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Speaker 1: Warning. This podcast contains spoilers for the first episode of

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Speaker 1: the new Halo series on Paramount Plus. Elden Ring kind

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Speaker 1: of not really Shadow of the Colossus, which is a

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Speaker 1: game that is almost twenty years old now but is

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Speaker 1: well worth your time if you can play it Injustice

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Speaker 1: and possibly more video games. You have been warned.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jasoncepcio and welcome to x ray Vision,

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Speaker 1: The Crooked Podcast, where we dot d bien to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. On today's action

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Speaker 1: packed episode in the Airlock, we will recap the first

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Speaker 1: episode of Paramount Plus's adaptation of the Halo video game

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Speaker 1: series Halo, and discuss which video games we're currently playing.

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Speaker 1: I'm playing only one and it's taken over my life

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Speaker 1: and I need help help me. Continuing our coverage of

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Speaker 1: the Batman, we're joined in the Hive Mind by the

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Speaker 1: legendary comics writer Grant Morrison discuss their iconic career in

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Speaker 1: nerd Out, a audience member tells us about Final Fantasy

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Speaker 1: for Free Enterprise, and in the endgame, we rank our

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Speaker 1: top three video game adaptations to do all of that.

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Speaker 1: Joining us today is writer Comics Encyclopedia, brilliant creator, Rosie Night, Rosie,

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Speaker 1: how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm good?

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing well? What's what's going on? What's happening? What's

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Speaker 1: happening with you? What's happening with the Well, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about it. We've been teasing it. Oh, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: it here. We've been teasing it. But let's talk about

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Speaker 1: your comics project, which you can now safely announce. I

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Speaker 1: can now love it if you'd denounce it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So if you've read any of my stuff we've

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Speaker 3: had me on the show, you'll know that I love Godzilla.

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Speaker 3: Godzilla's weell my absolute favorite things. And me and this

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Speaker 3: absolutely brilliant artist called Oliver Ono, who you might actually

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Speaker 3: already follow on Instagram because he's very popular, we are

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Speaker 3: doing a Godzilla comic and it is called Godzilla Rivals

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Speaker 3: two Versus Bachra, which is a very long name, but

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Speaker 3: it's a really cool mash up comic. We're allowed to

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Speaker 3: announce it now. They're finishing up final work on the

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Speaker 3: cover and it is a forty page one shot and

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 4: Really really cool.

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Speaker 3: It's set in the British seaside. Because I'm from London,

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Speaker 3: and that was somewhere that Oliver actually spent a lot

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Speaker 3: of time as a kid too, So we're just really

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Speaker 3: excited about it. It's basically like Studio Ghibli meets Godzilla

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Speaker 3: with a lot of Kaiju fighting action.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and not available when.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So it looks like if you read comics or

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Speaker 3: you have started a pull list because of us, you

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Speaker 3: will know that comics are listed many months before they

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Speaker 3: come out, so it should be around July, the beginning

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Speaker 3: ish of July, we hope. And as soon as it

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Speaker 3: is really available and we have a link where you

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Speaker 3: can order it and stuff, I'll make sure that we

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Speaker 3: put it in the show notes and people can have

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Speaker 3: a look, and hopefully we'll talk about it more because

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Speaker 3: all of us are is like, so incredible and definitely

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Speaker 3: just go follow him on Instagram Oliver oh No, And

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Speaker 3: it's just so exciting and I'm really happy that this

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Speaker 3: is the first place I've gotten to talk about it,

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Speaker 3: So thank you for asking.

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Speaker 1: Well, that is fantastic, and we're gonna have to have

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Speaker 1: y'all on to discuss your work. Now, let us step

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Speaker 1: into and out of the air lock to discuss Halo

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Speaker 1: oh Bomb bumba bumba Halo. Okay, folks, Paramount Plus's adaptation

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Speaker 1: of Halo. It's been long for man. I remember Rosie

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Speaker 1: back in like Halo three days. Halo three had an

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Speaker 1: absolutely incredible promotional campaign that was like these really grounded

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Speaker 1: action vignettes of Master Chief in his apocalyptic war against

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Speaker 1: the Covenant alien races and it was really really cool.

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Speaker 1: And it was around that time that people were like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: Halo movie, It's gonna happen. Who will it be? Will

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Speaker 1: it be Spielberg? Will it be Neil Blong, Camp of

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Speaker 1: District nine? Who will be? And this has been We've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for it, waiting for it, waiting for it.

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Speaker 1: I had forgotten about it. I stopped playing Halo. I

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Speaker 1: started playing Halo again. I stopped again, and then I

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Speaker 1: started again. And now here we are. The year is

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and the Halo television series has now

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Speaker 1: aired on Paramount Plus. We'll have it aired by the

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Speaker 1: time you were listening to this, and we are going

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Speaker 1: to recap now. Episode one of the Halo series, title Contact,

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Speaker 1: written by Stephen Kine and Kyle Killen. The year is

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Speaker 1: twenty five fifty two and first of all, congrats to

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Speaker 1: the human race for making it that far. I didn't

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Speaker 1: think it wasn't I didn't think you were going to

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Speaker 1: get there. To be honest with you, sitting here in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, I'm not one hundred percent convinced that

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Speaker 1: you're going to get there. But in this fictional world,

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Speaker 1: you got there, and I'm kind of proud of you,

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Speaker 1: even though you still be colonizing. But that's okay, okay.

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Speaker 3: Human nature. And that's why they call it science fiction. Baby,

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Speaker 3: it's fictional.

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Speaker 1: The year is twenty five to fifty two. We are

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Speaker 1: on the planet Magical, which is part of Unified Earth

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Speaker 1: Government territory. It is a colony. Human colonists went out

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Speaker 1: into various far flung planets of the galaxy where they

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Speaker 1: would then mine for resources or what have you, and

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Speaker 1: they would send that back to the central Earth government.

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Speaker 1: And over time the colonists have been like, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: being exploited by you, so Earth Government, and that is

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Speaker 1: the state of affairs today. Magical is a planet rich

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Speaker 1: and exploitable resources, populated by a diverse body of very

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Speaker 1: restive human colonists. The ueg's relationship with its outer colonies

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Speaker 1: is very bad for anyone who read the first Halo

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Speaker 1: novelizations by Eric Nyland, you'll understand where we're coming from

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Speaker 1: with that. When the colonies act up, when they insurrect,

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Speaker 1: when they rebel against the UEG, the UEG sends in

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Speaker 1: the space Marines, the UNSC United Nations Security something something

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Speaker 1: I forgot what it was. Marines end the newly kind

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Speaker 1: of newly created elite force of specially trained and equipped

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Speaker 1: warriors known as the Spartans. They are widely feared throughout

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Speaker 1: the colonies, and they are a subject of much propaganda

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Speaker 1: by the UEG. So Kwan Hall is a colonist. She

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Speaker 1: and her friends are exploring the landscape of Madrigal, where

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Speaker 1: the various plants are rich with heavy hydrogen, which is

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Speaker 1: very useful apparently as an energy source and also for drugs.

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Speaker 1: Quan sees something strange in the woods. She follows it.

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Speaker 1: She sees an alien ship near a cave where there's

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Speaker 1: clearly some sort of mining activity taking place. Quan is like, okay, like,

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Speaker 1: let's return to the outpost. We have to tell everybody

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Speaker 1: what's happening, and her friends are kind of like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: let's not do that, which is crazy, like why would

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Speaker 1: that is there's an alien ship here, I think we

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Speaker 1: need to go back. And then in that moment they

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Speaker 1: are attacked by the Covenant, who are We're going to

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Speaker 1: find this out of the course of the series, So

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Speaker 1: minor spoiler, but this is like available information if you've

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Speaker 1: ever played a Halo game, which is probably likely. The

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Speaker 1: Covenant is an alliance of alien races who have bound

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Speaker 1: together for religious reasons, and they are extremely adept and militaristic,

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Speaker 1: and they have plasma weaponry and you don't want to

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Speaker 1: fuck with them. Quan sends up a flare warns the outposts.

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Speaker 1: The colonists, including Quan's father, swinging into action. They arm

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Speaker 1: themselves with like this was crazy, with like assault weapons

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Speaker 1: like from the twenty first slash twenty seconds, like three

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Speaker 1: hundred year old guns, which I get it. If you're

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Speaker 1: the UEG, you probably don't want your colonists having like

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Speaker 1: really good weapons.

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Speaker 3: But the gunned in they unbelievable fashion, unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: They just have like antiques out here, So all the

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Speaker 1: guns and all that stuff, it doesn't it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: because the elites are like seven feet tall, incredibly strong.

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Speaker 1: They have energy shields that just turn back the bullets

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Speaker 1: with ease, and they are armed with plasma weaponry that

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Speaker 1: just melt people. They easily brush the colonials aside, and

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Speaker 1: just as the colonials are being completely wiped out, the

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Speaker 1: unsse and four Spartans Sorein riz Kai and the Master

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Speaker 1: Chief John one one seven arrive and they are bad ass.

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Speaker 1: So they managed to check the attack. Uh, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's another victory for the Spartans, minus the fact that

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Speaker 1: every single colodial has been massacred, except.

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Speaker 3: So it's kind of.

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Speaker 1: Like it's a it's a you win some, you'll lose some,

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Speaker 1: but listen, the colony has been defended. The Spartans set

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Speaker 1: off to find out where the landing site is. They

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Speaker 1: discover the same cave that Kwan had found, and inside

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Speaker 1: that cave there is some sort of alien artifact that

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Speaker 1: that the covenant we're trying to extract. Chief touches it.

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Speaker 1: The device activates with this green light of sending out

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Speaker 1: these interesting lines and patterns, and suddenly inside Chief's mind

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Speaker 1: something unlocks and these long buried memories start emerging, and

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Speaker 1: he sees like snippets of like some other plant, a dog,

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Speaker 1: like some kind of crashed ship and then Chief snaps

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Speaker 1: out of it. A cloaked Elite sprints out of the cave,

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Speaker 1: knocking down Kwan, who has already been through so much today,

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Speaker 1: and now Quan's knocked unconscious buying fleeing Elite, the elite escapes.

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Speaker 1: Chief is like, hey, take this alien drop ship back

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Speaker 1: to Fleet Command so they can look into it. I

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Speaker 1: am going to go after the Elite to see where

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Speaker 1: he went, and that's what I'm going to do. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get that artifact back. And that's what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: And the Spartans are like, are you sure, that's kind

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Speaker 1: of like not procedure. He's like, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm the Master Chief. I worry you'd do this. On Reach,

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Speaker 1: which is an important United Government world ten and a

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Speaker 1: half light years from Earth, it's the home of UNSC

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Speaker 1: Fleet Command, we meet doctor Catherine Halsey, who is a

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Speaker 1: brilliant super genius behind the Spartan project and the secret

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Speaker 1: programs of which we will soon learn about. And if

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Speaker 1: you have read the Halo novelizations are played a Halo game,

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Speaker 1: you probably can figure out where this is going. She

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Speaker 1: sees something in the way that the artifact reacts to

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Speaker 1: the Master Chief. She's watching like the security footage of

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Speaker 1: this that interests her. Admiral Paragowski arrives at Halsey's lab

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Speaker 1: and she is like the big muckety muck at Fleet

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Speaker 1: Command and she arrives and she's like, listen, Security council

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Speaker 1: might just cut your funding because of this magical debacle,

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Speaker 1: Like it doesn't look great. Yes, the Spartans defeated the Covenant,

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Speaker 1: but like all the colonials did. And Halsey's like, forget

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Speaker 1: about the colonials. We don't care. We literally don't want

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Speaker 1: to talk about them on anymore. Let's talk about this

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Speaker 1: artifact that that we found on Madrigal. And we learn

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Speaker 1: through this conversation that the ug has been fighting a

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Speaker 1: covenant for a long time, but apparently most colonials don't

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Speaker 1: really they think the Covenant is like a myth. And also,

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Speaker 1: after all these years, the UEG has no idea what

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Speaker 1: the Covenant want. They have no idea what they want,

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Speaker 1: so maybe this artifact will tell them what they want.

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Speaker 1: Is the first time they've got any kind of indication

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Speaker 1: that the Covenant wants something, so they know that they

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Speaker 1: have to get this artifact. Halsey tells Paragowsky that listened,

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Speaker 1: the artifact needs to come to my lab. It should

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Speaker 1: not go to the lab of doctor Miranda Keys, a

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Speaker 1: rising figure in the unsc and spoiler alert kind of

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Speaker 1: well not really they say it in the episode, so

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Speaker 1: I'll just tell you doctor Halsey's daughter. On her way out,

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Speaker 1: Paragowsky tells Halsey to get rid of that, and that

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Speaker 1: turns out to be some kind of clone, some kind

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Speaker 1: of clone, probably for the Kortana project, but perhaps like

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Speaker 1: trying to restart the Spartan project. What do you think

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Speaker 1: that could be?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely think And the thing is, it looks

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Speaker 3: like it could be a clone of doctor Halsey. So

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Speaker 3: there's definitely younger Halsey, younger Holesey. So there's come some

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Speaker 3: kind of strange thing here. It could be something more

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Speaker 3: intimate about trying to cure a sickness that's often like

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Speaker 3: a sci fi thing, you need to replace yourself so

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Speaker 3: your work can go on, or I think most likely

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Speaker 3: because of the show and how much they're gonna it

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Speaker 3: seems like they're leaning into the like conflicted nature of

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Speaker 3: master Chief and the kind of realities of the Spartan program.

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Speaker 3: I think it's like gonna be a spin off or

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Speaker 3: a continuation of the Spartan program.

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Speaker 1: We then go shockingly, I must say to high Charity.

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Speaker 1: Another location from the video games, somewhere in uncharted space.

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Speaker 1: This is the Covenant High Command megabase. The size of

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Speaker 1: a planet looks like a gigantic jellyfish. A Covenant profit

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Speaker 1: who is profits are part of the Alien Alliance and

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Speaker 1: they are basically the leadership class in the Covenant is

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Speaker 1: discussing with a human woman named Makey. They don't actually

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Speaker 1: say her name in this, but from IMDb this is cheating,

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Speaker 1: but m A k ee, So I'm gonna say Makey.

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Speaker 1: I think that's right.

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Speaker 3: This this scene, I just need to say this. We'll

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Speaker 3: talk more about the general show. And like the opening

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Speaker 3: really sets this kind of unexpected tone, but it fits

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Speaker 3: into what kind of what I expected from a Halo show.

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Speaker 3: Lots of action, like really great creature work. But this

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Speaker 3: scene is so prequel Star Wars. It's so Amadala and

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Speaker 3: it's so deep, hard bureaucratic sci fi, and I wasn't

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Speaker 3: really expecting to get that.

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Speaker 1: This was the scene that surprised me as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it apparently Machi. You again, they haven't said her

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Speaker 1: name yet, so I hope that's right. Is a human

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Speaker 1: that apparently was kidnapped by the Covenant and raised in

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Speaker 1: their ways. So Machi apparently predicted where the artifact would be,

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Speaker 1: and she was right about that, but not that the

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Speaker 1: Spartans would arrive and foil the plans to snatch it.

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Speaker 1: So the profit is being very very like snackety with

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Speaker 1: Machi and in fact downright derisive towards her. More interestingly,

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Speaker 1: we know that the Covenant has a nickname for master Chief.

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Speaker 1: They call him a demon. Maki would like to speak

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Speaker 1: to the cloaked Covenant warrior who escaped the cave and

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Speaker 1: witnessed the entire incident and saw that the artifact reacted

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Speaker 1: to master Chief with it, which the Covenant find very interesting.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The prophet then mock's MACKI for reading apparently like human

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Speaker 1: literature in an attempt to know the mind of humanity

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Speaker 1: on master Chiefs. Condor Kwan wakes up on route to

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Speaker 1: reach she finds the Master Chief staring at the artifact.

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Speaker 1: He's just obsessed with this fucking thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he wants to know about that flashback like he

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Speaker 3: was that conflict, like, wasn't he just always master chief?

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Speaker 3: Who is this dog?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: What where did.

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Speaker 3: Where did he come from?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 3: And that's that's obviously going to be the major seed.

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Speaker 3: And I kind of think that the nod about MACKI

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Speaker 3: reading like human literature hints that there's going to be

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Speaker 3: some kind of conflict there that's relative of this idea

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Speaker 3: of the Covenant and the humans and some kind of.

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Speaker 1: Romance.

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Speaker 3: How smell a romance across these two people who might

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Speaker 3: know where they come from have been adopted in strange classes.

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Speaker 1: I know, I love it. Miranda Keys holograms into talk

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Speaker 1: to Kwan and Ken. She's like, hey, listen, I'm really

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Speaker 1: really sorry that your dad and everyone you ever knew

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Speaker 1: has been massacred by the Covenant.

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Speaker 4: In front of your eyes brutally.

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Speaker 1: That was really tough. But but but but if you

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Speaker 1: were to like get on the twenty sixth century TikTok

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Speaker 1: and be like, hey, hey, y'all, you know what was

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Speaker 1: really cool the Spartans. They came and defended us, and yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm the only survivor, but they did a great job

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Speaker 1: and they are here to protect us. If you would

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Speaker 1: go on, you know, do a media tour and just

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Speaker 1: help us sell how what a great job the Spartans

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Speaker 1: are doing for the colonials. That would really be a help.

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Speaker 1: And Kwan's like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna sell out like that. She says that if

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Speaker 1: she were to record such a video, she would just say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what, the Spartans slaughtered everybody. What about that?

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Speaker 1: That's what they did. And if you don't want me

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Speaker 1: to do that, here are my demands free magic goal

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Speaker 1: from UEG control and Miranda Keys is like, well that

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Speaker 1: went badly and hangs up. We go back to Reach

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Speaker 1: where Halsey is a studying Master Chiefs vitals. Everything here's

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Speaker 1: you know, how your iPhone or your device gives you

303
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Speaker 1: now hopefully gives you the option to like opt out

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Speaker 1: of all your information being like sold to various places

305
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Speaker 1: them onlier Armor does not have that. You can't turn

306
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Speaker 1: of everything. Everything gets sent to unsc fleet Command and

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Speaker 1: Halsey is studying Master Chiefs vitals and she notices that whoa,

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Speaker 1: this artifact really did something to the Chief, like his

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Speaker 1: biology is different somehow, And she notices that curiously Master

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Speaker 1: she is not mentioned that he's feeling weird or anything.

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Speaker 1: So that's a note of concern. She speaks with him,

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Speaker 1: asks him about it. He says, listen, I touched the

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Speaker 1: object and I saw stuff I saw visions of, like

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Speaker 1: maybe my childhood. I saw a dog. And it's clear

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Speaker 1: that Master Chief is very troubled by this. On Reach,

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Speaker 1: doctor Keys talks with her dad, Captain Jacob Keys. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna call Captain Jacob about Miranda's unsuccessful attempt at diplomacy,

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Speaker 1: at diplomacy with.

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Speaker 3: Qualms like it was not good, badly timed. It was like, hey, sorry,

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Speaker 3: your friends died, but could you just like do some

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Speaker 3: cool propaganda for us, even though we've been messing up

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Speaker 3: your lives.

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Speaker 1: Just like go straight to camera, Just like if you

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Speaker 1: could do just a video, something vertical and just go

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Speaker 1: straight to.

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Speaker 3: Camera content about this massacre.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, while her dad is talking to her about this,

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Speaker 1: they're like dissecting covenant bodies around her, which is like

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Speaker 1: not the setting to have this converse station anyway. Keys

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Speaker 1: is frustrated at Halsey is stymying her career at every term,

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Speaker 1: and here we learn that, to make things even weirder,

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Speaker 1: that's her mom. So okay, that's an issues shocking. And

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Speaker 1: then at the end of this conversation, Captain Jacob her

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Speaker 1: dad again just very casually drops the news that hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna disappear Kwan.

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Speaker 2: What.

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00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, We're gonna liquidate her. What Yeah, We're gonna assassinate her.

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Speaker 1: What Yeah, We're gonna exit. We're gonna fucking kill her

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Speaker 1: because the story, whatever story she has, we don't want

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Speaker 1: that to get out. It's just much easier if all

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Speaker 1: the colonists for Magical Die and Doctor Keys is absolutely

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Speaker 1: fucking shocked at this. It's like, honey, how long you've

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Speaker 1: been working at the UNSC is what we do?

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Speaker 3: You know what? It's Uh, it's the moment when you

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Speaker 3: realize that they're not going to shy away from the reality,

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Speaker 3: which is they are the bad guys like they which

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Speaker 3: I love.

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Speaker 1: I that's the thing. I the books go there as well,

349
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Speaker 1: because the colonials are restive as well, they have certain demands.

350
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Speaker 1: The UNSC acts completely ruthlessly towards them. The Spartan program

351
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Speaker 1: was in fact created and deployed against human beings if

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Speaker 1: more often they're not. And I'm glad that they went there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's cool that they went there with.

354
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Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting and we'll get to kind

355
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:20,400
Speaker 3: of the tone and the vibe. But like, I think

356
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Speaker 3: it's really interesting to take what to a lot of

357
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Speaker 3: people who haven't necessarily deeply played the games, or who

358
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Speaker 3: haven't read the books, which I'm so gonna have to

359
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 3: do now, like I'm gonna need it. I think I

360
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 3: read the first one, but I think I need to

361
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Speaker 3: go back and read them because I feel like this

362
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 3: must be taking so much inspiration because there's so much

363
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Speaker 3: depth to this first episode. But I think it's really

364
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Speaker 3: cool that they essentially took something that a lot of

365
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Speaker 3: people just know as kind of like a shoot them up,

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Speaker 3: kind of like fast Pass sure, and I like, here's

367
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Speaker 3: like a Star Trek level in depth exploration of this

368
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Speaker 3: world that you've never seen. And let's talk about what

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Speaker 3: it means to be colonists, and let's talk about what

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Speaker 3: these government aids just sees will do to survive.

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Speaker 1: I really love and am fascinated by the fact that

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Speaker 1: they took a military shooter and made a show that

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Speaker 1: is very critical of militarism.

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Speaker 3: So that is very interesting and.

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Speaker 1: That's when it's gonna keep me watching at this point.

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Speaker 1: So on the back on Master chief Ship, Kwan is

377
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Speaker 1: eating his Master chief sits there like a weirdo watching.

378
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: He attempts a little humor and she's like, do you

379
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: want somebody eat? He's like, yeah, I eat nuts and

380
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: waltz and stuff, which is very funny. She's like, you

381
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Speaker 1: ever take off your helmet, you know, Mandalorian style and

382
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: he says like the Mandalorian. No, that's that is the way. Yes,

383
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 1: that's a different show. But still it's got all my

384
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: you know UI and all the interface stuff in.

385
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 3: The Mandalorian is.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's so much Wars in this show.

387
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Speaker 1: But yeah, she's and then Kwan is like, hey, we

388
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: met you remember that? And he's like no, and she

389
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: was like, so a bunch of colonists had got together

390
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,719
Speaker 1: to talk about like what the UEG was doing and

391
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: how oppressive they were being, and someone called in a

392
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 1: bomb threat and then the UNSC Marine Marine Force plus

393
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Speaker 1: the Spartans responded and they wiped everybody out, including my mom.

394
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Speaker 1: What do you think about that? And Master she was like, oh,

395
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: I remember that. Yeah, the orders were to kill the leader,

396
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Speaker 1: but then in the middle of it, the orders changed

397
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Speaker 1: and it was to kill everyone who is there. And

398
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Speaker 1: by the way, that is, I might be remembering this wrong.

399
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Speaker 1: It's been a number of years since I read Reached,

400
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: the first book in the Halo series, but that is

401
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: like the opening actions of Eric Nyland's Halo Reach, if

402
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: I recall correctly. Anyway, master Chief and the rest of

403
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: the Spartans to paraphrase him, were basically just following orders.

404
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 3: And we all know where that's happened before and how

405
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Speaker 3: I write.

406
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: And just as he is getting done telling her this,

407
00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: an order comes across his visor that says liquidate Qwan Oh,

408
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, what was.

409
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 3: Your name again?

410
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: Yes, doub He like, doesn't He does it like a

411
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: quick double check, and he's like you're Kuwan right, and

412
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: she's like yep. He's like okay. On Reach. Alarm is

413
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: growing because it's clear that Master Chief is acting super weird.

414
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: Rather than kill Kwan immediately, he has killed the video

415
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 1: feed from his ship, which is again quite alarming to

416
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: UNSC headquarters. Halsey tells Paragowski and Captain Jacob that she

417
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: thinks that Master Chief is accessing old memories, which Paragowsky

418
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: is like, oh shit, like do we want our ultimate

419
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: weapons suddenly being going off script and being like, hey,

420
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: where did I come from? What have you done?

421
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 2: Now?

422
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: We don't want that, And Halsey's like, this is exactly

423
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,479
Speaker 1: why we need the Quartana system to help keep them

424
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 1: under control. And Paragrassy's like, here you go again, pitching

425
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: the Quartana system in the middle of emergency. Stop cloning

426
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about Quortana, And she orders Halsey to

427
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: get Master Chief under control. The UNSC cuts the oxygen

428
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: level on Master chief ship, which is on autopilots. So

429
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: the idea is they just fall asleep and the ship

430
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 1: lands and then we can figure it out. The ship

431
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: arrives in Reach space. But Chief is tough and he

432
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: can somehow just like brute force himself through oxygen deficiency,

433
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: and he like wakes up and tweaks the atmosphere controls

434
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: in the ship and now everybody's able to breathe. Paragowsky

435
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: orders a full military response to meet the Chief when

436
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 1: he lands, but Halsey very very very very mischievously superses

437
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: the order directly to the Spartan squad. She tells the Spartans, Hey,

438
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: new orders for you guys, protect Master Chief no matter

439
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: what whoever's trying to harm him, doesn't matter. You protect

440
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: Chief and they're like does that mean like UNSC marines

441
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: And Halsey's like figure it out, genius, and they're like okay, yeah,

442
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: what do you think? Back on the ship, pulls a

443
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: battle rifle on Chief, my favorite weapon from the Halo

444
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: video game series, as I'm sure I'm not alone in that,

445
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: and Chief is like, listen, I like the I like

446
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: the Moxie, but that thing's not even going to scratch me.

447
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: I'm like under an energy shield. Under that is like

448
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: multiple layers of titanium. Under that is some other fucking

449
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: futuristic shit. There's no way you can even hurt me

450
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: with that, so stop it. Then he takes off his

451
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: helmet and he's like, this is my face. You may

452
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: have recognized me from season two of The Wire on

453
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: the Docks.

454
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: With Terrifying Moment.

455
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: My name is Pablo Streamer. You've seen me and other stuff.

456
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: Here's the right, here's the America Gods. Also, here's the deal.

457
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: The UNSC wants to kill you and I'm trying to

458
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: protect you. Now, do you want to put that three

459
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: burst into my face? Or do you want to live?

460
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: And Kwan's like, I want to live. Okay, So first

461
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: things first, we need to disconnect disconnect the the AI

462
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: control of the ship, and Kwan does that by shooting it.

463
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: So master Chief then takes off, but then the uns

464
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: cannons knock the Condor out of the sky. The ship

465
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: is surrounded by marines and spartans. They're about to break

466
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: into the ship. But then Master Chief here he goes again.

467
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: He's just obsessed with his artifact. He can't stop thinking

468
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: about it. He looks at it on the ground and

469
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: he touches it, and more memories come to the four.

470
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: Now he sees people's faces, different things, snippets of rooms,

471
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: and more stuff, and the artifact releases a pulse and

472
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: Fleet Command loses power. But interestingly, the Condor gets powered

473
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: up and master Chief snaps out of it. He says,

474
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: buckle up, we're out of here, folks, and they fly

475
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: away and we're off into episode two. So, Rosie, your

476
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: thoughts on episode one of Halo.

477
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: It was very different than I thought it was gonna

478
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: be same, And the more I think of it, I

479
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: actually think that's like a good thing. I think it's

480
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: really had to adapt something that is so much about

481
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 3: the player's experience which is, you know the problem with

482
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: every video game, but specifically a game like this where

483
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 3: you are in the space and world and mind. And

484
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 3: also like how much of the narrative people know of

485
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: Halo is to do with how much they commit to it,

486
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 3: so for some people that they don't. And I actually

487
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 3: thought that it was really interesting and weird and slow Bernie,

488
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 3: and also as well, like the production value was really great.

489
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: I agree this.

490
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: It looks so good.

491
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: So I'm watching We're watching it on screeners. Okay, so

492
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: episode one of the screener we get to give us

493
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: the first two. I've only seen the first one. Yeah,

494
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: is it's clear that the vfx are are not quite

495
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: all the way polished, but it still looks incredible. Yeah,

496
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: like the the practical effects, explosions, the battle scenes, the

497
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: elites themselves, Like there's just some like minor textural stuff

498
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: that it's clear that we're going to fill in, but

499
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: like Reach looks incredible. Yeah, High Charity looks incredible. Like

500
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: all the stuff looks amazing.

501
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: Something that I think is really cool that I enjoyed

502
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: a lot about this, I think was something I didn't

503
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 3: really get from the trailers. I think a lot of

504
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: stuff that came out Halo. You know a lot of

505
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: the movies, a lot of this stuff that came out

506
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 3: in this era was very like Orange. It had that

507
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: color grading of you know, war and sand and barren

508
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: and the green of master Chief and stuff. But this,

509
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 3: there's so many we get that classic opening, Like the

510
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: opening is kind of very Star Wars Star Treki where

511
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: you really get the feeling of the colonists before you

512
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 3: see them being massacred sadly. But I just thought they

513
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: actually did such a good job of showing all these

514
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 3: different worlds and spaces and they all looked so different

515
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: and were so visually easy to follow that even though

516
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 3: when you're describing it, it's like then they're there, then

517
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: they're there, but you know, from the cinematography, from the

518
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: production design, you immediately know where you are once you've

519
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 3: been there one time.

520
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. And I and again like I'm

521
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: a big fan of Starship Troopers me too. They love

522
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: it as a like a satire of millistriism that and

523
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: fascism that is so finely tuned that I think probably

524
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: the majority of people who watch that movie or just

525
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: when this is a great just action.

526
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 3: When it came out.

527
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: I think nothing deeper of it.

528
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I have a name. I have a

529
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: nameplate necklace like people get of their names, and mine

530
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: says Viehoven because I love Paul Verehoven so much. And

531
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: when that movie came out, people hated it. People were

532
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 3: like it this is military fascist propaganda, which is what

533
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: the book it's based on was. But actually it's such

534
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: a searing, fucking brilliant, brutal satire and every time you

535
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: watch it it still feels absolutely relevant. And I definitely,

536
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: I definitely like that this. This is not as funny

537
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: Starship Troopers is, like Hilario, Yes, but I love that

538
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 3: this has that same intention of examining the idea of

539
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: like a militarized action show and what it means to

540
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 3: be a militarized force. I think it's it's a really

541
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: interesting and unexpected Yeah.

542
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 5: I love that.

543
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: I love that too, And it's kind of got this

544
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: iron giant feel to it of we've lost control of

545
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 1: our weapon. Yeah, you know, our our We've made this

546
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: ultimate weapon, high tech. It is our last hope to

547
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: like turn back the tide of whatever, whatever whatever, And yes,

548
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: we are suspending space civil liberties and oppressing our colonies.

549
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: We have to, but we have to do it, but

550
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: then to lose control of the weapon because the weapon

551
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: is like is this is this the right way to

552
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: be doing?

553
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 6: Yes?

554
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: Is?

555
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: I love stories to it? And so I'm on the hook.

556
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 3: I also think that you some one of the moments

557
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: that you said that's like, I think is actually really

558
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 3: smart in retrospect, is like how master Chief can weigh

559
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 3: cup when they turned down the oxygen levels. It's like,

560
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: don't be surprised. You literally built him to be like

561
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: immortal infallible, like, and now what happens when that thing

562
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,239
Speaker 3: that you created to destroy other people? To destroy? This

563
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 3: a you know how many you know, we're talking about

564
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: video games, like what about you know, I'm not saying

565
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 3: this is the route that this is going to go,

566
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 3: but I love the implication of like that kind of

567
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 3: Did you ever play at PlayStation one game Shadow of

568
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: the Colossus? Oh? My right, so the whole time, Yes,

569
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: of course I knew A.

570
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: Shadow of the Colossus for those of you who don't know,

571
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: is a game by one of the great art tours

572
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: of video games for Meido Uta, and it is about

573
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: a person who rides around this beautiful like fantastical landscape

574
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: and is uh, that person's mission is to like kill

575
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: these massive, very gentle beast.

576
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: You know, you're meant to think because it's a monster,

577
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 3: because you're playing a video game, right, it's a monster,

578
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: and you are the person you've got to kill them,

579
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: and you realize at the end that that you are

580
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: the bad guy. You are not the.

581
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: Killing these these gentle giants that are just like chilling

582
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 1: in feelings.

583
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: You're like part of the natural order of things. They're

584
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: these beautiful and that is like one of the most

585
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: visceral versions of that story that I think of so often,

586
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: And I definitely feel like there's something interesting in what

587
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: they're seeding here where it's like master Chief recontextualizing the

588
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: people that he's meant to be killing and realizing that

589
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: there's a humanity to everyone. And that's really I mean,

590
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 3: obviously Pablo Schreiber, he's he's doing the master Chief thing.

591
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 3: It looks incredible. The suit is like.

592
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely perfect perfect.

593
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 3: But yeah, in har who plays Kwanha, I think that's

594
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 3: the that's the human heart of the show. And I

595
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: think even though you know, her whole family got fridged

596
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: and her whole community I think that it's very smart

597
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: to do that kind of man. It's like, you know,

598
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 3: it's the body, it's the body, unexpected team up. It's

599
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 3: the revolutionary and the military man. It's it's a little

600
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 3: bit mandalorian ish, but you know, there's no child. It's

601
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: just like it's hidden fortress. It's the two people who

602
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 3: team up. It's a hero's journey. And and Yarinha is

603
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: so good, like when she was she's great doing this

604
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 3: great Quanha did this, like when she does the the

605
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: speech to the doctor and she's saying, she's like, you

606
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 3: know what, I'm just going to tell them that you

607
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: did it, and she's so unhinged and angry, and You're

608
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: just like, yeah, I wouldn't even blame you. Like they

609
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: have their propaganda and you have yours. So I think

610
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 3: that this added an unexpectedly kind of human element that

611
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: I wasn't. I don't think that that would have been

612
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: the story that got told if this show.

613
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: Got was not expecting them to take this angle on it.

614
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: And so that is the thing that will keep me

615
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: watching because I'm really fascinated. But I'm glad you brought

616
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: up shadow of the classus. Let's talk about some of

617
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: our favorite video games. I just want to say about

618
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: Shadow of the Classus. One of the reasons why I

619
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: think Uita is brilliant and that game in particular is

620
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: brilliant is that. So one of the mechanics of that

621
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: game is you have to climb these massive closs i right,

622
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: and then kill them. And killing them involves like following

623
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: this like pattern of button prompts like uh, circle, ye, yeah,

624
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: it'll be like circle, triangle, triangle, circle trial, try, and

625
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 1: it'll be that these these strings of patterns for minutes

626
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: and minutes and minutes, and you're like, why am I

627
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: doing this? Why is this so hard? Like why is

628
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: this boss fight like this? The reason it's like that

629
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: is the game is making you complicit in the murder

630
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: of these.

631
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: Constantly and for a long time. Like even as you're

632
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 3: there and you're thinking, why does it take so long?

633
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 3: Why do I have to press all these buttons? You

634
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 3: don't stop doing it. You just do it because what

635
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: the game is telling you to do. It's what you

636
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: were ordered to do. You. Oh, it's a monster, I

637
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 3: have to kill it. That's the nature of video game.

638
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: And that creates this really really like unique emotional feeling

639
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: of It's one of the saddest games I've ever played

640
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: in my.

641
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 3: Life when you have the realization of what is happening. Yeah,

642
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: that's the power. I think of those video games rather

643
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: than film and TV. And obviously we love film and

644
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 3: TV so much, and you know, I had nothing better

645
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 3: than sitting in a cinema and feeling like you're immersed

646
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: in that world. But in video games, you become complicit.

647
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 3: You take the actions, and you make the choices. It's

648
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: the ultimate pick your own ending story.

649
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: What are you are you playing anything right now?

650
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 3: Okay, so I I do have like a next gen

651
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: system that I do intend to get eldem ring on,

652
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 3: but this can't wait for you to Yeah, I'm so

653
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 3: excited for it, and I know it's going to be

654
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: really hard, like any any mission based game, but that

655
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 3: allows you to kind of roam and do your own thing.

656
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: I am the roaming and doing my own thing person.

657
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: I literally good news. There's so I will never finish

658
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: the game.

659
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 3: I still haven't fully completed Breath of the Wild simply

660
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: because all I do is go and cook. I just

661
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 3: I'm very far and I could finish it if I want,

662
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: but I just play it, and every time, I'm like, well,

663
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 3: I could do this last boss, or I could just

664
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 3: like I could just go and cook some food and like,

665
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: you know, ride a deer. And I love that notion

666
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: of it, but I have not yet done it. For

667
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: two reasons that I love my Switch. I'm like the

668
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: number one Nintendo.

669
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: Switch big switch fan as well.

670
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 3: I love it. And there are two games. There's a

671
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 3: game called Ollie Ollie World, which is a skateboarding platformer

672
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: that is just so addictive and the art style is

673
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: really beautiful. It's absolutely inspired by Pendleton Ward and Adventure Time,

674
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 3: and it has the most incredible You could just spend

675
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 3: like three hours just modeling your character because it's got

676
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: so many different unbelievable options. You can have all different

677
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 3: kinds of looks and skin tones and hairstyles and tattoos.

678
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: And then it's basically like a really simple but really

679
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 3: really tricky game where you can play it kind of

680
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 3: like Tony Hawk, where you can get a number of points,

681
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: but you've always got to finish the course. So that

682
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: and then I was like, okay, well I've played that

683
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 3: a lot, and I love indie games. I'll always go

684
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 3: back to it. And I was like, I'll get Elderly

685
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: and then if you have the Switch Online expansion pack,

686
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: which obviously I got for Animal Crossing because I love

687
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 3: Animal Crossing. I'm a big They just uploaded I think, like, well,

688
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: they uploaded two new sets of Mario Kart courses that

689
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 3: have absolutely new for Mario Kart eight, which is eight

690
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 3: new track. So that's it. That's just my life. I

691
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 3: absolutely love it. I love Merica, and I was like,

692
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 3: why weren't they make a new Mario Cup. But now

693
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, because they can just keep making new

694
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 3: tracks for this, and I will happily take.

695
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 6: Those new tracks, those free new tracks. I know for

696
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 6: you it's only about one game, so tell me.

697
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: Well, right now I'm playing so much elder Yeah, I've

698
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: not been a big Demon Souls Bloodborn person, which is

699
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: the from Soft, the publisher. Those are their previous games

700
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: and the kind of games that were created under the

701
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: stewardship and direction of Hitataka Miyazaki, who's also directed of

702
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: the Solo series. So this game is like in the

703
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: lineage of those games. But veteran Souls Born players will

704
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: tell you that this is the easiest version. I don't

705
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: know about that. It is still like early game is

706
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: so hard. It's so hard, Rosie. It's like everything can

707
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: fucking kill you. Little animals are beating your ends. And

708
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: here's the thing so that this game is it's extremely

709
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: popular and it's great. What do I love?

710
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 3: Love?

711
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 1: What do I love about it? I love that it's

712
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: like Breath of the Wild. There is a feeling of

713
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: the thrill of exploration, of just finding new dungeons, new

714
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 1: corners of the map, new places, beautiful places, and really

715
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: that's how to progress in the game, because the very

716
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 1: first thing that happens in the game is you come

717
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: out of the tutorial like catacombs, and you're presented with

718
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 1: this huge night on a steed that you can't beat.

719
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: You can't beat them. Maybe if you're a veteran Souls

720
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: Born player, maybe you can beat them, but like one

721
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: hundred percent, you can't fight this thing, and so your

722
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: only option is to go off and explore, and through

723
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: that exploration you can level up and eventually be able

724
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: to fight these various bosses. So it's that kind of

725
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: feeling of what else is there to explore. I'm like,

726
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't know how many hours I'm into this game,

727
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: but there has I'm there's still a whole section of

728
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: the map that I haven't online.

729
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: You were saying in Austin you were on like level

730
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 3: seventy seven or something and it was still so hard,

731
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 3: Like you have lost the hard pot.

732
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 2: I'll tell you.

733
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm level of right now ninety eight and

734
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 1: I'm still getting my ass.

735
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 2: Kid.

736
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because there's this whole discourse has come

737
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: up around this game. Part of what makes these games

738
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: so difficult is there is there can how to play

739
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: them is very opaque. There's all these features and tips

740
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: and tricks that you really rely on the community to

741
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: tell you. There's all these secret buffs and secret d

742
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: buffs that you can get by like hugging in PCs

743
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: and different things in different ways to like make your

744
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: stuff your your your like weaponry and your and your

745
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: power set like work better. But that's not explained to you.

746
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: And so this is a real feature of these kind

747
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 1: of games. And also like players can leave little messages

748
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: for you and here there's like a secret passage here,

749
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: and sometimes those are fakes. So what's been interesting is

750
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: there is this whole discourse. Some publishers, some of the

751
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: people the devs that worked on another game that got

752
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: released it is also very good that I'm not going

753
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: to talk about. But they're in America. We're like, uh,

754
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, why do people like this? Why is this?

755
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: It's so weird like taking shots at this game kind

756
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: of like at a not directly, but at a weird angle,

757
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: being like, oh, it's this huge landscape, but it's so empty,

758
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: and like the UI is not good, like you don't

759
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't tell you all the stuff on the screen.

760
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: And I agree with that to an extent. But the

761
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: thing this game does, and this is a hallmark of

762
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 1: the kind of not to like not to bundle all

763
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: Japanese game devs together, okay, but like similar to Shadow

764
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: of the Classes, there's a thing that elden Ring does

765
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: that is kind of like this, uh, where they use

766
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: the mechanics to kind of like enhance a philosophy. And

767
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: the philosophy is, from my perspective, ask the other people

768
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: playing how to play, yes, and so that's what the

769
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: philosophy is. Don't ask us, ask the other players, create

770
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: this community and through that you will discover how to

771
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: play and I And whereas the more western style is

772
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: here's everything you need right, and also like, if you

773
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: need more stuff, you need to be better at it.

774
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: Here's what you can might do micro chans. Oh yeah,

775
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: you can pay, you can pay. They give you this

776
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: Eldering gives you everything you need.

777
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: You just need to know you need.

778
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: To ask other people. And I think and there's something

779
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: really uh it sounds hokey, but there's something I think

780
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: really cool about that I watch. Let me, I want

781
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: to I want to shout out this creator. Hold on

782
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: a second, because I forgot what his name is, Like,

783
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: I've been watching videos by I'm not I'm not going

784
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: to pronounce this right, but I'm just going to say.

785
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: The creator's name on YouTube is Vati Vidya, So it's

786
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: Vaa t I v I d Ya. And this person

787
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: like has a ton of content like dealing with bloodborn

788
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: with demon souls and now elden Ring, and this person

789
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 1: creates truly beautiful content that like really enhances the mythology

790
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: and the wonderful like magic feeling of exploring the game.

791
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: And the fact that that elden Ring the creator, velden

792
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: Rings the from software, the publisher and Bandynamco like the

793
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 1: fact that like they are empowering other creators to create

794
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: this stuff around it. They are saying, hey, go and

795
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: seek out these people because they will help you play

796
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: the game. I think is really cool and it's part

797
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: of what I find so magical about this game.

798
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: I also think like it actually takes from people might

799
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: not remember this because we're both kind of old and

800
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: like gaming has changed a lot, but like it's like

801
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 3: the odd is like we had, like we had to

802
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 3: communicate with each other to get cheat codes to get

803
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: extra lives. You had to have the friend who knew

804
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 3: what the cheat code was for the specific really weird

805
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 3: nichee again, and you always had that one friend or

806
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: you know, you would you would have the one friend,

807
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 3: or you'd all chip in to buy the Giant Game Guide,

808
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: you know, and then you know all the difference she

809
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: had exact place, And I kind of love that. Yeah,

810
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 3: I didn't really know that was such an active part

811
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: of Triple A games until Death Stranding, where they were

812
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: literally allowing people to build new objects, and I just

813
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 3: I love It's like what we talk about with comics

814
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: all the time. I love the conversation between creators and

815
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 3: fans and fans and fans, and that's actually what keeps

816
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 3: this stuff alive so to me that just I love

817
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 3: that that's an aspect of the game, because I actually

818
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 3: think that's the joy of it is.

819
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 4: That's why we do this podcast. That's why we love the.

820
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 3: People who listen to it. That's why the people want

821
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 3: to listen to it is because it's just people talking

822
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 3: about stuff they love and if you can and it's

823
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 3: even better if that is a reward based Like you

824
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 3: if you're like I'm talking to you about this and

825
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 3: guess what now, you can you know, not die for

826
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: ten minutes longer because because I learned something, what do

827
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 3: you know? And you can like share that. I actually

828
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: think that's really cool. I love the aspect and.

829
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful game. Like if you like the rest

830
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: of the wild, then you will enjoy this game. Uh,

831
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: just when you get frustrated, just explore. That would be

832
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: my one little hint. Yeah, okay, now people a lot.

833
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: Now for the slightly bummer part of this conversation, which

834
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: people people have been asking, Hey, you're gonna play Hogwarts Legacy?

835
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: Are you gonna play it? What do you think about it?

836
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: How does it look? And listen, I've watched all the

837
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: videos I have watched. The videos include some more recent

838
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: ones of the more finished build. It looks great. It

839
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: looks triple A. The magic system looks really cool. That said, Yeah, Rosie,

840
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel. I'll say how I feel.

841
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: I because of Jk's history of transphobia, semi recent, you

842
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: can't even get history doing this. She's been doing this

843
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 1: for now, for several years now. I just I can't

844
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: give her any more money. That's a. That's it's really

845
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: that simple. Like I've given her a lot of money.

846
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: I've i have been part of a community of fans

847
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: that loves these stories. But I just can't, in good

848
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: conscience give her any more money. And I've got like

849
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 1: a lot of games that I could do that I

850
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: could easily play. Whatever other people want to do, that

851
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: is their business, but I don't. I just feel like

852
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: I can't.

853
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 4: I know, I totally agree with you.

854
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 3: It's it's a it's a it's a huge disappointment, I

855
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 3: think for lots of people. Yeah, Like it's it's one

856
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 3: of those things that we are both people who not

857
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 3: only have we like loved Harry Potter, have been part

858
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: of amazing communities, but like that's part of why we

859
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,959
Speaker 3: get to do this because yeah, Jason's won my one's

860
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 3: back there, Like this is part of why we get

861
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 3: to do this for our job, which is amazing, is

862
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 3: because that was something that we spoke about or we

863
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 3: talked about or we kind of shared with people, you know.

864
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 3: But I'm the same. I can't. I don't get any now,

865
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 3: not only ethically do I not want to support, but

866
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 3: I don't get any love out of it. I can't

867
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: ignore it. I can't separate it really hard.

868
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: I can't. I couldn't.

869
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 3: It's active, it's it's harmful, especially in the wake of

870
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 3: the kind of transphobic laws and anti LGBTQ IA plus

871
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 3: laws that are going across that is having a massive

872
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 3: platform and spreading that kind of hatred.

873
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: It just the violence that that community faces, and it

874
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: creates more virulce violent death. Like it's just it's actually

875
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: not in any way. No, I couldn't. I couldn't. You

876
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: give her more money.

877
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 3: And there is plenty of like you said, there's magical,

878
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 3: amazing games. Especially I think like the Switch for me

879
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: really changed my life. And I've never really been a

880
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 3: PC game mat so, so the Switch has changed my

881
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 3: life because now there's all these incredible indie games made

882
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: by queer creators, made by transcreators, and you can just

883
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: access them on the Switch. The Switch has incredible sales,

884
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: like I got Spiritfarer, which is easily one of my

885
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 3: favorite games of all time.

886
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: Game unbelievable.

887
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 3: I got it in a Switch sale. It's a beautiful

888
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 3: game about death and grieving and it's kind of this

889
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 3: incredible platformer and it has the most unbelievable explorations of

890
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 3: love and different kinds of love and different kinds of people,

891
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 3: and it is just so wonderful. And to me, I'm like,

892
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 3: I love Triple A gaming and it's so exciting. And

893
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 3: I've got a much better I have terrible hand to

894
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: my coordination, and I sucked at video games.

895
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, but I've lost my son.

896
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: Now you know I'm doing better. So you know what,

897
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 3: I'm lucky.

898
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 4: I'm an adult.

899
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 3: I get to make my own decisions. That's not something

900
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 3: either of us are going to decide to support.

901
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: Before we move on, Have you played Celeste?

902
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: Yes?

903
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 3: I actually yeah, I uh yeah, Celeste. I almost got

904
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 3: to write something very cool about that game, a project

905
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 3: that never happened. But that's another a brilliant game about

906
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 3: mental health depression.

907
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: One of the I think one of the most profound

908
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: statements about mental health in a popular format ever. Believe

909
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: the video games Celeste, which is in a an extremely

910
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 1: hard but rewarding in its hardness platformer with I think

911
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: one of the one of the great like original soundtracks

912
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: in a video game ever. It's really cool like electro indie. Uh,

913
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: soundtrack by Lena Rain if you have a switch, and

914
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: I think it's available actually in the in the in

915
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: the game stores of most major consoles. Celest. Great story,

916
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: beautifully told, wonderful art, great music. Try it out. Uh,

917
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: next up, let's talk. What do you say we talked

918
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: to the great, the legendary Grant Morrison.

919
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 3: I mean, is there anything bad?

920
00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: No, is not. Let's do it. Welcome to the Hive Mind,

921
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: where we explore topic in greater depth. Was a helpful

922
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: an expert guest today, folks, let's get right to it.

923
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: The legendary, the legendary, the iconic, incredibly influential Grant Morrison.

924
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 3: Grant, it's so good to see you, and thank you

925
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 3: so much for coming.

926
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: It's just yes, so wonderful.

927
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,399
Speaker 2: Oh, you're welcome. I see I see this, I see

928
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 2: this camera movement.

929
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 3: It's a it's a free wheeling conversation.

930
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 2: So important, spinning hitchcocky.

931
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: It's our fourth guest. I mean it's our second guest,

932
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 3: or four of us. But yeah, something we talk about

933
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 3: a lot on here because we like love comics, like

934
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 3: I make comics.

935
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 4: Jason's a writer.

936
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 3: We we love reading them. What was kind of your

937
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 3: comic book origin. What was the thing that made you

938
00:50:59,000 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 3: love comics.

939
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: I just I was a little kid in the sixties

940
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,919
Speaker 2: and comics were always about and I was lucky enough

941
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: that my mother was into science fiction, so she was

942
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: a huge fan of sort of science fiction paperbacks and

943
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: all those you know, kind of fifties, sixties, all the

944
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,479
Speaker 2: really cool stuff, so I had that around the house.

945
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: I was very into the imagery, though I didn't particularly

946
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 2: like the books, but comics were there as well. And

947
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: it was my uncle Billy particularly. He was the same

948
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 2: guy who got me into the occult later. But he

949
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: had this huge family and cats and dogs and rabbits

950
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 2: and stuff, and they had comic books about all the

951
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 2: all the time, So it was it was the Flash

952
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 2: was the one that always remember, I mean, the first

953
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 2: the first comic I remember from when I was like

954
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: three years old. Was actually a marvel Man, a British thing,

955
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 2: you know, that the one that Alan now eventually did

956
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: that became Miracle Man, But it was the very early

957
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 2: stuff with Mcanngelo marvel Man, and I remember that was

958
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: it was marvel Man beats Baron Minchausen and it was

959
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: just this mad no, it was this mad story. I

960
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 2: love that it's got like, you know, there's he ties

961
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: his donkey to this kind of hitching post and then

962
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: in the morning all the snows melted and the donkey's

963
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 2: hanging off the spider the local steeple, and it was

964
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: just it was all these weird, these weird Barren moonshous

965
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 2: and stories, but with marvel Man involved in it, so

966
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: that that was the one that stuck in my mind.

967
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: And that idea of the costume the Superman, you know,

968
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 2: seemed kind of intriguing, but it was the it was

969
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 2: the Flash for me really. I found these ones when

970
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 2: I was starting to get a bit more, you know,

971
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: a bit older as a kid, like six or seven,

972
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: and the Flash comics just really fascinated me. They were

973
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: just so wild and psychedelic and colorful, and I just

974
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: loved the idea that you could move at super speed,

975
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: and of course if you moved at super speed, you

976
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 2: would wear that costume, you know, and it's like the best,

977
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 2: just the best costume and comics, the best boots ever invented,

978
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 2: you know. So I kind of esthetically I loved the Flash.

979
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: I loved the rounded buttocks of the Flash and the

980
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: runners muscles, you know, and just this the sleekness of

981
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: the whole thing. And so that that was it. And

982
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 2: from there it was kind of I remember things like

983
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: leading the superheroes and stuff. But it wasn't until I

984
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: was twelve years old and I was in hospital for

985
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: an appendix operation and my aunt Aina, who was Billy's wife,

986
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: brought me in a big ton of comics and that

987
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 2: was it. I became hooked for at that minute. And

988
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: they just they kind of got me through that whole

989
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: hospital experience and I was just so into it. I

990
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: remember it was Action comics, Superboy and Flash for the

991
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 2: three that really did it for me. So that was

992
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: my kind of origin. Then I became just a classic

993
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: fan boy, you know. I visited every store in Glasgow

994
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 2: meet and my friends would sort of get together and

995
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,280
Speaker 2: we'd just do these like super like like forty mile walks,

996
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 2: you know, to find every comic store and they be

997
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 2: sinning because we didn't have dedicated stores back then, so

998
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 2: you would have to go to every local news agent

999
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,959
Speaker 2: or you know whatever, a drug store or whatever you'd

1000
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: call it, and they all had different comics. Because the

1001
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 2: distribution was so spotty, we just we just kind of

1002
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: got whatever came in on the ships, so you would

1003
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 2: find all kinds of different versions of that month's comic books,

1004
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: and it was really it was kind of exciting. You know,

1005
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: you walk for miles and come home with this call,

1006
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 2: and sometimes it would be really boring, and sometimes you

1007
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 2: just get some of the best comics ever. So that

1008
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 2: was it for me, you know. Once I was a

1009
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: teas I got really into the whole collecting and fan

1010
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 2: boyish kind of aspect of it, and then just came

1011
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 2: about the notion of I always wanted to write. I

1012
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 2: love drawing, so wouldn't it be great to do comic books.

1013
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: I'm kind of trying to pursue that. Unfortunately, I was

1014
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 2: young at the time the British invasion happened, and the

1015
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 2: American editors were coming here to kind of find people

1016
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: to do their work. So I was in the right

1017
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 2: place at the right time to do something I love

1018
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 2: to do.

1019
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: When I think about the comics that you write, there's

1020
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: often a self referential quality. Equality of these are created

1021
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: by a comics reader who who understands the character and

1022
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 1: is in some way commenting on the image of the

1023
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: character through the story. Was that always something you were

1024
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: going for that just kind of happened organically as you

1025
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: were embarking on your writing career.

1026
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 2: I guess it happened as I got into it. But

1027
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: for me, it's honestly it's a literalism that will eventually

1028
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 2: be revealed as something that weird adhd or something. But

1029
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 2: you know, it was just a super literal approach to it,

1030
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 2: which I thought was was was useful to me was

1031
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 2: to just think, what's the actual artifact, what is the

1032
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: what is the exchange going on between me and the

1033
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 2: writer of account. It's very different from books or from cinema.

1034
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: You know, on television or cinema, you can kind of

1035
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 2: the director tells you what to do. You know, you're

1036
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: taking through the two hour movie. It's it's a fifty

1037
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: minute drama and you kind of have to stay with it,

1038
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 2: you know, it's possible to stop and start, but not

1039
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: in the way with a comic. It's super integrated. You know,

1040
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: the experience that the writers and the artists bring to

1041
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 2: it's tactile. You're holding it, you turn the pages, you

1042
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 2: can go backwards and forwards. You can if you've stuck

1043
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: in a bit of the store, you can go back

1044
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 2: and really stare at an image in a way that

1045
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 2: you don't do with any other format. So for me,

1046
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 2: that became the interesting thing is the actual the physicality,

1047
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 2: and they did the actual reality of what is Superman.

1048
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 2: Superman is that collection of thousands of thousands of pages that,

1049
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,479
Speaker 2: when assembled, creates this concept of a character. And even

1050
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 2: though that character's personalities changed radically, and in the eighties

1051
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 2: of so years he's been around, I think everyone still

1052
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 2: agrees there's something about it that we all understand to

1053
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: be Superman. It's not just the sign, it's not just

1054
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 2: the costume of the colors. There's an essential character that

1055
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 2: is somehow I created over all that time. So I

1056
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 2: became fascinated by that. That not in the way that

1057
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 2: you know, I think some of my peers would be

1058
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: interested in telling stories, but what if it was real?

1059
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 2: You know, what if the Marvel universe actually existed, but

1060
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: it's six one six, you know, it's over there somewhere,

1061
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 2: whereas to me, it was never over there. It was

1062
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: right here. You could hold it. You could collect all

1063
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 2: those books and have the entire Marvel Us in a

1064
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 2: room if you wanted. And that was the real Marvel universe.

1065
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 2: It was physical, it was touchable, it's tangible, and it

1066
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 2: developed through decades, and it took like hundreds or ye

1067
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 2: potentially be now thousands of people who would give up

1068
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 2: their time and their creativity to sustain this hyper object.

1069
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 2: So for me, that honestly became the fascinating thing, and

1070
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: it was to take it super literally and to then think,

1071
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: what is what am I doing here? I'm not necessarily

1072
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: telling stories. Although I am telling stories, the stories also

1073
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 2: have to take into account the fact that the characters

1074
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 2: exist as these bizarre thought forms that have outlived me

1075
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 2: and will outlive you know, Scott Snyder, and will outlive

1076
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 2: you know, Frank Miller. It's like they're bigger than us,

1077
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: and in port way are they bigger than us? So

1078
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 2: the stories also then had to kind of address that,

1079
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: and I think what you see in my work that

1080
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 2: people call meta fiction. Baly, you think it's meta fiction

1081
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 2: is a much more concrete, tized attempt to grapple with

1082
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 2: the object and the way the characters expressed themselves through

1083
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: these specific objects, and how we relate to that. You know,

1084
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: It's a lot going on that we took for granted

1085
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 2: just just reading comics, you know, and the exchange of

1086
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: information and the way we allow people into heads who

1087
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: may have very different politics or ideas, but we just

1088
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: let them straight in there. So as you can see,

1089
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: that became a huge field of interesting of exploration. For me,

1090
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 2: was just that relationship, and it meant that they were

1091
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 2: real because I couldn't deal with them. I didn't want

1092
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 2: to just write fantasy stories of what would it be

1093
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 2: like if you lived in the New York Spider Man

1094
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 2: was there. That's meaning it's meaningless because I'm never going

1095
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: to go to New York Spider Man's there. It's utterly

1096
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 2: meaningless as a concept that we have created internally inside

1097
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: our universe, a simulation with Spider Man who's played out

1098
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 2: this immense over decades, and he's adapted his continuity in

1099
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: order to constantly seem fresh and going, what the hell

1100
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 2: is that? What is that organism? And then that was

1101
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: that was it? So I mean long answer, like sorry, convolated,

1102
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: but that's how I came at it was trying to

1103
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 2: actually have a relationship with it that was very real,

1104
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 2: and that they treated the characters as real, as treated

1105
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 2: the ideas and it as having a longevity that was

1106
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 2: beyond human And so what did that make them? You know,

1107
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 2: put them almost in the realm of gods or of

1108
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 2: ideas that have outlasted generations and going on for hundreds

1109
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 2: of thousands of years. And that was That's always been

1110
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: my kind of point of contact and what I wanted

1111
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: to explore.

1112
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember I once did like a comics writing

1113
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 3: class with Mike Kerrey and he talked about The X

1114
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 3: Men in that way where he basically said, this is

1115
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 3: if somebody found every single issue of the X Men,

1116
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 3: they would think this was like the Iliad. I would

1117
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,439
Speaker 3: think this was this huge human story that had been

1118
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 3: going on for So what was it like for you

1119
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 3: as a fan and a cartoonist and a writer when

1120
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 3: you started, when you had that realization that you were

1121
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 3: adding to that mythology and you were kind of part

1122
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 3: of that ongoing puzzle.

1123
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 4: How did that feel.

1124
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: I felt very interesting to see the least, you know,

1125
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 2: that was amazing. But you know I was young. I

1126
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 2: was twenty seven I think when I started an Animal Man,

1127
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: and that was my first attempt to explore that. That's

1128
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 2: when I really get into you can see those first

1129
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 2: few issues of me trying to do what was a

1130
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: traditional kind of superhero. Yeah, deconstruction of the day, you know,

1131
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 2: a Frank Alan, the kind of what if it was real,

1132
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 2: you know, it would be a bit like this, And

1133
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 2: I lost all interested in that very quickly. So no,

1134
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 2: and it's not I mean, I'm not trying to be

1135
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 2: rude about anyone. And people have explored that.

1136
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: No, no, it's just your own taste, very clear from them,

1137
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: run you know, absolutely, but people have explored, you know,

1138
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: what would it be like to.

1139
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 2: Be what psychologically what would be like? And honestly, my

1140
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: one feeling is like that seems like dilla tantish of

1141
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: relevant questions because the only formly exist is here, So

1142
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 2: what do they do? What's the function here? What? You know?

1143
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 2: So that so I was kind of with with Animal Man.

1144
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 2: I began to explore that and it was quite primitive then,

1145
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: you know, I sent in a little drawing of myself,

1146
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 2: and you know, the artists didn't quite understand the clothes

1147
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 2: I was wearing. I look like I'm wearing these cossack

1148
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 2: clothes and I'm doing this. The first page you see me,

1149
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 2: I'm on my chair doing this kind of Cossack Russian dance.

1150
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 2: It's amazing. So but this was, this was this little

1151
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 2: thing I sent in there, and it was what a

1152
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 2: later came to call a fiction suit, and it was

1153
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 2: the idea, well, okay, these characters exist, but I can

1154
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 2: create a representation of myself and actually talk to them,

1155
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: actually going to have dialogue. And even though it's like

1156
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 2: their responder, obviously i'm writing animal's words, but I'm trying

1157
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 2: to give it that as much autonomy. In my head,

1158
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, Okay, if this guy is real, I've spent

1159
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 2: twenty five issues establishing a personality. He's got a family,

1160
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 2: is into this kind of music, he likes this kind

1161
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 2: of food. What would his answer to this question be?

1162
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 2: So trying to give him as much autonomy as a

1163
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: character of thinking, Okay, I'll just accept if Buddy's mad

1164
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: at me, then I'm going to deal with That's if

1165
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: he questions what I've got to say I'll deal with that,

1166
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: and again trying to always give the characters the dignity

1167
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 2: of outlasting me. You know, I was twenty seven where

1168
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 2: I did it. I was younger than him. Now now

1169
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 2: I'm a Rumbly's age and he like, give me the bastard.

1170
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 2: It's like, are you danswer my grave? So what am

1171
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 2: I talking to there? What is the scale of the

1172
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 2: creature of the entity express through the pages? So again

1173
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 2: I keep bringing it back to the esoteric. But that's

1174
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 2: what I was going with, and I know man was

1175
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 2: quite a simplistic way of doing that. It was like

1176
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 2: sending a little drawing of yourself and talk to the

1177
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 2: characters and make him understand that you're aware of your spatial,

1178
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 2: geometrical dimensional relationship to them, but that you're not necessarily

1179
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: privileged privileging yourself in relation to them. And see what happens,

1180
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 2: you know, see what happens, and then have animal I

1181
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: can see you, And I think that moment is still powerful, Yeah,

1182
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 2: because it's real. It's a real moment. I wrote him

1183
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 2: to really see out of that comic book, so that

1184
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 2: actually happened to that character and he had that moment,

1185
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: and that that's what makes him who he is.

1186
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: You started with Animal Man in eighty eight, so this

1187
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: is post Crisis on Infinite Earth's kind of a reset

1188
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: for DC. And and it was, in retrospect, a pretty

1189
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: audacious choice at a character who I think everybody would

1190
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: agree with, you know, kind of like a minor character

1191
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: in the firmament of DC. And then you do this

1192
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 1: really original, kind of mind bending reflection on a character

1193
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: that not a lot of people had thought about. What

1194
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:59,919
Speaker 1: was it that made you decide, Okay, animal Man, That's

1195
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: that's the character I want to explore right now at

1196
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: this stage of my career.

1197
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I honestly, it was the obscurity I

1198
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: think of Animal Man was the number one thing. And

1199
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: as I say, the vogue at the time was to

1200
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 2: pick up characters who weren't necessarily DC's a list, and

1201
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 2: they were kind of throwing them at British writers, you know,

1202
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 2: to Alan Moohood had very big success like making swamp

1203
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 2: thing work in a completely new way. And so the know,

1204
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 2: Neil Gaming came in and he took what had been

1205
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 2: Jack Kirby's sand Man does sand Man? You know, they

1206
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 2: were kind of realizing that we knew what we were

1207
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: talking about. So but as I said, the vogue goes

1208
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 2: very much to can you take a character from our

1209
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 2: catalog that just hasn't worked for maybe twenty or thirty

1210
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 2: years in d see any potential in that? So I

1211
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: knew that was I knew that's the way they were

1212
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 2: coming to it. And I always had this fascination with

1213
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: animal man. I just am I love animals, the big

1214
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 2: thing about animals since I was a kid. And here

1215
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 2: was this actor who could do this, and it seemed

1216
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 2: a very unique power that a lot of other characters

1217
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 2: didn't have. It was really specific, it was easy to understand,

1218
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 2: but he hadn't really made a big splash. And I

1219
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 2: also loved it because he started as a my greatest

1220
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 2: adventure story, so it wasn't even a superhero story, just

1221
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 2: so just this dude who goes out one day and

1222
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 2: gets animal powers. So I kind of loved that as well. Mate,

1223
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 2: it grounded them a lot more. Maybe you can you

1224
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,479
Speaker 2: could imagine the movie that one. You know, I only

1225
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 2: just put on a costume, So going into it was just, yeah,

1226
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 2: I've got an idea about that, And I don't think

1227
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: you know Karen Berger or Ditchio Danna or Jeanette Canibell

1228
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 2: have even heard the name of animal Man in the

1229
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 2: last twenty years. You know. It's like when Neil Neil

1230
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 2: walked in with Black Black Orchid and they said who

1231
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 2: Black hartckead? So they I think in a lot of

1232
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 2: ways they didn't know what kind of characters they had

1233
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 2: and as long as they heard their interesting pitch. Then

1234
01:05:55,440 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 2: at the time, the desire for novelty was such that

1235
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 2: weigh down really good opportunity to do these things. So yeah,

1236
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 2: I just I pitched them on that, and I didn't

1237
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 2: have the so called meter fictional aspect at that time,

1238
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 2: but also the secondary thing that I loved with the

1239
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 2: animal rights thing. And again but again it was part

1240
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 2: of the old thinking because Swamp Thing was very much

1241
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 2: an eco comic and I love that aspect of it.

1242
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 2: So I thought, well, let's do this specifically because you know,

1243
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 2: I'm an animal liberation frunt supporter back in the days

1244
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: before it was illegal and all that, you know, Hunt

1245
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 2: Sabatur stuff, the whole thing. So I thought, he's my

1246
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 2: chance to do what Alan's doing with swamp Thing, you know,

1247
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: the ecal thing, but I'll talk specifically about animal rights

1248
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: and all this stuff I'm kind of involved in. So

1249
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 2: that was the secondary big thing with Animal Man. And

1250
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 2: as I say, it was only when I got tissue

1251
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 2: five and I thought, I just don't want to do

1252
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 2: this eco swamp thing kind of poetic caption stuff, So

1253
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 2: what can I do? And that became like, let's just

1254
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 2: do it. And I thought, people, people will hate this.

1255
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 2: If you put yourself in the comic, they're going to

1256
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 2: hate it. They're going to just you'll spoil the magic.

1257
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 2: I just knew that was that's what I wanted to

1258
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 2: talk about it. And I thought, what I'm talking about

1259
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 2: is the actual reality of this yeah DC universe. And

1260
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 2: I think ultimately that people will find that interesting, and.

1261
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 3: I mean they did, and that's become the the the

1262
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 3: author and in the books, the death of the author,

1263
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 3: sometimes physically on the page has become such a comic

1264
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 3: book trope. Now, So you really and obviously like I

1265
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 3: love that Animal Man kind of these pictures gave everyone

1266
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 3: this freedom to do this wild kind of esoteric stuff.

1267
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 3: But then like a year later, you you were like

1268
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 3: doing Batman with Arkhamisira, So like, what was it like

1269
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 3: to go from this one of the you talk about

1270
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 3: the kind of godly nature, the immortals of comics, these

1271
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 3: kind of new mythology. What was it like from basically

1272
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:58,439
Speaker 3: getting to introduce a generation of people to Animal Man

1273
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 3: to taking on someone who's one of these three kind

1274
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 3: of icons of of DC comics and comics in general.

1275
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they they came at the same time because

1276
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 2: when I went down to visit DC, when I got

1277
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: the invite to come and pitch some stuff on the

1278
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 2: day that they kind of signed everyone. So I went

1279
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 2: down and it was Animal Man was the one. I'd

1280
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 2: kind of come up with that on the train because

1281
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 2: I thought I'd come up with Animal Man was very

1282
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 2: swiftly created out of just here's what I'm into, Here's

1283
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 2: what I'd love to just write about. But Archiemasilam had

1284
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 2: been in my head for years and it been plotted out,

1285
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 2: and I had talked over with with a good friend

1286
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 2: of mine in Glasgow who was just obsessively into psychology

1287
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 2: and symbolism. So we went through this whole kind of

1288
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 2: process long before that. I've hold you do with Batman?

1289
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 2: How would hope would be a Batman story? And Lenn Wayne,

1290
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 2: who's probably my biggest influence in comics, had done a

1291
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 2: Who's Who in DC entry about Archem Asylum and he

1292
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 2: just had to invent this stuff from whole clause. So

1293
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 2: he talks about, you know, I'm as Arkham was the founder.

1294
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 2: The guy committed suicide, or I didn't commit suicide. He

1295
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 2: kills one of his patients after the stock market collapse.

1296
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,600
Speaker 2: But there's just a line that says, after finding his

1297
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 2: wife and child, murthered and he commits suicide because of

1298
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 2: the stock market collaps And I said, well, well, let's back track.

1299
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 2: He's surely finding your wife and child. Bud might have

1300
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 2: tiggered the suicidal response. So but that one line was

1301
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 2: just like, Okay, let's tell that guy's story. That seems interesting.

1302
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 2: And I think I've read Arkham quite recently and I'm

1303
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: going to write a big piece about it again because

1304
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 2: I think it's been very misunderstood over these But I

1305
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 2: think that whole story of Ammade's arkm is really interesting,

1306
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 2: and that's what gives it the real Gothic Underton.

1307
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: Why do you think people have misunderstood.

1308
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 2: I think they misunderstood that from the very beginning. They

1309
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 2: didn't understand that what we were trying to do was

1310
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 2: like a European like one of those like Jan Schwankmeyer

1311
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 2: puppet movies. One was animated, something really cranky, like wood cut,

1312
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 2: like you know, like like Nosferatu, like what's his name?

1313
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 2: Like that, you know, the vampire guy, like I'm forgetting

1314
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 2: the names. But it was not not Branstoe. Yeah right

1315
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:22,560
Speaker 2: more now. So that's what we were looking at and

1316
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 2: German expressionism. And we thought because I was, I was

1317
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 2: going to the cinema a lot to see kind of

1318
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 2: weird like you know, with my adrends messures of the

1319
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 2: afternoon and a lot of John Cocktails stuff which we

1320
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: loved as well, and fed into Batman, and we thought,

1321
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 2: can we do a Batman? It's like a Tarot card,

1322
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 2: that's like an exploded Tarot card. So then we took

1323
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 2: the idea of that the Moon Tarot, which was trumpeteen

1324
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 2: and it's a it's about trial and initiation, it's about

1325
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 2: illusion and intoxication and madness. So we took that. So

1326
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 2: what if we do it's almost like a Taro card

1327
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 2: folded out with Batman going on their journey through all

1328
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 2: the symbolism that Tarot club and plugging the villains in

1329
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 2: and so what I think people people after things like

1330
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 2: Killing Joke and after Dark Night. They were looking for

1331
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 2: another big, cinematic kind of American Batman, and we did.

1332
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 2: We did this euro Batman and himself. But it was

1333
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 2: also it was like that because they said to me like, well,

1334
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 2: the new Batman is he doubts his missions. This is

1335
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 2: the new way we're looking at him. This is the grounded,

1336
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,679
Speaker 2: gritty way. So I thought, let's let's talk about that.

1337
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 2: But for me, it was always this was this was

1338
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:36,679
Speaker 2: a dream that Bruce Wayne would have every week maybe

1339
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 2: and he would wake up from this. It was Alice

1340
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 2: in Wonderland, and it's structured like Alice in Wonderland. It's

1341
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 2: got Alice, it's got Carol coats at either end. So

1342
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 2: the whole idea was to do something was much more

1343
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,640
Speaker 2: kind of left brainy or you know, poetic or is

1344
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 2: it left being a right brain remember, but you know

1345
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 2: what I mean. It was like we wanted to do

1346
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:03,719
Speaker 2: this euro puppet, thea to Crag Silouettes kinder version of Batman,

1347
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 2: and I think it was constantly compared to things that

1348
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 2: were much more cinematic, much more Hollywood, much more blockbuster

1349
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 2: versions of Batman, which in themselves would not love these books,

1350
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 2: but it wasn't what we were doing. And I've rarely

1351
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 2: seen it critiqued, and in that, you know, I've never

1352
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 2: seen it critiqued as what's it like the cocktail, what's

1353
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 2: it like? What are they taking from Yan Schrankmeyer here?

1354
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 2: What is it? You know, it's like it's always critiqued

1355
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 2: in the ways that it's not like killing Joke a

1356
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 2: Dark Knight.

1357
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 4: The cast of releasing a book.

1358
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 2: Massive, but people, it's weird because it's the biggest selling

1359
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,879
Speaker 2: graphic novel ever. I mean, I still get massive royalties

1360
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 2: from that one book, which were published thirty years ago.

1361
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 2: But there was always, even in dcar reluctance to admit

1362
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 2: to its success has really talked about in those terms,

1363
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 2: which are kind of fine, fascinating. So again, you know,

1364
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 2: it's an interesting one to me. I think it's it

1365
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 2: should be looked at from a different angle, maybe because

1366
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: I bling it's new did a lot of great criticism

1367
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 2: over the year.

1368
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 1: It's interesting that that story has a lot of elements

1369
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:25,440
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of deep symbolic elements, multi layered elements,

1370
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: is kind of like psychological gothic horror feel to it.

1371
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 1: How was that received at the time, and just to

1372
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:40,600
Speaker 1: piggyback off what you were saying, it's interesting that you

1373
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 1: felt like, oh, this story was out of step with

1374
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: the kind of like cinematic intent at the time, and

1375
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: yet a lot of that stuff has now found its

1376
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:55,519
Speaker 1: way into cinema, into Batman movies, into The Dark Knight,

1377
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 1: into the latest Batman movie. A lot of that kind

1378
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: of tone and molic referential nature.

1379
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeh, I think definitely, And a lot of those filmmakers

1380
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 2: grew up with that book. I mean, and I think,

1381
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:12,879
Speaker 2: I mean honestly, initially I imagined it as a very super

1382
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 2: like focused thing I've talked about before us and I

1383
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 2: imagine someone not not necessarily Brian Bolland, but Gary Leech

1384
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 2: or someone in that you know, who would super draw

1385
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 2: every detail like Dave Gibbons. Yeah, I kind of imagine

1386
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 2: that this hyper sensitive, like super every every bit of

1387
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 2: dirt is in your face. When it came out, and people,

1388
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 2: people were very you know, the reaction was that was

1389
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 2: was quite negative, I think from generally from within the

1390
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 2: comic book community and not so much from outside. But

1391
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, what Dave mc keen did, I mean,

1392
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,360
Speaker 2: looking back, is that that's exactly the way the book

1393
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 2: should be. And that is why that's why filmmakers still

1394
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:53,680
Speaker 2: love that book because of what Dave did. It's like

1395
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 2: he just took it to a level that I think,

1396
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,640
Speaker 2: you know, anyone who's in the Batman comes in and

1397
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 2: that's one that's beyond all the others. That's the weird one.

1398
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:05,640
Speaker 2: That's what all of you read after we got to

1399
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 2: that one, you know. And I think, honestly, all that Dave,

1400
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 2: and it says why I've gone back and I've been studying.

1401
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 2: I'm kind of loving it again because I was so

1402
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 2: anti that the negative reaction was so strong. I really

1403
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,519
Speaker 2: was like, oh no, honestly, nothing to do with me, folks.

1404
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 2: You know.

1405
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I worked in a comic bookshop in London

1406
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 3: and that was one of our perennial you've got to

1407
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 3: read this, and then it was horror comics people, and

1408
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 3: it was film people and it was super.

1409
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 2: But do you think visually, I think it really brings in.

1410
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 2: The Directors always love it, like you.

1411
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 3: Know, all the time, it's like storyboard, Yeah, but it's not.

1412
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 2: It's because it's so internalized. It's like inside that man said,

1413
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 2: it's not like well, what if he was real? You know,

1414
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 2: yeah it wasn't real. Yeah, but it wasn't What if

1415
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 2: this was Bruce Wayne's dream and all you had to

1416
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 2: do was have them going to sleep at one end

1417
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 2: and waking up that and it's like you're not allowed

1418
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 2: to really tell that story. Oh it was all a dream.

1419
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 2: But here's the story that is a stage play. It

1420
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 2: would work. It's like that is and that's why I

1421
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 2: think it draws, like you know, it draws filmmakers, particularly directors.

1422
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,679
Speaker 2: You always hear them that's the favorite, but that's honestly,

1423
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 2: that's Dave and it's Dave's staging. He was just like,

1424
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 2: that was like getting the best director I could have

1425
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:23,839
Speaker 2: hoped for because my vision for it was too small.

1426
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and something that's kind of I guess something that

1427
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:30,719
Speaker 3: if I'm really interesting about that, I think I would.

1428
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 3: I'm so excited that you want to write about it

1429
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 3: more because now we have an accessibility to stuff like

1430
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 3: Spank Mayer. You know, the Jabbawaki's just on Yeah, it's

1431
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 3: just on YouTube, and a lot of people, I think

1432
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,719
Speaker 3: they haven't seen that stuff. They haven't read Bandedestinae before.

1433
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 3: They hadn't.

1434
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 2: But also it's stuff they would love. I mean, I

1435
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 2: think all that all that stuff is like, you know,

1436
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,720
Speaker 2: people who are into the genre movies, they're going to

1437
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 2: love the spank wild stuff. It's just it was avant

1438
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 2: garde in the eighties or the nineties, but right now,

1439
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 2: I think it's like people's imagine have been broadened by

1440
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:04,639
Speaker 2: all kinds of television shows and films. Everyone's been walking

1441
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,680
Speaker 2: up to science fiction and fantasy and horror. So I

1442
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,800
Speaker 2: think things like that that once we're completely outsider kind

1443
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 2: of stuff would easily fit it. Like it's show these

1444
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 2: you know, spank mass Alice and all the early stuff.

1445
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 2: It's it's amazing. Yeah.

1446
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 3: Also, I mean you can watch if you have a

1447
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 3: library card, you can watch Cabinet of Doctor Caligary for free,

1448
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 3: you know, on the on the streaming services and stuff.

1449
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 3: So I think it would be really cool to I

1450
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:33,679
Speaker 3: mean that book, like you said, it's like the most

1451
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 3: successful like graphic novel ever, so people can read it. Yeah.

1452
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 2: Crazy, And I feel weird because I've always been defensive

1453
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 2: about it and I've stopped. I've decided no, I'm out,

1454
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:47,720
Speaker 2: and that was a great thing. You know, I'm not

1455
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 2: going to be defensive anymore.

1456
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 3: I'd love to see people get to recontextualize it with

1457
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 3: that knowledge and those kind of touch points.

1458
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 2: I mean, who knows if they will, but I think

1459
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 2: they should look at it that way. It's like theater.

1460
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 2: It's like, it's not comics, it's not it's like after all,

1461
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, it's those influences, aware of what

1462
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 2: made Afterhan Asylum, And I've never seen it kind of

1463
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:14,600
Speaker 2: studied in those terms. I've always seen it compared to films,

1464
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 2: something else that was not influenced.

1465
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 1: By About a year ago, Tim Silly, the artist Tim Silly,

1466
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 1: shared a panel from your run on Batman. I think

1467
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 1: it's Batman six six six, and it's Damien, and around

1468
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:36,160
Speaker 1: Damien are these text bubbles that are the television news

1469
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:40,520
Speaker 1: like that he is listening. Yeah, and it's like temperatures.

1470
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 1: Temperatures rose for a record breaking one hundred and twenty

1471
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 1: third day. Quarantine receptions remain, but yeah, China epidemics which

1472
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 1: claim more than eight ten million lives will soon be

1473
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: under control, say Chinese health authorities. And this is two

1474
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 1: thousand and seven. And it's interesting because when people talk

1475
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 1: about your work, they often talk about this kind of

1476
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 1: far flung almost predictive quality. And at the same time,

1477
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: I think if you look back, you're just drawing very logical,

1478
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 1: rational lines from things that were happening at the time.

1479
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that stuff? Now?

1480
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 2: It's just weather. It's just like seeing how the weather works,

1481
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, you know, as I've always said one

1482
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 2: when I talk about magic, you know, one part of magic.

1483
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 2: Back in the days of the Pharaohs, you would be

1484
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,639
Speaker 2: considered magic if you'd worked out how the nile works,

1485
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 2: and what's how the season's work, and sometimes that fertilizes

1486
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 2: the valley and sometimes it's dry. To the pharaoh, your

1487
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 2: knowledge is magic because he's not thought on these scales.

1488
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 2: He's not studied those particular patterns. So it's just onnest.

1489
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 2: It's just a case of here's the pattern, here's what

1490
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 2: it's obviously going to play out, here's how it's played

1491
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 2: out before in history, and here's how it's likely to

1492
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 2: play it again. Because these things tend to fractal in

1493
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 2: the same ways, and this is what it's likely to

1494
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 2: be like in ten years time. So it's not hard.

1495
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:12,560
Speaker 2: But like I said, magic sometimes looks like magic to

1496
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,679
Speaker 2: people in the same way the weather looks. Weather looks like, well,

1497
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 2: how do they know what the weather's going to be

1498
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 2: in LA And yet they can tell you to the minute.

1499
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 2: They tell you the clouds will pass at twelve eight.

1500
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 2: Oh wow, the clouds just passed. So it's it's just

1501
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,839
Speaker 2: it's just observation, you know, and seeing where the strands

1502
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 2: are going to play. And that's that's why I'm very

1503
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 2: concerned that I live four miles from NATO's number one

1504
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:42,240
Speaker 2: nuclear target. Yeah, I'm in I'm in the red zone,

1505
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:47,639
Speaker 2: the actual red bit wherever thing is obliterated. So yeah,

1506
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 2: think about that.

1507
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 1: It's fun.

1508
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 4: It's fun.

1509
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,599
Speaker 3: Kind of I guess, like in the in the something

1510
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:59,040
Speaker 3: that I feel like kind of combines that predictive nature

1511
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 3: and that kind of that more esoteric, but also links

1512
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 3: into like talking about how you originally imagined Arkham as

1513
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 3: this super detailed, hyper detailed thing. Let's talk about X Men,

1514
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 3: because New x Men, you know Frank's work on there.

1515
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 3: That is a book that I feel like it ended

1516
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 3: up predicting a lot, It ended up shaping how the

1517
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 3: X Men existed for decades on screen in comics. What

1518
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 3: was it like for you? You take your DC Batman like

1519
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 3: that you've done that pillar. What was it like for

1520
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 3: you to take on the X Men, who have this again,

1521
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 3: that is a mythological amount of space to play with

1522
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 3: and stories to add to. What was your kind of

1523
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:41,680
Speaker 3: approach there and how did new X Men come to be?

1524
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 2: Well, it was the jok aside called off and they said,

1525
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:47,720
Speaker 2: do you want to do a Spider Man at the

1526
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:54,679
Speaker 2: X Men? Like spiderbout? I just have no conation, never

1527
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 2: had any canation that kind of feel nothing about Spider Man,

1528
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 2: not like the movies. But I had nothing for Spider Man.

1529
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 2: But I like team books, I like ensemble books, and

1530
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 2: I like, you know, different characters kind of clashing with

1531
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:10,720
Speaker 2: one another. So I said, I'll do X Men, And

1532
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 2: then thinking about it was just like what can we

1533
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 2: do with XHn? I hate the kind of the persecuted thing,

1534
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 2: you know. I thought it was time and it seemed

1535
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:22,960
Speaker 2: like time again. It's like the nostalgia, the poignancy of

1536
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 2: the past. In about two thousand, you know, everyone thought

1537
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 2: we're really doing it. Here's been ten years since the

1538
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:31,639
Speaker 2: follow the Berlin Oh wow, globalization is a good one,

1539
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 2: not a bad one. You know. There was this sense

1540
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:37,960
Speaker 2: like there was a potentially the twenty first century it

1541
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,479
Speaker 2: come and then everything really changed and it's got just

1542
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,600
Speaker 2: more and more of Bussett. But The X Men was

1543
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 2: kind of coming after the Invisibles, and the Invisibles had

1544
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 2: been very topian, and I began to see the different

1545
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 2: strands that would the utopian vision might not be you know,

1546
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 2: that might be a bit sixties, a bit you know,

1547
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 2: you were taking a lot of extacy. Of course, everything

1548
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,840
Speaker 2: looked wonderfu so there was that sense of where where's

1549
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 2: it going to go next? And but what I did

1550
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 2: want to do, like I say, was I really saw

1551
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 2: the eyes of Greek culture so that there was going

1552
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 2: to be superhero films. Now there's going to be a

1553
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 2: retreat into almost infantilism, where culture would back off from

1554
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 2: the future because the future was suddenly scary. It was

1555
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:22,519
Speaker 2: we don't want to go there anymore. It's like, oh no,

1556
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,840
Speaker 2: it's it's dystopia. They used to be Star Trek. Now

1557
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:29,400
Speaker 2: it's it's the Walking Dead. And even though there was

1558
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 2: Walking Dead, wasn't around that time. But that's that's my man.

1559
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 2: These are my two polarities, you know. And at that time,

1560
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, let's let's not face the future.

1561
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 2: Let's let's talk about the past. So you get in

1562
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 2: music recycled. Everything was recycled, and children's comics from the

1563
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 2: sixties were being turned into blockbusters. So it was about

1564
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 2: that and I thought, well, that's the it's the idea

1565
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 2: of the Greek culture. And they had culture, the underground culture.

1566
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:58,760
Speaker 2: Goss all of us who were alternative suddenly get exposed

1567
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:01,679
Speaker 2: to the light, you know, and said of Clayboy bunnies,

1568
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 2: suddenly it's suicide girls. It was like the alternative was

1569
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 2: sexed up and sold and so that was annoyingly but

1570
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:12,559
Speaker 2: I thought, I have to kind of reflect the fact.

1571
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 2: And in a way that means wy we poisoned them,

1572
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:18,760
Speaker 2: we colonized them. So but we never knew what to

1573
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 2: do with what we've done. But yeah, they you know,

1574
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 2: it's true our food, they watch our movies, they love

1575
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 2: our characters. So we we won, but we kind of

1576
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 2: they were creepier and weird doing us, so they kind

1577
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 2: of messed up. But X Men was about, well what

1578
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 2: if they won? Because I was fed up with the persecution,

1579
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 2: the effort. I thought, what if humanity finds out tomorrow

1580
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 2: that we have an extinction gene. It's done it's like,

1581
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:49,559
Speaker 2: you guys are like a cancer. It's been nature just

1582
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 2: shut you down. And the reason Homo superior exists is

1583
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 2: in order to carry this forward in the same way

1584
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 2: that you carried it for from Neanderthals, whatever your story

1585
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 2: you tell yourself is. And it became I thought, the

1586
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 2: others this potential there, because then you can create the

1587
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:08,920
Speaker 2: idea of mutant culture and notion like because the idea

1588
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 2: of humans fighting mutants, I thought, it seems a bit

1589
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:17,120
Speaker 2: like punching down if the mutants are just a persecuted minority.

1590
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:19,599
Speaker 2: But I thought, what if they become like they're coming

1591
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:22,839
Speaker 2: for you. They are your children, they are the future,

1592
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 2: and all the things you believed are abit to be

1593
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 2: overturned by these beautiful young freaks. And so it was

1594
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,720
Speaker 2: kind of like I said, it was me talking about

1595
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 2: what was happening at the time, but it was like,

1596
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 2: so what if they suddenly you found out you are

1597
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:39,960
Speaker 2: it's over? And it was because to me, that's the

1598
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 2: reality of growing older. It's like there's other people coming,

1599
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 2: move on. And so rather than the next men being like, oh,

1600
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 2: they're under the thumb, and it's the sentence, it's more

1601
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 2: they're winning that would really make the war intensify, and

1602
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 2: I thought that what gives it more drama. You know,

1603
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,640
Speaker 2: It's like humans are now reacting to potential extinction, but

1604
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 2: we can imagine that the nice mutants will probably figure

1605
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,679
Speaker 2: a way to save so you have this great drama.

1606
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 2: And that that was it. So I thought, I always

1607
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:13,600
Speaker 2: my favorite X mem was just the whole Chris Claremont

1608
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 2: John Burns thing when I was a kid, so you know,

1609
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,280
Speaker 2: that was the one. It was just like he was

1610
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:21,320
Speaker 2: hitting every note and it was very progressive for the time.

1611
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 2: So I was looking back at that and I thought,

1612
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 2: and in the way that the Justice League was the

1613
01:26:28,160 --> 01:26:30,679
Speaker 2: kind of mythology it was like folk tales of larger

1614
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 2: than life figures. The X Men is is soap opera.

1615
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 2: You know, it's always about soap opera. So I thought,

1616
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 2: it's got to have evil twins. It's got to have.

1617
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 2: It's got to have the Joan Collins bitch. It's got

1618
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,120
Speaker 2: to have, you know. It was just all I had

1619
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:48,760
Speaker 2: built it like dynasty, you know, like dynasty, and that

1620
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 2: was where I thought, So it's got to be Soper

1621
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,879
Speaker 2: was good, constantly falling out affairs and like screaming matches

1622
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 2: so yeah, so that that was where it came from,

1623
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:03,400
Speaker 2: and I just built tied that. And then the weirdness

1624
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,680
Speaker 2: of kind of almost predicting what in ninety eleven that

1625
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 2: we had that issue that is not like but you

1626
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 2: can feel it. You can feel it like I see

1627
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 2: the weather, you can feel it coming. So there was that,

1628
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 2: and then it was kind of became this post ninety eleven,

1629
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 2: you know, here is the future. How you deal with it?

1630
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very interesting. I want to unpack something you said,

1631
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:28,520
Speaker 1: because I find it fascinating. I think most many creators,

1632
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 1: many storytellers, would think, okay, let's start our characters at

1633
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 1: this at at a kind of low level, and then

1634
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 1: you know, in fits and starts, let's get them to

1635
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:41,879
Speaker 1: finish somewhere higher. And you said something very interesting, tapping

1636
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 1: into the kind of feeling at the time, late nineties,

1637
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 1: early two thousand's, pre nine to eleven, the idea that

1638
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:55,680
Speaker 1: Western capitalism is won, we won, Russians are done, Communism

1639
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: is done.

1640
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:58,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, the end of history Francis VII.

1641
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: The end of history, right, And so you plug into

1642
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: all of that and say, okay, the mutants have won.

1643
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 1: They're actually like gods that walk the earth. The celebrities,

1644
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 1: they look beautiful, they're extremely powerful, they're incredibly rich. They won, and.

1645
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 2: Then you.

1646
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 1: And then you found the drama through this and what

1647
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 1: comes after the victory was was that? How did you

1648
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:28,040
Speaker 1: pitch that to Marvel or was it just and and

1649
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: what was their reaction to that when you said, I

1650
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: want to do it where they win, where you know, Joe,

1651
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 1: I want to do it where they win.

1652
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 2: No, even everyone was fine with it because they just

1653
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 2: wanted to shake the thing up. And there was you know,

1654
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 2: I had, I had the whole proposal I sent and

1655
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 2: from beginning to end, and that they changed a little bit,

1656
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 2: but not much. And the whole Zone review is right there.

1657
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 2: You know, you can read it. It's it's there. But

1658
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,719
Speaker 2: they were fine with it. It was only afterwards. But suddenly,

1659
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 2: let's make them the League of Minority again. I just thought, well,

1660
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 2: you know, and then that scarlet, which wonder, my wife,

1661
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:10,640
Speaker 2: this is the vision you're talking to this plastic monstrosity

1662
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 2: as the vision. No so, and then she just like

1663
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 2: waits Morow again, which was a weird, but it's what

1664
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 2: you can do. And that's what happens if you're living

1665
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 2: in a fictional universe you never reality and or someone

1666
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 2: could just say no more mutants and all that story

1667
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:26,559
Speaker 2: potential disappears as.

1668
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 3: A creator, because I mean, I like how you're like

1669
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:33,600
Speaker 3: you you accept that that's how it is. Perhaps you

1670
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 3: have such a great philosophical, kind of esoteric way of

1671
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 3: looking at these stories.

1672
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:38,360
Speaker 4: But how does it feel.

1673
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 3: To you when you see that kind of thing happen?

1674
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,439
Speaker 3: Like is it part and parcel? Is it two sides

1675
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:44,639
Speaker 3: of the sword of you being able to create something

1676
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 3: incredible as someone else can take it away? But how

1677
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 3: does it feel for you, as the person who birthed

1678
01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 3: those ideas along with your artistic collaborators, to kind of

1679
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:55,520
Speaker 3: see them changed or erased?

1680
01:29:56,720 --> 01:29:59,519
Speaker 2: So honestly, it's disappointing, as you might imagine and or

1681
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 2: buy this same time, it's it's part of the parcel

1682
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 2: of the compact that has made ye where there's tons

1683
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 2: of us making this quilt, you know, and something, so

1684
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,840
Speaker 2: it's slightly differently and I can't and it's it's not

1685
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 2: you know, I'll just look at things that I've done

1686
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 2: of other people do versions of them, and it's, oh,

1687
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 2: you don't get it. I don't get it. I'm sure

1688
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,640
Speaker 2: they feel exactly the same because it's all it's all interpretation,

1689
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 2: So you have to remember that it's just it's like

1690
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 2: a role like I had Batman, you know, with with

1691
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:33,400
Speaker 2: Dick Grayson was says, it's just a role you've got

1692
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 2: to play, you know. Being the X Men, you take

1693
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:37,960
Speaker 2: on that role for a few years and you hope

1694
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:41,839
Speaker 2: that your version of your portrayal of that is remembered fondly.

1695
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 2: But there will be other portrayals that seem to to

1696
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 2: you know, to kind of contradict that, like the difference

1697
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:53,080
Speaker 2: between Jaquin Phoenix's Joker and you know, the other boy

1698
01:30:53,200 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 2: what's his name, I've forgotten Jardtime as well. They're all

1699
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:03,000
Speaker 2: very different, and I think you just have to in

1700
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 2: long running superhero universes and continuities, you have to understand

1701
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 2: that everyone's got to take in some of the teakes.

1702
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 2: You'll go, you don't, don't we all get it. You

1703
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:14,760
Speaker 2: haven't read that book. You don't understand that that game

1704
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 2: meant that when he said that, what she meant that

1705
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 2: when she was writing. So you kind of just have to.

1706
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 2: I tend not to read them afterwards because it is

1707
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:25,559
Speaker 2: a bit like, you know, it's like you know, it's

1708
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:27,800
Speaker 2: just seen someone else getting out of your yes, your

1709
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:32,680
Speaker 2: love you go he okay, I'm wish you guys all

1710
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 2: the best.

1711
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 3: But you kind of actually lean into something that we've

1712
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 3: been talking about a lot there, which is like, we

1713
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 3: are living in an unprecedented time as people who grew

1714
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,040
Speaker 3: up with this stuff who it wasn't or it was

1715
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 3: on the fringe, it was radical, it was subversive, and

1716
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:52,640
Speaker 3: now we're living in a world where all these corporations

1717
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 3: are talking about multi verses, different versions of the same characters. Yeah,

1718
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:01,800
Speaker 3: you know what, what how does that feel to you

1719
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:05,919
Speaker 3: to be living in this space where people can imagine

1720
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:07,720
Speaker 3: the things that you've been saying and the way that

1721
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:11,479
Speaker 3: you understood it as these different characters living alongside each other.

1722
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 3: And it's kind of like, what's it like to see

1723
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 3: that become real in this kind of modern day space.

1724
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:19,880
Speaker 2: Well, it's not so much it's become real as I

1725
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:22,920
Speaker 2: think what you're what you're saying is it's become commodified

1726
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 2: in a way that before it was seen as as

1727
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 2: non commodifiable. But we made the multiverse commodifiable to everyone

1728
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 2: wants one, you know. But but you kind of think

1729
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 2: that through and I've always talked to the multiverse. It's like, well,

1730
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 2: corporations would love this because it's like, you know, it's

1731
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 2: like orange kit cat, coffee kit cat, k cat, it's

1732
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:48,680
Speaker 2: like coking up kit cat. They love to take a

1733
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 2: basic idea and then just smear it out across a

1734
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 2: spectrum of possibilities that is quite limited, and so they

1735
01:32:56,439 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 2: love the notion of the multiverse. It's seen as I'm sure,

1736
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,680
Speaker 2: quite a limited potential, but you can have you know,

1737
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:07,559
Speaker 2: here's your red Supman's, your blue Man's, here's your here's

1738
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 2: your original cocapila, Here's They love versions of things to

1739
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,680
Speaker 2: sell you the same rubbish over and over again. So

1740
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:18,760
Speaker 2: I think the multiverse definitely appeals, but higher in a

1741
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:22,160
Speaker 2: higher sense then that. I like the idea that the

1742
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 2: notion of the multiverse is becoming accepted because I always

1743
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:29,040
Speaker 2: think when a concept starts to become accepted, the walls

1744
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:33,160
Speaker 2: of reality becomes thin, and that concept maybe actually starts

1745
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,639
Speaker 2: breaking through the possibilities for it being real, maybe start

1746
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:39,680
Speaker 2: to be noticed. The next thing I think we'll hear is,

1747
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 2: you know, our telescopes have discovered a weird dark matter

1748
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:47,760
Speaker 2: fluctuation that suggests the close by universe and that's all

1749
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:49,280
Speaker 2: we can hope for. I think the fact that people

1750
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 2: are getting into it is something coming as a notion

1751
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:58,640
Speaker 2: of this, this absolute fragmenting into all possibilities, which I

1752
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 2: think could be you know that my might break down

1753
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 2: a few categories when we expanded every possibility.

1754
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:10,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to link back to something you mentioned earlier

1755
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 1: in the interview. You use the word hyper object to

1756
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:19,799
Speaker 1: describe this kind of vast catalog of comics stories, both

1757
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:26,720
Speaker 1: metaphysical and physical. Hyper Object is the word that was

1758
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:29,800
Speaker 1: invented by the environmental philosopher Tim Morton to kind of

1759
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:33,240
Speaker 1: describe plastic Yeah, the process speak is.

1760
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 2: A hyper object. Where there is a hyper object, is

1761
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:38,479
Speaker 2: a hyper object. Yeah.

1762
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:41,360
Speaker 1: I want to if you could just unpack the idea

1763
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:44,400
Speaker 1: of the hyper object and what what it means to you,

1764
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:46,760
Speaker 1: uh visa e comics.

1765
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 2: The hyper object is it's it's an object of physical

1766
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 2: object that's so widely distributed it's hard to see it

1767
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:57,000
Speaker 2: in its entirety. So we don't necessarily recognize the fact

1768
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:00,040
Speaker 2: that it's a singular thing, right, you know, so I

1769
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 2: can actually the entirety of the of the history of

1770
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:06,360
Speaker 2: life is that, you know, but we're talking In the

1771
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 2: terms of comics, the DC universe is a high probject

1772
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 2: is distributed across decades. It's been added to by multiple

1773
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 2: voices and multiple generations, but it still holds its same

1774
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 2: basic shape. It's like a coral that keeps the same

1775
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 2: because there's only so much you can push it before

1776
01:35:23,960 --> 01:35:28,439
Speaker 2: it's the Marvel Universe or before it's it's Archie, you know.

1777
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:33,439
Speaker 2: So it's a higher p object basically in that sense

1778
01:35:33,479 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 2: that I first described it as. It's distributed so widely

1779
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:38,639
Speaker 2: that it's hard to see it as a singular thing.

1780
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:41,479
Speaker 3: I could just talk about this kind of conceptual stuff

1781
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:48,519
Speaker 3: all day. I'm like, okay, so how I just wonder

1782
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:49,320
Speaker 3: how you feel like?

1783
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:51,640
Speaker 4: I love the way that you.

1784
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:54,240
Speaker 3: Talk about like interacting with comics and that comes through

1785
01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:56,920
Speaker 3: with your work in this kind of fictional space. How

1786
01:35:56,960 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 3: do you feel like, do you feel like that power

1787
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:03,840
Speaker 3: of those conversations and the reality of comics still exists

1788
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:06,719
Speaker 3: in the space where we have all these different movies

1789
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,880
Speaker 3: and and there's sort of that expands the idea of

1790
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 3: them as hyper objects, Like do you feel like even

1791
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:15,960
Speaker 3: if there's a commodification and there's a there's a very

1792
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 3: corporate aspect to it. Do you feel like there's a

1793
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:22,120
Speaker 3: way that it's actually expanding people's understanding or people's access

1794
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,000
Speaker 3: to these kind of stories and thoughts.

1795
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I think, And that's that's what we were

1796
01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 2: saying earlier, you know, the sense that if you can

1797
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:33,320
Speaker 2: sit to Avengers endgame, then you've been asked to consider

1798
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 2: like beings from another world and the center if all,

1799
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,760
Speaker 2: you've been asked to consider the potential like crystals could

1800
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:47,040
Speaker 2: somehow can you know, contain energy of a scale and

1801
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:51,240
Speaker 2: substance that could all to the universe. People have been

1802
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 2: asked to accept really weird things, you know that rob

1803
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:59,000
Speaker 2: but then the junior could actually survive the impact, And

1804
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:05,280
Speaker 2: that's you know, it's so Yeah, as I say, I

1805
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:08,240
Speaker 2: think the boundaries of imagination have been pushed much wider,

1806
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:11,240
Speaker 2: and not just by by Marvel movies, but by by

1807
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 2: everything that people are consuming right across Netflix shows. And

1808
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 2: they know it's vampires, it's it's God, it's demons, monsters.

1809
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:22,479
Speaker 2: It's that there's more demand for that. I mean, there's

1810
01:37:22,479 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 2: there's way less of anything, though there is a niche

1811
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,160
Speaker 2: for it, it's way less event It's like say seventies

1812
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 2: oh two cinema. But there's a lot of stuff that

1813
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 2: was once the province of comics and of geeks and

1814
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 2: of of you know, of people arounto. Genre material is

1815
01:37:37,880 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 2: is way wider now, it's much more mainstream. So I

1816
01:37:41,439 --> 01:37:47,639
Speaker 2: do think that people's imaginative envelopes have been stretched, you know,

1817
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 2: but they're still there, are still fed at a limited

1818
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 2: diet of particular things. But it's it's way more than

1819
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:55,759
Speaker 2: back in the day when people would have thought, what's

1820
01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:57,800
Speaker 2: it's a show but aliens, no way, I'm not watching

1821
01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:02,360
Speaker 2: it's about magic. It's about that's the people would't even

1822
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:04,880
Speaker 2: have those conversations there. They would just watch it if

1823
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 2: it was cool, and it was you know, you could

1824
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:07,040
Speaker 2: binge it.

1825
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:10,640
Speaker 1: So much of the texture of your work and the

1826
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:14,200
Speaker 1: way people respond to it is that kind of referential,

1827
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:20,920
Speaker 1: predictive almost, this feeling of prophecy within the story of

1828
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:25,080
Speaker 1: a world, you know, drawing these lines to a world

1829
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:28,519
Speaker 1: that seems like it could exist sometime in the future,

1830
01:38:28,520 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 1: and oftentimes that seems dark or or somewhat twisted, or

1831
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:35,160
Speaker 1: or almost dystopian.

1832
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:35,920
Speaker 3: Uh.

1833
01:38:35,960 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 1: And then I think of your work of All Star Superman,

1834
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 1: which is so optimistic. What what do you what is

1835
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:49,120
Speaker 1: Grant Morrison optimistic about in twenty twenty? Grant, we need

1836
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: something right now.

1837
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 2: That's the one optimistic, not just honestly, you see people

1838
01:38:55,360 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 2: in the inhale, you know, almost TV are still still fighting,

1839
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 2: are still standing up for whatever they are standing up for.

1840
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 2: It's like some some power within is to resist tyranny

1841
01:39:09,080 --> 01:39:13,880
Speaker 2: and monstrosity. But that you know, it's it's it's hard

1842
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:16,240
Speaker 2: to be optimistic. And the more optimisticy are, the more

1843
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:19,200
Speaker 2: people throw things in your face to prove that you

1844
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 2: shouldn't be optimistic. So I'm very guarded about it. Honestly,

1845
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:26,559
Speaker 2: I've always been optimistic, even living four miles from number

1846
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:30,200
Speaker 2: one target should world go free break out? I just

1847
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:34,559
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know. It's like maybe it's just me.

1848
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 2: I don't know about what about what I don't know

1849
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 2: about the best in us triumphing, about the fact that

1850
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:43,679
Speaker 2: we keep writing this story because we know it's true,

1851
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:45,840
Speaker 2: And when are we going to just like play it out?

1852
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:48,120
Speaker 2: Why we're writing what? We don't need to write that story?

1853
01:39:48,160 --> 01:39:51,560
Speaker 2: You and I know there's lots of other stories, but fundamentally,

1854
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 2: the other story is doning serve us very well moving forward.

1855
01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:59,040
Speaker 2: So was the forward momentum and the fact that so

1856
01:39:59,600 --> 01:40:02,280
Speaker 2: to me think that's the kind of duty of fiction.

1857
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:05,000
Speaker 2: And it's where I kind of depart from people who

1858
01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:07,760
Speaker 2: think that fiction should show what life is like. You know,

1859
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:09,680
Speaker 2: it's like it's kind of shit. You'll kind of be

1860
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:13,519
Speaker 2: end up disillusioned. You know, comics will break your heart, kid,

1861
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,400
Speaker 2: and all of that's true, But that's not the truth

1862
01:40:16,439 --> 01:40:20,360
Speaker 2: because even within that, I notice that we always, we

1863
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:22,759
Speaker 2: always look for something to keep going, you know, we always,

1864
01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:26,040
Speaker 2: we always favor magic. Nihilism is beat out by magic

1865
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 2: because at the bottom we always find meaning. We even

1866
01:40:29,120 --> 01:40:33,240
Speaker 2: find meaning and nothingness. So our desire to find meaning

1867
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 2: continues to make it positive, if that makes sense. And

1868
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:40,040
Speaker 2: we always no matter what you do to people, what

1869
01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 2: you bring them down, and they'll look for meaning, They'll

1870
01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 2: keep finding a reason to tell a story, they'll keep

1871
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 2: finding something in it. And I think that ultimately is

1872
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:52,559
Speaker 2: like if we could just if we can just expand that,

1873
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:55,480
Speaker 2: if we could hold onto that little flame that Promethean

1874
01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:58,600
Speaker 2: moment and expand that, like we can make meaning with us.

1875
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 2: Magic is just making meaning. It's just like why is

1876
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:03,360
Speaker 2: it not other than why you know, why can't you

1877
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:05,080
Speaker 2: do that? Why you try it out with it? Why

1878
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:08,120
Speaker 2: they way that person five and kill them? You know

1879
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 2: anim will live? Why don't you? And it's that's all.

1880
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:14,600
Speaker 2: I'll go off and the line you know, I'm just an,

1881
01:41:15,120 --> 01:41:17,000
Speaker 2: I'm just a person just thinking about it.

1882
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully that's enough. Grant Morrison, thank you so much

1883
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:22,719
Speaker 1: for joining us.

1884
01:41:23,479 --> 01:41:25,760
Speaker 2: No, thanks, that was gay as I enjoyed the conversation.

1885
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 1: That was wonderful. Thank you so much, thanks for joining us.

1886
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:43,599
Speaker 1: Grant up next nerd Out and this week's nerd Out,

1887
01:41:43,720 --> 01:41:46,280
Speaker 1: a recurring segment where you tell us what you love

1888
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 1: and why. Sean pictures us on Final Fantasy for Free Enterprise.

1889
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:54,160
Speaker 5: My name is Sean from Phoenix. My nerd out is

1890
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 5: an open world randomizer of a thirty year old video game,

1891
01:41:57,520 --> 01:42:01,680
Speaker 5: Final Fantasy for Free Enterprise. The original Final Fantasy four,

1892
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,880
Speaker 5: released as Final Fantasy III on the Supernintendo in the US,

1893
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 5: was my introduction to JRPG's I was fascinated with the

1894
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 5: game as a kid, A high fantasy story of a

1895
01:42:11,080 --> 01:42:13,320
Speaker 5: dark knight trying to save the world and discover the

1896
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:17,520
Speaker 5: hero within himself. The original game story was wild and emotional,

1897
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:20,639
Speaker 5: but it's pretty linear. Members come and go it's at times,

1898
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:23,599
Speaker 5: and he bounce from one mission to another. The story

1899
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:26,760
Speaker 5: is about as straightforward as you can get when your

1900
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:29,600
Speaker 5: story involves a giant robot and flying a whale to

1901
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:33,519
Speaker 5: the moon. That's where Final Fantasy Iour Free Enterprise comes in.

1902
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 5: You start with the Airship Enterprise, which opens up the

1903
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:40,840
Speaker 5: entire world. Bosses, key items, treasures, and quests are randomized,

1904
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:43,800
Speaker 5: allowing for millions of options. You can hunt for the

1905
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:46,800
Speaker 5: crystal you need to defeat the final boss Aromas, or

1906
01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:49,400
Speaker 5: you can set yourself to earn it through completing objectives.

1907
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:52,080
Speaker 5: Along the way, you get to revisit the characters that

1908
01:42:52,160 --> 01:42:54,479
Speaker 5: made the game so compelling in the first place. The

1909
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 5: dark knight Cecil who knows that he must save himself

1910
01:42:57,040 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 5: to save the world, the spoony Barred Edward, the Twin

1911
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:03,960
Speaker 5: Magic users, palam and Porum, and so many more. Free

1912
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:07,160
Speaker 5: Enterprise makes quality of life improvements like the ability to

1913
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 5: toggle random encounters, but the charming sprites and art, the

1914
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:15,680
Speaker 5: Spirit and Heart, and the Killer Yuimatsu's soundtrack remain. I

1915
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 5: came from the nostalgia, but I stay for the endless

1916
01:43:18,240 --> 01:43:22,840
Speaker 5: customization and replayability. Anytime is a great time to roll

1917
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 5: yourself a seed and give it a try. But now

1918
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:28,320
Speaker 5: as a perfect time to join the community. The spring

1919
01:43:28,360 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 5: speed racing tournament, the adam And Cup, runs from early

1920
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:34,719
Speaker 5: March through May. Races are broadcast on Twitch dot tv

1921
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:38,559
Speaker 5: slash free Enterprise. All the information needed to get started

1922
01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 5: and to join one of the most inclusive communities on

1923
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 5: the Internet is at f F four f E dot com.

1924
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:48,799
Speaker 5: Thanks Jason, Thanks x ray Vision, and remember wish everyone.

1925
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:51,599
Speaker 1: Thanks for submitting Sean. If you want to be featured,

1926
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:53,639
Speaker 1: send your nerd out pitch to x ray at crooked

1927
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:56,080
Speaker 1: dot com instructions or in the show notes up next

1928
01:43:56,080 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 1: to the Endgame. Folks were in the end Game. Now

1929
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 1: and today we are ranking our top three video game

1930
01:44:10,120 --> 01:44:15,439
Speaker 1: adaptations and why we love them. Rosie, are you ready?

1931
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:17,439
Speaker 4: I'm definitely ready.

1932
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:18,639
Speaker 1: Okay, you want to go first?

1933
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:21,799
Speaker 3: Yes? My first pick is ye. Most people have probably

1934
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 3: never seen this movie, but you should go and watch

1935
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:27,639
Speaker 3: it streaming on every free streaming service. It is Double Dragon.

1936
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:31,200
Speaker 1: I love Dragon video game. I loved Double dragonar movie.

1937
01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:34,679
Speaker 3: Yes, oky but fun, one of the best, most fun

1938
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:38,800
Speaker 3: and accessible video games that also spawned like every great

1939
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 3: video game like that, Like there are so many brilliant

1940
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:44,760
Speaker 3: walk along, beat them Ups, and I love them. But yeah,

1941
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 3: the movie is so good. It stars Mark Dekaskos, who

1942
01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:50,120
Speaker 3: I love and will literally watch in any movie. He's

1943
01:44:50,160 --> 01:44:53,360
Speaker 3: also in the incredible Crying Freeman adaptation, which is a

1944
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:58,320
Speaker 3: great manga adaptation. Alyssa Milano is in it. Scott Wolf

1945
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:03,280
Speaker 3: is the is the brother of in hilarious fashion, and

1946
01:45:03,320 --> 01:45:06,679
Speaker 3: it's like it's one of the funnest things because now

1947
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:09,160
Speaker 3: it's twenty twenty two, but the movie's from the nineties

1948
01:45:09,160 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 3: and it's set in two thousand and seven when.

1949
01:45:10,880 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 7: Like an earthquake has destroyed Los Angeles and everyone's like

1950
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:19,879
Speaker 7: a post apocalyptic punk and Alisa Milano has the sickest

1951
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:21,959
Speaker 7: look she's maybe ever had in her whole.

1952
01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:24,960
Speaker 3: Career, and it is just like it's so hokey, but

1953
01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:28,200
Speaker 3: I this nineties era of video games, I actually love.

1954
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 3: It's so much fun. They weren't afraid to do weird stuff.

1955
01:45:33,120 --> 01:45:36,120
Speaker 3: This has like, this has cool. This, this does what

1956
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:38,960
Speaker 3: the Street Fighter movie doesn't, which is this actually like

1957
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:41,320
Speaker 3: leans into the supernatural of it all, which I think

1958
01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:45,360
Speaker 3: is really really fun. And yeah, this is just this

1959
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:48,479
Speaker 3: is like a great movie. Also, apparently the story was

1960
01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:51,439
Speaker 3: by Paul Deani, which is just why I know, like

1961
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:55,960
Speaker 3: unexpected Paul Dany Batman Animated series creator like one of

1962
01:45:56,040 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 3: our favors. We talked about him a lot. So yeah,

1963
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:01,040
Speaker 3: it's just it's this is a bunch of fun. This

1964
01:46:01,160 --> 01:46:02,519
Speaker 3: is like one of those things where I'm like, just

1965
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:04,240
Speaker 3: go and watch it and you will have fun. If

1966
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:06,439
Speaker 3: you think it sucks and it's badly made, you will

1967
01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:08,680
Speaker 3: still have fun watching it, but you might find it's

1968
01:46:08,760 --> 01:46:10,639
Speaker 3: like a it's like a solid B movie.

1969
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:15,920
Speaker 1: Gem M I like it. My first pick will be Injustice,

1970
01:46:15,680 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 1: the comic series and the animated comic movie streaming now

1971
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:26,400
Speaker 1: in HBO Max, which is an adaptation of the hit

1972
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:29,240
Speaker 1: video game of the same name, YEP, which is a

1973
01:46:29,320 --> 01:46:33,759
Speaker 1: beat him up, fight him up video game based around

1974
01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:38,439
Speaker 1: the idea that Superman just flips out because he's been

1975
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:45,759
Speaker 1: spoiler alert tricked into killing Slain and he goes nuts

1976
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:50,240
Speaker 1: and the heroes of Earth kind of like split along

1977
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:53,720
Speaker 1: certain lines and they have to stop them. It's for

1978
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:57,400
Speaker 1: a comic adapted from a video game.

1979
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:00,000
Speaker 3: Unbelievably good. Like everyone, it's good.

1980
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:03,400
Speaker 1: It's like it shouldn't be good, but that ran.

1981
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 3: Like shout out to Tom Taylor, who was the writer

1982
01:47:06,200 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 3: who has given that unenviable task and suddenly made that

1983
01:47:09,439 --> 01:47:13,000
Speaker 3: one of the biggest comics in the world. Like the

1984
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:16,880
Speaker 3: depth that the adaptation the video game is great. I

1985
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:20,240
Speaker 3: love Nether Realm. I love Mortal Kombat, so I love

1986
01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:23,080
Speaker 3: the the fighting styles that they use to Injustice, and

1987
01:47:23,120 --> 01:47:26,519
Speaker 3: I love the evil characters. But like to then turn

1988
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 3: that into a legitimately engaging, deep story and not just

1989
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:33,599
Speaker 3: adapt it to comics, but also adapt it to a movie,

1990
01:47:34,560 --> 01:47:35,719
Speaker 3: an animated movie.

1991
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:36,759
Speaker 4: That's just that's powerful.

1992
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:38,120
Speaker 1: What is your next?

1993
01:47:38,240 --> 01:47:40,120
Speaker 3: Okay, So my next one I actually so I'm going

1994
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:42,360
Speaker 3: to stick all I'm going to go all nineties just

1995
01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:45,280
Speaker 3: for it, because otherwise it's hard for me because I

1996
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 3: actually like a lot of a lot of video game adaptations,

1997
01:47:48,439 --> 01:47:50,320
Speaker 3: even though I would argue there hasn't been like a

1998
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:54,800
Speaker 3: truly magnificent like five Star. I agree with you, but

1999
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:56,479
Speaker 3: I actually love a lot of them. So my next

2000
01:47:56,479 --> 01:47:59,400
Speaker 3: one is going to be Street Fighter. I This one

2001
01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:04,479
Speaker 3: goes above Double Dragon, only slightly. Also nineteen ninety four,

2002
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:08,040
Speaker 3: directed by Stephen Desuza. I really love this movie. I

2003
01:48:08,080 --> 01:48:13,799
Speaker 3: rewatch it all the time. It's so funny, it's really silly.

2004
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 3: It doesn't lean enough into the supernatural. I think there's

2005
01:48:17,479 --> 01:48:20,559
Speaker 3: a it's you know, Jean claud van Dam for some

2006
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:23,720
Speaker 3: the they always do this with this, the characters they

2007
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:25,720
Speaker 3: choose to be the main characters. You're like, why would

2008
01:48:25,760 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 3: you do this? Like Kenna Layu first of all, the

2009
01:48:28,400 --> 01:48:30,120
Speaker 3: guy they cast as Ken, that is like one of

2010
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:33,200
Speaker 3: my most annoying I'm still annoyed about that casting, you know,

2011
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:36,720
Speaker 3: twenty years later. But like Ken and Ryu are comedy,

2012
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:39,439
Speaker 3: they're comedy relief. In this movie, it makes no sense,

2013
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:43,080
Speaker 3: like why would Nothing about it makes any sense, but

2014
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:47,000
Speaker 3: it is like so fun raw. Julia plays m Bison

2015
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:50,920
Speaker 3: and he is just unbelievable, and he he choose up

2016
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,320
Speaker 3: all the scenery and he did the movie because people

2017
01:48:53,360 --> 01:48:54,800
Speaker 3: were like, why would you do this movie? It was

2018
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:56,679
Speaker 3: so trash, and he did it because his kids loved

2019
01:48:56,680 --> 01:48:58,800
Speaker 3: Street Fighter and he wanted to do something his kids

2020
01:48:58,840 --> 01:49:02,679
Speaker 3: would love. And he has this like on real line

2021
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:06,799
Speaker 3: where she says to him like it's him and Chanley

2022
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:09,759
Speaker 3: and and she says she's asking him if he remembers

2023
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:12,439
Speaker 3: when he killed her family, and he's like, you know, God,

2024
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:15,360
Speaker 3: the day I graced your village was you know that

2025
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:17,360
Speaker 3: was the most important day of your life. But to

2026
01:49:17,400 --> 01:49:20,799
Speaker 3: me it was just a Thursday or something. Jesus, it's

2027
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:24,599
Speaker 3: so good and it's so fun, and you know Kylie

2028
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:27,840
Speaker 3: Minoga's in it. Also there's like a there's a yeah,

2029
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 3: Kylie Minoga's in it, as Cammie I think.

2030
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 1: So it is like, what was It's been such a

2031
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,360
Speaker 1: long time as I've seen the when I forgot what

2032
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:39,320
Speaker 1: was the excuse for this split? The John Claude van

2033
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:41,840
Speaker 1: dam split in this When when did he do the split?

2034
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:44,519
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean it happens more than once. And also

2035
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:49,519
Speaker 3: there's there's like a really famous and hilarious interview that's

2036
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:52,719
Speaker 3: been doing the rounds recently with Oh yeah, and mengnaw

2037
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:56,559
Speaker 3: Wehm plays Chanli, which is like unbelievable casting. Oh yeah,

2038
01:49:56,560 --> 01:49:58,720
Speaker 3: it's Damian Chapa who plays Ken, Like why did they

2039
01:49:58,720 --> 01:50:04,240
Speaker 3: do that? But Byron Man plays He's wonderful. But there's

2040
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:06,439
Speaker 3: a really famous interview that's going around at the moment

2041
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:09,280
Speaker 3: virally again with Stephen Desusa, the director, where he talks

2042
01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:12,040
Speaker 3: about how like Jean Claude was just like coke out

2043
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 3: of his mind the whole time, and when you watch

2044
01:50:14,520 --> 01:50:17,760
Speaker 3: the movie, like you can see it and one of

2045
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:20,120
Speaker 3: my favorites. This movie is not in my top three,

2046
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:22,720
Speaker 3: right the Street Fighter is, but Street Fighter Legend of

2047
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 3: chan Lee is not. But I will say that movie

2048
01:50:26,200 --> 01:50:29,400
Speaker 3: has an unbelievable bathroom fight scene and a very famous

2049
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 3: cocaine fueled performance by Chris Klein, so it continues the legend.

2050
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, Street Fighter nineteen ninety four another movie that

2051
01:50:36,040 --> 01:50:36,640
Speaker 3: you'll have a lot of.

2052
01:50:36,680 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 1: I love it. I am going to pick for my

2053
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:45,880
Speaker 1: second pick a recent release Arcane, Netflix's Arcane, which is

2054
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:49,559
Speaker 1: the adaptation of Lore from Legal Legend. Now, this is

2055
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:53,519
Speaker 1: very interesting in the sense that I've never played Legal Legends. Yep,

2056
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:57,679
Speaker 1: I don't know the law at all. I don't usually

2057
01:50:58,240 --> 01:51:01,120
Speaker 1: like the move in a video game adaptation, right is

2058
01:51:01,120 --> 01:51:04,639
Speaker 1: they always give you that scene that is a wink

2059
01:51:05,160 --> 01:51:08,320
Speaker 1: at like the way the game is. So for instance,

2060
01:51:08,680 --> 01:51:12,479
Speaker 1: in the episode one of Halo, when Master Chief touches

2061
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:16,280
Speaker 1: down on Madrigal and starts slogging away against the Covenant,

2062
01:51:16,520 --> 01:51:18,880
Speaker 1: there's a moment where like you go into his visor

2063
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 1: and you see the first person view of him aimings

2064
01:51:21,200 --> 01:51:24,799
Speaker 1: gun the whole thing, And if that happens in Arcane,

2065
01:51:24,920 --> 01:51:27,479
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't know. I just know

2066
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:29,120
Speaker 1: that it was great and I really enjoyed it. I

2067
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:31,400
Speaker 1: thought the art was amazing, the characters were really great.

2068
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:35,960
Speaker 1: I just really really liked it. It looked almost too

2069
01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:37,400
Speaker 1: real at times like that.

2070
01:51:37,760 --> 01:51:39,599
Speaker 3: That's a show that I think, not only is it

2071
01:51:39,600 --> 01:51:41,880
Speaker 3: like a stunning show, I've never played League of Legends either,

2072
01:51:41,880 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 3: and it's but it's like the rare adaptation. This is

2073
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 3: probably actually one of those five star if we're talking

2074
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:51,000
Speaker 3: about a video game adaptation, like it not only pushes

2075
01:51:52,200 --> 01:51:54,559
Speaker 3: the boundaries of what a video game adaptation can be,

2076
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:57,200
Speaker 3: but also the format of animation. Like you said, like

2077
01:51:57,240 --> 01:51:59,040
Speaker 3: when you're watching it, you spend so much of the

2078
01:51:59,040 --> 01:52:01,120
Speaker 3: time going how did they do that? Is it rod

2079
01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:03,880
Speaker 3: to scope? Is it two D? Is it CG? They

2080
01:52:03,960 --> 01:52:06,360
Speaker 3: use so many formats, it feels like it feels a

2081
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:08,120
Speaker 3: bit like the first time you see spider Us.

2082
01:52:08,280 --> 01:52:11,080
Speaker 1: Completely agree, it's like that there's like this hard almost

2083
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:14,280
Speaker 1: like hard edged like cell shading kind.

2084
01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:18,040
Speaker 3: Of look different line weights, and yeah, it's.

2085
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:20,080
Speaker 1: Like it's just really really cool. I love it. What's

2086
01:52:20,080 --> 01:52:20,599
Speaker 1: your next pick?

2087
01:52:20,680 --> 01:52:23,280
Speaker 3: Well, I'm absolutely really happy that you went for like

2088
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:25,760
Speaker 3: legit quality ones because I'm really going for that this

2089
01:52:25,840 --> 01:52:29,240
Speaker 3: is the triple bill of nineties classics. So my first

2090
01:52:29,240 --> 01:52:32,880
Speaker 3: one and I do legitimately love this movie is Mortal Kombat,

2091
01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:36,439
Speaker 3: which came out in nineteen ninety five, directed by Paul Anderson,

2092
01:52:36,479 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 3: who would obviously go on to do Paul W. S.

2093
01:52:38,439 --> 01:52:40,400
Speaker 3: Anderson would obviously go on to do like a lot

2094
01:52:40,439 --> 01:52:43,439
Speaker 3: of video game adaptations, but this is my favorite. I

2095
01:52:43,479 --> 01:52:45,960
Speaker 3: love this Mortal Kombat movie. It's campy as hell.

2096
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:47,200
Speaker 1: It's so gay.

2097
01:52:47,320 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 3: It is like so enjoyable, and I think that like

2098
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:54,640
Speaker 3: Robin Show as Lou Kang is like one of the

2099
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:57,439
Speaker 3: all time best castings see and the martial arts are

2100
01:52:57,439 --> 01:53:00,800
Speaker 3: actually really good. It doesn't it doesn't do well. It's

2101
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:03,479
Speaker 3: a PG, you know, PG thirteen, Isn't that always the way?

2102
01:53:03,560 --> 01:53:06,960
Speaker 3: So you don't get that brutal bloodiness of the video games,

2103
01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:09,720
Speaker 3: which Mortal Kombat is probably my favorite video game of

2104
01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:13,360
Speaker 3: all time. So, but there's just something about this movie

2105
01:53:13,400 --> 01:53:16,880
Speaker 3: that I love. This soundtrack is full of unbelievable bangers,

2106
01:53:16,920 --> 01:53:20,719
Speaker 3: Like it's so good, and it has every great character

2107
01:53:20,960 --> 01:53:24,080
Speaker 3: you know, it has oh yeah, carry hiroy Key Togawa

2108
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:27,760
Speaker 3: as a shangsung and that's such popular casting that they

2109
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:29,880
Speaker 3: actually bought him back for one of the video games

2110
01:53:29,960 --> 01:53:34,320
Speaker 3: recently because it was like so iconic Annah. And I also,

2111
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:37,360
Speaker 3: I would say I also did enjoy I think this

2112
01:53:37,439 --> 01:53:38,960
Speaker 3: is this was on Netflix, but I think it's on

2113
01:53:39,040 --> 01:53:41,240
Speaker 3: HBO Max now. And I did enjoy the new Mortal

2114
01:53:41,280 --> 01:53:43,400
Speaker 3: Kombat if you want a more R rated one. Also

2115
01:53:43,560 --> 01:53:47,559
Speaker 3: another great lu Can casting there. And yeah, I just

2116
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:50,160
Speaker 3: I love Mortal Kombat. And this movie is like probably

2117
01:53:50,160 --> 01:53:52,360
Speaker 3: one of my most rewatched movies because it's just so

2118
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:52,960
Speaker 3: much fun.

2119
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:54,080
Speaker 4: What's your number one?

2120
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:58,200
Speaker 1: Oh god, So this is a cheat and I don't care.

2121
01:53:58,360 --> 01:54:01,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. And with a caveat of this

2122
01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:03,760
Speaker 1: movie came out in nineteen eighty four, so it might

2123
01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:06,040
Speaker 1: be problematic now, and I haven't seen it since I

2124
01:54:06,120 --> 01:54:08,200
Speaker 1: was for a long time. I've seen it since I

2125
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:09,800
Speaker 1: was a kid. But as a kid, I loved it.

2126
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:15,639
Speaker 1: So if it's problematic now, apologies, all apologies. The Last

2127
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:17,960
Speaker 1: Starfighter from nineteen eighty four. Now here's the thing about

2128
01:54:17,960 --> 01:54:20,320
Speaker 1: The Last Starfighter. It's not really a video game adaptation.

2129
01:54:20,439 --> 01:54:23,200
Speaker 1: It's a it's a story about a kid. It's a

2130
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:29,400
Speaker 1: story about an alien, a genocidal alien war where the

2131
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:35,080
Speaker 1: very very very hail Mary last option of this dying

2132
01:54:35,680 --> 01:54:38,760
Speaker 1: up against the wall alien civilization that's about to be

2133
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:43,080
Speaker 1: wiped out is to create a video game and send

2134
01:54:43,120 --> 01:54:47,160
Speaker 1: it to I guess like all the inhabited planets of

2135
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:51,800
Speaker 1: the galaxy, but in particular Earth, and that video game

2136
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:57,880
Speaker 1: will like search for talented fighter pilots and if they

2137
01:54:58,040 --> 01:55:01,160
Speaker 1: are good enough, if they beat the game, that means

2138
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:04,240
Speaker 1: they are skilled enough, and they will then be picked

2139
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:08,320
Speaker 1: up by a Starfighter like this unique, very very last

2140
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,440
Speaker 1: high tech, super top secret Starfighter the last hope of

2141
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:16,480
Speaker 1: this alien civilization to defeat the enemies. And it was

2142
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:19,440
Speaker 1: it was like it's super fun, like you know, as

2143
01:55:19,480 --> 01:55:22,520
Speaker 1: a kid, it was like any kind of story that

2144
01:55:22,680 --> 01:55:25,520
Speaker 1: was like actually, like if you get good enough at

2145
01:55:25,560 --> 01:55:29,680
Speaker 1: video games, it's actually really good, Like it's actually beneficial.

2146
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:29,600
Speaker 4: For your life.

2147
01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:33,840
Speaker 1: How about if you save not even just your world,

2148
01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:37,360
Speaker 1: but the galaxy other planets. I was like, I'm all

2149
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:41,800
Speaker 1: the way in, so the Last Starfighter, I'm I'm I

2150
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:44,120
Speaker 1: thought about The Last Starfighter like a couple of weeks

2151
01:55:44,120 --> 01:55:47,040
Speaker 1: ago because it seemed like one of those properties that

2152
01:55:47,080 --> 01:55:49,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, they haven't rebooted this yet, Like they

2153
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:52,760
Speaker 1: haven't figured out a way to make this ten episodes

2154
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:55,080
Speaker 1: of a TV show, or they haven't figured out how

2155
01:55:55,120 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: to just like make the movie again and release it

2156
01:55:57,080 --> 01:56:00,520
Speaker 1: on Disney Plus. Wow, I'm really surprised at that. So

2157
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:03,600
Speaker 1: the Last Starfighter, I don't know if it's problematic again,

2158
01:56:03,640 --> 01:56:05,200
Speaker 1: it came out in nineteen eighty four. It might be,

2159
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:08,480
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, but the Last Starfighter that's gonna be

2160
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:09,600
Speaker 1: it because I just loved it.

2161
01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:11,640
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna do I. I want to do a

2162
01:56:11,640 --> 01:56:14,120
Speaker 3: special mention then, because my other one, if we were

2163
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:17,280
Speaker 3: doing it like movies, it would be Tron. That's like,

2164
01:56:17,480 --> 01:56:20,840
Speaker 3: I love the original Tron. That was such a revolutionary

2165
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:23,520
Speaker 3: movie for me. So shout out to Tron. Love that

2166
01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:24,480
Speaker 3: weird old movie.

2167
01:56:24,760 --> 01:56:26,920
Speaker 1: That's it for the Endgame. Let us know what you

2168
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:29,600
Speaker 1: think and use hashtag xrvia Endgame to give us your pick.

2169
01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:35,520
Speaker 1: Huge thanks to Grant Morrison, Rosie, thanks again for joining us.

2170
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:38,920
Speaker 1: It's been a delight anything to plug plug it again,

2171
01:56:39,040 --> 01:56:40,280
Speaker 1: plug the comic book again.

2172
01:56:40,440 --> 01:56:43,360
Speaker 6: Yes, I am writing a Godzilla comic with Oliver oh No,

2173
01:56:43,440 --> 01:56:46,240
Speaker 6: the incredible artist who is doing the inks and the

2174
01:56:46,280 --> 01:56:49,040
Speaker 6: colors and the pencils and everything. I'm sure the letter

2175
01:56:49,160 --> 01:56:51,440
Speaker 6: will also be amazing and I will shout them out

2176
01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:52,440
Speaker 6: when I find out their name.

2177
01:56:53,120 --> 01:56:55,560
Speaker 3: That is my plug. You can find me Rosie Marks

2178
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:58,840
Speaker 3: on Instagram. Also on letterbox where you can see all

2179
01:56:58,840 --> 01:57:01,160
Speaker 3: the bad movies that I I watched a lot of

2180
01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:02,080
Speaker 3: bad movies in.

2181
01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:05,360
Speaker 4: The hotel at Austin. So that was, Oh my god.

2182
01:57:05,960 --> 01:57:09,120
Speaker 3: They wish they showed die Hard or No Live Free

2183
01:57:09,200 --> 01:57:11,200
Speaker 3: or die Hard. They showed it like five times into

2184
01:57:13,240 --> 01:57:15,280
Speaker 3: and that was actually quite fun. And justin Long and

2185
01:57:15,320 --> 01:57:17,720
Speaker 3: Mary Elizabeth Winstead, who I love, who's also in another

2186
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:21,240
Speaker 3: great video game, non video game movie, Scott Pilgrim. I

2187
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:23,520
Speaker 3: also watched that Peter.

2188
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:26,040
Speaker 6: Jackson King Kong movie on the morning when I was packing,

2189
01:57:26,120 --> 01:57:29,520
Speaker 6: and that is a wild movie.

2190
01:57:30,840 --> 01:57:32,720
Speaker 3: That's very problematic, and it's from.

2191
01:57:32,560 --> 01:57:35,080
Speaker 1: Like the Zai opening. Let me just say the opening

2192
01:57:35,120 --> 01:57:37,360
Speaker 1: of that movie. You're like, can we do this?

2193
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:40,480
Speaker 3: Like is this okay? It happens a lot in that movie.

2194
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:43,080
Speaker 3: I was like, wow, I'm I'm like, I'm surprised they

2195
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:44,960
Speaker 3: haven't edited this show yet, but.

2196
01:57:45,400 --> 01:57:46,840
Speaker 1: Like, is this okay?

2197
01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that is wild, But Adrian Brody give him

2198
01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:51,960
Speaker 3: some more romantic leads. The other thing I will plug.

2199
01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:55,760
Speaker 3: It's not me, but it is our co host, superstar

2200
01:57:56,000 --> 01:57:59,440
Speaker 3: Cody Ziggler. He has a new comic coming out, Spider

2201
01:57:59,480 --> 01:58:03,040
Speaker 3: Punk Number by Cody Zikla. It's out April six. That's amazing.

2202
01:58:03,080 --> 01:58:05,760
Speaker 3: He teams up with this brilliant es called Justin Mason,

2203
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:10,520
Speaker 3: this unbelievable colorist Jim Chara Lampitas who is just adds

2204
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:13,280
Speaker 3: so much vibrancy, and Travis Lanham is the latter and

2205
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:17,000
Speaker 3: those las like that's probably the best use of lettering

2206
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:18,600
Speaker 3: I've seen in a comaic for a long time. So

2207
01:58:18,760 --> 01:58:22,960
Speaker 3: just good, good stuff. That's gonna be a big one.

2208
01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:26,840
Speaker 1: Well, folks. If you want to learn more about what

2209
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:28,800
Speaker 1: we explore in each episode, check out our listeners guide

2210
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:30,560
Speaker 1: to all things x Revision in the show notes or

2211
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:34,520
Speaker 1: on our website. Catch the next episode not this is

2212
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:37,640
Speaker 1: Legit No April Fools on April first, and again send

2213
01:58:37,680 --> 01:58:40,560
Speaker 1: your nerd out submissions to x ray atcrookad dot com.

2214
01:58:40,800 --> 01:58:43,880
Speaker 1: Also check out our videos on the own Cultured YouTube channel.

2215
01:58:43,960 --> 01:58:48,000
Speaker 1: Last week, Rosie did a really, really unbelievable and incredible

2216
01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 1: and well worth your time video on the impact of

2217
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:53,400
Speaker 1: Glynn Barley and Richmond Lewis to women that helped create

2218
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:56,640
Speaker 1: a unique visual style of Batman in the Dark Knight

2219
01:58:56,640 --> 01:59:00,640
Speaker 1: Returns and Batman You're One and Don't Forget Star ratings

2220
01:59:00,640 --> 01:59:03,120
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast, rate us with the five

2221
01:59:03,200 --> 01:59:07,720
Speaker 1: star ratings on Apple Podcasts on wherever it is. X

2222
01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:09,800
Speaker 1: ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is

2223
01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:12,840
Speaker 1: produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. It is executive

2224
01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:16,640
Speaker 1: produced by myself and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Ruston and Carlton

2225
01:59:16,640 --> 01:59:19,480
Speaker 1: Gillespie are our consulting producers, and our editing and sound

2226
01:59:19,480 --> 01:59:23,040
Speaker 1: design is by Vasili's Photopoulos. Thank you to Brian Basquez

2227
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:25,000
Speaker 1: for our theme music. See you next time.