1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to it Happen here a show that is once 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: again today about the Chilean revolution. Um, here's part two 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: of my interview with Nicholas Scott. Yeah, I guess, I 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: guess the next thing you should look at is like 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: how how it's exactly you know, the essentially by the 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: end of ends first year, things are looking very promising. 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: So a few victories more than a few victories, but 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 1: a few key victories take place in his first year 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: in office. In one he submits his plan for the 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: nationalization of the nation's mineral wealth, which is voted unanimously 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: in Congress, which speaks to the level of broad support 12 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: for Chile having its own national sovereignty over its own resources. Right. 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: And this also then connects with sort of the theme 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: that we've been developing this whole time, which is the 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: sort of tree in regional and global similarities between Chile 16 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: and elsewhere. Right, A lot of the Third World movement, 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: a lot of countries in the so called Third World 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: at that time, are looking to nationalization as the way 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: to extricate themselves from what they viewed as being in 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: a relationship of dependency to circuits of global capitalism. Right, 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: you have this whole idea of dependency theory that comes 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: out of Latin America in specific UM and the solution 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: then is seen to be able to control one's own 24 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: natural resources uh and and use that wealth to develop 25 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: its own national industry. Right. This would overcome the sort 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: of bottlenext in the imports institution model UM, as well 27 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: as allowing for more redistributive UMM structure of wealth and 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: or land within the individual countries themselves, so he gets 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: his mineral wealth UM nationalization past. The Popular Unity Coalition 30 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: also wins a series of off fear or by elections 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: at the local level UM and wins them so successfully 32 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 1: that they will eschew a alliance with the Christian Democrats, 33 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: who are not part of the coalition the Popular unw coalition, 34 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: but they are also at this time not part of 35 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: the opposition, which is largely controlled by the Nationalist Party. 36 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: They're sort of in somewhere in the middle, but they're 37 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: also in the point in the middle in which they 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: control a large share of the Congress as well as 39 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: the courts themselves, so they will not so the popularly 40 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: UNI coalition is sort of buoyed by that. What it 41 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: sees is the success at the ballot box and it 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: sees its success is getting its plans passed, and so 43 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: they will issue an alliance with the Christian Democrats. And 44 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: then the sort of other main thing that takes place 45 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: in the nine is that is able to affect using 46 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: macroeconomic policies that were functionally Kansianism right UM in his 47 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: economic minister Pedro Fuskovic, UM will essentially allow for a 48 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: redistribution of wealth in which workers received sort of UM 49 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: what they could what we can consider bonuses, right, but 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: sort of automatic increases UM that were affected from the 51 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: top down in wages across UH. And the historian Peter 52 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: Wynn who published the sort of landmark study UM that 53 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: really dominated the field of the history and the historiography 54 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: of the Popular Unity years. He published a book called 55 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: The Leaverse of Revolution that looks at the Arbor Textile Mill, 56 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: which was the first mill that I in a nationalizes 57 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: UM in nine. And what when found during his research 58 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: is that you know, in these policies in nine allowed 59 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: a majority of Chileans to purchase bedsheets for the first 60 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: time in many of their lives. Bedsheets were not something 61 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: that a majority of Chileans used, despite the fact that 62 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: a majority of Chileans worked in the textile industry. Right 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: the textile industry was one of the most developed industries 64 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: in Chile at this moment, and so all of these 65 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: things sort of come together, and by the end of 66 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy one signs are looking good. However, by 67 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: the time sort of nineteen seventy two dawns and as 68 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: we're getting into the nineteen seventy two cracks are beginning 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: to appear. There's another series of by elections in which 70 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: the Popular Unity Coalition does not win, the Christian Democrats 71 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: win UH. The election for the Rector of the University 72 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: of Chile is a shock defeat for the Popular Unity 73 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: Coalition and the Christian Democrat wins that UM. As well. 74 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: As in nineteen seventy two, there is, for the first 75 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: time in the nation's history, the Central Workers Federation of 76 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: Labor the COOT has for the first time its own 77 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: um open elections for its leadership. Was the first time 78 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: the rank and file could elect the leadership of the 79 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: National Labor Confederation, and the Communists win the largest majority 80 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: and the Socialists come in second, but just below the Socialists, 81 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: and at the percentage level, it was functionally the same 82 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: where the Christian Democrats, so much so that basically a 83 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: court that the Popular Union Coalition sees that a quarter 84 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: of the working class of Chile identifies as a Christian Democrat. Meanwhile, economically, 85 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: things are beginning to stall out. Inflation is beginning to 86 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: creep back up. UM production is not necessarily at the 87 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: levels that um the government would want it to be at. Right, 88 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: so the idea of winning the battle of production begins 89 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: becomes the sort of watchword or rallying cry in nineteen 90 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: seventy two. Uh And if the successes of nineteen seventy 91 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: one had somewhat papered over the sectarian differences that we 92 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: were discussing earlier, between say, the Communists and socialists, by 93 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two those secretary differences are really spilling out 94 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: into public view. So in mid nineteen seventy two you 95 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: have the Communist Party, um member of the Communist Party 96 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: is also a member of the allen A government or 97 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: Orlando MEAs Pens and editorial in which he essentially calls 98 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: for the party for the coalition to sort of close ranks, 99 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: to consolidate its games, to reach out to the Christian 100 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: Democrats to make an alliance and use that sort of 101 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: consolidated alliance as the way to move forward on in 102 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: the revolutionary path. The Socialists, however, specifically the left wing 103 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: of the Socialist Party, which was sort of identified with 104 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: Carlo Carlos Ultimarano at the time, takes the opposite approach 105 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: and says that, know, the solution isn't to consolidate to advance. Uh, 106 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: the solution is to advance and consolidate by advancing. In 107 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: other words, we shouldn't try to make an alliance with 108 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: the Christian Democrats because in their view, the Christian Democrats 109 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: were just bourgeois right, that we should essentially align ourselves 110 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: with the popular classes, with the world laborers that are 111 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: meeting charge of the agrarian reform that's picking up speed 112 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: rapidly in the countryside at this time right see, land 113 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: seizures are taking place much more rapidly. Now, we should 114 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: also place our alliances with the popular working classes, which 115 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: at that moment, at the moment that this polemic is 116 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: playing out in the Press of Chile, is the very 117 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: same moment do you have the first cordoon industrial emerged 118 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: in city of s Maipo, uh. And it's into that 119 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: sort of fractured moment that you have workers from a 120 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: couple of plants that just happened to meet serendipitous lee 121 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: on the steps of the Labor Ministry one day in 122 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: Um about May of nineteen seventy two. They had both 123 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: been on strike and had both been demanding their incorporation 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: into what was referred to as the Social Property Area, 125 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: which this was ends vision for creating a socialist economy, 126 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: and this was a plan that he had submitted to 127 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: the Congress to rest ucture the Chilean economy into three parts. 128 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: There would have a social property area that would be 129 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: owned and operated by the state, You'd have a mixed 130 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: property area that would be a sort of mixture between 131 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: the state and private industry. And you'd have a private 132 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: property area which would just be business as usual, private enterprise. UM. Ultimately, 133 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: that plan had been stalled out because of opposition from 134 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: the Christian Democrats that vetoed it and submitted their own 135 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: alternative strategy, which then i end a vetoed the game 136 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: a constitutional crisis that got remanded to the Constitutional Tribunal 137 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: in Chile, which ultimately languished there through the end of 138 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: the Enda government through nineteen seventy three during the coup 139 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: has never really resolved. Nevertheless, workers saw the ability to 140 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: be in put into the social property area as the 141 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: solution to what they perceived as a revolutionary socialism right 142 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: to be in a socialized economy. And I mentioned earlier 143 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: Peter Win's work on the ardor textile mill. That's exactly 144 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: what the workers at yard or did they decided to do. 145 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: Now that is in opposition to all End and the 146 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: Popular Unity's plan, which was to put these sort of 147 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: grand monopolies in the social property area, not necessarily smaller 148 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: industries such as such as the yardor textile mill in particular. Um. 149 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: There were other perhaps textile companies that have inslated for incorporation. 150 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: But the problem is that the workers successfully petitioned UM 151 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: and pressured Ende and one there incorporation, and that unleashed 152 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: what Win would refer to as a revolution from below. 153 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: And that's what allowed the workers who sees the Labor 154 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: ministry that day in nine to demand their incorporation into 155 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: the social property area. Because there was a law on 156 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: the books in Chile that stated that if there was 157 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: an unresolved labor conflict of the factory that the state 158 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: could intervene and essentially make state control of that factory, 159 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: which would be the first step to them being incorporated 160 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: into the social property area. And so it's out of 161 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: that happenstance meeting on the doors to the labor ministry 162 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: when they seize it and take it over, shut it down. 163 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: Um that then the workers of this industrial sector on 164 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: the west of Santiago begin meeting, and they begin collaborating, 165 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: and they begin organizing themselves territorially. And I guess this 166 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: is a good moment to apologize to our listeners that 167 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: never really gave a good definition as to what a 168 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: cortone industryal was in practice. Essentially, the sort of wager 169 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: of this organization was that you could organize yourself territorially 170 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: rather than by trade or industry, right, which would be 171 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: the traditional way that a union would be structured. Um, 172 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: metal workers organized with metal workers, class workers organized with 173 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: the class workers, textile etcetera, etcetera. Um, and never the 174 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: twain shall meet in practice, right, It's all through bureaucratic structures, 175 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: labor leaders, etcetera. As I mentioned, it wasn't until nineteen 176 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: seventy two that the rank and file is ever able 177 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: to vote themselves for their own national leadership. And so 178 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: the idea of these workers is that they're going to 179 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: create their sort of new form of organization. And after 180 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: you know, deciding to do it, they seized the territory 181 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: of Si Smaipoo. They shut down traffic and this road 182 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: that they seize is one of the main roads into 183 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: the city of Santiago from the west, which means that 184 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: the government had to respond immediately. As one worker, uh 185 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: not worker one government official put it at the time, 186 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: the workers were in the streets. We had to respond, right, 187 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: you're you're a government that it claims to represent the 188 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: working class. You're a government that it claims to be 189 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: putting yourself on the road to socialism. And the workers 190 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: have now cut off transportation into the city UM and 191 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: demanding sort of you to fulfill your promise. And so 192 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: they had to respond um. Ultimately, some of the workers 193 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: that were striking at the time, specifically from the Purlack Company, 194 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: which was a canning company, UH, they did win the 195 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: incorporation into the Social Property Area UM. And however, other 196 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: workers UM from other factories in the area did not 197 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: win their incorporation, which then produced a march into the 198 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: city of Santiago in late June, and it also produced 199 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: a platform of struggle by what was referred to as 200 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: the Workers Command of crimp UH and that's really the 201 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: first document we have um that shows that there is 202 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: this new structure that is demanding that the government fulfill 203 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: its promise live up to its basic program um. Now 204 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: following that moment, however, there's sort of a period of 205 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: demobilization that takes place in sort of mid nineteen and 206 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: it's really not until October nineteen seventy two that you 207 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: have the flourishing of this new form of organization of 208 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: the Cortona industrial across the city of Santiago. And the 209 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: reason that it takes place in October nineteen seventy two 210 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: is to as that's the moment that the opposition launches 211 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: its first concerted effort to try and topple the illenda 212 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: government's referred to as the Boss's Strike. And essentially what 213 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: happens is there's a localized strike of truckers in the 214 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: far south of Chile and the sort of business the 215 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: elites of the country are successful in transforming what is 216 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: a very localized strike in the far South into a 217 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: global lockout on the part of business owners, right, So 218 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: they'll shutter factories, they'll shutter distribution centers of food stuffs, 219 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: they'll completely shut down transportation networks in the city of 220 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: Santiago and other cities across the country. UM. So you 221 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: can understand why they would call it the boss of strike. UM. 222 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: And this is the moment then that you have workers 223 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: in these industrial zones that we start began our conversation 224 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: with using this model that emerged in the southwest of 225 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: Santiago as this new model to seize their factories that 226 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: they've been locked out of, to reorganize the product oction 227 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: of their factories, and to ensure distribution you know, takes 228 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: place of basic goods and services for local residents in 229 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: their community. It's really what allows the end a government 230 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: to whether the storm of the October strike and the 231 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: October crisis as it will also be known UM. Ultimately 232 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: you know that will reach a truth in November that 233 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: includes a cabinet shake up, also includes integrating the military 234 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: and cabinet UM as well as Ada was able to 235 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: deploy the military to sort of keep the peace in 236 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: some senses. So there is a historiographical debate to be 237 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: had between you know, how much of it was the 238 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: workers and the cordonis saving the country and saving the government, 239 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: and how much of it was the military remaining loyal 240 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: to the government that allows them to sort of reach 241 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: was referred to as the truth of them. So I 242 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: guess I want to back up for a second and 243 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: talk about what is the intern organization of the criticize 244 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: actually look like? Like are we talking about souls? Is 245 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: this mass assemblies? Um? How how how does this actually 246 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: work on a sort of like day to day basis 247 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: the great question, and this is actually the question that 248 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: has sort of dominated a lot of the scholarship on 249 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: the Cordonists. Um, Frank go to shoot? Who is sort 250 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: of the leading scholar of the Cordonists, essentially used Marx's 251 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: distinction of a class in itself and a class for 252 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: itself to sort of unraveled this question. So for for 253 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: going to shoot, the Cordona in itself is the sort 254 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: of territory, right that we began our conversation with. And 255 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: then the Cordona for itself is essentially the workers Council 256 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: that is the governing body of the Cordona itself, which 257 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: was composed of already unionized workers, right, So it already 258 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: is a tier of working class above say just your 259 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: general worker that worked on the factory floor. So it's 260 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: already a unionized worker. And some of that occupies a 261 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: power or a position of authority within the union, i e. 262 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: Already a for on the directorate or president, vice president, 263 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: treasurer or secretary, so that main councils are elected within 264 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: the sort of general assembly of the court on itself. 265 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: Below you have then different commissions, right. You have a 266 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: sort of propaganda press commission, you have a cultural commission, 267 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: you have a sports commission. You have the security Commission, 268 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: right because at this time you had far right shock 269 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: troops that would uh spark street battles and that would 270 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: harass workers that would also have pack factories that had 271 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: been seized, so that they had um Security Commission, Frontline 272 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: Defense Commission. You also had distribution commissions, uh, and then 273 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: you had other commissions that would essentially seek to coordinate 274 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: all of this um that exists. So you had a 275 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: sort of coordinating board just below the sort of general council. 276 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: And then that's what was the mediation point between that 277 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: sort of governing Council and your different commissions. How how 278 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: are the people who are like who are on these 279 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: commissions selected? Are they like, are they elected? Or is 280 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: they just like whoever wants to be on this thing? 281 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 1: So it's a mix of both, right, so you you're 282 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: sort of main council itself is elected via general Assembly. Um. 283 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: In terms of the commissions, the smaller commissions, we sadly 284 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: don't have great documentary evidence that you know, lays out 285 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: the process for that. So our best guests or our 286 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: best understanding would be a mix of sort of volunteerism 287 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: as well as some sort of um, within the commission itself, 288 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: some form of election excuse me, that would take place 289 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: to sort of a point ahead of that commission that 290 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: would then coordinate with the general Council itself. Um. You know, 291 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: really what this you know what this sort of cuts 292 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: the heart of UM is that the history of the 293 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: Cordonates is a very evervescent history. Um. It's really easy 294 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: to see the Cordons in action, right when they're doing 295 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: things like seizing control of their territory and erecting barricades. 296 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: But on that day to day level, it's a relatively 297 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: opaque sort of structure. It's really hard for us as 298 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: historians to get a view into that. You know. One 299 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: reason the good Shoot is able to you know, unpack 300 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: as much as he has and uncover as much as 301 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: he has is because he conducted a series of oral 302 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: history interviews UM with many of the surviving workers UM. 303 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: And that's really one of the foundational source spaces we have. 304 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: He published this in a book in which he published 305 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: the full transcript of his interviews, so we don't it's 306 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: not just like an interpretive essay, it's the full transcript UM. 307 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: And so that's that in combination with some of these 308 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: Cordini has had local presses that we have existing UM 309 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: documentary evidence from that sort of would give you know, 310 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: your standard diagram of council commission, commission commission lines connecting 311 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: them and things like that. UM. Well, one of the 312 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: other few documents that we have surviving documents we have 313 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: is what's referred to as the Manifesto of Cordone Faquinimakina. 314 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: And this is the document that my research really is 315 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: at the heart of my research UM because while the 316 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: Unamacana is recognized as sort of one of the most 317 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: dynamic and strongest of the Cordonas behind the original and 318 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: studios my pou, we really don't have a lot, We 319 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: don't know a lot about what was going on in there. 320 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: In fact, my research was born out of a conversation 321 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: the first time I was in Chile conducting research for 322 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: my master's at toughs Um with go to Shoot himself, 323 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: who told me that, like, we really don't know a 324 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: lot about what was going on day to day in 325 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: Focuna Mcana, would be really great if we could somehow 326 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: find a way to do that. Uh, And you know, 327 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: that kind of stuck with me. That really wasn't my 328 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: concern at the time. My concerned at the time was 329 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: trying to understand how the cordonas had shifted from their 330 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: emergence to the coup itself, because what I was seeing 331 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: in a lot of the literature was that people were 332 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: using sources from late nineteen seventy three, once the cordinates 333 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: are established and really showing up and press right, They're 334 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: showing up in the archive a lot more by nineteen 335 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: seventy three, and are used in documents from nineteen seventy 336 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: three to describe they're sort of founding in nineteen seventy 337 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: two and the historian and me was kind of like, hmm, 338 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, that's things change, right, and things change 339 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: both over time and space. And so my original concern was, 340 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: you know, what made the sort of changes from the 341 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: western side of the Sydney to the eastern side of 342 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: the city. But then when I got to u v 343 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: A and began my doctoral work, I really wanted to 344 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: zero in on Facunamachina. And really I was, you know 345 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: that that conversation with Frank was really ringing in my head. 346 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: And so you know, I kinda at u v A 347 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: had to do another master's essay as part of the 348 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: program there, despite having already done a master's thesis when 349 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: I was. It tough exactly exactly the thesis curse. But 350 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: you know what it did, what it allowed me to 351 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: do was two uh, you know, kind of play with 352 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: the sources in ways that I may not have had 353 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: the ability to do otherwise, right uh. And so I 354 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: really sat with this manifesto for a long period time 355 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: and really did a close reading of this document, which 356 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of times this document has shown 357 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: up in previous studies. It's shown up as a this 358 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: is a document that emerges during the October crisis. It's 359 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: the document we know we have from this one cordone 360 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: here it is, right. But what I uncovered was that 361 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: the document itself, the document that is headed as the Manifesto, 362 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: is actually a reworked version of a document that had 363 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: circulated previously during the Occober Crisis, that was produced by 364 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: the revolutionary left movement, The Mirror, the far Left Party 365 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: and the aren't they ASTs They are? They very much are. 366 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: This is the very far left UM party that is 367 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: calling for a more insurrectionary model UM. It's also calling 368 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: for worker peasant alliance, right, So it is this very 369 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: much more traditional UM social revolutionary in that sense, compared 370 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: to the sort of Allendeist vision of socialism that is 371 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: being handed down from above. Right. And so during the 372 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: October crisis, there's this document that circulates by the opposition 373 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: that's running the crisis that is essentially the petition the 374 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: plago in Spanish would be the word, but essentially the 375 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: Petition of of Chile UM and the Mirror takes issue 376 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: with the fact that the bosses issued a petition in 377 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: the name of Chile, and so they issue a counter 378 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: document that is the People's Petition, the pliego del pueblo. 379 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: And it's a very long document, it's a very um 380 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: It reads as a essentially a manifesto for a new 381 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: revolution to take place, right like, how to transform the 382 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: present crisis into a revolutionary breakthrough. And as you're saying, 383 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: a war veriest model in the tail end of the 384 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: October crisis, as Cordonacamacana is consolidating itself right, itself forms 385 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: after a factory seizure at elec metal Um, which then 386 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: unites these sort of two nodes that existed in the 387 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: territory at the north end and the south end into 388 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: one sort of communication and solidarity network that will then 389 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: become known as the Cordon that has its first general 390 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: assembly in which it takes this document from the mirror 391 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: and begins to rework it. And that's then what becomes 392 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: the Manifesto of Cordinalcunamacana. And so in my research and 393 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: in my master's essay at the University of Virginia, what 394 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: I did was, you know, I really compared these two 395 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: documents and looked for where the differences, you know, what's 396 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: showing up here that's not showing up in the nearest document. 397 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: In other words, what glimpses can we get of the 398 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: local culture of Acunamacina itself. Um. And one of the 399 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: key differences that I find end is there's an entire 400 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: section that begins the manifesto that was the crime of 401 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: the bosses, the crimes of the bosses, and that exists 402 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: in the Mayor's document as well. But the crimes that 403 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: are articulated are there slight differences, but the in the 404 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: manifesto itself, the final crime that's articulated is that the 405 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: manifesto reads that it's a crime that the basic few 406 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: elite in Chile continue to use the country's wealth to 407 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: support their privileges without giving a dignified life to a 408 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: majority of Chileans. And this doesn't appear anywhere in the 409 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: Mirror's document. And it was something about this phrase of 410 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: a dignified life that really just like cued my analytical 411 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: census that sort of raised the flags for me. And 412 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: this is what then led me down the road that 413 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: I'm on now, which is the road of looking at 414 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: things like the church and the Pope lad Or movement, 415 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: because the idea of dignity and the idea of a 416 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: dignified life is a key discoorse that's circulating in the 417 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: church's pastoralism right coming out. As we were speaking about earlier, 418 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: the discourse of dignity is really present in the church's 419 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: outreach efforts, but it's also present in this Pope lad 420 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: Door movement for housing. The idea of a dignified house 421 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: as the end goal of their struggle is something that is, 422 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, rings out in the documents that we have 423 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: access to and in the oral histories that we have, 424 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: and so that really, you know, made me think, like, 425 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: what is that then about the kunamakaina that is allowing 426 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,239 Speaker 1: just to appear here? And you know what can we 427 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: then learn using this as our you know, starting point 428 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: and going out where? And so that's when I decided 429 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: to sort of take the story back all the way 430 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifties seven and look at things like the church, 431 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: look at things like the Pope Late Door movement, but 432 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: then also extend the story passed the nineteen seventy three period, 433 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: which is when the coup takes place, which is you know, 434 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: in the historiography seen as this hard line in this 435 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: this break in in Sholyan history that there's a before 436 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: September eleventh nine seventy three, and there's an after September eleventh, 437 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, and very few studies crossed that line, 438 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: especially studies with regards to the labor movement specifically the 439 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: dignity thing is is really be interesting to me too, 440 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: because so I didn't interview like, oh God, like a 441 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: month ago, sort of have lost track of time, but 442 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: I didn't interview with within with an Amazon organizer. And 443 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: one of the things that that was one of the 444 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: things that was like one of the things that he 445 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: brought up is that one of the things that like 446 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: we are fighting for his dignity, and yeah, that that 447 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: that's something specifically I've been thinking about more because like 448 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: I think we talked about this a bit in the 449 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: interview itself, but like, like dignity as a demand is 450 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: a thing that you that you see all of the 451 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: time in like in in in you know, if if 452 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: if if you're talking to a bunch of people, like 453 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: on the streets in the middle of a movement, you 454 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: will hear people talk about dignity. I mean, I think, 455 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: if if I'm remembering this correctly, this is this is 456 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: one of the this is one of the big things. 457 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: This is one of the big demands, and like the 458 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: modern Chilean protest movements like that was one of their 459 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: huge sort of focus. But it's but it's also something 460 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: like I have never like any I don't think I've 461 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: ever seen like a communist party say the word dignity 462 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: like like it I think it happens, I don't know 463 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: every once in a while, like maybe you see it 464 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: if you get a document that's that's not produced by 465 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: the sort of audiological engines, but it is produced by 466 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: like just a bunch of workers in a factory. But yeah, yeah, 467 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: that that that's fascinating to me because yeah, because that 468 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it seems like the structive 469 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: for dignity both yeah, has this thing as like a 470 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: very specific discourse from the church, but it's also something 471 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: that shows up in a lot of movements where you're 472 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: not dealing with the kind of like ideological rigidity that 473 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: you get from you know, like the mirror not the 474 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: mirror is a like that that you know, like that 475 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: that's that's a very like like this is a party. 476 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: It has a line, it has a very sort of 477 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: like zation. Yeah, yeah, and it's fascinating to me that that, Yeah, 478 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: that that you can see these differences where even when 479 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: they have influence, the thing that gets acted as dignity. Yeah, 480 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: I mean there is you know, I think that perhaps 481 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: what has UM pushed studies of leftism, socialism, and labor 482 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: movement away from the idea of dignity as an analytic 483 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: object is there is tension here. Right, Dignity is a 484 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: highly individualized concept, but the solution for a dignified life 485 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: for all Chileans, as per this document were collective structural changes, 486 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: and so there's this tension between a collective solution and 487 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: an individual game, right, And so I think that that 488 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: both um explains why this hasn't necessarily been a focus 489 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: of a lot of studies UM before. But it also, 490 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, it gets to the historiography itself, which was 491 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: a large product of the history here. And so things 492 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: like the Christian Democrats and things like the Church were 493 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: seen as the enemy of the popular unity coalition, give 494 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: them the way that the you know, the coup takes 495 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: place and things like that, and so anything that maybe 496 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: had a whiff of Christian democracy or Christianity or things 497 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: like that was seen as as antithetical or incompatible the 498 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: study of the left. It also gets to the tension 499 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: that you were doing a really great job of sort 500 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: of unpacking, which is this tension between the national leadership 501 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: of these parties and the national union leadership and then 502 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: everyday workers on the ground right. And you know, that's 503 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: I think really where the strength. And this was really 504 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: the argument that I advanced in my master's thesis the 505 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: UVA is that one of the central contradictions of the 506 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: all end A period is they were competing ideas of socialism. 507 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: So from the top down and from my end day's view, 508 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: socialism was the traditional Soviet union esque approach and so 509 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: far as it was national economic planning, party hierarchies, things 510 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: of that nature, right discipline at the base and upward 511 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: and upward planning from the top down. But what I 512 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: think the manifesto and the history of the quin Mkana 513 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: helps us understand is that for everyday individuals that their 514 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: idea of socialism didn't have anything to do with state 515 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: economic planning. It didn't have anything to do with expertise 516 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: and technocrats and things of that nature. It had to 517 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: do with the idea that like I need sheets from 518 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: my bed, I need food for my child. I need 519 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: the ability to you know, have enough sleep to be 520 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: able to get up and go to the factory the 521 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: next day. Right, I need to be able to live 522 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: a dignified life, to be able to then you know, 523 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: carry out my work, my obligation as a worker in 524 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: the historical movement of socialism, and so I think that 525 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: this is really what um this tension is then what 526 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: allows for the sort of destabilization to take place um 527 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: as the opposition consolidates and ultimately destabilizes the identic government 528 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: in nine. Yeah, I think this is a tension that like, 529 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's there's different versions of it 530 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: too that you see sort of across the street. Like 531 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: one of the way that it manifests is this battle 532 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: between people who think socialism is about like is national 533 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: like state national incorporation that people who think socialism is 534 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,479 Speaker 1: about like direct control at the point of production by 535 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: the people who are doing the work. But but I 536 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: think also, yeah, the question of dignity is it's like 537 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: it's this, It's like dignity is this expression that's like 538 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: maximally bad for UM. Like if you're like you know, 539 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: if you're like a you're you're you're a material you're like, 540 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, you're a historical materialist theoretician, right, It's it's 541 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: it's the worst possible slogan because on the one hand, 542 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: it's like it's not materialist, right, like what is dignity? 543 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: There's no dignity has no class relation, like what is that? 544 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: You know, and it's it's it's simultaneously like it's not 545 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: with jerious enough. It's too reformist because like, oh, well, 546 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: you can give people dignity by just buying them off 547 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: for like increasing wages, or you can have a class compromise, 548 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: and that can give you dignity. But then simultaneously it's 549 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: the thing that's too radical because the problem with dignity 550 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: also is it like yeah, I don't know, like there's 551 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: there's no guarantee that you're going to get dignity if 552 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: like your factories controlled by the state, like exactly, and yeah, 553 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: and this is why like you see almost identically just 554 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: by a different name. Yeah, and and yeah, it's like 555 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: it's why you see like the uprisings that happen um, 556 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: I mean really starting Hungary, but yeah, this is why, 557 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: like that they're uprising in Czechoslovakia looks almost identical to 558 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: like the uprising that happens in France. It's because they're 559 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: both like there there's you know, you're you're like you 560 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: the factory worker in a factory in Czechoslovakia and you 561 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: the factory worker in the factory in France are dealing 562 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: with essentially the same thing. And so it's it's this 563 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: kind of like I don't know, it's it seems like 564 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: it's it's it's this perfect sort of like cipher for 565 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: all of these kind of political differences that that that 566 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: that manifests this this this really old tension in what 567 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: the worker's movement is going to be that's been being 568 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: fought out since eighteen thirties. And yeah, but I think 569 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 1: that like if we as scholars and if we as 570 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: intellectuals are really serious about when we say that we're 571 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: going to study things from below, then I think that 572 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: we have to take the workers at their word, right, 573 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: And so like, for example, I presented a version of 574 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: my of my master's thesis at a I studied, was 575 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: it a program in Bologna for a summer um And 576 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: so I was presenting this and to the you know, 577 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: and the Italian leftists in the room, um really came 578 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, came down on this question of it sounds 579 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: like what they're describing isn't socialism because they're much more 580 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: interested in distribution and not interested in the point of production, 581 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: which isn't socialist. And you know, and all I could say, 582 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: and all I could respond to this is like, that's 583 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: what my subjects are using in the archive. And for me, 584 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: it's far more productive to look for those slippages and 585 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: look for those spaces and the archive when they are 586 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: saying something that may be different than what we understand 587 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 1: it to be, and that's a lot more productive avenue 588 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: for analysis. And that, to me is really how we 589 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: fulfill this obligation to study things from below, because we 590 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: have to actually take them at their word and understand 591 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: and try to understand what that actually meant for them, right, 592 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: and what that meant on an everyday basis. And I 593 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: think that there's a there's a sort of like practical 594 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: like organizational like like you know, if if if you 595 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: today want to do something like this, like I think, 596 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: I think there's there's an imperative there too, which is 597 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: that like you actually do have to take seriously what 598 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: people think and how that's different from the way that 599 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: like you the organizer are thinking about this, because those 600 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: are things that don't overlap, and a lot of times, 601 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: like you know, and it's it is not enough to 602 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: just be like, well, these people want dignity. What they 603 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: actually want is socialism or like what they actually want 604 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: to the abolition of the classes. It's like you have 605 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: to like believe them when they say that they want something, 606 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: and you know, and and when you don't do that, 607 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: and when you get these sort of disjuncts between like 608 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: when you get these distucts between the sort of the 609 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: sort of party bureaucracy on the top and what like 610 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: people in the streets who are season factories want like, yeah, 611 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: I think like things start to sort of came apart exactly. 612 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: And I know I think that, um that if we don't, 613 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, depart from the perspective of staying true to 614 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: what the archive gives us, then there's only a risk 615 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: that we're you know, every historian, every scholar is going 616 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: to inject their own interpretation onto a document, right, But 617 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: the best way to sort of safeguard that is to, 618 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: you know, stay true to what it's saying and that 619 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: you know, the same goes for an activist, an organizer, 620 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: as for an intellectual right, Like, if you don't depart 621 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: from the perspective of what your constituents or what your 622 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 1: group is saying, you know, what they're really saying, the 623 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: words that they're using to describe their demanding, then you're 624 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: only ever going to just be trying to sort of 625 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: fit the you know, the square peg in the round hole. Yeah, 626 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: and and that can go really really really spectacularly broad. Yeah, exactly, 627 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: And you know, and that is you know what then 628 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: leads to you know, in the case of the cordonis 629 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: that will then lead to tensions that will really break 630 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: out into the open. In nineteen seventy three, in early 631 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, when the um Orlando MEAs the same 632 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: person that starts that polemic in nineteen seventy two. By 633 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: this point it becomes Finance Minister Um in the end 634 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: administration and presents a plan to sort of devolve some 635 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 1: of the factories that have been seized during the October 636 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: crisis right back to their original owners. Uh. And then 637 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: this creates a huge problem, huge tension between the base 638 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: between workers and these factories that had sort of sacrificed 639 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: everything and put their lives, literally put their lives on 640 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: the line to seize the factories in the first place. Um, 641 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: and so then you have another sort of moment of 642 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: mobilization of the cordonies across the city of Santiago in 643 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: early V three. That's very much an opposition to the government. Now, 644 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: can I can I ask a brief sort of framing 645 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: question about this, which is that like, okay, so we 646 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 1: talked about this in in in the interview we did 647 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: with some with modern Challean activists, but like, what what 648 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: is the population of Santiago relative to like the population 649 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: of the entirety of Chile at this point? Like how 650 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: is it? Yeah, that is a great question that I 651 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: don't actually have statistics like that. I can rattle no 652 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: worries out in my head. Um, but you know, I 653 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: mean there's there is Uh. It is a great you know, 654 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: Santiago is the most populous region for sure, all right, 655 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: and so rather the most populous city and then sort 656 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: of metropolitan region itself is very densely popular. And is 657 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: it is it still like like a pretty significant like 658 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: population of the entire country or is it less it 659 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: is a significant population of the whole country? For sure, um, 660 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: but there is tension in this and then this is 661 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: kind of the reason why I always try to steer 662 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: somewhat away from these types of questions, because I'm sure 663 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: this came up in your conversation with Chilean activists, is 664 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: that you know, there is the phrase that Santiago is 665 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: not Chile, and so there is a there is a 666 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: tendency to rely on statistics of Santiago's population, of the 667 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: metropolitan region's population, to say like, oh, this is where 668 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: the majority of people live, so if it happened in Santiago, 669 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: then that must be true for all of Chile. Um. 670 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: And that just isn't the case, right. Chile is a 671 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: huge country. It may be very narrow, but it is 672 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: very long north to south. Uh and you know, it 673 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: is very distinct across the many regions of Chile, and 674 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: so very much on the side of those that argue 675 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: that Santiago is not Chile. Unfortunately, in the case the cordonists, 676 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: the majority of them do exist in Thiago. That said, 677 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: in concepion Um, you know another Chile. Further to the 678 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: south of Santiago, there is one of the other cities 679 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: that we know for sure actually did have Cordonias that 680 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: were moderately successful as well. In fact, there is and 681 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: now I'm completely forgetting her name, um, but there is 682 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: a historian that has published a book about the Cordonis 683 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: in Concepcion. This is one of the few studies that 684 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: sort of tries to look at cordona Is beyond Santiago itself, 685 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, and a very well taken point, um on 686 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: my part here that like, you know, a lot of 687 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: our discussion today has been about Santiago, and so it's 688 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: very much limited to Yeah, this is a this is 689 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: a problem that you get a lot with like large 690 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: urban movements, Like I mean, so I run into Tianamen 691 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: all the time, where it's like, you know, okay, so Tianeman, 692 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: there's there's there's the big thing in Tianament. But this 693 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: happens like cities all over China, and there's just nothing. 694 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: There's like almost nothing that has ever sort of like 695 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: been written or has gotten out of what happened everywhere 696 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: else in the country. And so you get this, you 697 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: get this very myopic view of like what was happening 698 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: that I think loses a lot of the sort of 699 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: like I mean, a lot of the diversity and a 700 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: lot of the sort of you get a reality that 701 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: is shaped by the specific experience of one place, which 702 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: is not the safic experience of every other place, right exactly. 703 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: So like in the case of like Santiago and Cordona's right, 704 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: like the labor working class that's making up this is 705 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: factory labor, as we were saying, at the sort of 706 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: level of consumer products. Right. But say if you've had 707 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: a cordon and say about Craizo, uh, the sort of 708 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: coastal city of ports city, um, where you have a 709 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: much different labor force, right with doc workers things like that, 710 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: you're going to have a much different formation that's going 711 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 1: to take place. And so as much as like my 712 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: initial sort of attempt to understand the differences within the 713 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: geography of Santiago, um, you know, I think was important, 714 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: I always have to remind myself that, like, it's still 715 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: just this one city which is very different from the 716 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: experience of a vast majority of chual Ms. I mean, 717 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: it's definitely a moment in which you know, there is 718 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: still a very large rural population for sure, And I 719 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: guess like that that brings me to like, yeah, in 720 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: in terms of sort of okay, I guess there's two 721 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: directions here. One, I guess is about what is the like, 722 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: what is the rural population doing like while this is 723 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: going on. And the second one, well, I guess I 724 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: guess we could start there. Yeah, I mean, as we 725 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: sort of mentioned earlier, there isn't a growing reform that 726 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: is happening, right, And you are having a labor movement 727 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: that is picking up rapid steam in the countryside, right, 728 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: And you're having land seizures that is that are taking 729 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: place and picking up steam um. And so that's a 730 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: lot of what's going on in the countryside is UH 731 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: both UH an increase in land seizures UH and increasingly 732 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: militant land seizures. Is that, but you're also having UM 733 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 1: an increased unionization. Right. So the labor code in Chile 734 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: had a different set of regulations for rural labor than 735 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: it did for urban or factory labor, right. And so 736 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 1: one of the things that on the ill end a 737 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: period that we see is a sort of flourishing of 738 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: organized labor in the countryside. So you are having a 739 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 1: lot of party militants going out into the countryside as 740 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: well as UH labor leaders locally in the countryside. That 741 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: are organizing rural laborers. UM, so you are having mass 742 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: um union drives unfortunately. And I will be the first 743 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: admit that I am largely you know, and this is 744 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: a kind a consequence of like being an urban historian. 745 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: I am large really ignorance of the inner dynamics what 746 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: is happening on in the countryside. Um. Scholars like Florencia 747 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: Malon or Hydi Tinsman have both produced outstanding works on 748 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: this question, UM in terms of the relationship between land 749 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 1: seizures and gender and indigenosity. UM that is taking place 750 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: on the countryside. So I guess, yeah, so you know, okay, 751 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: so we yeah, we can't get to too much detail 752 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 1: on this, but I would would it be broadly like 753 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,799 Speaker 1: accurate to say that it's not true that you're dealing 754 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: with a situation where there's a huge sort of divide 755 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: in the level of mobilization organization between the city and 756 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,439 Speaker 1: rural regions like that. This this isn't like a sort 757 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 1: of like like you're not dealing with like like a 758 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: vonde peasant situation where you have this enormous sort of 759 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: reactionary base in the country. Right, Yeah, you know, you 760 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: definitely don't. Yeah, it's definitely not that UM. And you 761 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,720 Speaker 1: know there are attempts over the course of the Idenda years. 762 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: You know, the Mirror is one of the sort of 763 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 1: fronts that this is playing out in. But he in 764 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: the cordonates themselves, right. So, like one of the initial 765 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: UM rallies and sort of mobilizations of the Studios Maipu 766 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,319 Speaker 1: cordone is for UM the jailing and imprisonment of a 767 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: series of rural militants and rural labors that in the 768 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:23,800 Speaker 1: area of Malipia. UM. There are some activists and workers 769 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: that are jailed UH and those the cordon actually marches 770 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: into the city of Santiago, into the downtown part of 771 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: Santiago to demand their release. UM. And this is like 772 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: a disparate geography here that we're talking about, and so 773 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: UM it is you know, this is an instance in 774 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 1: which he's trying to see these sort of links be 775 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 1: both be made and strengthened between UH factory labor in 776 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: cities and world labor in the countryside. And I guess 777 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: it brings me to the second point, which is like, Okay, 778 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,799 Speaker 1: so there is a right in Chile and it is 779 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: not happy UM very much. Yeah, Yeah, And I guess 780 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: one of the things I guess I wanted to talk 781 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: about was so my my impression about a lot of 782 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: what is happening in three has to do with the 783 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 1: fact that Chile's like trucker's movement is really right wing, 784 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 1: and that that has well is a part of that. 785 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: Part of that is the CIA. Part of that is 786 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: just this like a like part of it is the 787 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: CIA's ability to keep striking truckers afloat and they're not 788 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,839 Speaker 1: working on. Part of it also is a consequence from 789 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,760 Speaker 1: this moment in October, right, in which the national business 790 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: elite and national economic elite in Chile transform that truckers 791 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: strike into the boss's strike. Right, So you do have 792 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: this alliance being formed and strengthened at that moment as well, 793 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: which will, as you're referring to invente, there is another 794 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 1: truck or strike that takes place that has even ben 795 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:05,279 Speaker 1: more crippling in some senses than the initial one. Yeah. 796 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: And then also also, as I will mention literally every time, 797 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: even though I I don't know if I can say 798 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:11,879 Speaker 1: that on air, but the part that I can say 799 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 1: on air is um, yeah, to their eternal, ignominious non glory. 800 00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: The a f l c I O is also heavily 801 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: involved in that, which is fun and good and uh 802 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: yeah A f l c I Oh, please stop overthrowing governments, 803 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:36,320 Speaker 1: helping deals. It's a very it's a very cio history 804 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: in relationship is actually very fascinating because during the dictatorship 805 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 1: they will actually be on the other side and actually 806 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: helping labor get back on its feet um and as 807 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 1: a key point of resistance, so they're UM in the 808 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: late nineties of these organizing a boycott of Chilant products, 809 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 1: which actually is a key point of pressure on the 810 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: dictatorship to begin allowing for new um for a sort 811 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,960 Speaker 1: of new labor movement to begin emerging. Yeah, which that 812 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: at some point, like I don't I don't think it 813 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: can happen here, but I just did the podcast name 814 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't don't think. I don't think it 815 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: can be this time. But like, yeahs at some point 816 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: I do want to take a deeper dive into sort 817 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,200 Speaker 1: of like what the a f l c I O 818 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,680 Speaker 1: was doing through this period, because they are like they're 819 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: all over like yeah, there's a fascinating history. Yeah, Like 820 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: I mean like you know, like my, my, my, my 821 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: last a fl C, what are you doing things for 822 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: this episode? Is so that the fl C has the 823 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,399 Speaker 1: policy where like they don't like they don't associate with 824 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: like like state union federations, and they make one exception 825 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: for it, and it's state Union Federation of the military 826 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: died katorship in South Korea, which is like it like 827 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 1: a good job, guys, like doing great here, this is 828 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,960 Speaker 1: going great. Yeah, but yeah, I guess can we can 829 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: we get into sort of the the crisis is that 830 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: like are the crisis is that like precipitate the end 831 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,359 Speaker 1: of and day? Totally? Yeah. So by this point, you know, 832 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: as I mentioned by nine, the opposition is largely um disarticulated. 833 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,399 Speaker 1: You have the National Party, you have the sort of 834 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: far right organization UM. That would be translated as fatherland 835 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 1: and Freedom Pot three. I delivered that, or I translated 836 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,359 Speaker 1: as father land and freedom because I think it has 837 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,480 Speaker 1: a better, it conjures it better. Others will translated as 838 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 1: fatherland and liberty, um. But I'm a sucker for a 839 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 1: literative forms, and so that's the translation that I use. 840 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,279 Speaker 1: I also think it conjures more of the sort of 841 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: fascistic elements which this very much was a fascist organization. UM. Yes, no, 842 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of you know lost Chicago boys 843 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 1: will have ties to pot threeliver to that. Um. And 844 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 1: so there have you know, rightist shock troops that are 845 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 1: fomenting conflicts in the streets, that are also setting off 846 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: bombs that are crippling the power grid, especially much later 847 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three. Um. But following that moment in 848 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, when the Populunity government has choose the 849 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 1: alliance with the Christian Democrats, the Christian that pushes the 850 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 1: Christian Democrats to begin forming an alliance with the National Party. 851 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,759 Speaker 1: And what happens then is that the left wing of 852 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: the Christian Democrats splits from that party to form its 853 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:32,279 Speaker 1: own party of Left Christians. But then the consequence of 854 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,080 Speaker 1: that is that that means that the more rightest elements 855 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,359 Speaker 1: of the Christian Democrat party can consolidate their power and 856 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,600 Speaker 1: stream their ties with the National power. So that by 857 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 1: you know, late nineteen seventy two, and very much by 858 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: the March nineteen seventy three elections, which were sort of 859 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 1: the key electoral moment that everyone was looking to. UM. 860 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: At this moment, um, you have a you have a 861 00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: solid alliance of the right UM. Now the end a 862 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 1: coalition will win the march elections UM. And that is 863 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:12,399 Speaker 1: really the moment that scholars agree that the switches sort 864 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,440 Speaker 1: of flipped for the opposition and they realize that they 865 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 1: can no longer defeat the popular UNI coalition at the 866 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 1: ballot box and that they now need to use extra 867 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:26,160 Speaker 1: constitutional means right and so they begin developing sort of 868 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 1: deploying the full force of those means UM. And here 869 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,240 Speaker 1: is a point where the role of gender is very important, 870 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,160 Speaker 1: because a lot of what the right will do will 871 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,840 Speaker 1: be to mobilize the power of the power and symbol 872 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:44,400 Speaker 1: of women protesting UM as a way to de legitimate 873 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: the end government and to de legitimate key figures UH 874 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: in the end administration. So earlier there is a key 875 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,799 Speaker 1: protest that happens, which is the March of angry pots UM. 876 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,040 Speaker 1: And this is a you know, a very traditional form 877 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,440 Speaker 1: of protests in Latin America which the castle Laza right, 878 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,440 Speaker 1: the sort of banging of pots and pans and protest UM. 879 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,239 Speaker 1: But the right organizes it to be largely carried out 880 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 1: by women as a way to protest what is seen 881 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,400 Speaker 1: as a m you know, a lack of supply of 882 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:22,239 Speaker 1: basic food necessities for UM families in Chile, which you know, 883 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,160 Speaker 1: we now know is a result of black market speculation 884 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,239 Speaker 1: in hoarding on a lot of the part of the 885 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,000 Speaker 1: sort of distribution centers controlled by the right. Nevertheless, they 886 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:37,680 Speaker 1: essentially use this symbol of women heads of households marching 887 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,920 Speaker 1: in the streets in opposition to END. So that's one 888 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,319 Speaker 1: thing that happens later in nineteen three, they will sort 889 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: of reuse this tactic and deploy women to protest in 890 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,839 Speaker 1: front of UM the houses of key military figures UM 891 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,400 Speaker 1: that are in the cabinet of end At this point, 892 00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 1: this will enforce the resignation of some of these figures 893 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,279 Speaker 1: from the Allende cabinet. And then one of the key 894 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,680 Speaker 1: figures that has then replaced in the cabinet is none 895 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,040 Speaker 1: other than a coost okin at Chat. It will be 896 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,239 Speaker 1: welcomed into the cabinet, and specifically will be welcomed into 897 00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: the cabinet because he's seen as a strict constitutionalist in 898 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,839 Speaker 1: the Chilean military UH and is not seen as any 899 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,000 Speaker 1: sort of threat to what is going on. Meanwhile, in 900 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,360 Speaker 1: late June of nineteen seventy three, there is an attempted 901 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: coup that takes place in whence you have a rogue 902 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:36,240 Speaker 1: regiment of the Chilean Army UM deploying tanks in front 903 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,360 Speaker 1: of Lamlada of the presidential Palace in Santiago. UH, that 904 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,440 Speaker 1: is large that is put down. It's also one of 905 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,080 Speaker 1: the last moments that the cord donates themselves will mobilize 906 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,799 Speaker 1: and that all the Coredonats in Santiago will seize their territories, 907 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,359 Speaker 1: erect barricade, it's cut off transportation to prevent any sort 908 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,680 Speaker 1: of large scale coup from taking place. Essentially to try 909 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,959 Speaker 1: and isolate that regiment just within front of La Meta 910 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,960 Speaker 1: to allow for the wings of the armed forces that 911 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: are still loyal to the president at this point to 912 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: put that down. So that has put down. And then 913 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,840 Speaker 1: in between late in June nine seventy three and September 914 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 1: seventy three is what scholars, specifically Peter Winn for two, 915 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: is a creeping coup begins to take place. And the 916 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,560 Speaker 1: creeping coup has you know, a multi fastest strategy. As 917 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, there is the bombing of electrical grids, 918 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,400 Speaker 1: so you have you know, increasing blackouts, instability, things of 919 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: that nature, right, fearmongering in very real sense palpable senses. UM. 920 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,680 Speaker 1: You also have a shake up amongst different members of 921 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:49,160 Speaker 1: different branches of the armed forces, which those that are 922 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,439 Speaker 1: loyal to the constitution, that are the constitutionalists, are pushed out, 923 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,759 Speaker 1: and as a result, then you have the coup plotters 924 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 1: that are ready to essentially overthrow the government. UM achieved 925 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,760 Speaker 1: positions of authority in which that they can give orders, 926 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,200 Speaker 1: and this is a key factor. This may seem like 927 00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,440 Speaker 1: a small factor, but the Chilean military had historically been 928 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,920 Speaker 1: trained in the Prussian model of military training, rights was 929 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:21,719 Speaker 1: a very strict regimented hierarchical structure in which historically had 930 00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,360 Speaker 1: been very loyal within that hierarchy. So it was important 931 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: that the coup plotters would achieve positions of higher authority 932 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,240 Speaker 1: to be able to actually effectuate a coup, especially after 933 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: the attempted coup fails in June. So on the morning 934 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: of September eleven nine, UM, you have hawker hunter jets 935 00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 1: that again bombing the presidential palace UH, and you have 936 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,719 Speaker 1: a deployment of UM military forces throughout the city to 937 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,879 Speaker 1: put down any sort of armed force or any sort 938 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:58,080 Speaker 1: of resistance. Right leading up to this moment you had 939 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,880 Speaker 1: deployments of both the Chilean militarized Police, the Kada Bows, 940 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,520 Speaker 1: which are actually functionally militaries. They're part of the armed 941 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,759 Speaker 1: forces in Chile. It's not just militarized in the sense 942 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,600 Speaker 1: of tactics and weaponry to raid factories in the search 943 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,840 Speaker 1: of arms, right, things of that nature. So you already 944 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,880 Speaker 1: had UM this sort of daily occurrence taking place. In 945 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,440 Speaker 1: a consequence of that, right, is that then these forces 946 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: know the weak spots in these factories, they know the 947 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:30,040 Speaker 1: capabilities of these factories and things like that. Uh. Cordleon 948 00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,960 Speaker 1: Vacuna Mcano will actually be the place that will witness 949 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,440 Speaker 1: some of the fiercest fighting of what would be referred 950 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,799 Speaker 1: to as the Battle of Santiago. You know, often when 951 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,680 Speaker 1: we talk about the Chilean coup, we talked about strictly 952 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,280 Speaker 1: a September eleventh, ninety three. UM. The Battle of Santiago 953 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,200 Speaker 1: actually rages for a few days after September eleventh. It's 954 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,640 Speaker 1: not just a quick um you know, in and out 955 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: mission there is there is there are forms of resistance 956 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,960 Speaker 1: that take place. UM and the Kunamacina is one of 957 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,000 Speaker 1: the places that this takes place. There are two Chilean 958 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:07,600 Speaker 1: historians Mario Garcet's and Sebastian Laba that published a masterful, 959 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,239 Speaker 1: wonderful book UM that is all about as UM called 960 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,759 Speaker 1: the kun La Laga and Laga was a historic poplacion 961 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,400 Speaker 1: that was just to the west of the Pocuna Macina 962 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,960 Speaker 1: factory and the workers of factories in Pecuna Macana, specifically 963 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,560 Speaker 1: the Sumar textile mill that we mentioned earlier. UM will 964 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:30,560 Speaker 1: essentially lead UM a march gathering other workers, saving those 965 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 1: that they can, and essentially holding their ground for as 966 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,160 Speaker 1: long as they can in the Popla la lagoa. Uh. 967 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,320 Speaker 1: In fact, I have some testimonies of workers and documents 968 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,480 Speaker 1: that I've uncovered. UM. One worker in particular described the 969 00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 1: battle that raged there is as being like hell on earth. UM. 970 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,160 Speaker 1: That they had helicopters firing from the sky, they had 971 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:56,360 Speaker 1: tanks surrounding them. UM. So they were under fire from 972 00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:02,480 Speaker 1: both the land and the air, and ultimately then the 973 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,480 Speaker 1: government is overthrown, right UM I end. It's unclear to 974 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,960 Speaker 1: this day if I end a committed suicide, if he 975 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,920 Speaker 1: was killed, we just we don't know. We do know 976 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 1: that he refused to leave the presidential palace. We do 977 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,760 Speaker 1: know that he delivers one final address, very famous address 978 00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:23,840 Speaker 1: UM over the radio of Chile. UM. And then after 979 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,800 Speaker 1: that week we know that that his corpse UM appears 980 00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,800 Speaker 1: in a lot of the materials that the military will 981 00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,080 Speaker 1: put out. Military takes control of communication networks. Many of 982 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,160 Speaker 1: the communication networks and press networks were already controlled by 983 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,240 Speaker 1: the right UM, so it's very easy for them to 984 00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,800 Speaker 1: gain access to these methods UM to sort of spread 985 00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,160 Speaker 1: their message UM. And this is where things, you know, 986 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,600 Speaker 1: historically speaking, get very interesting in the difference between our 987 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,920 Speaker 1: sort of UM conventional wisdom and what actually took place 988 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,280 Speaker 1: or takes place. Right. The original structure of the military 989 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:07,120 Speaker 1: junta that takes command was designed as a tripartite structure 990 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,600 Speaker 1: that would rotate amongst different branches of the armed forces 991 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:15,920 Speaker 1: to prevent precisely what happens with the figure of Gusto 992 00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:22,200 Speaker 1: Pinochet taking power himself to prevent such a thing from happening. Right. Uh. Ultimately, though, 993 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,040 Speaker 1: over the course of the nine seventies, you have Pinot 994 00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:28,320 Speaker 1: Chick consolidating power. Uh. In fact, if you've ever seen 995 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,440 Speaker 1: the image of him that's sitting cross armed with the 996 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,880 Speaker 1: sunglasses on, it's like one of the most recognizable photos 997 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,280 Speaker 1: of him from this time. That photo is actually the 998 00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,960 Speaker 1: actual original version of the photo. You have the full 999 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:46,400 Speaker 1: junta behind him taking a picture. Yeah. Yeah, And it's 1000 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,240 Speaker 1: not so much even he did it, but it's that 1001 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,320 Speaker 1: that photo just over time became so associated with him 1002 00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,120 Speaker 1: because of such a jarring image of him sitting there. 1003 00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:59,600 Speaker 1: UM that it it's sort of functionally recreated the sort 1004 00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:03,440 Speaker 1: of per ching that Heat takes that he'll carry out essentially. 1005 01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,440 Speaker 1: You know. Also, what they will do immediately is that 1006 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:11,240 Speaker 1: they will close the Congress, They will dissolve the COOT, 1007 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the National Labor Federation that we discussed earlier, uh, and 1008 01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:20,840 Speaker 1: they will essentially dissolve the um conciliation councils that oversawing 1009 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,040 Speaker 1: sort of collective bargaining. They will freeze any sort of 1010 01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,960 Speaker 1: petitions pleegos from factory labors, and they will begin to 1011 01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:35,080 Speaker 1: purge labor leaders across both the national spectrum of labor 1012 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,800 Speaker 1: leadership as well as you know, through the course of 1013 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,800 Speaker 1: nine and well into ninety five, will be begin purging 1014 01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:48,480 Speaker 1: factory level leaderships. UM. They will institutionalized torture, UM, they 1015 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:55,000 Speaker 1: will institutionalized forced disappearance, and all of these things UM 1016 01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,680 Speaker 1: constitute how they're essentially able to hold onto power. In 1017 01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,160 Speaker 1: those early days, there's a state of see has declared, 1018 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:06,160 Speaker 1: which means that all civil liberties um have essentially been suspended. 1019 01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 1: And all of this is in the name of national security, 1020 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:14,640 Speaker 1: and that's really the key thing UM. And so everything 1021 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,560 Speaker 1: from the labor movement is shut down, um, and then 1022 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,640 Speaker 1: it will begin to re emerge. And that's really like 1023 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:24,000 Speaker 1: where I think my research and my dissertation. Another key 1024 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,960 Speaker 1: intervention that that I'm trying to make is that you know, 1025 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,080 Speaker 1: three wasn't the end of the story, Like, yes, it 1026 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,080 Speaker 1: was the end of the Corsons induced to gods with 1027 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,120 Speaker 1: a capital C and a capital I. But the idea 1028 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,680 Speaker 1: of the territorial labor organization will re emerge in the 1029 01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,400 Speaker 1: late nineteen seventies and in the nineteen eighties when protests 1030 01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:55,000 Speaker 1: against the dictatorship began to flourish. And this is something 1031 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,680 Speaker 1: that I mean, I guess this is start projecting into 1032 01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:58,840 Speaker 1: the future. But it's something that I was I don't 1033 01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:03,000 Speaker 1: know the taking button I don't quite know how to 1034 01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,760 Speaker 1: think about, which is the connection between like can we 1035 01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,160 Speaker 1: draw a line between the Cardonis the sort of the 1036 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:15,520 Speaker 1: pro democracy movement that eventually, like through Pinochet's incompetence and 1037 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: their skill like brings down the dictatorship and the stain 1038 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,439 Speaker 1: the the really vibrant like me really for the last 1039 01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:30,520 Speaker 1: like twenty years, like incredibly vibrant sort of like student protests, 1040 01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,880 Speaker 1: but I mean just just sort of like like leftist 1041 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,840 Speaker 1: street movements in Chile, because I mean, like I don't know, 1042 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:40,040 Speaker 1: like I guess the impression that I got when I 1043 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:47,520 Speaker 1: was talking to like the Chilean organizers was that like 1044 01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,360 Speaker 1: organized labor wasn't playing much of a role in this, 1045 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:54,640 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I guess I was just wondering, like 1046 01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,840 Speaker 1: how how how do we think about sort of this trajectory. 1047 01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,720 Speaker 1: And I know this is like fifty years, but no, 1048 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:02,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean my dissertation is trying to to 1049 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:07,000 Speaker 1: the sort of branch this full trajectory and is a beautiful, 1050 01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,480 Speaker 1: wonderful question. Um, And you're right, you know, the the 1051 01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,560 Speaker 1: activists that you spoke to. Um, that is a very 1052 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,960 Speaker 1: common um, commonly held view. And it's a commonly held 1053 01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,320 Speaker 1: view for a couple of reasons. One is that one 1054 01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,240 Speaker 1: of the what is seen is one of the main 1055 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:26,400 Speaker 1: protagonists in the pro democracy movements that take place in 1056 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,960 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties are precisely those figures we talked about 1057 01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,680 Speaker 1: at the very beginning of our conversation. The Popolodorus. The 1058 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:37,520 Speaker 1: Poplodorus are seen as the protagonists that protests the dictatorship, 1059 01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,600 Speaker 1: largely because they are right. This is I'm not trying 1060 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,440 Speaker 1: to say that they were not by any means, They 1061 01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:45,720 Speaker 1: clearly were. Um. We have great studies of this. Kathy 1062 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:50,040 Speaker 1: Schneider's book Shantytown Protests and Pa Chile is just a 1063 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:55,200 Speaker 1: wonderful study of this. Um, they were protagonists, and the 1064 01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,520 Speaker 1: geographic space, the site of the Pope lacon Is is 1065 01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,520 Speaker 1: where a lot of the protests are going down. Um. 1066 01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:08,120 Speaker 1: But labor did play a part, and labor did play 1067 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,400 Speaker 1: a key part. And this is part of my argument 1068 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,280 Speaker 1: is that not only does labor play a part, labor 1069 01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:19,120 Speaker 1: plays a key part in initiating the protests that begin 1070 01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,000 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties. Now, by the late nineteen eighties, 1071 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,760 Speaker 1: the there people are certainly right that labor is no 1072 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,320 Speaker 1: longer anything close to the power it was pre nineteen 1073 01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,360 Speaker 1: seventy three or even earlier in that decade by any means. 1074 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,600 Speaker 1: But in the late nineteen seventies and the early nineteen eighties, 1075 01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,840 Speaker 1: specifically in the space of a kunamakina, and workers that 1076 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:47,680 Speaker 1: are coming out of that tradition play incredibly instrumental and 1077 01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,480 Speaker 1: key roles. So, for example, there's a gentleman Manuel boost Dots. 1078 01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,360 Speaker 1: It's a member of the Christian Democratic Party. He's a 1079 01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,120 Speaker 1: worker at the Sumar Textile mill in the cotton plants. Specifically, 1080 01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,280 Speaker 1: he will UM at the time become president of Sumars 1081 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:06,000 Speaker 1: Cotton's Union. He will then go on to along with 1082 01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:10,440 Speaker 1: other labor leaders, found the National Union Coordinator where the 1083 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,440 Speaker 1: c N s you will become president of that, and 1084 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,600 Speaker 1: he will become one of the key figures along with 1085 01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:22,240 Speaker 1: other labor leaders that will initiate and lead to the 1086 01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:25,520 Speaker 1: pro democracy protests that begin in the early nineteen eighties, 1087 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:30,920 Speaker 1: so much so that he is UM at one point relegated, 1088 01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,240 Speaker 1: which this is a way one of the tactics the 1089 01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:39,160 Speaker 1: military used UM would be to relegate uh perceived agitators 1090 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:43,439 Speaker 1: or provocateurs two different parts of the country right out 1091 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,280 Speaker 1: of Stay Santiago. In the case of Bustos So at 1092 01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:48,360 Speaker 1: one point he is relegated to the far north of 1093 01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,840 Speaker 1: the country. He's also exiled at a certain point. He's 1094 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,400 Speaker 1: also jailed at a certain point. Um. So even if 1095 01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,720 Speaker 1: we you know, even if we don't look at the 1096 01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:01,040 Speaker 1: archival record in terms of what Bustos saying, what Bustos 1097 01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:03,800 Speaker 1: is doing, if we just look at what the military 1098 01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:07,720 Speaker 1: is doing to Bustos and to his colleagues in the CNS, 1099 01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,760 Speaker 1: then we that should tell us that they perceived them 1100 01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:16,200 Speaker 1: as a legitimate threat, and that they perceive labor as 1101 01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:20,320 Speaker 1: a legitimate threat. And this really, you know, explains why 1102 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,840 Speaker 1: you have a shift in um, the dictatorship's policies with 1103 01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,480 Speaker 1: regard to labor between the early nineteen seventies the late 1104 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,680 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and eighties. So here I'm drawing a lot 1105 01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,360 Speaker 1: on the work of Rodriro Araya, who is a scholar 1106 01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,680 Speaker 1: here in Chile who has done a great deal in 1107 01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,920 Speaker 1: showing that early in the dictatorship you had a series 1108 01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,640 Speaker 1: of labor leaders who were opposed to Allende, who were 1109 01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,480 Speaker 1: still labor right, still pro labor, but anti Laftist and 1110 01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,320 Speaker 1: anti Allende, who take control of some of the key 1111 01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:58,680 Speaker 1: labor federations, namely the Copper Federation, and begin to sort 1112 01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:04,520 Speaker 1: of insignate themselves as the key figures of labor. Um 1113 01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,960 Speaker 1: and there's an attempt then by the dictatorship to essentially 1114 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:12,360 Speaker 1: make a corporatist model of labor and integrate them and 1115 01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:17,280 Speaker 1: control them from the top down. UM. Ultimately that backfires 1116 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,520 Speaker 1: because in doing so, they the military refuses to recognize 1117 01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,960 Speaker 1: some of these individuals and instill their own um sort 1118 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,800 Speaker 1: of puppets, if you will, their own labor leaders, which 1119 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,840 Speaker 1: then causes resentment, which then pushes that group to an 1120 01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:37,600 Speaker 1: oppositional stance UM, which then allows for more connective tissue, 1121 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,760 Speaker 1: more connections to be made between that group, which would 1122 01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,400 Speaker 1: be loosely referred to as the Group of ten UH 1123 01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,240 Speaker 1: and individuals such as Bustos and others that are forming 1124 01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:50,600 Speaker 1: this National Union Coordinator. Those two groups will ultimately, in 1125 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,720 Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties form a new group, which is 1126 01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,920 Speaker 1: the National Workers Command UM. And this actually group is 1127 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:02,240 Speaker 1: formed at a point in which Bustos himself has been 1128 01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,880 Speaker 1: exiled out of the country. UM. So you know, there's 1129 01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,200 Speaker 1: a debate to be had whether or not the formation 1130 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,960 Speaker 1: of the command was an attempt to consolidate control away 1131 01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:15,760 Speaker 1: from the Union Coordinator and Bustos, which was much more 1132 01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,680 Speaker 1: open to working with members of the left and the communists. 1133 01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,000 Speaker 1: At the time compared to the say of the Group 1134 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,400 Speaker 1: of ten who you know, we're much more opposed to 1135 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,000 Speaker 1: working with leftists. Um. So that's really you know, one 1136 01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:32,080 Speaker 1: of the big differences between labor and a pre nineteen 1137 01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,759 Speaker 1: seventy three period and a post nineteen seventy three period 1138 01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,360 Speaker 1: is there's still a struggle for labor rights, protection of 1139 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:44,200 Speaker 1: workers in unionism, right to strike, right to collectively bargain. 1140 01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,280 Speaker 1: But what's missing in that post nineteen seventy three period, 1141 01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:52,000 Speaker 1: or rather what has been murdered, disappeared, tortured executed by 1142 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:57,000 Speaker 1: the dictatorship, is a theory of power for unions right 1143 01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,760 Speaker 1: the sort of leftist influence. You know, you could call 1144 01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,720 Speaker 1: it Marxism, Leninism, you can call it sort of a 1145 01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:09,000 Speaker 1: social democracy, but some theory of power that animated unionism 1146 01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,599 Speaker 1: and animated the labor movement in the pre nineteen seventy 1147 01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:17,040 Speaker 1: three period, that is is essentially been purged over that 1148 01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:21,160 Speaker 1: course of the nineteen seventies into the nineteen eighties. Um. 1149 01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,720 Speaker 1: But in addition to these sort of national level developments, 1150 01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,599 Speaker 1: which you know, for me boostos is the straight line 1151 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,840 Speaker 1: that connects the territory of Kuna mccana to this national 1152 01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:34,800 Speaker 1: level within Vucuna Mcina itself. You have two groups that 1153 01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,559 Speaker 1: begin to emerge in the late nineteen seventies nineteen eighties. 1154 01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:42,320 Speaker 1: The first would be the solidarity group UH, and then 1155 01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:46,360 Speaker 1: the second would be Union Unity. And both of these 1156 01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:52,160 Speaker 1: new organizations emerging of Kunamericana and emerged specifically as territorial 1157 01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:58,040 Speaker 1: organizations of labor. So they are in opposition too what 1158 01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:01,240 Speaker 1: Boostos and others are trying to do, which is reform 1159 01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:06,040 Speaker 1: the sort of national labor hierarchy, hierarchy bureaucratic or the 1160 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:10,679 Speaker 1: bureaucratic excuse me approach to labor. They're specifically a post 1161 01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:13,480 Speaker 1: to that and are arguing that labor should be organized 1162 01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:18,160 Speaker 1: territorially because it allows a greater flexibility for the workers 1163 01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:23,080 Speaker 1: to respond to the new realities of a dictatorship and 1164 01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:27,439 Speaker 1: specifically to the new realities of the new constitution that 1165 01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,720 Speaker 1: the dictatorship puts in place in as well as the 1166 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,960 Speaker 1: new labor plan that they put in place through a 1167 01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,559 Speaker 1: series of laws in the late nineteen seventies in early 1168 01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:43,080 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties that severely curtail labor's ability to both organize. So, 1169 01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,880 Speaker 1: for example, the closed shop is essentially done away with 1170 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:52,240 Speaker 1: UH they also UM will limit the ability to strike. 1171 01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:58,320 Speaker 1: You can you can strike. However, after thirty days, UM 1172 01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:04,240 Speaker 1: the management and begin hiring scab labors essentially to break 1173 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,320 Speaker 1: the strike. And if a strike lasted past sixty days, 1174 01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:10,960 Speaker 1: that the management was allowed to fire all of striking 1175 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,360 Speaker 1: workers because after sixty days they were considered to have 1176 01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:18,000 Speaker 1: walked off the job and we're no longer considered employees. Also, 1177 01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:22,000 Speaker 1: one of the key you know innovations that the sort 1178 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,080 Speaker 1: of technocratic advisors to the dictatorship as UM implements in 1179 01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,680 Speaker 1: the new Labor Code is the individual labor contract right, 1180 01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:36,040 Speaker 1: which means that workers now are contracted individually, which also 1181 01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,400 Speaker 1: then prevents any sort of national level union from bargaining 1182 01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:44,080 Speaker 1: on behalf of a sector wide or an industry wide contract. 1183 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:46,960 Speaker 1: That is no longer allowed. And so it's for all 1184 01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:50,000 Speaker 1: of those reasons that you have these two groups begin 1185 01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,280 Speaker 1: to emerge and saying no, we need to focus our 1186 01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:55,440 Speaker 1: efforts on the base, we need to focus them territorially. 1187 01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,400 Speaker 1: And for me, that is a straight line between the 1188 01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:01,800 Speaker 1: legacy of the cordonists and what we're seeing in the 1189 01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,360 Speaker 1: and then the other sort of discursive straight line, like 1190 01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:09,040 Speaker 1: if that's the material connection. The discursive straight line is 1191 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:13,000 Speaker 1: that these organizations are using the discourse of dignity and 1192 01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:16,240 Speaker 1: dignified life in the extant source material that we have. 1193 01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:18,679 Speaker 1: That makes sense, and I think that also, But that also, 1194 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:24,439 Speaker 1: I guess partly explains why, like why organized labor like 1195 01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,120 Speaker 1: ceases after that point, because I guess it is just 1196 01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:32,200 Speaker 1: sort of like the it's the sort of the annilable 1197 01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,639 Speaker 1: shifts in what's happening in terms of the actual law. 1198 01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,680 Speaker 1: And then actually, I don't know, I guess I just 1199 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,960 Speaker 1: should ask about this, like is there also a sort 1200 01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,160 Speaker 1: of like that, do you also get a sort of 1201 01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:50,280 Speaker 1: like like another sort of geographic shift in in how 1202 01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:55,280 Speaker 1: factories are distributed? Like through the use totally you have 1203 01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,720 Speaker 1: essentially a d industrialization, a policy of the industrialization, and 1204 01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:01,519 Speaker 1: you have a total reversion to what we can think 1205 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:07,040 Speaker 1: of as a nineteenth century economic export economy UM for Chile. Right, 1206 01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:11,600 Speaker 1: so you have much more focus and investment into commodity 1207 01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:16,640 Speaker 1: exports be it UM, the fishing sector, the agricultural sector, 1208 01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:18,640 Speaker 1: things like that. Right, So, like for example, if you 1209 01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,200 Speaker 1: go into your grocery store, uh and look at some 1210 01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:25,000 Speaker 1: of the fruits specifically, say grapes, more often than not, 1211 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,800 Speaker 1: they're going to come from Chile, especially in off seasons. Right. 1212 01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:31,920 Speaker 1: The benefit of Chile being in the southern hemisphere, for say, 1213 01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,000 Speaker 1: consumers in the United States is that then you have 1214 01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,720 Speaker 1: access to things that you wouldn't have access to otherwise. UH. 1215 01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:42,920 Speaker 1: And so the dictatorship will prioritize this UM over the 1216 01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,720 Speaker 1: idea of industry. So you have a total reversion to 1217 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:52,760 Speaker 1: UM importing goods and services that would have been produced 1218 01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,400 Speaker 1: nationally or locally UM. And so what this means then 1219 01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,719 Speaker 1: for a lot of the labor that happens in these zones, 1220 01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:04,559 Speaker 1: right as you have mass layoffs, that's another innovation UM 1221 01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:07,960 Speaker 1: that the dictatorship and the Chicago Boys will introduce as 1222 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,599 Speaker 1: the ability for management to fire UM at a mass 1223 01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:16,479 Speaker 1: level and have that be legal UM. And so you 1224 01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:22,080 Speaker 1: have high you have skyrocketing unemployment amongst factory label labor, 1225 01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:26,040 Speaker 1: such that like yes, by the nineteen eighties have a 1226 01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:30,840 Speaker 1: refounding of a national labor confederation, also the acronym being 1227 01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,160 Speaker 1: the COOT. The difference, however, is that it's under such 1228 01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:38,400 Speaker 1: a much different labor framework. It's also in a situation 1229 01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:41,320 Speaker 1: in which industrial labor is just not the main sector 1230 01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:45,439 Speaker 1: of labor uh. And in its founding statutes, if the 1231 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,920 Speaker 1: coup pre nineteen seventy three was identified as the only 1232 01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:54,519 Speaker 1: national labor confederation, the statutes poste and in the late 1233 01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,559 Speaker 1: eighties when it's reformed, allows for there to be other 1234 01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:01,080 Speaker 1: national confederations. Um. And Actually, this is one of the 1235 01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,400 Speaker 1: great debates that takes place between those organizations at the 1236 01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:10,560 Speaker 1: base Infocuamkina and these national level organizations is whether or 1237 01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,560 Speaker 1: not there should be one labor confederation, or whether or 1238 01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,920 Speaker 1: not there should be many different labor confederations organized all 1239 01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:20,800 Speaker 1: on ideological lines, which is essentially a code word for 1240 01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:25,479 Speaker 1: anti communism. Right. The the idea of the ideological labor 1241 01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,880 Speaker 1: central was a way to exclude the left from gaining 1242 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,160 Speaker 1: control in organized labor like it had in the pre 1243 01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:36,479 Speaker 1: nineties period. And so by the dawn of nineteen nineties, 1244 01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:40,920 Speaker 1: when democracy, or rather when democratic elections returned to Chile, 1245 01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:46,400 Speaker 1: you have labor in a much different position. Uh. And 1246 01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:51,439 Speaker 1: that's why you have this very weakening um series or 1247 01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:55,559 Speaker 1: period under the Concerts government, the ruling coalition, the governing 1248 01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,600 Speaker 1: coalition that takes power in Patricia Apo and winning the 1249 01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,800 Speaker 1: president and see um, it's just much different and it's 1250 01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,880 Speaker 1: it's strait jacket illegally because the ninety eight constitution is 1251 01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,479 Speaker 1: still in place, right, it's still in place to this day. Uh. 1252 01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,559 Speaker 1: And that's actually been it's the period of concert test 1253 01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,719 Speaker 1: That is the period where you really have the most 1254 01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:21,920 Speaker 1: weakening of um labor. It's also the period we have 1255 01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:26,000 Speaker 1: the most privatizations that are taking place of former state 1256 01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,080 Speaker 1: blewned companies. It's we could say that it's the period 1257 01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:33,920 Speaker 1: that is the most neoliberal period uh in Chile relative 1258 01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:41,679 Speaker 1: to the civilian the period of civilian military dictatorship. Yeah. 1259 01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,439 Speaker 1: And I guess that's sort of like that that that's 1260 01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:48,600 Speaker 1: the thing that it just gets you to, well, the 1261 01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:52,200 Speaker 1: last sort of twenty years of like of student led 1262 01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,920 Speaker 1: protests and of sort of ecological protests. I mean, I 1263 01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,680 Speaker 1: guess you like thempuche have always been like fighting, but 1264 01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:03,519 Speaker 1: the way that oh from from Spanish clone the only 1265 01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:07,040 Speaker 1: indigenous group that was never conquered by the Spanish. Yeah, 1266 01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,440 Speaker 1: but I guess, but I guess like like the axis 1267 01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,880 Speaker 1: on which the left is sort of like built on 1268 01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:17,719 Speaker 1: like through that period just shifts, and that's I guess 1269 01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,600 Speaker 1: where you get the modern Like that the sort of 1270 01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:23,479 Speaker 1: modern like configuration of the left that's been in the 1271 01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:26,360 Speaker 1: streets and last sort of like you do. And this 1272 01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,120 Speaker 1: is a This is the reason why I sort of 1273 01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 1: draw a hard line ending my study in for two reasons. 1274 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,600 Speaker 1: One is that it's the is. The first is the 1275 01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:42,920 Speaker 1: election of Pinetta to the presidency, Sebastian Pinietta as his 1276 01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,880 Speaker 1: first term in and so that's the first moment that 1277 01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,400 Speaker 1: someone from the concert cast n is not elected as 1278 01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:55,519 Speaker 1: the president they had governed sent from so um. That's 1279 01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,719 Speaker 1: really the what Peter Win and other scholars have referred 1280 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,360 Speaker 1: to as the pinotch Chick period, which extends all the 1281 01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:05,160 Speaker 1: way from nineteen seventy three to that moment, is inclusive 1282 01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:10,280 Speaker 1: of the Concerts government because of fair um adherence to 1283 01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:14,040 Speaker 1: the neoliberal economic model. Um. That's when that period ends. 1284 01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:17,840 Speaker 1: In Also a year later in eleven is when the 1285 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:22,400 Speaker 1: student protests, and that's when you have a new cycle 1286 01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:26,799 Speaker 1: in Chilean social movements led by the students. Right prior, 1287 01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:31,519 Speaker 1: you know, post the return of democracy again, the return 1288 01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,760 Speaker 1: of democratic elections in nineteen ninety. I think this is 1289 01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:37,040 Speaker 1: a very important distinction between a return to democracy and 1290 01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:39,800 Speaker 1: a return of democratic elections, which seems to be a 1291 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:44,040 Speaker 1: confusion between not a confusion but a flippage between the 1292 01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:47,000 Speaker 1: form of democracy, a free and fair elections, and the 1293 01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:51,760 Speaker 1: content of democracy. UM. And so a lot of people 1294 01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,760 Speaker 1: referred to nineteen nine the return to democracy. But I 1295 01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,840 Speaker 1: think that the past thirty years of governments in Chile 1296 01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,120 Speaker 1: shows us, especially the past two years of uprising and 1297 01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:07,080 Speaker 1: resistance against that model, show us that democracy has yet 1298 01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:11,360 Speaker 1: to fully return. Um. But in that period, you know, 1299 01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:16,160 Speaker 1: in the nine nineties on street protests were not seeing 1300 01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:21,760 Speaker 1: as an affected effective measure um as a as as 1301 01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:25,360 Speaker 1: the way to protest. Right. They obviously were effective in 1302 01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:30,559 Speaker 1: the period of dictatorship um. But after that there's no 1303 01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:34,679 Speaker 1: there there's a nut not necessarily discrediting of sorts, right, 1304 01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,360 Speaker 1: but there's not the emphasis on them that there was 1305 01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:41,240 Speaker 1: during the dictatorship, and certainly not that there was in 1306 01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:44,240 Speaker 1: the pre nineteen seven three period. It's not until the 1307 01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,920 Speaker 1: students take to the streets inven that you have this 1308 01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,919 Speaker 1: revival of the street protest as a as a viable 1309 01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:56,000 Speaker 1: form um of resistance and protests in Chile. And you know, 1310 01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,200 Speaker 1: and it's no surprise then that in October twenty nineteen, 1311 01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:03,479 Speaker 1: when the s E though the uprising takes place that 1312 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:08,800 Speaker 1: it's students where once again the vanguard of this UM 1313 01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,640 Speaker 1: and you know when they're jumping turnstiles in the subways too, 1314 01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,280 Speaker 1: in protest of proposed transportation hike. UM I was. I 1315 01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:19,759 Speaker 1: was actually luckily enough to be living here in early 1316 01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,519 Speaker 1: pandemic UM and a lot of people that I spoke 1317 01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:27,519 Speaker 1: to UM at protests and things like that, were very 1318 01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,240 Speaker 1: quick to tell me that it was not thirty pos 1319 01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:35,600 Speaker 1: it's thirty years that they were protesting. Yeah, and you know, 1320 01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:39,559 Speaker 1: and I guess that also, like the left wing forces 1321 01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,080 Speaker 1: that took over the state, like it's it's it's the 1322 01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:45,160 Speaker 1: reason why a lot of that wounds up sort of 1323 01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:48,679 Speaker 1: being about the Constitution because yeah, you know, you still 1324 01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:55,240 Speaker 1: have this, you still have Pinochet's like exactly, and constition 1325 01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,760 Speaker 1: remains in fact. Yeah, yeah, and how can I I 1326 01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:00,559 Speaker 1: used to know him of this and of the other episodes. 1327 01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:02,120 Speaker 1: I think, I think like the guy who wrote it 1328 01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:05,599 Speaker 1: like it was like an enormous hyak fanboy and called 1329 01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,320 Speaker 1: it like the Constitution of liberty or something. Yeah, it was. 1330 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,479 Speaker 1: It was a hand It was a hand selected team 1331 01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,880 Speaker 1: of very few individuals that was handpicked by the dictatorship 1332 01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:19,360 Speaker 1: to write the constitution. Um. You know, there was the 1333 01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:24,200 Speaker 1: there was a veneer of democratic support insofar as the 1334 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:28,640 Speaker 1: dictatorship in nineteen eighty holds a referendum on whether or 1335 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,680 Speaker 1: not to vote up, down, yes or no for the 1336 01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:38,160 Speaker 1: new Constitution. Right um, the yes vote one. However, there 1337 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:42,919 Speaker 1: is many sources at the time as well as scholars 1338 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:46,400 Speaker 1: that have claimed that that victory was not a valid 1339 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:54,439 Speaker 1: victory um by any means. UM. But you know, right now, 1340 01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:58,439 Speaker 1: in the post twenty nineteen period, um a sort of 1341 01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:02,040 Speaker 1: effect the uprising that took places, there is a constitutional 1342 01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:07,040 Speaker 1: convention that's taking place as we speak here in Santiago, UM. 1343 01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:10,920 Speaker 1: That's headquartered in the former National Congress. During the dictatorship, 1344 01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:15,000 Speaker 1: the h Congress has moved to the ports city of 1345 01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,639 Speaker 1: the Appraiso away from Santiago, but in the old National 1346 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,840 Speaker 1: Congress building is where the New Constitution convention has taken place. 1347 01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,920 Speaker 1: And actually two nights ago there was a marathon voting 1348 01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:30,120 Speaker 1: session in which a series of social rights were adopted 1349 01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:32,720 Speaker 1: into the cost into the text of the new Constitution. 1350 01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:36,080 Speaker 1: And these social rights included, among other things, the right 1351 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:40,839 Speaker 1: to unionization, the right to strike, the right to collectively bargain, 1352 01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:45,120 Speaker 1: the right for workers via unions, to have a say 1353 01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:49,640 Speaker 1: in the direction and business of an enterprise, of a 1354 01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:54,200 Speaker 1: business itself, to participate in management essentially. But it also 1355 01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:57,719 Speaker 1: included things such as a right to healthcare publicly funded 1356 01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:02,080 Speaker 1: healthcare system, the right to social security publicly funded and 1357 01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:07,519 Speaker 1: it included a right to housing, which specifically included the 1358 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:11,599 Speaker 1: phrase of a right to a dignified, adequate home, as 1359 01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,120 Speaker 1: well as a right to the city that included the 1360 01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,280 Speaker 1: phrase that the right to the city is for the 1361 01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:21,000 Speaker 1: development of a dignified life. Uh. And so really that 1362 01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:24,479 Speaker 1: is kind of the epilogue, um to to the story 1363 01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:26,760 Speaker 1: that we've been talking about this whole time. Now, you know, 1364 01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:29,920 Speaker 1: we don't know if the constitution itself will be adopted. 1365 01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:32,720 Speaker 1: Um there's going to be an exit vote on September 1366 01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:36,680 Speaker 1: four of this year in which Chileans, under it's a 1367 01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:39,320 Speaker 1: mandatory vote, will vote up or down on whether or 1368 01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:42,080 Speaker 1: not to adopt a new constitution. So we can't say 1369 01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:45,760 Speaker 1: for certain if these rights will actually become rights of 1370 01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:50,240 Speaker 1: citizenship in Chile. But as of now, those rights are 1371 01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,320 Speaker 1: included in the text that will be voted on in September, 1372 01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:56,720 Speaker 1: and I think I think that's a pretty good place 1373 01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:58,360 Speaker 1: to end it, unless you have anything else that you 1374 01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:00,080 Speaker 1: want to know. I think that that's a really you know, 1375 01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:03,000 Speaker 1: there's a really nice symmetry there. Um. And you know, 1376 01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:04,960 Speaker 1: I stayed up far too late the other night watching 1377 01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:06,920 Speaker 1: that vote. I think it went to like two in 1378 01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:09,880 Speaker 1: the morning. Um, but it was you know, it was 1379 01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:12,760 Speaker 1: an exciting thing to see. Um. And you know, it 1380 01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:17,519 Speaker 1: is an exciting moment to be here in Chile, especially 1381 01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,679 Speaker 1: after having to be away for two years during during 1382 01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:23,760 Speaker 1: the pandemic. Yeah. Um, yeah, well, thank thank you so 1383 01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:27,200 Speaker 1: much for thank you so much for talking with us. Oh, 1384 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:28,960 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much for having me. It's 1385 01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:31,000 Speaker 1: been a it's been a real pleasure, you know. And 1386 01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:34,680 Speaker 1: I hope that um my ramblings are are sensible to 1387 01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:38,240 Speaker 1: your listeners, um, and um, that they're able to take 1388 01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,320 Speaker 1: something from it, because I do think there's an importance 1389 01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:43,960 Speaker 1: in this history especially you know, this year is the 1390 01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:48,240 Speaker 1: fifty year anniversary of the Cordonous emergence, and so it's 1391 01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,360 Speaker 1: a great time to to sort of spread knowledge of 1392 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:54,120 Speaker 1: this this moment in tile in history. Yeah. And I 1393 01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:59,680 Speaker 1: guess do you have anything like that you want to plug? Uh? No, 1394 01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:03,000 Speaker 1: I I don't have anything specifically. Um, yeah, no, still 1395 01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:06,520 Speaker 1: cranking away in the archives and working on my dissertation. 1396 01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:09,200 Speaker 1: So sadly I don't have a book to plug or 1397 01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:10,840 Speaker 1: anything like that. But you know, give me a couple 1398 01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:14,240 Speaker 1: of years, uh and I a book I have you 1399 01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:20,519 Speaker 1: back on when it comes out. Yeah. Yeah, Well, in 1400 01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:26,040 Speaker 1: the meantime, you two can form a large section of 1401 01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:28,720 Speaker 1: fidustial democracy in your workplace that involves taking it over. 1402 01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:33,559 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, go go do that. This this has been 1403 01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:35,400 Speaker 1: It could happen here. You can find us on Twitter 1404 01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:37,880 Speaker 1: and as to grab it happen here pod. Actually, by 1405 01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,200 Speaker 1: the time this is dropping, we will be a few 1406 01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:43,280 Speaker 1: days away from Merket Killdoy's new series Cool People Who 1407 01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,400 Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff, which is rad. You're gonna hear a 1408 01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:49,320 Speaker 1: lot of cool people doing cool things. That is dropping 1409 01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:53,040 Speaker 1: on May Day, on May one, and after that we 1410 01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,240 Speaker 1: have we we we have another show dropping, which is 1411 01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:58,840 Speaker 1: which is which is a ghost Church about ghost church 1412 01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,799 Speaker 1: eat things. It's it's gonna be good. It's it's Jamie Loftus. 1413 01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,000 Speaker 1: It's jam loft Is doing J. B. Loftus things about 1414 01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:05,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of a bunch of the sort of like 1415 01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:10,120 Speaker 1: American ghost churches and people who talk to ghosts. So yeah, 1416 01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:17,960 Speaker 1: go listen to that. Have fun by everyone. It Could 1417 01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:20,280 Speaker 1: Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. For 1418 01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:23,120 Speaker 1: more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 1419 01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:25,160 Speaker 1: zone media dot com or check us out on the 1420 01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,920 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 1421 01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:30,880 Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, 1422 01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:34,400 Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. 1423 01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:35,439 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.