WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 202 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:05.480 Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.559 to let you know this is a compilation episode. So 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.320 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:16.239 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.440 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.000 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.480 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.680 Recording in progress. Okay, check this out now. I have 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:36.040 always been amazed by when I take a second to 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:40.960 actually tap into like my actual network of just friends. 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:42.600 You know, you have friends in categories. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.760 You have to say it like it's just like this, yeah, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.840 you always like you just don't really picture those things 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.239 colliding or when like your friends like meet each other 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:54.320 and turns out they know each other. 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.360 It's the weirdest thing anyway for me and my like. 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:04.240 Podcast activists, you know activism world, you know a lot 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.120 of times overlast with the hip hop world because you know, 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:07.800 we believe with a lot of same stuff. But like 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.880 this one like really happened where I was just like 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.040 in my own network somebody I've known for a while 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.640 who I'm just now learning your name is Tristan. 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.200 Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know your name was Jason. Yeah, exactly. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.360 You know what I'm saying. That's how wrap works. So 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.240 introduce yourself however you want to be introduced. Yeah, you know, 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:28.640 and then let's let's get into it. 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.319 Hey, everybody, I'm a Tangent Wiggy aka Tristan Hacker. I 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:34.720 got a lot of other names too, but I'll keep 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.440 it to those for now. And I'm from sam Barnardino 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.720 and I'm an artist in the community with the with 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.360 propaganda as well as a state employee. I paid disability 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.400 claims for the state of California. And in my role 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.840 as a state employee, I am a union rep. And 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.480 I'm an elected member of my union's executive board. So 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.360 I represent state employees from Ontario Region, the Sam Bonardino 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.320 region and in between. And I'm on the bargaining team, 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.240 so I go up to second MENTO and help prepare 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.240 for bargaining against Governor newsm of his team as well. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:04.040 Words. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.760 So this is like we're this is frontline energy, okay, 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.639 which I love about it because it's like like you said, 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:15.480 like your your day job is. In some ways it's 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.799 it's so crazy because it's like as far away as 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.240 that is from the actual like worker per se like 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:28.480 you have just this parasocial, like intimate relationship with everybody 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.880 that works for the state because like you seeing you know, 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.040 I'm saying what they're going through and how great it 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.320 is to think inside of such a hero a bureaucracy, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.720 there's somebody there that's like, no, I'm actually like fighting 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:40.160 for y'all. 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.679 Yeah, I appreciate that word. So first of all, tell 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:44.560 them what the union is. 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:45.840 Which union were talking about? 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.120 Yeah, S isn't sam e is in everybody I is 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:53.480 an incredible you as in Union Service Employees International Union, 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.560 but one thousand, right, So s EIU is one of 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.480 the biggest international unions in the world. And and everyone 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.400 out there has probably seen the purple purple SEIU stuff 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.680 on all kinds of stuff, from nurses to state workers 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.880 to in home support services workers and home care nurses. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:10.840 And there's a. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.280 Lot of different people that are under SEIU. More broadly, 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.799 state employees in California are SEIU one thousand, So we're 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.919 Local one thousand, and that's the broader union that I'm a. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:21.079 Part of all of Cali. 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.160 Okay, you know, all all hundred thousands state employees that 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:24.799 are represented. 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:25.200 Damn. 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:29.680 Okay, and but I am elected to the executive board 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.239 of DLC seven O four, which is the Inland Empire, 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.640 well the Ontario Samarrardino part of the Inland Empire's chapter. 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.600 Where Ontario Samarandino. Okay, this is going to be very 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.600 Cali specific. Like obviously this everybody here who listens ain't 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:46.440 from here. So like I've I've cracked many LA and 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.640 I E jokes and just like you know throughout throughout 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:50.160 our time. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:50.880 You know what I'm saying. 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.360 I like to say that I have an IE passport 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.200 stamped like I have my. 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.680 I worked in Pomona. See I didn't, I never lived there. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.160 Okay, but you mean what I'm saying. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.120 So my strong connection to Pomona as far as I've 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:04.200 seen I've seen you. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.720 You absolutely That's what I mean. Like I'm a naturalized citizen. 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:09.640 I got a green card. I got an I E 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.880 Green card because like I worked at Pomona. You know, 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.480 foundation was in Pomona. My condemn Lights was in Pomona. 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.880 For y'all listeners, these are like the hip hop and 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.080 poetry spots that I kind of grew up there because 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:21.760 since I'm you know, born in South Central, but I'm 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.120 from the six to six, so you come me coming 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:28.080 from La Penteve Linda Pomono was just so much more 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.799 closer than La Merk Park, you know what I'm saying. 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:33.040 So yeah, so I. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:34.599 Ended up just kind of like spending a lot of 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:35.120 time there. 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.359 And then for high school, I got I got busted 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.600 to the Inland Empire, so I got bussed. I went 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.360 to school out of district because my parents split up. 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:42.880 It's a long story, but anyway. 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:44.080 It happens a lot. Yeah. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:45.880 So that being said, like I have a lot of 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.000 love for the Inland Empire and spent a lot of 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:50.720 time there, you know what I'm saying. So that's what 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:52.200 I was like, I got, I got a visa, I 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:53.159 got a I E visa. 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:54.600 Yeah absolutely, yeah. 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.560 But that being said, what would you say, I mean, 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.159 if it's kind of like I'm kind of springing this 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:01.800 one on you, but like what would you say would 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:06.600 be something that's like unique, a unique thing that someone 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.280 from where you guys are at, like a service worker 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.640 where you guys are at, it might be a unique 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:17.240 issue that's specific to them that wouldn't be somewhere else. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.400 I'll do two because I feel like I need two 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:21.600 to kind of to answer it. Well. 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.680 One is that the Inland Empire in Highland, which is 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.359 a city kind of a little connected city to Sam Maerdino, 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:33.479 Highland has patent state hospital which is basically Arkham Asylum. 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.320 You know, it's basically Arkham Asylum from the Batman comics, 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:40.560 which is it's a hospital for the criminally insane. Okay, yeah, 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.480 you know it's like like in other words, like you've 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.000 committed crimes, but you have mental health issues. Yeah, so 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:46.600 you're not in the regular prison, but you're not in 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.479 the regular mental hospital. You are in the prison for 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:54.200 the mental papers. And it's a massive twenty four hour facility. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.480 And I feel like, even though I work for DED 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.560 doing disability claims, because I'm in a regional chapter with 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.280 the past in state hospital folks, they get a lot 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.440 of the attention of what the union organization does because 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.120 twenty four hour facilities are very, very taxing, and they're 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.159 very right for abuse and for people to go through 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.760 really difficult things work. And then the second thing I 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.080 would say would be the fact that where we are, 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.680 we have a lot of we service a lot that 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.360 maybe more of my job, right, we service a lot 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.640 of undocumented people, Like a lot of the disability claims 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.120 I pay for the state I paid undocumented folks. So 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:27.760 which is one reason that the eye stuff has been 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.400 hitting so close to home. And also people may now 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.000 realize that California doesn't regulate about documented status the way 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.400 that the federal government does. Right, so, as long as 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.400 you could prove your wages to the State of California 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:40.760 in a legit, straight paper work kind of way, we 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:41.960 don't care that you're undocumented. 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:43.600 We're going to pay you because you're a worker and 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:44.520 you need our services. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.520 Facts, And like, I love that you said that, because 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.320 when they talk about like how the undocumented don't pay taxes, 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:51.719 I'm like, yes they. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.600 Do, Yes, they do, Yes, they do, Yes, they pay 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:54.960 a lot. 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.400 Yeah, if you can think of just off the head, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.599 Like obviously over the years, the negotiations, different things that 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.680 have come up varied over time. We'll get to the 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.520 ice raids, because that's obviously where everything got super ratchet up, 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.520 ratcheted up, But like what was some of the most 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.000 like I don't like, I don't know how would I 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.720 phrase this where you were like, this is the most 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.600 reasonable request we can ask for, Like this is just 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.440 like I don't this is so I don't understand why 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.080 this is so hard for y'all. Like this is incredibly 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.280 I just want to like calibrate because a lot of 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.680 times people here, they here to wear a union. They 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:30.720 got all these pictures about what the things are and 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:32.120 what this you know what I'm saying. They got all 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.320 these pictures. But I'm just like, fam, you ever heard 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.960 of a five day week work week? That's unions, my gi, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.400 you know what I'm saying. So like that seems very reasonable, 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.480 you know what I mean. So, so if you could 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.440 think of like some of the things you've had to negotiaate, 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.040 what was some of the most Like this is, I 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:48.920 don't understand why this is so hard for y'all. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.040 So have you ever heard, you ebably heard the phrase 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.400 every crisis is an opportunity? Right, Yes, you've heard people 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.040 say that, right. So, my union and other unions have 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.040 been pushing for telework. You know, in my entire twenty 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.000 years with the state, I'll be seventeen years veteran with 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:05.680 the state as of December, right, Wow. 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:07.280 The entire time we wanted telework. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.640 It took the quarantine crisis of twenty twenty twenty twenty 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.160 one to actually get the state to agree to mass 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.239 implement telework, and so that was like, that's a crisis 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:18.200 that we made an opportunity. 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:19.840 That's like, hey, we needed telework. 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.120 So many people are also caring for their kids, are 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.960 also caring for their elderly people in their home, caring 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.280 for a new baby, or you know, take you know, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.280 just at the house so that contractors could come fixed 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.520 their plumbing. You know. It's like like tell of work 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.240 has been something that we thought was very reasonable for 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.000 a long time, that it took it took until the 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.400 COVID crisis for us to get telework. And we feel 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.040 like we're pioneers that in a workforce way, because now 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.599 there's lots of places that have telework, partly because I 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:44.920 think the work that unions like us. 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:46.280 Have done that's dope, man. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.200 You know, obviously coming out of the pandemic and recently 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.679 like a lot of companies are like, hey, you guys 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.640 can come back to the office and people are like 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:59.120 absolutely not, Wow, Like why take it away? 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:00.679 Are you taking away unless you got it? 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:00.959 Yeah? 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:02.440 Yeah, why would we do that. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.960 I know my own Like my wife, you know, she 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.200 pre pandemic at the spot she was working. As she 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.440 was working at a nonprofit. You know, she was like, Okay, 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.000 I was touring so much, and she was just like, dude, 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:16.839 like you want me in this office at a certain time. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.679 It's stressed on the whole family to get my daughter 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.600 to school. It's you know, just breaking her neck to 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.240 figure stuff out. She's like, I'm done with the stuff 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.280 that can be done at a desk within an hour. 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.959 She's like, I'm just I'm just scrolling the internet. Yeah, 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:34.520 Like I'm just like like I'm trying to. 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.040 Tell you you're paying for lights, you're paying for. 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:38.120 You're paying for audi. 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.000 There's no reason, like I don't have to be here, 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:42.480 you know. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.360 And so she pushed. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.520 She was just like, you know, looked up her own rights, 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.760 you know, figured it out and you know, without telling 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.880 her business. She uh, she actually helped the staff unionize there, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:57.880 Like you know what I'm saying. She was like, look, man, 0:09:57.920 --> 0:09:59.120 it's ridiculous. You know what I'm saying. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.320 You got a real one, Yeah, don't don't don't google 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:10.160 it anyway. 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.240 So yeah, so something that you had to you know, 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.920 you said, you actually go to the state, you you 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.440 interact with Gavin Newsom, you know, which is the whole thing. 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.000 Sure we have our opinions on mister Newsom, Sure you know, 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.480 and like how allied are you as an ally? Like 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.040 you say, and you know if you were complicated. We 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:33.599 can't always agree on the same things, you know what 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.439 I'm saying, Like, but like that's correct. There's been there 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.599 have been times where it's been like, hey, you know what, Sue. 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.880 He's doing something dope, and then other times when he's not, yeah. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.360 Doing something dope. The other times it's like, bro, who 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:44.800 are you? 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.360 Yeah, right, like what is happening right now? 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.880 So so obviously you know when you go up there, 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.120 you're you're not interacting with him, You're interacting with his team, right. 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:54.600 Yeah. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.520 The one time I actually met him, I went to 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.880 the California Democratic Party convention and shoot some twelve in 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.400 San Diego, and I just went with a friend, just 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:04.760 showed up. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.120 I was not a delegate. I was a union riff already, 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:08.080 but I had no official role. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.760 I just showed up and walked around the San Diego Hilton, 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:12.840 which is also where they founded San Diego Comic Con yeah, 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:13.640 and uh. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:15.120 And I got to meet a lot of. 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.640 Officials, including some inland ones, including some really famous people 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.200 like Nancy Pelosi's daughter. But I went up to I 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.800 went up to at the time Lieutenant governor knew him 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.080 and basically thanked him because he had just voted against 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.679 the tuition hype for the Cal States and UC. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:31.679 And I was and I went to cal say Samary. 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:33.640 Know, I have my master's in poetry by MFA and 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.520 poetry from Cal say Samardino. And so I was still 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.240 a student at the time, and he had just voted 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:39.240 against a tuition increase. 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:40.800 So there's a picture of me meeting him from that 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.360 from that time. That's all. That's great. 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.560 Yeah, so that and he had just done something good 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.240 and he and he said humble things about it when 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.240 I thanked him for it. So my one personal interaction 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.520 with him was good. But since then, when in the 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:53.680 capacity of the union, I deal with his bargaining team, 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.000 like my our bargaining team deals with his bargaining team Instacramento. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.520 Were okay, so give me one something that's been like 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.440 that were what they were asking for. Yeah, it was 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.080 like this is completely unreasonable, guys, Like what are you talking. 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.679 So every three years, every three years, our state employee 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.240 contract goes up, uh huh, right, And so around the 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.400 two year mark, we start gearing up negotiations, you know, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.640 and the state Newsome has the power to summon us 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.800 for negotiation, and we have the power to summon his. 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:20.600 Team for negotiation. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.640 Right, So at that two year mark we start negotiating. 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.240 So in twenty twenty two, we started negotiating about the 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.559 twenty twenty three expiring, you know, so that by the 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:30.280 end of twenty three we could have a new contract. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.120 When your state employee, it's difficult. 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.000 It's hard to strike, right, Like, you have to have 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.480 an extremely high threshold to strike. Like if you're a 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.040 a a private company in you're union, it's a lot 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.439 easier to strike. You guys all want to strike, you 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.720 strike Like episode of the Simpsons, temer became the union. 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:44.920 They're just like devil plan, you know, and they started 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:49.400 striking right right with the state. Because we provide essential 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.200 services to Californians in need, it is an extremely high 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.480 threshold in terms of what it would take for us 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.520 to legally be allowed to strike, right And Newsome and 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.560 his team know that, so they could kind of like 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.880 really slow walk negotiations and stop negotiating in good faith. 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.480 But as long as there's like you know what, there's 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.760 signs of life on the hospital tickers the negotiations, then 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.000 they're stick. We're still obligated to not strike damn right. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:17.200 So in twenty twenty three our contract expired, Newsom was 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.600 offering us one or two percent raised for the next 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.080 three years, and meanwhile he was going on TV saying, oh, 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.720 debate Ron DeSantis, Oh during that time, I want to 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.400 help the screen Actors Guild finish their contract and the 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.280 Screenwriters Guild, and I want to So it's like, well, 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:33.400 whoa bro, where are your kids? 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:34.720 Why are you trying to go help their kids? 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.319 Yeah, you know, it. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.280 Was like, why you're not negotiating with us, but you're 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.480 on TV talking about I want to help Harrison Ford 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.040 and I want to help, you know, I want to 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.480 help the actors get their contract. And it's like, so 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.280 I had something I made a TikTok recently about how 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.959 I think my lefty friends, and I'm lefty to help, 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.120 of course, but like artist friends, anti establishment friends, you know, 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.360 leftist friends, I think hate democrats in stupid ways, whereas 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.599 there are smart ways to hate Democrats right, Like, to me, 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.680 the stupid the stupid way to hate Democrats is to 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:05.520 be like, oh, both parties are the same. I'm going 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.080 to sit out and let Republicans win and hurt us worse. Right, 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.800 to me, the smart way to hate on Democrats is 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.800 to realize when they're doing a good thing here, they're 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.400 distracting you from a bad thing here. 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.960 And then they're doing a bad thing here they're distracting 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.520 you. You know, it's like a good things right. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.640 So, like Newsome at times might be capitulating to Trump 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.000 on something federally, but then he does something good state 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:27.280 domestically in the state. 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:28.800 To kind of keep his rep up. Or the reverse. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:30.960 Maybe he's fighting with Trump on something and that's good, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.280 but he's doing some wax shit like slow walking our contracts. Yeah, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.480 we're not Hollywood actors, right, so when our contract goes up, 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:38.920 you didn't get the news about it, like with the 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.440 Screen Actors Guild, because that's slapping your Hulu, that's stopping 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:41.840 your Disney. 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.120 Plus, you know you hear all about that. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.800 When our contract expires, you don't hear about it unless 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:47.680 you're on disability. 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.520 Unless you're on one of our programs and then. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.040 You can't go to the office because because we're understaffed 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.480 or because something's going wrong with us. Right, So twenty 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.360 twenty three was a pissed off time for us because 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.480 he's offering us peanuts. He is offering to help everybody else. 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.520 Let me help that actors, let me help the screenwriters. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.600 Let me fight Ron DeSantis. Let me go go to 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.440 Washington and have federal fights. Meanwhile, we're our contract expired. 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.680 And when our contract expired, there's things we lose. There's 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.360 stuck things we lose, there's benefits we lose. And he 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:12.720 just so he had us, had. 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:13.280 Us in a bind. 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.000 So I organized a work site picket at my office 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.440 in San Bernardino one hundred and two degree weather. 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:20.600 We can't strike, but we can picket. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:21.000 Wow. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:22.400 Okay, see I didn't know that. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:22.560 You know. 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.720 So that's part of being a union rep is like 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:25.680 what are my tools? 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:26.200 You know? 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:27.400 Like what are my tools? 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.760 Like you know your arsenal, know your weaponry? Right, And 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.400 so I organized a picket. We had signs me and 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.560 and I'm just I tear up and I think about 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.680 this because I had coworkers, but I didn't think we're 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:37.720 going to march in the heat with me. 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:39.920 I thought it might have been me by myself. You know. 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.800 I was one of only one or two union reps 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:43.120 in my office at the time. Now we have four 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:44.960 because I've been recruiting, you know, and I have good 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:46.000 people in my office, you know. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:47.920 But at the time, I was one of the only 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:48.640 union reps. 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.640 There's people who I knew had legitis get the system 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.160 about the union. I didn't expect it. But every single lunch, 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.560 not just my lunch, at every lunch, we had people 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.080 picketing in front of my office with signs. People were 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.800 honking in support of us. Within a month or two, 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.880 we got an eight percent raise on that next negotiation. 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:04.920 Let's go, you know. 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.360 And so you know, when we fight, we went. When 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.600 we unite, we win, you know, like you don't. We're 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.480 not fighting for nothing. And and and that was a 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.520 duor die moment for me as a union organizer. Because 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.960 I hadn't had many real fights yet, and I had 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:17.880 I couldn't really point to my co workers and say, hey, 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:18.720 we did this and got this. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:19.600 We did this and got this. 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:21.520 So the fact that I got my co workers to 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.520 march in one hundred two degree whether with me instead 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:25.680 of just sitting in the air condition having lunch, and 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:26.560 that we won that. 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:28.400 A few weeks later, they said, you're gonna get a 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:28.960 eight percent rais. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.880 Now that's hard, you know, Like I was like, yes, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:32.960 like proof of concept. 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:34.840 I have proof of concept. I'm not just wasting my 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:35.600 co workers time. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.760 I could tell you there's a tangible result to when 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:38.680 we organized together. 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.200 See, that's these are the type of like wins we 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.880 need to hear. Yes, we've been, we've been taking them 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.000 mails like yes, sir speaking to l so, y'all's y'all's 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:49.440 s CiU one thousand. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.440 You know David ware though, right, that's his. 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:52.160 Name, m hm. 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.320 David Wareth is from one of the California s CiU branches. 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.280 He's tightly connected to our union. But he's not one. 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.480 He's not one thousand, okay where, but he is CiU 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:00.440 so he is part of us. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:00.760 Yeah. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.960 So when Ice, you know, invaded our streets, yes, he 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.879 was outside, you know, doing what he had to do. 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.520 I know SCIU set up the thing at Alvera Street. Yeah, 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.680 they set up a location there for like to educate. 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.320 It was just such a beautiful thing. But the first 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.639 thing that got me out. The house was the rally 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.520 for when he was detained, So like, man, tell me 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:25.280 what was going on, and as much as you can 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.919 behind closed doors. So most of the listeners here know 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.879 this story because this show is like pretty tapped in. 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.000 But yeah, right, So what I would say is this 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.440 to me an opportunity to talk about like the cultural 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.119 differences with Inland and la right, because the Union is 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.760 very progressive, right, but the Inland is a much more 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.879 conservative area, right. And compared to Los Angeles, compared to 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.760 San Francisco, compared to you know, it's not as big 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:51.280 of a city. 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:52.280 It's more impoverished. 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.680 Yeah, you know, there's a lot of you know, even 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.560 just the geography of it, right, people grew up in 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.720 the city, like my mom grew up aroundhere. 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:01.479 You're trying about day and a monthday. 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:03.800 I was born in a Monthay, But there was a 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.320 suburban exodus in the late eighties of like people who 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:07.840 wanted to go from that east of late six to 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.720 six area to raise their kids in the Inland because 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:11.000 that was the more conservative suburbs. 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:11.360 Right. 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.000 So for me, every time something like that happens with 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:15.720 something like a David Watar or something in one of 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.080 the bigger cities happens, and we're fighting with the right 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.760 wing about things. It's a matter of me educating my 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:22.120 inland people about why we care. 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.400 And while we're all come okay, you know, and then there's. 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.159 Always some people and I got to respect us as 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.080 a union organizer. I really have to be able to 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.080 talk with my more conservative members because there are people 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.040 in the union that are not super progressive warriors like me. 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.720 They're just workers who want to be represented. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:36.919 Right. 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.960 I was gonna say, that's actually a good point to 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.399 hammer down because like last year, one of the shows 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.280 on our network covered a union strike at a I 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.440 want to say, it was like a metal plant in Alabama, 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.080 like in the sticks of Alabama. 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:52.639 These are good old boys from the South. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.080 But one thing we can agree on me is like 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.600 pay me what I'm worth, Like YO say, Like, it just. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:00.760 Seems pretty simple to me. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.240 I don't understand how you've got to be a progressive 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.240 to want to be paid what you worth, you know, So, sir, so, 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.040 I think that that's a good point to say that, Like, 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.760 even in a rather conservative place, all of us want 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.240 to go home and eat, you know, and earn the 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.960 wages that I that I should be pay me what 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.680 I'm worth. It just it seemed that simple, exactly. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.159 And so so that's a tension that happens, right, and 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.040 this is kind this is probably a discussion that happens 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.399 among a lot of progressive groups in general. That like, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.399 there's people who want you to focus on your on 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.320 your issue, but there's also people who recognize that we're 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.040 part of an interconnected society where it's like if the 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.200 immigrants are being harmed, then the laborers are being harmed, 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.239 if the artists are being harmed, then the nurses are 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:39.600 being harmed, if the teachers, you know. 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.359 So there's always that divide. 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.080 But in the Inland, which is a more conservative area, 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.199 there's especially that divide between people who are like, I 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.560 don't want my union fighting about immigration and ice. I 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.159 don't want my union fighting about the environment. Wow, I 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.080 don't want the union fighting about LGBT. I just want 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:53.760 the union to fight for my rais. I want the 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:55.840 union to fight for my telework and that's all I 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:57.760 want them to do. Right, So that's a that's a 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.359 big thing for me, is to kind of exlain to 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.040 people how no, given where the fighting for immigrant rights 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.040 is him fighting for you as a worker, okay, you know, 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.000 because if they came for then they could come for you, 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:07.159 you know. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:08.919 So that's kind of how I see that. 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:10.919 Yeah, did you feel like it landed? 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.639 Well, it always does with some and it doesn't with some. 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:16.560 You know, I'll be honest with you. 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.879 There are people who just left the union after the 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:20.840 Charlie Kirk killing. 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:21.440 Oh wow. 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.359 In my opinion, they're going to really weird logic jumps 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.240 when they're like, well, the union endors Kamala, and Kamala 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.320 has supporters that are happy about Charlie Kirk dines in 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:30.680 the union. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.280 Yeah, I'm like, uh so you don't want that raise. 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:34.960 You really ran string in that joint. 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:35.240 You know. 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.400 That is definitely the all way sunny in Philadelphia meme 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.920 of just you like tieing these strings together like brouh. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:42.280 I don't know what you're talking about. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.600 Yeah, right, And so, to be honest, there's been some 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:45.920 of that. 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.040 You know, I'll say this that Charlie Kirk gave us 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.399 more of that than that immigration stuff. But there's always 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:52.240 those few whispers from a few people who are like 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.800 they're just not down with the broader cause. 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:56.680 Those of us who are in the leadership of the union. 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:58.960 I think we have solidarity, you know, we have solidarity 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.080 not just with other states workers, but with anyone who's 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.640 in any SAU Yeah, with Team Stirts, for anyone who's 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.760 in any union, and with Californians, anyone who is somebody 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:07.159 who is in. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:08.679 A vulnerable group, you know. 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:10.800 And so there's just always that difference of opinion. I 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.359 would say, over let's say sixty percent hits in a 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.600 good way and in my area, because it's so conservative, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:16.440 let's say forty percent. 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.119 It doesn't, you know in some way you work on. 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:18.920 That's interesting. 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:30.600 Okay. 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.040 My last two questions would be this, like I'll give 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.159 them both, Like, so, what are y'all currently kind of 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.919 like pushing for. I'm assuming it has a lot to 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.840 do with immigration and ice rays and stuff, but also 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.560 in what ways can we as just a broader community 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:46.520 help Well, how. 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:46.879 Do I put this? 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.600 So I work in downtown samur Dino, Okay, and my 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.720 disability office is next to the Mexican Consulate. 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:53.560 Let's go. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:55.639 First of all, we need to paint a picture of 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:59.040 Sam Bernardino. I really feel like, yeah, for those that 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:04.800 don't know California, the nature of what Sam Bernardino is 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:06.879 is a part of this story that you might be missing? 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:11.080 First of all, like, Okay, all that you pictured, everything 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.919 that everybody else pictures around what you thought Compton was 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.040 in the nineties, all the pictures. 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:16.320 That you think. 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:21.040 YO said that, you go, oh, it's really Sam Bernardino, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.840 Like YO say, yeah, So, I mean, I'm trying to 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.160 say this in a way that's a descriptive and not derogatory, 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.320 because obviously, like it's always KLi love for me and 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.399 you know, I'll of course, but there is a certain 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.760 there's a certain part of Sam Bernardino that feels like 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.600 like just a spirit of like we just gave up 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.080 the walking dead, the walking Deat's exactly it. It feels 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.520 like a zombie land, like just this dark I remember 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.920 the Carousel mall, like you walk by that mall. 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:51.720 It's eerie. 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:55.080 It just feels like when people talk about the Forgotten Man, 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:55.919 the Forgotten America. 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.919 I'm like San Bernardino, like, yes, Winne gave up on. 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:00.960 Yeah. 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.080 It has recently gone from two hundred and thirty thousand 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.919 people to only two hundred thousand people. But also probably 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:07.360 because a lot of people that left were the most 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.280 impoverised people. Our poverty rate went from let's say, in 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:12.879 the post Bush Too recession, like twenty ten, we had 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:15.280 a thirty percent poverty rate. We were the most impopulous 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:17.560 city in the state. We've gotten down to like seventeen 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:19.960 percent poverty, which is still bad. Yeah, you know, that's 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:23.000 still almost one one out of five people. What was 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.680 It's very diverse, I mean, and someone who pays anention 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:27.359 in the politics, it has all the problems exactly like 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:28.879 you said, all the problems that people talk about when 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.679 they say the important problems. It's post industrial. There's gun violence, 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:34.880 it's diverse, there's poverty. You know, there's environmental issues because 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.960 it's such a warehouse empire. Yeah, because it's such a 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:39.400 you know, area of freight and warehouses. 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:40.960 It's like the air quality is some of the worst 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.040 in the state. Yeah, you know, we we have real problems. 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:45.000 You know, we got real problems. 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:46.760 And in downtown downtown smer do you know, is a 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:48.560 lot of where the problems are. We want to get it, 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.080 like downtown Redlands and downtown Riverside and some of the 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:52.000 other NICs of downtowns. 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:52.800 But it's just not there yet. 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.320 And there are people absolutely working on that and like 0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:57.320 there are a couple of alleyways in the city that 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.359 sounds so it sounds so humble, But we have a 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:02.560 couple of alleyways in the city that got five hundred 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:04.439 thousand dollars grants recently to kind of make them an 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:06.280 ARC's alleyway to kind of look like something more like 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:07.240 the Claremont Village. 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:07.879 Let's go, you know. 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.760 And so yeah, you know, and so we are always 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:11.159 working on it. 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:13.240 And I will always you know, as somebody who founded 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.639 co founded the Inland Empire Music Award Show and other 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:17.480 platforms that I put on not just my art, but 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:19.200 I helped put on other artists in the Inland. I 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:22.000 will always tell you about the amazing tacology could get 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:23.920 in my city, the amazing small businesses you could support 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.560 my city, the amazing art community, yeah, put on by 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.400 by my ogs like Judah one of Pomona, like Noah 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.440 James of the Inland and Lisa j and many. 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:34.639 Others you know who helped build a really. 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:38.440 Beautiful ecosystem like there's there's please come to summer, you 0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:39.680 know and hit me up and I'll take you to 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:41.119 save beautiful sports of it, you know. 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:43.320 But yes, it's it's rough to your point. 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:44.640 I know, I want you to get to the next thing. 0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:46.399 But to your point, that was the same as that 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:48.840 picture of content to where it's like yes, like in 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.080 the sense that like we know it's dangerous, we know 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:54.000 there's poverty, we know there's that, but there's beauty here, 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:56.480 dope stuff you know, and let me come like and 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:58.480 again like just the hood rules where it's like, well 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:01.119 you and me like, oh, you're good. 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:03.520 You know what I'm saying, Like, you know. 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.960 And some of them may yeah, like we can, we 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:09.600 can definitely shine lights. Like I said, Like, you know, 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:11.359 I've talked about Noah James on this show. 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:13.040 You know what I'm saying. I've talked about Judo one. 0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:15.280 You know that I talked about since here C four 0:25:15.480 --> 0:25:17.919 like the people that like I came, I came up with, 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:18.600 you know what I'm saying. 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:19.840 Yeah, the Inland Empire. 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:23.040 A lot of the stuff that the nation attributes to 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:25.560 LA is really ie. 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:27.960 You know what I'm saying, Yes, sir, And we know, 0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:30.119 like we know because they're not lying about it. 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:32.399 We know that matter of fact, nobody has pride about 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:34.240 I he got pride boy. 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:36.680 Like they're like no, no, no, no, we are to Inland. 0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:37.360 And I love that about y'all. 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:39.560 Anyway, I'm wearing my Jaden Daniels check it out. 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:40.879 Yup, yup, yop yup. 0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:43.040 You know, yeah, because the I he got a hide, 0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:43.920 I gotta hides. 0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:47.040 So yeah, okay, So anyway, so your office is next 0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:48.560 to the Mexican Consulate. 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:51.720 Mexican Consulate, right, and so I've actually spent my you know, 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:53.840 I've been at this office in Samuray, you know, since 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:56.399 twenty fourteen, and five years before that I worked in 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:57.160 the Riverside office. 0:25:57.320 --> 0:25:58.920 But I've been in my office in Chemuary No. 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:02.200 Twenty fourteen, and I have gone to so many I've 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:04.800 infiltrated so many right wing protests that are in front 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:05.760 of the Mexican Consulate. 0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:08.320 Yes, and like and like, so I'll go hang out 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:09.440 with them. They're like, oh, what do you guys, what 0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:10.160 are you guys doing? 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.239 And then I'll like take their markers, I'll take their 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:13.320 posters and I'll just kind. 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:14.679 Of be like, oh, yeah, maybe you have a point there. 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:16.560 And then I'm like I'm in my office and then 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:19.240 my secretary is, you know, the secretary of my office. 0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:20.280 Is like, oh, where did you get these markers? Loot. 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:23.359 I got you some mark because it's you know, and 0:26:23.400 --> 0:26:25.920 so I'll infiltrate right wing protests. But but on the 0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:28.320 flip side, lately, you know, Ice knows they could come 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:31.919 to my corner. And my corner in downtown has the 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:34.439 Chase Bank, the Wells Fargo Bank, the Mexican Consulate, the 0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:37.440 Disability Office, the old city Hall building, like it's like 0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:39.480 the hub. It's one of the downtown hubs of the city. 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:42.360 And Ice has been coming in snatching people up in front. 0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:43.919 Of my office. It happened. 0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:46.760 It's happened twice at least in the last month. And 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:48.280 one of the days that it happened, I was in 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:51.720 the office. I called my congressman, I called the mayor. 0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:53.960 I got all the local authorities involved. By the end 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:56.480 of the day, the horse mounted unit of my city's 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:58.879 police was like patrolling to make sure Ice wasn't messing 0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.800 with us. And tell you, homie, what a weird place 0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:03.600 this is. I've never been so happy to see the 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:05.160 regular cops right right right. 0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:06.119 You know what is this? 0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:06.760 What is this? 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:07.360 Timeline? 0:27:07.359 --> 0:27:09.320 Are you doing to me? What are you doing to me? 0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:12.480 We're like, I'm I'm in seven eleven six in the morning, 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:14.720 getting my getting my coffee, and I see regular cops. 0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:17.960 I'm like, thank you sir for at least showing a warrant. Yeah, yeah, exact, 0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:21.280 rest me, yeah exactly, you know, because Ice is doing 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.720 none of that. None of that. They're not doing warrants 0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:26.280 to do it. They took I want to cry. 0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:26.439 They did. 0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:28.720 They pushed a wife out of the way. She's like, 0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:30.760 what are you doing. They took the husband, tossed him 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:32.760 in the band and drove off. It all happened so 0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:34.960 fast that no one was able to film it. Damn 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:36.800 you No, in this era, no one was able to 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:37.119 film it. 0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:39.240 And they know that. How that they're doing it that fast. 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:41.640 That's the trick. Yeah, that's the trick. That's what we've 0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:42.080 been telling. 0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:43.920 Like a lot of people have asked me, just friends 0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:46.320 from out of town, like dude, has it has it 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.760 toned down? And I was like, no, it just went underground. 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:52.440 It's like they just they're a lot more sneaky now, 0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:54.200 Like it's not this big. 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:55.480 Display of power. 0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:58.960 It's more the sniper guerrilla warfare to where like you said, 0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:01.879 you just getting your gas, I usally how your pumping gas? 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.000 And then somebody just and it's so fast I can't 0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:05.800 film it, you know what I'm saying. Yes, And the 0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:09.000 hard part for me is like is to your point 0:28:09.000 --> 0:28:11.159 to where it's like since you know, identifying yourself, like 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.080 you might not even be an ice agent. 0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:14.919 And that's a thing that happened. 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:17.560 That's the thing that there are people who impersonate law 0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:20.720 enforcement officers and go harassed people just on a racist basis. Yeah, 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:23.640 you know, and and and it's arguable that the Trump 0:28:23.640 --> 0:28:25.200 administration is empowering people like that. 0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:29.640 M man. Yeah, so so yeah, it absolutely is happening. 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:33.480 To be honest, my union, Uh, we're going to always 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:35.679 support the actions that are fighting back against it. But 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:37.760 the but the only things that we really have jurisdiction 0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:39.240 to actually fight. 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:41.840 H is the labor related word, you know. 0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:44.360 And so you know, we we actually just got telework 0:28:44.400 --> 0:28:48.800 extended in exchange for delaying our rais you know, because 0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:51.520 the states really broke right now for a lot of reasons. Yeah, 0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:53.600 we delayed for two years a raise that we were 0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:55.440 about to get in July, so there were already a 0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:57.720 couple of months past not having that raise. But in exchange, 0:28:57.720 --> 0:28:59.800 we got our telework agreement extended for two years. So 0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:02.800 what I would tell people who want to get involved 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:05.360 is like, if you are in a workplace that has 0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:08.160 a union, get involved, you know, or if you had 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:10.240 someone in your life like me who does union stuff 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:12.160 outside of work, next time they invite you to a 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:14.040 phone bank, or next time they invite you to an event, 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:16.640 go support because we're absolutely we were at the No 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:19.240 Kings protest, we were at the anti Ice protest like 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:22.120 like like, we're in the unofficial capacity, we're we're gonna 0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:23.880 do all those kind of things to. 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:26.760 Support the broader community. And even though it's my union. 0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:29.000 For example, on Wednesdays we have a lot of our meetings, 0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:31.680 we're doing a phone banking for Prop fifty right, which 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:33.560 is the whole redistrict, which gives us the power to 0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:35.640 take some seats away from the Republicans. I know there's 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:37.080 a lot of there's a debate to be had there, 0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:39.800 but ultimately it's us trying to take keep some power 0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:42.000 away from the right wing. And you don't have to 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:43.520 be in my union to go to those phone banks 0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:45.440 if you want a phone bank to help Prop fifty 0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:47.440 pass so we could take some Republican seats away from 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:48.800 the federal House representatives. 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:49.600 Hit me up. 0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:52.400 Hit up anybody you know in the Inland Empire chapter 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:54.120 of SEIU, and we can bring you to a phone 0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:56.840 bank in Ontario and we'll get pizza or barbecue or whatever, 0:29:56.960 --> 0:29:57.240 and we. 0:29:57.160 --> 0:30:01.160 Could phone bank against these dang Republicans. Yeah, man, Man Tangent, 0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:03.320 I appreciate this, man, I appreciate you. 0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:03.479 Man. 0:30:03.640 --> 0:30:05.360 I've wanted to have wanted you to have me on I. 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:07.800 I love your show and I love you man. I 0:30:07.800 --> 0:30:08.720 think you're such a cool dude. 0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:09.440 I think wise. 0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:11.560 I think that you're engaging in the community in a 0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:13.640 cool way. You're an artists I respect a lot, and 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:15.920 not just me. I mean people friends like Sincere, like 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.560 explain to me why you're significant to them and why 0:30:18.640 --> 0:30:19.440 you're an influence and. 0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:22.880 Stuff like that. So I appreciate even being on your radar. Brother, Man, 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:24.680 stop it, stop it some more. 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:28.200 I'm just kidding. My wife says that, okay, so perfect. 0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:30.960 Well, then tell us how people need to hear your music, 0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:32.680 how they can get in touch with you, how they 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:33.200 can follow you. 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:34.200 Give me all the links. 0:30:34.400 --> 0:30:37.120 Oh yeah, yeah yeah, So T A n J I 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:38.840 n T is Tangent. 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:42.040 You know you can find me on everything on Twitter, Instagram, 0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:45.320 you know Facebook, what was it The Inland Empire Music 0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.040 Award show that I'm a co director and co founder of. 0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:52.680 Is that it's only Empire dot com. That's its only 0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:55.240 Empire dot com. And also I want to encourage Inland 0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:57.320 Empire artists. You know, you still have from now to 0:30:57.360 --> 0:31:00.320 the end of September to submit to the award show. 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:02.560 And we've been doing it for three years. We partner 0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:03.800 with nonprofits and businesses. 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.840 We throw a dope ass it's pretty gala, you know, 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.600 award show at a little art center in downtown sammer 0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:11.120 Deane with the Garcia Center for the Arts. Or We 0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:13.560 give away real trophies and real awards and we have 0:31:13.840 --> 0:31:16.720 red carpet media and performances. It's like it's like the 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:19.160 Grammys for the Inland Empire. So you know, please get 0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:21.800 involved in It's only Empire dot com. That's only Empire now. 0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:24.120 Famli Likely is my group with Diesel. We got a 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:26.520 new album out that's like scam likely on your phone, 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:28.600 but fam Likely because it's likely that your family's hitting 0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:28.840 you up. 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:31.120 Fam Likely. West Coast Avengers is. 0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.360 My first group, the more nerd core Inland Empire stuff, 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:35.560 and we got an album that came out just under 0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:36.000 a year ago. 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:39.320 Now the Harvest. So I'm everywhere. You can catch everything 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:43.239 all over the place. Yeah, yeah, tangent. 0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:45.680 Wiggle, thank you so much, my brother, Hey, thank you 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:46.320 man much love. 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:05.560 Welcome in to that and here a podcast about why 0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:10.880 everything feels absolutely awful and also deeply unhinged. I'm your 0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:16.120 host Vi A long and oh boy, thing feel bad. 0:32:16.360 --> 0:32:17.680 I don't know. This is my bost This is my 0:32:17.720 --> 0:32:25.320 most Robert a while with me to talk about why 0:32:25.400 --> 0:32:28.800 everything sort of feels like this and the disconnect between 0:32:29.280 --> 0:32:34.640 the fact that like everyone actually hates Trump and the 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:38.200 way that's being not covered and reflected in everything that 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:41.320 you interact with. Is Vicky Ostrowell, who is a writer 0:32:41.440 --> 0:32:44.520 and editor at the collective journal Call You were of 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:46.560 many things agitated. 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:49.920 I'm very busy, I. 0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:51.120 Think it says bricklayer. 0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:53.320 That's right. 0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:58.240 Yeah, who also has a new book called The Extended 0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:02.200 Universe out April fourteenth next year that is about the 0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:04.360 way that Disney sort of took over the world through 0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:07.960 the deployment, expansion and usage of the violence of the 0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:11.560 copyright regime, a thing that is suddenly very relevant again 0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:15.320 in our weird Jimmy Kimmel hours, So we'll be talking 0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:18.560 some more about that and about Disney's long history of 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:22.400 fascist bullshit towards the end. 0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:23.360 Of the Yeah. 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:25.160 Yeah, well it's it's it's a pleasure to be hearing 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:27.200 me at thanks, and yeah, we are all Jimmy's Kimmel, 0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:29.800 you know, in this moment, I think, oh. 0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:32.200 God, oh no, Jimmy's Kimble. 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:33.760 Oh that's that. 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:41.560 Okay. So I think that the place I wanted to 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:45.880 start is with this like question of like, why does 0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:49.480 it feel like this? Yeah, And I think part of 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:52.120 the reason it feels like that is that Trump's approval 0:33:52.200 --> 0:33:55.680 rating is really low, Like people don't actually like him. 0:33:55.800 --> 0:33:58.680 It's like forty one's reading is forty one percent. It's 0:33:59.040 --> 0:34:01.240 down like a point in September, even with all the 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:04.920 Charlie Kirk stuff, it's still down. His most popular policy 0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:08.040 is immigration policy, which is terrifying, But his most popular 0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:11.000 policy is pulling at forty two percent, So no one 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:14.440 actually likes him or anything that he does, right, and 0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:17.600 like forty one percent is still like a lot of people, 0:34:17.680 --> 0:34:21.920 but it's not the majority of the country, notably, like 0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:23.880 biol math works. 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:24.520 Yeah exactly. 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:27.480 Yeah, There's been a few things I think are interesting 0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:30.840 about this. There there are signs that this is actually 0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:35.160 really really there's something substantive happening here. One of them 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:37.080 was a special election that I think people have paid 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:39.239 attention to for about two days and then forgot about, 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:43.960 which was a special election in Iowa which prevented the 0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:49.480 GOP from getting a two third supermajority in the state legislature. 0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:54.799 And the Democrats somehow, miraculously, even though the Democrats are 0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:59.080 hideously unpopular, they won a special election in a district 0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:03.719 in western Iowa that was plus eleven for Trump this year. 0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:06.560 And this is not like a like this is a 0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:09.279 district that is like just Sioux City or something, or 0:35:09.360 --> 0:35:11.799 like you know, this is a this is a jerrymandered 0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:13.839 ass district that is like a little bit of Sioux 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:15.719 City and then stretched out all the way into a 0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:18.879 bunch of rural areas like tofuse the vote. They won 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:23.120 this district by eleven like last year, they lost this 0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:27.680 election by eleven points in Western Iowa. 0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:29.960 Yeah, unhinged. 0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:32.239 They're doing like all elections like this like that. It's 0:35:32.320 --> 0:35:35.399 it's being ridiculous. Like again this this is like this 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:38.280 is again like voting for people who are like not popular, 0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:41.359 but it's like literally any alternative people are like, holy shit. 0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:47.240 Western Iowa is like nah fuck this, this fucking sucks ass. 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:49.399 Like it's yeah. 0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:51.839 A thing that you know, I've been following a bit 0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:55.960 is that farmers are freaking out. Yeah, soybean soybean crops 0:35:56.040 --> 0:35:58.360 and corn crops are gonna be rotting in the fields. 0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:01.680 You know, I think soybeans, so soy in particular, something 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:04.760 like fifty percent of the US soy crop is traditionally export. 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:07.840 And by traditionally I mean every year exported to China. 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:11.200 This year China is not buying any American soybeans yep. 0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:13.160 So literally half of the market is going to die. 0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:15.720 And I don't know, you know, people sometimes these numbers 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:19.400 don't don't really do justice. If half of an economy collapses, 0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.920 that's the whole economy collapsing. That's not that's not like 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:25.520 oh yeah, they just like took you know, a haircut, 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:26.920 Like that's massive. 0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.560 Yeah. American farmers are like the most bailed out class 0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:33.480 of people who are not like major corporations in the 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:36.960 entire world, and it's not working. Like they keep being like, 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:38.520 oh it's okay, we'll just like give you a bunch 0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:42.000 of money, and it's not enough because China has decided 0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:43.520 not to buy any of this, so I mean crop. 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:46.640 But it's like okay, yeah, And this is something we 0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:49.560 talked about like at the beginning of the administration, which 0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:52.120 is that like this administration has been going through and 0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.799 systematically alienating every single part of the coalition. Yeah, they're 0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:58.759 pissing off like the farmers, they're pissing off like the 0:36:58.760 --> 0:37:02.160 major pharmaceutical companies, they're pissing off the military. They're pissing 0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:04.640 off a whole bunch of the parts of government bureaucracy. 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:08.440 Like they've kind of stripped the FBI to the bones 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:12.480 over like comey stuff that they're still mad about. And 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:14.000 then the guy they put in charge of it is 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:17.960 just like completely incompetence, and it's like, Okay, there's only 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:20.640 so long you can sort of go like systematically alienating 0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:23.279 every party of your coalition, just like basically attempting to 0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:26.080 drop a bomb on the economy every single week, and 0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:28.560 sometimes it drops and sometimes it doesn't. 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:30.360 Yeah, exactly. 0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:32.719 I think there's actually an interesting sort of parallel here 0:37:33.320 --> 0:37:35.640 with tech stocks and with like the economy in general 0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:38.200 that has been sort of you know, on the ground 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:39.640 for most of us has felt like it's been in 0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:42.800 recession since twenty twenty. Yeah, right, you know of different 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:45.799 sizes and localities, but it's felt bad for a while. 0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:46.960 Now it's really bad. 0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:48.879 No one can get a job, yep, right, Like things 0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:50.440 are really like, prices are going. 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:50.879 Up, up up. 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:53.520 Everyone feels bad, and yet the stock market is still 0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:57.120 achieving highs. And I think there's sort of a generalized 0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:01.879 equivalent strategy of like make it look like things are 0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:04.920 normal and good, and like that will actually just support 0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:08.360 things materially, and like, yep, I mean maybe it will forever. 0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:11.359 Maybe the bottom will never fall out. I don't know. 0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:13.879 I don't think that's I think that's not bad bad, 0:38:14.000 --> 0:38:15.040 but like, okay. 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.080 Yeah, well but and I think the interesting part of 0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:21.160 this too is if you look at what's going on 0:38:21.200 --> 0:38:22.839 with the economy, and it's also word noting, right, Like, 0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:29.320 the economy nominally in sort of econometric terms, looks fine. 0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:32.520 They're not fine, but it looks sort of okay, right, 0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:35.720 the stock market is still growing. There's technically like economic growth. 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:40.480 But comma, we both saw this chart a couple of 0:38:40.520 --> 0:38:42.560 weeks ago. That is the most unhinged thing I've ever 0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:44.799 seen in my entire life, which is there is a 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:49.520 GDP chart by a JP Morgan analyst which shows that 0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:54.040 tech in the last year roughly and like in the 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:58.160 last sort of like short and window, it's been thirty 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:03.840 five to forty five percent of all US GDP growth. Yeah, 0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:06.120 and what I say tech, by the way, like to 0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:09.359 be clear about this, it is technically a composite of 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:13.560 like all sector, right, but like it's basically just the 0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:17.239 like the top like the five big tech companies, right, yep, 0:39:17.320 --> 0:39:20.480 it's like Apple, its Microsoft, but pasifically. And this is 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:22.680 the one that's like unhinged right now, is that like 0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.240 the most valuable company in the world is in video, 0:39:25.400 --> 0:39:29.000 a company that makes graphics cards yep, yep. And this 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:31.200 is all because this is all of his GDP growth 0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:34.720 quote unquote is AI boom stuff? Right, it's like massive 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:37.160 fix capital investments. Sure, it's like, yeah, there's like incredible 0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:39.600 fixed appal investments, but the fixed capital investments are just 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:46.239 We're building a diesel powered AI data center somewhere in 0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:49.239 Tennessee that is going to poison the entire population for 0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:52.800 no benefit. Yeah, And it's like all of these companies 0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:56.000 like have gone just completely totally all in on AI 0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:58.360 A think that doesn't make anybody, can't make anybody instructurally 0:39:58.400 --> 0:39:59.680 will not make any money. And this is like a 0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:01.360 third like the growth of the economy. 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:04.680 We are actually living through the famous old tweet the 0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:07.120 drill Is it drill about the candles? Someone out fixed 0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:10.120 my economy living in the candles street. The whole economy 0:40:10.160 --> 0:40:10.640 is candles. 0:40:10.719 --> 0:40:11.080 Yeah. 0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:13.520 Yeah, And this is thing that our colleague at this 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:16.960 run argues that there's just there is not enough money 0:40:17.239 --> 0:40:22.799 in the world to just continuously bail these companies out. Yeah, 0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:25.880 Like there just isn't right the cash flow of these companies. 0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:28.239 It's like they've managed to achieve a cash flow rate 0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:32.920 that like can't be replaced by government contracts, which is 0:40:32.960 --> 0:40:36.560 just unbelievable. And I think this is one of the 0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:38.719 disconnect things, right because like it's interesting You're starting to 0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:42.080 see a little bit of stuff crop up from like 0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:45.000 local level politicians where offy once in a while you 0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:46.040 get them to be like, oh yeah, no, it is 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:49.560 like a recession economy, like on the ground in like Wisconsin. 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:52.160 But I feel like in the media and this is 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:53.720 one of the things that I think makes everything insane. 0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:56.080 It's not being treated that way. 0:40:56.480 --> 0:40:58.319 Yeah no, and I think you know you you went 0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:01.080 exactly where you know, hitked about going, but we're gonna go. 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:04.160 Which is that like part of what is so crazy 0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:09.000 making about this current moment is precisely that disconnect between 0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:11.399 sort of the on the ground experience that everyone's been 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:14.120 having for years now. But it is like especially intense 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:18.680 and like the fact that like AI is very obviously 0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:22.040 not interesting or good and no one likes it, and 0:41:22.080 --> 0:41:24.600 like even that people who sort of are I think 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.239 mostly in good faith like trying to take it seriously, 0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:29.320 and who are like, yeah, it's going to change everything, 0:41:29.400 --> 0:41:32.719 Like you know, like normally people in work stuff, like 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:35.160 they don't really use it very much, or if they 0:41:35.160 --> 0:41:37.600 do use it, like it's not effective. There wasn't a 0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:41.200 campaign to force everyone to buy smartphones when the iPhone happened, 0:41:41.200 --> 0:41:43.920 everyone wanted one because it was like obvious what it 0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:47.040 did for you. Now you know, they're obviously whatever's this 0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:49.799 is not a defense of the smartphone, but like there 0:41:49.880 --> 0:41:55.880 is this broad recognition that that is nonsense, right, that 0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:58.320 like the AI economy is nonsense, that like the economy 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:00.239 that everyone says is doing fine, feels bad. And this 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:02.960 has been going on since you know, Biden campaigned on 0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:05.520 you know, oh it's just a vibe session. The you know, 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:09.320 the economy is fine, and like the economy wasn't fine. 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:09.600 No. 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.080 One of the charts I really am obsessed with is 0:42:12.120 --> 0:42:14.840 a chart from like Bloomberg, which is like a small 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:18.520 business owner confidence from like twenty ten to twenty twenty five, 0:42:18.920 --> 0:42:20.880 and like if you look like from twenty sixteen to 0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:23.320 twenty twenty, which is the first Trump term, it goes 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:25.600 up like five hundred percent, right. 0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:27.000 She's just goes up. 0:42:27.000 --> 0:42:28.040 It just just as huge. 0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:30.520 It's the highest that's been by huge margin, and it 0:42:30.600 --> 0:42:33.440 just drops again in twenty twenty. So it finally made 0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:37.360 me understand why so many Libs were like so committed 0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:39.400 to the vibe session analysis, because there was a massive 0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:42.960 vibe inflation under the first Trump administration. So the reason 0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:44.960 people felt like the economy was good was because small 0:42:44.960 --> 0:42:47.640 business owners. And this is the classic analysis of fascists, right, 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.319 the petty bergs, Wow, the small business Yeah, they were like, 0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:52.840 these are the best times you've ever lived through, based 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:54.640 on no evidence. And if you work for a business 0:42:54.680 --> 0:42:56.960 and your boss is like things are booming, We're doing great. 0:42:57.320 --> 0:42:59.200 You know, if you don't run the numbers, you're likely 0:42:59.280 --> 0:42:59.759 to believe it. 0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:02.040 You know, like if if everyone around you is saying that, like, 0:43:02.480 --> 0:43:05.200 there's no reason to doubt it, unless I mean, you know, 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:06.960 you don't you don't really believe your boss at the time, 0:43:06.960 --> 0:43:08.360 but you know what I'm saying, Like it just has 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:10.920 it has an effect of making everyone feel. 0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:11.399 Like things are better. 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:14.520 That chart started to creep up again after Trump's election 0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:18.360 November twenty twenty four, before Liberation Day, but on the 0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:20.600 announcement of the Liberation Day, traffs tanks. 0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:21.400 So that's gone. 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:25.319 Yeah, it's gone. Yeah. And I think that's a really 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:30.319 vital sort of component of what's happening. Is like, you know, 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:32.080 we talk a lot about how so there's sort of 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:35.319 these like self contained like reality tunnels that people are 0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:38.399 gone down. But it's also really diffused by class. Yes, yes, 0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:40.800 And this ties back to the AI stuff for example, 0:43:40.800 --> 0:43:43.400 where it's like, if you are in the tech sector, 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:46.200 AI is kind of useful because the one thing you 0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:50.399 can sort of kind of do decently well is programmed, right, 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:52.440 and you're and if you are in this sort of 0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:56.160 like world which is again, enormous portions of all of 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:59.239 the economic growth right that is happening is coming out 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:00.839 of these places, and it's like, oh, this really does 0:44:00.880 --> 0:44:03.279 look like like the future is here. If you've you 0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:05.600 suddenly have this machine that can do your job for you. 0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:08.080 And it's like, well, maybe coding, which wasn't that hard 0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:12.160 to begin with, maybe, but like you know, like guys, 0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:14.040 I say this as someone who learned to code and 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:18.320 hated it, but like, you know, but like it creates 0:44:18.320 --> 0:44:21.560 these sort of like self reinforced like reality tunnels. But 0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:23.160 every the thing about the reality tunnels is like every 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:25.960 once in a while, like the actual world comes in 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:28.600 like a giant fucking arrow and punctures it. And that's 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:30.520 what happened to those all business people was they were like, 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:32.759 oh shit, what do you mean they got rid of 0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:34.600 the deminimist sicccession? What do you mean they're putting all 0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:36.799 these tariffs up? What do you mean They're like just 0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:39.960 straight up taking a sledgehammer to the entire logistic system 0:44:40.000 --> 0:44:42.439 that have been Like that's the basis of like most 0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:45.640 America's all businesses are like are shipping businesses right like 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:48.239 or they're either either directly shipping businesses or they rely 0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:51.360 on on cheap imports from a whole bunch of different countries. 0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:53.719 This even goes into like the grift economy, right, Like 0:44:53.760 --> 0:44:56.520 massive portions of the grift economy are just like yeah, 0:44:56.600 --> 0:44:57.560 like drop shifting. 0:44:57.280 --> 0:45:01.200 Grift bulls, supplements, stacks, Yeah exactly, Yeah, Like you know, 0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:03.120 it's another reality Tonnel mea. 0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:05.640 Oh these products and services, dammit, that was a better 0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:07.600 one than I was. I was gonna do. You know 0:45:07.640 --> 0:45:13.640 what else is a scam, But these products and services 0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:27.880 that support this podcast. We are so back. We have 0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:30.720 never been more back. I want to kind of also 0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:33.960 talk about what's been happening structurally with the media as 0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:35.520 this has been going on, which is that Trump and 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:39.719 his party has staged a pretty successful takeover of a 0:45:39.800 --> 0:45:42.399 lot of it. You know, you had, I mean Elon 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:45.200 Musk obviously buying X but like they're in the process 0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:48.759 of taking over CBS basically by using the fact that 0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:51.440 quote unquote free media is actually capitalist media, and you 0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:54.160 can just buy them out and bully them by threatening 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:57.759 them with losing money. You can, in fact just completely 0:45:57.760 --> 0:45:59.759 get them to fall in line or have your own 0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:02.600 which backers just buy it. And I think this is 0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:05.200 refueling the disconnect right where there was also this this 0:46:05.320 --> 0:46:09.160 post twenty twenty, all of like this. The senior management 0:46:09.280 --> 0:46:12.839 level of all of the newspapers kind of lost their 0:46:12.840 --> 0:46:15.399 minds in twenty twenty because their staff was like, no, 0:46:15.520 --> 0:46:18.040 we don't want to print Tom Cotton calling for the 0:46:18.160 --> 0:46:22.120 US Army to be deployed against protesters, and these people 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:24.040 were like, Okay, fuck it, We're we're like, you know, 0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:25.719 you see as like the Washington Post, they were like, yeah, 0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:29.640 we will literally rather burn the Post than have that 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:32.600 happened again. And the Post obviously is like under the 0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:35.120 control of Jeff Bezos. She was a style war Trump ally, 0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:38.160 and I think this has been contributing to it because 0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:40.960 like they've been able to take over social media platforms, 0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:44.080 and they've been able to take over the sort of corporate 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:49.920 like bourgeois media, and it's created this incredible unreality of 0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:53.320 this image that he is like this like staggeringly popular 0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:55.600 leader and that the things he do are popular, and 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:58.600 that there's been like a giant cultural shift towards his stuff, 0:46:58.600 --> 0:47:00.319 and it's like, well, I mean, they're kind of has 0:47:00.320 --> 0:47:02.799 been a cultural shift in terms of like you know, 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:10.359 elite liberals are allowed to be racist again, Like all 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:13.160 of the people who always wanted to be eugenicists are like, 0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:14.960 you know, on that shit now. 0:47:15.960 --> 0:47:17.640 And they you know, they cracked their knuckles and warmed 0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:20.360 up under COVID, right like this this is also contiguous 0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:22.359 in a way, and yeah, yeah, no, I think that 0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:24.719 that's exactly right. And I think part of what we 0:47:24.760 --> 0:47:27.000 saw in the last week, I mean, I know we're 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:28.200 going to talk about this a bit that like the 0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:30.600 last week when we're recording this, which was the week 0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:34.480 of the Charlie Kirk memorializing when everyone pretended that ventilating 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:36.480 a Nazi was like the greatest tragedy that had the 0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:39.600 fallen American heroes. And I saw a lot of people 0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:43.600 who had been up until then relatively level headed suddenly 0:47:43.680 --> 0:47:45.680 really start to panic that week and feel like things 0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:47.840 were really And I think part of that was because 0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:53.440 with a man as absolutely risless and as obviously malicious 0:47:53.480 --> 0:47:57.799 and uninteresting as Charlie Kirk getting that treatment like he was, 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.000 you know, Robert Redford or whatever he was about it, 0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:04.600 I think that happening in Unison across all the media, 0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:10.000 I think people finally realized, like, oh, everything is totally captured, 0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:12.719 and the people who hadn't really thought that felt like 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:14.960 that there was sort of this unanimity, the unanimity you're 0:48:14.960 --> 0:48:18.000 talking about, because they're able to project this unanimity through 0:48:18.480 --> 0:48:21.479 this one sort of media voice, and like the fact 0:48:21.520 --> 0:48:24.279 that that was punctured by Jimmy Kimmel getting fired, and 0:48:24.320 --> 0:48:27.800 they're being like a genuine upswell of popular attention about 0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:31.160 the man show guy, like like who hasn't been funny, 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:33.719 like probably since he was fourteen or whatever. I think 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:35.080 a lot of people have focused on that as being 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:38.040 extremely embarrassing in cringe, which like, yeah, accurate, But I 0:48:38.040 --> 0:48:41.120 think like also like they couldn't even hold it together 0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:43.759 for a week, right, Like they couldn't even hold this 0:48:44.200 --> 0:48:45.640 full court press together for a week. 0:48:45.840 --> 0:48:47.480 They had that Charlie Kirk documentary. 0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:49.279 They were like, we're gonna film it on you know, 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:51.520 on Sinclair, all the places where we would be showing 0:48:51.560 --> 0:48:52.080 Jimmy Kimmel. 0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:53.760 They just canceled it. They put it on YouTube. 0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:56.799 Yeah, twenty six thousand views. This means I am very 0:48:56.880 --> 0:49:00.640 very proud of this. More people listen to me complaining 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:03.759 about the way that everything everywhere, all at once, was 0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:07.680 spreading the porschwise patriarchal ideology of the family. More people 0:49:08.040 --> 0:49:11.200 listen to me talk about that on this show that 0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:14.480 watched the stupid fucking Charlie gud worry. 0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:19.120 Sorry to that man, but people do not care, Like people. 0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:21.759 Don't care about that guy and and it didn't And 0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:24.680 also as you said the opening, his poles have gone down. 0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:26.920 People are like shut up about this, like they don't care. 0:49:26.960 --> 0:49:29.960 It doesn't work like this, like poles aren't everything. But 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:33.319 like I think this disconnect. It's so hard is that 0:49:33.400 --> 0:49:36.040 if you are mostly getting your information from a media environment, 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:38.120 which all of us do, Like that's how most of 0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:39.960 us get all of our information. That's this is not 0:49:40.000 --> 0:49:43.960 a judgment. It feels like everyone is like, you know, 0:49:44.320 --> 0:49:46.520 is at like half mast, you know, for their for 0:49:46.560 --> 0:49:48.680 their beautiful their beautiful boy. Look what they did to 0:49:48.680 --> 0:49:50.920 my beautiful boy with his tiny little face and his 0:49:51.360 --> 0:49:54.759 huge neck that like apparently was made of steel and 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:57.520 caught bullets. Like a Fox News article said that he 0:49:57.640 --> 0:50:00.920 was like particularly strong bodied and he kept saved other people. 0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:03.879 Okay, I didn't talk about this for a second because 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:06.279 this is so fucking un hite. What Okay, so his 0:50:06.520 --> 0:50:10.400 like surgeon or whatever was like, oh yeah he was. 0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:12.359 He started his surgeon wrote a thing about like this 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:15.359 bone that doesn't exist, yeah that he was like, oh yeah, 0:50:15.400 --> 0:50:18.360 he had this really thick bone there that stopped the bullet. 0:50:18.560 --> 0:50:21.160 And this got like picked up by like Fox News, 0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:25.600 who's that running a story about this magical iron bone 0:50:25.600 --> 0:50:29.400 in Charlie Kirk's neck that like God put there or 0:50:29.480 --> 0:50:32.640 something to save I just. 0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:35.560 It's it's so I can read the headline for you. 0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:36.399 Hang on, I've got it here. 0:50:36.560 --> 0:50:40.000 Oh god, this is Fox News on x There's a 0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:42.800 picture of Charlie Kirk that says surgeon says, Charlie Kirk's 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:46.400 body stopped bullet in quote absolute miracle that saved others, 0:50:46.440 --> 0:50:49.800 TPUSA says, and then quote man of steel, Charlie Kirk's 0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:52.000 body stopped a bullet that would typically quote just go 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:55.480 through everything and it was quote an absolute miracle. Nobody 0:50:55.480 --> 0:50:58.839 else was killed his surgeon. Tod's turning point, us, So 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:01.759 that's weird behavior that people don't like. 0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:03.600 That's not yeah. 0:51:04.160 --> 0:51:07.879 No, So I think like basically they have this capacity 0:51:07.960 --> 0:51:11.200 to do this like really really intense, unified message across 0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:14.080 the entire spectrum of the media, and we're seeing it 0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:18.239 again right now with like NPR publishing basically does tile 0:51:18.280 --> 0:51:20.680 it all actually cause autism, so the science. 0:51:20.320 --> 0:51:22.800 Isn't out yet, you know, or whatever like as their headline, 0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:23.000 you know. 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:27.080 Yeah, So like obviously, like that's scary if you're used 0:51:27.080 --> 0:51:30.080 to a reality which is shaped largely by the media, 0:51:30.239 --> 0:51:32.880 and and Trump has gotten into office twice based on 0:51:32.920 --> 0:51:34.520 a media reality shaping effect. 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:36.359 The media has been the. 0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:40.399 Main tool, both social and mainstream, for putting him into power. 0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:43.880 So it's understandable to take it seriously because it does 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:45.000 need to be taken seriously. 0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:48.000 But there's other stuff going on. 0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:52.360 Well, And like the funniest version of this was just 0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:57.440 how fast Disney caved on bringing Jimmy Kimmel back, yes, 0:51:57.600 --> 0:51:59.680 which was like sub one week. 0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:01.239 Yeah, no, it was sub one week. 0:52:01.280 --> 0:52:04.759 And you know, to me, that says that actually the 0:52:04.760 --> 0:52:07.880 boycott spread real fast and real far. Like there was 0:52:07.920 --> 0:52:10.799 a Disney adult on TikTok right who was sort of 0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:13.400 like giving people instructions on how to cancel their Disney 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:16.760 World vacations and was like canceling his Disney World wedding, 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:19.200 you know, and like this was like all happening really 0:52:19.239 --> 0:52:22.600 really fast. People were really mad. And you know, yeah, 0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:24.960 it's again it's goofy that it's over Jimmy Kimmel. But 0:52:24.960 --> 0:52:27.160 it's not really about Jimmy Kimmel, right, it's because everyone 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:27.879 hates this man. 0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:29.080 They hate this. 0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:33.719 Yeah, and people don't actually want this in dipshit to 0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:35.680 just literally and you know, and he's trying to do 0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:38.279 this again, right, he's apparently trying to sue Disney, like 0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:42.600 they don't want the fucking orange guy to be able 0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:45.279 to just straight up say what is legal to say 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:47.440 on TV. Yeah, which is the thing that he is 0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:48.560 attempting to do right now. 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:50.840 And the other thing about it that I think is 0:52:51.200 --> 0:52:55.240 really important and relevant is that a better dictatorship doesn't 0:52:55.360 --> 0:52:58.640 go to the press and fire this man. They pull 0:52:58.760 --> 0:53:02.600 strings behind this. They get him to retract like on 0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:05.200 his show in a way that causes no attention, and 0:53:05.239 --> 0:53:08.480 the people who follow Kimmel see it enough to understand 0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:10.319 that power has been pulled behind the strings, but they 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:11.920 probably don't really think much about it. 0:53:12.080 --> 0:53:12.319 Right. 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:16.840 That is how like real, really smooth smooth repression of 0:53:16.880 --> 0:53:20.439 a free press into a bot press involves a lot 0:53:20.480 --> 0:53:22.760 of strings being pulled behind the scenes, and in fact, 0:53:23.200 --> 0:53:25.600 it has been happening for twenty years in America. There 0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:27.560 has been a lot of that going on. Part of 0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:30.800 what's so obscene about this whole situation in a certain 0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:34.520 way is that Trump just needs to do less. Things 0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:37.720 have been set up for fascism for a while. 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:40.240 He just needs to do less. And he can't help himself. 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:43.399 They can't help themselves because they're you know, because they 0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:45.320 need it to be in this sort of public mode. 0:53:45.320 --> 0:53:47.040 And also he's lost his you know, his juice. 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:49.440 But yeah, yeah, well and it's also just like, I mean, 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:53.520 this is so partially Trump is just like pathologically obsessed 0:53:53.560 --> 0:53:57.359 with late night comedy, right because he's a TV guy 0:53:57.440 --> 0:54:00.640 and so he's just mad on Red and maden nude online. 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:03.440 Except like the previous version of it were like you 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:05.799 were just like throwing shit at your television set in 0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:09.720 like nineteen fifty five, which is a real really terrified 0:54:09.719 --> 0:54:12.840 thing to have in the presidency. But you know, speaking 0:54:12.880 --> 0:54:15.480 of speaking of having things in the presidency, these products 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:18.920 and services, look, if they've painted more, you get better transitions. 0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:33.279 Yeah, but they don't, so vote for them. 0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:37.640 We are back, So you know, I think it's worth 0:54:37.640 --> 0:54:40.640 noting that, Like yeah, no, like like the immediate financial 0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:44.799 pressure of you know, just just the collision of weight 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:48.920 hold on like the people who buy things, which is 0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:51.640 most people admittedly, like Disney adults are a very narrow 0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:56.400 subset of people, but like the speed and rapidity of 0:54:56.440 --> 0:55:00.560 which reality, which is people don't like this guy hit 0:55:01.080 --> 0:55:03.640 the like sort of you know, just just like just 0:55:03.640 --> 0:55:06.920 like sort of smashed through this like tunnel of the 0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.880 Charlie Kirk stuff was just unbelievable, you know, and like 0:55:09.880 --> 0:55:13.080 part of this this is something that Marissa Cabas from 0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:15.440 uh the Handbasket reported, which is that part of what 0:55:15.520 --> 0:55:17.359 was going on with Disney was about to roll out 0:55:17.360 --> 0:55:19.719 a price increase. Yeah, and so they had to bring 0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:23.319 it back so they could do their price increase, which well, brother, 0:55:23.480 --> 0:55:25.120 just delay the price increase if we're trying to do 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:28.840 authoritaries whatever. Okay, you know, I am happy these people 0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:32.040 suck at doing this. It's great, we like it. We 0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:34.520 like that they're bad at it, right, Yeah, you know, 0:55:34.560 --> 0:55:36.759 like Disney is being pressured here, but I think it's 0:55:36.880 --> 0:55:40.520 worth talking about something that you have been spending a 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:44.879 ungodly amount of time in the minds of, yeah, which 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:49.759 is Disney and fascist Oh boy. 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:53.280 Hey, yeah, I mean, part of what's been so funny 0:55:53.320 --> 0:55:56.000 about this week for me personally, and that's what really 0:55:56.040 --> 0:55:59.960 matters obviously, is that is that is that, like you know, 0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:01.879 when we went into this administration and we started seeing 0:56:01.880 --> 0:56:03.480 what they were doing, I was like, I can't believe 0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:07.399 I'm writing a book about free trade and law fair right, 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:09.680 like warfare by law, like you know, like sort of 0:56:09.719 --> 0:56:14.160 this massive corporate legal apparatus that has been supported by 0:56:14.200 --> 0:56:17.440 global trade regimes because they're ripping it apart right like that, 0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:20.960 Like the pharma tariffs is like a huge blow to 0:56:21.000 --> 0:56:24.120 the IP regime. Sorry, the intellectual property regime. The IP 0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:26.120 regime is what I analyze in the book I've just 0:56:26.120 --> 0:56:28.520 written and is coming out in April, and it's about 0:56:28.560 --> 0:56:31.440 how Disney really was like a sort of pioneer in 0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:35.000 understanding the value of intellectual property and manipulating it and 0:56:35.040 --> 0:56:38.040 how you can see that through the entire corporate and 0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:41.160 artistic history of Disney Studios. So it's about like Disney 0:56:41.200 --> 0:56:43.120 movies and how they're all connected. They actually all sort 0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:45.600 of tell stories about IP in certain ways, and how 0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:47.759 we sort of miss that angle on them very often, 0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:50.960 very frequently, and misunderstand how much IP functions in the 0:56:51.000 --> 0:56:54.880 broader society because, for example, fast fashion companies, Now I 0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:56.120 know you said talk about Disney, I'm. 0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:56.600 Talking about something else. 0:56:56.640 --> 0:57:00.239 Say fast fashion companies, they actually own very very read 0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:04.800 little materially, so their offices are leased. Mostly their factories 0:57:04.840 --> 0:57:08.440 are contracted. You know, everyone who makes the sewing is contracted. 0:57:08.440 --> 0:57:11.520 They might own their stores, but they probably lease their stores. Right, 0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:14.120 They like have very few direct employees other than like 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:17.080 store level if they don't franchise, but they might even franchise. 0:57:17.120 --> 0:57:19.120 They might not even employ the store level people, but 0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:22.160 they probably do store level people corporate employees. And then 0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:25.080 they own their IP and maybe they own a headquarters 0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:28.640 building somewhere right like that's a fancy building, and everything 0:57:28.640 --> 0:57:34.040 else is quote unquote owned by them, controlling the designs, 0:57:34.200 --> 0:57:37.120 the logos, the images, and they can guarantee that they 0:57:37.120 --> 0:57:41.040 can make almost infinite money off of that. Because the 0:57:41.160 --> 0:57:45.080 global trade regime enforces copyright law in a way that 0:57:45.600 --> 0:57:47.360 would make people who would like to see any human 0:57:47.440 --> 0:57:52.080 rights thing enacted blush with shame, and it is incredibly effective. 0:57:52.080 --> 0:57:53.959 It is the one thing that international law does quite 0:57:53.960 --> 0:57:58.160 well is enforced copyright YEP and trademark and patent. So 0:57:58.360 --> 0:58:00.400 when you have stuff like the you know, you can 0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:03.040 no longer ship under eight hundred dollars without tariffs. Like 0:58:03.160 --> 0:58:07.000 those companies are entirely reliant on being able to move 0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:09.320 these products as cheaply and as quickly as possible because 0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:12.320 they don't own ships, they don't own factories, they don't 0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:14.520 even really own the you know, they they own the 0:58:14.520 --> 0:58:16.520 shirts only when they arrive on American shores. 0:58:16.560 --> 0:58:19.040 Really, this has always been the dream of reproduction of capital, 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:20.760 which is to have a company with no assets that 0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:24.800 makes money exactly, and they're so close, they're so cleanly. 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:26.240 Close, and all this stuff is destroying it. 0:58:26.280 --> 0:58:27.920 So I was like, well, great, now I've written this 0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:30.560 whole book about how Disney you know, is actually really 0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:33.080 like a state actor, and like they have they have 0:58:33.200 --> 0:58:35.480 like a sovereign territory in Florida that people talk about 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:38.720 a little bit called the Reedy Creek Improvement District you 0:58:38.760 --> 0:58:39.800 may or may not know about. 0:58:40.000 --> 0:58:41.919 People talked about Celebration Florida a bit. 0:58:41.800 --> 0:58:43.440 When that happened in the two thousands, which is like 0:58:43.480 --> 0:58:46.160 a weird creepy company town that they run. They actually 0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:49.760 own a huge section of It's like two counties it's 0:58:49.800 --> 0:58:53.360 larger than the size of Manhattan in central Florida. Jesus Christ, 0:58:54.320 --> 0:58:57.120 what the conflict with the Santis over that don't say 0:58:57.120 --> 0:59:00.920 gay bill, which people you know, interpreted largely through the 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:03.440 lens of the you know, horrifyingly reactionary politics. 0:59:03.440 --> 0:59:04.840 Who's pushing, which is understandable. 0:59:05.240 --> 0:59:08.520 Is also a conflict over sovereignty in Florida because they 0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:11.120 don't pay taxes in the same way, they make their 0:59:11.120 --> 0:59:13.000 own laws, they have their own police force. 0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:17.480 So basically, Jesus Christ. 0:59:16.880 --> 0:59:18.280 Is they made the first networks. 0:59:18.360 --> 0:59:20.480 They did it, they did it, and they've been doing 0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:24.560 it for thirty years. That probably sixty sixty nine is 0:59:24.560 --> 0:59:27.040 when they get the deal for READI creat They've had 0:59:27.080 --> 0:59:30.080 it for a long a long time. People don't love 0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:31.640 to talk about this for some reason. I think it's 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:34.680 really interesting, terrifying, but really interesting. But the reason that 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:37.640 that's all really really connected to intellectual property is because 0:59:38.120 --> 0:59:41.200 one of the things that Disney did, despite you know, 0:59:41.440 --> 0:59:46.600 having literally their own statelet in the middle of Florida, 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:50.640 is maintaining themselves as the magic kingdom. They are associated 0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:54.520 with childhood nostalgia magic. Even as they've grown and grown 0:59:54.520 --> 0:59:58.440 and grown. This behemoth. Like they've managed to largely stay 0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:01.520 connected to this sort of image of American innocence and childhood. 1:00:01.520 --> 1:00:04.280 And there have been moments in the nineties they overreached 1:00:04.280 --> 1:00:05.760 a bit. There's been like you know, there have been problems, 1:00:05.800 --> 1:00:08.840 and you can read all about that. But basically they 1:00:08.840 --> 1:00:12.160 did image management on all these different levels. So they 1:00:12.200 --> 1:00:15.360 managed Mickey Mouse, They managed the law around copyright, like 1:00:15.400 --> 1:00:19.480 copyright extensions famously were largely driven by Disney lobbying in 1:00:19.560 --> 1:00:22.240 nineteen seventy six and then again in nineteen ninety eight. Anyway, 1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:24.560 so all of these things, I'm trying to reduce a 1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:27.360 very big argument to a very small package here, But basically, 1:00:27.960 --> 1:00:31.320 Disney designed and the and the other IP businesses that 1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:34.400 work around it have figured out that if you can 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:38.720 control the way your product appears in the market, and 1:00:38.760 --> 1:00:42.040 you can control the images and the feelings people have 1:00:42.120 --> 1:00:44.120 about them and the sort of thoughts and stuff, you 1:00:44.160 --> 1:00:47.720 can really do whatever you want materially behind the scenes, 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:50.880 right like that, Like controlling an image is so powerful. 1:00:50.920 --> 1:00:54.160 And part of why like what's happening with Disney, weh 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:56.880 it's falling apart so fast, is because if they give 1:00:56.880 --> 1:01:00.440 in to Trump at all it requires shattering that image 1:01:00.440 --> 1:01:02.840 that has been a century in the making, right, Like, 1:01:02.840 --> 1:01:04.960 like part of what was so brutal about the thing 1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:08.040 with Jimmy Kimmel was like, it's just obvious that Disney 1:01:08.080 --> 1:01:10.480 did that, that the corporate people did that, and they 1:01:10.480 --> 1:01:13.560 did it because Trump did it publicly. Trump is humiliating 1:01:13.600 --> 1:01:18.480 these these corporations publicly. Right, He's humiliating them. He's forcing 1:01:18.520 --> 1:01:22.720 them to come to heal. It's not working popularly, He's 1:01:22.720 --> 1:01:24.280 not capturing anti corporate sentiment. 1:01:24.360 --> 1:01:25.400 Really, people are. 1:01:25.280 --> 1:01:27.360 Like, why are you doing that over Jimmy Kimmel, Like 1:01:27.400 --> 1:01:30.120 that's weird, You're a creepy Yeah. But then also he's 1:01:30.120 --> 1:01:34.280 also destroying legitimacy of everyone. It's pulling everything down around him. 1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:37.240 It's a family annihilation, right, He's so angry about twenty 1:01:37.280 --> 1:01:39.680 twenty and like being tried that he's just going to 1:01:40.040 --> 1:01:41.480 rip everything down around him. 1:01:41.720 --> 1:01:41.959 Wow. 1:01:42.560 --> 1:01:44.440 I just said a lot of different things, but all 1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:47.080 of which is to say, like, what's so interesting about 1:01:47.120 --> 1:01:50.280 like the Trump regime in some ways and the relationship 1:01:50.320 --> 1:01:53.200 to Disney is that Disney has for so long built 1:01:53.200 --> 1:01:56.520 this image of America that has managed to persist like 1:01:56.640 --> 1:02:00.960 across and against you know, a century of increasingly violent, 1:02:01.040 --> 1:02:04.480 ineffective and visible imperialism like in Korea and Vietnam and 1:02:04.480 --> 1:02:07.440 then Iraq and Afghanistan. It was so crucial to the 1:02:07.480 --> 1:02:12.240 image of what American capitalism was. And then Trump, a 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:15.480 man who is just as built by images as the 1:02:15.480 --> 1:02:19.120 Disney Corporation, comes and is just like just is ripping 1:02:19.120 --> 1:02:21.320 it all down because he's sort of you know, one 1:02:21.440 --> 1:02:24.080 gaping narcisstic wound right like and running a country. 1:02:24.160 --> 1:02:26.560 Right yeah. So if you look at the history of. 1:02:26.480 --> 1:02:31.000 Like Disney in general, Hollywood, and intellectual property management in general, 1:02:31.560 --> 1:02:33.520 what you can see is the way that we have 1:02:33.640 --> 1:02:36.280 that this this media apparatus has been built. When I 1:02:36.280 --> 1:02:38.520 say media apparatus, I think people tend to think, you know, 1:02:38.520 --> 1:02:40.960 when you talk about images or the spectacle or whatever, 1:02:41.240 --> 1:02:42.400 they just think about. 1:02:42.200 --> 1:02:43.000 Stuff on TV. 1:02:43.520 --> 1:02:46.480 But like, no, it's also all the products that circulate 1:02:46.520 --> 1:02:48.960 through society. And it's like the way that you get 1:02:48.960 --> 1:02:51.240 paid for your job with you know, like the idea 1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:53.360 of clout is like actually part of that, Like it 1:02:53.760 --> 1:02:55.800 does function as a form of payment, right, Like it's 1:02:55.800 --> 1:02:57.919 not like people make fun of that, like oh good, 1:02:57.960 --> 1:03:00.240 but like then everyone acts as though it's real, right, 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:01.880 and when everyone acts though. 1:03:01.720 --> 1:03:03.200 It's real, it's real. It's a social relation. 1:03:03.640 --> 1:03:07.880 So the entire spectacular economy, which is built entirely on 1:03:07.960 --> 1:03:11.040 images that rely only on being forced through a sort 1:03:11.080 --> 1:03:14.080 of massive group thing from the top of the economy 1:03:14.120 --> 1:03:17.680 and the political class, was built by these corporations, but 1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:20.440 it was built explicitly to you know, reap as much 1:03:20.440 --> 1:03:22.320 wealth as possible for their shareholders. 1:03:22.360 --> 1:03:23.920 Yeah, yeah, have to make money. Yeah. 1:03:24.000 --> 1:03:27.160 Trump is too perfect a product of that, and this 1:03:27.200 --> 1:03:29.080 regime is too perfect a product of that. And now 1:03:29.080 --> 1:03:31.840 it's all it's all you know, it is its own 1:03:31.840 --> 1:03:32.640 grave digger. 1:03:32.560 --> 1:03:32.760 You know. 1:03:33.200 --> 1:03:35.760 Yeah. The port has a line about like the way 1:03:35.760 --> 1:03:37.920 that the spectacle sort of like intrudes into and like 1:03:37.960 --> 1:03:40.560 becomes reality. And like if Disney is sort of like 1:03:40.680 --> 1:03:45.560 the stage manager of this, right, Like Trump just is 1:03:45.600 --> 1:03:49.000 the thing like come to life and powering through it, 1:03:49.040 --> 1:03:51.640 and she doesn't because he is the image and not 1:03:52.440 --> 1:03:55.640 the thing that creates the image. He has different interests, yes, 1:03:55.800 --> 1:03:59.360 than the people who create the image. Who are you know, 1:03:59.520 --> 1:04:03.560 trying to make money. Trump is trying to like satisfy 1:04:03.680 --> 1:04:09.600 all of his like vindictive sort of versissistic rage. 1:04:10.040 --> 1:04:10.400 Exactly. 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:13.000 It's worth remembering that, you know, although the damage he's 1:04:13.040 --> 1:04:17.520 doing is extremely real. Yeah, he genuinely is fighting over 1:04:17.600 --> 1:04:20.400 the election and over like Komi, Like he is like 1:04:20.760 --> 1:04:23.160 he really believes these things. This is a regime that 1:04:23.200 --> 1:04:27.920 believes the things that for example, Carl Rove would teach 1:04:27.920 --> 1:04:30.400 people to say to get away with doing what they 1:04:30.400 --> 1:04:32.600 wanted to do. Right, these are these are as you said, 1:04:32.640 --> 1:04:34.880 they are the image itself, they are true believers in 1:04:34.920 --> 1:04:37.560 the spectacle, and as such break the fourth wall, right 1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:39.760 if we're going to use a theater metaphor here as such, 1:04:39.840 --> 1:04:42.320 they end up they end up like just destroying it. 1:04:42.400 --> 1:04:46.840 And I think Trump's power was that he could puncture 1:04:46.880 --> 1:04:49.960 the spectacle, right, and then there were all the people 1:04:50.200 --> 1:04:52.320 you as you describe, and the people who make the spectacle, 1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:53.880 maintain the image, make the image. 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:55.000 They were around him. 1:04:55.160 --> 1:04:57.520 So they would just they would just close up the puncture, 1:04:57.520 --> 1:04:59.920 they would close up the susture. They'd work really really hard, right. 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:01.360 So what I mean by that is like Trump would 1:05:01.360 --> 1:05:05.120 say something absolutely unhinged, and the New York Times would 1:05:05.120 --> 1:05:08.200 be like the controversial statement from President Trump, right, which 1:05:08.200 --> 1:05:10.720 like completely normalizes it, and like everyone would sort of 1:05:10.720 --> 1:05:13.280 pretend that he hadn't just said the most unhinged lunatication. 1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:15.120 And this is the first administration I'm talking about, right, 1:05:15.600 --> 1:05:17.360 Like people would just pretend that it was normal. 1:05:17.560 --> 1:05:19.840 Yeah, that he was speaking of four seasons total landscage. 1:05:19.880 --> 1:05:24.680 Yeah, right, like just like shit would happen exactly and 1:05:24.720 --> 1:05:26.560 everyone would sort of try it would normalize it. And 1:05:26.560 --> 1:05:30.960 that normalization repaired the fabric of the spectacle. And it 1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:33.920 made Trump's fans really happy because you get to watch 1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:38.720 August institutions such as the Washington Post going over backwards 1:05:38.760 --> 1:05:43.560 to make an obvious, obscene lie seem like a reasonable claim. Right, 1:05:43.760 --> 1:05:46.760 So they were humiliated in fixing the spectacle behind him 1:05:46.800 --> 1:05:50.560 as he punctured it. Right, But he he has actually 1:05:50.600 --> 1:05:54.960 too successfully gotten rid of everyone who did that repair. 1:05:55.520 --> 1:05:58.160 He actually thought they were his enemies, the Rhinos, right, 1:05:58.160 --> 1:06:01.520 the Republicans who kept him in line, the Democrats, the media. 1:06:01.680 --> 1:06:02.920 They have been purged. 1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:05.640 They have all been purged and controlled, and now they 1:06:05.680 --> 1:06:08.480 all just repeat what he says. And what ends up 1:06:08.480 --> 1:06:11.720 happening is that the spectacle just remains torn and people 1:06:11.800 --> 1:06:15.120 see through it like it's just not working anymore. And 1:06:15.160 --> 1:06:18.400 I think what's scary is that it still feels like 1:06:18.440 --> 1:06:21.440 they're repairing the spectacle around his claims because the entire 1:06:21.520 --> 1:06:23.360 media is speaking as one, and the Democrats are speaking 1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:25.240 as one, and the Republicans are speaking as one, and 1:06:25.280 --> 1:06:29.520 they're all agreeing. You know, we imagine someone else, John 1:06:29.600 --> 1:06:32.280 Q Public sitting there and seeing that and going, oh, okay, 1:06:32.280 --> 1:06:34.120 it's all pretty normal, Like, oh, Charlie Kirk was a 1:06:34.120 --> 1:06:36.120 good guy. You know, we sort of project that that 1:06:36.160 --> 1:06:40.840 person is there. But actually more and more people who 1:06:40.880 --> 1:06:43.400 would have been like that in the first regime are like, well, 1:06:43.440 --> 1:06:44.480 I don't believe any of this shit. 1:06:44.720 --> 1:06:47.600 Yeah, yeah, And I think it's also we're saying, like 1:06:47.920 --> 1:06:49.640 the way that we're talking about this in terms of 1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:51.760 his and popularity and reality, and you know, in terms 1:06:51.800 --> 1:06:53.720 of why it feels like this, it doesn't mean that 1:06:53.960 --> 1:06:57.760 there's not horrible shit happening constantly, right, And that's the 1:06:57.840 --> 1:07:00.160 other part of his ability to sort of eliminate that, 1:07:00.200 --> 1:07:03.440 the legitimization part of the spectacle was that like that 1:07:03.720 --> 1:07:05.960 it was to some extent restraining him, right, Like, that's 1:07:05.960 --> 1:07:08.320 the reason why there wasn't just like there were a 1:07:08.360 --> 1:07:10.000 bunch of deportations in their Trump There are a bunch 1:07:10.000 --> 1:07:15.760 of deportations under Biden. The thing that's happening now is 1:07:15.880 --> 1:07:19.880 not the thing that was happening before, right, Yeah, the 1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:24.040 Secretary of the Interior wasn't showing up at like five 1:07:24.240 --> 1:07:27.240 thirty in the morning in a suburb of Chicago to 1:07:27.320 --> 1:07:29.960 blow up someone's door and drag a bunch of American 1:07:30.040 --> 1:07:33.040 citizens out of their house. Like that was like not 1:07:33.520 --> 1:07:37.240 happening yeah before, And that's off. It's just you know, 1:07:37.360 --> 1:07:43.240 it's unbelievably horrifying. And it's also not popular, like even 1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:46.440 those approval rating numbers, right, Like, you know, like his 1:07:46.480 --> 1:07:49.360 immigration policy in theory is the most popular thing he's doing. 1:07:49.480 --> 1:07:55.760 And also ICE can't do mass, large scale raids because 1:07:55.800 --> 1:07:58.280 if they stay in one place for too long, so 1:07:58.360 --> 1:08:00.760 many people will show up. They can't do it. And 1:08:00.800 --> 1:08:03.640 you know, and the lightning raids that they've been doing 1:08:03.680 --> 1:08:07.240 have been really brutal and really effective, but like those 1:08:07.280 --> 1:08:10.920 are not the tactics a stormtrooper force that broadly has 1:08:10.960 --> 1:08:14.720 the has popular consents. Yeah, right, they don't move like that. 1:08:15.320 --> 1:08:17.840 And you know, I talked about this. I guess it'll 1:08:17.880 --> 1:08:20.599 be like two weeks ago on executive's order. But like 1:08:21.240 --> 1:08:25.240 people are like stopping these raids in like Wheton. Like 1:08:25.439 --> 1:08:28.240 Wheton used to be literally the center of the base 1:08:28.280 --> 1:08:31.320 of power of like the Bush administration moral majority shit. 1:08:31.520 --> 1:08:34.639 For like forty years, this was like the center of 1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:39.120 the Christian Right. And they have lost Wheton. It's been 1:08:39.200 --> 1:08:41.880 like electing democrats, and it's not just leatin democrats, like 1:08:42.320 --> 1:08:44.519 the speed of which has moved from electing democrats to 1:08:44.680 --> 1:08:47.000 like a bunch of people showed up and are stopping 1:08:47.040 --> 1:08:50.760 like lightning ice raids, which is really impressive, genuinely, very 1:08:50.800 --> 1:08:53.080 very impressive organizing. It's very hard to do. Most times 1:08:53.120 --> 1:08:54.800 it doesn't work because you can't get there fast enough. 1:08:55.080 --> 1:08:57.600 And somehow again like the place that used to be 1:08:57.640 --> 1:09:00.559 the capital of the moral majority, it's like Jerry Well's 1:09:00.560 --> 1:09:05.320 fucking like home domain, right, like the epicenter of like 1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:09.040 of the Christian Right is in doing the anti ice 1:09:09.120 --> 1:09:12.519 raid shit like what like and this is the thing 1:09:12.560 --> 1:09:13.760 as we're going on for like you know, probably like 1:09:13.800 --> 1:09:15.960 four or five years, but like them do it like 1:09:16.640 --> 1:09:20.840 really serious, very good direct action. The entire terrain of 1:09:20.880 --> 1:09:23.800 the world is shifting beneath us, while all of these 1:09:23.840 --> 1:09:27.080 people constantly try to like paint over this like little 1:09:27.120 --> 1:09:29.280 tiny scaffolding they've set up to be like no, no, 1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:30.960 the ground's still there. There's all these holes in the 1:09:31.000 --> 1:09:32.760 middle of it, but like, you know, we're gonna put 1:09:32.800 --> 1:09:35.479 us some tarp that like looks like the sky beneath 1:09:35.520 --> 1:09:37.639 it. It's like, wait, why is the sky down? Yeah, don't 1:09:37.640 --> 1:09:41.200 ask questions to keep walking exactly. 1:09:41.600 --> 1:09:43.160 And I think that's like, I think that's really important 1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:45.080 and a thing that I think happens sometimes when I 1:09:45.120 --> 1:09:47.280 sort of make this analysis with my friends. I think 1:09:47.280 --> 1:09:49.519 they think that I'm saying that like fascism isn't here, 1:09:50.120 --> 1:09:51.960 or that like this isn't a fascist regime, or that 1:09:52.040 --> 1:09:53.080 like they don't want to like. 1:09:53.360 --> 1:09:55.639 Do Nazism like they very clearly do. 1:09:55.920 --> 1:09:56.160 Yeah. 1:09:56.240 --> 1:09:58.800 My analysis has been like since February. 1:09:58.840 --> 1:10:01.160 I mean part of what's happened is in February, when 1:10:01.160 --> 1:10:02.479 the dose stuff was going on, I was like, well, 1:10:02.560 --> 1:10:04.960 the American Republic is over, like we'll never be able 1:10:05.000 --> 1:10:07.120 to go back, Like now what do we do? So 1:10:07.160 --> 1:10:09.640 I think like a lot of the disjuncture and the 1:10:09.640 --> 1:10:12.760 confusion and the craziness feeling that people are having is 1:10:12.800 --> 1:10:16.360 because people are coming to those realizations on separate timelines. 1:10:16.360 --> 1:10:18.280 Because it's really hard to accept it's a hard and 1:10:18.280 --> 1:10:21.479 complicated thing to feel and to recognize that actually, like 1:10:21.880 --> 1:10:24.760 this is dying, Like this is a dying regime and 1:10:24.800 --> 1:10:28.200 a dying empire, and like that does not mean it's 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:30.840 less dangerous. In fact, historically it's often more dangerous and 1:10:30.920 --> 1:10:34.640 it's death throws. And it does not mean when you 1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:36.600 and I talk about him being ineffective, it does not 1:10:36.760 --> 1:10:39.760 mean that the stuff he's doing isn't terrifying. We're both 1:10:39.880 --> 1:10:42.360 trans women who organize with other trans women, Like we 1:10:42.439 --> 1:10:44.360 know about it, okay, y'all, Like we are dealing with 1:10:44.400 --> 1:10:48.680 the fallout all the time. But like the situations that 1:10:49.200 --> 1:10:52.800 we could be going through, the situations that they could 1:10:52.840 --> 1:10:55.400 be achieving that with the public that they were handed 1:10:55.400 --> 1:10:58.479 by the Biden administration that had broken solidarity around COVID, 1:10:58.640 --> 1:11:01.280 that had created an effective red scare around Gaza, that 1:11:01.360 --> 1:11:04.439 had like you know, basically perpetuated two genocides and gotten 1:11:04.439 --> 1:11:06.840 liberals to like say that that was normal and good, right, 1:11:07.200 --> 1:11:10.320 Like that was a very very scary public yea to 1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:14.960 hand to Nazis two now with nukes, right, And like 1:11:15.200 --> 1:11:17.680 I think, you know, we do ourselves a disservice when 1:11:17.680 --> 1:11:20.880 the only fascist regimes, we think about are Nazism and 1:11:20.960 --> 1:11:23.000 we think that like it's inevitably like going to be 1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:25.519 just like the Nazis, or even if we just say, well, 1:11:25.560 --> 1:11:27.280 it could be more like Italy. Like there are dozens 1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:30.599 of different dictatorships. Yeah, across the history. I don't expect 1:11:30.600 --> 1:11:32.680 everyone to study all of them, but like, but like 1:11:32.720 --> 1:11:33.840 it's worth understanding. 1:11:34.000 --> 1:11:38.639 Learn a third one, pick one, literally pick one, fucking 1:11:39.200 --> 1:11:41.719 anyone that's got the maid too. There are so many 1:11:42.120 --> 1:11:43.160 like you have you are. 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:44.479 Spoiled for exactly. 1:11:44.520 --> 1:11:46.080 Yeah, yeah, you can do. You could do if you know, 1:11:46.240 --> 1:11:46.960 pick a decade. 1:11:47.160 --> 1:11:48.760 You know, you like the seventies, go for swat though 1:11:48.760 --> 1:11:52.320 in Indonesia, you like the eighties Brazilian military dictatorship, no problem, Like, 1:11:52.400 --> 1:11:54.040 or you could do Korea in the eighties. You've got 1:11:54.040 --> 1:11:57.320 lots of choices. Oh, the fifties, go for Greece, no problem, don't. 1:11:57.120 --> 1:11:57.640 Worry about it. 1:11:57.800 --> 1:11:59.800 The reason that I bring all that up is just 1:11:59.800 --> 1:12:03.240 to say that, like, things are really bad and if 1:12:03.320 --> 1:12:06.880 we don't, you know, throw down, this will successfully build 1:12:07.560 --> 1:12:10.640 an authoritarian fascist state eventually, just by the sheer inertia 1:12:10.680 --> 1:12:13.160 of the power that they have available on the time 1:12:13.200 --> 1:12:16.240 that they can wait. But as you're saying, and as 1:12:16.360 --> 1:12:20.040 I've been sort of seeing, also, there's tremendous amounts of resistance. 1:12:20.240 --> 1:12:23.680 It is completely uncovered. It is not being seen. But 1:12:23.760 --> 1:12:26.360 because they live in the spectacle that they themselves have made, 1:12:26.920 --> 1:12:30.639 they also don't see and understand their level of resistance. 1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:33.439 Like they've just organized the FBI, right they fired about 1:12:33.479 --> 1:12:35.800 like was it like a fifth of FBI agents like 1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:38.360 headed agents, and then like a bunch more are now 1:12:38.400 --> 1:12:41.479 doing like street crime and are like being put into 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:42.040 ice raids. 1:12:42.040 --> 1:12:43.920 And people talk about that as being terrifying, and it 1:12:43.960 --> 1:12:44.559 is terrifying. 1:12:44.680 --> 1:12:47.120 The desire they have to do really brutal ice raids 1:12:47.120 --> 1:12:49.560 and to use every resource available in them is scary. 1:12:50.000 --> 1:12:53.120 But also if they don't have the FBI's eyes on 1:12:53.160 --> 1:12:54.040 the ball. 1:12:53.760 --> 1:12:54.960 Which they clearly don't anymore. 1:12:54.960 --> 1:12:58.439 They have redirected the FBI, they are not nearly as 1:12:58.479 --> 1:13:00.439 cognizant of what's going on in terms of distance as 1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:01.719 they were even six months ago. 1:13:01.960 --> 1:13:04.280 No, like if you look at the guy who shot 1:13:04.360 --> 1:13:06.920 Charlie Kirk, right, this is like Carly Kirk is like 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:10.080 their guy. Right that the FBI is so stripped down 1:13:10.160 --> 1:13:11.840 right now that with a full court press, the only 1:13:11.880 --> 1:13:14.959 reason they caught that guy was because he didn't understand 1:13:15.080 --> 1:13:19.400 that discord wasn't private, and he like dropped his gun 1:13:19.400 --> 1:13:20.040 and didn't pick it. 1:13:20.080 --> 1:13:21.680 Up again, and his dad recognized it. 1:13:21.760 --> 1:13:23.760 Right, And if he had done those two things, they 1:13:23.840 --> 1:13:27.360 wouldn't have found him, Like they didn't catch him. He 1:13:27.600 --> 1:13:32.880 turned himself in, right, And that's again someone assassinated like 1:13:33.080 --> 1:13:37.120 their guy and they couldn't find him. Like this repressive 1:13:37.120 --> 1:13:40.280 apparatus it is really really scary and very good at 1:13:40.280 --> 1:13:42.240 doing the thing that it's focused on doing right now, 1:13:42.320 --> 1:13:45.720 which is like dragging immigrant families from their homes at 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:48.360 like five in the morning by blowing their fucking doors 1:13:48.400 --> 1:13:52.320 down and like dragging them away to a prison. Right, 1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:56.360 It's not good at anything else. And the thing, right 1:13:56.400 --> 1:13:58.519 that is a very very good way to create an 1:13:58.560 --> 1:14:02.639 engine of you know, like immense human misery that who's 1:14:02.640 --> 1:14:04.960 spectacle they can sell, But it's not actually a good 1:14:04.960 --> 1:14:08.240 way to hold together an authoritarian dictatorship. We have seen 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:14.160 very very successful sort of dictatorships in the last like 1:14:14.479 --> 1:14:17.160 twenty thirty years, right, yeah, And you know, like they 1:14:17.160 --> 1:14:18.719 take a bunch of forms. I think, like the most 1:14:18.760 --> 1:14:23.760 classically like nineteen thirties Nazi Party one is Modi in India, yep, 1:14:24.000 --> 1:14:26.200 and Modi India has done the thing in the sense 1:14:26.200 --> 1:14:30.240 of like has really really successfully transformed the consciousness of 1:14:30.320 --> 1:14:34.880 people in India to this sort of like unbelievably unhinged 1:14:35.160 --> 1:14:39.639 right wing fascist version of like Hindu supremacy that hasn't 1:14:39.680 --> 1:14:40.839 happened here. 1:14:40.920 --> 1:14:43.679 Right, you know, it's worth knowing that the RSS, which 1:14:43.720 --> 1:14:46.280 is his brown shirts, like has four. 1:14:46.120 --> 1:14:47.040 Million people in it. 1:14:47.120 --> 1:14:49.320 Yeah, yeah, right, Like, I mean you know it has million. 1:14:49.400 --> 1:14:52.280 They have millions of brown Shirts, right, Like Ice is 1:14:52.320 --> 1:14:56.240 having trouble hiring twelve thousand extra agents in a continent 1:14:56.479 --> 1:14:59.240 of four hundred million people. Again, this doesn't mean it 1:14:59.360 --> 1:15:01.640 everything's fine, but yeah, like if you look at that, 1:15:02.000 --> 1:15:03.800 if you look at Ernolan and Turkey, or you look 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:07.719 at Putin and Russia, or even Orbon to a different degree, 1:15:07.720 --> 1:15:11.200 in Hungary, like they slow rolled it, right, They went 1:15:11.280 --> 1:15:15.400 through a few elections that were like slightly sketchy but 1:15:15.479 --> 1:15:19.479 basically normal, like they like, and they just slowly built power, 1:15:19.520 --> 1:15:21.200 and it took them a decade to get to the 1:15:21.200 --> 1:15:23.400 point where they were openly doing the authoritarian stuff that 1:15:23.479 --> 1:15:27.160 Trump was trying to do. And like, again there's no rules, 1:15:27.840 --> 1:15:30.240 it might work what Trump is doing. But like compared 1:15:30.360 --> 1:15:33.400 to Milay in Argentina, right, who they all loved so much, 1:15:33.640 --> 1:15:37.799 who came into power similarly to Trump started throwing truth 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:41.000 bombs everywhere, you know, because like ripped apart and has 1:15:41.040 --> 1:15:43.400 now had to come hat in hand begging for a 1:15:43.400 --> 1:15:46.760 bailout to the United States yep, because his whole thing, 1:15:47.240 --> 1:15:49.120 his regime, fell apart within twenty four months. 1:15:49.240 --> 1:15:49.479 Yep. 1:15:49.560 --> 1:15:52.960 There is ultimately a material limit to what you can do. 1:15:53.800 --> 1:15:57.080 You can't just speak reality into existence for that long. 1:15:57.240 --> 1:15:59.759 Yeah, And that's the thing, right, if it was possible, 1:15:59.760 --> 1:16:01.960 did you speak reality into existence, we would all be 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:05.080 living on a neo conservatism, right, there would be like 1:16:05.200 --> 1:16:08.400 a pure, well functioning oil extracting American client state in 1:16:08.400 --> 1:16:10.200 a rock right now. And I don't know what the 1:16:10.200 --> 1:16:12.719 fuck they would have done with a guinnessent, but like if, if, 1:16:12.760 --> 1:16:15.040 if you could just do the thing. And I talked 1:16:15.040 --> 1:16:16.240 about this on the show. I talked about this on 1:16:16.280 --> 1:16:18.320 the show all the time, right, the thing the neo 1:16:18.360 --> 1:16:22.080 conservatives thought they could do with evidence based reality thing, right, 1:16:22.120 --> 1:16:24.040 where like they they thought that what they could do 1:16:24.200 --> 1:16:27.200 was just instead of observing reality and creating your positions, 1:16:27.200 --> 1:16:29.240 from it. They thought they could just purely influence and 1:16:29.240 --> 1:16:31.640 manipulate reality to become whatever they wanted it to be, 1:16:32.400 --> 1:16:35.360 and they couldn't. Right, like where is George Bush right now? 1:16:35.880 --> 1:16:39.719 Right like where is Dick Cheney? Like the Trump administration 1:16:39.880 --> 1:16:44.000 somehow staggeringly has managed to like they finally found a 1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:47.320 war crime so bad that John wu the art like 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:50.280 the guy who wrote the torture manuals, was like, wait, 1:16:50.320 --> 1:16:53.320 hold on, you can't just blow up random like boats 1:16:53.320 --> 1:16:57.759 of people in Venezuela, Like what what? Like I literally 1:16:57.920 --> 1:17:00.559 had not even occurred to me that it was possible 1:17:00.840 --> 1:17:02.800 for you to commit a war crime so bad that 1:17:02.800 --> 1:17:04.760 the guy who off the torture memos was like, hold on, 1:17:04.800 --> 1:17:06.400 hold on, hold on, Well, I ain't set up for 1:17:06.400 --> 1:17:07.040 this shit. 1:17:07.360 --> 1:17:14.880 Like it's yeah, they're absolutely like unhinged. They're horrible and 1:17:15.479 --> 1:17:19.360 thank god they are so unpopular and so bad at this. Yeah, 1:17:19.439 --> 1:17:21.479 because if they were just a little bit better at this, 1:17:21.560 --> 1:17:24.280 I think it's very clear what they want. 1:17:23.840 --> 1:17:27.439 We're different. We're screwed. Yeah, like we go we go 1:17:27.520 --> 1:17:31.679 under like four months, but that hasn't happened because they're 1:17:31.720 --> 1:17:36.200 not good at this and they're tearing apart the very 1:17:36.240 --> 1:17:39.000 institutional apparattus like Disney, like they're tearing apart the very 1:17:39.000 --> 1:17:41.800 institutional apparattus is that were designed to like propagate them. 1:17:41.840 --> 1:17:46.000 Like Trump could have just made peace with Disney, right, 1:17:46.080 --> 1:17:48.320 Like Trump could have just used you know, like like 1:17:48.360 --> 1:17:51.320 basically like the way that every other being, like like 1:17:51.360 --> 1:17:54.320 the way literally the Nazis did right like until like 1:17:54.439 --> 1:17:56.840 literally until they were forced to break it off dream 1:17:56.920 --> 1:17:58.960 like World War two, right, which is like used Disney 1:17:58.960 --> 1:18:00.599 as a propaganda apparat is for you. 1:18:00.920 --> 1:18:03.360 And Disney was gun shy because of the fight with 1:18:03.479 --> 1:18:06.520 the fight with Santas didn't go that well for them, Yeah, surprisingly, 1:18:06.560 --> 1:18:08.559 you know, like they had some trouble with that, and 1:18:08.600 --> 1:18:10.760 so they were gun shy, like going into the administration, 1:18:10.840 --> 1:18:13.120 like they were very quiet, like they were not rocking 1:18:13.160 --> 1:18:13.479 the boat. 1:18:13.520 --> 1:18:15.280 They were making lots of statements about how like, you know, we. 1:18:15.240 --> 1:18:17.800 Support it, Like he didn't have to goad them into 1:18:17.800 --> 1:18:20.360 taking a position in the culture war, Like they were 1:18:20.400 --> 1:18:23.360 just very glad that they weren't fighting off Da Santis anymore, 1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:26.200 and that they weren't fighting off you know the Daily Wire, 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:28.519 you know, claiming that they were you know, whatever the 1:18:28.560 --> 1:18:30.599 woke mind virus or whatever the hell, you know. Yeah, 1:18:30.720 --> 1:18:32.400 Like they were just they were just putting their keeping 1:18:32.400 --> 1:18:34.880 their heads down, trying to rebuild after the disaster of 1:18:34.920 --> 1:18:37.599 the pandemic, right, like trying to like get their cruise 1:18:37.640 --> 1:18:39.600 line back up and like as profitable as it could be. 1:18:39.640 --> 1:18:41.200 You know, Like they were they were working on like 1:18:41.240 --> 1:18:43.120 they were just doing their thing, and they were like, 1:18:43.479 --> 1:18:44.720 no reason Trump should stop that. 1:18:44.760 --> 1:18:46.280 There's no reason trum should spped that. They is what 1:18:46.320 --> 1:18:46.639 they thought. 1:18:46.720 --> 1:18:49.640 No, It's like they were implementing like a lot of 1:18:49.640 --> 1:18:52.200 the culture wars they wanted in terms of like Okay, 1:18:52.240 --> 1:18:54.360 we're going back to white people. We're never having another 1:18:54.400 --> 1:18:56.559 non white character again, like eat shit. 1:18:56.960 --> 1:18:59.680 Like they canceled they they're canceling TV shows with just 1:18:59.680 --> 1:19:01.640 like quick your character is Like they're just they're just 1:19:01.680 --> 1:19:04.800 doing stuff like that. They're they're doing everything that the 1:19:05.280 --> 1:19:08.840 regime wants. But as you mentioned, he's just sitting there 1:19:08.880 --> 1:19:12.080 watching TV and like like throwing his remote around and 1:19:12.120 --> 1:19:14.959 like unfortunately his remote like dictates US policy. 1:19:15.320 --> 1:19:17.599 M I think that's an important note to close on 1:19:17.640 --> 1:19:21.840 because like his remote dictates US policy to the extent 1:19:21.920 --> 1:19:25.400 that everyone pretends that it does. And one of the 1:19:25.400 --> 1:19:27.840 things that can start happening in the in the end 1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:30.760 stages of these kind of regimes, is that like the 1:19:31.040 --> 1:19:34.120 levers of power become unglued from the mechanisms of the state. 1:19:34.560 --> 1:19:35.160 Yeah. 1:19:35.240 --> 1:19:38.040 Right, So he just like declared that antifas like a 1:19:38.080 --> 1:19:40.560 domestic terrorist organization. Right, We're gonna be talking about that 1:19:40.640 --> 1:19:42.560 later this week, possibly earlier this week. Got to know 1:19:42.560 --> 1:19:48.519 when this episode's coming out. But that doesn't do anything 1:19:48.760 --> 1:19:51.519 in and of itself. He's just like waving a magic 1:19:51.560 --> 1:19:53.680 wander round. But if he doesn't have the repressive apparatus 1:19:53.720 --> 1:19:57.719 to make that matter, then okay, then then him throwing 1:19:57.720 --> 1:20:02.360 the remote around isn't like gesturally controlling the arm of 1:20:02.400 --> 1:20:04.040 like one of the most sophisticated, what's supposed to be 1:20:04.040 --> 1:20:07.160 one of the most fiscated pressed apparatuses ever. Right, And 1:20:07.360 --> 1:20:11.840 they rely on both the compliance of the state bureaucracy, 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:14.200 which they've been decently good at pulling in line, but 1:20:14.240 --> 1:20:18.080 also they rely at our compliance for this, and you 1:20:18.080 --> 1:20:21.719 don't have to comply with them. That's the fun thing 1:20:21.840 --> 1:20:26.000 about about existence is that they can't just they can't 1:20:26.040 --> 1:20:28.680 just make it real unless you help them. 1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:30.240 And as we saw, as you're already talking about the 1:20:30.760 --> 1:20:32.920 Charlie Kirk Special doesn't go up, right, they say like 1:20:32.960 --> 1:20:35.120 the yeah, the COVID vaccines are like, we're going to 1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:37.640 restrict them. And most of the pharmacies are just like 1:20:37.720 --> 1:20:40.120 just check a box saying you need it, like you know, 1:20:40.240 --> 1:20:43.760 like not in every state. But again, like these massive institutions, 1:20:43.760 --> 1:20:45.680 they can't really get them in line, So why are 1:20:45.680 --> 1:20:46.840 you letting them get you in line? 1:20:47.080 --> 1:20:47.280 Yeah? 1:20:47.320 --> 1:20:49.560 And remember, you know, like they had better control of 1:20:49.560 --> 1:20:53.479 their institutional apparatuses in twenty twenty and the outcome of 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:56.360 that was there was a giant uprising and they put 1:20:56.360 --> 1:20:57.960 the president in a bunker or a thing that he's 1:20:57.960 --> 1:21:00.680 still mad about to this day. Right, even when it 1:21:00.760 --> 1:21:04.880 looks like they have total control, they don't. And I 1:21:04.880 --> 1:21:06.479 don't know if he's gonna like end up in a 1:21:06.560 --> 1:21:10.839 Hitler bunker. But look, as of right now, as it stands, 1:21:11.120 --> 1:21:13.680 the record of Trump administration's ending with Trump hiding in 1:21:13.720 --> 1:21:17.519 a bunker is one hundred percent. So you know, if 1:21:17.520 --> 1:21:19.479 if if the past is to be a prediction of 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:23.000 the future, we could see it again when all of 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:25.960 this ship goes to hell and the economy collapses and 1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:29.120 everyone's like, oh, this was all lie. The whole time. Wow, damn, 1:21:29.240 --> 1:21:38.280 hey look like you know, and oh god, but I 1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:40.960 don't know if we can. Uh, we're just gonna, we're 1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:43.000 just gonna, we're just gonna put a really long leaf 1:21:43.080 --> 1:21:45.200 over that entire sentence and we're gonna, we're we're gonna 1:21:45.280 --> 1:21:50.280 leave that sentence as an exercise to the reader, completing 1:21:50.280 --> 1:21:52.479 the sentence, just figuring out what it was saying, not 1:21:52.560 --> 1:21:57.920 doing the thing. Okay that this this, this has been. 1:21:57.960 --> 1:22:00.720 It could happen here, Vicky. Where can people you order 1:22:00.760 --> 1:22:01.200 your book? 1:22:01.520 --> 1:22:04.160 Oh, you can go to Haymarket and that's who's putting 1:22:04.160 --> 1:22:05.640 it out and they have a list of links. You 1:22:05.680 --> 1:22:09.000 can also go to my blue Sky account vickyacab dot 1:22:09.040 --> 1:22:11.920 b Sky dot social and you can find a link there. 1:22:12.120 --> 1:22:13.960 Yeah, And where can people find you in your work? 1:22:14.360 --> 1:22:17.360 Car Shiny things dot com. It's the Collective Anarchist Writers 1:22:17.920 --> 1:22:19.360 or any other acronym you like. 1:22:19.439 --> 1:22:22.479 C AW. That's where I'm working the most regularly. 1:22:22.560 --> 1:22:24.599 Now, good crowth, heming. That's great, that's great. 1:22:24.600 --> 1:22:25.360 It's Corvid based. 1:22:25.560 --> 1:22:28.120 Yeah, we love a Corvid based economy. 1:22:29.320 --> 1:22:31.559 Thanks so much for having me Amiya, Yeah, thanks for 1:22:31.600 --> 1:22:32.040 coming on. 1:22:48.920 --> 1:22:52.639 Hello and welcome to the podcast. It's me James today, 1:22:52.880 --> 1:22:55.719 and I'm very lucky to be joined by a couple 1:22:55.720 --> 1:22:58.559 of people who I am about to introduce to discuss 1:22:58.600 --> 1:23:02.040 the very important topic of does Tyler and O'll give 1:23:02.080 --> 1:23:05.200 your baby autism? I think we probably already know the answer, 1:23:05.200 --> 1:23:07.559 but nonetheless we have half an hour to talk about it. 1:23:07.640 --> 1:23:13.160 So you were here doctor Carve Hodeth laughing, that's uh me, 1:23:13.240 --> 1:23:15.320 that's cave. Yeah. Many of you will know him, but 1:23:15.360 --> 1:23:17.360 he's a medical doctor and host of the House of 1:23:17.640 --> 1:23:20.960 Pod podcast. And I'm also joined by Tyler Black, who's 1:23:20.960 --> 1:23:25.800 a psychologist in British Columbia. Welcome Tyler, chiatrist, psychiatrist. 1:23:26.080 --> 1:23:29.920 Fucked it up? Them fighting words, James, them fighting. 1:23:29.920 --> 1:23:32.599 Yeah, no, I know, yeah, this is yes. Like when 1:23:32.640 --> 1:23:35.840 people call me a sociologists, I understand, or even worse, 1:23:35.960 --> 1:23:37.040 an anthropologist. 1:23:37.479 --> 1:23:39.880 It's a pleasure to be here and no worries. Tyler 1:23:39.960 --> 1:23:43.000 is Canadian, so to see him correct somebody on something 1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:46.200 makes me happy. I'm very sorry, yeah, but that's why 1:23:46.240 --> 1:23:46.720 we get him on. 1:23:46.800 --> 1:23:49.479 He's very sorry, he's very sorry about that. I love 1:23:49.560 --> 1:23:53.000 Tyler very much. He comes on my show not infrequently. 1:23:53.400 --> 1:23:56.040 And one really pleasant thing that's happened, one little bright 1:23:56.080 --> 1:23:58.640 spot in the last I don't know five years of 1:23:58.880 --> 1:24:03.840 terror that have been happening medically is seeing Tyler gradually 1:24:03.880 --> 1:24:07.960 over time become grumpier and more willing to fight. 1:24:10.800 --> 1:24:12.880 That's the only bright spot I've had. Thank you Tyler 1:24:12.920 --> 1:24:13.160 for that. 1:24:13.240 --> 1:24:17.440 Yeah, I imagine that's the side effect of your consumption 1:24:17.479 --> 1:24:20.519 of a seat to metaphana may Yeah. 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:23.120 Got a cut back, bro got cut back? Yeah? 1:24:23.280 --> 1:24:25.880 All right. For those not familiar, where are we talking about? 1:24:26.040 --> 1:24:26.599 Thailan All? 1:24:26.760 --> 1:24:29.200 Might be the name you're familiar if you, especially of 1:24:29.240 --> 1:24:32.120 your American people, like to use brand names a little more. 1:24:32.240 --> 1:24:34.240 I still find that very confusing, and I've lived here 1:24:34.280 --> 1:24:36.680 for a better part of two decades. But why are 1:24:36.680 --> 1:24:37.760 we talking about tail and all? 1:24:37.960 --> 1:24:38.320 Tyler? 1:24:38.520 --> 1:24:42.280 Do you want to introduce this concept? Sure so, Yeah. 1:24:42.320 --> 1:24:48.200 Talent All goes by Paracenamol in UK and other places 1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:50.280 in the world. It's a ceta minifin here, so it 1:24:50.400 --> 1:24:54.280 really is not talking about talent although the shorthand that 1:24:54.479 --> 1:24:57.440 the political people who've been talking about it have specifically 1:24:57.439 --> 1:25:00.479 called out the brand Talentol, which is bizarre. But this 1:25:00.600 --> 1:25:05.120 stems from both a mission that RFK Junior when he 1:25:05.160 --> 1:25:08.040 took over as the HHS sort of had, which was 1:25:08.080 --> 1:25:13.240 to find the cause of autism, which is his political 1:25:13.320 --> 1:25:16.880 quest to find some environmental cause. I mean, he started 1:25:16.920 --> 1:25:20.320 as an environmental lawyer. I don't think he's doing this disingenuously. 1:25:20.400 --> 1:25:23.200 I think he truly believes there was an environmental cause 1:25:23.200 --> 1:25:27.679 to autism. But of course RFK wheeled science probably driven 1:25:27.720 --> 1:25:30.599 by the brain worm, and so he has this way 1:25:30.640 --> 1:25:33.320 of having a conclusion that and finding the science to 1:25:33.320 --> 1:25:36.880 support it. And it was very clear that he was 1:25:36.920 --> 1:25:40.960 going to point towards vaccine vaccine schedule, and at some 1:25:41.040 --> 1:25:43.840 point this is definitely coming. I think this might be 1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:46.200 a roundabout way to do it through fevers and talinol. 1:25:46.600 --> 1:25:49.880 But the talent link is something that has been a 1:25:49.960 --> 1:25:53.120 question mark. So a really quick aside will be that 1:25:53.200 --> 1:25:57.280 when drugs are regulated, the drug companies have very little 1:25:57.360 --> 1:25:59.639 natural interest to study it and pregnant people it only 1:25:59.640 --> 1:26:02.280 brings the risk. There's no reason to do it. You 1:26:02.320 --> 1:26:05.479 are required to submit what studies you have on animal 1:26:05.479 --> 1:26:07.720 toxicity in utero and these types of things, but not 1:26:07.800 --> 1:26:10.799 really that much for humans, and so the drug companies 1:26:10.880 --> 1:26:13.120 usually put their hands up and go talk to your 1:26:13.120 --> 1:26:15.800 doctor about using this, and then the rest of us 1:26:15.800 --> 1:26:19.040 in medicine have to take that information that's been generated 1:26:19.040 --> 1:26:22.479 about this medication and try and interpret it on pregnant people. 1:26:22.960 --> 1:26:26.799 And it creates this system where we create the evidence 1:26:26.880 --> 1:26:29.280 over the next twenty years in what we call pharmacal 1:26:29.360 --> 1:26:34.160 vigilids or post marketing studies, where we basically has there 1:26:34.200 --> 1:26:36.320 been a problem, did we find any birth effects? 1:26:36.320 --> 1:26:36.479 You know? 1:26:36.880 --> 1:26:39.519 And we kind of do it backwards. It kind of 1:26:39.560 --> 1:26:41.800 makes sense because you couldn't really do an RCAT on 1:26:42.000 --> 1:26:44.080 pregnant women to start with if you didn't know any 1:26:44.080 --> 1:26:47.240 reason for the for the drug. So it's one of 1:26:47.280 --> 1:26:50.519 those sort of loopholes. And so this natural conversation has 1:26:50.560 --> 1:26:53.360 resulted in science that points in a number of directions. 1:26:54.120 --> 1:26:56.799 Does the seed of Menifhite cause autism? Can't be answered 1:26:56.800 --> 1:26:59.120 by the current science because it's all cohort data, it's 1:26:59.120 --> 1:27:03.280 looking backward, it's looking at populations. It's confounded. How are 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:06.120 The best study was published in twenty twenty four, which 1:27:06.160 --> 1:27:08.400 makes the timing of this announcement really awkward. There was 1:27:08.439 --> 1:27:11.280 two point five million people. It was a believe it's 1:27:11.280 --> 1:27:15.799 a Danish study, Swedish study, okay, And in that study 1:27:15.840 --> 1:27:18.960 there was a small link found, But because they had 1:27:18.960 --> 1:27:21.439 two point five million people, they could check that link 1:27:21.479 --> 1:27:24.719 by looking at sibling pairs within that two point five million. 1:27:25.280 --> 1:27:28.479 So in that group they had sixteen thousand sibling pairs 1:27:28.520 --> 1:27:32.760 both exposed to and not exposed to acetaminifin, and lo 1:27:32.920 --> 1:27:35.200 and behold, they found that there was no relationship there. 1:27:35.240 --> 1:27:38.920 So this really is one of the more definitive correlational 1:27:39.000 --> 1:27:42.519 studies that says pretty much, any effect we're seeing is 1:27:42.720 --> 1:27:45.920 probably confounded. It probably isn't due to the assineminifin. Though 1:27:46.280 --> 1:27:49.120 there are some animal studies that might hint at it, 1:27:49.120 --> 1:27:51.559 it appears to be minor and Caves are about to 1:27:51.600 --> 1:27:53.720 say something, Yeah, first of all, that's exactly right. 1:27:53.760 --> 1:27:56.320 I think that there are a lot of things that 1:27:56.479 --> 1:27:59.960 Maha and RFK Junior talk about there are just insane 1:28:00.240 --> 1:28:03.120 and you can dismiss out of hand. This is a 1:28:03.240 --> 1:28:06.680 topic that is not complete rubbish. It is something that 1:28:06.720 --> 1:28:08.519 has a little bit of nuance and we can talk 1:28:08.560 --> 1:28:12.160 about as Tyler was just mentioning, there is some evidence 1:28:12.280 --> 1:28:16.000 that there might be a small relationship, but the real 1:28:16.080 --> 1:28:20.040 key is determining if it's a causal relationship or just correlative. 1:28:20.200 --> 1:28:23.240 Are they just related for some reason or another, or 1:28:23.280 --> 1:28:25.960 are they caused by each other? And that study that 1:28:26.000 --> 1:28:28.320 he talked about, that Swedish study looked at about one 1:28:28.400 --> 1:28:32.240 hundred and eighty thousand infants that had parents that were 1:28:32.280 --> 1:28:36.599 exposed to sudemenafin. What's really elegant about that is that 1:28:36.640 --> 1:28:39.120 it looked at the siblings. That's why it's such an 1:28:39.160 --> 1:28:42.000 important study. And that's what I say, it closes the 1:28:42.000 --> 1:28:44.360 door on the matter. No, I agree with Tyler. I 1:28:44.360 --> 1:28:47.840 think the preponderance of evidence now is that there is 1:28:47.880 --> 1:28:51.040 no connection between town law and autism. But I don't 1:28:51.080 --> 1:28:53.920 know if this study totally closes the door. It is 1:28:54.040 --> 1:28:57.680 really well done though. So they showed that if you 1:28:57.720 --> 1:28:59.960 look at siblings, if you look at a family, there's 1:29:00.160 --> 1:29:03.320 no connection. You take out some of the variables, you 1:29:03.360 --> 1:29:06.720 take out some of the confounders there that can obfuscate 1:29:06.840 --> 1:29:09.599 or confuse an issue. You take those out of the picture, 1:29:09.800 --> 1:29:13.120 and you see that there's no relationship between town and menaphin. 1:29:13.360 --> 1:29:16.040 What's interesting in that same study that we just study, 1:29:16.479 --> 1:29:20.120 if they then put those back in, if they didn't 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:22.920 account for the siblings, then yeah, showed that there is 1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:27.439 a little bit of evidence, a small basic relationship between 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:33.680 you knowcedomenaphin and developing autism. But once you start accounting 1:29:33.760 --> 1:29:37.120 for some of these these really tough to account for variables, 1:29:37.560 --> 1:29:40.320 then you start to see that that falls apart, and 1:29:40.720 --> 1:29:43.280 that implies that most of these other studies are not 1:29:43.479 --> 1:29:45.760 causal but correlative relationships. 1:29:46.280 --> 1:29:49.479 The sort of twenty twenty five update is and I 1:29:49.520 --> 1:29:51.880 think this might have I think, as that we learn 1:29:51.920 --> 1:29:53.560 more about it, this might have been something that was 1:29:53.600 --> 1:29:59.000 either solicited or developed in tandem with RFK and his goals. 1:29:59.000 --> 1:30:02.439 But there was a publication in twenty twenty five by 1:30:02.600 --> 1:30:06.000 I think the Harvard Dean of Medicine, who has been 1:30:06.000 --> 1:30:11.160 a plaintiff's witness for attorneys battling talentol in developing autism. 1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:13.960 So there is a bit of a financial conflict of 1:30:14.000 --> 1:30:14.719 interest there. 1:30:14.600 --> 1:30:15.240 Right, Yeah. 1:30:15.280 --> 1:30:19.000 Baccarelli, Yeah, doctor Buccarelli, who published a study called a 1:30:19.080 --> 1:30:22.920 Navigation Review, and it's basically a science y version of 1:30:23.120 --> 1:30:24.960 let me tell a story, and here's the evidence that 1:30:25.000 --> 1:30:28.519 supports it. Basically, what they did is they took the 1:30:28.600 --> 1:30:32.280 number of studies, they counted the number that pointed towards 1:30:32.320 --> 1:30:34.680 talinol as a factor, and they counted against it, and 1:30:34.720 --> 1:30:37.840 they found about twenty something in total. The majority of 1:30:37.840 --> 1:30:41.120 them found a link to talent al and autism, and 1:30:41.160 --> 1:30:44.920 then a minority found no link. But of course that's 1:30:45.080 --> 1:30:47.679 not really how we do science in twenty twenty five. 1:30:47.840 --> 1:30:50.720 If we had two studies and you can actually look 1:30:50.720 --> 1:30:52.880 at his studies, and some of these studies are two 1:30:52.960 --> 1:30:55.920 hundred people, three hundred people, five hundred people, and then 1:30:55.920 --> 1:30:58.400 you have this other study that's two point five million 1:30:58.439 --> 1:31:03.679 people in the real world, that larger study would dwarf 1:31:03.760 --> 1:31:05.679 the significance of the other ones. But in the way 1:31:05.720 --> 1:31:08.559 that this navigation study was set up, they're all equal. 1:31:08.680 --> 1:31:13.200 In fact, he treats the non confounded sample that Cave 1:31:13.479 --> 1:31:16.759 was mentioning as its own study, and then he treats 1:31:17.120 --> 1:31:20.360 the controlled sample with siblings as its own studies. So 1:31:20.760 --> 1:31:24.800 the same study from Sweden was cited twice, one four 1:31:24.840 --> 1:31:28.360 and one against. You can see how you could shape 1:31:28.439 --> 1:31:30.920 a narrative, which is what a narrative review is. It's 1:31:30.920 --> 1:31:34.160 when you shape a narrative. It's not a very sciencey 1:31:34.200 --> 1:31:36.519 way to do things. We like to do systematic reviews, 1:31:37.120 --> 1:31:40.800 and this did provide a bit of cover because now 1:31:40.880 --> 1:31:44.040 everyone in AHHS can point towards this study by the 1:31:44.080 --> 1:31:49.080 Harvard Deed of Medicine published in BMC Environmental Studies, Peer reviewed, 1:31:49.479 --> 1:31:52.840 showing that a navigational study shows that there could be 1:31:52.880 --> 1:31:55.200 a link, but it really if you read the study, 1:31:55.400 --> 1:31:57.720 any scientists reading it like, yeah, there could be a link, 1:31:57.760 --> 1:32:00.320 but the largest study in that group suggests there is 1:32:00.320 --> 1:32:00.760 no link. 1:32:01.560 --> 1:32:04.240 Right, yeah, in terms of someone's playing games with evidence 1:32:04.360 --> 1:32:07.280 when they've already decided what the completion would it be. Yeah, 1:32:07.479 --> 1:32:12.479 let's talk about this fascination with autism that exists in 1:32:12.520 --> 1:32:15.840 the MAHA. Right, make America healthy again. For those who 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:20.120 are not familiar what's happening here, people are probably diagnosed 1:32:20.120 --> 1:32:22.479 with autism at a higher rate now than they were 1:32:22.640 --> 1:32:26.000 when these people were young. Right, that is not however, well, 1:32:26.120 --> 1:32:28.240 I will let you guys explain that. Explain how that 1:32:28.240 --> 1:32:31.200 doesn't mean that we're giving children autism if that, if 1:32:31.200 --> 1:32:32.800 my understanding is correct. 1:32:32.760 --> 1:32:36.320 Sure, I mean I'll jump in first. So there's a 1:32:36.400 --> 1:32:38.439 number of ways to test whether or not the rate 1:32:38.560 --> 1:32:40.720 is truly increasing. So the first thing to say is, 1:32:40.960 --> 1:32:44.680 over the world, we've seen a gradual increase in the 1:32:45.280 --> 1:32:49.760 global population that has autism from about zero point eight 1:32:49.760 --> 1:32:52.800 percent of the population to about two percent of the population. 1:32:53.360 --> 1:32:55.800 That's what's happened over the past twenty five years of 1:32:55.840 --> 1:32:59.200 studies across the world. Now, that's not exactly the exponential 1:32:59.280 --> 1:33:01.719 rise that you are and hear about in the United States. 1:33:02.040 --> 1:33:04.120 The United States has a lot of unique features though. 1:33:04.160 --> 1:33:06.120 You have a ton of people working in this area, 1:33:06.160 --> 1:33:08.240 you have a ton of researchers, lots of people have 1:33:08.280 --> 1:33:11.400 access to healthcare. There's many reasons why global numbers might 1:33:11.439 --> 1:33:15.160 not look like American numbers, but the general idea behind 1:33:15.160 --> 1:33:18.800 this increased rate of autism. Most of that increases due 1:33:18.800 --> 1:33:20.920 to our change in diagnostics and the way that we 1:33:21.000 --> 1:33:24.200 label things. So when RFK was a kid, there were 1:33:24.280 --> 1:33:27.000 kids that were excluded from school because they were literally 1:33:27.040 --> 1:33:30.120 called retarded. They were not allowed to come to school. 1:33:30.200 --> 1:33:32.400 They were known as spass and goofs, and they were 1:33:32.400 --> 1:33:35.080 the ones that were made fun of and they struggled 1:33:35.080 --> 1:33:38.000 throughout life. Now that were they called autistic? No, did 1:33:38.040 --> 1:33:40.519 they have the same symptoms that the kids today that 1:33:40.560 --> 1:33:44.040 are being diagnosed with autism have probably, And the way 1:33:44.040 --> 1:33:45.840 that we can control for that are there's some really 1:33:45.840 --> 1:33:50.519 elegant studies. One is we take diagnostic criteria from children 1:33:50.960 --> 1:33:54.320 and then we ask adults currently living today to go 1:33:54.400 --> 1:33:57.400 through a structured interview looking for those things, and yuess what, 1:33:57.560 --> 1:33:59.840 we find the same rate in adults that we see 1:33:59.840 --> 1:34:04.120 in kids. Okay, this idea that it's an exponential right now, 1:34:04.479 --> 1:34:07.040 I think the rate is also increasing, but I think 1:34:07.080 --> 1:34:09.760 it's increasing gradually, and this is because the extreme of 1:34:09.800 --> 1:34:13.000 ages are having kids more often, especially at the older end. 1:34:13.000 --> 1:34:15.720 And we do know that older age is related to autism, 1:34:15.960 --> 1:34:19.240 especially older age of the father. And we also know 1:34:19.400 --> 1:34:23.920 that premature babies and babies with significant developmental disabilities are 1:34:24.000 --> 1:34:28.519 surviving their postnatal period as soon as they're born. Instead 1:34:28.560 --> 1:34:32.240 of instantly dying or dying during childbirth or not being 1:34:32.280 --> 1:34:35.360 able to be resuscitated, they're kept alive and survive and 1:34:35.560 --> 1:34:38.080 this is good. But this does mean that there's more 1:34:38.240 --> 1:34:41.040 neurodiversity in the world because of course these children have 1:34:41.360 --> 1:34:43.599 encountered significant harm. Yeah, I agree with that. 1:34:43.840 --> 1:34:47.160 I do think that the diagnostic criteria has expanded and 1:34:47.160 --> 1:34:49.000 that's part of why we see more. 1:34:49.080 --> 1:34:50.960 But yeah, I think the. 1:34:51.280 --> 1:34:55.639 Two things we know that are related are some genetic 1:34:55.680 --> 1:34:58.080 predisposition if there's people in the family that have it, 1:34:58.200 --> 1:35:00.920 and the older age of patients as we get older, 1:35:01.360 --> 1:35:05.479 I'm an older father myself. You know, you see more 1:35:05.520 --> 1:35:07.680 with older patients, and that's more common now than it's 1:35:07.720 --> 1:35:08.519 ever been before. 1:35:08.600 --> 1:35:10.160 So these are all a part of it. 1:35:10.280 --> 1:35:12.559 Once you take a look, for example, going back to 1:35:12.600 --> 1:35:15.679 that Swedish study in twenty twenty four that was so good, 1:35:16.200 --> 1:35:18.840 that sibling study looks at the genetics of it, and 1:35:18.880 --> 1:35:21.200 once you count for the genetics of it, you start 1:35:21.200 --> 1:35:23.400 to be able to say, Okay, maybe this's other stuff 1:35:23.400 --> 1:35:25.720 like tile mall isn't important? 1:35:26.040 --> 1:35:26.640 Yeah? 1:35:26.920 --> 1:35:29.559 Yeah, is there a gender element to this as well? 1:35:29.760 --> 1:35:30.080 Yeah? 1:35:30.200 --> 1:35:33.639 I may have misremembered here. My understanding is that women 1:35:33.720 --> 1:35:36.920 FEN people tended to be diagnosed at a lower rate 1:35:37.240 --> 1:35:38.400 until relatively recently. 1:35:38.720 --> 1:35:41.680 Yeah, so not only is there a gender component, but 1:35:41.720 --> 1:35:44.679 I do think that the biological sex of the child 1:35:45.120 --> 1:35:47.920 has an impact on the genetic expression, because it seems 1:35:47.960 --> 1:35:52.080 like the transmission to males is higher than the transmission 1:35:52.080 --> 1:35:54.960 to females. So there might be something buffering about that 1:35:55.040 --> 1:35:57.280 extra X chromosome. You know, we have this shrimpy little 1:35:57.400 --> 1:35:59.680 Y chromosome that makes us all degenerates. You only have 1:35:59.760 --> 1:36:03.959 one Y chromosome? Sorry, are you a superman? 1:36:04.040 --> 1:36:07.320 I have two whys caves y why you know, Harry, 1:36:07.360 --> 1:36:08.519 my ears are so. 1:36:08.520 --> 1:36:11.280 There are a number of disorders that the extra X 1:36:11.360 --> 1:36:14.719 chromosome is protective for, and I do wonder if that's 1:36:14.760 --> 1:36:17.559 the case for autism. But what's also true is we 1:36:17.640 --> 1:36:20.799 have stereotypes about what girls should be and what boys 1:36:20.800 --> 1:36:23.920 should be, and that leads to boys being diagnosed with 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:28.160 autism more frequently than girls. So the girl that's quiet 1:36:28.160 --> 1:36:30.760 and awkward and anxious is labeled as an anxious kid 1:36:31.560 --> 1:36:34.080 a lot more quickly than when you see that in 1:36:34.120 --> 1:36:36.799 a boy that the parents think autism or the clinician 1:36:36.840 --> 1:36:39.280 thinks autism. So there could be some social reasons for 1:36:39.320 --> 1:36:42.280 that discrepancy as well. And then the last thing I 1:36:42.320 --> 1:36:44.960 really wanted to say is that the really tragic thing 1:36:45.000 --> 1:36:49.040 about all of this is profound autism, which autism is 1:36:49.040 --> 1:36:53.040 the spectrum. Profound autism is extremely disabling for people around 1:36:53.080 --> 1:36:56.800 the person. Generally, autistic people enjoy their lives, especially if 1:36:56.880 --> 1:36:58.880 the world is set up in a way so that 1:36:58.920 --> 1:37:02.879 they can live safely without impediment. Autistic people are perfectly 1:37:02.920 --> 1:37:07.720 content to be autistic. And this whole idea of autism 1:37:07.760 --> 1:37:12.640 being this travesty, this epidemic, this blight on society, is 1:37:12.720 --> 1:37:15.599 really doing a disservice to the wide variety of people 1:37:15.640 --> 1:37:19.080 that we're now calling autistic, because when our criteria expanded, 1:37:19.720 --> 1:37:23.519 we created a whole space of autistic people who are 1:37:24.000 --> 1:37:27.160 very what we would call non profound autism. These are 1:37:27.160 --> 1:37:30.559 people that have difficulties in social communication or do the 1:37:30.600 --> 1:37:33.200 same thing over and over despite you know, it being 1:37:33.320 --> 1:37:35.280 at an abnormal level, but it's what they need to 1:37:35.320 --> 1:37:39.240 soothe themselves. You know, that will be called autism. Now, Now, 1:37:39.360 --> 1:37:42.120 would a parent want a child who's in a home 1:37:42.439 --> 1:37:46.240 constantly rocking back and forth and just soothing themselves by 1:37:46.840 --> 1:37:49.759 licking their fingers or whatever, you know, some very severe 1:37:49.760 --> 1:37:52.920 autistic behavior. No, that probably wouldn't be the parent's ideal. 1:37:53.479 --> 1:37:56.040 But I've worked with so much autism in my life. 1:37:56.040 --> 1:37:58.400 I'm a child in nodicston in psychiatrist. I've seen so 1:37:58.439 --> 1:38:03.000 many autistic kids live happy, happy, happy lives artistic. So 1:38:03.240 --> 1:38:05.559 I'm not a fan of the blight sort of messaging 1:38:05.600 --> 1:38:06.120 of it either. 1:38:06.439 --> 1:38:09.040 Yeah, I'm really glad you mentioned that, because that's one 1:38:09.040 --> 1:38:11.000 of the worst things about In a sense, one of 1:38:11.040 --> 1:38:13.000 the most damaging things about is where people who are 1:38:13.040 --> 1:38:17.760 living happy, healthy and fulfilled lives are being like slandered 1:38:17.840 --> 1:38:21.679 or pathologized to rided by the government of this country 1:38:21.760 --> 1:38:25.200 and that's fucked. Yeah, and I'm sure will have an 1:38:25.240 --> 1:38:26.880 impact on those people, because it would have an impact 1:38:26.920 --> 1:38:30.680 on anyone to see this condition that, as you said, right, 1:38:30.760 --> 1:38:32.880 like maybe difficult for people who are not familiar with 1:38:32.920 --> 1:38:34.639 it to navigate, but it doesn't mean that you can't 1:38:34.680 --> 1:38:39.360 have a fulfilling and happy and very pleasant life. Suddenly 1:38:39.520 --> 1:38:43.560 suggested it some kind of massively disabling and terrible travesty 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:46.320 and that the person who gave birth to you is 1:38:46.320 --> 1:38:48.559 to blame for this, right right. 1:38:49.160 --> 1:38:51.000 That's what really bothers me, is like we're always trying 1:38:51.000 --> 1:38:54.800 to find ways to blame mothers. This is yeah, this 1:38:55.000 --> 1:38:58.120 is a mantle and I apologize for that. Listener, Please 1:38:58.200 --> 1:39:01.600 don't at me for that. Yeah, but part of what 1:39:01.640 --> 1:39:07.439 this is like control over women. And while that Swedish 1:39:07.439 --> 1:39:09.840 study of mention may not completely close the issue, I 1:39:09.880 --> 1:39:13.160 think it's pretty clear that the evidence pretty strong against 1:39:13.200 --> 1:39:16.320 there being a connection between tel nal and to make 1:39:16.360 --> 1:39:20.960 a whole sale governmental recommendation that as a country, for 1:39:21.040 --> 1:39:24.599 us to move this way, to make such strong claims, 1:39:24.600 --> 1:39:27.040 to have a president come out and just say grit 1:39:27.120 --> 1:39:30.479 your teeth and bear it. To women in regards to 1:39:30.520 --> 1:39:32.920 the one medicine that we've told them they can use 1:39:33.000 --> 1:39:37.200 during a pregnancy is insane to me. So there's the 1:39:37.240 --> 1:39:41.920 autism issue in the insult essentially to that community, but 1:39:41.960 --> 1:39:45.000 also to women in general. It's insane to me that 1:39:45.040 --> 1:39:47.680 this is happening right now. Again, there is a bit 1:39:47.720 --> 1:39:49.640 of nuance to this issue. As I mentioned, it's not 1:39:49.720 --> 1:39:52.320 like totally insane to ask about and question it, but 1:39:52.520 --> 1:39:58.000 to make a wholesale directional change in how we recommend 1:39:58.640 --> 1:40:01.799 managing patients with our pregnant is is nuts? 1:40:02.120 --> 1:40:05.160 Is just nuts? Yeah, And to piggyback on that, you know, 1:40:05.280 --> 1:40:08.880 like it's really normal. It was normal advice in twenty 1:40:08.920 --> 1:40:11.920 twenty four for us to say, yeah, you can use 1:40:11.960 --> 1:40:14.280 talent all, but try to use it sparingly. We're not 1:40:14.320 --> 1:40:16.799 really sure use it when you need it though, because 1:40:16.800 --> 1:40:18.840 we do know that pain and fever and these types 1:40:18.880 --> 1:40:20.960 of things are bad for the baby, right, you know, 1:40:21.040 --> 1:40:23.320 So this this kind of way in which it's now 1:40:23.360 --> 1:40:26.799 been massaged. So I saw a letter from doctor Marty Mackeriy, 1:40:26.840 --> 1:40:31.679 who's another grifter who's now in the American political system. 1:40:31.680 --> 1:40:35.160 There has written a letter basically saying at the bottom, 1:40:35.800 --> 1:40:38.679 use it judiciously, and it is the only one that's approved. 1:40:38.680 --> 1:40:40.600 So but that's exactly where we were before. There was 1:40:40.640 --> 1:40:43.280 no need for a past conference. Every doctor was saying, 1:40:43.600 --> 1:40:46.880 use talent all sparingly, but you can use it. James Tayley, 1:40:46.920 --> 1:40:49.439 what's driving me crazy about this? Yeah? 1:40:49.479 --> 1:40:49.799 Please? 1:40:49.880 --> 1:40:53.200 This administration has done something. Trump in general has done 1:40:53.240 --> 1:40:58.040 something that has blown my mind, which is somehow, time 1:40:58.120 --> 1:41:02.000 and time again, I find myself the FAI people and 1:41:02.080 --> 1:41:07.000 things that I would never want to defend. Like, first 1:41:07.000 --> 1:41:10.000 of on watching Jimmy Kimmel, I don't know how that happened. Yes, 1:41:10.040 --> 1:41:15.080 I blame Trump for that. Second, like, tylanol is a 1:41:15.160 --> 1:41:19.160 dangerous medication. I'm a liver doc. Yes, I feel like 1:41:19.280 --> 1:41:23.559 talanyl overdose is causing acute liver injury and acute liver 1:41:23.680 --> 1:41:28.040 failure is a massive, real issue across the world, and 1:41:28.120 --> 1:41:30.920 it is it's it's a real thing. So there are 1:41:31.080 --> 1:41:34.040 reasons that we should be watchful of talanol, but this 1:41:34.120 --> 1:41:35.160 is not one of them. 1:41:35.479 --> 1:41:35.719 Right. 1:41:36.000 --> 1:41:39.400 Yeah, Personally, I'm a champion of all talanol should be 1:41:39.479 --> 1:41:42.080 like the UK, it should be in individually wrapped pieces 1:41:42.840 --> 1:41:45.479 because there is evidence that that reduces the rate of 1:41:45.520 --> 1:41:48.799 intentional overdose and even ic overdoses that cause liver failure. 1:41:49.120 --> 1:41:52.040 So yeah, take away freedoms and right this is the 1:41:52.080 --> 1:41:54.000 medical freedom crowd. It's amazing. 1:41:54.520 --> 1:41:57.479 Yeah, we should take an advertising break and then come back. 1:41:57.520 --> 1:41:58.080 So we'll do that. 1:41:58.160 --> 1:41:59.800 Oh god, that would be fantastic if I could take 1:41:59.800 --> 1:42:01.720 it now advertising. I could use an ad right now. 1:42:01.920 --> 1:42:02.320 So bad. 1:42:03.320 --> 1:42:07.559 It's going to be for fucking lemon pepper water, which 1:42:07.640 --> 1:42:09.120 is the only pain treatment you. 1:42:09.120 --> 1:42:13.080 Should be taking. Bark to put between your teeth. 1:42:14.400 --> 1:42:14.760 For sure. 1:42:15.720 --> 1:42:17.600 Go get some leaves and fucking eat them. What can 1:42:17.640 --> 1:42:30.680 get wrong? All right, we're back. Thank you for that 1:42:30.680 --> 1:42:32.799 message from Leaf Pain Relief. 1:42:33.360 --> 1:42:33.920 Hit the spot. 1:42:34.240 --> 1:42:37.240 It's good. Don't eat leaves. I saw someone posing with 1:42:37.360 --> 1:42:40.320 a they were taking their graduation pictures. Very nice setting. 1:42:40.640 --> 1:42:42.479 I'm not going to say the flower, I guess just 1:42:42.520 --> 1:42:45.720 in case, you can call it quite remarkable hallucinations and 1:42:45.760 --> 1:42:48.080 it is not a good idea to be like half 1:42:48.120 --> 1:42:50.599 in it. It's a nice looking flower. If you didn't know, 1:42:50.800 --> 1:42:51.160 you might have. 1:42:51.439 --> 1:42:52.760 Well, now I want to know what the hell you're 1:42:52.760 --> 1:42:54.040 talking about. You're going to tell me later. 1:42:54.080 --> 1:42:56.240 I'm assuming lived in California. Your whole life. 1:42:56.240 --> 1:42:57.120 How do you not know this? 1:42:57.200 --> 1:42:58.439 Yeah, I'll text you afterwards. 1:42:58.439 --> 1:42:59.440 The dandelions? 1:42:59.520 --> 1:43:01.000 Is it d I've been told not to. 1:43:04.080 --> 1:43:06.160 It reminds me though there was a TikTok video of 1:43:06.520 --> 1:43:09.479 there's been a few of women proudly being pregnant and 1:43:09.640 --> 1:43:12.639 ingesting talanol. And to be clear, that's an insane response 1:43:12.680 --> 1:43:15.679 to this problem, like please don't take talanol. As a point, 1:43:16.000 --> 1:43:19.120 as k was saying before the break, right, helenol does 1:43:19.520 --> 1:43:22.479 deplete the glutathione in your body, and it is toxic 1:43:22.520 --> 1:43:24.320 to your liver. If you're a deliver, doesn't have the 1:43:24.320 --> 1:43:28.280 glue to thion necessary, it directly injures the liver. And 1:43:28.400 --> 1:43:30.360 this is what happens when you take an overdose, is 1:43:30.400 --> 1:43:33.519 it overwhelms the amount of gluteothion that your liver has 1:43:33.800 --> 1:43:35.080 and it causes liver damage. 1:43:36.000 --> 1:43:39.600 And most pregnant women who want to keep the baby 1:43:39.920 --> 1:43:43.480 are very judicious to begin with, not just like downing 1:43:44.080 --> 1:43:46.519 shit willy nilly, you know what I mean, Like they're like, 1:43:46.920 --> 1:43:49.519 oh God, this is really bad, I bear take something. 1:43:49.760 --> 1:43:52.760 It talan all, by the way, sucks, you know, as 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:55.519 a pain medicine. You know it's not gonna it's like 1:43:55.600 --> 1:43:57.599 the thing you take when they won't give you anything 1:43:57.600 --> 1:44:01.160 else is not a great one. So to take it 1:44:01.160 --> 1:44:04.920 from them without a good reason, without a proposed mechanism. 1:44:05.040 --> 1:44:08.040 If you're going to make extraordinary claims, you have to have, 1:44:08.680 --> 1:44:12.800 if not extraordinary evidence or ponderance of it. So this 1:44:12.920 --> 1:44:15.200 is really bothering me, as you can tell, because it 1:44:15.200 --> 1:44:15.880 does not exist. 1:44:16.800 --> 1:44:19.080 Yeah. I think something you mentioned earlier, like when like 1:44:19.120 --> 1:44:20.680 you said, you're back to to a corner where you're 1:44:20.720 --> 1:44:25.280 defending like a big farmer and tynel specifically, is the 1:44:25.320 --> 1:44:28.280 one thing that they've tried to do is like inhabit 1:44:28.520 --> 1:44:32.360 nuance and then disingenuously use it absolutely. 1:44:32.560 --> 1:44:35.320 Yes, yes, that's the entire anti vaccines. 1:44:35.800 --> 1:44:38.360 Yeah, yeah, right, and then it leads to people responding 1:44:38.360 --> 1:44:41.160 in a way that it raises nuance entirely. I understand 1:44:41.200 --> 1:44:43.640 where we get that response, but like it's it's not 1:44:44.360 --> 1:44:47.280 the correct response, right, Yeah. People want you to be 1:44:47.400 --> 1:44:50.000 like this is one hundred percent safe. Right. They want 1:44:50.000 --> 1:44:52.040 you to say this is actually the perfect medication and 1:44:52.080 --> 1:44:53.679 it's fine and you should have it for breakfast. 1:44:54.160 --> 1:44:57.880 And the HHS tweeted out statement that Talanold did in 1:44:57.880 --> 1:45:02.960 twenty seventeen basically saying we don't recommend talent All and pregnancy. 1:45:03.439 --> 1:45:08.240 But no drug maker recommends any medication. They all say, specifically, 1:45:08.280 --> 1:45:10.679 talk to your doctor about this medication. They're not allowed 1:45:10.720 --> 1:45:14.200 to recommend the medication. Only doctors can't. So when they're 1:45:14.280 --> 1:45:17.360 using that language and then HHS tweets it out, HHS 1:45:17.439 --> 1:45:20.080 is tweeting it out specifically to give the illusion that 1:45:20.680 --> 1:45:23.679 we don't want pregnant people to be taking this medication. 1:45:23.760 --> 1:45:25.920 They specifically said we don't recommend it, and that's a 1:45:26.000 --> 1:45:28.799 nuance and that's how they use it. And it just sucks. 1:45:28.920 --> 1:45:31.519 Right, that's exactly right. And tile Mall, the makers of it. 1:45:31.920 --> 1:45:33.600 By the way, I am curious about the fact that 1:45:33.720 --> 1:45:36.720 Johnson Johnson spun Off can view. I wonder if they 1:45:36.800 --> 1:45:38.559 knew this was coming and that's why they did it 1:45:38.600 --> 1:45:40.400 the same way that DuPont spun Off. 1:45:40.479 --> 1:45:42.000 It was only three years ago that they did that, 1:45:42.160 --> 1:45:43.200 but you didn't know. 1:45:43.160 --> 1:45:45.640 Like DuPont spun Off, the company in charge of all 1:45:45.640 --> 1:45:48.640 their pfasts they're Forever chemicals, because they knew it was 1:45:48.640 --> 1:45:49.599 coming down the pipeline. 1:45:49.640 --> 1:45:51.280 I wonder if that was the same reason here. Tal 1:45:51.439 --> 1:45:54.760 Mall did this. Well, they put band Aid and nutrigena 1:45:54.840 --> 1:45:56.559 in the same group, so I think it was more 1:45:56.640 --> 1:45:59.559 just to consolidate home stuff. Interesting. 1:45:59.640 --> 1:46:02.880 Yeah, got a press conference coming next week about banding. 1:46:03.600 --> 1:46:06.560 It's can sick cause anxiety. 1:46:06.960 --> 1:46:11.759 Anyways, It's very interesting to me that this is happening 1:46:12.000 --> 1:46:14.240 at all. Really, I mean, what I thought was interesting 1:46:14.280 --> 1:46:17.280 about the press conference, and I wonder if you guys 1:46:17.479 --> 1:46:20.639 picked up on this too, was you know, I was wondering, 1:46:20.640 --> 1:46:23.439 why is this pivot happening? How can RFK Junior be 1:46:23.439 --> 1:46:26.160 happy about this? He can't be happy about leaving his 1:46:26.240 --> 1:46:30.280 crusade against vaccines. The MOHA community behind him clearly doesn't 1:46:30.320 --> 1:46:33.120 love that aspect, and I wonder why they were pivoting 1:46:33.160 --> 1:46:35.400 to that, and I wonder what you guys think about that. 1:46:35.479 --> 1:46:39.000 I did feel that during that press conference, Trump really 1:46:39.000 --> 1:46:42.400 went out of his way to sort of give lip 1:46:42.439 --> 1:46:44.360 service that we should we should talk about this too, 1:46:44.880 --> 1:46:47.519 about vaccines. He talked about vaccines a lot, even though 1:46:47.520 --> 1:46:51.240 there's no new evidence about vaccines causing problems. And Trump 1:46:51.240 --> 1:46:54.880 gave this terrible advice about breaking up the vaccines, which 1:46:54.920 --> 1:46:56.479 we know is a terrible idea because that's going to 1:46:56.560 --> 1:46:58.960 lead to decrease uptake overall. The more visits you have 1:46:59.000 --> 1:47:01.240 to go back to us like you're going to do it. Yeah, 1:47:01.240 --> 1:47:02.959 so the more likely you're not going to be vaccinated. 1:47:03.160 --> 1:47:06.559 But but it made me wonder why this is happening now, 1:47:06.600 --> 1:47:10.000 why they decided to make this pivot, and I wonder 1:47:10.200 --> 1:47:11.960 what you both think about that. 1:47:13.160 --> 1:47:16.160 My theory is the link with fevers. If I'm being 1:47:16.200 --> 1:47:20.519 really conspiratorial, I would say that they're going to try 1:47:20.560 --> 1:47:25.599 and link vaccine induced fever to autism, and they're going 1:47:25.680 --> 1:47:28.200 to say, oh, we thought it was the title and all, 1:47:28.240 --> 1:47:31.360 but it turns out to be the vaccines. It's the fever, 1:47:31.439 --> 1:47:34.120 and the fever is caused by the vaccinees. Yeah. 1:47:34.200 --> 1:47:34.599 Yeah. 1:47:34.640 --> 1:47:38.479 My theory is gender. I think that telling pregnant people 1:47:38.520 --> 1:47:41.080 to suck it up is when you've got you know, 1:47:41.120 --> 1:47:43.160 your dude's all standing on the podium there right, Like 1:47:43.200 --> 1:47:45.679 the majority're pregnant people are going to be women. It's 1:47:45.840 --> 1:47:48.800 something that men have been doing to women for millennia, 1:47:49.280 --> 1:47:52.200 Like it's a safer bet then yeah, your kid might die, 1:47:52.400 --> 1:47:53.320 but you know, you never know. 1:47:54.120 --> 1:47:57.120 Yeah, yeah, which actually is you know that brings up 1:47:57.120 --> 1:47:58.840 another thing I think we should talk about, which is 1:47:58.880 --> 1:48:01.960 what Trump kept saying. Trump kept saying don't take it, 1:48:01.960 --> 1:48:04.880 but what's the worst that happens? Nothing bad will come 1:48:04.920 --> 1:48:09.000 of it, So it invokes this precautionary principle, which is like, 1:48:09.560 --> 1:48:12.519 you know, why not avoid the talent all, what's the 1:48:12.560 --> 1:48:15.880 worst that can happen? And that doesn't work here, No, 1:48:16.120 --> 1:48:18.360 because we know that people are taking this for a fever. 1:48:18.960 --> 1:48:21.160 Talme law is not good for inflammation, doesn't work on 1:48:21.200 --> 1:48:23.920 inflammation the way advilabbiprofen does it, but it can work 1:48:23.920 --> 1:48:27.200 on a fever. And we know that fever can have 1:48:27.720 --> 1:48:30.760 some risk at least as much, if not more than 1:48:30.840 --> 1:48:37.320 tilnol in harm to the baby and harm to the pregnancy. 1:48:37.800 --> 1:48:41.679 So to me, the precautionary principle just doesn't apply here. 1:48:42.200 --> 1:48:44.360 And to hear the president, I never heard a president 1:48:44.400 --> 1:48:47.719 give medical advice before like that. It blew my mind. 1:48:47.800 --> 1:48:50.559 I felt like I was disassociating while I was watching this. 1:48:50.600 --> 1:48:53.200 I'm like, this cannot be realized. He said it so unequivocally, 1:48:53.280 --> 1:48:56.680 don't take talentol, just sec it up. And I tweeted 1:48:57.120 --> 1:49:00.240 something that I read from doctor Glockenplocken, who's one of 1:49:00.280 --> 1:49:04.200 my favorite medical comedians. But he said this will kill people, 1:49:04.320 --> 1:49:07.760 and I do agree. I think people were very incredulous 1:49:07.760 --> 1:49:09.920 when I said this will kill people, and they were like, 1:49:09.960 --> 1:49:12.280 what do you mean people dying of a fever. I'm like, yeah, 1:49:12.360 --> 1:49:15.240 kind of like fevers can be really bad for you, 1:49:15.280 --> 1:49:17.160 and if you're not going to hospital and the only 1:49:17.200 --> 1:49:19.639 thing you have is talentol, it's a really good idea 1:49:19.680 --> 1:49:21.400 to take the talentel. And there's some people that don't 1:49:21.400 --> 1:49:24.120 go to hospital for lots of reasons, and fevers can 1:49:24.200 --> 1:49:24.599 kill you. 1:49:24.640 --> 1:49:25.240 They just can't. 1:49:25.360 --> 1:49:26.439 Yeah, So I. 1:49:26.439 --> 1:49:30.240 Disapprove of the Canadian and englishmen referring to the hospital 1:49:30.280 --> 1:49:33.200 as hospital. They need you guys to refer to it 1:49:33.240 --> 1:49:34.200 as of the hospital. 1:49:34.200 --> 1:49:36.719 I've forgotten about that. Yeah, always for the definite article. 1:49:36.840 --> 1:49:39.320 Yeah, taking it to a hospital, Thank you guys. 1:49:39.720 --> 1:49:41.680 But yeah, I think you're right, Like there is no 1:49:41.800 --> 1:49:44.360 like no harm option here, right, Like that is a 1:49:44.760 --> 1:49:47.599 damage is done when people don't take this, right. 1:49:47.800 --> 1:49:51.040 I just imagine this poor mom you know at home, 1:49:51.200 --> 1:49:53.559 you know, doesn't have great healthcare but does have a 1:49:53.560 --> 1:49:57.680 bottle of talentol and is battling a sorry I'll americanize this, 1:49:57.800 --> 1:50:00.720 like one hundred and four degree fever. Thank you don't 1:50:00.720 --> 1:50:02.559 make me do mad? Yeah, you're going to make me 1:50:02.600 --> 1:50:05.200 do mad, you know, And and you know it's it's 1:50:05.240 --> 1:50:06.920 around that one hundred and three hundred and four mark 1:50:06.960 --> 1:50:09.679 where we actually get really worried about the person's brain. 1:50:09.760 --> 1:50:12.080 We get really worried about their health and what's going 1:50:12.160 --> 1:50:15.280 to happen, and what would happen to that person in hospital? 1:50:15.320 --> 1:50:18.000 They would absolutely get talent al right away, prescribed by 1:50:18.040 --> 1:50:21.639 a doctor right that moment. And so I worry about this. 1:50:22.080 --> 1:50:24.479 I worry about this mom presenting a hospital with her fever, 1:50:25.400 --> 1:50:27.320 she's pregnant, and the doctors say, okay, we're going to 1:50:27.360 --> 1:50:29.559 give you talanol and she says, noah, right, what because 1:50:29.560 --> 1:50:31.400 I don't want I don't want my child to have autism? 1:50:31.520 --> 1:50:34.040 Because people are listening to this guy. First of all, 1:50:34.080 --> 1:50:37.400 again the hospital. Second, they're going to listen to this guy. 1:50:37.640 --> 1:50:38.440 It's insane. 1:50:38.840 --> 1:50:41.840 People are really going to take this advice. And I 1:50:41.880 --> 1:50:46.000 could see, you know, especially the more Trump following people 1:50:46.560 --> 1:50:49.519 saying you will never give me talinl not in this hospital, 1:50:49.640 --> 1:50:52.920 right And so so it does sound silly that not 1:50:52.960 --> 1:50:55.519 taking talanol could kill you. But if you're so scared 1:50:55.520 --> 1:50:58.200 of talinal because it causes autism, that you don't take 1:50:58.200 --> 1:51:01.080 it when it's recommended to you by where it's prescribed 1:51:01.080 --> 1:51:04.599 to you by dark you could die. And I won't 1:51:04.600 --> 1:51:07.800 be surprised when there are more fever induced deaths in 1:51:07.880 --> 1:51:10.200 twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six in the United States. 1:51:10.200 --> 1:51:13.120 I already have the CDC Wonder Data search ready to 1:51:13.160 --> 1:51:15.920 go because I study mortality all the time, and I 1:51:15.960 --> 1:51:18.880 am absolutely sure we're going to see a few more 1:51:19.040 --> 1:51:21.000 fever induced deaths than we would have previously. 1:51:21.520 --> 1:51:36.440 Geez, yeah, maybe like we can finish up by explaining 1:51:36.479 --> 1:51:39.040 to people, like, you know, if you're talking to someone 1:51:39.040 --> 1:51:42.360 in your family, right, someone who maybe isn't a listener 1:51:42.680 --> 1:51:45.840 sadly to either of our podcasts. I know this isn't 1:51:45.840 --> 1:51:49.000 directly the area either of you specialized in, but from 1:51:49.000 --> 1:51:52.599 what I understand, pregnant people like the way that drugs 1:51:52.600 --> 1:51:55.599 are categorized, as we spoke about earlier on. That's not like, yeah, 1:51:55.640 --> 1:51:57.800 go ahead and take all of these right, there's like 1:51:58.600 --> 1:52:02.040 probably fine if you have to, probably a bad idea 1:52:02.120 --> 1:52:06.840 unless you really need to, like maybe some straight up don't. Yeah, 1:52:06.920 --> 1:52:08.360 can you explain that for people? 1:52:08.600 --> 1:52:11.760 Sure? So there's a classification system and it's technical, but 1:52:11.800 --> 1:52:14.800 it's exactly like that. There are very few medications that 1:52:14.880 --> 1:52:19.360 are like totally fine. These are medications that are given 1:52:19.680 --> 1:52:23.519 during pregnancy that have been well studied in pregnancy. But 1:52:23.600 --> 1:52:25.600 for the most part, pretty much everything else in my 1:52:25.640 --> 1:52:30.600 world of psychiatry, you know, SSRIs and antipsychotics and benzodazepines 1:52:30.640 --> 1:52:33.800 and whatnot, they all have the same classification, which is 1:52:33.840 --> 1:52:38.000 basically contraindicated. Don't take it unless your doctor persuades it 1:52:38.040 --> 1:52:41.840 for you. Now, we still get pregnant people with depression 1:52:41.880 --> 1:52:45.320 and psychosis and who need all these medications, and so 1:52:45.400 --> 1:52:48.120 we do have to interpret it based off of the 1:52:48.240 --> 1:52:50.599 data that we have, and the data that we have 1:52:50.680 --> 1:52:53.080 always comes late, so if we find a problem, it's 1:52:53.120 --> 1:52:57.920 found too late, and generally it's precautionary. So typically I 1:52:57.920 --> 1:53:01.160 don't know cave if there's a similar thing in GI work, 1:53:01.240 --> 1:53:03.800 But like for me, I'll get a call all the time. Well, 1:53:03.840 --> 1:53:06.719 we have this woman, she's thirty two, she's really worried. 1:53:07.120 --> 1:53:10.160 She normally takes antidepressants, but she's thinking about stopping them 1:53:10.200 --> 1:53:12.599 because she's really worried about passing into her baby or whatever. 1:53:13.080 --> 1:53:16.240 And I'm like, how bad is the depression? Well, it 1:53:16.280 --> 1:53:18.439 was really bad. She was hospitalized three times and nearly died. 1:53:18.479 --> 1:53:21.559 I was like, probably want to keep antidepressant treatment going 1:53:21.640 --> 1:53:23.559 and just let her know that there could be some 1:53:23.600 --> 1:53:26.639 harm to the fetus. But depression is way worse. And 1:53:27.160 --> 1:53:29.479 if we just go with God, you know, do your best. 1:53:30.320 --> 1:53:33.680 There are certain medications where we are going to say you, absolutetion, 1:53:33.960 --> 1:53:35.120 take these during pregnancy. 1:53:35.200 --> 1:53:36.880 Yeah, and you should. 1:53:36.640 --> 1:53:40.880 Discuss that with your obstrician. You to talk that over 1:53:40.920 --> 1:53:41.320 with your. 1:53:41.280 --> 1:53:44.840 Gynecologist and your primary care doctor. You should talk it 1:53:44.880 --> 1:53:48.200 over with your medical team. That's great, but every medication 1:53:48.600 --> 1:53:52.639 has some small amount of risk, some larger than others. 1:53:53.439 --> 1:53:56.760 But it's really about the risk versus the benefit. And 1:53:57.280 --> 1:54:00.880 this has been well studied by the experts, and what 1:54:01.000 --> 1:54:04.640 you've heard, what those people have heard from Trump and 1:54:05.200 --> 1:54:09.720 RFK Junior is well outside of the normal recommendations right 1:54:09.920 --> 1:54:13.559 from the experts like the ACOG, the American College of 1:54:13.600 --> 1:54:17.839 Obstetricians and kind ofcologists, the people who have been keeping 1:54:17.960 --> 1:54:22.719 our pregnant patients alive and relatively well for many, many years. 1:54:23.160 --> 1:54:26.519 This is well outside of those recommendations. And while it's 1:54:26.560 --> 1:54:30.040 an interesting topic and I think maybe you know, sure, 1:54:30.040 --> 1:54:32.240 i'd like to see more studies on it. I'm never 1:54:32.280 --> 1:54:35.160 going to say don't study this more. I would say 1:54:35.200 --> 1:54:38.760 that the preponderance of evidence and scientific belief and medical 1:54:38.760 --> 1:54:41.920 belief in this one goes against what they're saying, and 1:54:42.080 --> 1:54:44.600 I would say, at least talk it over with your doctor. 1:54:45.040 --> 1:54:47.160 If you have a question, talk it over with your doctor. 1:54:47.680 --> 1:54:50.120 And that's you mentioned it before. Town Law has sort 1:54:50.120 --> 1:54:53.720 of like, you know, try to hedge its bets by 1:54:53.720 --> 1:54:55.640 saying talk it over with your doctor. But the reason 1:54:55.640 --> 1:54:57.920 they do that is they know most doctors are going 1:54:57.960 --> 1:55:01.120 to be reasonable about this and follow the scientific evidence 1:55:01.160 --> 1:55:04.160 that's there. So I would say if they really have 1:55:04.200 --> 1:55:05.760 a question, they shoul talk about with their doctor. 1:55:05.760 --> 1:55:07.840 Because Trump, whether or not they love. 1:55:07.800 --> 1:55:10.480 Him or not, this is well out of his range 1:55:10.600 --> 1:55:14.480 of understanding, and he is getting It's like a game 1:55:14.520 --> 1:55:18.920 of telephone. He's getting a version of the medical information 1:55:19.320 --> 1:55:22.560 transmit to him by RFK Junior, who is getting a 1:55:22.600 --> 1:55:26.800 weird version of it from his belief system. And it's 1:55:26.800 --> 1:55:30.040 being supported by people who are there solely just just 1:55:30.160 --> 1:55:34.520 there to do the back and call of Trump at 1:55:34.560 --> 1:55:38.080 this point, and that's super dangerous. And so if they 1:55:38.120 --> 1:55:40.120 can keep an open mind about it, talking over with 1:55:40.160 --> 1:55:43.440 their doctor, continue to do what their parents did. I 1:55:43.480 --> 1:55:44.960 think they're going to be okay. 1:55:45.320 --> 1:55:48.920 Yeah, real quick, because like for reasons that if you 1:55:48.960 --> 1:55:50.600 related to the way that we do healthcare in the 1:55:50.640 --> 1:55:53.360 United States, people sometimes are retident to talk to their doctor, 1:55:53.440 --> 1:55:57.160 unable to talk to a doctor, reliable sources of medical information. 1:55:57.680 --> 1:55:59.720 That is the shit that you find on Google. Give 1:55:59.800 --> 1:56:01.240 us a a five minute primer. 1:56:01.640 --> 1:56:05.400 Yeah. So you know, in almost every jurisdiction there is 1:56:05.440 --> 1:56:08.080 an official health agency that you can go to their 1:56:08.080 --> 1:56:11.640 website and get good health data. So in BC we 1:56:11.720 --> 1:56:15.000 have Health Length BC and there's a number that you 1:56:15.000 --> 1:56:17.600 can call to speak to a nurse. In America, you 1:56:17.680 --> 1:56:19.560 have great I would say it used to be great. 1:56:19.560 --> 1:56:21.200 Like Cleveland Clinic used to be really great, but they 1:56:21.200 --> 1:56:23.200 got a little hokey. I would still say, you know, 1:56:23.800 --> 1:56:26.520 there are some really good American places that you can go. 1:56:27.080 --> 1:56:29.920 Male Clinic has a lot of public facing information that 1:56:30.000 --> 1:56:34.160 has pretty good general descriptions. But just make sure it's 1:56:34.240 --> 1:56:38.160 from a place that is official, because there is a 1:56:38.200 --> 1:56:41.080 whole space now that's going to be opened up because 1:56:41.120 --> 1:56:44.200 the second part of this presentation that RFK gave was 1:56:44.800 --> 1:56:48.400 about a generic medication that might help some people with 1:56:48.440 --> 1:56:51.400 a very specific form of autism. And I promise you 1:56:51.480 --> 1:56:54.400 the amount of huckstering that's going to happen based on that. 1:56:55.080 --> 1:56:57.200 The alternatives. You know, we made a joke about lemon 1:56:57.280 --> 1:57:00.280 water before the ad break, but there are to be 1:57:00.320 --> 1:57:03.400 people who are going to be selling the alternative titalinol 1:57:03.520 --> 1:57:07.560 that is autism free, and that's really worrisome. 1:57:07.800 --> 1:57:12.360 Yeah, Be wary of anyone that has something in their 1:57:13.240 --> 1:57:18.240 Instagram there to talk their wellness post that uses the 1:57:18.280 --> 1:57:24.240 words detox. Be wary about ancient remedies. Be wary about 1:57:24.280 --> 1:57:27.160 anyone that is selling something like doctor Oz, who, by 1:57:27.200 --> 1:57:30.000 the way, sells a version of the full linic acid 1:57:30.400 --> 1:57:34.640 or the lukovorin that they're talking about here, So be 1:57:34.760 --> 1:57:35.480 wary about that. 1:57:35.520 --> 1:57:36.640 We don't sell shit. 1:57:36.720 --> 1:57:39.880 Be wary about people like doctor Baccarelli, the dean of 1:57:39.960 --> 1:57:42.760 Harvard Epidemiology, who, by the way, I've heard is a 1:57:42.800 --> 1:57:45.880 good doctor from the friends I have in Harvard, they 1:57:45.920 --> 1:57:48.360 say he's not a bad guy. But be wary about 1:57:48.360 --> 1:57:50.520 the fact anytime you see someone's making one hundred and 1:57:50.520 --> 1:57:54.280 fifty thousand dollars off of court trial to sue tailanol 1:57:54.480 --> 1:57:58.280 and has a vested interest in these things, so you 1:57:58.800 --> 1:58:01.680 should be wary about those things. That's definitely something to 1:58:01.720 --> 1:58:04.880 look for in if you're looking for trusted source. Speaking 1:58:04.920 --> 1:58:07.440 of hucksters, you could listen to my podcast The House 1:58:07.480 --> 1:58:10.320 of Pod anywhere you find podcasts where we're going to 1:58:10.400 --> 1:58:13.320 talk about medical stuff just like this, and I will 1:58:13.320 --> 1:58:14.840 bring you trusted sources. 1:58:15.160 --> 1:58:17.680 Beautiful. That was all a long play to get to 1:58:17.680 --> 1:58:19.360 listen to Kave's podcast, But. 1:58:19.400 --> 1:58:20.800 I'm in it for the long con. I'm in it 1:58:20.840 --> 1:58:21.800 for the long con, buddy. 1:58:21.920 --> 1:58:24.160 Yeah, thank you for helping us clear that up a bit. 1:58:24.240 --> 1:58:28.360 I think it's a real rough time for healthcare in general, 1:58:28.440 --> 1:58:32.800 and especially people with autism, like like well nero divergent people. 1:58:33.360 --> 1:58:36.440 It really fucking sucks to see the entire federal government 1:58:36.840 --> 1:58:39.920 bad mouthing people. So, yeah, we are thinking of you. 1:58:40.640 --> 1:58:44.320 Very similar to the issue with trans kids. Like I'm 1:58:44.320 --> 1:58:46.280 a Canadian, you know, and we have right next door 1:58:46.440 --> 1:58:50.480 to my province, Alberta, which is very much taking the 1:58:50.600 --> 1:58:53.360 route of Florida and other things with respect to trans policies, 1:58:53.400 --> 1:58:55.400 and it's just got to suck to be a trans 1:58:55.520 --> 1:58:58.080 kid in Florida right now. It's got to suck to 1:58:58.120 --> 1:59:01.080 be a trans kid anywhere in America right now, knowing 1:59:01.120 --> 1:59:03.280 what's coming down the pipeline, and it'll be the same 1:59:03.280 --> 1:59:06.400 for people with autism and families with autistic kids. 1:59:06.880 --> 1:59:07.720 Yeah, yep. 1:59:08.080 --> 1:59:11.720 I could conservatively complain about this for another three hours. 1:59:12.160 --> 1:59:13.160 Yeah yeah, yeah. 1:59:13.240 --> 1:59:15.440 We didn't even talk about hepatitis B. By the way, 1:59:15.560 --> 1:59:17.640 we didn't talk about hepatities people. We can talk about 1:59:17.640 --> 1:59:20.320 this on the point. There's just so much. There's so much, 1:59:20.600 --> 1:59:24.200 and it's so terrible, and you're absolutely right, it's really 1:59:24.320 --> 1:59:25.960 like for that community right now. 1:59:26.080 --> 1:59:29.320 By the way, I wanted to debunk something because it's 1:59:29.320 --> 1:59:30.480 been said multiple times. 1:59:30.600 --> 1:59:31.400 Yeah, yeah, I get it. 1:59:31.520 --> 1:59:33.760 RFK and a whole bunch of people have said, I 1:59:33.760 --> 1:59:37.600 didn't know anybody autistic when I was you know, when 1:59:37.640 --> 1:59:39.400 I was a kid or whatever. I've never met someone 1:59:39.400 --> 1:59:43.520 autistic my age. Donald Triplett was the very first person 1:59:43.600 --> 1:59:47.720 diagnosed with autism in nineteen forty three, I believe nineteen 1:59:47.760 --> 1:59:51.080 forty three. He just died last year. I think he 1:59:51.280 --> 1:59:56.480 was something like eighty ninety years old. Okay, autistic people 1:59:56.560 --> 1:59:59.960 are old too. This idea that there aren't old autio 2:00:00.000 --> 2:00:05.440 fistic people is so asked backwards. It was just not diagnosed. Yes, 2:00:05.680 --> 2:00:09.040 and and and it's it's such a shame because when 2:00:09.840 --> 2:00:12.480 when when Donald Tripplett passed, you know, like people in 2:00:12.480 --> 2:00:14.480 psychiatry notes, that's not the type of thing that people 2:00:14.480 --> 2:00:16.360 in the world noticed. But he was the very first 2:00:16.400 --> 2:00:19.880 autistic person. He lived a full life, he was an engineer. 2:00:20.400 --> 2:00:22.760 He had autism, it was diagnosed. He was the first 2:00:22.760 --> 2:00:26.440 ever case diagnosed. And he also lived a life. And 2:00:26.440 --> 2:00:29.879 and so for for RFK to just erase him completely 2:00:29.880 --> 2:00:32.760 and say I've never known an old person to have autism, 2:00:33.080 --> 2:00:34.120 it's just ridiculous. 2:00:34.480 --> 2:00:37.480 Yeah. And if you conduct yourself as Rskade does, but 2:00:37.640 --> 2:00:40.240 being a piece of shit to neurodivergent people, then even 2:00:40.280 --> 2:00:42.400 people who who have been diagnosed, I'm just going to 2:00:42.440 --> 2:00:43.720 be like, hey man, yeah, I wanted to talk to 2:00:43.720 --> 2:00:47.240 you about more because you're being a turd to them, 2:00:47.360 --> 2:00:50.560 and like you're being unkind. Yeah, Like what do you expect? 2:00:50.720 --> 2:00:55.320 Yeah, I mean yeah, Tyler grand In is like how 2:00:55.360 --> 2:00:58.240 old is she now, like in her seventies. I mean, 2:00:58.360 --> 2:01:01.720 it's it's absurd to think that this is a totally 2:01:01.760 --> 2:01:02.200 new thing. 2:01:02.360 --> 2:01:05.360 I mean it it also tells me that he was 2:01:05.400 --> 2:01:09.000 probably a bit sheltered and it probably didn't meet enough people. 2:01:09.000 --> 2:01:10.320 Wow, Kennedy sheltered. 2:01:10.360 --> 2:01:10.560 Wow. 2:01:11.080 --> 2:01:13.720 Yeah. Yeah, he's had a different experience of life than 2:01:13.760 --> 2:01:15.920 any of us. It's fair to say. 2:01:16.040 --> 2:01:18.160 I got through the whole podcast without making a Tyler 2:01:18.200 --> 2:01:20.600 and All pun. I'm very proud of that. I usually 2:01:20.640 --> 2:01:22.760 do pretty much every time, and it kisses my wife 2:01:22.760 --> 2:01:25.960 off so much. I'm really proud of you, man. I 2:01:26.040 --> 2:01:27.000 showed a lot of growth. 2:01:27.120 --> 2:01:29.840 Yeah, yeah, that's great. I was gonna make one, but 2:01:30.240 --> 2:01:35.120 I thought I didn't want to want to offend. Yeah, 2:01:35.160 --> 2:01:37.920 thank you very much. Where can people find both of 2:01:37.920 --> 2:01:40.280 you on the internet if they'd like to, oh, you know, 2:01:40.320 --> 2:01:40.839 in person? 2:01:41.800 --> 2:01:46.080 Don't find that as You can listen to my podcast, 2:01:46.160 --> 2:01:48.800 The House of Pod. Anywhere you listen to podcasts, you'll 2:01:48.840 --> 2:01:51.360 hear people like James, you'll hear people like Tyler. Last 2:01:51.360 --> 2:01:54.760 time Tyler was on was actually for episode two eighty four. 2:01:55.080 --> 2:01:59.800 We did an episode on Adult ADHD with author Rex King. 2:02:00.120 --> 2:02:02.800 She's Brad so that's a good episode to listen to. 2:02:03.400 --> 2:02:05.760 And you can find me on Blue Sky at CAVEMD. 2:02:06.080 --> 2:02:08.800 I still have a Twitter account and Instagram account, but 2:02:08.800 --> 2:02:10.280 I don't really use those that much, so find me 2:02:10.320 --> 2:02:12.680 on Blue Sky, Blue Sky by the way, as a 2:02:12.680 --> 2:02:15.360 shout out, as a plug. I think it's good for 2:02:15.480 --> 2:02:19.440 science if you're interested in science based stuff. It may 2:02:19.440 --> 2:02:21.520 not be that much fun for everything else, but at 2:02:21.600 --> 2:02:23.440 least in terms of like if you want to follow 2:02:23.640 --> 2:02:26.760 doctors scientists, that's a good place to go. That's where 2:02:26.800 --> 2:02:29.520 a lot of us have gone. So I'll be there 2:02:29.600 --> 2:02:30.520 at Blue Sky. 2:02:30.840 --> 2:02:33.760 Yeah, and I'm I am still on Twitter Tyler Black 2:02:33.800 --> 2:02:36.480 thirty two. I'm slugging it out. It is a lot 2:02:36.520 --> 2:02:38.880 of hate and a lot of death threats now, especially 2:02:38.960 --> 2:02:42.000 as I've I've been on a few trans podcasts, I've 2:02:42.000 --> 2:02:45.840 been on quite a few medical anti vacs and vaccine podcasts, 2:02:45.920 --> 2:02:49.080 So you know, I'll pop up from time to time 2:02:49.120 --> 2:02:51.240 on a podcast or something. But I'm not really have 2:02:51.320 --> 2:02:56.000 anything to plug anymore. I'm just really hoping that we 2:02:56.080 --> 2:02:59.880 can continue to fight this sort of It's a really 2:03:00.000 --> 2:03:03.680 disgusting reality in this decade that misinformation has won the 2:03:03.760 --> 2:03:07.440 day and literally misinformers are the political leaders now, and 2:03:07.560 --> 2:03:11.560 misinformation has just eroded science to the point where I 2:03:11.560 --> 2:03:13.280 don't know if America is ever going to get it back. 2:03:14.000 --> 2:03:16.880 Yeah, if we do. This has set us back many years. 2:03:17.320 --> 2:03:18.760 This has set us back many many years. 2:03:18.840 --> 2:03:20.320 Yeah, it's pretty bleak. 2:03:21.080 --> 2:03:21.880 Well that was fun. 2:03:22.640 --> 2:03:44.680 Let's send on that hopeful note. Yeah, all right, hey everyone, 2:03:44.800 --> 2:03:47.760 it's James here. We promised that we would get you 2:03:47.880 --> 2:03:52.720 something on the changes or lack thereof after Donald Trump's 2:03:52.720 --> 2:03:57.360 series of executive orders targeting certain groups, and we reached 2:03:57.400 --> 2:04:00.680 out to a lawyer, Moe, who is a fantastic lawyer, 2:04:00.720 --> 2:04:03.200 and we asked he into you them. They said they 2:04:03.240 --> 2:04:05.840 had just done an interview with Final Store Radio, which 2:04:05.880 --> 2:04:09.720 is an excellent show, and they suggested that I take 2:04:09.800 --> 2:04:11.200 listen to that. I took a listen to that, and 2:04:11.240 --> 2:04:13.360 I think it's a fantastic interview and I don't think 2:04:13.400 --> 2:04:16.520 as much as that we can add to it. So 2:04:16.560 --> 2:04:20.360 we're going to re air that interview in full. The 2:04:20.440 --> 2:04:22.640 one thing I would add to it is that there 2:04:22.640 --> 2:04:25.120 have been a number of cases recently where grand juries 2:04:25.160 --> 2:04:29.440 have not returned an indictment. That's relatively rare, but we 2:04:29.480 --> 2:04:34.000 are seeing that more frequently, and that just enforces everything 2:04:34.080 --> 2:04:36.880 that most says here, which is that at this time 2:04:36.960 --> 2:04:40.040 we still have separation of powers, and at this time 2:04:40.360 --> 2:04:43.840 the executive cannot simply make law. One still has to 2:04:43.840 --> 2:04:47.320 be prosecuted according to a statute by a district attorney 2:04:47.440 --> 2:04:51.040 or a USA attorney. Right, they President cannot just make 2:04:51.120 --> 2:04:55.920 law in this instance pertaining to the First Amendment by 2:04:56.520 --> 2:04:59.200 executive order. That doesn't mean that they will not be harassment. 2:04:59.240 --> 2:05:01.560 And as you're here here, there's two distinct things, and 2:05:01.600 --> 2:05:04.160 I think MO gives an excellent outline on how we 2:05:04.200 --> 2:05:08.760 should think about and conceive this moment in American history. So, 2:05:09.440 --> 2:05:11.840 without any more of me taking your time, this is 2:05:11.840 --> 2:05:13.800 an excellent interview that bursted with MO. I hope you 2:05:13.920 --> 2:05:16.160 enjoy it, and if you would like to check out 2:05:16.200 --> 2:05:18.640 Final Store Radio, you can do so using the link 2:05:18.680 --> 2:05:20.240 that I will put below this episode. 2:05:23.640 --> 2:05:27.240 Could you please introduce yourself for the audience with any name, pronouns, location, 2:05:27.720 --> 2:05:30.760 or other contexts that would help us understand who you are. 2:05:30.880 --> 2:05:34.560 Good morning. I'm Moura Meltzer Cohen. Everybody calls me MO. 2:05:35.240 --> 2:05:39.200 My pronouns are they are MO. I'm an abolitionist, an educator, 2:05:39.240 --> 2:05:43.240 and an attorney in New York. Primarily I represent people 2:05:43.240 --> 2:05:46.480 who are arrested in the course of justice struggles and 2:05:47.040 --> 2:05:51.960 do advocacy for incarcerated people and movements. 2:05:52.360 --> 2:05:54.400 So we're here to talk about the recent White House 2:05:54.400 --> 2:05:58.040 statements following the assass I mean, I mean following the 2:05:58.480 --> 2:06:03.160 reelection of Trump, but more recently the assassination of Charles 2:06:03.240 --> 2:06:07.640 Kirk that Antifa is domestic terrorist organization. 2:06:08.440 --> 2:06:09.880 Can you talk about what. 2:06:09.880 --> 2:06:13.080 Legally changed with the executive order of September twenty second 2:06:13.120 --> 2:06:16.120 of this year or yesterday ism when we're recording this 2:06:16.320 --> 2:06:21.440 National Presidential Security Memo number seven titled countering Domestic Terrorism 2:06:21.560 --> 2:06:25.000 and Organized Political Violence. Again, it came out on September 2:06:25.040 --> 2:06:27.360 twenty fifth, What changed with those? 2:06:28.360 --> 2:06:32.240 Well, Before I answer that question, the first thing I 2:06:32.280 --> 2:06:35.040 want to say is nothing that I say on this 2:06:35.080 --> 2:06:39.760 program is legal advice. This is information. If you want 2:06:39.840 --> 2:06:43.840 legal advice, I vigorously encourage you to have a privileged 2:06:43.880 --> 2:06:49.160 conversation with a human attorney who is admitted to practice 2:06:49.200 --> 2:06:53.760 in your jurisdiction. As to your overall question, what changed 2:06:54.440 --> 2:06:58.800 legally is essentially nothing. I think the top level takeaway 2:06:58.840 --> 2:07:02.160 here is that these exists executive orders are frightening. They 2:07:02.400 --> 2:07:07.440 are a frightening contribution to an already dangerous political discourse, 2:07:07.520 --> 2:07:10.960 and they may very well end up being quite disruptive 2:07:11.440 --> 2:07:18.280 to left movements, including I think primarily centrist liberal movements. 2:07:18.560 --> 2:07:23.120 But nothing that was legal last week is illegal this week. 2:07:23.160 --> 2:07:27.680 Certainly not because of those statements. And the state cannot 2:07:27.680 --> 2:07:30.400 prosecute you for things that were legal when you did them. 2:07:30.680 --> 2:07:34.040 So yeah, I mean, I can't see the future, but 2:07:34.280 --> 2:07:37.520 as of right now, the law and the constitution have 2:07:37.800 --> 2:07:42.560 not changed. So if this administration wants to in any 2:07:42.600 --> 2:07:48.920 meaningful legal way designate anyone, any group as domestic terrorists, 2:07:49.480 --> 2:07:52.720 they can change the law, which is not going to 2:07:52.720 --> 2:07:56.240 be quick or easy, or they can dispense with the law. 2:07:56.720 --> 2:08:00.320 But under the current legal regime, there is no mechanism 2:08:00.800 --> 2:08:06.680 that would make it illegal to be and to whatever 2:08:06.760 --> 2:08:11.160 that means, or to hold anti fascist values, or to 2:08:11.280 --> 2:08:15.200 assemble or to petition the government. And you know, to 2:08:15.280 --> 2:08:19.520 be clear, not that doing any of those things or 2:08:19.520 --> 2:08:23.440 being any of those things are necessarily effective at creating 2:08:23.480 --> 2:08:26.640 social change right now, but my point really is they're 2:08:26.680 --> 2:08:27.560 not illegal. 2:08:28.160 --> 2:08:30.120 Just to sort of throw this back your way, So 2:08:30.240 --> 2:08:32.080 there was when you were responding to that, it made 2:08:32.120 --> 2:08:35.880 me think of there's a veteran who lost a bunch 2:08:35.920 --> 2:08:40.320 of his property during the Helene hurricane that is, you know, 2:08:40.360 --> 2:08:43.760 about a year ago hit this region. He was recorded 2:08:44.200 --> 2:08:48.480 like he went pretty viral calling out and shouting down 2:08:48.720 --> 2:08:53.000 a state politician who had a like public meeting here 2:08:53.040 --> 2:08:55.920 in the area, just saying there's been like total like 2:08:56.040 --> 2:08:58.640 lack of support after the storm and hear all the 2:08:58.680 --> 2:09:00.440 needs and you're just a lying politicans and this sort 2:09:00.480 --> 2:09:04.640 of thing. The same man, right after the executive order 2:09:04.680 --> 2:09:09.480 that Trump made about burning US flags, went out and 2:09:09.520 --> 2:09:11.960 burned one across from the White House and then he 2:09:12.000 --> 2:09:14.960 got arrested for it. Like I thought that there was 2:09:15.040 --> 2:09:17.720 a Supreme Court decision back in the eighties that said 2:09:17.760 --> 2:09:20.440 it's not actually illegal to burn a flag. So does 2:09:20.440 --> 2:09:23.360 that make his executive orders now law? 2:09:23.840 --> 2:09:25.600 No, there is. 2:09:25.520 --> 2:09:29.800 A Supreme Court decision. It's called Texas v. Johnson, and 2:09:30.000 --> 2:09:33.960 it is still law. And in fact, after Texas v. Johnson, 2:09:34.440 --> 2:09:41.720 Congress actually tried to make a federal statute criminalizing burning 2:09:41.800 --> 2:09:46.320 the American flag and it was found on constitutional It 2:09:46.440 --> 2:09:52.800 is astonishing and illuminating that that man was arrested for 2:09:52.880 --> 2:09:57.000 burning an American flag, which is absolutely constitutionally protected conduct. 2:09:57.480 --> 2:10:00.720 I will say, I'm not sure what he was at actually. 2:10:01.200 --> 2:10:06.400 Charged with, right if he was charged with, you know, 2:10:06.480 --> 2:10:10.560 creating a fire hazard, I suppose that apart from the 2:10:10.600 --> 2:10:12.800 fact that it's clearly First Amendment retaliation. 2:10:13.400 --> 2:10:17.160 I suppose that you could be criminally charged with creating 2:10:17.160 --> 2:10:20.120 a fire hazard in a public place or something like that, 2:10:20.240 --> 2:10:27.120 but no flag burning remains protected regardless of what the 2:10:27.160 --> 2:10:31.680 President or Congress says about it. It would take either 2:10:32.040 --> 2:10:37.880 an amendment to the Constitution or a very serious change 2:10:37.920 --> 2:10:42.320 in Supreme Court jurisprudence to make flag burning illegal. 2:10:42.840 --> 2:10:46.880 Okay, Yeah, so this is the distinction I'd love for 2:10:46.960 --> 2:10:49.520 us to get back to in a moment between like 2:10:49.920 --> 2:10:54.480 legality versus what, you know, the sort of like box 2:10:54.560 --> 2:10:58.280 that that powers decide to put a thing into. Like 2:10:58.320 --> 2:11:01.560 I know, I've I've definitely been totained, not for being 2:11:01.600 --> 2:11:03.840 an annoyance to the cops, but within my legal rights. 2:11:03.840 --> 2:11:05.840 But they'll say, ah, but your shoes untied on a 2:11:05.880 --> 2:11:10.680 Tuesday whatever, and then waste my time. 2:11:11.640 --> 2:11:14.120 Let's talk about that. And because I do want to 2:11:14.160 --> 2:11:17.800 talk with more specificity about these specific executive orders and statements, 2:11:18.280 --> 2:11:22.720 and also about what legal mechanisms do exist that are 2:11:22.960 --> 2:11:28.960 and can be and have long been used to surveil 2:11:29.080 --> 2:11:32.960 and disrupt and target the left. But actually, before we 2:11:33.080 --> 2:11:34.960 do that, why don't we talk about sort of some 2:11:35.000 --> 2:11:38.160 of the categories that are played in playing here and 2:11:38.600 --> 2:11:43.080 be really clear about definitions, or at least understand that 2:11:43.120 --> 2:11:46.480 there are differences between these categories, right, because there is 2:11:46.560 --> 2:11:52.240 a difference between the law and political discourse, and there 2:11:52.280 --> 2:11:58.600 is a difference importantly between law and power. And there's certainly, 2:11:58.720 --> 2:12:05.000 at least on daylight, between the legal constraints on state 2:12:05.200 --> 2:12:09.400 power and the state's power to ignore those constraints. And 2:12:09.440 --> 2:12:12.680 then I think what will be significant to this discussion 2:12:12.760 --> 2:12:18.320 is there is a significant difference between antifa, which is 2:12:18.360 --> 2:12:22.360 a set of practices or beliefs that are not necessarily 2:12:22.400 --> 2:12:27.040 even all that well defined, and what this administration refers 2:12:27.080 --> 2:12:32.680 to when it uses or deploys the word antifa. And 2:12:32.760 --> 2:12:35.640 there is yet more difference between the booking man that 2:12:35.760 --> 2:12:39.760 is being invoked by that word and the individuals and 2:12:39.880 --> 2:12:43.840 organizations that the administration actually intends to target. There's a 2:12:43.880 --> 2:12:49.480 difference between political targeting, surveillance, disruption, and prosecution, right, those 2:12:49.520 --> 2:12:54.160 things are all different, And there's a difference between prosecution 2:12:54.400 --> 2:12:59.080 and conviction. And there is an important difference between someone's 2:12:59.120 --> 2:13:05.000 political belief and associations which are and remain protected by 2:13:05.040 --> 2:13:10.200 the First Amendment and politically motivated conduct that is illegal. 2:13:10.640 --> 2:13:15.160 So you know, executive orders and these kinds of statements 2:13:15.200 --> 2:13:19.960 on national security are policy statements. They don't in and 2:13:20.040 --> 2:13:22.640 of themselves make things happen. They don't in and of 2:13:22.680 --> 2:13:25.760 themselves change the law. And an executive order that is 2:13:25.800 --> 2:13:29.760 inconsistent with the constitution or existing law at least ought 2:13:29.760 --> 2:13:30.960 to be unenforceable. 2:13:31.120 --> 2:13:35.840 Okay, but yeah, but recognizing that that distinction, you know, 2:13:36.080 --> 2:13:39.520 cops are going to cop, investigators are going to investigate, 2:13:39.800 --> 2:13:45.200 and those processes are disruptive for people whose lives they're affecting. 2:13:45.280 --> 2:13:48.880 They can affect your job prospects, they can affect your 2:13:49.080 --> 2:13:53.000 housing stability. They can affect whether or not some unhinged 2:13:53.040 --> 2:13:55.680 person decides to attack you because they've heard some conspiracy 2:13:55.720 --> 2:13:59.800 theory about you. But so that distinction of like, well, 2:13:59.840 --> 2:14:03.360 you might get exonerated by a court after you've been 2:14:03.440 --> 2:14:07.080 held in pre trial for a year, I guess that 2:14:07.160 --> 2:14:09.120 is an important distinction, right, because it means you're not 2:14:09.120 --> 2:14:12.880 spending you know, an extra thirty years or twenty years 2:14:12.920 --> 2:14:13.960 or whatever behind bars. 2:14:14.000 --> 2:14:16.120 With the terrorism enhancement, well. 2:14:15.920 --> 2:14:19.280 I mean that is also called comfort. I'm really not 2:14:19.320 --> 2:14:22.160 trying to be dismissive. I think it's important to recognize 2:14:22.160 --> 2:14:25.440 what these distinctions are and the primarily because I want 2:14:25.440 --> 2:14:29.160 people to understand what exactly we need to be prepared 2:14:29.280 --> 2:14:33.320 for and what we need to be worried about, and 2:14:33.360 --> 2:14:38.280 what tools we have and what tools are effective at 2:14:38.320 --> 2:14:40.720 resisting what's coming down the pike. And in order to 2:14:40.760 --> 2:14:42.880 do that, we need to know what's coming down the pipe. 2:14:42.960 --> 2:14:46.600 We need to know who actually has power in this situation. 2:14:46.800 --> 2:14:49.440 The fact that an executive order doesn't change the law 2:14:49.520 --> 2:14:52.080 does not mean an executive order will not result in 2:14:52.120 --> 2:14:55.080 a lot more state repression, or that it won't disrupt 2:14:55.080 --> 2:14:58.640 movements or even ruin lives. It doesn't mean that Trump 2:14:58.760 --> 2:15:00.800 is not going to a comp the thing that I 2:15:00.800 --> 2:15:03.839 think he's actually trying to accomplish here in the immediate 2:15:03.880 --> 2:15:08.280 short term, which is broadcasting to his base that non 2:15:08.560 --> 2:15:13.160 state action against people identified as or perceived to be 2:15:13.760 --> 2:15:17.960 part of the despised group you know is desirable by 2:15:18.000 --> 2:15:22.040 this administration will be condoned by this administration. I think 2:15:22.040 --> 2:15:25.280 that is important to recognize. Saying that it doesn't change 2:15:25.280 --> 2:15:27.800 a law does not mean it is dangerous. I just 2:15:27.880 --> 2:15:30.400 want to be very precise about I think the ways 2:15:30.400 --> 2:15:32.600 in which it is likely to be dangerous, and some 2:15:32.680 --> 2:15:34.880 of the ways that it might not might not be. 2:15:35.160 --> 2:15:38.320 And again I'm not trying to be dismissive, but state 2:15:38.400 --> 2:15:43.800 repression exists all the time. State repression against leftists and 2:15:43.840 --> 2:15:47.760 anarchism in particular has been ongoing the whole time. This 2:15:47.920 --> 2:15:50.520 is not a Trump thing, And in fact, I think 2:15:50.520 --> 2:15:53.160 it's important to note that the executive who's probably most 2:15:53.240 --> 2:15:56.840 responsible for having laid this groundwork is Biden, who set 2:15:56.840 --> 2:16:01.200 forth a policy strategy that focused on funding the federal 2:16:01.240 --> 2:16:04.680 targeting of what at that point he was calling political extremists, 2:16:05.240 --> 2:16:07.640 which was a label that was being applied to groups 2:16:07.680 --> 2:16:10.480 on the left as well as neo Nazis and all 2:16:10.600 --> 2:16:15.400 right groups. So this administration has already been engaged, and 2:16:15.880 --> 2:16:20.360 not just this administration, right, we have centuries at this 2:16:20.560 --> 2:16:26.520 point of targeted disruption of left movements. The way that 2:16:26.560 --> 2:16:30.280 it's currently being rationalized is a little bit different. The 2:16:30.320 --> 2:16:36.320 way that it's being broadcast normalized is a little bit different, 2:16:36.400 --> 2:16:39.720 but it's I will say, I don't think this is 2:16:39.800 --> 2:16:44.520 actually anything all that new or different, And the difference 2:16:44.560 --> 2:16:48.400 in how dangerous it is is one of scale maybe 2:16:48.480 --> 2:16:52.279 rather than it's a difference in scope, Rather than nature. 2:16:52.959 --> 2:16:55.120 I think, yeah, I think that's an important distinction. I 2:16:55.120 --> 2:16:58.199 think that like sometimes people in the center and even 2:16:58.240 --> 2:17:01.720 sometimes people on the left will look in particular things 2:17:01.760 --> 2:17:07.760 that Trump administrations do because they are obfuscatory, they're like confusing, 2:17:08.240 --> 2:17:12.200 and they're bombastic, and there's a part of us that 2:17:12.400 --> 2:17:15.280 we'll say like, no, but that's that's not what's actually happening, 2:17:15.320 --> 2:17:17.760 that's not what actually was the motivation for that person, 2:17:17.920 --> 2:17:20.680 or like that person voted you know, Republican in the 2:17:20.760 --> 2:17:23.039 last election. Whatever. And so I think that that distinction 2:17:23.080 --> 2:17:25.280 that you're making of you know this, this may not 2:17:25.440 --> 2:17:28.360 this may be like an approach to motivate the base, 2:17:29.320 --> 2:17:32.920 it may prove not to be legally like standing, but 2:17:33.240 --> 2:17:35.840 that doesn't mean that it doesn't have an impact on people. 2:17:36.959 --> 2:17:39.240 And what we should be looking for out of this 2:17:39.520 --> 2:17:43.520 is a projection of not only like all call to 2:17:43.560 --> 2:17:46.879 action or red meat for the base or whatever, but 2:17:47.000 --> 2:17:50.920 also like a clear proposition of that's meant to chill 2:17:51.800 --> 2:17:56.040 us and chill some society, that these are the intentions 2:17:56.080 --> 2:17:58.080 moving forward. This is the narrative, and this is the 2:17:58.120 --> 2:17:59.760 story that they're going to be going. 2:17:59.520 --> 2:18:02.640 With right absolutely, And I think it is important to 2:18:02.680 --> 2:18:06.279 point out. Right now, we're seeing a lot of people 2:18:06.280 --> 2:18:10.400 pointing out the hypocrisy and the sort of the fact 2:18:10.480 --> 2:18:16.800 that these rationales are really untethered from factual reality. And 2:18:17.200 --> 2:18:21.000 I suppose that's true and important to note, but pointing 2:18:21.000 --> 2:18:24.400 out the hypocrisy is not going to be particularly useful. 2:18:24.480 --> 2:18:26.520 I mean, I think it's part of the point, right 2:18:26.959 --> 2:18:33.040 Manipulating the facts, making narrative claims that are totally unsupportable, 2:18:33.400 --> 2:18:38.200 and muddying the waters in this really fundamental way is 2:18:38.520 --> 2:18:39.720 part of the project. 2:18:39.959 --> 2:18:45.440 There was a German jurist I guess who became the 2:18:45.480 --> 2:18:49.120 highest jurist during the Nazi regime in Germany, but continued 2:18:49.120 --> 2:18:52.080 writing theory like was writing it before as a member 2:18:52.080 --> 2:18:54.959 of the Conservative Revolution that they called it, and then 2:18:55.000 --> 2:18:57.960 afterwards he survived the war and continued living in Germany 2:18:58.040 --> 2:19:02.560 writing Carl Schmidt, who talked a lot about like the 2:19:02.680 --> 2:19:09.920 limits of liberal approaches towards legality and liberal governance, with 2:19:10.040 --> 2:19:12.480 a belief that like it makes sense to push it 2:19:12.520 --> 2:19:16.160 to its limits and beyond break it and recognize that 2:19:16.320 --> 2:19:20.120 governance is about the imposition of power and the sheltering 2:19:20.360 --> 2:19:23.760 of those who are under the controller or in the 2:19:23.760 --> 2:19:27.800 protected community of the state with a consideration of war 2:19:28.240 --> 2:19:31.160 through the state's power against internal enemies as well as 2:19:31.200 --> 2:19:34.200 external enemies. And this is the devil's bargain that we make. 2:19:34.280 --> 2:19:38.320 It's like Hobbs on steroids. And it feels like a 2:19:38.320 --> 2:19:40.840 lot of the stuff that the Heritage Foundation and Project 2:19:40.840 --> 2:19:44.080 twenty twenty five has been pushing is that they have this. 2:19:44.160 --> 2:19:47.480 I know that there are some theocrats in that movement. 2:19:47.879 --> 2:19:52.240 There's the unitary executive theory that a lot of them 2:19:52.240 --> 2:19:55.120 have been pushing, and they'll play with this idea like 2:19:55.120 --> 2:19:57.520 the Trump administration will play with this identity of the 2:19:57.640 --> 2:20:01.080 King King Trump or whatever the on as it were, 2:20:01.320 --> 2:20:04.720 like making these executive decisions and being unbeholden to anything else. 2:20:04.760 --> 2:20:08.199 And they've actually been like, you know, saying to courts, 2:20:08.280 --> 2:20:10.640 you can't stop us from deporting these peoples who with 2:20:10.840 --> 2:20:15.560 unsafe third country whatever, stop us. I wonder if, like 2:20:15.760 --> 2:20:18.520 I wonder if you have any comments on this, if 2:20:18.560 --> 2:20:20.040 I'm coming out of left field or what. 2:20:20.480 --> 2:20:23.360 Well, look, I'll say this for Carl Schmidt as opposed 2:20:23.400 --> 2:20:27.040 to the Heritage Foundation, he was at least intellectually honest. 2:20:27.520 --> 2:20:29.960 Yeah, I think that we are in this moment where 2:20:29.959 --> 2:20:32.240 they're trying to normalize what we Schmidt would have called 2:20:32.320 --> 2:20:36.080 like a state of exception, where they're sort of unbridled 2:20:36.320 --> 2:20:40.320 executive power and the sort of suspension of any constraints 2:20:40.400 --> 2:20:41.199 on state power. 2:20:41.320 --> 2:20:46.200 Right. And it's funny because I've been in conversations over 2:20:46.240 --> 2:20:49.080 the last months where I'm talking with a bunch of 2:20:49.080 --> 2:20:52.640 my friends, none of whom are particularly enamored of the 2:20:52.680 --> 2:20:56.000 current legal regime, and we're talking about how dangerous it 2:20:56.040 --> 2:20:59.000 is that the administration is dispensing with the rule of law, 2:20:59.280 --> 2:21:02.080 you know, And it's sort of amusing for a bunch 2:21:02.080 --> 2:21:04.320 of anarchists to be like, oh, no, the rule of 2:21:04.400 --> 2:21:07.760 laws collapsing. But when I'm talking about the rule of 2:21:07.840 --> 2:21:10.640 law in this way, I'm really talking about constraints on 2:21:10.760 --> 2:21:13.560 state power, and those are what's collapsing. And that's exactly 2:21:13.600 --> 2:21:17.879 what Schmidt envisioned and argued for. Frankly, and I do 2:21:17.920 --> 2:21:19.440 think we're seeing that. I think one of the things 2:21:19.480 --> 2:21:22.000 that I noticed in some of these eos, especially the 2:21:22.520 --> 2:21:24.920 couple of statements from the last few days, is he 2:21:25.040 --> 2:21:28.120 keeps talking about things like love of God and Christian 2:21:28.120 --> 2:21:32.640 anti Christian sentiment, which is I mean, you know, this 2:21:32.840 --> 2:21:38.000 is entirely incompatible with the First Amendment, which provides no 2:21:38.120 --> 2:21:42.320 state shall establish your religion, right. I mean, we really 2:21:42.400 --> 2:21:49.199 are outside the contours of recognized you know, legal norms, 2:21:49.560 --> 2:21:53.640 constitutional norms, and I think a lot of this stuff 2:21:53.760 --> 2:21:57.600 is functioning and is meant to normalize this kind of 2:21:57.760 --> 2:22:02.640 discourse and to inject it not only into the exercise 2:22:02.680 --> 2:22:06.560 of government power, but to normalize it in terms of 2:22:06.600 --> 2:22:10.720 what people understand to be legitimate legal discourse. 2:22:21.320 --> 2:22:24.440 Kind of shifting a bit like let's get into some 2:22:24.560 --> 2:22:27.560 of the implications of this. So if it hasn't changed law, 2:22:27.640 --> 2:22:31.359 but we recognize that practices and culture are being shifted. 2:22:31.600 --> 2:22:33.480 I've heard of a bunch of people getting fired and 2:22:33.560 --> 2:22:36.879 getting docsing attention. There's a website now I think called 2:22:36.920 --> 2:22:38.959 like who Killed Charlie Kirk? Are the people who killed 2:22:39.040 --> 2:22:40.840 Charlie Kirk or something like that, and maybe an app. 2:22:40.920 --> 2:22:45.360 It's kind of like the post Charlie Kirk assassination version 2:22:45.400 --> 2:22:48.320 of Canary emission. Does this mean that police are coming 2:22:48.360 --> 2:22:51.760 after people for sharing memes? Is that happening? Is that 2:22:51.800 --> 2:22:53.160 what's happening in these cases? 2:22:54.040 --> 2:22:56.520 I mean police have always been coming after people for 2:22:56.560 --> 2:23:00.600 sharing memes. I would say, I get calls at least 2:23:00.720 --> 2:23:05.039 every month from people who have been visited by federal 2:23:05.080 --> 2:23:09.120 agents because they said something on the Internet that was 2:23:09.240 --> 2:23:11.760 upsetting to somebody else and then they reported it, and 2:23:11.800 --> 2:23:14.920 the FBI is just following up on a tip. But 2:23:15.400 --> 2:23:19.600 that said, this doesn't vitiate the First Amendment. Let me 2:23:19.640 --> 2:23:20.920 say that in human. 2:23:20.720 --> 2:23:22.360 Language, thank you. 2:23:23.640 --> 2:23:28.879 This does not undermine the First Amendment. The First Amendment 2:23:28.959 --> 2:23:34.640 still exists, and all of the legal framework around having 2:23:34.680 --> 2:23:37.080 the right to say things as long as those things 2:23:37.120 --> 2:23:42.360 are not true threats, that still exists. So it is 2:23:42.400 --> 2:23:48.520 not unusual for people to be targeted or monitored or 2:23:48.600 --> 2:23:52.600 visited by law enforcement, but typically that stuff doesn't actually 2:23:52.600 --> 2:23:56.600 really go anywhere. I am concerned about people being subject 2:23:56.600 --> 2:24:01.119 to doxing and having negative social content sequences and fallout 2:24:01.240 --> 2:24:04.120 from this kind of stuff, and it certainly is you know, 2:24:04.200 --> 2:24:08.560 can be life ruining. Again, I don't mean to trivialize 2:24:08.600 --> 2:24:12.840 the effects of this kind of retaliation social retaliate, but 2:24:12.959 --> 2:24:16.720 it is not the same thing as a criminal prosecution 2:24:16.840 --> 2:24:21.000 or a criminal conviction. It's a different set of mechanisms. Now, 2:24:21.120 --> 2:24:23.680 one thing that I do think is interesting is that 2:24:23.920 --> 2:24:27.080 these eos and the statement that came out on the 2:24:27.120 --> 2:24:31.880 twenty second and yesterday particularly identify certain modes of that 2:24:32.480 --> 2:24:36.560 kind of social conduct that you're talking about, like dotsing swatting, right, 2:24:36.640 --> 2:24:40.199 which is making a false report of like an ongoing 2:24:40.240 --> 2:24:43.119 violent crime so that a swat team shows up and 2:24:43.280 --> 2:24:44.560 raids somebody's. 2:24:44.120 --> 2:24:47.080 Home, which could be deadly right, This is. 2:24:47.600 --> 2:24:52.400 Very dangerous and interestingly to me anyway, there are these 2:24:52.440 --> 2:24:56.760 specific behaviors that are identified and condemned in those statements, 2:24:57.040 --> 2:25:00.760 and those specific behaviors are largely tool of the right. 2:25:01.120 --> 2:25:04.760 People on the left are not notably interested in sending 2:25:04.840 --> 2:25:07.760 law enforcement to someone's house. So there is a perverse 2:25:07.800 --> 2:25:10.039 way in which this may end up being sort of protective, 2:25:10.280 --> 2:25:13.080 I suppose, because I think it would be very difficult 2:25:13.280 --> 2:25:16.320 for the government to go after the people who are 2:25:16.360 --> 2:25:21.800 exposing ICE agents, which again is not illegal right now. 2:25:22.160 --> 2:25:25.440 Even if it were to become illegal, it isn't right now, 2:25:25.760 --> 2:25:27.200 and it would be very hard for them to go 2:25:27.280 --> 2:25:31.840 after those folks and not also go after the folks 2:25:31.879 --> 2:25:35.600 who are running that silly website about people who say 2:25:35.640 --> 2:25:37.240 something mean about Charlie Kirk. 2:25:37.440 --> 2:25:39.040 Yeah, I mean, I guess to me, And this is 2:25:39.080 --> 2:25:42.520 the speculation outside of like legal advice or any not 2:25:42.600 --> 2:25:45.039 that we're giving legal advice, but outside of like the legal. 2:25:44.800 --> 2:25:47.200 Framework, definitely not giving legal advice. 2:25:47.400 --> 2:25:48.800 I mean it kind of points to a thing that 2:25:48.879 --> 2:25:54.160 already this hypocrisy or this difference between what it's called 2:25:54.200 --> 2:25:56.959 when one party does it versus what it's called when 2:25:56.959 --> 2:25:58.920 another party does it, like outside of the fact that 2:25:58.959 --> 2:26:00.280 the government gets to do what it was wants to 2:26:00.400 --> 2:26:03.200 until the government stops itself from doing a thing. I mean, 2:26:03.240 --> 2:26:05.200 it feels like it's a part of the creation of 2:26:05.240 --> 2:26:09.720 a differentiated subjectivity. Like there's the subject of the state 2:26:09.920 --> 2:26:16.440 that falls under the values that are being attacked Christianity, whiteness, heteronormativity, 2:26:17.320 --> 2:26:22.080 these like patriotism in these certain ways versus the people 2:26:22.120 --> 2:26:27.440 that are doing these same things but are corrupt, are dirty, 2:26:27.840 --> 2:26:33.400 are outside our internal enemies, are Soros funded. However we 2:26:33.520 --> 2:26:37.480 want to like that. But yeah, I guess that's not 2:26:37.520 --> 2:26:39.680 I mean, that's this is nothing new. It's just an 2:26:39.680 --> 2:26:41.560 amplification of that same right. 2:26:41.720 --> 2:26:46.400 Yeah, very much. And you know what is changing a 2:26:46.560 --> 2:26:49.560 little bit, although all of these threads have been present, 2:26:50.040 --> 2:26:53.560 is that this administration is rationalizing this particular kind of 2:26:53.600 --> 2:26:58.800 targeting with respect to in particular Palestine, solidarity movements, gender 2:26:58.840 --> 2:27:01.680 and unconforming people, and what they're calling anti buzz. So, 2:27:01.879 --> 2:27:05.760 you know, we're seeing we've been seeing congressional investigations, the 2:27:05.840 --> 2:27:10.200 allocation of funds to federal law enforcement, purging not just individuals, 2:27:10.280 --> 2:27:15.200 but whole agencies that the administration feels are insufficiently aligned 2:27:15.200 --> 2:27:18.440 with its priority replacing federal law enforcement that and I 2:27:18.520 --> 2:27:22.080 mean ranging from FBI agents on the ground to doj 2:27:22.920 --> 2:27:30.640 with people who will enthusiastically and blindly pursue these priorities, 2:27:31.080 --> 2:27:34.160 and using a lot of resources to target the nonprofit 2:27:34.280 --> 2:27:38.920 text status and funding of groups identified as being aligned 2:27:38.920 --> 2:27:42.600 with any of the disfavored movements. And one of the 2:27:42.640 --> 2:27:46.640 things that they're doing is kind of it's this real spaghetti, 2:27:46.959 --> 2:27:51.000 you know, throwing everything at it, and it's very overwhelming. 2:27:51.400 --> 2:27:56.120 It's overwhelming for movement infrastructure, it's overwhelming for legal for 2:27:56.600 --> 2:27:59.840 people on the ground, and it's all happening at once, 2:28:00.360 --> 2:28:03.680 and I think it's all being it's mutually compounding, it's 2:28:03.760 --> 2:28:08.520 mutually reinforcing, it's demoralizing, and in particular, the stuff that's 2:28:08.520 --> 2:28:14.240 happening with immigration is so devastating, and because immigration is 2:28:14.320 --> 2:28:18.320 so wholly under the control of the executive. That is 2:28:18.360 --> 2:28:21.560 an area where he's able to sort of make a 2:28:21.680 --> 2:28:24.760 policy and make it so and have it be carried 2:28:24.800 --> 2:28:28.199 out by FIAT. And he has made his own private 2:28:28.800 --> 2:28:33.680 army with ice. And I think one of the effects 2:28:33.720 --> 2:28:37.240 that I in just in my observation, that that has 2:28:37.320 --> 2:28:41.760 had is that people see that happening and assume that 2:28:41.800 --> 2:28:45.360 he has that level of control over everything else. And 2:28:45.440 --> 2:28:49.000 I do want to point out, like, again, it's absolutely 2:28:49.560 --> 2:28:53.800 devastating to see what's happening in the immigration space, but 2:28:54.320 --> 2:28:59.080 in fact he does not have that level of control 2:28:59.400 --> 2:29:04.040 over the ret of government and over non immigration laws, 2:29:04.360 --> 2:29:06.320 and I think that's really important to remember. 2:29:06.840 --> 2:29:10.360 Yeah, it seems about pushing boundaries and experimenting. There's a 2:29:10.360 --> 2:29:11.840 lot of people that have talked and not to get 2:29:11.879 --> 2:29:14.080 too far down the road with this, but like with 2:29:14.320 --> 2:29:19.320 the like attempt to normalize sending national guard or sending 2:29:19.400 --> 2:29:24.760 active military to different states, or federalizing national guards to 2:29:24.800 --> 2:29:28.440 be present from different states in these places, almost like 2:29:28.520 --> 2:29:33.520 if it's constant and like overlapping enough, then eventually just 2:29:33.720 --> 2:29:37.080 military being on the streets generally rousing houseless folks is 2:29:37.120 --> 2:29:38.920 going to be a normalized thing. 2:29:39.920 --> 2:29:42.520 Man, I'm in New York. There's military people in all 2:29:43.120 --> 2:29:47.199 price like that got very normalized post nine to eleven 2:29:47.360 --> 2:29:50.880 in certain places. And so you know, again this is 2:29:50.879 --> 2:29:53.879 not to say that it's okay, but it isn't new. 2:29:54.400 --> 2:30:01.040 So to get back to antifa, Sure, Antifa, Antifa. How 2:30:01.120 --> 2:30:05.879 is the administration identifying Antifa and the left and what 2:30:06.320 --> 2:30:09.960 are they actually dismantling and attacking. I'm thinking like he 2:30:10.120 --> 2:30:15.080 loves talking about bilfunds or like lgbt QIA, youth advocacy organizations, 2:30:16.080 --> 2:30:18.840 secularist groups, like yeah, what's going on? 2:30:19.040 --> 2:30:21.840 Yeah, well this is this is where things get really fun. 2:30:22.280 --> 2:30:24.640 Most of the groups that are actually being targeted are 2:30:24.640 --> 2:30:31.040 not remotely related to antifa. George Soros is not antifa, 2:30:31.600 --> 2:30:35.840 the various legal defense funds are not Antifa. Antifa is 2:30:35.879 --> 2:30:38.920 the rationale, but not the reality. So one of the 2:30:39.200 --> 2:30:41.680 interesting issues here is that a significant group of the 2:30:41.720 --> 2:30:44.080 people who really need to be very worried are people 2:30:44.120 --> 2:30:48.160 who work in the nonprofit sector, in extremely normal and 2:30:48.280 --> 2:30:52.920 liberal community advocacy organizations and NGOs. And these are people 2:30:53.240 --> 2:30:57.119 who have nothing whatsoever to do with Antifa by any 2:30:57.200 --> 2:31:01.560 stretch of the imagination, who are being attacked, whose funding 2:31:01.640 --> 2:31:05.080 is being attacked who are primarily I would say at risk, 2:31:05.440 --> 2:31:11.360 not because they have engaged in anything approaching unlawful conduct, 2:31:11.640 --> 2:31:13.840 and frankly, I think the biggest risk for many of 2:31:13.840 --> 2:31:18.800 those people is the anticipatory compliance of their funders. We 2:31:19.160 --> 2:31:22.520 have seen a really similar thing happen with universities, where 2:31:22.640 --> 2:31:25.680 universities have been targeted by the state, by the federal 2:31:25.760 --> 2:31:30.199 government and have been accused in particular of anti Semitism, 2:31:30.720 --> 2:31:33.360 and frankly, I think it would be the work of 2:31:33.400 --> 2:31:38.320 an afternoon for general counsel at any of these universities 2:31:38.560 --> 2:31:42.920 to point out that, in fact, there is a legally 2:31:43.040 --> 2:31:49.680 established difference between anti Semitism and anti Zionism, that criticism 2:31:50.200 --> 2:31:55.120 of the nation state of Israel is in fact entirely 2:31:55.200 --> 2:32:00.000 legally distinct from criticism of or threats against Jewish people. 2:32:00.680 --> 2:32:06.360 And if any of these universities actually bothered to challenge 2:32:07.040 --> 2:32:11.959 these allegations, I think that they would win in court 2:32:12.280 --> 2:32:12.960 on the law. 2:32:13.400 --> 2:32:14.199 And what we're. 2:32:14.000 --> 2:32:20.640 Seeing instead is the universities declining to challenge these allegations, 2:32:21.480 --> 2:32:25.240 settling out of court, paying large amounts of money to 2:32:25.320 --> 2:32:31.160 the allegedly aggrieved parties, and capitulating in ways that are 2:32:31.520 --> 2:32:40.240 unnecessary unwarranted, not legally justified, irrational, and seed more ground, 2:32:40.760 --> 2:32:44.560 not just more ground than is legally called for, but 2:32:44.640 --> 2:32:49.160 more ground than is even being asked for in these cases. 2:32:49.680 --> 2:32:52.520 And so you know, this is to me one of 2:32:52.600 --> 2:32:56.280 the great dangers of normalizing these discourses is that these 2:32:56.360 --> 2:33:01.160 large institutions are engaged in acts of self preservation that 2:33:01.240 --> 2:33:07.000 actually undermine civil society, when even a small amount of 2:33:07.080 --> 2:33:10.480 courage would go a very long way to preserving it. 2:33:10.920 --> 2:33:12.879 I think we also sort of saw this in the 2:33:12.920 --> 2:33:16.000 early days of the administration with legal firms that had 2:33:16.000 --> 2:33:19.280 brought challenges to the administration in the past backing down 2:33:19.840 --> 2:33:24.519 or refusing to offering their fealty or whatever to the administration. 2:33:25.040 --> 2:33:27.200 And we're seeing it now also with some of these 2:33:27.280 --> 2:33:32.119 large media corporations silencing some of their pundits or whatever, 2:33:32.480 --> 2:33:34.560 or in some cases, I mean it's clearly quid pro 2:33:34.680 --> 2:33:39.440 quo because they've got, you know, a merger that's being 2:33:39.440 --> 2:33:42.199 discussed by the FCC at the moment. 2:33:42.520 --> 2:33:45.160 Well, what we've seen, though, we have seen a lot 2:33:45.160 --> 2:33:49.200 of that sort of craven capitulation. But what we've also 2:33:49.240 --> 2:33:52.480 seen is when we fight, we win. Now, I'm not 2:33:52.560 --> 2:33:55.360 trying to be a Pollyanna about this. What I'm trying 2:33:55.400 --> 2:33:57.520 to say is the demands that are being made by 2:33:57.640 --> 2:34:01.800 this particular administration are actually so far beyond the pale 2:34:02.280 --> 2:34:05.160 that based on our legal regime as it currently is, 2:34:05.440 --> 2:34:08.080 when we fight, we win, and so I think it 2:34:08.160 --> 2:34:14.720 is very worth reminding people that, however imperfect the law is, 2:34:15.320 --> 2:34:19.000 the current state of the law forbids much of what 2:34:19.120 --> 2:34:23.359 this administration is doing, and it is actually worth standing 2:34:23.440 --> 2:34:26.680 up to it. There are other groups of people similarly 2:34:26.800 --> 2:34:29.880 who are not related to Antifa, and one of those 2:34:29.920 --> 2:34:35.080 groups is toasters, like including boomers, who are on Facebook 2:34:35.080 --> 2:34:38.439 and Twitter making jokes about how the right it's so hypocritical, 2:34:38.640 --> 2:34:42.039 and those people are getting targeted, and I would just 2:34:42.280 --> 2:34:45.440 gently remind everyone that the First Amendment does still exist 2:34:45.879 --> 2:34:48.879 and that the solution to repression is not self censorship 2:34:49.000 --> 2:34:53.280 but courage. And also, as I have said many times, 2:34:53.320 --> 2:34:57.280 including to you on this program, discretion is the better 2:34:57.280 --> 2:34:59.440 part of valor, and not everything needs to be said 2:34:59.480 --> 2:35:02.360 on the internet, so maybe think about it before you 2:35:02.440 --> 2:35:04.600 post something that you would not like to hear read 2:35:04.640 --> 2:35:07.480 back to you by a humorless prosecutor. Then we have 2:35:07.600 --> 2:35:10.240 these other groups that are engaged in exposing law enforcement, 2:35:10.280 --> 2:35:12.640 which I referred to a minute ago. And I think 2:35:12.840 --> 2:35:18.080 the groups that are exposing ICE are definitely going to 2:35:18.120 --> 2:35:20.959 be targeted have already been targeted for that activity, but 2:35:21.560 --> 2:35:24.920 it sort of remains to be seen how that can 2:35:25.080 --> 2:35:30.000 happen while also protecting Canary mission. Right then, we have 2:35:30.120 --> 2:35:34.080 groups that are being perceived as or identified as Antifa, 2:35:34.160 --> 2:35:36.400 who are the people who are like doing food not 2:35:36.520 --> 2:35:40.480 bombs and community gardening and cooperative bookstores and prisoner letter writing, 2:35:40.720 --> 2:35:44.800 all of which are extremely First Amendment protected activities and 2:35:44.920 --> 2:35:48.439 all of which are not only likely to be highly surveiled, 2:35:48.600 --> 2:35:51.360 are already highly surveiled. And this is the group of 2:35:51.400 --> 2:35:53.720 people who I think are actually probably most used to 2:35:53.760 --> 2:35:56.320 this and best prepared for it, and also might be 2:35:56.440 --> 2:36:00.640 really hard to prosecute effectively because they're not doing crimes. 2:36:01.440 --> 2:36:05.199 And you know, like the NGOs that we were talking about, 2:36:05.240 --> 2:36:07.640 the biggest point of exposure for all of these groups 2:36:07.720 --> 2:36:10.600 is likely to be financial. We can certainly anticipate that 2:36:10.640 --> 2:36:13.240 the state is highly interested in looking at all of 2:36:13.280 --> 2:36:17.400 our bank records, to the extent that our bank records exist. 2:36:17.879 --> 2:36:18.360 With all the. 2:36:18.360 --> 2:36:22.240 Money we have, right like, we're all handing around the 2:36:22.280 --> 2:36:28.959 same staff of twenty singles to each other. But hey, 2:36:29.160 --> 2:36:32.760 you know wirefraud. What I can say is that you know, 2:36:32.879 --> 2:36:36.000 something like a bail fund, and you know, community support 2:36:36.040 --> 2:36:39.240 funds do need to be very cautious. That has already 2:36:39.520 --> 2:36:42.720 always been the case, And this is a really good 2:36:42.800 --> 2:36:46.000 time to hire a CPA to go over your books 2:36:46.000 --> 2:36:49.080 and to make sure that you have kept really meticulous records, 2:36:49.120 --> 2:36:52.640 to make sure that if you have raised money for something, 2:36:52.959 --> 2:36:55.640 you have only used it for the thing that you 2:36:55.720 --> 2:36:58.200 said it was going to be used for. And this 2:36:58.280 --> 2:37:03.280 is once again something that largely is a feature of 2:37:03.600 --> 2:37:05.160 far right organizing. 2:37:05.280 --> 2:37:05.440 Right. 2:37:05.440 --> 2:37:08.240 I don't know if you remember, but Steve Bannon was 2:37:08.600 --> 2:37:12.160 actually prosecuted for wire fraud because he was raising money 2:37:12.200 --> 2:37:13.359 to do something. 2:37:13.120 --> 2:37:13.680 Build the wall. 2:37:13.720 --> 2:37:14.480 Build the wall. 2:37:16.280 --> 2:37:18.640 He was raising money to build the wall, but not 2:37:18.760 --> 2:37:20.879 using it for that purpose, which is wire fraud. 2:37:20.959 --> 2:37:21.119 Right. 2:37:21.160 --> 2:37:24.080 So if you run a bail fund, presumably you already 2:37:24.160 --> 2:37:27.720 know that you have to be very careful about how 2:37:27.760 --> 2:37:30.200 you raise that money and how you monitor and track 2:37:30.240 --> 2:37:32.480 and use that money. So most of the people, I 2:37:32.480 --> 2:37:35.039 would say, the overwhelming majority of people who are sort 2:37:35.080 --> 2:37:37.199 of going to be subject to this kind of monitoring 2:37:37.320 --> 2:37:40.640 A have already been subject to it, and b haven't 2:37:40.680 --> 2:37:44.200 actually done anything unlawful. And you know that doesn't mean 2:37:44.240 --> 2:37:47.240 this won't be disrupted. It just means, Look, I'm not 2:37:47.320 --> 2:37:49.600 naive enough to say that your innocence will protect you, 2:37:49.959 --> 2:37:52.280 but it's a good start. And then we have folks 2:37:52.280 --> 2:37:56.600 who maybe actually do engage in unlawful conduct or revolutionary action, 2:37:57.040 --> 2:38:01.760 or people about whom that claim could somewhat credibly be made. 2:38:01.800 --> 2:38:04.920 And that's actually just a different a different group, right, 2:38:05.080 --> 2:38:08.360 And those things were illegal last week and they're illegal now, 2:38:08.440 --> 2:38:11.640 and they're not more illegal because they're politically motivated. Right, 2:38:11.680 --> 2:38:15.280 Although you know there are terrorism enhancements and sentencing enhancements 2:38:15.360 --> 2:38:18.160 and things like that. The fact is, like, you know, 2:38:18.200 --> 2:38:21.960 it can't be more illegal to spray paint Free Gaza 2:38:22.400 --> 2:38:24.800 on the side of a building than it is to 2:38:24.959 --> 2:38:27.720 spray paint I Love Trump on the side of a building. Right. 2:38:28.280 --> 2:38:30.680 I mean, what whether or not this like pans out 2:38:30.680 --> 2:38:32.720 in the courts, right is one thing. But I know 2:38:32.760 --> 2:38:35.200 that like, say, for the library case that happened here 2:38:35.240 --> 2:38:38.800 where people were arrested because some people were filming in 2:38:39.400 --> 2:38:45.640 this like Palestine related workshop in a public library and 2:38:46.120 --> 2:38:49.160 they were asked to stop filming, and then a scuffle 2:38:49.200 --> 2:38:51.080 broke out and a phone got knocked to the ground 2:38:51.080 --> 2:38:54.480 and people got apparently dragged outside. Again, I was not 2:38:54.560 --> 2:38:57.879 there for this, but like now the people are facing 2:38:58.040 --> 2:38:59.480 like people who were in the crowd, who are not 2:38:59.560 --> 2:39:02.480 the people who were filming or facing charges of ethnic intimidation. 2:39:03.160 --> 2:39:05.440 That's a very specific case in a different jurisdiction from 2:39:05.440 --> 2:39:09.720 where you are practicing law. But it's not just about 2:39:09.760 --> 2:39:13.000 like what's being charged against them isn't about assaults per se. 2:39:13.160 --> 2:39:19.119 It's this enhanced politically driven statement based on the rhetoric 2:39:19.200 --> 2:39:21.080 that's you know, based on the politics. 2:39:21.120 --> 2:39:21.280 Right. 2:39:21.600 --> 2:39:24.520 Absolutely, And I'm glad you pointed that out, because I 2:39:24.600 --> 2:39:28.800 certainly do not want to suggest that politically motivated prosecutions 2:39:29.560 --> 2:39:36.520 don't happen. They absolutely happen. These reset statements don't change 2:39:36.720 --> 2:39:39.800 the way in which they happen, right, And there are 2:39:39.920 --> 2:39:44.880 ways of targeting people for prosecution based on their politics, 2:39:45.280 --> 2:39:49.680 and those have those are again not new. I think 2:39:49.480 --> 2:39:52.560 the point that I'm trying to make is that I 2:39:52.640 --> 2:39:57.560 don't think this has changed substantively. Yeah, like the fact 2:39:57.560 --> 2:40:02.560 that the President said at a domestic terrorist organization just 2:40:02.640 --> 2:40:06.560 doesn't really change the legal landscape. This has been the 2:40:06.640 --> 2:40:10.200 targeted surveillance of the left, whether you call it anti FA, 2:40:10.320 --> 2:40:13.360 whether it's the Green Scare, whether it's the Black Liberation Army. 2:40:13.840 --> 2:40:17.640 This has been a priority for decades of administrations. More 2:40:17.680 --> 2:40:21.320 and more legislation has been developed to criminalize garden variety 2:40:21.360 --> 2:40:24.520 protest conduct. We saw that a lot around Standing Rock 2:40:24.600 --> 2:40:28.760 and BLM. More and more resources are allocated to testing 2:40:28.879 --> 2:40:34.160 creative strategies for monitoring and criminalizing political activities. You know, again, 2:40:34.240 --> 2:40:36.320 state repression and the tools that are used in the 2:40:36.320 --> 2:40:39.560 service of state repression are just not new. And the 2:40:39.600 --> 2:40:42.760 fact that you put out these statements is maybe a 2:40:42.800 --> 2:40:47.240 good reminder that we should be circumspect and aware of 2:40:47.480 --> 2:40:49.640 repression and prepared to bear up under it. 2:41:00.640 --> 2:41:04.240 So is the RICO sixty one Atlanta case a model 2:41:04.360 --> 2:41:06.640 for what we see moving forward at a federal level 2:41:07.000 --> 2:41:12.040 in relation to these domestic terrorism charges, conspiracy, racketeering, the 2:41:12.160 --> 2:41:15.800 focus on bail funds, and other abolitionist infrastructure, civil liberties 2:41:15.879 --> 2:41:20.800 organizations like Section H of that September twenty fifth statement 2:41:21.280 --> 2:41:25.600 refers to the Attorney General pursuing quote, politically motivated terrorist 2:41:25.640 --> 2:41:31.039 acts such as organizing docs and campaigns, swatting, rioting, looting, trespass, assault, 2:41:31.200 --> 2:41:35.560 destruction of property, threats of violence, and civil disorder. Like, 2:41:35.600 --> 2:41:37.400 I know those are all things that you know, they've 2:41:37.440 --> 2:41:40.760 already got charges attached to them. It's just these are 2:41:40.760 --> 2:41:44.320 now being framed within the framework of being terrorist acts. 2:41:44.879 --> 2:41:48.320 But you know, you said, like these practices of attacking 2:41:48.320 --> 2:41:53.959 adjacent like supportive movement and civil society organs is. It's 2:41:54.000 --> 2:41:56.320 not in and of itself new, but it seems like 2:41:56.360 --> 2:41:59.920 the framing, especially with the Atlanta case where the process 2:42:00.080 --> 2:42:02.440 Cuters brought up at the beginning Eric like they gave 2:42:02.440 --> 2:42:06.760 a Merriam Webster Dictionary definition of anarchism and then said, 2:42:06.760 --> 2:42:08.879 all these people fall under this umbrella because they all 2:42:08.879 --> 2:42:12.840 have this ideology, therefore they are a conspiracy. Is that 2:42:12.959 --> 2:42:15.520 what the administration is trying to do? And is that 2:42:15.640 --> 2:42:18.520 different from what they've already done at a federal level. 2:42:19.000 --> 2:42:21.520 So, first of all, I do think that that's very 2:42:21.640 --> 2:42:24.440 likely that they will try. I think this is signaling 2:42:25.160 --> 2:42:28.280 a real interest in that. I don't think that's particularly new, 2:42:28.320 --> 2:42:31.920 but I think that it's clearly being prioritized. So let's 2:42:31.920 --> 2:42:37.840 talk about Rico Rigo. Let's talk about Rigo Briefly, RICO 2:42:38.040 --> 2:42:42.720 is the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, and it 2:42:42.800 --> 2:42:45.960 was enacted in I think nineteen seventy to go after 2:42:46.000 --> 2:42:49.480 the mob. Right, it was to go after crime families. 2:42:49.879 --> 2:42:53.600 But it's been used against so called gangs and other 2:42:53.800 --> 2:42:57.400 politically motivated prosecutions for a long time, and so RICO 2:42:57.440 --> 2:43:01.039 has really used to kind of criminalize whole communities. But 2:43:01.120 --> 2:43:06.560 it requires that an actual crime has happened. Right, Association 2:43:07.240 --> 2:43:11.240 or ideology in itself is not sufficient, So it requires 2:43:11.280 --> 2:43:14.360 an actual crime has happened. And it also requires an 2:43:14.720 --> 2:43:19.720 quote an enterprise, like a coordinated enterprise. And because the 2:43:19.720 --> 2:43:24.400 First Amendment protects association and a large diffuse group of 2:43:24.440 --> 2:43:29.199 people sharing values is not an enterprise. You know, I'm 2:43:29.200 --> 2:43:32.720 not sure. It's not a straightforward path to say we 2:43:32.840 --> 2:43:35.840 want to use REGO in a politically motiv motivated way 2:43:36.240 --> 2:43:40.080 and to actually be able to capture this group under 2:43:40.080 --> 2:43:43.760 a net. Right. That's like, you know, saying we want 2:43:43.760 --> 2:43:46.840 to go after Antifa is like saying we want to 2:43:46.840 --> 2:43:51.240 go after people who like cats. Right, there are people 2:43:51.320 --> 2:43:55.680 who like cats, but they certainly aren't coordinating together. I 2:43:55.720 --> 2:43:59.199 suppose that there are actually people who would say, like, yes, 2:43:59.320 --> 2:44:03.360 I identify strongly with this set of values, but it's 2:44:03.360 --> 2:44:07.160 not a membership organization, and it would, I think, be 2:44:07.280 --> 2:44:11.480 very difficult to mount a prosecution, or to mount a 2:44:11.520 --> 2:44:15.720 successful prosecution on the basis of what are clearly First 2:44:15.760 --> 2:44:19.560 Amendment protected beliefs and associations. And there's pretty good law 2:44:19.560 --> 2:44:23.359 on this point, actually, and it comes from an effort 2:44:23.400 --> 2:44:28.480 to prosecute a bunch of anti abortion protesters under RICO 2:44:29.000 --> 2:44:31.160 and the court said you can't do that. The fact 2:44:31.160 --> 2:44:33.280 that there's a large group of people who happen to 2:44:33.280 --> 2:44:35.120 believe the same things does not mean that they are 2:44:35.560 --> 2:44:39.039 an enterprise. So look, don't get me wrong again, this 2:44:39.080 --> 2:44:42.800 would be hugely disruptive, but it would be very difficult 2:44:42.800 --> 2:44:46.000 to sustain an effective prosecution or obtain a conviction if 2:44:46.000 --> 2:44:50.320 there was one competent investigator, prosecutor judge or jury member 2:44:50.440 --> 2:44:55.600 anywhere along the way. But yes, hugely disruptive if they 2:44:55.680 --> 2:44:59.000 managed to do it. I would like to know something 2:44:59.040 --> 2:45:02.960 about the Stoff cups city Rico. That's important. So first 2:45:02.959 --> 2:45:07.640 of all, yay, all those all those charges, those Ricos 2:45:07.680 --> 2:45:11.600 were dismissed for legal reasons of being utter bolts. And 2:45:11.800 --> 2:45:15.120 I know that. You know, there's some concern that that 2:45:15.200 --> 2:45:18.960 will be appealed, but I think it is worth noting 2:45:18.959 --> 2:45:20.800 and celebrating that when we fight, we win. 2:45:21.240 --> 2:45:22.400 But sort of more to. 2:45:22.360 --> 2:45:24.920 The point in this context, I do want to note 2:45:25.000 --> 2:45:28.800 that Georgia's RICO statute is different from the federal RICO statute, 2:45:28.800 --> 2:45:32.119 and it's actually even worse than the federal RICO statute, 2:45:32.120 --> 2:45:35.160 and it still couldn't be effectively used in this way. 2:45:35.400 --> 2:45:39.280 And also federal RICO has often failed. Right, Efforts to 2:45:39.440 --> 2:45:43.360 use federal RICO in a politically motivated way have also failed. 2:45:43.400 --> 2:45:45.600 So if you look up like the Ohio seven, which 2:45:45.680 --> 2:45:48.359 was a fairly early effort to bring a politically motivated 2:45:48.400 --> 2:45:51.800 RICO that did not go great for the government. So yeah, 2:45:51.840 --> 2:45:53.920 I think that's important to note about RICO. 2:45:54.280 --> 2:45:59.200 So you mentioned this like FBI designation earlier, it had 2:45:59.280 --> 2:46:02.320 been for a while, I think under I thought this 2:46:02.400 --> 2:46:05.600 came up under Obama, but maybe it came up under 2:46:05.640 --> 2:46:09.439 Biden for the prosecution of January sixth, But anti government extremists, 2:46:09.520 --> 2:46:14.160 which included militia movements and also anarchists, it's been shifted 2:46:14.200 --> 2:46:17.640 to far left extremists. In the verbiage of the boj 2:46:17.879 --> 2:46:21.920 and who they're pursuing. Anti law enforcement and anti conservative 2:46:22.480 --> 2:46:26.840 attacks have been framed as you know of considered effort 2:46:27.000 --> 2:46:32.200 by far left extremists in the media and also like 2:46:32.320 --> 2:46:35.800 by these institutions as they're you know, moving forward before 2:46:35.840 --> 2:46:38.199 they actually make any arrests or whatever, and through their prosecution, 2:46:38.680 --> 2:46:41.640 sometimes using terms like you know, antifa or trantifa or 2:46:41.680 --> 2:46:45.480 whatever sort of motivations they're giving. I also wonder if 2:46:45.520 --> 2:46:48.680 you could say a thing specifically about this sort of 2:46:48.920 --> 2:46:53.200 framing that is being given again, that is, like, like 2:46:53.320 --> 2:46:57.680 I was thinking about this before more recent mass shooting 2:46:57.720 --> 2:47:02.320 events that have happened, or before the hullabaloo around Charlie 2:47:02.360 --> 2:47:06.720 Kirk's assassination and the shooter, the alleged shooter's relationships to 2:47:06.760 --> 2:47:10.000 other people, that there seems to be this considered effort 2:47:10.440 --> 2:47:16.440 around clinically framing and politically flaming, framing transness as a 2:47:16.480 --> 2:47:20.879 mental health issue but also as a political extension of 2:47:20.959 --> 2:47:25.560 woke gender ideology that's coming for your children. And it's like, 2:47:25.600 --> 2:47:28.720 it's it's interesting because like, in order for people in 2:47:28.760 --> 2:47:30.880 a lot of cases in the US to be able 2:47:30.879 --> 2:47:35.160 to gain access to medical care that they desire or 2:47:35.280 --> 2:47:40.160 need around maybe gender dysorio or some other experience. They 2:47:40.160 --> 2:47:43.760 often have to use these like clinical terms for what 2:47:43.800 --> 2:47:46.400 they are experiencing and why they need medication for it, 2:47:47.120 --> 2:47:50.360 and not faulting people for making that approach, because you 2:47:50.480 --> 2:47:51.640 need the medicine that you need. 2:47:52.040 --> 2:47:53.119 But now this is. 2:47:53.080 --> 2:47:58.280 Being turned around and reframed as therefore, if people need 2:47:58.280 --> 2:48:00.440 this stuff and they're making this argument, therefore they have 2:48:00.840 --> 2:48:03.920 some sort of mental deficiency or some sort of issue 2:48:04.440 --> 2:48:07.360 which is being used in order to challenge people's right 2:48:07.480 --> 2:48:10.640 to keep in bear arms under the Second Amendments, or 2:48:10.760 --> 2:48:13.440 saying that people are like because of their transnits being 2:48:13.480 --> 2:48:15.800 motivated towards this attacks like I don't know if you 2:48:15.800 --> 2:48:20.120 have anything to again, not exactly like not exactly a 2:48:20.200 --> 2:48:22.520 legal issue, but I don't know if you have any observations. 2:48:22.640 --> 2:48:25.800 Well, I mean, I guess when it comes down to it. 2:48:25.920 --> 2:48:28.560 Just to be very clear, the DSM makes it very 2:48:28.560 --> 2:48:33.280 clear that for that being trans is not a mental illness, 2:48:33.720 --> 2:48:41.560 that gender dysph you is distress caused by discrepancy between 2:48:42.040 --> 2:48:46.680 the assigned gender and your actual gender, which would exist 2:48:47.040 --> 2:48:51.840 if any CIS person were being treated as a gender 2:48:51.879 --> 2:48:54.640 that they didn't identify with right, that would be a 2:48:54.640 --> 2:48:57.840 distress that would arise for any person. I think that 2:48:57.840 --> 2:49:00.720 there are real problems with the sort of clinicsization or 2:49:00.760 --> 2:49:05.840 medicalization of gender affirming care. But I do want to 2:49:05.879 --> 2:49:09.640 be very clear that that does not have to and 2:49:09.760 --> 2:49:16.440 does not formally or officially include pathologizing trans identity. That's 2:49:16.440 --> 2:49:20.080 something that's being imputed and being imposed, but it has 2:49:20.120 --> 2:49:25.600 no basis in clinical practice. Not that that necessarily matters 2:49:25.640 --> 2:49:28.360 to the government, but I do think it's important to 2:49:28.400 --> 2:49:32.160 point that out. I think, given that previous efforts to 2:49:32.440 --> 2:49:36.880 restrict gun ownership on the basis of previously diagnosed mental 2:49:36.920 --> 2:49:40.760 illness have not been super successful, I don't know that 2:49:40.840 --> 2:49:43.520 this one will be either. But again, this is an 2:49:43.520 --> 2:49:47.040 issue of power and less an issue of law or 2:49:47.520 --> 2:49:50.640 logical coherent legal philosophy. 2:49:51.080 --> 2:49:53.360 So this term has been coming up a lot of 2:49:54.120 --> 2:49:58.599 you know, with Trump or the administration talking about domestic terrorists, 2:49:58.959 --> 2:50:00.760 there's been a lot of pushback back from the legal 2:50:00.760 --> 2:50:05.039 community or from civil libertarians saying, what the hell are 2:50:05.040 --> 2:50:07.480 you talking about? Can you talk about, like what it 2:50:07.520 --> 2:50:12.000 means to be called domestic terrorists? What changes that makes 2:50:12.040 --> 2:50:13.800 in like how the law approaches he or how you 2:50:13.800 --> 2:50:14.920 can be convicted. 2:50:14.800 --> 2:50:18.640 Yeah, gladly. So at this point, what it means to 2:50:18.680 --> 2:50:22.160 be called a domestic terrorist is actually nothing. There is 2:50:22.280 --> 2:50:27.920 no legal procedure for designating a domestic terrorist group or 2:50:27.920 --> 2:50:32.640 for designating a domestic group a terrorist organization. And given 2:50:32.680 --> 2:50:35.600 the current law on the matter, even with this Supreme Court, 2:50:35.640 --> 2:50:38.720 I think it would be very, very difficult to change 2:50:38.760 --> 2:50:40.400 the law in the way it would have to be 2:50:40.480 --> 2:50:44.959 changed in order to make that designation. There are ways 2:50:45.280 --> 2:50:50.039 to freeze the assets of a domestic group. There are 2:50:50.160 --> 2:50:55.600 ways to posit or show a connection between a domestic 2:50:55.640 --> 2:50:59.720 group and a designated foreign terrorist organization, which is a 2:50:59.760 --> 2:51:03.280 real thing that has legal effect. There is a way 2:51:03.600 --> 2:51:09.760 to financially designate a group or an individual, as you know, 2:51:10.280 --> 2:51:14.359 having this kind of relationship to a foreign terrorist organization 2:51:14.480 --> 2:51:15.199 or an FTO. 2:51:15.720 --> 2:51:18.879 So, but there's no legal. 2:51:18.560 --> 2:51:23.640 Mechanism for designating a domestic terrorist group. That's not a thing. 2:51:24.080 --> 2:51:26.360 So this is a place where the government could simply 2:51:26.400 --> 2:51:29.040 dispense with the law. But I do not think this 2:51:29.120 --> 2:51:31.720 is a place where the government can use the law 2:51:32.440 --> 2:51:38.200 to create a category of domestic terrorist organizations. And just 2:51:38.240 --> 2:51:42.240 to like explain FTOS a little bit, there is a 2:51:42.400 --> 2:51:47.800 category of organization that are designated by the State Department 2:51:48.520 --> 2:51:52.840 as quote, foreign terrorist organizations ftos are designated by the 2:51:52.879 --> 2:51:56.720 State Department, and they are listed on the State Department website. Right, 2:51:56.840 --> 2:51:58.760 it's not a secret who they are. You're not going 2:51:58.840 --> 2:52:01.120 to suddenly find out that, you know, you gain money 2:52:01.120 --> 2:52:05.720 that to I don't know the Greek equivalent of the ACLU, 2:52:05.800 --> 2:52:08.320 and now it's you know, it turns out it's an FTO. 2:52:08.959 --> 2:52:13.800 There are certainly cases where the government has successfully claimed 2:52:14.600 --> 2:52:20.720 that a connection between a domestic group and an FDO exists, 2:52:21.320 --> 2:52:24.640 even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. 2:52:24.879 --> 2:52:27.879 And if you have a connection to an FDO, you 2:52:28.000 --> 2:52:32.160 can be prosecuted for what's called material support for terrorism. 2:52:32.640 --> 2:52:35.640 And it's a very serious charge. It's a very frightening charge, 2:52:35.959 --> 2:52:38.760 and it does criminalize a lot of things that most 2:52:38.840 --> 2:52:43.480 people understand to be protected by the First Amendment right. 2:52:43.959 --> 2:52:49.240 It criminalizes providing things like medical care to certain groups. 2:52:49.280 --> 2:52:53.199 It criminalizes providing education or legal support to certain groups 2:52:53.200 --> 2:52:58.520 that are designated foreign terrorist organizations. And frankly, this is 2:52:58.680 --> 2:53:02.920 the idea that on pens material support for terrorism charges 2:53:03.000 --> 2:53:05.800 is offensive to many people because it does feel very 2:53:05.879 --> 2:53:11.200 much incompatible with constitutional norms under the First Amendment. It's 2:53:11.240 --> 2:53:13.920 an important thing to be aware of, but it would 2:53:13.959 --> 2:53:16.520 be very surprising to me if the government were able 2:53:16.560 --> 2:53:23.240 to successfully make broad claims connecting quote Antifa to foreign 2:53:23.360 --> 2:53:24.560 terrorist organizations. 2:53:25.480 --> 2:53:27.120 I was when you were saying that that had me 2:53:27.800 --> 2:53:30.240 thinking a little bit about the Holy Land five case. 2:53:30.280 --> 2:53:33.800 I was trying to remember that example. I guess like 2:53:34.440 --> 2:53:37.400 to be labor this. Can we talk about the distinction 2:53:37.800 --> 2:53:42.520 between domestic terrorist organization, which is a classification that doesn't exist, 2:53:43.080 --> 2:53:47.720 versus the charge of committing terrorism because people who get 2:53:47.840 --> 2:53:53.320 terrorism enhancements at least like the Marus Mason one example 2:53:53.360 --> 2:53:55.360 that comes to my mind, right, who is a member 2:53:55.400 --> 2:53:58.760 of cell that was associated with the Earth Liberation Front, 2:53:59.120 --> 2:54:02.800 like so that that person got over two decades in 2:54:02.840 --> 2:54:06.800 prison based on being convicted of crimes that existed and 2:54:06.840 --> 2:54:11.480 then getting enhancements based on the definition that those were terrorists, 2:54:12.080 --> 2:54:13.400 amplifying the amount of time. 2:54:13.480 --> 2:54:13.680 Right. 2:54:14.120 --> 2:54:19.280 The difference is the difference between criminalizing conduct or defining 2:54:19.440 --> 2:54:25.440 conduct as being terroristic, and criminalizing a group. The First 2:54:25.440 --> 2:54:32.320 Amendment protects freedom of belief, association, and expression, and that 2:54:32.440 --> 2:54:38.720 means that however much we might be targeted for our beliefs, associations, 2:54:38.760 --> 2:54:44.480 and expression. We cannot be prosecuted criminally for anything besides 2:54:44.640 --> 2:54:49.800 our conduct, our actions, And so there can be terrorist 2:54:49.959 --> 2:54:56.880 offenses and enhancements for sentencing on the basis of conduct 2:54:57.000 --> 2:54:59.880 that you are convicted of. If you engage in se 2:55:00.360 --> 2:55:04.400 illegal acts and a judge determines that those acts were 2:55:04.480 --> 2:55:10.680 motivated by desire to do terrorism, that the penalty for 2:55:10.840 --> 2:55:15.359 engaging in those acts can be enhanced. But you cannot 2:55:15.600 --> 2:55:21.320 designate a group, a belief, or an expression as being 2:55:21.560 --> 2:55:26.560 a crime in itself unless there is conduct associated with it. 2:55:26.680 --> 2:55:31.320 Because we don't criminalize people's identities. I mean, we do 2:55:31.360 --> 2:55:36.280 criminalize people's identities, but it's we don't say the impermissible 2:55:36.480 --> 2:55:39.840 to prosecute people for having those identities. 2:55:40.959 --> 2:55:43.520 I guess I have note as I understand the terrorism 2:55:43.640 --> 2:55:47.200 enhancements that the prosecutors are pursuing in the Luis gim 2:55:47.200 --> 2:55:51.360 Angioni case have been dropped. Is a thing that I heard, yes, 2:55:52.320 --> 2:55:55.400 which I mean at the same time, this is referenced 2:55:55.440 --> 2:55:57.480 in one of those documents that came from the White 2:55:57.480 --> 2:55:59.240 House as being a terroristic act. 2:55:59.440 --> 2:56:00.840 So yes, what are. 2:56:00.760 --> 2:56:01.280 The courts know? 2:56:01.760 --> 2:56:04.800 Okay, thank you? For making that distinction more clear. 2:56:05.080 --> 2:56:08.320 All right, So, how might those of us on the 2:56:08.440 --> 2:56:12.280 left or in justice movements, as you stated it, conceive 2:56:12.560 --> 2:56:15.520 of the state's view of us. How do we rally 2:56:15.560 --> 2:56:19.200 support for our identities and positions? What are some good 2:56:19.360 --> 2:56:24.840 practices understanding, like, having had this conversation, the terrain on 2:56:24.879 --> 2:56:26.320 which we're operating. 2:56:26.280 --> 2:56:29.120 Absolutely so, I guess what I would say about best 2:56:29.160 --> 2:56:33.440 practices is understand whether you are at risk, even if 2:56:33.480 --> 2:56:38.200 you're somebody who has not traditionally been at risk, even 2:56:38.240 --> 2:56:41.800 if you're someone who has lived your whole life believing 2:56:41.840 --> 2:56:45.480 that the system works and that this particular administration is 2:56:45.560 --> 2:56:49.480 like an aberration. I would say, Look, this administration is 2:56:49.520 --> 2:56:54.039 preoccupied with the funding streams for very mainstream liberal causes, 2:56:54.080 --> 2:56:56.320 and the fact that it's sort of lumping everything under 2:56:56.320 --> 2:56:59.560 the banner of antifa, you know, is probably a big 2:56:59.600 --> 2:57:02.680 surprise for some of these groups, like you know, suburban 2:57:02.720 --> 2:57:06.360 white moms against guns or whatever. But they are very 2:57:06.400 --> 2:57:10.000 focused on things like wirefraud and money laundering and stripping 2:57:10.040 --> 2:57:14.680 nonprofits of their tax status. If there's even a whisper 2:57:14.840 --> 2:57:19.320 of the possibility that those nonprofits are pursuing goals that 2:57:19.360 --> 2:57:23.240 are in any way antagonistic to state interests. So if 2:57:23.320 --> 2:57:25.880 you are in a group that has a bank account 2:57:26.160 --> 2:57:30.000 or raises money, the best practices here haven't changed. Keep 2:57:30.440 --> 2:57:34.120 very precise track of your funds. If you raise money, 2:57:34.400 --> 2:57:35.760 use it for that theyk you said you were going 2:57:35.840 --> 2:57:38.600 to use it for. Have an accountant, you know, be 2:57:38.800 --> 2:57:42.560 very very careful about your money. And again the best 2:57:42.560 --> 2:57:45.520 practices for the rest of us also haven't changed. This 2:57:45.680 --> 2:57:49.080 is political discourse that reaffirms what we already know about 2:57:49.120 --> 2:57:53.959 targeted surveillance, and we have for a long time known 2:57:54.000 --> 2:57:56.240 how to deal with this. If you are approached by 2:57:56.280 --> 2:58:00.520 law enforcement, remember that the Fifth Amendment protect you're right 2:58:00.720 --> 2:58:03.400 not to speak to them. You have no obligation to 2:58:03.400 --> 2:58:06.360 speak to law enforcement. It is a crime to light 2:58:06.400 --> 2:58:09.600 of federal agents, and that means that it is safest 2:58:10.160 --> 2:58:14.119 not to say anything. Besides, I'm represented by counsel. Please 2:58:14.200 --> 2:58:16.680 leave your name a number, and my lawyer will call you. 2:58:16.920 --> 2:58:20.640 There is truly never a compelling reason to speak to 2:58:20.720 --> 2:58:26.000 federal agents before consulting with an attorney. The Energy Anti 2:58:26.040 --> 2:58:29.520 Repression Hotline can be reached at two one two six 2:58:29.600 --> 2:58:32.200 seven nine two eight one one. You can call to 2:58:32.240 --> 2:58:36.879 have a free privileged conversation about your rights, risks and responsibilities, 2:58:37.400 --> 2:58:40.840 and to be connected with appropriate legal resources in your area. 2:58:41.280 --> 2:58:43.560 And at the end of the day, we keep ourselves 2:58:43.600 --> 2:58:47.400 safe by refusing to submit to this fear, refusing to 2:58:47.440 --> 2:58:52.199 comply in advance, refusing to second guess whether we actually 2:58:52.280 --> 2:58:57.040 have rights, and more importantly, we persist by being confident 2:58:57.080 --> 2:58:59.800 in the fact that, no matter what, our communities are 2:58:59.800 --> 2:59:01.920 going to rally around and care for each other. 2:59:02.160 --> 2:59:04.040 I think that would be a great place to tie up. 2:59:04.480 --> 2:59:07.120 Thank you so much for having this conversation and for 2:59:07.200 --> 2:59:09.000 the insights that you've shared, and for the work that 2:59:09.040 --> 2:59:09.360 you do. 2:59:09.520 --> 2:59:11.920 Mo. You're very welcome. It's always a pleasure. 2:59:31.440 --> 2:59:34.000 Happy g October everybody. 2:59:33.480 --> 2:59:35.160 Oh, shut the fuck up, we can't. 2:59:35.360 --> 2:59:36.520 This is that could happen here? 2:59:36.600 --> 2:59:39.920 Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the 2:59:39.920 --> 2:59:42.160 White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. 2:59:42.560 --> 2:59:46.680 I'm garouson Davis Today, joint by me along Jamestown and 2:59:46.920 --> 2:59:49.880 Robert Evans. This episode recovering the week of September twenty 2:59:49.920 --> 2:59:54.080 first to October first, and what a week it was. Yeah, 2:59:54.120 --> 2:59:55.760 it does not feel like it should be October but 2:59:55.920 --> 2:59:59.720 who cares. I guess the government's shut down right now, 3:00:00.200 --> 3:00:03.119 So all of the dozens of anarchists around the country 3:00:03.160 --> 3:00:06.080 are rejoicing, uh huh, as the Senate has failed to 3:00:06.160 --> 3:00:08.120 pass a short term funding bill. 3:00:08.320 --> 3:00:11.080 That's right, everyone, we did it. We defeated the state 3:00:11.280 --> 3:00:13.320 using the power of the state. 3:00:13.400 --> 3:00:13.680 State. 3:00:14.120 --> 3:00:17.920 Yeah. In many such cases, as the government shut down, 3:00:17.959 --> 3:00:22.240 Trump is threatening mass layoffs, and Republicans are framing this 3:00:22.320 --> 3:00:25.600 whole shut down as being caused by Democrats who are 3:00:25.600 --> 3:00:31.200 trying to defend healthcare for quote unquote illegals, which isn't real. 3:00:31.560 --> 3:00:35.400 Undocumented immigrants do not get federal health care. That's not 3:00:35.480 --> 3:00:37.640 even what the Democrats are fighting for. Would be cool 3:00:37.680 --> 3:00:39.240 if they were, would be cool if the theory of 3:00:39.280 --> 3:00:41.480 this country you could just get health care, that sounds nice. 3:00:41.480 --> 3:00:43.800 Wouldn't that be a cool, almost utopian place to live. 3:00:44.200 --> 3:00:47.720 But that's not what's happening. And the rights confronted with this, 3:00:47.920 --> 3:00:50.760 but they just do not care. Here's a Mike Johnson, 3:00:50.840 --> 3:00:53.720 Speaker of the House, on CNN, having a little debate 3:00:53.840 --> 3:00:54.200 about this. 3:00:54.840 --> 3:00:58.360 If that counterproposal was enacted, is illegal aliens would be 3:00:58.440 --> 3:01:01.800 paid for American taxpayers hard earned dollars would be paying 3:01:01.879 --> 3:01:03.360 for benefits for illegal aliens. 3:01:03.400 --> 3:01:04.800 Again, we're not doing that, but it's. 3:01:04.680 --> 3:01:07.119 Against federal law for people who are here illegally. 3:01:06.959 --> 3:01:07.680 To get yes. 3:01:07.800 --> 3:01:10.080 And that's why our reforms are so important to enforce 3:01:10.120 --> 3:01:12.320 all that. What the important thing to remember is what's. 3:01:12.120 --> 3:01:14.920 Happened the Democratic proposal that people who are here illegally. 3:01:14.800 --> 3:01:16.880 Again, because they don't have the level of specification that 3:01:16.959 --> 3:01:18.960 we had in our bill, it will unwind that and 3:01:19.080 --> 3:01:22.000 all those things that the CBO just verified will be reversed. 3:01:22.040 --> 3:01:22.880 We can't afford to do that. 3:01:23.920 --> 3:01:26.800 But that you're making right, No, that is a red 3:01:26.879 --> 3:01:28.120 herring in this in this debate. 3:01:28.640 --> 3:01:31.240 So what the Democrats are actually doing right now is 3:01:31.280 --> 3:01:36.080 they're trying to extend the current currently enacted federal subsidies 3:01:36.120 --> 3:01:38.680 for the Affordable Care Act, which keeps millions of people 3:01:39.360 --> 3:01:43.040 able to access healthcare. And Democrats are also trying to 3:01:43.120 --> 3:01:46.439 reverse some of the federal health care cuts, including to Medicaid, 3:01:47.000 --> 3:01:50.760 which happened under the One Big, Beautiful Bill earlier this year. 3:01:51.160 --> 3:01:54.720 That is what they are actually fighting for. The White 3:01:54.760 --> 3:01:58.920 House is retruthing and retweeting proposals from the Democrats that 3:01:59.280 --> 3:02:03.520 include a health care for aliens. But that's legal aliens, 3:02:03.600 --> 3:02:07.400 that's like legal documented residents, And they're framing this as 3:02:07.520 --> 3:02:09.760 health care for quote unquote illegals. 3:02:10.640 --> 3:02:12.960 It's a bad faith representation, as it always is. Like 3:02:13.080 --> 3:02:15.720 people can go all the way back to the episode 3:02:15.760 --> 3:02:17.840 that I made with Robert Sophie last year about what 3:02:18.000 --> 3:02:21.440 Trump might do to learn more about the public charge 3:02:21.520 --> 3:02:24.000 rule and how that pertains to people who are not 3:02:24.160 --> 3:02:26.320 US citizens. I don't think we really have the time 3:02:26.360 --> 3:02:29.120 noise as the place to go over that here. But 3:02:29.240 --> 3:02:31.800 there is not, and there has never been a massive 3:02:31.920 --> 3:02:35.640 federal free health care plan for undocumented people. In fact, 3:02:35.840 --> 3:02:39.760 people who are undocumented are not going to see the 3:02:39.840 --> 3:02:43.960 doctor right now because of the persistent and untrue rumor 3:02:44.240 --> 3:02:47.320 that ICE are taking people from hospitals. That is not 3:02:47.480 --> 3:02:50.600 something I'm aware of ever happening. ICE do take people 3:02:50.600 --> 3:02:53.680 who are already in their custody to hospitals, and they 3:02:53.720 --> 3:02:56.720 will wait for those people while those people are treated. 3:02:56.800 --> 3:02:59.360 That it's not the same as entering the hospital and 3:02:59.440 --> 3:03:02.560 grabbing peace people based on the immigration status. And I'm 3:03:02.600 --> 3:03:06.160 aware of several cases where people whose life was genuinely 3:03:06.240 --> 3:03:09.680 in danger were afraid to go and seek medical attention. 3:03:09.879 --> 3:03:12.040 Because they were afraid that they would be targeted for 3:03:12.120 --> 3:03:13.240 their immigration status. 3:03:13.800 --> 3:03:16.120 So we'll see how long this government shut down last. 3:03:16.240 --> 3:03:19.320 The last one started on twenty eighteen, lasted thirty five days. 3:03:20.320 --> 3:03:22.240 If this shutdown is still happening next week, I'm sure 3:03:22.240 --> 3:03:25.520 we will include some details about government services being affected. 3:03:25.600 --> 3:03:28.039 But this could resolve in a few days, a few hours, 3:03:28.200 --> 3:03:29.360 or in a few weeks. 3:03:29.440 --> 3:03:30.240 We do not know. 3:03:31.160 --> 3:03:34.840 But luckily, not all is depressing and dark in this country. 3:03:34.879 --> 3:03:36.600 There still is a ray of hope. And that ray 3:03:36.640 --> 3:03:39.600 of hope is named Jimmy Kimball, who was thankfully back 3:03:39.680 --> 3:03:41.840 on the air. I know we've all been watching. We've 3:03:41.879 --> 3:03:45.520 all been watching this certainly, and next our En Sinclair 3:03:45.640 --> 3:03:48.720 have ceased preempting his show. That's back on air across 3:03:48.800 --> 3:03:53.520 the country. Free speech is hashtag. So back in America, provert, 3:03:53.560 --> 3:03:55.800 Do you want to talk about the Disney plus Voika? 3:03:56.400 --> 3:04:00.920 Yes, So we've gotten some data finally on the damaged 3:04:00.959 --> 3:04:04.599 on to Disney's result of the boycott. After they fired Monsieur. 3:04:04.280 --> 3:04:07.039 Kimmel suspended, suspended, Monsieur kim. 3:04:06.959 --> 3:04:10.600 Il suspended, suspended, they were definitely going to fire They 3:04:10.640 --> 3:04:13.160 wanted to fire his They definitely wanted to fire him, 3:04:13.520 --> 3:04:15.880 and you know, there was a lot of posting online 3:04:16.160 --> 3:04:18.160 about there was a lot of posting, a lot of 3:04:18.240 --> 3:04:21.840 posting about people canceling their accounts and people being like wow, 3:04:22.240 --> 3:04:24.560 and it's I always it's always very frustrated to me 3:04:24.600 --> 3:04:27.680 because like people get very excited and it's impossible to 3:04:27.760 --> 3:04:29.520 tell with the moment, is this actually anything? 3:04:29.680 --> 3:04:29.800 Right? 3:04:29.920 --> 3:04:30.080 Yees? 3:04:30.120 --> 3:04:33.760 Sixteen thousand people shared this thing about how the website 3:04:33.840 --> 3:04:38.320 for Disney was down, but that doesn't mean anything other 3:04:38.440 --> 3:04:40.560 than like someone saw the website down and a bunch 3:04:40.560 --> 3:04:42.440 of people shared and posted it. So it was very 3:04:42.480 --> 3:04:46.160 difficult to tell, like, is there actually any follow through 3:04:46.240 --> 3:04:49.720 on this is Disney's bottom line being hurt? And thankfully, 3:04:49.760 --> 3:04:51.560 I'm very happy to say that it does look like 3:04:51.640 --> 3:04:57.000 Disney suffered a substantial financial setback as a result of 3:04:57.080 --> 3:05:00.640 the boycott campaign. Something like one point seven million paid 3:05:00.720 --> 3:05:04.360 subscribers canceled, and this was immediately before Disney was looking 3:05:04.400 --> 3:05:07.640 to announce a price increase, So like, this is this 3:05:07.840 --> 3:05:11.600 is like a serious I'm not surprised they reversed. Course, 3:05:11.720 --> 3:05:13.800 this is like damaging to them. We're not talking about 3:05:13.800 --> 3:05:15.600 the amount of money that a company like Disney would 3:05:15.640 --> 3:05:16.080 just ignore. 3:05:16.400 --> 3:05:19.360 Yeah, And I think the most important thing here for 3:05:19.480 --> 3:05:21.160 all of us, and this is the thing I talked about. 3:05:21.200 --> 3:05:23.080 We did an episode about this. This is actually before 3:05:24.560 --> 3:05:28.920 kim Old I've reinstated by Sinclair. But one of the 3:05:29.000 --> 3:05:33.200 really important things here is that everyone fucking hates this government. 3:05:33.840 --> 3:05:36.959 They are hideously unpopular. All of the all of their 3:05:37.040 --> 3:05:41.000 sort of legitimization stuff, all of the sort of media 3:05:41.080 --> 3:05:44.440 complicity they've bought has bought them about four percent of 3:05:44.480 --> 3:05:46.200 proof of rating bump from where they were this time 3:05:46.240 --> 3:05:48.039 of the administration the first time, so he said about 3:05:48.160 --> 3:05:50.920 forty one percent of poof of rating. Everything that he's 3:05:51.000 --> 3:05:54.480 doing is hideously underwater. Like his most popular thing is 3:05:54.520 --> 3:05:56.520 is immigration policy, which is horrible, but it's again like 3:05:56.640 --> 3:05:59.520 forty two percent. Everyone hates these people, yeah, you know. 3:05:59.680 --> 3:06:01.520 And it's it's very easy, because of their controlled and 3:06:01.560 --> 3:06:03.920 media spear, to believe that they have this sort of 3:06:04.000 --> 3:06:08.280 total hegemonic power over everyone in the US until the 3:06:08.400 --> 3:06:10.720 exact moment where it gets challenged and everyone's like, wait, 3:06:10.760 --> 3:06:12.360 hold on, no, it turns out most of the country 3:06:12.640 --> 3:06:17.119 hates this. Does not what Jimmy Kimmel acts from Disney. 3:06:17.640 --> 3:06:20.200 Like comrade Kimmel has joined the fight. 3:06:20.640 --> 3:06:20.840 Yeah. 3:06:21.040 --> 3:06:22.879 Yeah, there are more of us than there are of them, 3:06:22.920 --> 3:06:24.160 and there always have been, and. 3:06:24.240 --> 3:06:26.400 By more of us, Mia is referring to herself and 3:06:26.480 --> 3:06:28.440 Jimmy Kimmel as a coherent political class. 3:06:28.680 --> 3:06:30.080 Just for the record, there no. 3:06:30.959 --> 3:06:33.360 The only two members of the coherent political class. 3:06:35.360 --> 3:06:36.320 But that's good news. 3:06:36.480 --> 3:06:42.120 Just the state which holds me up to Kimmel and. 3:06:43.640 --> 3:06:46.400 Entirety of the fourth Estate. But I don't know, there's 3:06:46.400 --> 3:06:48.080 a little bit of good news for you. A bunch 3:06:48.080 --> 3:06:51.720 of people got really pissed at something blatantly anti First Amendment, 3:06:51.800 --> 3:06:56.400 anti democratic, massive overreach of the state, thought crime, nonsense, 3:06:57.040 --> 3:07:01.080 and the company suffered such dramatic within like literally in 3:07:01.160 --> 3:07:03.160 the space of a week. That's three hundred and thirty 3:07:03.200 --> 3:07:06.039 million or so million dollars a year that Disney lost 3:07:06.400 --> 3:07:09.080 that even Disney can't ignore that kind of money. 3:07:09.360 --> 3:07:10.560 Oh looks like regular people. 3:07:10.879 --> 3:07:13.680 Yeah, yeah, like people who subscribe to Disney bluss. 3:07:14.000 --> 3:07:17.520 Yeah, an army of ordinary liberals, the actual like silent 3:07:17.640 --> 3:07:20.680 majority in this country. Yeah said no Disney, Like. 3:07:20.760 --> 3:07:23.960 Well, that's gross and scary. I'm not paying Disney anymore. Yeah, 3:07:23.959 --> 3:07:25.240 and it's good that they did that. 3:07:25.640 --> 3:07:29.560 Currently, the rights trying to manufacture a counter boycott against 3:07:29.640 --> 3:07:33.920 Netflix for having children's shows with non binary characters, mostly 3:07:34.080 --> 3:07:36.840 using clips the children's shows that are like two or 3:07:36.920 --> 3:07:39.120 three years old, clips that Limbs of Talk Talk has 3:07:39.120 --> 3:07:42.120 already posted years ago. Now try to write check and 3:07:42.160 --> 3:07:44.760 others are recirculating these clips to be like, yeah, look 3:07:44.800 --> 3:07:47.320 a look at how Netflix has gone too far as 3:07:47.360 --> 3:07:51.040 pushing woke nonsense down the throats of your children by 3:07:51.160 --> 3:07:54.119 using like ancient clips from like the Jurassic Park TV 3:07:54.240 --> 3:07:55.920 show Like okay, guys, good luck with that. 3:07:56.080 --> 3:07:56.440 Have fun. 3:07:56.800 --> 3:07:57.000 Yeah. 3:07:58.000 --> 3:08:03.320 In other news, the Department of War. This actually happened 3:08:03.560 --> 3:08:06.520 last month. On September fifth, Trump signed an executive order 3:08:06.840 --> 3:08:10.760 approving the name the Department of War as a secondary 3:08:10.800 --> 3:08:14.400 title for the Department of Defense to use an official correspondence, 3:08:14.440 --> 3:08:19.400 public communications, ceremonial contexts, and non statutory documents within the 3:08:19.520 --> 3:08:23.440 Executive Branch, while the administration also works on changing the 3:08:23.560 --> 3:08:28.160 name officially through Congress. Hag Seth nearly immediately switched all 3:08:28.240 --> 3:08:30.920 of his accounts and his office name plate to read 3:08:31.320 --> 3:08:32.640 Secretary of War. 3:08:32.879 --> 3:08:35.200 Yeah, you know, he pushed hard for this one. 3:08:36.240 --> 3:08:41.600 Defense dot gov now redirects to War dot gov and 3:08:41.680 --> 3:08:44.360 they're just referring to this in all public appearances as 3:08:44.520 --> 3:08:47.800 the War Department, something that we've talked about on the 3:08:47.840 --> 3:08:49.360 show before of them wanting to do and they're going 3:08:49.400 --> 3:08:52.360 to continue to push this and using this kind of 3:08:52.440 --> 3:08:54.640 war framing for domestic operations. 3:08:54.920 --> 3:08:57.279 Yeah, not just international deployments. 3:08:58.280 --> 3:09:01.560 This was its historical name right like way way before 3:09:01.600 --> 3:09:04.200 it was a DoD Yeah. Yeah, it was, so just 3:09:04.280 --> 3:09:06.520 to be clear for people, that doesn't mean that it's 3:09:06.680 --> 3:09:08.920 like a good reason to change it back. 3:09:09.480 --> 3:09:14.760 Trump truthed last week quote at the request of the 3:09:14.760 --> 3:09:17.879 Secretary of Homeland Security, Christ you know, I'm directing Secretary 3:09:18.000 --> 3:09:21.560 of War Pete Hagsath to provide all necessary troops to 3:09:21.680 --> 3:09:26.439 protect war ravaged Portland and any of our ice facilities 3:09:26.560 --> 3:09:30.400 under siege from attack by Antifa and other domestic terrorists. 3:09:30.400 --> 3:09:33.960 I'm also authorizing full force if necessary. Thank you for 3:09:34.040 --> 3:09:38.640 your attention in this matter. War ravaged Portland. How's it 3:09:38.720 --> 3:09:41.560 hanging out there for our Portland correspondence. 3:09:40.959 --> 3:09:43.360 It's fine. It's kind of rainy. I had a nice 3:09:43.360 --> 3:09:45.440 tapas dinner on Sunday. It was pretty good. 3:09:45.879 --> 3:09:47.000 The crows are really nice. 3:09:47.360 --> 3:09:48.840 What it does, does someone want to mention, like the 3:09:49.000 --> 3:09:51.800 nature of the anti ICE protests happening in like one 3:09:51.959 --> 3:09:55.640 square block in like the south water front of downtown Portland. 3:09:55.879 --> 3:09:58.920 Yeah, it's in the South water front McAdam is what 3:09:59.000 --> 3:10:02.600 people here call it, the neighborhood where the ICE auxiliary 3:10:02.720 --> 3:10:06.280 facility is. And there have been protests off and on 3:10:06.520 --> 3:10:10.040 pretty much since Trump took office. Usually on like a 3:10:10.120 --> 3:10:12.360 good night you get maybe one hundred and fifty two 3:10:12.440 --> 3:10:15.039 hundred people. There were some nights kind of around where 3:10:15.080 --> 3:10:16.600 things blew up in LA that there were more like 3:10:16.680 --> 3:10:18.640 five or six hundred people out for a couple of days. 3:10:19.120 --> 3:10:21.600 There really hasn't been any of the like what we 3:10:21.680 --> 3:10:23.640 were seeing in twenty twenty in terms of like the 3:10:23.760 --> 3:10:27.200 mass mass gatherings. And you know, there has not really 3:10:27.320 --> 3:10:29.920 been much in the way of like people getting arrested. 3:10:30.040 --> 3:10:33.279 Generally getting arrested for crossing a line that separates federal 3:10:33.360 --> 3:10:36.640 property from like state property so to speak, and like 3:10:36.760 --> 3:10:38.560 step over it and then a bunch of guys run 3:10:38.600 --> 3:10:40.640 out and grab them, right. That's that's mostly what the 3:10:40.760 --> 3:10:44.160 arrests are for a lot of people have had charges dropped. 3:10:44.200 --> 3:10:46.760 I mean, people get fucked up charges when they get charged, 3:10:46.840 --> 3:10:49.840 but a lot of them are not really sticking because 3:10:49.840 --> 3:10:52.400 they're not very strong, like because it's just not much 3:10:52.520 --> 3:10:52.880 going on. 3:10:53.280 --> 3:10:56.840 Right, Yeah, we'll talk more about why Trump thinks there's 3:10:56.959 --> 3:11:00.280 this apocalypse now scenario happening in Portland. But yeah, so 3:11:00.440 --> 3:11:02.520 far the protests have been relatively mild. 3:11:03.080 --> 3:11:06.320 Yes, Yeah, the vibe is very much like the classic 3:11:06.360 --> 3:11:09.160 Portland thing of people with like holding doughnuts on fishing 3:11:09.240 --> 3:11:11.160 lines out in front of the cops. Right, it's like that, 3:11:11.640 --> 3:11:12.920 not like molotovs. 3:11:13.200 --> 3:11:15.480 The response has been crazy, Like there's a video going 3:11:15.560 --> 3:11:18.280 around that's a bunch of federal agents. I think they're 3:11:18.360 --> 3:11:21.880 fps rolling in up from a van from outside of 3:11:21.959 --> 3:11:25.279 the ice facility and arresting somebody who again probably crossed 3:11:25.320 --> 3:11:28.000 a line or through something generally is why people have 3:11:28.040 --> 3:11:30.520 been getting arrested. So that the response has been nonsense. 3:11:30.600 --> 3:11:32.800 That that video is from recently, and I'm seeing it 3:11:32.879 --> 3:11:37.000 attributed to Trump's declaration of war. But like I saw 3:11:37.040 --> 3:11:39.760 stuff like that three months ago, four months ago, Like 3:11:39.879 --> 3:11:41.920 it's been happening every day, like they do roll up 3:11:41.959 --> 3:11:44.440 in their vans when they because they periodically throughout the 3:11:44.520 --> 3:11:46.560 day will have Feds come in to go grab a 3:11:46.600 --> 3:11:48.680 couple of people. And that this is a thing they've 3:11:48.720 --> 3:11:52.360 been doing, so they've been so far at least, I 3:11:52.480 --> 3:11:55.879 have not seen either an escalation on the ground really 3:11:56.200 --> 3:11:59.040 in terms of like what protests, what the protests are doing, 3:11:59.120 --> 3:12:01.920 and the numbers of protest since Trump's declaration. And I 3:12:02.000 --> 3:12:05.560 also really haven't seen an escalation in what's being deployed 3:12:05.920 --> 3:12:06.480 on the ground. 3:12:06.640 --> 3:12:08.880 We have not seen the Oregon National Guard presence that 3:12:09.000 --> 3:12:13.560 is being promised now this has just been DHS officers. 3:12:14.080 --> 3:12:18.080 I can confirm, just based on some information that's come 3:12:18.160 --> 3:12:20.480 my way, that there do seem to be an increased 3:12:20.600 --> 3:12:24.840 number of DHS Blackhawks flying with their transponders off. Yes, 3:12:24.879 --> 3:12:27.960 there's a couple of reasons they can do that. Some 3:12:28.080 --> 3:12:31.200 of them is for if they are transporting like high 3:12:31.280 --> 3:12:35.040 value quote unquote deportees, right, people who are being deported 3:12:35.120 --> 3:12:38.520 for some sort of serious crime. Some of it is 3:12:38.560 --> 3:12:40.480 if they are feel like they are under threat and 3:12:40.560 --> 3:12:44.600 are doing like emergency personnel transfers. They're not generally supposed 3:12:44.600 --> 3:12:47.320 to fly without their transponders, although again, you can't really 3:12:47.400 --> 3:12:49.520 trust anything to work the way it's supposed to work. 3:12:49.840 --> 3:12:51.760 But there is some evidence that they have been ramping 3:12:51.840 --> 3:12:54.480 up and they have been flying more MQ nine's over 3:12:54.520 --> 3:12:59.280 the city reaper drones for surveillance purposes, so that I 3:12:59.400 --> 3:13:00.960 can say to it does seem to have been a 3:13:01.080 --> 3:13:03.600 degree of escalation, but in terms of we're not seeing 3:13:03.720 --> 3:13:06.600 troops marching through the city yet, and I honestly can't, 3:13:06.600 --> 3:13:08.480 it doesn't seem to me, as of the moment that 3:13:08.560 --> 3:13:11.080 we're recording this, that there has been an escalation and 3:13:11.120 --> 3:13:13.880 the level of force used on the ground right now. 3:13:13.920 --> 3:13:15.840 That said, the level of force use on the ground 3:13:15.959 --> 3:13:19.800 before Trump declared his war on Portland or whatever, it 3:13:19.879 --> 3:13:22.880 was still pretty extreme. That has continued. I just it 3:13:22.920 --> 3:13:25.400 doesn't seem like what's happening right now is a massive 3:13:25.640 --> 3:13:27.440 increase over where we were two weeks ago, you know. 3:13:27.520 --> 3:13:28.160 That's all I'm saying. 3:13:28.480 --> 3:13:30.840 And I think the place where that has happened is Chicago, 3:13:30.879 --> 3:13:32.119 and we will get to that later. 3:13:32.560 --> 3:13:34.080 Yeah. Yeah. Well. 3:13:34.360 --> 3:13:38.480 Trump has continued to talk about deploying quote unquote troops 3:13:38.760 --> 3:13:43.640 to US cities, including at a meeting of top brass 3:13:43.800 --> 3:13:48.080 on Tuesday, September thirtieth, where Pete hag Seth basically ranted 3:13:48.600 --> 3:13:51.800 to top of generals and admirals about no more wokeness 3:13:51.879 --> 3:13:56.680 in the military, but Trump also spoke telling top military 3:13:56.680 --> 3:13:59.959 officials to prepare to deploy military to liberal run city, 3:14:00.800 --> 3:14:05.000 calling it a quote war from within. Let's play the clip. 3:14:05.560 --> 3:14:08.400 But it seems that the ones that are run by 3:14:08.400 --> 3:14:12.560 the radical left Democrats, what they've done to San Francisco, Chicago, 3:14:13.560 --> 3:14:17.959 New York, Los Angeles, they're very unsafe places, and we're 3:14:18.000 --> 3:14:19.480 going to straighten them out. It will be a major 3:14:19.560 --> 3:14:21.480 part for some of the people in this room. That's 3:14:21.480 --> 3:14:24.840 a war too, It's a war from within. Controlling the 3:14:24.920 --> 3:14:29.240 physical territory of our border is essential to national security. 3:14:29.320 --> 3:14:30.600 We can't let these people. 3:14:30.400 --> 3:14:34.480 In the two separate issues they have that he conflated, right, 3:14:34.760 --> 3:14:38.360 protests in cities and people crossing the border. 3:14:39.120 --> 3:14:42.120 Yeah, and that's the way Trump's been talking about this 3:14:42.200 --> 3:14:44.000 for a while. I mean, same thing with like DC right, 3:14:44.160 --> 3:14:49.320 combining this like crime issue with undocumented immigration, and also 3:14:49.480 --> 3:14:54.119 with protests against ICE operations targeting undocumented immigrants, all kind 3:14:54.160 --> 3:14:57.480 of bundled together into this into this war from within. 3:14:58.120 --> 3:14:58.360 Yeah. 3:14:59.080 --> 3:15:02.360 I mean the ration issue, right, is one that gives 3:15:02.440 --> 3:15:06.120 him a much broaderly way and the powers the constitutionally 3:15:06.160 --> 3:15:10.320 available to him as the executive than policing with the military, 3:15:10.360 --> 3:15:12.240 which is on the facefoot of thing that shouldn't happen 3:15:12.280 --> 3:15:15.160 in the United States. It makes sense from a tactical 3:15:15.200 --> 3:15:17.640 perspective for them to conflate those two things together, I 3:15:17.680 --> 3:15:20.360 will say, even if it's not particularly real. 3:15:21.440 --> 3:15:26.000 During this televised meeting, Trump told military leaders quote, last month, 3:15:26.040 --> 3:15:28.320 I signing an executive order to provide training for a 3:15:28.440 --> 3:15:33.880 quick reaction force that can help quell civil disturbances. This 3:15:34.040 --> 3:15:35.680 is going to be a big thing for the people 3:15:35.840 --> 3:15:39.760 in this room talking to the generals, because it's the 3:15:40.240 --> 3:15:43.400 enemy from within, and we will have to handle it 3:15:43.520 --> 3:15:46.080 before it gets out of control. It won't get out 3:15:46.120 --> 3:15:48.800 of control once you're involved. 3:15:49.240 --> 3:15:49.720 Unquote. 3:15:50.360 --> 3:15:54.920 They're directly addressing admirals and generals about them having to 3:15:54.959 --> 3:15:58.160 help form a quick reaction for us to quell civil disturbance, 3:15:58.600 --> 3:16:01.440 which won't get out of control once they're involved, calling 3:16:01.520 --> 3:16:03.840 it again the enemy from within, align that Trump used 3:16:03.840 --> 3:16:06.360 a lot during the tail end of his presidential campaign 3:16:06.400 --> 3:16:07.280 in twenty twenty four. 3:16:07.720 --> 3:16:11.039 Yeah, which is just it's every single element. 3:16:11.080 --> 3:16:13.560 If it is just fascist, it's it's pretty it's pretty 3:16:13.560 --> 3:16:15.920 blanket authoritarian stuff. Like there's no like sugarcoating it here. 3:16:15.959 --> 3:16:18.600 Oh yeah, Yeah, they don't need to use coded phrases, right, 3:16:18.840 --> 3:16:19.720 they just say this stuff. 3:16:19.920 --> 3:16:21.880 Yeah, No, they're just yeah, they're just this is this 3:16:22.000 --> 3:16:24.240 is just fascist, Like they're just trying to do it. 3:16:24.360 --> 3:16:25.480 Yeah, they're just saying the thing. 3:16:25.760 --> 3:16:30.000 In the meeting, he explicitly labeled these dangerous cities as 3:16:30.360 --> 3:16:33.520 a training ground for our military National Guard. 3:16:33.840 --> 3:16:36.080 But I want to salute every service member who has 3:16:36.120 --> 3:16:38.720 helped us carry out this critical mission. It's really a 3:16:38.840 --> 3:16:41.800 very important mission. And I told Pete we should use 3:16:41.840 --> 3:16:45.640 some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our 3:16:45.760 --> 3:16:50.800 military National Guard. But military because we're going into Chicago version. 3:16:50.959 --> 3:16:54.960 That's a big city with an incompetent governor. Stupid governor stupid. 3:16:55.800 --> 3:16:57.920 And I think it's worth noting both the mayor of 3:16:58.080 --> 3:17:02.440 Chicago and the governor Prits have been very unhappy about this. 3:17:03.440 --> 3:17:07.320 Like as much as Pritzker has kind of not been 3:17:07.360 --> 3:17:12.280 doing anything about like CPD aiding ice in raids, he 3:17:12.480 --> 3:17:16.440 is absolutely not budging at all about not putting National 3:17:16.440 --> 3:17:19.360 Guard troops in. So if they're very serious about following 3:17:19.400 --> 3:17:20.800 this through, we're going to see some kind of large 3:17:20.800 --> 3:17:21.560 scale confrontation. 3:17:21.720 --> 3:17:21.879 Yep. 3:17:22.360 --> 3:17:29.440 And Pritzker is not the kind of like knock needs Uh, 3:17:30.640 --> 3:17:32.920 Gavin Newsom type governor. 3:17:33.120 --> 3:17:34.199 Yeah, he's not Gavin Newson. 3:17:34.320 --> 3:17:36.560 He's not simply just going to let Trump do this. 3:17:37.120 --> 3:17:39.080 And yeah, that's going to be a major source of 3:17:39.120 --> 3:17:41.680 confrontation assuming this, assuming this specific like we're going to 3:17:41.720 --> 3:17:45.040 send the National Guard in the Chicago stuff like happens soon. 3:17:45.879 --> 3:17:50.640 Trump also talked about talking with Tina Kotec, governor of Oregon, 3:17:50.879 --> 3:17:54.320 about deploying Oregon National Gardener, and her pushing back against that, 3:17:54.560 --> 3:17:58.320 but ostensibly acquiescing in some way because there's been an 3:17:58.320 --> 3:18:00.240 announcement from the organ National Guard that they will be 3:18:00.280 --> 3:18:02.720 deploying and people in Oregon probably aren't gonna be happy 3:18:02.720 --> 3:18:06.280 about it, they won't understand the mission. But during this meeting, 3:18:06.360 --> 3:18:09.959 Trump did talk about his phone calls with the Oregon governor. 3:18:10.160 --> 3:18:15.400 Portland, Oregon, where it looks like a war zone, and 3:18:15.520 --> 3:18:18.760 I get a call from the liberal governor, sir, please 3:18:18.800 --> 3:18:20.920 don't come in. We don't need you. I said, well, 3:18:21.000 --> 3:18:24.959 unless they're playing false tapes, this looked like World War two. 3:18:25.840 --> 3:18:30.840 Your place is burning down. I mean, you must be kidding, sir. 3:18:31.080 --> 3:18:32.800 We have it under control. I said, you don't have 3:18:32.879 --> 3:18:36.360 it under control, Governor. But I'll check it and I'll 3:18:36.400 --> 3:18:38.560 call you back. I called it back. I said, this 3:18:38.720 --> 3:18:43.800 place is a nightmare. Probably it's certainly not the biggest, 3:18:43.840 --> 3:18:46.480 but it's one of the worst. Is brew They go 3:18:46.560 --> 3:18:50.880 after our ice people, who are great patriots and tough 3:18:51.040 --> 3:18:52.840 job too, but they love it. They love it because 3:18:52.840 --> 3:18:54.439 they're cleaning up our country. 3:18:55.320 --> 3:18:57.640 And I think because there's a fifty thousand dollars sign up. 3:18:59.000 --> 3:19:02.080 Well, unless they're play false tapes, so the tapes aren't 3:19:02.120 --> 3:19:05.280 necessarily false. But if you're watching Fox News twenty four 3:19:05.280 --> 3:19:08.560 to seven, what Fox News is doing is they're playing 3:19:08.600 --> 3:19:10.480 a lot of clips not from the Year of Our 3:19:10.560 --> 3:19:13.400 Lord twenty twenty five, but in fact from twenty twenty 3:19:14.000 --> 3:19:18.000 when Trump's last federal invasion of Portland happened, where he 3:19:18.080 --> 3:19:21.520 deployed Bortac, which looked much more like a war scene. 3:19:21.560 --> 3:19:24.000 Do you know why, because of the massive amounts of 3:19:24.080 --> 3:19:29.400 chemical munitions that Bortac like caked downtown Portland in which 3:19:29.440 --> 3:19:33.680 made it look very similar to a war scene. So, yeah, 3:19:34.160 --> 3:19:37.160 those are the clips that are playing NonStop on TV. 3:19:37.320 --> 3:19:39.879 I've been watching Fox News clips. They're just playing clips 3:19:39.920 --> 3:19:43.600 of Portland twenty twenty to make this look like a 3:19:43.640 --> 3:19:46.320 different situation than what the current on the ground situation is, 3:19:46.600 --> 3:19:50.040 which may have some intense moments, but not nearly the 3:19:50.120 --> 3:19:53.880 intensity of five years ago, which again was stoked by 3:19:53.920 --> 3:19:57.960 Trump's own military police force, which was deployed to the city. 3:19:58.520 --> 3:20:03.320 So, yeah, there's information that Trump got corrected. Internally, I 3:20:03.400 --> 3:20:05.320 don't know that I think that that's going to mean anything, 3:20:06.080 --> 3:20:09.600 but yeah, six year old footage, five year old footage 3:20:09.640 --> 3:20:12.600 being used to justify military deployments about you'd expect. 3:20:13.160 --> 3:20:16.600 Really literally, yesterday I saw footage circulating on x the 3:20:16.680 --> 3:20:20.320 Everything app of someone throwing a Molotov cocktail into a street. 3:20:20.400 --> 3:20:25.840 Yeah, I remember that Molotov. I remember that molo, that 3:20:26.040 --> 3:20:29.080 malotav getting thrown half a decade ago. 3:20:29.320 --> 3:20:32.680 It only hit another protester whose feet got very badly burned. Yes, 3:20:33.160 --> 3:20:35.520 And that's the type of footage circulating that makes it 3:20:35.560 --> 3:20:38.279 look like, you know, once again, Portland's burning down, Portland's 3:20:38.280 --> 3:20:41.440 always burning down, using like one or two select clips 3:20:41.520 --> 3:20:43.120 from yeah, half a decade ago. 3:20:43.280 --> 3:20:45.640 Again, no buildings actually burnt down. 3:20:46.080 --> 3:20:49.320 Yeah, they've created a reality around what happened important in 3:20:49.360 --> 3:20:53.400 twenty twenty that you will never change with facts or evidence. Right, 3:20:53.560 --> 3:20:57.240 Like to people who watch Fox News. Portland was burned 3:20:57.280 --> 3:20:59.480 to the ground in twenty twenty. 3:20:59.400 --> 3:21:02.000 And on the worst nights in Portland, we could go 3:21:02.120 --> 3:21:04.440 three blocks and get food from a food cart. 3:21:04.560 --> 3:21:06.160 Yeah, we got a lot of great Chinese food. 3:21:06.160 --> 3:21:06.480 That stuff. 3:21:06.480 --> 3:21:10.440 We've got great Chinese food, schwarma, you know in La. 3:21:10.440 --> 3:21:13.120 When the city was whatever under siege. I went to 3:21:13.160 --> 3:21:16.480 Buffalo Wild Wings and pretty pretty normal Buffalo Wild Wings 3:21:16.520 --> 3:21:17.879 at two am on a Wednesday scene. 3:21:18.320 --> 3:21:20.720 That's a war zone. That's a war zone. 3:21:20.800 --> 3:21:23.760 I had my plague carrier on. I was ready to go. 3:21:24.360 --> 3:21:25.120 Here's some ads. 3:21:25.200 --> 3:21:28.840 We'll be back to talk about Chicago. But enjoy these 3:21:29.440 --> 3:21:31.520 possibly Buffalo Wild Wings sponsored ads. 3:21:31.920 --> 3:21:48.560 I doubt it. No vegan food. All right, we are back, sweet, 3:21:48.600 --> 3:21:50.440 and it's good to be back. I want to talk 3:21:50.680 --> 3:21:55.400 very briefly about Pete egsass sec war as he is 3:21:55.480 --> 3:21:57.680 calling himself now right in the little speech he gave 3:21:57.760 --> 3:22:03.640 Pete Pegs he's he's working on his physical fitness for sure, 3:22:03.680 --> 3:22:07.640 his bod that he put a big emphasis on physical 3:22:07.680 --> 3:22:10.800 fitness in his speech, along with grooming standards and other shit. 3:22:11.000 --> 3:22:12.039 Male standards. 3:22:12.360 --> 3:22:15.080 Yes, everybody has to attain the male standard for the 3:22:15.160 --> 3:22:19.080 various role of their combat roles that if they want 3:22:19.120 --> 3:22:21.000 to do that, right, So that would mean, you know, 3:22:21.080 --> 3:22:24.560 the Army Physical Fitness test, right, whatever the male standard 3:22:24.680 --> 3:22:28.000 quote unquote was would be everyone's standard. I don't want 3:22:28.000 --> 3:22:30.040 to go deep into hegseth career that would be that 3:22:30.040 --> 3:22:33.320 would be another episode, possibly of another show. But I 3:22:33.360 --> 3:22:35.560 do want to talk about the stuff. Did you notice 3:22:35.600 --> 3:22:37.720 he said no more. He listed number of generals, but 3:22:37.800 --> 3:22:39.600 one of them was Milli, Right, he said no more 3:22:39.680 --> 3:22:42.200 Millis Chiarelli, and I forget who the other one was, 3:22:42.640 --> 3:22:45.680 But I thought that was interesting given what we saw 3:22:45.800 --> 3:22:49.000 Trump say about a QRF. Right, Milli had a long 3:22:49.080 --> 3:22:51.360 career in the military. Right, he saw plenty of combat 3:22:51.400 --> 3:22:53.680 and all that stuff. But I think he's most well 3:22:53.720 --> 3:22:57.120 known to most people for his cooling effect on the 3:22:57.280 --> 3:23:01.360 use of the US military against protests in twenty twenty ls. 3:23:01.640 --> 3:23:04.600 I think that is what that was referring to, Right 3:23:04.680 --> 3:23:08.160 that Hegcess was talking about removing that kind of person 3:23:08.480 --> 3:23:09.199 from command. 3:23:09.360 --> 3:23:13.360 And Milly also said no to Trump when he wanted 3:23:13.440 --> 3:23:16.680 to deploy for and he was also working behind the scenes. 3:23:16.720 --> 3:23:19.120 He's admitted now with Pelosi being like, we need to 3:23:19.320 --> 3:23:21.160 have a plan if he tries to use the nukes 3:23:21.200 --> 3:23:21.879 after the election. 3:23:22.360 --> 3:23:26.440 Yeah, Milly was doing everything he could to mitigate what 3:23:26.520 --> 3:23:31.000 he saw as a massive danger of Trump responding in 3:23:31.080 --> 3:23:32.840 a completely disproportionate. 3:23:32.240 --> 3:23:34.200 Way, a legitimate national security and danger. 3:23:34.320 --> 3:23:38.240 Yeah, yes, yeah, like, yeah, someone whose job is protecting 3:23:38.280 --> 3:23:41.000 the United States like that, that's some reasonable concern. Was 3:23:41.040 --> 3:23:44.760 a reasonable concern at that time. Obviously, the Trump administration 3:23:44.920 --> 3:23:48.640 does not want people like that in command anymore, and 3:23:49.080 --> 3:23:51.920 that was something that hegxcess spoke about at length. The 3:23:52.120 --> 3:23:56.200 rest of his speech focused on shit like fitness standards, 3:23:56.240 --> 3:23:59.800 shit like grooming visible tattoos, a bunch of stuff that 3:23:59.840 --> 3:24:03.200 you would expect from a mid career infantry officer who 3:24:03.240 --> 3:24:05.560 hasn't had a particularly distinguished career, right, Like, that's the 3:24:05.600 --> 3:24:08.960 shit that mid career infantry officers do. 3:24:09.280 --> 3:24:12.160 I think you mean war fighters, James, which is Haig 3:24:12.240 --> 3:24:14.040 Seth's preferred term for soldiers. 3:24:14.240 --> 3:24:19.920 Yes, fuck me. Yeah, Well, because it's gender neutrals start that. 3:24:20.040 --> 3:24:21.280 They've been doing that for a while. 3:24:21.400 --> 3:24:23.280 But yeah, it's on the MRIs, it's been on the 3:24:23.320 --> 3:24:25.760 Emeris for a while. But yes, Haig Seth does like 3:24:25.840 --> 3:24:30.480 the phrase war fighters. His stuff was, like I said, 3:24:30.520 --> 3:24:32.600 not something you would expect from someone who I think 3:24:32.640 --> 3:24:35.760 he was an O four in the national card, right. 3:24:35.840 --> 3:24:39.040 I don't think any of that is particularly new. He 3:24:39.160 --> 3:24:42.600 issued a number of directives. One thing I did want 3:24:42.640 --> 3:24:46.520 to talk about was this change in grooming standards. So 3:24:46.879 --> 3:24:52.440 the War Department has issued a new directive on shaving profiles. 3:24:53.080 --> 3:24:56.959 What this does in practice is we can see from 3:24:57.000 --> 3:25:01.040 their announcement, which features prominently a black soldier shaving, is 3:25:01.440 --> 3:25:05.520 it takes away long term shaving profiles for soldiers with 3:25:05.600 --> 3:25:10.760 medical conditions such as pseudopholic gulitis or exma, or other 3:25:10.840 --> 3:25:14.000 soldiers who experienced skin irritation by shaving. 3:25:14.120 --> 3:25:14.200 Right. 3:25:14.360 --> 3:25:18.200 Previously, those soldiers may have had a like a waiver 3:25:18.720 --> 3:25:22.400 which they could show to their officers, and their officer said, hey, soldier, 3:25:22.480 --> 3:25:28.320 why haven't you shaved? Soldier, sailor, emon, Space Force guardian, whatever, 3:25:28.879 --> 3:25:31.080 why haven't you shaved? They could say, well, I'm on 3:25:31.160 --> 3:25:33.680 the shaving profile because of this condition that I have. 3:25:34.280 --> 3:25:37.520 Now you will only have a year and then you 3:25:37.560 --> 3:25:41.600 will have to somehow rectify that condition. They talk about 3:25:41.640 --> 3:25:42.840 treatments a little bit in this, So now it's on 3:25:42.879 --> 3:25:44.280 which you can read if you want, not going to 3:25:44.320 --> 3:25:46.440 read them out for you, but this will very clearly 3:25:46.680 --> 3:25:49.800 target black service people the most, and I don't think 3:25:49.840 --> 3:25:53.040 that's a coincidence. And as we see from the picture 3:25:53.160 --> 3:25:57.080 of the black soldiers shaving in the in the release 3:25:57.160 --> 3:25:59.720 that they sent out there, this is happening at the 3:25:59.720 --> 3:26:01.560 same time as arrested his stuff, right, and at the 3:26:01.560 --> 3:26:05.000 same time as we've seen trans folks removed from the military. 3:26:05.360 --> 3:26:08.360 As heg Theft, seems to be going pretty hard on 3:26:08.520 --> 3:26:13.760 removing women from combat roles. He's previously been more out 3:26:14.200 --> 3:26:16.240 right in that this time he's in his speech he 3:26:16.360 --> 3:26:18.240 was talking about how women, if they could meet the 3:26:18.280 --> 3:26:21.520 same standards as men, would be welcoming combat roles, but 3:26:21.600 --> 3:26:25.560 they wouldn't quote unquote lower the standards. The whole thing 3:26:25.640 --> 3:26:28.560 was pretty remarkable to see, heg Theft lecturing, you know, 3:26:28.640 --> 3:26:33.800 people who have spent collectively maybe hundreds of years in combat. 3:26:33.560 --> 3:26:38.600 Right, people have spent decades losing wars. Yeah yeah, decades 3:26:38.680 --> 3:26:40.119 of period of time. 3:26:40.400 --> 3:26:44.160 Yeah yeah, I mean centuries between them, right, But explaining 3:26:44.240 --> 3:26:48.280 how warfare works to people who have vastly more experience 3:26:48.360 --> 3:26:51.760 in it than him, yes, and basically telling them it's 3:26:51.840 --> 3:26:55.520 not a myth that we haven't seen from fascist states before. Right, 3:26:55.840 --> 3:26:57.960 the soldiers were fine, but they were betrayed by the 3:26:58.000 --> 3:27:01.920 politicians in the generals. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is nothing new. Yeah, 3:27:01.959 --> 3:27:04.400 but it was still kind of remarkable to see Heigfast 3:27:04.600 --> 3:27:06.599 delivering it to the generals. 3:27:06.320 --> 3:27:09.240 And specifically, both he and Trump made statements about if 3:27:09.360 --> 3:27:11.960 the generals and animals do not like what Trump and 3:27:12.000 --> 3:27:15.800 Heksa were saying, they should just resign, they should just leave. 3:27:16.400 --> 3:27:19.120 I've never walked into a room so silent before. This 3:27:19.320 --> 3:27:22.080 is very don't laugh, don't life if you're not allowed 3:27:22.160 --> 3:27:24.760 to do that, you know what, Just have a good time, 3:27:25.240 --> 3:27:27.920 and if you want to applaud, you applaud. And if 3:27:27.959 --> 3:27:29.880 you want to do anything you want, you can do 3:27:29.959 --> 3:27:31.959 anything you want. And if you don't like what I'm saying, 3:27:31.959 --> 3:27:34.360 you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank, 3:27:34.400 --> 3:27:40.080 there goes your future. But you just feel nice and loose, okay, 3:27:40.240 --> 3:27:41.680 because we're all on the same team. 3:27:43.120 --> 3:27:45.920 Part of this is because Trump just wants more loyalists 3:27:46.080 --> 3:27:49.440 in the upper grass of the military, like that's part 3:27:49.520 --> 3:27:51.880 of this process. That's why he doesn't want millies. He 3:27:51.879 --> 3:27:54.160 doesn't want people that will deny him. He wants just 3:27:54.280 --> 3:27:56.720 a complete loyalist government, and that includes the military. 3:27:56.920 --> 3:27:57.120 Yeah. 3:27:57.640 --> 3:28:00.040 And if that means that we're going to have a 3:28:00.040 --> 3:28:02.720 whole bunch of generals and animals resigned because of hig 3:28:02.840 --> 3:28:06.920 Seth and Trump's anti woke granting, then that's a desirable 3:28:06.959 --> 3:28:09.160 outcome for the administration at this point. 3:28:09.520 --> 3:28:09.720 Yeah. 3:28:10.600 --> 3:28:15.320 Speaking of war Chicago, Yeah. 3:28:15.400 --> 3:28:18.800 I mean the scenes that I have seen the most 3:28:18.879 --> 3:28:24.120 frequently described as war or looking like a war this week, 3:28:24.200 --> 3:28:27.000 have come out of Chicago, where on Tuesday the thirtieth, 3:28:27.120 --> 3:28:31.200 there was one of the most brutal raids that we've 3:28:31.320 --> 3:28:37.080 seen from the FEDS yet in any city. This took 3:28:37.120 --> 3:28:39.400 place in South Shore, which is a ninety percent black 3:28:39.400 --> 3:28:42.440 neighborhood on the south side of Chicago, where a whole 3:28:42.440 --> 3:28:45.560 bunch of immigrants who I don't know if people remember 3:28:45.680 --> 3:28:48.280 when Texas and a bunch of other states in the 3:28:48.360 --> 3:28:51.120 South started busting immigrants up to cities in the north. 3:28:51.200 --> 3:28:52.880 Chicago is one of the ones where that happened. A 3:28:52.959 --> 3:28:55.959 lot a lot of these people ended up in South Shore, 3:28:56.920 --> 3:29:01.400 and there was a massive rate on an apartment complex 3:29:01.600 --> 3:29:04.720 in the South Shore. Agents showed up in a combination 3:29:05.000 --> 3:29:08.359 of moving vans, sort of unmarked vans and armored vehicles 3:29:09.480 --> 3:29:12.640 it's still unclear exactly how many people were taken. We 3:29:12.760 --> 3:29:16.600 so don't know. Estimates at the time suggested about forty. 3:29:17.440 --> 3:29:19.840 It's very unclear. What we do know about the raid 3:29:19.920 --> 3:29:23.000 was that it was absolutely brutal. A bunch of a 3:29:23.040 --> 3:29:25.039 bunch of the initial reports thought that they had been shooting, 3:29:25.120 --> 3:29:26.800 but there hadn't been shooting. What there had been was 3:29:26.840 --> 3:29:30.400 that they blew into this apartment complex with flash bank grenades. 3:29:30.560 --> 3:29:33.480 Yeah, pretty common for people to mistake those two. 3:29:33.760 --> 3:29:33.960 Yeah. 3:29:34.360 --> 3:29:36.520 Yeah, and these are just you know, these are just 3:29:36.800 --> 3:29:39.440 regular people who suddenly at one in the morning, a 3:29:39.480 --> 3:29:42.480 bunch of explosions start going off. There's a whole bunch 3:29:42.520 --> 3:29:45.360 of pictures that you can see in various articles about 3:29:45.360 --> 3:29:48.840 this of doors torn off their hinges. The agents did 3:29:48.920 --> 3:29:51.279 a I think this is a classic Chicago police tactic, 3:29:51.400 --> 3:29:53.720 but you know, they just went through and just started 3:29:53.959 --> 3:29:56.600 grabbing everyone's stuff and tearing through it and throwing it 3:29:56.720 --> 3:30:01.080 onto the ground. There were black Hawk kilicops optors like 3:30:01.360 --> 3:30:06.320 constantly circling this just random apartment complex. There was a 3:30:06.400 --> 3:30:10.280 massive FBI presence alongside border patrol and ice. 3:30:10.720 --> 3:30:10.920 Yeah. 3:30:11.000 --> 3:30:14.360 It's also worth mentioning that Independent book Club Chicago, which 3:30:14.400 --> 3:30:17.680 is one of the very sort of prominent independent local 3:30:17.760 --> 3:30:20.320 media outlets. There obtained a picture from a neighbor who 3:30:20.520 --> 3:30:23.760 was like next to the raid that show Chicago Police 3:30:23.800 --> 3:30:27.000 Department on the scene, which they are there expressly forbidden 3:30:27.520 --> 3:30:31.400 like by state law from assisting in immigration enforcement. It 3:30:31.560 --> 3:30:34.440 is worth reading this article in order to see this 3:30:34.720 --> 3:30:37.880 quote quote. We did not participate in or assist with 3:30:38.000 --> 3:30:41.880 any immigration enforcement, spokesperson Maggie he Un said in a statement, 3:30:42.600 --> 3:30:45.400 followed immediately by pictures that clearly show a CPD car 3:30:45.520 --> 3:30:49.400 on the scene of this raid. Yeah, this raid is 3:30:49.480 --> 3:30:53.920 a really significant escalation of force in a cy that 3:30:54.000 --> 3:30:57.000 has I mean, I've already seen ice literally shoot someone 3:30:57.040 --> 3:31:00.440 and kill them. But yeah, I'm going to quote this 3:31:00.720 --> 3:31:03.760 from Tribe, which is another independent news outlet in collaboration 3:31:03.840 --> 3:31:07.840 with unraffled Press. Veronica Castro off the Illinois Coalition for 3:31:07.920 --> 3:31:11.520 Immigrant and Refugee Rights, at a press conference said quote, 3:31:12.040 --> 3:31:15.000 this looked like hundreds of masked agents knocking down doors 3:31:15.040 --> 3:31:17.039 and dragging families out in the middle of the night, 3:31:17.440 --> 3:31:22.640 holding babies that were unclothed. Castro added, so they are 3:31:22.720 --> 3:31:25.360 dragging people from their homes in the middle of the night, 3:31:25.480 --> 3:31:28.160 holding naked babies because people haven't had time, Like they're 3:31:28.200 --> 3:31:31.400 not giving people time to like even put clothes on something. 3:31:31.440 --> 3:31:33.280 You see a lot in the accounts of this. I'm 3:31:33.320 --> 3:31:35.680 going to read some more from an account from ABC. 3:31:37.000 --> 3:31:38.560 As I got to my unit to stick my key 3:31:38.600 --> 3:31:40.920 in the door, I was grabbed by an officer and 3:31:41.040 --> 3:31:43.320 I said, what's going on? What's going on? He never 3:31:43.400 --> 3:31:46.040 actually told me. He said I was being detained, said 3:31:46.080 --> 3:31:50.600 Alicia Books. Neighbors like Ebony Watson, say they ducked for covers, 3:31:50.680 --> 3:31:54.760 they heard several flashbangs. They was terrified. The kids was crying. 3:31:54.920 --> 3:31:58.600 People was screaming. They looked very distraught. I was out 3:31:58.640 --> 3:32:00.280 there when I seen the little girl coming out around 3:32:00.280 --> 3:32:02.480 the corner because they was bringing the kids down too, 3:32:02.959 --> 3:32:06.640 had them zip tied to each other. Watson said, that's all. 3:32:06.680 --> 3:32:10.000 I kept asking, what is the morality? Where is the 3:32:10.120 --> 3:32:14.000 human One of them literally laughed he was standing right there, 3:32:14.240 --> 3:32:18.600 he said, fucking kids. So that is what these raids 3:32:18.640 --> 3:32:21.000 are looking like now. It is again also worth noting 3:32:21.080 --> 3:32:23.720 that like this is this is a very significant escalation 3:32:23.840 --> 3:32:26.360 of force. They are zip tying children to each other 3:32:26.440 --> 3:32:27.960 as they dragged them from their homes at one in 3:32:28.000 --> 3:32:31.480 the morning and saying fucking kids. Yeah, and this also 3:32:31.680 --> 3:32:35.880 marks what seems to be a pretty large pivot away 3:32:36.120 --> 3:32:39.560 from the areas they've been targeting before, which had to 3:32:39.600 --> 3:32:42.119 be the suburbs in the outlying areas, and into very 3:32:42.360 --> 3:32:46.000 very majority, the majority black parts of Chicago. And we're 3:32:46.000 --> 3:32:49.760 gonna talk more about this next week with journalists who's 3:32:49.760 --> 3:32:52.240 been on the ground. Yeah. I mean, for example, a 3:32:52.280 --> 3:32:54.720 couple of hours before we recorded this episode. So there 3:32:54.800 --> 3:32:59.520 are sparse details, but there is a video that shows 3:32:59.600 --> 3:33:04.879 the fat just two hands on neck choking a black 3:33:04.959 --> 3:33:10.120 man in East Garfield Park. It's deeply unclear why this 3:33:10.320 --> 3:33:14.120 is happening, but they are just doing this now, and 3:33:15.120 --> 3:33:17.640 what we have so far, we don't know why they 3:33:17.680 --> 3:33:18.920 were doing this. But this is also one thing I 3:33:18.959 --> 3:33:21.760 think is very alarming. This is also reported by Tribe. 3:33:21.760 --> 3:33:24.080 There is a video from the scene where an agent 3:33:24.600 --> 3:33:27.040 is recorded saying, just so you guys know, this is 3:33:27.120 --> 3:33:30.080 not an immigration enforcement action. The agent goes on to 3:33:30.120 --> 3:33:33.480 say they were responding to a robbery in progress. All 3:33:33.560 --> 3:33:35.720 we know about is there was a car crash and 3:33:35.920 --> 3:33:39.640 they just started choking this guy. It's unclear exactly what's 3:33:39.680 --> 3:33:42.960 going on with this. There probably will be more details 3:33:42.959 --> 3:33:45.440 by the time this episode is going out, But the 3:33:45.520 --> 3:33:48.880 Feds are just doing this stuff every day in Chicago, 3:33:49.520 --> 3:33:52.160 I mean, just randomly choking black people on the street. 3:33:52.879 --> 3:33:56.959 And this massive, hideous raid and sashore are pretty significant 3:33:57.080 --> 3:34:00.600 escalations in places that haven't been targeting before or and 3:34:00.879 --> 3:34:03.760 it's and it's hard to see this ending anytime soon 3:34:04.160 --> 3:34:07.720 or there you know, things getting any better from here, 3:34:07.920 --> 3:34:11.360 especially with the sort of you know, as you were 3:34:11.400 --> 3:34:13.320 mentioning earlier, there hasn't been really any sign of like 3:34:13.360 --> 3:34:16.800 an intensification in federal violence in Portland, but in Chicago 3:34:17.920 --> 3:34:22.080 there absolutely has been. And yeah, it's horrible. 3:34:23.360 --> 3:34:26.680 Yeah, So talking of intensification of federal activity, I guess 3:34:27.080 --> 3:34:30.400 according to a notice posted in the Federal Register, DHS 3:34:30.600 --> 3:34:36.400 is going to use the Cultural, Environmental and Historical Protection 3:34:36.760 --> 3:34:39.360 Waiver that we reported about that came out this spring 3:34:40.000 --> 3:34:43.000 to fall through wall construction in the San Diego sector. 3:34:43.520 --> 3:34:48.920 I am guessing that in part we will see this 3:34:49.440 --> 3:34:52.400 used to wave one of the one of the acts 3:34:52.440 --> 3:34:55.080 that is where it's the Native American Graves Protection and 3:34:55.160 --> 3:34:59.680 Repatriation Act. And I'm guessing in part that this will 3:34:59.720 --> 3:35:04.160 be used to waive that right because Kumei ancestors are 3:35:04.240 --> 3:35:07.280 in these areas and in at the end tail end 3:35:07.320 --> 3:35:10.320 of the previous Trump administration. I reported on this for Sierra, 3:35:10.440 --> 3:35:13.440 which is a magazine of the Sierra Club. Kumii people 3:35:13.600 --> 3:35:17.160 were using ceremony. So they were participating in ceremony every 3:35:17.360 --> 3:35:22.760 day at construction sites in order to slow down the clock, 3:35:23.760 --> 3:35:26.120 and they also filed a lawsuit. Right, But they were 3:35:26.120 --> 3:35:28.119 trying to basically run out the clock on the Trump administration. 3:35:28.200 --> 3:35:33.120 In twenty twenty, they successfully in some areas prevented some construction, 3:35:33.400 --> 3:35:36.640 but with the waiver of nagpray, it's hard to see 3:35:37.040 --> 3:35:39.760 how they will be able to do that. They also 3:35:40.600 --> 3:35:43.600 wave a bunch of other acts that Eagle Protection Act, 3:35:43.680 --> 3:35:47.720 Environmental microturt Bird Treatise, a bunch of other acts. 3:35:47.840 --> 3:35:47.960 Right. 3:35:48.480 --> 3:35:51.800 This comes on the same week as Secretary of War 3:35:52.240 --> 3:35:57.360 headthst restored medals of honor to soldiers at Wounded Knee. 3:35:58.200 --> 3:36:00.720 If people are not familiar, this is the episode where 3:36:00.720 --> 3:36:02.560 I do a history of things sort of happened at 3:36:02.600 --> 3:36:05.880 Wounded Ney Creek. But this was the largest mass shooting 3:36:05.920 --> 3:36:06.640 in US history. 3:36:06.920 --> 3:36:07.840 This was just a slaughter. 3:36:08.160 --> 3:36:11.440 Yeah, hundreds of unarmed Lacachas. Civilians were murdered by the 3:36:11.600 --> 3:36:13.280 United States military in the battle. 3:36:13.360 --> 3:36:14.480 This was just a massacre. 3:36:14.720 --> 3:36:18.760 There were significant casualties for the US military, most of 3:36:18.840 --> 3:36:22.280 them were caused by the US military, a friendly fire 3:36:22.360 --> 3:36:26.040 and a completely disorganized slaughter of civilians. There was a 3:36:26.120 --> 3:36:29.200 standoff at Wounded Ney later in the nineteen seventies in 3:36:29.280 --> 3:36:32.720 which two Indigenous people died one went missing. You can 3:36:32.840 --> 3:36:35.760 read Mary brave Bird's book about that if you want 3:36:35.760 --> 3:36:38.560 a first hand of cautfet. It's very good book. But yeah, 3:36:38.720 --> 3:36:41.840 Hegseth is doing this, I think because Lloyd Austin had 3:36:41.840 --> 3:36:45.840 previously ordered a review of those medals because they weren't fighting, 3:36:46.440 --> 3:36:49.360 they were just killing people. Therefore, it makes sense, you know, 3:36:49.480 --> 3:36:52.320 that led to to strip these these medals of honor, 3:36:52.440 --> 3:36:54.480 in that there was very little honor in what they did. 3:36:54.800 --> 3:36:57.920 Hegseth has restored those very amusingly. He said, this is final, 3:36:58.120 --> 3:37:01.200 like another sec def couldn't just order review like in 3:37:01.320 --> 3:37:05.640 four years and change it again. CBP has also issued 3:37:05.640 --> 3:37:08.160 a request for comments here in San Diego about its 3:37:08.200 --> 3:37:11.440 plans to build seven point six miles of wall west 3:37:11.480 --> 3:37:14.360 of Dakat, as well as one point three miles of 3:37:14.440 --> 3:37:17.920 wall east of Dakat, more secondary barrier east of O 3:37:18.080 --> 3:37:22.640 tim Mesa, and install or maintain fifty one miles of 3:37:22.800 --> 3:37:26.840 quote barrier system attributes, which may include fiber uptic cables, 3:37:26.959 --> 3:37:31.040 lighting poles, artificial lights, power cables, surveillance cameras, access and 3:37:31.120 --> 3:37:35.920 patrol roads, and utility shelters. What this would do. I 3:37:36.000 --> 3:37:37.920 think most people who haven't spent time at the border 3:37:37.920 --> 3:37:40.040 in not aware that there are vast gaps in the 3:37:40.120 --> 3:37:44.119 border wall right, and this would close some of those. 3:37:44.440 --> 3:37:47.920 There are still gaps east of this area. When a 3:37:47.959 --> 3:37:49.680 lot of people were entering in twenty twenty three, they 3:37:49.720 --> 3:37:52.280 were coming east of here in a more mountainous area. 3:37:52.640 --> 3:37:56.600 But this will close existing gaps in the wall around Takata, 3:37:56.640 --> 3:38:00.400 around Marin Valley. I imagine that after that they will 3:38:00.440 --> 3:38:04.199 continue to move east the areas where there are gaps. 3:38:04.640 --> 3:38:06.040 Some of the areas where their gaps, for the rest 3:38:06.040 --> 3:38:08.480 aren't that hard to access. Some of them would be 3:38:08.720 --> 3:38:13.160 very hard to access with construction machinery, and therefore they'd 3:38:13.200 --> 3:38:15.160 have to spend a long time building a road before 3:38:15.160 --> 3:38:19.920 they could even begin building the wall. Reuters has conducted 3:38:20.000 --> 3:38:23.200 a review of more than two million court records and 3:38:23.400 --> 3:38:27.000 concluded that federal prosecution of drug cases, especially those of 3:38:27.080 --> 3:38:31.800 high profile traffickers, have dropped to the lowest level in decades. 3:38:32.120 --> 3:38:35.959 Fell forward again a Ward, Yeah, yeah, I mean normally 3:38:36.080 --> 3:38:40.880 you would see things like racketeering, money laundering, conspiracy charges, right, 3:38:41.200 --> 3:38:43.440 but these are down twenty four percent compared to last year. 3:38:44.080 --> 3:38:48.039 Even ongoing investigations have stalled as a federal law enforcement 3:38:48.080 --> 3:38:51.200 apparatus is focusing the vast majority of its people on 3:38:51.360 --> 3:38:53.640 deporting people who have not been accused of any crime. 3:38:53.920 --> 3:38:56.440 Really, and even just like the regular FBI investigative capacity, 3:38:56.440 --> 3:39:00.600 it has been shifted massive large extents towards just immigration enforcement. 3:39:00.959 --> 3:39:03.880 So they're not they're actually just not going after as 3:39:03.959 --> 3:39:05.320 much like actual crime. 3:39:06.280 --> 3:39:06.480 Yeah. 3:39:06.560 --> 3:39:09.960 I think some agencies, like the Bureau of Alcohol to 3:39:10.040 --> 3:39:12.200 Back of Firearms and Explosive for example, I think have 3:39:12.320 --> 3:39:17.040 the majority of their agents tasked to immigration raids right now. 3:39:17.240 --> 3:39:20.560 The FBI one agent described what he had been tasked 3:39:20.600 --> 3:39:25.959 with as quote photo op bullshit, which was taking photos 3:39:26.000 --> 3:39:28.480 of their teams on and before raids for use by 3:39:28.560 --> 3:39:32.000 the ADF and the White House in social media posts. 3:39:33.160 --> 3:39:35.920 So they do appear to have I've lost the support 3:39:36.000 --> 3:39:40.240 of even some federal law enforcement. Talking of federal law enforcement, 3:39:40.520 --> 3:39:43.400 we have also learned this week about an FBI operation 3:39:43.520 --> 3:39:47.640 during the Biden administration during which Tom Homan allegedly accepted 3:39:47.720 --> 3:39:51.720 fifty thousand dollars in cash. What you didn't hear about 3:39:51.720 --> 3:39:58.360 the Tom Homan back? What a joy to be able 3:39:58.400 --> 3:40:00.840 to share this with You tell me going to get better? 3:40:01.000 --> 3:40:05.160 Just just keep it, keep sim adown a Simma down, 3:40:06.600 --> 3:40:10.560 Sima down, Sima down. So Tom Homan, for those who 3:40:10.560 --> 3:40:13.520 are not familiar, is Trump's borders are and a longtime 3:40:13.560 --> 3:40:16.879 border security official dating back to the biad administration. Let's 3:40:16.920 --> 3:40:19.800 find out about how they got on to Tom Homan. 3:40:21.120 --> 3:40:23.160 Said that there was fifty do dollars in cash, but. 3:40:23.600 --> 3:40:28.040 For what Just wait, wait, wait, wait wait another Obama 3:40:28.200 --> 3:40:32.400 era I stuffer. Julian Calderas, who agents undercover agents had 3:40:32.440 --> 3:40:36.240 contacted as part of a separate investigation, repeatedly suggested to 3:40:36.320 --> 3:40:39.040 the agents that they may wish to bribe Homan in 3:40:39.200 --> 3:40:45.080 order to obtain government contracts. Cayl Deris repeatedly suggested this 3:40:45.200 --> 3:40:48.959 to the undercover agents, so much so that they diverted 3:40:48.959 --> 3:40:52.800 their investigation and set up this investigation. They gave home 3:40:52.840 --> 3:40:55.680 and the money, but waited to see what he would 3:40:55.879 --> 3:40:59.680 do in office in order to see I guess they 3:40:59.720 --> 3:41:01.879 felt would have a stronger case if he came back 3:41:01.879 --> 3:41:03.360 to them and said, you know, I have these five 3:41:03.440 --> 3:41:06.600 federal contracts, which one would you like? The Trump DOJ 3:41:06.760 --> 3:41:10.480 took no further steps to investigate and has closed the investigation. 3:41:10.560 --> 3:41:13.600 According to NBC, the Trump administration is claiming this was 3:41:13.640 --> 3:41:16.040 a set up by the FBI. But of course the 3:41:16.080 --> 3:41:20.840 investigation occurred in September of twenty four, so before the election. Again, 3:41:20.920 --> 3:41:23.160 it was not an investigation that they started on. It 3:41:23.280 --> 3:41:27.879 branched off because Carderus repeatedly suggested that they should continue 3:41:27.920 --> 3:41:32.720 to they should try and bribe home. The agents who 3:41:32.800 --> 3:41:35.400 did this operation were posing as businessman trying to get 3:41:35.480 --> 3:41:40.280 government contracts. Right, This might explain so Homan was a 3:41:40.320 --> 3:41:43.960 big time Trump affiliate, right, big time Trump supporting people 3:41:44.000 --> 3:41:48.200 were suggesting that he might be made Secretary of Homeland Security. 3:41:49.080 --> 3:41:52.360 This might be why we will never know official right, 3:41:52.720 --> 3:41:55.120 This might explain why he's been given a slightly less 3:41:55.200 --> 3:41:58.160 formal role which I don't believe he has to pass 3:41:58.200 --> 3:42:00.320 through Congress, which is quite unquote border CZA. 3:42:01.080 --> 3:42:05.480 This is like the level of normalized corruption which exists 3:42:05.520 --> 3:42:09.360 in every level of this administration is like remember when 3:42:09.560 --> 3:42:12.040 they just could not stop talking about Hunter hide In. 3:42:12.120 --> 3:42:15.600 It's like every all the time. And meanwhile you have like, 3:42:16.000 --> 3:42:18.200 like you know, like all of like Jared Kushner's dealings 3:42:18.240 --> 3:42:22.280 with like Saudi. Is the Tomhoman getting fifty thousand dollars 3:42:22.920 --> 3:42:26.520 in cash, Yeah, like undercover and he's just posing us 3:42:26.560 --> 3:42:30.440 businessman to help obtain like government contracts. It's like an 3:42:30.480 --> 3:42:33.040 absurd comical cartoon world. 3:42:33.240 --> 3:42:35.360 So it's Keystone cop shit. We don't know if he's 3:42:35.400 --> 3:42:36.440 given the cash back. 3:42:36.840 --> 3:42:42.640 Oh that cash is oh god, so much cocaine. Like 3:42:43.480 --> 3:42:47.400 I could either confirm her today it was spent on cocaine. Yeah, 3:42:47.520 --> 3:42:49.400 a wild instance of corruption. Oh God. 3:42:50.440 --> 3:42:54.120 Finally, I want to talk about Venezuela. In Venezuela, it 3:42:54.160 --> 3:42:56.640 seems that Stephen Miller has been taking the lead on 3:42:56.760 --> 3:42:59.680 strikes on a leged drug smugglers. According to a Guardian piece, 3:43:00.040 --> 3:43:03.560 the strikes have been authorized by the Homeland Security count. Sure, 3:43:04.160 --> 3:43:07.000 that's a body that Miller leaves, which has massively grown 3:43:07.040 --> 3:43:10.680 and influence since the Trump administration. It seems like most 3:43:10.720 --> 3:43:12.760 people in the administration were pretty much kept in the 3:43:12.879 --> 3:43:17.640 dark about this until very shortly before the strike took place. 3:43:18.400 --> 3:43:21.120 They were just fined under the Article two Powers, which 3:43:21.200 --> 3:43:23.440 give the president authority to use force in limited self 3:43:23.480 --> 3:43:27.920 defense engagements. But it seems like Miller is pardoned the 3:43:27.959 --> 3:43:32.119 pun driving the ship on this increased violence that we're 3:43:32.120 --> 3:43:33.200 seeing against Venezuela. 3:43:45.879 --> 3:43:50.480 All right, br back for our final story this episode, 3:43:50.560 --> 3:43:56.520 We're going to talk about the National Security Presidential Memorandums 3:43:56.680 --> 3:44:02.920 number seven, titled Countering Domestic Terrorism and Organized Political Violence, 3:44:03.600 --> 3:44:06.640 which was signed by President Donald Trump on Thursday, September 3:44:06.800 --> 3:44:12.200 twenty fifth. This relates in many ways to the Antifa 3:44:12.480 --> 3:44:15.920 Domestic Terrorism Executive Order from last week, but this memo 3:44:16.000 --> 3:44:19.520 is a lot more clear in outlining actual policy changes 3:44:19.840 --> 3:44:23.680 that will affect law enforcement investigations. So let's go over 3:44:24.360 --> 3:44:28.280 the four sections of this very, very long memo. I've 3:44:28.320 --> 3:44:30.200 tried to condense it down as much as possible, but 3:44:30.400 --> 3:44:31.959 there is some good information in here too. 3:44:32.080 --> 3:44:32.240 Now. 3:44:32.640 --> 3:44:35.520 Section one asserts that there's been an increase in political 3:44:35.600 --> 3:44:39.160 violence in recent years, with assassinations and quote unquote riots 3:44:39.200 --> 3:44:41.960 in Los Angeles and Portland, which have resulted into more 3:44:42.000 --> 3:44:45.280 than one thousand percent increase in attacks against ice officers 3:44:45.320 --> 3:44:48.560 since Trump's inauguration two point zero. The memo states that 3:44:48.720 --> 3:44:52.880 riots and violence aren't organic events or isolated incidents, but 3:44:53.000 --> 3:44:57.800 in fact, quote a culmination of a sophisticated organized campaigns 3:44:58.240 --> 3:45:01.560 of targeted intimidation, radical threats and violence design to silence 3:45:01.560 --> 3:45:05.119 of posting speech, limit political activity, change or direct policy outcomes, 3:45:05.320 --> 3:45:08.519 and prevent the functioning of a democratic society. 3:45:09.120 --> 3:45:09.480 Quote. 3:45:10.080 --> 3:45:13.320 We've spoken about the statistic about attacks and ice officers 3:45:13.360 --> 3:45:15.080 before and how that's very misleading. 3:45:15.760 --> 3:45:18.280 Yeah, I mean an ICE officer is attacked when of 3:45:18.840 --> 3:45:24.480 ice officer's fist encounters the face of a child, Right, that's. 3:45:24.160 --> 3:45:29.040 Yeah, Latino grandmother, Yes, uh, Latina grandmother in that case. 3:45:29.360 --> 3:45:31.920 Well, and a lot of this talking about, you know, 3:45:32.160 --> 3:45:34.560 riots is not organized events or us at an incidents. 3:45:34.600 --> 3:45:37.040 What they describe here is this like a culmination of 3:45:37.080 --> 3:45:40.600 the sophisticated campaign. This is just describing like the process 3:45:40.760 --> 3:45:43.600 of like what protesting is, right, trying to direct or 3:45:43.760 --> 3:45:46.680 change policy outcomes, which comes up a lot in these 3:45:46.720 --> 3:45:49.880 like domestic terrorism laws, which when over applied to just 3:45:50.080 --> 3:45:54.760 nonviolent acts of speech, just start infringing upon very standard 3:45:54.800 --> 3:45:55.760 First Amendment activity. 3:45:55.800 --> 3:45:58.600 It's one of the five fundamental freedoms of the First Amendment. 3:45:58.720 --> 3:46:00.600 Right like the right to assemble the it was several 3:46:00.640 --> 3:46:02.440 of them, actually, the right to assemble, the right to speak, 3:46:02.440 --> 3:46:05.120 the right to petition the government like these are fundamental. 3:46:05.240 --> 3:46:07.640 The right to twitch stream at a riot as a 3:46:07.720 --> 3:46:08.840 free member of the press. 3:46:08.879 --> 3:46:12.280 Yeah, definitely, that's not a right that I choose to exercise, 3:46:12.400 --> 3:46:15.520 but I guess it is one that exists. But you 3:46:15.640 --> 3:46:17.200 and I have you were important and I was in 3:46:17.280 --> 3:46:20.119 Los Angeles. Like the idea that these cities were fundamentally 3:46:20.240 --> 3:46:22.640 like damaged by these protests, it's just not true. 3:46:22.920 --> 3:46:25.440 Well, and they're not just talking about damage from riots, 3:46:25.640 --> 3:46:29.320 they're also talking about, you know, effects on individual citizens. 3:46:29.440 --> 3:46:32.720 This memo describes how these you know, organized campaigns start 3:46:32.800 --> 3:46:37.200 by quote isolating and dehumanizing specific targets to justify murder 3:46:37.440 --> 3:46:41.640 or other violent action unquote, claiming that this process happens 3:46:41.680 --> 3:46:46.440 across quote anonymous chat forums, in person meetings, the social media, 3:46:46.520 --> 3:46:50.359 and even educational institutions. These campaigns then escalate to organized 3:46:50.400 --> 3:46:54.279 docsing with the explicit intent of encouraging others to harass, intimidate, 3:46:54.600 --> 3:46:57.200 or violently assault targets en quote. 3:46:57.959 --> 3:47:01.640 I mean, this is what the Right has done to 3:47:02.320 --> 3:47:06.520 like exp especially migrants and trand people right for for 3:47:06.560 --> 3:47:09.800 a very long time. Anonymous chat forums And do they 3:47:09.879 --> 3:47:15.080 mean a Reddit credits telegram maybe, yeah, I know, I 3:47:15.200 --> 3:47:20.240 know that some subreddits have been closed since the issuing 3:47:20.320 --> 3:47:25.640 of this memorandum, which I'm wondering if it is related. 3:47:25.600 --> 3:47:27.880 Not explicitly, but like I think this memos would be 3:47:28.240 --> 3:47:30.400 in this section like referring to things I can't to 3:47:30.760 --> 3:47:32.720 ice watch, Okay, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of 3:47:32.800 --> 3:47:35.520 sense as well as you know standard like you know, 3:47:35.760 --> 3:47:40.280 anti fasted action against like legitimate neo Nazis, which yeah, 3:47:40.560 --> 3:47:43.359 the Right is not against a doxing as a practice, 3:47:43.360 --> 3:47:46.040 as we have seen a few weeks with the state 3:47:46.080 --> 3:47:50.560 sponsored organized doxing harassment campaigns against people for their comments 3:47:51.080 --> 3:47:52.480 about the death of Charlie Kirk. 3:47:53.000 --> 3:47:53.200 Yeah. 3:47:53.480 --> 3:47:55.440 The memo goes on to list a collection of quote 3:47:55.520 --> 3:48:00.720 common recurrent motivations and indica or indicators that unite this 3:48:00.840 --> 3:48:03.920 pattern of violence and terroristic activities under the umbrella of 3:48:04.080 --> 3:48:10.080 self described anti fascism. These movements portray foundational American principles 3:48:10.120 --> 3:48:13.720 support for law enforcement and border control as fascist to 3:48:13.959 --> 3:48:18.000 justify and encourage acts of a violent revolution common threads 3:48:18.160 --> 3:48:24.640 animating this violent conduct include anti Americanism, anti capitalism, anti Christianity, 3:48:25.000 --> 3:48:27.520 support for the overthrow of the United States government, extremism 3:48:27.600 --> 3:48:31.360 on migration, race and gender, and hostility towards those who 3:48:31.480 --> 3:48:36.840 hold traditional American views on family, religion, and morality. So 3:48:36.959 --> 3:48:39.000 in so far as this memo has been reported, it's 3:48:39.040 --> 3:48:44.679 mostly been on this specific section here, listing the indicators 3:48:45.560 --> 3:48:48.880 that could be driving terroristic acts under the umbrella of 3:48:49.040 --> 3:48:53.000 anti fascism, including all of these beliefs that people are 3:48:53.320 --> 3:48:56.200 allowed to hold in the United States due to the 3:48:56.440 --> 3:48:58.040 rights granted to us and the Bill of Rights in 3:48:58.040 --> 3:48:58.560 the Constitution. 3:48:58.920 --> 3:49:01.760 Yeah, I mean that the hypocrisy is the point, and 3:49:01.800 --> 3:49:03.480 it's sometimes not worth it. It's not a point, but 3:49:03.840 --> 3:49:05.920 it's not particularly you know, it doesn't change anything I'm 3:49:05.920 --> 3:49:07.360 pointing out, But I will just point out that like 3:49:07.440 --> 3:49:11.080 the idea that border control is a foundational American principle 3:49:11.200 --> 3:49:13.720 is not true. That it was not until the Chinese 3:49:13.800 --> 3:49:16.840 Exclusion Act that the United States began to exclude anyone 3:49:17.240 --> 3:49:19.320 from coming here, and that was in the nineteenth century. 3:49:19.640 --> 3:49:24.080 History understanders will have noticed that the United States began 3:49:24.160 --> 3:49:27.320 at some point before the nineteenth century. 3:49:27.600 --> 3:49:30.920 One thing I will say regarding like this section, some 3:49:31.280 --> 3:49:34.080 reporting around this memo is framing things like you know, 3:49:34.480 --> 3:49:37.480 anti capitalism or anti Christianity is now that is going 3:49:37.520 --> 3:49:40.240 to be used as evidence that you are a terrorist. 3:49:41.120 --> 3:49:43.800 That is not the explicit way is written about in 3:49:44.000 --> 3:49:48.120 this memo. These are indicators which if some investigator sees 3:49:48.200 --> 3:49:51.440 on a Twitter account or a blue Sky account, could 3:49:51.480 --> 3:49:54.560 then cause them to investigate further into this person or group. 3:49:55.200 --> 3:49:58.720 But it's not like just expressing these things will itself 3:49:59.320 --> 3:50:02.040 deem you terrorist and be putting you in jail. 3:50:02.080 --> 3:50:04.520 And this does rely on action. 3:50:04.880 --> 3:50:06.720 Now, the memo does go on to talk about trying 3:50:06.720 --> 3:50:10.320 to prevent crime before it happens. I think this would 3:50:10.320 --> 3:50:12.400 be more in the way of how the FBI tries 3:50:12.480 --> 3:50:15.240 to set up like sting operations or catch people who 3:50:15.280 --> 3:50:18.520 are planning a violent act before they actually do it, 3:50:19.160 --> 3:50:21.200 as we've even seen the past few weeks with people 3:50:21.240 --> 3:50:26.640 being arrested for planning retaliation attacks following the death of 3:50:26.720 --> 3:50:27.320 Charlie Kirk. 3:50:27.480 --> 3:50:29.720 This has happened now. 3:50:29.840 --> 3:50:33.440 The memo calls for a new national law enforcement strategy 3:50:33.480 --> 3:50:37.320 to quote investigate all participants in these criminal and terroristic 3:50:37.480 --> 3:50:42.680 conspiracies and disrupt networks, entities and organizations that foment political violence, 3:50:42.680 --> 3:50:46.840 so that law enforcement can intervene in criminal conspiracies before 3:50:46.960 --> 3:50:50.880 they result in violent political acts unquote. So that is 3:50:51.000 --> 3:50:55.200 the pre crime aspect of this order, which they could 3:50:55.360 --> 3:50:59.200 use some of these beliefs like extremism on migration or 3:50:59.520 --> 3:51:03.760 race or gender, or anti americanism as justification to start 3:51:03.880 --> 3:51:09.120 investigating groups, which then arrests could follow prior to imminent 3:51:09.320 --> 3:51:12.520 violent act as deemed by federal law enforcement. 3:51:13.120 --> 3:51:13.320 Yeah. 3:51:13.560 --> 3:51:16.360 I mean, in theory, the role of the effectially federal 3:51:16.440 --> 3:51:19.320 law enforcement has always been to investigate people who were 3:51:19.360 --> 3:51:23.000 planning violent or terroristic acts. The difference here is that 3:51:23.080 --> 3:51:26.720 this is being specifically framed around a certain group, and 3:51:27.040 --> 3:51:30.440 this probably will lead to more attempts by their more 3:51:30.560 --> 3:51:33.600 surveillance on people within exactly groups. 3:51:33.720 --> 3:51:37.080 Right now, this is very worrying in terms of like surveillance, 3:51:37.320 --> 3:51:41.040 suppressing speech, chilling speech, because what they're qualifying as violent 3:51:41.120 --> 3:51:44.400 or terroristic acts is just ordinary protest activity first, mental 3:51:44.400 --> 3:51:50.440 protest activity, non government organizations that support progressive causes or values. 3:51:51.120 --> 3:51:53.280 That's the real concern here. 3:51:53.600 --> 3:51:57.560 It's worth stating here that in Los Angeles, for example, 3:51:57.600 --> 3:52:00.720 a number of grandeuries did not return indictment of people 3:52:00.760 --> 3:52:04.760 who were accused of quite serious crimes that the grand 3:52:04.840 --> 3:52:07.240 jury did not think it was reasonable to indict them 3:52:07.280 --> 3:52:11.800 for right. This is unusual. Most federal prosecutions do result 3:52:11.960 --> 3:52:14.200 ultimately in a guilty plea right because they bring very 3:52:14.240 --> 3:52:17.480 strong cases when they bring them that It's worth noting 3:52:17.560 --> 3:52:22.360 that the specifically, like the US Attorney's Office in Los Angeles, 3:52:22.520 --> 3:52:24.360 has not struck the landing on all of its attempts 3:52:24.400 --> 3:52:27.040 to indict people for things that they did during that 3:52:27.160 --> 3:52:28.440 time of protest in June. 3:52:29.120 --> 3:52:32.880 In terms of like implementation, the memo says, quote, law 3:52:32.960 --> 3:52:37.880 enforcement will disband and uproot networks, entities and organizations that 3:52:38.080 --> 3:52:42.680 promote organized violence, violent intimidation, conspiracies against rights, and other 3:52:43.040 --> 3:52:48.600 efforts to disrupt the functioning of a democratic society unquote networks, 3:52:48.960 --> 3:52:54.640 entities organizations. These refer to like established organizations like actual 3:52:54.840 --> 3:52:58.240 like formed groups that have political activity. 3:52:59.120 --> 3:52:59.240 Now. 3:52:59.360 --> 3:53:02.960 Section two lines how the National Joint Terrorism Task Force 3:53:03.280 --> 3:53:08.360 will quote unquote coordinate and supervise a new comprehensive national 3:53:08.440 --> 3:53:12.400 strategy and orders the local Joint Terrorism Task Force around 3:53:12.440 --> 3:53:17.040 the country to quote investigate potential federal crimes relating to 3:53:17.160 --> 3:53:20.720 acts of recruiting or radicalizing persons for the purpose of 3:53:21.160 --> 3:53:24.880 political violence, terrorism, conspiracy against rights, or the violent deprivation 3:53:25.320 --> 3:53:30.960 of any citizens' rights unquote. The GDTFS Joint Terrorism Task 3:53:31.040 --> 3:53:36.960 Force will also investigate institutional and individual funders, including employees 3:53:37.000 --> 3:53:41.600 of organizations which are quote responsible for sponsor or otherwise 3:53:41.640 --> 3:53:44.400 the AID and EVET the principal actors engaging in the 3:53:44.520 --> 3:53:50.520 criminal conduct as previously described. That's a broadet, right, There's 3:53:50.520 --> 3:53:52.320 a lot of this stuff, Like the Anti for Order 3:53:52.320 --> 3:53:54.720 also alluded to this. Trump's statements made in the Oval 3:53:54.720 --> 3:53:58.920 Office have alluded to this going after funders, foreign funders, 3:53:59.000 --> 3:54:02.960 whether that's the groups like the ACLU or like bail funds. 3:54:03.720 --> 3:54:08.280 They mentioned George sorows very often. Yeah, the Open Society Foundation, right, Yeah. 3:54:08.560 --> 3:54:11.120 I think the right has had a fascination with sorrows 3:54:11.120 --> 3:54:13.160 for a long time. Right, They've been looking for a 3:54:13.400 --> 3:54:17.280 reason to either exclude sorrows from participation in US politics 3:54:17.320 --> 3:54:19.480 and just to be like obviously I think most people 3:54:19.560 --> 3:54:22.880 realize this, but that that fascination is rooted deeply in antisemitism. 3:54:23.000 --> 3:54:26.480 George Soros is a Holocaust survivor, and there has been 3:54:26.600 --> 3:54:30.320 like an attempt to find reasons to exclude sorrows from 3:54:30.360 --> 3:54:33.200 from US political activity for some time. I think it's 3:54:33.240 --> 3:54:34.520 reasonable to see this in that trend. 3:54:35.120 --> 3:54:37.960 This sort of like big organizations foreign organizations is also 3:54:38.000 --> 3:54:40.720 mentioned in this memo and saying the investigation will include 3:54:41.080 --> 3:54:45.560 NGOs and American citizens with foreign ties that could be 3:54:45.680 --> 3:54:49.160 in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act or quote 3:54:49.400 --> 3:54:52.440 money laundering by funding, creating, or supporting entities that engage 3:54:52.440 --> 3:54:56.400 in activities that support or courage domestic terrorism unquote. The 3:54:56.480 --> 3:55:00.200 memo states that the Attorney General shall issue guidance which 3:55:00.280 --> 3:55:05.240 ensures that domestic terrorism priorities include quote politically motivated terrorist 3:55:05.400 --> 3:55:12.720 acts such as organized doxing campaigns, swatting, rioting, looting, trespass, assault, 3:55:12.960 --> 3:55:16.320 damage of property, threats of violence, and civil disorder. The 3:55:16.360 --> 3:55:20.080 guides shall also include an identification of any behaviors, fact patterns, 3:55:20.160 --> 3:55:24.360 recurrent motivations, or other indica common to organizations and entities 3:55:24.360 --> 3:55:26.520 that coordinate these acts, in order to direct efforts to 3:55:26.560 --> 3:55:28.560 identify and prevent potential violent activity. 3:55:28.640 --> 3:55:29.000 Unquote. 3:55:29.800 --> 3:55:31.680 This is a worrying list of things that are not 3:55:31.800 --> 3:55:34.320 domestic terrorism that they're going to try to claim our 3:55:34.480 --> 3:55:40.640 domestic terrorism trespass. Yeah, like trespassing is now domestic terrorism. 3:55:41.240 --> 3:55:43.480 That's not a great thing for the Attorney General to 3:55:43.520 --> 3:55:46.760 be issuing guidance on. Yeah, civil disorder is a very 3:55:47.000 --> 3:55:51.080 broad and somewhat nebulous term, right, Like, are they gonna 3:55:51.240 --> 3:55:54.640 call the organized doxing campaigns that the right is doing 3:55:54.760 --> 3:55:58.120 right now domestic terrorism? No, of course not right, These 3:55:58.160 --> 3:56:02.240 things are just taking form for explicit like political prosecution, 3:56:02.960 --> 3:56:04.840 for the political ends of Trump administration. 3:56:05.360 --> 3:56:06.760 I think the goal here, like some of these are 3:56:06.760 --> 3:56:08.600 reason even a statue, right, Like, I'm not aware of 3:56:08.920 --> 3:56:13.960 a broad federal doxing statute aside from certain specific instances 3:56:14.000 --> 3:56:16.200 where it might be a crime to reveal someone's address. 3:56:16.920 --> 3:56:20.240 Violent intimidation of probably like federal law enforcement would be 3:56:20.360 --> 3:56:21.400 one thing that they go after. 3:56:21.880 --> 3:56:26.520 Yeah, federal law enforcement people with protective orders, that kind 3:56:26.520 --> 3:56:29.200 of thing, right, And yeah, there are probably ways of 3:56:29.320 --> 3:56:31.080 doing that, But I think a lot of this is 3:56:31.720 --> 3:56:34.640 intended to have a chilling effect on speech and organizing. 3:56:35.080 --> 3:56:38.040 Absolutely, the Treasury Secretary will work with ETERN in general 3:56:38.080 --> 3:56:40.880 to quote identify and disrupt financial networks that funded domestic 3:56:40.960 --> 3:56:44.520 terrorism and political activity, and shall deploy investigative tools examine 3:56:44.520 --> 3:56:47.120 financial flows and coordinate with partner agencies to trace illicit 3:56:47.240 --> 3:56:50.760 funding streams unquote. Again very obsessed with this idea that 3:56:50.840 --> 3:56:54.880 there's tons of money that is funding ANTIFA, which if 3:56:54.920 --> 3:56:57.720 you know anyone under the antifam umbrella, you know that 3:56:57.760 --> 3:57:01.520 they are extremely bro Yeah, yeah, this is left wing 3:57:01.640 --> 3:57:05.160 protesters are not the most financially stable budget. Yeah, there's 3:57:05.240 --> 3:57:08.760 there's not this illicit funding streams. This is a huge, 3:57:08.840 --> 3:57:11.200 a huge idea that the right has like latched on. 3:57:11.800 --> 3:57:14.800 Ironically, this is something that the right shares with the 3:57:14.840 --> 3:57:18.640 authoritarian left. Actually, the idea that people can't act independently 3:57:18.760 --> 3:57:22.280 unless there is a large, well funded actor motivating them 3:57:22.360 --> 3:57:25.480 to act is something that because the authoritarian right and 3:57:25.520 --> 3:57:28.280 the authoritarian left agree on some things, and one of 3:57:28.320 --> 3:57:31.400 them is that like people can't take the initiative to 3:57:31.600 --> 3:57:33.400 act right, that there has to be some kind of 3:57:34.040 --> 3:57:37.800 vanguard in the case of the authoritarian left, or nefarious 3:57:38.240 --> 3:57:41.000 funder in the case of the authoritarian right. And so 3:57:41.120 --> 3:57:43.200 this this lines up with the way that they understand 3:57:43.240 --> 3:57:43.600 the world. 3:57:43.880 --> 3:57:46.400 I mean yeah, and I was talking specifically here in 3:57:46.480 --> 3:57:50.680 terms of like regular people on the ground attending protests. 3:57:50.720 --> 3:57:53.600 There's like big, big groups like you know often like 3:57:53.680 --> 3:57:56.240 you know, communist line groups that may be receiving funding 3:57:56.320 --> 3:58:00.040 possibly from foreign sources. Yeah, yeah, yeah for real, But 3:58:00.680 --> 3:58:03.320 I do not believe that is what this order is, 3:58:03.440 --> 3:58:05.880 at least this section is actually wanting to go after. 3:58:06.120 --> 3:58:08.160 That might be what they in the end actually end 3:58:08.280 --> 3:58:10.520 up targeting, end up sweeping up because it's the only 3:58:10.560 --> 3:58:12.920 thing that actually has like you know, foreign funding. But 3:58:13.160 --> 3:58:16.720 like you know, capital a Antifa teenagers with like umbrellas 3:58:16.760 --> 3:58:18.600 showing up in front of an ice building are not 3:58:18.680 --> 3:58:21.360 receiving money from like Iran, China or Russia. 3:58:21.520 --> 3:58:24.960 Like, yeah, as you say, it might be large as 3:58:25.080 --> 3:58:29.760 some policy law center, the ACLU, Open Society Foundation, build. 3:58:29.600 --> 3:58:30.720 Gate Network for Strong Community. 3:58:30.840 --> 3:58:33.320 Yes, like some of these organizations might be what they're 3:58:33.400 --> 3:58:35.720 trying to drag a net over here. 3:58:36.120 --> 3:58:37.240 Or nonprofits. 3:58:37.480 --> 3:58:40.600 The next section instructs the IRS to quote take action 3:58:40.720 --> 3:58:44.400 to ensure that no tax exempt entities are directly or 3:58:44.600 --> 3:58:50.760 indirectly financing political violence or domestic terrorism unquote, and calls 3:58:50.800 --> 3:58:54.800 for the IRS to refer suspect organizations and their employees 3:58:55.040 --> 3:58:58.280 to the Department of Justice for investigation and possible prosecution. 3:58:59.000 --> 3:59:02.800 It's probably worth the context here that there was this 3:59:03.000 --> 3:59:06.120 is after a twenty ten congressional investigation that found out 3:59:06.160 --> 3:59:08.560 that the IRS had gone after some tea party groups. Right, 3:59:09.000 --> 3:59:11.040 do you remember the Tea Party? Garrison? You or seven 3:59:11.080 --> 3:59:11.560 at that time? 3:59:12.200 --> 3:59:13.600 I remember the Tea Party? 3:59:13.640 --> 3:59:18.000 Yeah, yeah, So the feeling here Biden, if you remember, 3:59:18.080 --> 3:59:21.400 Garrison also hired a number of new IRS agents. There 3:59:21.480 --> 3:59:24.120 was a conspiracy theory that these were to provide some 3:59:24.280 --> 3:59:27.600 kind of armed, massive, armed element to the IRS that 3:59:27.760 --> 3:59:31.360 was going around in the Biden administration. I'm sure the 3:59:31.440 --> 3:59:33.400 IRS had an armed element, right. There is not a 3:59:33.480 --> 3:59:37.240 federal investigative agency that doesn't, like the Postal Service has 3:59:37.320 --> 3:59:40.520 cops and probably a swat team. But there was a 3:59:40.640 --> 3:59:44.680 feeling on the right that Biden mobilized the IRS against 3:59:44.880 --> 3:59:47.760 right wing individuals, and I could see this being the 3:59:48.640 --> 3:59:50.760 old panting I'm swinging back in the other direction a 3:59:50.800 --> 3:59:51.160 little bit. 3:59:51.920 --> 3:59:56.000 One of the more interesting sections that I've highlighted of 3:59:56.040 --> 4:00:01.560 the memo instructs investigators to quote question individuals engaged in 4:00:01.640 --> 4:00:06.920 political violence or lawlessness regarding the entity or individual organizing 4:00:07.080 --> 4:00:13.120 such actions and any related financial sponsorship prior to perfect 4:00:13.120 --> 4:00:17.400 communication or initiation of a plea agreement unquote. That's directing 4:00:17.520 --> 4:00:22.120 like the interrogations of people arrested at protests, like specifically 4:00:22.240 --> 4:00:24.480 go after who's funding them to be a protest. I'm 4:00:24.480 --> 4:00:28.760 sure some very fruitful information will come out of referring 4:00:28.840 --> 4:00:32.520 back to our discussion of like, you know, the common 4:00:32.600 --> 4:00:35.760 motivators are Indica, including things you know, like anti capitalism, 4:00:35.800 --> 4:00:39.240 anti Americanism, and how those beliefs in and of themselves 4:00:39.280 --> 4:00:42.040 I do not think will be sufficient for declaring someone 4:00:42.120 --> 4:00:45.200 a terrorist and like locking them up. Is because later 4:00:45.320 --> 4:00:50.800 in this memo, the memo directs investigations to quote prioritize 4:00:51.000 --> 4:00:55.240 crimes such as the following assaulting federal officers or employees, 4:00:55.480 --> 4:00:59.080 conspiracy against rights, conspiracy to commit offense, solicitation to commit 4:00:59.160 --> 4:01:02.320 a crime of violent money laundering, funding of terrorist acts 4:01:02.400 --> 4:01:07.320 or otherwise facilitating terrorism, areson violations of the u Rico Act, 4:01:07.720 --> 4:01:08.880 and major fraud. 4:01:08.640 --> 4:01:09.800 Against the United States? 4:01:10.200 --> 4:01:15.400 Quote So could the government use these indicators to then 4:01:15.560 --> 4:01:18.720 find groups to target, to stick some of these crimes 4:01:18.880 --> 4:01:22.400 onto groups or organizations. Absolutely, that's probably what they're gonna do. 4:01:24.440 --> 4:01:27.360 But these these are the things to like be aware of, 4:01:27.920 --> 4:01:30.280 and they're gonna try to, you know, slap these on 4:01:30.440 --> 4:01:32.720 people who are just arrested at protests, people who work 4:01:32.800 --> 4:01:37.400 for NGOs, people who work for legal support networks, maybe 4:01:37.680 --> 4:01:43.040 migrant assistance networks like that's that's gonna be the target 4:01:43.200 --> 4:01:45.520 for a lot of these things. And we've seen some 4:01:45.640 --> 4:01:48.840 of these, like conspiracy charges in San Diego with their 4:01:49.200 --> 4:01:52.120 with their Antifa prosecution case. We've seen similar stuff in 4:01:52.280 --> 4:01:55.320 Atlanta with Stop cop City. Right, there is precedent for this. 4:01:55.480 --> 4:01:58.960 We've seen the state try to and to a degree 4:01:59.000 --> 4:02:02.640 of success and failure, actually push these charges forward. 4:02:03.400 --> 4:02:06.920 Yeah, the panic that those two cases created. I think 4:02:07.120 --> 4:02:10.960 we were still pre trial in the Atlantic case. 4:02:10.880 --> 4:02:12.640 Right, the trials in progress. 4:02:12.880 --> 4:02:15.640 Yeah, yeah, sorry pre uh, I guess the conclusion of 4:02:15.680 --> 4:02:16.080 that trial. 4:02:16.560 --> 4:02:19.280 But the current indication is that most of these record 4:02:19.360 --> 4:02:20.680 chargers are not going to stick. 4:02:20.800 --> 4:02:23.440 Yes, and most of the conspiracy charges in San Diego 4:02:23.520 --> 4:02:27.040 did not, right, and most of those people ended up 4:02:27.160 --> 4:02:29.200 not being convicted of all the things they were accused of. 4:02:30.440 --> 4:02:32.800 I do see the major fraud against the United States, 4:02:32.800 --> 4:02:35.400 and I think that's probably going to use against NGOs. 4:02:35.720 --> 4:02:39.280 I do also wonder they have spoken before about the 4:02:39.560 --> 4:02:43.120 Payroll Protection Plan and looking at PPP fraud. 4:02:43.480 --> 4:02:47.840 Yeah, I mean financial crimes are always are always really scary, right, like. 4:02:48.120 --> 4:02:50.960 Yeah, yeah, like a lot of nonprofits, you know, like 4:02:51.280 --> 4:02:55.440 people undoubtedly given a scaled of the PPP people abused it. 4:02:55.640 --> 4:02:59.560 I think nonprofits would be a lot more buttoned up 4:02:59.720 --> 4:03:03.080 than almost anyone else in that regard, you know, these 4:03:03.200 --> 4:03:06.920 aspectly these big liberal nonprofits. But that is an area 4:03:07.000 --> 4:03:10.160 which I'm sure that the trumpires will be looking at. 4:03:10.360 --> 4:03:12.200 Yeah, and they might even try to slap these on 4:03:12.360 --> 4:03:15.960 people making jokes or quote unquote threats online right solicitation 4:03:16.040 --> 4:03:17.360 to commit a crime of violence. 4:03:17.560 --> 4:03:20.120 Yeah, yeah, Yeah, people shouldn't be saying stupid chill on 4:03:20.200 --> 4:03:20.960 social media. 4:03:20.840 --> 4:03:23.600 Right now, which which is absolutely like a chilling speech, 4:03:23.680 --> 4:03:25.600 right that is, that's excting speech. 4:03:25.840 --> 4:03:27.040 That is a bad thing. 4:03:27.680 --> 4:03:30.600 But you don't want to give these people extra ammunition 4:03:30.680 --> 4:03:32.160 to use against yourself right now. 4:03:32.720 --> 4:03:39.040 Fighting words are not always like First Amendment speech right 4:03:39.160 --> 4:03:41.760 now now, Like I'm no expect in where that starts 4:03:41.760 --> 4:03:43.920 and where that ends. But yeah, yeah, like in terms 4:03:43.960 --> 4:03:47.440 of not doing stupid things, like this is not a 4:03:47.520 --> 4:03:50.440 time to do stupid things on your posting websit of choice. 4:03:51.120 --> 4:03:54.800 Section two closes by calling for investigators in federal police 4:03:54.800 --> 4:03:58.120 to quote adopt strategies similar to those used to address 4:03:58.120 --> 4:04:01.600 a violent crime and organized crime to disrupt and dismantle 4:04:01.760 --> 4:04:05.800 entire networks of criminal activity unquote. So yeah, especially with 4:04:05.840 --> 4:04:10.600 all this financial stuff, money laundering, rico, conspiracy charges, they're 4:04:10.640 --> 4:04:14.760 basically using or they want to use like tactics to 4:04:14.840 --> 4:04:18.360 take down like organized crime rings. Just targeting their political enemies, 4:04:19.000 --> 4:04:23.560 targeting political organizations and people who attend protests like that 4:04:23.760 --> 4:04:28.000 is that is the real gist of this memo. Section 4:04:28.080 --> 4:04:31.080 three instructs the Eterney General to designate qualifying groups or 4:04:31.280 --> 4:04:36.400 entities under investigation as domestic terrorist organizations per the definition 4:04:36.440 --> 4:04:40.480 of domestic terrorism in eighteen USC two three three one five, 4:04:41.000 --> 4:04:43.120 and to submit a list of such groups to the 4:04:43.280 --> 4:04:46.920 President of the United States. And Section four instructs the 4:04:46.920 --> 4:04:49.920 Attorney General and Secretary of Homeland Security to designate domestic 4:04:50.000 --> 4:04:53.800 terrorism a national priority area and provide extra funding for 4:04:53.920 --> 4:04:57.560 law enforcement to quote, detect, prevent, and protect against threats 4:04:57.640 --> 4:05:02.200 arising from this area. That is the bulk of the 4:05:02.320 --> 4:05:07.600 National Security Potential Memorandum number seven, promising to chill speech 4:05:07.840 --> 4:05:12.080 and go after political opponents and organizations, entities, and individuals 4:05:12.120 --> 4:05:16.440 and employees of organizations. Yeah, very very undemocratic, very very 4:05:16.520 --> 4:05:20.640 on its face authoritarian. Yeah, you don't even need like 4:05:20.800 --> 4:05:24.160 like allegations of political targeting. Like they're writing down how 4:05:24.200 --> 4:05:27.520 they want to do political targeting, they're bragging about it. 4:05:28.480 --> 4:05:30.760 It's really what briefly want to raise the example of 4:05:31.120 --> 4:05:36.720 the flag burning. Right, So Donald Trump signed an executive 4:05:36.840 --> 4:05:41.000 order ordering the Justice Department to investigate flag burning earlier 4:05:41.040 --> 4:05:45.360 this year. I can't quite remember when. Subsequently, someone called 4:05:45.480 --> 4:05:51.560 jan Carey of North Carolina was arrested after they burned 4:05:51.600 --> 4:05:54.840 a flag, an American flag. Just to be clear outside 4:05:54.880 --> 4:05:57.160 the White House, I guess the flag burning executive order 4:05:57.160 --> 4:06:00.320 doesn't apply to like you're you know, like anime flag 4:06:00.400 --> 4:06:03.000 or whatever, specifically about the flag of the United States, 4:06:03.360 --> 4:06:06.600 something which I think Johnson versus Texas is a Supreme 4:06:06.680 --> 4:06:08.640 Court case, right, but there is a considerable amount of 4:06:08.680 --> 4:06:13.120 legal precedent that is First Amendment speech. Kerry was arrested. 4:06:13.560 --> 4:06:16.440 What is being missed in the discussion is that Kerry 4:06:16.600 --> 4:06:20.320 was charged with two misdemeanor crimes. One was for lighting 4:06:20.400 --> 4:06:23.240 a fire not in a designated area and receptacle. The 4:06:23.360 --> 4:06:25.560 other was for lighting a fire in a manner that 4:06:25.640 --> 4:06:27.720 threatened to cause damage to a resulted in the burning 4:06:27.760 --> 4:06:31.240 of property, real property and park resources. These are both 4:06:31.280 --> 4:06:34.320 offensives that you can be incarcerated or fined for. I 4:06:34.720 --> 4:06:37.400 want people to know that, right, Like, he was not 4:06:37.600 --> 4:06:41.720 arrested because of the executive order, although the executive order 4:06:41.840 --> 4:06:44.960 may very much influenced the climate which led to his 4:06:45.160 --> 4:06:47.480 arrest in charge with these other things, but he wasn't 4:06:47.560 --> 4:06:50.400 charged with violating the executive order because that is not 4:06:50.600 --> 4:06:51.480 how it works. 4:06:52.120 --> 4:06:55.280 They can't change the law with executive orders or presidential memorandums. 4:06:55.480 --> 4:06:59.320 What they can do is direct how the law will 4:06:59.400 --> 4:07:03.320 be in four or policy guidelines, right, and that's what 4:07:03.600 --> 4:07:06.120 this is affecting right now. All of these branches like 4:07:06.200 --> 4:07:10.080 the DHS, Justice Department, Federal Police are going to be 4:07:10.200 --> 4:07:14.320 following the policy guidelines and outlines established in this memo 4:07:14.760 --> 4:07:17.320 to then try to enforce the laws that we have 4:07:17.720 --> 4:07:20.080 and some of which they will probably find ways to 4:07:20.200 --> 4:07:22.400 do it and sometimes they won't. 4:07:22.920 --> 4:07:25.800 Yeah, we have a very broad range of statutes criminalizing 4:07:25.840 --> 4:07:28.920 a very large range of things, and someone will find 4:07:28.960 --> 4:07:31.440 some way in there to criminalize someone for something that 4:07:31.640 --> 4:07:35.320 might seem on the face of it to be not nefarious. 4:07:36.160 --> 4:07:39.440 But that doesn't mean that we have executive legiative fusion. 4:07:39.520 --> 4:07:41.240 We don't write yourself too prior to the government, and 4:07:41.280 --> 4:07:42.520 that is important to remember too. 4:07:43.200 --> 4:07:48.840 No, no laws have been changed criminalizing anti americanism, right, Yeah, 4:07:49.000 --> 4:07:51.000 that is that it is an important thing to keep 4:07:51.040 --> 4:07:53.320 in mind. That does not mean that this order is 4:07:53.440 --> 4:07:56.720 not going to chill speech, suppress free speech, or be. 4:07:56.840 --> 4:07:58.480 Used to criminally target people. 4:07:58.640 --> 4:08:02.240 Yeah, criminal prosecutions can ruin the lives of people for 4:08:02.640 --> 4:08:05.560 years and years, regardless of the actual outcome, right, even 4:08:05.600 --> 4:08:08.160 if they get off on the charges. And totally we 4:08:08.240 --> 4:08:10.120 want to be clear that we're not like minimizing the 4:08:10.160 --> 4:08:12.640 effects of this, but we do want to actually break 4:08:12.720 --> 4:08:15.920 down what like the threat model is specifically for like 4:08:16.240 --> 4:08:22.320 NGO's legal organizations that help protesters or migrants, LGBTQ organizations, Right, 4:08:22.640 --> 4:08:25.200 these are probably going to be the first targets of 4:08:25.280 --> 4:08:28.840 a lot of like the conspiracy fraud sections of disorder. Besides, 4:08:28.920 --> 4:08:31.640 you know, protesters that get rounded up and get put 4:08:31.760 --> 4:08:35.520 into into this like political war game that they're playing, 4:08:35.880 --> 4:08:39.360 similar to how regular protesters in Atlanta then found themselves 4:08:39.720 --> 4:08:43.160 suddenly admitst like a three year long reco domestic terrorism 4:08:43.280 --> 4:08:46.920 case despite not participating in any kind of large organized 4:08:46.960 --> 4:08:50.160 aspect of stop Coop City. They were just regular attendees. 4:08:50.480 --> 4:08:53.760 So there'll be stuff similar to that that happens throughout 4:08:53.840 --> 4:08:56.760 the next few months to years, and I think that 4:08:57.000 --> 4:09:00.480 is where we should keep our attention focused on mitigating 4:09:00.680 --> 4:09:02.200 the harms of government overreach. 4:09:02.680 --> 4:09:05.320 Yeah, so for the fun raise this week, something slightly different. 4:09:05.800 --> 4:09:07.880 I wanted to read of this go fundme for the 4:09:07.920 --> 4:09:12.360 emergency Circus. They are traveling south of the US border. 4:09:12.480 --> 4:09:16.120 I believe they're going to migrant shelters in Tijuana to 4:09:16.280 --> 4:09:21.520 hold circus acts circus performances for kids. I have obviously, obviously, 4:09:21.600 --> 4:09:23.120 but I've spent a decent amount of my life in 4:09:23.240 --> 4:09:26.160 refugee camps and migrant shelters and they can be pretty 4:09:26.200 --> 4:09:29.760 hard places for kids, and it's something that I think 4:09:29.840 --> 4:09:33.160 about almost every day. And so people bringing joy to 4:09:33.200 --> 4:09:35.640 their children is something that I think is wonderful and 4:09:35.840 --> 4:09:38.800 very important. People, you know, get the impression that like 4:09:39.200 --> 4:09:41.120 legal funds are important and the kids having a laugh 4:09:41.200 --> 4:09:43.320 is not important, But like children have a right to 4:09:43.360 --> 4:09:45.120 be children, and that's taken away from them by the 4:09:45.160 --> 4:09:48.720 immigration system. And so I would like if you supported this. 4:09:49.240 --> 4:09:54.680 The website is ww dot gofundb dot com slash f 4:09:54.960 --> 4:09:59.320 slash ec hyphen o f f hyphen ic. It will 4:09:59.320 --> 4:10:02.280 also be in a show. If you would like to 4:10:02.480 --> 4:10:06.120 email us, you can do so at our encrypted email address, 4:10:06.480 --> 4:10:11.760 which is cool Zone Tips at proton dot me. Your 4:10:11.800 --> 4:10:13.960 email will only be end to end encrypted if you 4:10:14.080 --> 4:10:17.400 send it from an encrypted email address. Proton mail is 4:10:17.480 --> 4:10:20.040 an example of an encrypted email address. 4:10:21.120 --> 4:10:24.840 Before we close the episode, I will tease an episode 4:10:24.880 --> 4:10:28.440 for next week. There was a shooting at a Mormon 4:10:28.680 --> 4:10:33.160 church on Sunday, which the right briefly tried to turn 4:10:33.240 --> 4:10:36.800 into like this culture war narrative on attacks on Christianity, 4:10:37.240 --> 4:10:39.560 and then once information about the shooter became more clear, 4:10:39.560 --> 4:10:42.880 they quickly dropped the subject. So on Wednesday, I'll be 4:10:42.920 --> 4:10:45.720 doing an episode talking about this shooting and a few others, 4:10:45.760 --> 4:10:48.560 and how various outlets on the right end left are 4:10:48.880 --> 4:10:51.680 only reporting on these big shootings insofar as they can 4:10:51.720 --> 4:10:55.360 turn them into political weapons against the opposition party. 4:10:56.240 --> 4:10:59.600 We reported the news, We reported the news. 4:11:05.080 --> 4:11:08.200 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 4:11:08.320 --> 4:11:10.160 from now until the heat death of the universe. 4:11:10.960 --> 4:11:11.520 It could happen. 4:11:11.600 --> 4:11:13.440 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 4:11:13.640 --> 4:11:15.520 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media. 4:11:15.840 --> 4:11:19.080 Visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out 4:11:19.120 --> 4:11:22.200 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. 4:11:22.280 --> 4:11:25.240 Listen to podcasts can now find sources where it could 4:11:25.240 --> 4:11:27.480 happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. 4:11:27.880 --> 4:11:28.640 Thanks for listening.