why did no one in Havana report 562 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: that before? Well, and to your earlier point, been about 563 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: the proximity effect, right, like if if short of these 564 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: devices being stationed directly in the homes of these individuals 565 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: that were being you know, afflicted, Um, what about the 566 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: people standing in between? You know what? I mean? What 567 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: about the people in the streets? You know? What about 568 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: the other people living in the neighborhoods and nearby houses? 569 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: These are presumably maybe passed through. That's the part again, 570 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: because the technology is so we don't know what this is, 571 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: So we don't know how with the mechanism of targeting 572 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: would be and how to even deploy it. So I 573 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: think that's what causes a lot of like head scratching 574 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: at least in like the with the people that are 575 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: able to talk about it. I mean, maybe this does 576 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: exist and there's just like a small cadre of folks 577 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 1: that know about what this is, but we can't hear 578 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: about it. Uh, A conspiracy of crickets, I love it, Ben, 579 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,479 Speaker 1: What if the crickets can send that send seven killer 580 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: hurt signal, bounce it off the windows, and then record 581 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: it in their little cricket robot bodies are saying, aren't real, 582 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: Let me get my matrix glasses out. Saved that for 583 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: this one. So yes, uh uh man, all right, well 584 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: I'm putting away the glasses there, So we ruled out 585 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: one possible explanation. Crickets are probably not superspies. But what 586 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: about the other possibilities? To answer that, we have to 587 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: turn on the microwave after a word from our sponsors. 588 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: Beep beep beep, No, Doc, don't cut those beeps. This 589 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 1: is we're doing a bit uh microwave. But for your 590 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: mind one of the strongest supporting mind crow wave. There 591 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: it is there, it is cut print. No, that's perfect. 592 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: Uh the mind crow wave brilliant. So one of the 593 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: strongest arguments for the idea of a directed energy weapon 594 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: and the idea that Russia might be behind it. Is 595 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: something that you mentioned earlier, Matt, the Moscow's signal. What 596 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: is that uh messed up thing that you barely hear about, 597 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,240 Speaker 1: Like I barely know about this, and I'm so interested 598 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: in this stuff, and I barely know about it. Uh, 599 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: because I've never had proximity to the State Department, I 600 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: suppose I don't know, Um, but it's it's an older 601 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: story from I want to say, the nineteen seventies, Ben. 602 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just pulling this from the top 603 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: of my head. I think it was nineteen seventies in Moscow, 604 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: at an embassy there and in a couple of other 605 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: places in Moscow where Americans were operating. Uh is that right? Yeah? Yeah, okay, okay, yeah. 606 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: But the thing I remember, Ben, is a specific listening 607 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: device that was placed in a couple like within the 608 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: walls of a building where diplomats were we're functioning. That 609 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: required I think it was microwaves to be sent into 610 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: the building to activate the listening devices. I think that's 611 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: what you tell me the actual story, Ben, That's just 612 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: what I remember. Well, well, first this is not we're 613 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: not experts on this, but this is not a classified 614 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,959 Speaker 1: thing any longer, I think. Uh, Noel, Matt, I think, 615 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: first off, most importantly, we can agree that the Moscow 616 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 1: Signal is a great name for a band and their album, 617 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: their debut album is Immaculate Concussion. Right. Also, either of 618 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: those could be a good name for a nice stiff cocktail. 619 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: That's true. I would be frightened of a cocktail called 620 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: immaculate concussion. I'll have yours then, Ben, Okay, well you 621 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: have to when I'll drive, because I don't think you 622 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: could drive after those. But but yes, So the Moscow 623 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: signal is public knowledge now, to the point that there 624 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: is a Wikipedia page on this that you can read 625 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: that has some pretty good sourcing, which you can't always 626 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: say about Wikipedia. So this describes a microwave transmission that 627 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: was directed at the U. S. Embassy and as Matt said, 628 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,800 Speaker 1: probably some other places as well, starting in at least 629 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three to about nineteen seventy nine. It was 630 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: around for a long time. Um, and I need to 631 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: lean on you guys for a little bit of of 632 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: a comparison description of how this signal was rated. So 633 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: the Moscow Signal over those decades is varying between two 634 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: point five to four gigga hurts, and that cricket over 635 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: there terrorizing the embassy in Cuba allegedly is calling at 636 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: about seven killer hurts. So what's what's the difference here? 637 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: What what gives? How do they compare? Well, typically, like 638 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 1: something that would be can said at a high frequency 639 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: in sound way, It's just be something between thirty killer 640 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: hurts and three hundred mega hurts. So what you're describing 641 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: is a little below that. And for reference, Matt, what 642 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: is the typical range of the ability of human ears 643 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: to perceive sound in frequencies? My understanding is twenty hurts 644 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: on the low end to like the super low frequencies 645 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,399 Speaker 1: all the way up to about twenty killer hurts, which 646 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: would be twenty k when I'm thinking about it in 647 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: my editing brain. Got it awesome? Okay? Plus I love 648 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: the idea. Uh. I love the idea of this cricket talking. 649 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: For some reason, when you guys are describing this to me, uh, 650 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: it makes me think of the cricket as some insect 651 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: version of those screaming goats. Have you ever seen those 652 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: that they're like eerily human like in their bleats. I'll 653 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: send it to you, um, I'll send it to you 654 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: over the weekend, because I don't think you want to 655 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: hear it on a school night, and just just for 656 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: a little friends, for like your own personal hearing. The 657 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: human voice a male voice covers a fundamental frequency range 658 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 1: of between one hundred hurts and nine hundred hurts um. 659 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: And you know, once we get past the range of 660 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: human hearing, when we start getting into things like mega 661 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: hurts and and gigga hurts. Between three hunder mega hurts 662 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: and gigga hurts is considered microwaves UM. And above that, 663 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: between three hundredig hurts and four hundred terror hurts that's infrared. 664 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: And then you start getting into the visible light spectrum. 665 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: So all of these things are related. So the we're 666 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 1: talking about two point five to four gigga hurts with 667 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: this Moscow signal, and that's definitely microwaves. That's definitely you're 668 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: not going to hear it necessarily, but you could be 669 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: affected by it theoretically. And I just last thing on 670 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: that seven seven uh killer hurts thing. I don't know about, 671 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 1: you know, but when I'm going going through and using 672 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: a d S er on somebody's voice, generally it's around 673 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: seven killer hurts, which might make you like understand why 674 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: that cricket sound is so jarring and so like irritating, 675 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 1: because that's the thing that many audio professionals remove from 676 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,439 Speaker 1: speaking voices just because it's kind of a it can be. 677 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: It's the sibilants it's sometimes the the hard ask that 678 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 1: you hear. They take like that's the thing that's just 679 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,919 Speaker 1: coming at you from several hundred thousand crickets or whatever. Yeah, 680 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: and and I felt a disturbance in the sound, as 681 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 1: though a million crickets cried out at once. Uh So, 682 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: later the US government will conclude that the Moscow signal 683 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: is likely an attempted espionage and in this conclusion, they 684 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: also determined that there were no ill health effects on 685 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: their staff as a result. Forty years after the fact, 686 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,479 Speaker 1: this would be disputed, which is important. You can find 687 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,040 Speaker 1: a report on this called the Moscow Signal Epidemiological a 688 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: forty years on by jose A. Martinez from Reviews on 689 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: Environmental Health. So people are still debating that one decades later. 690 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,320 Speaker 1: Here's the big problem we mentioned already with the microwave proposal. 691 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: No one's found the weapon. No one's literally no one 692 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: has found the microwave. If these are purposeful attacks, I 693 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: would say it's also interesting that no one has determined 694 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 1: a solid motive. Would you blast people's brains just to 695 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 1: like troll them. There's no there's no indication that this 696 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: was pushing them to perform certain tasks. But yeah, but 697 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: still the inescapable fact is that the Moscow signal was 698 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: a real thing, and this plays a big role in 699 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: the minds of people who argue that there are current 700 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: microwave attacks. But I have to say I have to 701 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,240 Speaker 1: slightly disagree, just slightly disagree. I think there's clear motive 702 00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: with the Moscow signal, which was signals intellig on the 703 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,479 Speaker 1: behalf of you know, an opposition force the United States. 704 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: In this case it was likely Moscow or it was 705 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: like likely the Russian government, and they were they were 706 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: blasting microwaves at uh the embassy locations, at diplomatic locations 707 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: in order to gain intel by using devices theoretically inside 708 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: that building. We know for sure there was one and 709 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,719 Speaker 1: several others the typewriters that were discovered, and there's we 710 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 1: know that for sure. Like you can go head on 711 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 1: over to I think it's the American Foreign Service Association website. 712 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: Then you posted a link there. The title is today 713 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,839 Speaker 1: Savanna syndrome is like deja vu all over again, as 714 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: Yogi Berra might have put it by James Shoemaker. Yeah, 715 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the Moscow signal didn't have a motive. 716 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: I think that's very clear. I But then I think, like, 717 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm pretty convinced by some of the 718 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 1: writing in that particular article and a couple others I've 719 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 1: been reading that if if this is in fact an 720 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: actual physical thing where microwaves are bombarding these locations now 721 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 1: in twenties you know sixteen too, that it's the same deal. 722 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: It's a side effect of signals intelligence gathering by some opposition. 723 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: I mean, to me, that makes the most sense, that 724 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: this is like a side effect of those lasery things 725 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: that they're shooting in to capture phone calls, uh and 726 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: and intel of other kinds. That's the thing that makes 727 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: the most sense to me. It just doesn't seem like 728 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: the thing in and of itself is focused enough or 729 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: has enough of a predictable outcome other than just sewing 730 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,279 Speaker 1: what seeds of discord within the government, like you know 731 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like it's it's definitely becoming a bit 732 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: of a pr nightmare. But that's not enough to to 733 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: be a motive. And it took a long time for 734 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 1: it to even come out. Okay, yeah, you know you 735 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: inspired me here. I've got a new conspiracy theory on this. 736 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: What if it's big ibew proofing, right, like they're giving 737 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: these incredibly important people a lot of headaches his cell No, No, 738 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: well yeah, I mean look according to I hear, you've 739 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: been according to the author, uh two D and fifty 740 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: it's crazy. Be careful. Um. But the one of the 741 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,400 Speaker 1: side effects, allegedly, at least according to some of the writing, 742 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: I can't prove this of the Moscow signal was leukemia, 743 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: and you know, or theoretically was leukemia. At least it 744 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: showed up in many people who were affected by the 745 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,239 Speaker 1: Moscow signal, including the guy who wrote the article. So 746 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just yeah, that's the pickle here. 747 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: Lest we forget about another syndrome. Wasn't agent orange considered 748 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 1: a syndrome? I believe so you have for a time 749 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: because it was a collection again a combo meal of symptoms. 750 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Gulf War syndrome. It was. It was 751 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,439 Speaker 1: another syndrome. Obviously, agent orange is now something that people 752 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: collect disability for collecting known offense from from the v 753 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: A four, But for a long time that was buried 754 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: in the same way. And you gotta wonder, as new 755 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,240 Speaker 1: a story as this is, maybe this is totally our fault. 756 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,799 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, you know, that's an inescapable possibility. There's 757 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,880 Speaker 1: one more possibility that we we need to dive back into, 758 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,320 Speaker 1: and it's a It's something that I think the majority 759 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,000 Speaker 1: of opinions you read now will agree with. Doesn't make 760 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: it correct, but it is important. You do need to 761 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: know this. What if it is all a case of 762 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,839 Speaker 1: the made it up skis? Everybody involved here is human. 763 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,879 Speaker 1: They're inherently vulnerable to the usual human misconceptions and frailties. 764 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,239 Speaker 1: And that's why a growing majority of scientists and skeptics 765 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: have clapped back at those conclusions by Jamma and those 766 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: statements from you know, various politicians and military officials. You 767 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,200 Speaker 1: can find an example of this reasoning, this argument that 768 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: Havana syndrome is a result of psychogenic phenomena in a 769 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: book that is published in March of March of last 770 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: oh March of two years ago, Havana Syndrome, Mass Psychogenic 771 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 1: Illness and the Real Story behind the Embassy Mystery and Hysteria. UM. 772 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: This can be sound offensive to people. If we have 773 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: people who are in the audience today who know someone 774 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: who's been affected by this, this can sound like maybe 775 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: those authors are ignoring legitimate claims of people who have 776 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: been injured. This is not the case. Instead, the way 777 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 1: we put it is, there is a viable possibility that 778 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: people were already experiencing various symptoms for any number of 779 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:46,960 Speaker 1: unrelated reasons, and upon communicating with people with their colleagues, 780 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: their peers, other folks in the area, they heard a 781 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,879 Speaker 1: phrase that could explain what they were experiencing. They were able, 782 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 1: they had a name to hang their experience upon, havan 783 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,719 Speaker 1: a syndrome. You know, you thought you just had some headaches, 784 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 1: You thought you just maybe we're getting to nitis, and 785 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: then someone said, I have a headache too. It's not 786 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,279 Speaker 1: just a headache. It's Havannah syndrome. And then you have 787 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,240 Speaker 1: that light bulb Eureka moment and you say, oh, that's 788 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,239 Speaker 1: what's happening to me. It is not random, It is 789 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: not damage from you know, playing symbols too loudly or 790 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,280 Speaker 1: too often. It is Havana syndrome, and we are under attack. 791 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,440 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what's happening, but psychologically there is 792 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,839 Speaker 1: a viable possibility. Again, especially when you look at how 793 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: um if you look at the spread of the symptoms 794 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 1: for this syndrome, you know what I mean, A lot 795 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,160 Speaker 1: of them are could be caused by other events. And 796 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 1: then also a lot of them are tough to verify 797 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: unless you have doctors in the room at the time 798 00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,879 Speaker 1: doing like brain scans and so on. Even then, I mean, 799 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, I just had a health scare with my mom, 800 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,239 Speaker 1: you know where um, we genuinely thought she had a stroke, uh, 801 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,359 Speaker 1: and we had her in the hospital and they did 802 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,480 Speaker 1: a CT scan on her and they found something that 803 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,160 Speaker 1: indicated that we were likely right that she had a stroke. 804 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,360 Speaker 1: But then they did another scan on her that was 805 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,879 Speaker 1: totally clean. And any fans of the show Succession will 806 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,600 Speaker 1: probably remember the episode where Logan Roy, the main character, 807 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 1: one of the main characters UM, appears to be demonstrating 808 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: stroke like symptoms and then it just turns out he 809 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,160 Speaker 1: had a really bad urinary tract infection, which is a 810 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,680 Speaker 1: thing that can present those kind of symptoms and older people. UM. 811 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,160 Speaker 1: So it's just there's so many factors that can go 812 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: into these kinds of things, and and it's impossible to 813 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,360 Speaker 1: uh even like the pain scale that we used to 814 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,439 Speaker 1: measure um people's pain. As we know, if anyone watched 815 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,239 Speaker 1: that show Dope Sick or it was followed, you know, 816 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,839 Speaker 1: the whole uh Sackler family debacle. We know that that 817 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,759 Speaker 1: was largely invented by pharmaceutical companies, the idea of like, 818 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,840 Speaker 1: how can you describe your pain on a scale of 819 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: like one to to ten or whatever. Uh, it's all 820 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,759 Speaker 1: very subjective. And I was just going to mention when 821 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,319 Speaker 1: you mentioned the made it up skis, like, couldn't you 822 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:10,800 Speaker 1: argue that the initial impetus for some, not all psychogenic 823 00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,440 Speaker 1: events is a single or a couple of cases of 824 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,680 Speaker 1: the made it up skis that are so convincing that 825 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,560 Speaker 1: people just hop on board and believe the hype. Quite possibly, 826 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a it could be a 827 00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:32,719 Speaker 1: case of retroactive explanation, irrationalization. One looks back upon what 828 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: they've experienced and now has a new frame of reference 829 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,399 Speaker 1: through which to view it. Again, this is not this 830 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:43,759 Speaker 1: is not us saying that it isn't happening. And we 831 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:49,799 Speaker 1: want to uh first and foremost, we want to be 832 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:54,520 Speaker 1: respectful to the people who have experienced these conditions. Uh. 833 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,280 Speaker 1: And you know this is the opinion of our show, 834 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:03,360 Speaker 1: but it's also echoed on a macro stage on a 835 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,799 Speaker 1: much larger stage. The debate over what actually went down 836 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,200 Speaker 1: continues today. UH. Congress and the White House under the 837 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,560 Speaker 1: Biden administration have also recently passed a bill that set 838 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:20,080 Speaker 1: aside funding to assist victims of this syndrome, whatever it 839 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,879 Speaker 1: turns out to be. Uh. And then also the scientists 840 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,200 Speaker 1: are still clapping back and forth at each other. Man. 841 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:32,279 Speaker 1: There's an often ignored report from the Jason's on the 842 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,040 Speaker 1: possibility of a psychogenic illness being at play. There's a 843 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,920 Speaker 1: redacted version of this. It's out now. You can read 844 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,400 Speaker 1: it online. But essentially they and several other scientists don't 845 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:48,360 Speaker 1: agree with those two studies from ten and twenty nineteen, 846 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,920 Speaker 1: and they questioned the methodology. But I what are you 847 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:58,880 Speaker 1: to oh man, We mentioned that Jason's previously right. Yeah, 848 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,279 Speaker 1: we did a strange news or listener male episode about it. 849 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what they're hiding. There's some really good 850 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:11,360 Speaker 1: sexy heads of hair is Oh you got a picture 851 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,399 Speaker 1: of them? You know, I just picture them all as 852 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 1: being very good looking boys named Jason. So for anybody 853 00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,320 Speaker 1: who doesn't know uh, and maybe this is a lighter 854 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,000 Speaker 1: place for us to to end today's show. For anybody 855 00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:34,440 Speaker 1: who isn't aware the Jason's Technically, Jason is a independent 856 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,240 Speaker 1: group of top notch scientists. They formed because the US 857 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:44,360 Speaker 1: freaked out when the Soviet Union launched spot Nick and 858 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,920 Speaker 1: they said, okay, no, no, no, we can't do this. 859 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:53,000 Speaker 1: And uh. In my favorite like fictional Tarantino Wes Anderson 860 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,680 Speaker 1: version of the story, there's a very um off the 861 00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:01,640 Speaker 1: wall presidential meeting and some and says we've got a 862 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:06,200 Speaker 1: round up everybody named Jason. And someone's like, uh, Mr President, 863 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,840 Speaker 1: don't you think that's a bit extreme, And he goes, yeah, no, 864 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:14,640 Speaker 1: good point. Just the scientist, just the scientist named Jason. Uh. 865 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,879 Speaker 1: But but it's it is a real thing, and they 866 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,319 Speaker 1: continue today. Was established nineteen sixty. No one's quite sure 867 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 1: how many members they are. They are not all named Jason. UM. 868 00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:36,919 Speaker 1: I'm just imagining Brian Cox going Jason chair. So so 869 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:42,880 Speaker 1: shout up, so shout out to the Jason's UM, a 870 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:48,080 Speaker 1: group that still is conducting both classified and declassified research. 871 00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,760 Speaker 1: It's important stuff. Uh. And if we're if we're roasting 872 00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,760 Speaker 1: you a little bit about the name, that's just because 873 00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:59,280 Speaker 1: it's cool. But whatever the case may be. With quote unquote, 874 00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,160 Speaker 1: havanis and him, which again is an unfair term in 875 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:07,040 Speaker 1: my opinion. The investigation continues as we record, and this 876 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 1: is where you come in, fellow conspiracy realist, we would 877 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,920 Speaker 1: like to hear from you. What do you think about this? 878 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,880 Speaker 1: We've outlined the major possibilities. We were able to eliminate 879 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:22,080 Speaker 1: one um, we found one villain a Caribbean species of cricket. 880 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,879 Speaker 1: But now we now we passed the the microwave to you, 881 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,680 Speaker 1: is this is this possible? I don't know, Like I 882 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 1: think all three of us are kind of this on 883 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,440 Speaker 1: the same page here, because outside of the sonic weapon 884 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:43,960 Speaker 1: being relatively debunked, the other explanations all have a couple 885 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,680 Speaker 1: of sticky things about them, things that I think still 886 00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,080 Speaker 1: prevent us from dismissing them entirely. I don't know, what 887 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,480 Speaker 1: do you guys? Yeah, well, look for my money, it's 888 00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,520 Speaker 1: Moscow Signal two point Oh, that's what it is. Uh, 889 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,320 Speaker 1: it's I don't think you know, in my opinion that 890 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who's I'm some guy in Georgia, But 891 00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,359 Speaker 1: in my opinion, it was just it was tradecraft and 892 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,920 Speaker 1: it's a technology used with that. It's not a weapon, 893 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:15,640 Speaker 1: it's it's a byproduct of that technology being in use. 894 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: I tend to lead in the same direction because I 895 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,080 Speaker 1: do not feel like the ends justified the means if 896 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,440 Speaker 1: in fact this technology exists and they are targeting you know, uh, 897 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:32,080 Speaker 1: US diplomats in Cube in Cuba, like to what end? Ay, 898 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,320 Speaker 1: we don't have an answer to that, and be could 899 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,840 Speaker 1: you do a little bit better job, like have introduced 900 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 1: a little mind control into the equation, you know, something, 901 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,600 Speaker 1: make them do a thing. That's I was thinking about 902 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,080 Speaker 1: that too, and and again now not and I'm not 903 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,360 Speaker 1: I'm not being a jerk here. Um. I I do 904 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,800 Speaker 1: think maybe there are This is the kind of thing 905 00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 1: where maybe we only see some symptoms and maybe there 906 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,080 Speaker 1: is there are there are future symptoms that could be 907 00:57:55,680 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: the real thing that actually is the desired and ole 908 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,440 Speaker 1: of something like this. Um, it just happens that the 909 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,800 Speaker 1: hand was tipped by you know, these early um symptoms. 910 00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,400 Speaker 1: Maybe there is something more nefarious at play, like a man. 911 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,600 Speaker 1: I mean again, we don't have any evidence of that 912 00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,920 Speaker 1: ever actually having successfully taken place throughout the course of 913 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,880 Speaker 1: human history. I mean we've got like sir hand, sir 914 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 1: hand and that kind of stuff, but like it usually 915 00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,320 Speaker 1: involves some level of mental illness um on the part 916 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,720 Speaker 1: of the individual making the claims. Um, But who knows. 917 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,120 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe there is a deeper layer to this, 918 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,400 Speaker 1: and now that it's making the news, perhaps whatever party 919 00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:35,919 Speaker 1: was at play doing that has abandoned it and they're 920 00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,840 Speaker 1: they're they're taking this underground again, you know, and maybe 921 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,280 Speaker 1: they're gonna tweak the their technology so that it doesn't 922 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,040 Speaker 1: give the game away so quickly. Again, total blue sky 923 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:51,000 Speaker 1: sci fi kind of conjecture there, so what so yeah, 924 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,360 Speaker 1: let us know what you think, folks. What is this 925 00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:58,720 Speaker 1: conspiracy of crickets? Um? Is Moscow's signal a better name 926 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: for an album? Or is it a better name for bands? Uh? 927 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 1: These and other very important questions we'd love to hear 928 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,560 Speaker 1: from you. We try to be easy to find online. 929 00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,640 Speaker 1: That's right. You can find us on the Internet in 930 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:14,000 Speaker 1: the usual places of note, Facebook, Twitter, you Tuo. I 931 00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,640 Speaker 1: like to really double pronounce that double T and Twitter. 932 00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:18,760 Speaker 1: I think it really gives it a nice, a nice 933 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,000 Speaker 1: ear feel. Um. You can find us on those platforms 934 00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 1: under the handle at conspiracy stuff. If you want to 935 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,200 Speaker 1: go to Instagram, you can find us at conspiracy stuff Show. 936 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,840 Speaker 1: There are other non Internet e ways to get in 937 00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,120 Speaker 1: touch with us as well. Yes, you can give us 938 00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,560 Speaker 1: a phone call. Our number is one eight three three 939 00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,480 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. When you call in, 940 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,240 Speaker 1: give yourself a cool nickname. You've got three minutes. Say 941 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,800 Speaker 1: whatever you'd like. We'd love it. If you're silly like 942 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,560 Speaker 1: Optimus Prime. Uh, thank you again for sending in your 943 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:56,400 Speaker 1: message and telling us all about Omicron H. Thank you Optimus, 944 00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,840 Speaker 1: as well as thank you everybody else who's been calling 945 00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,600 Speaker 1: in U we have to. We have two voicemails in 946 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,560 Speaker 1: our inbox right now, guys too, and it's just because 947 01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,400 Speaker 1: they came in while we were recording. Uh. So I'm 948 01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,280 Speaker 1: really excited about that state. We're gonna do everything we 949 01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,640 Speaker 1: can to keep on that track. So again, our number 950 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,200 Speaker 1: one three st d w y t K. If you 951 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,080 Speaker 1: don't want to jump on the phone and you still 952 01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,280 Speaker 1: want to send us some information, links, files, whatever you've got, 953 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: please shoot us an email. We are conspiracy at iHeart 954 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:49,280 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know. 955 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,520 Speaker 1: Is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 956 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,760 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 957 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.