WEBVTT - As If We Had Been Imprisoned: The Migrant Reception Center

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today,

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<v Speaker 2>I just did want to make you aware that I

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<v Speaker 2>conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, and

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<v Speaker 2>then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing is

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<v Speaker 2>a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content.

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<v Speaker 2>I hope you enjoyed the episode. At some of you

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<v Speaker 2>recognize the audio that we opened this show with, and

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<v Speaker 2>then if you won't, it's a sample from the fourth

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<v Speaker 2>Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle that Manuchow used to open

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<v Speaker 2>his shows with. It's a piece of music that's very

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<v Speaker 2>emotive for me. Obviously, I'm a white leftist guy in

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<v Speaker 2>my thirties who learned Spanish and decided to live in Barcelona.

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<v Speaker 2>So I have a story about running into Manuchow once

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<v Speaker 2>where he was busking, but that's not what I want

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<v Speaker 2>to share today. Because I'm technology challenged, I can't seem

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<v Speaker 2>to get my phone to download songs, but I've managed

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<v Speaker 2>to download the same Manuchow playlist, and I ripped off

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<v Speaker 2>a rewriteable CD when I was in high school and

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<v Speaker 2>put it on the various headphones and garment and watch

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<v Speaker 2>it that I've had of the last two decades or so.

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<v Speaker 2>When I'm away for work, I like to run whenever

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<v Speaker 2>I can. Obviously, I wasn't just going to go for

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<v Speaker 2>a jog straight into the Darien Gap. But once we

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<v Speaker 2>were out of Bajajiqito, it gave me some time to

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<v Speaker 2>run and think and process the things that I've seen.

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<v Speaker 2>And while I do that, I listen to the same

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<v Speaker 2>does not al so MP three files. I was listening

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<v Speaker 2>to this song one day after I got back from

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<v Speaker 2>LaaS Blancas as I sweated my way up ahead in

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<v Speaker 2>the rainforest, hoping to see a sloth. I didn't see

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<v Speaker 2>a sloth, but it seemed like an appropriate soundtrack. Manuchow

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<v Speaker 2>himself is a child of refugees from Francoist Spain. He

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<v Speaker 2>sings in French and Spanish, while off and Galician and Portuguese,

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<v Speaker 2>among other languages, often several of them in the same song,

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<v Speaker 2>the product of growing up among other migrants of diverse backgrounds.

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<v Speaker 2>I like the way he plays with language because it

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<v Speaker 2>reminds me of the way I so often speak to

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<v Speaker 2>my friends Spanglish, for example, or Frannglais. It's the way

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<v Speaker 2>people talk in border regions and refugee camps, languages that

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<v Speaker 2>don't have the support of a state or the academy,

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<v Speaker 2>but nonetheless convey so much meaning for so many people.

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<v Speaker 2>That song in particular reminds me of my first time

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<v Speaker 2>reading about Zapatismo in a tiny anarchist cafe in the

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<v Speaker 2>West Midlands. I remember struck as a kid from Europe

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<v Speaker 2>who would frequently drive to France or Belgium to race

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<v Speaker 2>bikes and buy cheap beer. That the USA still maintained

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<v Speaker 2>a fortified border with Mexico. People couldn't travel freely, but

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<v Speaker 2>money could. It was its realization and the writings in

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<v Speaker 2>particular Soucomante Marcos, along with my talks in Spain to

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<v Speaker 2>old anarchists, that encouraged me to learn Spanish, which I

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<v Speaker 2>pursued by spending months in Spain and Venezuela and learning

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<v Speaker 2>thanks to the patient to the people around me. It

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<v Speaker 2>was a new anarchism which came from the periphery, not

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<v Speaker 2>only a liberal corps, which gave me my first serious politics.

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<v Speaker 2>I traveled to Venezuela to understand the revolution there. I

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<v Speaker 2>did a PhD to try and understand the revolution in Spain.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all very well understanding things, but I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>much more important to do things, and I tried to

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<v Speaker 2>practice mutual aid as much as I can. Since I

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<v Speaker 2>got back from the daddy En, I've loaded up a

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<v Speaker 2>heavy backpack and carried water into the desert and spent

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<v Speaker 2>hours trying to connect the friends I made in the

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<v Speaker 2>jungle with services along the way. In the face of

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<v Speaker 2>so much cruelty, it's good to be doing something to

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<v Speaker 2>help and carrying the waters away. I can make a

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<v Speaker 2>material difference in a terrible situation. But in all my

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<v Speaker 2>time reporting, I've really never felt as disempowered and helpless

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<v Speaker 2>as I did in Last Blancas. Here at the first

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<v Speaker 2>official migrant reception center after Daddi Enne. The Panamanian government

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<v Speaker 2>registers migrants NGOs, offer a few services, and the US

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<v Speaker 2>funded process of deportation for migrants from Colombia, Cuba, Venezuela

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<v Speaker 2>and India begins. Some of those sent to India might

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<v Speaker 2>well be Nepalese who often travel on fake Indian passports.

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<v Speaker 2>The Siddle cluster of cheap tents, shipping container offices, un shelters,

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<v Speaker 2>and barbed wire fences is where the rubber meets a

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<v Speaker 2>road for the USA's border and migration policy, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>heartbreaking to witness as migrants were called up to the

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<v Speaker 2>security office to begin the deportation process. I tried to

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<v Speaker 2>narrate the scene into my voice recorder, but I struggled,

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<v Speaker 2>in part because their family members asked me questions, hoping

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<v Speaker 2>I can help. Yeah, plankings on a say, But in

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<v Speaker 2>a larger part this was also difficult because I couldn't help,

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<v Speaker 2>and I deeply wanted to. The best I could offer

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<v Speaker 2>was an arm around someone's shoulder and the promise to

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<v Speaker 2>email anyone who I could think of and ask what

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<v Speaker 2>was going on. This guy's just sobbing. Ah. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 2>really tough. Some people's parents, some people's partners, And I'll

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<v Speaker 2>explain exactly what was happening in a moment, but first

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<v Speaker 2>I want to explain how I got here. On the

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<v Speaker 2>day we left Maragante, we set off at the same

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<v Speaker 2>time some migrants who are making their own journey to

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<v Speaker 2>last Blankets is carrying only myself and my fixed daddy

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<v Speaker 2>and Aguero. So we're moving a lot faster than the

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<v Speaker 2>boats full of migrants on the way north. We passed them,

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<v Speaker 2>they smiled waves. We rode by many of them had

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<v Speaker 2>met me the day before. All of them were ecstatic

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<v Speaker 2>to have survived to daddy En and be heading north.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's a pretty busy stretch of river that's

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<v Speaker 2>probably three or four piaguas full of migrants. Hello, there,

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<v Speaker 2>kids shanging and men taught them some English words yesterday

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<v Speaker 2>and they're shouting them back to me today, which is nice.

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<v Speaker 2>I got it family from Panama. They might be Indio

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<v Speaker 2>people or something. They little Bill shocked to the whole scene.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we are patting another bit agua. Now they're all

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<v Speaker 2>waving in me. It's got to be uncomfortable. Pack that

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<v Speaker 2>dancy into a bi agua one, two, three, four or five, six, seven,

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<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirty forty sixteen people. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>once they boath arrived, they did embark in Las Blancas.

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<v Speaker 2>The next day. I was there to meet them. They're

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<v Speaker 2>just walking into LaaS Blancas. It's hectic here. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>a new shop here, and outside the shop they've made

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<v Speaker 2>like a line of outlets to charge people. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>dollar an hour to charge your telephone. As we go in,

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<v Speaker 2>there are a row of like kind of sheds which

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<v Speaker 2>represent shops and then further in every ngo has its

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<v Speaker 2>own little kind of shed. They're all covered in tarps.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like canvas and tarp tents. Actually here so see

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<v Speaker 2>UNISEF see oh I am. Yeah, they have that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of little tent office here. I guess see here as

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<v Speaker 2>for example has route information, psychological supports. They space for women,

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<v Speaker 2>WUNISEF has. There's some workshops for children. And then in

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<v Speaker 2>the hours, I guess, nice little chairs in there, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>seas then you can't take photographs in there, which is good. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And then it's just a crowd of people coming out.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's also Mormon, little little Mormon situation.

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<v Speaker 3>Yea.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess thee O I am are supported by Church

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<v Speaker 2>of Jesus Christ on that today saints. Then the Red

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<v Speaker 2>Cross has got a shipping container. I've been hoping last

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<v Speaker 2>Black Guests would be a better scene than Bajugito, with

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<v Speaker 2>more organized sleeping arrangements and hopefully basic necessities like clean water,

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<v Speaker 2>food and Wi Fi provided by their numerous NGOs who

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<v Speaker 2>work there. But if anything, it was worse in Bahjigito.

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<v Speaker 2>In Bajuquito, migrants were exhausted but also ecstatic to be

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<v Speaker 2>at the jungle. Then you they'll be moving forward the

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<v Speaker 2>next day, and for a few bucks they can get

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<v Speaker 2>anythink they needed in the village. The locals told me

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<v Speaker 2>that if kids didn't have the money to eat, they

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<v Speaker 2>fed them for free. I didn't see this, but nobody

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<v Speaker 2>seem like they're having a very hard time in any

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<v Speaker 2>of the days have visited the village, at least not

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<v Speaker 2>for financial reasons. Magots can get as far as Baho

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<v Speaker 2>Jiguito on a few hundred dollars in their tenasty. They

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<v Speaker 2>pay Columbian guides a few hundred bucks to bring them

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<v Speaker 2>across the ocean from Necopie and to walk them from

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<v Speaker 2>the border, and they parried Embarra Perraguero's twenty five bucks

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<v Speaker 2>for a ride up the river. But once they get

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<v Speaker 2>to last Blankerts. For a good number of migrants, their

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<v Speaker 2>journey grinds to a halt. Many of them told me

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<v Speaker 2>they've been stuck in the camp for weeks or even

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<v Speaker 2>months because they couldn't get that sixty dollars that they

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<v Speaker 2>needed to pay for their travel north. There's no Western

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<v Speaker 2>Union in the camp, and the only way to transfer

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<v Speaker 2>money is very local interomediay who charges between twenty and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five percent of the sum being transferred as a fee.

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<v Speaker 2>In the morning, migrants arrive on their peraguas, just as

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<v Speaker 2>we did. I drop down the boat ramp when I

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<v Speaker 2>them to help with their bags, and I'll go about their

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<v Speaker 2>journey from there. They formed two lines, one for men

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<v Speaker 2>and one for women and children. They have their bag

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<v Speaker 2>search and their passport checked. They're given a welcome kit

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<v Speaker 2>for the Red Cross with some basic necessities toilet paper,

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<v Speaker 2>a toothbrush, some soap, stuff like that, or some of

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<v Speaker 2>them get a kid. When the kids ran out, it

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<v Speaker 2>was long before the line of people did. By the

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<v Speaker 2>time the men were finished, they were given little more

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<v Speaker 2>than a shrug and good wishes better Red Cross volunteers

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<v Speaker 2>and allowed to head off into the camp. Within the camp,

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<v Speaker 2>there are a few rows of small casitas that are

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<v Speaker 2>allocated to u accompany children and families. They're little more

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<v Speaker 2>than four walls in a roof, but they offer a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of privacy for most migrants, though there isn't space

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<v Speaker 2>and they have to search for a spot of empty

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<v Speaker 2>ground in the crowded camp where they can pitch the

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<v Speaker 2>same tents they bought a neckockley the Wi FI which

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<v Speaker 2>a Red Cross usually provides, wasn't working when I arrived,

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<v Speaker 2>so I had to let people hot spot off my

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<v Speaker 2>phone all day. At least the promised food really was free,

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<v Speaker 2>but the migrant told me it was far from good. Still,

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<v Speaker 2>this is supposed to be a temporary camp. People register here,

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<v Speaker 2>get any medical attention they need, and then move forward

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<v Speaker 2>to Costa Rica. That's the theory anyway. In practice, if

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<v Speaker 2>you can't get the sixty bucks, you need to move forward,

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<v Speaker 2>or someone stole it for me in the jungle, or

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<v Speaker 2>you are forced to walk to the camp because you

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<v Speaker 2>didn't have twenty five bucks for the boat and then

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<v Speaker 2>someone rubbed you. Then you're stuck.

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<v Speaker 1>We have been here a month. You have people who've

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<v Speaker 1>been here a month and a half. I've been twenty

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<v Speaker 1>seven days here. Well, I thank god because we have

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<v Speaker 1>three meals a day. We have water, but it still

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<v Speaker 1>hurts the girls. The food and water always make me

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<v Speaker 1>sick with diarrhea. It bothers me. I vomit and the

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<v Speaker 1>heat is so desperate. But we have to hold on

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<v Speaker 1>because even though we don't have the resources, like we

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<v Speaker 1>don't have enough to pay for a ticket, we have

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<v Speaker 1>to hold on here a little longer. We don't have

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<v Speaker 1>any family members can give us support.

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<v Speaker 2>Either what's keeping the migrants here is money, or rather

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<v Speaker 2>a lack of bit. They need sixty bucks to leave.

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<v Speaker 2>Buses used to take five free passengers per bus, but

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<v Speaker 2>under Panama's new regime, it seems like they don't. Instead,

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<v Speaker 2>migrants just gradually a mass in growing number of tents

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<v Speaker 2>that populate the grassy areas of Las Blankets. They might

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<v Speaker 2>try and do some informal work. I saw one guy

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<v Speaker 2>who was cutting hair for a dollar a time, but

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't really get a satisfactory response to what they're

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<v Speaker 2>expected to do. If they don't have the money and

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<v Speaker 2>can't get someone to send us seventy five dollars, they'd

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<v Speaker 2>need to cover their travel costs and the twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>percent transfer.

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<v Speaker 1>Feel if you're short ten dollars, they don't put you

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<v Speaker 1>on the bus or anything. So things are terrible here.

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<v Speaker 1>There should at least be support for migrants who at

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<v Speaker 1>least come with few resources. They don't have money or anything.

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<v Speaker 1>They can search your bags so they can see that

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<v Speaker 1>you're not lying that you don't have money. Because nobody

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<v Speaker 1>wants to be stuck here, you have to move forward

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<v Speaker 1>because nobody wants to be stuck here in Panama. The

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<v Speaker 1>idea is to move forward to get further ahead. We

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<v Speaker 1>brought our children to look for a future, not to

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<v Speaker 1>be locked up here in Panama, as if we've been

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<v Speaker 1>in prisoned.

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.880
<v Speaker 2>The group even tried to leave on foot, hoping to

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.160
<v Speaker 2>begin walking north, and so it's for better future and

0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.600
<v Speaker 2>a way to make money on their way. But they

0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.199
<v Speaker 2>were caught, they say, and returned to the camera.

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 1>And they beat me hard. I gave myself up because

0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.839
<v Speaker 1>they had caught her, a grandmother with my other daughter.

0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.320
<v Speaker 1>I returned myself voluntarily and they beat me up anyway,

0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 1>and from there we've lost the desire to walk back there.

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 1>What can we do rights? They don't care about them.

0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 1>We are human beings, but we don't have rights here

0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:49.400
<v Speaker 1>in Panama.

0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.560
<v Speaker 2>They do have the money. Margarets could take a bus

0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 2>to the Costa Rican border when the busts first arrived.

0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:57.880
<v Speaker 2>I tried to describe the scene as migrants rushed to

0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 2>buy food, not only for this journey, but also so

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 2>for their journey through Costa Rica, where food and other

0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 2>basics are much more expensive. I'm here in Lahablancas when

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.559
<v Speaker 2>the first buses have arrived. It's about noon. The first

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:11.800
<v Speaker 2>bus is going to be followed people who had been

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.480
<v Speaker 2>waiting in line for hours already, so they're kind of

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:15.560
<v Speaker 2>lining up by the bus.

0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 1>And then.

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 2>The next bus is people seem to be kind of

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.680
<v Speaker 2>rushing to get to them. They're rushing to my food.

0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I can just see this guy has like an entire

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 2>carrier bag full of pink Way for biscuits and coke bottles,

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 2>that that's going to be his food for the next

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 2>eleven hours. I guess other guys will see with bags

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 2>of bread rolls and stuff, and they're the first people

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:41.200
<v Speaker 2>are getting on the bus. Now, these buses aren't entirely safe.

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty three, forty two people died in a

0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 2>bus crash. This year, seventeen were intured in a crash

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.920
<v Speaker 2>in August. Now, migration offices ride in each bus with

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>the migrants to check on safety protocols and make sure

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 2>they don't get off anywhere else in the country just

0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>like everywhere else on their journey. People make money off

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.760
<v Speaker 2>the migrants in last blankets. A bus costs sixty dollars

0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 2>ahead and has fifty five passages three thousand, three hundred

0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.760
<v Speaker 2>dollars a bus. More than a dozen buses leave every day.

0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.800
<v Speaker 2>They even half of a thousand or so people who

0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.240
<v Speaker 2>arrived us a transfer service to get their bus fare.

0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 2>That's seven five hundred dollars in transfer fees alone. Of course,

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 2>not everyone in the community is making thousands of dollars

0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 2>off the migrants. I interviewed local shopkeeper who still sits

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>just outside the camp gates, and I asked him to

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 2>explain his stock, which included the oddly popular I backed

0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 2>the blue, thin blue Lion T shirt. So I'd seen

0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 2>several people across the daddy and gap.

0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 4>In Okayamo only fucking money.

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 2>I asked him what was the most common shopping list

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 2>for migrants see Cassie.

0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.120
<v Speaker 5>Yes, almost all of them coming by sets for ten, fifteen,

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 5>twenty dollars. It depends there are many who don't have them.

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 5>I have children's sets for five dollars. I have sets

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 5>for five dollars that are pants and sweaters, which is

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.560
<v Speaker 5>what they're looking for the most. Those that are socks

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.280
<v Speaker 5>without underwear, backpacks for fifteen dollars because the backpack is

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 5>so worn out and they need it so much that

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 5>it carries their belongings. Look it's not really everyone who

0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 5>can buy. There are certain people who buy, of course,

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 5>if everyone bought, but there are very few who can

0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 5>buy something to leave here. Almost seventy percent leave dirty

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 5>because they don't have anywhere to get money, and the

0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 5>little they can get often comes from selling their phones,

0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.280
<v Speaker 5>their watch, a cap, or their sneakers to be able

0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 5>to get money to pay for their fare to keep going.

0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 2>I asked him how the migration had impacted the community.

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.840
<v Speaker 2>With people making a lot of money, I asked, were

0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 2>they mad about the trash and the pollution of the river.

0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 2>These are legitimate concerns, even if they're used in bad

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 2>faith against the migrants.

0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.760
<v Speaker 5>Now, you're so much effect though nobody is perfect, but

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.400
<v Speaker 5>I can tell you one thing. Honestly, the migrants suffer

0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 5>a lot to be able to carry out this journey.

0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 5>And there are many times when I've even had to

0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 5>give them clothes, some because they don't have any. And well,

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.640
<v Speaker 5>when a father and family with children comes, what can

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 5>I say, Look, I have a family, I.

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 4>Have to do this. Yeah.

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:08.879
<v Speaker 2>I asked him what he felt the solution was to

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 2>the suffering here, the damage done both to people and planet.

0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:17.920
<v Speaker 5>Okay, I say that oppressing people so that they don't

0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.359
<v Speaker 5>go through the dairy. And it's not the solution because

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.000
<v Speaker 5>if you put it to the point, even if they

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.880
<v Speaker 5>don't know an exact percentage, the immigrant gives the economy

0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 5>of the United States a balance because the people born there.

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.119
<v Speaker 5>Not to criticize them, people born there want a stable

0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.879
<v Speaker 5>job and he doesn't want to feel like he's very,

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.400
<v Speaker 5>very low. However, the immigrant is there and he's picking fruit,

0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.840
<v Speaker 5>going to the fruit trees, going to the vegetable fields,

0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.639
<v Speaker 5>going to the garbage dumps, going picking up things that

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.720
<v Speaker 5>many Americans who live there don't do, of course, and

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 5>so they need them to say that they don't go.

0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 5>They need the support of the immigrant to be able

0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.359
<v Speaker 5>to have the balance that they have today.

0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Like a lot of Panamanians I met, he was broadly

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.120
<v Speaker 2>in solidarity with the migrants. I didn't really encounter anti

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.639
<v Speaker 2>migrants sentiment at all in my time at Panama. In

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.639
<v Speaker 2>the capital city, which locals just called Panama but we

0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.480
<v Speaker 2>can call Panama City, migrants are not really physically present,

0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.520
<v Speaker 2>nor are they present in conversation. I found the transition

0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.960
<v Speaker 2>for the jungle and the refugee camps back to the

0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.440
<v Speaker 2>bustling city pretty challenging a lot of ways. I find

0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:23.879
<v Speaker 2>I'm oddly comfortable amidst the chalos and trauma of a

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.960
<v Speaker 2>refugee camp. It's a familiar environment for me, and I

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.760
<v Speaker 2>know how to conduct myself. I feel safe with the migrants,

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 2>and I tend to find them very open and welcoming

0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.119
<v Speaker 2>to me. I can talk to anyone and they can

0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.920
<v Speaker 2>talk to me. I bring toys for children and try

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to bring resources for adults, and sometimes I bring my

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.120
<v Speaker 2>harmonica if I being really cliche in a weird way.

0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Refgue camps are a little safe space for me, and

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 2>even though I know it's bad, I can console myself

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 2>that I'm helping a little or at least giving people

0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 2>some hope and some information. That made me feel a

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>bit better. But in the city I found it hard

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 2>knowing that people were in a terrible situation and that

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 2>nobody hears seem to care. I went for a running

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the jungle near the city, trying to get some perspective

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 2>and clear my head, but I just ended up screaming

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and didn't consider it driver. I was angry at them

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.240
<v Speaker 2>for they're hitting me, but I was just angry at

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.480
<v Speaker 2>everyone all over the US and even here in Panama City,

0:19:15.520 --> 0:20:12.920
<v Speaker 2>for their indifference as so much human suffering. The lack

0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 2>of concern about migrants in Panama City made what I

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.359
<v Speaker 2>saw next at Last Blankets even more surprising. An announcement

0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 2>of the loudspeakers called several Colombian passport holders to the

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 2>migration office. At first, it seemed like they were just

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:26.639
<v Speaker 2>going to a little wooden shed with a couple of

0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 2>CENTA Front officers in it to return their documents. I

0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 2>had already noticed that some migrants, and seemingly most of

0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.160
<v Speaker 2>the African migrants, were being called to a different shed

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 2>to do biometric scans. I wondered if this was part

0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.840
<v Speaker 2>of the same process. But shortly thereafter a truck rolled

0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 2>up and several of the Colombians were loaded in. Apparently

0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.800
<v Speaker 2>neither they nor their partners knew what was going on.

0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.639
<v Speaker 2>They're taking some of the Columbian guys away to report them.

0:20:51.640 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 2>You can hear a little kid crying for his dad, okay, listen,

0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:15.240
<v Speaker 2>and taking his brother and his brother's wife, taking some

0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:20.640
<v Speaker 2>other lady's husband, some of little kid's dad and making

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 2>them sit on the floor. I don't know why, Yeah,

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:34.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what they're going to do now. She's

0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.040
<v Speaker 2>trying to give her husband the money and a SIM

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:44.239
<v Speaker 2>card so you can call her. You're gonna go get

0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.320
<v Speaker 2>some more food. Other morguts approached me to us if

0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.280
<v Speaker 2>I knew, which I didn't. The one lady who'd been

0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:50.879
<v Speaker 2>there for weeks told me that people who leave this

0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.800
<v Speaker 2>way never come back and they end up being deported,

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.240
<v Speaker 2>So we assume that's what's happening here. Yeah, this really sucks.

0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Now they're taking the deportation by. There's men crying, I said,

0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:05.960
<v Speaker 2>wives are on their women crying, their husbands are on

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:10.879
<v Speaker 2>their kids are crying, their parents are on there, and

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:12.639
<v Speaker 2>they've just done this crossing and now they're going to

0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.639
<v Speaker 2>send them back. By the time I got back to

0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.040
<v Speaker 2>the city, I was getting texts from migrants with photos

0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.600
<v Speaker 2>of them and handcuffs. More and more of them were

0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.840
<v Speaker 2>being deported, particularly the Colombians. One of them, texting me

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.480
<v Speaker 2>after being returned to Columbia on a flight, gave the

0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:29.879
<v Speaker 2>following account of detention.

0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:31.440
<v Speaker 6>They treated us.

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.879
<v Speaker 7>Very badly verbally and psychologically. We all had to do

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.639
<v Speaker 7>our business in the same cell, and they threw food

0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:39.439
<v Speaker 7>on the floor for us to eat as we were

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.639
<v Speaker 7>all in handcuffs. They told us that of Venezuelan had

0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:45.920
<v Speaker 7>burned down the migrant detention center in San Vincente and

0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:47.879
<v Speaker 7>that we would all pay for it, and that the

0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 7>Colombians didn't need to leave the country because the president

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.359
<v Speaker 7>there said it was doing well and there's plenty of work.

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:54.880
<v Speaker 7>None of that is true.

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:58.560
<v Speaker 2>The American facility in Samba cent they was burned out,

0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.480
<v Speaker 2>and the people working there it was a Venezuelan migrant

0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:03.920
<v Speaker 2>who did that. But all of that excuses any of this.

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.240
<v Speaker 2>We weren't able to access that facility as the people

0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.080
<v Speaker 2>who had detained there can't really consent meaningfully to an interview.

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 2>That's a fair enough for paction. But the migrant who

0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 2>was deported also alleged that they received no hearings or

0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.240
<v Speaker 2>a chance to appeal their deportation. Instead, they were detained

0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.640
<v Speaker 2>for eight days, spent their last US dollars, and were

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.600
<v Speaker 2>then kicked out of the country. They were not detained

0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.400
<v Speaker 2>or arrested upon reaching Columbia, which makes it a little

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.840
<v Speaker 2>more difficult for me to believe the claim that only

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:35.320
<v Speaker 2>people without standing warrants in Columbia were being deported. These

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.520
<v Speaker 2>weren't the only allegations of mistreatment. I heard Margarets came

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:40.640
<v Speaker 2>to me and whispered about the abuse of black migrants

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:42.679
<v Speaker 2>who were forced to walk to Lahas Blancos because they

0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.200
<v Speaker 2>couldn't afford the boat ride. I should note that it

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.359
<v Speaker 2>wasn't the migrants who had been robbed or abuse that

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.159
<v Speaker 2>came to me. It was other migrants. It was a

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.040
<v Speaker 2>group of guys had given a water filter too. While

0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:54.600
<v Speaker 2>they were leaving to walk from Lahas Blancas. I hadn't

0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.440
<v Speaker 2>been able to join them, but when they got there,

0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>we ran into each other again, and they came up

0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.320
<v Speaker 2>to meet to share their concerns for the black men

0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:05.399
<v Speaker 2>who had walked with them. In one instance, one migrant

0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:07.600
<v Speaker 2>told me he was robbed by what he called quote

0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:11.560
<v Speaker 2>police dressed as thieves. The deportations, which seemed to be

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:15.440
<v Speaker 2>increasingly commonplace, are being funded by US taxpayer dollars. The

0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.760
<v Speaker 2>same day that Molino took office in July, Homeland Security

0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Secretary Alejandro Majorcas, himself the child of migrants, visited Panama.

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Panama's a relatively young country and one which the US

0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:29.280
<v Speaker 2>occupied part of for much of the last century, but

0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 2>despite a real struggle for independence, the Panamanian government didn't

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:36.120
<v Speaker 2>seem concerned that the U S Secretary of Homeland Security

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:38.879
<v Speaker 2>was present at the inauguration of a president in a

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:42.280
<v Speaker 2>country that decidedly not the U S homeland. The official

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.320
<v Speaker 2>DHS readout of his trip notes that the US has

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.399
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed a flourishing strategic relationship with Panama for over one

0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:51.119
<v Speaker 2>hundred years, which is certainly one way to sum up

0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:54.200
<v Speaker 2>decades of occupation, violence, and profit from the Panama Canal

0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and one of the more brutal dictatorships in the long

0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:00.320
<v Speaker 2>list of authoritarian regimes that the US preferred to minister,

0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:03.880
<v Speaker 2>even socialist governments in the Western Hemisphere. They also announced

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:06.920
<v Speaker 2>that the US government would quote help the Panamanian government

0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:09.359
<v Speaker 2>to remove foreign nationals who do not have a legal

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 2>basis to remain in Panama. Obvious yet to take this

0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:15.719
<v Speaker 2>moment to note that under the United Nations Refugee Convention,

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:18.280
<v Speaker 2>refugees do have a legal right to travel through a

0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.440
<v Speaker 2>country on route to another. His Erica describing that right.

0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 6>The Refugee Convention is complex.

0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:26.359
<v Speaker 8>The UES afford a lot of rights to people who

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:29.719
<v Speaker 8>have fled their countries based on persecution. You know you're

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 8>supposed to be able to pass through whichever country you want,

0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:35.879
<v Speaker 8>go to whichever country you want, not be criminally prosecuted

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:38.119
<v Speaker 8>for crossing the border between ports of entry, and not

0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:40.400
<v Speaker 8>be turned back to a country where you face harm.

0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:43.600
<v Speaker 2>The US allocated six million dollars for a six month

0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:48.119
<v Speaker 2>pilot program of repatriations. If the program meets the USA's goals,

0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 2>they might consider expanding it to other countries along the

0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>migrant route. According to reporting in Rutters, as of early October,

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.120
<v Speaker 2>they've deported five hundred and thirty people to Colombia. That's

0:25:58.200 --> 0:26:00.239
<v Speaker 2>half the people I saw arriving in a single day

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:04.960
<v Speaker 2>in Bajojigito. Because Panama's government and Venezuela's government have ceased

0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:08.639
<v Speaker 2>relations after the election, Panama is now struggling to deport

0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Venezuelan's back to Venezuela, and it's actively searching for a

0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:14.600
<v Speaker 2>third country into which to deport them. But even if

0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:17.159
<v Speaker 2>the program resulted in one plane loaded day, which it

0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 2>hasn't yet, that would be roughly ten percent of the

0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:22.400
<v Speaker 2>total daily in traffic, and far fewer planes are traveling.

0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:26.200
<v Speaker 2>What it will do, like so many other DHS policies,

0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:29.680
<v Speaker 2>is play into the hands of smugglers. Already new ocean

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:32.400
<v Speaker 2>routes are being used, which see migrants, many of whom

0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:35.840
<v Speaker 2>cannot swim, taking long journeys around Panama on ill equiped boats.

0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:39.680
<v Speaker 2>This doesn't help anyone apart from the DHS contractors and

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 2>staff equipping and training Panamanian personnel, and the human traffickers

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:47.080
<v Speaker 2>making more and more money from migration. I also a shopkeeper.

0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 2>His opinion on this.

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 5>Look, I'll tell you I think that instead of giving

0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:58.440
<v Speaker 5>them a reward for deportation, they should give them support,

0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:01.959
<v Speaker 5>a lot of support, because it is a huge sacrifice

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:04.399
<v Speaker 5>to leave your country where you were born, your children,

0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:07.040
<v Speaker 5>your family, leave it to be able to have a future,

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:09.720
<v Speaker 5>and you go with your mentality that your future is

0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:12.560
<v Speaker 5>the United States that will give you an opportunity to

0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 5>get ahead and give well being to your children. Now,

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.000
<v Speaker 5>ten percent of those who go are going to destroy

0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 5>the good name of the migrants, But what people really

0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:25.320
<v Speaker 5>want to do is help their family, and this balance

0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:28.800
<v Speaker 5>unbalances everything that is being done by good people, because

0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:30.600
<v Speaker 5>there are many good people who want to get ahead,

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:34.840
<v Speaker 5>and I think that the United States should support give

0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:37.359
<v Speaker 5>support to people who really want to fight and move forward.

0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:40.119
<v Speaker 5>As I just told you, they give a lot of

0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:42.040
<v Speaker 5>benefit they contribute to the country.

0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:17.159
<v Speaker 2>After leaving Las Blancas, I felt pretty down about the

0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:18.879
<v Speaker 2>fact that people were just hitting a wall that they

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:22.120
<v Speaker 2>couldn't overcome. Since then, I've stayed in touch with many

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:24.480
<v Speaker 2>of them. For some a friend or family member was

0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 2>able to send the money and they made it to

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:28.880
<v Speaker 2>costantly on the bus. From there, they crossed quickly into

0:28:28.960 --> 0:28:32.560
<v Speaker 2>Nicaragua and Guatemala before arriving in the Mexican border city

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:35.680
<v Speaker 2>of Tapachula in the state of Chiapas and ironically not

0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.640
<v Speaker 2>so very far from whether Zapatista's made their revolution thirty

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 2>years ago. Once they crossed the southern border of Mexico,

0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:44.800
<v Speaker 2>migrants can begin their application for asylum using the CBP

0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 2>one app that we've talked about so much on the

0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 2>show before. They can use it in Tabasco and Chiapas,

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:52.800
<v Speaker 2>the southern border states, and then once again when they're

0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 2>north of Mexico City. To recap very briefly, the app

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:58.640
<v Speaker 2>is terrible and almost every way, including its inability to

0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 2>recognize blackfaces. It's limited functionality on Android phones, which is

0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:05.760
<v Speaker 2>a vast majority of devices used by migrants. It's constant

0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 2>crashing an eight to nine month wait time for stylum appointments. His'

0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:11.520
<v Speaker 2>erico explaining some of those problems.

0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:15.600
<v Speaker 3>You have to have a relatively new smartphone, you have

0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:19.120
<v Speaker 3>to have an address, all the people you're traveling with

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:21.480
<v Speaker 3>have to be with you right, and you have to

0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:26.400
<v Speaker 3>first get through the initial kind of registration phase.

0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:28.560
<v Speaker 6>Which doesn't always work. The program is very glitchy.

0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:32.960
<v Speaker 3>You have to take a live photo, and you have

0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:35.800
<v Speaker 3>to wait essentially, so you know, it's kind of random too.

0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 6>Some people will get.

0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:38.840
<v Speaker 3>An appointment within three months, but I would say most

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 3>people are waiting nine to twelve At this point. You

0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:44.480
<v Speaker 3>don't have any legal status in Mexico while you're waiting,

0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 3>unless you can apply for some other status in Mexico independently.

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>That it is yet very poorly designed. It's also a

0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:55.680
<v Speaker 2>de facto a metering system on asignum' erico explaining.

0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:59.080
<v Speaker 3>That we've been litigating against the use of CBP one

0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:01.520
<v Speaker 3>for a few years now now. My organization out at

0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 3>the level and Patient Bridge Alliance, and the reason why

0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:09.440
<v Speaker 3>we are fighting against the required use of CBP one

0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:14.080
<v Speaker 3>is first because it is an illegal metering system. So

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.840
<v Speaker 3>we've already litigated the fact that there is no number

0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:21.200
<v Speaker 3>limit on the amount of individuals who can seek asylum

0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:24.200
<v Speaker 3>at the US Mexico border, and Customs and Border Protection

0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:26.680
<v Speaker 3>legally does not have the right to turn people.

0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 6>Away, and CBP one essentially allows them to do that.

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, there were physical metering lists at ports of

0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 3>entry before CBP one was implemented as essentially the only

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.400
<v Speaker 3>way to access the US asylum system at ports of entry,

0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:43.680
<v Speaker 3>and now it's.

0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:46.240
<v Speaker 6>A digital metering list and it's very limited.

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Recently, the Department of Homeland Security lost a court case

0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:52.480
<v Speaker 2>which forced them to release records in there with some

0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:55.480
<v Speaker 2>of the app plugs and data regarding CBP one. I'm

0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:58.000
<v Speaker 2>still in the phase of coming through that asking my friends,

0:30:58.040 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>you know more about technologies than I do, explain exactly

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.440
<v Speaker 2>what the limitations with the app are, But it doesn't

0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:06.720
<v Speaker 2>really matter. DHS is well aware of the app's flaws,

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:08.640
<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't really seem to see the most flaws

0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:10.719
<v Speaker 2>at all. The goal of the app is to make

0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 2>it harder for people, even those with very legitimate asylum claims,

0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:17.720
<v Speaker 2>to obtain asylum in the USA. As we heard yesterday,

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:21.480
<v Speaker 2>the CHNV program is no better. A recently Reddit thread

0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:23.920
<v Speaker 2>of applicants who've been waiting nearly two years. What it

0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:26.760
<v Speaker 2>didn't mention yesterday is a parallel program for another group

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 2>of migrants, which I'll let Erica explain.

0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:31.640
<v Speaker 3>I want to mention the fact that there is a

0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 3>cap I think it's thirty thousand a month or something

0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:38.400
<v Speaker 3>like that for those four countries, But it's almost identical

0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:43.200
<v Speaker 3>to the Ukrainian United for a Ukraine program, which doesn't

0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:46.200
<v Speaker 3>have a cap right, so there's no limit to how

0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:48.120
<v Speaker 3>many Ukrainians can get the same benefit.

0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:52.160
<v Speaker 6>And they are renewing the humanitarian prole.

0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:54.680
<v Speaker 3>For Ukrainians, which I believe was just announced almost within

0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:57.320
<v Speaker 3>weeks of them announcing that they're not renewing for the

0:31:57.400 --> 0:31:58.400
<v Speaker 3>other four countries.

0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:04.480
<v Speaker 6>So it's really a very stark demonstration of how the

0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:07.480
<v Speaker 6>US immigration system, even when it's a relatively mean or

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:11.960
<v Speaker 6>benefit is based on race, is based on which country

0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:12.400
<v Speaker 6>you're from.

0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:15.560
<v Speaker 2>What this means is it in practice? The migrants I

0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:18.560
<v Speaker 2>spoke to face a long and dangerous way in Mexico

0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.520
<v Speaker 2>while others skip ahead. I've got nothing against the Ukrainians,

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think many of them do either. I

0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:28.280
<v Speaker 2>tried to go to Ukraine and report, but the avisas

0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 2>ended up taking so long that I missed the flights

0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:33.440
<v Speaker 2>that I'd booked. I have, however, a serious problem with

0:32:33.480 --> 0:32:36.520
<v Speaker 2>a Biden administration which left people who fought alongside its

0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:39.640
<v Speaker 2>own US troops to die in Afghanistan and turned away

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 2>migrants small over the world, but then opened its arms

0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:44.960
<v Speaker 2>to a country that just happened to have the majority

0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>of its citizens be the same race as the president.

0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:50.960
<v Speaker 2>It's cruel and it's wrong, and it's barely ever even

0:32:51.040 --> 0:32:54.479
<v Speaker 2>mentioned in national media coverage. But that's not fortunate enough

0:32:54.520 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 2>to be Ukrainian. Here's what waiting in Mexico looks like.

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:02.840
<v Speaker 3>The incidence of crime director at migrants is horrifyingly high.

0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 3>We had done an electronic survey a few years ago,

0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:10.520
<v Speaker 3>and this was during title forty two, when people were

0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:13.840
<v Speaker 3>just being expelled to Mexico, and if I remember correctly,

0:33:14.640 --> 0:33:17.000
<v Speaker 3>it was like around twenty five to thirty percent of

0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:20.240
<v Speaker 3>people had been either raped.

0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:23.920
<v Speaker 6>Such traffic assaulted, kidnapped. I mean, the list goes on

0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:24.240
<v Speaker 6>and on.

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.640
<v Speaker 3>We've seen a lot of people lose their lives just

0:33:27.760 --> 0:33:31.360
<v Speaker 3>due to violence, and the kidnapping rates are through the roof.

0:33:32.080 --> 0:33:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Almost everyone you've heard from in this series is now

0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:38.160
<v Speaker 2>stuck in Mexico. Some of them have been kidnapped, paid,

0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 2>ransomed and released. Some of them have been sexually assaulted.

0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Many of them have been robbed. Some of them have,

0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>after surviving one of the most deadly land migration routes

0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:50.000
<v Speaker 2>on Earth, been killed while waiting in Mexico for an

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 2>app to stop crashing on their phones. Over a week

0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:55.320
<v Speaker 2>since I got home, I've seen them go gradually more

0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:58.520
<v Speaker 2>desperate and afraid just to get to Mexico. Many of

0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:01.920
<v Speaker 2>them have spent several thousand dollars. Once they're in Capatula,

0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 2>they faced with the astronomical costs for the trip north

0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 2>off just several thousand dollars more, and many of them,

0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:11.760
<v Speaker 2>their fund exhausted, have slept on the streets. Those didn't

0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 2>speak Spanish struggle to find refuge. Those who did wanted

0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:17.839
<v Speaker 2>to move quickly north, but struggle to find the money here.

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:20.520
<v Speaker 2>The Iranian migrants you heard earlier in the series explaining

0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 2>what they'd already heard about CBP one.

0:34:22.920 --> 0:34:26.799
<v Speaker 4>It's so tough because the some polices in their way,

0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:32.840
<v Speaker 4>they are two to our money that became from Iran.

0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:37.000
<v Speaker 4>It was so difficult for us and the resumed a

0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:41.239
<v Speaker 4>way so Mexico. Mexico is so difficult for us and

0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:47.040
<v Speaker 4>something is CBP one is not working for our for us,

0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:52.160
<v Speaker 4>for Iranian people, Yeah, I hope the people who are

0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 4>in Mexico City for about three months.

0:34:56.400 --> 0:34:59.040
<v Speaker 6>For three months, Yeah, CPP wanted.

0:34:59.200 --> 0:34:59.359
<v Speaker 9>Yeah.

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 4>Because of that, Iranian people go to the wall and yeah, yeah,

0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:07.400
<v Speaker 4>it's not our choice.

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:09.120
<v Speaker 2>We have to do this.

0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:12.279
<v Speaker 4>We don't want them, but it's we have to do this.

0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:15.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's good to explain that. According to a study

0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:17.640
<v Speaker 2>conducted at the University of Texas, wait times are as

0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:20.800
<v Speaker 2>high as eight or nine months on average. Now mexicoing

0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:22.320
<v Speaker 2>out it's on the thirty first of August that it

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:24.759
<v Speaker 2>will provide security and food for migrants who have an

0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:27.280
<v Speaker 2>appointment to travel north from the south of the country

0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:29.200
<v Speaker 2>to the place where they have a CBP wall appointment.

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Margarets absolutely have been robbed or kidnapped on their way

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to their appointment and missed it as a result, but

0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:36.839
<v Speaker 2>they're just as honorable in the eight or nine months

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:39.719
<v Speaker 2>that they have to wait for one. Margarets and Tapajula

0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:42.120
<v Speaker 2>are at a very high risk for kidnapping and are

0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:46.000
<v Speaker 2>often held until their families pay ransoms, but without money

0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:49.040
<v Speaker 2>or an appointment, they have little means of leaving the city.

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Some choose to travel a little further north and then

0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 2>hop on a freight train known as Labstia the Beast,

0:35:54.760 --> 0:35:57.840
<v Speaker 2>an extraordinarily risky endeavor that several of the people I

0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 2>spoke to for this series have undertaken. The only place

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:03.000
<v Speaker 2>to ride on these trains is on top of carriages,

0:36:03.560 --> 0:36:07.120
<v Speaker 2>exposing migrants to freezing temperatures in the desert night. Even

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:10.880
<v Speaker 2>on the train, they're not safe from kidnapping. Like many migrants,

0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the Iranian group were well informed about domestic politics in

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.440
<v Speaker 2>the US, and they said that when they made their

0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:18.400
<v Speaker 2>journey north, they wanted to be sure to avoid the

0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:20.759
<v Speaker 2>states where local law enforcement was likely to turn them

0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:24.719
<v Speaker 2>over for deportation. In reality, that could be any of

0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:26.960
<v Speaker 2>the states. But they're probably right that their life would

0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:28.360
<v Speaker 2>be a little easier on the West Coast.

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:33.320
<v Speaker 4>I heard it's so difficult and about three months, four months,

0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:36.880
<v Speaker 4>more than seven months, they will arrest us in the US.

0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:38.879
<v Speaker 4>I heard in Mississippi.

0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:41.840
<v Speaker 2>It takes us in the middle of Africa.

0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:44.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that the California is a

0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:49.040
<v Speaker 4>little little, little yeah, certainly our.

0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:52.959
<v Speaker 9>Money is very excuse me, shits money in the world,

0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:56.759
<v Speaker 9>and we have to pay a lot of money for

0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:57.879
<v Speaker 9>this way.

0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:06.320
<v Speaker 4>Our one yeah dollar, one dollar is sixty thousand.

0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Some of course, which used to cross the border between

0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:13.319
<v Speaker 2>ports of entry as they become desperate to see their

0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:17.880
<v Speaker 2>families or afraid of remaining in Mexico. Since President Biden's

0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:21.280
<v Speaker 2>executive audio earlier this summer, doing this can result expedited

0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:25.880
<v Speaker 2>removal proceedings, and effectively, Biden's new ruling denies asylum by

0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.759
<v Speaker 2>default to anyone crossing the border when daily crossings have

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:32.080
<v Speaker 2>passed twenty five hundred. In fact, this is the continuation

0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:34.840
<v Speaker 2>of extremely punitive and cruel politics that have been in

0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:37.640
<v Speaker 2>place since he was finally forced to stop using Title

0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:39.959
<v Speaker 2>forty two, which, if you're not aware, is a public

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:42.840
<v Speaker 2>health law used by the Trump administration and embraced by

0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:45.840
<v Speaker 2>the Biden administration as an asylum law. It has already

0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:48.560
<v Speaker 2>resulted in the deportations of people back to places where

0:37:48.560 --> 0:37:51.840
<v Speaker 2>they have extremely credible fears of harm and created a

0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:54.360
<v Speaker 2>system whereby migrants have no idea how they will be

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 2>treated on any given day. Again, it's play into the

0:37:57.320 --> 0:37:59.279
<v Speaker 2>hands of anyone seeking to smoke or migrants into the

0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:02.880
<v Speaker 2>country undertake well also harming innocent people coming to this

0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:05.840
<v Speaker 2>country to US for protection. He's Erica's short history of

0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 2>Biden's asylent policy since last year.

0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:12.359
<v Speaker 3>So when the Biden administration lifted Title forty two, they

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:16.279
<v Speaker 3>essentially imposed what I call a transitvent.

0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:18.840
<v Speaker 6>So there's a couple of components to it.

0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 3>One is, if you do not enter the United States

0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:25.560
<v Speaker 3>out of port of entry with a CBP one appointment,

0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:30.279
<v Speaker 3>you are presumed ineligible for asylum unless you fall under

0:38:30.320 --> 0:38:34.360
<v Speaker 3>a few narrow exceptions which are not consistently applied. So

0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:37.880
<v Speaker 3>the exceptions are things like you were having a medical emergency,

0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:40.840
<v Speaker 3>you were running for your life, you know you couldn't

0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:44.120
<v Speaker 3>access the app for some reason. But in practice those

0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:49.160
<v Speaker 3>exceptions are almost never applied at ports. There's been a

0:38:49.239 --> 0:38:53.840
<v Speaker 3>few kind of alternative programs run by shelters or local

0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:58.719
<v Speaker 3>governments where people with extreme medical vulnerabilities, for example, can

0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:01.279
<v Speaker 3>be let in without an appointment, but we don't know

0:39:02.239 --> 0:39:05.399
<v Speaker 3>whether the ban applies to them once they enter without

0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:09.440
<v Speaker 3>that appointment, right, So it's like I said, inconsistently applied exceptions.

0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:12.560
<v Speaker 3>If you enter between a port of entry, you're presumed

0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:15.960
<v Speaker 3>and eligible for asylum. Again, unless you meet some narrow exceptions,

0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:19.080
<v Speaker 3>and what that means is you can still apply for

0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:21.640
<v Speaker 3>other types of protection in the United States. So there's

0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:26.880
<v Speaker 3>two principal types of protection. One it's called withholding a removal,

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:30.440
<v Speaker 3>which is like asylum but with a higher standard. And

0:39:30.520 --> 0:39:34.200
<v Speaker 3>then the other is Convention against Torture, which you just

0:39:34.320 --> 0:39:36.239
<v Speaker 3>have to prove it's more likely than not that your

0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:39.680
<v Speaker 3>own government will torture you, which is more extreme than persecution.

0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:42.759
<v Speaker 3>But is it necessarily based on a protected ground. So

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:45.640
<v Speaker 3>the torture could be for any reason, but it's a

0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 3>high hurdle. But the most important thing is those two

0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.880
<v Speaker 3>types of protection are not path to citizenship and they

0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:55.360
<v Speaker 3>do not allow you to petition for your family. So,

0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:58.640
<v Speaker 3>for example, if you get asylum in the US and

0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:00.680
<v Speaker 3>then you want to ask for your life and children

0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:03.120
<v Speaker 3>to join you, there is an avenue for that, and

0:40:03.280 --> 0:40:06.880
<v Speaker 3>all of you can eventually become citizens. Withholding a removal

0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:10.160
<v Speaker 3>and Convention against Torture, you basically get a work from it.

0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:13.800
<v Speaker 3>If conditions in your country change, they can deport you

0:40:14.560 --> 0:40:16.360
<v Speaker 3>and you can never leave the United States and you

0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:18.600
<v Speaker 3>can never reunify with your family, and you could never

0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:19.759
<v Speaker 3>become a citizen.

0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:23.640
<v Speaker 2>This won't deter people. I speak to people every day

0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:26.960
<v Speaker 2>who cross to Daddy in We're kidnapped, robbed, and sometimes

0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:29.680
<v Speaker 2>raped on their way here. They're going through all of

0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:32.200
<v Speaker 2>that because we refuse to give people a dignified or

0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:34.680
<v Speaker 2>safe way to come here. They know it's a risk,

0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>and they continue to come because they think it's the

0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:41.000
<v Speaker 2>only option. His powers from coming and explaining that it's.

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:42.800
<v Speaker 4>Deadly, how will lie to you.

0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:44.799
<v Speaker 9>It's fifty fifty alive on date.

0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Honestly, weecause, but we had to take the riks because

0:40:49.000 --> 0:40:49.440
<v Speaker 1>I think.

0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:53.560
<v Speaker 2>That was only awesome that we had. If you can't

0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:56.720
<v Speaker 2>imagine taking those risks, it's likely because you can't imagine

0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:59.640
<v Speaker 2>the things these people are leaving behind either. As a

0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:02.240
<v Speaker 2>conflict reporter, I've been able to see a small amount

0:41:02.280 --> 0:41:07.759
<v Speaker 2>of what they're fleeing, war, death, poverty, state violence. I

0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:09.480
<v Speaker 2>don't know if i'd be brave or strong enough to

0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:11.400
<v Speaker 2>do the same, but I have a lot of respect

0:41:11.480 --> 0:41:14.799
<v Speaker 2>for people who can. Tomorrow we're going to talk about

0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:16.800
<v Speaker 2>the people who help them along the way and what

0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:18.960
<v Speaker 2>you can do to support them. When the state works,

0:41:23.120 --> 0:41:23.680
<v Speaker 2>it could happen.

0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:26.640
<v Speaker 9>Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts,

0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:30.120
<v Speaker 9>from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com,

0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:33.480
<v Speaker 9>or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 9>or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:39.680
<v Speaker 9>sources for it could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions.

0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:40.800
<v Speaker 9>Thanks for listening.