1 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: And we returned to our American stories. Charles Carroll might 2 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: be the most overlooked signer of the Declaration of Independence. 3 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: A devout Catholic, he overcame religious prejudice and the difficulties 4 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: of establishing a new nation, and in doing so became 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: one of the most respected and wealthiest men in colonial America. 6 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: You to tell the story of this forgotten founder is 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: professor of history at Hillsdale College, doctor Bradley Burser. He's 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: also the author of American Cicero, The Life of Charles Carroll. 9 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: Let's get into the story. 10 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: Charles Carroll is definitely one of the more forgotten Founding fathers, 11 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: and I think that's unfortunate, because there's so much about 12 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: his story that really tells us a lot about the 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: greater understanding of him America. Charles Carroll of Carrollton for 14 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: no other reason. He's the only one who signs his 15 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: name with an aristocratic feel to it, right of Carrollton 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: at the end of it. But he's the only Roman 17 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: Catholic signer of the Declaration, and I think that that 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: speaks volumes about the nature of American Christianity at the 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: time of the Founding. Certainly there were very few Roman 20 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: Catholics at all, and those that did exist were distrusted 21 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 2: by the larger population, which understandably, we know that almost 22 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: all of the Englishmen who settled in the North American 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: colonies were coming out of the English Reformation itself, and 24 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: so they had a very deep connection to reformational theology, 25 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: and they hadn't met that many Catholics, because the Reformation 26 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: in England was really about those who were somewhat pro 27 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: Catholic without wanting a poe, and those who wanted to 28 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: purify the Church of its Catholicism, that is, the Puritans. 29 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: So there weren't really Catholics that were still coming along, 30 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: but there were images of Catholics that still existed, kind 31 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: of shadows of Catholics, if you will, And so Catholicism 32 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: could still be seen as a kind of boogeyman because 33 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 2: of all of these people coming out of the Reformation. 34 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: And so Charles Carroll of Carrollton really had to ride 35 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: through that distrust. He had to overcome it, and he 36 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: had to prove himself in some way, and he does 37 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: in actually a variety of ways. But there were certainly 38 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 2: a number of things that we can think about with 39 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 2: Charles Carroll that made him important. Not only was he 40 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: the only Roman Catholic signer of the Declaration, but he 41 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: was one of the founders of the Maryland Constitution, and 42 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: in particular, Maryland Senate that he designed was seen as 43 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: the model for the American Senate. So in Federalist Paper 44 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: number sixty three you have Madison saying our model for 45 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: the US Senate is the Maryland Senate, which means that 46 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 2: Charles Carroll was really the fountain head, the touchstone beyond. 47 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 3: All of that. 48 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: So, yeah, there are a lot of things that we 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: could think about that when we think about Charles Carroll 50 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: that he contributed to America. Even parts of Washington, d c. 51 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: Sit on land that was formerly his. There's at least 52 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,399 Speaker 2: the one stop, the metro stop Carrollton, and a lot 53 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: of that property was Charles Carroll's. Charles Carroll, because he 54 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: was a Catholic, always had a disadvantage when it came 55 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: to his relations with the other founders. And my favorite 56 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: is always John Adams. John Adams loved Charles Carroll, but 57 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: every time Charles Carroll walked into a room, Adams would 58 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: record it in his diary. But it would always be 59 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: that papist. Charles Carroll has just walked into the room. 60 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: That papist has signed the Declaration of Independence. And I 61 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: don't think it's meant to be a jab It's just 62 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: a descriptive. He was that papist. It was always this marker, 63 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: that is Charles Carroll could never just be Charles Carroll. 64 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: He was always Charles Carroll the papist. I do think 65 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: George Washington didn't see him that way. I think George Washington, 66 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: who had relied on Carroll, relied on his money, saw 67 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: him as a close ally. We know that Thomas Jefferson 68 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: greatly respected Carol and used him for all kinds of 69 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: financial advice. They had a very close friendship. Alexander Hamilton 70 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: really liked Carroll as well. In fact, Hamilton was trying 71 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: to get Carol to run for the presidency in seventeen 72 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: ninety six, when George Washington would have completed his two terms. 73 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: And that's pretty shocking to imagine even the possibility of 74 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 2: a Catholic president as early as our second president of 75 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 2: the United States. Not possible, of course, but pretty amazing. 76 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: Hamilton thought that highly of him. So yeah, Carol was 77 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: really well respected at the time. Starting in seventeen seventy four, 78 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: a number of what we might call proper governmental institutions 79 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: began to fall apart. And we can see this through 80 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: the intolerable and the coercive acts that were being passed 81 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: by Britain. Britain was really putting the restraints on the 82 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: American colonies. And one reaction of the American colonies was 83 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: simply to create what they called extra legal governments. That is, 84 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: they would create committees or they would create their own legislatures. 85 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: And so one of my favorite stories of these is Maryland. 86 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: Maryland has what was called the First Convention in Annapolis, 87 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: and basically this was in seventeen seventy four. A number 88 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 2: of people get together. These are men who feel like 89 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: they've not been able to express their wishes in the 90 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: legitimate Maryland Assembly. 91 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 3: So they meet as a group and they begin having 92 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 3: political discussions, and it's pretty clear by the end of 93 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: the First Convention that this is the legitimate Maryland government. 94 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: And so they meet again, and they meet again, and 95 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 2: they meet again, and Governor Eden realizes after a certain 96 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: amount of time that there's no sense in him dealing 97 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: with the actual legislature because all the real power is 98 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: in these conventions, and Charles Carroll was very much a 99 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: part of that, creating again what we might call extra 100 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 2: legal government. And yet if we think about it in 101 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: the larger scheme of things, it's not that surprising. The 102 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: First Continental Congress is an extra legal government, the Second 103 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: Continental Congress is an extra legal government. The Constitutional Convention 104 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 2: is an extra legal government. These were all in some 105 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: ways not quite legitimate, but not illegitimate either, and they 106 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: become legitimate nearly by the great weight that they carry 107 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 2: into the communities. One of my favorite stories with Maryland 108 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: is they finally decided that they didn't need Governor Eden 109 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: any longer, and so Governor Eden was trying to govern 110 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: from his ship out in the harbor in Annapolis, and 111 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: he would send men in with notes, and the notes 112 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: would be taken back to him, and he would try 113 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: to run the government this way, and finally the Convention 114 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: of Annapolis just sends Eden about six to eight weeks 115 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: worth of food and tells him that his services are 116 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: done and that they thank him for it, but it's 117 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: time for him to go back to Britain. They no 118 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: longer have use of him. And again, that's just shocking 119 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: to think about how these governments worked. Now those could 120 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: become dangerous as well, because you can imagine in these conventions, 121 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: and many states had them, you always had a synthesis 122 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: of monarchical and aristocratic and democratic powers all at once. 123 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: There was no real separation of government. So Charles Carroll 124 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: was not only famous for promoting the conventions at the beginning, 125 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: but then he became equally famous in seventeen seventy six 126 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: when he published a series of letters under the name 127 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: CX and he said, it's now very much time for 128 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: us to write proper constitutions and for us to get 129 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: rid of these constitutional conventions, because we now run the 130 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: risk of them becoming tyrannical, replacing what was tyrannical. 131 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: And you've been listening to doctor Bradley Burser, professor of 132 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: history at Hillsdale College, telling the story of Charles Carroll, 133 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: who maybe the most overlooked signer of the Declaration of 134 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: Independence and the only Catholic signer Christianity at the time. 135 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: By the way, in America, as doctor Burzer pointed out, 136 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: was mostly filled with folks from the Reformation movement of England, 137 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: and of course that left Catholics out for the most part. 138 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: And they were seen with a level of distrust in 139 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: America and discrimination. And it's a point of Carol's character 140 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: he was able to win over the trust of so 141 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: many in the colonies. When we come back more of 142 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: this remarkable story, the story of Charles Carroll, and also 143 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: the story of religion in America and Christianity in early America, 144 00:09:28,200 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: here on our American stories, and we returned to our 145 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: American stories, and with the story of Charles Carroll, the 146 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: only Catholic design the Declaration of Independence. You're again. It's 147 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: professor of history at Hillsdale College and the author of 148 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: American Cicero, doctor Bradley Burson. 149 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: So Charles Carroll, because he was Catholic, could not be 150 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: raised properly by his family. In Maryland. It was illegal 151 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: to raise your children in a quote unquote Catholic fashion, 152 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: and if you attempted to, your child would be taken 153 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: away from you and sent to a Protestant family. In England, 154 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: this is one of the most draconian laws in colonial America. 155 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 2: So at the age of eleven, Charles Carroll was sent 156 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 2: to France to be educated by Jesuits. And he ends 157 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: up going over to France for seventeen years along with 158 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 2: his cousin John Carroll, whom I mentioned earlier, will become 159 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: the first archbishop in North America. Charlie and Jackie as 160 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: they were known, And so Charlie and Jackie went over 161 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 2: to France again for seventeen years. They earned the equivalent 162 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: at least Charles did. He earned the equivalent of an 163 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: MA in Platonic philosophy, and then he went on and 164 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: got law degrees as well. So he's actually among the 165 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: American founders by the way that we would mark what 166 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 2: degrees have been earned, he's actually one of the highest 167 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: degree earning Americans, among the founders, because of his MA 168 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: and then his law degrees. But he loved of all 169 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: the people that he studied in the Western tradition, and 170 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: he studied everyone from Socrates to Plato, to Aristotle, to Cicero, 171 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: to Saint Augustine, to Thomas Aquinas to Sir Thomas Moore. 172 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: Of all the figures that he had studied, he loved Cicero, 173 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: and so Cicero was always right there for him in 174 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: everything he did. Cicero not only as a model of statesmanship, 175 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: but as a model of the intellect as well. And 176 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: so I took the title American Cicero from one of 177 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: the last statements that Charles Carroll made. He was asked, 178 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: because he was in his nineties, if he felt lonely 179 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: because he was the last of the signers to be alive, 180 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: and he said, well, no, I've got my two best friends. 181 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: I have Jesus and I have Cicero. I talked to 182 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: them always, and they talked to me. And so I 183 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: love that idea of Charles Carroll being this great Western figure, 184 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: being completely in line with the liberal arts tradition of 185 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: the West, and being very Ciceronian. I think there are 186 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: probably other founders. I think of someone like Nathan Hale, 187 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 2: who actually gave his life for the Founding, that may 188 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: qualify more as an American Cicero. But I still think 189 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 2: that Charles Carroll has at least some claim. 190 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: To the title. 191 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: Another thing about Charles Carroll that people have found fascinating 192 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 2: is his wealth. He was extremely wealthy. Some people argue 193 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: that he was the single wealthiest man in North America 194 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: along with his father and his father will pass away 195 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: in seventeen eighty two, but prior to that, his father 196 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 2: was also Charles Carroll, but he was Charles Carroll of 197 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: Annapolis rather than Charles Carroll of Carrollton. They made a 198 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: formidable team. And one of the interesting things about all 199 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 2: of this is that Maryland forbade Catholics from participating in 200 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 2: politics or participating in law. So as a Roman Catholic, 201 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: I would not be allowed into a law court to 202 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: represent myself, even to speak for myself. I certainly would 203 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: not have been let into a political body at all. 204 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: But the one thing that Catholics could do was they 205 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: could own property. And you find this same story with 206 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: Judaism during the Middle Ages that you find with Catholicism 207 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: in Maryland. The Catholics absolutely took advantage of being able 208 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: to own property, and so they bought and they sold property, 209 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: They served as banks for other property owners. So this 210 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: one restriction that didn't exist on them they took to 211 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: the fullest advantage. And again the same thing that Jews 212 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: did during the Middle Ages when they were forbidden from 213 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: being a part of usury and so forth, they used 214 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: this to their economic advantage. So Charles Carroll and his 215 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: father were immensely wealthy on the eve of the American Revolution, 216 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: and Carol spends a lot of his money on the 217 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 2: American Founding, supporting the American Founding, supporting George Washington. And 218 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: he loses a lot of his property during the founding 219 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: as well, so he really puts his money on the line. 220 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 2: In all of this, Charles Carroll represents something unusual. He 221 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: represents a lone Catholic, or one of two or three 222 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: Catholics in a Protestant world. But one of the things 223 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: that Charles Carroll loved to remind his fellow compatriots of 224 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: was that when they talked of natural law, when they 225 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: talked of natural rights, when they talked of the Magna Carta, 226 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: when they talked of common law, they were really all 227 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: talking about Catholic history. That is, the Magna Carta, the 228 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: greatest document political document signed in the Middle Ages, was 229 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: an absolutely Roman Catholic document. And so by the time 230 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: we get to the Protestants of the American Revolution, most 231 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: Protestants see themselves as really having a heritage of liberty. 232 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: But as Carol reminded us, that heritage is one that 233 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 2: they inherited from the Catholics. And so I think that's 234 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: a great reminder for all of us. Then, when we 235 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: think about those things that mean so much to us, 236 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: as Americans again, natural rights, natural law, common law, all 237 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: of these things. These are deeply rooted in our Catholic 238 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: European past, and there's just no way to get around 239 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: that at all. In eighteen twenty six, July fourth of 240 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: eighteen twenty six, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams passed away, 241 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: which seemed miraculous to Americans that they would die within 242 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 2: hours of each other on the fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration. 243 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: I mentioned too that Charles Carroll lives on until November 244 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: November fourteenth of eighteen thirty two. During that time he 245 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 2: got to meet Alexis to Touville. I love that that 246 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: Totaukville was here on his big trip and interviewed Charles 247 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: Carroll as one of his great subjects for democracy in America. 248 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: But I also love that when Charles Carroll died, there 249 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: were two newspaper headlines that went out across the United States. 250 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 2: One is the last of the Romans has passed into eternity, 251 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 2: and the other was a great man in Israel is dead. 252 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 2: And I love that idea that somehow Charles Carroll was 253 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 2: both a Jewish prophet and a Roman demigod in some 254 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 2: way to me that perfectly sums up his life and 255 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: what he gave to the American experiment. 256 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling 257 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: by our own Gavin Listrof, a Hillsdale College student. And 258 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: also a special thanks to doctor Bradley Burser, a professor 259 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: of history at Hillsdale College. And we tell lots of 260 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: stories thanks to Hillsdale College. They're proud sponsors of this 261 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: show and we couldn't do it without them. Go to 262 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Hillsdale dot edu to take all of their terrific and 263 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: free online courses. Their storytelling is remarkable, their teaching even better. 264 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: Learn about all the good and beautiful things in life 265 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: in American history, economics, and so much more. Go to 266 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: Hillsdale dot edu. And what a story. The fact that 267 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: Charles Carroll, well, it was illegal for him to be 268 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: raised as a Catholic, so he was sent off to 269 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: be educated in Paris by Jesuits for seventeen years and 270 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 1: as a citizen, couldn't be a member of the bar 271 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: or be in politics. But crafty as he was, he 272 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: learned how to amass great wealth and how to use 273 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: that wealth to fund the American Revolution and to be 274 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: a central part of America's ideas and intellectual history, and 275 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: in the founding and formation of our government. The story 276 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: of Charles Carroll, the only Catholic signer of the Declaration 277 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: of Independence. Here are now American stories