WEBVTT - Halo Premiere + Comics Legend Grant Morrison 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:04.400 Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for the first episode of 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.760 the new Halo series on Paramount Plus. Elden Ring kind 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:10.640 of not really Shadow of the Colossus, which is a 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:12.720 game that is almost twenty years old now but is 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.280 well worth your time if you can play it Injustice 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.880 and possibly more video games. You have been warned. 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:35.320 Hello. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:37.680 My name is Jasoncepcio and welcome to x ray Vision, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:46.720 The Crooked Podcast, where we dot d bien to your 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:51.280 favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. On today's action 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.800 packed episode in the Airlock, we will recap the first 0:00:54.840 --> 0:01:00.120 episode of Paramount Plus's adaptation of the Halo video game 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.000 series Halo, and discuss which video games we're currently playing. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.720 I'm playing only one and it's taken over my life 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.920 and I need help help me. Continuing our coverage of 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.640 the Batman, we're joined in the Hive Mind by the 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.319 legendary comics writer Grant Morrison discuss their iconic career in 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.440 nerd Out, a audience member tells us about Final Fantasy 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.600 for Free Enterprise, and in the endgame, we rank our 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:28.200 top three video game adaptations to do all of that. 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:37.400 Joining us today is writer Comics Encyclopedia, brilliant creator, Rosie Night, Rosie, 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:38.360 how are you? 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:39.360 I'm good? 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:39.920 How are you? 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.400 I'm doing well? What's what's going on? What's happening? What's 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.319 happening with you? What's happening with the Well, let's talk 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.360 about it. We've been teasing it. Oh, let's talk about 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.800 it here. We've been teasing it. But let's talk about 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.160 your comics project, which you can now safely announce. I 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.360 can now love it if you'd denounce it. 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.600 Okay, So if you've read any of my stuff we've 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.160 had me on the show, you'll know that I love Godzilla. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.720 Godzilla's weell my absolute favorite things. And me and this 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.960 absolutely brilliant artist called Oliver Ono, who you might actually 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.680 already follow on Instagram because he's very popular, we are 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.920 doing a Godzilla comic and it is called Godzilla Rivals 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.160 two Versus Bachra, which is a very long name, but 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.800 it's a really cool mash up comic. We're allowed to 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.680 announce it now. They're finishing up final work on the 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.720 cover and it is a forty page one shot and 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:32.040 it is. 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:32.799 Really really cool. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.760 It's set in the British seaside. Because I'm from London, 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.240 and that was somewhere that Oliver actually spent a lot 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.600 of time as a kid too, So we're just really 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:44.320 excited about it. It's basically like Studio Ghibli meets Godzilla 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.240 with a lot of Kaiju fighting action. 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.000 So yeah, and not available when. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:53.639 Okay, So it looks like if you read comics or 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:55.359 you have started a pull list because of us, you 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.400 will know that comics are listed many months before they 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.399 come out, so it should be around July, the beginning 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.520 ish of July, we hope. And as soon as it 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.120 is really available and we have a link where you 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:09.880 can order it and stuff, I'll make sure that we 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:11.560 put it in the show notes and people can have 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.920 a look, and hopefully we'll talk about it more because 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:18.240 all of us are is like, so incredible and definitely 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.600 just go follow him on Instagram Oliver oh No, And 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.280 it's just so exciting and I'm really happy that this 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.680 is the first place I've gotten to talk about it, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:26.680 So thank you for asking. 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.239 Well, that is fantastic, and we're gonna have to have 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.000 y'all on to discuss your work. Now, let us step 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:51.680 into and out of the air lock to discuss Halo 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:58.600 oh Bomb bumba bumba Halo. Okay, folks, Paramount Plus's adaptation 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.440 of Halo. It's been long for man. I remember Rosie 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:07.560 back in like Halo three days. Halo three had an 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:12.440 absolutely incredible promotional campaign that was like these really grounded 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.960 action vignettes of Master Chief in his apocalyptic war against 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.920 the Covenant alien races and it was really really cool. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.880 And it was around that time that people were like, Oh, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.159 Halo movie, It's gonna happen. Who will it be? Will 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:32.599 it be Spielberg? Will it be Neil Blong, Camp of 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.279 District nine? Who will be? And this has been We've 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.000 been waiting for it, waiting for it, waiting for it. 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.000 I had forgotten about it. I stopped playing Halo. I 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.279 started playing Halo again. I stopped again, and then I 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.359 started again. And now here we are. The year is 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:49.320 twenty twenty two, and the Halo television series has now 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.880 aired on Paramount Plus. We'll have it aired by the 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.920 time you were listening to this, and we are going 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.760 to recap now. Episode one of the Halo series, title Contact, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.720 written by Stephen Kine and Kyle Killen. The year is 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.760 twenty five fifty two and first of all, congrats to 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.039 the human race for making it that far. I didn't 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.640 think it wasn't I didn't think you were going to 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.440 get there. To be honest with you, sitting here in 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.200 twenty twenty two, I'm not one hundred percent convinced that 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.760 you're going to get there. But in this fictional world, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.760 you got there, and I'm kind of proud of you, 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.920 even though you still be colonizing. But that's okay, okay. 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.400 Human nature. And that's why they call it science fiction. Baby, 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:32.320 it's fictional. 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.640 The year is twenty five to fifty two. We are 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.400 on the planet Magical, which is part of Unified Earth 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:45.440 Government territory. It is a colony. Human colonists went out 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.680 into various far flung planets of the galaxy where they 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.680 would then mine for resources or what have you, and 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.080 they would send that back to the central Earth government. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.680 And over time the colonists have been like, hey, we're 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.800 being exploited by you, so Earth Government, and that is 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.080 the state of affairs today. Magical is a planet rich 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:09.440 and exploitable resources, populated by a diverse body of very 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.760 restive human colonists. The ueg's relationship with its outer colonies 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:19.479 is very bad for anyone who read the first Halo 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.560 novelizations by Eric Nyland, you'll understand where we're coming from 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.520 with that. When the colonies act up, when they insurrect, 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.839 when they rebel against the UEG, the UEG sends in 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:37.880 the space Marines, the UNSC United Nations Security something something 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:43.000 I forgot what it was. Marines end the newly kind 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.520 of newly created elite force of specially trained and equipped 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.840 warriors known as the Spartans. They are widely feared throughout 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:55.960 the colonies, and they are a subject of much propaganda 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.560 by the UEG. So Kwan Hall is a colonist. She 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:04.560 and her friends are exploring the landscape of Madrigal, where 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:10.040 the various plants are rich with heavy hydrogen, which is 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.600 very useful apparently as an energy source and also for drugs. 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.680 Quan sees something strange in the woods. She follows it. 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.040 She sees an alien ship near a cave where there's 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.960 clearly some sort of mining activity taking place. Quan is like, okay, like, 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.760 let's return to the outpost. We have to tell everybody 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.920 what's happening, and her friends are kind of like, oh no, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.960 let's not do that, which is crazy, like why would 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.080 that is there's an alien ship here, I think we 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.440 need to go back. And then in that moment they 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.480 are attacked by the Covenant, who are We're going to 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.120 find this out of the course of the series, So 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.880 minor spoiler, but this is like available information if you've 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.080 ever played a Halo game, which is probably likely. The 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.280 Covenant is an alliance of alien races who have bound 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:59.400 together for religious reasons, and they are extremely adept and militaristic, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.600 and they have plasma weaponry and you don't want to 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.760 fuck with them. Quan sends up a flare warns the outposts. 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.800 The colonists, including Quan's father, swinging into action. They arm 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:12.520 themselves with like this was crazy, with like assault weapons 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.559 like from the twenty first slash twenty seconds, like three 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.160 hundred year old guns, which I get it. If you're 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:24.640 the UEG, you probably don't want your colonists having like 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:25.840 really good weapons. 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:31.640 But the gunned in they unbelievable fashion, unbelievable. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:36.520 They just have like antiques out here, So all the 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.720 guns and all that stuff, it doesn't it doesn't matter 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.080 because the elites are like seven feet tall, incredibly strong. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.120 They have energy shields that just turn back the bullets 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.040 with ease, and they are armed with plasma weaponry that 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:54.600 just melt people. They easily brush the colonials aside, and 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.920 just as the colonials are being completely wiped out, the 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:04.520 unsse and four Spartans Sorein riz Kai and the Master 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:10.800 Chief John one one seven arrive and they are bad ass. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.120 So they managed to check the attack. Uh, and it's 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.480 it's another victory for the Spartans, minus the fact that 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.600 every single colodial has been massacred, except. 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:23.640 So it's kind of. 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.480 Like it's a it's a you win some, you'll lose some, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:32.000 but listen, the colony has been defended. The Spartans set 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.360 off to find out where the landing site is. They 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.680 discover the same cave that Kwan had found, and inside 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.559 that cave there is some sort of alien artifact that 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.000 that the covenant we're trying to extract. Chief touches it. 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.320 The device activates with this green light of sending out 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:53.520 these interesting lines and patterns, and suddenly inside Chief's mind 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.480 something unlocks and these long buried memories start emerging, and 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:02.360 he sees like snippets of like some other plant, a dog, 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.079 like some kind of crashed ship and then Chief snaps 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.240 out of it. A cloaked Elite sprints out of the cave, 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.560 knocking down Kwan, who has already been through so much today, 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.960 and now Quan's knocked unconscious buying fleeing Elite, the elite escapes. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.079 Chief is like, hey, take this alien drop ship back 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.480 to Fleet Command so they can look into it. I 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:28.760 am going to go after the Elite to see where 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.640 he went, and that's what I'm going to do. I'm 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.319 going to get that artifact back. And that's what we're doing. 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.760 And the Spartans are like, are you sure, that's kind 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.920 of like not procedure. He's like, don't worry about it. 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.880 I'm the Master Chief. I worry you'd do this. On Reach, 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:50.120 which is an important United Government world ten and a 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.200 half light years from Earth, it's the home of UNSC 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.200 Fleet Command, we meet doctor Catherine Halsey, who is a 0:10:56.200 --> 0:11:00.680 brilliant super genius behind the Spartan project and the secret 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.199 programs of which we will soon learn about. And if 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.400 you have read the Halo novelizations are played a Halo game, 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.160 you probably can figure out where this is going. She 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.079 sees something in the way that the artifact reacts to 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.840 the Master Chief. She's watching like the security footage of 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:23.120 this that interests her. Admiral Paragowski arrives at Halsey's lab 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.439 and she is like the big muckety muck at Fleet 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.760 Command and she arrives and she's like, listen, Security council 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.760 might just cut your funding because of this magical debacle, 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.920 Like it doesn't look great. Yes, the Spartans defeated the Covenant, 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.360 but like all the colonials did. And Halsey's like, forget 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.880 about the colonials. We don't care. We literally don't want 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.480 to talk about them on anymore. Let's talk about this 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.160 artifact that that we found on Madrigal. And we learn 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.880 through this conversation that the ug has been fighting a 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:57.959 covenant for a long time, but apparently most colonials don't 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.720 really they think the Covenant is like a myth. And also, 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.880 after all these years, the UEG has no idea what 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:06.960 the Covenant want. They have no idea what they want, 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.439 so maybe this artifact will tell them what they want. 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.319 Is the first time they've got any kind of indication 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.360 that the Covenant wants something, so they know that they 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.520 have to get this artifact. Halsey tells Paragowsky that listened, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.960 the artifact needs to come to my lab. It should 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.160 not go to the lab of doctor Miranda Keys, a 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.000 rising figure in the unsc and spoiler alert kind of 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:28.760 well not really they say it in the episode, so 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.920 I'll just tell you doctor Halsey's daughter. On her way out, 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.920 Paragowsky tells Halsey to get rid of that, and that 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.160 turns out to be some kind of clone, some kind 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.920 of clone, probably for the Kortana project, but perhaps like 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.040 trying to restart the Spartan project. What do you think 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:45.560 that could be? 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.600 Yeah, I definitely think And the thing is, it looks 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.600 like it could be a clone of doctor Halsey. So 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.320 there's definitely younger Halsey, younger Holesey. So there's come some 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.319 kind of strange thing here. It could be something more 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.880 intimate about trying to cure a sickness that's often like 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.560 a sci fi thing, you need to replace yourself so 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.560 your work can go on, or I think most likely 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.520 because of the show and how much they're gonna it 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.320 seems like they're leaning into the like conflicted nature of 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.640 master Chief and the kind of realities of the Spartan program. 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.880 I think it's like gonna be a spin off or 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.120 a continuation of the Spartan program. 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.840 We then go shockingly, I must say to high Charity. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.880 Another location from the video games, somewhere in uncharted space. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:31.200 This is the Covenant High Command megabase. The size of 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.640 a planet looks like a gigantic jellyfish. A Covenant profit 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:41.040 who is profits are part of the Alien Alliance and 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:45.240 they are basically the leadership class in the Covenant is 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.920 discussing with a human woman named Makey. They don't actually 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.320 say her name in this, but from IMDb this is cheating, 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.920 but m A k ee, So I'm gonna say Makey. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:56.280 I think that's right. 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.440 This this scene, I just need to say this. We'll 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.600 talk more about the general show. And like the opening 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.400 really sets this kind of unexpected tone, but it fits 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.160 into what kind of what I expected from a Halo show. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.440 Lots of action, like really great creature work. But this 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:16.880 scene is so prequel Star Wars. It's so Amadala and 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:23.200 it's so deep, hard bureaucratic sci fi, and I wasn't 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:24.520 really expecting to get that. 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.040 This was the scene that surprised me as well. Yeah, 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.360 so it apparently Machi. You again, they haven't said her 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.560 name yet, so I hope that's right. Is a human 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.000 that apparently was kidnapped by the Covenant and raised in 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.720 their ways. So Machi apparently predicted where the artifact would be, 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.040 and she was right about that, but not that the 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.480 Spartans would arrive and foil the plans to snatch it. 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:54.320 So the profit is being very very like snackety with 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.880 Machi and in fact downright derisive towards her. More interestingly, 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:04.640 we know that the Covenant has a nickname for master Chief. 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.080 They call him a demon. Maki would like to speak 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.240 to the cloaked Covenant warrior who escaped the cave and 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.840 witnessed the entire incident and saw that the artifact reacted 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.720 to master Chief with it, which the Covenant find very interesting. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:18.520 Uh. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.800 The prophet then mock's MACKI for reading apparently like human 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.320 literature in an attempt to know the mind of humanity 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.520 on master Chiefs. Condor Kwan wakes up on route to 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.400 reach she finds the Master Chief staring at the artifact. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.000 He's just obsessed with this fucking thing. 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.720 Yeah, he wants to know about that flashback like he 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.400 was that conflict, like, wasn't he just always master chief? 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:42.440 Who is this dog? 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:42.760 Like? 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:44.120 What where did. 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:45.520 Where did he come from? 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:45.880 You know? 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.920 And that's that's obviously going to be the major seed. 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.520 And I kind of think that the nod about MACKI 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.160 reading like human literature hints that there's going to be 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.480 some kind of conflict there that's relative of this idea 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.160 of the Covenant and the humans and some kind of. 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:05.200 Romance. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.720 How smell a romance across these two people who might 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.160 know where they come from have been adopted in strange classes. 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:17.640 I know, I love it. Miranda Keys holograms into talk 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.760 to Kwan and Ken. She's like, hey, listen, I'm really 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.920 really sorry that your dad and everyone you ever knew 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.360 has been massacred by the Covenant. 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:26.520 In front of your eyes brutally. 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:31.160 That was really tough. But but but but if you 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.440 were to like get on the twenty sixth century TikTok 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.120 and be like, hey, hey, y'all, you know what was 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.200 really cool the Spartans. They came and defended us, and yes, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.600 I'm the only survivor, but they did a great job 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.640 and they are here to protect us. If you would 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.640 go on, you know, do a media tour and just 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:55.480 help us sell how what a great job the Spartans 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.640 are doing for the colonials. That would really be a help. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.960 And Kwan's like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.600 not gonna sell out like that. She says that if 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.760 she were to record such a video, she would just say, hey, 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.840 you know what, the Spartans slaughtered everybody. What about that? 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.199 That's what they did. And if you don't want me 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.280 to do that, here are my demands free magic goal 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.639 from UEG control and Miranda Keys is like, well that 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.960 went badly and hangs up. We go back to Reach 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.280 where Halsey is a studying Master Chiefs vitals. Everything here's 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:31.760 you know, how your iPhone or your device gives you 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.520 now hopefully gives you the option to like opt out 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.920 of all your information being like sold to various places 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.840 them onlier Armor does not have that. You can't turn 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.119 of everything. Everything gets sent to unsc fleet Command and 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.160 Halsey is studying Master Chiefs vitals and she notices that whoa, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.679 this artifact really did something to the Chief, like his 0:17:51.880 --> 0:18:00.280 biology is different somehow, And she notices that curiously Master 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.680 she is not mentioned that he's feeling weird or anything. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.680 So that's a note of concern. She speaks with him, 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.639 asks him about it. He says, listen, I touched the 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.320 object and I saw stuff I saw visions of, like 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.120 maybe my childhood. I saw a dog. And it's clear 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.359 that Master Chief is very troubled by this. On Reach, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:25.040 doctor Keys talks with her dad, Captain Jacob Keys. I'm 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:30.280 just gonna call Captain Jacob about Miranda's unsuccessful attempt at diplomacy, 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:31.240 at diplomacy with. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:36.760 Qualms like it was not good, badly timed. It was like, hey, sorry, 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.600 your friends died, but could you just like do some 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.280 cool propaganda for us, even though we've been messing up 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:42.920 your lives. 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.639 Just like go straight to camera, Just like if you 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:49.679 could do just a video, something vertical and just go 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:50.080 straight to. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.240 Camera content about this massacre. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.320 Meanwhile, while her dad is talking to her about this, 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.480 they're like dissecting covenant bodies around her, which is like 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.119 not the setting to have this converse station anyway. Keys 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.240 is frustrated at Halsey is stymying her career at every term, 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.440 and here we learn that, to make things even weirder, 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.119 that's her mom. So okay, that's an issues shocking. And 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:15.400 then at the end of this conversation, Captain Jacob her 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.200 dad again just very casually drops the news that hey, 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:20.960 we're gonna disappear Kwan. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:21.639 What. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.240 Yeah, We're gonna liquidate her. What Yeah, We're gonna assassinate her. 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.240 What Yeah, We're gonna exit. We're gonna fucking kill her 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.840 because the story, whatever story she has, we don't want 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.320 that to get out. It's just much easier if all 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:38.200 the colonists for Magical Die and Doctor Keys is absolutely 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.920 fucking shocked at this. It's like, honey, how long you've 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:42.920 been working at the UNSC is what we do? 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.119 You know what? It's Uh, it's the moment when you 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.160 realize that they're not going to shy away from the reality, 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.800 which is they are the bad guys like they which 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:51.240 I love. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.320 I that's the thing. I the books go there as well, 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.880 because the colonials are restive as well, they have certain demands. 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.800 The UNSC acts completely ruthlessly towards them. The Spartan program 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:08.080 was in fact created and deployed against human beings if 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:13.840 more often they're not. And I'm glad that they went there. Yeah, 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:15.119 it's cool that they went there with. 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.000 I think it's really interesting and we'll get to kind 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:20.400 of the tone and the vibe. But like, I think 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.240 it's really interesting to take what to a lot of 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.320 people who haven't necessarily deeply played the games, or who 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:29.040 haven't read the books, which I'm so gonna have to 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.040 do now, like I'm gonna need it. I think I 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:33.000 read the first one, but I think I need to 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:34.680 go back and read them because I feel like this 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.640 must be taking so much inspiration because there's so much 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.160 depth to this first episode. But I think it's really 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.000 cool that they essentially took something that a lot of 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.080 people just know as kind of like a shoot them up, 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.720 kind of like fast Pass sure, and I like, here's 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:52.480 like a Star Trek level in depth exploration of this 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.320 world that you've never seen. And let's talk about what 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.840 it means to be colonists, and let's talk about what 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.160 these government aids just sees will do to survive. 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:07.560 I really love and am fascinated by the fact that 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:12.280 they took a military shooter and made a show that 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:14.280 is very critical of militarism. 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:15.760 So that is very interesting and. 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.399 That's when it's gonna keep me watching at this point. 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.879 So on the back on Master chief Ship, Kwan is 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.720 eating his Master chief sits there like a weirdo watching. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.200 He attempts a little humor and she's like, do you 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:29.879 want somebody eat? He's like, yeah, I eat nuts and 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.240 waltz and stuff, which is very funny. She's like, you 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.200 ever take off your helmet, you know, Mandalorian style and 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:40.000 he says like the Mandalorian. No, that's that is the way. Yes, 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.679 that's a different show. But still it's got all my 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.520 you know UI and all the interface stuff in. 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:48.280 The Mandalorian is. 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.000 Well, that's so much Wars in this show. 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.159 But yeah, she's and then Kwan is like, hey, we 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.840 met you remember that? And he's like no, and she 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.159 was like, so a bunch of colonists had got together 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.719 to talk about like what the UEG was doing and 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.800 how oppressive they were being, and someone called in a 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:12.760 bomb threat and then the UNSC Marine Marine Force plus 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:16.680 the Spartans responded and they wiped everybody out, including my mom. 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.320 What do you think about that? And Master she was like, oh, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.840 I remember that. Yeah, the orders were to kill the leader, 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:23.880 but then in the middle of it, the orders changed 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.080 and it was to kill everyone who is there. And 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.400 by the way, that is, I might be remembering this wrong. 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.680 It's been a number of years since I read Reached, 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:34.600 the first book in the Halo series, but that is 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:38.879 like the opening actions of Eric Nyland's Halo Reach, if 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:43.359 I recall correctly. Anyway, master Chief and the rest of 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:48.200 the Spartans to paraphrase him, were basically just following orders. 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.240 And we all know where that's happened before and how 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:50.640 I write. 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.600 And just as he is getting done telling her this, 0:22:55.040 --> 0:23:00.000 an order comes across his visor that says liquidate Qwan Oh, 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:01.480 and he's like, hey, what was. 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:02.160 Your name again? 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.480 Yes, doub He like, doesn't He does it like a 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.560 quick double check, and he's like you're Kuwan right, and 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.800 she's like yep. He's like okay. On Reach. Alarm is 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:17.800 growing because it's clear that Master Chief is acting super weird. 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:23.359 Rather than kill Kwan immediately, he has killed the video 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:27.439 feed from his ship, which is again quite alarming to 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:32.760 UNSC headquarters. Halsey tells Paragowski and Captain Jacob that she 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:37.480 thinks that Master Chief is accessing old memories, which Paragowsky 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.280 is like, oh shit, like do we want our ultimate 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.840 weapons suddenly being going off script and being like, hey, 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:45.560 where did I come from? What have you done? 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:45.679 Now? 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.159 We don't want that, And Halsey's like, this is exactly 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:51.479 why we need the Quartana system to help keep them 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:54.439 under control. And Paragrassy's like, here you go again, pitching 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:59.440 the Quartana system in the middle of emergency. Stop cloning 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:02.879 and I'm talking about Quortana, And she orders Halsey to 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:06.160 get Master Chief under control. The UNSC cuts the oxygen 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.119 level on Master chief ship, which is on autopilots. So 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.160 the idea is they just fall asleep and the ship 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.120 lands and then we can figure it out. The ship 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:17.640 arrives in Reach space. But Chief is tough and he 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:23.600 can somehow just like brute force himself through oxygen deficiency, 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:27.320 and he like wakes up and tweaks the atmosphere controls 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.880 in the ship and now everybody's able to breathe. Paragowsky 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:33.840 orders a full military response to meet the Chief when 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:40.159 he lands, but Halsey very very very very mischievously superses 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:44.200 the order directly to the Spartan squad. She tells the Spartans, Hey, 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:46.760 new orders for you guys, protect Master Chief no matter 0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:49.000 what whoever's trying to harm him, doesn't matter. You protect 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:51.960 Chief and they're like does that mean like UNSC marines 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:58.120 And Halsey's like figure it out, genius, and they're like okay, yeah, 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:00.440 what do you think? Back on the ship, pulls a 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:03.960 battle rifle on Chief, my favorite weapon from the Halo 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:06.080 video game series, as I'm sure I'm not alone in that, 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.720 and Chief is like, listen, I like the I like 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:12.240 the Moxie, but that thing's not even going to scratch me. 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:15.359 I'm like under an energy shield. Under that is like 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:19.919 multiple layers of titanium. Under that is some other fucking 0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:22.359 futuristic shit. There's no way you can even hurt me 0:25:22.400 --> 0:25:23.960 with that, so stop it. Then he takes off his 0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:26.880 helmet and he's like, this is my face. You may 0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:29.119 have recognized me from season two of The Wire on 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:33.119 the Docks. 0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:33.040 With Terrifying Moment. 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:37.040 My name is Pablo Streamer. You've seen me and other stuff. 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:41.440 Here's the right, here's the America Gods. Also, here's the deal. 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:43.960 The UNSC wants to kill you and I'm trying to 0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:46.359 protect you. Now, do you want to put that three 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:48.280 burst into my face? Or do you want to live? 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:52.879 And Kwan's like, I want to live. Okay, So first 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.840 things first, we need to disconnect disconnect the the AI 0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:00.040 control of the ship, and Kwan does that by shooting it. 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:03.439 So master Chief then takes off, but then the uns 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:06.320 cannons knock the Condor out of the sky. The ship 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.840 is surrounded by marines and spartans. They're about to break 0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:12.880 into the ship. But then Master Chief here he goes again. 0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:15.520 He's just obsessed with his artifact. He can't stop thinking 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:17.840 about it. He looks at it on the ground and 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.960 he touches it, and more memories come to the four. 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:26.040 Now he sees people's faces, different things, snippets of rooms, 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:29.600 and more stuff, and the artifact releases a pulse and 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:34.399 Fleet Command loses power. But interestingly, the Condor gets powered 0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:37.639 up and master Chief snaps out of it. He says, 0:26:37.640 --> 0:26:40.880 buckle up, we're out of here, folks, and they fly 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:46.880 away and we're off into episode two. So, Rosie, your 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:48.960 thoughts on episode one of Halo. 0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:53.040 It was very different than I thought it was gonna 0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.399 be same, And the more I think of it, I 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:59.000 actually think that's like a good thing. I think it's 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:02.520 really had to adapt something that is so much about 0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:05.159 the player's experience which is, you know the problem with 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.560 every video game, but specifically a game like this where 0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:13.640 you are in the space and world and mind. And 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:17.159 also like how much of the narrative people know of 0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:19.280 Halo is to do with how much they commit to it, 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:22.000 so for some people that they don't. And I actually 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:26.640 thought that it was really interesting and weird and slow Bernie, 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:29.879 and also as well, like the production value was really great. 0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:31.879 I agree this. 0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:33.560 It looks so good. 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:36.480 So I'm watching We're watching it on screeners. Okay, so 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:40.159 episode one of the screener we get to give us 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:42.440 the first two. I've only seen the first one. Yeah, 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.879 is it's clear that the vfx are are not quite 0:27:47.040 --> 0:27:52.920 all the way polished, but it still looks incredible. Yeah, 0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:58.199 like the the practical effects, explosions, the battle scenes, the 0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:01.879 elites themselves, Like there's just some like minor textural stuff 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:03.840 that it's clear that we're going to fill in, but 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:07.919 like Reach looks incredible. Yeah, High Charity looks incredible. Like 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:09.960 all the stuff looks amazing. 0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:12.800 Something that I think is really cool that I enjoyed 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:14.800 a lot about this, I think was something I didn't 0:28:14.840 --> 0:28:17.040 really get from the trailers. I think a lot of 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:20.560 stuff that came out Halo. You know a lot of 0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:22.680 the movies, a lot of this stuff that came out 0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:26.560 in this era was very like Orange. It had that 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:30.280 color grading of you know, war and sand and barren 0:28:30.560 --> 0:28:32.760 and the green of master Chief and stuff. But this, 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:36.600 there's so many we get that classic opening, Like the 0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:39.360 opening is kind of very Star Wars Star Treki where 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:41.840 you really get the feeling of the colonists before you 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:46.160 see them being massacred sadly. But I just thought they 0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:48.640 actually did such a good job of showing all these 0:28:48.680 --> 0:28:52.280 different worlds and spaces and they all looked so different 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:55.360 and were so visually easy to follow that even though 0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.120 when you're describing it, it's like then they're there, then 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.440 they're there, but you know, from the cinematography, from the 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.680 production design, you immediately know where you are once you've 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:05.480 been there one time. 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:09.880 Yeah, I completely agree. And I and again like I'm 0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:12.720 a big fan of Starship Troopers me too. They love 0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:17.040 it as a like a satire of millistriism that and 0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:23.160 fascism that is so finely tuned that I think probably 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:25.200 the majority of people who watch that movie or just 0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:26.520 when this is a great just action. 0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:27.400 When it came out. 0:29:27.440 --> 0:29:28.600 I think nothing deeper of it. 0:29:28.680 --> 0:29:30.200 Yeah, you know, I have a name. I have a 0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:32.800 nameplate necklace like people get of their names, and mine 0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:36.040 says Viehoven because I love Paul Verehoven so much. And 0:29:36.080 --> 0:29:38.640 when that movie came out, people hated it. People were 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:43.160 like it this is military fascist propaganda, which is what 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:46.600 the book it's based on was. But actually it's such 0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:51.800 a searing, fucking brilliant, brutal satire and every time you 0:29:51.840 --> 0:29:55.560 watch it it still feels absolutely relevant. And I definitely, 0:29:56.040 --> 0:29:58.600 I definitely like that this. This is not as funny 0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:01.520 Starship Troopers is, like Hilario, Yes, but I love that 0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:06.960 this has that same intention of examining the idea of 0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:10.800 like a militarized action show and what it means to 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.600 be a militarized force. I think it's it's a really 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:15.680 interesting and unexpected Yeah. 0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:16.200 I love that. 0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:19.080 I love that too, And it's kind of got this 0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:22.840 iron giant feel to it of we've lost control of 0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:25.479 our weapon. Yeah, you know, our our We've made this 0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:29.760 ultimate weapon, high tech. It is our last hope to 0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.800 like turn back the tide of whatever, whatever whatever, And yes, 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:37.400 we are suspending space civil liberties and oppressing our colonies. 0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:40.400 We have to, but we have to do it, but 0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:44.440 then to lose control of the weapon because the weapon 0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:46.920 is like is this is this the right way to 0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:47.280 be doing? 0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:47.520 Yes? 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:48.200 Is? 0:30:48.360 --> 0:30:50.960 I love stories to it? And so I'm on the hook. 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:53.520 I also think that you some one of the moments 0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:55.720 that you said that's like, I think is actually really 0:30:55.760 --> 0:31:00.000 smart in retrospect, is like how master Chief can weigh 0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:02.440 cup when they turned down the oxygen levels. It's like, 0:31:02.680 --> 0:31:05.640 don't be surprised. You literally built him to be like 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:10.960 immortal infallible, like, and now what happens when that thing 0:31:11.040 --> 0:31:15.239 that you created to destroy other people? To destroy? This 0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:18.120 a you know how many you know, we're talking about 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:20.840 video games, like what about you know, I'm not saying 0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:22.120 this is the route that this is going to go, 0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.640 but I love the implication of like that kind of 0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:28.320 Did you ever play at PlayStation one game Shadow of 0:31:28.320 --> 0:31:32.600 the Colossus? Oh? My right, so the whole time, Yes, 0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:34.280 of course I knew A. 0:31:34.680 --> 0:31:37.920 Shadow of the Colossus for those of you who don't know, 0:31:38.320 --> 0:31:43.640 is a game by one of the great art tours 0:31:43.640 --> 0:31:48.200 of video games for Meido Uta, and it is about 0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:52.040 a person who rides around this beautiful like fantastical landscape 0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:57.560 and is uh, that person's mission is to like kill 0:31:57.600 --> 0:32:01.520 these massive, very gentle beast. 0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:04.640 You know, you're meant to think because it's a monster, 0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:07.520 because you're playing a video game, right, it's a monster, 0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:10.240 and you are the person you've got to kill them, 0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:12.840 and you realize at the end that that you are 0:32:12.880 --> 0:32:14.520 the bad guy. You are not the. 0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:18.840 Killing these these gentle giants that are just like chilling 0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:19.479 in feelings. 0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:23.960 You're like part of the natural order of things. They're 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:26.240 these beautiful and that is like one of the most 0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:31.320 visceral versions of that story that I think of so often, 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:36.040 And I definitely feel like there's something interesting in what 0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:40.680 they're seeding here where it's like master Chief recontextualizing the 0:32:40.720 --> 0:32:43.920 people that he's meant to be killing and realizing that 0:32:43.960 --> 0:32:47.360 there's a humanity to everyone. And that's really I mean, 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:50.360 obviously Pablo Schreiber, he's he's doing the master Chief thing. 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:52.000 It looks incredible. The suit is like. 0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:54.760 Absolutely perfect perfect. 0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:58.480 But yeah, in har who plays Kwanha, I think that's 0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:00.960 the that's the human heart of the show. And I 0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:04.400 think even though you know, her whole family got fridged 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:07.520 and her whole community I think that it's very smart 0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:10.040 to do that kind of man. It's like, you know, 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:13.600 it's the body, it's the body, unexpected team up. It's 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:17.800 the revolutionary and the military man. It's it's a little 0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:20.480 bit mandalorian ish, but you know, there's no child. It's 0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:22.840 just like it's hidden fortress. It's the two people who 0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:26.120 team up. It's a hero's journey. And and Yarinha is 0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:28.400 so good, like when she was she's great doing this 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:32.120 great Quanha did this, like when she does the the 0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:36.280 speech to the doctor and she's saying, she's like, you 0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:37.840 know what, I'm just going to tell them that you 0:33:37.880 --> 0:33:40.640 did it, and she's so unhinged and angry, and You're 0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:43.240 just like, yeah, I wouldn't even blame you. Like they 0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:45.760 have their propaganda and you have yours. So I think 0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:49.280 that this added an unexpectedly kind of human element that 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.400 I wasn't. I don't think that that would have been 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:54.120 the story that got told if this show. 0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:59.600 Got was not expecting them to take this angle on it. 0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:01.360 And so that is the thing that will keep me 0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:03.840 watching because I'm really fascinated. But I'm glad you brought 0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:06.440 up shadow of the classus. Let's talk about some of 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:08.319 our favorite video games. I just want to say about 0:34:08.320 --> 0:34:11.200 Shadow of the Classus. One of the reasons why I 0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:15.440 think Uita is brilliant and that game in particular is 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:19.279 brilliant is that. So one of the mechanics of that 0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:23.520 game is you have to climb these massive closs i right, 0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:27.640 and then kill them. And killing them involves like following 0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:35.080 this like pattern of button prompts like uh, circle, ye, yeah, 0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:38.000 it'll be like circle, triangle, triangle, circle trial, try, and 0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:43.280 it'll be that these these strings of patterns for minutes 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:46.239 and minutes and minutes, and you're like, why am I 0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:48.160 doing this? Why is this so hard? Like why is 0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:50.759 this boss fight like this? The reason it's like that 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:55.400 is the game is making you complicit in the murder 0:34:55.440 --> 0:34:55.960 of these. 0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:58.600 Constantly and for a long time. Like even as you're 0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:00.399 there and you're thinking, why does it take so long? 0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:01.880 Why do I have to press all these buttons? You 0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:05.440 don't stop doing it. You just do it because what 0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:07.239 the game is telling you to do. It's what you 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:09.920 were ordered to do. You. Oh, it's a monster, I 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:12.400 have to kill it. That's the nature of video game. 0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:18.800 And that creates this really really like unique emotional feeling 0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:22.440 of It's one of the saddest games I've ever played 0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:22.759 in my. 0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:28.320 Life when you have the realization of what is happening. Yeah, 0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:31.200 that's the power. I think of those video games rather 0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:33.279 than film and TV. And obviously we love film and 0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:35.640 TV so much, and you know, I had nothing better 0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:37.880 than sitting in a cinema and feeling like you're immersed 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:41.560 in that world. But in video games, you become complicit. 0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:44.440 You take the actions, and you make the choices. It's 0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:47.040 the ultimate pick your own ending story. 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:49.879 What are you are you playing anything right now? 0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:53.919 Okay, so I I do have like a next gen 0:35:54.040 --> 0:35:57.000 system that I do intend to get eldem ring on, 0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:00.520 but this can't wait for you to Yeah, I'm so 0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:02.359 excited for it, and I know it's going to be 0:36:02.440 --> 0:36:07.120 really hard, like any any mission based game, but that 0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:09.759 allows you to kind of roam and do your own thing. 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:12.200 I am the roaming and doing my own thing person. 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:16.800 I literally good news. There's so I will never finish 0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:17.120 the game. 0:36:17.200 --> 0:36:20.560 I still haven't fully completed Breath of the Wild simply 0:36:20.560 --> 0:36:22.759 because all I do is go and cook. I just 0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:25.200 I'm very far and I could finish it if I want, 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.120 but I just play it, and every time, I'm like, well, 0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:28.960 I could do this last boss, or I could just 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:31.640 like I could just go and cook some food and like, 0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:35.520 you know, ride a deer. And I love that notion 0:36:35.560 --> 0:36:37.960 of it, but I have not yet done it. For 0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:40.600 two reasons that I love my Switch. I'm like the 0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:42.120 number one Nintendo. 0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:43.560 Switch big switch fan as well. 0:36:43.680 --> 0:36:45.960 I love it. And there are two games. There's a 0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:50.359 game called Ollie Ollie World, which is a skateboarding platformer 0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:53.920 that is just so addictive and the art style is 0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:58.080 really beautiful. It's absolutely inspired by Pendleton Ward and Adventure Time, 0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.760 and it has the most incredible You could just spend 0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:05.239 like three hours just modeling your character because it's got 0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:08.480 so many different unbelievable options. You can have all different 0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:13.319 kinds of looks and skin tones and hairstyles and tattoos. 0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:18.600 And then it's basically like a really simple but really 0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:21.600 really tricky game where you can play it kind of 0:37:21.600 --> 0:37:24.200 like Tony Hawk, where you can get a number of points, 0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:26.160 but you've always got to finish the course. So that 0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:28.680 and then I was like, okay, well I've played that 0:37:28.719 --> 0:37:31.320 a lot, and I love indie games. I'll always go 0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:33.240 back to it. And I was like, I'll get Elderly 0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:37.279 and then if you have the Switch Online expansion pack, 0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:39.680 which obviously I got for Animal Crossing because I love 0:37:39.760 --> 0:37:45.640 Animal Crossing. I'm a big They just uploaded I think, like, well, 0:37:45.680 --> 0:37:49.799 they uploaded two new sets of Mario Kart courses that 0:37:49.880 --> 0:37:52.719 have absolutely new for Mario Kart eight, which is eight 0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:56.920 new track. So that's it. That's just my life. I 0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.799 absolutely love it. I love Merica, and I was like, 0:38:00.000 --> 0:38:02.080 why weren't they make a new Mario Cup. But now 0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:04.960 I'm like, oh, because they can just keep making new 0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:07.320 tracks for this, and I will happily take. 0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:09.560 Those new tracks, those free new tracks. I know for 0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:12.120 you it's only about one game, so tell me. 0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:15.000 Well, right now I'm playing so much elder Yeah, I've 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:20.200 not been a big Demon Souls Bloodborn person, which is 0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:26.920 the from Soft, the publisher. Those are their previous games 0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:30.640 and the kind of games that were created under the 0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:34.320 stewardship and direction of Hitataka Miyazaki, who's also directed of 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:35.880 the Solo series. So this game is like in the 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:41.239 lineage of those games. But veteran Souls Born players will 0:38:41.239 --> 0:38:44.480 tell you that this is the easiest version. I don't 0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:47.719 know about that. It is still like early game is 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:51.600 so hard. It's so hard, Rosie. It's like everything can 0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:55.799 fucking kill you. Little animals are beating your ends. And 0:38:57.840 --> 0:39:00.680 here's the thing so that this game is it's extremely 0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:02.400 popular and it's great. What do I love? 0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:03.440 Love? 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:07.919 What do I love about it? I love that it's 0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:11.399 like Breath of the Wild. There is a feeling of 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:14.680 the thrill of exploration, of just finding new dungeons, new 0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:19.240 corners of the map, new places, beautiful places, and really 0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:22.200 that's how to progress in the game, because the very 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:23.919 first thing that happens in the game is you come 0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:28.040 out of the tutorial like catacombs, and you're presented with 0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:33.760 this huge night on a steed that you can't beat. 0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:36.640 You can't beat them. Maybe if you're a veteran Souls 0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:39.520 Born player, maybe you can beat them, but like one 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:43.880 hundred percent, you can't fight this thing, and so your 0:39:43.960 --> 0:39:47.200 only option is to go off and explore, and through 0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:51.000 that exploration you can level up and eventually be able 0:39:51.040 --> 0:39:53.759 to fight these various bosses. So it's that kind of 0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:58.239 feeling of what else is there to explore. I'm like, 0:39:58.320 --> 0:40:00.000 I don't know how many hours I'm into this game, 0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:03.400 but there has I'm there's still a whole section of 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:04.440 the map that I haven't online. 0:40:04.520 --> 0:40:07.040 You were saying in Austin you were on like level 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.320 seventy seven or something and it was still so hard, 0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:12.399 Like you have lost the hard pot. 0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:13.400 I'll tell you. 0:40:13.520 --> 0:40:18.160 Right now, I'm level of right now ninety eight and 0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:19.399 I'm still getting my ass. 0:40:19.520 --> 0:40:19.680 Kid. 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:26.080 It's it's interesting because there's this whole discourse has come 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:28.880 up around this game. Part of what makes these games 0:40:28.880 --> 0:40:33.680 so difficult is there is there can how to play 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.960 them is very opaque. There's all these features and tips 0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:39.120 and tricks that you really rely on the community to 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:44.520 tell you. There's all these secret buffs and secret d 0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:48.040 buffs that you can get by like hugging in PCs 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:50.359 and different things in different ways to like make your 0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:54.960 stuff your your your like weaponry and your and your 0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:58.160 power set like work better. But that's not explained to you. 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:02.839 And so this is a real feature of these kind 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:05.760 of games. And also like players can leave little messages 0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:09.560 for you and here there's like a secret passage here, 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.200 and sometimes those are fakes. So what's been interesting is 0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:15.200 there is this whole discourse. Some publishers, some of the 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:17.600 people the devs that worked on another game that got 0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:19.319 released it is also very good that I'm not going 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:22.400 to talk about. But they're in America. We're like, uh, 0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:25.960 you know, why do people like this? Why is this? 0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:28.719 It's so weird like taking shots at this game kind 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:31.520 of like at a not directly, but at a weird angle, 0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:34.440 being like, oh, it's this huge landscape, but it's so empty, 0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:36.879 and like the UI is not good, like you don't 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:39.120 it doesn't tell you all the stuff on the screen. 0:41:39.160 --> 0:41:42.560 And I agree with that to an extent. But the 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:45.480 thing this game does, and this is a hallmark of 0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:49.399 the kind of not to like not to bundle all 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:54.120 Japanese game devs together, okay, but like similar to Shadow 0:41:54.200 --> 0:41:57.799 of the Classes, there's a thing that elden Ring does 0:41:58.560 --> 0:42:03.160 that is kind of like this, uh, where they use 0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:06.360 the mechanics to kind of like enhance a philosophy. And 0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:13.360 the philosophy is, from my perspective, ask the other people 0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:16.840 playing how to play, yes, and so that's what the 0:42:16.880 --> 0:42:20.600 philosophy is. Don't ask us, ask the other players, create 0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:25.200 this community and through that you will discover how to 0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:29.920 play and I And whereas the more western style is 0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:33.279 here's everything you need right, and also like, if you 0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:34.920 need more stuff, you need to be better at it. 0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:37.279 Here's what you can might do micro chans. Oh yeah, 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:39.839 you can pay, you can pay. They give you this 0:42:40.200 --> 0:42:42.200 Eldering gives you everything you need. 0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:44.160 You just need to know you need. 0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:47.120 To ask other people. And I think and there's something 0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:50.399 really uh it sounds hokey, but there's something I think 0:42:50.440 --> 0:42:52.839 really cool about that I watch. Let me, I want 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:55.040 to I want to shout out this creator. Hold on 0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:58.239 a second, because I forgot what his name is, Like, 0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:02.279 I've been watching videos by I'm not I'm not going 0:43:02.320 --> 0:43:04.080 to pronounce this right, but I'm just going to say. 0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:07.680 The creator's name on YouTube is Vati Vidya, So it's 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:11.880 Vaa t I v I d Ya. And this person 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:15.480 like has a ton of content like dealing with bloodborn 0:43:15.600 --> 0:43:19.800 with demon souls and now elden Ring, and this person 0:43:20.520 --> 0:43:25.359 creates truly beautiful content that like really enhances the mythology 0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:28.920 and the wonderful like magic feeling of exploring the game. 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:34.520 And the fact that that elden Ring the creator, velden 0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:39.560 Rings the from software, the publisher and Bandynamco like the 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:42.760 fact that like they are empowering other creators to create 0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:46.160 this stuff around it. They are saying, hey, go and 0:43:46.200 --> 0:43:48.399 seek out these people because they will help you play 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:50.160 the game. I think is really cool and it's part 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:51.759 of what I find so magical about this game. 0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:54.719 I also think like it actually takes from people might 0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:57.120 not remember this because we're both kind of old and 0:43:57.160 --> 0:43:59.520 like gaming has changed a lot, but like it's like 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:01.960 the odd is like we had, like we had to 0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:04.359 communicate with each other to get cheat codes to get 0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:07.680 extra lives. You had to have the friend who knew 0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:10.640 what the cheat code was for the specific really weird 0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:13.120 nichee again, and you always had that one friend or 0:44:13.160 --> 0:44:15.000 you know, you would you would have the one friend, 0:44:15.080 --> 0:44:18.240 or you'd all chip in to buy the Giant Game Guide, 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:20.120 you know, and then you know all the difference she 0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:23.080 had exact place, And I kind of love that. Yeah, 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:25.879 I didn't really know that was such an active part 0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:29.200 of Triple A games until Death Stranding, where they were 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:33.040 literally allowing people to build new objects, and I just 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:35.800 I love It's like what we talk about with comics 0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:38.640 all the time. I love the conversation between creators and 0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:42.640 fans and fans and fans, and that's actually what keeps 0:44:42.640 --> 0:44:47.120 this stuff alive so to me that just I love 0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:49.240 that that's an aspect of the game, because I actually 0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:51.560 think that's the joy of it is. 0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:54.120 That's why we do this podcast. That's why we love the. 0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:55.799 People who listen to it. That's why the people want 0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:57.759 to listen to it is because it's just people talking 0:44:57.760 --> 0:45:00.279 about stuff they love and if you can and it's 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:03.120 even better if that is a reward based Like you 0:45:03.280 --> 0:45:05.400 if you're like I'm talking to you about this and 0:45:05.440 --> 0:45:07.880 guess what now, you can you know, not die for 0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:11.080 ten minutes longer because because I learned something, what do 0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:13.560 you know? And you can like share that. I actually 0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:16.000 think that's really cool. I love the aspect and. 0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:17.919 It's a beautiful game. Like if you like the rest 0:45:17.920 --> 0:45:22.200 of the wild, then you will enjoy this game. Uh, 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.600 just when you get frustrated, just explore. That would be 0:45:25.600 --> 0:45:28.239 my one little hint. Yeah, okay, now people a lot. 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:31.640 Now for the slightly bummer part of this conversation, which 0:45:31.640 --> 0:45:35.320 people people have been asking, Hey, you're gonna play Hogwarts Legacy? 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:37.719 Are you gonna play it? What do you think about it? 0:45:37.760 --> 0:45:39.560 How does it look? And listen, I've watched all the 0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:43.000 videos I have watched. The videos include some more recent 0:45:43.040 --> 0:45:47.000 ones of the more finished build. It looks great. It 0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:53.640 looks triple A. The magic system looks really cool. That said, Yeah, Rosie, 0:45:53.640 --> 0:45:56.080 I don't know how you feel. I'll say how I feel. 0:45:56.160 --> 0:46:02.400 I because of Jk's history of transphobia, semi recent, you 0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:05.839 can't even get history doing this. She's been doing this 0:46:05.880 --> 0:46:11.919 for now, for several years now. I just I can't 0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:14.120 give her any more money. That's a. That's it's really 0:46:14.120 --> 0:46:15.960 that simple. Like I've given her a lot of money. 0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:22.200 I've i have been part of a community of fans 0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:26.680 that loves these stories. But I just can't, in good 0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:28.440 conscience give her any more money. And I've got like 0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:29.800 a lot of games that I could do that I 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:32.400 could easily play. Whatever other people want to do, that 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:34.319 is their business, but I don't. I just feel like 0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:34.759 I can't. 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:36.239 I know, I totally agree with you. 0:46:36.320 --> 0:46:39.920 It's it's a it's a it's a huge disappointment, I 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:43.160 think for lots of people. Yeah, Like it's it's one 0:46:43.200 --> 0:46:45.480 of those things that we are both people who not 0:46:45.560 --> 0:46:48.879 only have we like loved Harry Potter, have been part 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:52.080 of amazing communities, but like that's part of why we 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:55.959 get to do this because yeah, Jason's won my one's 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:58.839 back there, Like this is part of why we get 0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:00.799 to do this for our job, which is amazing, is 0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:03.080 because that was something that we spoke about or we 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:05.640 talked about or we kind of shared with people, you know. 0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:09.760 But I'm the same. I can't. I don't get any now, 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:12.960 not only ethically do I not want to support, but 0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:14.839 I don't get any love out of it. I can't 0:47:14.880 --> 0:47:16.680 ignore it. I can't separate it really hard. 0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:17.880 I can't. I couldn't. 0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:22.120 It's active, it's it's harmful, especially in the wake of 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:27.760 the kind of transphobic laws and anti LGBTQ IA plus 0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:31.240 laws that are going across that is having a massive 0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:33.280 platform and spreading that kind of hatred. 0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:37.160 It just the violence that that community faces, and it 0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:41.480 creates more virulce violent death. Like it's just it's actually 0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:44.840 not in any way. No, I couldn't. I couldn't. You 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:46.520 give her more money. 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.160 And there is plenty of like you said, there's magical, 0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:52.360 amazing games. Especially I think like the Switch for me 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:55.520 really changed my life. And I've never really been a 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:58.040 PC game mat so, so the Switch has changed my 0:47:58.080 --> 0:48:01.560 life because now there's all these incredible indie games made 0:48:01.560 --> 0:48:04.000 by queer creators, made by transcreators, and you can just 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:07.040 access them on the Switch. The Switch has incredible sales, 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:10.000 like I got Spiritfarer, which is easily one of my 0:48:10.040 --> 0:48:11.000 favorite games of all time. 0:48:11.080 --> 0:48:12.440 Game unbelievable. 0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:15.080 I got it in a Switch sale. It's a beautiful 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:18.319 game about death and grieving and it's kind of this 0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:23.400 incredible platformer and it has the most unbelievable explorations of 0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:25.880 love and different kinds of love and different kinds of people, 0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.360 and it is just so wonderful. And to me, I'm like, 0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:31.319 I love Triple A gaming and it's so exciting. And 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:33.360 I've got a much better I have terrible hand to 0:48:33.400 --> 0:48:36.120 my coordination, and I sucked at video games. 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:38.160 When I was a kid, but I've lost my son. 0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:41.000 Now you know I'm doing better. So you know what, 0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:41.720 I'm lucky. 0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:42.320 I'm an adult. 0:48:42.360 --> 0:48:44.400 I get to make my own decisions. That's not something 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:46.840 either of us are going to decide to support. 0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:49.640 Before we move on, Have you played Celeste? 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:50.080 Yes? 0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:54.480 I actually yeah, I uh yeah, Celeste. I almost got 0:48:54.480 --> 0:48:57.720 to write something very cool about that game, a project 0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:00.560 that never happened. But that's another a brilliant game about 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:02.799 mental health depression. 0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:05.080 One of the I think one of the most profound 0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:10.120 statements about mental health in a popular format ever. Believe 0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:13.680 the video games Celeste, which is in a an extremely 0:49:14.480 --> 0:49:19.399 hard but rewarding in its hardness platformer with I think 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:24.320 one of the one of the great like original soundtracks 0:49:24.320 --> 0:49:28.600 in a video game ever. It's really cool like electro indie. Uh, 0:49:28.600 --> 0:49:32.239 soundtrack by Lena Rain if you have a switch, and 0:49:32.280 --> 0:49:35.239 I think it's available actually in the in the in 0:49:35.320 --> 0:49:41.080 the game stores of most major consoles. Celest. Great story, 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:45.840 beautifully told, wonderful art, great music. Try it out. Uh, 0:49:46.680 --> 0:49:49.120 next up, let's talk. What do you say we talked 0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:52.320 to the great, the legendary Grant Morrison. 0:49:52.520 --> 0:49:54.160 I mean, is there anything bad? 0:49:55.000 --> 0:50:09.120 No, is not. Let's do it. Welcome to the Hive Mind, 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:11.440 where we explore topic in greater depth. Was a helpful 0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:13.759 an expert guest today, folks, let's get right to it. 0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:19.280 The legendary, the legendary, the iconic, incredibly influential Grant Morrison. 0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:21.960 Grant, it's so good to see you, and thank you 0:50:22.000 --> 0:50:22.800 so much for coming. 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:24.680 It's just yes, so wonderful. 0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:27.399 Oh, you're welcome. I see I see this, I see 0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:28.280 this camera movement. 0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:35.320 It's a it's a free wheeling conversation. 0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:41.359 So important, spinning hitchcocky. 0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:45.120 It's our fourth guest. I mean it's our second guest, 0:50:45.239 --> 0:50:48.239 or four of us. But yeah, something we talk about 0:50:48.239 --> 0:50:50.560 a lot on here because we like love comics, like 0:50:51.040 --> 0:50:51.920 I make comics. 0:50:52.040 --> 0:50:52.880 Jason's a writer. 0:50:53.239 --> 0:50:55.879 We we love reading them. What was kind of your 0:50:55.920 --> 0:50:58.719 comic book origin. What was the thing that made you 0:50:59.000 --> 0:50:59.760 love comics. 0:51:00.080 --> 0:51:02.759 I just I was a little kid in the sixties 0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:05.919 and comics were always about and I was lucky enough 0:51:05.920 --> 0:51:08.759 that my mother was into science fiction, so she was 0:51:08.760 --> 0:51:13.400 a huge fan of sort of science fiction paperbacks and 0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:15.560 all those you know, kind of fifties, sixties, all the 0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:17.479 really cool stuff, so I had that around the house. 0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:20.480 I was very into the imagery, though I didn't particularly 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:24.520 like the books, but comics were there as well. And 0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:26.520 it was my uncle Billy particularly. He was the same 0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:29.360 guy who got me into the occult later. But he 0:51:29.440 --> 0:51:32.400 had this huge family and cats and dogs and rabbits 0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:36.200 and stuff, and they had comic books about all the 0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:38.240 all the time, So it was it was the Flash 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:40.759 was the one that always remember, I mean, the first 0:51:40.800 --> 0:51:43.759 the first comic I remember from when I was like 0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:47.080 three years old. Was actually a marvel Man, a British thing, 0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:48.960 you know, that the one that Alan now eventually did 0:51:49.000 --> 0:51:51.440 that became Miracle Man, But it was the very early 0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:54.520 stuff with Mcanngelo marvel Man, and I remember that was 0:51:54.520 --> 0:51:57.360 it was marvel Man beats Baron Minchausen and it was 0:51:57.400 --> 0:52:00.440 just this mad no, it was this mad story. I 0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:02.480 love that it's got like, you know, there's he ties 0:52:02.480 --> 0:52:05.560 his donkey to this kind of hitching post and then 0:52:05.640 --> 0:52:07.680 in the morning all the snows melted and the donkey's 0:52:07.719 --> 0:52:11.080 hanging off the spider the local steeple, and it was 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:14.840 just it was all these weird, these weird Barren moonshous 0:52:14.840 --> 0:52:17.319 and stories, but with marvel Man involved in it, so 0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:19.120 that that was the one that stuck in my mind. 0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:21.920 And that idea of the costume the Superman, you know, 0:52:22.040 --> 0:52:24.840 seemed kind of intriguing, but it was the it was 0:52:24.880 --> 0:52:27.120 the Flash for me really. I found these ones when 0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:28.640 I was starting to get a bit more, you know, 0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:31.560 a bit older as a kid, like six or seven, 0:52:31.680 --> 0:52:35.560 and the Flash comics just really fascinated me. They were 0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:38.400 just so wild and psychedelic and colorful, and I just 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:40.920 loved the idea that you could move at super speed, 0:52:41.160 --> 0:52:43.120 and of course if you moved at super speed, you 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:45.920 would wear that costume, you know, and it's like the best, 0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:50.120 just the best costume and comics, the best boots ever invented, 0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:53.400 you know. So I kind of esthetically I loved the Flash. 0:52:53.440 --> 0:52:56.000 I loved the rounded buttocks of the Flash and the 0:52:56.480 --> 0:52:59.160 runners muscles, you know, and just this the sleekness of 0:52:59.160 --> 0:53:02.080 the whole thing. And so that that was it. And 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:03.920 from there it was kind of I remember things like 0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:07.120 leading the superheroes and stuff. But it wasn't until I 0:53:07.120 --> 0:53:09.200 was twelve years old and I was in hospital for 0:53:09.239 --> 0:53:13.600 an appendix operation and my aunt Aina, who was Billy's wife, 0:53:13.680 --> 0:53:15.680 brought me in a big ton of comics and that 0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:17.799 was it. I became hooked for at that minute. And 0:53:17.880 --> 0:53:19.600 they just they kind of got me through that whole 0:53:19.600 --> 0:53:22.600 hospital experience and I was just so into it. I 0:53:22.640 --> 0:53:26.000 remember it was Action comics, Superboy and Flash for the 0:53:26.080 --> 0:53:28.640 three that really did it for me. So that was 0:53:28.719 --> 0:53:30.880 my kind of origin. Then I became just a classic 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:34.680 fan boy, you know. I visited every store in Glasgow 0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:36.600 meet and my friends would sort of get together and 0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:40.280 we'd just do these like super like like forty mile walks, 0:53:40.360 --> 0:53:42.319 you know, to find every comic store and they be 0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:46.799 sinning because we didn't have dedicated stores back then, so 0:53:46.840 --> 0:53:49.040 you would have to go to every local news agent 0:53:49.239 --> 0:53:51.959 or you know whatever, a drug store or whatever you'd 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:55.680 call it, and they all had different comics. Because the 0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:58.840 distribution was so spotty, we just we just kind of 0:53:58.880 --> 0:54:02.200 got whatever came in on the ships, so you would 0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:05.520 find all kinds of different versions of that month's comic books, 0:54:05.560 --> 0:54:07.400 and it was really it was kind of exciting. You know, 0:54:07.440 --> 0:54:10.239 you walk for miles and come home with this call, 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:12.920 and sometimes it would be really boring, and sometimes you 0:54:13.080 --> 0:54:15.640 just get some of the best comics ever. So that 0:54:16.120 --> 0:54:17.600 was it for me, you know. Once I was a 0:54:17.640 --> 0:54:21.120 teas I got really into the whole collecting and fan 0:54:21.200 --> 0:54:25.440 boyish kind of aspect of it, and then just came 0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:27.920 about the notion of I always wanted to write. I 0:54:27.960 --> 0:54:30.480 love drawing, so wouldn't it be great to do comic books. 0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:34.520 I'm kind of trying to pursue that. Unfortunately, I was 0:54:34.680 --> 0:54:38.320 young at the time the British invasion happened, and the 0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:41.720 American editors were coming here to kind of find people 0:54:41.760 --> 0:54:43.640 to do their work. So I was in the right 0:54:43.640 --> 0:54:45.480 place at the right time to do something I love 0:54:45.560 --> 0:54:45.839 to do. 0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:51.360 When I think about the comics that you write, there's 0:54:51.360 --> 0:54:57.520 often a self referential quality. Equality of these are created 0:54:57.520 --> 0:55:02.880 by a comics reader who who understands the character and 0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:08.120 is in some way commenting on the image of the 0:55:08.280 --> 0:55:11.680 character through the story. Was that always something you were 0:55:11.719 --> 0:55:14.440 going for that just kind of happened organically as you 0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:16.840 were embarking on your writing career. 0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:19.239 I guess it happened as I got into it. But 0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:22.560 for me, it's honestly it's a literalism that will eventually 0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:25.319 be revealed as something that weird adhd or something. But 0:55:26.400 --> 0:55:28.840 you know, it was just a super literal approach to it, 0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:31.200 which I thought was was was useful to me was 0:55:31.239 --> 0:55:35.840 to just think, what's the actual artifact, what is the 0:55:37.000 --> 0:55:39.600 what is the exchange going on between me and the 0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:42.440 writer of account. It's very different from books or from cinema. 0:55:42.920 --> 0:55:45.680 You know, on television or cinema, you can kind of 0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:48.440 the director tells you what to do. You know, you're 0:55:48.480 --> 0:55:50.600 taking through the two hour movie. It's it's a fifty 0:55:50.640 --> 0:55:53.319 minute drama and you kind of have to stay with it, 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:55.680 you know, it's possible to stop and start, but not 0:55:55.760 --> 0:55:59.960 in the way with a comic. It's super integrated. You know, 0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:02.200 the experience that the writers and the artists bring to 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:04.880 it's tactile. You're holding it, you turn the pages, you 0:56:04.920 --> 0:56:07.200 can go backwards and forwards. You can if you've stuck 0:56:07.200 --> 0:56:08.640 in a bit of the store, you can go back 0:56:08.680 --> 0:56:12.279 and really stare at an image in a way that 0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:15.120 you don't do with any other format. So for me, 0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:18.320 that became the interesting thing is the actual the physicality, 0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:21.360 and they did the actual reality of what is Superman. 0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:25.440 Superman is that collection of thousands of thousands of pages that, 0:56:25.480 --> 0:56:29.479 when assembled, creates this concept of a character. And even 0:56:29.520 --> 0:56:33.160 though that character's personalities changed radically, and in the eighties 0:56:33.200 --> 0:56:36.399 of so years he's been around, I think everyone still 0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:39.360 agrees there's something about it that we all understand to 0:56:39.400 --> 0:56:42.279 be Superman. It's not just the sign, it's not just 0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:45.440 the costume of the colors. There's an essential character that 0:56:45.520 --> 0:56:49.880 is somehow I created over all that time. So I 0:56:49.920 --> 0:56:52.719 became fascinated by that. That not in the way that 0:56:53.160 --> 0:56:54.719 you know, I think some of my peers would be 0:56:54.719 --> 0:56:56.839 interested in telling stories, but what if it was real? 0:56:56.920 --> 0:56:59.520 You know, what if the Marvel universe actually existed, but 0:56:59.600 --> 0:57:02.560 it's six one six, you know, it's over there somewhere, 0:57:02.960 --> 0:57:04.719 whereas to me, it was never over there. It was 0:57:04.840 --> 0:57:07.640 right here. You could hold it. You could collect all 0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:09.840 those books and have the entire Marvel Us in a 0:57:09.960 --> 0:57:13.600 room if you wanted. And that was the real Marvel universe. 0:57:13.640 --> 0:57:16.040 It was physical, it was touchable, it's tangible, and it 0:57:16.120 --> 0:57:20.080 developed through decades, and it took like hundreds or ye 0:57:20.160 --> 0:57:22.960 potentially be now thousands of people who would give up 0:57:22.960 --> 0:57:27.760 their time and their creativity to sustain this hyper object. 0:57:28.320 --> 0:57:30.520 So for me, that honestly became the fascinating thing, and 0:57:30.560 --> 0:57:33.800 it was to take it super literally and to then think, 0:57:33.840 --> 0:57:36.360 what is what am I doing here? I'm not necessarily 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:40.600 telling stories. Although I am telling stories, the stories also 0:57:40.680 --> 0:57:42.960 have to take into account the fact that the characters 0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:47.000 exist as these bizarre thought forms that have outlived me 0:57:47.200 --> 0:57:50.200 and will outlive you know, Scott Snyder, and will outlive 0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:52.920 you know, Frank Miller. It's like they're bigger than us, 0:57:52.920 --> 0:57:55.760 and in port way are they bigger than us? So 0:57:56.080 --> 0:57:59.080 the stories also then had to kind of address that, 0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:01.040 and I think what you see in my work that 0:58:01.160 --> 0:58:03.720 people call meta fiction. Baly, you think it's meta fiction 0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:08.000 is a much more concrete, tized attempt to grapple with 0:58:08.160 --> 0:58:11.480 the object and the way the characters expressed themselves through 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:15.080 these specific objects, and how we relate to that. You know, 0:58:15.120 --> 0:58:17.800 It's a lot going on that we took for granted 0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:20.760 just just reading comics, you know, and the exchange of 0:58:20.800 --> 0:58:23.880 information and the way we allow people into heads who 0:58:23.880 --> 0:58:26.320 may have very different politics or ideas, but we just 0:58:26.400 --> 0:58:30.080 let them straight in there. So as you can see, 0:58:30.120 --> 0:58:34.720 that became a huge field of interesting of exploration. For me, 0:58:34.920 --> 0:58:38.160 was just that relationship, and it meant that they were 0:58:38.200 --> 0:58:39.960 real because I couldn't deal with them. I didn't want 0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:41.960 to just write fantasy stories of what would it be 0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:44.280 like if you lived in the New York Spider Man 0:58:44.480 --> 0:58:48.120 was there. That's meaning it's meaningless because I'm never going 0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:50.320 to go to New York Spider Man's there. It's utterly 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:55.840 meaningless as a concept that we have created internally inside 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:58.680 our universe, a simulation with Spider Man who's played out 0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:03.240 this immense over decades, and he's adapted his continuity in 0:59:03.320 --> 0:59:07.240 order to constantly seem fresh and going, what the hell 0:59:07.320 --> 0:59:11.400 is that? What is that organism? And then that was 0:59:11.440 --> 0:59:14.520 that was it? So I mean long answer, like sorry, convolated, 0:59:14.560 --> 0:59:17.320 but that's how I came at it was trying to 0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:20.919 actually have a relationship with it that was very real, 0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:23.920 and that they treated the characters as real, as treated 0:59:23.960 --> 0:59:28.040 the ideas and it as having a longevity that was 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:30.920 beyond human And so what did that make them? You know, 0:59:31.000 --> 0:59:33.760 put them almost in the realm of gods or of 0:59:33.800 --> 0:59:37.280 ideas that have outlasted generations and going on for hundreds 0:59:37.400 --> 0:59:40.640 of thousands of years. And that was That's always been 0:59:40.840 --> 0:59:43.200 my kind of point of contact and what I wanted 0:59:43.200 --> 0:59:43.720 to explore. 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:49.080 Yeah, I remember I once did like a comics writing 0:59:49.080 --> 0:59:51.520 class with Mike Kerrey and he talked about The X 0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:54.360 Men in that way where he basically said, this is 0:59:55.320 --> 0:59:57.880 if somebody found every single issue of the X Men, 0:59:57.920 --> 1:00:00.280 they would think this was like the Iliad. I would 1:00:00.320 --> 1:00:03.439 think this was this huge human story that had been 1:00:03.480 --> 1:00:06.120 going on for So what was it like for you 1:00:06.160 --> 1:00:11.080 as a fan and a cartoonist and a writer when 1:00:11.120 --> 1:00:13.760 you started, when you had that realization that you were 1:00:13.800 --> 1:00:16.120 adding to that mythology and you were kind of part 1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:17.320 of that ongoing puzzle. 1:00:17.360 --> 1:00:18.400 How did that feel. 1:00:19.160 --> 1:00:22.800 I felt very interesting to see the least, you know, 1:00:23.120 --> 1:00:24.680 that was amazing. But you know I was young. I 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:27.520 was twenty seven I think when I started an Animal Man, 1:00:28.080 --> 1:00:31.640 and that was my first attempt to explore that. That's 1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:33.560 when I really get into you can see those first 1:00:33.600 --> 1:00:35.200 few issues of me trying to do what was a 1:00:35.240 --> 1:00:39.560 traditional kind of superhero. Yeah, deconstruction of the day, you know, 1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:42.760 a Frank Alan, the kind of what if it was real, 1:00:42.840 --> 1:00:45.160 you know, it would be a bit like this, And 1:00:45.240 --> 1:00:50.120 I lost all interested in that very quickly. So no, 1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:51.560 and it's not I mean, I'm not trying to be 1:00:51.640 --> 1:00:53.400 rude about anyone. And people have explored that. 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:56.280 No, no, it's just your own taste, very clear from them, 1:00:56.320 --> 1:00:59.040 run you know, absolutely, but people have explored, you know, 1:00:59.280 --> 1:01:00.280 what would it be like to. 1:01:00.240 --> 1:01:02.960 Be what psychologically what would be like? And honestly, my 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:06.480 one feeling is like that seems like dilla tantish of 1:01:06.600 --> 1:01:10.840 relevant questions because the only formly exist is here, So 1:01:10.880 --> 1:01:13.440 what do they do? What's the function here? What? You know? 1:01:13.480 --> 1:01:16.720 So that so I was kind of with with Animal Man. 1:01:16.760 --> 1:01:19.240 I began to explore that and it was quite primitive then, 1:01:19.280 --> 1:01:21.840 you know, I sent in a little drawing of myself, 1:01:22.280 --> 1:01:24.880 and you know, the artists didn't quite understand the clothes 1:01:24.920 --> 1:01:27.120 I was wearing. I look like I'm wearing these cossack 1:01:27.640 --> 1:01:30.240 clothes and I'm doing this. The first page you see me, 1:01:30.520 --> 1:01:33.360 I'm on my chair doing this kind of Cossack Russian dance. 1:01:33.400 --> 1:01:37.400 It's amazing. So but this was, this was this little 1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:40.040 thing I sent in there, and it was what a 1:01:40.160 --> 1:01:42.040 later came to call a fiction suit, and it was 1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:44.760 the idea, well, okay, these characters exist, but I can 1:01:44.800 --> 1:01:48.640 create a representation of myself and actually talk to them, 1:01:49.240 --> 1:01:51.480 actually going to have dialogue. And even though it's like 1:01:51.520 --> 1:01:54.600 their responder, obviously i'm writing animal's words, but I'm trying 1:01:54.600 --> 1:01:56.600 to give it that as much autonomy. In my head, 1:01:56.600 --> 1:01:59.560 I'm thinking, Okay, if this guy is real, I've spent 1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:02.760 twenty five issues establishing a personality. He's got a family, 1:02:02.880 --> 1:02:04.840 is into this kind of music, he likes this kind 1:02:04.840 --> 1:02:08.360 of food. What would his answer to this question be? 1:02:08.960 --> 1:02:11.000 So trying to give him as much autonomy as a 1:02:11.080 --> 1:02:14.280 character of thinking, Okay, I'll just accept if Buddy's mad 1:02:14.320 --> 1:02:16.880 at me, then I'm going to deal with That's if 1:02:16.880 --> 1:02:19.000 he questions what I've got to say I'll deal with that, 1:02:19.880 --> 1:02:22.800 and again trying to always give the characters the dignity 1:02:22.800 --> 1:02:26.000 of outlasting me. You know, I was twenty seven where 1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:27.960 I did it. I was younger than him. Now now 1:02:27.960 --> 1:02:30.800 I'm a Rumbly's age and he like, give me the bastard. 1:02:30.880 --> 1:02:34.240 It's like, are you danswer my grave? So what am 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:36.840 I talking to there? What is the scale of the 1:02:38.160 --> 1:02:41.320 creature of the entity express through the pages? So again 1:02:41.480 --> 1:02:43.480 I keep bringing it back to the esoteric. But that's 1:02:43.720 --> 1:02:45.320 what I was going with, and I know man was 1:02:45.400 --> 1:02:48.240 quite a simplistic way of doing that. It was like 1:02:48.360 --> 1:02:51.120 sending a little drawing of yourself and talk to the 1:02:51.200 --> 1:02:56.200 characters and make him understand that you're aware of your spatial, 1:02:57.760 --> 1:03:02.360 geometrical dimensional relationship to them, but that you're not necessarily 1:03:02.400 --> 1:03:06.720 privileged privileging yourself in relation to them. And see what happens, 1:03:06.760 --> 1:03:09.080 you know, see what happens, and then have animal I 1:03:09.120 --> 1:03:12.640 can see you, And I think that moment is still powerful, Yeah, 1:03:12.640 --> 1:03:16.600 because it's real. It's a real moment. I wrote him 1:03:16.680 --> 1:03:19.840 to really see out of that comic book, so that 1:03:19.920 --> 1:03:22.320 actually happened to that character and he had that moment, 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:24.600 and that that's what makes him who he is. 1:03:24.880 --> 1:03:28.000 You started with Animal Man in eighty eight, so this 1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:32.600 is post Crisis on Infinite Earth's kind of a reset 1:03:32.680 --> 1:03:37.040 for DC. And and it was, in retrospect, a pretty 1:03:37.080 --> 1:03:41.040 audacious choice at a character who I think everybody would 1:03:41.040 --> 1:03:44.560 agree with, you know, kind of like a minor character 1:03:44.640 --> 1:03:47.680 in the firmament of DC. And then you do this 1:03:47.840 --> 1:03:53.080 really original, kind of mind bending reflection on a character 1:03:53.160 --> 1:03:54.960 that not a lot of people had thought about. What 1:03:55.160 --> 1:03:59.919 was it that made you decide, Okay, animal Man, That's 1:04:00.720 --> 1:04:02.960 that's the character I want to explore right now at 1:04:02.960 --> 1:04:04.000 this stage of my career. 1:04:04.200 --> 1:04:07.080 No, I mean, I honestly, it was the obscurity I 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:10.200 think of Animal Man was the number one thing. And 1:04:10.280 --> 1:04:12.720 as I say, the vogue at the time was to 1:04:12.760 --> 1:04:16.840 pick up characters who weren't necessarily DC's a list, and 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:19.440 they were kind of throwing them at British writers, you know, 1:04:19.600 --> 1:04:23.640 to Alan Moohood had very big success like making swamp 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:27.600 thing work in a completely new way. And so the know, 1:04:27.760 --> 1:04:29.840 Neil Gaming came in and he took what had been 1:04:29.960 --> 1:04:35.480 Jack Kirby's sand Man does sand Man? You know, they 1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:37.520 were kind of realizing that we knew what we were 1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:40.040 talking about. So but as I said, the vogue goes 1:04:40.120 --> 1:04:42.680 very much to can you take a character from our 1:04:42.800 --> 1:04:45.760 catalog that just hasn't worked for maybe twenty or thirty 1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:48.440 years in d see any potential in that? So I 1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:50.280 knew that was I knew that's the way they were 1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:53.800 coming to it. And I always had this fascination with 1:04:53.880 --> 1:04:57.200 animal man. I just am I love animals, the big 1:04:57.240 --> 1:04:59.600 thing about animals since I was a kid. And here 1:04:59.680 --> 1:05:02.320 was this actor who could do this, and it seemed 1:05:02.320 --> 1:05:04.400 a very unique power that a lot of other characters 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.120 didn't have. It was really specific, it was easy to understand, 1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:11.200 but he hadn't really made a big splash. And I 1:05:11.280 --> 1:05:14.080 also loved it because he started as a my greatest 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:16.840 adventure story, so it wasn't even a superhero story, just 1:05:16.880 --> 1:05:19.800 so just this dude who goes out one day and 1:05:19.880 --> 1:05:22.880 gets animal powers. So I kind of loved that as well. Mate, 1:05:22.880 --> 1:05:25.280 it grounded them a lot more. Maybe you can you 1:05:25.280 --> 1:05:27.479 could imagine the movie that one. You know, I only 1:05:27.560 --> 1:05:31.640 just put on a costume, So going into it was just, yeah, 1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:33.640 I've got an idea about that, And I don't think 1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:37.000 you know Karen Berger or Ditchio Danna or Jeanette Canibell 1:05:37.040 --> 1:05:38.880 have even heard the name of animal Man in the 1:05:38.920 --> 1:05:42.040 last twenty years. You know. It's like when Neil Neil 1:05:42.120 --> 1:05:44.760 walked in with Black Black Orchid and they said who 1:05:44.840 --> 1:05:49.480 Black hartckead? So they I think in a lot of 1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:52.000 ways they didn't know what kind of characters they had 1:05:52.040 --> 1:05:55.200 and as long as they heard their interesting pitch. Then 1:05:55.440 --> 1:06:00.080 at the time, the desire for novelty was such that 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:03.360 weigh down really good opportunity to do these things. So yeah, 1:06:03.360 --> 1:06:05.400 I just I pitched them on that, and I didn't 1:06:05.400 --> 1:06:09.400 have the so called meter fictional aspect at that time, 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:12.640 but also the secondary thing that I loved with the 1:06:12.680 --> 1:06:16.640 animal rights thing. And again but again it was part 1:06:16.680 --> 1:06:19.160 of the old thinking because Swamp Thing was very much 1:06:19.160 --> 1:06:21.920 an eco comic and I love that aspect of it. 1:06:21.960 --> 1:06:24.640 So I thought, well, let's do this specifically because you know, 1:06:24.680 --> 1:06:28.160 I'm an animal liberation frunt supporter back in the days 1:06:28.160 --> 1:06:31.720 before it was illegal and all that, you know, Hunt 1:06:31.840 --> 1:06:34.040 Sabatur stuff, the whole thing. So I thought, he's my 1:06:34.200 --> 1:06:37.560 chance to do what Alan's doing with swamp Thing, you know, 1:06:37.640 --> 1:06:40.560 the ecal thing, but I'll talk specifically about animal rights 1:06:40.560 --> 1:06:43.600 and all this stuff I'm kind of involved in. So 1:06:43.720 --> 1:06:47.000 that was the secondary big thing with Animal Man. And 1:06:47.120 --> 1:06:48.880 as I say, it was only when I got tissue 1:06:48.960 --> 1:06:50.760 five and I thought, I just don't want to do 1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:56.040 this eco swamp thing kind of poetic caption stuff, So 1:06:56.200 --> 1:06:59.320 what can I do? And that became like, let's just 1:06:59.480 --> 1:07:01.880 do it. And I thought, people, people will hate this. 1:07:02.000 --> 1:07:03.480 If you put yourself in the comic, they're going to 1:07:03.560 --> 1:07:05.720 hate it. They're going to just you'll spoil the magic. 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:08.400 I just knew that was that's what I wanted to 1:07:08.400 --> 1:07:10.280 talk about it. And I thought, what I'm talking about 1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:14.480 is the actual reality of this yeah DC universe. And 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:18.120 I think ultimately that people will find that interesting, and. 1:07:18.280 --> 1:07:22.040 I mean they did, and that's become the the the 1:07:22.080 --> 1:07:24.680 author and in the books, the death of the author, 1:07:24.720 --> 1:07:27.320 sometimes physically on the page has become such a comic 1:07:27.400 --> 1:07:30.680 book trope. Now, So you really and obviously like I 1:07:31.240 --> 1:07:35.160 love that Animal Man kind of these pictures gave everyone 1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:38.960 this freedom to do this wild kind of esoteric stuff. 1:07:39.240 --> 1:07:42.000 But then like a year later, you you were like 1:07:42.440 --> 1:07:46.280 doing Batman with Arkhamisira, So like, what was it like 1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:48.720 to go from this one of the you talk about 1:07:49.040 --> 1:07:52.280 the kind of godly nature, the immortals of comics, these 1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:54.880 kind of new mythology. What was it like from basically 1:07:54.960 --> 1:07:58.439 getting to introduce a generation of people to Animal Man 1:07:58.520 --> 1:08:02.480 to taking on someone who's one of these three kind 1:08:02.560 --> 1:08:05.520 of icons of of DC comics and comics in general. 1:08:06.360 --> 1:08:08.760 Yeah, well, they they came at the same time because 1:08:08.760 --> 1:08:11.440 when I went down to visit DC, when I got 1:08:11.440 --> 1:08:13.880 the invite to come and pitch some stuff on the 1:08:13.960 --> 1:08:17.160 day that they kind of signed everyone. So I went 1:08:17.200 --> 1:08:19.840 down and it was Animal Man was the one. I'd 1:08:19.880 --> 1:08:21.519 kind of come up with that on the train because 1:08:21.520 --> 1:08:24.400 I thought I'd come up with Animal Man was very 1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:27.040 swiftly created out of just here's what I'm into, Here's 1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:29.840 what I'd love to just write about. But Archiemasilam had 1:08:29.840 --> 1:08:33.120 been in my head for years and it been plotted out, 1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:35.280 and I had talked over with with a good friend 1:08:35.320 --> 1:08:40.320 of mine in Glasgow who was just obsessively into psychology 1:08:40.600 --> 1:08:44.000 and symbolism. So we went through this whole kind of 1:08:44.120 --> 1:08:46.639 process long before that. I've hold you do with Batman? 1:08:46.680 --> 1:08:49.639 How would hope would be a Batman story? And Lenn Wayne, 1:08:49.680 --> 1:08:53.240 who's probably my biggest influence in comics, had done a 1:08:53.280 --> 1:08:56.680 Who's Who in DC entry about Archem Asylum and he 1:08:56.800 --> 1:08:58.800 just had to invent this stuff from whole clause. So 1:08:58.880 --> 1:09:01.400 he talks about, you know, I'm as Arkham was the founder. 1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:05.519 The guy committed suicide, or I didn't commit suicide. He 1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:08.559 kills one of his patients after the stock market collapse. 1:09:09.000 --> 1:09:11.600 But there's just a line that says, after finding his 1:09:11.680 --> 1:09:15.080 wife and child, murthered and he commits suicide because of 1:09:15.120 --> 1:09:17.599 the stock market collaps And I said, well, well, let's back track. 1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:21.040 He's surely finding your wife and child. Bud might have 1:09:22.680 --> 1:09:27.320 tiggered the suicidal response. So but that one line was 1:09:27.360 --> 1:09:30.200 just like, Okay, let's tell that guy's story. That seems interesting. 1:09:30.520 --> 1:09:33.240 And I think I've read Arkham quite recently and I'm 1:09:33.280 --> 1:09:35.880 going to write a big piece about it again because 1:09:35.920 --> 1:09:39.240 I think it's been very misunderstood over these But I 1:09:39.240 --> 1:09:42.120 think that whole story of Ammade's arkm is really interesting, 1:09:42.200 --> 1:09:46.360 and that's what gives it the real Gothic Underton. 1:09:46.160 --> 1:09:49.280 Why do you think people have misunderstood. 1:09:48.960 --> 1:09:52.559 I think they misunderstood that from the very beginning. They 1:09:52.600 --> 1:09:55.040 didn't understand that what we were trying to do was 1:09:55.080 --> 1:09:58.600 like a European like one of those like Jan Schwankmeyer 1:09:58.760 --> 1:10:02.679 puppet movies. One was animated, something really cranky, like wood cut, 1:10:02.880 --> 1:10:07.880 like you know, like like Nosferatu, like what's his name? 1:10:08.000 --> 1:10:11.280 Like that, you know, the vampire guy, like I'm forgetting 1:10:11.280 --> 1:10:20.000 the names. But it was not not Branstoe. Yeah right 1:10:20.120 --> 1:10:22.560 more now. So that's what we were looking at and 1:10:22.640 --> 1:10:25.880 German expressionism. And we thought because I was, I was 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:28.439 going to the cinema a lot to see kind of 1:10:28.479 --> 1:10:30.840 weird like you know, with my adrends messures of the 1:10:30.880 --> 1:10:34.160 afternoon and a lot of John Cocktails stuff which we 1:10:34.240 --> 1:10:37.400 loved as well, and fed into Batman, and we thought, 1:10:37.400 --> 1:10:39.639 can we do a Batman? It's like a Tarot card, 1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:42.280 that's like an exploded Tarot card. So then we took 1:10:42.320 --> 1:10:45.200 the idea of that the Moon Tarot, which was trumpeteen 1:10:45.760 --> 1:10:49.320 and it's a it's about trial and initiation, it's about 1:10:49.320 --> 1:10:53.280 illusion and intoxication and madness. So we took that. So 1:10:53.439 --> 1:10:56.080 what if we do it's almost like a Taro card 1:10:56.160 --> 1:10:59.120 folded out with Batman going on their journey through all 1:10:59.200 --> 1:11:03.000 the symbolism that Tarot club and plugging the villains in 1:11:03.920 --> 1:11:07.840 and so what I think people people after things like 1:11:08.000 --> 1:11:10.080 Killing Joke and after Dark Night. They were looking for 1:11:10.120 --> 1:11:14.960 another big, cinematic kind of American Batman, and we did. 1:11:15.120 --> 1:11:19.240 We did this euro Batman and himself. But it was 1:11:19.280 --> 1:11:21.439 also it was like that because they said to me like, well, 1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:25.680 the new Batman is he doubts his missions. This is 1:11:25.720 --> 1:11:27.599 the new way we're looking at him. This is the grounded, 1:11:27.640 --> 1:11:30.679 gritty way. So I thought, let's let's talk about that. 1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:33.920 But for me, it was always this was this was 1:11:33.960 --> 1:11:36.679 a dream that Bruce Wayne would have every week maybe 1:11:37.479 --> 1:11:39.439 and he would wake up from this. It was Alice 1:11:39.439 --> 1:11:42.280 in Wonderland, and it's structured like Alice in Wonderland. It's 1:11:42.280 --> 1:11:45.240 got Alice, it's got Carol coats at either end. So 1:11:45.280 --> 1:11:48.439 the whole idea was to do something was much more 1:11:48.640 --> 1:11:52.640 kind of left brainy or you know, poetic or is 1:11:52.680 --> 1:11:55.960 it left being a right brain remember, but you know 1:11:56.000 --> 1:11:57.880 what I mean. It was like we wanted to do 1:11:57.960 --> 1:12:03.719 this euro puppet, thea to Crag Silouettes kinder version of Batman, 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:06.920 and I think it was constantly compared to things that 1:12:06.960 --> 1:12:11.880 were much more cinematic, much more Hollywood, much more blockbuster 1:12:12.120 --> 1:12:15.400 versions of Batman, which in themselves would not love these books, 1:12:15.439 --> 1:12:19.040 but it wasn't what we were doing. And I've rarely 1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:24.720 seen it critiqued, and in that, you know, I've never 1:12:24.720 --> 1:12:28.360 seen it critiqued as what's it like the cocktail, what's 1:12:28.360 --> 1:12:32.200 it like? What are they taking from Yan Schrankmeyer here? 1:12:32.240 --> 1:12:35.120 What is it? You know, it's like it's always critiqued 1:12:35.600 --> 1:12:37.760 in the ways that it's not like killing Joke a 1:12:37.880 --> 1:12:38.439 Dark Knight. 1:12:40.320 --> 1:12:42.320 The cast of releasing a book. 1:12:44.280 --> 1:12:47.880 Massive, but people, it's weird because it's the biggest selling 1:12:47.880 --> 1:12:50.879 graphic novel ever. I mean, I still get massive royalties 1:12:50.880 --> 1:12:53.599 from that one book, which were published thirty years ago. 1:12:53.680 --> 1:12:58.439 But there was always, even in dcar reluctance to admit 1:12:58.560 --> 1:13:02.080 to its success has really talked about in those terms, 1:13:02.400 --> 1:13:04.960 which are kind of fine, fascinating. So again, you know, 1:13:06.000 --> 1:13:08.400 it's an interesting one to me. I think it's it 1:13:09.080 --> 1:13:11.519 should be looked at from a different angle, maybe because 1:13:11.520 --> 1:13:14.360 I bling it's new did a lot of great criticism 1:13:14.439 --> 1:13:15.000 over the year. 1:13:15.479 --> 1:13:20.639 It's interesting that that story has a lot of elements 1:13:21.080 --> 1:13:25.440 obviously a lot of deep symbolic elements, multi layered elements, 1:13:25.560 --> 1:13:30.000 is kind of like psychological gothic horror feel to it. 1:13:31.280 --> 1:13:34.720 How was that received at the time, and just to 1:13:36.520 --> 1:13:40.600 piggyback off what you were saying, it's interesting that you 1:13:40.760 --> 1:13:44.360 felt like, oh, this story was out of step with 1:13:44.479 --> 1:13:47.880 the kind of like cinematic intent at the time, and 1:13:47.960 --> 1:13:50.880 yet a lot of that stuff has now found its 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:55.519 way into cinema, into Batman movies, into The Dark Knight, 1:13:55.680 --> 1:13:58.720 into the latest Batman movie. A lot of that kind 1:13:58.800 --> 1:14:02.519 of tone and molic referential nature. 1:14:02.760 --> 1:14:05.080 Yeh, I think definitely, And a lot of those filmmakers 1:14:05.080 --> 1:14:07.559 grew up with that book. I mean, and I think, 1:14:07.800 --> 1:14:12.879 I mean honestly, initially I imagined it as a very super 1:14:13.000 --> 1:14:15.400 like focused thing I've talked about before us and I 1:14:15.400 --> 1:14:18.599 imagine someone not not necessarily Brian Bolland, but Gary Leech 1:14:18.720 --> 1:14:21.479 or someone in that you know, who would super draw 1:14:21.560 --> 1:14:25.320 every detail like Dave Gibbons. Yeah, I kind of imagine 1:14:25.320 --> 1:14:29.000 that this hyper sensitive, like super every every bit of 1:14:29.080 --> 1:14:34.240 dirt is in your face. When it came out, and people, 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:37.200 people were very you know, the reaction was that was 1:14:37.200 --> 1:14:40.320 was quite negative, I think from generally from within the 1:14:40.320 --> 1:14:43.280 comic book community and not so much from outside. But 1:14:44.240 --> 1:14:46.000 I mean, honestly, what Dave mc keen did, I mean, 1:14:46.000 --> 1:14:48.360 looking back, is that that's exactly the way the book 1:14:48.360 --> 1:14:51.519 should be. And that is why that's why filmmakers still 1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:53.680 love that book because of what Dave did. It's like 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:56.360 he just took it to a level that I think, 1:14:57.240 --> 1:14:59.640 you know, anyone who's in the Batman comes in and 1:14:59.680 --> 1:15:03.800 that's one that's beyond all the others. That's the weird one. 1:15:03.840 --> 1:15:05.640 That's what all of you read after we got to 1:15:05.680 --> 1:15:09.599 that one, you know. And I think, honestly, all that Dave, 1:15:09.680 --> 1:15:12.479 and it says why I've gone back and I've been studying. 1:15:12.720 --> 1:15:14.559 I'm kind of loving it again because I was so 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:17.920 anti that the negative reaction was so strong. I really 1:15:18.040 --> 1:15:20.519 was like, oh no, honestly, nothing to do with me, folks. 1:15:20.560 --> 1:15:20.840 You know. 1:15:21.640 --> 1:15:23.960 Yeah, when I worked in a comic bookshop in London 1:15:24.520 --> 1:15:27.680 and that was one of our perennial you've got to 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:30.680 read this, and then it was horror comics people, and 1:15:30.720 --> 1:15:32.760 it was film people and it was super. 1:15:33.560 --> 1:15:36.479 But do you think visually, I think it really brings in. 1:15:36.560 --> 1:15:38.479 The Directors always love it, like you. 1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:43.040 Know, all the time, it's like storyboard, Yeah, but it's not. 1:15:43.160 --> 1:15:46.679 It's because it's so internalized. It's like inside that man said, 1:15:46.680 --> 1:15:49.080 it's not like well, what if he was real? You know, 1:15:49.760 --> 1:15:53.280 yeah it wasn't real. Yeah, but it wasn't What if 1:15:53.280 --> 1:15:55.120 this was Bruce Wayne's dream and all you had to 1:15:55.160 --> 1:15:56.760 do was have them going to sleep at one end 1:15:56.800 --> 1:15:59.240 and waking up that and it's like you're not allowed 1:15:59.280 --> 1:16:01.920 to really tell that story. Oh it was all a dream. 1:16:01.960 --> 1:16:04.240 But here's the story that is a stage play. It 1:16:04.280 --> 1:16:06.880 would work. It's like that is and that's why I 1:16:06.920 --> 1:16:12.240 think it draws, like you know, it draws filmmakers, particularly directors. 1:16:12.240 --> 1:16:15.679 You always hear them that's the favorite, but that's honestly, 1:16:15.720 --> 1:16:18.320 that's Dave and it's Dave's staging. He was just like, 1:16:19.280 --> 1:16:21.120 that was like getting the best director I could have 1:16:21.160 --> 1:16:23.839 hoped for because my vision for it was too small. 1:16:24.439 --> 1:16:28.720 Yeah, and something that's kind of I guess something that 1:16:28.720 --> 1:16:30.719 if I'm really interesting about that, I think I would. 1:16:30.720 --> 1:16:32.599 I'm so excited that you want to write about it 1:16:32.640 --> 1:16:36.280 more because now we have an accessibility to stuff like 1:16:36.320 --> 1:16:39.000 Spank Mayer. You know, the Jabbawaki's just on Yeah, it's 1:16:39.040 --> 1:16:40.960 just on YouTube, and a lot of people, I think 1:16:41.000 --> 1:16:43.719 they haven't seen that stuff. They haven't read Bandedestinae before. 1:16:43.760 --> 1:16:44.280 They hadn't. 1:16:44.479 --> 1:16:46.400 But also it's stuff they would love. I mean, I 1:16:46.680 --> 1:16:48.559 think all that all that stuff is like, you know, 1:16:48.640 --> 1:16:51.720 people who are into the genre movies, they're going to 1:16:51.840 --> 1:16:55.120 love the spank wild stuff. It's just it was avant 1:16:55.160 --> 1:16:57.800 garde in the eighties or the nineties, but right now, 1:16:57.880 --> 1:17:01.160 I think it's like people's imagine have been broadened by 1:17:01.160 --> 1:17:04.639 all kinds of television shows and films. Everyone's been walking 1:17:04.720 --> 1:17:07.680 up to science fiction and fantasy and horror. So I 1:17:08.040 --> 1:17:11.800 think things like that that once we're completely outsider kind 1:17:11.840 --> 1:17:15.320 of stuff would easily fit it. Like it's show these 1:17:15.439 --> 1:17:18.320 you know, spank mass Alice and all the early stuff. 1:17:18.360 --> 1:17:20.400 It's it's amazing. Yeah. 1:17:20.400 --> 1:17:22.160 Also, I mean you can watch if you have a 1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:26.280 library card, you can watch Cabinet of Doctor Caligary for free, 1:17:26.640 --> 1:17:29.080 you know, on the on the streaming services and stuff. 1:17:29.200 --> 1:17:31.360 So I think it would be really cool to I 1:17:31.360 --> 1:17:33.679 mean that book, like you said, it's like the most 1:17:33.680 --> 1:17:38.920 successful like graphic novel ever, so people can read it. Yeah. 1:17:39.200 --> 1:17:42.760 Crazy, And I feel weird because I've always been defensive 1:17:42.800 --> 1:17:45.320 about it and I've stopped. I've decided no, I'm out, 1:17:45.360 --> 1:17:47.720 and that was a great thing. You know, I'm not 1:17:47.840 --> 1:17:49.200 going to be defensive anymore. 1:17:49.439 --> 1:17:52.160 I'd love to see people get to recontextualize it with 1:17:52.240 --> 1:17:54.120 that knowledge and those kind of touch points. 1:17:54.360 --> 1:17:56.800 I mean, who knows if they will, but I think 1:17:56.880 --> 1:17:59.160 they should look at it that way. It's like theater. 1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:03.120 It's like, it's not comics, it's not it's like after all, 1:18:03.240 --> 1:18:07.280 it's like, you know, it's those influences, aware of what 1:18:07.439 --> 1:18:10.920 made Afterhan Asylum, And I've never seen it kind of 1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:14.600 studied in those terms. I've always seen it compared to films, 1:18:14.640 --> 1:18:17.920 something else that was not influenced. 1:18:17.360 --> 1:18:20.840 By About a year ago, Tim Silly, the artist Tim Silly, 1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:25.559 shared a panel from your run on Batman. I think 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:30.320 it's Batman six six six, and it's Damien, and around 1:18:30.360 --> 1:18:36.160 Damien are these text bubbles that are the television news 1:18:36.240 --> 1:18:40.520 like that he is listening. Yeah, and it's like temperatures. 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:44.920 Temperatures rose for a record breaking one hundred and twenty 1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:51.599 third day. Quarantine receptions remain, but yeah, China epidemics which 1:18:51.640 --> 1:18:54.000 claim more than eight ten million lives will soon be 1:18:54.080 --> 1:18:56.479 under control, say Chinese health authorities. And this is two 1:18:56.520 --> 1:19:00.280 thousand and seven. And it's interesting because when people talk 1:19:00.280 --> 1:19:02.320 about your work, they often talk about this kind of 1:19:03.560 --> 1:19:09.439 far flung almost predictive quality. And at the same time, 1:19:09.479 --> 1:19:13.880 I think if you look back, you're just drawing very logical, 1:19:14.160 --> 1:19:17.040 rational lines from things that were happening at the time. 1:19:17.960 --> 1:19:19.400 How do you feel about that stuff? Now? 1:19:20.320 --> 1:19:23.000 It's just weather. It's just like seeing how the weather works, 1:19:23.040 --> 1:19:25.400 you know. Yeah, you know, as I've always said one 1:19:26.640 --> 1:19:29.200 when I talk about magic, you know, one part of magic. 1:19:30.160 --> 1:19:32.800 Back in the days of the Pharaohs, you would be 1:19:32.840 --> 1:19:35.639 considered magic if you'd worked out how the nile works, 1:19:35.640 --> 1:19:39.360 and what's how the season's work, and sometimes that fertilizes 1:19:39.360 --> 1:19:42.519 the valley and sometimes it's dry. To the pharaoh, your 1:19:42.800 --> 1:19:47.320 knowledge is magic because he's not thought on these scales. 1:19:47.360 --> 1:19:51.400 He's not studied those particular patterns. So it's just onnest. 1:19:51.560 --> 1:19:54.080 It's just a case of here's the pattern, here's what 1:19:54.080 --> 1:19:56.479 it's obviously going to play out, here's how it's played 1:19:56.520 --> 1:19:58.760 out before in history, and here's how it's likely to 1:19:58.800 --> 1:20:01.320 play it again. Because these things tend to fractal in 1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:05.080 the same ways, and this is what it's likely to 1:20:05.120 --> 1:20:08.840 be like in ten years time. So it's not hard. 1:20:08.920 --> 1:20:12.560 But like I said, magic sometimes looks like magic to 1:20:12.680 --> 1:20:15.679 people in the same way the weather looks. Weather looks like, well, 1:20:15.680 --> 1:20:17.920 how do they know what the weather's going to be 1:20:17.920 --> 1:20:20.960 in LA And yet they can tell you to the minute. 1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:24.080 They tell you the clouds will pass at twelve eight. 1:20:24.200 --> 1:20:27.439 Oh wow, the clouds just passed. So it's it's just 1:20:27.840 --> 1:20:31.839 it's just observation, you know, and seeing where the strands 1:20:31.840 --> 1:20:34.240 are going to play. And that's that's why I'm very 1:20:34.280 --> 1:20:37.160 concerned that I live four miles from NATO's number one 1:20:37.400 --> 1:20:42.240 nuclear target. Yeah, I'm in I'm in the red zone, 1:20:42.280 --> 1:20:47.639 the actual red bit wherever thing is obliterated. So yeah, 1:20:47.720 --> 1:20:48.320 think about that. 1:20:49.479 --> 1:20:49.960 It's fun. 1:20:50.200 --> 1:20:51.120 It's fun. 1:20:52.439 --> 1:20:55.599 Kind of I guess, like in the in the something 1:20:55.640 --> 1:20:59.040 that I feel like kind of combines that predictive nature 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:02.360 and that kind of that more esoteric, but also links 1:21:02.360 --> 1:21:06.120 into like talking about how you originally imagined Arkham as 1:21:06.160 --> 1:21:09.519 this super detailed, hyper detailed thing. Let's talk about X Men, 1:21:09.600 --> 1:21:12.599 because New x Men, you know Frank's work on there. 1:21:12.920 --> 1:21:15.400 That is a book that I feel like it ended 1:21:15.479 --> 1:21:18.000 up predicting a lot, It ended up shaping how the 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:22.519 X Men existed for decades on screen in comics. What 1:21:22.840 --> 1:21:26.040 was it like for you? You take your DC Batman like 1:21:26.120 --> 1:21:28.920 that you've done that pillar. What was it like for 1:21:28.960 --> 1:21:30.920 you to take on the X Men, who have this again, 1:21:31.000 --> 1:21:36.000 that is a mythological amount of space to play with 1:21:36.120 --> 1:21:39.080 and stories to add to. What was your kind of 1:21:39.120 --> 1:21:41.680 approach there and how did new X Men come to be? 1:21:42.840 --> 1:21:46.400 Well, it was the jok aside called off and they said, 1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:47.720 do you want to do a Spider Man at the 1:21:47.880 --> 1:21:54.679 X Men? Like spiderbout? I just have no conation, never 1:21:54.720 --> 1:21:57.599 had any canation that kind of feel nothing about Spider Man, 1:21:57.800 --> 1:22:00.840 not like the movies. But I had nothing for Spider Man. 1:22:01.240 --> 1:22:03.760 But I like team books, I like ensemble books, and 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:06.760 I like, you know, different characters kind of clashing with 1:22:06.760 --> 1:22:10.720 one another. So I said, I'll do X Men, And 1:22:10.760 --> 1:22:12.920 then thinking about it was just like what can we 1:22:12.920 --> 1:22:17.160 do with XHn? I hate the kind of the persecuted thing, 1:22:17.439 --> 1:22:19.200 you know. I thought it was time and it seemed 1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:22.960 like time again. It's like the nostalgia, the poignancy of 1:22:23.000 --> 1:22:26.280 the past. In about two thousand, you know, everyone thought 1:22:26.280 --> 1:22:28.320 we're really doing it. Here's been ten years since the 1:22:28.400 --> 1:22:31.639 follow the Berlin Oh wow, globalization is a good one, 1:22:31.760 --> 1:22:35.439 not a bad one. You know. There was this sense 1:22:35.520 --> 1:22:37.960 like there was a potentially the twenty first century it 1:22:38.080 --> 1:22:41.479 come and then everything really changed and it's got just 1:22:41.560 --> 1:22:44.600 more and more of Bussett. But The X Men was 1:22:44.680 --> 1:22:47.000 kind of coming after the Invisibles, and the Invisibles had 1:22:47.000 --> 1:22:50.280 been very topian, and I began to see the different 1:22:50.320 --> 1:22:53.920 strands that would the utopian vision might not be you know, 1:22:54.000 --> 1:22:56.680 that might be a bit sixties, a bit you know, 1:22:56.760 --> 1:22:59.439 you were taking a lot of extacy. Of course, everything 1:22:59.479 --> 1:23:02.840 looked wonderfu so there was that sense of where where's 1:23:02.840 --> 1:23:05.439 it going to go next? And but what I did 1:23:05.479 --> 1:23:08.000 want to do, like I say, was I really saw 1:23:08.040 --> 1:23:10.360 the eyes of Greek culture so that there was going 1:23:10.400 --> 1:23:12.160 to be superhero films. Now there's going to be a 1:23:12.200 --> 1:23:17.040 retreat into almost infantilism, where culture would back off from 1:23:17.080 --> 1:23:20.240 the future because the future was suddenly scary. It was 1:23:20.320 --> 1:23:22.519 we don't want to go there anymore. It's like, oh no, 1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:25.840 it's it's dystopia. They used to be Star Trek. Now 1:23:25.880 --> 1:23:29.400 it's it's the Walking Dead. And even though there was 1:23:29.439 --> 1:23:31.920 Walking Dead, wasn't around that time. But that's that's my man. 1:23:32.479 --> 1:23:35.880 These are my two polarities, you know. And at that time, 1:23:35.920 --> 1:23:38.200 it was like, oh, let's let's not face the future. 1:23:38.280 --> 1:23:40.800 Let's let's talk about the past. So you get in 1:23:40.880 --> 1:23:45.120 music recycled. Everything was recycled, and children's comics from the 1:23:45.160 --> 1:23:49.439 sixties were being turned into blockbusters. So it was about 1:23:49.479 --> 1:23:52.120 that and I thought, well, that's the it's the idea 1:23:52.120 --> 1:23:55.120 of the Greek culture. And they had culture, the underground culture. 1:23:55.280 --> 1:23:58.760 Goss all of us who were alternative suddenly get exposed 1:23:58.760 --> 1:24:01.679 to the light, you know, and said of Clayboy bunnies, 1:24:01.720 --> 1:24:04.920 suddenly it's suicide girls. It was like the alternative was 1:24:05.080 --> 1:24:09.240 sexed up and sold and so that was annoyingly but 1:24:10.320 --> 1:24:12.559 I thought, I have to kind of reflect the fact. 1:24:12.720 --> 1:24:15.880 And in a way that means wy we poisoned them, 1:24:15.920 --> 1:24:18.760 we colonized them. So but we never knew what to 1:24:18.840 --> 1:24:25.280 do with what we've done. But yeah, they you know, 1:24:25.400 --> 1:24:29.400 it's true our food, they watch our movies, they love 1:24:29.400 --> 1:24:32.120 our characters. So we we won, but we kind of 1:24:32.160 --> 1:24:34.519 they were creepier and weird doing us, so they kind 1:24:34.520 --> 1:24:38.840 of messed up. But X Men was about, well what 1:24:38.920 --> 1:24:41.280 if they won? Because I was fed up with the persecution, 1:24:41.360 --> 1:24:44.080 the effort. I thought, what if humanity finds out tomorrow 1:24:44.360 --> 1:24:46.439 that we have an extinction gene. It's done it's like, 1:24:46.520 --> 1:24:49.559 you guys are like a cancer. It's been nature just 1:24:49.600 --> 1:24:53.439 shut you down. And the reason Homo superior exists is 1:24:53.439 --> 1:24:55.559 in order to carry this forward in the same way 1:24:55.560 --> 1:24:58.960 that you carried it for from Neanderthals, whatever your story 1:24:59.000 --> 1:25:02.559 you tell yourself is. And it became I thought, the 1:25:02.600 --> 1:25:05.000 others this potential there, because then you can create the 1:25:05.000 --> 1:25:08.920 idea of mutant culture and notion like because the idea 1:25:08.920 --> 1:25:11.840 of humans fighting mutants, I thought, it seems a bit 1:25:12.760 --> 1:25:17.120 like punching down if the mutants are just a persecuted minority. 1:25:17.160 --> 1:25:19.599 But I thought, what if they become like they're coming 1:25:19.680 --> 1:25:22.839 for you. They are your children, they are the future, 1:25:22.880 --> 1:25:24.559 and all the things you believed are abit to be 1:25:24.600 --> 1:25:30.200 overturned by these beautiful young freaks. And so it was 1:25:30.280 --> 1:25:32.720 kind of like I said, it was me talking about 1:25:32.760 --> 1:25:35.800 what was happening at the time, but it was like, 1:25:35.840 --> 1:25:38.040 so what if they suddenly you found out you are 1:25:38.120 --> 1:25:39.960 it's over? And it was because to me, that's the 1:25:40.000 --> 1:25:44.280 reality of growing older. It's like there's other people coming, 1:25:44.439 --> 1:25:48.040 move on. And so rather than the next men being like, oh, 1:25:48.080 --> 1:25:50.280 they're under the thumb, and it's the sentence, it's more 1:25:50.479 --> 1:25:54.120 they're winning that would really make the war intensify, and 1:25:54.120 --> 1:25:55.920 I thought that what gives it more drama. You know, 1:25:55.960 --> 1:25:59.640 It's like humans are now reacting to potential extinction, but 1:26:00.040 --> 1:26:02.960 we can imagine that the nice mutants will probably figure 1:26:03.080 --> 1:26:06.679 a way to save so you have this great drama. 1:26:07.439 --> 1:26:10.679 And that that was it. So I thought, I always 1:26:11.120 --> 1:26:13.600 my favorite X mem was just the whole Chris Claremont 1:26:13.720 --> 1:26:16.200 John Burns thing when I was a kid, so you know, 1:26:16.360 --> 1:26:18.280 that was the one. It was just like he was 1:26:18.320 --> 1:26:21.320 hitting every note and it was very progressive for the time. 1:26:21.840 --> 1:26:24.439 So I was looking back at that and I thought, 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:27.720 and in the way that the Justice League was the 1:26:28.160 --> 1:26:30.679 kind of mythology it was like folk tales of larger 1:26:30.720 --> 1:26:33.360 than life figures. The X Men is is soap opera. 1:26:33.400 --> 1:26:35.840 You know, it's always about soap opera. So I thought, 1:26:35.840 --> 1:26:37.840 it's got to have evil twins. It's got to have. 1:26:38.800 --> 1:26:41.000 It's got to have the Joan Collins bitch. It's got 1:26:41.040 --> 1:26:43.120 to have, you know. It was just all I had 1:26:43.200 --> 1:26:48.760 built it like dynasty, you know, like dynasty, and that 1:26:48.920 --> 1:26:50.840 was where I thought, So it's got to be Soper 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:54.879 was good, constantly falling out affairs and like screaming matches 1:26:56.160 --> 1:26:59.120 so yeah, so that that was where it came from, 1:26:59.120 --> 1:27:03.400 and I just built tied that. And then the weirdness 1:27:03.479 --> 1:27:06.680 of kind of almost predicting what in ninety eleven that 1:27:06.720 --> 1:27:09.880 we had that issue that is not like but you 1:27:09.880 --> 1:27:12.320 can feel it. You can feel it like I see 1:27:12.800 --> 1:27:15.599 the weather, you can feel it coming. So there was that, 1:27:15.680 --> 1:27:18.280 and then it was kind of became this post ninety eleven, 1:27:18.800 --> 1:27:21.320 you know, here is the future. How you deal with it? 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:24.639 Yeah, it's very interesting. I want to unpack something you said, 1:27:24.680 --> 1:27:28.520 because I find it fascinating. I think most many creators, 1:27:28.520 --> 1:27:32.360 many storytellers, would think, okay, let's start our characters at 1:27:32.360 --> 1:27:35.160 this at at a kind of low level, and then 1:27:35.400 --> 1:27:37.559 you know, in fits and starts, let's get them to 1:27:37.720 --> 1:27:41.879 finish somewhere higher. And you said something very interesting, tapping 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.880 into the kind of feeling at the time, late nineties, 1:27:45.360 --> 1:27:48.800 early two thousand's, pre nine to eleven, the idea that 1:27:50.000 --> 1:27:55.680 Western capitalism is won, we won, Russians are done, Communism 1:27:55.800 --> 1:27:56.240 is done. 1:27:56.439 --> 1:27:58.839 Yeah, the end of history Francis VII. 1:27:59.240 --> 1:28:01.960 The end of history, right, And so you plug into 1:28:01.960 --> 1:28:04.519 all of that and say, okay, the mutants have won. 1:28:04.680 --> 1:28:07.680 They're actually like gods that walk the earth. The celebrities, 1:28:08.160 --> 1:28:13.599 they look beautiful, they're extremely powerful, they're incredibly rich. They won, and. 1:28:13.560 --> 1:28:17.760 Then you. 1:28:17.800 --> 1:28:20.400 And then you found the drama through this and what 1:28:20.560 --> 1:28:25.280 comes after the victory was was that? How did you 1:28:25.320 --> 1:28:28.040 pitch that to Marvel or was it just and and 1:28:28.920 --> 1:28:31.120 what was their reaction to that when you said, I 1:28:31.120 --> 1:28:33.320 want to do it where they win, where you know, Joe, 1:28:33.360 --> 1:28:34.479 I want to do it where they win. 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:37.800 No, even everyone was fine with it because they just 1:28:37.800 --> 1:28:40.240 wanted to shake the thing up. And there was you know, 1:28:40.280 --> 1:28:42.280 I had, I had the whole proposal I sent and 1:28:42.400 --> 1:28:45.040 from beginning to end, and that they changed a little bit, 1:28:45.160 --> 1:28:48.320 but not much. And the whole Zone review is right there. 1:28:48.400 --> 1:28:50.200 You know, you can read it. It's it's there. But 1:28:51.520 --> 1:28:54.719 they were fine with it. It was only afterwards. But suddenly, 1:28:54.840 --> 1:28:58.320 let's make them the League of Minority again. I just thought, well, 1:28:58.800 --> 1:29:01.840 you know, and then that scarlet, which wonder, my wife, 1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:10.640 this is the vision you're talking to this plastic monstrosity 1:29:10.760 --> 1:29:13.360 as the vision. No so, and then she just like 1:29:13.439 --> 1:29:16.880 waits Morow again, which was a weird, but it's what 1:29:16.920 --> 1:29:18.960 you can do. And that's what happens if you're living 1:29:18.960 --> 1:29:22.160 in a fictional universe you never reality and or someone 1:29:22.240 --> 1:29:24.960 could just say no more mutants and all that story 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:26.559 potential disappears as. 1:29:26.400 --> 1:29:29.360 A creator, because I mean, I like how you're like 1:29:29.439 --> 1:29:33.600 you you accept that that's how it is. Perhaps you 1:29:33.680 --> 1:29:36.280 have such a great philosophical, kind of esoteric way of 1:29:36.320 --> 1:29:37.200 looking at these stories. 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:38.360 But how does it feel. 1:29:38.120 --> 1:29:39.800 To you when you see that kind of thing happen? 1:29:39.880 --> 1:29:42.439 Like is it part and parcel? Is it two sides 1:29:42.439 --> 1:29:44.639 of the sword of you being able to create something 1:29:44.640 --> 1:29:47.400 incredible as someone else can take it away? But how 1:29:47.400 --> 1:29:49.439 does it feel for you, as the person who birthed 1:29:49.439 --> 1:29:52.519 those ideas along with your artistic collaborators, to kind of 1:29:52.520 --> 1:29:55.520 see them changed or erased? 1:29:56.720 --> 1:29:59.519 So honestly, it's disappointing, as you might imagine and or 1:29:59.560 --> 1:30:02.120 buy this same time, it's it's part of the parcel 1:30:02.160 --> 1:30:05.960 of the compact that has made ye where there's tons 1:30:06.000 --> 1:30:08.920 of us making this quilt, you know, and something, so 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:11.840 it's slightly differently and I can't and it's it's not 1:30:12.960 --> 1:30:15.800 you know, I'll just look at things that I've done 1:30:15.840 --> 1:30:17.880 of other people do versions of them, and it's, oh, 1:30:18.120 --> 1:30:20.080 you don't get it. I don't get it. I'm sure 1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:23.640 they feel exactly the same because it's all it's all interpretation, 1:30:23.800 --> 1:30:26.479 So you have to remember that it's just it's like 1:30:26.520 --> 1:30:28.960 a role like I had Batman, you know, with with 1:30:29.439 --> 1:30:33.400 Dick Grayson was says, it's just a role you've got 1:30:33.439 --> 1:30:35.240 to play, you know. Being the X Men, you take 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:37.960 on that role for a few years and you hope 1:30:37.960 --> 1:30:41.839 that your version of your portrayal of that is remembered fondly. 1:30:42.360 --> 1:30:45.120 But there will be other portrayals that seem to to 1:30:45.200 --> 1:30:47.439 you know, to kind of contradict that, like the difference 1:30:47.439 --> 1:30:53.080 between Jaquin Phoenix's Joker and you know, the other boy 1:30:53.200 --> 1:31:00.320 what's his name, I've forgotten Jardtime as well. They're all 1:31:00.439 --> 1:31:03.000 very different, and I think you just have to in 1:31:03.080 --> 1:31:07.519 long running superhero universes and continuities, you have to understand 1:31:07.520 --> 1:31:10.439 that everyone's got to take in some of the teakes. 1:31:10.439 --> 1:31:12.360 You'll go, you don't, don't we all get it. You 1:31:12.360 --> 1:31:14.760 haven't read that book. You don't understand that that game 1:31:14.800 --> 1:31:16.760 meant that when he said that, what she meant that 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:19.439 when she was writing. So you kind of just have to. 1:31:20.000 --> 1:31:23.040 I tend not to read them afterwards because it is 1:31:23.640 --> 1:31:25.559 a bit like, you know, it's like you know, it's 1:31:25.600 --> 1:31:27.800 just seen someone else getting out of your yes, your 1:31:27.920 --> 1:31:32.680 love you go he okay, I'm wish you guys all 1:31:32.720 --> 1:31:33.160 the best. 1:31:33.240 --> 1:31:38.439 But you kind of actually lean into something that we've 1:31:38.439 --> 1:31:40.880 been talking about a lot there, which is like, we 1:31:40.960 --> 1:31:44.000 are living in an unprecedented time as people who grew 1:31:44.080 --> 1:31:46.040 up with this stuff who it wasn't or it was 1:31:46.080 --> 1:31:49.400 on the fringe, it was radical, it was subversive, and 1:31:49.520 --> 1:31:52.640 now we're living in a world where all these corporations 1:31:52.640 --> 1:31:59.000 are talking about multi verses, different versions of the same characters. Yeah, 1:31:59.160 --> 1:32:01.800 you know what, what how does that feel to you 1:32:01.880 --> 1:32:05.919 to be living in this space where people can imagine 1:32:05.960 --> 1:32:07.720 the things that you've been saying and the way that 1:32:07.800 --> 1:32:11.479 you understood it as these different characters living alongside each other. 1:32:11.640 --> 1:32:13.160 And it's kind of like, what's it like to see 1:32:13.160 --> 1:32:17.479 that become real in this kind of modern day space. 1:32:17.800 --> 1:32:19.880 Well, it's not so much it's become real as I 1:32:19.880 --> 1:32:22.920 think what you're what you're saying is it's become commodified 1:32:22.920 --> 1:32:25.400 in a way that before it was seen as as 1:32:25.479 --> 1:32:30.000 non commodifiable. But we made the multiverse commodifiable to everyone 1:32:30.040 --> 1:32:36.000 wants one, you know. But but you kind of think 1:32:36.040 --> 1:32:39.599 that through and I've always talked to the multiverse. It's like, well, 1:32:39.640 --> 1:32:42.120 corporations would love this because it's like, you know, it's 1:32:42.120 --> 1:32:45.840 like orange kit cat, coffee kit cat, k cat, it's 1:32:45.880 --> 1:32:48.680 like coking up kit cat. They love to take a 1:32:48.760 --> 1:32:51.960 basic idea and then just smear it out across a 1:32:52.000 --> 1:32:56.400 spectrum of possibilities that is quite limited, and so they 1:32:56.439 --> 1:33:00.599 love the notion of the multiverse. It's seen as I'm sure, 1:33:00.680 --> 1:33:03.680 quite a limited potential, but you can have you know, 1:33:03.760 --> 1:33:07.559 here's your red Supman's, your blue Man's, here's your here's 1:33:07.600 --> 1:33:11.160 your original cocapila, Here's They love versions of things to 1:33:11.880 --> 1:33:14.680 sell you the same rubbish over and over again. So 1:33:14.760 --> 1:33:18.760 I think the multiverse definitely appeals, but higher in a 1:33:18.880 --> 1:33:22.160 higher sense then that. I like the idea that the 1:33:22.200 --> 1:33:25.599 notion of the multiverse is becoming accepted because I always 1:33:25.600 --> 1:33:29.040 think when a concept starts to become accepted, the walls 1:33:29.080 --> 1:33:33.160 of reality becomes thin, and that concept maybe actually starts 1:33:33.200 --> 1:33:36.639 breaking through the possibilities for it being real, maybe start 1:33:36.680 --> 1:33:39.680 to be noticed. The next thing I think we'll hear is, 1:33:40.120 --> 1:33:43.559 you know, our telescopes have discovered a weird dark matter 1:33:43.640 --> 1:33:47.760 fluctuation that suggests the close by universe and that's all 1:33:47.760 --> 1:33:49.280 we can hope for. I think the fact that people 1:33:49.320 --> 1:33:52.000 are getting into it is something coming as a notion 1:33:52.080 --> 1:33:58.640 of this, this absolute fragmenting into all possibilities, which I 1:33:58.720 --> 1:34:01.760 think could be you know that my might break down 1:34:01.800 --> 1:34:05.920 a few categories when we expanded every possibility. 1:34:06.479 --> 1:34:10.080 I wanted to link back to something you mentioned earlier 1:34:10.280 --> 1:34:14.360 in the interview. You use the word hyper object to 1:34:14.439 --> 1:34:19.799 describe this kind of vast catalog of comics stories, both 1:34:20.640 --> 1:34:26.720 metaphysical and physical. Hyper Object is the word that was 1:34:26.760 --> 1:34:29.800 invented by the environmental philosopher Tim Morton to kind of 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:33.240 describe plastic Yeah, the process speak is. 1:34:33.240 --> 1:34:37.120 A hyper object. Where there is a hyper object, is 1:34:37.160 --> 1:34:38.479 a hyper object. Yeah. 1:34:38.479 --> 1:34:41.360 I want to if you could just unpack the idea 1:34:41.439 --> 1:34:44.400 of the hyper object and what what it means to you, 1:34:44.880 --> 1:34:46.760 uh visa e comics. 1:34:47.040 --> 1:34:50.000 The hyper object is it's it's an object of physical 1:34:50.000 --> 1:34:53.120 object that's so widely distributed it's hard to see it 1:34:53.120 --> 1:34:57.000 in its entirety. So we don't necessarily recognize the fact 1:34:57.040 --> 1:35:00.040 that it's a singular thing, right, you know, so I 1:35:00.360 --> 1:35:03.680 can actually the entirety of the of the history of 1:35:03.720 --> 1:35:06.360 life is that, you know, but we're talking In the 1:35:06.439 --> 1:35:09.880 terms of comics, the DC universe is a high probject 1:35:10.000 --> 1:35:15.200 is distributed across decades. It's been added to by multiple 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:19.040 voices and multiple generations, but it still holds its same 1:35:19.120 --> 1:35:21.439 basic shape. It's like a coral that keeps the same 1:35:21.520 --> 1:35:23.920 because there's only so much you can push it before 1:35:23.960 --> 1:35:28.439 it's the Marvel Universe or before it's it's Archie, you know. 1:35:28.640 --> 1:35:33.439 So it's a higher p object basically in that sense 1:35:33.479 --> 1:35:36.519 that I first described it as. It's distributed so widely 1:35:36.600 --> 1:35:38.639 that it's hard to see it as a singular thing. 1:35:39.240 --> 1:35:41.479 I could just talk about this kind of conceptual stuff 1:35:41.960 --> 1:35:48.519 all day. I'm like, okay, so how I just wonder 1:35:48.520 --> 1:35:49.320 how you feel like? 1:35:49.920 --> 1:35:51.640 I love the way that you. 1:35:51.400 --> 1:35:54.240 Talk about like interacting with comics and that comes through 1:35:54.280 --> 1:35:56.920 with your work in this kind of fictional space. How 1:35:56.960 --> 1:35:59.479 do you feel like, do you feel like that power 1:36:00.120 --> 1:36:03.840 of those conversations and the reality of comics still exists 1:36:04.160 --> 1:36:06.719 in the space where we have all these different movies 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:09.880 and and there's sort of that expands the idea of 1:36:10.200 --> 1:36:12.559 them as hyper objects, Like do you feel like even 1:36:12.560 --> 1:36:15.960 if there's a commodification and there's a there's a very 1:36:16.000 --> 1:36:17.720 corporate aspect to it. Do you feel like there's a 1:36:17.760 --> 1:36:22.120 way that it's actually expanding people's understanding or people's access 1:36:22.120 --> 1:36:24.000 to these kind of stories and thoughts. 1:36:24.800 --> 1:36:27.320 Yeah, absolutely, I think, And that's that's what we were 1:36:27.320 --> 1:36:29.760 saying earlier, you know, the sense that if you can 1:36:29.800 --> 1:36:33.320 sit to Avengers endgame, then you've been asked to consider 1:36:34.200 --> 1:36:37.200 like beings from another world and the center if all, 1:36:37.280 --> 1:36:40.760 you've been asked to consider the potential like crystals could 1:36:40.800 --> 1:36:47.040 somehow can you know, contain energy of a scale and 1:36:47.800 --> 1:36:51.240 substance that could all to the universe. People have been 1:36:51.280 --> 1:36:55.479 asked to accept really weird things, you know that rob 1:36:55.520 --> 1:36:59.000 but then the junior could actually survive the impact, And 1:36:59.040 --> 1:37:05.280 that's you know, it's so Yeah, as I say, I 1:37:05.280 --> 1:37:08.240 think the boundaries of imagination have been pushed much wider, 1:37:08.320 --> 1:37:11.240 and not just by by Marvel movies, but by by 1:37:11.600 --> 1:37:15.320 everything that people are consuming right across Netflix shows. And 1:37:15.360 --> 1:37:18.840 they know it's vampires, it's it's God, it's demons, monsters. 1:37:18.920 --> 1:37:22.479 It's that there's more demand for that. I mean, there's 1:37:22.479 --> 1:37:26.000 there's way less of anything, though there is a niche 1:37:26.000 --> 1:37:28.160 for it, it's way less event It's like say seventies 1:37:28.200 --> 1:37:31.519 oh two cinema. But there's a lot of stuff that 1:37:31.680 --> 1:37:34.160 was once the province of comics and of geeks and 1:37:34.200 --> 1:37:37.680 of of you know, of people arounto. Genre material is 1:37:37.880 --> 1:37:41.400 is way wider now, it's much more mainstream. So I 1:37:41.439 --> 1:37:47.639 do think that people's imaginative envelopes have been stretched, you know, 1:37:47.760 --> 1:37:50.479 but they're still there, are still fed at a limited 1:37:50.520 --> 1:37:53.040 diet of particular things. But it's it's way more than 1:37:53.520 --> 1:37:55.759 back in the day when people would have thought, what's 1:37:55.840 --> 1:37:57.800 it's a show but aliens, no way, I'm not watching 1:37:59.120 --> 1:38:02.360 it's about magic. It's about that's the people would't even 1:38:02.560 --> 1:38:04.880 have those conversations there. They would just watch it if 1:38:04.920 --> 1:38:06.559 it was cool, and it was you know, you could 1:38:06.600 --> 1:38:07.040 binge it. 1:38:08.720 --> 1:38:10.640 So much of the texture of your work and the 1:38:10.640 --> 1:38:14.200 way people respond to it is that kind of referential, 1:38:14.280 --> 1:38:20.920 predictive almost, this feeling of prophecy within the story of 1:38:20.960 --> 1:38:25.080 a world, you know, drawing these lines to a world 1:38:25.160 --> 1:38:28.519 that seems like it could exist sometime in the future, 1:38:28.520 --> 1:38:33.439 and oftentimes that seems dark or or somewhat twisted, or 1:38:33.680 --> 1:38:35.160 or almost dystopian. 1:38:35.760 --> 1:38:35.920 Uh. 1:38:35.960 --> 1:38:38.080 And then I think of your work of All Star Superman, 1:38:38.080 --> 1:38:41.120 which is so optimistic. What what do you what is 1:38:41.160 --> 1:38:49.120 Grant Morrison optimistic about in twenty twenty? Grant, we need 1:38:49.240 --> 1:38:50.200 something right now. 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:55.280 That's the one optimistic, not just honestly, you see people 1:38:55.360 --> 1:39:00.519 in the inhale, you know, almost TV are still still fighting, 1:39:00.560 --> 1:39:03.800 are still standing up for whatever they are standing up for. 1:39:03.920 --> 1:39:09.040 It's like some some power within is to resist tyranny 1:39:09.080 --> 1:39:13.880 and monstrosity. But that you know, it's it's it's hard 1:39:13.880 --> 1:39:16.240 to be optimistic. And the more optimisticy are, the more 1:39:16.240 --> 1:39:19.200 people throw things in your face to prove that you 1:39:19.200 --> 1:39:22.880 shouldn't be optimistic. So I'm very guarded about it. Honestly, 1:39:22.920 --> 1:39:26.559 I've always been optimistic, even living four miles from number 1:39:26.560 --> 1:39:30.200 one target should world go free break out? I just 1:39:31.080 --> 1:39:34.559 I don't. I don't know. It's like maybe it's just me. 1:39:34.720 --> 1:39:38.840 I don't know about what about what I don't know 1:39:38.880 --> 1:39:41.320 about the best in us triumphing, about the fact that 1:39:41.360 --> 1:39:43.679 we keep writing this story because we know it's true, 1:39:43.800 --> 1:39:45.840 And when are we going to just like play it out? 1:39:45.920 --> 1:39:48.120 Why we're writing what? We don't need to write that story? 1:39:48.160 --> 1:39:51.560 You and I know there's lots of other stories, but fundamentally, 1:39:51.760 --> 1:39:54.479 the other story is doning serve us very well moving forward. 1:39:55.160 --> 1:39:59.040 So was the forward momentum and the fact that so 1:39:59.600 --> 1:40:02.280 to me think that's the kind of duty of fiction. 1:40:02.439 --> 1:40:05.000 And it's where I kind of depart from people who 1:40:05.080 --> 1:40:07.760 think that fiction should show what life is like. You know, 1:40:07.880 --> 1:40:09.680 it's like it's kind of shit. You'll kind of be 1:40:09.800 --> 1:40:13.519 end up disillusioned. You know, comics will break your heart, kid, 1:40:13.920 --> 1:40:16.400 and all of that's true, But that's not the truth 1:40:16.439 --> 1:40:20.360 because even within that, I notice that we always, we 1:40:20.439 --> 1:40:22.759 always look for something to keep going, you know, we always, 1:40:22.760 --> 1:40:26.040 we always favor magic. Nihilism is beat out by magic 1:40:26.120 --> 1:40:29.080 because at the bottom we always find meaning. We even 1:40:29.120 --> 1:40:33.240 find meaning and nothingness. So our desire to find meaning 1:40:33.400 --> 1:40:37.479 continues to make it positive, if that makes sense. And 1:40:37.520 --> 1:40:40.040 we always no matter what you do to people, what 1:40:40.200 --> 1:40:43.559 you bring them down, and they'll look for meaning, They'll 1:40:43.680 --> 1:40:46.920 keep finding a reason to tell a story, they'll keep 1:40:46.920 --> 1:40:50.120 finding something in it. And I think that ultimately is 1:40:50.160 --> 1:40:52.559 like if we could just if we can just expand that, 1:40:52.720 --> 1:40:55.480 if we could hold onto that little flame that Promethean 1:40:55.560 --> 1:40:58.600 moment and expand that, like we can make meaning with us. 1:40:58.720 --> 1:41:01.040 Magic is just making meaning. It's just like why is 1:41:01.040 --> 1:41:03.360 it not other than why you know, why can't you 1:41:03.400 --> 1:41:05.080 do that? Why you try it out with it? Why 1:41:05.120 --> 1:41:08.120 they way that person five and kill them? You know 1:41:08.840 --> 1:41:12.519 anim will live? Why don't you? And it's that's all. 1:41:12.600 --> 1:41:14.600 I'll go off and the line you know, I'm just an, 1:41:15.120 --> 1:41:17.000 I'm just a person just thinking about it. 1:41:18.080 --> 1:41:21.920 Well, hopefully that's enough. Grant Morrison, thank you so much 1:41:22.000 --> 1:41:22.719 for joining us. 1:41:23.479 --> 1:41:25.760 No, thanks, that was gay as I enjoyed the conversation. 1:41:26.560 --> 1:41:29.519 That was wonderful. Thank you so much, thanks for joining us. 1:41:29.560 --> 1:41:43.599 Grant up next nerd Out and this week's nerd Out, 1:41:43.720 --> 1:41:46.280 a recurring segment where you tell us what you love 1:41:46.280 --> 1:41:51.400 and why. Sean pictures us on Final Fantasy for Free Enterprise. 1:41:51.800 --> 1:41:54.160 My name is Sean from Phoenix. My nerd out is 1:41:54.200 --> 1:41:57.200 an open world randomizer of a thirty year old video game, 1:41:57.520 --> 1:42:01.680 Final Fantasy for Free Enterprise. The original Final Fantasy four, 1:42:01.800 --> 1:42:04.880 released as Final Fantasy III on the Supernintendo in the US, 1:42:05.320 --> 1:42:08.559 was my introduction to JRPG's I was fascinated with the 1:42:08.560 --> 1:42:11.000 game as a kid, A high fantasy story of a 1:42:11.080 --> 1:42:13.320 dark knight trying to save the world and discover the 1:42:13.320 --> 1:42:17.520 hero within himself. The original game story was wild and emotional, 1:42:17.600 --> 1:42:20.639 but it's pretty linear. Members come and go it's at times, 1:42:20.920 --> 1:42:23.599 and he bounce from one mission to another. The story 1:42:23.640 --> 1:42:26.760 is about as straightforward as you can get when your 1:42:26.800 --> 1:42:29.600 story involves a giant robot and flying a whale to 1:42:29.640 --> 1:42:33.519 the moon. That's where Final Fantasy Iour Free Enterprise comes in. 1:42:34.120 --> 1:42:36.519 You start with the Airship Enterprise, which opens up the 1:42:36.680 --> 1:42:40.840 entire world. Bosses, key items, treasures, and quests are randomized, 1:42:41.120 --> 1:42:43.800 allowing for millions of options. You can hunt for the 1:42:43.840 --> 1:42:46.800 crystal you need to defeat the final boss Aromas, or 1:42:46.840 --> 1:42:49.400 you can set yourself to earn it through completing objectives. 1:42:50.040 --> 1:42:52.080 Along the way, you get to revisit the characters that 1:42:52.160 --> 1:42:54.479 made the game so compelling in the first place. The 1:42:54.600 --> 1:42:57.000 dark knight Cecil who knows that he must save himself 1:42:57.040 --> 1:43:00.439 to save the world, the spoony Barred Edward, the Twin 1:43:00.520 --> 1:43:03.960 Magic users, palam and Porum, and so many more. Free 1:43:04.040 --> 1:43:07.160 Enterprise makes quality of life improvements like the ability to 1:43:07.160 --> 1:43:11.000 toggle random encounters, but the charming sprites and art, the 1:43:11.040 --> 1:43:15.680 Spirit and Heart, and the Killer Yuimatsu's soundtrack remain. I 1:43:15.720 --> 1:43:18.200 came from the nostalgia, but I stay for the endless 1:43:18.240 --> 1:43:22.840 customization and replayability. Anytime is a great time to roll 1:43:22.840 --> 1:43:25.439 yourself a seed and give it a try. But now 1:43:25.439 --> 1:43:28.320 as a perfect time to join the community. The spring 1:43:28.360 --> 1:43:31.160 speed racing tournament, the adam And Cup, runs from early 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:34.719 March through May. Races are broadcast on Twitch dot tv 1:43:34.800 --> 1:43:38.559 slash free Enterprise. All the information needed to get started 1:43:38.760 --> 1:43:40.960 and to join one of the most inclusive communities on 1:43:41.000 --> 1:43:44.519 the Internet is at f F four f E dot com. 1:43:44.800 --> 1:43:48.799 Thanks Jason, Thanks x ray Vision, and remember wish everyone. 1:43:49.200 --> 1:43:51.599 Thanks for submitting Sean. If you want to be featured, 1:43:51.920 --> 1:43:53.639 send your nerd out pitch to x ray at crooked 1:43:53.720 --> 1:43:56.080 dot com instructions or in the show notes up next 1:43:56.080 --> 1:44:06.160 to the Endgame. Folks were in the end Game. Now 1:44:06.160 --> 1:44:09.840 and today we are ranking our top three video game 1:44:10.120 --> 1:44:15.439 adaptations and why we love them. Rosie, are you ready? 1:44:16.160 --> 1:44:17.439 I'm definitely ready. 1:44:17.600 --> 1:44:18.639 Okay, you want to go first? 1:44:18.840 --> 1:44:21.799 Yes? My first pick is ye. Most people have probably 1:44:21.920 --> 1:44:23.880 never seen this movie, but you should go and watch 1:44:23.920 --> 1:44:27.639 it streaming on every free streaming service. It is Double Dragon. 1:44:28.600 --> 1:44:31.200 I love Dragon video game. I loved Double dragonar movie. 1:44:31.320 --> 1:44:34.679 Yes, oky but fun, one of the best, most fun 1:44:34.680 --> 1:44:38.800 and accessible video games that also spawned like every great 1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:41.920 video game like that, Like there are so many brilliant 1:44:42.160 --> 1:44:44.760 walk along, beat them Ups, and I love them. But yeah, 1:44:44.880 --> 1:44:47.880 the movie is so good. It stars Mark Dekaskos, who 1:44:47.960 --> 1:44:50.120 I love and will literally watch in any movie. He's 1:44:50.160 --> 1:44:53.360 also in the incredible Crying Freeman adaptation, which is a 1:44:53.400 --> 1:44:58.320 great manga adaptation. Alyssa Milano is in it. Scott Wolf 1:44:58.560 --> 1:45:03.280 is the is the brother of in hilarious fashion, and 1:45:03.320 --> 1:45:06.679 it's like it's one of the funnest things because now 1:45:06.680 --> 1:45:09.160 it's twenty twenty two, but the movie's from the nineties 1:45:09.160 --> 1:45:11.000 and it's set in two thousand and seven when. 1:45:10.880 --> 1:45:14.840 Like an earthquake has destroyed Los Angeles and everyone's like 1:45:14.880 --> 1:45:19.879 a post apocalyptic punk and Alisa Milano has the sickest 1:45:19.920 --> 1:45:21.959 look she's maybe ever had in her whole. 1:45:21.720 --> 1:45:24.960 Career, and it is just like it's so hokey, but 1:45:25.080 --> 1:45:28.200 I this nineties era of video games, I actually love. 1:45:28.560 --> 1:45:33.000 It's so much fun. They weren't afraid to do weird stuff. 1:45:33.120 --> 1:45:36.120 This has like, this has cool. This, this does what 1:45:36.160 --> 1:45:38.960 the Street Fighter movie doesn't, which is this actually like 1:45:39.080 --> 1:45:41.320 leans into the supernatural of it all, which I think 1:45:41.400 --> 1:45:45.360 is really really fun. And yeah, this is just this 1:45:45.479 --> 1:45:48.479 is like a great movie. Also, apparently the story was 1:45:48.479 --> 1:45:51.439 by Paul Deani, which is just why I know, like 1:45:51.800 --> 1:45:55.960 unexpected Paul Dany Batman Animated series creator like one of 1:45:56.040 --> 1:45:57.840 our favors. We talked about him a lot. So yeah, 1:45:57.880 --> 1:46:01.040 it's just it's this is a bunch of fun. This 1:46:01.160 --> 1:46:02.519 is like one of those things where I'm like, just 1:46:02.520 --> 1:46:04.240 go and watch it and you will have fun. If 1:46:04.280 --> 1:46:06.439 you think it sucks and it's badly made, you will 1:46:06.439 --> 1:46:08.680 still have fun watching it, but you might find it's 1:46:08.760 --> 1:46:10.639 like a it's like a solid B movie. 1:46:10.760 --> 1:46:15.920 Gem M I like it. My first pick will be Injustice, 1:46:15.680 --> 1:46:22.439 the comic series and the animated comic movie streaming now 1:46:22.439 --> 1:46:26.400 in HBO Max, which is an adaptation of the hit 1:46:26.520 --> 1:46:29.240 video game of the same name, YEP, which is a 1:46:29.320 --> 1:46:33.759 beat him up, fight him up video game based around 1:46:33.960 --> 1:46:38.439 the idea that Superman just flips out because he's been 1:46:39.000 --> 1:46:45.759 spoiler alert tricked into killing Slain and he goes nuts 1:46:46.000 --> 1:46:50.240 and the heroes of Earth kind of like split along 1:46:50.439 --> 1:46:53.720 certain lines and they have to stop them. It's for 1:46:54.560 --> 1:46:57.400 a comic adapted from a video game. 1:46:57.600 --> 1:47:00.000 Unbelievably good. Like everyone, it's good. 1:47:00.400 --> 1:47:03.400 It's like it shouldn't be good, but that ran. 1:47:03.600 --> 1:47:06.160 Like shout out to Tom Taylor, who was the writer 1:47:06.200 --> 1:47:09.400 who has given that unenviable task and suddenly made that 1:47:09.439 --> 1:47:13.000 one of the biggest comics in the world. Like the 1:47:13.080 --> 1:47:16.880 depth that the adaptation the video game is great. I 1:47:16.960 --> 1:47:20.240 love Nether Realm. I love Mortal Kombat, so I love 1:47:20.280 --> 1:47:23.080 the the fighting styles that they use to Injustice, and 1:47:23.120 --> 1:47:26.519 I love the evil characters. But like to then turn 1:47:26.640 --> 1:47:30.920 that into a legitimately engaging, deep story and not just 1:47:30.960 --> 1:47:33.599 adapt it to comics, but also adapt it to a movie, 1:47:34.560 --> 1:47:35.719 an animated movie. 1:47:35.520 --> 1:47:36.759 That's just that's powerful. 1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:38.120 What is your next? 1:47:38.240 --> 1:47:40.120 Okay, So my next one I actually so I'm going 1:47:40.200 --> 1:47:42.360 to stick all I'm going to go all nineties just 1:47:42.400 --> 1:47:45.280 for it, because otherwise it's hard for me because I 1:47:45.320 --> 1:47:48.400 actually like a lot of a lot of video game adaptations, 1:47:48.439 --> 1:47:50.320 even though I would argue there hasn't been like a 1:47:50.400 --> 1:47:54.800 truly magnificent like five Star. I agree with you, but 1:47:54.920 --> 1:47:56.479 I actually love a lot of them. So my next 1:47:56.479 --> 1:47:59.400 one is going to be Street Fighter. I This one 1:47:59.439 --> 1:48:04.479 goes above Double Dragon, only slightly. Also nineteen ninety four, 1:48:04.520 --> 1:48:08.040 directed by Stephen Desuza. I really love this movie. I 1:48:08.080 --> 1:48:13.799 rewatch it all the time. It's so funny, it's really silly. 1:48:13.920 --> 1:48:17.400 It doesn't lean enough into the supernatural. I think there's 1:48:17.479 --> 1:48:20.559 a it's you know, Jean claud van Dam for some 1:48:20.720 --> 1:48:23.720 the they always do this with this, the characters they 1:48:23.800 --> 1:48:25.720 choose to be the main characters. You're like, why would 1:48:25.760 --> 1:48:28.400 you do this? Like Kenna Layu first of all, the 1:48:28.400 --> 1:48:30.120 guy they cast as Ken, that is like one of 1:48:30.120 --> 1:48:33.200 my most annoying I'm still annoyed about that casting, you know, 1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:36.720 twenty years later. But like Ken and Ryu are comedy, 1:48:36.880 --> 1:48:39.439 they're comedy relief. In this movie, it makes no sense, 1:48:39.600 --> 1:48:43.080 like why would Nothing about it makes any sense, but 1:48:43.120 --> 1:48:47.000 it is like so fun raw. Julia plays m Bison 1:48:47.120 --> 1:48:50.920 and he is just unbelievable, and he he choose up 1:48:50.960 --> 1:48:53.320 all the scenery and he did the movie because people 1:48:53.360 --> 1:48:54.800 were like, why would you do this movie? It was 1:48:54.840 --> 1:48:56.679 so trash, and he did it because his kids loved 1:48:56.680 --> 1:48:58.800 Street Fighter and he wanted to do something his kids 1:48:58.840 --> 1:49:02.679 would love. And he has this like on real line 1:49:03.600 --> 1:49:06.799 where she says to him like it's him and Chanley 1:49:06.880 --> 1:49:09.759 and and she says she's asking him if he remembers 1:49:09.760 --> 1:49:12.439 when he killed her family, and he's like, you know, God, 1:49:12.560 --> 1:49:15.360 the day I graced your village was you know that 1:49:15.520 --> 1:49:17.360 was the most important day of your life. But to 1:49:17.400 --> 1:49:20.799 me it was just a Thursday or something. Jesus, it's 1:49:20.880 --> 1:49:24.599 so good and it's so fun, and you know Kylie 1:49:24.600 --> 1:49:27.840 Minoga's in it. Also there's like a there's a yeah, 1:49:28.000 --> 1:49:30.120 Kylie Minoga's in it, as Cammie I think. 1:49:30.200 --> 1:49:33.000 So it is like, what was It's been such a 1:49:33.040 --> 1:49:35.360 long time as I've seen the when I forgot what 1:49:35.680 --> 1:49:39.320 was the excuse for this split? The John Claude van 1:49:39.400 --> 1:49:41.840 dam split in this When when did he do the split? 1:49:42.040 --> 1:49:44.519 Oh? I mean it happens more than once. And also 1:49:44.560 --> 1:49:49.519 there's there's like a really famous and hilarious interview that's 1:49:49.560 --> 1:49:52.719 been doing the rounds recently with Oh yeah, and mengnaw 1:49:52.760 --> 1:49:56.559 Wehm plays Chanli, which is like unbelievable casting. Oh yeah, 1:49:56.560 --> 1:49:58.720 it's Damian Chapa who plays Ken, Like why did they 1:49:58.720 --> 1:50:04.240 do that? But Byron Man plays He's wonderful. But there's 1:50:04.280 --> 1:50:06.439 a really famous interview that's going around at the moment 1:50:06.560 --> 1:50:09.280 virally again with Stephen Desusa, the director, where he talks 1:50:09.280 --> 1:50:12.040 about how like Jean Claude was just like coke out 1:50:12.040 --> 1:50:14.439 of his mind the whole time, and when you watch 1:50:14.520 --> 1:50:17.760 the movie, like you can see it and one of 1:50:17.760 --> 1:50:20.120 my favorites. This movie is not in my top three, 1:50:20.320 --> 1:50:22.720 right the Street Fighter is, but Street Fighter Legend of 1:50:22.800 --> 1:50:26.080 chan Lee is not. But I will say that movie 1:50:26.200 --> 1:50:29.400 has an unbelievable bathroom fight scene and a very famous 1:50:29.439 --> 1:50:33.080 cocaine fueled performance by Chris Klein, so it continues the legend. 1:50:33.280 --> 1:50:36.040 But yeah, Street Fighter nineteen ninety four another movie that 1:50:36.040 --> 1:50:36.640 you'll have a lot of. 1:50:36.680 --> 1:50:38.920 I love it. I am going to pick for my 1:50:39.040 --> 1:50:45.880 second pick a recent release Arcane, Netflix's Arcane, which is 1:50:46.240 --> 1:50:49.559 the adaptation of Lore from Legal Legend. Now, this is 1:50:49.600 --> 1:50:53.519 very interesting in the sense that I've never played Legal Legends. Yep, 1:50:53.640 --> 1:50:57.679 I don't know the law at all. I don't usually 1:50:58.240 --> 1:51:01.120 like the move in a video game adaptation, right is 1:51:01.120 --> 1:51:04.639 they always give you that scene that is a wink 1:51:05.160 --> 1:51:08.320 at like the way the game is. So for instance, 1:51:08.680 --> 1:51:12.479 in the episode one of Halo, when Master Chief touches 1:51:12.520 --> 1:51:16.280 down on Madrigal and starts slogging away against the Covenant, 1:51:16.520 --> 1:51:18.880 there's a moment where like you go into his visor 1:51:18.920 --> 1:51:21.200 and you see the first person view of him aimings 1:51:21.200 --> 1:51:24.799 gun the whole thing, And if that happens in Arcane, 1:51:24.920 --> 1:51:27.479 I have no idea. I don't know. I just know 1:51:27.520 --> 1:51:29.120 that it was great and I really enjoyed it. I 1:51:29.160 --> 1:51:31.400 thought the art was amazing, the characters were really great. 1:51:33.080 --> 1:51:35.960 I just really really liked it. It looked almost too 1:51:36.080 --> 1:51:37.400 real at times like that. 1:51:37.760 --> 1:51:39.599 That's a show that I think, not only is it 1:51:39.600 --> 1:51:41.880 like a stunning show, I've never played League of Legends either, 1:51:41.880 --> 1:51:44.880 and it's but it's like the rare adaptation. This is 1:51:44.920 --> 1:51:47.000 probably actually one of those five star if we're talking 1:51:47.040 --> 1:51:51.000 about a video game adaptation, like it not only pushes 1:51:52.200 --> 1:51:54.559 the boundaries of what a video game adaptation can be, 1:51:54.600 --> 1:51:57.200 but also the format of animation. Like you said, like 1:51:57.240 --> 1:51:59.040 when you're watching it, you spend so much of the 1:51:59.040 --> 1:52:01.120 time going how did they do that? Is it rod 1:52:01.160 --> 1:52:03.880 to scope? Is it two D? Is it CG? They 1:52:03.960 --> 1:52:06.360 use so many formats, it feels like it feels a 1:52:06.400 --> 1:52:08.120 bit like the first time you see spider Us. 1:52:08.280 --> 1:52:11.080 Completely agree, it's like that there's like this hard almost 1:52:11.120 --> 1:52:14.280 like hard edged like cell shading kind. 1:52:14.200 --> 1:52:18.040 Of look different line weights, and yeah, it's. 1:52:17.920 --> 1:52:20.080 Like it's just really really cool. I love it. What's 1:52:20.080 --> 1:52:20.599 your next pick? 1:52:20.680 --> 1:52:23.280 Well, I'm absolutely really happy that you went for like 1:52:23.400 --> 1:52:25.760 legit quality ones because I'm really going for that this 1:52:25.840 --> 1:52:29.240 is the triple bill of nineties classics. So my first 1:52:29.240 --> 1:52:32.880 one and I do legitimately love this movie is Mortal Kombat, 1:52:32.880 --> 1:52:36.439 which came out in nineteen ninety five, directed by Paul Anderson, 1:52:36.479 --> 1:52:38.360 who would obviously go on to do Paul W. S. 1:52:38.439 --> 1:52:40.400 Anderson would obviously go on to do like a lot 1:52:40.439 --> 1:52:43.439 of video game adaptations, but this is my favorite. I 1:52:43.479 --> 1:52:45.960 love this Mortal Kombat movie. It's campy as hell. 1:52:46.600 --> 1:52:47.200 It's so gay. 1:52:47.320 --> 1:52:51.439 It is like so enjoyable, and I think that like 1:52:51.560 --> 1:52:54.640 Robin Show as Lou Kang is like one of the 1:52:54.680 --> 1:52:57.439 all time best castings see and the martial arts are 1:52:57.439 --> 1:53:00.800 actually really good. It doesn't it doesn't do well. It's 1:53:00.800 --> 1:53:03.479 a PG, you know, PG thirteen, Isn't that always the way? 1:53:03.560 --> 1:53:06.960 So you don't get that brutal bloodiness of the video games, 1:53:07.000 --> 1:53:09.720 which Mortal Kombat is probably my favorite video game of 1:53:09.720 --> 1:53:13.360 all time. So, but there's just something about this movie 1:53:13.400 --> 1:53:16.880 that I love. This soundtrack is full of unbelievable bangers, 1:53:16.920 --> 1:53:20.719 Like it's so good, and it has every great character 1:53:20.960 --> 1:53:24.080 you know, it has oh yeah, carry hiroy Key Togawa 1:53:24.120 --> 1:53:27.760 as a shangsung and that's such popular casting that they 1:53:27.800 --> 1:53:29.880 actually bought him back for one of the video games 1:53:29.960 --> 1:53:34.320 recently because it was like so iconic Annah. And I also, 1:53:34.640 --> 1:53:37.360 I would say I also did enjoy I think this 1:53:37.439 --> 1:53:38.960 is this was on Netflix, but I think it's on 1:53:39.040 --> 1:53:41.240 HBO Max now. And I did enjoy the new Mortal 1:53:41.280 --> 1:53:43.400 Kombat if you want a more R rated one. Also 1:53:43.560 --> 1:53:47.559 another great lu Can casting there. And yeah, I just 1:53:47.640 --> 1:53:50.160 I love Mortal Kombat. And this movie is like probably 1:53:50.160 --> 1:53:52.360 one of my most rewatched movies because it's just so 1:53:52.479 --> 1:53:52.960 much fun. 1:53:53.040 --> 1:53:54.080 What's your number one? 1:53:54.800 --> 1:53:58.200 Oh god, So this is a cheat and I don't care. 1:53:58.360 --> 1:54:01.920 I'm gonna do it. And with a caveat of this 1:54:01.960 --> 1:54:03.760 movie came out in nineteen eighty four, so it might 1:54:03.800 --> 1:54:06.040 be problematic now, and I haven't seen it since I 1:54:06.120 --> 1:54:08.200 was for a long time. I've seen it since I 1:54:08.320 --> 1:54:09.800 was a kid. But as a kid, I loved it. 1:54:09.840 --> 1:54:15.639 So if it's problematic now, apologies, all apologies. The Last 1:54:15.680 --> 1:54:17.960 Starfighter from nineteen eighty four. Now here's the thing about 1:54:17.960 --> 1:54:20.320 The Last Starfighter. It's not really a video game adaptation. 1:54:20.439 --> 1:54:23.200 It's a it's a story about a kid. It's a 1:54:23.280 --> 1:54:29.400 story about an alien, a genocidal alien war where the 1:54:29.560 --> 1:54:35.080 very very very hail Mary last option of this dying 1:54:35.680 --> 1:54:38.760 up against the wall alien civilization that's about to be 1:54:38.840 --> 1:54:43.080 wiped out is to create a video game and send 1:54:43.120 --> 1:54:47.160 it to I guess like all the inhabited planets of 1:54:47.480 --> 1:54:51.800 the galaxy, but in particular Earth, and that video game 1:54:51.880 --> 1:54:57.880 will like search for talented fighter pilots and if they 1:54:58.040 --> 1:55:01.160 are good enough, if they beat the game, that means 1:55:01.160 --> 1:55:04.240 they are skilled enough, and they will then be picked 1:55:04.320 --> 1:55:08.320 up by a Starfighter like this unique, very very last 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:11.440 high tech, super top secret Starfighter the last hope of 1:55:11.480 --> 1:55:16.480 this alien civilization to defeat the enemies. And it was 1:55:16.680 --> 1:55:19.440 it was like it's super fun, like you know, as 1:55:19.480 --> 1:55:22.520 a kid, it was like any kind of story that 1:55:22.680 --> 1:55:25.520 was like actually, like if you get good enough at 1:55:25.560 --> 1:55:29.680 video games, it's actually really good, Like it's actually beneficial. 1:55:29.080 --> 1:55:29.600 For your life. 1:55:31.360 --> 1:55:33.840 How about if you save not even just your world, 1:55:33.880 --> 1:55:37.360 but the galaxy other planets. I was like, I'm all 1:55:37.360 --> 1:55:41.800 the way in, so the Last Starfighter, I'm I'm I 1:55:41.840 --> 1:55:44.120 thought about The Last Starfighter like a couple of weeks 1:55:44.120 --> 1:55:47.040 ago because it seemed like one of those properties that 1:55:47.080 --> 1:55:49.640 I'm like, oh, they haven't rebooted this yet, Like they 1:55:49.640 --> 1:55:52.760 haven't figured out a way to make this ten episodes 1:55:52.800 --> 1:55:55.080 of a TV show, or they haven't figured out how 1:55:55.120 --> 1:55:57.040 to just like make the movie again and release it 1:55:57.080 --> 1:56:00.520 on Disney Plus. Wow, I'm really surprised at that. So 1:56:00.720 --> 1:56:03.600 the Last Starfighter, I don't know if it's problematic again, 1:56:03.640 --> 1:56:05.200 it came out in nineteen eighty four. It might be, 1:56:05.760 --> 1:56:08.480 and I'm sorry, but the Last Starfighter that's gonna be 1:56:08.480 --> 1:56:09.600 it because I just loved it. 1:56:09.800 --> 1:56:11.640 Okay, I'm gonna do I. I want to do a 1:56:11.640 --> 1:56:14.120 special mention then, because my other one, if we were 1:56:14.160 --> 1:56:17.280 doing it like movies, it would be Tron. That's like, 1:56:17.480 --> 1:56:20.840 I love the original Tron. That was such a revolutionary 1:56:20.880 --> 1:56:23.520 movie for me. So shout out to Tron. Love that 1:56:23.560 --> 1:56:24.480 weird old movie. 1:56:24.760 --> 1:56:26.920 That's it for the Endgame. Let us know what you 1:56:26.960 --> 1:56:29.600 think and use hashtag xrvia Endgame to give us your pick. 1:56:31.360 --> 1:56:35.520 Huge thanks to Grant Morrison, Rosie, thanks again for joining us. 1:56:35.560 --> 1:56:38.920 It's been a delight anything to plug plug it again, 1:56:39.040 --> 1:56:40.280 plug the comic book again. 1:56:40.440 --> 1:56:43.360 Yes, I am writing a Godzilla comic with Oliver oh No, 1:56:43.440 --> 1:56:46.240 the incredible artist who is doing the inks and the 1:56:46.280 --> 1:56:49.040 colors and the pencils and everything. I'm sure the letter 1:56:49.160 --> 1:56:51.440 will also be amazing and I will shout them out 1:56:51.440 --> 1:56:52.440 when I find out their name. 1:56:53.120 --> 1:56:55.560 That is my plug. You can find me Rosie Marks 1:56:55.640 --> 1:56:58.840 on Instagram. Also on letterbox where you can see all 1:56:58.840 --> 1:57:01.160 the bad movies that I I watched a lot of 1:57:01.240 --> 1:57:02.080 bad movies in. 1:57:02.040 --> 1:57:05.360 The hotel at Austin. So that was, Oh my god. 1:57:05.960 --> 1:57:09.120 They wish they showed die Hard or No Live Free 1:57:09.200 --> 1:57:11.200 or die Hard. They showed it like five times into 1:57:13.240 --> 1:57:15.280 and that was actually quite fun. And justin Long and 1:57:15.320 --> 1:57:17.720 Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who I love, who's also in another 1:57:17.760 --> 1:57:21.240 great video game, non video game movie, Scott Pilgrim. I 1:57:21.320 --> 1:57:23.520 also watched that Peter. 1:57:23.440 --> 1:57:26.040 Jackson King Kong movie on the morning when I was packing, 1:57:26.120 --> 1:57:29.520 and that is a wild movie. 1:57:30.840 --> 1:57:32.720 That's very problematic, and it's from. 1:57:32.560 --> 1:57:35.080 Like the Zai opening. Let me just say the opening 1:57:35.120 --> 1:57:37.360 of that movie. You're like, can we do this? 1:57:37.680 --> 1:57:40.480 Like is this okay? It happens a lot in that movie. 1:57:40.520 --> 1:57:43.080 I was like, wow, I'm I'm like, I'm surprised they 1:57:43.120 --> 1:57:44.960 haven't edited this show yet, but. 1:57:45.400 --> 1:57:46.840 Like, is this okay? 1:57:46.920 --> 1:57:49.640 Yeah, it's that is wild, But Adrian Brody give him 1:57:49.640 --> 1:57:51.960 some more romantic leads. The other thing I will plug. 1:57:52.000 --> 1:57:55.760 It's not me, but it is our co host, superstar 1:57:56.000 --> 1:57:59.440 Cody Ziggler. He has a new comic coming out, Spider 1:57:59.480 --> 1:58:03.040 Punk Number by Cody Zikla. It's out April six. That's amazing. 1:58:03.080 --> 1:58:05.760 He teams up with this brilliant es called Justin Mason, 1:58:05.840 --> 1:58:10.520 this unbelievable colorist Jim Chara Lampitas who is just adds 1:58:10.520 --> 1:58:13.280 so much vibrancy, and Travis Lanham is the latter and 1:58:13.360 --> 1:58:17.000 those las like that's probably the best use of lettering 1:58:17.040 --> 1:58:18.600 I've seen in a comaic for a long time. So 1:58:18.760 --> 1:58:22.960 just good, good stuff. That's gonna be a big one. 1:58:24.640 --> 1:58:26.840 Well, folks. If you want to learn more about what 1:58:26.840 --> 1:58:28.800 we explore in each episode, check out our listeners guide 1:58:28.800 --> 1:58:30.560 to all things x Revision in the show notes or 1:58:30.600 --> 1:58:34.520 on our website. Catch the next episode not this is 1:58:34.640 --> 1:58:37.640 Legit No April Fools on April first, and again send 1:58:37.680 --> 1:58:40.560 your nerd out submissions to x ray atcrookad dot com. 1:58:40.800 --> 1:58:43.880 Also check out our videos on the own Cultured YouTube channel. 1:58:43.960 --> 1:58:48.000 Last week, Rosie did a really, really unbelievable and incredible 1:58:48.040 --> 1:58:50.520 and well worth your time video on the impact of 1:58:50.560 --> 1:58:53.400 Glynn Barley and Richmond Lewis to women that helped create 1:58:53.440 --> 1:58:56.640 a unique visual style of Batman in the Dark Knight 1:58:56.640 --> 1:59:00.640 Returns and Batman You're One and Don't Forget Star ratings 1:59:00.640 --> 1:59:03.120 wherever you get your podcast, rate us with the five 1:59:03.200 --> 1:59:07.720 star ratings on Apple Podcasts on wherever it is. X 1:59:07.840 --> 1:59:09.800 ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is 1:59:09.840 --> 1:59:12.840 produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. It is executive 1:59:12.880 --> 1:59:16.640 produced by myself and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Ruston and Carlton 1:59:16.640 --> 1:59:19.480 Gillespie are our consulting producers, and our editing and sound 1:59:19.480 --> 1:59:23.040 design is by Vasili's Photopoulos. Thank you to Brian Basquez 1:59:23.040 --> 1:59:25.000 for our theme music. See you next time.