1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: I mean legitimate. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 3: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 3: it will be different. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 3: on him. Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 3: done nothing. Anything he does is fascinating. 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 4: People. Welcome the elan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 4: It's Tuesday, May seven. I'm your host, David Popadopolis. Today, 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 4: well into a mystery what happened to Tesla's one so 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 4: lofty supercharging plans and what does it mean for the 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 4: rest of America's auto industry. And then we're going to 17 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 4: get into the next stage of Elon's free speech plan 18 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 4: for x reinstating Nick Fuentes, a white supremacist who's been 19 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 4: banned from basically every social media platform. To go over 20 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 4: all of this and then some we're joined by our 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 4: usual superstar panel, Elon reporter Danahull. Hello, Dana Good, Afternoon 22 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 4: and BusinessWeek Senior writer and editor Max Chafkin. Hey, David, Okay, 23 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 4: So to be clear here, I know I said it's Tuesday, 24 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 4: May seventh, but we're actually recording this a day earlier 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 4: than normal on Monday. Because this is a special week 26 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 4: for us. Elon Inc. Is hitting the road. We'll be 27 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 4: hosting a live taping on Thursday at the Bloomberg Tech 28 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 4: Summit in San Francisco. Join us there. Links will be 29 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 4: in the show, notesh. Well, let's get this started and 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 4: talk about how Elon has done away with most or 31 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 4: all of the Supercharger team. We touched briefly on this 32 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 4: last week, but the details keep coming out. 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. So Elon Musk is reorganizing Tesla and kind of 34 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: really reshaping the company to focus more on AI and autonomy, 35 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: and as part of the layoffs that he has been 36 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: doing for several weeks now, he completely disbanded the Supercharging 37 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: team that reported up to Rebecca Tanucci, who is one 38 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: of the top female executives at the company. Tesla watchers 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: will remember that she was one of the speakers at 40 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: the investor day last year, and it was really surprising 41 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: because Supercharging it's like this awesome product. I mean, I 42 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: think I've even called it Tesla's shrewdest product. And it 43 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: kind of comes at a time when all these other 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: automakers like Ford and Rivian and GM had like signed 45 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: on to adopt the Tesla charging network as their own, 46 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: and all of this injured raation work was underway before 47 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: the summer driving season, so a lot of it is 48 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: very puzzling. If you believe in the idea that EV 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: adoption is slowing and that sales are slowing, it makes 50 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: sense to kind of throttle back your expansion plans. But 51 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: it does not make sense to fire all five hundred 52 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: people who worked on that team, because now who does 53 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 1: GM call who? Like, all the people that were facilitating 54 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: these partnerships with other automakers are now gone. 55 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 4: So then you know, the Tesla charging network is indeed 56 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 4: very different than the charging networks that these other EV 57 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 4: makers have they refer to as super charging stations. What 58 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 4: makes exactly their stations different and better than those controlled 59 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 4: by their rivals? 60 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: So I think the thing to really think about is 61 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: Tesla doesn't just make cars. They really own the fueling 62 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: infrastructure that is important for electric vehicle adoption, and they 63 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: very early On knew that the key to getting people 64 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: to drive electric vehicles was to make charging easy and seamless, 65 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: and over a decade ago they started building their own stations, 66 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: and Elon Musk called them superchargers. And at first there 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: were like six of them in California, and so you 68 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: could drive from San Francisco to La or San Francisco 69 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: to like Tahoe. Now they are all over the world. 70 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: They are in China, they are all over the United States, 71 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: they are all over Europe, and they are really easy 72 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: to use, and they are often located off of highways 73 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: near a place where you can stop and go get 74 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. I mean, the one in Kettleman City, 75 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: which is on the way to La is like this 76 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: amazing spot. It's open twenty four hours. There's coffee there, 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: you can get a latte, you can buy Tesla merchandise. 78 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: And the supercharging network has always been seen as Tesla's 79 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: value add because Tesla is not just selling you a car, 80 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: they also are basically owning and creating this fueling infrastructure. 81 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: But now what's happened is that Musk is trying to 82 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: cut twenty percent of his staff, and he cut this 83 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: entire team, and you know, the superchargers still exists, but 84 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: there are just a lot of questions as to who's 85 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: going to maintain them, and like what his whole strategy 86 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: here is. My understanding is that the business unit was 87 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: close to being profitable. But maybe if you're reconfiguring your 88 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: whole company to be about autonomy and the RBOTAXI, maybe 89 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: you don't need to build as many as you had 90 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: originally planned. 91 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so if the business was close to being profitable, 92 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 4: max I would have to have imagined that this is 93 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 4: the kind of thing you have a dominant position in 94 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 4: that space, in the charging space, and for years, as 95 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 4: more and more automakers go into evs, like this could 96 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 4: have been a thing that just threw off cash for 97 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 4: decades to come. 98 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: Now you would think, I mean building these superchargers and 99 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: on a big scale and expanding the number that they 100 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 2: have currently. That's also capitally intensive, and clearly like Elon 101 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: Musk has as other areas where he wants to spend 102 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: that money. He wants to spend that money buying you 103 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: know Nvidia, you know H one hundred's these like GPU 104 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: chips to train these AI models, AI models For what 105 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 2: I mean assumably for the Robotaxi, right, I should say 106 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: the aspirational Robotaxi, because there is no Robotaxi yet, you know, 107 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 2: is going to use enormous resources. And Elon Musk, as 108 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: Dana saying, has been trying to reorient the company towards 109 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: that Tesla before when they were trying to come up 110 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: with this twenty five thousand dollars car or moving more 111 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: aggressively to other models, Elon must really seemed to be 112 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: betting on a lot more scale, right, like more superchargers, 113 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: lots of cars, And it really does seem like over 114 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: the last few months he's changed his thinking there right 115 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: where the company is not trying to drastically increase the 116 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: number of evs out there in the short term, it's 117 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: it wants to essentially, you know, get rid of the 118 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: conventional car altogether. It's extremely you know, it's a bold bet, 119 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: and it also seems like, like you said, like maybe 120 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: it's a foolhardy decision to throw away or or put 121 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: the brakes on what has been a really good part 122 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: of the company. 123 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 4: But to get rid of the conventional car altogether. Do 124 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 4: you still not need more charging stations or is the idea, 125 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 4: Dana that I guess, if just a handful of robo 126 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 4: taxis are driving us all around, we need a limited 127 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 4: number of cars. 128 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: So I think you have to really look at sales 129 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: and ed adoption. And you know, Tesla had a terrible 130 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: first quarter. They had like forty six thousand more cars 131 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: in inventory than they could sell, and so you don't 132 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: need to keep building new superchargers if your sales are slowing. 133 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: And Tesla has a lot of superchargers. As of the 134 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: end of the first quarter, they had over six thousand 135 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: supercharging stations and more than fifty seven thousand connectors worldwide, 136 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: so you don't really need to build more. And what 137 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: Musk said was, you know, we're going to We're going 138 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: to focus instead on optimizing our existing stations. That's all fine, 139 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: that makes sense to me. What does it makes sense 140 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: is firing all the people who were overseeing relationships with 141 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: other automotive partners, like for GM and Rivian, Because the 142 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: whole idea was that, you know, Tesla's network is the 143 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: dominant network in the United States, and like Tesla got 144 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: all of this money from the Biden administration through this 145 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: program called the Nevy program, where under the Inflation Reduction Act. 146 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: If you opened up the network to other automakers, you 147 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: got federal funding. And so you know, Musk has never 148 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: been one to kind of turn down the spigot of funding. 149 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: So all of these nevy projects that were supposed to 150 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: be built using federal funds, I don't know where that stands, 151 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: And frankly, I don't think anyone else does either, because 152 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: all the people that oversaw the contracts are now gone. 153 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, and Max, That's one of the things that jumps 154 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 4: out at me a little bit here is when you're 155 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 4: a small startup or a startup of any sort, like 156 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 4: Kessel was for a while, you know, you can blow 157 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 4: stuff up all the time and shut down departments and 158 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 4: start other things, and you know that the broader ripples 159 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 4: across the account of me and across the broader industry 160 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 4: are small. I wonder if right now it's almost a 161 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 4: little bit like Tesla and Elon aren't realizing their own 162 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 4: strength and might and power in this space. Is that 163 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 4: they don't realize their strength or might or power. Are 164 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 4: they just simply don't care? 165 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: I mean, it's very hard to disentangle like Elon Musk's 166 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 2: strategy in terms of like the business strategy of the 167 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: business case for slowing down superchargers or firing the team, 168 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 2: and then the management style, which is to these like 169 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: grand gestures in which you know, you fire entire teams 170 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: to prove a point. And my guess is it's it's 171 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: probably a little bit of both, right, Like, there's been 172 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: some reporting suggesting that the person who's running that team 173 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: was hesitant to like cuts as deeply as Elon Musk wants. 174 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: Elon Musk is trying to make this point that the 175 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 2: company has to be extremely hardcore. I suppose what. 176 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 4: Better way to show that then to just set that 177 00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 4: person in the entire team. 178 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: Seems it seems crazy from the outside, and I'm sure 179 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: if you're sitting, you know, in Detroit and you've been 180 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: counting on these superchargers, it seems crazy as well. It 181 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: does conceivably, I think, hurt other EV makers to have 182 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: Tesla slow this down, because of course, this Tesla supercharger 183 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: network was going to be an asset to the entire industry, 184 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: and people who are buying a Hondai or a Kia 185 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: or a Ford or whatever, we're also going to benefit 186 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: from these networks. You could see a situation where Elon 187 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: Musk feels like, do I really want to be paying 188 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 2: to build this massive infrastructure that is going to also 189 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: be used by my competitors. Maybe I have this sort 190 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: of modestly profitable thing, but like it doesn't serve the 191 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: big goal, which is to be worth you know, to 192 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 2: trillions of dollars and do all the crazy ambitious stuff 193 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: that he wants to do. 194 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: Did they not hire anyone back? I thought they were 195 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 4: hiring people back or no. 196 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: There's rumors that they could hire people back. I mean, 197 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: Elon Musk has changed his mind before. I'm reminded of 198 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: like in twenty nineteen, he like announced that they were 199 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: closed all the stores, and then once he realized like, oh, 200 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: actually we have like long term leases with all of 201 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: these shopping malls, he like kind of did in about face, 202 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: and they like they like recance it. So I mean, 203 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to hire some 204 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: people back. And I mean, to be clear, you know, 205 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: there are still people that are going to like service 206 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: the existing superchargers. 207 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 5: You know. 208 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 4: I recently Max was trying to drive from Miami South 209 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 4: to Key West. My wife and I we were trying 210 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 4: to rent to Tesla Avis had no Teslas for us. 211 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 4: They gave us another EV, some fancy pants Mercedes EV. 212 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 4: We said, okay, fine, it was not fully charged. When 213 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 4: they gave it to us, Dan, we said, fine, I 214 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 4: had forty seven miles. Like whatever, we'll find a charging station. 215 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 4: We went by a zillion Tesla charging stations we had 216 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 4: no access to, and then very quickly found ourselves down 217 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 4: to just a handful of miles left. And at that 218 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 4: point we got to this charging station, there was nowhere 219 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 4: else to go. We wound up waiting in a Walmart 220 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 4: parking lot across by the way the road from a 221 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 4: Murphy USA gas station where cars were just zipping in, 222 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 4: filling up, zipping out. It took us four hours to charge. Wow, 223 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 4: that sounds like a great It was awesome. It was awesome. 224 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 4: And the thing that jumped out at me, though Dana, 225 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 4: was it wasn't just idiot tourists like us stuck in 226 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 4: this position. And I do emphasize idiot tourists. They were 227 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 4: also queuing up in the line behind us, waiting a 228 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 4: half an hour, an hour, getting frustrated and driving off. 229 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:40,479 Speaker 4: There were also actual EV owners of Hyundai's and volkswagons. 230 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: Well, right, And that's why Tesla has had such an 231 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: incredible advantage because the superchargers work, and like, if you 232 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: have the Tesla app on your phone, you can see 233 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: where the nearest supercharger is and how many stalls are open, 234 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: and like you get like very real data on like 235 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: what your charging time is, and like whenever I've rented 236 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: a Tesla, I've used the superchargers, I've never had like 237 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: one problem with them. So that's why, like Tesla had 238 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: such an advantage, and they really built like the best 239 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: team in the industry, Like all of these people are 240 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: like top flight talent. So now the market is flooded 241 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: with like five hundred people and every other charging network 242 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: is going to try to stap them up and learn 243 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: from their expertise. But that's what's so amazing. No one 244 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: was able to replicate what Tesla did. And Tesla also 245 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: has all this data about like where you charge, which 246 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: ones are the most used, Like they have just a 247 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: ton of information about electricity pricing and real time pricing 248 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 1: and how much the average person charges. So I think 249 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: the fact that Tesla is really throttling back what was 250 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: this clear advantage at this pivotal time when EV adoption 251 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: has very much slowed. It's like cause ripple effects throughout 252 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: the entire industry. And if you go on LinkedIn, oh 253 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: my god, there's like this uproar. Like everyone in the 254 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: charging business is like trying to figure out what's. 255 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 4: Going on, right, and they don't exactly know. But as 256 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 4: far as we understand the deal that willow them and 257 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 4: their cars to charge at these Tesla supercharging stations, it 258 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 4: is not dead, correct, It is not dead. 259 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: I mean I have not heard of any automakers backing 260 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: out of the deal. I just think that how the 261 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: onboarding and the integration and the billing all works is 262 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: just up in the air because all of the people 263 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: who oversaw those details are now gone. 264 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: And it just feels like one of the ways in 265 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: which these companies have not quite figured out how people 266 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: are going to use evs and and how they're going 267 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: to convince the kind of person who's watching, like you said, 268 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: watching this giant line at a charging station on one 269 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: side of the street and a gas station where dozens 270 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: of cars amazing, it was amazing. It seems like it's 271 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: just not totally figured out yet. And that and that's 272 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: a good reason if you're Elon Musk and you're you're 273 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 2: worried about your spending, and you think that there's this 274 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: amazing target called you know, AI that you should be 275 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: aiming for. You could sort of understand why you would 276 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: want to try to cut back. 277 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 4: The other person I want to quote here, while I 278 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 4: waited in line forever at the charging station, was somebody, 279 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 4: after they had finally finished charging and was clearly exhausted 280 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 4: by the experience, has turned to me and said, is 281 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 4: America ready for this? I think the answer, at least 282 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 4: right now is looking like no. Okay, We're now going 283 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 4: to talk about X and Elon's reinstatement of Nick Fuentes. 284 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 4: And to help us do that, we've got Kurt Wagner, 285 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 4: who covers X for us here at Bloomberg and is 286 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 4: the author of the book The Battle for the Bird 287 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 4: about Elon's takeover of Twitter. 288 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: Welcome, Kurt, thank you for having me. 289 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 4: Okay, So, Kurt, I think it was on Friday Elon 290 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 4: has reinstated. He made the decision to reinstate Nick Fuentes. 291 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 4: Tell us to get this started, who exactly is Nickquente's. 292 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, Nick Fuentes is I believe about twenty five years old. 293 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 5: He's labeled a white supremacist, anti Semite. He's basically a 294 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 5: far right sort of media personality. He's got his own 295 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 5: talk show and he has a conference, and he shows 296 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 5: up sort of in the far right circles of you know, 297 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 5: folks who support basically Donald Trump, and then sort of 298 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 5: came to light during Donald Trump's presidency, and so a 299 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 5: few years ago he was banned from what was then 300 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 5: Twitter permanently. 301 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 4: This is by the previous the pre Musk team. 302 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 5: That's right, this is you know, Twitter one point zero, 303 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 5: if you want to call that, and had still been 304 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 5: banned on what is now x up until obviously just 305 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 5: a couple of days ago, even though Elon has brought 306 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 5: back several other people, but he is now back. He 307 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 5: went on a Twitter spaces over the weekend with it 308 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 5: was quite the crew. I believe Alex Jones was there, 309 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 5: Andrew Tait was there, Mario knopfol who's sort of like 310 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 5: a you know, Elon I don't know fan, I guess, and. 311 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 4: He's like the Larry King of this word. 312 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 3: Yeahs of journalist. 313 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 5: I just check him before he hopped on. I believe 314 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 5: that it's up to one point eight million viewers. Or 315 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 5: listens for that spaces. So this crew, many of whom 316 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 5: were suspended or banned on X until you know, Elon 317 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 5: took over, now has quite the quite the audience. 318 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 4: That's one of the things I was going to ask you, Kurt, So, 319 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 4: how many exactly controversial people has Elon reinstated since taking 320 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 4: the company over a couple of years ago. 321 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't have the full number, but I did 322 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 5: jot down a few examples because it's an interesting list. 323 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 5: There's the obvious, you know, President Trump, right is the 324 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 5: most high profile. 325 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 4: Well, President Trump, ex President Trump. He has been reinstated, 326 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 4: but he has turned X down right, he has not 327 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 4: come back. 328 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 5: Actually, yeah, I believe he's only posted one time. He 329 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 5: posted his mug shot you may remember, and used it 330 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 5: to try and thunderraise. So president, you know, ex President 331 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 5: Trump is the most high profile. But Nick Fuentes is 332 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 5: one we were talking about. Alex Jones is obviously a 333 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 5: very you know, notorious far right personality that's been brought back. 334 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 5: Andrew Tait is another. There was a guy Ali Alexander 335 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 5: who you know, helped organize the Stop the Steal campaign. 336 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 5: He was brought back and I think he was actually 337 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 5: re suspended. I think Fuentes might have been as well. 338 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 5: I think he and Ali Alexander were brought back in 339 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 5: the very early days of Elon's takeover and then almost 340 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 5: immediately suspended again, and now Fuentes is now getting to 341 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 5: come back again for a second time under Elon. 342 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 4: So Max, what were you said, Where does FA's rank 343 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 4: in terms of extreme on the extremists scale among those rehabilitated, 344 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 4: He's pretty far. 345 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: On the far end of the extreme scale. You know, 346 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 2: after the election of President Trump, you had a lot 347 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 2: of the kind of quote unquote remember that the term 348 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 2: alt right. Those were the kind of online supporters of 349 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: Trump and Trump is a lot of them kind of 350 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 2: backed away from the movement or were banned or faded away, 351 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 2: or sort of embraced the fact that they were in power, 352 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: and you had this kind of new wave of even 353 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: further right personalities, of which Pointe is probably like the 354 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: most prominent example. The main target of his ire, besides 355 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: you know, blacks and Jews and minorities of any kind 356 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 2: and gay people, is the Republican Party and the right right. 357 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 2: It's like going after the mainstream for not being you know, 358 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,239 Speaker 2: pro American, pro white whatever. Enough and you know, we 359 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 2: talked about this, and others have talked about this. One 360 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: of the difficulties of operating social network is like where 361 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: do you draw the line? And even if you're a 362 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 2: free speech absolutist, there are going to be part kinds 363 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 2: of speech that are going to kind of mess up 364 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: your network. And Musk two has kind of struggled with this. 365 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 4: He banned them, he unbanned him, and I guess Kurt 366 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 4: to a certain extent in his post rehabilitating him again, 367 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 4: you know, he kind of tries to sort of caveat 368 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 4: it a bit. The post said very well, he nick flant, 369 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 4: this will be reinstated provided he does not violate the 370 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 4: law and let him be crushed by the comments and 371 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 4: community notes. 372 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, this sort of aligns with what Elon has said 373 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 5: in a few different situations. You know, sunlight is the 374 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 5: best disinfectant kind of thing, right, And his point here 375 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 5: is like, instead of letting these terrible viewpoints kind of 376 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 5: fester away hidden, let's let them out in the open 377 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 5: and everyone can see how terrible they are. 378 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 4: And is that working? 379 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 5: Kurt Wagner, I don't think that's sort of ever worked, right, 380 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 5: especially the way social media works. The people who have 381 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 5: the most extreme viewpoints often find their communities, and people 382 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 5: get empowered by that, they get radicalized by that, they 383 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 5: get excited about it. And the fact that this space 384 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 5: yesterday with that crew I mentioned, got one point eight 385 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 5: million viewers sort of tells the story, right. 386 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: It's a big group of people in terms of numbers, 387 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 2: but as a percentage of the population and so on, 388 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 2: it's small. And like that's kind of the problem, is 389 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: that like this this belief system, the will you know, 390 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: white supremacy, or in the case of Alex Jones, it's 391 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: you know, conspiracy theorizing like it is not and never 392 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,719 Speaker 2: is going to be a mainstream anything. And so so 393 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 2: the more time Elon Musk spends it clearly seems like 394 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 2: this is taking up a huge part of his you know, 395 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: mind space. It almost looked looking at his X page, 396 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 2: it almost seemed like he was sort of badgered into 397 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: doing this, or you know, there were a lot of 398 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 2: replies from from Fuentes's you know, allies and so on, 399 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 2: suggesting that he do this. 400 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 3: It just it's like it's like he's he's off in a. 401 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: Corner that is he's going to making me, you know, 402 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: far right very happy, and meanwhile, like X itself continues 403 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 2: to sort of go sideways. Right, this is not going 404 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: to address any of the big problems that that X has. 405 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, Dan, to that point, there is a sort of 406 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 4: or seems to be something of a spur of the moment, 407 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 4: not necessarily super well thought out element to this decision, 408 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 4: a little bit of like, I guess this is the 409 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 4: way Elon always rolled at Tesla when he was tweeting there, Right, 410 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 4: it's not necessarily all been properly vetted and such. 411 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think Elon makes impulsive decisions, and 412 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: you know, the fanboys are like, oh, he's playing four 413 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: D chess or five D chess, and it's like, no, 414 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: he's just like, you know, he's just like whatever, He's 415 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: just impulsive. He's tweeting, he's on his plane, like he's 416 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: just following his gut. And I don't think that we 417 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: should read too much into it. I mean, I think 418 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: that fundamentally he wants X to be, you know, like 419 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: the water cooler, and and he wants engagement, and like, 420 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: you know, everyone who covers social media knows that like, 421 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: anger drives a lot of engagement. So even if you 422 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: think that Nick Fuentes is like a horrible person. You 423 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: still click on the tweets or read the tweets or 424 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: quote tweet the tweets to show how awful they are, 425 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: and that's still driving engagement. So I think that that's 426 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: a big that's a big part of it. I mean, 427 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: he is courting the right but also just really trying 428 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: to drive up his numbers. And Kurt, I don't even 429 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: know what metric he's using now. Is it like unregrettable 430 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: user minutes? Is it He's like making up all these 431 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: new metrics. 432 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 4: Whoah, well, what is that unregretted user minute? Oh and 433 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 4: so and vise a v regretted? Like what is that? 434 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 4: How does that work? 435 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 5: That's sort of the thing one no one really knows, 436 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 5: like what is an unregrettable user minute? It's not a 437 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 5: metric that I've ever heard, you know, I've covered social 438 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 5: networks for ten years, many that have failed along the way. 439 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 5: I've never heard that statistic before. But that's sort of 440 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 5: the idea, right, And I guess I would echo just 441 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 5: really quickly what Dana said about the impulsiveness. You know, 442 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 5: when when Elon first took over Twitter and book plug 443 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 5: here I cover this in the book, but like he 444 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 5: shows up and the battle for the Bird about the 445 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 5: Twitter takeover, and when he shows up, there were employees 446 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 5: who were really excited to work with like this visionary, right, 447 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,120 Speaker 5: this guy that they thought was going to, you know, 448 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 5: fix everything, and were shocked to find out how frequently 449 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 5: it seemed like he was just flying by the seat 450 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 5: of his pants and sort of making these decisions on 451 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 5: a whim. And so I think it's very possible that 452 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 5: the Fuentes reinstatement falls into that same bucket. 453 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 3: Not good for the business. 454 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 4: So obviously, if you're trying to lure back mainstream advertisers, 455 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 4: probably not so good. And CEO Linda Yakarino is probably 456 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 4: not loving that. But Kurt as Dana was just saying 457 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 4: he has the rehabilitation of Nick quent This has given 458 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 4: the thing, you know, a jolt of I think customer engagement. 459 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 4: I guess that Twitter spaces that x space has had. 460 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 4: You were saying like one point seven million people tuned in. 461 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 4: Is that not monetizable some way somehow, well. 462 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 5: Just monetizable, but not all traffic is created equal, right, 463 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 5: Like it's number one, who who are you reaching? And 464 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 5: number two? What is the I think Twitter's case, what 465 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 5: is the risk of reaching those people? 466 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 3: Right? 467 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 5: And so if you're an advertiser going to X, you 468 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 5: have to say, Okay, maybe there is an audience here. 469 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 3: That would be great to reach, but at what cost? Right? 470 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: The cost is that. 471 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 5: You're doing business with Elon who is openly, you know, 472 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 5: supporting in platforming a white supremacist or several white supremacists, right, 473 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 5: And so the trade off for a lot of brands, 474 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 5: I think is that, well, yeah, sure there are people 475 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 5: there we'd like to reach, but they're not worth reaching 476 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 5: if it means, you know, we have to associate with 477 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 5: what X has sort of become. And I think that 478 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 5: is the bigger issue, is that there's a lot of 479 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 5: discomfort around what Elon has become, what Elon is starting 480 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 5: to represent, and what they would sort of be labeling 481 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 5: themselves as as advertisers on that platform. 482 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: And this is not like news to anyone who follows 483 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 2: media industry, but you know, it's dangerous for advertisers in 484 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: two ways. One is that you know, someone sees a 485 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: ad for like Campbell soup next to a Nick Fuents, 486 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: you know, racist meme or something, and that's embarrassing to 487 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: the advertiser. The other is that advertisers, you know, care 488 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 2: a lot about who they're reaching, right, and they want 489 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: they want like C suite executives. They want people with influence, 490 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 2: with huge amounts of disposable income, with with long term 491 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 2: plans to spend that money. Nick Fuentas is a self 492 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: described in cell he is you know, I mean like 493 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 2: he is he so sorry, that's an involuntary celibate. That's 494 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 2: that's somebody. It's it's a sort of subset of the 495 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 2: men's rights movement. 496 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 4: When you look at like. 497 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 2: Who his audience is, it is like the opposite of 498 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 2: what a normal corporate advertiser wants. Like it's it's just completely, 499 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 2: if not counterproductive, it's very close to it. And and 500 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 2: to the extent that Elon Musk is talking is using 501 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: the name Nick Fuents responding to people talking about Nick Foents. 502 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 4: It's bad, right. It may be engagement, but it's not 503 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 4: the kind of engagement they want. It's the opposite of 504 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 4: the convenation that they want. 505 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 5: I found it interesting to these sort of like, hey, 506 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 5: we may lose advertisers over this isn't isn't going to 507 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 5: be good for business? To me, it's almost cover at 508 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 5: this point, right, Like they're already losing advertisers. 509 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 3: It's already a. 510 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 4: You can't once you get this zero, I guess it's 511 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 4: hard to go like you know. 512 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, now he has something to point to, right, he 513 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 5: can say, well, business is bad because I'm supporting free 514 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 5: speech over here, and it's like, well, business was kind 515 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 5: of already bad, but this might just be you know, 516 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 5: an added example. 517 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 4: Okay, So Kurt, there was other news over the weekend, 518 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 4: which is that Jack Dorsey, formerly the head of X 519 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 4: Twitter at the time, has he's left the Blue Sky 520 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 4: board and he's now praising X again. Remind us again 521 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 4: what exactly Blue Sky was, and how do we interpret 522 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 4: all of this? 523 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, Blue Sky it's a little bit tough to understand. 524 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 5: But the simplest explanation is it's a social network that 525 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 5: looks and feels very much like Twitter, but it is 526 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 5: you know, decentralized. So this idea that it is not 527 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 5: owned by any single company or any single investor in 528 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 5: theory would never like go out of business so long 529 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 5: as you know, someone's pain to keep the servers running. 530 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 5: And the idea started while Jack Dorsey was still at 531 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 5: Twitter as a way to sort of create a you know, 532 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 5: solution to the fact that these companies are beholden to 533 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 5: you know, investors, or they're beholden to advertisers or all 534 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 5: these things where they have to make a business decision 535 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 5: that you know, means they might have to kick someone 536 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 5: like Nick Foyintes off the platform. 537 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 3: That kind of stuff bothered Jack Dorsey. 538 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 5: So he said, hey, let's create a different network that 539 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 5: doesn't have any owner, that has none of these pressures 540 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 5: around Wall Street. It's not publicly traded, and you know, 541 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 5: that can be sort of the solution to all this stuff. 542 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 5: And he funded it while he was at Twitter. He 543 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 5: joined the board after he left Twitter, and now he 544 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 5: is sort of, as far as I can tell, like 545 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 5: abandoning this this idea, at least this version of this idea, 546 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 5: and has started to I saw him post it on 547 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 5: X quite a bit over the weekend. 548 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 4: Matt Max, you seem to have a theory. 549 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean it just it's like there were 550 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 2: all these ideas about sort of what who's going to 551 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: take the mantle after you know, Elon Musk, when Elon 552 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 2: Musk was firing you know, eighty percent of his. 553 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 4: Staff at Twitter. 554 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: At Twitter now X and doing all these things that 555 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: seemed somewhat destructive to the brand, like letting, letting the 556 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 2: likes of Nick foante Son, and you know, it just 557 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 2: seems like Twitter, even even a reduced Twitter, even a 558 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 2: Twitter that is somewhat has been somewhat taken over by 559 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: crypto schillers or you know, weird you know, alt right 560 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 2: types or whatever, it's still Twitter. And maybe Jack Doorsey, 561 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 2: just like the rest of us, he just can't. He 562 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: just can't get off of it, even if he knows, 563 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 2: he knows in his heart that there was there's a 564 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: better thing out there, It's just it has a pull 565 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: on him. 566 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 4: We're going to go into our final segment, Max, We're 567 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 4: going to have you break down and analyze critically some 568 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 4: advice that Elon had for jk Rowling, the author of 569 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 4: Harry Potter Max Well. 570 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: Jk Rowling, as many people know, in addition to being 571 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 2: the best selling author of Harry Potter and a bunch 572 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 2: of Harry Potter spin offs, has for some time now 573 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: been on something of a kind of anti woke kick 574 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 2: has posted many, many posts about what she sees as 575 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: sort of overreached by in terms of trans rights, and 576 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: many people feel like she's expressed, you know, bigoted, anti 577 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,719 Speaker 2: trans statements. She's been sort of fighting this battle on 578 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 2: social media for some time, and more or less out 579 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: of nowhere. 580 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 4: Elon Musk replied to. 581 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: One of her tweets it was like a month old tweet, 582 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 2: suggesting that she might want to try posting sort of 583 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 2: more positive content. 584 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 4: The ekes was from Elon was, while I heartily agree 585 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 4: with your points regarding sex and gender, may I suggest 586 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 4: also posting interesting and positive content on other matters. 587 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: It's weird how a guy who like just types mostly 588 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 2: memes and like one word things will then suddenly string 589 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: a sentence that almost seems like it was written by 590 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: you know, chat GPT or something. But anyway, as you 591 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: can imagine David, when I saw this, I had one thought, 592 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 2: which was feud. 593 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 4: God, Danna. He can't he can't help himself. He sees 594 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 4: this guy sees feuds everywhere. Dana is this if he's 595 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 4: going to take this into feud territory? Are you okay 596 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 4: with that? 597 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: I'm okay with it. I just think it's so funny 598 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: that like Musk is now the tone plus, like mister 599 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: free speech is tone policing. JK Rowlings. This was Grock 600 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: doing his why why why? And is he trying to 601 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: steal thunder from the bigger beef of the weekend, which, 602 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: let's face it is really Drake and Hendrick and Molamar. 603 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: That was the beef that everyone on the internet was 604 00:31:59,040 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: paying attention to. 605 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 4: But Max, we stole the mic from you, so we're 606 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 4: gonna give it back. 607 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: You were saying, as I said, this is you know, 608 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: I'd say it's a very delicate form of criticism, but 609 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: as Danna says, coming from Elon Musket, you know, kind 610 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 2: of crazy for a guy who ekes is you know, 611 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 2: seven thousand times, a guy who had mostly about culture 612 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 2: war stuff, for a guy who the SEC had signed 613 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 2: a Twitter sitter two to that supposedly every single eks 614 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 2: he made. So yeah, also okay, So so JK. Rowling 615 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: did sort of respond. The following day, she did another 616 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 2: post with a profile of hers and it said something like, 617 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: some people have suggested I need to post more positive 618 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: material through you. This is not a response to that, 619 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: but everyone who's watching knows. Of course, shots fired, basically 620 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 2: going straight to a Drake Kendrick situation, and then Elon 621 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 2: quickly de escalated. He actually then posted later something to 622 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 2: the effect of JK Rowling is awesome. It seems like 623 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 2: he realized all of a sudden he was not ready 624 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 2: to you know, beef with the world famous best selling 625 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: author Harry Potter. 626 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 4: No, I see, so it's not a feud. 627 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 3: It was a feud. 628 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 2: Well on my power ranking, which I maintain it is. 629 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 2: It is at number ten, so it's at the very 630 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 2: bottom of the power ranking. 631 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: Climbing up the leaderboard. 632 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 3: But I'm keeping it. 633 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm keeping it on there because you just never 634 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 2: know where these things are going to go. 635 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 4: Kirk to wrap up here is this, Do we think 636 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 4: this is a bit of a window into the new 637 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 4: elon on X that periodically he's going to want to 638 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 4: try to play the hey, let's moderate tone guy, or no, 639 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 4: this is just some random one off. 640 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 3: I think it's a random one off. 641 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 5: I mean this is all coming within what twenty four 642 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 5: hours of him, you know, bringing back a pretty well 643 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 5: known white supremacist, right, So it's like he can't really 644 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 5: be the guy who's setting the tone on Twitter and 645 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 5: telling people to clean up their act and you know, hey, 646 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 5: let's be a little more positive and then at the 647 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 5: same time like bring back the guy who you know 648 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 5: is all about white Christianity and think that those things 649 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 5: are going to be fine. 650 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 3: So I just I don't know. 651 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 5: I don't really see this as anymore than just maybe 652 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 5: someone sent it, someone maybe tagged him. He came across 653 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 5: it randomly and chimed in and moved on with his day, 654 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 5: and he. 655 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 4: Was in a particularly mellow. 656 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 3: Mood at the time. 657 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 2: Jeez, there's a lot of controversial content on this platform. 658 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 2: It does feel like he it's a attempt to correct, right, 659 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 2: It's like, my guess is like he spent a lot 660 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 2: of time, you know, letting this white supremacist on the platform, 661 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: and maybe is trying to do something to not at 662 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, there are other kinds of 663 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 2: content beyond controversial content and when especially, it would. 664 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 4: Be much better if JK. 665 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: Rowling was talking about wizards all day on Twitter rather 666 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: than you know, beefing with the left. 667 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 4: Very good. So, listeners, you heard that Max mentioned a 668 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 4: power ranking. Yes, it's true. He is now compiling. He 669 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 4: spends hours and hours and hours a week compiling, pouring 670 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 4: over his feud power rankings. We are not ready to 671 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 4: release them to America yet, but they are coming soon. 672 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 4: So you will have to stay tuned for that, Max, Dana, Kurt, 673 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 4: thanks for joining. 674 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 3: Me, Thank you, thank you, thanks for having me. 675 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,399 Speaker 1: Always a pleasure, great to be here. 676 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 4: This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. Naomi Shaven and 677 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 4: Rayhan Harmanci are senior editors. The idea for this very 678 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 4: show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and 679 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 4: we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott our supervising 680 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 4: producers Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon theme is written and performed 681 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 4: by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. Brendan Francis Newnham is 682 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 4: our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head of 683 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 4: Bloomberg Podcasts. I'm David Papadopolis. If you have a minute, 684 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 4: rate and review our sh show, it'll help other listeners 685 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 4: find us. See in San Francisco.