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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to step

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Speaker 1: I ever told your protection of I heart radio and

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Speaker 1: uh I are continuing, I guess my continuing crusade to

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Speaker 1: just bring horror content way too early. I have another

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Speaker 1: classic that I wanted to bring it, Let's do It

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Speaker 1: on Screen Queens, which was a very fun one. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of recent, but I wanted to to bring it

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Speaker 1: back because, um, I think, as I mentioned in a

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Speaker 1: recent episode, I've been really curious about the rise of

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Speaker 1: elevated horror and especially like me too in movies. So

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Speaker 1: we are going to do an episode on that. But

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Speaker 1: it's something I've just been ruminating on. And then, as

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Speaker 1: everyone's probably seen, uh Nev Campbell or recently said she's

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Speaker 1: not gonna come back for the next screen because the

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Speaker 1: offer she got was not what they would give a

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Speaker 1: man and they didn't negotiate, So she's not gonna come back.

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Speaker 1: My phone, of course it was I Love Scream. So

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Speaker 1: I keep getting updates about this. I swear every day

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Speaker 1: I get another story about it. You need to know,

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Speaker 1: we need to know well. And I'm hardened to see

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Speaker 1: several of cast members, both past and president, have come

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Speaker 1: out in support of her, have said like, this is

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Speaker 1: really bad and how could you let this happen? But

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Speaker 1: it does. You know, I want her character Sidney Prescott.

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Speaker 1: I even said I want her to go live happily

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Speaker 1: ever after, Like I'm happy for that. I'm not happy

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Speaker 1: it happened this way, right, and especially because they already

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Speaker 1: had a story written for her and now I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna burn with curiosity. I don't understand why these movie

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Speaker 1: makers and creators do not understand the need for the

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Speaker 1: main protagonist in a in a movie, especially if you

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Speaker 1: kept them alive at the end of the last one,

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Speaker 1: like you're trying to be unlike the others where they

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Speaker 1: kill off ill which those because hey, you're trying to

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Speaker 1: bring in a new group of people, or be because

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Speaker 1: you don't want to pay for them. I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: I don't either. I don't either. So we'll see what happens,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure we'll we'll have more to say about

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Speaker 1: this in the future. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: this one back a little bit early for the season,

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Speaker 1: but you know, but you know what. Speaking of Jenna Ortega,

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Speaker 1: have you seen the previews for her Wednesday show? I

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Speaker 1: haven't actually, but I got to notice about it today

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Speaker 1: and it was like WHOA, Yeah, I was gonna like

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Speaker 1: what And I'm like, look at her going from screen

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Speaker 1: queen to being this amazing character, fearsome character, wonderful. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm all about it. I love her, so yes, UM,

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Speaker 1: I guess maybe we could come it. I would love

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Speaker 1: to talk about that. Took so many ideas, so many ideas.

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Speaker 1: But in the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff I've

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Speaker 1: never told you protection of I Heart Radio. Before we start,

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Speaker 1: just a quick content warning for this one, because we

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Speaker 1: are talking about slashers, so there's some sort of violence

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Speaker 1: and gruesome stuff. We're talking about, some Harvey Wine scene stuff,

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Speaker 1: so some sexual abuse and assaults, some stuff with um

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Speaker 1: just not great treatment of women. Also some sluch shaming

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Speaker 1: victim blaming stuff because again slashers and horror movies. But

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Speaker 1: all right, let's get into it today. UM. We want

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Speaker 1: to thank a listener who sent in a bunch of

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Speaker 1: recent suggestions for our ongoing Halloween slash spooky content, Jessica.

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Speaker 1: So thank you Jessica for suggesting we look into scream queens, yes,

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Speaker 1: which has been very, very fun. There are surprisingly a

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Speaker 1: lot of definitions around scream queens and some confusion about

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Speaker 1: what they were. I will say, for me, I thought

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Speaker 1: a scream queen was basically a final girl, but iconic,

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Speaker 1: like in multiple movies, has reached sort of legendary status.

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Speaker 1: That's what I thought the screen queen was. My idea

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Speaker 1: of screen queen was literally those who screamed really well,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I may have been two on the

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Speaker 1: nose because in my mind I have a picture of

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Speaker 1: Sarah Michelle Geller. I think from I know what you

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Speaker 1: did last summer, where's that scream where it's like the

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Speaker 1: horrid face? But is that shrill, perfect scream? And I

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Speaker 1: feel like maybe because I've watched Supernatural way too many times,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there's often someone's scream like I would

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Speaker 1: compare who could do it well? And because I do

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Speaker 1: that scream that high, like real like terrified scream, so

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Speaker 1: I thought it was someone who could master that and

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Speaker 1: would be known for that had a complete different take.

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Speaker 1: I think together we're kind of correct. We're still we're

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Speaker 1: missing some pieces of it. Together, that's that's pretty much

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Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah, I will say, as an actor,

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Speaker 1: I actually have trouble screaming. And it's not to do

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Speaker 1: with I can't do it, but it's just the ingrained

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Speaker 1: nature of being quiet and not bothering people is so

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Speaker 1: damned strong that I have trouble screaming, and it actually

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Speaker 1: concerns me how difficult I find it to let go

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Speaker 1: and do. Maybe that's fine, but I think that the

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Speaker 1: reason behind it is not good. Well, I think about

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Speaker 1: when we go on roller coasters and how different people

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Speaker 1: do it, and there's not a truly scream. I usually

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Speaker 1: just curse the entire time in panic. That's my scream.

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Speaker 1: Or I also laugh cry. I've discovered that that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I usually like cheer or or just

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Speaker 1: in silent anyway. So that's what we thought it was.

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Speaker 1: We're also going to we're gonna go or some definition,

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Speaker 1: some history, some evolution, and then we're gonna look at

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Speaker 1: some examples, both modern and more classic. Yeah, examples, And

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Speaker 1: I'm also going to put this disclaimer here. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure miss Annie here found the perfect excuse to talk

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Speaker 1: about her theories on the Scream movie trilogy. Now has

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Speaker 1: to become more of those because she doesn't love it.

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Speaker 1: And then I looked at what we were working and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, I see half of this Scream. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I did not intend for that to happen, but it did.

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Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to talk like immediately, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about her. And actually, in the

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Speaker 1: in our recent Dana Scully episode, when I said I

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Speaker 1: had already picked someone out, I had picked her out.

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Speaker 1: But then I was like, no, I want to do Scully.

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Speaker 1: I want to do this Scully effect. But then this

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, I guess I do get to

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Speaker 1: talk about her. After all. Halloween has come early for me. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's quite a bit of discussion about Scream. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to get to it. But before we do, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about some of these definitions floating around. For screen queen,

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Speaker 1: Cambridge Dictionary gives this definition a female actor who plays

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Speaker 1: a main character in a horror movie who gets frightened

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Speaker 1: or attacked, or the character she plays. In other definitions,

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Speaker 1: the screen queen refers to a specific, typically iconic character

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Speaker 1: in the horror genre. While there aren't have been many

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Speaker 1: damsel and distress elements to Scream Queen, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: unpack that in a minute um. They are often smart

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Speaker 1: and capable, especially the more modern iterations of them. The

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Rue Morgue magazine, Dave Alexander, said,

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Speaker 1: a scream queen is a female actor in a horror

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Speaker 1: film that is both intelligent, proactive, tough, and overall a survivor,

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Speaker 1: so she's generally the focus of the antagonist rage. I

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Speaker 1: would definitely say that screen queens are one of the

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Speaker 1: strongest troops, one of the more modern ones, and they

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Speaker 1: are absolutely key in defining certain subgenres such as slasher movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good one. So from a wise geek,

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Speaker 1: he says, a screen queen is an actress who does

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Speaker 1: a great deal of work in the horror genre. Screen

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Speaker 1: queens often become closely associated with this genre of film

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Speaker 1: and television, sometimes despite a desire to break out and

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Speaker 1: work in other aspects of the industry. Some examples of

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Speaker 1: notable screen queens include Faye Ray, Scout, Taylor Compton, Sarah

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Speaker 1: Michelle Geller, and Jamie Lee Curtis. Depending on the film

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Speaker 1: and the actress, a screen queen may be a victim

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Speaker 1: or a female protagonist. Whatever type of rosy plays, a

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Speaker 1: screen Queen is classically young and beautiful, though her beauty

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Speaker 1: maybe more quote girl next door than supermodel. Oh I

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Speaker 1: guess you're gonna come up on our slumber party. There's

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Speaker 1: point of of this in there, with an emphasis on

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Speaker 1: the idea that screen Queen could be a real woman. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So I feel like from these definitions, one of the

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Speaker 1: big standouts to me is, I it makes sense now

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Speaker 1: that I read these, but I never thought it was

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Speaker 1: the actor, And I think that's why I got it

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Speaker 1: mixed up with like when I say iconic, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of the ones we've chosen, not all of them,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of them, like we're this, they're known

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Speaker 1: for this one role, right, and so they kind of

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Speaker 1: it gets interchangeable almost of you know, Lauri's Joe, Jamie

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Speaker 1: Lee Curtis. So I always thought of it as more

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Speaker 1: of the fictional character. But I think it does make

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Speaker 1: sense that it's the actor, or like at least it

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Speaker 1: started that way. We're like, oh, she's the screen queen.

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Speaker 1: She can be in all these horror movies and screen

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Speaker 1: really were right, and of course, but the tide that

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Speaker 1: originated from screen Queen, they said one one definition stated

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Speaker 1: without really telling us why But maybe he's tell it

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Speaker 1: the leading lady in very like horrified situations who knows, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sort of a take on that that makes sense. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I am such a nerd, I looked up why

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Speaker 1: do we scream? Very briefly. Recent science suggests that screaming

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Speaker 1: is dual purpose, alerting others and sharpening our awareness. The

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Speaker 1: brain processes screams differently than other sounds. It's like quicker,

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Speaker 1: it goes to the brain more quickly, So it makes

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Speaker 1: sense that these scream queens are screaming. It's actually not.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's usually portrayed as like, oh, look

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Speaker 1: how dumb she is or how helpless she is. But

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Speaker 1: screaming is a death surface purpose and it is useful.

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Speaker 1: There are damsel and distress elements we're going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: But I just found that interesting. I was also trying

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Speaker 1: to get into, like because there's a certain range that

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Speaker 1: works the best. And I don't know much about audio,

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Speaker 1: which is silly in the industry I work in, But

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Speaker 1: I was like, is that what women normally hit or

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Speaker 1: men normally hit or anyway? Future episode? Perhaps I had

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Speaker 1: to stop myself that's going I did want to talk

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Speaker 1: about Final Girls because scream queens are closely related to

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Speaker 1: the Final Girls trope. UM, and this is a trope

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Speaker 1: that was first coined by Carol Clover in you can

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Speaker 1: go check out the episode we did on that UM.

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Speaker 1: One of the very first episodes I did as a

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Speaker 1: host on the show was actually the one I did

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Speaker 1: as a test run to see if I could if

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Speaker 1: I was had the stuff to be was Final Girls.

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Speaker 1: So it might be a bit rough because I was

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Speaker 1: a new host, but the content was pretty good. But basically,

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Speaker 1: a final girl is the last girl to confront the

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Speaker 1: killer in a slasher movie. She usually is young, white,

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Speaker 1: brown haired, more quote innocent than others, which means like

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Speaker 1: doesn't really drink, smoke, have sex. Again. Horror movies are

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Speaker 1: largely moralistic, especially towards younger people, and she has spent

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Speaker 1: the film being terrorized. Yeah, so this is such a

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Speaker 1: big trope that there are now movies called the Final Girl,

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Speaker 1: the Final Girls. I think there's a show. It was

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Speaker 1: like Key and Cabin in the Woods and the Final Girls.

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Speaker 1: So you know what it is like. Even if you're

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Speaker 1: kind of you never heard that term before, if you've

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Speaker 1: seen like a couple of horror movies. You know what

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Speaker 1: this is exactly. It's somebody you're meant to fill sympathy for.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to unpack that a little later as well,

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Speaker 1: But basically, somebody the audience can really get behind, really

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Speaker 1: doesn't want this killer to hurt. Not all screen queens

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Speaker 1: or final girls. Scream queens don't always survive, though they

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Speaker 1: often do. Some argue that the final girl is essentially

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Speaker 1: another step in the evolution of the scream queen, and

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Speaker 1: when we get to the evolution section we will dig

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Speaker 1: more into that, right. And also, not all actresses were

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Speaker 1: thrilled at being typecasted as a scream queen. A lot

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Speaker 1: of them were not taken seriously and have spoken about

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Speaker 1: the emotional and even physical strain of portraying these characters.

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Speaker 1: And I think I told you earlier We're going to

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Speaker 1: be doing a review for Slumber Party Massacre, and one

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Speaker 1: of the women in that movie had done several other

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Speaker 1: B list seedless horror movie and then ended up dying

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Speaker 1: at a really young age, dying by suicide. She like

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Speaker 1: had a whole rough go of it, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there's so much to her life, but I found that

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Speaker 1: tragic that that was kind of her whole thing, and

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Speaker 1: I think it partially. It did say within some of

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Speaker 1: the biography of her that she couldn't land any other roles,

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Speaker 1: so her career was very stagnant and maybe because of

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Speaker 1: stuff like this. And I've seen this talked about in

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Speaker 1: any typecasting that when you become that iconic character, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to shake it. So yeah, and I mean I

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Speaker 1: was reading an essay by somebody who loves horror. I

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Speaker 1: was talking about this tripe and just saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: like imagine, it's's very physical, like you're running and dodging

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Speaker 1: and being scared, and it's just a it's a drain. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very intense. And we're gonna talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: fact that some of these screen queens were tormented to

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Speaker 1: get that better reaction, which is ridiculous. Here's another definition,

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Speaker 1: which is a screen queen can also be referred to

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Speaker 1: someone who is a fan of are and may have

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Speaker 1: even starred in one or two films. So I guess

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Speaker 1: you could be a scream queen, Anny. I could be

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Speaker 1: a scream create. Weren't you in that vampire movie. I've

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Speaker 1: been a few horror movies. A new title to add

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Speaker 1: to my name. There is also a show called Scream

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Speaker 1: Queens that originally appeared in created by Ryan Murphy. It

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Speaker 1: was canceled after two seasons, but is getting a revival,

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Speaker 1: and the show follows some hilarious, unaware and privileged sorority

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Speaker 1: girls as they tried to discover the identity of a murder.

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Speaker 1: I guess hilarious was like editorial of me, but it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be funny. They're not necessarily trying to be hilarious,

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Speaker 1: but it's supposed to be funny. H And all these

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Speaker 1: murders are linked to a death caused by a childbirth

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Speaker 1: at a house party twenty years earlier that the sorority

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Speaker 1: members trying to cover up. And that has a really

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Speaker 1: amazing cast um Billy Lord, Ariana Grande, Abigail Breslin, and

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Speaker 1: Robert's Kiki Palmer, Lee Michelle Nick Jonas, Taylor Lautner, John Stamos,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps most import early for our conversation today, Jamie

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Speaker 1: Lee Curtis as the Dean, who is very much not

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Speaker 1: the rule she typically plays Scream Queen. That's like she

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Speaker 1: flirts with younger dudes. He doesn't just flirt, y'all. Oh,

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Speaker 1: so you've seen it. Yes, I saw the first season. Okay,

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Speaker 1: did you like it? Yeah, it definitely so. Have you

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Speaker 1: watched many of Ryan Murphy series. I've seen a few

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Speaker 1: American horror stories, so it's very much follows his typical style.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of one of those The first season

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Speaker 1: is typically really good, like it has a new way

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Speaker 1: of doing things and has a great idea, and then

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Speaker 1: it kind of falls apart slowly and like it goes

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Speaker 1: too far, it goes too long, it's too abrupt, all

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Speaker 1: those things to say. But I did enjoy the first season.

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Speaker 1: It was very tongue in cheek, over the top. It

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Speaker 1: kind of did that whole parody level. There was no

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Speaker 1: mistake in the fact that it was a parody to

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Speaker 1: everything to it. Yeah, and of course I had to

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Speaker 1: watch Jamie the Cardis because I pretty much love her

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Speaker 1: and almost everything. And Nissy Nash is in this too,

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Speaker 1: so she was fantastic in her role in this. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I enjoyed it. There's some scenes in there that

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what just happened? What am I watching? And

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Speaker 1: of course the opening scenes. The reason that the young

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Speaker 1: girl giving birth dies is because the sorority girls here

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Speaker 1: don't go Chasing Waterfalls by TLC and they're like, we

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Speaker 1: have to go dance and leave her to die so

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Speaker 1: they can go dance to the song at the parting.

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Speaker 1: It's so very tongue in cheek from the very beginning. Okay, wow,

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Speaker 1: all right, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it is interesting

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Speaker 1: I heard in researching this. I think I knew this before,

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Speaker 1: but I forgotten. But Jamie Lee Curtis is kind of

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Speaker 1: afraid of horror movies, so I know this. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that is interesting when we're talking again about like

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Speaker 1: the straight and emotional physical and then her staying like,

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Speaker 1: I don't even like the horror movies, and I can

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Speaker 1: just imagine that being really intense. But yeah, from what

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Speaker 1: I hear, this show is very it's meant to be

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Speaker 1: very meta, very parodies scream Is. I know it's well loved,

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Speaker 1: I know it has some problematic elements, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: want to put that in there. Yes, hopefully I get

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Speaker 1: to watch it. Something I'm I didn't know there was

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Speaker 1: going to be a revival, and I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be a revival. So it's a revival of

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Speaker 1: almost literally everything we're talking about on here right now.

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Speaker 1: And that is not a joke. When we get to

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Speaker 1: the characters that we chose, the screencreency chose, I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure every single one. Okay, alright, interesting, So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the evolution. As mentioned, the screen queen has evolved

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Speaker 1: over the years. As we said, many of the early

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Speaker 1: screen queens, like Fay Ray in King Kong are very

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Speaker 1: much damsels in distress. Again we're thinking is coming from

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Speaker 1: screen queen. So she's very iconic, blonde, beautiful, you know,

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Speaker 1: tormented by monsters who spent the entire time screaming and

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Speaker 1: crying and fainting and kneeding rescuing. I just remember her

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Speaker 1: like flopping about and you know, um King Kong's arms,

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Speaker 1: it's just like k it passes out. Yeah, I forgot

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Speaker 1: about the fainting. Yeah, how common that used to be.

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Speaker 1: She looks up and face again, and looks up and

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Speaker 1: face again. Yes, she's often sexualized for the male gaze. Yes,

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Speaker 1: she has less and less close throughout the movie, more

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Speaker 1: of an object than a fleshed out character. And she

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Speaker 1: was not the one to confront the villain, but rather

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Speaker 1: coward from them, serving as surprise for the man who

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Speaker 1: did um or. She died at the hands of the villain,

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Speaker 1: like Jane at Lee's naked in the shower in Psycho.

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Speaker 1: But Lee also helped give birth to the next generation

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Speaker 1: of screen queens, literally and figuratively, Yes, which I did

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Speaker 1: not know until you pointed this ound. Yeah, I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's the daughter, Like she brought on a whole new

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Speaker 1: generation of scream queens. Yes, because generally is Jamie Lee

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Speaker 1: Curtis's mother. I could not know. As audiences taste and

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Speaker 1: attitude shifted, and awareness of the genre and his problematic

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Speaker 1: trips grew, the scream queen evolved. She became more self

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Speaker 1: aware and dependent and intelligent. She was still sexualized, though

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Speaker 1: not as much like one of those definitions said earlier,

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Speaker 1: kind of more of that girl next door sort of thing. Innocent, Definitely.

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Speaker 1: She spent a lot of time screaming and crying, but

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Speaker 1: she had more agency and competency. She was often the hero,

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Speaker 1: able to survive and out with the villain even in

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Speaker 1: the face of terror, though sometimes she did still need saving.

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Speaker 1: I totally forgotten the original Halloween the doctor psychiatrist guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I totally forgot. He showed up and was like, I'll

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Speaker 1: do it. But yes, Jamie Lee Curtis speaking of is

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Speaker 1: one of the most iconic screen queens from this period

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Speaker 1: right and nowadays, as some of the classic screen queens

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Speaker 1: are reprising their roles in a new additions to their franchises,

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Speaker 1: the two has expanded to include proactive traumatized vengeful seekers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They spend the entire film show facing off with a

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Speaker 1: villain instead of spending most of it as a terrified

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Speaker 1: victim before becoming the empowered survivor. I know, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them when they do have old characters come back,

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Speaker 1: they're the ones that usually die. Yeah, yeah, okay, So

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Speaker 1: they had the original young lady who survived the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Because she did, she wasn't allowed to go to the prom.

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Speaker 1: In the remake that just happened. She actually dies to

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Speaker 1: save them, I believe. I feel like that's a it's

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Speaker 1: a narrative tool of both, like here's this character you

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Speaker 1: probably loved, so you can have that nostalgia factor and

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Speaker 1: and taking the risky move of killing them off, which

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Speaker 1: is either going to really make people angry or make

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Speaker 1: them care. Yeah, losses real in this movie. There are

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Speaker 1: emotional steaks, But I feel like that happens a lot

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Speaker 1: when something's being revived. They bring back the old character

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Speaker 1: and then kill them. They did. Um. Yeah. They also

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Speaker 1: do a lot of teaching and educating the new generation

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Speaker 1: on how to survive, and the new generation usually ignores

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Speaker 1: them until it comes back to flashback. I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they said do this. They're they're crazy, they don't know

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Speaker 1: what they're talking about. That person is a cuckoo, right,

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Speaker 1: which is what I saw with Silent Hill. Annie. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait till we talk about that anyway, And

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Speaker 1: their trauma is more apparent and explore, so they do

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Speaker 1: do a little bit of a fleshing out at least

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Speaker 1: like past traumas um and some have even become feminist icons.

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Speaker 1: Yes again, like we look at Jamie Lee Curtis as

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Speaker 1: a feminist icon of being a scream coein that survives. Yeah. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: and that's interesting. As as I said it, I think

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Speaker 1: I wonder if one of the kind of evolution of

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Speaker 1: the scream queen is you know, it goes from Jamie

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Speaker 1: Lee Curtis is too pure and still does need saving

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Speaker 1: and the original Halloween, like, even if she did survive

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Speaker 1: and she was competent, a man still had to come

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Speaker 1: in because They didn't want her to be the killer

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Speaker 1: and like dirty herself in that way, whereas this next

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Speaker 1: evolution is they're coming for you. They're gonna get that killer.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you could argue that this and the Final

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Speaker 1: Guld trope plays into the idea of the perfect victim.

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Speaker 1: The fact that these are tropes that revolve around women

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Speaker 1: being victimized was calculated the belief that women would get

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Speaker 1: more sympathy more easily from the audience, that they were

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Speaker 1: weaker so it was scarier um, and that they could

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Speaker 1: still be sexualized for the male gaze. Some researchers even

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Speaker 1: argue that we fetished eyes women's pain, particularly when we

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Speaker 1: are looking through the eyes of the killer as he

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Speaker 1: torments women, usually with a phallic weapon. You can again

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Speaker 1: see our past episode on Final Girls for more of

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Speaker 1: my thoughts on that, which there are plenty. And then,

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Speaker 1: while the villain of the movie sometimes gets the credit

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Speaker 1: for keeping franchises going, others point out that really is

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Speaker 1: the protagonist that the scream queen we're rooting for. Many

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Speaker 1: often point to ninety eight Halloween as the introduction of

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Speaker 1: the menacing villain that can't be killed like that whole

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Speaker 1: trope Halloween kind of was the beginning of that. Some

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Speaker 1: critics argue as absence and Halloween three season of the

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Speaker 1: which was why that movie bombed. And I also have

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Speaker 1: thoughts on that, And you can see the movie Crush

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Speaker 1: episode I did about that one and Night Road Elm

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Speaker 1: Street three, Dream Warrior featuring another Scream queen ant Yes,

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Speaker 1: Nancy also Final Girl. Yes, I think she also dies

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Speaker 1: in the newer versions. Right, I think she did die

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Speaker 1: and Dream Warrior she did die, but I daily they

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Speaker 1: brought her back. Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought

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Speaker 1: she like it felt like a death that she would

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Speaker 1: return from. But anyway, you could also argue, Haveween introduced

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Speaker 1: this iconic villain's foil, the consummate survivor who rises up

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Speaker 1: and defeats them, only for them to do the whole

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Speaker 1: thing over and over and over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: So we do have some examples, both classic and more modern.

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Speaker 1: We're going to start with mine, which are the more

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Speaker 1: modern ones, and then and the kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: the the icon And yes, there's kind of a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff about Scream in the middle. But you mentioned

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Speaker 1: Sarah Michelle Geller, and she is also somebody that I

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Speaker 1: think of when I think of scream Queen, so we

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Speaker 1: wanted to start with her. She earned the scream Queen

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Speaker 1: designation after landing roles and things like Buffy the Vampire

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Speaker 1: Slayer screamed too. I know you did last summer and

426
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: the Grudge, and I know what you did last summer

427
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: is I don't know if a reboot is the right word.

428
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: There's a show on Amazon Prime right now, so yeah,

429
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: you can see past host and Lauren over from Savor

430
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: guested on an episode past host of spent he did

431
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: on Buffy the Van Parslayer, if you want to learn

432
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: more about that role and it's impact. I think Lauren

433
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: and I also talked about her when Lauren was a

434
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: guest once again to discuss the whole why didn't you

435
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: believe her? Trope and horror and I her also have

436
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: an interesting dichotomy when it comes to her Scream Queen's

437
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: status because on the one hand, Buffy was a feminist

438
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: icon and catapulted her to stardom, and this was a

439
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: character who was strong and badass feminine, directly confronting the

440
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: monsters and leading the Scooby Gang. She didn't do a

441
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: whole lot of screaming from what I remember she did,

442
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: but not not too much. In the Grudge, she was

443
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: competent um and confronted her fears and the ghost and

444
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: slashes like Scream Too and I Know What You Did

445
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: Last Summer. Though she has portrayed as something bordering but

446
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: not quite a bimbo, she's definitely a step above. And

447
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: I don't want this to sound a great at all,

448
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: but like in terms of like movie stereotype tropes, that's

449
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: sort of the vibe she had. Her death and I

450
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: Know What You Did Last Summer was the one that

451
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: hit me the hardest of that movie because she was

452
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: so close. The parade was right there. Ah, it's slightly different,

453
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: maybe more like people perceive her as the bimbo because

454
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: she's beautiful and blond, and that perception influences her life

455
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: in both. I think she's a twist on the trope um,

456
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: which is often called the horror and horror movies. The

457
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: horror trope who has to go first because she's beautiful

458
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: and has sex usually makes what the viewers are meant

459
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: to interpret his poor survival decisions. And Scream Too, she's

460
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: a callback to a joke made in the first movie

461
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: where in Sydney. The main character says she hates horror

462
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: movies because quote some stupid killers talking, some big breasted

463
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: girl who can't act, who is always running up the

464
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: stairs when she's should be running out the front door.

465
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: It's insulting. So this is how Sarah Michelle Geller dies

466
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 1: and screamed to like she runs up the stay. She

467
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: does try to go to the front door. She runs

468
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: up the stairs, then get stabbed and then thrown over

469
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: the balcony. But I don't think it's ever implied we

470
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: should be laughing at her that she's dumb um, just

471
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 1: more like meta horror commentary and poking fun at the trope.

472
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: Almost formulaic, but it's making fun of the formula. It's

473
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: just an interesting kind of trying to suss out because

474
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: I mean, at least for me personally, I was never like,

475
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: oh she was dumb. Of course she's gonna die, I

476
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: don't know, but she is kind of filling that trope,

477
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, all right, But okay,

478
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: speaking of Scream too in Sydney Prescott, let's talk about

479
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: Scream and Nev Campbell. Oh my gosh, I have so

480
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: many thoughts. We've talked about one of her most well

481
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: known roles before when we did an episode on the Craft,

482
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: but her turn as Sydney Prescott in the Scream franchises

483
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: what put her firmly in Scream queen territory. And we

484
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: should also say a lot of these actors have done

485
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: stuff the ones we were talking about, and we have

486
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: done stuff outside of horror, but they're sort of known

487
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 1: for this one role when it comes to the horror world. Anyway,

488
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: I know Nev Campbell really made headway as Party of

489
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: five sad girl, but I think it's that sad girl

490
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: thing is why she was so perfect for Scream. That

491
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: whole like persona of being sad, innocent puppy eyes made

492
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: her the perfect Sydney Prescott. Yes, yes, she's definitely, especially

493
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: in the first one and especially at the beginning of

494
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: the first one, she is like kind of a very

495
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: sweet girl next door innocent character. It does change, and

496
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: I do. I love this character and I love Scream,

497
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: and I know there are problematic things in these movies,

498
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that, but this is

499
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: one of the first horror movies and slashes that I saw,

500
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: which is funny in retrospect because the whole thing is

501
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: meta and poking fun at the horror genre. So I

502
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: was like, watching these movies that are big joke about horror,

503
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: and I really haven't seen much horror, and especially much Slashers.

504
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen them, they are very tongue in cheek,

505
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: they're very self aware of the genre. They're firmly in

506
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: the slasher comedy category. Actually, when we were watching Slumber

507
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: Party Masker, there were some things where I was like,

508
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: I wonder if they were inspired by Slumber Party Maskacer. Right,

509
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: the scene feels very reminiscent the first maybe debuted in

510
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: and was followed by Screen to Scream three, Screen four,

511
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,239
Speaker 1: now Scream five, which is set to come out in

512
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: January two. At their core, they sent her on Sidney

513
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: Prescott and the serial killer or killers trying to murder

514
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: her in a bunch of people in her orbit. Sydney

515
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: Prescott grew up in Woodsborro, surviving being the target of

516
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: seven serial killers so far, so many. There's gonna at

517
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: least one more, maybe two or three, including one who

518
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 1: was her half brother. And that is one way this

519
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: franchise is different than something like Halloween. The ghost face

520
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: serial killer is always someone different, it's not the same person,

521
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: coming back over and over and over again. She has

522
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: physically confronted them and outsmarted them on several occasions. Calling

523
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: back to hardship, she always takes the final just in

524
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: case shot to make sure they're really dead, except one time,

525
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: so yes, in the third one she didn't. So Sydney

526
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: is quite the kill count and has lost quite a

527
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: lot of people in the In the movie, she wrote

528
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: a book about her experiences and hopes of helping others,

529
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: but the fame and attention just once again made her

530
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: the target of a serial killer, another family member. In fact,

531
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: that's something that these movies examined, the fame aspect of

532
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: serial killers and those that survived them, and part with

533
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: the fictional in world film series based on the events

534
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: of Scream called Stab. There's a lot of commentary on

535
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: art imitating life in them. After her mother was murdered,

536
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: she provided the key testimony against Cotton Weary and yes,

537
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: the names are fantastic in these movies, the man her

538
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: mom was having a fair with, though it later turned

539
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: out she was wrong not about the affair but about

540
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: him killing her. I saw the first two movies when

541
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: I was nine years old, I saved up and purchased

542
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: about nine horror movies from a shop called media Play

543
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: that isn't around anymore, but it used to be like

544
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: a big deal. My family would go. The guy who

545
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: was checking me out did not say anything, did in

546
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: card me or I mean obviously I was nine, but

547
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: he didn't say anything. And I mean, looking back, should

548
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: I have been watching these? Know? But for some reason,

549
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: I immediately love Scream and I loved Sydney. I loved

550
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: the fun of pointing out the tropes and still using them,

551
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: of making used to specked everybody you directly discussing the

552
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: rules of horror movies and surviving them. No sex for women,

553
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: no showing your tits, no drugs or no alcohol, never

554
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: say I'll be right back. And the sequels they expound

555
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: on those rules, and they based it on like what

556
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: happens in a sequel, what happens in the trilogy, all

557
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: that stuff. They even comment on Jamie Lee Curtis being

558
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: a Scream queen and also her boobs. Of course I

559
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: bought the soundtracks. I tried to pull off the haircut,

560
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: which I was like, I'm kind of doing it now.

561
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: For sure, I did not pull it off when I

562
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: was a kid. No, no, no, no no. But I

563
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: did love Sydney. I loved how she flipped the tables

564
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: on the killers at the end, how she toyed with

565
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: them and she scared them ultimately killed them. We see

566
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: her standing up for herself and punching Courtney Cox's character

567
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: Gaale Weathers not once but twice, and they still have

568
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: like an interesting friendship thing going on later. How I

569
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: I really appreciated how they did explore her trauma or

570
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: PTSD and her survivals, guilt um things. Often people used

571
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: to dismiss her, like, oh, there's not another kille here,

572
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: It's just you have had trauma. She's like, but there's

573
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: dead bodies and I yeah. She was suspicious of boyfriends

574
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: and eventually everyone, but she still want to help. In

575
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: the beginning of the third film, she's working in anonymously

576
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: at a women's crisis counseling center and her trust and

577
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: boundaries are repeatedly violated, and the second one she is

578
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: compared to Cassandra, which is also comparison that comes up

579
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: in the Last of Us. Able to see the future

580
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: but cursed so that no one will listen to her

581
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: She's clever and cunning, brave and resilient, often funny, ready

582
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: with aquip of her own to the killer. She has

583
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: so many good quotes, so many good quotes. Yeah, and

584
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: she also has like equips for reporters or print callers.

585
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: And she's strong and fast and good with weapons, often improvised,

586
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: always pretty determined to uncover the killer's identity. Um. She's

587
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: definitely the heart of these movies, and the killers always

588
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: target her and they say Hello Sydney, which is sort

589
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: of their catchphrase. Um. In fact, when I told somebody

590
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: I was doing an episod on screen Queens, the first

591
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: thing she said was Hello Sidney. So while these movies

592
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: are in a lot of ways satirizing the Slashers, she's

593
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: not portrayed for comedic value are made fun of. She

594
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: is funny, she's not really made fun of. I did

595
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: want to talk about some of the things around six

596
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: and her mom and these nevies, because Sydney has a

597
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: lot of trauma around sex. And the first movie, she

598
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: is a high schooler who's painted as the innocent girl

599
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: next door type when her boyfriend Billy Loomis, who she

600
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: later finds out as the killer who has just been

601
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: dating her for revenge, which is awful, sneaks into her

602
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: bedroom at the beginning of the movie. He pressures her

603
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: to have sex, saying he's ready to move their relationship

604
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: to rated R and that she has a chastity belt

605
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: on and he would like her to remove it. She

606
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: asked if he's okay with a PG thirt movie instead

607
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: and flashes him, but the audience doesn't see her breast.

608
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: Right before the climax movie, she does have sex with

609
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: Billy just before he reveals himself and his friends to

610
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: as the killers. And just a note, she did suspect

611
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: Billie early in the movie and she was right too,

612
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: but he gaslighted her real hard and made her feel

613
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: really guilty about it, which is in part why she

614
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: agrees to have sex. Um. That's the only reason, but

615
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: it is a factor. After they called her, they said

616
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: because she had sex, she loses and has to die

617
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: and that she shouldn't have quote given it up. Um

618
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: And later this is flipped when her trauma was manipulated

619
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: to make her suspect her boyfriend, only for the killer

620
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: to kill him after she realizes he did not in

621
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: fact do it, which was very, very sad okay, But

622
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: speaking of the whole plot is essentially spurred on by

623
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: Sydney's mother cheating. Are some other grievance against her, including

624
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: her turning away her child. Sydney's half brother once again

625
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: blaming it on the mother, so the killer blames her

626
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: for their killing. In fact, the killer in the second

627
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: movie brings that up. It's like you always blame the mother,

628
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: which is interesting because she is the mother and she

629
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: is the killer, but that's neither hearing r there um.

630
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: One of the killers said that Sydney's mom was flashing

631
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: her all around town, even though she's no Sharon Stone.

632
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: Because of this, Sydney is understandably reticent around sex and

633
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: talks about she has trauma around the fact that the

634
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: whole country knows about how her mom cheated and that

635
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: they seemed to blame her for her own death i e.

636
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: Sex she was having led to her mom's death in

637
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: Sydney's mind, and everyone knows it and has an opinion

638
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: they're happy to discuss about it. She sees how her

639
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: mom is let shamed and victim blamed, and she's kind

640
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: of taking these precautions to make sure she is not.

641
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: In fact, In the first one, no one takes her

642
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: seriously because of her mom's bad reputation, thinking Sydney is

643
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: just out for more attention, and as the movies explored

644
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: this idea more. It turns out her mom, Maureen, went

645
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: to Hollywood to become an actor, starring in many b

646
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: horror movies, becoming something of a scream queen. However, the

647
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: producers took her to some party whereas implied, she was

648
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: promised roles that she never got an exchange for sex,

649
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: and she was so triumatized by the whole thing she

650
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: went on to have a lot of sex, and a

651
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: lot of it outside marriage, thus leading to all these

652
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: serial killers looking to get revenge on her and her daughter.

653
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: This is what the serial killers kind of say. This

654
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: is sort of their explanation of it um which yes,

655
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: a lot of blaming of women and the mother going on,

656
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: and that moralizing that horror movies often do. So I

657
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: would argue I never personally blamed Sidey's mom for these

658
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: mostly dudes killing people, and a lot of it is

659
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: painted as Sydney struggling with her mom's past and feeling

660
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: hurt that there was so much about her she didn't know.

661
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,479
Speaker 1: Sidney directly comments on this in the third one, telling

662
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: the killer he only kills because he wants to. Why

663
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: don't you take some big responsibility? And that part also

664
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: has one of my favorite curses in film history, damn

665
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: it so good. And here's where it gets really interesting,

666
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: slash real world upsetting. Scream three takes place in Hollywood

667
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: on the set of Stab three and brings to light

668
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: the trauma her mother went through there the producers saying

669
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: something along her lines like she was asking for it.

670
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: This is Hollywood, that's just what happens. That's how women

671
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: get parts that there were these parties where men in

672
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: power in the entertainment industry would get women drunk and high,

673
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: and then the women would be taking advantage of the

674
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: actors playing. Sydney and Stabbed three later says she slept

675
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: with the producer to get this part. These movies were

676
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: executive produced in part by Harvey Weinstein, so it's very

677
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: hard not to think that this is a commentary on

678
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: what was going on not just with him, but at

679
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: with Hollywood at large. Rose McGowan, who started in the

680
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: first Scream, later described mind scene raping her a year

681
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: after the movie came out. Many articles have been written

682
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: about this. Um Adam White wrote in the film was

683
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: quote an angry indictment of sexual misconduct in Hollywood, Predatory

684
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: men and the casting couch. The editor said that Wes

685
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: Craven's intentions around this Weinstein asked producer and screams through

686
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: were quote. West. I think was very interested in that

687
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 1: character as not necessarily the villain. He certainly is a villain,

688
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: but as a catalyst for the villain's motivation, he's really

689
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: the spark for the events. Or retcond that he is

690
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: the spark for the events in the entire series. Sydney's

691
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 1: half brother, the killer and child of their mother, Maureen.

692
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: The producer says that what they did to their mom

693
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: made her a slut that's his words again, not mine,

694
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: and ruined their lives. Also, Carrie Fisher has a cameo

695
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: as a carry Fisher look alike, saying Carrie Fisher only

696
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: got the role of Princess Leiah because she slept with

697
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 1: George Lukiss And with a lot of movies I've watched lately,

698
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: it has been interesting this. This even comes up in

699
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: White Black Swan is kind of the woman must have

700
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: slept with them to get whatever they got. That is

701
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: the only way. So yeah, it is upsetting that this

702
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: is enough of a thing that they're like, yeah, I

703
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: we'll make a movie on it. And then, just to

704
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: wrap up this very long Sydney Prescott section, I did

705
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: watch the trailer. I was kind of putting it off

706
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: because I think I actually would be devastated. But Australian

707
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: for Screen five came out like the day we were

708
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: talking about doing this, but it had a lot of

709
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,439
Speaker 1: things we're talking about where she says like I'm said,

710
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: Dey Prescott, of course I have a gun. I've been

711
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: through this a lot. Um there are certain rules for

712
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: surviving don't with the original. So we'll see, we'll see

713
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: what happens. Yeah, yeah, good Rundown. You've been waiting and

714
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: holding that in because I already had half the speech

715
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: when we watched screen three I did. I was like,

716
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,959
Speaker 1: I have to tell you all these things. I am

717
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: that annoying. First we had to purposely get it that weekend,

718
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: like we have to watch this you've never seen and

719
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: I'm like no, oh my god. And then and then

720
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: she told me everything. Yes, I try to hold it back,

721
00:40:50,520 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: but sometimes I just can't. Um and of course, we

722
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: couldn't talk about screen queens, and we've already mentioned her

723
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: a few times, but we had to take a deeper

724
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: look at the icon herself, the true legend, Jamie Lee Curtis,

725
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: and she even won the Greatest of All Time Award

726
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: from the MTV for her patrol as again the true

727
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: screen queen. And though the term screen queen, like we

728
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: said before, may have originated from the term screen queen,

729
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: we can see that Curtis shaped a whole new brand

730
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: of queens of horror. As we mentioned earlier, the movie

731
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: she's most noted for, which is Halloween, brought on several firsts,

732
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: including the new damesl not so in distress um and

733
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: again also known as the final girl that kind of

734
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: started happening like, Oh, she survives. She is savvy, but

735
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 1: she does hold that trip of being virginal and sweet

736
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: and naive but not too naive because throughout she knows

737
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: something's happening really creepy like and yeah, and she is

738
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: back with a vengeance. Between her taking on the rolls

739
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: within the series like Scream Queens and a couple of

740
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: new movies to continue with the Tale of the Unkillable

741
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: Killer Michael Meyers says we mentioned earlier, but she also

742
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: was in other horror movies pretty much immediately after Halloween,

743
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: which included prom Queen, The Fog, and Terror Train. I

744
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: have never seen any of these, have you. I think

745
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: I've seen prom Queen and the Fog. I don't think

746
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 1: I've seen Terror Train. Now you have another one to watch, yes,

747
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 1: as her iconic performance as the sweet babysitter Laurie Schroeder

748
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: that brought on a whole new generation up screen queens.

749
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: And this whole also trouble with a babysitter because I

750
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: became a huge thing for a while. Concluding the phone

751
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: Call Inside Your House, that very trope set in a

752
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 1: fictional town in Illinois where we see the now cliche

753
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: but new at the time. I'm of a woman being

754
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: scared from an unknown character who not only comes to

755
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: stalk her, but to kill off all her friends before

756
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: he comes for her, only to come out alive, and

757
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: she returns for another round in Halloween two, which I

758
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever seen that one either. Did you

759
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: see this one? I have seen. I think I've seen

760
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: all the Halloween's except the newest one. Does all her

761
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: friends died that one to most of them, Okay, I

762
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: would not be friends with her, I'm sorry. And then

763
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: again in Halloween h two. Oh, and now in the

764
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: newest movie in the lineup, Halloween Kills. I haven't watched

765
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: that one yet. Did you say you watched it? I

766
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: have not, So I have friends who've seen it, and

767
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: I've gotten their reviews because, as I said, I do

768
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: like slasher movies, but they're not what I normally seek out,

769
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: and I have gotten I mean, I don't know what

770
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: the right word for it is. Some people say you've

771
00:43:58,320 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: just gotten older, but like, since I'm like, I'll get

772
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: a like all this is said, they're just killing all

773
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: these people, and especially if it's like really grizzly and

774
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: the new newer Halloween one, not this newest one, I

775
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: got pretty uncomfortable, which I think is the point. But yeah,

776
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: I was uncomfortable, and so I was like kind of

777
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: waiting to see what people said and the reviews I

778
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: got where it's extremely dark, extremely a nihilistic, very very

779
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 1: gory um and that Lori spoilers ten seconds skip ahead,

780
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: spends most of it in coma, as she did in

781
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: Halloween to oh yeah, she does. She isn't it. But

782
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 1: she's com for most of it. Yeah, I did see

783
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: that she's not really present, and then I didn't know

784
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: what it was about because I don't know much about it.

785
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: I know one of the premiers though, she does dress

786
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: up as her mother from Psycho if you want to

787
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: go see those pictures as well, Janet Lee. Um. But yeah,

788
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: so she has been a part of this dynasty now loyalty.

789
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're calling them between queens, and

790
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: she would be the first part some that would pop

791
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: in my head as we speak of her and her

792
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: iconic roles. But yeah, she's also she was one of

793
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: the few that was able to break out of that

794
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: as being really comedic in her performance. She was in

795
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 1: true lies, whole different conversation in itself. So she has

796
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: been she's been able to really bust through that. And

797
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: she again, as you said, she didn't love horror, she

798
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: doesn't like being scared, and having this as part of

799
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: her trope was like what But yeah, but it wasn't

800
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: just Jamie Lee Curtiss who shined as a scream queen,

801
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: but yeah, her mother Janet Lee. Now Genet Lee's role

802
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: was fairly minute, as in like it wasn't very long. Um.

803
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: She was in the movie Psycho for a short amount

804
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: of time. Like you see her, she is being very suspicious,

805
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: running away in her car. She goes to the hotel

806
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: and at this point in time we find out like

807
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: she's had an affair, she's taken some money. Not a

808
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: very likable character and will come back to that in

809
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: a minute. And at the same time we see the

810
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: peep hole right where the dude comes through, and then

811
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: we see the infamous shower scene, which has been replicated

812
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: uh and been parodied. I don't know how many times

813
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: that scene alone made her an icon all in itself.

814
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: But she wasn't the only damsel in distress, though not

815
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: quite a damsel. And we should probably explore this more

816
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: later in a different episode maybe as Hitchecock really like

817
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: making beautiful women somehow always be a partial villain, if

818
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,439
Speaker 1: not completely villainous to the point that you weren't said

819
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: that they died, um, and they typically were very beautiful

820
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: blonde Hollywood women. That this is the type of women

821
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: Hitchcock had in his movies. Uh. And he was actually

822
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: known again for hiring and oftentimes tormenting these beautiful blonde

823
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: leading ladies to the point that he was quoted as saying,

824
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: I always believe in following the advice of playwright Victorian Sordu,

825
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: torture the women. So he actually said that out loud

826
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: as if it was funny, and he didn't just torment

827
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: in the actual movie. There are a lot of times

828
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: that these women are punished by going through some type

829
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: of tragic death in the movies. And he would also

830
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: go after the ladies off camera. There are allegations of

831
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: sexual misconduct, verbal abuse, stalking, and outright harassment. He even

832
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 1: went as far as the to demand control over these

833
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: ladies clothing and fashion um even when they were not filming.

834
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: So he actually had their stories of the fact that

835
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: he sent people to follow Grace Kelly when she was

836
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: a part of the Rear Window project. And then of

837
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: course there are those who would say this was for

838
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: the sake of the movies that he was directing, But

839
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: there's always the underlying misogyny and overall self hate apparently

840
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: perhaps similar to those who identify as in cells that

841
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 1: he was able to tap into uh to push himself

842
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: to be to use these types of tactics. I will

843
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: say that's been reported a lot that he really felt

844
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: like he was really ugly and told people how unattractive

845
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: he was, but he also tortured blonde women as the

846
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: women he could not have. There are also conversations that

847
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: he was fairly um, he wasn't sexual like he rarely

848
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: like engaged in sexual activities from what people are saying,

849
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: to the point that there are some allegations that maybe

850
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: he was homosexual, maybe he was gay um but just

851
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: never came out. But there were stories that he actually

852
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: tried to sexually who worse his actresses and in any case,

853
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: again he pushed the leading ladies into the genre of

854
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: screen queens that we do see today, from Janet Lee

855
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: in Psycho to Tippy Hedron in The Birds, which scared

856
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: out of me as a kid because I know people

857
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: already know they used real life birds, did not care

858
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: that it was attacking this woman, and according to a

859
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: few reports, she was the one that was probably most harassed.

860
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: She was also in two of his movies, so she

861
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: had written in her memoir about the awful things that

862
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:07,439
Speaker 1: Hitchcock did to her, and perhaps uh it did help

863
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: bring a whole new level of scream queens where it

864
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: wasn't that these ladies were awful ladies dying in horrible ways.

865
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: But there's a little bit of justice now at the end.

866
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: But it never really ends, does it, does it? Though?

867
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: Never as long as we keep seeing these movies and no,

868
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: But also yeah, there has been a Psycho reboot, remake,

869
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: reboot on a lot of the Psycho Weir Window the

870
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: Birds yet. So I find a couple of things interesting

871
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: about this one. Because I saw Psycho probably when I

872
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: was in high school, much later in my horror movie

873
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: it might have even in college. And when I saw it,

874
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: because I had seen all these other horror movies first,

875
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: and I just grew up in a different time, there

876
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: was no part of me that was like, oh, she's

877
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: a bad person, deserves to die. I was shocked she die.

878
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: I knew, I've seen the shower scene, but I was shocked.

879
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: It was so freaking early beginning, Yeah, because they're kind

880
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: of her painting it as like, oh, she's gonna be

881
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: like the main character and maybe be tormented throughout, and

882
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: then like her sister shows up, and I was like, right, oh,

883
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: because there has to be Like even then, I was like,

884
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: they almost always has to be this woman, this pretty

885
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: woman for the villain to torment. But I just think

886
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: that was an interesting experience because I was just seeing it,

887
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: not from those eyes, right right. And I am uh

888
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: a huge fan of old movies, like I love musicals,

889
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: I love the old things. But when you start realizing, um,

890
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: some of the awful tactics behind it and some of

891
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: the actualities of these movies, including most of Hitchcock films,

892
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: you're like, what the hell? And it does change what

893
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,959
Speaker 1: you saw versus what you thought you saw, because yeah,

894
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: you never if you don't pay attention, and you really

895
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: don't know why she ran away. For the longest time,

896
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out why she ran away,

897
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: Like I don't don't get it. I don't get it.

898
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: She's meeting somebody, I don't get it. And then you realize, oh,

899
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: she embezzled money. Yeah, she's a she's a hearlot, as

900
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: they would say, because she had an affair with a

901
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: very flirty boss um. But yeah, there's also because he

902
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: does this to all of them. There's something that's like

903
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: a little off about the women that they're not purely innocent.

904
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: Does the same thing with strangers on a train, like

905
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: to the point that there was almost like a sigh

906
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: of relief with some of the audience watched her being

907
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: strangled to death, and you're like why, But because he

908
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: made it that way. He wanted that trope to be

909
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: that way. And I found that very fascinating to like,

910
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: oh man, you are really twisted and you had a

911
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: lot of issues. Bro. Yeah. I mean there's a lot

912
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: to be said that. I feel like one of the

913
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: more recent examples when I was watching the new Drastic

914
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: Old and there's that like babysitting character. I might have

915
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: told this word before, but I mean she was supposed

916
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: to be so annoying, and I felt like, you know,

917
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: she was not that annoying. Like I would be annoyed

918
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: too if my boss was like heard her of these

919
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: two random kids and watched them. When she died, and

920
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,240
Speaker 1: she dies like a long drawn out death, people were laughing,

921
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, Okay, but I kind of

922
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: get the vibe, like I get having like a villainous

923
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:28,439
Speaker 1: character and being relieved when they're gone. But I feel

924
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: like with these women like often that they're not like

925
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: maybe they're not great, but it's not like that. How

926
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: do you think she deserved to be staffid? Peeping Tom

927
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: because he had mommy issues exactly. And that's kind of

928
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: the thing, Like it's almost like this early version of

929
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: the Scream Queen before there was the final girl was

930
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: like the horror trope, like she was the one that

931
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: was she was pretty and she was having sex, so

932
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 1: she has to go, but there wasn't like I guess

933
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 1: her sister was more innocent when she showed up. Another

934
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: thing I find interesting about this example when you type

935
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: in like scream queens. I for me, a lot of

936
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: the examples that come up on like Top twenty screen

937
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: queen list, it was like one actor, one role, which

938
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: this one is I kind of people know that scene.

939
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: It had a huge impact. Like Nancy, like we talked

940
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: about from Nightmare on Elm Street, she was in you know,

941
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: a couple but not that many. But for me, like

942
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: a screen queen is like Jamie Lee Curtis or something.

943
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: But it is interesting how many actually that they represent

944
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 1: the movie? Right, if you think of that movie, that's

945
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: the person you see in your head. Yes, And this

946
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: isn't to like say that if you're if you're not

947
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: jb Lee Curtis, then't get out screen queen of mine.

948
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: It was just interesting how many of them were not

949
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: kind of what I thought, which was somebody who does

950
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 1: a bunch of horror, just like remember this one role

951
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 1: and they did it so well, and which also makes sense,

952
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: but it shows the kind of the varied landscape of

953
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: people's understandings of what a screen queen is. Right in

954
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: trilogies didn't happen until that's true away a little bit later.

955
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 1: So that's kind of that you don't have the reoccurring

956
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: things that's more recent. That is that is true. And

957
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: plenty of of the women I'm thinking of on these lists,

958
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: like even Sarah Michelle Geller, it's not like she's done

959
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: a bunch. I don't know that I would count Buffy

960
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: the vand personally I get that it is she doesn't

961
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: have that one role where she plays the European mid

962
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: century princess. So they do the Halloween costumes and they

963
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: transform into whatever costume they're wearing from that shop. Oh

964
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: does Xander's army military dude? And I don't know this,

965
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: what's her name? She turned into a ghost? This is

966
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: what we get introduced to Seth Green. Uh do you

967
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: not remember any of that? Really? It was a big

968
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 1: one where like because she turns into this like Danzel

969
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: in distress and hides behind Xanders. Xander's like the big

970
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: bad guy and Angels shows up. Was like, what is happening?

971
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: What is oh? I thought you were talking about a

972
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: different movie. Okay, okay, I got it. So I just

973
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: remember that horror face she had. She did it so well,

974
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: there's definitely irritating. Well, she was being a damnsel in distressed. Yeah,

975
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: she's there are some episodes of Buffy where she's definitely terrified.

976
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: For sure. It's just I guess in my mind it

977
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: doesn't really fit if you look at the whole the

978
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 1: depth of it, right, that was not that often. But anyway, anyway,

979
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: all that to say, there's there are a lot of

980
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: places we could have got, people we could have picked out.

981
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: I like who we did. I feel like we touched

982
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: on some big ones. I didn't want to have an

983
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: honorable mention Sigourney Weaver from Alien, Ghostbusters, The Village Cabin

984
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 1: in the Woods, um which he has directly comments on

985
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: the Final Girl Shope and she's sort of the god

986
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: do a Makina in that movie. And you can see

987
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 1: our feminist movie Friday on Alien and the movie Crush

988
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: episode that I did on Alien. But yeah, we've been

989
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: going on for a minute now. I guess we should

990
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: wrapp this one up. Thanks again to Jessica for this suggestion.

991
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: It was a fun one. Um. If you would like

992
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: to suggest anything for us to talk about listeners that

993
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: you can, we would love to hear from you. You

994
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: can email as a stuff Media mom stuff at i

995
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: heeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter

996
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: at moms podcast or on Instagram. And Stuff I've Never

997
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: Told to You thinks It's always to our super producer Christina.

998
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I

999
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: Never Told. The production of I Heart Radio from more

1000
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: podcast on my Heart Radio is the heart radio app

1001
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, wherever you listen to your favorite shows