1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is off on 6 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: an adventure that I'm sure you'll hear about soon. They 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: call me Ben. You're joined as always with our super 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Controlled deconds. Most importantly, you are you, 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: want you to know. This is a bit of a 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: grab bag episode. Let's say, let's see, Matt um, are 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: we hearing this in one? Are you and I recording 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: in for an episode that comes out next year? Gee? 14 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: Let me think, yes, yes, this comes out. This is 15 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: an early episode. Congratulations everyone listening to this. You've made 16 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: it what what strange horizons a weight? Yeah? You made 17 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: it past that arbitrary line in the sand that we 18 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: drew between years. I think about that all the time. 19 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: Either way, that calendars evolved, you know historically, like there 20 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: have always been New Year's celebrations, but uh in in 21 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: many ancient civilizations, the New Year was something closer to 22 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: what we in the modern day would call March. And 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: there was this just this intense, cartoonish series of events 24 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: that led to January first becoming the day. So shout 25 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: out to uh oh. I can't remember which pope it was, 26 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: but shout out to them. I'm just the Gregorian calendars 27 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: were referring to. But it is not man named Gregory. 28 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: It is cartoonish that we wouldn't start the new year 29 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: in the spring, when life begins again. Why not? Why 30 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: why do we know, okay in the middle of winter. Okay, 31 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: cool that, let's do that. Let's do that at least again. 32 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: That's my that's my North American centric mind. When when 33 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: I'm talking about seasons, well, you and I have talked 34 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: off air before about how arbitrary the current calendar is. 35 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: And we've also talked before. I can't remember whether this 36 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: made it on air, but we we had some pretty 37 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: great conversations about different calendars around the world. You know, 38 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: it's it's it is literally a different year and a 39 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: different era in various regions, various countries across this planet. 40 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: We are still going to celebrate, though, who doesn't you 41 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: know what I think at this point, everybody is thankful 42 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: for a win. So let's all let's all moderately congratulate 43 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: ourselves and let's stick together. Yeah, and it doesn't matter 44 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: if you're not going to celebrate. If you live anywhere 45 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: near a major city, you will hear the new year 46 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: rung in by the sound of your dog whimpering somewhere 47 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: in your house because all the boom booms um. Then 48 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: before we jump in, yes, we've I've been listening to 49 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: a lot of voicemails lately, and a lot of people 50 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: reached out to us in early December, late November asking 51 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: about a particular book that we mentioned on an episode 52 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: past about behavioral not manipulation, weaponized psychology. Uh do we do? 53 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: You remember it all? The title of that that book 54 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: that we were referring to. I couldn't. I couldn't recall it. 55 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: I do, I was looking at it earlier this weekend, 56 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: in fact, and I hate to be the party pooper here, 57 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: but I will not recommend that book on air, nor 58 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: will I propagate its title. I will propose an alternative 59 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: book that can give you a lot of the same 60 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 1: information or a good primer, a good intro. It's called 61 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: you say more than you Think This is a book 62 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: by Janine Driver and its studies. Well, it's somewhat of 63 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: a of an applied approach two using body language and 64 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: a mindful way force to accomplish certain desires, goals and 65 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: so on. The book you say more than you think. 66 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: It centers around a seven day plan for inculcating yourself 67 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: with new habits body language wise, and then sticking with them, 68 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: maintaining them, and growing them. For instance, if you are 69 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: listening to today's podcast and you are sitting down, do 70 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: us a favor, do yourself a favor. Don't move, don't 71 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: move your body, but think of your feet. Be aware 72 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: of your feet. Where are they? Are they splayed out? 73 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: Are they crossed maybe slightly beneath your chair? Which foot 74 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: is the closest to the back of the chair, Or 75 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: if they're not crossed, which direction are your feet pointing in? 76 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: And what's in that direction? Things like that. They're very 77 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: small things. There There are things that we don't often 78 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: notice consciously unless we are trained to do so, such 79 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: as you know, like if you are an FBI agent, 80 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: or you're someone who conducts various types of interviews or interrogations, 81 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: or your perhaps a trial lawyer, right, So that that's 82 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: the book I would recommend in lieu of this. Again, 83 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to be a hardie pooper, but just I 84 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: think you say more than you think is uh is 85 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: a great and uh and a more wholesome way to 86 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: to get involved with the analysis of body language. But 87 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: do keep in mind, segue that many wholesome things have 88 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: disturbing origins, and that's what today's show is about. It's 89 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: often said that a great crime is that the origin 90 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: of every great fortune, and to a degree this cliche 91 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: rings true. So in this episode today, towards the very 92 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: end of a very arbitrary calendar, we are diving into 93 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: skeletons of some beloved or at least accepted and lauded 94 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: institutions to uncover their strange, often troubled, very disturbing beginnings. 95 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: UH spoiler alert conspiracy realist, this does get crazy very 96 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: very quickly. Matt, how would you what would you say 97 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: on a on a one to nine? Where are we 98 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: at with that segue? Let's see one to nine? Hold on, 99 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: let me check my okay, my legs are crisscross apple 100 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: sauce looking at my screen. UM, I would say that 101 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: was a pretty good segue there, Ben, let's give it 102 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: a seven two kinds too kind? Uh so, oh wait, 103 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: this is the seven good or okay? Yeah, all right? 104 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: So uh so, let's let's segue even harder here into 105 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: something that I know nothing about outside of the experience 106 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: of the um people around me. Uh, gynecology. Uh, it's 107 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: not even something that I really have any right to 108 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: talk about. But I'm just gonna tell you, and you 109 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: probably already know this, hopefully, that the origins of gynecology 110 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: are pretty horrific. Here are the facts, and the first 111 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: thing you need to know, if you don't already, is 112 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: that the origins of gynecology begin with slavery. Yes. Uh, 113 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: there is a man, a man who is considered to 114 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: be the father of gynecology. He is hailed in this way, 115 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: and his name is James Maryon Sims. There are statues 116 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: erected in this man's honor. And you know, in in 117 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: overall concept, at least in the modern day, kinnecology is 118 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: a tremendously helpful and fantastic thing. Overall, it, you know, 119 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: enhances the health of women across the globe. However, this man, James, 120 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: he practiced medicine when treating women was considered um perhaps distasteful, 121 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: which is a terrible thing to even think, but it 122 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: was also rarely done. He invented something called the vaginal speculum, 123 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: which is a tool used for examination, a very helpful tool. Yes, 124 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: Sims also pioneered surgical techniques. One one technique was to 125 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: repair what's known as a vesco vaginal fistula. This was 126 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: a common complication of childbirth in the nineteen century. It's 127 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: when a tear occurs between the uterus and the bladder 128 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: and it causes constant pain, uh, causes problems with urination. Uh. 129 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: It is overall a good thing in the world that 130 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: techniques exist to address this issue. But while Simms was 131 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: doing this, he was conducting, as he said, Matt, he 132 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: was conducting all of his experimentation. That's really what it was. 133 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: It was human experimentation, was conducting it on enslaved women, 134 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: and some of these people went on to be his assistance. 135 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: And doubtlessly, even in this, even in this horrific, unclean origin, 136 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: uh it I would say it is doubtless that his 137 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: assistance probably pioneered some of the techniques that are credited 138 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: to him today. Because, as you said, at the at 139 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: the top of this discussion. We're dudes, so we only 140 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: we're dudes. We're not O, B, G Y N. So 141 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: we know this from an outsider or an intellectual rather 142 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: than experiential perspective. It's incredibly misleading to characterize his experiments, 143 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: these acts of cruelty as research. This. This experimentation was 144 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: done without anesthesia, and he didn't like the idea of 145 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: informed consent or the idea of therapeutic treatment is not 146 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: something that occurs to Sims. He caused untold suffering of 147 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: a great magnitude by operating under a racist notion that 148 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: still persists in Western medicine today, the idea that someone 149 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: based on their skin color may have a different experience 150 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: with pain. Sims believed, or Sims seemed to believe, that 151 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: black people did not feel pain, which which is ridiculous. 152 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: And you have to look at the you have to 153 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: look at the studies of modern medicine right and in 154 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: in Western Europe as well as in the United States. Uh, 155 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: you will see medical professionals who do not believe their 156 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: patients when they're saying I have this condition, I am 157 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: in tremendous pain. It echoes today. There is there is 158 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: a terrible ripple effect. I just want to I want 159 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: to add to that. My my wife is Cuban and 160 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: very recently she has gone to the doctor on numerous 161 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: occasions requesting assistance in the form of either medication or 162 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: further you know, studies on her just to see what 163 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: is wrong, and she has been met with essentially, take 164 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: some tail and all you'll be fine, or you just 165 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: need more sleep, take some melotone in you'll be fine. Um. 166 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: And like, just hearing it from her and knowing what 167 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: she's going through and how she's feeling, it's it's baffling 168 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: to me that that is the way she is being treated. 169 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: And it took several attempts basically for her to actually 170 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: get help from a medical professional, and it's just very 171 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: very disturbing that it continues. Yeah, you know, the worst part, 172 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: Matt is this is going to be familiar to a 173 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: lot of our fellow listeners today right listening to this, Uh, 174 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: you may have experienced this firsthand. And I've always I've 175 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: always had a problem with the the stereotype when they say, oh, 176 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, uh, certain people don't trust doctors, because I 177 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: think that's an incorrect way to frame it. The more 178 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: accurate way to frame that idea is that doctors don't 179 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: trust certain people statistically. And this is not a ding 180 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: on the excellent medical professionals we have listening to the 181 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 1: show today. This is based on some fairly robust studies 182 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: over time. Maybe it's an episode in the future, but 183 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:43,359 Speaker 1: we we wanted to use guidecology as just one example 184 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: of something that has saved lives, undeniably saved millions of lives, 185 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: but has its origins in a terrible, unforgivable thing. And 186 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: this is only the beginning, right. We know German and 187 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: you s companies helped the Nazis during World War Two, 188 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: for example, and you can read these corporations various public 189 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: statements about this, which we've talked about in the past, 190 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: and there are all something along the lines of, uh, 191 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: we didn't know, it was a different time, it was 192 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: a subsidiary we acquired later, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. But save it, 193 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: miss me with that. Guidecology is one of the most 194 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: well known examples of a horrifying origin story, but it 195 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: is by no means the only story of this kind. 196 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: Many many great institutions that do good things for the 197 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: world around us have at their hearts great crimes in 198 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: their origin, and they remain active and they remain profitable 199 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: in the modern day. What are we talking about, We'll 200 00:14:52,080 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's where 201 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Well, let's let's start with something we 202 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: can all agree on, Shelley. Yes, the environment. You know, 203 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: the air we breathe, the water we drink, the flora 204 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: and fauna, all the things that make up lay environment. Well, 205 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: it's a good thing, I think, right, It's a good 206 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: thing to have around probably, Yeah, And it seems as 207 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: though we humans the ones with the capacity to fully 208 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: alter our surroundings and the environment, we should probably take 209 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: care of it as best we can. Right. The world 210 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: is our responsibility in no small part, and uh, you know, 211 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: we owe it to future generations. You owe it to 212 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: my son, So listen up. I'm just joking. I'm just 213 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: I owe it to your daughter and your son to 214 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: we all. We all owe it to each other to 215 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: take care of it as as best that we can. 216 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: And there are many countless groups out there, organizations and 217 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: g os uh, small companies that have this as their aim. 218 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: How do we best take care of the environment? And 219 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: one of those groups is known as the Sierra Club. 220 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: You may have heard of it, absolutely, and you know, 221 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: it's so it's so weird that caring about the world 222 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: around you somehow became a topic that was up for debate. 223 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: It's true that that nefarious things have been conducted under 224 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: the banner of environmentalism, but actually caring about the environment 225 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: should not There's not a political thing about it. We 226 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: need the world more than the world needs us. If 227 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: every human being on the planet, We're like, what twenty 228 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: something minutes into this podcast, if every human being on 229 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: the planet vanished twenty five minutes into this show, the 230 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: rest of the world would be fine, you know what 231 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: I mean. We're really just like, we're just we should 232 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: just clean up after after ourselves. If a micro cosmic 233 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: example is helpful here, and don't don't worry about the 234 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: politicization of all this stuff. Think about the last time 235 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: you had a roommate who didn't clean up after they 236 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: you know, we're in the restroom or in the kitchen. 237 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: Screw them, right, that's fisticuffs about the dishes. Come on 238 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: and uh. And we looked into several of these groups 239 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 1: numerous times in the past, and we found we found various, uh, 240 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: noble things. We found various unethical things because people are 241 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: still people right for the most part. Uh. We learned 242 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: some weird stuff about the Sierra Club. As you said, Matt, 243 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: it's one of the best known environmental groups in the 244 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: United States. It's very old, it's a storied institution, was 245 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: founded back in eight nine two, and today it has 246 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: around two million members. It has this innocent, ambitious motto 247 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: that people of all creeds, nations, socio economic status, etcetera. 248 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: Can get behind. It's simply this and I love it. Explore, enjoy, 249 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: and protect the planet. That's cool. Captain Planet unite rings. 250 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: I hate, I hate jewelry, but I would wear a 251 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: ring free Captain Planet. Sure. Absolutely, Um, that's that sounds amazing. Yes, 252 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: like you said, we can all get behind that. But 253 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: there's there's some there's some issues, like we said, with 254 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: its origins. Now, when we're talking about these groups, UM, 255 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: generally we don't mean every member, right we we certainly 256 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: don't mean every member of this Yerra Club. When we're 257 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: talking about this, we're talking about the foundations. So very 258 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: key players who were involved in any of these organizations 259 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: that those are the folks were focusing on. So here's 260 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: the issue with this here club. A couple of key 261 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: members of this thing were known racists, is the best 262 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: way to put it, I suppose. Um. And you know, 263 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: when they were talking about saving the world, they aren't 264 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: necessarily talking about saving it for everyone. Uh, they were 265 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: talking about saving it for a very specific group of people, 266 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: generally the more pasty ones. Uh, which which you can say, 267 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: which I can say as the like you know, as 268 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: the yeah you're right, you're right. Uh. One of the 269 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: best phrases would be like virulent avowed racist. Okay. I 270 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: thought you're gonna say very virulent lee white or something. Okay, cool, 271 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: maybe that I mean, there's there's nothing wrong with being 272 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: who you are, and you can't change the circumstances of 273 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: your birth or your d NA yet. But I say 274 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: that's to myself in the mirror every morning. Continue. But 275 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: but some of these key members, some of these founders, 276 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: were hyper racist, like beyond beyond prejudice, you know, like 277 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: racist to the point where other people would say, well, 278 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: I you know, I agree with racism, but we could 279 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: talk about other stuff like what do you what do 280 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: you think of oatmeal? And they're like, no, no, no, 281 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: we're sticking with a racist thing. So she I know, 282 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: I know that's unfair, but it's somewhat true. So the 283 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: Sierra Club's founder, one John Muir often talked in explicit, 284 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: documented terms about non white people, words that frankly we 285 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: decided we're we're not going to give space to on air. 286 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: In nineteen o one, he said that white people shouldn't 287 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: be afraid to visit national parks because as the while, 288 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to paraphrase here, uh, the native population 289 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: are going to be mostly dead or civilized into useless innocence. Wow, 290 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: we're we're choosing not to say these words. I do 291 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: want to point out one of one of his phrase, 292 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: one of the phrases that he used, or terms that 293 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: he used, was up until very recently, the name of 294 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: a extremely large restaurant chain that you can look up 295 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: if you're interested, which has since changed its name, by 296 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: the way, And of course this we see a similar 297 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: pattern in the world of sports right major League teams 298 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: have are changing or will change their names. So this 299 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: line of thinking from mure is is it unfair to 300 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: hold the current the the current leaders of the Sierra 301 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: Club responsible for things that happened before they were born 302 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: that they could not in any way control. No, it's 303 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,959 Speaker 1: it's not fair in that regard. You know, you have 304 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: to acknowledge that and be transparent about the institution. But 305 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: the thing is, this line of thinking didn't stop with 306 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: John Muir. It appeared to carry on into recent years. 307 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: As recently as nineteen John Tanton, who was a WHO 308 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: formerly the National Population Committee chairman of the Sierra Club asked, 309 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: and this is on record, quote, what will happen when 310 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: the white population goes into minority status and the groups 311 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: that comprise the new coalition majorities don't share the same 312 00:22:54,040 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: environmental values? I just wonder where even gets that um 313 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: thinking whender where it comes from. It's very us versus them, 314 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: which seems strange because of the enormous amount of cooperation 315 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: inherent in saying like saving, preserving, or repairing the environment. 316 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: These conservational values were often tied up. You know, we're 317 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: dunking on the Sierra clip here, which it's an organization 318 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: that does good work. That's the weird thing about this episode. 319 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: All the organizations we're talking about, they do good stuff. 320 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: But the environmentalist conservational values were often tied up in prejudicial, 321 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: discriminatory beliefs that would be astounding in the modern day. 322 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: And they were like, so there's environmentalism, right, uh, make 323 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: national parks, try to preserve wildlife and ecosystems. But another 324 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: illution that was very popular was this idea of limiting 325 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: the quote unquote wrong kind of immigration. Yeah, the wrong 326 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: kind of immigration. Okay, So let's unpack this a little bit. 327 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen sixties, there was a popular theory 328 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: amongst the Sierra Club that immigration to a large extent 329 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: drives unsustainable population growth. So in one area, more humans 330 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: in equals too many humans. I mean that to a 331 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: rational mind. Maybe. Okay, well that does make sense. You're 332 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: adding to the population. There's population growth. Sure. Um, the 333 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: unsustainable part is is a bit arguable depending on the place. 334 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: But you can see where the logic existed, right. Um. 335 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: The problem is that the perspective shifted to a hardline 336 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: against immigration pretty much at all in the nineteen eighties. Yeah. Um, 337 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: And and again, like that means they're more insular, right 338 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: they are. They are taking a very hard stance on 339 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: population growth. Right. In general, we're going to be talking 340 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: a lot about population growth in this episode, but luckily, 341 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: as you know, the Sierra Club continued to mature after 342 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and twelve years or something, since 343 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: John Muir was in there. Um, they did seem to 344 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: very much write the course here. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. 345 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: In the Sierra Club announced its support for some immigration policies. 346 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: It was a unanimous decision amid the group's board of directors, 347 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: and it does mark a definitive break with their troubled, 348 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: complicated history on immigration. However, not everyone and took it well. 349 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: One response from a Sierra Club member said the following quote, 350 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: This divisive present stance has no place in the purpose 351 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: of the Club. To state that those voluntarily violating our 352 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: laws should be rewarded with citizenship because they voluntarily came 353 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: to our polluted country and must be protected as such 354 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: is illogical in the scheme of environmentalism in the United States. 355 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: The Club has lost my support. So in there we 356 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: see in just that snapshot, in that response, we see, uh, 357 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: we see the perspective of someone who prioritizes protecting the environment, 358 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: does not want more people around. Right to you to 359 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: your earlier statement about just the sheer math of it, right, Yeah, 360 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: But ultimately they're taking issue with the illegal way in 361 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: which a person entered the country. Right, that's what they're 362 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: saying exactly. They're not. It's kind of like how Oregon 363 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: was founded as a white supremacist utopia, which is true. 364 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but it's true. Uh. The 365 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: thing is, the logic is not consistent across this kind 366 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: of viewpoint. It's not uh, it's not keep everybody out, 367 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: it's keeps some people out. Another response is even um 368 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: even more explicit. Yeah, here's another quote. Like most environmental groups, 369 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: the Sierra Club continues to ignore all the problems stemming 370 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: from overpopulation in the United States and many other countries. 371 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: This is nothing more than a call for amnesty for 372 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: millions of welfare dependent, overbreeding, illegal aliens who can't speak 373 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: English and don't know what condoms are. Jesus, tell us 374 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: how you really feel, you know. Let here are these 375 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: promi members or is this like a YouTube comments section 376 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: for kind of like a YouTube comments section. Okay, I'll 377 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: be honest, I I picked the hot takes. Okay, Okay, 378 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: So so we just need to point out there this 379 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: does not mean that these statements represent this year Club, 380 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: not at all. That supporters certain supporters of this year 381 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: club feel this way. Picture Smokey the Bear. Everybody from 382 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: the US knows Smoky, I think everybody not in the US. 383 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: We have a mascot that is dedicated to like convincing 384 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: people not to set the forest on fire. That's his 385 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: whole job. So picture this guy. He's great. His name 386 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: is Smokey the Bear. I think in the UK it's 387 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: a frog or something. But uh, pictures Smoky the Bear 388 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: in the distance, just shaking his head in slow, painful disapproval. Yeah, yeah, um. 389 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: And again, like the just to continue here, the comments 390 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: of a member, someone who pays member status rather than 391 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: a founder or you know, a board member or something 392 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: like that. It's very it's very different. It's a very 393 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: different thing. Um, And it doesn't hold as much weight. 394 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: But it is struggling still to read that though. I 395 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: think you could probably find the organization to treat people 396 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: nicely and not murder. Anyone would also have comments similar 397 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: to this. Oh sure, yeah, you know, I've got a 398 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: great comparison here. Well, I've got let's see what you think. 399 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: Tell me whether this comparison is on the level I 400 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: was thinking about any large organization of people, right the 401 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: leaders and the civilians, or the members of the constituents, 402 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call them. I think one 403 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: of the best examples of this would be senators or 404 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: congress people, because some person may vote for a senator, 405 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: right or a congress person, and then they may have 406 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: views that this member of Congress completely disagrees with. You 407 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: know what I mean. They're like, I voted for you 408 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: because I like your policy on snow plows. Also, I 409 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: think you should consider eugenics. The senators like, thanks for 410 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: voting for me. I guess nah, No, we're good. Have 411 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: a good one. The snowplow was on the way. The 412 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: snowplow was on the way. So that's so. Now we've 413 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: got one example from the world of medicine. We've got 414 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: another example from the world of nonprofits. Right, and again 415 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: both in both of these examples, there are genuinely good things, 416 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: like objectively good things. Let's make it safer to be alive. 417 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: That's what both of those things ultimately equate to. Right. 418 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: But let's go, let's let's shift a little, or, as 419 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: they say in corporate America, let's pivot to the world 420 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: of academia. Out Ah, We're gonna find some more synergies here. Yes, yes, yes, 421 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: it's it's our wheelhouse. Oh gosh, uh people, we probably 422 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: mentioned it before, but for for years, um, Matt and 423 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: I have been like compiling and collecting these various corporate 424 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: corporate terms. Uh, what were some of your favorites if 425 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: we just stopped for a second and just talk about this. 426 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: I love cad I love when people say cadence. Yeah, 427 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, I've actually that comes up a lot with 428 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: us because we talked about episode count and when it 429 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: comes out all the time. So we talked about, you know, 430 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: it feels like a good cadence, Uh, to have Tuesday 431 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: and Thursday or whatever. Oh, and signal signal is a 432 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: relatively newer one. It's like we have signaled that blah 433 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: blah blah. Oh god, I've been using that a lot too. 434 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 1: It goes around, man, it goes around. Don't beat yourself up. 435 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: The other one, the one that still mist advised me, though, 436 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: is some wear along the line. In the past few years, 437 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: a specific kind of question just became an ask. Mmm, 438 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: that's a big ask, a big big ask. Yeah, gez, 439 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: well let's yeah, well, speaking of let's get into academia, 440 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: because my vocabulary certainly stems in the beginning from stem 441 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: but from my my education, that's where it begins. And 442 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: it was further when I went to college. College is 443 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: a fantastic thing in my opinion, and it should be 444 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: available to every human being on the planet, if you know, 445 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: however possible, especially if you live in the United States, 446 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: it should be. It should be paid for by the government. 447 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: I think, oh, oh man, hot take sorry, don't get 448 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: mad at me. I think that would be smart if 449 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: we pulled our money and sent all of our you know, 450 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: younger kids to college. I think they'll be smart. I 451 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: would say, you know, I'm with you there. I would 452 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: take it a little further. I would say a higher 453 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: education in general is a good thing because you know, 454 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: look for the past decade or so, more than the 455 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: past decade, there there has been this um narrative perpetrated 456 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: on the American people which says that one must attend 457 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: a university, one must attend to college, and that that 458 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: is simply not true. We have a great need for 459 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: the trades we have in that and that is absolutely 460 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: higher education. You know what I think we're I think 461 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: we're thinking about it incorrectly. I think the trades should 462 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: be college is a part of a college, like it 463 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: should be seen as an equal pursuit um because if 464 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: you could become a master of you can become a 465 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: master of really anything. And like you said, those trades 466 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: are highly necessary and needed right now, Um, we just 467 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: need to think about them as though it is truly 468 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: higher education and something to be lauded. Yeah, absolutely agreed. 469 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: And with that being said, let's visit the Ivory Tower. 470 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: Let's travel, you know what, Let's go to Georgetown University 471 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: specifically is one of the country's most um well known, 472 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: prestigious centers of higher learning. This is a place where 473 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: if you if you attend there, you have massive advantages 474 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: after your education, simply because of the name, the networking, 475 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: the association with this institution, the family members that probably 476 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: went there, perhaps yeah, perhaps probably. Well, I mean they're 477 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: definitely legacy hires. And and it's a difficult school to 478 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: get into. It has very high standards. Not for nothing 479 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: is it considered a world class institution today. It's no 480 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: for churning out students, shooting them straight from the lecture 481 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: hall to some of the highest positions in the world 482 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: of nonprofits and Wall Street private industries. The US government. 483 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: If it were a business, then we could say that 484 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: business is booming. And and you're right, Matt. Many of 485 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: these alumni go on to send their kids to Georgetown, 486 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: or they participate in the feedback loop and they keep 487 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: the money in the influence spinning in a circular fashion. 488 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: They donate large amounts of money, or they assist with 489 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: construction for the school. Things are looking pretty great for Georgetown. 490 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: You oh, yeah, they are. I'm just gonna put forward 491 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: here that you know, all those donations we're talking about 492 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: probably have a lot to do with why the kids 493 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: get in. That's my opinion. Anyway, moving on, Um, the 494 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: thing is Georgetown University. This thing wasn't always an organization 495 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: of this high esteem. It was built. Had to be created. 496 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: It had to um do good and and have students 497 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: who were successful to have that reputation to build the reputation. 498 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: Here's the deal. The school didn't have a bunch of money, 499 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: and it didn't have it was lacking a lot of things, 500 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: and it almost got shut down in eighteen thirty eight. 501 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: Like we said, it's been around for a long time. 502 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: And you know, let's say you're a university in college, 503 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: what do you do to get extra funds, have some 504 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: kind of fundraiser, you know, call up those alumni and say, hey, 505 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: I know you're you're in Congress now, would be great 506 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: to get a little something something from the university for 507 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: the generations next. Um. Well, what Georgetown University unfortunately did 508 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty eight when they were in trouble is 509 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: they sold human beings to stay afloat. So Georgetown was 510 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: founded in January of seventeen eighty nine, and thin the 511 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: road to success was rocky for the institution. They did 512 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,439 Speaker 1: participate in the slave trade, and they did it more 513 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: than once. It wasn't just eighteen thirty eight. We're on 514 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: such a here's where it gets worse mission today. Man. 515 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: Uh So, they had conducted individual slave trade transactions before. 516 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: And it turns out that more than a dozen universities, 517 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: including Ivy League players like Harvard and Columbia, have publicly 518 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: recognized their ties to slavery and to the slave trade. 519 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: But the eight transaction from the people who are running Georgetown, 520 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: it stands out due to the sheer number of human 521 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: beings involved. Ben, did did you mention already that the 522 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: the group the Jesuits helped out in this pursuit. Oh no, yes, 523 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: very good point, speaking of another institution with some skeleton 524 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: in the closet. Yes, Uh, the the Jesuit Order ran 525 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: Georgetown at the time of this transaction or this crime, 526 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: and uh, they were instrumental in in the in the 527 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: a series of events. And just so you know, we 528 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: have a whole episode on this group the Jesuits called 529 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: the Jesuits Fact and fiction. You can find it, I 530 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: believe in many places. It came out a long time 531 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: ago in Oh goodness. So so you may have to, uh, 532 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: you may have to wait for the classic to come 533 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: out if you're an Apple podcast only listener, but otherwise 534 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: you can find it on other podcast outlets like I 535 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: Heart Radios app. Okay, all right, it didn't mean to 536 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: derailists there, no, no, no, it was perfect. I have 537 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: just that I have been awe. I think you win 538 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: this the if if I did if I did a 539 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: seven on a segue, you, my friend just did an 540 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: eight point five on the on the mentions on the callouts. Yeah, 541 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: so so we are you know, we do want to 542 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: be honest with you, folks. We're working to inject a 543 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: little bit of levity in in this episode because these 544 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: are truly, um, these are unclean things. So here's what 545 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: happens in uh desperate bid to survive and become the 546 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: amazing institution it is today. Georgetown sold off two hundred 547 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: and seventy two people in eighteen thirty eight. They shipped 548 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: these people to the Deep South. They can signed them 549 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: to a life of horror on plantations in Cotton Country. 550 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: And the thing is that George out in this time, 551 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: slavery and scholarship were inextricably linked. Yeah it was. It 552 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: wasn't just selling the slaves, it was then using slaves 553 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: to make money, um, and then using that money to 554 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: make the institute just function on a regular basis. Were 555 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: they relied on these Jesuit plantations, and most a lot 556 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: of them were in Maryland. They these things would finance 557 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: everything in the operations. It's so weird. There were even 558 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: people at Georgetown who were working with Georgetown who quote 559 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: unquote donated slaves to this pursuit. And this eight transaction 560 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: netted the college more than a little more than three 561 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: million dollars in today's time. So this was massively profitable. 562 00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: You know what you're thinking. The people doing this are 563 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:08,280 Speaker 1: members of a spiritual order one that believes in good 564 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:14,760 Speaker 1: and noble things. So surely some priests objected, right, that's correct. Fortunately, yes, 565 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 1: some priests did object vocally, vociferous lee, and they tried 566 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: their best to prevent the sale of human beings. That 567 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: sounds good to hear until you understand why they had 568 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: a problem with it. Exactly, it's not quite what you think. Yeah, 569 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: please join me in throwing up in your mouth a 570 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: little bit as we go through this. They weren't objecting 571 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: to the physical dangers they were putting these people in 572 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: by you know, trading them to force them to go 573 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: and work. They weren't even objecting to the concept of 574 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,959 Speaker 1: selling human beings at all. What they were worried about 575 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: was religion. They were worried about the Southern owners of 576 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: these plantations forcing the slaves, the people that they were selling, 577 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: to practice Protestantism instead of Catholicism, because that would have 578 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: been really, really bad. Yeah, that was the line. You know. 579 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: One thing, one fantastic thing that Georgetown has done, however, 580 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: is to acknowledge and address this and study this and 581 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: learn from it. There's in a story at Georgetown named 582 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: Adam Rothman who noted, quote the university itself owes its 583 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: existence to this history, and Georgetown has been taking steps 584 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:37,839 Speaker 1: to evolved. In just last year, two years ago now, 585 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,240 Speaker 1: the college announced it would launch a new fundraising effort 586 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: to assist the living descendants of the two hundred and 587 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: seventy two enslaved people who were sold by the school's founders, 588 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: which I think is you know, um, I think that 589 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: speaks highly to the institution. Yeah, it really does it 590 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: some of them. It is so counterintuitive when you think 591 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: about it, because you hear fundraising effort. Oh, they're going 592 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: to raise other people's money to pay for their thing 593 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 1: that they did. But you know, it is a it 594 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: is a college, and it does cost a lot of 595 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 1: money for for one of these things to functions. So 596 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: you can't just pull all of the money out unless 597 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: you're going to risk closing the school down or forcing 598 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: it to shut down for a bit. But goodness, it's 599 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: something like that just gives me mixed feelings, I suppose. 600 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: But the here's the great thing. It Georgetown changed its 601 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: tune and a lot of this was occurring because of 602 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: internal pressure from students they are educating, which is actually 603 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: a great It's a fantastic sign right, that the organization itself, 604 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: uh maybe is evolving alongside its students. Yeah, the the 605 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: students George Sound voted six six months before that announcement. 606 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, the students Georgetown voted to institute a 607 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: twenty seven dollar and twenty cents student fee that would 608 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 1: go entirely to supporting the descendants of the victims of 609 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:24,760 Speaker 1: this crime. And honestly, it is it is an amazing step. 610 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: I I know it's there's no way you can change 611 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: the past, but this is an important step in the 612 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: right direction. So we have some light at the end 613 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,359 Speaker 1: of the tunnel with Georgetown. Right, We've explored medicine, we've 614 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: explored the environment, we've explored academia. Now we're gonna pause 615 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor and we'll return with one 616 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: more And it is a doozy and we're back. Hey. 617 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: Remember at the top of this episode when I mentioned 618 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,320 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about populo control again. Well we're here. 619 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 1: Let's let's introduce a little organization called Planned Parenthood. You 620 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: know what you've heard of it. Regardless of your personal values, 621 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: your personal beliefs, you are familiar in some way with 622 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: this organization. It was founded by Margaret Sanger, who opened 623 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: her first birth control clinic in nineteen sixteen. Then she 624 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: went on to form the American Birth Control League in 625 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one. In ninety two, the name was changed 626 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: to Planned Parenthood. Today, the organization is active in some 627 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: capacity in multiple countries. It operates over six hundred health 628 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,919 Speaker 1: clinics through its affiliate network in the US alone. It's 629 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 1: best known, of course, for reproductive health services for sex 630 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: ed sexual education. It is the largest single provider of 631 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 1: these services in the US, and it also works to 632 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: prevent the spread of disease. It also offers cancer screens. 633 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: It is for many people, a life saving institution. Make 634 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 1: no mistake, this organization has done so much good in 635 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: the world. It truly has. And if you cannot acknowledge 636 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,799 Speaker 1: that or see that, there's you you. I urge you 637 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: to re examine or rethink the good parts, because there 638 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: truly has been great things that this this organization has done. 639 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,919 Speaker 1: Pretty cool. Not to have cancer, that's one, well, yeah, 640 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 1: And and just reproductive health in general, for for women 641 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,240 Speaker 1: and to be able to take control of their lives 642 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,000 Speaker 1: and their bodies. This, I mean, this is this institution 643 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: is instrumental in just empowering women. Yeah, that's objectively true. 644 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: But the thing about this life saving institution is that 645 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: the fact wounder I didn't want to save everybody's life. Uh, 646 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: Sanger wanted to save the right kind of lives as 647 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:13,839 Speaker 1: she saw it, because she was a eugenicist. Yes, eugenics 648 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: was this discipline, I would say, from back in the day, 649 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: but unfortunately it still exists in um. It was championed 650 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:27,320 Speaker 1: by a lot of people, prominent people, scientists who existed 651 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 1: in the world, who were at the tops of their fields. Um. 652 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: It is now widely debunked. But it promoted good breeding. 653 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,280 Speaker 1: This is in quotes good breeding and aimed to prevent 654 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 1: poor breeding. Now good and poor breeding. That sounds a 655 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: little subjective. That's because it is. Yeah, that's the thing. 656 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,879 Speaker 1: It's not. It's not a good scientific basis for eugenics 657 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 1: as described desire and practiced by h by people in 658 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: Singer's time. Singer like, the basic idea is that the 659 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: overall human species can be improved through encouraging reproduction in 660 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,799 Speaker 1: people with traits like well, to their to their mind, 661 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 1: it was stuff like intelligence, hard work, and cleanliness. They 662 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: we don't have a full scientific understanding of intelligence and 663 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: hard work and cleanliness are pretty much opinions, pretty much opinions. 664 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 1: So the the most terrifying example of eugenics motivated crimes 665 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: our acts of genocide, that that is, that is one 666 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: ultimate destination for that line of thinking. Saner thought that 667 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: poverty and what she described as unwanted nous where the 668 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: main reasons children might grow up to be in some 669 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: way there, her opinion, morally or physically defective. And so 670 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,480 Speaker 1: Singer came up with a solution. There was an idea 671 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,720 Speaker 1: where if someone exhibited birth defects of one kind or another, 672 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,319 Speaker 1: Singer would advocate that they be sent away literally sent 673 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: away to a farm somewhere very very far away and 674 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: segregating from the rest of the population to make sure 675 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: that they are unable to even physically have relations with someone. 676 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 1: And therefore children, um, and if they were going to 677 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: mingle within all the other people in society, they would 678 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,600 Speaker 1: need to be sterilized. Right, Yeah, So what what is 679 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,879 Speaker 1: a defect? To Singer? A defect, it could be anything, uh, 680 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: a physical deformity, even if it's one that is not 681 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 1: genetically reproducible, right, a physical deformity or a perceived lack 682 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 1: of moral fiber, whatever the hell that is. So there 683 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: was huge potential for people to be carded off just 684 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,879 Speaker 1: because their behavior did not fit into social norms of 685 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: the time. This bit of history had a dubious moment 686 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: in the spotlight when the politician Ben Carson claimed that 687 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:22,000 Speaker 1: Singer was racist in part of a larger attack on 688 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:27,760 Speaker 1: planned parenthood to support Carson's aim of making abortion illegal 689 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: in the United States. So, if you check with primary sources, 690 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: by which we mean things written by Singer herself about 691 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: her views, her attitudes on race are doubtlessly problematic and 692 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 1: paternalistic today, but at the time they might have been 693 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 1: seen as somewhat progressive. For example, in n she wrote 694 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,160 Speaker 1: that all women, regardless of their ostensible race, should have 695 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,920 Speaker 1: a voice in how many children they have. I feel 696 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,799 Speaker 1: like there's a very reasonable thing, right Like, if you're 697 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,759 Speaker 1: if you're if you're listening, and you have or you 698 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,400 Speaker 1: plan to have children, then doesn't it feel like the 699 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: number of children you have should be kind of up 700 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:19,839 Speaker 1: to you. Yeah? Absolutely, uh, yeah, we're mentioning some things 701 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,719 Speaker 1: that Margaret Singer said. There are lots of places you 702 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:26,080 Speaker 1: can go online to do further research. I would recommend 703 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,800 Speaker 1: a an opinion piece from USA Today. It is called 704 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:34,160 Speaker 1: removed statuses of Margaret Singer, Planned Parenthood founder tied to 705 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,120 Speaker 1: eugenics and racism. Again, this is an opinion piece on 706 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,279 Speaker 1: USA Today, so keep that in mind if you do 707 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,360 Speaker 1: choose to read it. What I would recommend is look 708 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:48,240 Speaker 1: at the supporting links that are in the article, because 709 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,320 Speaker 1: that is the kind of thing that Ben is referring 710 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 1: to here. These are actual words that you can find 711 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: that we're spoken by Margaret Singer. Yeah, and this with this, 712 00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:00,840 Speaker 1: we're drawing our episode to a close. We have just 713 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: scratched the tip of the iceberg here. And again there's 714 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:10,440 Speaker 1: a dilemma. The conundrum is this the following the institutions, 715 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,760 Speaker 1: Every institution that we have mentioned in today's show has 716 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: inarguably objectively done awesome, amazing things for the world and 717 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:25,120 Speaker 1: the people within it today, and we can't we cannot 718 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: discount this work. Uh This, this tremendously good work for 719 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: the world. But we also cannot be blind to the 720 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:42,879 Speaker 1: to the origins of some of these movements, and we 721 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,799 Speaker 1: know that there are many many more out there. We 722 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,959 Speaker 1: would like to hear from you, uh in in our 723 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: examples today the institutions have all made or attempted to 724 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 1: make amends for their past. But what other stories are 725 00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:01,959 Speaker 1: out there? What are what are some more strange, disturbing 726 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,680 Speaker 1: origin stories that you're aware of. What would you like 727 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,239 Speaker 1: to share with our fellow listeners? Let us know. You 728 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,279 Speaker 1: can find us on the internet where on Facebook, We're 729 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: on Instagram, We're on Twitter. We like to recommend here's 730 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:16,520 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy, where you can hang out, see 731 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,560 Speaker 1: some very weird stuff, see some news. It's been rated 732 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: uh the best page on the internet. Uh, five times 733 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,360 Speaker 1: in a row by us arbitrarily at the end of 734 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,799 Speaker 1: some of our shows. Yeah, definitely not Forbes magazine. They 735 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. Um I Before you do, 736 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,960 Speaker 1: I want to recommend one more, one more piece to read. 737 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,719 Speaker 1: Just I'm so sorry we didn't get to spend a 738 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: lot of time on Margaret Sanger. I want to recommend 739 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,840 Speaker 1: a piece from the Atlantic called Abortions of Racial Gap. 740 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,200 Speaker 1: This is another just important piece of information that you 741 00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,239 Speaker 1: could add into the puzzle that is your mind when 742 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,359 Speaker 1: thinking about all of this stuff. It's worth it. Check 743 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 1: it out. If you don't want to find us on 744 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,480 Speaker 1: social media, because that's not your thing. You can always 745 00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: give us a call. Our number is one eight three 746 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,880 Speaker 1: three st d w y t K. Leave a message. 747 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,400 Speaker 1: It may go into one of our listener mail episodes. 748 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,240 Speaker 1: Please let us know what you'd like to be called, 749 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 1: as well as if you give us permission to use 750 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: your voice on the show, that would be fantastic. And 751 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,560 Speaker 1: do know and be aware if you call in, the 752 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,440 Speaker 1: number from which you call gets logged, so I can 753 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,879 Speaker 1: see it, Ben can see it. We can see you're 754 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 1: the number that you call in from. If you wish 755 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,760 Speaker 1: to obfuskate that you can, you know, use a different number, 756 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,960 Speaker 1: like a Google Voice number or something like that. Otherwise 757 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: you might get a call back on yourself from me. 758 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,399 Speaker 1: So good luck to you somewhat ominous there. Man. Well, 759 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:46,879 Speaker 1: if you get a call for me, it's like it's 760 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,359 Speaker 1: a game over. Man, we're gonna talk. So, if you 761 00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,799 Speaker 1: don't care for social media, if you don't care for telephones, 762 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,640 Speaker 1: but you have a story you need to share, or 763 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,000 Speaker 1: even better, a suggestion for a topic we can cover 764 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:06,879 Speaker 1: in the future, there's always one other way to contact us. 765 00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,279 Speaker 1: It is our good old fashioned email address where we 766 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:32,680 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at I heart radio dot com. Stuff they 767 00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,600 Speaker 1: don't Want You to Know is a production of I 768 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 769 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,680 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 770 00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:41,840 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.