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Speaker 1: The coin Vierea Podcast is a production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to the coin Vierea Podcast. My name is

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Speaker 1: Guy and my name is Mad Mike Mooch. Welcome head

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Speaker 1: Mike Mooch. It's it's been quite a week, hasn't it.

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Speaker 1: It's been interesting. You've been I guess I take it

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Speaker 1: you've been kind of following what's been going on. I know,

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Speaker 1: we I know, we sort of texted a bit during

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Speaker 1: the weekend. I've I've had to I tell you what,

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Speaker 1: I've had a lot of interesting conversations with people and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people sort of giving their opinion on

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Speaker 1: what's happening, and um, yeah, it's kind of I've been

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Speaker 1: listening a lots and and it's been interesting on different

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Speaker 1: people's different opinions on things. Some people don't know what

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Speaker 1: they're talking about, like and that's very apparent. I think

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Speaker 1: there's been there's been a lot of confusion out there,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people sort of I mean, basically, I

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Speaker 1: guess a lot of people's interaction with with the crypto

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Speaker 1: market is to kind of look at the charts and

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Speaker 1: they've just seen sort of read everywhere. And yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's important that we do this episode to kind

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Speaker 1: of dig into what's happened a little bit because this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, these past few days have been some

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Speaker 1: of the most eventful, certainly in recent memory for Crypto

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Speaker 1: and I think I think in the general overall history

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Speaker 1: as well, this kind of ranks up there with some

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Speaker 1: of the biggest I guess disasters. If you like, it's

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Speaker 1: not been a good week, and there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions flying around, a lot of uncertainty, a lot

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Speaker 1: of fear, a lot of doubt. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: important that we, yeah, that we address those. So that'll

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Speaker 1: talk about it, Yeah, talk about It's sort of a

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Speaker 1: crypto therapy exactly, see what's happened, figure out how it

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Speaker 1: is affecting you, and what can be done. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I think hopefully as well take some lessons from the

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Speaker 1: whole thing, because there are some Yeah, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of us have learned some very hard lessons this

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Speaker 1: last week or so. And yeah, I mean, don't let

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Speaker 1: a good crisis go to waste. You've got to, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've got to take something out of it. So hopefully

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Speaker 1: we'll end this episode by being everyone a little bit

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Speaker 1: the wiser. So this is obviously another scrange. Strange another

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Speaker 1: change to our scheduled programming, because yeah, I was going

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Speaker 1: to bring you an episode about about ethereum this week.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think, as I said, it's important too,

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Speaker 1: it's important to address what's going on currently. So let's

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Speaker 1: get into it then. So do you remember in the

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Speaker 1: last episode this was kind of all kicking off because

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Speaker 1: we were talking about some of the factors that was

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Speaker 1: tanking the cryptomarket at that time, and the main ones

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Speaker 1: were obviously kind of global macro factors, and they kind

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Speaker 1: of boiled down to, if you like, basically COVID and

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Speaker 1: after after afterwards, yeah, the hangover, Yeah, yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: mean that kind of encompassed quite a lot in its

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Speaker 1: sort of rising interest rates, supply chain problems, inflation, and

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Speaker 1: obviously the other kind of big factor weighing on the

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Speaker 1: markets as well was the war in Ukraine, which is

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Speaker 1: again kind of exacerbating all those other factors that I

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Speaker 1: just mentioned, and the fact that the world is just

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Speaker 1: generally a very dangerous and uncertain place at the best

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Speaker 1: of times, but even more so now. And we also

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Speaker 1: mentioned some crypto specific factors too, and this was kind

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Speaker 1: of just kicking off when we recorded that episode last week,

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Speaker 1: and that was the destabilization of TERROR and the deep

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Speaker 1: pegging of U s T, the stable coin, the US

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Speaker 1: dollar pegg stable coin that it's supported. Now as that

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Speaker 1: week war on, that situation got a whole lot worse,

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Speaker 1: um and I'll give you some we'll we'll go through

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Speaker 1: some facts and figures in the moment that we'll put

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Speaker 1: it in pretty uh highlighted, pretty starkly. So just a

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Speaker 1: quick reminder, Terror was Terror is a stable coin protocol,

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Speaker 1: and it used this kind of mint and burn mechanism

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Speaker 1: with its native coin, which is called Lunar, and this

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Speaker 1: helped to maintain the dollar peg of U s T.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, if if us T, you know, you could

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Speaker 1: burn Lunar to mint U s T, and this kind

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Speaker 1: of this mechanism basically kept it adjusted the supply of

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Speaker 1: U s T in order to sort of keep it

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Speaker 1: on its dollar peg. And if you want a more

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Speaker 1: detailed explanation of that, you can there are loads of

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Speaker 1: videos about it on coin Virea's YouTube. And obviously we

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Speaker 1: talked about it in the last episode. Now as the

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Speaker 1: market was tanking because of all the factors that we

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Speaker 1: were talking about last week, the macro factors, a death

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Speaker 1: spiral set in, so Lunar's price fell. This caused us

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Speaker 1: T holders to worry that us T might slip off

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Speaker 1: its peg. They basically lost confidence in us T. They

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Speaker 1: sold their us T. Yeah, and this meant more Lunar

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Speaker 1: had to be minted, which increased its supply. And then

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Speaker 1: and that obviously pushed the rice of Lunar down further,

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Speaker 1: and the whole cycle sort of started again, hence the

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Speaker 1: term death spiral. And I guess basically what happened was

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Speaker 1: there was a bank run on us T. Everyone tried

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Speaker 1: to get their us T out of wherever they had it.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people had it in something in a

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Speaker 1: decentralized lending protocol called anchor protocol where they were getting

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Speaker 1: sort of around per year interest. So people basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had a bank run and the whole terror project collapsed.

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Speaker 1: Now Here are some facts and figures. Luna was eighty

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Speaker 1: dollars on Friday, the sixth of May, so yeah, not

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Speaker 1: all that long ago. It is now no eighty dollars.

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Speaker 1: Lunar was eighty dollars, now, down from a high of

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Speaker 1: around a hundred and ten dollars. But on Friday, the

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Speaker 1: sixth of May, Lunar was eighty dollars. It is now

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Speaker 1: if I go into coin geck, it is now our

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Speaker 1: zero point zero zero zero one eight seven zero zero cents.

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Speaker 1: So now is the time to get in. Now is

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Speaker 1: basically Lunar is dead. It has gone. Yeah, it has

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Speaker 1: gone from eighty dollars to a fraction of assent. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And what this obviously means, Yeah, yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's the only really word, the only word that does

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Speaker 1: it justice year wow or something a bit stronger perhaps, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have lost a lot of money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars have been lost, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people were frankly ruined. Terror had a market cap of

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Speaker 1: around forty billion dollars. It was a top ten crypto.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, the terror itself that the protocol had recently

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Speaker 1: bought around one point five billion dollars worth of bitcoin

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Speaker 1: in order to kind of back us t up further

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Speaker 1: and had to basically sell virtually all of it off

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Speaker 1: to try and rescue ust. But this failed, and that's gone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it's gone from the Lunar Foundation GUARD, which which

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Speaker 1: is the nonprofit which kind of coordinates terrors development. It's

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Speaker 1: it published its reserves. Recently, it had had about eighty

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Speaker 1: tho btc and its reserves amongst other it's now down

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Speaker 1: to about three btc and I mean that's yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: not going to last either. So and obviously what this

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Speaker 1: meant was because all this BTC was being sold that bitcoin. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that further pushed the push the price of bitcoin down

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Speaker 1: and further tank the market. And it was it was rough.

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Speaker 1: I mean you were just basically just watching Lunar and

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Speaker 1: ust in free fall and everything else as a result

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Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, it kind of just rippled across the

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Speaker 1: market and always saw always just a downward Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And if you look at the graphs, I mean,

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Speaker 1: particularly for Lunar, it's just a straight drop what we

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Speaker 1: call a falling knife. And yeah, so a lot of

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Speaker 1: people were hoping that somehow Terror might get bailed out.

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Speaker 1: There was talk of vcs basically pumping money into it.

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Speaker 1: I think a few did, but it wasn't enough. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's basically tipping it into a into a bottomless pit,

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Speaker 1: really and a lot of pain. Ust slipped its peg dramatically.

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Speaker 1: I mean, bear in mind, this is a stable coin

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Speaker 1: that is meant to meant to maintain a one dollar valuation. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it kind of yo yoed around for a bit. So

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Speaker 1: it's slipped, right. I mean at one point it sort

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Speaker 1: of went down to about twenty cents. It bounced up

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Speaker 1: a bit, it managed to you know, it managed to

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Speaker 1: kind of get back to eighty cents for a while,

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Speaker 1: and it is now let's have a look at the graph.

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Speaker 1: It's now about nine cents. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, just

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Speaker 1: just hovering around the ten cent mark. So yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I mean it got pretty dark really and if you

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Speaker 1: spent time on crypto Twitter, someone showed me the Reddit

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Speaker 1: page for for terror from for Lunar and that was

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Speaker 1: that was bleak. That was really really bleak, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, i mean there were reports of people

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Speaker 1: committing suicide. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was terrible. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: so basically a hell of a lot of pain has

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Speaker 1: has resulted in this, and billions of dollars have been lost.

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Speaker 1: And as we're gonna we're going to talk about this

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Speaker 1: a little later on because a lot of people are asking, well, gone, yeah,

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Speaker 1: whereas it gone? Can it be? Can terror be resurrected?

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Speaker 1: Is there is their hope? And that's something I want

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Speaker 1: to address sort of a little later on. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: the kind of focus of a lot of people's anger

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Speaker 1: and frustration and rage and just general interest has been

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Speaker 1: the founder of terror, this guy do Quon. And Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's probably fair to say that at the

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Speaker 1: moment he has the not particularly covered the title of

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Speaker 1: the most unpopular person in crypto. Yeah, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to dig into that into shortly kind of why that is,

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Speaker 1: because that's not you know, it's not just a case

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Speaker 1: that he was he was at the helm when the

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Speaker 1: when the ship went down. There's there's there's a lot

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Speaker 1: more to it than that. Has he got to checkered

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Speaker 1: past or well a little bit, but I mean he

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Speaker 1: it turned out one of the things that people discovered

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Speaker 1: in in the wake of this was that he'd been

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Speaker 1: involved in a failed stable coin project before, which not

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Speaker 1: a lot of people knew about. And so yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean a lot of people have been weighing in with that,

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Speaker 1: But it's more kind of about how he's behaved in

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Speaker 1: recent in recent weeks and months, especially in the lead

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Speaker 1: up to this. Yeah. Yeah, Um, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: go through some of his some of his tweets and

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Speaker 1: a bit. But before we do that, I just want

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Speaker 1: to look over a few of the very hard lessons

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Speaker 1: that we've learned, and for anyone listening, I should say

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Speaker 1: that that I lost a fair bit of money in

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Speaker 1: all of this. I mean, uh, Luna and Ust, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were I basically lost everything I had in Luna.

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Speaker 1: Luna made up about two and a half percent of

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Speaker 1: my portfolios, so you know, in percentage terms, not a

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Speaker 1: massive amount, but I mean it's not a nice amount

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Speaker 1: to lose. And Ust I managed to get out of

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Speaker 1: once I saw that it was, once I realized that

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Speaker 1: it was not going to be salvaged, I managed to

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Speaker 1: sell out sort of between the kind of seventy and

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Speaker 1: nine mark um. So I didn't lose the lot, but

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Speaker 1: I certainly took a hit on that. I would say

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Speaker 1: overall kind of losses about three to four percent of

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Speaker 1: my sort of total crypto holdings, which is not nearly

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Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: not nearly as much as some people and as we're

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Speaker 1: going to touch on in a minute, some people have

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Speaker 1: lost taken really serious losses. But yeah, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: been good. So I think the first hard lesson that

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Speaker 1: we must take. And yeah, I mean a lot of

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Speaker 1: people will be you know, we'll hear what we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about now, and he's sort of like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's easy to say that in retrospect, but

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Speaker 1: I mean this is this is all stuff that's been

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Speaker 1: out there before and that I have talked about in

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Speaker 1: you know before when it comes to investing, not just

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Speaker 1: in crypto but in anything. But I guess the first

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Speaker 1: hard lesson is do not invest more than you can

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Speaker 1: afford to lose. Yeah, this is one of those moments

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Speaker 1: where that phrase sort of gets rammed down people's throats again.

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Speaker 1: But I mean it's true, isn't it. And the same

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Speaker 1: with gambling. Yeah, you know you go and you you know,

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Speaker 1: you throw away what what you know or you you

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Speaker 1: you put down what you can afford to to throw away. Essentially, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're hoping to get a bit more. I mean, not

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Speaker 1: that this is gambling, kind of kind of is because

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Speaker 1: you know, you're you're not always in control of it,

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Speaker 1: but you have a bit more of an insight onto it.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, the house doesn't always win. The house doesn't

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Speaker 1: always win. I think when when when the house loses,

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Speaker 1: everyone loses when it. Yeah, exactly exactly, And I mean, yeah, look,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's not like it's not like people were

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Speaker 1: all in on a ship. Coin Terror was a very

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Speaker 1: well respected project. It was a top ten crypto. It

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Speaker 1: ha flews at risk when you imbursed. Capital is most

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Speaker 1: certainly at risk. Yeah. So yeah, so unfortunately, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you look on Twitter, a lot of people had

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Speaker 1: put their life savings, sold their homes, kids, college funds,

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Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff to go all in on

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Speaker 1: lunar And yeah, I mean that's just thinking about that

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Speaker 1: is horrible enough. So what that must actually be like

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Speaker 1: for those people, I I just can't imagine. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have to set we have to circle back to

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Speaker 1: the always like you always need to just understand that,

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Speaker 1: like at the end of the day, that everything is salvageable,

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Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, don't don't. You've you've got your

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Speaker 1: you've got other things that are important in your life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a horrible thing to lose money,

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Speaker 1: but it's not the end of the world. It is.

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Speaker 1: It is bad, don't get me wrong, but don't do

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Speaker 1: anything drastic. Yeah. Yeah, And that's something that's something I'm

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Speaker 1: going to repeat at the end of this episode because

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Speaker 1: there may well be people listening who have who have

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Speaker 1: suffered some really heavy losses. And yeah, life does go

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Speaker 1: on and you can come back for this from this,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, please don't do please don't do anything anything

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Speaker 1: rash um. So yeah, and I mean, obviously, as I said,

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Speaker 1: this was this was a well respected crypto project. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people felt very strongly about it. And let's

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Speaker 1: face it, there were a lot of incentives as well.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned Anchor Protocol earlier. This this decentralized lending platform

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Speaker 1: that was offering kind of interest. I had a I

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Speaker 1: had a bit of us t on that, and it was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really difficult because you think interest, Well, you

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Speaker 1: were talking to me about that just before. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: like weeks ago, Yeah, and you're like, I want to

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Speaker 1: get you know, I want to get in on that,

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Speaker 1: and the temptation is there to kind of lump in

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Speaker 1: and um, and you know, it's it seems like a

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Speaker 1: no brainer interest, but you don't know what what is

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Speaker 1: going to happen in the ground scheme of things. But

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Speaker 1: then again, that's the same with putting your money into

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Speaker 1: a bank. You know in here with the UK had

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Speaker 1: a thing of in recent memory from Northern Rock. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was a bank run on on that bank run

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Speaker 1: on Northern Rock. A lot of people lost their money

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Speaker 1: because everyone just took their money out and they couldn't

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Speaker 1: stay afloat. It really happened with banker Scotland, didn't it

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Speaker 1: as well? All, I think the government with a lot

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Speaker 1: of banks. Yeah, and it's not just crypto, this is

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Speaker 1: this is something that happens with stocks and and financial

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Speaker 1: institutions around the world. Yeah. And that actually leads nicely

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Speaker 1: into the other into one of the other hard lessons

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Speaker 1: that I think we need to from this, and that

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Speaker 1: is diversify and that can and and there's there's there's

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Speaker 1: different ways of looking at diversify. I mean, certainly diversify

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Speaker 1: what you invest in. So if you're investing in crypto,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't have it all on one project because

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Speaker 1: as we've as we've learned this last week, even even

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Speaker 1: big projects are vulnerable. No project is too big to

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Speaker 1: fail by different types of apes. Yeah, apin apin, oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't yeah, don't put it all on don't put it

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Speaker 1: all on one eight yeah, do it on melancholy badger.

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Speaker 1: Was it agressed badger prayer? That that was going to

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Speaker 1: be our n f T project, wasn't it? That's in

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Speaker 1: the works. Yeah. Diversify what you hold and also where

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Speaker 1: you hold it. This is really important because I always

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Speaker 1: say that you should. You know that people should self

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Speaker 1: custody their crypto. I keep most of my crypto in

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Speaker 1: cold storage on hardware wallets, but I do also have

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Speaker 1: its spread elsewhere, and that was one of the things

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Speaker 1: that insulated me from further losses. I didn't have everything

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Speaker 1: all my us T on anchor protocol, however tempting it

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Speaker 1: was to get interest on it. So if you're if

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Speaker 1: you've got a crypto portfolio, think think about diversifying it.

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Speaker 1: Don't be too concentrated in one or just a what

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Speaker 1: small handful of coins or tokens. Consider holding some of

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Speaker 1: it on hardware wallets or you know, you can have

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Speaker 1: software while it's mobile wallets, things like that. And also

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Speaker 1: if you are going to keep it on exchanges or

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Speaker 1: in lending and borrowing protocols, or on lending platforms anything

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Speaker 1: like that, then don't keep it all in one place

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Speaker 1: because that particular platform however much however, legit it looks. However,

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Speaker 1: however much security it claims to have, it is still vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: So you need to keep things spread and then if

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Speaker 1: if something does collapse, you might lose a bit, but

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Speaker 1: you don't lose it all. So diversify. And another lesson

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Speaker 1: that won't apply to so many people perhaps listening to this,

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Speaker 1: but I've said it a million times before, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to keep saying. It's when you finance or trading

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Speaker 1: with leverage. Yeah, because I mean, this happens every time

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Speaker 1: the crypto market crashes. More people who were long on

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Speaker 1: on an asset they get liquidated, and that that in

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Speaker 1: turn makes the makes the crash in the wider market worse.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people were long on Lunar, basically

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Speaker 1: a lot of people had borrowed money in order to

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Speaker 1: in order to speculate on Lunar's price going up, and

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Speaker 1: they got wiped out. So yeah, I think the first

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Speaker 1: few hard lessons. Please, don't invest more than you can

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Speaker 1: afford to lose. Make sure you're diversified and you're keeping

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Speaker 1: your holding spread across various platforms and wallets, and do

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Speaker 1: not trade with leverage. That is for the big boys,

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Speaker 1: and they get burned by it as well. But you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not so fast about them. They can they can

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Speaker 1: look after them selves with those with those few lessons

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Speaker 1: in mind. Should we take a quick break, all right,

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Speaker 1: have a nice cup of tea, nice soothing cup of tea. Okay,

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Speaker 1: welcome back, folks. Now I want to talk about do

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Speaker 1: Quan again. This this guy who well, who co founded terror.

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Speaker 1: He co founded it with a chap called Daniel Shinn,

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Speaker 1: who I think is you know, who has since moved

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Speaker 1: on to other things. So do Quan has very much

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Speaker 1: been the focal point or terror, not only over the

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Speaker 1: course of this whole catastrophe, but also over the last

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Speaker 1: few months. So we need to talk about do Quan

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Speaker 1: and also about the idea that it is very prevalent

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Speaker 1: in crypto at the moment and elsewhere, but particularly in crypto.

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Speaker 1: This idea of a kind of godlike founder who everyone

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Speaker 1: sort of looks up to, who is very much the

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Speaker 1: focal point the face of yeah, well yeah God, I

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Speaker 1: think is a little bit of a stretch, but certainly,

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Speaker 1: like I think, I think there's a there's a point there,

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Speaker 1: you know. Certainly, certainly the idea of one person who

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Speaker 1: kind of for the wider community sort of embodies the project.

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Speaker 1: To be fair, you are very very vocal about the team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, and that's diversifying the blame, which is good. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: good exactly spreading the blame for my incompetence. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's yeah. This is this is something that we see

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Speaker 1: a lot of in crypto and unfortunately, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that has that has um kind of added to

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Speaker 1: this whole terror debacle is that Doe had in the

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Speaker 1: lead up to this, basically started acting like a bit

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Speaker 1: of a prig. Didn't mention your words that I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's there's no getting away from it. He I mean

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Speaker 1: kind of at the time, he's become very he'd become

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Speaker 1: very well known for sort of you know, very forthright tweeting,

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess you'd call it ship posting whatever,

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Speaker 1: saying what was on his mind and not pulling any punches.

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Speaker 1: And I mean at the time, before all this happened,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of, you know, it was a bit

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Speaker 1: of a spectator sport because it was it was entertaining

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Speaker 1: to see what he'd come up with next. And again,

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Speaker 1: this is something not just for him to learn, but

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Speaker 1: also for all of us to learn as well. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: we need to we need to think about how people

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Speaker 1: behave I think well, to be honest, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: with what he has been tweeting and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: He's not been on my radar, but people do love

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Speaker 1: piling on and seeing people being taken down a peg

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Speaker 1: or two. Absolutely so. And and I'm not sure what

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Speaker 1: he was posting, and I'm not saying that that's not,

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Speaker 1: you know, the valid thing to do, but the stench

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Speaker 1: of schadenfreudes throughout all this and pending the blame on

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Speaker 1: someone is always something that is yeah, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: mean it's I guess do quan Is has to shoulder

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Speaker 1: a lot of the blame for this. It was his,

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Speaker 1: it was his project. And as I'm going to as

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Speaker 1: I'm going to point out in a moment that there

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Speaker 1: were people were aware of the vulnerability, and lots of

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Speaker 1: people had had flagged up the fact that okay, terror

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Speaker 1: was a great project, but there were certain conditions that

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Speaker 1: that could cause something just like this. So we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: come to that in a moment. But I mean, here

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Speaker 1: are a few of sorts fairly recent tweets. Um I'm

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Speaker 1: up amusing morning and on. You could listen to crypto

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Speaker 1: Twitter influencers about us T D pegging for the sixty

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Speaker 1: nine time, or you could remember they're all now poor

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Speaker 1: and go for a run instead. Okay, So, just as

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Speaker 1: I said before, I wasn't really sure of that what

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Speaker 1: he was saying, but this is that. Yeah wild Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So basically calling anyone anyone who criticized is to him

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Speaker 1: or terror or us T poor was a bit of

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Speaker 1: a was a bit of a theme for old do qum.

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Speaker 1: Here's another tweet from July the first, last year. I

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Speaker 1: don't debate the poor on Twitter, and sorry, I don't

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Speaker 1: have any change on me for her at the moment. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Another tweet. Now, this is perhaps the most infamous, infamous

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Speaker 1: one of of the lot, and this is from November

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Speaker 1: of last year. Now, this is in reply to a

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Speaker 1: tweet from a chap called Freddie Reynolds who wrote a

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Speaker 1: few weeks ago. I responded to someone else's tweet with

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Speaker 1: a brief outline of how a wealthy attacker could not

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Speaker 1: only break at terror money but profit heavily doing it

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Speaker 1: with a sorrow style Black Wednesday attack, and below I

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Speaker 1: provide a detailed breakdown one billion dollars around one billion

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Speaker 1: dollars of capital needed. Now is that basically you short it?

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Speaker 1: And then Yeah, Now, a lot of people are speculating

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't just market conditions which caused Terror's collapse.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people there's a lot of suspicion that

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Speaker 1: maybe other parties kind of weighed in to help take

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Speaker 1: terror down. And I think certainly that we just can't

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Speaker 1: know at the moment, and perhaps we never will. Certainly

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Speaker 1: there were people and big institutions shorting terror on the

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Speaker 1: way down, which only made it, only made the situation worse.

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Speaker 1: But basically, what this chap Freddie Reynolds outlined was a

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Speaker 1: perfectly valid weakness in the Terror protocol. Do Quon's response

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Speaker 1: was probably the most retarded thread I've read this decade.

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Speaker 1: Silence is a perfectly acceptable option if stupid billionaires. In

427
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: my following, go ahead, see what happens. Yeah. So, and

428
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, this has been retweeted a lot

429
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: over the last few days. And yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah,

430
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: there's a there's a there's a stanch of arrogance, not stanch. Yeah,

431
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: it reeks of varrogant. Yeah, it's kind of wow. Yeah,

432
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: And I mean just that, I mean the language itself

433
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: is pretty terrible, you know, just just dismissing, dismissing a

434
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: valid criticism as retarded. I mean, he's perfectly within his

435
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: rights to disagree, but you know, just just dismissing it

436
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: out of hand like that. It's yeah, it's arrogance. Really. Um.

437
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: There was also an infamous interview where he said that

438
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: that of companies will die and watching them die will

439
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: be fun. So, as you can imagine, that has also

440
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: been retweeted, reposted and a lot over the last few days.

441
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: And and yeah, basically that sound that you can hear

442
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: in the background is is all his chickens coming home

443
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: to roost basically, and a lot of people, as I said,

444
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: there's a lot of scharden freude out there. And I

445
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: don't feel sorry for him obviously, when when when someone

446
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: is quite that or it's yeah, there is a starting

447
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: for it, but like you also got to remember that

448
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: there's lots of people who have been collateral damage with this. Yeah, yeah, this,

449
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: this kind of arrogance has has has more severe consequences

450
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: than Yeah, It's about a lot more than just kind

451
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: of ramming this guy's Yeah, Now, this is something that

452
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about a lot over the last week,

453
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: and it's something that I'm going to work into my

454
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to have in my research for

455
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: crypto projects in the future. Now, I think basically having

456
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: one all powerful figure at the top of a crypto

457
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: project is not a good idea. It's basically a red

458
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: flag for me now. And I think this is something

459
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: that that other people have realized, although other much smarter

460
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: people than me have realized in the past, like it's

461
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: it's very it's very dangerous to kind of speculate on

462
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 1: what Stoce Nakamoto's motivations may have been, but I think

463
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: it's highly likely that whoever he, she or they were,

464
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: they I think realized that their continued presence kind of

465
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: jeopardized Bitcoin, and I think that could be one of

466
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: the main reasons why they disappeared, why Satoshi has not

467
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: been heard of for years, is because they realized that

468
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: if they were a visible presence, then that was something

469
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: that could be you know, they were something that could

470
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 1: be attacked. They were a weakness in Bitcoin's armor. And

471
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: I think more recently the talk Vitalic Buterian that the

472
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: founder of Ethereum, who is still very much kind of,

473
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: you know, the face of the theorem, but probably the

474
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: most well known figure in all of crypto. He I

475
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: think has realized this too, and has gone to great

476
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: efforts to decentralize Ethereum to to sort of remove himself,

477
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: you know, from from being too central to the project.

478
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: And I mean we're going to talk about in one

479
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: of the upcoming Ethereum episodes. There was an incidant a

480
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: few years ago where a rumors started that he had

481
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: been killed in a car crash, and the etherory in

482
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: price sort of took a bit of a plunge. It

483
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: recovered very quickly, especially after he posted a photo of

484
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: himself with the latest Ethereum block hash to sort of

485
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 1: prove he was alive. But yeah, he's and and Vitallic

486
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: has talked about the importance of decentralization a lot in

487
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: the past, so he he certainly understands that that he

488
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: can't be central to the Ethereum project. The Ethereum needs

489
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: to be bigger, needs to be about a lot more

490
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: than just him. And like I said, I think Satoshi

491
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: as well could well have could well have believed a

492
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: similar thing. Now it's not necessarily about this person at

493
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: the top being arrogant, you know, like in do Quan's case,

494
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: or or stupid. But it's a single point their influence. Yeah,

495
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, and if if if if people are investing

496
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: in the character as opposed to the protocol and the project,

497
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 1: and that that that character is removable or you know,

498
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: influence of influenced or you know, just goes yeah, then

499
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: then you know, it has a massive impact on there's

500
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: I mean, these people are human beings only. I mean

501
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: in the case of people like Cetocean and Vitarlic some

502
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: of the you know, I don't think it's hype to

503
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: call them geniuses because they really they really are. But

504
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: a genius is still is still a human. Yeah, a

505
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: genius can still be coerced, They can still be bribed

506
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: and timidated, threatens, all this sort of stuff. You know.

507
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: So having a having one single point of failure, one

508
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: single human whose whose presence you know, is too influential,

509
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: it's just dangerous. And it's contrary to the ethos of

510
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: decentralization that we've talked about so many times, and it's

511
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: so central to cryptocurrency. It's one of the fundamentals of

512
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: blockchain and crypto and having a single point of failure

513
00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: is is centralized. And I mean it's interesting because do

514
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: Quan himself had already been targeted by regulators in the past.

515
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: There was there was a Massari main net conference back

516
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: in September last year, and he was famously served with

517
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: a subpoena by the SEC about literally just as he

518
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: was about to walk on stage at that conference. And

519
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: this was over This was over another DAP on terror.

520
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: I think it was over mirror protocol, which kind of

521
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: offered sort of mirrored stocks if you like. I won't

522
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: go into that here, but basically, yeah, he was he

523
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: was targeted by regulators. So already there were that there

524
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: was something pointing towards the fact that he was probably

525
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: too prominent a part of terror. Now this and this

526
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: is something again that I've I've mentioned a few times.

527
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm curious to get your to get your thoughts on this,

528
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: because this seems to me to be something that's kind

529
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: of spilled over from the wider world of tech. This

530
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: this idea of this kind of this jobs or the

531
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: build gates. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, these kind of semii

532
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: semi godlike figures at the top of these projects, who

533
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: people who people Revere and who have just massive influence

534
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: over these these huge corporations. And I think Steve Jobs

535
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: is probably the best example of that. I mean, he's

536
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: certainly not the first sort of ultra charismatic ceo, kind

537
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: of visionary viewing, um, but certainly he was Apple for

538
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: many many years, wasn't he? And Okay, without him, Apple

539
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: has has continued to I mean, it's it's what the

540
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: second biggest company in the world at the moment. So

541
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: you could argue that that the passing of Steve Jobs

542
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: has not really has has not really affected Apple, but

543
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: it's certainly something that has become I think more prevalent

544
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: in recent years. And yeah, Elon Musk is the kind

545
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: of the natural successors. Well, it's down to branding essentially,

546
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it's kind of people. Uh,

547
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: I suppose it's it's one maybe a little bit of

548
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: ego from these CEOs. I'm not sure. I don't doubt

549
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: for a second that you know, their their pr and

550
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: they're they're sort of projections of of how they want

551
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: to be seen in the world. Is is important because

552
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, they've got now political and financial sway over

553
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: a lot of different factors. So it's it's it's it's that.

554
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: But also you know, people need a focal point. People

555
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: like a deity to it, you know, so they that

556
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: I've been told by lots of people, Um that Tesla.

557
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's, it's, it's it's not. The share

558
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: price is not representative of what the company is. But

559
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: people are investing because of Elon. Yeah, and I get that,

560
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's it's. I'm not privy to

561
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: to to how those equations work and all that, but

562
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: I do understand branding and how you know, people will

563
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: choose something because they heard a word, or they've heard

564
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: a name, or they they've been told, oh that is good. Yeah,

565
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: And it's just it's just how human brains work. It's

566
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: it's a very human thing, isn't it. I guess to

567
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: want to to sort of latch onto I guess the

568
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: human in the equation, if you like, when you're talking

569
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: about a company like Tesla, you know, okay, they've got

570
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: this product which is fairly straightforward electric cars. But I guess, yeah,

571
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: it's kind of almost natural to gravitate towards this clearly

572
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: extremely intelligent and also very charismatic person at the top

573
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: of it and mythologize him and sort of place place

574
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: all your faith in him. And I mean it's been

575
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: he's he's in the news so much because I mean

576
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: he's he's a great one for tweeting, isn't it? And

577
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: you know he's he's said some questionable things on Twitter

578
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: in the past, and now he's trying to buy Twitter. Um.

579
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: But it certainly seems and I wonder perhaps whether I mean,

580
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: we talk about Tesla and also Apple having very clear

581
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: you can see you can see what the value proposition

582
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: is there, isn't it electric cars that they're arguably the

583
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: future Apple iPhones and you know, Luptox, very sleep computers.

584
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's clear what they offer. And I guess

585
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: perhaps one of the reasons why this sort of kind

586
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: of godlike founder thing has become such a big deal

587
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: in crypto is because perhaps the perhaps because crypto projects

588
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: are a kind of harder to understand. I mean, that's

589
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: one of the questions that people always ask, isn't It's

590
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: like why is the news? Yeah, why is this thing valuable?

591
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: Why is why are people willing to part with thousands

592
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: of dollars for for this coin? You know, what does

593
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: what does it all represent? What does it mean? And

594
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: I guess perhaps it's perhaps that makes crypto more susceptible

595
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: to kind of putting these people like Satoshi, like Fatallic

596
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: and like do quum on on a pedestal and and

597
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: imagining them to be It's like you can almost you

598
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: can almost kind of see the thought process, can't you.

599
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't really understand what this project does,

600
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: but this guy seems very smart, so here's my money.

601
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: I think also what is interesting with with crypto is

602
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: because it's such a so prevalent on social media and

603
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: online with things like Reddit, and that when you do

604
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: get someone who backs it and believes in it, they

605
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: and if they are very vocal, then it kind of

606
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: forms an echo chamber of like and they they shout

607
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: and scream and under the loudest about these things, championing

608
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: their deity, the leader of the project that they've invested

609
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: a lot into, and that kind of gets you know,

610
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: bounced around the Internet a lot more more so than

611
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: I'd say, you know, a traditional company with stocks and

612
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: yeah this is yeah, this is that. That was that

613
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: was the That was the next sort of thing I

614
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: to kind of talk about, really because it's like these

615
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: this kind of founder myth, these these very charismatic this

616
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: idea of a kind of godlike creator figure or whatever.

617
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: This seems to have kind of fed into this. You know,

618
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: you get very passionate, very engaged, a very vocal and

619
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 1: kind of very militant crypto communities out there. And there

620
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: are sort of a number of a number of crypto

621
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: projects that are kind of almost notorious because their communities

622
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 1: are so vocal and will you know, will defend them

623
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: to the hilt. On we saw it a Bitcoin Miami.

624
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: Do you remember we were grabbing a hotdog and a

625
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: table next to us, and there was one guy who

626
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: was Bitcoin Maxie, Bitcoin Maxie, and was was really just

627
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: going over the top to this man's plaining. Yes, Yeah,

628
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: it was crazy to this girl who was just sat

629
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: there and because she what was she? I think she'd

630
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: had the temerity to to say that she was, you know,

631
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: a fan or an admirer of the theory. Yeah, yeah,

632
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: and I was just biting my tongue and just like

633
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: but she held her own but it was it was,

634
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: it was just it was but that is that was

635
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: the first time I've seen something like that in real life. Yeah,

636
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: and you see that a lot online. Yeah, and it's

637
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: it's obviously much worse online in a way because people

638
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: don't have these kind of these barriers. I mean, this

639
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: guy didn't seem to have much in the way of boundaries,

640
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: didn't certainly. Yeah, And I mean if you if you

641
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: get on the wrong side of of of a crypto community,

642
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: it can be it can be pretty horrible. You know

643
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: that they do that. I think it's brigading, isn't it,

644
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: Where they just just every you know, they spam anyone,

645
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: any critics of a project on Twitter. They can make

646
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: life really difficult and unpleasant. And a lot of people,

647
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: I think have talked about over the last week, you know,

648
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: anyone who's sort of dared, too dared to put out

649
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 1: any criticism of Lunar of Terror, they were often sort

650
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: of ambushed by the lunar community, who a unsurprisingly called

651
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: the lunatics and who in a lot of cases behaved

652
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 1: like that, you know. And I think this this has

653
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: the effect of sort of stifling legitimate criticism because people

654
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: become afraid to speak up. It's like it's it's it's

655
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: very much the same argument with a lot of free speech.

656
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: Do you know, what I mean. So it's kind of

657
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: like it's there there, there's people, you know, who's who's

658
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: saying cool with We're not having real discourse because people

659
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: are being labeled with this, that and the other by

660
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 1: by the extremes on both sides. So it's just people

661
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: are afraid to sort of put their head above the

662
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: parapet let you know what they feel the same things

663
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: that have happened with what happened here with Brexit. A

664
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: lot of people probably were had legitimate concerns about things,

665
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: but we're told that there were racist or you know, xenophobes,

666
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: if if if they didn't wanted to leave, and you know,

667
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: people were, okay, cool, we're not going to have a

668
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: problem here, and everyone was shocked the next day. And

669
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: I guess what it means is that actually the voice

670
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: is that get drowned out of those of the moderates,

671
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: which is actually most people. And it means that a

672
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: few people with very extreme views, you know, in the

673
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: case of Brexit, very extreme leavers and very extreme remainers,

674
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: they're the ones who drive the conversation. And actually most

675
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: people who are in the middle, who are sort of

676
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: you know, probably have in a lot of cases quite

677
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: a nuanced view of it. I just just think, well,

678
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just not going to say anything because you

679
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: can say the same thing about the election of Trump

680
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: as well, you know what I mean, There's a lot

681
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: of people like no one was expecting it. You know,

682
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: people were probably just tired of the same old, same

683
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: old with the Democrats and Hillary. I'm not a politician

684
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: or a political expert, but that was a surprise a

685
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: lot of people, and I think a lot of moderates

686
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: were labels. People who were thinking about voting were labeled this.

687
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: And you know, it's the same same sort of situation. Yeah,

688
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: and and yeah, no one wants to be No one

689
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: wants to be misunderstood. No one wants to be given

690
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: a label that they don't feel applies to them. But

691
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 1: this is something, Yeah, this is something that is unfortunately

692
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: very prevalent in the crypto community. And I think it

693
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: kind of trickles down from these very powerful figures like

694
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: like Do Quan and the fact that Do Kuan was

695
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: so was so willing and able to kind of go

696
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: out there and shoot down criticism in the way that

697
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: we've in the way that we've we've talked about that

698
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: obviously kind of empowered a lot of very extreme lunatics

699
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: to yeah, to defend, you know, to to to kind

700
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: of do the same. So, yeah, a lot of criticism

701
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: has been stifled. We we have these very vocal and

702
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: often very aggressive crypto communities, and there's nothing wrong with

703
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: being outspoken in defense of a project, but too many

704
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: people take it too far. Well, I think also is

705
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: how being outspoken in defense of a project and h

706
00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: and arguing with points as opposed to just you know,

707
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 1: saying I don't I don't speak to the poor. Yeah,

708
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: or this is retarded. Yeah, it's kind of that's that's

709
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: the sort of language that gets retweets but doesn't doesn't

710
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:17,479
Speaker 1: change minds or push the conversation further. Yeah, it's much more. Yeah,

711
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: it's much more attention grabbing than I respectfully disagree. And

712
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 1: here are some reasons why, which is which is the

713
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: reasonable way to do it? But yeah, I mean, this

714
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: is this is something that that I've talked about a

715
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: lot of these idea of crypto communities, and some of

716
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: these people are great, and as I say, there's nothing

717
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: wrong with being you know, with with with being passionate

718
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: about a project, but as you said, I do think

719
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird that, you know, you don't get

720
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: people so so enthused about Microsoft. I mean, I suppose

721
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: you could say that there is there are you kind

722
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: of do with with with Are you an Android or

723
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: an iPhone user? Yeah, but it's not to the extreme

724
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: where someone is you know, is calling you, you know,

725
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: mentally ill. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, oh you use Android

726
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: where you must you must be an idiot. Yeah, it's like, yeah,

727
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: the debate is kind of nuanced, and it's like, yeah,

728
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: you might hold shares in something you obviously want the

729
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: thing to do well, but you know, you can listen

730
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: to people seem to be able to listen to criticism

731
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: rather than go on what you drive a forward. Yeah. Actually,

732
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: to be honest, there is the people who are like that,

733
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: but it's not the extreme, you know. I'm sure, I'm

734
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: sure you can go out there and find some people

735
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: who will who will sticker on the back of their

736
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: car with Calvin and Hobbs paying on a Dodge look

737
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: and stuff. There's always going to be people, yeah, who

738
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: have a sort of weird, weird, sort of fetish random

739
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: guitar and I guess, I mean, I'm sure you could

740
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 1: dredge up plenty of people who will you know, who

741
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: will happily go on on Twitter and you know, a

742
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: view someone who speaks out against Tesla or something like that.

743
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: You know, I imagine, I imagine a few sort of times.

744
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: Maybe we're wrong, Maybe this is just prevalent everywhere, but

745
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: I don't know. I find I think I think it is,

746
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: and this is just you know, anecdotal, but I do

747
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: think it is a bit more um prevalent in cryptile,

748
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely. I just it's harder. It's much harder to

749
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: imagine in the real world. It's like, how dare you

750
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: criticize Procter and Gamble but they are a wonderful company

751
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: that they make up wonderful product that you are retarded

752
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: sir there. Yeah, Yeah, it's um. It's it's an unfortunate

753
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: facet of of crypto and I think it's stifles a

754
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: lot of it in a lot of instances. It's stifles

755
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: nuanced debate, and it's stifles genuine criticism. And I think

756
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: I think this could be part of the reason why

757
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: why this this whole terror crisis was was such a disaster,

758
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: because legitimate criticism just didn't didn't seem to have have

759
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: an airing um in the run up to it. So

760
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: I guess if this whole debarkle teaches us anything, here's

761
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: another hard lesson. It's perhaps that we need to be

762
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: more dispassionate when it comes to our crypto investing. Okay,

763
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: this project seems amazing. I think it could really you know,

764
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: it could really make a difference. It could it could

765
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: live up to everything that it's promising to live up to.

766
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: But I need to be aware of the I need

767
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: to be aware of its shortcomings. I know that it's

768
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: not perfect, because no crypto project is perfect. If I

769
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: found if i'd found a project that I think I

770
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: thought was perfect, you know, i'd champion it. Yeah. And

771
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: but having said that, you know, I still wouldn't have

772
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: put all my money on that one particular project, because

773
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, you just don't know. But I think that's

774
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: an important lesson is don't become try not to become

775
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: emotionally attached because it's investing. There are things, there are

776
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: things out there in your life that are worth far

777
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: more emotional of your passion, of your emotional capital than

778
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: watch crypto project. Yeah, you know, those sorts of passions

779
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: should be for your for your friends and your family,

780
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 1: the really important things in life. Take take take emotion

781
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: out of the question, out of the equation when it

782
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: comes to investing and crypto investing. I've got I've had

783
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: something similar that's happened to me as I've grown older

784
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: with with football clubs. Yeah, yeah, you were talking about

785
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: this the other week, weren't you? Like I would have

786
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: been like my team lost this weekend in the final

787
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: if they cut final, and I was a little bit

788
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: upset about it. But it was a lovely day. And

789
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: I've I've kind of just detached myself from from how

790
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: that can affect my mood because it really doesn't affect

791
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: anything apart from you know, a couple of mates and

792
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: me some some some sort of gyb tweets or WhatsApp messages. Yeah. Um,

793
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 1: so like, look, it's it's it's just enjoy it. Enjoy

794
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: the game. If you win, great, if you if you lose,

795
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: it's it's not the end of the world. I've still

796
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: got my health, my family, and my friends, the really

797
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: important things. Yeah, yeah, that's lovely. On note, should we

798
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: take a break and let's have a break, all right,

799
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: and we're back for Part three. Now, this this section,

800
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: I'm just going to call what now because we've talked

801
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: about what we've what I hope we've all learned from this,

802
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: myself included. We've talked about, you know, what happened, But

803
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: what does the future hold for for terror and also

804
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: for crypto? So the question that I've been asked probably

805
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: the most over the past week is can terror? What is?

806
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 1: What actually is terror? Can terror? Can? Can terror be resurrected?

807
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: Can this can? Can well? Can everything be all right again?

808
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: Will terror arise from the dead? And can people get

809
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: their money back? And the answer to both questions, in short,

810
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: is unlikely. Um Now as we speak. Just earlier today,

811
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: do Quan himself was back on Twitter in you know,

812
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: a much more sort of solitude mood. Yeah, he is

813
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: listening to the poor. Now he's having to with a

814
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: plan to try and resurrect terror. And I'm gonna I'm

815
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: going to quote his I'm going to quote some of

816
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: the stuff that you put out there in just a

817
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: moment um. But I mean my take on it is

818
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: that terror the brand is tarnished. Trust crucially, you know

819
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: this word that it is so important in crypto, Trust

820
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: is all but gone, and it's also likely that one

821
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: of terror's greatest assets, which was its developers, it's deav community.

822
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: I think they are going to have sort of moved

823
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: on as well, quite likely poached by other crypto projects, because,

824
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: as I think I've said before, this is something I'm

825
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: talked about a lot at the conference a couple of

826
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: weeks ago. Um one of the biggest problems facing crypto,

827
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 1: or certainly be for all this happened, was a lack

828
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: of developers. There simply aren't an off people who can

829
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: build all these amazing projects. And the fact that one

830
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: big project has now gone to the wall means those

831
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: developers are going to just be picked up by Yeah,

832
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: I would imagine that most of them have been most,

833
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: if not all of them have at least been offered

834
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: other jobs, and it would be really interesting to know

835
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: if there are others sort of still going, well, let's

836
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: let's stick with us and see what we can salvage,

837
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: because I mean, they've all got to put food on

838
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: the table, and I imagine they will all most of

839
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 1: them will have lost a lot of money themselves. Anyhow,

840
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: here's what Don said. So this was on This was

841
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: on the sixteenth of May so Monday evening, he posted

842
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: a tweet thread outlining a plan to try and resurrect

843
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: Terror and the sort of key takeouts that I took

844
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: from it, where so I'm going to quote here it

845
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: would be devastating for broader crypto adoption and advancement if

846
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: we remain in entropy amidst opposing views, and as such,

847
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: I proposed the following to chart the path forward for

848
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: our ecosystem. Very different language to some of his previous tweets. Yeah, yeah,

849
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: he's this is this is a chastened man quote. The

850
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: Terror chain as it currently exists should be forked into

851
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: a new chain without algorithmic stable coins, called Terror in

852
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: brackets Token Lunar, and the old chain will be called

853
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: Terror Classic Token Lunar Classic l u n C. Both

854
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: chains will coexist. New Lunar will be air dropped to

855
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: Lunar Classic stakers holders, residual us T holders, and essential

856
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: app developers, And it kind of goes on and gets

857
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: a bit more technical from that point on. Basically, what

858
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: he's saying is that Terror. You know, he wants to

859
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: resurrect Terror, but without U s T, without this decentralized

860
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: table coin which was basically what it was all about.

861
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 1: Um and it's kind of he said in the party,

862
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: he said sort of recently, Terror is more the U

863
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: s T. Now it's kind of anyone's guess as to

864
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: what Terror would look like without us T. You know,

865
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: if they if they do resurrect the project, there's a

866
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: lot of speculation that they could look to resurrect it

867
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: as another Layer one, you know, similar to the likes

868
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: of Ethereum or car Dana, any of these other kind

869
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: of smart contract blockchains that you can build decentralized applications

870
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: or DAPs on top of now Terror's tech, which I

871
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: won't go into here. Terror did have some some strong

872
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: tech under the hood. It was technically a very good project,

873
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 1: which was one of the things that Iron many others

874
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: liked about it. And there could be perhaps an argument

875
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: for for making use of that tech, making use of

876
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: Terror's blockchain, and and creating this this new Layer one. However,

877
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess my first question is do do

878
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: we really need another Layer one at the moment? There

879
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: are so many Layer one projects out there, and this

880
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: as we go into a bear market essentially, you know,

881
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: we are we are now Crypto is now in a

882
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: bear market along with pretty much everything else. Is launching

883
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: another layer one now going to be a valuable use

884
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 1: of anyone's time. I'm not I'm not entirely sure. And yeah,

885
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: do they have is the terror community still engaged enough?

886
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: Have they got enough morale to to get behind this project?

887
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: And do they still have enough developers to build it? Have?

888
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: Are there still enough developers who are willing to to

889
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: kind of forge ahead with this? This is all going

890
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 1: to be voted on by the terror community or what's

891
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 1: left of it, on the twenty seven of May, so

892
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: in about as we record this, about ten days time. Um,

893
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: now I would say this this is crypto, so you

894
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: can't rule anything out, but it does at this point

895
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: seemed to me like a bit of a long shot.

896
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, you've got to wonder if there are going

897
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: to be enough for people willing to support it. The

898
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: lunatic community is or was, one of Terror's greatest assets

899
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: of you like, so it's perhaps possible that there's enough

900
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: goodwill existing to resurrect it. But as I said, I mean,

901
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 1: I don't see how a project with Dokan at the

902
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: helm can can attract anyone in their right mind. His

903
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: brand is is irrevocably tarnished. I think the terror brand

904
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,439
Speaker 1: is irrevocably tarnished. You know, despite how much good tech

905
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: they may have. Um, people are not going to forget

906
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: this in a hurry. And I mean, let's face it,

907
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: not everyone is angry at Dokan. There have been a

908
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: lot of people out there on Twitter and elsewhere who

909
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: have who are supporting humans and some using this really

910
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: weird language like some Doan is our savior. He will

911
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: lead us out of this all this sort of nonsense.

912
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: And I mean that again, that for me is a

913
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 1: bad sign, because yeah, and I guess what it boils

914
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: down to is that there are a lot of people

915
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: out there who, as we said earlier, have lost a

916
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: lot of money. And I think this will be that

917
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 1: will be the only kind of or the main driving

918
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: factor behind any attempt to resurrect terror is people wanting

919
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 1: to get their money back and they just I'm afraid

920
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: they just can't. So yeah, it's it's a pretty bleak situation.

921
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: And I mean it's going to be interesting to see

922
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: how this pans out over the cooming sort of days,

923
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: weeks and months, and I yeah, I guess there there

924
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,439
Speaker 1: there may well be a lot of people motivated enough

925
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: to try and want to get their money back. But

926
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: will they have enough? Will will there be a tipping point? Yeah?

927
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: For me, it's certainly terror, and it's well in its

928
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: current form is dead And I'm not sure if you

929
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: want to if it's worth flogging flogging that dead horse. Um. Now,

930
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: there is the chance as well that do Quon, who

931
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: is undoubtedly a very smart guy, There's no question of that,

932
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: perhaps he's been sufficiently humbled by this whole experience and

933
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: the lessons that he's learned may serve him and terror

934
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: two point Oh well, I mean he has said this

935
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: is one of his this is one of his tweets

936
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: that he put out in you know, as this was

937
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: going down. Quote. I've spent the last few days on

938
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: the phone calling terror community members, builders, community members, employees,

939
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: friends and family that have been devastated by us t

940
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: D pegging. I am heartbroken about the pain my invention

941
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: has brought on you all. I mean, that is the

942
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: sound of that is the sound of contrition right there.

943
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: And you could argue that there is perhaps no substitute

944
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: for for hard and bitter experience. So have we seen

945
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: has the has the crypto community seen the last of

946
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 1: do Quon. I don't know, And perhaps he still has

947
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: something to offer because he will have learned this lesson,

948
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: perhaps harder than anyone, or you would at least hope.

949
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, that the future for terror is is not

950
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 1: bright at the moment the way I see it um now.

951
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: The Lunar Foundation GUARD which I mentioned earlier, the nonprofit

952
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: which coordinates terrorist development, it has talked about trying to

953
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 1: compensate us T holders, but as I said earlier as well,

954
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't have much in the way of reserves with

955
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: which to do this. I mean, we're talking about billions

956
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: of dollars and I think I think that the lf

957
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: g S reserve is sort of currently around eighty million

958
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: or something, you know it. The money just isn't there.

959
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,399
Speaker 1: So I can't see how that is going to how

960
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: that is going to happen. The uncomfortable truth is billions

961
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: of dollars have gone down the toilet and there's nothing

962
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: much that anyone can do about it. And sadly, I

963
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: think this whole episode will have driven some people away

964
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: from crypto forever. And this is this is unfortunately what

965
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: happens in you know, when these disasters happen. Uh though,

966
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: people who lose everything, or people who are new to

967
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: the space and kind of watch this unfold, or people

968
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: who were you know, perhaps been in crypto for a

969
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: time but we're kind of skeptical about it. I'm afraid

970
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: a lot of those people are going to have walked

971
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: away and they won't they won't come back, which is

972
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: which is bad for crypto in the long run. However,

973
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: I do feel that in the long term, this could

974
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: turn out to be a good, if very hard lesson

975
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: for everyone in the crypto community to have learned some

976
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: of these lessons, Some of these things that we talked

977
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: about right at the top of the episode. You know,

978
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: these hard lessons don't inverse more than you can afford

979
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: to lose, diversify. I mean, this was stuff that we

980
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: that we've all been banging on about, but it's clear

981
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: that those lessons had been kind of forgotten. So I

982
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: think the crypto community is is strong enough to learn

983
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: from this, and that is really the only the only

984
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: way we're going to get anything out of the whole

985
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: the whole debacle. And I mean a lot of the

986
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 1: talk recently has been comparing this to things like Mount gos,

987
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 1: which we talked about in one of the episodes of Bitcoin,

988
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: didn't we And also bit Connect, which was this infamous

989
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,320
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned it before, this infamous Ponzi scheme

990
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,479
Speaker 1: that promised people outrageous returns and a lot of people

991
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: sunk a lot of money into that and it just

992
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: collapsed and again a lot of people lost money. That

993
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:20,919
Speaker 1: was a few years ago. Both were a few years

994
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: ago now, and I mean this, this is on this,

995
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: this is on a similar scale in terms of how

996
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 1: bad it is for cryptom It's very different, I think

997
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: because Mount Gox was Mount Cox was kind of rotten

998
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: to the core. It was a legitimate concern, but very

999
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: very badly run. Bit Connect was just an out and

1000
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: out scam, and and and terror is is something else again.

1001
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: It's you know, like I said, it was a seemingly

1002
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: solid project but which unfortunately had some fatal flaws, which

1003
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: and it was caught out by by by a market downturn,

1004
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: by by the difficult world, the difficult economic additions that

1005
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: we are that we're living in living through at the moment.

1006
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, this there are hard lessons to be learned here,

1007
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: and I think we I think we will learn them

1008
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: now that Just before I wrap up, I just want

1009
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: to talk about the other thing that perhaps one of

1010
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: the other big things that's going to come out of

1011
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: this is regulations. How much, Yeah, how extreme? It's almost

1012
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: certain useful. Yeah, that that that regulators in the US

1013
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: and elsewhere are going to go are going to be

1014
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: looking much more closely at stable coins now. US Treasury

1015
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: Secretary Janet Yellen, she she sort of made point made

1016
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: remarks about about U S. T and stable coins as

1017
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 1: this whole thing was going down just a few days ago,

1018
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: so she's she's well aware of it. Now. If regulations

1019
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: are sensible and well thought out, then there's a very

1020
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: good chance that they could be long term beneficial for

1021
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: the crypto industry. And I know that a lot of

1022
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: instant tutional capital, a lot of big players are waiting. Yeah,

1023
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: they want to invest in crypto, but they can't because

1024
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: they don't feel that it's regulated enough. And if we

1025
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: have more weeks like we've just had, that's you know,

1026
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: their their minds aren't going to change. So yeah, I

1027
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: think if regulations are sensible, then then this could be

1028
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: a long term benefit. And remember that stable coins are

1029
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: a vital part of crypto. We need them to We

1030
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: need them to survive. We can't afford to have this

1031
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: happen again. And I've talked about the questions over stable

1032
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: coins before. I mean another stable coin that got knocked

1033
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: briefly off its peg was the biggest of all, which

1034
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: is USDT. Now this it was knocked down to nine

1035
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: cents briefly last week, but it managed to regain its peg.

1036
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: But you know that was worrying as well. If if

1037
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: U s DT was to go down, then we really

1038
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: then this crisis would look kind of small by comparison.

1039
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: And Tether, the company behind us d T, It's been

1040
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,479
Speaker 1: asked countless times what assets it has backing this stable coins.

1041
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: It's not an algorithmic stable coin like us T was.

1042
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: It didn't rely on on on this minting and burning mechanism.

1043
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: U s d T and U s d C, which

1044
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: are the two biggest stable coins out there by market cap,

1045
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: they are centralized stable coins. They are backed supposedly by

1046
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: actual assets, and I mean ideally those assets would be

1047
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: cash in a bank account. Now USDC is backed by

1048
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: cash to a large extent, but it's also backed by

1049
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: by by debt, by US government debt Tether is is backed,

1050
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: there's a tiny amount of cash backing it relative to

1051
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: its overall market cap, and then a lot of what's

1052
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: called commercial paper, which is basically, you know, the debt

1053
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: of various companies, and Tether has not been not been

1054
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: very clear in the past about the actual assets back

1055
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: in USDT. There's a lot of concern around that, and

1056
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it is time we need clarity

1057
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: around these around these sorts of things. We can't have

1058
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: stable coins that are backed by unknown assets. So although

1059
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: regulation could be painful for the crypto industry in the

1060
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: short term, I think A it's inevitable, and B I

1061
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: think we we need it so long as it's sensible

1062
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: and thought through. So brace yourself for for more on

1063
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: that front. And yeah, I'll be We'll be covering that

1064
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 1: Coin Bureau as that goes along, because that's that's going

1065
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: to be really important over the next few years. Really,

1066
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: it's going to be vital to how the crypto industry

1067
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: grows and and evolves. So let's just let's just wrap

1068
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: this up now. I want to close by saying that

1069
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people will have seen lots of stuff

1070
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: in the in the media about all this recently some

1071
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 1: rehashed articles. Yeah, there's these sorts of articles that this

1072
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: is that, you know, this latest crisis is the end

1073
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: for crypto. You know, cryptos reached the end of the road.

1074
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: They always come out at times of crisis like this.

1075
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: We saw them with We saw them with Mountgox, we

1076
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: saw them with bit connect, we saw them when Crypto crashed. In.

1077
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: Lots of writers, some of whom I respect, an awful lot,

1078
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: we're kind of reading crypto its last rites and it's

1079
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: still here. And I have absolutely no doubt that crypto

1080
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: will survive this and come back stronger. But yeah, there

1081
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: are there is going to be a lot of There

1082
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: are going to be a lot of people willing to

1083
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: put themselves out there and say that this is the end,

1084
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: and this always happens. It kind of ignores the fact

1085
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: that other asset markets are taking too. And this goes

1086
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: back to what I've been saying again and again and again.

1087
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: This is this whole crash in crypto. This whole situation

1088
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: has come about because of wider economic concerns. So I

1089
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: hope everyone can keep that in mind thinking about the

1090
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: future of crypto. You know, crypto is part is now

1091
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: a piece of a much broader economic picture, and I

1092
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: think over the coming years, it's going to become a

1093
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: much larger piece of that picture. And yeah, we we

1094
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 1: need to keep we need to keep perspective. And I'm

1095
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: just going to finish by saying, as we touched on

1096
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: earlier in the episode, if you have lost money in this,

1097
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: if you have been really badly affected by this, then

1098
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: please don't suffer in silence. I'm gonna leave some links

1099
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: in the show notes to a couple of resources that

1100
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: you can that you can get in touch with um.

1101
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, I know this has been really difficult for

1102
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people, but please, yeah, focus on, focus

1103
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: on what's really important in life. Yeah, anything to add Mikey,

1104
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: let's go a coffee. Let's get a coffee on you.

1105
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. We will be back next week.

1106
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: I've no idea what we'll be back with this. Hopefully

1107
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: something not so Diane, but maybe not. We'll see, we'll see.

1108
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: Stay safe everyone, and we'll be back with you very soon. By.

1109
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I

1110
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1111
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: The coin Bureau podcast is a production of I heart radio,