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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, October fifteenth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: LA He's in New York, and Vrighty has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: in our cover story segment, we'll talk with Adam b

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Speaker 1: Veri and Kate Arthur about their report on the final

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Speaker 1: season of Stranger Things and the twin brothers who are

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Speaker 1: the brains behind the show, Matt and Ross Stuffer. And

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Speaker 1: then we'll hear some of my personal highlights from day

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Speaker 1: three at MIPCOM. The Global Content Market is wrapping up

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Speaker 1: on Thursday in can France. This is the one where

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Speaker 1: I encounter an extremely charming French YouTube creator who is

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Speaker 1: gracious about my inability to pronounce his online name. But

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Speaker 1: before we get to that, here are a few headlines

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Speaker 1: just in this morning that you need to know. MGM

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Speaker 1: Plus has greenlighted a Bosch prequel series to star Cameron

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Speaker 1: Monnigan and Omari Hardwick. It's called Start of Watch and

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Speaker 1: it hails from Bosch series veterans Tom Bernardo and Brian Anthony.

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Speaker 1: This has been out there for a while, but now

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Speaker 1: it's official. Josh Goldstein is the new head of marketing

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Speaker 1: for Paramount Pictures. The musical chairs among studio and network

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Speaker 1: marketing executives continues, get ready to revisit Conan O'Brien's TBS

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Speaker 1: late night series. Radial Entertainment has acquired streaming rights to

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Speaker 1: all eleven seasons of Conan, which ran from twenty eleven

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Speaker 1: to twenty twenty one. Radial is the parent company of

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Speaker 1: Industry Banners, Film Rise, and Shout Factory. All of these

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Speaker 1: stories and so much more can be found on Variety

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Speaker 1: dot com Right now. Now, we turn to conversations with

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Speaker 1: Variety journalists about news and trends in show business. In

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Speaker 1: our cover story segment, we'll go deep inside the upside

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Speaker 1: down for our preview of the final season of Stranger Things.

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Speaker 1: Adam b Very, Variety's senior entertainment writer, and Kate Arthur,

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Speaker 1: Variety's editor at large, have chased this story for three years.

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Speaker 1: Here they give us some behind the scenes color on

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Speaker 1: their time on the set and their time spent with

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Speaker 1: the Duffers, Adam b Veri and Kate Arthur. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining me.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, thanks for having us.

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Speaker 1: You two are our Stranger Things dream team. You have

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Speaker 1: been working on an epic project, taking the measure of

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Speaker 1: Stranger Things and all of its five seasons, but particularly

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Speaker 1: its final season. You've had incredible access to the Duffer brothers,

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Speaker 1: the creators, the showrunners, all kinds of access to the production,

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Speaker 1: the cast. And congratulations because it's been a long time

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Speaker 1: coming and you were at the finish line. It's this

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Speaker 1: week's Variety cover story. You must feel like athletes at

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Speaker 1: the end of a long race.

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Speaker 2: It does feel like we finished a marathon. Kate had

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Speaker 2: been starting to get this story into the pages of

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Speaker 2: Variety three years ago with the end of the fourth

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Speaker 2: season of Stranger Things, and then I visited the set

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Speaker 2: of season five in July of twenty twenty four, so

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Speaker 2: over a year ago, and so it's been one of

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Speaker 2: the longest tales on of this magnitude that I've ever done.

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Speaker 3: It feels fantastic. As Adam said, I began trying to

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Speaker 3: book this cover more than three years ago, after I

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Speaker 3: had interviewed the interviewed the Duffer brothers, and I said

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Speaker 3: to their publicist it would be great if we got

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Speaker 3: the first cover for the final season, and then there

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Speaker 3: was a strike that delayed things. There were many obstacles,

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Speaker 3: and it was about, I don't know, Adam, maybe eight

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Speaker 3: months ago that we started to realize when as we

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Speaker 3: were planning everything with Netflix, that yes, we were actually

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Speaker 3: going to be the first cover about the final season

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Speaker 3: of Stranger Things, which we did not did not solidify

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Speaker 3: in our minds until very late in the process.

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Speaker 1: That is a coup. Hard work is rewarded. The story

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Speaker 1: that you two have co bylined is rich with detail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was there for two days in Atlanta. They

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Speaker 2: had taken over basically an entire sound stage complex of

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Speaker 2: something like thirty five acres sixteen plus stages. It was

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Speaker 2: quite elaborate. This set was particularly pleasurable to be on.

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Speaker 2: I've been on a number of sets and you can

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Speaker 2: tell just sort of by the stress level and anxiety level.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of like vibrating off of people, how it's operating,

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Speaker 2: how people are feeling, how it's being led for the

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Speaker 2: pressure that they were all feeling to make sure that

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Speaker 2: this final season lived up to everyone's expectations, and they

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Speaker 2: all spoke very openly about that. I have to say

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Speaker 2: it was a very easy going, very chill and fun set.

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Speaker 2: The scene I was mostly therefore was a scene involving

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Speaker 2: Millie Bobby Brown's character eleven in the fourth episode of

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Speaker 2: the series. It was made clear to me that Milly

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Speaker 2: didn't want to do any interviews while I was visiting

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Speaker 2: the set, but she still was very loose and had

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Speaker 2: a really great rapport with Matt and Ross Stuffer. So

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Speaker 2: it was just a very chill, familial, very warm environment

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Speaker 2: to be on.

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Speaker 1: That's impressive on a number of levels, especially because they

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Speaker 1: really hadn't had a lot of television experience. Kate, what

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Speaker 1: have you observed about the brothers and that brotherly relationship.

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Speaker 1: Have you observed anything significant about the fact that their

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Speaker 1: siblings that contributing to how they run the show or

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Speaker 1: how they've conceived the Stranger Things universe.

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Speaker 3: Well, we spoke with Sean Levy, who is an executive

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Speaker 3: producer and director of Stranger Things, who was the one

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Speaker 3: who originally championed them through his company twenty one Laps

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Speaker 3: to Netflix. He read the pilot, he was blown away.

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Speaker 3: He felt like he'd never read anything like it before,

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Speaker 3: and at the time his company wasn't producing TV at all,

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Speaker 3: they were doing only film. But he said he could

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Speaker 3: not believe how creative it was, how original it was.

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Speaker 3: And then he met with them, and he said that

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Speaker 3: he couldn't believe the contrast between the confidence of their

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Speaker 3: writing and their shy presentation. If you watch Stranger Things,

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Speaker 3: the hive mind is a theme of the show, and

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Speaker 3: he said, the Upper Brothers are the og high Mind.

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Speaker 3: And obviously there are different people, but they function really

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Speaker 3: as a single unit.

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Speaker 2: They use the pronoun we way more than they use

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Speaker 2: the pronoun i. At one point in one of our

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Speaker 2: many interviews with them, I asked how often are they apart?

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Speaker 2: And the look of panic that came over Matt Duffer's

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Speaker 2: face at the idea of having to be a part

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Speaker 2: was telling in and of itself. He said that they're very,

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Speaker 2: very rarely apart when they're working professionally, almost never. As

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Speaker 2: Sean Leavy said, it's a bubble of twin ship that

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Speaker 2: can only exist between the two of them. You can

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Speaker 2: know them very well, but there's something between the two

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Speaker 2: of them that just is its own thing that no

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Speaker 2: one's going to be able to get between.

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Speaker 1: Now that Stranger Things is ending of the Duffer brothers

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Speaker 1: are turning their focus to feature films. They signed a

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Speaker 1: big money deal with Paramount. Their timing was incredible because

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Speaker 1: that deal was in the market just as Paramount needed

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Speaker 1: to make a point about their willing this to write

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Speaker 1: some checks. So that was kismet for the Duffers. What

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Speaker 1: do you think they want to do in film?

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Speaker 3: They consider themselves first and foremost movie nerds. When they

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Speaker 3: were growing up in Durham, North Carolina, they would make

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Speaker 3: little movies with their friends, and they went to film

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Speaker 3: school to make movies, and they kind of fell into

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Speaker 3: making one of the biggest shows of all time. And

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Speaker 3: they've loved it, of course, but the whole time they

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Speaker 3: have wondered when they would start being able to make

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Speaker 3: a movie. And they told us that as they were

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Speaker 3: talking about what they wanted to do next. As season

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Speaker 3: five came together, everything was on the table, of course,

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Speaker 3: and they were like, we don't want to create and

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Speaker 3: run another show. What we want to do is make

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Speaker 3: a movie that comes out into theaters. And even though

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Speaker 3: they've had a great relationship with Netflix for ten years,

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Speaker 3: that's just not what Netflix does. So when Paramount approached

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Speaker 3: them right after the company the merger went through and

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Speaker 3: Skydance bought Paramount, they were very open to that. They

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Speaker 3: also say they have no idea what that will be.

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Speaker 3: They can only focus on one thing at a time,

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Speaker 3: and right now that thing is Stranger Things.

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Speaker 2: Why I should add that they started Stranger Things at

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Speaker 2: the first crest of the streaming boom. The show was

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Speaker 2: bought in the spring of twenty fifteen, and this is

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Speaker 2: when Netflix had barely become what we know it today.

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Speaker 2: In fact, as we say in our story, Stranger Things

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Speaker 2: was really the first show to show Netflix what it

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Speaker 2: could actually be beyond just like an upstart streamer, it

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Speaker 2: could be a cultural force.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Stranger Things showed that they could play on

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Speaker 1: a new global level. It crystallized the potential to have

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Speaker 1: a truly global hit for the first time. Adam remind

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Speaker 1: us what the rollout plan for season five is.

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Speaker 2: As has been the case with Netflix lately, instead of

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Speaker 2: doing a full binge, they're splitting it up over three releases.

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Speaker 2: So the first four episodes it will premiere on November

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Speaker 2: twenty sixth, over the Thanksgiving holiday, then the next three

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Speaker 2: so episodes five, six, and seven will premiere at Christmas,

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Speaker 2: and the series finale will premiere a week later on

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Speaker 2: New Year's Eve. When I visited the set last year,

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Speaker 2: they knew that they were going to be splitting it

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Speaker 2: in half. Since that visit, Netflix decided to move the

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Speaker 2: finale a week and the Duffers were really excited about

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Speaker 2: that idea because it meant that everyone could watch the

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Speaker 2: finale sort of together at the same time. There wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be people racing through the first three episodes to get

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Speaker 2: to the finale, that they could watch the first three episodes,

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Speaker 2: digest them, and then pretty much everyone would be watching

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Speaker 2: the final episode all the same time, which is is

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Speaker 2: an experience that Netflix subscribers base don't get with the

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Speaker 2: end of a show.

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Speaker 1: My last question for both of you, since you know

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Speaker 1: them and have spent time with them, can you tell

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Speaker 1: Matt from Ross without any help? Can you identify the

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Speaker 1: two brothers?

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Speaker 3: I want to take this one. I am so proud that,

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Speaker 3: at least in their current incarnation, I can absolutely tell

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Speaker 3: them apart now, and not only can I tell them

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Speaker 3: apart in their looks, having now listened to and transcribed

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Speaker 3: many interviews with them. At this point, I can hear

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Speaker 3: the difference between them, and I can't tell you how

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Speaker 3: I feel about that. I feel like, if anything, I

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Speaker 3: have accomplished something in that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, their personalities are different. Matt is much chattier, He's

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Speaker 2: much more sort of open and gregarious. Ross is quieter,

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Speaker 2: more introspective. They also vibrated slightly different frequencies. Matt is

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Speaker 2: more sort of anxious and excited, Rassage a little bit

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Speaker 2: more chill. These are gradiations, I asked.

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Speaker 3: I asked Maya Hawk, who plays Robin on the show,

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Speaker 3: how long it took her to be able to tell

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Speaker 3: them apart? And she said, I will not answer that question. No,

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Speaker 3: I won't, and in the way I will answer that

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Speaker 3: question is I will not answer. And then she said,

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Speaker 3: which probably means it took me way too long. So

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Speaker 3: but now she and then she went on to say

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Speaker 3: that now that she can tell them apart, she finds

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Speaker 3: them to be very different from each other and distinctive.

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Speaker 1: That's fun. Well, again, these stories where you report over

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Speaker 1: the long term, they really require discipline. I can't wait

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Speaker 1: for people to read it. In the October fifteenth print

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Speaker 1: edition of Variety, as well as on Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for your time.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having us, Cynthia.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: Now let's call this one a reporter's notebook segment. I've

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Speaker 1: been in conference mode all week, bouncing around the palais

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Speaker 1: and walking up and down the cossette, shaking hands, moderating panels,

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Speaker 1: and talking to people about the business. According to mipcom's organizers,

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Speaker 1: about ten thousand, six hundred people attended the event This year.

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Speaker 1: There was a huge emphasis on the creator economy. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: MIPCOM made a point to highlight the convergence of creators

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Speaker 1: working with more high end TV, film and streaming platforms.

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Speaker 1: It was all a heady mix. We'll talk much more

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Speaker 1: about that in tomorrow's episode when I'm joined by my

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Speaker 1: three colleagues Elsicus Lassi, John Hopewell, and Leo Baraclough to

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Speaker 1: chop it up in round table fashion about all that

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Speaker 1: we've learned this week. On Wednesday, I got an interesting

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Speaker 1: lesson in the contours of the creator economy by moderating

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Speaker 1: a panel with Webedia, CEO, Christian Bombren, and the French

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Speaker 1: creator that I mentioned in the introduction to this episode.

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Speaker 1: That creator's name is Ainez Benezous. He's a twenty three

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Speaker 1: year old from the suburbs of Paris who goes by

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Speaker 1: the online handle enox tag. He started his online journey

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Speaker 1: as a seventeen year old gaming enthusiast. Now he's one

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Speaker 1: of France's biggest celebrities among people under forty. Webedia is

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Speaker 1: a company that represents creators and influencers, and it also

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Speaker 1: partners with them to elevate the quality of their productions,

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Speaker 1: publish books, and much more. Enox, as he's known, last

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Speaker 1: year mounted an elaborate and successful effort to scale Mount Everest.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the whole thing was filmed for his content pipeline.

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Speaker 1: The two and a half hour YouTube documentary that he

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Speaker 1: and Webedia produced was such a hit that it was

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Speaker 1: released in French movie theaters last year. Titled Kaizen, It

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Speaker 1: has forty six million views to date on YouTube. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't resist asking Enox some questions backstage as we waited

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Speaker 1: for the session to see start. I never get tired

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Speaker 1: of talking to people about their media consumption habits these days.

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Speaker 1: You told me you're very interested in movies. What are

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Speaker 1: some of your favorite movies? What are some of the

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Speaker 1: people in the movie world that you follow.

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Speaker 4: Now, Okay, I'm not a good English or I don't

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Speaker 4: know all the name in English, but Textella of Nolanda

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Speaker 4: it's my favorite one. I like metrics. I like the

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Speaker 4: sixth sense, you know, the substance I like, yeah, and

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Speaker 4: I like the substance. I think it was one.

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Speaker 1: Year agomore I like so much.

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Speaker 4: And June what other I saw yesterday? La Pampa. It's

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Speaker 4: a French movie, really cool. And I like all the

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Speaker 4: Nolan films, like The Prestige. The Prestige. There is like

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Speaker 4: old plot twist movie like Chateau Land. I like to

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Speaker 4: to DiCaprio, Yeah, yeah, DiCaprio, Brad Pitt with the Seven

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Speaker 4: Fight Abs. I would like to go in cinema, but

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Speaker 4: I have not deliver right now. I need to. It's

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Speaker 4: it's a hard art. I want to be ready for

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Speaker 4: that and don't take the place of real actor.

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Speaker 1: My last question for you is when you read news entertainment,

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Speaker 1: when you're looking at news about whether sports or gaming

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Speaker 1: or whatever, what where do you like to read your news?

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Speaker 1: Is it social media?

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Speaker 2: Do you read LeMond?

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Speaker 1: Where do you get your news?

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Speaker 4: I get my news of my family or my friends sometimes,

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Speaker 4: but most of times it's on the phone on the

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Speaker 4: social media. I try to follow go social media because

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Speaker 4: we need to be careful with the social media because

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Speaker 4: there is a lot of falst information or it can

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Speaker 4: be dangerous because there is like on social media, So

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Speaker 4: you need to be really really careful about what you read,

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Speaker 4: and you need always to ask people, to talk with people,

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Speaker 4: to do debates, to always ask at someone else and

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Speaker 4: not take the information and say, okay, it's like that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for docu series Knife Edge. Chasing Michelin Stars

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Speaker 1: is an interesting look at the cutthroat stakes of the

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Speaker 1: tippy top of the fine dining world. Maybe it's because

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Speaker 1: I've been in France all week, but I found it

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Speaker 1: very compelling viewing. The series is rolling out now on

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Speaker 1: Apple TV. The Simon Weisenthal Center will bestow its Humanitarian

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Speaker 1: Award to Warner Brothers Discovery CEO David Zaslov on October thirtieth.

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Speaker 1: Ann Chief political correspondent Donna Bash will also be honored

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Speaker 1: at the event in Beverly Hills. Before we go, congrats

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Speaker 1: to Rina Ayer, who has been named Senior Vice President

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Speaker 1: of Content and Talent Partnerships for Red Seat Ventures. That's

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Speaker 1: a digital media development firm that was acquired by Fox

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Speaker 1: in February. Ayer previously worked for Serious XM and Audible,

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Speaker 1: and she is a veteran of the US Air Force.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. This episode was written and reported by

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Speaker 1: me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Adam b Very and

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Speaker 1: Kate Arthur Stick Snick's hick Picks. Please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review at the podcast platform of your choice, and please

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Speaker 1: tune in tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety. Bun

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Speaker 1: Gurnee