1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: Starting his own artificial intelligence company. Well, he's a legitimate 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: super genius, I mean legitimate. 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 3: He says. 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: be different. 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican. 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 4: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 12 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 4: on him. 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 4: Anything he does is fascinating the people. 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 5: Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 5: It's Tuesday, November nineteenth. I'm your host, David Popadopolis. So 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 5: it's somehow been just fourteen days since the election. But oh, 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 5: how busy they've been for Elon Musk, who still seems 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 5: to be basically living at mar A Lago, racking up 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 5: invites from foreign leaders, watching his wealth sore, and weighing 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 5: in loudly on Trump's cabinet appointees. All the while his 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 5: social media company x steadily loses users to rival Blue Sky. 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 5: And We're going to get right into all of this 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 5: with our very own Musk cabinet, Ace reporter Dana Hall Hey. 25 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 5: They're Dana Hey, Kurt Wagner, who covers social media for 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 5: US here at Bloomberg, Hay, Kurt Hi, David Hey, and 27 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 5: then Max Chafkin, who around here feels a little like 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 5: Musk at the Mara A Lago ocean front pool. 29 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 6: Elon Musk elan twa job. What a job he does. 30 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 6: He's a great and he happens to be a really 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 6: good guy. You know, he likes this place. I can't 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 6: get him out of here. 33 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: He just likes this place. And you know what, I 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 3: like having him here too. 35 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 6: He's good, He's done a fantastic job. Really an incredible 36 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 6: mind and these unbelievable entrepreneurs sort of everything. 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 3: I'm asking him, what do you do best? And we 38 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 3: were not able. 39 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 6: To figure it out. But it's a lot of things. 40 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 3: Amax, David. 41 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: I trust that my confirmation hearing will be food and uneventful. 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 5: Yes, it shall all right. We're going to dive right 43 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 5: into it. The Trump trade is working out spectacularly so 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 5: far for Elon Musk. As you look at the numbers 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 5: so far, his wealth is now up to three hundred 46 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 5: and twenty six billion dollars according to the Bloomberg Terminal, 47 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 5: which is about one hundred billion dollars more than his 48 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 5: closest rival, who would be Jeff Bezos. Tesla stocks her 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 5: up about a third since the election several hundred billion, 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 5: and Xai and SpaceX are cutting deals at record high valuations. So, 51 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 5: you know, Kurt Wagner, in the run up to the vote, 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 5: on this show and in other places, there was a 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 5: lot of handwringing and wondering about whether Musk was neglecting 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 5: his companies and neglecting his shareholders during the campaign by 55 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 5: spending so much time campaigning for Trump, and he was 56 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 5: essentially undermining these companies. I guess those numbers, as it 57 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 5: strikes me, at least those valuations put a rest to 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 5: all of that. The money speaks for itself, does it not, 59 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 5: mister Wagner to an extent. 60 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 4: I think it does, right. I mean, this is a 61 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 4: man who has built a reputation on making massive bets, 62 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 4: and this is a massive bet that he made that 63 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 4: is paying off handsomely. Right, he picked Donald Trump. He 64 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 4: put the full weight of his wealth, the full weight 65 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 4: of his time, his reputation behind him. Trump is now 66 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 4: president Again, Elon is you know, the most powerful non 67 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 4: elected person probably in the world, and he's reaping the 68 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 4: benefits to come with that, right, and that includes the 69 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 4: buoyancy of his his you know, companies, and the idea 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 4: that because he's close to the president, because he has 71 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 4: the president sort of in his ear, he's going to 72 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 4: be able to, you know, get the type of regulation 73 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 4: he wants. He's going to get the types of deals 74 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: that he wants, he's going to get the relationships that 75 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 4: he wants, and all of those things are beneficial to 76 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 4: Elon Inc. And the world of Elon Muskin. We're seeing that, 77 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 4: as you point out in the valuations. 78 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, and we're gonna we're going to get into the 79 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 5: breakdown item by item of what is pushing up that valuation. 80 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 3: Max. 81 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: I mean, he's absolutely neglecting his companies. There's like no 82 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: question that he has spent the last month or so 83 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: doing nothing but hang around Donald Trump and go to 84 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: campaign events and focus on this election. 85 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 3: Now. 86 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: I think the bet that the investors are making, as 87 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 2: Kurt saying, is that he's gotten a lot for his companies. 88 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 3: And and you. 89 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: Know, you could make an argument right that maybe having 90 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: a guy who kind of is impulsive. Who's a let's 91 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: just put this generously, an unconventional manager has you know, 92 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: pensions for outbursts of anger, erratic decision making. Maybe it's 93 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: better for him to be, you know, kind of operating 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: at a high level doing the kind of political diplomacy 95 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 2: that could help a company of Tesla size or a 96 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: company of space exercise. And like that's the bet that 97 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: they're making. But I also think like we should not 98 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 2: just assume that the market has any idea whether this 99 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: is good or bad for Tesla. Yet this is a 100 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: bet that investors are making, you know, amid a moment 101 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: of a lot of exuberance. And you know, we'll see 102 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: Tesla stock, as we talk about all the time, it 103 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: swings a lot on this podcast. 104 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 5: So Dannik Kurt I wonder on that point, are there 105 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 5: any signs inside Musk's companies that all the time he 106 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 5: is spending in Pennsylvania now in mar A Lago, that 107 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 5: top executives at that at those companies are now empowered 108 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 5: to do more make the decisions on their own. Is 109 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 5: there any implicit or explicit message, yes, go ahead and 110 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 5: do that, or is it too soon for that? 111 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, Musk has always run so many companies 112 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: that his executives have always been kind of empowered to 113 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: do stuff without him. Like at SpaceX, Gwen Shotwell clearly 114 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: runs the day to day. At Tesla, there aren't really 115 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: that many named executive officers, and like in the past, 116 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, people would always complain that there were bottlenecks 117 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: because they were waiting for Elon to sign off on stuff. 118 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: But like Tesla's a profitable company. It kind of runs. 119 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: It's like they make cars, they sell cars, Like, you know, 120 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: he's more focused on robotics in AI, like the basic 121 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: you know work of like running a factory, like he's 122 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: no longer sleeping on the floor or whatever. So I 123 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: just think that we as a news or operation need 124 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: to kind of stop looking for like these points of 125 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: like everyone wants the narrative that like just falling apart 126 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: because Elon is doing politics and frankly, it's not like 127 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: like now you have the whole like Trump administration on X, 128 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: like X is doing fine. Like I don't know, I 129 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: just I just sort of feel like there's a desire 130 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: to find these points of tension and friction that might 131 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: be premature because. 132 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 5: Well, well, a a were journalists, and journalists by definition, 133 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 5: that's what we do. We look for points of friction 134 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 5: and tension. But I guess that answer implicit answer is 135 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 5: that the CEO role doesn't matter, Then why the hell 136 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 5: do I need a CEO? 137 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 4: I think it matters different at different companies, right, So, like, yeah, 138 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 4: when you're the CEO of six different businesses that are 139 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 4: all you know, at various stages, but for the most part, 140 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 4: relatively established, Yeah, maybe you don't necessarily need a traditional 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 4: hands on CEO, right, But that's going to be very 142 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 4: different when you have a startup or something like that. 143 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 4: I guess I would say I would maybe echo with 144 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 4: Dana saying, and just add I think it's too early, right, Like, 145 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 4: this is already someone who was who was spread incredibly 146 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 4: thin well before Trump showed up into the picture. For him, 147 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 4: it's never He's never been someone who's like, you know, hey, 148 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 4: I'm going to be at the office from nine to five, 149 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 4: you know, pop eye for office hours or whatever. Like 150 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 4: that's just not how he operates anyways. And so adding 151 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 4: this other you know, I don't even want to call 152 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 4: it a hobby obviously, because is much better than that. 153 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: But adding this other commitment to his plate is obviously 154 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 4: it's a big deal, but at the same time, his 155 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 4: companies are used to only getting fractions of his time, 156 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 4: and so I think it's too soon to say whether 157 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 4: this is going to have a long term impact. 158 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of irrational exuberance right now. 159 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: I would like to point out that SpaceX is going 160 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: to launch a starship Brocket this evening, and President Trump 161 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: is going to go to that launch, as is the 162 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: new FCC nominated chair, Brendan Carr. So you might even 163 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: see like the entire Trump cabinet or like everyone from 164 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: mar A Lago like at this launch. So I think 165 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: that for Elon that is really good, and he's neglecting 166 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: his companies, perhaps on the day to day, but just 167 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: the sort of fact that this whole Republican entourage is 168 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: now hanging out with Elon, flying around with Elon, going 169 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: to the UFC fight with Elon, like he is best 170 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: in the glow of that adulation, which he never got 171 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: from the Biden administration, as we have talked about many times. 172 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: And so for a guy who really likes the dopamine 173 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: hit of adulation and feeling like he's in power, and 174 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: feeling appreciated. To have the President elect come to his 175 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: launch is like a huge thing for him. 176 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 5: Let me just say this that all those things Max 177 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 5: you said are correct. We shall see ultimately where Tesla 178 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 5: and these other companies from an operating basis go from 179 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 5: here in the coming months and years, and whether him 180 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 5: Elon Musk spending so little time of late with them 181 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 5: ultimately hurts them or not. But if I'm a shareholder 182 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 5: in the company he's just added in Tesla, for instance, 183 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 5: he's just added several hundred billions of dollars to the 184 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 5: value of the company, I am thrilled. And if I 185 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 5: have those long term concerns, you know what I do. 186 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 5: I just sell the stock at an incredible profit right now. 187 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 188 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: And one thing I'll say that I think where what 189 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: the market is telling us is that there were a 190 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 2: lot of reports even before the election, but then then 191 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: definitely after kind of skeptical about hey, how long can 192 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: this Trump Musk romance last? You know, these you know, 193 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: they are so high on each other's presence, and I 194 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: think what we're seeing to Dana's point, is it's lasting 195 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: so far. Right Musk is in the inner circle. He 196 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 2: has not been pushed out. If anything, he has gotten 197 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: closer to Trump over the last fourteen days than he 198 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: was after the election. 199 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 3: And that is true. It is holding for now. 200 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 5: And we're going to get into that a little bit 201 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 5: later on, because there are some signs here and there, 202 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 5: some fraying. But I first do want to go through 203 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 5: item by item if one is to make sense of 204 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 5: this enormous spike in the valuations of his companies in 205 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 5: terms of what a Trump administration can can bring about 206 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 5: for Elon Inc. Let's do that now. So, Dana, the 207 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 5: first thing that comes to mind and I need to 208 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 5: ask you about, is the possibility, as has been floated 209 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 5: in recent days, that the Trump adminished station brings about 210 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 5: some sweeping new rules to autonomous vehicles, helping pave the 211 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 5: way for Elon to roll out what are. 212 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 3: We calling it, robo cyber cab. Tell us a bit 213 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 3: about that. 214 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: So, as you all recall back in you know, April, 215 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: Elon Musk basically fired twenty percent of Tesla's staff and 216 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: completely pivoted the company. They're no longer chasing volume of 217 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: electric cars. The future is all about autonomy and AI 218 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: and the robotaxi and on an earnings call, Musk said 219 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: very clearly, like if President Trump is elected, like I'm 220 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: really hoping for a kind of a streamlined federal process 221 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to autonomous vehicles instead of this patchwork 222 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: regulatory quilts where like one city has one rule and 223 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: another state has another rule. And that is very clearly 224 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: one of his asks. And you know, I think that 225 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: just basically a streamlined, very fast track kind of regulatory 226 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: regime is really what Elon wants, and now he's probably 227 00:11:59,080 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: gonna get it. 228 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 3: There was a report to that effect that correct me 229 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 3: if I'm wrong. 230 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, our colleague David Welsh broke the story over the 231 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: weekend that the Trump transition team was like floating possibly 232 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: Emil Michael, who used to work at Uber as like 233 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: a potential Dot secretary. Now we know that he is 234 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: not the cabinet elect, but I mean, we don't know 235 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: yet who's going to end up running NITZ for example. 236 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 3: Just a couple of things. 237 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, Trump did not pick the guy that Elon seemed 238 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 2: to want, Emil Michael, who would have been who's basically 239 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: you know, an ex uber executive, former Silicon Valley guy. 240 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: Seems like of all the people who could possibly just 241 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 2: kind of ram this through, he'd be the most likely 242 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: to do it. I have to say, the guy that 243 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: Trump did pick doesn't have any track record of or 244 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 2: as far as I could find in a quick search 245 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: since the pick was announced, of talking about autonous vehicles. 246 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: And I would be skeptical that the Trump administration is 247 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: going to spend, you know, a ton of political capital 248 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: on this and and the other thing. 249 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 3: Would it take a ton of political capital. 250 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: So the Bloomberg story we published is really good. It 251 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: explains that they would there are some rules that they 252 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,239 Speaker 2: could change, but they would need an Act of Congress 253 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 2: to to really you know, to really like make the 254 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 2: cyber cab happen on any kind of big scale. And 255 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 2: I think that the problem here, which was the problem 256 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 2: before Trump was elected, is that you can have the 257 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 2: best regulatory framework, the biggest, most beautiful, most glorious could 258 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: be like the toilet seat of mar A Lago equivalent 259 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: of regulatory frameworks, and you need a cyber cab, like 260 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 2: you need a working car to like make use of 261 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: these regulations. And again it's not totally clear that that 262 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 2: has happened. So again this all feels like very hypothetical. 263 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: We've got like, maybe there's going to be some kind 264 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 2: of thing that's that's going to happen to make Elon 265 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 2: Musk happy on the regulatory side. But then Tesla would 266 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: have to turn around and take advantage of it somehow. 267 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: Right, it could actually backfire because you could no longer 268 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: blame regulatory approval for the delay. Like if they got 269 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: this fast track regulatory aprival, they'd have to like they'd 270 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: have to actually like start an operation. 271 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 3: Dan. 272 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 5: Next up the sun setting of EV tax rebates for 273 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 5: car buyers. 274 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the seventy five hundred dollars federal tax credit 275 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: for buying an electric vehicle has been a huge part 276 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: of the Inflation Reduction Act and really kind of encouraged 277 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: a lot of consumers who maybe weren't thinking about an 278 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: EV to buy a car. And the Trump administration has 279 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: floated about sunsetting that. Elon says that he's okay with that, 280 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: and I think that he's right in that Tesla, by 281 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: virtue of their volume and can do a lot with 282 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: pricing and they don't need the credits as much as 283 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: their rivals do because Tesla is already profitable. Now, would 284 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: losing the credit hurt their gross margin? Absolutely? But it's 285 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: really going to hurt rivals, and so you know, Elon 286 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: might be willing to kind of go ahead with this 287 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: because it would just allow Tesla's moat to get so 288 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: much better. I mean, you have like GM and Forward. 289 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: They poured so much money into trying to forecast the 290 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: EV market going forward, and they keep having to rewrite 291 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: their playbook and like scale back their ambitions, and it's 292 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: so frustrating for them because like with every administration things, 293 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: Wax and Wayne, whereas like Tesla is the dominant player 294 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: in the US, They're going to basically be able to 295 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: sort of you know, continue that moat and they still 296 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: get a lot of funding from the IRA for manufacturing, 297 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: for installing superchargers. I mean, I could see, you know, 298 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: Tesla just basically like the credit goes away, Tesla just 299 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: slashes prices, which we've seen Elon do in the past, 300 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: and like, I don't think that the credit is that 301 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: big of a deal, to be honest, I think that 302 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: Elon would be happy to see it go away. 303 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 4: I guess I would point out that this is not 304 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 4: the only sort of industry or major tech company that 305 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 4: is almost pushing for more regulation or in this case, 306 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 4: you know, fewer benefits in order to benefit them. It's 307 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 4: sort of it's counterintuitive, right, So I would point out 308 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 4: that Meta, which owns Facebook, Instagram for years, has been saying, hey, 309 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 4: regulate us, regulate the tech, regulate the social networking industry. 310 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 4: And on the surface, you think, why would they ever 311 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 4: want more regulation? 312 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 3: Right, this would hurt them? 313 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 4: Well, it's because, as we pointed out, same with Tesla, 314 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 4: they're in such a dominant position that any regulation they 315 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 4: can deal with. They have the resources, they have the talent, 316 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 4: they have the time to deal with it easily. But 317 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 4: it will close the door for a number of competitors. 318 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 4: That will make it harder for competitors to catch. 319 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 3: Up to them. 320 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 4: Right, It's still a growing in somewhat new industry, the evs, 321 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 4: but like it's much more mature than when Elon started 322 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 4: this out right, So like there is a dominant player 323 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 4: which didn't exist when he was first going. And so 324 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 4: I think that's why this counter into a intuitive idea 325 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 4: actually makes a lot of sense for him. 326 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: Max. 327 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 5: Another thing that is helping Musk's empire is the idea 328 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 5: it's been floated or I guess Trump has said he 329 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 5: would like Brendan Carr to chair the FCC. 330 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 3: Why is this positive for elinning. 331 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: Brend And Carr is a long time Elon Musk fan, 332 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 2: and in particular he's expressed appreciation for Elon Musk in 333 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 2: all sorts of respects. But the FCC is an important 334 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: regulator for Starlink, which is a subsidiary of SpaceX. And 335 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 2: you know, one of Elon Musk's big frustrations with the 336 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: Biden administration is that there is a lot of money 337 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 2: for rural broadband internet and that money has not gone 338 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: to him. There are a couple of programs and car 339 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 2: has been very outspoken about the need. 340 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,959 Speaker 3: To change that. 341 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 2: And I actually think this is the way, like much 342 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: more than autonomous vehicles or some of these other things 343 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: that rely on a lot of hypothetical car. 344 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 3: This is a way. 345 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like a way that Elon Musk can 346 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: put money directly towards his top line, you know, revenue 347 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: from the government to Starlink. And part of the reason 348 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 2: it's more plausible is because Elon Musk has like a 349 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: real plausible case for it. 350 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, That's what I was going to ask you. Is 351 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 5: there a good inmate case that starlink deserves that money? 352 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 5: Just as much as these other companies do. 353 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: It's complicated. I've done I've done a little bit of 354 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: reporting on this, and there are there's some analysts out 355 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: there who have been looking at this and talking about 356 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: it as a possibility. Elon Musk's argument is essentially, the 357 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 2: satellites are going to get better, and no one really 358 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 2: knows how true that is or to what extent they're 359 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 2: going to get better. Are they going to get better enough? 360 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 2: And like that's kind of where the rubber meets the road. 361 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: But there is a case for satellites, like you could 362 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: roll these like give people starlinks. Is a lot cheaper 363 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 2: than laying out fiber. The question is like when you 364 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 2: try to do it on a mass scale, how does 365 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 2: that work? And I think the from a from a 366 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 2: sort of Elon point of view, he gets two things 367 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 2: out of this. One is potentially more revenue, but the 368 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: second is it slows down these traditional telecom operators that 369 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 2: we're counting on government subsidies for their own you know, 370 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: rollout of rural broadbands. So this is like a definite 371 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: win for Elon. I think it's I think Brendan Carr 372 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: is like the biggest win he's had so far, even 373 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 2: bigger than getting named as the co chair of DOGE, 374 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 2: and certainly better than these kind of you know, sort 375 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: of vague reports that the Trump administration is is you know, 376 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: sympathetic to autonomous vehicles, because because again we don't really know, 377 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: it's just a little hard to figure out how that 378 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: would benefit Elon, at least in the short term. 379 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to jump in on is 380 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: that Carr has advocated a ban on TikTok, citing national 381 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: security concerns because of China, and that could also benefit 382 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: Elon because you know, as X adds more video capacity, 383 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: they're really rivals with TikTok. So I think when we 384 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: look at all of these cabinet appointments, it's really important 385 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: to sort of think about how they benefit Musk not 386 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: just in one company, but sort of across all companies. 387 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: And Brendan Carr is going to go to the Space 388 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: Excellence today. 389 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 4: Also, it should be noted I guess that Elon has 390 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 4: claimed he doesn't want a TikTok ban, right, He's sort 391 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 4: of like, hey, this is against free speech, this would 392 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 4: be a bad thing. But as Dana very smartly points out, 393 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 4: like he's saying that in reality, I think TikTok not 394 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 4: being in picture would ultimately benefit X. So he might 395 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 4: say he doesn't want it, but when push comes to shove, 396 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 4: I'm sure he'd happily you accept a lot more attention 397 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 4: coming towards X. 398 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, more on X in a moment, Max, thank you 399 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 5: very much for bringing up DOZE, the Department of Government Efficiency. 400 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 5: We are absolutely, dear listeners, gonna be talking more about 401 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 5: DOZE in coming weeks and months. But I want to 402 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 5: Dana before we move on to X, ask you this. 403 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 5: Max earlier had said that so far the Trump Musk 404 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 5: relationship seems to be holding up just fine, and that 405 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 5: indeed seems to be the case. But at the same time, 406 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 5: there are signs of fracture or at least tension emerging, 407 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 5: reports of insiders in the Trump team bristling at how 408 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 5: Musk is acting quote as a co president to Trump. 409 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 5: And I wonder if you feel like these are just 410 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 5: initial bumps in the road and the cost of doing 411 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 5: business with Trump, or a sign that things might come 412 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 5: to a head sooner rather than later. 413 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of bs to be honest. I mean, 414 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: the Trump team is famously leaky, right and right now, 415 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: You've got all these people in mar A Lago like 416 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: jockeying for position and jockeying for power, and like you know, 417 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: there's this whole like fight about who's going to be 418 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: the Treasury secretary in different camps or leaking things to 419 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: different things, and yeah, like oh, there was like a 420 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: dust up at a dinner with like boris what's his 421 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: name or like whatever, like Trump is going to the 422 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: SpaceX launch today, Like that is what matters. Like I 423 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 1: used to cover politics, and I just don't take these 424 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of like thinly sourced reports in certain outlets that 425 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: seriously like Elon and Trump, I've been thickest thieves for 426 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: the past like six weeks, and until there's like a 427 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: real rupture, I just don't really buy it. I'm sure 428 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: that some like old school Trump loyalists are maybe bristling 429 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: at the fact that Elon is around, but like you're 430 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: seeing photographs of like Trump and Don Junior and the 431 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House and RFK and Elon like all 432 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: on the plane Enan McDonald's together, there's no rupture. I've 433 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: always just been very skeptical of a lot of political 434 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: reput because that. 435 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: Is fair, but Max. 436 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 5: Trump has on a couple of occasions, including the clip 437 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 5: we played at the beginning of the show, he has 438 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 5: publicly started taking swipes at Eline. 439 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta agree with everything down said she. 440 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, David. 441 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: I know, I know that's not what you want to hear. 442 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: But but here's the thing. Help, there are other there 443 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: are other constituencies within this transition who obviously have an 444 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 2: interest in marginalizing Elon, and and so and and there 445 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: there are other sources of power here. And and if 446 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: you just look at like the top line, like who's 447 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: at the McDonald's table, Like, I think that's a pretty 448 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: good indication. And what I will say is yes, in 449 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 2: the past and and we we get into this in 450 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: the episode that's Forthcoming of Citizen Elon. There have been 451 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 2: signs like this before where Trump is sort of preparing 452 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: to like shift someone and he will start making these 453 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: kind of cracks, right, and it's it's like a way 454 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 2: to kind of open the door. And maybe that's possible. 455 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: It could also be that it's a warning to Elon. 456 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: It's like, listen, you need to work with me, you know, 457 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 2: don't get too big for your breeches. It could also 458 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 2: be a signal to some other part of Trump's coalition 459 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: who he's trying to play Kate. We just like don't 460 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: know what is going on. And I really think there 461 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 2: are a lot of people who are like taking lessons 462 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 2: from the past Trump administration, which makes sense. But I 463 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 2: also think we need to look at Elon. And this 464 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: is not as much about to me anyway, This is 465 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 2: not as much about can Trump live in a world 466 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 2: where there's Elon Musk in his inner circle? It's can 467 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: Elon Musk be sufficiently subservient? And I think before this, 468 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 2: like last few months of political adventure with Elon, I 469 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 2: guess I would say no freaking way. But over the 470 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: last three months, Elon has proven himself willing to let 471 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: Trump lead. And until we see a difference, then you know, 472 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: I'm gonna assume that's going to continue. 473 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 3: Okay, very good, Kurt. 474 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 5: Let us talk about the Exodu users leaving X. Things 475 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 5: are going swimmingly, as we just stated, or at least 476 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 5: for the market values of many of his companies in 477 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 5: his empire, not so much right now. For X users 478 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 5: are leaving. Tell us what's going on. 479 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 3: It's this weird. 480 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 4: Sort of like Jekyl and hyde situation at X right now, 481 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 4: which is it is more politically and culturally important than 482 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 4: it has been since Elon bought the company, right like, 483 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 4: this is the most relevance X has had as a 484 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 4: social network and as a sort of distributor of Donald 485 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 4: Trump's agenda, news and information. At the same time, it 486 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 4: is probably maybe the weakest it has been from a 487 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 4: user standpoint, right because after the election, we saw all 488 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 4: of these people basically throwing in the towel on X 489 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 4: and saying I'm done with this place. And we've seen 490 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 4: that reflected in the numbers of two rivals, Meta's Threads 491 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 4: and Blue Sky, And with Blue Sky in particular, it's 492 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 4: been really interesting because Blue Sky's been around for a 493 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 4: couple of years. It had a lot of attention when 494 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 4: it first launched, and then it sort of went quiet 495 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 4: for a while. I think a lot of people were 496 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 4: just like, that's not it, that's not the place. We'll 497 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 4: just kind of let it sit over there. And it's 498 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 4: added I think it was at ten million users in September. 499 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 4: The week after the election, it added about one point 500 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 4: five million, and in the week since then, so you know, 501 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 4: week two after the election, I believe it's added about 502 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 4: five million users, and so it's now close to nineteen million, 503 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 4: up from ten million in September. As I mentioned, it's 504 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 4: almost doubled in size in just a couple of months. 505 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 4: And if you go to Blue Sky, I think the 506 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 4: most telling thing is that your feed is going to 507 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 4: be full of people basically saying, hey, I'm new here, 508 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 4: just came over from X, you know, leaving that place behind. 509 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 4: Tell me who to follow, tell me what to do, 510 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 4: like how do I use this thing? Like ha ha ha, Right, 511 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 4: But the idea being that all of these people are 512 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,959 Speaker 4: migrating to a new network because they no longer want 513 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 4: to be associated with X. And so I think that 514 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 4: that is anecdotal, of course, but I think that, paired 515 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 4: with the rising user numbers, that these two competitors sort 516 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 4: of tells a picture that you know, X is having 517 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 4: a bit of a user user growth or user retention 518 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 4: issue at the moment. 519 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: A Blue Sky has a lot of like high usage 520 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: people like Lizzo is now on Blue Sky, and epidemiologists 521 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: and climate scientists like all of my energy peeps have 522 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: moved to Blue Sky. And I think the other big 523 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: thing driving this is that X changed its term of service. 524 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: So as of November fifteenth, if you're using X, you're 525 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: basically allowing them to use your content to feed into 526 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: XAI and like language models. And so the change of 527 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: the terms of service is actually what kind of inspired 528 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people to start not just like leaving X, 529 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: but like downloading their tweets and then like deleting them. 530 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: So that's like another interesting part of this is just 531 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 1: like people realizing that they don't want elon having their content, 532 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: And I mean, Max and I go back and forth 533 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: about this a lot. I struggle with my presence on 534 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: X because on the one hand, I feel like I 535 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: need to be there because that's now where the incoming 536 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: Trump administration is, like all the cabinet people like, that's 537 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: where like a lot of people who are now going 538 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: to be in power are posting. So I feel like 539 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: I have to at least lurk. But I have also 540 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: joined blue Sky. I hope you will find me there. 541 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 3: Okay, I shall. 542 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: We need an el in ink, We need an el 543 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: on ink starter pack. 544 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 3: There we go. 545 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 5: Some X is Blue Sky's gain, X's loss or are 546 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 5: there signs that indeed they are? For every one liberal 547 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 5: user that walks out the door. They are being replaced 548 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 5: by conservatives, conservative users. And even if that's not the case, 549 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 5: does it exactly matter for X. You've drilled into my 550 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 5: head in recent weeks that we need to rethink our 551 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 5: understanding of X and its role and the Musk Empire. 552 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean both things can be true. Like Chrit said, 553 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: like he's right, X has never been more relevant, at 554 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 2: least not in the last five years than it is today. 555 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: And we don't know what the value of X is think, 556 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 2: Like we talked about this on the last episode, like 557 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 2: the models of Elon's net worth rely on fidelities mark down. 558 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 2: If I were a shareholder of X, I would be 559 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 2: marking that way the hell up because clearly, you know, 560 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 2: association with Elon amid a Trump administration, whether or not 561 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: it translates to actual you know, business, is valuable according 562 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: to the market. After the election, we saw all of 563 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: these CEOs, guys who had kind of been on the fence, 564 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 2: you know, go and sort of kiss the ring to Trump, 565 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 2: and they all did it on X, right. They all 566 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: Satyad Della Sun Dhar Pachai, Jeff Bezos, like all the 567 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: all the sort of tech guys who wanted to kiss 568 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: up to Donald Trump, went on X. They called him 569 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: President Trump even though he's president elect, and they and 570 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: of course they did it on Elon Musk's platform, and 571 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 2: so clearly it's it's like the Trump Hotel of social networks. Like, 572 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: if you want to if you want to be in 573 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: this orbit, you got to be there. And I think 574 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 2: and even even saying that probably understates it, because like 575 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: it is a really important piece of the right wing 576 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 2: media ecosystem right now, maybe the most important piece. But 577 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 2: what I'll say is, and like right wing media has 578 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: always relied on this relationship with quote unquote mainstream media, 579 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: and what X had going for it before the election 580 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 2: was you still had a lot of mainstream journalists there, 581 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 2: You had a lot of mainstream news organizations. Despite the 582 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 2: fact that Elon Musk, the owner and now key advisor 583 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 2: to the to the president elect, is going out there 584 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: every day saying really bad things about media, saying that 585 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: they're they're the opposition, they're terrible, and you know, cut 586 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 2: doing making tweaks algorithmically into the business that are harming 587 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 2: those companies' business. It's really only a matter of time 588 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: before mainstream media outlets try to find a different outlet, 589 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: and I think what we're seeing now is is some 590 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: of that happening some of these You have a lot 591 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: of journalists, a lot of media outlets suddenly like paying 592 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 2: attention to Blue Sky. And if that happens in a 593 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: big way and X doesn't respond, that I think will 594 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: hurt X in the LNE long run. Because conservative media, 595 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 2: as much as it is its own ecosystem, as much 596 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: as it is, there is a big audience there. Part 597 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 2: of what makes the most successful conservative media plays work 598 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: is that they're able to kind of straddle both sides 599 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: of it, but both the like hardcore activists as well 600 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: as kind of the middle the kind of mainstream audience. 601 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 3: Could I just add real quickly. 602 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 4: I mean, there's this idea that like, oh, is X 603 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 4: going to be relevant if it's just right leaning sort 604 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 4: of Trump fans without you know, liberal folks to poke 605 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 4: and prod or whatever. Right Like We've heard that for 606 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 4: kind of years. I would point you to truth social, right, Like, 607 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 4: what is truth social? It is right leaning Trump supporters 608 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 4: without anybody to really poke and prod. And I would 609 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 4: argue truth social other than basically being a glorified way 610 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 4: for Trump to release press releases has almost no relevance 611 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 4: in general kind of modern Internet culture, right like it 612 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 4: is truly just like Trump Press release two point zero service. 613 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 4: And so I do think for X to stay relevant, 614 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 4: they need they they sort of need, you know, people 615 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 4: from from both sides of this political spectrum to care 616 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 4: about what's happening on this service, because otherwise it does 617 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 4: become very kind of echo chamber isolated. And I'm just 618 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 4: not sure that it's going to jump off the Internet 619 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 4: onto television and radio and podcasts in the way that 620 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 4: it has historically if it becomes very very one sided. 621 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: Max. 622 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 5: So, one thing I've learned over decades covering finance is 623 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,479 Speaker 5: that marks, when you're marking the value of a private asset, 624 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 5: not a publicly traded asset, private marks are a dark art. Okay, 625 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 5: they are a dark art. And so if you know 626 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 5: what if you have, if you happen to have a 627 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 5: little cut of that, you know, stock and X, and 628 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 5: you want to mark it up, go ahead, man mark 629 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 5: that thing up. 630 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: I do think, like combo of Trump being president and 631 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 2: the meme the stock market where it is, it's not 632 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 2: out of the realm of possibility that X could return 633 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 2: to the public markets one day and even return at 634 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: evaluation that might be at least much higher than it's 635 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: current super depressed in. 636 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 3: The abstract, That does seem plausible. 637 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 5: But Kurt, are there any signs of any kind that 638 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 5: there's any buzz among the banker investing community that man, 639 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 5: let me get my hands on some of them X shares. 640 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 3: So I agree with Max. 641 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 4: I think when Fidelity comes out with its next report, 642 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 4: which will probably get to go up three weeks from 643 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 4: now or whatever, we can talk about when it does, 644 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 4: I wouldn't be I would be shocked if the value 645 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 4: is an up right, if it isn't up noticeably, only because, 646 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 4: as Max pointed out, being associated with Elon and therefore 647 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 4: being associated with Trump tends to signal we think, you know, 648 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 4: we're a buyer of this type of thing. At the 649 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 4: same time, if I'm Elon and X, the last thing 650 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 4: I think I want to do is go public right 651 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 4: now and expose for the businesses. Yeah, but I think 652 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 4: you know, this is not a strong business. I continue 653 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 4: to firmly believe that this is not a good business, 654 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 4: right like it is a good cultural weapon in some 655 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 4: in some ways for Elon and Trump. But you know, 656 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 4: there was a report, David. 657 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 3: You may have seen. 658 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 4: Last week that all of these big blue chip advertisers 659 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 4: had returned. I wrote some of them down. It was 660 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 4: like IBM, Disney, Comcast, Warner Brothers, and it was like, oh, 661 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 4: they're no longer paused. They're spending on X again, Like 662 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 4: this is huge. And then you look into the report, 663 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 4: all of those companies combined spent three point three million 664 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 4: dollars on advertising over nine months. It was down ninety 665 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 4: eight percent from twenty twenty three. So my point being 666 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 4: is that even though they're trying to create. 667 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 3: Like wait a minute, well what about the cheach and 668 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 3: chong gummies? What about then? Tell me about the cheaching 669 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 3: chong gum, you are single handedly keeping those guys afloat. David. 670 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 3: We've talked about this. You need to stop those place chechicheng. 671 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 4: I feel like I'll get off my soapbox here, but 672 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 4: I just feel like the idea that this is a 673 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 4: strong business is yet to be Maybe I will be wrong, 674 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 4: and we've all been proven wrong by Elon at one 675 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 4: point or another, and this will be my big hill 676 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 4: that I die on. 677 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 3: But I don't believe right. 678 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 4: Now that this is a very strong business and it's 679 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 4: not something you would want to say, Hey, let's open 680 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 4: up our books, let's go public, let's let investors get 681 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 4: a look at how this is actually going, because I 682 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 4: don't think it would go down with that. 683 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 5: I think then indeed the company has much greater value 684 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 5: for Elon and his empire as a private, small, private 685 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 5: entity within it that does access it to media. 686 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,439 Speaker 3: Arm I am. 687 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 5: Being told by our producer Magnus that we are skipping. 688 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 3: The feud or skipping the feud we don't have time 689 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 3: for it. 690 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 4: Sounds like there is a feud you and the producers. 691 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 5: We have to let every once in a while we 692 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 5: have to listen to Magnus, Kurt, Dana, Max, thank you 693 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 5: very much for joining. 694 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 4: Great to be here, Thanks for having us. 695 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: Always a pleasure. 696 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,439 Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. 697 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 5: Anna Masarrakas is our editor and Rayhan Harmancier, senior editor. 698 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 5: The idea for this every show also came from Rayhon 699 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 5: Blake Maple's Handles Engineering and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our 700 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 5: supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson. 701 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 3: The Elon Inc. 702 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 5: Theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugijira, 703 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 5: Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman 704 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 5: is ahead of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always 705 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 5: to our supporters Joe Weber and Brad Stone. 706 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 3: I'm David Papadopoulos. 707 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 5: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 708 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 5: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week. 709 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to the Elon Inc. Podcast. If you 710 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 5: never want to miss a story, become a Bloomberg dot 711 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 5: com subscriber today. Check out our special intro offer right 712 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 5: now at Bloomberg dot com Backslash Podcast Offer or click 713 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 5: the link in the show notes. You'll also unlock deep 714 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 5: reporting data and analysis from reporters around the world.