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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: This Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini, and Lisa Matteo.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 3: You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on

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Speaker 3: the podcast, but also make sure to join us live

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Speaker 3: every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at seven am Easter.

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Speaker 4: We're on Bloomberg Television, Radio and the Bloomberg Business App,

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Speaker 4: bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics,

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Speaker 4: lifestyle and culture.

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Speaker 5: A few people have managed to tell the American story better,

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Speaker 5: spanning all of its history and documentary filmmaker Ken Burns

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Speaker 5: that's right.

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Speaker 2: We spoke to the Brooklyn native and Emmy Award winner

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Speaker 2: to get his perspective on this moment in American history.

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Speaker 6: I was taught a kind of superficial, top down, kind

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Speaker 6: of sanitized, almost Madison Avenue, bloodless gallant story, and that's

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Speaker 6: okay to begin with. But I found the more complicated

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Speaker 6: story that much more inspirational and obviously more interesting.

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Speaker 7: You know, we're born in violence.

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Speaker 6: That's the one thing we don't want to, you know,

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Speaker 6: talk about. We accept the violence of the Civil War

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Speaker 6: and the twentieth century wars who've been in, but the

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Speaker 6: American Revolution is incredibly bloody revolution and civil war and

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Speaker 6: also perhaps the fifth global war over the prize of

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Speaker 6: North America. There's a lot of economics going on here

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Speaker 6: between the thirteen colonies that Britain has in the Caribbean

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Speaker 6: that are based on slavery, the less profitable North American

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Speaker 6: ones though Virginia and South Carolina trade obviously tariffs, obviously taxation,

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Speaker 6: obviously representation, obviously inflation, obviously devaluation. It's all going on

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Speaker 6: there in the midst of you know, what is the

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Speaker 6: most significant revolution in the history of humankind.

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Speaker 2: I do think that's a good point, because I don't

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Speaker 2: know what it is about. Reaching middle age, you suddenly

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Speaker 2: get an undying.

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Speaker 8: Affinity for history.

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Speaker 2: But I was watching your series and reading up on

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Speaker 2: the Revolution, and it does seem to have been a

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Speaker 2: much bloodier occasion than we were really led to believe

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Speaker 2: where we were taught.

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Speaker 8: Why do you think that is?

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Speaker 6: I think it's to protect the big ideas that are

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Speaker 6: coming out of Philadelphia. Somehow we think they're going to

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Speaker 6: be diminished, but they're not. In fact, they're even bigger

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Speaker 6: when you realize the chances. The odds at Lexington and

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Speaker 6: conquered on April nineteenth, seventeen seventy five were zero, and

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Speaker 6: suddenly six and a half years later, not so suddenly,

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Speaker 6: a very long, bloody war. They're one hundred percent. How

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Speaker 6: we got there, Who was involved? Who are the characters?

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Speaker 6: We know the top down people, but they're presented to

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Speaker 6: us as these kind of perfect marble statues, and therefore

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Speaker 6: they're not accessible.

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Speaker 7: If you make them human and dimensional, then they're suddenly accessible.

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Speaker 7: We can be like them.

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Speaker 6: But we can also find out that there's scores of

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Speaker 6: other people that we introduce you to, who are teenagers,

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Speaker 6: little girls, French soldiers, American gis, if you will, women,

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Speaker 6: fifty percent of the population.

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Speaker 7: They're there at every battle as our children.

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Speaker 6: It is an amazing, amazing story, and how we beat

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Speaker 6: one of the great powers, the most far flung empire

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Speaker 6: on earth, the Great Britain is one of the marvels,

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Speaker 6: and with ideas that had never been tested. No, everybody

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Speaker 6: was a subject under authoritarian rule, and all of a

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Speaker 6: sudden we were suggesting, Nope, you could be a citizen.

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Speaker 6: It's as powerful it could get and it's something to

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Speaker 6: really celebrate on the fourth. Two hundred and fifty years

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Speaker 6: is a magnificent achievement to have gotten there. And I

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Speaker 6: think even in times of division, you want to go

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Speaker 6: back and find out your origin story. That helps you

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Speaker 6: sort of figure out where you are. You know, where

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Speaker 6: you come down on the big questions.

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Speaker 2: You know, and maybe because that story is more multifaceted,

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Speaker 2: then we may have initially been taught. I know your

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Speaker 2: new series, The American Revolution, it's centered on all of this,

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Speaker 2: but the setting the Declaration of Independence. We have a

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Speaker 2: quick clip and then I'm going to ask another question.

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Speaker 8: The American Revolutionary movement served as a model for freedom

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Speaker 8: from oppression.

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Speaker 6: America is predicated on an idea that tells us who

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Speaker 6: we are, where we came from, and what our forebears

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Speaker 6: were willing to die for.

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Speaker 3: Colin said, no taxation without representation.

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Speaker 7: The fear was if we give in to this precedent,

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Speaker 7: what will they do in the future. Crisis changes people.

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Speaker 4: It gave different people different ideas about what they should

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Speaker 4: be doing.

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Speaker 2: It gave them a space to make this democracy real.

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Speaker 5: The founders thought, we can start over again. We can

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Speaker 5: begin the world.

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Speaker 2: A new One of the other predominant narratives when we

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Speaker 2: learn this as kids, is it's all these great men.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a handful of great men who did this.

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Speaker 2: But in your documentary, and as I'm learning more about it,

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Speaker 2: it was great men, but it was also all of us.

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Speaker 2: It was everyone. It was all kinds of regular people.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that's why the documentary has been so popular.

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Speaker 2: We were talking before we came on about the response

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Speaker 2: to this.

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Speaker 6: Well, the response has just been stunning, And yes, I

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Speaker 6: think it is. Everybody likes a complicated story. Everybody likes,

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Speaker 6: you know, Yellowstone with all its characters and dynamics, And

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Speaker 6: what you don't want is to have your sense of

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Speaker 6: George Washington just being the marble statue out there collecting pigeon,

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Speaker 6: you know what, in the park.

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Speaker 7: You get to know him as a human being. He's dimensional.

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Speaker 6: And despite the fact that we have four hundred first

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Speaker 6: person voices read by sixty one of the finest actors

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Speaker 6: in the world bringing to life these people, including all

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Speaker 6: of the other folks that are never mentioned in our textbook,

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Speaker 6: in the end, one of the more exhilarating parts of

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Speaker 6: this is you get to say we don't have a

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Speaker 6: country without George Washington, and you begin to understand. You

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Speaker 6: know his flaws, but you also know his unbelievable strengths.

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Speaker 6: And so much of what we're going to be celebrating

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Speaker 6: on Saturday comes and issues from his humility, his great

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Speaker 6: powers of persuasion, to have men fight in the dark

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Speaker 6: of night, and to fight for a cause that nobody

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Speaker 6: had ever champion before in the history of humankind, to

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Speaker 6: make people from New Hampshire and Georgia realized they were

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Speaker 6: from the same country, not different countries as they thought,

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Speaker 6: to defer to Congress, and then at the height of

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Speaker 6: his military power to give that up, and the height

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Speaker 6: of his political power to give that up.

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Speaker 7: And even George the third he's not.

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Speaker 6: The crazy person that we think from Hamilton and our textbook,

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Speaker 6: but a really interesting monarch says well, if he did that,

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Speaker 6: George Washington, then he is the greatest character of the age.

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Speaker 7: And guess what he is.

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Speaker 6: And so all of these revelations just about the so

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Speaker 6: called ordinary people, the bottom up folks who are making

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Speaker 6: this possible, but also those top down, boldface male names

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Speaker 6: that are there at Philadelphia deserve complexion, deserve complication, deserve

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Speaker 6: to understand what's going on in their lives personally and

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Speaker 6: what they are flaws.

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Speaker 7: Warts and all.

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Speaker 6: Nobody's perfect, and the idea that we've made our founders

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Speaker 6: perfect has then made it harder for us to actually

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Speaker 6: get inside the revolution and participate in what is truly

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Speaker 6: one of I mean, I said on the road, we

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Speaker 6: say in the film it's the most consequential revolution in history.

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Speaker 6: I've said in the last year and a half of

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Speaker 6: being out promoting it that it's the most important event

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Speaker 6: since the birth of christ.

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Speaker 8: I want to ask you.

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Speaker 2: You have done so many documentaries on so many different

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Speaker 2: significant moments in America's two hundred and fifty year history.

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Speaker 2: I think about the Civil War, which aired more than

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Speaker 2: thirty years ago, Vietnam War documentary. When you look at

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Speaker 2: those really divided times in American history, how does that

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Speaker 2: compare to where we are now?

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Speaker 7: Christina.

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Speaker 6: That's the question for the moment, because I think that

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Speaker 6: all of us have a kind of arrogance. Those in

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Speaker 6: the presence sort of think, oh, it's the best or

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Speaker 6: the worst. This couldn't be. You know, we're in where

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Speaker 6: you know the sky has fallen. We're way more divided

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Speaker 6: during our revolution than we are now way more divided,

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Speaker 6: as you suggest, in the Civil War, in the period

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Speaker 6: after Civil War called Reconstruction, which I'm working on a

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Speaker 6: film series about right now, during the Vietnam period, other

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Speaker 6: times of great stress and trauma. And so I think

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Speaker 6: what happens when your in crisis, you want to go

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Speaker 6: back as an individual and go to that pastor that

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Speaker 6: professional who's going to ask you very first thing, where'd

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Speaker 6: you come from?

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Speaker 7: Who your parents? What's your origin story?

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Speaker 6: And I think by going back to the origin story,

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Speaker 6: it can give us some strength to go forward.

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Speaker 7: And clearly it's working.

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Speaker 6: You know, for the first time in the history a

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Speaker 6: PBS program entered the top ten of streaming shows. Back

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Speaker 6: in November when we first broadcast with extraordinary numbers more

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Speaker 6: than twenty million old fashioned broadcast viewers, and that represented

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Speaker 6: five hundred and sixty five million minutes of streaming. It's

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Speaker 6: now well over four billion. People are starved for a

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Speaker 6: sense of where we were, so that we can know

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Speaker 6: where we are. Just think about it, almost as as

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Speaker 6: mathematics or astronomy. You're going to fix where we are

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Speaker 6: right now by knowing more about where we were. You

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Speaker 6: can't possibly know where you are unless you know where

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Speaker 6: you are, where you've been, and more importantly, where you

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Speaker 6: may be going.

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Speaker 2: I do want to ask what your thoughts of how

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Speaker 2: people are approaching history in this country at this moment,

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Speaker 2: especially given that you work for PBS.

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Speaker 8: The funding there has been cut.

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Speaker 2: It is. I don't think of your documentaries as politically controversial,

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Speaker 2: but more and more, trying to tell even a neutral

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Speaker 2: story can be very difficult and very fraud especially with

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Speaker 2: these topics.

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Speaker 8: How do you navigate that?

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Speaker 6: Well, it's always been tough, but it's more tough for

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Speaker 6: us inside. You know, Mark Twain said history doesn't repeat itself,

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Speaker 6: but it rhymes. It means we're constantly working on things

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Speaker 6: that are rhyming. Sometimes those rhymes last throughout the entire

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Speaker 6: production and will last for the entire life of the film.

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Speaker 6: Sometimes you know, there's a German wife of a German

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Speaker 6: officer coming to the United States who's fearful.

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Speaker 7: That Americans eat cats.

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Speaker 6: So if the film had come out last year, in

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Speaker 6: twenty four or in the fall of twenty four, year

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Speaker 6: and a half ago, you know that was the operative thing.

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Speaker 6: Americans eating cats long gone. Nobody mentioned it, and that

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Speaker 6: was it. So we are very very conscious of not

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Speaker 6: putting our thumb on the scale. We don't have a

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Speaker 6: political act to grind. I've taken stuff out because I

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Speaker 6: don't want to be misinterpreted as somehow a political commentary,

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Speaker 6: and that's why we've attracted people young and old, both

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Speaker 6: sides of the aisle.

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Speaker 7: But we are in a period where people are.

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Speaker 6: Trying to limit the history, saying it's only one kind

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Speaker 6: of history, which is the way it has worked.

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Speaker 7: Throughout American history.

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Speaker 6: And quite frankly, though, the funding cutbacks for PBS have

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Speaker 6: really made it tough for us.

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Speaker 7: We're not going anywhere.

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Speaker 6: This has been a huge, big win for them, and

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Speaker 6: we have the opportunity to tell stories that I can't

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Speaker 6: tell anywhere else. I could go to a streamer, I

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Speaker 6: could go to a premium cable and ask you for

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Speaker 6: thirty million dollars to make a film on the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 6: But they're not going to give me ten and a

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Speaker 6: half years to make it. There's going to be layers

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Speaker 6: of suits telling me how to make it. And I'm

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Speaker 6: as proud of that film as any I have ever done,

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Speaker 6: because of the complexity that went into it, and because

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Speaker 6: of the fact we were able to avoid the narrow

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Speaker 6: partisan politics that afflied our daily news, and that's what

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Speaker 6: Americans want to have.

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Speaker 7: What's the long view?

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Speaker 3: What happened?

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Speaker 6: I mean, I had a friend come up to me

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Speaker 6: in the eight meltdown, which I'm sure you remember in

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Speaker 6: early October of two thousand and eight, and said, when

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Speaker 6: he was in the financial services, he said, this is

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Speaker 6: a depression. And I looked at him and I said,

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Speaker 6: in the depression. And I've been studied the depression four

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Speaker 6: or five of the various films that I've worked on.

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Speaker 6: I said, in the depression, in many American cities, the

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Speaker 6: animals in the zoo were shot and the meat distributed

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Speaker 6: to the poor. When that happens, I'll say, we're in

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Speaker 6: a depression. But for right now, it's a painful, really serious,

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Speaker 6: very deep recession. But you could see his face changed,

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Speaker 6: his countenance stage. There was a little bit later step

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Speaker 6: as if, oh, you know, the sky isn't falling. And

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Speaker 6: I think this is the great gift of history, and

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Speaker 6: everybody is interested in that gift. It doesn't matter who

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Speaker 6: you voted for, it doesn't matter how old you are,

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Speaker 6: how rich you are, what your sex is.

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Speaker 7: It's a good story is a good story.

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Speaker 6: Is a good story, and may I say, Christina, there's

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Speaker 6: no better story than the story of how we came

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Speaker 6: into being.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right

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Speaker 3: after this.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back Bloomer this weekend, I'm David Gera alongside Christina Raffini,

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Speaker 5: live from the Intrepid Museum this DEEAC commissioned aircraft carrier

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Speaker 5: on the Hudson River from New York City right.

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Speaker 2: And we are awaiting the start of this massive ship

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Speaker 2: parade and aerial display. Today's historic milestone being celebrated throughout

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Speaker 2: the country and especially on the waterways behind us. You're

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Speaker 2: going to see tall ships behind us. Shortly the Vice President,

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Speaker 2: we've seen his osprey has taken flight.

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Speaker 8: He's expected to land soon and make remarks.

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Speaker 2: And we're also going to talk to other leaders, including

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Speaker 2: Maryland Governor Wes Moore, who I believe is joining us now.

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Speaker 8: Happy fourth of July. How are you, sir?

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering as you look at all these events across

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Speaker 2: the country, what do you see as you look back

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Speaker 2: on the two hundred and fifty years of America?

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Speaker 8: Do you see unity or do you seek.

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Speaker 9: I see a country that has had two hundred and

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Speaker 9: fifty years of really one of the most remarkable journeys

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Speaker 9: in world history, where we were founded on an idea

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Speaker 9: and founded on a promise, a promise that we were

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Speaker 9: going to see everybody and that we would create something

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Speaker 9: new and unique.

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Speaker 10: That truth has been the greatest experiment in world history.

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Speaker 9: And I think we're now looking at a country that

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Speaker 9: continues to work to honor its promise, and that is

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Speaker 9: the work of patriotism. In fact, I'll be giving an

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Speaker 9: address from the Maryland State capital really talking about how

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Speaker 9: the work of patriotism is a commitment to sacrifice and

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Speaker 9: a commitment to service. That we believe in each other,

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Speaker 9: we fight for each other. That's what's make this country

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Speaker 9: unique in the past, and that's what will continue giving

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Speaker 9: this country strength in the future.

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Speaker 5: Talk a bit more about that the speech that you're

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Speaker 5: going to give there in Annapolis. A lot of veterans

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Speaker 5: will be in the audience for that speech. There's this

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Speaker 5: notion that patriotism has become a contested thing, and I

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Speaker 5: gather that's something that you want to push back against

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Speaker 5: in that speech you're going to deliver.

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Speaker 9: It is because patriotism is not political, and patriotism is

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Speaker 9: not partisan.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 10: Patriotism is the people who were willing.

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Speaker 9: To fight for the hope of us, the ones who

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Speaker 9: were willing to put on this country's uniform and fight overseas,

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Speaker 9: and the ones who are willing to serve as doctors

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Speaker 9: and nurses back home and to heal them when they

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Speaker 9: came home. It was the people who were willing to know,

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Speaker 9: willing to fight and work in the shipyards, and the

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Speaker 9: people who were the conductors in the underground railroad. That

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Speaker 9: patriotism just simply means, are you willing to fight for

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Speaker 9: the hope of something that you might not even see yourself,

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Speaker 9: but you are doing it because hopefully future generations will

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Speaker 9: be able to benefit from the work that you have done.

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Speaker 9: We are a nation of patriots, and which means we're

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Speaker 9: a nation of public servants. And I think that's the

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Speaker 9: thing I want to be able to focus on is

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Speaker 9: showing that this is not political and it is not partisan,

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Speaker 9: that no party owns that. That is something that makes

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Speaker 9: this country so special and it's something that we must protect.

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Speaker 2: I do want to ask you about the status of

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Speaker 2: the American dream. Our colleagues at BBC, I was listening

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Speaker 2: this morning, went out and asked for people to send

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Speaker 2: them messages about what it means to be an American today,

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Speaker 2: and most of them were overwhelmingly positive. But a couple

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Speaker 2: from people, and I've heard this among first generation and

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Speaker 2: families that I talked to, or just friends who are

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Speaker 2: immigrants in this country, that the American dream, you come here,

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Speaker 2: you work hard, you bootstrap yourself up, anything is achievable,

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Speaker 2: is seeming harder and more distant than it used to

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Speaker 2: be for a lot of people, even folks whose whole

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Speaker 2: life wanted to come to America and now they're not

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Speaker 2: sure that was the right decision. Talk to us about

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Speaker 2: the status of the American dream. Do you think it is

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Speaker 2: still achievable? And if not, what can we do to

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Speaker 2: change that? What do politicians and lawmakers need to do

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Speaker 2: to make that possible again?

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Speaker 9: You know, I think that I understand why people have skepticism.

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Speaker 9: You know, we are in a society right now where

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Speaker 9: people do feel like they're working harder and making less.

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Speaker 10: We are in a society.

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Speaker 9: Right now where people feel like everything is just more expensive,

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Speaker 9: and they're watching people in the highest offices, you know,

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Speaker 9: enriching themselves sitting and sitting in these offices, So.

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Speaker 10: I understand why they're skepticism. The you know, the thing that.

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Speaker 9: I would just say is, while while that skepticism is

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Speaker 9: real and justified and frankly skepticism that I have as well,

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Speaker 9: that skepticism can serve as my companion, but I won't

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Speaker 9: let it become my captor. I won't let that skepticism

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Speaker 9: become something that allows me to forfeit and not forget

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Speaker 9: and forget all everything that people did coming before me.

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Speaker 9: You know, I'm going to be giving this addressed tonight

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Speaker 9: or today from the Maryland State Capitol as the first

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Speaker 9: black governor in the history of the state of Maryland,

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Speaker 9: knowing that I'm giving a speech in a building that

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Speaker 9: was partially built by the hands of enslaved people.

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Speaker 10: So progress is possible of this country.

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Speaker 9: But we just need to make sure that for both

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Speaker 9: our leaders and our everyday citizens, that we understand that

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Speaker 9: the work that is required in order for us to

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Speaker 9: continue to achieve the American dream is worked that all

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Speaker 9: of us must embrace.

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Speaker 5: Let me pick up on what Christina just asks, because

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Speaker 5: in addition to being governor, you've written many books, and

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Speaker 5: a lot of them have focused on opportunity in this

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Speaker 5: country and a few weekspeck I had a conversation with

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Speaker 5: Senator Raphael Warnock which he said he's a bit concerned

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Speaker 5: that the opportunities that he had wouldn't be available to

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Speaker 5: him today if he were younger and just starting out

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Speaker 5: in his life in his public life. I'm curious if

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Speaker 5: you share that sense. And I guess, moving beyond just

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Speaker 5: sort of the immigrant story in this country and that

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Speaker 5: notion of the American dream, how you think about opportunity

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Speaker 5: through the prism of the day that we're marking today,

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Speaker 5: the two and fifteth anniversary of this country.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I would say that opportunity is not a straight line,

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Speaker 9: and I think the promise of this country has not

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Speaker 9: been a straight line. I think that one thing we've

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Speaker 9: known about this country was that it was founded on

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Speaker 9: a on a on a promise. But truthfully, there has

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Speaker 9: never been a time in this country's history where that

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Speaker 9: promise was simply given. It has always been hurt and

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Speaker 9: this country has had a long history of complications. And

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Speaker 9: so the thing that I would the thing that I

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Speaker 9: continue to push for, is I continue to have a

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Speaker 9: clear understanding that that this country has always been littered

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Speaker 9: of times of inconsistency and pain and heartbreak and unfairness.

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Speaker 9: But it was the people who were never willing to

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Speaker 9: give up. Are the reasons that we are here now

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Speaker 9: to this day. And you know, one of the things

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Speaker 9: I'm very thankful for to be the governor of a state,

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Speaker 9: and be the governor of Maryland, is we're actually actively

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Speaker 9: working to do something about it where you know where

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Speaker 9: we've signed the largest mass pardon in the history of

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Speaker 9: the United States of America, giving people a second chance

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Speaker 9: with misdemeanor cannabis convictions over one hundred and seventy five thousand.

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Speaker 9: That we've been able to raise a minimum wage, That

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Speaker 9: we've been able to have the large investments in childcare

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Speaker 9: in our state's history. That we've been able to add

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Speaker 9: over fifty five thousand new businesses since I've been the governor,

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Speaker 9: That we've been able to have the fastest months, the

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Speaker 9: fastest drop in violent crime anywhere in the United States

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Speaker 9: of America. That these challenges are still real, but we

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Speaker 9: actually have a chance to do something about it. And

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Speaker 9: I just refuse to spend time wallowing on where we are,

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Speaker 9: knowing that the people who came before me didn't do that,

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Speaker 9: and that's why we're in the situations that we have

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Speaker 9: right now.

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Speaker 8: Governor, I'm wondering as a leader of a state.

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Speaker 2: You know, we just finished this very interesting term at

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. The President did suffer a few losses,

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Speaker 2: but for the most part, we saw yet again another

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Speaker 2: expansion of executive power. And I wonder, as you think

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Speaker 2: on this two hundred and fifty anniversary about the Constitution

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Speaker 2: that enumerated powers clause. The powers that's not listed here

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Speaker 2: is reserved to the states. How do you think about

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Speaker 2: that balance between states rights, states powers, and the federal government.

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Speaker 2: Do you think governors should be doing more? Do you

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Speaker 2: think the uh that Washington is taking over too much?

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Speaker 2: Or do you think the balance is probably right where.

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Speaker 8: It should be.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 9: I think what's really important is for governors to never

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Speaker 9: forget the constitution.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 9: The beauty of the Constitution is that actually a lot

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Speaker 9: of the powers uh do not fall within the federal government.

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Speaker 9: A lot of powers fall within.

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Speaker 10: The state governments.

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Speaker 11: UH.

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Speaker 9: And it's important for governors to never lose sight of that.

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Speaker 8: Uh.

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Speaker 9: You know the reason that, for example, in the state

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Speaker 9: of Maryland, that we've had amongst the fastest drops in

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Speaker 9: violent crime uh, you know, anywhere in the United States

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Speaker 9: of America over you know, over a three year period,

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Speaker 9: is not because we activated the National Guard.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 9: And it is not because we deployed federal you know,

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Speaker 9: federal troops into our streets. It's because we actually started

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Speaker 9: working together with state and local leaders to be able to.

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Speaker 10: Bring the kind of results that we are looking for.

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Speaker 9: The reason that we've been able to have, you know,

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Speaker 9: amongst the fastest rises in public education, uh, in public

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Speaker 9: education score since the end of COVID is not because

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Speaker 9: the federal government did something, because in fact, in many ways,

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Speaker 9: education is a state run function according to the Constitution.

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Speaker 10: It's because we actually.

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Speaker 9: Started working together with communities and our educators and being

445
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 9: able to make sure that our kids should be able

446
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 9: to start earlier and be able to learn not just

447
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 9: how to be employees, but how to be employers, and

448
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 9: doing more with incomes of trade and apprenticeship programs. So

449
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 9: I am actually really thankful that governors have a unique

450
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 9: opportunity right now to not just protect their people, but

451
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 9: protect the Constitution. And I don't think that's something that

452
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 9: any governor should ever forfeit. To consolidate power amongst the

453
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 9: larger federal Executive.

454
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 5: We're talking to Governor Wes Moore of Maryland on this

455
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,959
Speaker 5: the fourth of July, the two and fiftieth, the adversary

456
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 5: of the sign of the Declaration of Independence, as we

457
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 5: see pictures of Vice President jad E. Vans and the

458
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 5: USS care surge beginning of the inspection of this naval

459
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 5: fleet here in Earnest and Governor I could ask you

460
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 5: if you're thinking of running for president. I suspect you

461
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 5: would demure. But picking up on what you've said just

462
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 5: just a moment ago, it does sound like what you

463
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 5: were laying out are parts of a vision for how

464
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 5: you think the Democratic Party should approach politics more broadly,

465
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 5: and something we often ask politicians on the show. Who's

466
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 5: the leader of the Democratic Party? And I wonder, so

467
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 5: if you see a void there and if you would

468
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 5: like kind of what you were describing to be kind

469
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 5: of more more central tenets of the party of what

470
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 5: you're a part.

471
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 9: You know, I think about the last election that we

472
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 9: just had in Maryland this past Tuesday, where you know,

473
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 9: we were not only able to win overwhelmingly in our

474
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 9: race for doctor, but also nominated and supported and endorse

475
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 9: a whole slate of candidates around the state what we

476
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 9: called our lead, no one behind sleeve. And the only

477
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 9: prerequisite that I had for people in the lead, no

478
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 9: one behind slate.

479
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 10: It's not a it's not a party affiliation nor a

480
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 10: wing of a party.

481
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 9: The only prerequisite I had was, are you ready to

482
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 9: disrupt the status quo and are you ready to move

483
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 9: fast to be able to bring real results for people?

484
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 9: And that is the direction that I think we have

485
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 9: to be able to move in, and not just as

486
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 9: a party, but as a country where we got to

487
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 9: stop being a place of know and slow and start

488
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 9: being a place of yes. And now we have to

489
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 9: understand that the frustrations that people have, they are real.

490
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 9: And if you're not focusing on doing everything you can

491
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 9: to increase housing inventory, everything you can to work to

492
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 9: control costs, everything you can to be able to create

493
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 9: educational opportunities for our kids, everything you can to be

494
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 9: able to make it easier for businesses to be able

495
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 9: to come and grow and thrive inside east your society,

496
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 9: but also making sure the workers are not being left

497
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 9: behind in that process, then frankly, then the politics and

498
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 9: the people will leave you behind. And so that is

499
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 9: the type of leadership that I know we are looking

500
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 9: for because I know that even in the times of

501
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 9: the greatest challenges in our country's history, only two things

502
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 9: of Goddess through It's God's grace and moral leadership. And

503
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 9: so we're going to pray for God's grace, but we

504
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 9: got to be ready to stand up and provide morel.

505
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 10: Leadership as well.

506
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 8: Before we let you go.

507
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned people are hungry for action, They're

508
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: hungry for change, They're hungry to see their lawmakers actually

509
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 2: do something. And that's partially why we think we've seen this,

510
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: this rise of self identified democratic socialist winning in places

511
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: like here in New York and in Colorado. I'm wondering

512
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: if that presents a liability for Democrats going into the fall,

513
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: or if you think there's room in the tent for

514
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: people who identify in that way under the Democratic Party.

515
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 9: I think that the thing that we should be focusing

516
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 9: on is not, you know, not identifying who should not

517
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 9: be part of a conversation. It's about how are you

518
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 9: delivering results so people will choose you regardless of who

519
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 9: is in the conversation.

520
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 4: Uh.

521
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 9: You know, when when I when I looked at you know,

522
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 9: what happened in the state of Maryland. You know, we

523
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 9: had candidates from a wide variety of platforms and policy positions.

524
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 9: But frankly, the reason that we were so wildly successful

525
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 9: with our leave No One Behind slate is because these

526
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 9: were these were these were actions. Uh, there's results that

527
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 9: people were looking for, and they wanted to see the conda,

528
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 9: the status quo disrupted, and I think that's what we

529
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 9: were able to provide.

530
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right

531
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: after this, we want to bring our view down to

532
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 2: earth eastward. Just a few blocks from where we are

533
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: here Madison Square Garden, where Taylor Swift and Travis Kelcey

534
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: tied the knot last night. Streets were closed, paparazzi were out,

535
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: and hundreds of NYPD not you didn't.

536
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 8: Go, absolutely catch it not no No.

537
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 5: Forbes puts the cost of this two day affair at

538
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 5: more than twenty million dollars, incredible amount of money. Britney

539
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 5: Spanis joins us now. She's a journalist who covers pop music,

540
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 5: and Brittany also teaches at NYU, where one of the

541
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 5: courses she's offered is on one Taylor Swift, pretty good

542
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 5: to have you with us. I think when I first

543
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 5: heard about this, I thought, no way, this is happening.

544
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 5: She has untold amount of money, She has a very

545
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 5: interesting relation with ship with privacy, which we can talk about,

546
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 5: and this was like a huge lead. This was a spectacle.

547
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 5: I thought, what did you make of it?

548
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 11: Yeah, I thought it was a decoy. I thought that

549
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 11: she was going to do it. I mean, she has

550
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 11: so many properties, as she multi billionaire does, and so

551
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 11: I was like, maybe I'll be in Kansas City, Rhode Island,

552
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 11: in Nashville, Pennsylvania. I was like, there's so many options.

553
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,479
Speaker 11: But this was a big surprise. But also I think

554
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 11: it's a This is a very new type of relationship

555
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 11: for Taylor, where it is very public facing. They go

556
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 11: to events together, they do the very celebrity couple things,

557
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 11: which she really hasn't ever done with any of her

558
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 11: past partners. It's always kind of been a little bit

559
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 11: behind the scenes. So it makes sense that this is

560
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 11: a couple that celebrates with.

561
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 5: Her husband at the Cavaliers now husband at the Cavaliers

562
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 5: game until the Hims sisters, I guess reupped him one

563
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 5: up to me.

564
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: All right, as we're talking about America, we're talking about

565
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: the Declaration of Independence. We don't have a monarchy here,

566
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: we don't have royal weddings here.

567
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 8: Is that why we care about this?

568
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: And I'm using wee loosely, but like, why do we

569
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: seem to care so much about this?

570
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 11: I mean, what we've seen with Taylor Swift as a

571
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 11: celebrity in the last few years is specifically with Ara's tour,

572
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 11: which is around the time that her and Travis met.

573
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 11: Travis being a man with multiple super Bowl rings like

574
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 11: this is and Travis were of first name based Travis

575
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 11: tras Travis Travis the you know, they have the sort

576
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 11: of the pillars of celebrity culture in America. Right It's

577
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 11: a football star, pop star, two very well known figures

578
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 11: in their fields, and you know, it's sort of the

579
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 11: the ultimate type of coming together of an IT couple.

580
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 11: You know, they are very celebrated, very talented, and also

581
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 11: just a well known globally.

582
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, two different but very big fan groups kind of.

583
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 11: And so it's it's really incredible, you know, it's been

584
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 11: so interesting to see how that's developed in terms of

585
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 11: Taylor kind of reaching this pinnacle in her own career.

586
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 11: Travis obviously won a Super Bowl within the first year

587
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,959
Speaker 11: that they were dating. It's kind of the very prom

588
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 11: king and queen vibe to it, So there is that

589
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 11: royal couple element. But yeah, I think that's why everyone

590
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 11: was interested. That's kind of hard for any of them

591
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 11: to go anywhere anyway, So I guess everyone's going to

592
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 11: crowd around.

593
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 8: M out a large talk of the city. Yeah, exactly.

594
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 5: Let me ask you about the way in which she

595
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 5: kind of cultivates her personality, a perception of her personality

596
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 5: and image, and also relationship to privacy. I mentioned this

597
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 5: just just a moment ago. So we've had these moments

598
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 5: where she spounds a very private person and then you know,

599
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 5: maybe a few months later we have the release of

600
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 5: a self funded documentary or a documentary series on the

601
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 5: Eras tour. How does she regard her privacy, her image,

602
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 5: and how does that compare to kind of other pop

603
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 5: stars of her renown.

604
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 11: You know, I think Taylor tries to find the intersection

605
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 11: of it. She really tries to find the fact that

606
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 11: she is a singer songwriter in the canon of many

607
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 11: singer songwriters before her.

608
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 5: Joni Mitchell, Joni Mitchell.

609
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 11: I mean, you know, she had Paul McCartney, there and

610
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 11: Stevie Nixon. They are both songwriters who do this, which

611
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 11: is being able to pour your personal life into your music.

612
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 11: And so she very much reveals who she is through

613
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 11: her songs, but then kind of lives the life outside

614
00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 11: of it, and so we kind of learn about it

615
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 11: the next album of what she just went through, what

616
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 11: she just experienced. So, you know, I think she doesn't

617
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 11: shy away from the fame of it all. She doesn't

618
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 11: shy away from the fact that she's singing about famous

619
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 11: people she's dated or is friends with, or has feuds with,

620
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 11: or you know, any sort of those experiences. But she

621
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 11: kind of finds that sort of semi happy medium. Obviously, again,

622
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 11: she has a very different kind of celebrity in the

623
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 11: sense that she's super famous, and so you know, she

624
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 11: knows that if she goes to a studio on Eighth

625
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 11: Street in Manhattan, there's gonna be hundreds of people crowding

626
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 11: on Eighth Street to go see her.

627
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: Before you go, I want to ask you about fandom

628
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: in general. It seems like a very American phenomenon. And

629
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if you feel this, but I feel

630
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: like it has this extreme fandom and like nothing Taylor

631
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: Swift ever can do, will ever be bad for some

632
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: of her extreme fans. Do you feel like that's permeated

633
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: other parts of our society, like it's sports fandom and

634
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: even the way people look at politicians or issues. They're

635
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: so immovable now because there's like this this tendency to

636
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: just commit and stay with it right or die, and

637
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: that can maybe not always be a great thing.

638
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, it does feel like such a product

639
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 11: of the Internet age, where I feel like, through social media,

640
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 11: the community of fandom is now very much commodified and

641
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 11: very much exists in a network way versus fandom before

642
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 11: used to be just going to the concerts of meeting

643
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 11: other people or going to a game and meeting other fans. So,

644
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 11: you know, I think it's that kind of experience of

645
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 11: that anonymity of the Internet with the sort of you know,

646
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 11: network that you're building through that that makes the fandom

647
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 11: even more intense, even more kind of parasocial, really passionate

648
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 11: in a way that sometimes moves into kind of a

649
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 11: weird negative way. So I think a lot of that

650
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 11: is just the constant experience of it, the twenty four

651
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 11: to seven experience of being a fan.

652
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: These days, and the fact that you can see her

653
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: go everywhere, right, I mean, yeah, you buy a magazine

654
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: to see like a picture of somebody out on the street.

655
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 11: Yeah, Like you know where she went to dinner every night,

656
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 11: you know what she's wearing every day, you know who

657
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 11: she's hanging out with, you know who her friends are. Like,

658
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 11: we are experiencing in such a high volume in a

659
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 11: way that we've never had experience for many decades.

660
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 5: Very quickly before we let you go, about twenty seconds

661
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 5: here you teach a course on Taylor Swift is or

662
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 5: anyone else in this pantheon. You could teach a course

663
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 5: like this on at this moment.

664
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 11: Oh gosh, I mean there's so many. I mean, I

665
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 11: feel like there's so many great pop stars who are

666
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 11: super big right now. I mean there are other classes

667
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 11: on Beyonce and Bad Bunny and so I feel like

668
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 11: those are obviously the most obvious answers. But yeah, I

669
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 11: think there's so many great popstars who've been able to

670
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 11: make long careers who are very much worth studying.

671
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 5: Pretty great to see you, Thank you very much, Britty

672
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 5: Spanish showing us here on the Intrepid as we do

673
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 5: our broadcast here on the fourth of July two and fifteen.

674
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 8: Aniversity of the US and let us know if you

675
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 8: expand that syllabus.

676
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend.

677
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 4: Right after this, welcome back.

678
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 5: To Bloomberg this weekend. From the Intrepid Museum on the

679
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 5: Hudson River here in New York, We're gonna head back

680
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 5: to Coney Island, where Lisa Matteo is there. I know

681
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 5: a big event later this morning. Lisa. Before we get

682
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 5: into the event that I'm alluding to, this hot dog

683
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 5: eating competition, just give us a bit of history of

684
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 5: Coney Island. It's a place that I go to walk

685
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 5: and swim from time to time. Share a little history

686
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 5: of the place before we get into the contest itself.

687
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, you got it, guys. And it's best to send

688
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 4: the Brooklyn Girl to Coney Island bringing back so many

689
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: memories here. But this is a place of three hundred

690
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: and fifty business, it's fifty thousand residents. But the history

691
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 4: here goes so deep. The boardwalk first open in nineteen

692
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: twenty three, at it has survived the Great Recession, the

693
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 4: Great Depression, It has survived it all with so many

694
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: amazing landmarks of course you have, yes, the Brooklyn's Eiffel Towers.

695
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 4: A lot of people around here call it. That's the

696
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 4: parachute Jump. It has closed, you know, been closed in

697
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 4: the nineteen sixties, but it is a staple and a

698
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 4: landmark out here. The boardwalk is a New York City

699
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 4: official landmark. There is the Cyclone, which I've written so

700
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: many times I can't even tell you. The Wonder Wheel too.

701
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 4: On top of it. But on top of it also

702
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 4: are the businesses, the rest the people, and that's what

703
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: a lot of people talk about here. Got to also

704
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 4: tell you about the Amphitheater as well. The competition, of course,

705
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: for the hot dog eating contest. We'll get to that

706
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 4: a little bit later. But you can see the stage

707
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: kind of setting itself for the Fourth of July because

708
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 4: every Friday they host fireworks here at night, the Coney

709
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 4: Island Alliance does, and then on the fourth of July

710
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 4: they're actually hosting extra fireworks today, so more for people

711
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 4: to enjoy.

712
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: All Right, Lisa, I'm gonna have to have you take

713
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 2: me out to Coney Island because I've never been on

714
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: the list.

715
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 8: I really want to go.

716
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: She seems like the expert you don't do our weekend adventures,

717
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: but Lisa and I went to a spa and a

718
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: coal plunge without you, So our next weekend adventure will

719
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: be Coney Island. We do, of course, have to talk

720
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: about the hot dogs. As you can see or maybe

721
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: not see, We've got all of them in front of us.

722
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: We're about to go through them. But what is how

723
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: did this start? This hot dog eating contest of worldwide

724
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: renown that you are about to bear witness.

725
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 8: To it has?

726
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 4: I mean, Nathan's is just a staple here. It's been

727
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 4: here for more than one hundred years. It started from

728
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 4: a Polish immigrant by the name of Nathan who opened

729
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 4: up a hot dog cart for hot dogs that were

730
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 4: a nickel, yes, five cents. Of course, surprise has gone

731
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 4: up since then, but it's just a part of the

732
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 4: area here. People started coming here in nineteen seventy two.

733
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 4: They held the first hot dog eating contest. That was

734
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy two. The winner actually ate about fourteen

735
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 4: hot dogs. Just to give you an idea of how

736
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 4: this has grown since then. The men's eating contest record

737
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 4: they have to eat how many hot dogs they can

738
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 4: in ten minutes. The record for the men's is seventy six.

739
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 4: The record for the women's is fifty one, so that

740
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 4: kicks off later on here for today, but it's just

741
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 4: become people coming from all over the world. I want

742
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 4: to point out for those of you watching on TV.

743
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 4: Behind me over my shoulder here there's a family who

744
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 4: came all the way from Wisconsin. He brought us three daughters.

745
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 4: They're all wearing hot dog hats and they told their dad,

746
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 4: you know what, this has been something you watch every year.

747
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 4: We're gonna drive down. They drove fifteen hours to get

748
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 4: here to just watch this contest and bring their dad

749
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 4: so we can experience it live. There's another guy in

750
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 4: front of them who is from Scotland. Came all the

751
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 4: way from Scotland here, not for the World Cups, he

752
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 4: came here for this contest. So it just goes to

753
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: show you how many people come out here for this guys.

754
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 4: But I got, you know, my whole plate here of

755
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 4: hot dogs.

756
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 8: Let me bring it up for you.

757
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 4: Here we go, so I don't think I can eat

758
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 4: this many. But just to give you a little flavor

759
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 4: for the contest, Lisa.

760
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: I know that you are our resident protein expert, but

761
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: I would like to encourage you not to try to

762
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: eat You said seventy six was the men fifty something

763
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: for the one.

764
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 8: Please don't do that.

765
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: I know I think you probably could if you wanted to,

766
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: But I'm begging you, O, please don't do that.

767
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 8: All right? Thank you, Lisa hanging there. Maybe feed the crew,

768
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 8: all right?

769
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: This is a holiday that does usually involve some form

770
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: of grilling, and but we don't have a grill out

771
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: here with us.

772
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 8: We do have hot dog There are.

773
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 5: A lot you're a rate on the table, and we

774
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 5: have somebody with an awful lot about hot dogs with

775
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 5: Kathleen Squire. She's a food writer for Wirecut at the

776
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 5: New York Times. She has tested you yourself with a

777
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 5: team thirty one different hot dogs, all beef, and rated them.

778
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 5: We're going to get into sort of the hierarchy of

779
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 5: all of this, but let me ask you first about

780
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 5: the snap. How much does the snap of a hot

781
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 5: dog matter?

782
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 12: The snap of the hot dog is the number one

783
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 12: thing that matters, That nice like texture when you bite

784
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 12: into it and it snaps. That's what hot dogs should

785
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 12: be all about.

786
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: So which of the ones that you rated was that

787
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: the number one qualifier? What were the categories you used

788
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 2: to rate the different hot dogs.

789
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 12: Texture, the snap was a category. The flavor of course,

790
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 12: the balance of the spicing, and you know, appearance, how

791
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 12: it sat in the bun, how it mingled with condiments.

792
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 8: How it mingled.

793
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 5: So we have them right here, the Sabret, yes, which

794
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 5: we see around New York City. If you walk around

795
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 5: and see hot dog carts often they are serving. Walk

796
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 5: us through why that is the the hot dog of

797
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 5: excellence here?

798
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 8: That was the winner, right, yes?

799
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, Subrette is a New York classic. You'll see the

800
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 12: blue and yellow umbrellas all over town. And we thought

801
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 12: it had the best snap, the best balance of flavor.

802
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 12: It's very New York it also it kind of tastes

803
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 12: like a PISTROMI okay, yeah.

804
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 8: And price wise, is it high low in the middle?

805
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 12: It's in the middle, I think though in town it's

806
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 12: it's quite reasonable. But if you try to get them,

807
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 12: if you live on the West coast, let's say they're

808
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 12: a little more pricey, like an important.

809
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly, you're paying for the ship and important.

810
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 5: Walk us through the tasting process. So I joke, have

811
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 5: you tasted all thirty one?

812
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 8: Do you ever want to look at a hot dog.

813
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 8: Ever again, I'm sitting here right now. Hot dogs have

814
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 8: to have a bit of a hiatus.

815
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 12: I think, I think maybe we'll take a little break

816
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 12: after the holiday, but it's July.

817
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 5: Foot pull back the curtain for us, the wirecutter curtain.

818
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 5: How does this process work when you when you're testing

819
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 5: a product like this one? What goes into that and

820
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 5: sort of what does your team look like and what

821
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 5: are they doing?

822
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 12: Okay, so there were eight taste testers on our panel.

823
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 12: We came from all over the US, Indiana, California, Texas,

824
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 12: New York.

825
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 5: Were broad geographic diversity.

826
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 8: Yes exactly.

827
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 12: We do blind tastings, so we really don't know which

828
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 12: hot dog we're tasting as we taste them and making

829
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 12: our notes. And so we started by tasting the dogs

830
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 12: in their purest form, just kind of boiled cut up

831
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 12: into pieces, no bun, no bun, no condiments, And then

832
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 12: we narrow down to eleven finalists, which we put in

833
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 12: a bun, used our toppings of choice, but we had

834
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 12: to be consistent with those, and then we judged the

835
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 12: how they sat in the bun and again how they

836
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 12: mingled with the condiments, and we came up with our

837
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 12: five picks.

838
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 5: Imagine your Chicago based tester had some opinions on.

839
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: What this is very contentious what you are allowed to

840
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 2: put on a hot dog? Absolutely, you guys are Also

841
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 2: did you rated regional hot dog toppings? You did a

842
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: bracket of eight styles, Yes, and Seattle one by a

843
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: two to one topic. I have no idea what a

844
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: Seattle hot dog topping really threw us for a loop.

845
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 12: The Seattle dogs are so delicious. They are split their butterflied,

846
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 12: so when you put the toppings on, they really kind

847
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 12: of soak them up and get in there. There's cream

848
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 12: cheese in the bun, which is a shocker. Yes, they

849
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 12: spread the bun with cream cheese, but again it's delicious.

850
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 12: It kind of all comes together and there's helapenos involve

851
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 12: which give it a beautiful, nice crunch. Some onions.

852
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,959
Speaker 8: It's a great dog. Where can one obtain a Seattle dog?

853
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 8: And I gotta go to Seattle for Seattle?

854
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 5: I guess the one that I see missing here is

855
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 5: the Vienna Beef hot dog. This is a Chicago, tried

856
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 5: and true Chicago brand of hot dog. Can I get

857
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 5: them in New York? And why are they on your

858
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 5: list of hearts I've got down.

859
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 12: You can't get them in your local grocery store, but

860
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 12: you can order them online like through gold Belly, or

861
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 12: there's other places that can ship them to you.

862
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 8: Why is this such a quintessential American food?

863
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 12: Hot dogs are so American because think about their history.

864
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 12: They came here via immigrants, like in the mid nineteenth century,

865
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 12: and then because Americans are such individualists, we all across

866
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 12: the nation put our own spins on them, and that's

867
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 12: where the toppings come in. And kind of the discussion

868
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 12: of toppings, it's blanks, like, yeah.

869
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 5: Thirty seconds left here, How do you prepare yours? Boiled? Grilled?

870
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 5: And what do you put on your dog? No ketchup? No,

871
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 5: no ketchup for me.

872
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 12: I'm a mustard only gal. I grill them. I love grilling,

873
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 12: so I love the smoke that the grill im parts.

874
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 8: In a hot dog.

875
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 5: You were saying before you did all beef. But there's

876
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 5: many people. There's infinite varieties of hot dogs.

877
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 12: Infinite varieties. There's turkey hot dogs, there's pork hot dogs.

878
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 12: There's pork blend, pork chicken blends. There's there's vegan hot

879
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 12: dogs out there.

880
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 8: I say, at the risk of getting canceled. I do

881
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 8: like the Tofu hot dogs. They're pretty tasty.

882
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Speaker 5: Well, cancel you here?

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Speaker 8: Oh, getting cards from some of our producers.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, what have you back? We'll have you back around two.

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Speaker 5: We'll do the turkey dogs next.

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Speaker 8: Maybe all right, fair right, fair enough?

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Speaker 5: Thank you. Kathleen Squires of Wirecutter join us here on

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00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 5: set on the Intrepid app.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg This Weekend podcast.

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00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,520
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00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,240
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00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,880
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