WEBVTT - Make space for friendship, with Anna Goldfarb 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:09.240 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning, 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:15.800 This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.000 episode will be a longer one part of my series 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.080 where I interview fascinating people about how they manage their 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.840 time and how all of us can take our days 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.319 from great to awesome. So I am so excited to 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.519 welcome Anna Goldfarm to Before Breakfast today. Anna is the 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.080 author of the book Modern Friendship, on how to nurture 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.680 our most valued connections. So Anna, welcome to the show. 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:42.800 Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.280 Well, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:46.800 about you. 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:52.880 Yeah, I'm a journalist and I've reported on friendships, relationships, 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:58.560 and pop psychology for nearly a decade. I've really gotten 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:00.600 to dig deep with friendship, but mostly for The New 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:05.840 York Times. So from my reporting, I wanted something more 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.800 comprehensive to describe the strange waters that we're swimming in, 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.240 Like I really wanted to capture in a much deeper 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.400 way than an article of Guys, here's what's going on. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.160 I want to orient everyone like, Okay, this is the 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.240 game we're playing. It is very different rules than any 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:29.600 other time before in history. So here you go. Here's 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:30.080 what's up. 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.959 So are I mean, are we imaginating are people feeling 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.160 more isolated or lonely than in the past, And what's 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.720 going on? What has changed with friendship to make that happen. 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.360 Yeah, Well, we have a lot of sociological factors that 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.360 do not work in our favor. We live in a 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:51.320 society where we're more butterflies. We have unlimited choice on 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.840 who we can befriend and who we can associate with. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.840 But also it's easier to shed those connections because we 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.800 don't stay in one place for too long. And you know, 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.480 our grandparents, their social lives were more like an oak 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.679 tree with deep roots where they stayed put and they 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.520 knew their communities. They didn't have as much choice of food. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.040 Of a friend, they usually had to be someone that 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.840 look that came from their economic background, looked like them. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.440 So it's just pros and cons. It's not saying like 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.800 it was better back then, and it's you know, and 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.480 it's not comparing. It's just different, different pros and cons. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.040 And I know people sense that things are different. They 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.720 probably sense that it's so much harder to keep friendships 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.840 going than when they were younger, and it's not their imagination. 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.919 They have a collection of friends they've made from different 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.120 parts of their life, but they only share common history 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:49.600 with us, not with each other. 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.560 So it's harder to have sort of a group of friends, yeah, 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.200 because you sort of are the middle of a spoke 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.400 of a wheel. You're the hub of the wheel on 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.560 their spokes. I think I've seen you use analogically, and. 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.840 You know, it's just a lot harder to bring different 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:06.840 different people in your life. Two of my best friends 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.280 didn't even know each other until my book release party. 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.480 So my advice, release a book, have a party that 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:13.720 everyone can finally meet. 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.440 Bring everyone. It's like a wedding or something. Right like 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.959 the wedding, you realize, like all these people they know you, 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:21.760 but they don't know everyone else. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.079 Yeah, so it's. 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.640 A it's a little strange to think about it that way, 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.400 but you you know, you focus on sort of the 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:34.160 practicalities of how you can build relationships. And as we 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.080 were talking before, you just mentioned something we always like 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.520 to talk about routines on this show. And you have 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.360 now have a morning routine of talking to your sister, 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.240 which obviously family members can be friends. I wonder if 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.520 you could talk a little bit about how that routine 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.280 came to be and how that has been important in 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:51.680 your life. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.200 Yeah. I you know, I don't think my sister will 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.000 mind me sharing this because I've talked about this before, 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.160 and also it's true, so it stry to argue with 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.800 the truth. But my sister and I really had trouble 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:12.600 finding common ground for a long time. You know, she 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:18.000 got married and then started having children. I got married 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.000 and decided that I was not going to have children, 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:24.000 and we just really had to disconnect over just our lives, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.920 like our different roles that were choosing, and if we 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.640 could find common ground with that. I started reporting on 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:36.640 friendships around twenty seventeen for the New York Times, and 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.120 in the course of my reporting, I met this woman, 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.760 Shasta Nelson, who's an incredible friendship expert. She's an OG, 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.160 she's brilliant, the real deal. And what I learned from 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:54.800 Shasta's work is that friendships require three things positivity, consistency, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:05:00.680 and vulnerability. So I started applying that to my relationship 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.560 with my sister, where you know, it was rocky, and 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.120 the first thing I did was consistency of she know, 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.760 she has these small children, So I said, why don't 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.000 I come over every weekend and I come help with 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.640 your kids? So I had the consistency I'm coming over 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.919 every Saturday. Then I worked on positivity of you know, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.799 I saw this slip glass. I thought I'd be pretty 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.120 for you. I thought this would be a good shade 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.400 for you. Here I bought you like a little some 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:29.800 cookies at the market, like just little treats. And that 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.200 led to vulnerability of what's going on with you? Like, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.760 what's really going on with your your you know, what 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.880 are you struggling with? How can I help? And those 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:45.360 three things, paying attention to them completely completely transformed our 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:49.799 relationship and part of the I've maintained the consistency every weekend, 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.640 I still go over, and she started calling me every 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.839 morning after dropping the kids off to school, when she's 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.600 driving home, she'll call me. So we've created our own 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.840 routine means, but you had to lay the I had 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.520 to lay the groundwork for those routines to stick. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.320 Yeah, because friendship, it turns out, takes work and it 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.360 takes time, and of course that is something that many 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.200 people struggle with a lot. And so let's talk about 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:19.680 that a little. I mean a lot of people say 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.640 like I want more friends, or I want a better 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.360 social life or something like that, but that's kind of 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.679 a vague hope. I mean, what what are people getting 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.159 at when they say that. 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.600 Well, studies show that people think they'd be happier with 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.760 more friends, But what actually makes us happier is being 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.800 considered someone's best friend. And that's because that's a when 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.120 someone identifies us and it says, oh my gosh, she's 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.640 my best friend, it reinforces our you know, that someone 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.360 judges our good character and our sees our integrity and 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.840 sees our inner beauty, and that gives us the self 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.680 esteem and confidence that we think having more friends would 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.000 give us. Yes, I mean our phones are full of 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.239 names of people that we love, but it doesn't feel 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.400 that amazing, like as amazing as you think it would feel. 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.680 You know, our social media. You open it up, Oh, 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.240 here's all my friends, and it doesn't really feel like anything. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.880 It kind of just feel, if anything, it feels negative 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.840 of well, look what they're doing and I'm not included. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.800 Why wasn't I included? All they're all on a trip. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:24.960 I haven't been on the trip. It's just like it's 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:31.280 none of it makes feel that good. So what a 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:36.960 better strategy is to be a dynamic teammate, a dynamite 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:41.400 team meat to three to five people, Like, go back 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.720 to basics. Really, you know, when you think about when 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.360 you were happiest with your friendships, it might have been 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:48.680 high school or college where you just had a few 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.200 friends and you just focused on them and that was enough. 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.200 You know, you weren't trying to keep all these plates 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.640 in the air of every old coworker and old roommate 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.800 and childhood best friend. Like you weren't trying to keep 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.440 all these plates spinning. So go back to basics. Pick 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.000 a few people and be wonderful to them. Excellent. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:10.880 Well, we're going to take a short break and then 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:21.240 be back with Anna Goldfarb talking more things friendship. Well, 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.720 I am back. This is one of the longer episodes 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.760 of Before Breakfast. I am talking with Anna Goldfarb, who 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:31.320 is a friendship expert author of the book Modern Friendship. So, Anna, 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.200 one of the things you've said that I've found so 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.040 interesting is you know, you're like, I want more friends, 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:38.959 but what you actually want is more people to do 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.920 X with. Like that friendship start out at least based 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.760 on shared activities. Can you talk a little bit about that. 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.000 Yeah, it's a huge misconception about friendship that it should 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:56.320 just go on forever because because there's affection there, people 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.240 should just make time in their schedule because you've known 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.720 each other so long, there's such great affection for one another. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:06.480 But that's not actually how humans work. Humans work, And 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.120 I learned this theory something called choice theory, developed by 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.000 doctor William Glasser in the nineteen sixties, and choice theory 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:19.760 says that we all have five inherent genetic needs and 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:26.200 their survival, power, love and belonging, freedom, which is like 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.959 self expression, and fun. Those are the reasons we do everything. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:36.160 So when you think about your friendships, and if it's 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.440 not particular, if it's not helping your survival, you know, 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.600 in a real way, if it's not helping your power 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.480 in a real way, if there's not really love and belonging, 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:51.280 you're not in any groups together. You know, you're married, 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:56.600 you get love from other people more primarily more freedom. 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.760 If you don't really do anything creative or you feel 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:03.120 like you're yourself, that could be attending a pride parade, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.719 It could be really any kind of self expression and 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.200 five fun. If it's not fun, not going to be 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.880 time to do it. So when you look at friendships 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.440 through that lens, it can help explain why you pull 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.160 away from friendships but gravitate towards others because friendships that 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.560 help us with those needs were more likely to make 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:22.920 time for. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.400 And so maybe you're looking for a friend to run 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.360 with or a friend to go to the movies with, 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.600 and so you kind of need to filter through the 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:36.000 people that are in your life with a focus on that. 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.040 Yeah, or power is your job. Like a lot of friends. 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.240 If you're not in the same industry, that can be challenging. 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.120 It's like, well, what else do we have that you 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:50.120 can help me with? As I get older, I've been creating. 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.680 I've been creating more friendships and seeking out more friendships 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:57.079 with other journalists and authors because they get the challenges 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:58.920 of the industry and then we can it's easier to 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.280 form a friendship with peopleeople who care about the things 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:06.080 that you care about. And with meeting you know, we 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.080 have our spouse, that's a lot of our love and 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:12.480 belonging in time, so friends just take on a different sheet, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.280 like it's an own brain. They can I go like 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.120 one shade to the other. As you become more things, 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:24.679 the more people friends just just have to have to transform. 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.720 Well, let's talk about issuing invitations that are more likely 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.000 to get a yes because you have some guidelines. I 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:34.400 think a lot of people are just like, let's get 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.439 together sometime, and that's that's a terrible invitation. So what 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.280 mistakes are people making and how can we do this 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.120 invitation these invitations better. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.120 The biggest mistake I see is that people spend zero 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:51.240 thought on how their invitation lands in someone else's phone 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.760 or inbox. They just rattle off low effort like hey 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:57.520 we should hang out, Hey I miss you, I want 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.440 to see you. But that creates a lot of work 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.760 on the part of the recipient of well, when what 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.559 are we doing? Where are we getting together? And then 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.520 it's like oh, then the grooms come out. It's like, oh, no, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.120 I got you drop this bomb on my lap of 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.560 you want to see me. I don't know why you 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.280 want to see me, you know, I got to figure 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.400 out the details. It just creates a lot of work, 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.679 a lot of mental work that you that you may 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:28.240 not have intended for the recipient to do. It was 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.520 more just hey, we should get together, and it's like, 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.840 what do you mean get together? Why? So what we 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.480 can do is frontloader invitations with the why so the 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.959 other person can better determine if this is a good 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.840 use of their time, and what that looks like is 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.000 you know, I'll take an example from my own life. 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.200 I recently reached out to a woman who works in 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.680 media in my neighborhood and I was like, oh my gosh, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.360 you live in Philly. I live in Philly. We're both 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.720 in media. Let's get together. That was the why of 0:12:58.000 --> 0:12:59.480 this is what I want to see you. We have 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.400 the same industry. And we got together for a happy 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.200 hour and I asked her what are some of her 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.960 pain points living in Philly and she said, well, most 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.880 of my friends have moved away and it's been really 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.800 hard the past year. Like my best friend moved, they 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.640 all moved over the world. And I was like, you 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.520 know what, I think you'd really like my two other friends. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.800 So I went to my two other friends and said, hey, 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.920 I met this great woman. Let's all have a happy hour. 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.400 I want you all to meet. I think you guys 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:32.319 would really hit it off. I'm giving reasons as I'm 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.080 telling the story, I'm peppering reasons for everything I'm doing. 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.400 So the new friend, I invited her these women I 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.840 think you'd hit it off with there in media would 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.200 be a cool hang and that reason was enough for 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.440 her to say yes. And then to my two friends, 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.640 they're like, oh, she sounds cool, I'd love to meet her. 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.760 So we all went out for a happy hour and 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.840 it was amazing. We had a great time, and we're like, 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.400 let's do this regularly. Let's start it monthly hangout. So 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.520 every step along the way we had a reason, a 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.680 reason for the initial meeting, a reason to expand the 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.319 circle so she could meet more friends in the neighborhood. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:15.040 And it was a success. So you know, anyone can 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:20.280 do this. I'm not some savant like of savant. I 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.960 just give meaningful reasons that people responded to to make 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.320 them say yes, to have them not flake or bail. 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.320 And usually if people flake or bail, it's because the 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.400 reason wasn't clear, or the reason wasn't compelling to get together. 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:41.200 So's and I've even seen you mention giving specific times 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.400 and locations, like if you were inviting someone for coffee. 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.480 You're not just like I want to talk with you 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.800 about X related to our industry, which again might be 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.520 a good why, but you say, you know I could 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.320 do these three times. There's a cute place here. Does 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:56.880 any of that work for you? 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:57.160 Right? 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.200 Like to make it as easy as possible for people 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:01.000 to say yes, yes, And. 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.640 Also it shows that you understand that this new friend 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.800 has a whole other life and other commitments, and it's 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.520 a sign of respect. It's a subtle sign of respect 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.000 of I respect your time. Here's what I'm asking, here's 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:18.080 the container it's in, and it will make it easier 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.120 for people to say yes, especially if they have children 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.680 or spouses, like they need to know what's the time 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.800 coming when you're asking, I need to plan around it. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.600 So it's like a subtle way. And I really think 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:32.800 I try to be the friend that I would love 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.120 to have. I would find it very respectful if someone 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.840 did that for me, so I just try to return 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.800 the favor. Well. 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.320 I like that last point because there's definitely an element 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.800 there of being of service. And when you talked earlier 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.560 about choosing to be a wonderful friend to the three 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.360 to five people, I mean part of that is being 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.720 helpful and you ask this new friend about her pain 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.560 points in Philly. I think a lot of people don't 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.840 do that naturally, So maybe you can talk about what 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:06.720 that looks like. 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.640 Well, it can really be like what you know. I 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.600 in a clunky way, it's saying like how can I 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.160 help you? But in a more subtle way, it's just 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.080 listening to how how do you find living here? Like? 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.360 Are what are some like anything you've been struggling with. 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.920 I wouldn't be that overt or explicit, but I would 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.320 just listen and feel like, tell me what's going on, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.240 how's your job? How has your social life been? And 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:37.440 just listen for those bids of well I'm struggling at 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:41.200 this area like I'm I'm really having a tough time 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:42.880 here and being like, oh, here's how I can help. 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.400 I would love to help. Does this sound interesting to you? 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.640 And it's really about being an excellent team And it's 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.840 very careful not to dominate and not to say well 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:56.640 here's what you should do. You should meet my friends, 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.240 They're going to be great, come over Thursday. Well it's 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.320 like that's dominie. It's a better strategy to say, hey, 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.040 I really think I can help here. Would you want 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:07.840 to get together with some friends, I can see if 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.240 they're open to it and have them involved in the process. 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.240 I think that's a miscalculation people make is to show 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.199 their love. They're like, I'll do it, I'll solve it, 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.760 i'll take it on, I'll fix it. And people don't 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.720 want that from their friends. It's a pure relationship of equals. 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.320 So to be really mindful of the power dynamics. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.120 I love that image of being a teammate. I mean, 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.440 we all want teammates in life. But one last thing 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.639 about invitations. Obviously sometimes people don't respond. You talk a 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.360 little bit about making silence meaningful. What does that mean? 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.440 This is a trick. This is a trick I learned 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.760 from my freelancing for all these top tier outlets, because 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.280 they don't always get back to you right away, and 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.640 I need to preserve my sanity so I'm not held 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.159 hostage by these silences. And we can apply this to 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.680 our friendships too. And the way it works is if 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.920 you have friends that are exceptionally busy or they're a 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.360 little bit harder to pin down, they don't always get 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.320 back to you. You can say, hey, i'd love to 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.479 see you. Do you want to go to the forty 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.920 showing of Nightmare before Christmas, which is something my friend 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.560 just went to. And if I don't hear from you 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.320 by noon, all of a sudden, you can't go by 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:27.520 saying how you'll interpret the silence. You you're taking power 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.240 and you're giving a kindness to the other person. Of 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.640 I understand you may not have time to get back 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.879 to me. Here's how I'll interpret your non answer, because 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.720 a non answer is an answer, so you're just being 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.960 you know, saying it out loud. Of I will interpret 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.280 your non answer this in this way, and then you 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.280 can say I'll be in touch later next week to 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.440 find lunch plans like you can. It's not going to 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:57.399 be weird. The goal is to reduce resentment and reduce 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.720 these pain points and with certain friends where they can't 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.200 get back to you right away, so keep it moving, 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.159 be flexible, and take control. If I don't hear from you, 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:08.000 I'll assume this. 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:10.840 That sounds good. All right, Well, we're going to take 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:12.560 one more quick ad break and we'll be back with 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:22.760 a little bit more of Anna's personal time management tips. Well, 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.760 I am back talking with Anna Goldfarb about modern friendships 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.760 and ways that busy people can make space in their 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.080 life for friends and do it so efficiently, you know, 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.359 make things work without a whole lot of terrible back 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:42.239 and forth, which can cause many plans to die. But 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.760 let's talk a little bit about your own life. What 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.400 are some of the things that you are doing now 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.359 to make yourself more efficient or productive. 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.880 Well, the main thing is, and my book can help 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.800 walk people through this, is picking your elite tier of people. 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.320 I cannot be the same level a friend to everyone 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.560 I've ever met in my life. It really is picking 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.760 a handful of people. I call it your Jacuzi tier, 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:20.960 your Dacuzi friends, and commit to prioritizing these people, being 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.879 in contact with these people and seeing them regularly a 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.800 few times a month, and from there, once I knew 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.359 sort of who's on the shopping list, to put it 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.960 in a sort of crude way, it makes things so 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.560 much easier. Like other connections are a bonus and they're 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.919 and I know how to regard them. But it's not 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.280 as overwhelming of how am I going to juggle all 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.639 of my responsibilities and obligations. It's like I have a plan, 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.480 I have a strategy. These are the people and I've 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.159 told them you're my Jacuzi friend. Here's what this means. 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.159 It means if you text me or call me, I 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.280 will do everything I can to reply or write back 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.720 as soon as I can. It means we can celebrate 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:11.200 birthdays together. Means we can celebrate the holidays together. Means 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:17.200 we can have our own rituals. And that's simplified things 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:22.119 because I know where to put my efforts. I highly 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:26.240 encourage everyone to really sit down and make a list 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:28.679 or if you need a little help, my book can 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.159 help you of who are these people to you? And 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.320 are these good choices? That's something you don't hear a 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.120 lot when it comes to friendship, like, am I making 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.720 good choices? Am I picking good people? So my book 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:46.240 can help you evaluate, evaluate the kinds of people you're 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.960 picking and making sure that they're appropriate for that level. 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.880 Excellent? And what's something you have done recently to take 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.080 a day from great to awesome? 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.520 Oh my gosh, Well I have this actually, me and 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.480 one of my best friends. We call it a Terrific 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.040 Lady Day. And that's sort of where you can steal 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.560 away for a few hours and buy a new random lipstick, 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.800 get like that kale lemonade from a hip city of 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.479 veg and just live a great life and kind of 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:19.360 you know, bop around. I need a terrific lady bees. 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:22.320 And it doesn't even need to be like this flashy thing, 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.000 just a few little old treat a little I'm just 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.240 on my own. I'm not gonna, you know, worry about 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.159 anyone else, and it's gonna keep my eyes on my 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.320 own paper and just do what I want to do 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:40.480 and listen terrific lady ds. Embrace it. When you're having 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:42.840 like a crummy week, just be like, you know, I 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.960 need a terrific lady day. I need to go, you know, 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:48.560