WEBVTT - Elon Won't Leave Mar-a-Lago but are Users Fleeing X? 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:09.480 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.239 Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.440 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:22.479 controlled by one man. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.880 Starting his own artificial intelligence company. Well, he's a legitimate 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:28.800 super genius, I mean legitimate. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:29.320 He says. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:31.960 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:32.400 be different. 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:33.400 He'll vote Republican. 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.159 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:36.560 on him. 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.440 Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.720 Anything he does is fascinating the people. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.240 Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:55.320 --> 0:01:00.240 It's Tuesday, November nineteenth. I'm your host, David Popadopolis. So 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.759 it's somehow been just fourteen days since the election. But oh, 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.080 how busy they've been for Elon Musk, who still seems 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.000 to be basically living at mar A Lago, racking up 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:15.319 invites from foreign leaders, watching his wealth sore, and weighing 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.400 in loudly on Trump's cabinet appointees. All the while his 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:24.120 social media company x steadily loses users to rival Blue Sky. 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:26.360 And We're going to get right into all of this 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.720 with our very own Musk cabinet, Ace reporter Dana Hall Hey. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:35.520 They're Dana Hey, Kurt Wagner, who covers social media for 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.800 US here at Bloomberg, Hay, Kurt Hi, David Hey, and 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.360 then Max Chafkin, who around here feels a little like 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.679 Musk at the Mara A Lago ocean front pool. 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:53.440 Elon Musk elan twa job. What a job he does. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:55.040 He's a great and he happens to be a really 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.600 good guy. You know, he likes this place. I can't 0:01:57.600 --> 0:01:58.280 get him out of here. 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.840 He just likes this place. And you know what, I 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:01.960 like having him here too. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.840 He's good, He's done a fantastic job. Really an incredible 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.440 mind and these unbelievable entrepreneurs sort of everything. 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.880 I'm asking him, what do you do best? And we 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:13.880 were not able. 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.680 To figure it out. But it's a lot of things. 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.000 Amax, David. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.040 I trust that my confirmation hearing will be food and uneventful. 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.840 Yes, it shall all right. We're going to dive right 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:30.440 into it. The Trump trade is working out spectacularly so 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.400 far for Elon Musk. As you look at the numbers 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.080 so far, his wealth is now up to three hundred 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.000 and twenty six billion dollars according to the Bloomberg Terminal, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.680 which is about one hundred billion dollars more than his 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.320 closest rival, who would be Jeff Bezos. Tesla stocks her 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.160 up about a third since the election several hundred billion, 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:57.320 and Xai and SpaceX are cutting deals at record high valuations. So, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.840 you know, Kurt Wagner, in the run up to the vote, 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.520 on this show and in other places, there was a 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:07.040 lot of handwringing and wondering about whether Musk was neglecting 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.760 his companies and neglecting his shareholders during the campaign by 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.519 spending so much time campaigning for Trump, and he was 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.720 essentially undermining these companies. I guess those numbers, as it 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.680 strikes me, at least those valuations put a rest to 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.320 all of that. The money speaks for itself, does it not, 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:29.000 mister Wagner to an extent. 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.480 I think it does, right. I mean, this is a 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:38.280 man who has built a reputation on making massive bets, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.000 and this is a massive bet that he made that 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.000 is paying off handsomely. Right, he picked Donald Trump. He 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.640 put the full weight of his wealth, the full weight 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:53.440 of his time, his reputation behind him. Trump is now 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:58.360 president Again, Elon is you know, the most powerful non 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:02.880 elected person probably in the world, and he's reaping the 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.800 benefits to come with that, right, and that includes the 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.520 buoyancy of his his you know, companies, and the idea 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.800 that because he's close to the president, because he has 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.880 the president sort of in his ear, he's going to 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.080 be able to, you know, get the type of regulation 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:20.800 he wants. He's going to get the types of deals 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.760 that he wants, he's going to get the relationships that 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.640 he wants, and all of those things are beneficial to 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.120 Elon Inc. And the world of Elon Muskin. We're seeing that, 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:30.800 as you point out in the valuations. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.040 Yeah, and we're gonna we're going to get into the 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.400 breakdown item by item of what is pushing up that valuation. 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:36.839 Max. 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.839 I mean, he's absolutely neglecting his companies. There's like no 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.000 question that he has spent the last month or so 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.599 doing nothing but hang around Donald Trump and go to 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.040 campaign events and focus on this election. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:49.320 Now. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.320 I think the bet that the investors are making, as 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.359 Kurt saying, is that he's gotten a lot for his companies. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:56.039 And and you. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.640 Know, you could make an argument right that maybe having 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:03.200 a guy who kind of is impulsive. Who's a let's 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:07.360 just put this generously, an unconventional manager has you know, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.440 pensions for outbursts of anger, erratic decision making. Maybe it's 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.000 better for him to be, you know, kind of operating 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.480 at a high level doing the kind of political diplomacy 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.279 that could help a company of Tesla size or a 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.520 company of space exercise. And like that's the bet that 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.919 they're making. But I also think like we should not 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.159 just assume that the market has any idea whether this 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.120 is good or bad for Tesla. Yet this is a 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:35.560 bet that investors are making, you know, amid a moment 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.760 of a lot of exuberance. And you know, we'll see 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:40.640 Tesla stock, as we talk about all the time, it 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.200 swings a lot on this podcast. 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.120 So Dannik Kurt I wonder on that point, are there 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.880 any signs inside Musk's companies that all the time he 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.599 is spending in Pennsylvania now in mar A Lago, that 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.120 top executives at that at those companies are now empowered 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.880 to do more make the decisions on their own. Is 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.919 there any implicit or explicit message, yes, go ahead and 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.960 do that, or is it too soon for that? 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.640 I mean, listen, Musk has always run so many companies 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.800 that his executives have always been kind of empowered to 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.000 do stuff without him. Like at SpaceX, Gwen Shotwell clearly 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.200 runs the day to day. At Tesla, there aren't really 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.880 that many named executive officers, and like in the past, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.120 you know, people would always complain that there were bottlenecks 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.279 because they were waiting for Elon to sign off on stuff. 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.279 But like Tesla's a profitable company. It kind of runs. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.919 It's like they make cars, they sell cars, Like, you know, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.560 he's more focused on robotics in AI, like the basic 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.080 you know work of like running a factory, like he's 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.440 no longer sleeping on the floor or whatever. So I 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:47.680 just think that we as a news or operation need 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.080 to kind of stop looking for like these points of 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.560 like everyone wants the narrative that like just falling apart 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.320 because Elon is doing politics and frankly, it's not like 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.360 like now you have the whole like Trump administration on X, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.960 like X is doing fine. Like I don't know, I 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.440 just I just sort of feel like there's a desire 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.440 to find these points of tension and friction that might 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.120 be premature because. 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.760 Well, well, a a were journalists, and journalists by definition, 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.320 that's what we do. We look for points of friction 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.080 and tension. But I guess that answer implicit answer is 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.960 that the CEO role doesn't matter, Then why the hell 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:21.840 do I need a CEO? 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.440 I think it matters different at different companies, right, So, like, yeah, 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.840 when you're the CEO of six different businesses that are 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.240 all you know, at various stages, but for the most part, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:37.720 relatively established, Yeah, maybe you don't necessarily need a traditional 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.480 hands on CEO, right, But that's going to be very 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.080 different when you have a startup or something like that. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.040 I guess I would say I would maybe echo with 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.000 Dana saying, and just add I think it's too early, right, Like, 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.720 this is already someone who was who was spread incredibly 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.680 thin well before Trump showed up into the picture. For him, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.400 it's never He's never been someone who's like, you know, hey, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.080 I'm going to be at the office from nine to five, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.840 you know, pop eye for office hours or whatever. Like 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.920 that's just not how he operates anyways. And so adding 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.880 this other you know, I don't even want to call 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:09.560 it a hobby obviously, because is much better than that. 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:14.000 But adding this other commitment to his plate is obviously 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.080 it's a big deal, but at the same time, his 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.040 companies are used to only getting fractions of his time, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.640 and so I think it's too soon to say whether 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.200 this is going to have a long term impact. 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:26.720 You know, there's a lot of irrational exuberance right now. 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.440 I would like to point out that SpaceX is going 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.040 to launch a starship Brocket this evening, and President Trump 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.560 is going to go to that launch, as is the 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.200 new FCC nominated chair, Brendan Carr. So you might even 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.160 see like the entire Trump cabinet or like everyone from 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.199 mar A Lago like at this launch. So I think 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.320 that for Elon that is really good, and he's neglecting 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.480 his companies, perhaps on the day to day, but just 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:53.640 the sort of fact that this whole Republican entourage is 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.920 now hanging out with Elon, flying around with Elon, going 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.960 to the UFC fight with Elon, like he is best 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.720 in the glow of that adulation, which he never got 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.480 from the Biden administration, as we have talked about many times. 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.319 And so for a guy who really likes the dopamine 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:14.120 hit of adulation and feeling like he's in power, and 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.200 feeling appreciated. To have the President elect come to his 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:18.800 launch is like a huge thing for him. 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.559 Let me just say this that all those things Max 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.360 you said are correct. We shall see ultimately where Tesla 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.480 and these other companies from an operating basis go from 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.400 here in the coming months and years, and whether him 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.360 Elon Musk spending so little time of late with them 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.640 ultimately hurts them or not. But if I'm a shareholder 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:44.040 in the company he's just added in Tesla, for instance, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.640 he's just added several hundred billions of dollars to the 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:49.680 value of the company, I am thrilled. And if I 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.760 have those long term concerns, you know what I do. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.000 I just sell the stock at an incredible profit right now. 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:55.520 Absolutely. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.600 And one thing I'll say that I think where what 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.760 the market is telling us is that there were a 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.959 lot of reports even before the election, but then then 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.480 definitely after kind of skeptical about hey, how long can 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.520 this Trump Musk romance last? You know, these you know, 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.920 they are so high on each other's presence, and I 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.240 think what we're seeing to Dana's point, is it's lasting 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.440 so far. Right Musk is in the inner circle. He 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:22.720 has not been pushed out. If anything, he has gotten 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.120 closer to Trump over the last fourteen days than he 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:26.880 was after the election. 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.760 And that is true. It is holding for now. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.840 And we're going to get into that a little bit 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.280 later on, because there are some signs here and there, 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.480 some fraying. But I first do want to go through 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.360 item by item if one is to make sense of 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.600 this enormous spike in the valuations of his companies in 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:49.040 terms of what a Trump administration can can bring about 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.760 for Elon Inc. Let's do that now. So, Dana, the 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:53.360 first thing that comes to mind and I need to 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:57.319 ask you about, is the possibility, as has been floated 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:01.360 in recent days, that the Trump adminished station brings about 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:06.440 some sweeping new rules to autonomous vehicles, helping pave the 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.560 way for Elon to roll out what are. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.800 We calling it, robo cyber cab. Tell us a bit 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:13.200 about that. 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.160 So, as you all recall back in you know, April, 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:20.320 Elon Musk basically fired twenty percent of Tesla's staff and 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.120 completely pivoted the company. They're no longer chasing volume of 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.040 electric cars. The future is all about autonomy and AI 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.480 and the robotaxi and on an earnings call, Musk said 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.680 very clearly, like if President Trump is elected, like I'm 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.680 really hoping for a kind of a streamlined federal process 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.760 when it comes to autonomous vehicles instead of this patchwork 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.760 regulatory quilts where like one city has one rule and 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.680 another state has another rule. And that is very clearly 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.080 one of his asks. And you know, I think that 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:56.120 just basically a streamlined, very fast track kind of regulatory 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.000 regime is really what Elon wants, and now he's probably 0:11:59.080 --> 0:11:59.880 gonna get it. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.920 There was a report to that effect that correct me 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:04.520 if I'm wrong. 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.920 Yeah, our colleague David Welsh broke the story over the 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:11.240 weekend that the Trump transition team was like floating possibly 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.920 Emil Michael, who used to work at Uber as like 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.280 a potential Dot secretary. Now we know that he is 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.040 not the cabinet elect, but I mean, we don't know 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.360 yet who's going to end up running NITZ for example. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:23.959 Just a couple of things. 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.880 Yeah, Trump did not pick the guy that Elon seemed 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.000 to want, Emil Michael, who would have been who's basically 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.640 you know, an ex uber executive, former Silicon Valley guy. 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.560 Seems like of all the people who could possibly just 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.680 kind of ram this through, he'd be the most likely 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.280 to do it. I have to say, the guy that 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.120 Trump did pick doesn't have any track record of or 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.680 as far as I could find in a quick search 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.160 since the pick was announced, of talking about autonous vehicles. 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:55.080 And I would be skeptical that the Trump administration is 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.720 going to spend, you know, a ton of political capital 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.679 on this and and the other thing. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:01.760 Would it take a ton of political capital. 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.720 So the Bloomberg story we published is really good. It 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:06.840 explains that they would there are some rules that they 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.239 could change, but they would need an Act of Congress 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.680 to to really you know, to really like make the 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.320 cyber cab happen on any kind of big scale. And 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.400 I think that the problem here, which was the problem 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.079 before Trump was elected, is that you can have the 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:27.440 best regulatory framework, the biggest, most beautiful, most glorious could 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.160 be like the toilet seat of mar A Lago equivalent 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.560 of regulatory frameworks, and you need a cyber cab, like 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.320 you need a working car to like make use of 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.840 these regulations. And again it's not totally clear that that 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.559 has happened. So again this all feels like very hypothetical. 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.240 We've got like, maybe there's going to be some kind 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.080 of thing that's that's going to happen to make Elon 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.560 Musk happy on the regulatory side. But then Tesla would 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.520 have to turn around and take advantage of it somehow. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.000 Right, it could actually backfire because you could no longer 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.800 blame regulatory approval for the delay. Like if they got 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.080 this fast track regulatory aprival, they'd have to like they'd 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.600 have to actually like start an operation. 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:10.079 Dan. 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:14.959 Next up the sun setting of EV tax rebates for 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:16.199 car buyers. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.240 Yeah, so the seventy five hundred dollars federal tax credit 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.880 for buying an electric vehicle has been a huge part 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.120 of the Inflation Reduction Act and really kind of encouraged 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.120 a lot of consumers who maybe weren't thinking about an 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.240 EV to buy a car. And the Trump administration has 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.840 floated about sunsetting that. Elon says that he's okay with that, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.200 and I think that he's right in that Tesla, by 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.880 virtue of their volume and can do a lot with 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.520 pricing and they don't need the credits as much as 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.520 their rivals do because Tesla is already profitable. Now, would 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.880 losing the credit hurt their gross margin? Absolutely? But it's 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.520 really going to hurt rivals, and so you know, Elon 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.960 might be willing to kind of go ahead with this 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.120 because it would just allow Tesla's moat to get so 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.400 much better. I mean, you have like GM and Forward. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.040 They poured so much money into trying to forecast the 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.520 EV market going forward, and they keep having to rewrite 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.480 their playbook and like scale back their ambitions, and it's 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.000 so frustrating for them because like with every administration things, 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.680 Wax and Wayne, whereas like Tesla is the dominant player 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.360 in the US, They're going to basically be able to 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.760 sort of you know, continue that moat and they still 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.640 get a lot of funding from the IRA for manufacturing, 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.360 for installing superchargers. I mean, I could see, you know, 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.640 Tesla just basically like the credit goes away, Tesla just 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.920 slashes prices, which we've seen Elon do in the past, 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.200 and like, I don't think that the credit is that 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:43.960 big of a deal, to be honest, I think that 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:45.840 Elon would be happy to see it go away. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.320 I guess I would point out that this is not 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.080 the only sort of industry or major tech company that 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:56.800 is almost pushing for more regulation or in this case, 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.640 you know, fewer benefits in order to benefit them. It's 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.280 sort of it's counterintuitive, right, So I would point out 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:06.480 that Meta, which owns Facebook, Instagram for years, has been saying, hey, 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.960 regulate us, regulate the tech, regulate the social networking industry. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.200 And on the surface, you think, why would they ever 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:14.360 want more regulation? 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:15.400 Right, this would hurt them? 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.640 Well, it's because, as we pointed out, same with Tesla, 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:21.480 they're in such a dominant position that any regulation they 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.040 can deal with. They have the resources, they have the talent, 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.080 they have the time to deal with it easily. But 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.280 it will close the door for a number of competitors. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.240 That will make it harder for competitors to catch. 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:32.480 Up to them. 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:36.160 Right, It's still a growing in somewhat new industry, the evs, 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.720 but like it's much more mature than when Elon started 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.640 this out right, So like there is a dominant player 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:43.880 which didn't exist when he was first going. And so 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.360 I think that's why this counter into a intuitive idea 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:47.880 actually makes a lot of sense for him. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:48.200 Max. 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:53.120 Another thing that is helping Musk's empire is the idea 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.520 it's been floated or I guess Trump has said he 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.200 would like Brendan Carr to chair the FCC. 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.400 Why is this positive for elinning. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.920 Brend And Carr is a long time Elon Musk fan, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.159 and in particular he's expressed appreciation for Elon Musk in 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.200 all sorts of respects. But the FCC is an important 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.240 regulator for Starlink, which is a subsidiary of SpaceX. And 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.439 you know, one of Elon Musk's big frustrations with the 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.600 Biden administration is that there is a lot of money 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.879 for rural broadband internet and that money has not gone 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.320 to him. There are a couple of programs and car 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.200 has been very outspoken about the need. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:31.959 To change that. 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.560 And I actually think this is the way, like much 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.600 more than autonomous vehicles or some of these other things 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:41.720 that rely on a lot of hypothetical car. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:42.400 This is a way. 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.479 Yeah, this is like a way that Elon Musk can 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:50.000 put money directly towards his top line, you know, revenue 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.880 from the government to Starlink. And part of the reason 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.960 it's more plausible is because Elon Musk has like a 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.440 real plausible case for it. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:58.639 Yeah, That's what I was going to ask you. Is 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.200 there a good inmate case that starlink deserves that money? 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.679 Just as much as these other companies do. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:05.560 It's complicated. I've done I've done a little bit of 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.840 reporting on this, and there are there's some analysts out 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.560 there who have been looking at this and talking about 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.720 it as a possibility. Elon Musk's argument is essentially, the 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.560 satellites are going to get better, and no one really 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.880 knows how true that is or to what extent they're 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.440 going to get better. Are they going to get better enough? 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.760 And like that's kind of where the rubber meets the road. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.600 But there is a case for satellites, like you could 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.000 roll these like give people starlinks. Is a lot cheaper 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.960 than laying out fiber. The question is like when you 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.080 try to do it on a mass scale, how does 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.600 that work? And I think the from a from a 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.160 sort of Elon point of view, he gets two things 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.119 out of this. One is potentially more revenue, but the 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:47.280 second is it slows down these traditional telecom operators that 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:51.679 we're counting on government subsidies for their own you know, 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.840 rollout of rural broadbands. So this is like a definite 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.520 win for Elon. I think it's I think Brendan Carr 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.240 is like the biggest win he's had so far, even 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.920 bigger than getting named as the co chair of DOGE, 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.400 and certainly better than these kind of you know, sort 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.919 of vague reports that the Trump administration is is you know, 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:15.280 sympathetic to autonomous vehicles, because because again we don't really know, 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:16.760 it's just a little hard to figure out how that 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.080 would benefit Elon, at least in the short term. 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.080 The other thing I wanted to jump in on is 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.480 that Carr has advocated a ban on TikTok, citing national 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.080 security concerns because of China, and that could also benefit 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.359 Elon because you know, as X adds more video capacity, 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.119 they're really rivals with TikTok. So I think when we 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.760 look at all of these cabinet appointments, it's really important 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.040 to sort of think about how they benefit Musk not 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.879 just in one company, but sort of across all companies. 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:43.960 And Brendan Carr is going to go to the Space 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:44.800 Excellence today. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.000 Also, it should be noted I guess that Elon has 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.680 claimed he doesn't want a TikTok ban, right, He's sort 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.640 of like, hey, this is against free speech, this would 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.680 be a bad thing. But as Dana very smartly points out, 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.639 like he's saying that in reality, I think TikTok not 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.360 being in picture would ultimately benefit X. So he might 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.160 say he doesn't want it, but when push comes to shove, 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.199 I'm sure he'd happily you accept a lot more attention 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:10.040 coming towards X. 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.320 Yeah, more on X in a moment, Max, thank you 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.720 very much for bringing up DOZE, the Department of Government Efficiency. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.280 We are absolutely, dear listeners, gonna be talking more about 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.280