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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From House Supports

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

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Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline and this is the inaugural episode of

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Speaker 1: our Boys of Summer series. Yes, because we both love

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Speaker 1: Don Henley. That's right, that's all this episode is about. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a four episode long series on the

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Speaker 1: artistry of Don Henley. No, just kidding. We wanted to

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Speaker 1: do a series during June highlighting men who have made

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Speaker 1: significant contributions to the lives of women in various ways.

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Speaker 1: So throughout June we are going to highlight four Boys

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Speaker 1: of Summer and we're kicking off this week with Frons

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Speaker 1: designer Paul Poire. And while I don't know that Poire

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Speaker 1: is so so much a a gender equality champion or

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Speaker 1: anything like that, he did, however, unlaced women from the corsets.

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Speaker 1: He helped us breathe easier. Thank goodness. Yeah, this guy

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Speaker 1: had pretty humble beginnings in a working class Parisian family.

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Speaker 1: He was born in eighteen seventy nine to a cloth merchant,

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Speaker 1: so he sort of had an in already into the

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Speaker 1: design world. He became one of the twentieth century's greatest coturiers,

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Speaker 1: Is that right, Yeah, yeah, Okay, I'm pretending like I

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Speaker 1: know French. Okay, So he actually used his natural charisma

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Speaker 1: to gain entry into some of the most exclusive atliers

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Speaker 1: of the Belly Park. And basically an italier is it's

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Speaker 1: French for workshop, and it's where you would go if

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Speaker 1: you were an up and coming fashion designer, and you

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Speaker 1: would basically make designs alongside and with more important fashion

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Speaker 1: designers like Project Runway. Yeah, kind of like a fashion guild.

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Speaker 1: So he starts out he's working for other designers, he's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily working for himself, but immediately he starts shaking

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Speaker 1: things up. And in nineteen oh three, Poay created a

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Speaker 1: coat based on the shape of a kimono, and it

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Speaker 1: was indicative of the fashions he would eventually promote and

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Speaker 1: popularised throughout his career, things that were looser and that flowed.

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Speaker 1: He said that he'd become tired of the dominant aesthetic.

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Speaker 1: All that was soft, washed out and insipid was held

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Speaker 1: in honor. He thought, basically that all wealthy woman women

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Speaker 1: look the same, all corseted and wearing all those heavy,

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Speaker 1: ruffled things. Yeah, there is this anecdote about him going

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Speaker 1: to this fancy Parisian cafe and walking in and seeing

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Speaker 1: these very well dressed women sitting at a table. But

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Speaker 1: he thought to himself, I would have no idea how

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Speaker 1: to tell you to a part. There's there's no character

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Speaker 1: or individuality at all in the clothes that you're wearing.

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Speaker 1: And so we're gonna get to how He eventually was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, ladies, let's take off that corset. But

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Speaker 1: for a little bit of bra history to understand just

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Speaker 1: how significant it is that we finally stopped wearing corsets.

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Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, the bra, the brazier, the boob holder, has

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Speaker 1: been around for a really, really, really long time. Historians

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Speaker 1: trace it back to b C. When Minoan women on

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Speaker 1: the island of Crete were tightly fitted bands across their

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Speaker 1: waists to hoist up that bad breasts. Yeah, so we

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Speaker 1: had push up bras starting in ancient times and then

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Speaker 1: course it's entered the picture around sixteen hundred. They were

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Speaker 1: made from stiffened linen and wood horn metal or whale teeth,

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Speaker 1: So right away, undergarments are incredibly comfortable, yes, because there's

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Speaker 1: nothing nothing that takes you through the day quite like

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Speaker 1: whale teeth holding your boob up. That's right, just crunching

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Speaker 1: down on your ribs. And now the early versions, though

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Speaker 1: of course it's were called stays. The word corset did

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Speaker 1: not come into general use until the late eighteenth century,

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Speaker 1: just little little grammar notes and etymological origins, because core

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Speaker 1: is the French word for body, and corsett it's like

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Speaker 1: a little body because you're being freaking shrunk by whale teeth.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a precious etymology for a not so precious garment,

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Speaker 1: but it's it wasn't just meant to create that tiny waste.

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Speaker 1: It was also meant to support the very heavy garments

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Speaker 1: of the time. Edwardian dress was super heavy, made of

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Speaker 1: these very thick fabrics. It was uncomfortable and an outfit

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Speaker 1: for a woman could weigh pounds easily. It's like carrying

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Speaker 1: around a toddler, Yeah, all the time on you. Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess, I mean, I don't know, tyler that holds

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Speaker 1: your boobs all over baby Bjorn, Yeah, exactly. So stuff

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Speaker 1: gets real. In eighteen sixteen, when French corsetier Leroy I

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Speaker 1: read the first is Leroy, I'm like, oh, the redneck

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Speaker 1: French corset Roy set out to France Tonic a course it,

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Speaker 1: so he invents the divorce courset, which separates and pushes

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Speaker 1: the breasts upward using padded iron or steel. And I

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Speaker 1: think it was around this point when something called the

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Speaker 1: divorce corset was manufactured that women and some men were like, okay, y'all,

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Speaker 1: things are getting a little crazy. And from while all

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Speaker 1: of this is going on, when we have now the

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Speaker 1: evolution from corset to the brazier. In the background, from

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty to around nineteen fourteen, we have the dress

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Speaker 1: reform movement going on because there were people so radical,

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Speaker 1: folks who were thinking for not only women's but also

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Speaker 1: men's fashion as well. That okay, people, we were wearing

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Speaker 1: a lot of clothes. They're very heavy, they're so expensive.

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Speaker 1: What can we do? This is absolutely ridiculous. And there

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Speaker 1: were actually branches of them specifically focused on underwear reform,

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Speaker 1: which I love. I would love to go to those meetings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and underwear Reform has some coffee and pastry at an

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Speaker 1: underwear meeting. Well. Basically, underwear Reform advocated for everyone to

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Speaker 1: just wear union suits, which were like those onesies, you know,

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Speaker 1: those long john Yeah, there was who was it, Rebecca

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Speaker 1: Taylor no, Susan Taylor, Excuse me? Was her name? Was

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Speaker 1: this woman who advocated for the emancipation suit, which would

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Speaker 1: have been a replacement for all the women's corsets, bustles, crinoline,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. And you just wear a lady's union suit.

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Speaker 1: I liked it. I bet that gets warm, though my

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Speaker 1: mother would not enjoy that. No, that's a union suit.

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Speaker 1: Still sounds like too much to me, But wow, that

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Speaker 1: social movement is simmering in the back ground. In eighteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine, we have Hermione Cadole, who opened up a

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Speaker 1: shop in Paris and she is attributed with selling the

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Speaker 1: first bra. It was a part of a two piece

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Speaker 1: underwear set. Scandalous. Yes, it was called as su Tien's Gorge.

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Speaker 1: And I know that I'm mangling that French, but I

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Speaker 1: wanted to say that because it's French for a throat support.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, so bras literally a throat support, all right?

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Speaker 1: Well so in Marie too sec patented the first bra.

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Speaker 1: But meanwhile, throughout the eighteen nineties, artist Charles Dana Gibson

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Speaker 1: had popularized the s shaped silhouette of the Gibson girl

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Speaker 1: using a corset in a bustle, so like you're you've

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Speaker 1: got this tiny waist, but you're you're jutted out in

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Speaker 1: the front and then your butt sticking up in the back,

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Speaker 1: and it's very unnatural, and I'm sure there were a

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Speaker 1: lot of back pain going on. But it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: seven at the word brazier and enters the lexicon when

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Speaker 1: Vogue uses it for the first time, and all Parae

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Speaker 1: really was it's champion. He was the first to realize

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Speaker 1: the potential of fashion without corsets. And we'll go into

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Speaker 1: more detail and how Parae really popularized the no corset

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Speaker 1: look in high fashion, which then trickled down to lower fashion,

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Speaker 1: because at this point too, we start to have a

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Speaker 1: shift to where fashion becomes more democratized, where it's not

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Speaker 1: just really wealthy women who can look good, but the

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Speaker 1: styles change to where women of all means can look good.

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Speaker 1: This also will start to talk about the mass production

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Speaker 1: of goods. We have urbanization, all these things that are

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Speaker 1: starting to kick up. And on July nine, Mary Phelps

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Speaker 1: Jacob under the name Caress Crosby, patented a design for

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Speaker 1: the Broad not the first broad design, but it's the

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Speaker 1: design that would be the most widely used. It was

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Speaker 1: the closest thing at this point to a broad as

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Speaker 1: we would wear today. Yeah, silk handkerchiefs and a ribbon.

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Speaker 1: She developed it to wear under an evening gown after

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Speaker 1: her course. It kind of you know, it was was

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Speaker 1: readily seen under the dress. It was too scandalous. So

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Speaker 1: she made a little bra out of Hanky's little hanky bra.

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Speaker 1: She was a socialite, f y. I yeah, well so

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Speaker 1: talking about the whole fashion effects society and society effects

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Speaker 1: fashion and like world events make changes happen. That was

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Speaker 1: That was a delicate way of saying all that. Well,

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Speaker 1: so we have World War One and during this period

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Speaker 1: of course, it's really fall out of favor and they're

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Speaker 1: replaced by bras and girdles. But what helped that along.

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Speaker 1: Not only was it designers like Parae, but in nine

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Speaker 1: seventeen we have the U. S. War Industries Board, which

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Speaker 1: asked women to stop buying courses to save metal, and

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Speaker 1: boy did they They ended up saving twenty eight thousand

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Speaker 1: tons enough to build two battleships. Which is Craig, Craig

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Speaker 1: you if you ask me, so, how is Poiae influencing things? Well,

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Speaker 1: he is not only paying attention to the influence of

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Speaker 1: simplicity on cut and form. You have functionalism taking over

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Speaker 1: from art new vaux. Essentially, lines everywhere are becoming simpler.

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Speaker 1: The Gibson girl is falling out of fashion, and you

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Speaker 1: have the what will become afterwards, those straighter lines of

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Speaker 1: you think of the new woman of the flapper area

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Speaker 1: where women would actually bind their breasts down to look

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Speaker 1: as flat chested as possible. Um. And so Parade was

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Speaker 1: essentially riding a social wave and it was kind of

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Speaker 1: a confluence of a number of different forces, and he

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Speaker 1: happened to be the one with the vision for fashion

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Speaker 1: to say, oh, you know what, I'm going to put

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Speaker 1: together entire catalog based around this look. Well as part

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Speaker 1: of that catalog that I'll talk about in just a second. Um,

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Speaker 1: he really put the influence not only on simplicity of

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Speaker 1: cut and form, but brighter colors, boulder patterns, and lighter fabrics.

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Speaker 1: And around this time, uh, there was a focus on

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Speaker 1: function and form because, like Christen said, we had rapid

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Speaker 1: urbanization and increased popularity of sports like tennis, cycling, and

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Speaker 1: golf that created a need for clothes that allowed greater movement.

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Speaker 1: So Paray's view was simple. Elaborate underwear spoiled the line

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Speaker 1: of women's clothes. To him, it wasn't just so people

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Speaker 1: are playing tennis now, it's like, no, my designs, my simple, unstructured,

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Speaker 1: unfussy designs, are being ruined by the corset. And so

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Speaker 1: amid all of these social and fashion changes, his new

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Speaker 1: groundbreaking catalog, illustrated by JP, ended up revolutionizing fashion and

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Speaker 1: ash and illustration one of his dresses, the design for

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Speaker 1: a white dress in the Hellenic style was just a

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Speaker 1: tubular shape with a high waist that had no need

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Speaker 1: for hoops or a corset. Yeah. He also was a

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Speaker 1: big fan side note of turbans in place of large hats,

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Speaker 1: hair and pants under tunics for Downton Abbey fans. You

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Speaker 1: might remember where the youngest daughter debuts her new hair

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Speaker 1: and pant outfit and everyone was like, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, there was definitely an outcry over those hair

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Speaker 1: and pants as quote a dangerous appropriation of the male prerogative. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I mean in thinking about the massive impact of

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Speaker 1: this catalog that Poiret put out, because we might think, well,

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Speaker 1: he's just one guy, how could he have that much influence? Well,

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Speaker 1: at the time, he was known as the king of fashion,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to think of modern day equivalent to that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm trying to think of a modern day equivalent

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Speaker 1: to that. I don't know. Maybe it's like if Mark Jacobs,

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Speaker 1: for instance, who has a major influence from high to

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Speaker 1: lower fashion, came out with something shocking that would make

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Speaker 1: international fashion news. All pants have inner tubes built in

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Speaker 1: pants are the new shirt? I love it well. So.

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Speaker 1: Emma West, in a paper called a Modernist Mode Fashion

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Speaker 1: nineteen and the Limits of Modernism, wrote that if fashionist

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Speaker 1: scene is a way of externalizing oneself, then wearing these

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Speaker 1: modern fashions would have been a big part of how

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Speaker 1: women expressed their modernity. She says. Moreover, Parais designs also

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Speaker 1: helped women embrace a modern lifestyle. With this emphasis, she

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Speaker 1: talks about on you know, his loose, comfortable clothes that

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Speaker 1: actually made sports and oh, I don't know, like walking possible.

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Speaker 1: She said, for the first time, women could fully negotiate

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Speaker 1: the speed and terrain of the modern city. Fashion change

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Speaker 1: the way that women interacted with an experience to modernity,

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Speaker 1: because now you're not wearing a corset and tight pound

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Speaker 1: toddler clothes you're less likely I would think to like

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Speaker 1: pass out in the streets. Well, and she also points

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Speaker 1: out how many different factors when you sum it all up,

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Speaker 1: combined to spark this idea for Parree, which includes technological innovation, urbanization. Sports.

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Speaker 1: You know, everyone was all of a sudden golfing and

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Speaker 1: playing tennis. You have the bicycle, Suffragism was happening, functionalism, cubism, exoticism,

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Speaker 1: as you see with pulling in more Eastern styles with

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Speaker 1: hair and vants and turbans. All of these factors combine

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of incredible. And so Poire is left

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Speaker 1: behind this legacy of free women from the corset because

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Speaker 1: he advocated for the brazier to replace it. But Poire

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Speaker 1: got the last laugh in terms of of confining women

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Speaker 1: to to clothes that restricted their movement. He introduced the

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Speaker 1: hobble skirt, which was a vertical, tight bottomed style and

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Speaker 1: he said, quote, I freed the bust and I shackled

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Speaker 1: the legs. Well, okay, so even if you can't take

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Speaker 1: long strides, at least you can take a deep breath.

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Speaker 1: Sure sure well, And which had a longer lasting impact

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Speaker 1: the hobble skirt or not having to wear a corset.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because I still wear a hobble skirt. I

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Speaker 1: know the answer to that question. I'll tell you what

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Speaker 1: Carolina hobble skirt on public transit. That is, I've missed

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Speaker 1: so many trains. New Week hold on um I found.

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Speaker 1: I found a really fantastic article from nineteen seventy six

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Speaker 1: that was talking about an exhibition of Para's clothes in

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Speaker 1: New York UM and this quote from Robert Riley, who

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Speaker 1: was the director of the Design Lab of Fit Fashion

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Speaker 1: Institute of Technologg at the time, said that for a

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Speaker 1: thousand years women had worn structured clothing, and corsets were

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Speaker 1: from the knees to the armpits. And he threw that

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Speaker 1: out the window. He must have scared women to death.

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Speaker 1: When he visited the United States, there was a great

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Speaker 1: hue and cry. Parae was destroying women's morals. Women were

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Speaker 1: showing their ankles for the first time. But sad end

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Speaker 1: to the story is that even though Parae, you know,

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Speaker 1: revolutionized fashion in this major way that had a huge

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Speaker 1: historical significance, he died penniless. Like after the war, with

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Speaker 1: mass production entering into fashion, he didn't want to conform.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to continue working on couture clothes, and the

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Speaker 1: economics just weren't there. And I think the last time

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Speaker 1: the New York Times reported on Hi, while I was

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Speaker 1: still alive, he was working as a bartender, and and

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Speaker 1: then he died poor and kind of faded away, and

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Speaker 1: I just randomly ran across him, and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: the story about him. I'm sure fashion buffs out there

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Speaker 1: have heard of Portree, but we thought that he would

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Speaker 1: be a fun one to kick off the Boys of

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Speaker 1: Summer series because it's an interesting snippet of how one

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Speaker 1: person's major contribution, summed up in one fashion catalog really

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Speaker 1: change things. No, I'm sure there are some women saying, well,

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Speaker 1: we're still wearing bras, how about that? But hey, ladies,

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Speaker 1: at least we don't have whale teeth around our bodies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or like steal, well we have underwire. At least we

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Speaker 1: don't have whale teeth. Yes, there we go, ladies. Gender

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Speaker 1: is a gender wage, Yeah, getting you down. At least

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Speaker 1: we don't have whale teeth. Put that on a T shirt.

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Speaker 1: So we hope that you enjoyed this edition of the

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Speaker 1: Boys of Summer. If you'd like to write us moms Stuff.

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Speaker 1: Discovery dot Com is where you can send your letter.

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Speaker 1: You can also hit us up on Facebook. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: want to follow us on Facebook this summer. That's all

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say. Um, And before we get to a

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Speaker 1: couple of letters that you have sent us, going to

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Speaker 1: take just a quick break and then we'll get right back.

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Speaker 1: And now back to our letters. I have one here

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Speaker 1: from Caitlin. She says, I work as a legal assistant

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Speaker 1: and deal primarily in f I n r A securities arbitrations.

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Speaker 1: I throw those words around all the time to Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: So I go through a lot of new account forms

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Speaker 1: and financial documents. In general, you would be absolutely amazed

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Speaker 1: to see how often men control their wives investment accounts.

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Speaker 1: They always open accounts on the same day. One time

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Speaker 1: we went to hearing and the wife had checked off

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Speaker 1: speculation as her investment objective and claimed her level of

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Speaker 1: investment expertise was excellent. Well, she lost a ton of

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Speaker 1: money because her husband and son in law were trading

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Speaker 1: in her account and she allowed them to. It was

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Speaker 1: pathetic to see her testify, quote, my daddy and husband

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Speaker 1: have always controlled my investments. Well, then she should have

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Speaker 1: dealt with her loss, and she had no problem spending

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Speaker 1: money when her boys speculation paid off. Unfortunately, the arbitration

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Speaker 1: panel awarded her a back portion of the money she lost.

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Speaker 1: Worst part one of the panelists was a woman made

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Speaker 1: me want to puke. Wow. Thanks for the story, Caitlin Well.

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Speaker 1: I got an email here from Rose who is writing

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Speaker 1: a response to our episode on men in Anorexia because

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Speaker 1: she wanted to share a bit of her story about

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Speaker 1: recovering from anorexia. So a little bit of a trigger

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Speaker 1: warning here for people who might have struggled with eating disorders.

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Speaker 1: But she writes, I really really appreciate you saying that

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Speaker 1: anorexia is not about losing weight. It's not that at all.

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Speaker 1: It's about control. You feel scared and stressed about something

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Speaker 1: in your life, and you channel those emotions into the

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Speaker 1: one thing you can you can control, which is your body.

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Speaker 1: And she goes on to talk about how a lot

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Speaker 1: of times people might not realize to the length of

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Speaker 1: time that a lot of antorect x will struggle with

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Speaker 1: their eating disorder, and how she bottomed out with her

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Speaker 1: weight over a four month period, and she says this

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Speaker 1: short four month period with the flashy numbers about how

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Speaker 1: low my weight was is what most people think of

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Speaker 1: is interorexia. However, this is not the only interorexia. It's

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Speaker 1: also all the years leading up to that, when I

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Speaker 1: would look in every single mirror around to see if

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Speaker 1: I looked fat, when I jiggled my leg every time

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Speaker 1: I sat to burn more calories. And it's when I

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Speaker 1: thought and even calmly accepted the fact that I die

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Speaker 1: alone because I was so fat and hideous. But since

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Speaker 1: my b and I is normal and I hit it well,

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Speaker 1: no one ever knew that I was interactic. So I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry for this rather depressing read. But I thought that

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Speaker 1: you would be someone who, being interested in equality in

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Speaker 1: women's rights in general, would be interested to hear some

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Speaker 1: common misconceptions. Um So I really wanted to thank her

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Speaker 1: for her letter, and even if it might be on

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Speaker 1: a sadder topic, I think it is important to take

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Speaker 1: into account with issues of that that it's not just

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Speaker 1: something that you snap out of. That there is a timeline,

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Speaker 1: you know, from both before maybe the visible symptoms become

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Speaker 1: more apparent to people around you and how you know

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Speaker 1: it can be an ongoing struggle. So and and again,

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Speaker 1: for anyone listening who might be struggling with eating disorders.

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Speaker 1: UM highly recommend you going to the National Eating Disorders

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Speaker 1: Association's website online to find resources to get some help

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Speaker 1: because it is something that you can recover from. So

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Speaker 1: with that again, send us to your letters. If you'd

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Speaker 1: like to email us, mom Stuff at discovery dot com

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Speaker 1: is where you can do it. You can also message

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Speaker 1: us on Facebook and tweet us at mom Stuff podcast,

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00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,400
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Speaker 1: you can follow us stuff I'm Never Told You tumbler

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Speaker 1: on YouTube bring you videos, brand new ones three times

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Speaker 1: else to YouTube dot com, slash stuff mom Never Told

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