1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace. What city is your burgessing? 2 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: I don't know where I am. I'm yeah, I'm good. Listen, 3 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: take a deep breath. You know a city you're in? 4 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Are you in brex Hill? Are you hold on? Hold on? 5 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: Let me see I'm I'm yeah, I'm in Breckshill, all right? 6 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: And you're calling from age four h three five? Yes, yes, 7 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm connecting. I'm connecting you right over to brecks Hill. 8 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be right here with you. Don't hang up. 9 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: M Wow, you are hearing a nine one one call 10 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: that will send shivers down your spine. A teen commits suicide. 11 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: That's tragic in itself, But is that the whole story? 12 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: I may see, Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you 13 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: for being with us. Take a listen to more of 14 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: that nine one one call. Let's see what clues have 15 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: been left behind. Nine one My friend. My friend tried 16 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: to take a bunch of pills to kill himself, and 17 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: so I went to go and get him, but I 18 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: she shot himself. I mean, I mean some local park 19 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: in Breakfell. Is he alive? Check or anything like that? Okay, 20 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: what's your what is your location? I guess in Breckville. 21 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: Oh hunt, let me see what was that happen in 22 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: the full reservation in Breel Reservation. I'm down one of 23 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 1: the one of the side streets off off Breakville Road. 24 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: More of that nine one one calling and immediately leaps 25 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: to my mind. Who is making the call and why 26 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: are they there at a suicide? I mean, typically if 27 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: somebody's with you, they're talking you out of committing suicide. 28 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: So at first, of course you want to believe the 29 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: person calling nine one one, But then I mean it's 30 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: got a dot on somebody. Why is this person calling 31 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: to tell me about suicide? Why are they there as 32 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: a witness? What an all star panel? We have? Ashley Wilcot, 33 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer. You can find her at Ashley 34 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: Wilcott dot com. Stephen Lampley were now detective at Stephen 35 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: Lampley dot com. New book Outside Your Door on Amazon. 36 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner there at Erie 37 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: County with Nicol City Forensics. Don't ask her or how 38 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: many autopsies she's performed. You don't have time to hear 39 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: them all, literally hundreds and hundreds. Doctor Carla Manley joining me, 40 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: psychologist and fear specialist at doctor Carla Manley dot Com 41 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: of so many books, her most recent one Aging Joyfully 42 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: on Amazon, and right now to Fox A Cleveland investigative 43 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: journalist Peggy Gallick. Peggy, I've got so many questions about 44 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: this nine one call, but let's start with who is 45 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: the victim and what are the circumstances surrounding the victim's death. Well, 46 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: the victim police are just giving us the name of eighth. 47 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: This was a juvenile, This was an According to the 48 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,239 Speaker 1: autopsy reporter, it was a female. She was a female, 49 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: and they're only giving us the first name of eighth. Now, 50 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: the she apparently was having some issues and she was 51 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: picked up by her friend. Who you heard on that 52 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: nine one one call with me, Peggy Gallock, Fox A Cleveland, Peggy, 53 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: I find it very curious that she Ace is not 54 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: alone at the time of her suicide. Let me just 55 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Where did the suicide take place? Sure, 56 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: the suicide took place at the Brexville Reservation of the 57 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: Cleveland Metroparks. It's in Brexville, Ohio, which is outside of Cleveland, 58 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: about twenty twenty miles east outside of Cleveland. So let 59 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: me understand is that a park. You're saying reservation is 60 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: a park or a nature reserve? What is it? It's 61 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: a park, it's the Cleveland Metro Parks is all over 62 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: the Cleveland area, obviously, and it's a It's a very curious, 63 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: It's very curious. Peggy with me from Fox Say Cleveland 64 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: investigative journalist, Peggy Gallop. Because you know, doctor Carla Manley, psychologist, author, specialist. 65 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: You know, I've studied and studied and studied over many 66 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: many years the method and assessment of homicide and suicide. 67 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: It's very unusual. That's someone I'm just this is all anecdotal, 68 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: to leave your surroundings such as your home, and go 69 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: to an open area, unless you're jumping off a cliff, 70 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: to shoot yourself dead. Because typically, and my experience over 71 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: many many years, people commit suicide alone where they won't 72 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: be discovered, for instance, in their home with the door 73 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 1: locked and shut. I find this very odd to carl A. Manley, absolutely, 74 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: there is definitely something bizarre about the situation where there 75 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: are two people present, one is not talking the other 76 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: person out of committing suicide. But indeed what seems to 77 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: have happened is that it was the person was enabled, 78 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: and that makes it a really suspicious situation, right. You know, 79 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: there's a fine line, doctor Carlo Manley, between enabled and murder. 80 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: But long story short, I find it very very unusual 81 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: to ask you, Willcott that there's a witness to a suicide. 82 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll never forget, Ashley, never forget. David was 83 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: coming home to New York. They'd been out of town traveling. 84 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: It was either right before or right after we had 85 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: the twins, and he had taken a really early morning flood. 86 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: He was getting back into Legardi, like you know, getting 87 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: there at seven or eight in the morning. Anyway, he 88 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: came to the door him somebody at the door. I 89 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: ran to the door to see who it was. At 90 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: twins were asleep, and I opened the door. His face 91 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: was as white as a sheet, Ashley, I said, what 92 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: is it? He said, I saw a guy jump off 93 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: a bridge, so he had to be coming over the 94 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: fifty ninth Street bridge to get to our place from LaGuardia. Anyway, 95 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: I said, well, are you sure, and he went yes. 96 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: The guy had on a coat and I saw it 97 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: fly up around him as he jumped, and that detail 98 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: was so graphic. I mean, I knew that's what he 99 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: had seen. It was not a mistake, said, as you 100 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: call a police. He went, yes, I called police immediately 101 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: and they were on their way, and before I got here, 102 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: I heard sirens. So it was just it just threw 103 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: him off, and it threw me off to the point 104 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: I still remember it. And Ashley, I recall my very 105 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: very dear friend in the cable TV business, Bob. We 106 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: had known each other for years and years. Out of 107 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: the blue, I find out he committed suicide. He went 108 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: swimming at night in the San Francisco Bay. Of course 109 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: I've never been convinced to a suicide, but it's just 110 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: such a shot, such a shock. My point is, Ashley, 111 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: how can somebody stand by and let that happen? Well, 112 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: what goes hand in hand with suicide, Nancy, is that 113 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: you are by yourself, or in the alternative, sometimes you 114 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: hear about more than one person, but they commit suicide together, right, 115 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: So it doesn't make good common sense and it doesn't 116 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: feel right that somebody else is present when there's a 117 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: suicide and they survived, because that's not typical. That's not 118 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: usually what happens at all. Stephen Lampley, you've been around 119 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: the block a couple of times. What do you think 120 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: about there being a witness to a suicide. I don't 121 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: like it. Well, Nancy, there, you're correct, But there are 122 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: rare instances where an Indian I've never been on one 123 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: of those where an individual would be with someone attempting 124 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: to talk them out and they would just all of 125 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: a sudden commit the act suicide. Anyway, those are very 126 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: very rare. The closest that I have ever come to 127 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: that in twenty one years was attempting to serve a 128 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: juvenile pickup order on a juvenile and before I got 129 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: to his bedroom, he committed suicide. He knew I was coming, 130 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: but we didn't know he had a gun. But you're right, 131 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: it's very very rare for two individuals to be there 132 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: and the other party actually commits suicide in their presence. 133 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, a team commits suicide. You know, 134 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: I've got so many questions about it, and I'm going 135 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: to circle back to doctor Katherine Maloney regarding trajectory path 136 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: and how you can really health this was a suicide. 137 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: But with me Fox Say at Cleveland investigative journalists Peggy Gallock, 138 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: Peggy Okay, back to this. You're telling me they're out 139 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: in like a nature preserved type part. They're about twenty 140 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: miles outside of the city of Cleveland. They certainly wanted 141 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: to get away. I mean, it just seems to me 142 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: that your friend would know you've got a gun and 143 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: you're driving twenty miles away where nobody will be around. 144 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: What time of the day or night was it, and 145 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: how did this unfold? Peggy? This happened at night about nine, 146 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: about nine forty six on July twelfth, So it was 147 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: just starting to get dark that you know, that time 148 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: and summer, and this was out in the picnic area 149 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: north of the Picnic Area as that reservation at the time, 150 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: So they pretty much felt that they were going to 151 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: be by themselves out in that area. Take a listen 152 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: to what else we learn on the nine one one 153 00:10:50,280 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: call ye swallow a bunch of pills. And so I 154 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: went to get I pulled over because I had my 155 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: phone in my trunk, uh huh. So I got out 156 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: of the car to grab it. He grab it, got 157 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: out of the vac None of your thought, you know that, right? 158 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, Are you the friend who called Parma 159 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: or brought lights police earlier. No, somebody else called, I 160 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: believe so, yeah, I think they did. How old was 161 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:48,599 Speaker 1: your friend? Okay? Eddy, he said he told you he 162 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: was going to take some pills. Take He did take pills, 163 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: and he did take pills. Okay, he was throwing up 164 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: at the window of my car. Wow, more of that 165 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: heartbreaking nine one one call. Now you're hearing the voice 166 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: of nineteen year old Duncan macleroy. Listen to Morre. How 167 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: old are you? Duncan? Oh come today because it was 168 00:12:27,040 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: highly a good one. But is he ready to do? Yes? Okay? Nothing? Okay? 169 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: How do you spell your life from slate? Why ou 170 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: r ock? Okay? Conam, my dad hasn't had it for 171 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: so long. You're hearing more of that nine one one call. 172 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: We understand according to the caller that Ace just a 173 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl, swallowed a lot of peels. Then 174 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: they pulled the car over to get the phone out 175 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: of the trunk, and apparently somehow was there a gunshot wound. 176 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: Peggy Gallop Fox say Cleveland, how was the death? Ostensibly 177 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: a suicide achieved? It was gunshot. Ace, the seventeen year 178 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: old died of a gunshot wound and police. Then you 179 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: know they arrived at the scene and try to put 180 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: this together. So with a gun. Now on the phone 181 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: on the nine one you hear a lot about um 182 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: her Ace taking some pills. And I find that interesting 183 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: in itself, because in my mind, Ashy Wilcot, if somebody, 184 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: if my friend were stuffing peels down enough to kill themselves, 185 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: I turned out to get to the ear pronto instead 186 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: of continuing on. But that's not what happened. And according 187 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: to the nine one one call, it sounds like Ace 188 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: grabbed a gun, ran into the woods and shot herself 189 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: in the head. Now, the whole thing's not fitting together 190 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: for me, Ashley. No, not for me either. And keep 191 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: in mind that friends know what other friends are going 192 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: through and how they're feeling and what's going on with them, 193 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: and so honestly, most people are good. Most people know 194 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: if they have a friend that's going through these things, 195 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: not only would they rush into the ear call nine 196 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: one one, they certainly would not keep a firearm somewhere 197 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: that would even be accessible to their friends who may 198 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: be struggling. Let me go now to Nickel City Deputy 199 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner there at Erie County with Nickel City 200 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: forensics at the Erie County Medical Examiner's Office. You know 201 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: her well, doctor Catherine Maloney. Doctor Maloney, what are some 202 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: of the ways you can look at this team girl's 203 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: dead body and determine whether this was accident, murder or suicide. Well, 204 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: what you can look at is the location of the 205 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: gunshot wound on the head. There are certain areas, especially 206 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: when you have a long arm like a shotgun, where 207 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: it's easier to shoot oneself, whereas other areas of the 208 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: head where it would be difficult, if not impossible, because 209 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: of the way you have to kind of hold one 210 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: arm out very far away from your head to get 211 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: to the trigger because the barrel is so long. The 212 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: other thing to look at is whether or not there's 213 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: fouling or gunpowder in the wound or around the wound, 214 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: and the type of damage that was inflicted to the head. 215 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: Another issue when we're talking about homicide and suicide to 216 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: doctor Carlo Manley, psychologist, you can find at doctor Carlo 217 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: Manley dot com her new book Aging Joyfully on Amazon. 218 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Carla, again, if you look at suicide statistics, it 219 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: is extremely rare for a female to shoot themselves dead. 220 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean suicide is definitely categorized by age, by gender, 221 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: by race, by socioeconomic standards, by education. Who kills themselves 222 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: and how and where? And it's almost unheard of for 223 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: a female to shoot herself dead, Doctor Carlo Manley, those 224 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: are the statistics. Does it happen? Sure? Is it often? 225 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: Very rarely so? Which which adds fuel to my flame 226 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: of what really happened. Absolutely, when you look at what 227 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: happened at her age, female identified as male right growing 228 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: up outside the window, that would be more consistent somebody 229 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: who had taken pills. And I absolutely agree. Turn around, 230 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: you would normally take that young woman to an emergency facility. 231 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: But to have her shoot herself in the head, it 232 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Again, with the statistics, it's very inconsistent. 233 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the weapon. To Peggy Gallup fox Sake, 234 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: Cleveland investigative journalists, what kind of weapon was it? According 235 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: to the report here, it was a rifle. It was 236 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 1: a twenty two hour caliber ammunition with the report says, wow, 237 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: So talking about a rifle. Back to you, doctor Kathy Maloney, 238 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: how hard is it to shoot yourself dead with a 239 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: rifle a long gun? I mean, just think this through. 240 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,239 Speaker 1: It's not like you hold a handgun up to your 241 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: head and pull a trigger. You have to turn the 242 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: thing with the barrel pointing toward you and pull the 243 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: trigger backwards, like say, for instance, with your rib, pulling 244 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: it back toward your index finger, and propping the gun 245 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: up with your left hand if you're right handed, in 246 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,239 Speaker 1: the reverse if you're left handed. I mean, that's not 247 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: an easy thing to do, is it, Doctor Katherine Maloney. 248 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: It's definitely a lot more difficult than it would be 249 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: with a handgun, for sure. And there are also certain 250 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: areas on the head where it would be nearly impossible 251 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: to shoot oneself. Obviously the back of the head, and 252 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: even that the temple would be very difficult. Usually with 253 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: long arms, you see people shoot themselves you know more, 254 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: I guess in the face or in the chin, because 255 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: that's easier. Yeah, And another thing, Jackie Howard here in 256 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: the studio is pointing out all this happened in the 257 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: time the friend went to the car trunk, she got 258 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: a gun. The victim, a stinger, got a gun, ran away, 259 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: got to the woods and shot herself in that brief 260 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: amount of time. Okay, guys, let's go back to the 261 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: moment and the last of what we have with the 262 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: nine one one call, the one who told me that 263 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: I could buy a gonna huge gat in with Anny. Yeah, 264 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: I wonder. I'm wondering now if you just did it 265 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: so that he would have somebody with a gun your 266 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: fault Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the one who told 267 00:19:54,680 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: me that I could buy a gonna una in Anny, Yeah, 268 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: I wonder. I'm wondering now if you just did it 269 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: so that he would have somebody with a gun, not 270 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: your fault. Do you have your headlights on your car, Dunkin, No, 271 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: turn them on for me. That would be able to 272 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: help them find you a little quicker. Okay, I think lights, 273 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: but they're they're leaving again. What's that? I saw lights? 274 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: But they got the dark again. They went past him again. 275 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: He can't tell me where he is. Okay, I'm not 276 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: doubting the crying, the crying, that's a man crying. That's 277 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: not teen year old Duncan Chelroy crying. But then suddenly, 278 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: when there he's asked a question, he straightens up and 279 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: gives a straight answer. Is it true, Peggy Gallock? These 280 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: two only met about two weeks before the shooting. That's 281 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: what he's telling police. That's his statement to police. So 282 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: you know they are still digging into this and still 283 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: being investigated to see exactly when they met. They're going 284 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: through social media to try to determine that. But that's 285 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: what he told police. Are these two in a romance relationship? Peggy? 286 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: He is saying no, but again that this is his 287 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: statement to police, and he's given inconsistent statements to police 288 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: according to the reports. So we don't know the truth 289 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: at this point. But he said no, wait a minute, 290 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: you say they are inconsistent statements. What inconsistent state police? 291 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: Now wait, let me understand. What if I understand, let 292 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: me make sure I have this right, sure too, Ashley Willcott. 293 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: So these are two teams, the female victim, Ace Stinger, 294 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: seventeen and the young man Duncan McElroy, the one crying 295 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: on the phone, nineteen year years old, have only known 296 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,239 Speaker 1: each other two weeks and he's saying it's not a 297 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: romance or sex relationship, and he's been called an inconsistent statement. 298 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: Something is not fitting together, Ashley, Yeah, no, something doesn't 299 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: add up. And let me remind you, even though he's 300 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: a young man at nineteen, the brain's not fully developed. 301 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: So basically you have two teenage brains and there is 302 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: something amiss. It doesn't make sense that he allegedly knows 303 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: these things about his friends and his behavior. Something isn't true. Well, 304 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: another issue to add another wrinkle to this and trying 305 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: to figure out what happened is that Ace identifies she's 306 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: a young girl, she's a young lady. She identifies as 307 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: a man, and that adds a whole other layer of 308 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: potential emotional issues. How do I know if she hasn't 309 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: been bullied, How do I know if people didn't make 310 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: fun of her, How do I know if her family 311 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: had rejected her? To add to her emotional state, his 312 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: emotional state, it's it's very confusing and doctor Carlomanley at 313 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: doctor Carlomanley dot com, psychologist and fear specialist. Life is 314 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: hard enough, especially for teens, right even for a not 315 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: I trying to make everything and I know a lot 316 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: of people disagree with this as simple and straightforward for 317 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: the twins as I can. I try to give them 318 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: a smooth road and help in absolutely any way I can, 319 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: whether it's laying their clothes out in the morning or 320 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: reminding them of the homework assignments to make their life 321 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: a little bit easy, because when they get older, life 322 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: is going to be hard. It ain't easy punching a 323 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: clock every day and making a living and putting up 324 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: with just life in general. Then you throw in identifying 325 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: with your the opposite gender, which has got to be 326 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: emotionally trying, and you know she's face rejection, probably ridicule. 327 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: People have mistreated her, and that adds a whole another 328 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: layer for her. Doctor Carla Manley, absolutely when you add 329 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: in the piece of gender identity issues again, developmentally, for 330 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: a young person brain not fully milinated until they're twenty five, 331 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: it's very difficult for them to not have Wait a minute, 332 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: are you telling me what Ashley Wilcott said is true? 333 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: The brain is not formed. I thought she was just 334 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: fully milinated until twenty five, meaning it misfired. What are 335 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: you saying malinated? That sounds like laminated. What are you 336 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: saying the brain it's not fully what milinated, so that 337 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: the that the covering of the of the neural pathways 338 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: doesn't allow for misfiring, so that you're thinking without your 339 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: brain misfiring on you all the time. And so what happened, Well, 340 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: Ashley then apparently you're right, Ashley, maybe that, and I've 341 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: got lamination on my mind, Becau John David, nothing would do, 342 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: so we get a laminating Now we're laminating everything, Ashley, everything. 343 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: So you're right. I was just gonna say, did Nancy 344 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: Grace say I was right on air? Can we just 345 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: play that twice and I'll get off now? Okay? Good? Thanks? Yeah, sadly, 346 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: sadly where you know, this going straight out on the airways, 347 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: so there's no way I can redact that. So you're right, Ashley, 348 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: you win this round. But this is just this is 349 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: just the battle. It's just a skirmish. There's the war 350 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: to be had, doctor Carlomanley, So what's your point? I 351 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: think you're right, But what's your point You're getting at 352 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: as it relates to a stinger this girl. My point 353 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: is twofold a. You have the neurobiologically, you have the 354 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: teenage years being rather unsteady. That part is normal, we 355 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: expect that. Yet when you add in gender identity issues 356 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: the facts that go along with that, which are increased 357 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: rates of bullying if there is not adequate support at home, 358 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: increased rates of suicidality, increased rates of anxiety, and depression. 359 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: And if they don't have friends who are supportive, then 360 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: we have even more issues because gender identity is a serious, 361 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: serious mental health concern. And again I want to I 362 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: want to point out we are not in any way 363 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: saying a mental health problem like a mental illness. And 364 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: I just find it very hard to believe that when 365 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: you have some type of an identity issue that how 366 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: can we discount that we're on the outside looking in. 367 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: That is what how she felt, and we can't negate 368 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: that that is not a mental illness. That is how 369 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 1: she saw the world. Now, I'm certainly not a shrink, 370 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: and so I can't help, but I do know I 371 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: don't want this suggested to be any type of a 372 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: mental illness or a defect. This is the way she 373 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: was created. She was created to identify with a different gender. 374 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: That's her business, not mine. My business is what happened? 375 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: How did she end up dead? Now? Peggy Gallott earlier 376 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: had mentioned something about inconsistent statements. Could one of those 377 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: be about the rifle? What did he first say, I'm 378 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: talking about their little friend. Well he's not a little 379 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: he's nineteen years old, Duncan McElroy. That's an adult under 380 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: the law. What did he say about where the rifle 381 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: came from? As we remember and we heard him that 382 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: nine one, he said that you know that Ace stole 383 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: the gun from the trunk, from the back seat, from 384 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: the trunk when he stopped at the road. Later, when 385 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: he talked to police at the station, after he was 386 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: given his Miranda rights, he gave another statement. He then 387 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: told police, whoa so he gets arrested and has given 388 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: his Miranda rights. Yes, so police had to think that 389 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: he duncan McElroy was involved. Okay, go ahead, right and 390 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: the first he was voluntarily agreed to go to the 391 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: Metroparks to give another statement. Once he was there, they 392 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: immediately gave him his Miranda rights. He then said that 393 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: he purchased the box of the ammunition and the rifle 394 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: on the same day, separate, two separate purchases, on July twelfth, 395 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: and that he provided the rifle and ammunition to Ace, 396 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: who was sitting in his vehicle at the time of 397 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: the purchase. Wow, which is different than what he said 398 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: on the nine one one. That is a lot different. 399 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to police talking to McElroy. Did 400 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: you see a firearm it's fine. Is it back there 401 00:28:47,480 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: on him? Okay, there's something on your five stories with 402 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Could you see a firearm? It's fine, give 403 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: it back there on him. Okay, there's nothing on you? Right, 404 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: So okay, what's yeah? Right? You're hearing him speaking. And 405 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: this is the person that we now know has been 406 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: given Miranda rights. Duncan McIlroy Now take a listen to 407 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: our friend Hannah Catlett at nineteen News. The man says 408 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: everything unfolded when he pulled his car over inside the 409 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: Brexville Reservation. The police say there have been inconsistencies in 410 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: his stories and that that's why he's now a suspect 411 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: in this case. Police say the two had known each 412 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: other for two weeks. Officer said mckelroy tried to kill 413 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: the victim four days before he made this phone call too. 414 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: Just a short time before the call, police and McElroy 415 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: told them he'd purchased a rifle and ammunition. Tonight, he's 416 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: facing murder charges and four counts of assistant suicide. The 417 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: photo of this gorgeous young teen Ace Stinger found dead 418 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: in Breakfell just outside of Cleveland, and she has got 419 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: the most beautiful smile she doesn't look sad or depressed, 420 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: which of course is no indicator. I don't know what's 421 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: going on in her personal life behind closed doors, but 422 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: I just heard something that made me stop in my tracks. 423 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: Peggy Gallup, Foxay Cleveland investigative journalist. Is it true that 424 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: Duncan McElroy tried to kill a stinger four days before? 425 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: The report that I received said the defendant tried to 426 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: kill the defendant four days before. So police are giving 427 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: me a little bit of different information than what I 428 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: heard on there. They're saying that he tried to kill 429 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,719 Speaker 1: himself for days prior. Okay, that doesn't make sense to me. 430 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: I'm looking at both of these and they both look 431 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: are baby faced and Ohio man just nineteen now accused 432 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: of helping a seventeen year old commits suicide by buying 433 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: a gun and AMMO and has pled not guilty. But 434 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: look at this evidence. McElroy buys the gun, buys themo, 435 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: drives ace the teen to the breakful reservation it's like 436 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: a nature preserve, then helps the teen commit suicide by 437 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: shooting in the head. I mean, when you lay it 438 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: out like that to doctor Katherine Maloney, what more can 439 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: you tell us about the friends six themselves. Well, really, 440 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: with the autopsy, I mean, you could try looking for 441 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: a trace evidence and try looking at the characteristics of 442 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: the wound to see if you can tell something about 443 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 1: range of fire. That would be pretty suspicious as opposed 444 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: to a close range. And that's really the type of 445 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: information you're going to get from performing an auto absolutely. 446 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: For instance, if duck On McElroy, now charged with murder 447 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: and assisted suicide, had gunshot residue on himself, that means 448 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: he is at least thirty six inches close to the shooting, 449 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: because that's about how far gunshot residue. It's like baby 450 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: powder can travel at the time a weapon is fired. 451 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: To ask she Wilcot, judge and trial lawyer. You can 452 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Do you believe, 453 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: based on what you know about the case, there is 454 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: enough evidence convictim. Do you think that there's enough evidence 455 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: to convictim of some crime, for instance, assistance with suicide, 456 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: Whether or not there is enough evidence to convictim of 457 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: murderers specifically going to depend on the forensics, because I 458 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: need to know a little more information about we're his 459 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: fingerprints on the gun, what was he doing specifically, and 460 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: then maybe I'm very curious about what she just said. 461 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: If there are fingerprints on the gun and what more 462 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: forensically do we know to Peggy Yallick Fox at Cleveland, Peggy, 463 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: what do we know about forensics right now? We don't 464 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: know too much because that's still under investigation. We've been 465 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: trying to get the autopsy report and some other information 466 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: from that and we haven't been able to get it yet. 467 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: It should be released in the next few weeks because 468 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: this is going on in court right now, So of 469 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: course the defense attorney is putting in, you know, requests 470 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: to get that information from the prosecutor, so we should 471 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: be seeing that sometime soon. There are also four counts 472 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: of assisted suicide. So let me understand something, Ashley Wilcot. 473 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: Is the murder, would the murder merge under the law 474 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: with assisted suicide or will they be standalone counts? For instance, 475 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: let's just say I shoot Jackie here in the studio, 476 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: shoot or dead. Sorry, Jackie, it was nice knowing you. 477 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: You're wonderful, rest in peace. I wish you only the 478 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: best in the next life. But the aggravated assault of 479 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 1: me holding the gut up and scaring her merges with 480 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: the murder, so there won't be two different sentences on that. 481 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: So in this case, do you believe assisted suicide would 482 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: merge in that manner with murder? I don't, And here's why, because, 483 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio, assisted assists suicide or assisting 484 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: suicide means knowingly helping the parent, excuse me, the person 485 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: not the parent, helping the person committed or attempts suicide, 486 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: versus the murder statute that specifically requires that it was 487 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: an intentional killing. And so I do not think it 488 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: would merge. That's my interpretation in the statute. I'm very 489 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: curious why they are not releasing any more information. What 490 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: more evidence, if any, do they have Peggy Gallot to 491 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,399 Speaker 1: show a murder. Well, right now, the police are saying, 492 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: you know, he provided that inconsistent statement, so that put 493 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: up their red flags right away. So they brought him 494 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: in to talk to him more, and he gave the police, 495 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: you know, more information that you know he did get 496 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: that gun that day, that he actually provided the rifle 497 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: and ammunition to her when she was sitting in the car, 498 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: So that was enough for them to arrest him. After 499 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: that time, he got a couple of lawyers and quit 500 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: talking to police. So they are still you know, putting 501 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: this all together, going through computers and phones. So try 502 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 1: to get this. It's in court right now. The prosecutors 503 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: actually wanted to revoke his bond last week and they 504 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: were able to work something out with the judge. But 505 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: they've added to his bond requirement that he's not allowed 506 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: to talk to any mine or or any high school 507 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: student other than his siblings, which I thought was very 508 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: interesting that they added that as part of his you know, 509 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 1: bond to let him get out. And he is at 510 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 1: a facility right now, a mental health facility. Peggy Gallack, 511 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 1: just to buddy the water. Is it true that Duncan 512 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: McElroy is also charged with pandering obscenity involving a minor? Yes, 513 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: it is absolutely. He is facing one kind of that, 514 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, the four counts of the assistant suicide also 515 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: furnishing the firearm to a minor, but also that pandering 516 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: obscenity is definitely included in that. Well, I mean, what 517 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: are the facts surrounding the pandering obscenity? Plice aren't giving 518 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: us too much on that at this point, other than 519 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: he had some sort of images in his phone or 520 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: his computer. That's all that they're telling us that at 521 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: this time. I will tell you that adding fuel to 522 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,280 Speaker 1: the flame is the fact of an alleged murder attempt 523 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: four days before the shooting. So we'll see how this 524 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: all pans out in a court of law. To Ashley Wilcott, 525 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: do you believe that there is a dangerous trend off 526 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: assist to suicides now? Well, you know, I don't know 527 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: that there's any more of a trend than there ever was, 528 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 1: or that it wasn't happening before, or rather, I think 529 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: the distinction is now the law is looking at it 530 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: and actually charging those who are assisting with murder or 531 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: assisting with suicide. So we know this is the second 532 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: case that you've covered specifically, and the young lady that 533 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: was texting our boyfriend in the car then committed suicide. 534 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: So I think the trend now is as a society, 535 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: we're not going to put up with this. These are 536 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: going to be individuals that are going to face criminal 537 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,879 Speaker 1: charges if they make the decision to help their friend 538 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: do these things. Do you believe? Dotor Carlomanley, psychologists fear 539 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: specialist at Door Carlomanley dot Com that treatment should be 540 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: harsher or less harsh on people that assist with suicide. 541 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: I think that it's important to look at the circumstances, 542 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: and I think that if it's something that's been that's 543 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: difficult because if it's a life threatening situation, somebody who's 544 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: suffering from cancer, that sort of thing that's considered you know, 545 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: assisted suicide, right. But in this case, where it's a teen, 546 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: where there are alternatives, where there is help available for 547 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: whatever unrest is going on, I think that that's an 548 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: incredibly serious action and something that is very close, if 549 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: not akin to murder. Nancy Grace crime story is signing 550 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,