1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 2: It's me James, and before we listen to this episode today, 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: I just did want to make you aware that I 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, and 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 2: then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing is 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 2: a translated interview that's being edited for brevity and content. 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed the episode. At some of you 8 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: recognize the audio that we opened this show with, and 9 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 2: then if you won't, it's a sample from the fourth 10 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 2: Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle that Manuchow used to open 11 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: his shows with. It's a piece of music that's very 12 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: emotive for me. Obviously, I'm a white leftist guy in 13 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: my thirties who learned Spanish and decided to live in Barcelona. 14 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: So I have a story about running into Manuchow once 15 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: where he was busking, but that's not what I want 16 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: to share today. Because I'm technology challenged, I can't seem 17 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: to get my phone to download songs, but I've managed 18 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: to download the same Manuchow playlist, and I ripped off 19 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: a rewriteable CD when I was in high school and 20 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: put it on the various headphones and garment and watch 21 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: it that I've had of the last two decades or so. 22 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: When I'm away for work, I like to run whenever 23 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: I can. Obviously, I wasn't just going to go for 24 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: a jog straight into the Darien Gap. But once we 25 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: were out of Bajajiqito, it gave me some time to 26 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: run and think and process the things that I've seen. 27 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: And while I do that, I listen to the same 28 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: does not al so MP three files. I was listening 29 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: to this song one day after I got back from 30 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: LaaS Blancas as I sweated my way up ahead in 31 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: the rainforest, hoping to see a sloth. I didn't see 32 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: a sloth, but it seemed like an appropriate soundtrack. Manuchow 33 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 2: himself is a child of refugees from Francoist Spain. He 34 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: sings in French and Spanish, while off and Galician and Portuguese, 35 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: among other languages, often several of them in the same song, 36 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: the product of growing up among other migrants of diverse backgrounds. 37 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: I like the way he plays with language because it 38 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: reminds me of the way I so often speak to 39 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: my friends Spanglish, for example, or Frannglais. It's the way 40 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: people talk in border regions and refugee camps, languages that 41 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: don't have the support of a state or the academy, 42 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 2: but nonetheless convey so much meaning for so many people. 43 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 2: That song in particular reminds me of my first time 44 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: reading about Zapatismo in a tiny anarchist cafe in the 45 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: West Midlands. I remember struck as a kid from Europe 46 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: who would frequently drive to France or Belgium to race 47 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: bikes and buy cheap beer. That the USA still maintained 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: a fortified border with Mexico. People couldn't travel freely, but 49 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: money could. It was its realization and the writings in 50 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: particular Soucomante Marcos, along with my talks in Spain to 51 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: old anarchists, that encouraged me to learn Spanish, which I 52 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: pursued by spending months in Spain and Venezuela and learning 53 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: thanks to the patient to the people around me. It 54 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: was a new anarchism which came from the periphery, not 55 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 2: only a liberal corps, which gave me my first serious politics. 56 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: I traveled to Venezuela to understand the revolution there. I 57 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: did a PhD to try and understand the revolution in Spain. 58 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: It's all very well understanding things, but I think it's 59 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: much more important to do things, and I tried to 60 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: practice mutual aid as much as I can. Since I 61 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: got back from the daddy En, I've loaded up a 62 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 2: heavy backpack and carried water into the desert and spent 63 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: hours trying to connect the friends I made in the 64 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: jungle with services along the way. In the face of 65 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: so much cruelty, it's good to be doing something to 66 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: help and carrying the waters away. I can make a 67 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: material difference in a terrible situation. But in all my 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: time reporting, I've really never felt as disempowered and helpless 69 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: as I did in Last Blancas. Here at the first 70 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: official migrant reception center after Daddi Enne. The Panamanian government 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: registers migrants NGOs, offer a few services, and the US 72 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: funded process of deportation for migrants from Colombia, Cuba, Venezuela 73 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: and India begins. Some of those sent to India might 74 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: well be Nepalese who often travel on fake Indian passports. 75 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: The Siddle cluster of cheap tents, shipping container offices, un shelters, 76 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 2: and barbed wire fences is where the rubber meets a 77 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 2: road for the USA's border and migration policy, and it's 78 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: heartbreaking to witness as migrants were called up to the 79 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 2: security office to begin the deportation process. I tried to 80 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: narrate the scene into my voice recorder, but I struggled, 81 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: in part because their family members asked me questions, hoping 82 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: I can help. Yeah, plankings on a say, But in 83 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 2: a larger part this was also difficult because I couldn't help, 84 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,559 Speaker 2: and I deeply wanted to. The best I could offer 85 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 2: was an arm around someone's shoulder and the promise to 86 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: email anyone who I could think of and ask what 87 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: was going on. This guy's just sobbing. Ah. Yeah, that's 88 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: really tough. Some people's parents, some people's partners, And I'll 89 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: explain exactly what was happening in a moment, but first 90 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: I want to explain how I got here. On the 91 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: day we left Maragante, we set off at the same 92 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: time some migrants who are making their own journey to 93 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: last Blankets is carrying only myself and my fixed daddy 94 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: and Aguero. So we're moving a lot faster than the 95 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: boats full of migrants on the way north. We passed them, 96 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: they smiled waves. We rode by many of them had 97 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 2: met me the day before. All of them were ecstatic 98 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: to have survived to daddy En and be heading north. 99 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 2: You know, it's a pretty busy stretch of river that's 100 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: probably three or four piaguas full of migrants. Hello, there, 101 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: kids shanging and men taught them some English words yesterday 102 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: and they're shouting them back to me today, which is nice. 103 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: I got it family from Panama. They might be Indio 104 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: people or something. They little Bill shocked to the whole scene. 105 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 2: Here we are patting another bit agua. Now they're all 106 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: waving in me. It's got to be uncomfortable. Pack that 107 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: dancy into a bi agua one, two, three, four or five, six, seven, 108 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: eighty nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirty forty sixteen people. Yeah, 109 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: once they boath arrived, they did embark in Las Blancas. 110 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: The next day. I was there to meet them. They're 111 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: just walking into LaaS Blancas. It's hectic here. So it's 112 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: a new shop here, and outside the shop they've made 113 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: like a line of outlets to charge people. It's a 114 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: dollar an hour to charge your telephone. As we go in, 115 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: there are a row of like kind of sheds which 116 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: represent shops and then further in every ngo has its 117 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: own little kind of shed. They're all covered in tarps. 118 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: They're like canvas and tarp tents. Actually here so see 119 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: UNISEF see oh I am. Yeah, they have that sort 120 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: of little tent office here. I guess see here as 121 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,559 Speaker 2: for example has route information, psychological supports. They space for women, 122 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: WUNISEF has. There's some workshops for children. And then in 123 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: the hours, I guess, nice little chairs in there, yeah, 124 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: seas then you can't take photographs in there, which is good. Yeah, 125 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: And then it's just a crowd of people coming out. 126 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: And there's also Mormon, little little Mormon situation. 127 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 3: Yea. 128 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: I guess thee O I am are supported by Church 129 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ on that today saints. Then the Red 130 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: Cross has got a shipping container. I've been hoping last 131 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: Black Guests would be a better scene than Bajugito, with 132 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 2: more organized sleeping arrangements and hopefully basic necessities like clean water, 133 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: food and Wi Fi provided by their numerous NGOs who 134 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: work there. But if anything, it was worse in Bahjigito. 135 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: In Bajuquito, migrants were exhausted but also ecstatic to be 136 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: at the jungle. Then you they'll be moving forward the 137 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: next day, and for a few bucks they can get 138 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: anythink they needed in the village. The locals told me 139 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: that if kids didn't have the money to eat, they 140 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: fed them for free. I didn't see this, but nobody 141 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: seem like they're having a very hard time in any 142 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: of the days have visited the village, at least not 143 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: for financial reasons. Magots can get as far as Baho 144 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: Jiguito on a few hundred dollars in their tenasty. They 145 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: pay Columbian guides a few hundred bucks to bring them 146 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: across the ocean from Necopie and to walk them from 147 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: the border, and they parried Embarra Perraguero's twenty five bucks 148 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: for a ride up the river. But once they get 149 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: to last Blankerts. For a good number of migrants, their 150 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: journey grinds to a halt. Many of them told me 151 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: they've been stuck in the camp for weeks or even 152 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 2: months because they couldn't get that sixty dollars that they 153 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: needed to pay for their travel north. There's no Western 154 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 2: Union in the camp, and the only way to transfer 155 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: money is very local interomediay who charges between twenty and 156 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: twenty five percent of the sum being transferred as a fee. 157 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: In the morning, migrants arrive on their peraguas, just as 158 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 2: we did. I drop down the boat ramp when I 159 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 2: them to help with their bags, and I'll go about their 160 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 2: journey from there. They formed two lines, one for men 161 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 2: and one for women and children. They have their bag 162 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 2: search and their passport checked. They're given a welcome kit 163 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: for the Red Cross with some basic necessities toilet paper, 164 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 2: a toothbrush, some soap, stuff like that, or some of 165 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: them get a kid. When the kids ran out, it 166 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: was long before the line of people did. By the 167 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 2: time the men were finished, they were given little more 168 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: than a shrug and good wishes better Red Cross volunteers 169 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 2: and allowed to head off into the camp. Within the camp, 170 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: there are a few rows of small casitas that are 171 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: allocated to u accompany children and families. They're little more 172 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: than four walls in a roof, but they offer a 173 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 2: bit of privacy for most migrants, though there isn't space 174 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 2: and they have to search for a spot of empty 175 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: ground in the crowded camp where they can pitch the 176 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: same tents they bought a neckockley the Wi FI which 177 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 2: a Red Cross usually provides, wasn't working when I arrived, 178 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 2: so I had to let people hot spot off my 179 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: phone all day. At least the promised food really was free, 180 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: but the migrant told me it was far from good. Still, 181 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: this is supposed to be a temporary camp. People register here, 182 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: get any medical attention they need, and then move forward 183 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: to Costa Rica. That's the theory anyway. In practice, if 184 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: you can't get the sixty bucks, you need to move forward, 185 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: or someone stole it for me in the jungle, or 186 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: you are forced to walk to the camp because you 187 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 2: didn't have twenty five bucks for the boat and then 188 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 2: someone rubbed you. Then you're stuck. 189 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: We have been here a month. You have people who've 190 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: been here a month and a half. I've been twenty 191 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: seven days here. Well, I thank god because we have 192 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: three meals a day. We have water, but it still 193 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: hurts the girls. The food and water always make me 194 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: sick with diarrhea. It bothers me. I vomit and the 195 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: heat is so desperate. But we have to hold on 196 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: because even though we don't have the resources, like we 197 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: don't have enough to pay for a ticket, we have 198 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: to hold on here a little longer. We don't have 199 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: any family members can give us support. 200 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 2: Either what's keeping the migrants here is money, or rather 201 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: a lack of bit. They need sixty bucks to leave. 202 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: Buses used to take five free passengers per bus, but 203 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: under Panama's new regime, it seems like they don't. Instead, 204 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 2: migrants just gradually a mass in growing number of tents 205 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 2: that populate the grassy areas of Las Blankets. They might 206 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 2: try and do some informal work. I saw one guy 207 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 2: who was cutting hair for a dollar a time, but 208 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: I couldn't really get a satisfactory response to what they're 209 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 2: expected to do. If they don't have the money and 210 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: can't get someone to send us seventy five dollars, they'd 211 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: need to cover their travel costs and the twenty five 212 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: percent transfer. 213 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: Feel if you're short ten dollars, they don't put you 214 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: on the bus or anything. So things are terrible here. 215 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: There should at least be support for migrants who at 216 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: least come with few resources. They don't have money or anything. 217 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: They can search your bags so they can see that 218 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: you're not lying that you don't have money. Because nobody 219 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: wants to be stuck here, you have to move forward 220 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: because nobody wants to be stuck here in Panama. The 221 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: idea is to move forward to get further ahead. We 222 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: brought our children to look for a future, not to 223 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: be locked up here in Panama, as if we've been 224 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: in prisoned. 225 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: The group even tried to leave on foot, hoping to 226 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: begin walking north, and so it's for better future and 227 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: a way to make money on their way. But they 228 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 2: were caught, they say, and returned to the camera. 229 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: And they beat me hard. I gave myself up because 230 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: they had caught her, a grandmother with my other daughter. 231 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: I returned myself voluntarily and they beat me up anyway, 232 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: and from there we've lost the desire to walk back there. 233 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: What can we do rights? They don't care about them. 234 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: We are human beings, but we don't have rights here 235 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: in Panama. 236 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: They do have the money. Margarets could take a bus 237 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: to the Costa Rican border when the busts first arrived. 238 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: I tried to describe the scene as migrants rushed to 239 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 2: buy food, not only for this journey, but also so 240 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: for their journey through Costa Rica, where food and other 241 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: basics are much more expensive. I'm here in Lahablancas when 242 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 2: the first buses have arrived. It's about noon. The first 243 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: bus is going to be followed people who had been 244 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: waiting in line for hours already, so they're kind of 245 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 2: lining up by the bus. 246 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: And then. 247 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: The next bus is people seem to be kind of 248 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: rushing to get to them. They're rushing to my food. 249 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: I can just see this guy has like an entire 250 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: carrier bag full of pink Way for biscuits and coke bottles, 251 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: that that's going to be his food for the next 252 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: eleven hours. I guess other guys will see with bags 253 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: of bread rolls and stuff, and they're the first people 254 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 2: are getting on the bus. Now, these buses aren't entirely safe. 255 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, forty two people died in a 256 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: bus crash. This year, seventeen were intured in a crash 257 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 2: in August. Now, migration offices ride in each bus with 258 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: the migrants to check on safety protocols and make sure 259 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: they don't get off anywhere else in the country just 260 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: like everywhere else on their journey. People make money off 261 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: the migrants in last blankets. A bus costs sixty dollars 262 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: ahead and has fifty five passages three thousand, three hundred 263 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: dollars a bus. More than a dozen buses leave every day. 264 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: They even half of a thousand or so people who 265 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: arrived us a transfer service to get their bus fare. 266 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: That's seven five hundred dollars in transfer fees alone. Of course, 267 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: not everyone in the community is making thousands of dollars 268 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: off the migrants. I interviewed local shopkeeper who still sits 269 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: just outside the camp gates, and I asked him to 270 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: explain his stock, which included the oddly popular I backed 271 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 2: the blue, thin blue Lion T shirt. So I'd seen 272 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: several people across the daddy and gap. 273 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 4: In Okayamo only fucking money. 274 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: I asked him what was the most common shopping list 275 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: for migrants see Cassie. 276 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 5: Yes, almost all of them coming by sets for ten, fifteen, 277 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 5: twenty dollars. It depends there are many who don't have them. 278 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 5: I have children's sets for five dollars. I have sets 279 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 5: for five dollars that are pants and sweaters, which is 280 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 5: what they're looking for the most. Those that are socks 281 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 5: without underwear, backpacks for fifteen dollars because the backpack is 282 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 5: so worn out and they need it so much that 283 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 5: it carries their belongings. Look it's not really everyone who 284 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 5: can buy. There are certain people who buy, of course, 285 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 5: if everyone bought, but there are very few who can 286 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 5: buy something to leave here. Almost seventy percent leave dirty 287 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 5: because they don't have anywhere to get money, and the 288 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 5: little they can get often comes from selling their phones, 289 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 5: their watch, a cap, or their sneakers to be able 290 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 5: to get money to pay for their fare to keep going. 291 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: I asked him how the migration had impacted the community. 292 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 2: With people making a lot of money, I asked, were 293 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: they mad about the trash and the pollution of the river. 294 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: These are legitimate concerns, even if they're used in bad 295 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: faith against the migrants. 296 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 5: Now, you're so much effect though nobody is perfect, but 297 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 5: I can tell you one thing. Honestly, the migrants suffer 298 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 5: a lot to be able to carry out this journey. 299 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 5: And there are many times when I've even had to 300 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 5: give them clothes, some because they don't have any. And well, 301 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 5: when a father and family with children comes, what can 302 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 5: I say, Look, I have a family, I. 303 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 4: Have to do this. Yeah. 304 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 2: I asked him what he felt the solution was to 305 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: the suffering here, the damage done both to people and planet. 306 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 5: Okay, I say that oppressing people so that they don't 307 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 5: go through the dairy. And it's not the solution because 308 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 5: if you put it to the point, even if they 309 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 5: don't know an exact percentage, the immigrant gives the economy 310 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 5: of the United States a balance because the people born there. 311 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 5: Not to criticize them, people born there want a stable 312 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 5: job and he doesn't want to feel like he's very, 313 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 5: very low. However, the immigrant is there and he's picking fruit, 314 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 5: going to the fruit trees, going to the vegetable fields, 315 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 5: going to the garbage dumps, going picking up things that 316 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 5: many Americans who live there don't do, of course, and 317 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 5: so they need them to say that they don't go. 318 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 5: They need the support of the immigrant to be able 319 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 5: to have the balance that they have today. 320 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 2: Like a lot of Panamanians I met, he was broadly 321 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 2: in solidarity with the migrants. I didn't really encounter anti 322 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 2: migrants sentiment at all in my time at Panama. In 323 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 2: the capital city, which locals just called Panama but we 324 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: can call Panama City, migrants are not really physically present, 325 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 2: nor are they present in conversation. I found the transition 326 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 2: for the jungle and the refugee camps back to the 327 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 2: bustling city pretty challenging a lot of ways. I find 328 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 2: I'm oddly comfortable amidst the chalos and trauma of a 329 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 2: refugee camp. It's a familiar environment for me, and I 330 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: know how to conduct myself. I feel safe with the migrants, 331 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: and I tend to find them very open and welcoming 332 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 2: to me. I can talk to anyone and they can 333 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 2: talk to me. I bring toys for children and try 334 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: to bring resources for adults, and sometimes I bring my 335 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 2: harmonica if I being really cliche in a weird way. 336 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 2: Refgue camps are a little safe space for me, and 337 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 2: even though I know it's bad, I can console myself 338 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: that I'm helping a little or at least giving people 339 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 2: some hope and some information. That made me feel a 340 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: bit better. But in the city I found it hard 341 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: knowing that people were in a terrible situation and that 342 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: nobody hears seem to care. I went for a running 343 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 2: the jungle near the city, trying to get some perspective 344 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: and clear my head, but I just ended up screaming 345 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: and didn't consider it driver. I was angry at them 346 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 2: for they're hitting me, but I was just angry at 347 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 2: everyone all over the US and even here in Panama City, 348 00:19:15,520 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 2: for their indifference as so much human suffering. The lack 349 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 2: of concern about migrants in Panama City made what I 350 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 2: saw next at Last Blankets even more surprising. An announcement 351 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: of the loudspeakers called several Colombian passport holders to the 352 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: migration office. At first, it seemed like they were just 353 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 2: going to a little wooden shed with a couple of 354 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: CENTA Front officers in it to return their documents. I 355 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: had already noticed that some migrants, and seemingly most of 356 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: the African migrants, were being called to a different shed 357 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 2: to do biometric scans. I wondered if this was part 358 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: of the same process. But shortly thereafter a truck rolled 359 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 2: up and several of the Colombians were loaded in. Apparently 360 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: neither they nor their partners knew what was going on. 361 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: They're taking some of the Columbian guys away to report them. 362 00:20:51,640 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 2: You can hear a little kid crying for his dad, okay, listen, 363 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: and taking his brother and his brother's wife, taking some 364 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 2: other lady's husband, some of little kid's dad and making 365 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: them sit on the floor. I don't know why, Yeah, 366 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: I don't know what they're going to do now. She's 367 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: trying to give her husband the money and a SIM 368 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:44,239 Speaker 2: card so you can call her. You're gonna go get 369 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: some more food. Other morguts approached me to us if 370 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 2: I knew, which I didn't. The one lady who'd been 371 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 2: there for weeks told me that people who leave this 372 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: way never come back and they end up being deported, 373 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 2: So we assume that's what's happening here. Yeah, this really sucks. 374 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 2: Now they're taking the deportation by. There's men crying, I said, 375 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: wives are on their women crying, their husbands are on 376 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 2: their kids are crying, their parents are on there, and 377 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 2: they've just done this crossing and now they're going to 378 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: send them back. By the time I got back to 379 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: the city, I was getting texts from migrants with photos 380 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 2: of them and handcuffs. More and more of them were 381 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: being deported, particularly the Colombians. One of them, texting me 382 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: after being returned to Columbia on a flight, gave the 383 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 2: following account of detention. 384 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 6: They treated us. 385 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 7: Very badly verbally and psychologically. We all had to do 386 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 7: our business in the same cell, and they threw food 387 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 7: on the floor for us to eat as we were 388 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 7: all in handcuffs. They told us that of Venezuelan had 389 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 7: burned down the migrant detention center in San Vincente and 390 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 7: that we would all pay for it, and that the 391 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 7: Colombians didn't need to leave the country because the president 392 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 7: there said it was doing well and there's plenty of work. 393 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 7: None of that is true. 394 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 2: The American facility in Samba cent they was burned out, 395 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: and the people working there it was a Venezuelan migrant 396 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: who did that. But all of that excuses any of this. 397 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: We weren't able to access that facility as the people 398 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 2: who had detained there can't really consent meaningfully to an interview. 399 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: That's a fair enough for paction. But the migrant who 400 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 2: was deported also alleged that they received no hearings or 401 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: a chance to appeal their deportation. Instead, they were detained 402 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: for eight days, spent their last US dollars, and were 403 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: then kicked out of the country. They were not detained 404 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 2: or arrested upon reaching Columbia, which makes it a little 405 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: more difficult for me to believe the claim that only 406 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: people without standing warrants in Columbia were being deported. These 407 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: weren't the only allegations of mistreatment. I heard Margarets came 408 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 2: to me and whispered about the abuse of black migrants 409 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 2: who were forced to walk to Lahas Blancos because they 410 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 2: couldn't afford the boat ride. I should note that it 411 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 2: wasn't the migrants who had been robbed or abuse that 412 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 2: came to me. It was other migrants. It was a 413 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: group of guys had given a water filter too. While 414 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: they were leaving to walk from Lahas Blancas. I hadn't 415 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 2: been able to join them, but when they got there, 416 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: we ran into each other again, and they came up 417 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: to meet to share their concerns for the black men 418 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 2: who had walked with them. In one instance, one migrant 419 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 2: told me he was robbed by what he called quote 420 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: police dressed as thieves. The deportations, which seemed to be 421 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 2: increasingly commonplace, are being funded by US taxpayer dollars. The 422 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: same day that Molino took office in July, Homeland Security 423 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: Secretary Alejandro Majorcas, himself the child of migrants, visited Panama. 424 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 2: Panama's a relatively young country and one which the US 425 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: occupied part of for much of the last century, but 426 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: despite a real struggle for independence, the Panamanian government didn't 427 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 2: seem concerned that the U S Secretary of Homeland Security 428 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 2: was present at the inauguration of a president in a 429 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: country that decidedly not the U S homeland. The official 430 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 2: DHS readout of his trip notes that the US has 431 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 2: enjoyed a flourishing strategic relationship with Panama for over one 432 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 2: hundred years, which is certainly one way to sum up 433 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: decades of occupation, violence, and profit from the Panama Canal 434 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: and one of the more brutal dictatorships in the long 435 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: list of authoritarian regimes that the US preferred to minister, 436 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 2: even socialist governments in the Western Hemisphere. They also announced 437 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 2: that the US government would quote help the Panamanian government 438 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: to remove foreign nationals who do not have a legal 439 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: basis to remain in Panama. Obvious yet to take this 440 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 2: moment to note that under the United Nations Refugee Convention, 441 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: refugees do have a legal right to travel through a 442 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: country on route to another. His Erica describing that right. 443 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 6: The Refugee Convention is complex. 444 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 8: The UES afford a lot of rights to people who 445 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 8: have fled their countries based on persecution. You know you're 446 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 8: supposed to be able to pass through whichever country you want, 447 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 8: go to whichever country you want, not be criminally prosecuted 448 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 8: for crossing the border between ports of entry, and not 449 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 8: be turned back to a country where you face harm. 450 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: The US allocated six million dollars for a six month 451 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: pilot program of repatriations. If the program meets the USA's goals, 452 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 2: they might consider expanding it to other countries along the 453 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: migrant route. According to reporting in Rutters, as of early October, 454 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 2: they've deported five hundred and thirty people to Colombia. That's 455 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,239 Speaker 2: half the people I saw arriving in a single day 456 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: in Bajojigito. Because Panama's government and Venezuela's government have ceased 457 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 2: relations after the election, Panama is now struggling to deport 458 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 2: Venezuelan's back to Venezuela, and it's actively searching for a 459 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: third country into which to deport them. But even if 460 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 2: the program resulted in one plane loaded day, which it 461 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: hasn't yet, that would be roughly ten percent of the 462 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 2: total daily in traffic, and far fewer planes are traveling. 463 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 2: What it will do, like so many other DHS policies, 464 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 2: is play into the hands of smugglers. Already new ocean 465 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: routes are being used, which see migrants, many of whom 466 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: cannot swim, taking long journeys around Panama on ill equiped boats. 467 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 2: This doesn't help anyone apart from the DHS contractors and 468 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 2: staff equipping and training Panamanian personnel, and the human traffickers 469 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: making more and more money from migration. I also a shopkeeper. 470 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: His opinion on this. 471 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 5: Look, I'll tell you I think that instead of giving 472 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 5: them a reward for deportation, they should give them support, 473 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 5: a lot of support, because it is a huge sacrifice 474 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 5: to leave your country where you were born, your children, 475 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 5: your family, leave it to be able to have a future, 476 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 5: and you go with your mentality that your future is 477 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 5: the United States that will give you an opportunity to 478 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 5: get ahead and give well being to your children. Now, 479 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 5: ten percent of those who go are going to destroy 480 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 5: the good name of the migrants, But what people really 481 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 5: want to do is help their family, and this balance 482 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 5: unbalances everything that is being done by good people, because 483 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 5: there are many good people who want to get ahead, 484 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 5: and I think that the United States should support give 485 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 5: support to people who really want to fight and move forward. 486 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 5: As I just told you, they give a lot of 487 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 5: benefit they contribute to the country. 488 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 2: After leaving Las Blancas, I felt pretty down about the 489 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: fact that people were just hitting a wall that they 490 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 2: couldn't overcome. Since then, I've stayed in touch with many 491 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 2: of them. For some a friend or family member was 492 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: able to send the money and they made it to 493 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 2: costantly on the bus. From there, they crossed quickly into 494 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: Nicaragua and Guatemala before arriving in the Mexican border city 495 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 2: of Tapachula in the state of Chiapas and ironically not 496 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: so very far from whether Zapatista's made their revolution thirty 497 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: years ago. Once they crossed the southern border of Mexico, 498 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: migrants can begin their application for asylum using the CBP 499 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 2: one app that we've talked about so much on the 500 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: show before. They can use it in Tabasco and Chiapas, 501 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: the southern border states, and then once again when they're 502 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 2: north of Mexico City. To recap very briefly, the app 503 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: is terrible and almost every way, including its inability to 504 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: recognize blackfaces. It's limited functionality on Android phones, which is 505 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: a vast majority of devices used by migrants. It's constant 506 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 2: crashing an eight to nine month wait time for stylum appointments. His' 507 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: erico explaining some of those problems. 508 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 3: You have to have a relatively new smartphone, you have 509 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 3: to have an address, all the people you're traveling with 510 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 3: have to be with you right, and you have to 511 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 3: first get through the initial kind of registration phase. 512 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 6: Which doesn't always work. The program is very glitchy. 513 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 3: You have to take a live photo, and you have 514 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 3: to wait essentially, so you know, it's kind of random too. 515 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 6: Some people will get. 516 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 3: An appointment within three months, but I would say most 517 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 3: people are waiting nine to twelve At this point. You 518 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 3: don't have any legal status in Mexico while you're waiting, 519 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 3: unless you can apply for some other status in Mexico independently. 520 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: That it is yet very poorly designed. It's also a 521 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: de facto a metering system on asignum' erico explaining. 522 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 3: That we've been litigating against the use of CBP one 523 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 3: for a few years now now. My organization out at 524 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 3: the level and Patient Bridge Alliance, and the reason why 525 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 3: we are fighting against the required use of CBP one 526 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 3: is first because it is an illegal metering system. So 527 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: we've already litigated the fact that there is no number 528 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 3: limit on the amount of individuals who can seek asylum 529 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 3: at the US Mexico border, and Customs and Border Protection 530 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 3: legally does not have the right to turn people. 531 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 6: Away, and CBP one essentially allows them to do that. 532 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 3: You know, there were physical metering lists at ports of 533 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 3: entry before CBP one was implemented as essentially the only 534 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 3: way to access the US asylum system at ports of entry, 535 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 3: and now it's. 536 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 6: A digital metering list and it's very limited. 537 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: Recently, the Department of Homeland Security lost a court case 538 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 2: which forced them to release records in there with some 539 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: of the app plugs and data regarding CBP one. I'm 540 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: still in the phase of coming through that asking my friends, 541 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 2: you know more about technologies than I do, explain exactly 542 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: what the limitations with the app are, But it doesn't 543 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: really matter. DHS is well aware of the app's flaws, 544 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: and it doesn't really seem to see the most flaws 545 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,719 Speaker 2: at all. The goal of the app is to make 546 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: it harder for people, even those with very legitimate asylum claims, 547 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 2: to obtain asylum in the USA. As we heard yesterday, 548 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: the CHNV program is no better. A recently Reddit thread 549 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 2: of applicants who've been waiting nearly two years. What it 550 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: didn't mention yesterday is a parallel program for another group 551 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 2: of migrants, which I'll let Erica explain. 552 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 3: I want to mention the fact that there is a 553 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 3: cap I think it's thirty thousand a month or something 554 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 3: like that for those four countries, But it's almost identical 555 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 3: to the Ukrainian United for a Ukraine program, which doesn't 556 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 3: have a cap right, so there's no limit to how 557 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 3: many Ukrainians can get the same benefit. 558 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 6: And they are renewing the humanitarian prole. 559 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 3: For Ukrainians, which I believe was just announced almost within 560 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 3: weeks of them announcing that they're not renewing for the 561 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 3: other four countries. 562 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 6: So it's really a very stark demonstration of how the 563 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 6: US immigration system, even when it's a relatively mean or 564 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 6: benefit is based on race, is based on which country 565 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 6: you're from. 566 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: What this means is it in practice? The migrants I 567 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 2: spoke to face a long and dangerous way in Mexico 568 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 2: while others skip ahead. I've got nothing against the Ukrainians, 569 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: and I don't think many of them do either. I 570 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 2: tried to go to Ukraine and report, but the avisas 571 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: ended up taking so long that I missed the flights 572 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: that I'd booked. I have, however, a serious problem with 573 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: a Biden administration which left people who fought alongside its 574 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: own US troops to die in Afghanistan and turned away 575 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: migrants small over the world, but then opened its arms 576 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 2: to a country that just happened to have the majority 577 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: of its citizens be the same race as the president. 578 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 2: It's cruel and it's wrong, and it's barely ever even 579 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,479 Speaker 2: mentioned in national media coverage. But that's not fortunate enough 580 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 2: to be Ukrainian. Here's what waiting in Mexico looks like. 581 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 3: The incidence of crime director at migrants is horrifyingly high. 582 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 3: We had done an electronic survey a few years ago, 583 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: and this was during title forty two, when people were 584 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 3: just being expelled to Mexico, and if I remember correctly, 585 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 3: it was like around twenty five to thirty percent of 586 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 3: people had been either raped. 587 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 6: Such traffic assaulted, kidnapped. I mean, the list goes on 588 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 6: and on. 589 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 3: We've seen a lot of people lose their lives just 590 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 3: due to violence, and the kidnapping rates are through the roof. 591 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: Almost everyone you've heard from in this series is now 592 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 2: stuck in Mexico. Some of them have been kidnapped, paid, 593 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 2: ransomed and released. Some of them have been sexually assaulted. 594 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 2: Many of them have been robbed. Some of them have, 595 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: after surviving one of the most deadly land migration routes 596 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 2: on Earth, been killed while waiting in Mexico for an 597 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 2: app to stop crashing on their phones. Over a week 598 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: since I got home, I've seen them go gradually more 599 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 2: desperate and afraid just to get to Mexico. Many of 600 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: them have spent several thousand dollars. Once they're in Capatula, 601 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: they faced with the astronomical costs for the trip north 602 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 2: off just several thousand dollars more, and many of them, 603 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 2: their fund exhausted, have slept on the streets. Those didn't 604 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 2: speak Spanish struggle to find refuge. Those who did wanted 605 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 2: to move quickly north, but struggle to find the money here. 606 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: The Iranian migrants you heard earlier in the series explaining 607 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 2: what they'd already heard about CBP one. 608 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 4: It's so tough because the some polices in their way, 609 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 4: they are two to our money that became from Iran. 610 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 4: It was so difficult for us and the resumed a 611 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 4: way so Mexico. Mexico is so difficult for us and 612 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 4: something is CBP one is not working for our for us, 613 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 4: for Iranian people, Yeah, I hope the people who are 614 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 4: in Mexico City for about three months. 615 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 6: For three months, Yeah, CPP wanted. 616 00:34:59,200 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 9: Yeah. 617 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 4: Because of that, Iranian people go to the wall and yeah, yeah, 618 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 4: it's not our choice. 619 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: We have to do this. 620 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 4: We don't want them, but it's we have to do this. 621 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to explain that. According to a study 622 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 2: conducted at the University of Texas, wait times are as 623 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 2: high as eight or nine months on average. Now mexicoing 624 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 2: out it's on the thirty first of August that it 625 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 2: will provide security and food for migrants who have an 626 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 2: appointment to travel north from the south of the country 627 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 2: to the place where they have a CBP wall appointment. 628 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 2: Margarets absolutely have been robbed or kidnapped on their way 629 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 2: to their appointment and missed it as a result, but 630 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 2: they're just as honorable in the eight or nine months 631 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 2: that they have to wait for one. Margarets and Tapajula 632 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 2: are at a very high risk for kidnapping and are 633 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 2: often held until their families pay ransoms, but without money 634 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 2: or an appointment, they have little means of leaving the city. 635 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 2: Some choose to travel a little further north and then 636 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 2: hop on a freight train known as Labstia the Beast, 637 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 2: an extraordinarily risky endeavor that several of the people I 638 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 2: spoke to for this series have undertaken. The only place 639 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 2: to ride on these trains is on top of carriages, 640 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 2: exposing migrants to freezing temperatures in the desert night. Even 641 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 2: on the train, they're not safe from kidnapping. Like many migrants, 642 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 2: the Iranian group were well informed about domestic politics in 643 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 2: the US, and they said that when they made their 644 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 2: journey north, they wanted to be sure to avoid the 645 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 2: states where local law enforcement was likely to turn them 646 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 2: over for deportation. In reality, that could be any of 647 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: the states. But they're probably right that their life would 648 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 2: be a little easier on the West Coast. 649 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 4: I heard it's so difficult and about three months, four months, 650 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 4: more than seven months, they will arrest us in the US. 651 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 4: I heard in Mississippi. 652 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 2: It takes us in the middle of Africa. 653 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that the California is a 654 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 4: little little, little yeah, certainly our. 655 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,959 Speaker 9: Money is very excuse me, shits money in the world, 656 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 9: and we have to pay a lot of money for 657 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 9: this way. 658 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 4: Our one yeah dollar, one dollar is sixty thousand. 659 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 2: Some of course, which used to cross the border between 660 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: ports of entry as they become desperate to see their 661 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 2: families or afraid of remaining in Mexico. Since President Biden's 662 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 2: executive audio earlier this summer, doing this can result expedited 663 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 2: removal proceedings, and effectively, Biden's new ruling denies asylum by 664 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 2: default to anyone crossing the border when daily crossings have 665 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 2: passed twenty five hundred. In fact, this is the continuation 666 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 2: of extremely punitive and cruel politics that have been in 667 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 2: place since he was finally forced to stop using Title 668 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,959 Speaker 2: forty two, which, if you're not aware, is a public 669 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 2: health law used by the Trump administration and embraced by 670 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 2: the Biden administration as an asylum law. It has already 671 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 2: resulted in the deportations of people back to places where 672 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 2: they have extremely credible fears of harm and created a 673 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 2: system whereby migrants have no idea how they will be 674 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 2: treated on any given day. Again, it's play into the 675 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 2: hands of anyone seeking to smoke or migrants into the 676 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 2: country undertake well also harming innocent people coming to this 677 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 2: country to US for protection. He's Erica's short history of 678 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: Biden's asylent policy since last year. 679 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 3: So when the Biden administration lifted Title forty two, they 680 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 3: essentially imposed what I call a transitvent. 681 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 6: So there's a couple of components to it. 682 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 3: One is, if you do not enter the United States 683 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 3: out of port of entry with a CBP one appointment, 684 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 3: you are presumed ineligible for asylum unless you fall under 685 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 3: a few narrow exceptions which are not consistently applied. So 686 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 3: the exceptions are things like you were having a medical emergency, 687 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 3: you were running for your life, you know you couldn't 688 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 3: access the app for some reason. But in practice those 689 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 3: exceptions are almost never applied at ports. There's been a 690 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 3: few kind of alternative programs run by shelters or local 691 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 3: governments where people with extreme medical vulnerabilities, for example, can 692 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 3: be let in without an appointment, but we don't know 693 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,399 Speaker 3: whether the ban applies to them once they enter without 694 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 3: that appointment, right, So it's like I said, inconsistently applied exceptions. 695 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 3: If you enter between a port of entry, you're presumed 696 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 3: and eligible for asylum. Again, unless you meet some narrow exceptions, 697 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 3: and what that means is you can still apply for 698 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 3: other types of protection in the United States. So there's 699 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 3: two principal types of protection. One it's called withholding a removal, 700 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 3: which is like asylum but with a higher standard. And 701 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 3: then the other is Convention against Torture, which you just 702 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 3: have to prove it's more likely than not that your 703 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 3: own government will torture you, which is more extreme than persecution. 704 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 3: But is it necessarily based on a protected ground. So 705 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 3: the torture could be for any reason, but it's a 706 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 3: high hurdle. But the most important thing is those two 707 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 3: types of protection are not path to citizenship and they 708 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 3: do not allow you to petition for your family. So, 709 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 3: for example, if you get asylum in the US and 710 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 3: then you want to ask for your life and children 711 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 3: to join you, there is an avenue for that, and 712 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 3: all of you can eventually become citizens. Withholding a removal 713 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 3: and Convention against Torture, you basically get a work from it. 714 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 3: If conditions in your country change, they can deport you 715 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 3: and you can never leave the United States and you 716 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 3: can never reunify with your family, and you could never 717 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 3: become a citizen. 718 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 2: This won't deter people. I speak to people every day 719 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 2: who cross to Daddy in We're kidnapped, robbed, and sometimes 720 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 2: raped on their way here. They're going through all of 721 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 2: that because we refuse to give people a dignified or 722 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 2: safe way to come here. They know it's a risk, 723 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 2: and they continue to come because they think it's the 724 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 2: only option. His powers from coming and explaining that it's. 725 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 4: Deadly, how will lie to you. 726 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 9: It's fifty fifty alive on date. 727 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: Honestly, weecause, but we had to take the riks because 728 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: I think. 729 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 2: That was only awesome that we had. If you can't 730 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,720 Speaker 2: imagine taking those risks, it's likely because you can't imagine 731 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 2: the things these people are leaving behind either. As a 732 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 2: conflict reporter, I've been able to see a small amount 733 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 2: of what they're fleeing, war, death, poverty, state violence. I 734 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 2: don't know if i'd be brave or strong enough to 735 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 2: do the same, but I have a lot of respect 736 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 2: for people who can. Tomorrow we're going to talk about 737 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,800 Speaker 2: the people who help them along the way and what 738 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 2: you can do to support them. When the state works, 739 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 2: it could happen. 740 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 9: Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts, 741 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 9: from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, 742 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 9: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 743 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 9: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find 744 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 9: sources for it could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions. 745 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 9: Thanks for listening.