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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: This is the show where we look back on our

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Speaker 2: old episodes from 2018 and ask the hard-hitting questions like,

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Speaker 2: what the hell were we talking about?

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Speaker 1: Today we're rewinding episode 124, which we named Errant Duct Tape.

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Speaker 3: Of course we did.

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Speaker 2: This episode originally came out June.

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Speaker 3: 7th, 2018.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into the intro of episode 124.

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Speaker 3: And begin.

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Speaker 4: Hello and welcome. This is my favorite murder.

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Speaker 2: This is the true crime podcast where we get real serious.

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Speaker 2: And then there's a weird fart sound in the background.

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Speaker 3: That was like a... Could you hear that, Stan? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 4: Um.

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Speaker 3: It was probably plumbing. That really threw me off my game.

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Speaker 3: It was. You better start over. You know my game,

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Speaker 3: how tight my game is. Your pod game?

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Speaker 4: My podcast game is usually real tight.

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Speaker 2: Now, when you train to record, you use a small

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Speaker 2: rubber ball just for dexterity and just like to throw

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Speaker 2: against the wall.

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Speaker 4: Throw against the wall and I catch it. And like

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Speaker 4: you can tell there's a montage usually where it's like

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Speaker 4: my brain's getting bigger. The podcast part of my brain

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Speaker 4: is growing.

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Speaker 3: And what song is playing during that montage, would you say?

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Speaker 4: Dude, Eye of the Tiger. Obviously. I have a tiger

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Speaker 4: all day, every day. That's all that goes through my brain.

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Speaker 2: It's not the other hit song by that same band,

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Speaker 2: My Brain is Swelling, and it's causing cranial pressure?

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Speaker 3: No, it's just clowns laughing. That song, Clowns Laughing?

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Speaker 4: It's just the sound of multiple clowns laughing.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty soothing.

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Speaker 4: It's like that kind of clown that's got a cigar

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Speaker 4: that looks like it just blew up. You know, like

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Speaker 4: had a trick blow-up-y thing in it. Like Krusty the Clown.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 4: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Do you know that somebody mentioned, somebody cited this and

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Speaker 2: actually said, and maybe they were just being sarcastic, but

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Speaker 2: you know how we named one.

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Speaker 3: Of our episodes like breakfast wine or morning wine?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, breakfast wine, I think.

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Speaker 3: It's from Arrested Development.

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Speaker 4: Oh, really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something that the mom says. Which I'm sure

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Speaker 2: if I said it, I stole it from that.

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Speaker 3: Like, that's all I do. No, I think I've had

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Speaker 3: breakfast wine before.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: It's one of those phrases that are in the lexicon.

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Speaker 3: And the vernacular?

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Speaker 4: And the vernacular. All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's funny that people would be

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Speaker 2: giving us credit where it's like, you know, this show

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Speaker 2: was from eight years ago, right? Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, we said it first, probably. Same thing with Murderino.

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Speaker 4: That's from The Simpsons, it turns out. That's how I

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Speaker 4: thought of it. Just now.

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Speaker 3: We didn't know that, but now we know. Now we know.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to send a cease and desist to Arrested

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Speaker 2: Development for stealing our ideas eight years ago.

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Speaker 3: Okay. And putting them on TV. Yeah. Before we even met.

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Speaker 3: Take that. Take that. I was working at.

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Speaker 4: Let's see, eight years ago.

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Speaker 3: Podcast didn't exist.

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Speaker 4: 2010.

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Speaker 3: At Arrested Development?

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Speaker 4: No. Where were you working in 2010?

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Speaker 3: 2010, I believe.

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Speaker 2: That's the year I decided to up and get a

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Speaker 2: divorce and move to New York. I was like, should

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Speaker 2: I change my fall look?

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Speaker 3: You're straight up. What's her face? Throwing her hat in

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Speaker 3: the air.

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Speaker 4: Mary Tyler Moore.

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Speaker 3: All I had to do was make the gesture and

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Speaker 3: you knew what I was talking about. Mary Tyler Moore,

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Speaker 3: but the wrong city and she's never married. But you

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Speaker 3: did throw a hat in the air.

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Speaker 4: Yes or no?

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Speaker 3: I threw a hat at people.

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Speaker 4: I'm not a hat person.

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Speaker 3: But I will use one as a weapon. No, a cloche,

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Speaker 3: a nice cloche. What's a cloche?

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Speaker 4: A cloche is the 1920s, like, little, they, like, kind

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Speaker 4: of flare out at the end. They look like German helmets.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 4: A nice little felt cloche.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen my fucking humongous face? Dude, have you

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Speaker 3: seen my... I can't fit into, like, hats, into normal

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Speaker 3: lady-sized hats. Too small? Yeah, my giant head. No, huge head.

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Speaker 3: You have a huge head? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does

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Speaker 3: not look like it at all.

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Speaker 4: It's a secret huge head.

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Speaker 3: Really?

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Speaker 2: You're keeping a great secret over there. Me, I'm all

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Speaker 2: over the map with this. I'm telling everybody with my

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Speaker 2: huge head how huge my head is.

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Speaker 3: Couldn't be bigger.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing worse than people are like, this is sending

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Speaker 2: me into a spiral of thinking about having to get ready.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever had to get ready at a friend's

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Speaker 2: house when you were like, say you guys went to

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Speaker 2: the beach all day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Then you make a decision.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 3: At six o'clock, we're going to go dance. Can I

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Speaker 3: borrow a dress or something?

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: Great.

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Speaker 3: They give you the ugliest dress they have.

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Speaker 4: Hey, how about this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's been laying in the bottom of my closet.

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Speaker 1: How about this?

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Speaker 4: Because I know you and I know you're never going

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Speaker 4: to return this to me. So let me give you

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Speaker 4: something I don't care. I don't care about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And you won't look better than me. And you won't

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Speaker 3: look better than me.

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Speaker 2: And I don't actually care about your feelings or well-being.

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Speaker 2: So just put this fucking on and shut up. I

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Speaker 2: cannot tell you how many times where I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: I simply won't go to the second location with you then.

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Speaker 3: That's from 30 Rock.

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Speaker 2: Yes. sight your sight your uh always sight footnote footnote

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Speaker 2: three yes uh yeah like and they just that idea

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Speaker 2: of hats or what it made me think of one

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Speaker 2: time my friend i was like can do you have

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Speaker 2: sunglasses i was so hung over in my friend's car

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Speaker 2: she opens up her glove compartment and pulls out no

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Speaker 2: joke they were checkerboard sunglasses but they were also big

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Speaker 2: rounded cat eyes so i look like that guitarist from

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Speaker 2: cheap trick i looked like a fucking lunatic and i

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Speaker 2: was like Can I not be the one?

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Speaker 4: I don't like.

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Speaker 3: Attention like this.

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Speaker 4: It's like raising your hand and being like, I'm hung

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Speaker 4: over to everyone who walks by.

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Speaker 2: I'm hung over and I might be able to sell

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Speaker 2: you ecstasy if you ask me with the right code word.

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Speaker 4: That'd be nice.

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Speaker 3: All right. Luckily, we got that off our chest.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad we talked about that. You were saying you

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Speaker 4: haven't watched any true crime shit. No, the.

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Speaker 2: I've been deep into things like Howard's End, which if

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Speaker 2: you haven't seen it and you like a period piece,

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Speaker 2: they made it for stars, I believe. And it was

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Speaker 2: with the best Mr. Darcy, Matthew McFadden, and a woman

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Speaker 2: who you've seen in a million things, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know her name.

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Speaker 3: Sorry. And it was so good. It was so good.

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Speaker 2: Brilliantly done it's it's better than the movie which was

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Speaker 2: with Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson.

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Speaker 4: Well I I can't believe you haven't seen this because

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Speaker 4: I think I slipped into your brain and watched this

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Speaker 4: show on Netflix kind of new called safe it's a

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Speaker 4: fucking British procedural oh this girl goes missing it's a

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Speaker 4: it's based on a book by Harlan Coben who I

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Speaker 4: guess is like a mystery.

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Speaker 2: Writer okay I think I've heard that it's all British

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Speaker 2: people Coben with a b or an h Cohen c-o-b-e-n

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Speaker 2: oh okay uh okay main dude it's the dad he's

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Speaker 2: the guy there's some shady shit going on what's going

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Speaker 2: on it's fucking michael c hall with the hardest british

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Speaker 2: accent you've ever fucking heard dexter.

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Speaker 4: Yeah what yeah oh i have so distracting but it's

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Speaker 4: also like distracting because it's so good but it's you're

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Speaker 4: clearly a good fake british.

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Speaker 2: Accent oh so he's not originally british no no it

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be but I would love that as

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Speaker 2: a reveal. No.

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Speaker 3: Like, I've been British this whole time.

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Speaker 4: No, because I went to his house once. I've been

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Speaker 4: to his house.

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Speaker 1: Why?

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Speaker 4: My friend's friend was having a party there and he

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Speaker 4: was very nice and not British.

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Speaker 3: Okay. All right. Although, what if at the party he

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Speaker 3: was putting on an American accent?

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Speaker 2: Because he's like, people want me to do my Dexter

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Speaker 2: thing when I'm at the party.

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Speaker 4: I'm studying for a role, usually. Oh, that wasn't bad, right? No,

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Speaker 4: it was really good.

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Speaker 3: Everything we do is good. I'm really good at karaoke.

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Speaker 3: It turns out.

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Speaker 4: Also, I have a half an hour left of Killing Eve,

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Speaker 4: and I'm really excited about it.

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Speaker 3: I just started Killing Eve. Oh, you did?

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Speaker 4: It's good, right? I loved it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, love it. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Those two ladies, Sandra Oh and the woman.

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Speaker 3: God, she's good.

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Speaker 2: That's a good show. There's also lots of great British

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Speaker 2: actors in that show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the dude who plays the bill, who plays.

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Speaker 2: yeah the boss or the asshole boss the cool boss

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Speaker 2: i love that guy yeah he's from i knew you'd

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Speaker 2: know him i'm gonna have to think about that for

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Speaker 2: a little while but anyway that's a delightful show yeah

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Speaker 2: it's really good and then did you see somebody tweeted

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Speaker 2: at us that they went to the screening they wore

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Speaker 2: a murderino shirt and then a bunch of people yelled

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Speaker 2: at them and they had like a moment i love

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Speaker 2: it it's very cool i hope i.

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Speaker 4: Hope sandra oh heard that and knows that we think

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Speaker 4: she's rad we love you she's just so cool she

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Speaker 4: plays like this bumbling detective yes i love it but.

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Speaker 2: Like it made me think of because i don't watch

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Speaker 2: gray's anatomy i've watched it a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit wait you're not obsessed with gray's anatomy.

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Speaker 2: I know i'm not a gray's craze i don't have

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Speaker 2: an anatomar and anatomire there it is.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna trademark.

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Speaker 4: That uh in the net in canada.

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Speaker 3: Um When she was in the movie. Don't touch my toe.

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Speaker 3: When she was in.

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Speaker 2: Sideways, which I just rewatched once again because it's so good.

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Speaker 2: She is so sexy in that movie.

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Speaker 3: Just that messy hair. And then in this one, Killing Eve.

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Speaker 3: That's a movie.

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Speaker 1: It is?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Thank God.

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Speaker 4: Why am I even pretending to know who's in anything?

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Speaker 3: Killing Zoe's a different one.

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Speaker 4: It's with the guy who was in the mask.

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Speaker 3: Eric Stoltz. And then Julie Delphi.

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Speaker 4: Whoa.

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Speaker 3: Only because I had a big crush on her.

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Speaker 4: Julie Delphi? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Go on. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, no.

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Speaker 2: What I was going to say is she's the different...

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Speaker 2: When I first started watching Killing Eve... All I could

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Speaker 2: think of was I can't believe it's the same person

241
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Speaker 2: who was in Sideways being the sexy girl that has

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Speaker 2: the affair.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because she is doing that kind of like dumpy thing.

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Speaker 3: And it's so funny.

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Speaker 4: She's good.

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Speaker 3: She's great.

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Speaker 4: I want to kind of do a quick fucking piece

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Speaker 4: of business.

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Speaker 3: Would you? It's not that boring. Give this podcast some

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Speaker 3: fucking structure. I will not. So we have a fan

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Speaker 3: cult now, a fan cult.

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Speaker 4: Club that you if you go on my favorite murder.com

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Speaker 4: you can join it you get a free t-shirt a

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Speaker 4: fan cult t-shirt.

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Speaker 3: And an enamel pin.

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Speaker 4: And then we also do like we're going to post videos.

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Speaker 4: We're going to post old live shows that we've never

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Speaker 4: posted before. Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a big deal, actually.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: We haven't mentioned that.

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Speaker 3: We haven't really mentioned that. I think we should start

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Speaker 3: doing this week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The fan cult right now, it's like, you know, you

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Speaker 2: pay money and then you get to be on a

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Speaker 2: forum nobody else gets to be on. And we that's

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Speaker 2: when we are like posting tour videos and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: when we could but we are going to start releasing

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Speaker 2: old live shows that we've never released before on the

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Speaker 2: fan cult yeah so if you are one of those

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Speaker 2: people that likes to tweet at us once a month

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Speaker 2: for three years straight about how you want your episode

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Speaker 2: of the show that you're at to be posted well

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Speaker 2: guess what join that fan cult because then that's how

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Speaker 2: you're going to be able to.

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Speaker 4: Listen and actually we should start a chat room is

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Speaker 4: that still a thing i don't want to in the

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Speaker 4: forums on the fan cult and say which ones you

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Speaker 4: want to see that are from the, which live shows.

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Speaker 3: Oh, like start a thread.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because I don't remember what any of them were like.

284
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Speaker 3: But, okay.

285
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Speaker 4: So now people are posting, somehow people just started posting

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Speaker 4: photos of their pets in the fan club t-shirt that

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Speaker 4: they get for free. And it's the best. Of course,

288
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Speaker 4: of course.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 4: I made Steven put a slideshow up, a slideshow up

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Speaker 4: on Instagram. And so I want everyone to now hashtag

292
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Speaker 4: fan cult pets. when you put your pet in there

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Speaker 4: and we'll make slideshows like once a week of the

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Speaker 4: pets with the t-shirts. Cause it's like, and then there

295
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Speaker 4: was someone who posted a fucking goat in the t-shirt

296
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Speaker 4: today and it.

297
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Speaker 3: Just made my day.

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Speaker 2: That's the funniest thing because in lately the couple of

299
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,579
Speaker 2: times I've posted, I took the dumbest picture in the

300
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,179
Speaker 2: world of Georgia and then I had to post it

301
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Speaker 2: cause she looked so stupid. Cause I was weirdly over her.

302
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,340
Speaker 2: So her eyes were crossed, but it looked like she

303
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,970
Speaker 2: was smiling and she has these tiny little teeth. Anyway,

304
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Speaker 2: Every time I post a picture of either of my dogs,

305
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Speaker 2: people respond with pictures of their dogs.

306
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Speaker 4: I love it.

307
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,100
Speaker 2: And it is the cutest, most fun thing because then

308
00:11:58,140 --> 00:12:00,720
Speaker 2: it's just like, it's as we're all pretending dogs are

309
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Speaker 2: talking to each other.

310
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Speaker 3: I love it. Normally I don't go for stuff like this.

311
00:12:03,550 --> 00:12:05,050
Speaker 4: George says hi to so-and-so.

312
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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 4: So-and-so says hi.

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Speaker 2: I think in this day and age where everything around

315
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Speaker 2: us is an onslaught of horror, you need like a

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Speaker 2: picture of a dog in a shirt.

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Speaker 3: Amen. Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Amen.

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Speaker 3: Thank God.

320
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Speaker 4: Hashtag fan cult pets. And someday I'll put Marty in

321
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:26,370
Speaker 4: his fucking fan culture. My dad. Marty.

322
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Speaker 3: Who joined the fan cult on his own accord. God

323
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Speaker 3: bless him. Even though I would have given it to

324
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Speaker 3: him for free. I'm not a fucking cheapskate.

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Speaker 2: I would have given I would have given you 20

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Speaker 2: bucks to go in half on Marty's membership. I have

327
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Speaker 2: to say that people have mentioned this, but I think it's.

328
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Speaker 3: A pretty good deal.

329
00:12:42,250 --> 00:12:42,890
Speaker 1: Yeah.

330
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Speaker 3: 40 bucks for one full year. Oh, it's only for

331
00:12:46,270 --> 00:12:49,500
Speaker 3: a year. Yeah, that makes more sense. Because if you

332
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,410
Speaker 3: work it out like one of the great accountants of

333
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 3: the world, try not to shit on accountants anymore. It's

334
00:12:57,740 --> 00:12:58,140
Speaker 3: kind of you.

335
00:12:58,340 --> 00:13:02,719
Speaker 2: That works out to you paying about a quarter an episode.

336
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,050
Speaker 3: Yeah. One, a 25 cent piece for an episode of

337
00:13:06,090 --> 00:13:06,730
Speaker 3: this podcast.

338
00:13:06,770 --> 00:13:08,390
Speaker 4: And you get a t-shirt and an enamel pin and

339
00:13:08,410 --> 00:13:09,290
Speaker 4: you get to talk to Marty.

340
00:13:09,309 --> 00:13:10,750
Speaker 2: And you get to fucking talk to people and you

341
00:13:10,770 --> 00:13:12,530
Speaker 2: get to be there on the inside line when we

342
00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:14,930
Speaker 2: start doing actual shit that people care about.

343
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Speaker 4: And when we do like, why are we trying to listen?

344
00:13:18,020 --> 00:13:19,320
Speaker 4: Do or don't, there's no try.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

346
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:19,660
Speaker 4: Yeah.

347
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:26,360
Speaker 3: And we wrote that, George Locus, not you. That's mine.

348
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,610
Speaker 3: That's mine. Do or don't, there's no truth. You know,

349
00:13:30,660 --> 00:13:31,710
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, may.

350
00:13:33,390 --> 00:13:34,180
Speaker 4: The force be with you.

351
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:36,890
Speaker 3: We're not here to make friends, The Bachelor. I'm too

352
00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:37,470
Speaker 3: old for this shit.

353
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Speaker 1: All right.

354
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Speaker 4: Okay, so last episode was a live one from Dublin.

355
00:13:41,490 --> 00:13:42,390
Speaker 4: Do you want to go first or do you want

356
00:13:42,410 --> 00:13:44,210
Speaker 4: me to go first? Whatever you want, I'll do it.

357
00:13:44,290 --> 00:13:45,209
Speaker 4: How's your, what's yours?

358
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:47,180
Speaker 3: Weird.

359
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:48,380
Speaker 4: Mine's dark.

360
00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 3: Okay. Is yours solved?

361
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:52,500
Speaker 4: Yes.

362
00:13:52,820 --> 00:13:53,080
Speaker 1: Okay.

363
00:13:53,260 --> 00:13:53,860
Speaker 4: I'm going to go first then.

364
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:54,900
Speaker 3: Okay. Is that okay?

365
00:13:55,059 --> 00:13:55,219
Speaker 4: Yeah.

366
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Speaker 3: Because then we'll have a good ending.

367
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

368
00:13:57,620 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 4: Because mine isn't.

369
00:13:59,660 --> 00:14:00,939
Speaker 3: Do you mind if I get a cup of coffee?

370
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:01,760
Speaker 1: No.

371
00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say, do you mind

372
00:14:03,580 --> 00:14:04,300
Speaker 3: if I guess what it is?

373
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,339
Speaker 2: Do you mind if I guess what the solution to

374
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:07,940
Speaker 2: your crime is?

375
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,300
Speaker 1: And we're back. And the crazy thing to me is

376
00:14:15,370 --> 00:14:17,710
Speaker 1: that the day this came out, the next day was

377
00:14:17,770 --> 00:14:18,390
Speaker 1: my 38th birthday.

378
00:14:18,410 --> 00:14:18,570
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow.

379
00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:22,910
Speaker 1: How do we feel about that? I was a child.

380
00:14:23,070 --> 00:14:25,290
Speaker 3: I mean, that sounds insanely young.

381
00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:28,530
Speaker 1: I know. We've really overstayed our welcome.

382
00:14:28,730 --> 00:14:33,100
Speaker 3: We have beyond belief. We have. We've aged ourself out

383
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 3: of this entire conversation.

384
00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:36,860
Speaker 1: Truly, truly.

385
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,470
Speaker 2: It's, yeah, that is so weird. Also, like in the beginning,

386
00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:43,460
Speaker 2: we're distracted constantly. because there's a farting sound?

387
00:14:43,740 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

388
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 3: What was, do you remember any of that?

389
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,870
Speaker 1: I don't know, but was that when one of our

390
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:50,790
Speaker 1: throats made that sound that got awful, like in your

391
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:54,670
Speaker 1: throat burping noise that's so embarrassing? I think it was that.

392
00:14:54,690 --> 00:14:57,330
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, when you, when it's like a, it's almost

393
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:59,630
Speaker 2: like a little bubble, like a cartoon bubble sound.

394
00:14:59,830 --> 00:15:00,310
Speaker 1: Yeah.

395
00:15:00,630 --> 00:15:04,950
Speaker 2: I can't believe that series of Howard's End is that

396
00:15:05,050 --> 00:15:07,730
Speaker 2: long ago. I fucking, like I was looking at that,

397
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:09,850
Speaker 2: I would have told you that That show came out

398
00:15:09,890 --> 00:15:10,530
Speaker 2: three years ago.

399
00:15:10,730 --> 00:15:13,270
Speaker 1: I still haven't watched that. Is that adjacent to Pride

400
00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:13,910
Speaker 1: and Prejudice?

401
00:15:14,290 --> 00:15:17,250
Speaker 2: Vibe-wise, it will be similar because it's a period piece.

402
00:15:17,830 --> 00:15:19,010
Speaker 2: It's really good.

403
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:25,300
Speaker 3: And our boy, Matthew McFadden, Mr. Darcy, is the husband

404
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,920
Speaker 3: in it. But he's very different and he's amazing.

405
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,180
Speaker 1: He's punk rock in this one?

406
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:34,530
Speaker 3: He's got a mohawk. It's crazy he plays the guitar.

407
00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:39,170
Speaker 3: But it's Edwardian England. Okay.

408
00:15:39,370 --> 00:15:39,590
Speaker 1: Yeah.

409
00:15:39,710 --> 00:15:42,810
Speaker 2: But it's a really well done series. It's just a

410
00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:44,030
Speaker 2: very well... It's really good.

411
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:46,430
Speaker 1: Okay. Vince and I have surprised ourselves by being into

412
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:47,410
Speaker 1: this kind of thing lately.

413
00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:49,030
Speaker 4: So... Yes. I'm down.

414
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:50,430
Speaker 3: Let me give you my list.

415
00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:56,359
Speaker 1: Please. Oh, the fan cult is still thriving, everyone. And

416
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 1: you're not going to believe this. We're now and always

417
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:00,140
Speaker 1: accepting new members.

418
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:00,520
Speaker 3: I mean.

419
00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 2: It started just like a hope, a prayer, and a dream,

420
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:06,979
Speaker 2: and it's still going strong at fancult.supercast.com.

421
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 3: Go be a part of it.

422
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

423
00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: Membership includes ad-free audio and video content that we make

424
00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:17,700
Speaker 1: and love, merch and pre-sales and fan features. So check

425
00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:18,260
Speaker 1: that out.

426
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 3: How about an example?

427
00:16:19,660 --> 00:16:22,630
Speaker 2: There's a video of us making our favorite after-school snacks

428
00:16:22,930 --> 00:16:26,670
Speaker 2: as children. We're doing the stuff that is important.

429
00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 3: For 2026.

430
00:16:27,390 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 1: That you've been asking for since 2018. That's right.

431
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 3: It's all happening over there.

432
00:16:32,380 --> 00:16:34,460
Speaker 1: And yes, my dad is still a member of the

433
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:34,940
Speaker 1: fan cult.

434
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 3: Is he? Is Marty still in?

435
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:37,420
Speaker 1: Of course.

436
00:16:38,020 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 3: He didn't quit?

437
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 1: No. Well, he hasn't mentioned it in a while, but.

438
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,690
Speaker 2: My dad actually texted me because he was like, your

439
00:16:47,770 --> 00:16:50,590
Speaker 2: aunt said she saw you on Netflix and it was good.

440
00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:52,350
Speaker 3: I was just like, well, maybe.

441
00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:55,770
Speaker 1: That last part was unnecessary.

442
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 4: Wow.

443
00:16:58,340 --> 00:17:00,640
Speaker 2: I love my Aunt Jo. She's like one of my,

444
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,890
Speaker 2: I mean, great aunts, but my Aunt Jo is the best.

445
00:17:04,070 --> 00:17:07,310
Speaker 2: And she texted me the nicest text because she watched

446
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:08,690
Speaker 2: an episode on Netflix.

447
00:17:09,310 --> 00:17:11,050
Speaker 3: And it was so sweet. And then it's like, it

448
00:17:11,130 --> 00:17:12,510
Speaker 3: got back to my dad.

449
00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:13,870
Speaker 1: That's so cute.

450
00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:15,540
Speaker 3: I just like see other people like it.

451
00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:17,810
Speaker 1: I got a bunch of texts from my aunties talking

452
00:17:17,869 --> 00:17:21,709
Speaker 1: about CBS Sunday Morning and being like, imagine my surprise

453
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,780
Speaker 1: when I turned on my favorite show and there you were.

454
00:17:25,020 --> 00:17:26,680
Speaker 3: People love that show.

455
00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:27,500
Speaker 1: I know.

456
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:28,200
Speaker 3: They love it.

457
00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:31,060
Speaker 1: Obsessed. Obsessed. Well, should we get into it? I really,

458
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,060
Speaker 1: my story this week is just one of those that,

459
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,860
Speaker 1: I mean, oh, it sticks with you and why isn't

460
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:36,500
Speaker 1: it solved yet?

461
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a crazy cold case from Australia. Here's George's

462
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:42,380
Speaker 3: story about Mr. Cruel.

463
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:51,090
Speaker 4: All right. All right. We're back.

464
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,290
Speaker 3: We're back with coffee.

465
00:17:52,330 --> 00:17:53,070
Speaker 4: You're coffeed.

466
00:17:54,109 --> 00:17:56,970
Speaker 2: I'm just, it's less for the caffeine and more just

467
00:17:57,010 --> 00:17:59,830
Speaker 2: to brown my teeth down a tiny bit more.

468
00:18:00,970 --> 00:18:04,270
Speaker 3: You just got to get that perfect mocha. I'm tanning

469
00:18:04,290 --> 00:18:06,090
Speaker 3: my teeth. Tanning my teeth.

470
00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 4: All right. Okay.

471
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

472
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:10,500
Speaker 4: Listen.

473
00:18:10,940 --> 00:18:11,120
Speaker 2: Look.

474
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,899
Speaker 3: It's finally fucking time to look and listen. Okay. To Mr.

475
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:16,180
Speaker 1: Cruel.

476
00:18:16,660 --> 00:18:17,919
Speaker 4: Oh, fuck. I know.

477
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 3: Good, good one.

478
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:20,179
Speaker 4: I know, right?

479
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 3: It hit me. Yeah.

480
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 4: I'd been starting it forever. And then just with this

481
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:27,020
Speaker 4: whole Golden State Killer thing, which I'm sure everyone is

482
00:18:27,060 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 4: sick of hearing us talk about.

483
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,820
Speaker 3: Who cares? Fuck them.

484
00:18:30,619 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 2: I'll never stop talking about it. I'll never stop. But wait,

485
00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:36,940
Speaker 2: are you starting with this?

486
00:18:36,980 --> 00:18:42,580
Speaker 3: Because the The first piece of news, the day of

487
00:18:42,619 --> 00:18:44,360
Speaker 3: the arrest or the day before the arrest?

488
00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:47,979
Speaker 4: The day that it was announced that the Golden State Killer,

489
00:18:48,180 --> 00:18:50,300
Speaker 4: a suspect, had been apprehended.

490
00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:54,350
Speaker 2: So it wasn't even like, yeah, go ahead. Maybe it

491
00:18:54,369 --> 00:18:58,670
Speaker 2: was in your story. Because I have Golden State Killer

492
00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 2: and Eron's. on my Google Alerts. So I get those

493
00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:03,739
Speaker 2: news things whenever they come out.

494
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:04,060
Speaker 3: Cool.

495
00:19:04,380 --> 00:19:07,180
Speaker 2: And it was just a news piece that said, is

496
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,820
Speaker 2: the Golden State Killer Mr.

497
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 1: Cruel?

498
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,700
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's weird. Just out of the blue.

499
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,070
Speaker 2: Somebody's just like asking that question. And then it was like.

500
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,990
Speaker 3: Several hours later where they're like, they have a DNA.

501
00:19:17,330 --> 00:19:20,510
Speaker 4: Right. So, but also they were like Golden State Killer

502
00:19:20,590 --> 00:19:23,830
Speaker 4: linked to Mr. Cruel, which was really exciting. The thought

503
00:19:23,850 --> 00:19:26,870
Speaker 4: of killing like two birds, I guess that's a bad

504
00:19:26,910 --> 00:19:28,870
Speaker 4: way of saying it, of like fucking catching these two

505
00:19:28,990 --> 00:19:34,869
Speaker 4: elusive You know, I'd say equally fucking traumatic cases at

506
00:19:34,890 --> 00:19:36,179
Speaker 4: the same time would have been awesome.

507
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,859
Speaker 3: Didn't happen. But we'll talk about that. I won't talk

508
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 3: a lot about that.

509
00:19:40,180 --> 00:19:44,290
Speaker 2: Actually would have been beyond crazy because it's like Golden

510
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:47,690
Speaker 2: State Killer in and of itself is mind-blowingly crazy.

511
00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:49,850
Speaker 3: And then the idea of that.

512
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:53,379
Speaker 2: Where it's like, then you're just pulling down all kinds

513
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:55,020
Speaker 2: of cases.

514
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 3: So Mr.

515
00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:59,820
Speaker 4: Cruel, I want to say it was similar- But, you know,

516
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,060
Speaker 4: of what it did to the public. But I think

517
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 4: it's Golden State Killer was so little known and it

518
00:20:05,140 --> 00:20:08,729
Speaker 4: wasn't known his scope until much later. Right. So it's

519
00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:10,610
Speaker 4: hard to say that. But this is one of those

520
00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:16,380
Speaker 4: cases where. It changed life in the suburbs in Melbourne's

521
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,669
Speaker 4: outer reaches forever in the 80s. One of those, oh,

522
00:20:19,710 --> 00:20:21,550
Speaker 4: the 80s are fucked up. We can't let our kids

523
00:20:21,570 --> 00:20:27,300
Speaker 4: play outside. It just left a fucking indelible scar on that.

524
00:20:27,420 --> 00:20:28,220
Speaker 3: Did that sound smart?

525
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:28,919
Speaker 1: It did sound smart.

526
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 4: Indelible?

527
00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:29,620
Speaker 3: Good.

528
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 4: All right. There we go. I didn't make up a word.

529
00:20:33,770 --> 00:20:34,170
Speaker 3: You didn't.

530
00:20:34,290 --> 00:20:35,379
Speaker 4: You used it.

531
00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:36,570
Speaker 3: You used it correctly.

532
00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: Thank you.

533
00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:39,820
Speaker 3: And you didn't even stop until the end. Yeah, I

534
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,160
Speaker 3: didn't even question myself until the end. Until the end.

535
00:20:42,770 --> 00:20:46,030
Speaker 4: All right. Here we go. In the late 80s. to

536
00:20:46,090 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 4: early 90s in the suburbs of Melbourne, Australia, a serial

537
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,260
Speaker 4: pedophile rapist known as Mr. Cruel was fucking traumatizing everyone.

538
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,670
Speaker 4: All right, here we go. So on December 27th, 1988,

539
00:20:58,670 --> 00:21:01,710
Speaker 4: in Ringwood, which is a working class suburb of Melbourne,

540
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:05,350
Speaker 4: at about 5.30 a.m., a man wearing a blue ski

541
00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:08,330
Speaker 4: mask and dark blue overalls breaks into the home of

542
00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 4: John and Julie Wills, where they live with their four daughters. Oh.

543
00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:15,310
Speaker 4: um he first goes to the parents bedroom and puts

544
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:19,270
Speaker 4: a gun to mr will's temple julie starts screaming to

545
00:21:19,310 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 4: her daughters to fucking run for it oh could.

546
00:21:22,450 --> 00:21:24,860
Speaker 3: You imagine waking up to your mother screaming run.

547
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,460
Speaker 4: Yes no i can't please he tells her to stop

548
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 4: screaming and asks uh he tells her to stop screaming

549
00:21:31,220 --> 00:21:32,859
Speaker 4: and asks the dad if he's going to be a

550
00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:36,180
Speaker 4: hero Um, which is such a fucking threatening thing to

551
00:21:36,220 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 4: ask someone. He forces them to lie face down on

552
00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:40,940
Speaker 4: their bed and ties them up with copper wire. He,

553
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,580
Speaker 4: he tells them, and this is one of his ruses

554
00:21:43,859 --> 00:21:46,649
Speaker 4: that I'm just here for money. So they're more compliant.

555
00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:49,270
Speaker 4: So they let them, uh, they let him tie them

556
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:53,470
Speaker 4: up and, um, they take them $ 35. The span takes

557
00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:57,980
Speaker 4: $ 35 from a nightstand. And, uh, then this man heads

558
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,179
Speaker 4: for the kid's room. cuts the telephone cables, goes in

559
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,370
Speaker 4: the bedroom where 10-year-old Sharon and her siblings are sleeping.

560
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:08,290
Speaker 4: I know. Okay, this is fucked up and horrible and

561
00:22:08,350 --> 00:22:10,510
Speaker 4: children are involved and it's, you know.

562
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 3: But also it's one of the most famous cases out

563
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 3: of Australia.

564
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:17,530
Speaker 2: And when we were there... people would talk to us

565
00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:18,910
Speaker 2: about it all the time and it was like for

566
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:21,980
Speaker 2: live shows you just can't do these this is the

567
00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: kind of one you can only do on.

568
00:22:23,540 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 4: A show no one forgets these and the horrible you

569
00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:28,210
Speaker 4: know it's like the Adam Walsh one for us it's

570
00:22:28,270 --> 00:22:31,570
Speaker 4: not solved and it's fucking insane and very solvable yeah

571
00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:35,820
Speaker 4: maybe okay So Sharon.

572
00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: Is a 10-year-old.

573
00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:39,379
Speaker 4: She's a quiet girl. She plays a lot of musical instruments.

574
00:22:39,619 --> 00:22:43,110
Speaker 4: She sings in the Victoria's Children's Choir. He addresses her

575
00:22:43,170 --> 00:22:46,770
Speaker 4: by name, which he maybe knew because their house had

576
00:22:46,790 --> 00:22:49,850
Speaker 4: been featured in the newspaper six months earlier after the

577
00:22:49,890 --> 00:22:52,850
Speaker 4: home caught on fire or maybe from being in the choir.

578
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:55,790
Speaker 4: But that thing of like you see a child in

579
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:58,590
Speaker 4: the newspaper and these fucking– like we should stop printing

580
00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:00,230
Speaker 4: children's names in newspapers maybe.

581
00:23:00,310 --> 00:23:02,889
Speaker 3: I mean, if only that would solve it.

582
00:23:03,630 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 4: Correct. Yes, you were right. So he lifts Sharon from

583
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,379
Speaker 4: her bunk, blindfolds and gags her. And after grabbing a

584
00:23:12,420 --> 00:23:15,660
Speaker 4: few items of Sharon's clothing, he leaves the home with her.

585
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 3: It takes Mr. and Mrs.

586
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,300
Speaker 4: Willis 15 minutes to get free. They see that their

587
00:23:21,380 --> 00:23:24,540
Speaker 4: daughter's missing and their phone cord's been cut. They go

588
00:23:24,580 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 4: next door, wake up the neighbors and they call the police.

589
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:30,220
Speaker 4: There's no trace of Sharon and no witnesses could be found.

590
00:23:31,150 --> 00:23:33,590
Speaker 4: They have press conferences. The cops are going crazy to

591
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:38,150
Speaker 4: find her. 18 hours later, just after midnight, a woman

592
00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:42,100
Speaker 4: finds Sharon standing on a street corner. I forgot to

593
00:23:42,140 --> 00:23:45,460
Speaker 4: fucking translate this. Six kilometers from her home, which I

594
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,500
Speaker 4: think is just a couple miles.

595
00:23:46,780 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 3: Right.

596
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,810
Speaker 4: I think it's like three miles or so.

597
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

598
00:23:49,730 --> 00:23:52,230
Speaker 4: So she's three miles from home. She's wearing a man's

599
00:23:52,369 --> 00:23:54,950
Speaker 4: shirt and wrapped in garbage bags.

600
00:23:54,990 --> 00:23:55,530
Speaker 3: She's alive.

601
00:23:55,550 --> 00:23:56,030
Speaker 4: Oh, my God.

602
00:23:57,180 --> 00:23:57,790
Speaker 3: But she's alive.

603
00:23:57,810 --> 00:23:59,889
Speaker 4: And in a calm voice, she says to the woman,

604
00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:02,470
Speaker 4: my name's Sharon Wills. And I was taken from the home,

605
00:24:02,530 --> 00:24:05,650
Speaker 4: my home early this morning, a man left me here

606
00:24:05,730 --> 00:24:07,410
Speaker 4: and told me to go and ring home.

607
00:24:08,330 --> 00:24:09,109
Speaker 3: This woman was.

608
00:24:09,030 --> 00:24:10,060
Speaker 4: Like, what the fuck?

609
00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:10,450
Speaker 3: Yeah.

610
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: Um, she described Sharon as being brave and calm and

611
00:24:16,060 --> 00:24:19,580
Speaker 4: police were called and Sharon is brought home. Uh, she

612
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 4: had been blindfolded throughout her whole 18 hour ordeal. So

613
00:24:23,180 --> 00:24:25,450
Speaker 4: she couldn't describe her attacker, but she was able to

614
00:24:25,470 --> 00:24:28,710
Speaker 4: give them many other details. about her time in captivity.

615
00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:30,909
Speaker 4: The man had taken her to a house and sexually

616
00:24:30,930 --> 00:24:35,260
Speaker 4: assaulted her. She said he was occasionally gruff, but mostly

617
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 4: soft-spoken and seemed to be caring. And she even used

618
00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:42,140
Speaker 4: the word gentle, which is so fucking creepy. He gave

619
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,500
Speaker 4: her a glass of milk and a Vegemite sandwich and

620
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 4: some lemonade. So he was like feeding her and caretaking her.

621
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,570
Speaker 4: Before he let her go, though, he made her shower thoroughly.

622
00:24:52,270 --> 00:24:54,390
Speaker 3: He brushed and flushed her teeth thoroughly.

623
00:24:55,420 --> 00:24:59,370
Speaker 4: And he trimmed and cleaned her nails thoroughly washing away

624
00:24:59,650 --> 00:25:02,330
Speaker 4: any forensic evidence so clearly he was aware of what

625
00:25:02,590 --> 00:25:03,850
Speaker 4: even in 1988 he was.

626
00:25:03,890 --> 00:25:06,430
Speaker 3: Which then i just go cop cop.

627
00:25:06,210 --> 00:25:08,510
Speaker 4: Cop right it's what everyone fucking thinks like he'd lay

628
00:25:08,530 --> 00:25:11,090
Speaker 4: a sheet down on the bathroom floor make her stand

629
00:25:11,170 --> 00:25:13,729
Speaker 4: on it after the bath and and like dressed her

630
00:25:13,780 --> 00:25:16,300
Speaker 4: there like wouldn't even let her feet hit the ground

631
00:25:16,380 --> 00:25:22,050
Speaker 4: wow um And she describes to police how he made

632
00:25:22,090 --> 00:25:24,530
Speaker 4: her stand in a large plastic garbage bag, which he

633
00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:27,230
Speaker 4: pulled up and taped to her shoulders, put another bag

634
00:25:27,270 --> 00:25:29,730
Speaker 4: over her head and taped it to her body before

635
00:25:29,770 --> 00:25:32,250
Speaker 4: cutting out a small hole for her face and then

636
00:25:32,270 --> 00:25:34,070
Speaker 4: dropped her off a few miles from her house, telling

637
00:25:34,109 --> 00:25:35,860
Speaker 4: her to walk to the nearest house to call home.

638
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,620
Speaker 4: So a hundred dollar, no, a hundred thousand dollar reward

639
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 4: is offered for information on Sharon's abduction. This is the

640
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 4: first reward offered in an abduction case in the state's history.

641
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:50,530
Speaker 4: So they'd never offered a reward before. There were a

642
00:25:50,550 --> 00:25:54,410
Speaker 4: couple of suspects, but nobody panned out. His next abduction

643
00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:59,210
Speaker 4: took place 18 months later on July 3rd, 1990 in Canterbury,

644
00:25:59,710 --> 00:26:03,230
Speaker 4: just over 10 miles from Sharon's house. It's an affluent suburb.

645
00:26:03,930 --> 00:26:09,430
Speaker 4: A 13-year-old girl, Nicola Linus, and her 15-year-old sister, Fiona,

646
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:12,189
Speaker 4: their home alone in their family's rented house where their

647
00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:14,649
Speaker 4: parents were out And they were only supposed to be

648
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:17,310
Speaker 4: gone for like two hours. So police think that this

649
00:26:17,369 --> 00:26:22,090
Speaker 4: guy was canvassing the area. The Linus family was moving

650
00:26:22,150 --> 00:26:25,610
Speaker 4: back to England after the father's three-year transfer had ended

651
00:26:25,650 --> 00:26:29,109
Speaker 4: for his job at Price Waterhouse. So they were packed

652
00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:30,750
Speaker 4: and they were ready to leave within a few days.

653
00:26:30,770 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 4: And the party where the parents were at was a

654
00:26:35,450 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 4: farewell party for them. Nicola is described by her parents

655
00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:42,659
Speaker 4: as a hardworking girl, one of the top students. At

656
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:45,820
Speaker 4: about 11.30 p.m., both girls are shaken awake by a

657
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 4: masked man armed with a long knife and a handgun

658
00:26:49,180 --> 00:26:52,020
Speaker 4: who had crept through a weird window of the house

659
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:56,179
Speaker 4: wearing a black ski mask. 15-year-old Fiona is tied up

660
00:26:56,260 --> 00:26:59,820
Speaker 4: and left on her bed, while 13-year-old Nicola is forced

661
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,420
Speaker 4: into another room and told to gather her school uniform, blazer, tunic,

662
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,409
Speaker 4: and runners. Those are her shoes. Yeah.

663
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:09,109
Speaker 3: For those not from Australia.

664
00:27:09,130 --> 00:27:09,230
Speaker 2: Yeah.

665
00:27:10,510 --> 00:27:12,010
Speaker 3: Before leaving with her, Mr.

666
00:27:12,130 --> 00:27:15,230
Speaker 4: Cruel tells Fiona to tell her father that he would

667
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 4: release Nicola unhurt if they paid a $ 25, 000 ransom. So Mr.

668
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 4: Cruel then walks Nicola out of the house and steals

669
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:29,370
Speaker 4: Linus's family rented car and fucking takes off in that car.

670
00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:31,590
Speaker 3: So Mr.

671
00:27:31,609 --> 00:27:33,669
Speaker 4: And Mrs. Linus arrived home about 30 minutes later. They

672
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:38,090
Speaker 4: find Fiona on her bed tied up. A massive search begins.

673
00:27:38,609 --> 00:27:38,950
Speaker 3: And Mr.

674
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:41,450
Speaker 4: Linus spoke in a press conference and offered the ransom money,

675
00:27:41,490 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 4: but Mr. Cool didn't reach out. They couldn't get ahold

676
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,140
Speaker 4: of him.

677
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: He's full of shit.

678
00:27:45,460 --> 00:27:47,500
Speaker 4: It was another fucking red herring. So they would look

679
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,620
Speaker 4: into his, his business dealings, all of that shit. Oh, right. Um,

680
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 4: and be distracted by something else. Just like in the

681
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 4: past one where they were like, he was there for money.

682
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,350
Speaker 4: He was stealing shit.

683
00:27:58,650 --> 00:27:58,850
Speaker 3: Right?

684
00:27:59,030 --> 00:28:06,090
Speaker 4: No. Um, Instead, they found the rented car a couple

685
00:28:06,130 --> 00:28:08,030
Speaker 4: blocks away. So he had just driven it to his

686
00:28:08,109 --> 00:28:13,790
Speaker 4: car as another like way to throw off police. The

687
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:19,940
Speaker 4: following day, Nicola is left alive beside an electric, an

688
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 4: electricity substation in queue about three miles from her home

689
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 4: just before 2 a.m.

690
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: She's fully clothed. She's wrapped in a blanket. It was

691
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:28,740
Speaker 3: her 14th birthday.

692
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:28,820
Speaker 2: Oh.

693
00:28:30,010 --> 00:28:31,750
Speaker 4: She went home and called her father. She went to

694
00:28:31,790 --> 00:28:34,270
Speaker 4: a home and called her father. So she had been

695
00:28:34,290 --> 00:28:38,270
Speaker 4: gone for 50 hours. Shit. She tells police about her,

696
00:28:38,410 --> 00:28:41,270
Speaker 4: that her abductor had driven her to the area. And

697
00:28:41,310 --> 00:28:43,330
Speaker 4: then when he was taking her back, he had driven

698
00:28:43,370 --> 00:28:44,950
Speaker 4: her there, walked her around a little to kind of

699
00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:47,209
Speaker 4: to confuse her while her eyes are taped shut, made

700
00:28:47,250 --> 00:28:49,170
Speaker 4: her sit with her head between her legs and took off.

701
00:28:49,290 --> 00:28:50,890
Speaker 4: And he was gone by the time she removed her

702
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:55,190
Speaker 4: blindfold that she had been wearing for 50 fucking hours.

703
00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:57,430
Speaker 4: She told police that she was masked and bound throughout

704
00:28:57,470 --> 00:29:00,790
Speaker 4: the ordeal and but was not threatened with violence. She

705
00:29:00,810 --> 00:29:02,870
Speaker 4: had been given food and drink. She had described her

706
00:29:02,890 --> 00:29:07,410
Speaker 4: attacker as affectionate and chummy. Like, what a fucking psychopath

707
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:08,660
Speaker 4: this dude is.

708
00:29:08,730 --> 00:29:11,650
Speaker 2: Also, it's making me think of Paul Holes on Twitter.

709
00:29:12,010 --> 00:29:14,710
Speaker 2: Somebody said, do you think that the East Area Rapist

710
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,260
Speaker 2: or the Golden State Killer could also be this case?

711
00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:25,780
Speaker 2: And they brought up some other Northern California maybe.

712
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,780
Speaker 3: It was the I-5 Strangler, just somebody, another case.

713
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:29,980
Speaker 2: And then he was talking about The difference between the M.O.s.

714
00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: One is. Yeah, I remember this like one is a

715
00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:35,830
Speaker 2: friendly person and one is. Stroking the hair, pretending that

716
00:29:35,870 --> 00:29:37,230
Speaker 2: it's a consensual situation.

717
00:29:37,230 --> 00:29:37,530
Speaker 4: Exactly.

718
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:40,890
Speaker 3: And then Golden State Killer is a sadist.

719
00:29:40,930 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 4: Aggressive sadist.

720
00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:45,580
Speaker 3: A sexual sadist and a psychological asshole. Leave that in.

721
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,540
Speaker 3: I mean, what if we... You say stuff and then

722
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 3: I'll just read Paul Holt's Twitter.

723
00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:53,780
Speaker 4: How about from now on, your stories are always just

724
00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:54,980
Speaker 4: you reading Paul Holt's Twitter?

725
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

726
00:29:58,090 --> 00:29:59,190
Speaker 3: I might have to go to therapy.

727
00:30:00,610 --> 00:30:04,450
Speaker 4: More therapy. More therapy. He calls her Missy during fantasy

728
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:07,210
Speaker 4: games he played with her. She said he was meticulous

729
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:10,110
Speaker 4: in covering his forensic tracks. And she also told him

730
00:30:10,150 --> 00:30:12,690
Speaker 4: that he had watched the press conference where her father

731
00:30:12,730 --> 00:30:15,229
Speaker 4: had spoke with her in the room and he was

732
00:30:15,330 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 4: commenting on it to Nicola about it. Like, can you

733
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,820
Speaker 4: imagine being a kidnapped person and you're in the room

734
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 4: where your father's pleading for your fucking return and he's

735
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,940
Speaker 4: just like commenting on it? That's so dark. It's so dark.

736
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: It must.

737
00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:31,209
Speaker 2: It's so disorienting and upsetting anyway. And then and then

738
00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:34,030
Speaker 2: you're just kind of like you're through the looking glass.

739
00:30:34,090 --> 00:30:34,810
Speaker 3: I think that like.

740
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 4: I think at some point in the past 10 years,

741
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 4: it hit me how terrifying being blindfolded must be.

742
00:30:40,570 --> 00:30:40,770
Speaker 2: Yeah.

743
00:30:40,790 --> 00:30:42,730
Speaker 3: So it kind of gives me a panic attack whenever

744
00:30:42,750 --> 00:30:43,510
Speaker 3: I think about that.

745
00:30:43,690 --> 00:30:43,910
Speaker 2: Yeah.

746
00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:46,610
Speaker 4: So that and then to be hearing what's going on

747
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:50,110
Speaker 4: on the TV, too, has to be so scary. And OK,

748
00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:54,770
Speaker 4: it was then reported. So then the cops at this point,

749
00:30:54,790 --> 00:30:57,910
Speaker 4: the police are able to connect these two cases, Sharon

750
00:30:57,950 --> 00:31:02,150
Speaker 4: and Nicola's. And they didn't make this public. They connected

751
00:31:02,170 --> 00:31:04,580
Speaker 4: these two cases, and then they realized that there had

752
00:31:04,660 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 4: been another attack that they could link it to beforehand

753
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: in August of 1987. So this is the previous one,

754
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:17,610
Speaker 4: about an 11-year-old girl. She's never been named. At about

755
00:31:17,610 --> 00:31:21,970
Speaker 4: 4 a.m., wearing a mask and carrying a small handgun

756
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:24,850
Speaker 4: and a large hunting knife, he removes a window pane

757
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:27,969
Speaker 4: in the lounge of the house in a suburb. of

758
00:31:28,030 --> 00:31:29,450
Speaker 4: Lower Plenty is the name of the.

759
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:30,450
Speaker 3: Suburb of Melbourne.

760
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:32,350
Speaker 4: Remember when we were in Melbourne?

761
00:31:32,530 --> 00:31:32,950
Speaker 3: Remember.

762
00:31:32,970 --> 00:31:34,860
Speaker 4: And we were like, this is so cute here. No,

763
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:35,980
Speaker 4: it's a scary place.

764
00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: But they have such cute dresses. The best dresses. Okay.

765
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: So he first, again, and it's in a couple of

766
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,700
Speaker 4: these stories that I read online, it sounds like he

767
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,110
Speaker 4: went straight to the parents' room. Like he knew what

768
00:31:50,180 --> 00:31:52,290
Speaker 4: rooms everyone was in, meaning he canvassed it.

769
00:31:52,330 --> 00:31:54,970
Speaker 3: He's been chasing that shit. He's watching them. Exactly. Exactly.

770
00:31:55,570 --> 00:31:58,630
Speaker 4: So he wakes the parents and forces them to lie

771
00:31:58,650 --> 00:32:01,370
Speaker 4: on their stomachs, ties their hands and feet. He uses

772
00:32:01,530 --> 00:32:05,150
Speaker 4: expertly tied knots commonly used by sailors and those familiar

773
00:32:05,170 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 4: with securing loads. Again, the knots are, like, distinct. And

774
00:32:09,740 --> 00:32:12,130
Speaker 4: then he gags them and puts surgical tape over their

775
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:15,710
Speaker 4: eyes and locks them in their bedroom closet. He says,

776
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:19,050
Speaker 4: get into the wardrobe and sit down. All I want

777
00:32:19,090 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 4: is money. Liar. Liar.

778
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 3: So, like, of course, they're complicit.

779
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:24,460
Speaker 4: Complicit?

780
00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:25,780
Speaker 3: Complicit.

781
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 4: Compliant?

782
00:32:26,780 --> 00:32:27,380
Speaker 3: Compliant.

783
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: All of them.

784
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,050
Speaker 4: And complacent. And complacent. Because they're like, oh, he just

785
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:36,030
Speaker 4: wants money. I don't need to defend my family. Let's

786
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:38,450
Speaker 4: just go along with what he says. It's such a

787
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:41,810
Speaker 4: great ruse. Because if he were like, I just want

788
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:43,990
Speaker 4: to kill your daughter, they'd be like, fuck this shit.

789
00:32:44,030 --> 00:32:45,470
Speaker 4: I'm going to fight to the death.

790
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:45,770
Speaker 3: Right.

791
00:32:46,110 --> 00:32:46,410
Speaker 4: You know?

792
00:32:46,730 --> 00:32:47,370
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

793
00:32:47,410 --> 00:32:50,130
Speaker 2: There's an element of relaxation because it's like, he can

794
00:32:50,150 --> 00:32:52,050
Speaker 2: take anything he wants. That's what everyone says in that

795
00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:53,110
Speaker 2: horrible situation.

796
00:32:53,170 --> 00:32:54,510
Speaker 3: It's just like, who cares?

797
00:32:54,530 --> 00:32:55,170
Speaker 4: Take anything you want.

798
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:55,860
Speaker 3: Don't hurt us.

799
00:32:55,910 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 4: And he's like, I'm not gonna. I just want money.

800
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 4: So they go along with it, which is so evil.

801
00:33:01,510 --> 00:33:03,850
Speaker 4: And so there's the next thing that happens is their

802
00:33:03,890 --> 00:33:06,410
Speaker 4: six year old son is blindfolded and gagged and he's

803
00:33:06,450 --> 00:33:09,230
Speaker 4: tied to his bed. And then and remember, this is

804
00:33:09,410 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 4: the first known Mr.

805
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: Cruel attack.

806
00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:15,980
Speaker 4: Then he spends the next two hours in the house

807
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,790
Speaker 4: sexually assaulting the 11 year old daughter in the house.

808
00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:21,810
Speaker 4: He stays in the house. He doesn't kidnap her. So

809
00:33:22,090 --> 00:33:24,660
Speaker 4: if this is truly his first crime. attack, which we

810
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,740
Speaker 4: don't believe it is, of course, then he's he's clearly

811
00:33:28,060 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 4: with these other two cases that I already talked about escalating.

812
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:31,740
Speaker 2: Yeah.

813
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,050
Speaker 4: He takes them away and keeps them for longer and

814
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:36,370
Speaker 4: longer times. But in this one that happened before, he

815
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:38,990
Speaker 4: does it in the fucking house. He's in no hurry.

816
00:33:39,010 --> 00:33:41,229
Speaker 4: He even takes a break to make something to eat

817
00:33:41,260 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 4: in the kitchen. Just like the fucking Golden State Killer did.

818
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,620
Speaker 3: And I wonder, and I don't mean to like question

819
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:47,060
Speaker 3: you on this.

820
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:47,410
Speaker 1: Do it.

821
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: Well, if the knots are the same, if these knots

822
00:33:51,460 --> 00:33:53,140
Speaker 2: are even similar to the Golden State Killer knots.

823
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,490
Speaker 4: Well, remember, because he spent some time in the, maybe

824
00:33:56,850 --> 00:33:59,630
Speaker 4: in Australia. That's why they were wondering if he was,

825
00:34:00,550 --> 00:34:01,750
Speaker 4: had something to do with this case.

826
00:34:01,770 --> 00:34:02,330
Speaker 3: D'Angelo did?

827
00:34:02,390 --> 00:34:06,950
Speaker 4: Yeah. The Golden State Killer did. Joseph D'Angelo spent time

828
00:34:06,970 --> 00:34:09,050
Speaker 4: in the Navy in Australia. Shit. Yeah.

829
00:34:09,469 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 3: But in that time frame or before? Way before, like

830
00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:14,620
Speaker 3: in the late 60s. So he was familiar with it.

831
00:34:15,219 --> 00:34:18,620
Speaker 3: Going there wouldn't have been a weird thing for him. No, no, no, no, no.

832
00:34:18,700 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 4: But I wonder if those knots were taught in the Navy.

833
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 3: Oh, got it.

834
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 4: Or in Australia for some reason.

835
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

836
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,060
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

837
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:26,660
Speaker 3: Yes.

838
00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:29,009
Speaker 4: He also searched the home and he did steal a

839
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 4: box of classical records and a coat. But they think

840
00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:34,859
Speaker 4: that was a red herring, too. But I'm like, maybe

841
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 4: he's just fucking into classical records.

842
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,660
Speaker 2: Or maybe he's like one of those fucking weirdos that's

843
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: all grabby and like, I need something.

844
00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. This is the closest thing. So listen, girls and guys,

845
00:34:45,290 --> 00:34:48,109
Speaker 4: check your dad's record collection and see if he has

846
00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:50,910
Speaker 4: an errant box of classical music and then turn him

847
00:34:50,989 --> 00:34:52,170
Speaker 4: in to the Melbourne police.

848
00:34:52,469 --> 00:34:54,589
Speaker 3: Australian classical music. That's right.

849
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,180
Speaker 4: So the girl later told police that he had made

850
00:34:58,219 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 4: a phone call near her while she was tied up

851
00:35:01,340 --> 00:35:03,590
Speaker 4: and threatened another family with physical violence.

852
00:35:03,610 --> 00:35:04,130
Speaker 3: The fuck?

853
00:35:04,430 --> 00:35:05,989
Speaker 4: She said he told the person on the phone to

854
00:35:06,050 --> 00:35:08,170
Speaker 4: move their children or they would be in danger and

855
00:35:08,190 --> 00:35:11,969
Speaker 4: that he called the person he phoned Bozo. That was

856
00:35:12,010 --> 00:35:15,060
Speaker 4: one of his nicknames for people. But when police checked

857
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: the phone records, it revealed there was no phone call made.

858
00:35:18,060 --> 00:35:20,219
Speaker 4: So that was another red herring for her to tell

859
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,140
Speaker 4: them about that. But I don't understand that.

860
00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:23,350
Speaker 3: I don't believe it.

861
00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:26,060
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but that creeps me out worse

862
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 2: than everything.

863
00:35:26,860 --> 00:35:30,009
Speaker 3: Someone talking to nobody on the fake phone. Yes. I

864
00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:31,430
Speaker 3: hate that so much.

865
00:35:31,610 --> 00:35:34,989
Speaker 2: It's like, because I hate bad acting and you know,

866
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:37,890
Speaker 2: it was bad acting, but like, but that idea of

867
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:41,509
Speaker 2: I'm doing something like there's a control element to it.

868
00:35:41,530 --> 00:35:44,299
Speaker 4: I'm doing something and it's not for anyone, but this

869
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,229
Speaker 4: girl right here and the police who come and Yeah.

870
00:35:47,550 --> 00:35:49,340
Speaker 2: It's like a shock and awe thing. It's like you

871
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: don't know what's going on and then you more don't know.

872
00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:53,819
Speaker 4: What's going on. It's like it's a call was coming

873
00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:55,180
Speaker 4: from inside the house type of thing.

874
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

875
00:35:56,180 --> 00:35:58,660
Speaker 4: But then I'm like, could the phone records have been

876
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,980
Speaker 4: shitty back then? Because that doesn't make any sense.

877
00:36:02,420 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: Unless he's just trying to make this girl think that

878
00:36:04,910 --> 00:36:10,710
Speaker 2: he is a full time 24-7 criminal. you know rapist

879
00:36:10,830 --> 00:36:13,230
Speaker 2: threat that where it's like he's such a bad guy

880
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:15,670
Speaker 2: appointment i'm gonna i'm gonna go do my other thing.

881
00:36:15,489 --> 00:36:17,700
Speaker 4: Right right so they they think that was just a

882
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 4: red herring which was one of his stupid signatures this

883
00:36:21,860 --> 00:36:25,540
Speaker 4: fucking asshole okay so this connection made mr cruel a

884
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,820
Speaker 4: household name and um that the name mr cruel comes

885
00:36:30,180 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 4: now when he's described by victorian police in a late

886
00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:37,370
Speaker 4: Victoria police, not Victorian police, because that would be a

887
00:36:37,390 --> 00:36:38,450
Speaker 4: weird time traveling thing.

888
00:36:39,010 --> 00:36:42,330
Speaker 2: Jack the Ripper's investigators like, oh, and really, really quick,

889
00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:43,810
Speaker 2: there's going to be a future case.

890
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 3: No, that's not what happened.

891
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,500
Speaker 4: Victoria police in the late 80s described this guy in

892
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 4: the papers as super cool and super cruel. And so

893
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 4: some fucking smart out journalist was like, that's his name, Mr.

894
00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: Cruel. Wait, sorry.

895
00:37:01,739 --> 00:37:03,300
Speaker 3: Who would describe this guy as cool?

896
00:37:03,780 --> 00:37:06,540
Speaker 4: Like cool as in like cool as a cucumber. Like

897
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,930
Speaker 4: he's hung out at the house and shit. He's not

898
00:37:08,969 --> 00:37:10,049
Speaker 4: worried about getting caught.

899
00:37:10,090 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

900
00:37:10,930 --> 00:37:15,090
Speaker 3: Not like, you know, who's cool. Not like a... The Fonz?

901
00:37:15,350 --> 00:37:15,489
Speaker 2: Yeah.

902
00:37:15,790 --> 00:37:16,230
Speaker 4: There you go.

903
00:37:16,370 --> 00:37:16,730
Speaker 1: Thank you.

904
00:37:16,750 --> 00:37:20,169
Speaker 2: This is the only cool person I can think of.

905
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:20,910
Speaker 4: And you were right.

906
00:37:20,969 --> 00:37:23,570
Speaker 3: I was thinking of just the worst people. Okay. Name

907
00:37:23,810 --> 00:37:25,130
Speaker 3: one person you were thinking of.

908
00:37:25,850 --> 00:37:26,670
Speaker 4: I forgot already.

909
00:37:28,070 --> 00:37:29,299
Speaker 3: You know, Kato Kaelin.

910
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:29,780
Speaker 2: Okay.

911
00:37:33,050 --> 00:37:33,430
Speaker 4: Cool.

912
00:37:34,290 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 3: You know. You know the kind of guy you'd want

913
00:37:38,340 --> 00:37:42,100
Speaker 3: to talk to at a party. Kato Kaelin. You know.

914
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: What if it was Kato Kaelin? No, it's not. It's not,

915
00:37:45,140 --> 00:37:47,430
Speaker 3: and we're not suggesting it is. No, I met him.

916
00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:48,250
Speaker 4: Very nice person.

917
00:37:48,290 --> 00:37:51,850
Speaker 3: Very nice. Everyone says he's the nicest. And cool. And cool.

918
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:54,029
Speaker 3: That's one thing they say about him. Super cool.

919
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 4: Okay. So the police are now very concerned because and

920
00:37:58,820 --> 00:38:01,020
Speaker 4: the police, I want to give them credit. And the

921
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,379
Speaker 4: investigators were fucking on this shit hardcore from like from

922
00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:05,980
Speaker 4: get like they from get from get.

923
00:38:08,770 --> 00:38:10,350
Speaker 3: Except they fucked up a little bit, but I'll tell

924
00:38:10,370 --> 00:38:10,830
Speaker 3: you about that later.

925
00:38:10,969 --> 00:38:14,459
Speaker 4: Okay. So police are worried because the time lapse between

926
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: his attacks is decreasing while the time he holds his

927
00:38:17,739 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 4: victims is increasing. And so the police announced that they

928
00:38:21,420 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 4: believe Mr. Cruel to be responsible for at least six

929
00:38:24,340 --> 00:38:29,450
Speaker 4: attacks before this since 1984. So, but they didn't give descriptions,

930
00:38:29,530 --> 00:38:31,430
Speaker 4: but they did say that not all the victims were children,

931
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:33,609
Speaker 4: but they didn't like tell you which attacks they were,

932
00:38:33,650 --> 00:38:35,070
Speaker 4: but they think that he's escalating.

933
00:38:35,230 --> 00:38:37,730
Speaker 3: Yeah. And these other ones, these older ones fit his MO. Yeah.

934
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:40,900
Speaker 2: Also, the idea of children being the victim as an

935
00:38:40,969 --> 00:38:43,939
Speaker 2: escalation marker makes a lot of sense because it's like

936
00:38:44,540 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 2: to attack a person near you, to attack another adult

937
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:47,340
Speaker 2: or whatever.

938
00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:49,259
Speaker 3: But it is especially evil.

939
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: And disgusting and awful to be like, take a 10-year-old

940
00:38:54,060 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: out of their bed.

941
00:38:54,780 --> 00:38:57,690
Speaker 4: Absolutely. But you think that that wouldn't be the escalation

942
00:38:57,730 --> 00:39:01,130
Speaker 4: because you'd attack a kid first because they'd be easier

943
00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:04,489
Speaker 4: to handle than an adult. Maybe.

944
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:05,870
Speaker 3: Like a woman, an adult woman.

945
00:39:05,890 --> 00:39:06,529
Speaker 2: I know.

946
00:39:06,570 --> 00:39:06,670
Speaker 4: Yeah.

947
00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:07,270
Speaker 3: I mean, it's all.

948
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,820
Speaker 4: it's all listen don't do either look look and listen

949
00:39:11,980 --> 00:39:14,770
Speaker 4: don't do stop it crimes don't do crimes.

950
00:39:14,489 --> 00:39:16,469
Speaker 2: Oh oh are you the serial killer listening to this

951
00:39:16,510 --> 00:39:18,850
Speaker 2: podcast do us a favor and fucking knock it.

952
00:39:18,850 --> 00:39:21,910
Speaker 3: Off please get help you need help.

953
00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:24,489
Speaker 2: Or just go go into the woods for a while

954
00:39:24,510 --> 00:39:27,850
Speaker 2: yeah just stay away just don't do it please people

955
00:39:27,890 --> 00:39:30,890
Speaker 2: have plans they have fun stuff they want to do.

956
00:39:33,590 --> 00:39:36,250
Speaker 4: So because very little evidence is left behind because he's

957
00:39:36,290 --> 00:39:40,390
Speaker 4: so good at hiding his tracks, the investigation into finding

958
00:39:40,489 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 4: him is a total dead end, even though they're fucking

959
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 4: crazy looking. One piece of evidence that emerged in later

960
00:39:46,060 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 4: interviews with Sharon and Nicola is Was that both girls,

961
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: this is so fucking creepy, were called hearing low-flying planes

962
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 4: over the house where they were held captive. Oh, oh.

963
00:39:56,620 --> 00:39:58,580
Speaker 3: What do you think that meant? For a second, I

964
00:39:58,580 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 3: thought you meant that they'd heard low-flying planes, like, days before. Oh,

965
00:40:05,110 --> 00:40:08,610
Speaker 3: like he was a fucking parachuting into their house? In

966
00:40:08,630 --> 00:40:10,930
Speaker 3: a biplane, like, fucking recon.

967
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:12,830
Speaker 4: That would be so scary.

968
00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:15,509
Speaker 3: That would be horror. It's like... The Red Baron is

969
00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:16,410
Speaker 3: coming after you.

970
00:40:16,610 --> 00:40:18,489
Speaker 4: Oh, no. That's not what happened, though.

971
00:40:18,670 --> 00:40:19,830
Speaker 3: But that's actually, it's.

972
00:40:20,010 --> 00:40:22,250
Speaker 2: The other thing of you're blindfolded and so then you

973
00:40:22,270 --> 00:40:23,070
Speaker 2: can fucking hear it.

974
00:40:23,250 --> 00:40:26,570
Speaker 3: And you're traumatized. So you're listening to everything and you're,

975
00:40:26,730 --> 00:40:27,009
Speaker 3: you know.

976
00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:28,490
Speaker 4: And you're just laying there.

977
00:40:28,510 --> 00:40:30,210
Speaker 3: Oh, honeys.

978
00:40:30,250 --> 00:40:33,009
Speaker 4: Yeah. I feel so bad for them. So they hear

979
00:40:33,050 --> 00:40:36,810
Speaker 4: low-flying planes where they were held captive. Nicholas said that

980
00:40:36,830 --> 00:40:39,210
Speaker 4: it sounded like the planes were coming into land, which

981
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:42,430
Speaker 4: is like, girl, get it. Police worked with the Civil

982
00:40:42,510 --> 00:40:46,140
Speaker 4: Aviation Authority to pinpoint flight paths and based on the

983
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 4: description from the girl, based on the description from the

984
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 4: girls about the frequency and loudness of the flights.

985
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:54,740
Speaker 3: Which is so interesting that like every little detail counts.

986
00:40:54,780 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 4: You know, when everyone's like. Is there anything else you

987
00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:58,300
Speaker 4: can think of? I told you everything.

988
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,410
Speaker 3: It's like you just don't know what can matter. Yeah.

989
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,790
Speaker 3: So the so based.

990
00:41:02,610 --> 00:41:04,569
Speaker 4: On all of that, they determined that the girls had

991
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:08,730
Speaker 4: heard planes on the flight path to Tillamareen Airport.

992
00:41:08,969 --> 00:41:13,450
Speaker 3: So they like pinpointed the fucking airport near Melbourne. So Mr.

993
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:14,950
Speaker 3: Krull's final known attack.

994
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:18,270
Speaker 4: All right. This is fucking depressing. Mr. Krull's final known

995
00:41:18,310 --> 00:41:23,540
Speaker 4: attack takes place nine months after Nicola's attack on the evening.

996
00:41:23,340 --> 00:41:24,940
Speaker 3: Of Saturday, April 31st.

997
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 4: That's not right. April 13th, 1991, in Templestowe. It's a

998
00:41:30,380 --> 00:41:34,529
Speaker 4: high-end suburb of Melbourne, close to the other attacks. 13-year-old

999
00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:38,739
Speaker 4: Carmen Chan is home babysitting her two younger sisters. which

1000
00:41:38,780 --> 00:41:41,430
Speaker 4: is a totally normal occurrence as their parents worked long

1001
00:41:41,489 --> 00:41:44,770
Speaker 4: hours in the family's successful Chinese restaurant. It was just

1002
00:41:44,770 --> 00:41:48,469
Speaker 4: 10 minutes away. The Chans are a hardworking couple. They

1003
00:41:48,510 --> 00:41:52,259
Speaker 4: built a small restaurant and property development empire since migrating

1004
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,569
Speaker 4: from Hong Kong 16 years earlier. They worked like 15,

1005
00:41:56,570 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 4: 16 hours a day. Their home is described as being

1006
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 4: like a fortress, right? So it's an 18-room house, and

1007
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 4: it's protected by a two-meter fence with electric front gates.

1008
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 4: So they're not fucking around on security. So leaving their

1009
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 4: three daughters at home is not that big of a

1010
00:42:11,739 --> 00:42:16,430
Speaker 4: deal because they've taken measures. Carmen went to the same

1011
00:42:16,530 --> 00:42:20,250
Speaker 4: school as Nicola, which is a weird coincidence. Or is

1012
00:42:20,350 --> 00:42:22,989
Speaker 4: it a red flag herring? We don't know.

1013
00:42:23,010 --> 00:42:25,750
Speaker 3: Is it a herring wrapped in a flag? A red

1014
00:42:25,790 --> 00:42:28,990
Speaker 3: flag herring is a new thing. Okay.

1015
00:42:29,770 --> 00:42:34,050
Speaker 4: Carmen's principal describes her as charming, polite, enthusiastic, and lovely.

1016
00:42:34,410 --> 00:42:37,549
Speaker 4: She had a large group of friends and was extremely hardworking.

1017
00:42:39,230 --> 00:42:42,450
Speaker 4: So the sisters are watching a documentary about Marilyn Monroe

1018
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:46,690
Speaker 4: in Carmen's bedroom when around 9 p.m., the two older sisters,

1019
00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:48,790
Speaker 4: Carmen and the sister, decide to go to the kitchen,

1020
00:42:48,890 --> 00:42:51,930
Speaker 4: but they're stopped in the hallway by a strange man

1021
00:42:52,050 --> 00:42:53,830
Speaker 4: in a balaclava.

1022
00:42:54,130 --> 00:42:54,210
Speaker 2: Ugh.

1023
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:59,020
Speaker 4: And he's carrying a large knife. Now, you've seen this fucking...

1024
00:42:59,489 --> 00:43:03,210
Speaker 4: Drawing of the balaclava that's supposedly handmade and has these

1025
00:43:03,290 --> 00:43:05,950
Speaker 4: crazy white stitches around the eyes and around the mouth.

1026
00:43:06,070 --> 00:43:06,850
Speaker 3: It's so upsetting.

1027
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:08,529
Speaker 4: We're going to post it on Instagram when we post

1028
00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:12,030
Speaker 4: the episode tomorrow. It's very terrifying. It's just like worse

1029
00:43:12,050 --> 00:43:13,530
Speaker 4: than a regular balaclava somehow.

1030
00:43:13,950 --> 00:43:17,350
Speaker 2: And also when we oftentimes these kinds of stories come up.

1031
00:43:18,330 --> 00:43:20,489
Speaker 2: The idea of walking, you're in your house, you think

1032
00:43:20,530 --> 00:43:24,299
Speaker 2: you know what's happening, stepping into a hallway, and there's that,

1033
00:43:24,380 --> 00:43:28,460
Speaker 2: like my therapist described it as being mirror neurons, where

1034
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: when you picture something happening to someone, you actually get

1035
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: the sensation.

1036
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,430
Speaker 4: And the feeling. And the stress reactor, too.

1037
00:43:34,469 --> 00:43:37,609
Speaker 2: And the stress reactor, because that's us empathizing with each other.

1038
00:43:37,630 --> 00:43:41,550
Speaker 2: But that idea of You know when something weird happens

1039
00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:44,029
Speaker 2: in your brain, like you can't... You feel yourself not

1040
00:43:44,070 --> 00:43:45,650
Speaker 2: registering it because it's so weird.

1041
00:43:45,730 --> 00:43:47,190
Speaker 4: Or you almost like... I feel like if I saw that,

1042
00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:49,290
Speaker 4: I would go, what's going on? Like you think it's

1043
00:43:49,310 --> 00:43:49,660
Speaker 4: a joke.

1044
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1045
00:43:50,180 --> 00:43:52,580
Speaker 4: You don't consider that it's immediately a threat. Yeah.

1046
00:43:52,620 --> 00:43:56,779
Speaker 2: There's a hang time where you're just like, there's not

1047
00:43:56,820 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: someone in the hallway.

1048
00:43:57,580 --> 00:43:59,219
Speaker 4: Your brain has to catch up to it or what

1049
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:02,310
Speaker 4: it means or what's... Is dad playing a trick on us? Exactly.

1050
00:44:02,330 --> 00:44:04,950
Speaker 3: Like it's so... upsettingly awful.

1051
00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:06,950
Speaker 4: This is why I'm like pepper spray first like if

1052
00:44:06,989 --> 00:44:08,950
Speaker 4: you accidentally pepper spray your dad because he was playing

1053
00:44:08,969 --> 00:44:11,069
Speaker 4: a trick on you then your dad fucking deserves it.

1054
00:44:11,390 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 2: Yeah I think that's a great way to teach pranksters

1055
00:44:14,340 --> 00:44:16,700
Speaker 2: um their boundaries you know what I mean yeah.

1056
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 4: Kick someone in the dick if they jump out and

1057
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 4: scare you a hundred percent if it turns out that

1058
00:44:21,340 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 4: it's your friend fucking with you then they deserved it.

1059
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,620
Speaker 3: Well then they won't fuck with you anymore absolutely that's

1060
00:44:25,660 --> 00:44:27,589
Speaker 3: for sure no one will fuck with you anymore no

1061
00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:30,010
Speaker 3: one the word will get around.

1062
00:44:29,610 --> 00:44:32,300
Speaker 4: No one but no one What was that?

1063
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 3: Why did I talk like that?

1064
00:44:33,610 --> 00:44:35,910
Speaker 2: I like that I just explained why somebody in the

1065
00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:38,700
Speaker 2: hallway is scary as if that was my new idea

1066
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,940
Speaker 2: for this fucking podcast.

1067
00:44:41,070 --> 00:44:43,410
Speaker 4: Come on, we can say whatever we want. We really can.

1068
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:44,130
Speaker 4: It's really silly.

1069
00:44:44,270 --> 00:44:46,469
Speaker 3: No one can stop us. No one, but no one.

1070
00:44:46,489 --> 00:44:47,870
Speaker 4: All right.

1071
00:44:47,930 --> 00:44:52,500
Speaker 3: Okay, so. Back to the horror show.

1072
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,620
Speaker 4: Balaclava. Here's what's scary about it. It's like he has,

1073
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 4: you know, like even in the Golden State Killer, when

1074
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,899
Speaker 4: he's wearing the Balaclava ski mask, you can see.

1075
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: What his shape his eyes are. Yeah.

1076
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 4: Maybe like the skin around it, what color it is.

1077
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,590
Speaker 4: This one is made so it's just peepholes. Yeah, it's...

1078
00:45:08,090 --> 00:45:09,890
Speaker 4: awful you can't see his mouth you can't describe a

1079
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:11,410
Speaker 4: lip shape anything like that.

1080
00:45:11,290 --> 00:45:13,570
Speaker 2: It looks like something out of a metallica video or

1081
00:45:13,610 --> 00:45:16,830
Speaker 2: it's like oh this is a it's this creature that's

1082
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:19,509
Speaker 2: down at the bottom of a a clay pit are.

1083
00:45:19,469 --> 00:45:22,969
Speaker 4: You suggesting james hatfield is the mystery is mr cruel.

1084
00:45:22,969 --> 00:45:25,549
Speaker 3: I'm saying why don't we look at him when it's

1085
00:45:25,590 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 3: so obvious.

1086
00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 4: When was where was he were they touring australia.

1087
00:45:29,340 --> 00:45:32,100
Speaker 2: Were they i do know they kicked off their um

1088
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:37,230
Speaker 2: They kicked off one of their tours in Petaluma at

1089
00:45:37,250 --> 00:45:40,860
Speaker 2: the Phoenix Theater. Which is so hilarious to me.

1090
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:41,020
Speaker 4: Why?

1091
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,980
Speaker 2: Because they were a barrier band and they were small

1092
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,720
Speaker 2: and we were small and they were like, well.

1093
00:45:45,780 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 3: Start there.

1094
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 4: These people. I almost called you guys hicks. I'm sorry.

1095
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,550
Speaker 3: We are hicks for sure. But we contain so much more. Multitudes.

1096
00:45:55,820 --> 00:45:58,850
Speaker 4: Okay. Stop it.

1097
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:59,790
Speaker 1: This is horrible.

1098
00:45:59,890 --> 00:46:00,510
Speaker 3: It's the worst.

1099
00:46:00,610 --> 00:46:00,870
Speaker 1: Okay.

1100
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 4: Okay he grabs uh both the girls in the hallway

1101
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 4: by their hair forces carmen's two younger sisters into a

1102
00:46:08,340 --> 00:46:11,109
Speaker 4: closet bars the door with the bed the two younger

1103
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:13,150
Speaker 4: girls later tell police that the intruder had called out

1104
00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:16,410
Speaker 4: i won't hurt you um but and by the time

1105
00:46:16,469 --> 00:46:18,690
Speaker 4: the girls pushed their way out of the cupboard i

1106
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 4: think it was like 15 minutes later there's no trace

1107
00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 4: and no sign of carmen police dogs trace Carmen sent

1108
00:46:26,860 --> 00:46:29,899
Speaker 4: through the house past the family's car in the driveway,

1109
00:46:30,180 --> 00:46:34,750
Speaker 4: which they find is spray painted with the words payback, payback,

1110
00:46:34,910 --> 00:46:37,510
Speaker 4: Asian drug dealer and more to come.

1111
00:46:38,510 --> 00:46:42,089
Speaker 3: Fucking red herring. Now I'm onto it. Now, you know,

1112
00:46:42,450 --> 00:46:43,489
Speaker 3: they are there.

1113
00:46:43,650 --> 00:46:46,490
Speaker 4: They track across the garden and the tennis court through

1114
00:46:46,510 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 4: the gate. The scent is lost on the street based

1115
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,580
Speaker 4: on the M.O. Of course, the police are like this

1116
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,060
Speaker 4: motherfucking Mr. Cruel.

1117
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:54,979
Speaker 3: This is bad.

1118
00:46:56,260 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 4: So and unfortunately, a search for Carmen starts out badly

1119
00:46:59,780 --> 00:47:03,900
Speaker 4: because are you ready for this? Listen, fucking amen. They

1120
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 4: were all these task forces put together. Everyone tried really

1121
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 4: hard to solve this.

1122
00:47:08,739 --> 00:47:12,509
Speaker 3: It didn't work. Look, here's a negative thing. Look and listen.

1123
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,730
Speaker 4: The initial police officer in charge that night set up

1124
00:47:16,770 --> 00:47:20,790
Speaker 4: the command post inside of the car of Carmen's house.

1125
00:47:21,690 --> 00:47:22,270
Speaker 3: The crime scene.

1126
00:47:23,070 --> 00:47:23,730
Speaker 4: Inside the house.

1127
00:47:23,969 --> 00:47:25,989
Speaker 3: Oh, oh, oh. So he brought everyone in. He was like,

1128
00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:27,989
Speaker 3: this is a crime scene. Everyone get in here. Meet

1129
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:29,170
Speaker 3: me in the middle of the house.

1130
00:47:29,390 --> 00:47:29,830
Speaker 4: Shit.

1131
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. But it's the late 80s?

1132
00:47:32,230 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 4: 91.

1133
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: So basically the 80s still. That might be too late

1134
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 3: to have made that mistake. Like do it on the

1135
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: tennis court or something. Yeah. If it's an 18 room house.

1136
00:47:42,140 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1137
00:47:42,340 --> 00:47:44,219
Speaker 3: Go outside.

1138
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1139
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:45,739
Speaker 2: So.

1140
00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 4: So people were swarming the house, which was supposed to

1141
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 4: be a crime scene, which meant it wasn't sealed off

1142
00:47:53,020 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 4: as it should have been, possibly destroying vital evidence. But

1143
00:47:56,940 --> 00:48:00,590
Speaker 4: knowing Mr. Cruel had released Sharon Wills after 18 hours

1144
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,770
Speaker 4: and Nicola Linus after 50, the Chans had hoped that

1145
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:08,100
Speaker 4: their daughter would be home soon. But those deadlines passed

1146
00:48:08,219 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 4: and there was no sign of Carmen and no word

1147
00:48:10,540 --> 00:48:10,980
Speaker 4: for Mr.

1148
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: Cruel.

1149
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 4: So because of the spray paint in the car, police

1150
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,210
Speaker 4: also spent months sifting through every aspect of Mr. Chan's

1151
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:19,430
Speaker 4: life to see if the abduction was maybe drug or

1152
00:48:19,450 --> 00:48:20,230
Speaker 4: business related.

1153
00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:23,910
Speaker 3: Well, they'd have to. Yeah, they did. It's they didn't

1154
00:48:23,930 --> 00:48:24,690
Speaker 3: think it was.

1155
00:48:24,750 --> 00:48:27,270
Speaker 4: They kind of knew it wasn't but had to. Yeah.

1156
00:48:27,870 --> 00:48:30,050
Speaker 3: Which takes it's like work time money.

1157
00:48:30,350 --> 00:48:30,850
Speaker 1: Exactly.

1158
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:32,899
Speaker 3: Fucking waste. They found Mr.

1159
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,529
Speaker 4: Chan was squeaky clean and that the slogans were another

1160
00:48:35,550 --> 00:48:38,620
Speaker 4: red herring and had sent the police on another wild

1161
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:39,140
Speaker 4: goose chase.

1162
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 2: So.

1163
00:48:41,290 --> 00:48:42,450
Speaker 3: So, because Nicola.

1164
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 4: And Carmen went to the same school, and Carmen had

1165
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 4: been abducted during a school holiday, and the other girls

1166
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 4: had been abducted around or on school holidays, too.

1167
00:48:53,380 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 3: So, the investigators surmised that maybe Mr.

1168
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,939
Speaker 4: Krull worked in education or had a partner who did,

1169
00:48:58,020 --> 00:49:00,609
Speaker 4: and that partner had gone away out of town for

1170
00:49:00,630 --> 00:49:01,350
Speaker 4: the school holiday.

1171
00:49:01,370 --> 00:49:02,930
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. So, they fucking.

1172
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:05,609
Speaker 4: Asked everyone all these crazy questions. That might have been

1173
00:49:05,650 --> 00:49:08,530
Speaker 4: another red herring, too, to like spend time asking teachers

1174
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,980
Speaker 4: and principals and people who work with them questions, too,

1175
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,330
Speaker 4: that didn't have anything to do with it.

1176
00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: It's so funny because there already are so many red

1177
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,370
Speaker 2: herrings and cases like this. And then just adding yeah

1178
00:49:17,489 --> 00:49:21,110
Speaker 2: more to the pile it's it leads it back to

1179
00:49:21,170 --> 00:49:21,390
Speaker 2: it's a.

1180
00:49:21,350 --> 00:49:25,450
Speaker 4: Cop right right so a dramatic quote police need your

1181
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 4: help poster and it's almost like to me this reminds

1182
00:49:28,860 --> 00:49:31,109
Speaker 4: me of when we used to see the milk carton

1183
00:49:31,410 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 4: the kids on milk cartons it's like terrifying thing when

1184
00:49:34,420 --> 00:49:38,410
Speaker 4: we were kids This poster showed photographs of the three

1185
00:49:38,590 --> 00:49:42,550
Speaker 4: known victims and offered a $ 300, 000 reward for information leading

1186
00:49:42,590 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 4: to Mr. Cruel's conviction. It was sent to every home

1187
00:49:46,580 --> 00:49:49,739
Speaker 4: in Victoria and some in New South Wales and South Australia,

1188
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 4: which was a first. Every single home.

1189
00:49:52,020 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 3: Wow.

1190
00:49:52,540 --> 00:49:55,860
Speaker 4: Huge versions were plastered on hundreds of billboards and smaller

1191
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,220
Speaker 4: ones were displayed on Melbourne's buses and trams. It changed

1192
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:02,410
Speaker 4: life in Australia forever. In the standard, we thought it

1193
00:50:02,450 --> 00:50:05,010
Speaker 4: was safe. Oh, no, it's the 80s. No one is safe.

1194
00:50:05,110 --> 00:50:06,750
Speaker 4: That was my quote. Way.

1195
00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:07,430
Speaker 3: That's right.

1196
00:50:07,730 --> 00:50:08,750
Speaker 4: So Phyllis Chan.

1197
00:50:09,170 --> 00:50:10,230
Speaker 3: Oh, honey, the mother.

1198
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:10,629
Speaker 4: The mother.

1199
00:50:10,650 --> 00:50:11,790
Speaker 3: Okay.

1200
00:50:11,890 --> 00:50:14,310
Speaker 4: I want... In a lot of podcasts, this is the

1201
00:50:14,330 --> 00:50:17,190
Speaker 4: part where they'll just start playing her talking at this

1202
00:50:17,230 --> 00:50:20,250
Speaker 4: press conference, which is the most traumatizing, sad, scary thing

1203
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:21,370
Speaker 4: I've ever heard in my life.

1204
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:24,299
Speaker 3: Oh, no. So I'm not doing that. Because she's so upset.

1205
00:50:24,780 --> 00:50:24,910
Speaker 2: She.

1206
00:50:26,270 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 4: If you listen to it, if you can handle shit

1207
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:30,180
Speaker 4: like this, but I was, listen, picture it. I was

1208
00:50:30,219 --> 00:50:33,259
Speaker 4: walking through H & M and I was listening to Casefile,

1209
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 4: the Casefile episode, and then it just starts playing and

1210
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,890
Speaker 4: I got just chills down my whole body.

1211
00:50:39,050 --> 00:50:39,509
Speaker 3: It's so.

1212
00:50:40,610 --> 00:50:44,250
Speaker 4: Like the grief you can hear in her voice is heartbreaking.

1213
00:50:44,290 --> 00:50:44,469
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1214
00:50:44,930 --> 00:50:48,830
Speaker 4: So she makes these emotional pleas to him, to Mr. Cruel,

1215
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:52,850
Speaker 4: to bring her daughter home. She offers rewards. She offers

1216
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:55,550
Speaker 4: to switch places. She offers her life for her daughter.

1217
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.

1218
00:50:56,340 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 4: I know.

1219
00:50:56,739 --> 00:50:59,299
Speaker 2: That's also a person that's, I mean, like, obviously that's

1220
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 2: what any mother's going to feel.

1221
00:51:00,460 --> 00:51:01,339
Speaker 3: But then it makes me go.

1222
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,899
Speaker 2: She wasn't in a good place to be making any

1223
00:51:04,940 --> 00:51:05,780
Speaker 2: statement whatsoever.

1224
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,340
Speaker 3: Well, they know he's watching.

1225
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,540
Speaker 4: So they're like, let's just let her talk.

1226
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 3: And she calls, she says, I won't call you Mr.

1227
00:51:12,180 --> 00:51:14,629
Speaker 4: Cruel. I'm calling you Mr. Kind because I know you're

1228
00:51:14,650 --> 00:51:17,870
Speaker 4: kind and you'll let her go. Like just trying to fucking.

1229
00:51:17,989 --> 00:51:18,969
Speaker 3: That's a good psychology.

1230
00:51:19,050 --> 00:51:23,870
Speaker 4: Right. Trying to reason with him. It's so heartbreaking. So

1231
00:51:24,070 --> 00:51:27,630
Speaker 4: for almost a year, there's hope of Carmen's safe return.

1232
00:51:27,830 --> 00:51:32,090
Speaker 4: But on April 9th, 1992, Just four days short of

1233
00:51:32,130 --> 00:51:36,029
Speaker 4: the first anniversary of Carmen's abduction, a man is walking

1234
00:51:36,070 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 4: his dog along Eggbeard's Creek in Thomastown when he discovers

1235
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 4: a human skull in a landfill. DNA confirms it's Carmen's skull,

1236
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 4: and she'd been shot three times in the head. They

1237
00:51:49,100 --> 00:51:51,180
Speaker 4: were able to find some other bones, but she'd been

1238
00:51:51,219 --> 00:51:53,340
Speaker 4: shot three times in the head. The head of the

1239
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,940
Speaker 4: homicide squad thinks that Carmen's body had been there for

1240
00:51:57,020 --> 00:52:00,330
Speaker 4: nearly 12 months. So maybe since the beginning, which is

1241
00:52:00,450 --> 00:52:01,290
Speaker 4: so heartbreaking.

1242
00:52:01,350 --> 00:52:03,009
Speaker 3: It's all that's the worst. Yeah.

1243
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:07,770
Speaker 4: They investigators think that it's the most likely reason for

1244
00:52:07,790 --> 00:52:11,330
Speaker 4: the change from kidnapper to killer is that Carmen somehow

1245
00:52:11,410 --> 00:52:16,290
Speaker 4: managed to see Mr. Cruel's face. Oh, yeah. Something he

1246
00:52:16,330 --> 00:52:19,150
Speaker 4: had painstakingly avoided with other victims through the use of

1247
00:52:19,210 --> 00:52:22,549
Speaker 4: mask and blindfold. He had told one victim before not

1248
00:52:22,590 --> 00:52:24,810
Speaker 4: to look at him saying, my freedom is more important

1249
00:52:24,830 --> 00:52:28,100
Speaker 4: than your life. And Carmen's mother, Phyllis, told police that

1250
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 4: her daughter was not the sort of girl to accept

1251
00:52:30,020 --> 00:52:32,980
Speaker 4: captivity without a fight. And she thought that Carmen may

1252
00:52:33,020 --> 00:52:36,859
Speaker 4: have ripped off her blindfold and confronted Mr. Carrull. For

1253
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:41,170
Speaker 4: nearly three years after Carmen's found, 40 investigators named the

1254
00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:43,549
Speaker 4: Spectrum Task Force.

1255
00:52:43,790 --> 00:52:46,129
Speaker 3: Followed 10,000 tip-offs.

1256
00:52:46,590 --> 00:52:48,410
Speaker 4: One of the victims said she saw a camera and

1257
00:52:48,489 --> 00:52:53,430
Speaker 4: tripod at the end of the bed she had peeked. Oh, God. Yeah,

1258
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:57,140
Speaker 4: I know, which affirms the speculation that Mr. Cruel likely

1259
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,380
Speaker 4: created homemade porn to keep his trophies.

1260
00:52:59,980 --> 00:53:01,020
Speaker 3: So then they.

1261
00:53:00,900 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 4: Like have to look through all this shared homemade porn

1262
00:53:03,860 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 4: and see if they can find the porn made of

1263
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 4: these girls, which like you've got to think about the

1264
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,330
Speaker 4: people on that task force who had to then watch

1265
00:53:10,450 --> 00:53:12,710
Speaker 4: fucking hours and hours and hours of child porn.

1266
00:53:12,850 --> 00:53:13,410
Speaker 3: Oh, it's horrible.

1267
00:53:13,469 --> 00:53:14,430
Speaker 4: How awful is that?

1268
00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:20,859
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much. There's so much... Even thinking about

1269
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:22,700
Speaker 2: something like that is really upsetting.

1270
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:23,029
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1271
00:53:23,250 --> 00:53:25,610
Speaker 3: And the idea that those people do that for a living.

1272
00:53:25,850 --> 00:53:30,370
Speaker 4: It makes you understand the whole trope of coming home

1273
00:53:30,430 --> 00:53:34,109
Speaker 4: and not wanting to tell your significant other how your

1274
00:53:34,140 --> 00:53:36,620
Speaker 4: day was because you just watch hours of child porn

1275
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 4: to catch a killer who's on the loose. And you

1276
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 4: get why they kind of disassociate and become.

1277
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:46,700
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, this is the world that they this is

1278
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:47,859
Speaker 3: how the world is to them.

1279
00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:48,380
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1280
00:53:48,739 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 3: And they don't want to let their husband or wife

1281
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 3: or partner.

1282
00:53:51,300 --> 00:53:52,420
Speaker 4: Know what it's like.

1283
00:53:52,580 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 3: Of course not.

1284
00:53:53,760 --> 00:54:00,020
Speaker 4: Sucks. OK, so another burst of publicity. They can't they

1285
00:54:00,060 --> 00:54:02,980
Speaker 4: have leads, but they no one pans out. There's another

1286
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 4: burst of publicity. No publicity. In 1993, after police released

1287
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,900
Speaker 4: details and sketches of the interior of Mr. Cruel's house

1288
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,580
Speaker 4: where he held his victims because they because the girls

1289
00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:19,070
Speaker 4: peeked at it. One of the girls peeked out of

1290
00:54:19,110 --> 00:54:21,709
Speaker 4: her blindfold, even though it was like fucking risking her life.

1291
00:54:22,420 --> 00:54:25,540
Speaker 4: Sharon and Nicola were able to provide police with aspects

1292
00:54:25,580 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 4: of parts of the inside of the house were like,

1293
00:54:27,820 --> 00:54:31,049
Speaker 4: including like, and there's sketches online, you can see like

1294
00:54:31,110 --> 00:54:33,130
Speaker 4: kind of crude, but like layout of the bathroom where

1295
00:54:33,150 --> 00:54:35,850
Speaker 4: the toilet was, where the sink was, where the bathtub was,

1296
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:39,930
Speaker 4: what color the fucking carpet was, like little weird details

1297
00:54:39,950 --> 00:54:41,870
Speaker 4: that if you lived there, you would, you know, you

1298
00:54:41,890 --> 00:54:43,170
Speaker 4: would be like, that's my bedroom.

1299
00:54:43,730 --> 00:54:46,350
Speaker 2: Well, and also just if you read those and then

1300
00:54:46,370 --> 00:54:47,810
Speaker 2: you're like, wait a second.

1301
00:54:48,090 --> 00:54:48,330
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1302
00:54:48,690 --> 00:54:50,489
Speaker 2: George's bathroom is like that.

1303
00:54:50,510 --> 00:54:51,049
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

1304
00:54:51,090 --> 00:54:51,290
Speaker 2: Totally.

1305
00:54:51,330 --> 00:54:53,570
Speaker 3: And they have a carpet that's green. That's so creepy.

1306
00:54:53,590 --> 00:54:54,510
Speaker 3: It's so creepy.

1307
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:57,739
Speaker 4: Also, like one of the girls was able to tell

1308
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 4: them what side of the house she entered on from

1309
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:02,940
Speaker 4: the parking lot. So like even those little things, they

1310
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,700
Speaker 4: could search houses. And they ended up searching 30,000 houses

1311
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 4: based on all this information. All the information that was given.

1312
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:13,860
Speaker 3: It's insane. Yeah, it's crazy. They really worked this case.

1313
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,850
Speaker 4: Overall, Operation Spectrum was Victoria Police's largest ever investigation at

1314
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:24,190
Speaker 4: the time. It changed the way all Victorian detectives conduct investigations.

1315
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:28,850
Speaker 4: Almost a $ 4 million manhunt, though, turned up little in

1316
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 4: the way of answers to who Mr.

1317
00:55:30,420 --> 00:55:31,900
Speaker 3: Cruel was. Okay.

1318
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:36,339
Speaker 4: Another roadblock was that some of the evidence from prior Mr.

1319
00:55:36,380 --> 00:55:40,980
Speaker 4: Cruel attacks from before had been lost, including tape Mr.

1320
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 4: Cruel used to bind one of his victims in an

1321
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:50,469
Speaker 4: earlier case that wasn't one of these. And because they

1322
00:55:50,489 --> 00:55:53,430
Speaker 4: get more skilled with time, the older ones are so

1323
00:55:53,469 --> 00:55:55,790
Speaker 4: important because maybe they were less skilled. They were a

1324
00:55:55,969 --> 00:55:59,259
Speaker 4: little messier. But they couldn't find that. So there was

1325
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:01,779
Speaker 4: no DNA that could be found from that. And the

1326
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:06,259
Speaker 4: stink that the Spectrum, Operation Spectrum detectives kicked up because

1327
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 4: they couldn't find those exhibits, records from earlier sex crimes,

1328
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,650
Speaker 4: prompted a review by Victoria Police and introduction of minimum

1329
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:17,770
Speaker 4: standards for all future major crime investigation. And it covered

1330
00:56:17,790 --> 00:56:21,050
Speaker 4: such things as forensic crime scene preservation and other aspects

1331
00:56:21,070 --> 00:56:23,890
Speaker 4: of the investigation. And because of that, the police force

1332
00:56:23,930 --> 00:56:27,669
Speaker 4: became more professional. It strengthened legislation regarding sex and child

1333
00:56:27,710 --> 00:56:31,770
Speaker 4: pornography as well. Good. The tax force was disbanded, though,

1334
00:56:31,870 --> 00:56:34,890
Speaker 4: in January of 1994 after detectives had eliminated more than

1335
00:56:34,890 --> 00:56:38,700
Speaker 4: 27,000 suspects.

1336
00:56:39,940 --> 00:56:41,779
Speaker 3: It didn't catch Mr.

1337
00:56:41,820 --> 00:56:44,900
Speaker 4: Krull, but the investigation led to 74 people being charged

1338
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:52,549
Speaker 4: with offenses, including rape, incest, blackmail, attempted bestiality, possession of

1339
00:56:52,590 --> 00:56:56,569
Speaker 4: child pornography, threats to kill, making obscene phone calls, and

1340
00:56:56,650 --> 00:57:00,689
Speaker 4: firearm offenses. They worked for 29 months. I said all that.

1341
00:57:02,070 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: Okay.

1342
00:57:02,610 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 4: Since Carmen's murder, there have been no more apparent crimes

1343
00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 4: committed that could be connected to Mr.

1344
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: Cruel.

1345
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:09,260
Speaker 3: They ended.

1346
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 4: And remember when fucking GSK ended in 86, they were like,

1347
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,259
Speaker 4: he had to have died. People don't end. Yeah. People

1348
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 4: don't stop.

1349
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:16,580
Speaker 3: It doesn't just stop. Right.

1350
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:26,030
Speaker 4: One theory is that the actual... Mr. Cruel was interviewed

1351
00:57:26,210 --> 00:57:28,390
Speaker 4: and feared that he was on a suspect list, so

1352
00:57:28,430 --> 00:57:30,140
Speaker 4: he just was too scared and stopped.

1353
00:57:30,220 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 3: That's one theory.

1354
00:57:31,860 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 4: The FBI got involved. Their analysis stated that he's a

1355
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,220
Speaker 4: functional individual who has a steady employment. He's generally regarded

1356
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,500
Speaker 4: as a good neighbor, quiet, polite, somewhat introverted, maybe involved

1357
00:57:43,540 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 4: in certain community-minded projects. Like, so just a fucking everyday dude. Yeah.

1358
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,620
Speaker 4: They built a profile of a man aged between 35

1359
00:57:50,620 --> 00:57:53,660
Speaker 4: and 40, slightly built with sandy or ginger colored hair,

1360
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:58,830
Speaker 4: softly spoken and quite caring in his own monstrous way.

1361
00:57:58,970 --> 00:58:01,150
Speaker 4: In fact, one of the victims told police that he

1362
00:58:01,430 --> 00:58:04,630
Speaker 4: when he bathed her after he bathed her, quote, like

1363
00:58:04,670 --> 00:58:08,380
Speaker 4: a mother washing a baby. Yeah, I know.

1364
00:58:09,780 --> 00:58:15,170
Speaker 2: Then he's having this totally separate fantasy experience where this

1365
00:58:15,230 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 2: is a consensual fucking relationship with a child.

1366
00:58:17,890 --> 00:58:18,070
Speaker 1: Right.

1367
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:19,700
Speaker 4: And saying to them, he said to one of the girls,

1368
00:58:19,780 --> 00:58:21,660
Speaker 4: I'm going to bring you home in 50 hours. He

1369
00:58:21,700 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 4: brought her home in exactly 50 hours. Like this to

1370
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,410
Speaker 4: him is just this little moment.

1371
00:58:26,450 --> 00:58:26,530
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1372
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:26,930
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1373
00:58:27,570 --> 00:58:29,890
Speaker 3: It's just something he needs to do and everything's.

1374
00:58:29,530 --> 00:58:31,390
Speaker 4: Okay right and he's not a monster because he's not

1375
00:58:31,450 --> 00:58:34,370
Speaker 4: killing them in his mind probably yeah you know so

1376
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:36,530
Speaker 4: then in april of 2016 in the lead to the

1377
00:58:36,750 --> 00:58:41,439
Speaker 4: 25th anniversary of carmen's murder victoria police released a 1994

1378
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:46,260
Speaker 4: dossier to the harold sun newspaper basically containing intimate details

1379
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 4: of the case that hadn't been released and uh Contained

1380
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,490
Speaker 4: information about seven possible suspects that hadn't been ruled out

1381
00:58:54,530 --> 00:59:00,890
Speaker 4: since then. Oh, so including details of the prime suspect.

1382
00:59:01,570 --> 00:59:05,090
Speaker 4: So the prime suspect is was then a 75 year old.

1383
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:08,530
Speaker 4: He's like now a 70 late 70 year old former

1384
00:59:08,570 --> 00:59:14,180
Speaker 4: Melbourne University lecturer. named brian allen elkner who wrote all

1385
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 4: these like creepy fucking like marquita sod style papers about

1386
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,020
Speaker 4: evil and how doing evil is like an art form

1387
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:25,390
Speaker 4: and oh gross In the late, in the 1970s, he

1388
00:59:25,410 --> 00:59:28,570
Speaker 4: was arrested and imprisoned for 10 years after pleading guilty

1389
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 4: to a series of rapes and other violent sexual offenses

1390
00:59:32,140 --> 00:59:35,700
Speaker 4: against young girls and women, including attacks at knife point

1391
00:59:35,740 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 4: in their homes. But he's like, hey, I know I'm

1392
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,430
Speaker 4: the prime suspect. I didn't do it. Leave me alone.

1393
00:59:41,530 --> 00:59:42,450
Speaker 3: I paid my dues.

1394
00:59:43,740 --> 00:59:49,260
Speaker 2: But what the fuck? And he serves 10 years in

1395
00:59:49,300 --> 00:59:53,380
Speaker 2: prison for being a violent child rapist. And then he's like,

1396
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:54,860
Speaker 2: and now I'm going to get a job at the

1397
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,050
Speaker 2: fucking university.

1398
00:59:56,140 --> 00:59:58,030
Speaker 4: No, I think he went back to his job as

1399
00:59:58,070 --> 01:00:00,590
Speaker 4: a lecturer. Like he had already done that. Guys, it's

1400
01:00:00,630 --> 01:00:02,130
Speaker 4: got to change.

1401
01:00:02,210 --> 01:00:03,950
Speaker 3: We got to not. We got to keep it.

1402
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:06,370
Speaker 4: There's got to be a qualified lecturer who's not a

1403
01:00:06,410 --> 01:00:07,650
Speaker 4: fucking child rapist.

1404
01:00:09,130 --> 01:00:11,030
Speaker 3: There's got to be other choices. There's got to be

1405
01:00:11,070 --> 01:00:12,370
Speaker 3: someone else in the bunch. Yeah.

1406
01:00:13,110 --> 01:00:16,690
Speaker 2: I can't. Just the idea of people being like, oh, yeah,

1407
01:00:16,770 --> 01:00:19,450
Speaker 2: I was a serial rapist, but I went to jail

1408
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:20,230
Speaker 2: for seven years.

1409
01:00:20,330 --> 01:00:23,980
Speaker 3: Now that's done. But it's been proven it doesn't end

1410
01:00:24,020 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 3: like that.

1411
01:00:24,460 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 4: No, and it's like, even if it did, you don't

1412
01:00:27,620 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 4: get a free pass after.

1413
01:00:29,300 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 3: I know it's like, they paid their dues.

1414
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 4: No, you didn't.

1415
01:00:31,620 --> 01:00:33,140
Speaker 3: No, no, that's not enough dues.

1416
01:00:33,180 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 4: That's not enough dues. A million years aren't enough dues.

1417
01:00:36,140 --> 01:00:39,260
Speaker 4: You're not allowed to fucking sexually assault and rape women

1418
01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:39,580
Speaker 4: or men.

1419
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,180
Speaker 2: And especially fucking children.

1420
01:00:42,220 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 3: And you're going to get it. for the rest of

1421
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 3: your fucking life.

1422
01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:46,020
Speaker 4: So now all these like newspapers were like following him.

1423
01:00:46,070 --> 01:00:48,410
Speaker 4: And he's like, you're, you're, what you're doing to me

1424
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:50,870
Speaker 4: is to say, you know, you're harassing me. And I'm

1425
01:00:50,910 --> 01:00:52,790
Speaker 4: a victim too now saying like, he was like one

1426
01:00:52,890 --> 01:00:53,690
Speaker 4: of his victims.

1427
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:54,390
Speaker 3: No, you're not.

1428
01:00:54,450 --> 01:00:57,990
Speaker 4: That's why I'll fucking say your goddamn name, Brian Allen.

1429
01:00:57,750 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 3: Elkner, you piece of shit. Fuck you.

1430
01:01:00,460 --> 01:01:03,500
Speaker 2: Well, also it's the thing of, here's the, here's the thing,

1431
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,070
Speaker 2: you know, if you're going to go Choose to be

1432
01:01:07,110 --> 01:01:09,460
Speaker 2: a serial rapist, which is what the choice you made.

1433
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 3: This will be something that impacts your future life.

1434
01:01:12,700 --> 01:01:12,860
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1435
01:01:12,980 --> 01:01:16,260
Speaker 3: Like maybe you'll be suspected of other things after. Right.

1436
01:01:16,740 --> 01:01:19,300
Speaker 3: You don't just get to wipe the slate clean. There's

1437
01:01:19,340 --> 01:01:19,740
Speaker 3: a reason.

1438
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,610
Speaker 4: He's like, yeah, police call me after every time there's

1439
01:01:22,650 --> 01:01:24,590
Speaker 4: some kind of, you know, predator on the loose.

1440
01:01:24,610 --> 01:01:25,650
Speaker 3: Yeah, dummy. Yeah.

1441
01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:26,950
Speaker 4: Because you're a predator.

1442
01:01:26,970 --> 01:01:27,330
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1443
01:01:27,890 --> 01:01:28,570
Speaker 3: You're a predator.

1444
01:01:28,590 --> 01:01:30,230
Speaker 4: I don't give a shit if you've never fucking done

1445
01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:32,330
Speaker 4: it again. You always.

1446
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 3: Prove you've never done it again.

1447
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:35,140
Speaker 4: Right. You can't.

1448
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 3: Creep.

1449
01:01:35,810 --> 01:01:38,890
Speaker 4: So Victorian police have confirmed that they investigated and ruled

1450
01:01:39,030 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 4: out a connection to the state's infamous unidentified offender, Mr. Cruel,

1451
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 4: to the GSK, to the Golden State Killer.

1452
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 3: But they shared a.

1453
01:01:48,740 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 4: Ton of traits, as we already said. And they were

1454
01:01:51,620 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 4: both highly premeditated and surveilled neighborhoods for weeks at a time.

1455
01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:59,070
Speaker 4: From what I can tell, they don't have DNA on Mr.

1456
01:01:59,150 --> 01:02:03,270
Speaker 4: Cruel at all. But I could see them having it

1457
01:02:03,350 --> 01:02:04,450
Speaker 4: and not telling anyone.

1458
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:06,689
Speaker 2: Wait, so then how do we know that they ruled

1459
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:08,790
Speaker 2: him out? They just by timelines and stuff?

1460
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:11,490
Speaker 4: No, they didn't rule him out. Oh, the GS Golden

1461
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:14,140
Speaker 4: State Killer? Yes, he... Yeah, it's not him.

1462
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 3: Oh, okay. Maybe by DNA. I don't know.

1463
01:02:16,660 --> 01:02:20,620
Speaker 4: But hopefully they do have it and they'll be able

1464
01:02:20,660 --> 01:02:22,900
Speaker 4: to run it through that shit and solve it soon

1465
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 4: because that would be another great fucking win.

1466
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,540
Speaker 3: Yeah, that'd be amazing. Yeah. Well, also, that's just such a.

1467
01:02:29,940 --> 01:02:31,180
Speaker 3: God, that's such an awful.

1468
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 2: Those kind of things can't just sit there like we're

1469
01:02:34,340 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: all fine with it.

1470
01:02:35,100 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1471
01:02:35,980 --> 01:02:39,900
Speaker 2: And not that they do, because obviously it's very heartening

1472
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 2: to hear that they put together a task.

1473
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:45,110
Speaker 3: Force with 40 cops on it. That's amazing. When's the

1474
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,370
Speaker 3: last time we've said something like that?

1475
01:02:47,510 --> 01:02:47,690
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1476
01:02:47,710 --> 01:02:50,550
Speaker 2: Where it's like usually the task force has five people

1477
01:02:50,570 --> 01:02:54,010
Speaker 2: who are working overtime to try to solve something.

1478
01:02:54,030 --> 01:02:57,030
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's some number, too, of like the amount of unsolvable.

1479
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:03,730
Speaker 4: Unpaid overtime hours that these police officers put into this.

1480
01:03:03,790 --> 01:03:07,010
Speaker 4: I mean, there's all these numbers about it, but it's

1481
01:03:07,030 --> 01:03:09,350
Speaker 4: really horrifying. And to be, I feel like to be

1482
01:03:09,770 --> 01:03:12,740
Speaker 4: from that, a kid from that period and that boogeyman

1483
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:15,460
Speaker 4: is still fucking out there and it could be anyone.

1484
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,940
Speaker 4: And it's just so scary. And the poor Chan family

1485
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,020
Speaker 4: who have no peace of mind over this. It's just awful. Yeah,

1486
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,110
Speaker 4: it is. So that's finally Mr.

1487
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 3: Cruel. Wow, that was great.

1488
01:03:25,740 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1489
01:03:26,220 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 2: I think we really enlightened a lot of people on

1490
01:03:29,540 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 2: what's bad and how bad things should be dealt with.

1491
01:03:33,340 --> 01:03:34,380
Speaker 3: That's what I feel good about.

1492
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,910
Speaker 4: They should be dealt with by canned wine.

1493
01:03:39,370 --> 01:03:39,630
Speaker 2: Cheers.

1494
01:03:39,670 --> 01:03:42,110
Speaker 3: Here's the commercial for canned wine.

1495
01:03:42,170 --> 01:03:42,370
Speaker 4: Excuse me.

1496
01:03:43,660 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 2: Stephen, can you cut out every time I hock up

1497
01:03:45,620 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 2: phlegm like a fucking Greek fisherman?

1498
01:03:48,100 --> 01:03:51,510
Speaker 3: God damn it! I see the Twitter. Excuse me, Greek

1499
01:03:51,550 --> 01:03:52,510
Speaker 3: fisherman or actually.

1500
01:03:52,530 --> 01:03:53,570
Speaker 1: Excuse.

1501
01:03:53,070 --> 01:03:56,270
Speaker 3: Me, my dad's Greek and I'm brokenhearted that you would say. I, uh.

1502
01:03:59,790 --> 01:04:00,390
Speaker 3: Should I pee first?

1503
01:04:00,410 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 2: Also, actually, I think I just stole that from Paul Tompkins.

1504
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 2: He used to call himself a Greek fisherman. So if

1505
01:04:05,220 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 2: we're going to footnote credit every fucking aspect of this

1506
01:04:07,740 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 2: show tonight, and I think we should.

1507
01:04:09,140 --> 01:04:10,180
Speaker 4: I agree.

1508
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,110
Speaker 2: I'm shouting out to Paul Tompkins that the Greek fisherman

1509
01:04:13,150 --> 01:04:13,669
Speaker 2: line is his.

1510
01:04:14,130 --> 01:04:17,550
Speaker 3: We should call this footnoting the Greek fisherman this episode.

1511
01:04:18,150 --> 01:04:20,710
Speaker 3: Starring Paul Tompkins. Paul Tompkins, the Greek fisherman, is a

1512
01:04:20,730 --> 01:04:22,430
Speaker 3: Greek fisherman. You heard it here first, kids.

1513
01:04:22,790 --> 01:04:24,090
Speaker 4: That's what this episode is called.

1514
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,330
Speaker 3: But we'll do it just all initials. P-F-T-E-I-A-G-F.

1515
01:04:29,470 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 4: You have to be in the know. All right.

1516
01:04:34,220 --> 01:04:37,220
Speaker 3: Do you want it? I want to wait, but then

1517
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,460
Speaker 3: I don't want to stop you in the middle of it. Wait,

1518
01:04:40,500 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 3: you want to go to the bathroom?

1519
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 4: No.

1520
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,580
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll just power through this.

1521
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:48,060
Speaker 4: No, no, no. Take your time. I have a diaper on.

1522
01:04:48,900 --> 01:04:51,730
Speaker 2: You're just like that astronaut that loved that other astronaut.

1523
01:04:52,470 --> 01:04:53,810
Speaker 3: We never talk about that story.

1524
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:56,670
Speaker 2: Wait, we should actually do that one. I just remembered

1525
01:04:56,710 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 2: it is an attempted murder. Excuse me, I'm making notes.

1526
01:05:01,340 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 3: I'm going to pee while you make a note. Okay. Okay,

1527
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 3: and we're back. Are there any updates for this story?

1528
01:05:11,100 --> 01:05:15,470
Speaker 1: A couple. In 2025, Associate Professor David Wells, who was

1529
01:05:15,530 --> 01:05:18,910
Speaker 1: a forensic physician with Victoria Police during the time of Mr.

1530
01:05:18,970 --> 01:05:23,390
Speaker 1: Krul's attacks, said that he had personally collected genetic evidence

1531
01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:26,630
Speaker 1: that could be the key to unmasking Mr. Krul's identity.

1532
01:05:26,650 --> 01:05:27,730
Speaker 3: I mean.

1533
01:05:28,340 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: Mr. Cool has to know his time is almost up, right?

1534
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,830
Speaker 1: If he's still alive, he's got to be sweating.

1535
01:05:33,250 --> 01:05:33,709
Speaker 3: Hope so.

1536
01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:37,830
Speaker 1: Yeah. But there's been no reported follow-up on this evidence

1537
01:05:37,890 --> 01:05:38,390
Speaker 1: since then.

1538
01:05:38,410 --> 01:05:38,490
Speaker 4: Okay.

1539
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:42,670
Speaker 1: And then on the 25th anniversary of Carmen Chan's abduction

1540
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: and murder, the police increased the reward for information from

1541
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: $ 100, 000 to $ 1 million.

1542
01:05:48,540 --> 01:05:49,140
Speaker 3: So sad.

1543
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,220
Speaker 1: I know. I just hate this story.

1544
01:05:51,300 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1545
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,820
Speaker 1: All right. Let's get into Karen's story covering the murder

1546
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: of Gurley Chu Hassenkofft.

1547
01:06:05,290 --> 01:06:07,410
Speaker 3: You just faved something while you're in the bathroom.

1548
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:12,180
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. You don't do that? You don't?

1549
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 3: That's my favorite thing in the world. I was peeing.

1550
01:06:17,700 --> 01:06:20,970
Speaker 2: This, okay, so this one, I've been waiting, I've been

1551
01:06:21,050 --> 01:06:23,310
Speaker 2: thinking about this one for a long time. Because when

1552
01:06:23,490 --> 01:06:27,940
Speaker 2: I think of us and... murderinos and people who love

1553
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:31,020
Speaker 2: true crime and people who pay attention to true crime

1554
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,900
Speaker 2: all the time and just ingest it. Like when you

1555
01:06:33,940 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: go to your, for me, it was like, go to

1556
01:06:36,060 --> 01:06:39,260
Speaker 2: your hotel room after doing a terrible standup gig in

1557
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 2: fucking Peoria, Illinois, and you turn on TV and you

1558
01:06:43,220 --> 01:06:45,070
Speaker 2: have your choice of all this shit and you're going

1559
01:06:45,090 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 2: to go to, you.

1560
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,300
Speaker 4: Know, American justice, the American justice, forensic files, all that.

1561
01:06:50,340 --> 01:06:50,540
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1562
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,340
Speaker 4: The stuff that I get ready for bed while that's

1563
01:06:52,380 --> 01:06:54,510
Speaker 4: on the background. Cause it's fucking soothing and comforting. And

1564
01:06:54,590 --> 01:06:55,950
Speaker 4: it's like your friend. Yes.

1565
01:06:56,170 --> 01:06:58,890
Speaker 2: And it's also feels like, I think there's that you're

1566
01:06:59,190 --> 01:07:00,450
Speaker 2: watching people take.

1567
01:07:00,270 --> 01:07:03,090
Speaker 3: Care of a problem. I think it helped me.

1568
01:07:03,450 --> 01:07:06,300
Speaker 2: Whereas like, I just did stand up. I failed miserably.

1569
01:07:06,510 --> 01:07:09,020
Speaker 2: People don't like what I have to say. Now I'm

1570
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:13,140
Speaker 2: here and I'm getting a perspective because actually I'm fine.

1571
01:07:13,340 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 2: And I, my life is good.

1572
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 4: Love it. Whatever.

1573
01:07:16,100 --> 01:07:20,580
Speaker 2: Um, this story and this crime is one of the

1574
01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 2: ones that you've seen on all of them because it's

1575
01:07:24,700 --> 01:07:27,700
Speaker 2: not so crazy and it is the murder of girly

1576
01:07:27,820 --> 01:07:33,700
Speaker 2: to Hassenkoft. Um, so let me know when you remember

1577
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. Um, this was suggested to me, uh,

1578
01:07:37,220 --> 01:07:41,020
Speaker 2: by my online friend, Zoe Klar, who loves the show.

1579
01:07:41,300 --> 01:07:43,110
Speaker 2: And I know her from Twitter. We hung out at

1580
01:07:43,140 --> 01:07:47,020
Speaker 2: a wedding once. She's super cool girl. And she was like,

1581
01:07:47,460 --> 01:07:50,250
Speaker 2: don't forget, don't forget the classic. And I was just like,

1582
01:07:50,610 --> 01:07:54,100
Speaker 2: you're right. It's it is such a. It's just one

1583
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 2: of the ones I think of this murderer's face when

1584
01:07:57,180 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 2: I think of.

1585
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,080
Speaker 4: Do you ever like think like, I can't do that one.

1586
01:08:00,100 --> 01:08:02,100
Speaker 4: Everyone knows that one. But then you're like, no, this

1587
01:08:02,180 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 4: one's great and I should do it. Yeah.

1588
01:08:03,980 --> 01:08:04,100
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1589
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think I changed my mind about

1590
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 2: that because we've met people in VIP lines who have said,

1591
01:08:10,700 --> 01:08:12,620
Speaker 2: why haven't you done A, B or C? And if

1592
01:08:12,700 --> 01:08:14,410
Speaker 2: we ever give that answer of like, we just felt

1593
01:08:14,450 --> 01:08:15,770
Speaker 2: like people have heard it too much.

1594
01:08:15,810 --> 01:08:16,130
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1595
01:08:16,350 --> 01:08:18,330
Speaker 2: They say, but we want to hear you do it,

1596
01:08:18,770 --> 01:08:20,530
Speaker 2: which I read as we want to hear you fuck

1597
01:08:20,550 --> 01:08:20,730
Speaker 2: it up.

1598
01:08:22,189 --> 01:08:24,889
Speaker 3: And it's like, yeah, I can I can fuck up

1599
01:08:24,970 --> 01:08:25,550
Speaker 3: real good.

1600
01:08:26,630 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 2: So thanks, Zoe, for suggesting it. And of course, there's

1601
01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:36,030
Speaker 2: an American justice on it. If you know or somebody knows,

1602
01:08:36,830 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 2: I need American Justice. There's so many seasons of it.

1603
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 2: But I couldn't find it on normal internet channels.

1604
01:08:45,580 --> 01:08:47,340
Speaker 3: I couldn't find it. It's not on Netflix. It's not

1605
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 3: on anything.

1606
01:08:49,540 --> 01:08:51,950
Speaker 2: I guess I'll just go home and look it up

1607
01:08:51,950 --> 01:08:55,610
Speaker 2: on Amazon. But I would buy 20 seasons of American Justice.

1608
01:08:55,610 --> 01:08:58,150
Speaker 2: absolutely that show is the shit and we as well

1609
01:08:58,170 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 2: know bill curtis bill curtis is just whether he's wearing

1610
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,700
Speaker 2: a blazer or a brown leather jacket it doesn't matter i.

1611
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:09,620
Speaker 4: Love him he's the he's the original i mean night stalker.

1612
01:09:10,100 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 2: Sorry okay what if he was so the one show

1613
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:17,860
Speaker 2: that i could find this on was on like what's

1614
01:09:17,900 --> 01:09:22,010
Speaker 2: that daily motion video channel it was like super obscure

1615
01:09:22,189 --> 01:09:24,330
Speaker 2: and it was a show called crime stories which is

1616
01:09:24,370 --> 01:09:26,210
Speaker 2: a great show okay i was trying to figure out

1617
01:09:26,229 --> 01:09:28,710
Speaker 2: if it's like canadian or something because i don't think

1618
01:09:28,729 --> 01:09:31,849
Speaker 2: i've ever heard of crime stories no um and the

1619
01:09:31,990 --> 01:09:34,729
Speaker 2: narrator on crime stories is a man named bill courage

1620
01:09:34,750 --> 01:09:38,940
Speaker 2: and So like three chairs from Bill Courage holding down

1621
01:09:38,979 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 2: the fort on crime stories.

1622
01:09:40,780 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 3: All of it.

1623
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 2: All of that sounds like stuff you would write in

1624
01:09:43,740 --> 01:09:45,979
Speaker 2: a TV show to represent a true crime show.

1625
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,580
Speaker 1: Oh, I get it.

1626
01:09:48,700 --> 01:09:48,900
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1627
01:09:49,340 --> 01:09:50,010
Speaker 3: Like a fake one.

1628
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 4: Yes.

1629
01:09:50,850 --> 01:09:53,370
Speaker 3: Let's just call him Bill Courage. It's, you know, the

1630
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:54,770
Speaker 3: host Bill Courage, whatever.

1631
01:09:56,330 --> 01:09:56,850
Speaker 4: Bring it to me.

1632
01:09:57,470 --> 01:10:01,790
Speaker 3: So this takes place September 9th, 1999. Okay, here we are.

1633
01:10:02,110 --> 01:10:05,370
Speaker 3: Here we go. 100 miles south of Albuquerque, New Mexico.

1634
01:10:05,450 --> 01:10:05,950
Speaker 4: There we are.

1635
01:10:06,850 --> 01:10:10,470
Speaker 2: It's an abandoned stretch of highway because you know all

1636
01:10:10,510 --> 01:10:12,410
Speaker 2: those weird, crazy roads outside of any city.

1637
01:10:12,430 --> 01:10:13,490
Speaker 4: Oh, I watched Breaking Bad.

1638
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:14,269
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.

1639
01:10:14,620 --> 01:10:15,740
Speaker 4: A lot of shit happens there.

1640
01:10:16,380 --> 01:10:18,019
Speaker 2: It's the kind of road, and I don't know if

1641
01:10:18,060 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 2: this is accurate to the real place or if this

1642
01:10:20,380 --> 01:10:22,460
Speaker 2: is just what it all looks like, but it's that

1643
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 2: thing where it's the shot, the B-roll shot, It was

1644
01:10:25,860 --> 01:10:30,170
Speaker 2: one long highway, and then it's shimmery hot down in

1645
01:10:30,189 --> 01:10:33,689
Speaker 2: the three-quarters area, and there's just a mesa in the distance.

1646
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:34,530
Speaker 4: Fuck that shit.

1647
01:10:35,410 --> 01:10:37,310
Speaker 3: The most I know of that is driving home from Vegas,

1648
01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:41,430
Speaker 3: and it fucking sucks. Yes, and it's bleak, and you

1649
01:10:41,450 --> 01:10:42,630
Speaker 3: can hide a body out there.

1650
01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:43,630
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1651
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:46,350
Speaker 3: Okay, so there's a guy.

1652
01:10:46,970 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 2: He's a road worker, and he's been fixing this highway

1653
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:56,650
Speaker 2: or whatever. when he finds a pile of bloody Clothes

1654
01:10:56,670 --> 01:11:01,230
Speaker 2: that look like a young girl's clothes. And so he

1655
01:11:01,270 --> 01:11:04,100
Speaker 2: calls the cops. They come and they start looking around.

1656
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:10,700
Speaker 2: Nearby the clothes, there's suspicious looking duct tape because it's... Suspicious.

1657
01:11:09,939 --> 01:11:12,059
Speaker 4: As a fucking duct tape and your bloody clothes isn't

1658
01:11:12,140 --> 01:11:12,939
Speaker 4: suspicious looking?

1659
01:11:13,700 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 3: They're like, look, we can explain all this away. Clearly,

1660
01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:20,430
Speaker 3: you're driving out of here. The heat got to you.

1661
01:11:20,510 --> 01:11:21,349
Speaker 3: You cut your finger.

1662
01:11:21,510 --> 01:11:24,910
Speaker 4: I think errant duct tape is suspicious.

1663
01:11:24,930 --> 01:11:25,130
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1664
01:11:25,620 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, duct tape on its own laying on the side

1665
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:29,900
Speaker 2: of the road scares the living shit out of me.

1666
01:11:29,979 --> 01:11:30,589
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1667
01:11:30,689 --> 01:11:35,590
Speaker 2: This duct tape was in the shape of a figure eight.

1668
01:11:35,689 --> 01:11:37,250
Speaker 2: So it was duct tape that looked like sand.

1669
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 3: Super suspicious. Put together handcuffs.

1670
01:11:40,060 --> 01:11:40,959
Speaker 4: Oh, no.

1671
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:43,680
Speaker 2: So that poor road worker who I hope to God

1672
01:11:43,700 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 2: he wasn't by himself out there. Because then that's even

1673
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:48,349
Speaker 2: then an eagle screams in the distance. And you're like,

1674
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,530
Speaker 2: this is the scariest thing of all time. But he

1675
01:11:50,570 --> 01:11:52,689
Speaker 2: grabs all that shit or he calls the cops. They

1676
01:11:52,729 --> 01:11:56,450
Speaker 2: come and they find another piece of duct tape nearby

1677
01:11:56,490 --> 01:11:58,010
Speaker 2: that has long black hairs on it.

1678
01:11:58,150 --> 01:11:58,630
Speaker 4: Oh, no.

1679
01:11:58,970 --> 01:12:03,650
Speaker 3: So they start looking into what this could mean.

1680
01:12:03,850 --> 01:12:06,889
Speaker 2: And the police in the beginning in this crime story show.

1681
01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:09,550
Speaker 2: We're talking about how they thought it was children's clothing.

1682
01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:12,110
Speaker 2: So they were freaking out and like it looked really bad.

1683
01:12:13,390 --> 01:12:19,099
Speaker 2: They start looking up missing persons reports, recent missing persons

1684
01:12:19,140 --> 01:12:23,420
Speaker 2: reports to see if anything compares. And it turned out

1685
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 2: that there was a missing persons report filed for a

1686
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 2: woman named Gurley Chu Hassenkopf.

1687
01:12:30,979 --> 01:12:32,410
Speaker 3: Hassan coughed with a T at the end.

1688
01:12:33,050 --> 01:12:36,690
Speaker 2: Um, so she was a Malaysian bank teller, uh, 35

1689
01:12:36,689 --> 01:12:42,030
Speaker 2: years old, very well liked, very responsible, big, you know, had, uh, uh,

1690
01:12:42,430 --> 01:12:44,780
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of friends at the bank. Um,

1691
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,179
Speaker 2: and when she didn't show up for work, they immediately

1692
01:12:47,220 --> 01:12:50,220
Speaker 2: knew something was wrong. Um, cause she was super responsible,

1693
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:54,860
Speaker 2: but also because she had recently filed for divorce and her,

1694
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,180
Speaker 2: and she had told everyone at.

1695
01:12:56,150 --> 01:12:58,490
Speaker 3: The bank, my husband has been threatening my life.

1696
01:12:59,340 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 2: And like she basically told them she was really scared

1697
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,030
Speaker 2: and that her husband wanted to kill her. So the

1698
01:13:06,070 --> 01:13:08,650
Speaker 2: second she doesn't show up, they immediately call the cops.

1699
01:13:08,670 --> 01:13:11,170
Speaker 2: They immediately to like take all the action they need to.

1700
01:13:11,610 --> 01:13:14,110
Speaker 2: I also think this is just my opinion, but it

1701
01:13:14,210 --> 01:13:17,210
Speaker 2: seems like because she was, she was from Malaysia. So

1702
01:13:17,250 --> 01:13:19,690
Speaker 2: she didn't have, I don't know. She had a lot

1703
01:13:19,750 --> 01:13:22,110
Speaker 2: of family here. So I think her friends at the

1704
01:13:22,140 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 2: bank were like, if we don't do it, who will

1705
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 2: do it for her?

1706
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,740
Speaker 3: Which God bless them. Thank God. Um, And I have

1707
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,230
Speaker 3: to say, I really like the name Girly.

1708
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:32,809
Speaker 1: It's cute.

1709
01:13:32,820 --> 01:13:33,770
Speaker 3: It's just really cute.

1710
01:13:33,790 --> 01:13:34,150
Speaker 1: It is.

1711
01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:36,830
Speaker 3: But then compared to the horrible things I'm about.

1712
01:13:36,689 --> 01:13:37,710
Speaker 4: To talk about, it's awful.

1713
01:13:37,770 --> 01:13:42,090
Speaker 2: So just this, this is all part of the true

1714
01:13:42,130 --> 01:13:46,490
Speaker 2: crime world. So they, the police go to Girly Chu's

1715
01:13:46,610 --> 01:13:52,700
Speaker 2: apartment and they find three damp stains on the carpeting

1716
01:13:53,580 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 2: and they find bloodstains on her couch and And the

1717
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,020
Speaker 2: whole place smells like bleach.

1718
01:13:58,170 --> 01:13:58,510
Speaker 4: Uh-oh.

1719
01:13:58,710 --> 01:14:02,729
Speaker 3: So they're like, ding, ding, ding, all red flags. And

1720
01:14:02,770 --> 01:14:04,450
Speaker 3: what they do, and they talk.

1721
01:14:04,270 --> 01:14:08,269
Speaker 2: About it in this episode of Crime Story, whatever it's called.

1722
01:14:09,890 --> 01:14:10,150
Speaker 3: Crime.

1723
01:14:10,510 --> 01:14:11,490
Speaker 4: Stopper Stories.

1724
01:14:12,020 --> 01:14:12,600
Speaker 3: Crime Stories.

1725
01:14:12,939 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 4: Crime Stories.

1726
01:14:13,540 --> 01:14:17,259
Speaker 2: Crime Stories, plural. Two words that we know. They're easy words.

1727
01:14:18,100 --> 01:14:20,220
Speaker 2: It's not hard to remember. And yet, here we are.

1728
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:21,099
Speaker 4: Okay.

1729
01:14:21,830 --> 01:14:24,590
Speaker 2: But they talk about how the best move that the

1730
01:14:24,650 --> 01:14:27,470
Speaker 2: cops made in this entire case was in that moment.

1731
01:14:28,210 --> 01:14:31,270
Speaker 2: Instead of cutting out a swath of the carpet where

1732
01:14:31,610 --> 01:14:33,230
Speaker 2: they were worried about, they pulled.

1733
01:14:33,010 --> 01:14:35,550
Speaker 3: The entire carpet out and took it to the lab.

1734
01:14:35,590 --> 01:14:36,589
Speaker 4: They never do that.

1735
01:14:36,670 --> 01:14:39,970
Speaker 2: They took an apartment's width and length of carpet and

1736
01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:41,370
Speaker 2: they were just like, all of it goes.

1737
01:14:42,210 --> 01:14:45,130
Speaker 3: Which is so cool because then they have everything. So

1738
01:14:45,170 --> 01:14:45,510
Speaker 3: this was.

1739
01:14:46,030 --> 01:14:50,180
Speaker 2: Girlie's new apartment after leaving her husband, who when she

1740
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:53,860
Speaker 2: said she was leaving him, went crazy on her, told

1741
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:58,580
Speaker 2: her that he could make her disappear. And when she

1742
01:14:58,700 --> 01:15:03,500
Speaker 2: finally actually got that apartment, left their apartment, was when

1743
01:15:03,540 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 2: she found him loosening the tires on her car.

1744
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:07,019
Speaker 4: Oh, no.

1745
01:15:07,620 --> 01:15:10,050
Speaker 2: She's like finds him doing that, runs to the neighbor's

1746
01:15:10,060 --> 01:15:13,170
Speaker 2: house and then goes and is like in hiding, essentially.

1747
01:15:13,810 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 2: So she gets a new apartment. Um, they, the cops

1748
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:19,620
Speaker 2: know that she would have never let him into that apartment.

1749
01:15:20,100 --> 01:15:22,030
Speaker 2: And so they know that when they're looking for trace

1750
01:15:22,090 --> 01:15:25,250
Speaker 2: evidence on that carpeting, um, that that's going to be

1751
01:15:25,290 --> 01:15:27,870
Speaker 2: a key thing, which is like all of that is

1752
01:15:27,910 --> 01:15:29,470
Speaker 2: just like cop stuff.

1753
01:15:29,710 --> 01:15:30,010
Speaker 1: Love it.

1754
01:15:30,350 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 3: Um, also, so one of the main reasons that she

1755
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 3: filed for divorce, they got married in 1995. Okay.

1756
01:15:36,340 --> 01:15:36,700
Speaker 4: Three. Three.

1757
01:15:36,900 --> 01:15:39,580
Speaker 3: I mean, 1993. That's what I meant. 1995.

1758
01:15:39,580 --> 01:15:39,820
Speaker 2: Three.

1759
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:48,540
Speaker 3: Um, they met in the night, in the early nineties

1760
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 3: at SeaWorld. How?

1761
01:15:50,380 --> 01:15:51,520
Speaker 4: Cute. How?

1762
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:52,380
Speaker 3: No, but not cute.

1763
01:15:52,740 --> 01:15:54,340
Speaker 4: I mean, also it's.

1764
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 2: Bad for orcas, but how do you meet someone at SeaWorld? Um,

1765
01:15:58,430 --> 01:16:04,650
Speaker 2: they get married in 1993 because her husband, a man named,

1766
01:16:05,229 --> 01:16:07,650
Speaker 2: and I'm not kidding, Dyson Hossenkoft.

1767
01:16:08,050 --> 01:16:08,570
Speaker 4: Jesus.

1768
01:16:09,050 --> 01:16:12,670
Speaker 2: Um, he is, he tells her that he's a geneticist

1769
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:15,290
Speaker 2: and a doctor and, um.

1770
01:16:16,689 --> 01:16:20,070
Speaker 3: That he helps people who have cancer. He has a

1771
01:16:20,900 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 3: very advanced, like, what do you call it? An advanced, like,

1772
01:16:28,900 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 3: serum that can cure cancer. And that he can't get it. Like,

1773
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,150
Speaker 3: he had this whole story about it. And he actually,

1774
01:16:35,170 --> 01:16:36,010
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1775
01:16:35,950 --> 01:16:38,570
Speaker 2: If he told her, but later on he told people that,

1776
01:16:38,630 --> 01:16:40,710
Speaker 2: because he, of course, he was a con man. He

1777
01:16:40,750 --> 01:16:44,059
Speaker 2: was not any of the things that I've said. He

1778
01:16:44,100 --> 01:16:47,010
Speaker 2: told people he cured his own cancer, and that's how

1779
01:16:47,050 --> 01:16:49,870
Speaker 2: he knew that the serum worked. And that's how he

1780
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:52,980
Speaker 2: sold it to people who were dying of cancer, who

1781
01:16:53,020 --> 01:16:56,580
Speaker 2: he built for thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

1782
01:16:56,860 --> 01:17:01,059
Speaker 2: So he's an insane person. And but he is like

1783
01:17:01,100 --> 01:17:02,490
Speaker 2: a con man extraordinaire.

1784
01:17:02,570 --> 01:17:02,750
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1785
01:17:02,810 --> 01:17:03,769
Speaker 3: The cops at one point in.

1786
01:17:03,729 --> 01:17:06,650
Speaker 2: This special talk about how he actually at one point

1787
01:17:06,770 --> 01:17:09,650
Speaker 2: joined up with a second con man and con that

1788
01:17:09,710 --> 01:17:10,590
Speaker 2: con man out.

1789
01:17:10,490 --> 01:17:12,170
Speaker 3: Of thousands of dollars. Are you fucking kidding me?

1790
01:17:12,189 --> 01:17:12,330
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1791
01:17:12,370 --> 01:17:16,150
Speaker 2: So he's like a diabolical lunatic. And anyone who's seen

1792
01:17:16,170 --> 01:17:18,730
Speaker 2: this because this is an old and very famous case,

1793
01:17:18,910 --> 01:17:23,450
Speaker 2: he really tries to play the.

1794
01:17:21,970 --> 01:17:23,470
Speaker 3: Part of the of the.

1795
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 2: Of the evil when he's finally in court, he's really

1796
01:17:28,100 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 2: kind of trying to do a Richard Ramirez, Charles Manson.

1797
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,979
Speaker 2: Like I'm the evil genius behind all this stuff. Why?

1798
01:17:34,050 --> 01:17:35,309
Speaker 4: Cause he just needs a recognition.

1799
01:17:35,650 --> 01:17:36,110
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1800
01:17:36,210 --> 01:17:41,740
Speaker 2: So he went to college, um, And he studied science

1801
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,740
Speaker 2: in college, but he didn't get into med school. And

1802
01:17:44,780 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 2: that's when it turned. So he basically... It turned into

1803
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 2: this weird con man fantasy life as if if I

1804
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:51,849
Speaker 2: had gone to med school, this is what I would

1805
01:17:51,890 --> 01:17:52,230
Speaker 2: have done.

1806
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:53,990
Speaker 3: And these are the things I'm doing. So I'm going

1807
01:17:54,010 --> 01:17:56,990
Speaker 3: to get some cards printed up and tell everybody that

1808
01:17:57,030 --> 01:17:59,570
Speaker 3: I'm a geneticist, right? And that I have.

1809
01:17:59,970 --> 01:18:02,229
Speaker 2: He not only told people he had the cure for cancer,

1810
01:18:02,610 --> 01:18:04,450
Speaker 2: but he also made a lot of money and met

1811
01:18:04,470 --> 01:18:06,730
Speaker 2: a lot of women telling them that he had.

1812
01:18:07,180 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 3: This basically like a fountain of youth serum.

1813
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:09,780
Speaker 4: Oh, my God.

1814
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:13,700
Speaker 2: And in this special, one of the best parts, one

1815
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:17,060
Speaker 2: of his ex-girlfriends, who he was, by the way, he

1816
01:18:17,970 --> 01:18:20,950
Speaker 2: was engaged to one. He was engaged to a couple,

1817
01:18:21,270 --> 01:18:23,970
Speaker 2: but he was seeing three other women while he was

1818
01:18:24,030 --> 01:18:25,090
Speaker 2: married to Girly Chu.

1819
01:18:25,530 --> 01:18:28,060
Speaker 3: And that's what she found out, that he was basically.

1820
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:31,170
Speaker 2: all over the map with these women and she was

1821
01:18:31,210 --> 01:18:33,470
Speaker 2: just like I'm out of here like go fuck yourself

1822
01:18:33,490 --> 01:18:35,309
Speaker 2: and then he went crazy because he was like oh

1823
01:18:35,350 --> 01:18:38,620
Speaker 2: I thought because you're from Malaysia I thought you were

1824
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:41,260
Speaker 2: going to be subservient and submissive and like not fight

1825
01:18:41,300 --> 01:18:43,340
Speaker 2: me and just take care of business and she was

1826
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:44,650
Speaker 2: like go fuck yourself yeah.

1827
01:18:45,689 --> 01:18:46,500
Speaker 3: That's not a quote.

1828
01:18:46,780 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 2: So the girlfriend who Daizen Hassenkoff, oh, by the way,

1829
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:55,780
Speaker 2: his real name is Armando Chavez.

1830
01:18:56,740 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 4: A lot of names happening.

1831
01:18:58,300 --> 01:19:02,150
Speaker 2: He made up the name Daizen Hassenkoff because he believed

1832
01:19:02,170 --> 01:19:05,730
Speaker 2: that Germans and Japanese are the master races, which is

1833
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 2: a very new approach to supremacies um so he made

1834
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,700
Speaker 2: up a name that was an amalgam of both i

1835
01:19:14,740 --> 01:19:15,380
Speaker 2: bet you he.

1836
01:19:15,420 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 4: Owned like nazi memorabilia or something like so obnoxious or

1837
01:19:18,820 --> 01:19:20,979
Speaker 4: something like that yeah probably.

1838
01:19:20,939 --> 01:19:23,470
Speaker 2: Yeah but he's armando chavez like he has no business

1839
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 2: being in the world of who's the master race Like, buddy,

1840
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:30,590
Speaker 2: this works against you in every way. In his claim

1841
01:19:30,810 --> 01:19:34,930
Speaker 2: of having this anti-aging treatment that also eventually you come

1842
01:19:34,950 --> 01:19:36,730
Speaker 2: to find out that he was also telling people it

1843
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:37,620
Speaker 2: would make you immortal.

1844
01:19:39,090 --> 01:19:41,830
Speaker 4: That's where I'm getting off of this. I couldn't train.

1845
01:19:41,850 --> 01:19:43,310
Speaker 3: Oh, you were, you were on until then?

1846
01:19:43,410 --> 01:19:44,010
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1847
01:19:44,090 --> 01:19:46,770
Speaker 3: You were good with bilking cancer patients? No, I was,

1848
01:19:46,990 --> 01:19:48,810
Speaker 3: I thought it worked. Oh, I see. But now I

1849
01:19:48,830 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 3: don't think it works.

1850
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:49,980
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1851
01:19:50,310 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 3: Here's why else you, you won't think it works.

1852
01:19:52,340 --> 01:19:52,540
Speaker 4: Okay.

1853
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 2: And this is according to Julie McGuire, who's in this

1854
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,300
Speaker 2: special and she is, she is, has a story to tell.

1855
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 2: But she immediately, like on the outset, it was like,

1856
01:20:02,939 --> 01:20:04,700
Speaker 2: I have this youth serum. And if you, if you

1857
01:20:04,740 --> 01:20:07,220
Speaker 2: do this, you know, it's going to make you, it's.

1858
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:11,729
Speaker 3: Going to, she said it's, He said it stopped cell growth, like, entirely,

1859
01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:13,309
Speaker 3: which I don't think would be good for you. That's

1860
01:20:13,330 --> 01:20:15,150
Speaker 3: like death. Then your cells are dead. Yeah, I think

1861
01:20:15,170 --> 01:20:19,370
Speaker 3: that means you die. Yeah. But he eventually let her

1862
01:20:19,410 --> 01:20:24,150
Speaker 3: in on his secret, which was that the drug he

1863
01:20:24,189 --> 01:20:24,790
Speaker 3: was giving.

1864
01:20:24,590 --> 01:20:27,510
Speaker 2: Her was created by aliens to stop cell growth so

1865
01:20:27,530 --> 01:20:28,850
Speaker 2: that they could travel.

1866
01:20:28,550 --> 01:20:31,290
Speaker 3: From planet to planet and not have it impact them.

1867
01:20:31,310 --> 01:20:36,090
Speaker 4: Can you imagine if you're like... her and you were like,

1868
01:20:36,290 --> 01:20:39,090
Speaker 4: here I am. I'm on board with this second, this

1869
01:20:39,430 --> 01:20:42,470
Speaker 4: anti-aging thing. Got it. And then someone, this person's like, well,

1870
01:20:42,490 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 4: let me let you in on a secret. And it's

1871
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,620
Speaker 4: like aliens. And you're like, oh shit. Yeah.

1872
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 2: It's almost like that's when you make that decision. And

1873
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:51,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, am I just going to go all in

1874
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 2: on this and like push all my.

1875
01:20:53,060 --> 01:20:54,480
Speaker 4: Chips into the middle of the table? Because at this

1876
01:20:54,500 --> 01:20:57,089
Speaker 4: point I can't be like, I can't. Then I look

1877
01:20:57,100 --> 01:20:58,990
Speaker 4: fucking stupid if I'm like, guess what? I got out

1878
01:20:59,010 --> 01:21:00,950
Speaker 4: of this thing because he ended up being crazy. And

1879
01:21:00,990 --> 01:21:02,710
Speaker 4: all your friends are like, we knew he was crazy. Yeah.

1880
01:21:02,810 --> 01:21:04,099
Speaker 3: You have to double down on it.

1881
01:21:04,250 --> 01:21:06,530
Speaker 2: But you have to remember this. You never have to

1882
01:21:06,570 --> 01:21:08,500
Speaker 2: double down. You can always get out of it because

1883
01:21:08,740 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 2: think of any friend you have. They've always had a

1884
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 2: worse boyfriend than the boyfriend you're talking about. And also

1885
01:21:13,460 --> 01:21:14,900
Speaker 2: who gives a fuck what anybody thinks.

1886
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:15,060
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1887
01:21:15,300 --> 01:21:16,610
Speaker 3: You've got to get out of that shit when you can.

1888
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,019
Speaker 4: You're allowed fuck-ups in your life, and it's okay.

1889
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 2: Even at Julie McGuire's age, where she was like, and

1890
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:26,990
Speaker 2: she didn't actually, when she's talking about this in this special,

1891
01:21:27,510 --> 01:21:29,550
Speaker 2: she clearly knew he was insane.

1892
01:21:29,770 --> 01:21:31,530
Speaker 3: Because, you know, I.

1893
01:21:31,510 --> 01:21:33,770
Speaker 2: Don't think she thought, the way she was saying it anyway,

1894
01:21:33,810 --> 01:21:34,370
Speaker 2: maybe she did.

1895
01:21:34,729 --> 01:21:36,969
Speaker 3: But she still went along with it? Well, she wanted

1896
01:21:36,990 --> 01:21:38,350
Speaker 3: them beauty treatments, girl.

1897
01:21:39,370 --> 01:21:42,010
Speaker 4: There is no magic here except for Botox. I have

1898
01:21:42,030 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 4: to keep telling you. Why must I.

1899
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,060
Speaker 3: Keep telling everyone this? Why must? I preach the word.

1900
01:21:47,500 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 2: But also they found out that his magic treatment was

1901
01:21:50,820 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 2: vitamin B12.

1902
01:21:51,380 --> 01:21:51,640
Speaker 1: Ooh.

1903
01:21:52,860 --> 01:21:56,090
Speaker 3: And he was making women pay thousands and thousands.

1904
01:21:55,790 --> 01:21:57,189
Speaker 4: Of dollars for it. Oh, man.

1905
01:21:57,810 --> 01:22:01,590
Speaker 2: So he also fathered a son with a woman in

1906
01:22:01,650 --> 01:22:04,550
Speaker 2: Canada in 1996. These are all the things Girly Chew

1907
01:22:04,610 --> 01:22:07,330
Speaker 2: is finding out. And he was, oh yeah, engaged to

1908
01:22:07,390 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 2: three different women while he was married to her.

1909
01:22:09,990 --> 01:22:10,450
Speaker 4: Jesus.

1910
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:12,860
Speaker 3: Including one. No, no, no.

1911
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:17,460
Speaker 2: He's short and he looks like a character actor did he.

1912
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,560
Speaker 4: Pretend to be it's just that what were they after

1913
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,139
Speaker 4: i think he has not that that was a horrible

1914
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 4: thing to say what was.

1915
01:22:24,300 --> 01:22:28,620
Speaker 2: The attraction i think he has that that sparkly glow

1916
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:33,890
Speaker 2: of a psychotic person i mean honestly they're fascinating like

1917
01:22:33,970 --> 01:22:34,809
Speaker 2: it's this guy's the.

1918
01:22:34,770 --> 01:22:36,910
Speaker 3: Kind of guy he was super smart someone quote that

1919
01:22:37,170 --> 01:22:40,170
Speaker 3: he has that psychotic he has that sparkly glow of

1920
01:22:40,210 --> 01:22:43,350
Speaker 3: a psychotic person is my favorite When you meet a

1921
01:22:43,410 --> 01:22:46,839
Speaker 3: truly crazy person, it's a breath of fresh air. When

1922
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:49,380
Speaker 3: they're like, I'm not crazy in the way that I

1923
01:22:49,420 --> 01:22:53,540
Speaker 3: need to be hospitalized or medical help, but I'm a diabolical...

1924
01:22:52,939 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 3: And I.

1925
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 4: Believe my own bullshit. Yes.

1926
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 2: And I believe that I can trick you. There's an

1927
01:22:58,140 --> 01:23:00,740
Speaker 2: energy to that. And also when con men are trying

1928
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 2: to con you, you get focused attention, which lots of

1929
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:08,099
Speaker 2: people want and don't get. So suddenly you have... Even

1930
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 2: if it, no matter what the face looks like or

1931
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:12,099
Speaker 2: the height or the weight or whatever.

1932
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:12,580
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right.

1933
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:14,480
Speaker 3: You have a person that's got like, kind of like.

1934
01:23:14,820 --> 01:23:16,019
Speaker 4: Dialed into your shit.

1935
01:23:16,090 --> 01:23:18,970
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you hung the moon and suddenly you're like,

1936
01:23:19,010 --> 01:23:19,670
Speaker 2: maybe I did.

1937
01:23:19,729 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 3: I don't know. Give me some of that B12.

1938
01:23:21,150 --> 01:23:22,710
Speaker 4: I was kind of wondering if I hung the moon.

1939
01:23:22,729 --> 01:23:25,550
Speaker 3: Because I felt special. I've always felt special. I've always

1940
01:23:25,570 --> 01:23:28,370
Speaker 3: felt like I had this gift. So you've got to

1941
01:23:28,410 --> 01:23:28,970
Speaker 3: be careful.

1942
01:23:28,990 --> 01:23:29,229
Speaker 4: Okay.

1943
01:23:29,350 --> 01:23:31,469
Speaker 3: If people are like, you're really special.

1944
01:23:31,570 --> 01:23:31,769
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1945
01:23:32,410 --> 01:23:34,910
Speaker 3: That's fucking, that's the biggest red flag of all. Because

1946
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 3: you're fucking not special. And neither am I.

1947
01:23:38,110 --> 01:23:39,950
Speaker 4: None of us are. Amen.

1948
01:23:40,090 --> 01:23:43,970
Speaker 3: And A-A. That's what you learn in A-A.

1949
01:23:44,410 --> 01:23:44,650
Speaker 1: Okay.

1950
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:48,510
Speaker 3: So that's when Gurley's like, oh, you're engaged to three

1951
01:23:48,530 --> 01:23:50,910
Speaker 3: other women. I've got to go. Peace.

1952
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:51,370
Speaker 1: Okay.

1953
01:23:51,410 --> 01:23:55,670
Speaker 2: So when the police go to interview Daizen, and I

1954
01:23:55,729 --> 01:23:57,090
Speaker 2: might be pronouncing that slightly wrong.

1955
01:23:57,770 --> 01:23:59,050
Speaker 4: It's not real, so it's okay.

1956
01:23:59,070 --> 01:23:59,350
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1957
01:24:01,229 --> 01:24:03,970
Speaker 2: It's his idea of what a Japanese name is, which

1958
01:24:04,030 --> 01:24:07,220
Speaker 2: is like, It sounds like a bad VCR that you

1959
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,540
Speaker 2: would have bought in 1987. I was thinking the exact electronic.

1960
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 3: High five that foot.

1961
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 4: You high fived my foot.

1962
01:24:14,700 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 3: They go to Daizan's house. His house is empty.

1963
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 2: They find out he moved out the day before she,

1964
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:25,220
Speaker 2: girly Chu went missing. And so they put out an

1965
01:24:25,300 --> 01:24:26,860
Speaker 2: APB for his now.

1966
01:24:27,260 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 3: Oh, points bulletin.

1967
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 4: I love that.

1968
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 2: Right.

1969
01:24:29,740 --> 01:24:35,440
Speaker 3: For his car. He's a fake doctor. Fake, though. Also

1970
01:24:35,450 --> 01:24:40,860
Speaker 3: a con man. Also a polygamist or whatever you call that,

1971
01:24:40,939 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 3: a bigamist if you've.

1972
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 2: Married tons of people. What kind of what kind of

1973
01:24:44,380 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 2: car color and make do you think he drove?

1974
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 4: Oh, God, a fucking red Trans Am. Yeah.

1975
01:24:49,900 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 3: It was a whitey Zuzu. There was no way to...

1976
01:24:52,060 --> 01:24:53,939
Speaker 3: It was too obscure, but I just thought it'd be fun.

1977
01:24:54,740 --> 01:24:56,559
Speaker 4: No, I mean, okay. If we were going that way,

1978
01:24:56,580 --> 01:24:58,640
Speaker 4: I would have guessed, like, Subaru or something.

1979
01:24:58,700 --> 01:25:01,420
Speaker 2: For some reason, when they said in the special, they

1980
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,269
Speaker 2: put out the all-points bulletin for his white Zuzu, I

1981
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:06,030
Speaker 2: laughed out loud in my TV room.

1982
01:25:07,790 --> 01:25:08,070
Speaker 4: I love it.

1983
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:10,090
Speaker 3: A TV room is separate than the dining and living room.

1984
01:25:10,110 --> 01:25:12,710
Speaker 3: I guess I don't know what an Zuzu looks like. Well,

1985
01:25:12,750 --> 01:25:15,990
Speaker 3: I was thinking a Zuzu Trooper, which looks like the

1986
01:25:16,030 --> 01:25:16,890
Speaker 3: poor man's Jeep.

1987
01:25:16,990 --> 01:25:17,930
Speaker 4: It's just a family car.

1988
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 2: It's no, it's kind of like a well, the one

1989
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of is almost like I'm going to college

1990
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 2: and my dad wanted to give me this.

1991
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:31,420
Speaker 3: OK, OK. We don't know what that's like. Oh, I

1992
01:25:31,420 --> 01:25:31,660
Speaker 3: have us.

1993
01:25:32,220 --> 01:25:36,469
Speaker 2: OK, so here's when they're searching his place, they find out.

1994
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,940
Speaker 2: that he belonged to a UFO Believers Club. And so

1995
01:25:40,979 --> 01:25:43,229
Speaker 2: they have to go down to the UFO Believers Club

1996
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:44,310
Speaker 2: and start interviewing some people.

1997
01:25:44,350 --> 01:25:45,689
Speaker 4: That's got to be a fun day.

1998
01:25:45,970 --> 01:25:49,810
Speaker 2: This is the thing where I want this special. Like

1999
01:25:49,830 --> 01:25:52,070
Speaker 2: if we start really making the kind of true crime

2000
01:25:52,110 --> 01:25:55,640
Speaker 2: specials that everybody wants, you get all those cops together

2001
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:57,700
Speaker 2: and you're like, so tell us about the UFO Believers Club.

2002
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,900
Speaker 3: Tell us about each and every in detail about them.

2003
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 2: Because you know there were some people who were wonderful

2004
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:05,930
Speaker 2: and hilarious and brilliant.

2005
01:26:05,950 --> 01:26:06,210
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2006
01:26:06,430 --> 01:26:08,290
Speaker 3: And then, you know, there's some people who are like

2007
01:26:08,310 --> 01:26:08,930
Speaker 3: the people.

2008
01:26:09,530 --> 01:26:11,270
Speaker 4: Who want to keep like, I know more. I can

2009
01:26:11,290 --> 01:26:13,610
Speaker 4: give you information. Those fucking nosy Nellies.

2010
01:26:13,729 --> 01:26:16,940
Speaker 3: And then there were some people who are like, join

2011
01:26:16,979 --> 01:26:22,519
Speaker 3: me on Saturn. So they go talk to the people.

2012
01:26:22,660 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 2: And one of the first people they meet is a

2013
01:26:24,140 --> 01:26:27,540
Speaker 2: woman named Linda Henning. Who they later find out he

2014
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 2: was engaged to.

2015
01:26:28,220 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 3: Of course he was. So Linda Henning, they don't think

2016
01:26:30,420 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 3: much of her at first.

2017
01:26:31,340 --> 01:26:34,560
Speaker 2: Linda Henning, and we all probably know this, but if

2018
01:26:34,580 --> 01:26:35,639
Speaker 2: you haven't seen any of these specials.

2019
01:26:35,660 --> 01:26:37,300
Speaker 3: I don't know this one. Oh, you don't? I don't

2020
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 3: know this.

2021
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:38,260
Speaker 4: Oh.

2022
01:26:39,270 --> 01:26:39,590
Speaker 3: Yay.

2023
01:26:39,780 --> 01:26:40,599
Speaker 4: Tell me everything.

2024
01:26:40,620 --> 01:26:44,030
Speaker 2: Because you will love Linda Henning. I highly recommend that

2025
01:26:44,050 --> 01:26:47,530
Speaker 2: you go back. There's video of her talking. She is

2026
01:26:47,590 --> 01:26:48,270
Speaker 2: one of those people.

2027
01:26:48,290 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 4: I can't go back. You can't find it.

2028
01:26:51,450 --> 01:26:54,740
Speaker 2: There's individual videos of her talking. Being interviewed by the

2029
01:26:54,820 --> 01:26:56,360
Speaker 2: news because she got arrested.

2030
01:26:56,390 --> 01:26:56,780
Speaker 4: Okay.

2031
01:26:57,229 --> 01:27:01,309
Speaker 3: And she is, I don't, I won't diagnose her.

2032
01:27:01,330 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 4: Do it.

2033
01:27:03,490 --> 01:27:06,070
Speaker 2: If it was my mom, my mom would be like, oh, she's,

2034
01:27:06,410 --> 01:27:09,050
Speaker 2: she's gone organic. I think she might be, she might

2035
01:27:09,070 --> 01:27:12,490
Speaker 2: be schizophrenic. But she has a lot of those things

2036
01:27:12,510 --> 01:27:14,990
Speaker 2: where she looks like the woman who's the star, the

2037
01:27:15,130 --> 01:27:17,189
Speaker 2: stewardess or the air hostess in the airplane.

2038
01:27:17,220 --> 01:27:20,800
Speaker 3: Her name's Julie something. With the long hair. She's like

2039
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:21,719
Speaker 3: a 70s, 80s actress.

2040
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

2041
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:24,740
Speaker 3: She looks almost exactly like that woman.

2042
01:27:24,780 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 2: She's like actress beautiful, big hair, you know, like, and

2043
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:33,099
Speaker 2: she had, she's of course from Hollywood. She had been

2044
01:27:33,140 --> 01:27:35,059
Speaker 2: a model and then she was a fashion designer.

2045
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:36,179
Speaker 3: Now she's in New.

2046
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:39,900
Speaker 2: Mexico with her fucking government UFO conspiracies.

2047
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:42,559
Speaker 3: And she is a serious believer. So they keep on.

2048
01:27:42,860 --> 01:27:45,420
Speaker 2: Pulling up these clips of her holding up a drawing

2049
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:49,340
Speaker 2: that she drew herself going insane. um these are the

2050
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:53,210
Speaker 2: lizard people that run our government and she's completely serious

2051
01:27:53,310 --> 01:27:56,929
Speaker 2: and seems almost like a newscaster like convincing what.

2052
01:27:56,830 --> 01:27:59,610
Speaker 3: If she's right she could be right there's other.

2053
01:27:59,490 --> 01:28:02,090
Speaker 2: People that think this is not just her right um

2054
01:28:02,490 --> 01:28:06,090
Speaker 2: but she has an intensity and she's also twitchy oh

2055
01:28:06,150 --> 01:28:08,460
Speaker 2: no yeah so she's got a little bit of that

2056
01:28:08,500 --> 01:28:12,220
Speaker 2: like you can see her resetting herself to normalcy that

2057
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 2: i was enjoying watching you can't.

2058
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:19,490
Speaker 4: Take someone seriously as Who's spouting about aliens and twitching

2059
01:28:19,530 --> 01:28:20,260
Speaker 4: at the same time.

2060
01:28:20,270 --> 01:28:22,540
Speaker 3: Those two things don't go hand in hand. I have

2061
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:23,380
Speaker 3: to say this.

2062
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 2: The twitching was subtle, but that was my, you know,

2063
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 2: when I'm collecting all the information so I can do

2064
01:28:28,900 --> 01:28:31,759
Speaker 2: the one woman show about her. There will be subtle

2065
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:37,099
Speaker 2: twitching in it. Also, her theory is like lizard people

2066
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:44,070
Speaker 2: run the government and... also, uh, Masons are all lizard people.

2067
01:28:44,090 --> 01:28:44,350
Speaker 1: Okay.

2068
01:28:44,570 --> 01:28:46,750
Speaker 3: Which I'm interested in. Like, tell me what you got.

2069
01:28:46,890 --> 01:28:47,290
Speaker 4: I see it.

2070
01:28:47,530 --> 01:28:49,570
Speaker 3: But all she did was, in this thing, she had a.

2071
01:28:49,870 --> 01:28:52,210
Speaker 2: She had drawn a triangle on a piece of paper

2072
01:28:52,290 --> 01:28:53,910
Speaker 2: and she had put a circle inside and she went,

2073
01:28:54,250 --> 01:28:55,549
Speaker 2: this is the mason symbol.

2074
01:28:55,689 --> 01:28:56,230
Speaker 4: Oh, my God.

2075
01:28:56,290 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 3: And I was just like, no, it's not, actually. It's

2076
01:28:58,570 --> 01:28:59,910
Speaker 3: a pyramid with an eye on top of it.

2077
01:28:59,900 --> 01:29:02,019
Speaker 4: Is she the one who, like, will describe on a

2078
01:29:02,030 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 4: dollar bill, like, what's inside of all the... What every

2079
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 4: little thing means and then when you fold it this

2080
01:29:06,140 --> 01:29:08,580
Speaker 4: way and you see the little picture that comes out? Yes.

2081
01:29:08,620 --> 01:29:10,700
Speaker 3: I'm fucking down. I am down and ready for that.

2082
01:29:10,780 --> 01:29:12,900
Speaker 3: Get me a beer. Like, This is how the lizard

2083
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:14,740
Speaker 3: people are communicating through our money.

2084
01:29:14,780 --> 01:29:15,019
Speaker 4: Right.

2085
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 3: Talk to me about it. Folded up symbols on money.

2086
01:29:18,620 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 3: You're stupid. And then what?

2087
01:29:20,979 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2088
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:23,620
Speaker 2: And then what are you going to do? Then fold

2089
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:25,349
Speaker 2: it and show it to me. Okay, why don't we

2090
01:29:25,390 --> 01:29:25,900
Speaker 2: just talk?

2091
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:27,769
Speaker 4: All right. So.

2092
01:29:29,420 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 2: UFO Believers Club. I'm calling it that. I don't know

2093
01:29:32,100 --> 01:29:33,260
Speaker 2: what the actual name is.

2094
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:33,820
Speaker 4: Oh, OK.

2095
01:29:33,979 --> 01:29:35,870
Speaker 3: But I mean, it was people got together because they

2096
01:29:35,890 --> 01:29:36,830
Speaker 3: were like, this is real.

2097
01:29:36,850 --> 01:29:37,330
Speaker 4: No, I dig it.

2098
01:29:37,610 --> 01:29:40,469
Speaker 2: She had a when she joined the UFO Believers Club

2099
01:29:40,610 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 2: and then Dyson joined it as well. She was engaged

2100
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:46,320
Speaker 2: to be married to a different person. She immediately broke

2101
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:50,290
Speaker 2: up with him. And they started this love affair with Daizen.

2102
01:29:50,630 --> 01:29:55,130
Speaker 2: They bonded over their passionate belief in the impending alien

2103
01:29:55,310 --> 01:29:56,390
Speaker 2: takeover of our planet.

2104
01:29:56,510 --> 01:29:57,250
Speaker 3: And chicken wings.

2105
01:29:58,070 --> 01:30:00,430
Speaker 4: And their love of chicken wings. I want to put

2106
01:30:00,470 --> 01:30:01,229
Speaker 4: that into the script.

2107
01:30:02,830 --> 01:30:06,020
Speaker 3: And chicken wings. Wait, you like chicken wings?

2108
01:30:06,220 --> 01:30:08,180
Speaker 4: I love chicken wings.

2109
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 3: I've never met anyone that likes chicken wings.

2110
01:30:10,060 --> 01:30:11,160
Speaker 4: Wait, ranch or blue cheese?

2111
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

2112
01:30:11,740 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 3: It has to be blue cheese.

2113
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2114
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 3: Marry me.

2115
01:30:15,180 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 4: Okay.

2116
01:30:15,380 --> 01:30:20,050
Speaker 3: Okay. Um, so they go to interview Linda Henning.

2117
01:30:20,070 --> 01:30:20,349
Speaker 1: Okay.

2118
01:30:21,050 --> 01:30:24,019
Speaker 2: And because they're everyone in the UFO believers group is like, oh,

2119
01:30:24,030 --> 01:30:26,950
Speaker 2: Diozen's really good friends with Linda Henning and this other.

2120
01:30:26,790 --> 01:30:27,309
Speaker 4: Guy, Bill.

2121
01:30:27,330 --> 01:30:30,460
Speaker 3: They'll know. Go talk to them.

2122
01:30:31,180 --> 01:30:36,900
Speaker 2: Well, Linda Henning at her house, it seems totally normal, calm,

2123
01:30:37,500 --> 01:30:41,330
Speaker 2: kind of low key, but very quickly and start beginning

2124
01:30:41,370 --> 01:30:44,620
Speaker 2: to talk to these investigators later. She gives Daizen an

2125
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 2: alibi for the night that Gurley Chew went missing. And

2126
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:49,719
Speaker 2: basically tried to tell them she was with him all

2127
01:30:49,820 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 2: night except for one hour. And they're like, okay, well,

2128
01:30:53,340 --> 01:30:57,290
Speaker 2: that's a bit advanced for this conversation. So later on,

2129
01:30:57,890 --> 01:31:01,430
Speaker 2: they go to bring her in for questioning. And when

2130
01:31:01,470 --> 01:31:03,349
Speaker 2: she goes in for questioning, she gives them a hair sample,

2131
01:31:03,370 --> 01:31:07,849
Speaker 2: a DNA sample. But then when they ask about Daizen,

2132
01:31:08,610 --> 01:31:10,370
Speaker 2: she kind of acts like she doesn't know him that well.

2133
01:31:11,670 --> 01:31:15,370
Speaker 2: she can't, she's mispronouncing his name, um, calling him D

2134
01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:17,190
Speaker 2: or doc instead of his name. Cause she says she

2135
01:31:17,229 --> 01:31:21,750
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to pronounce it, which I relate to. Um, but, uh,

2136
01:31:22,370 --> 01:31:24,950
Speaker 2: she claims she has no idea where he is and

2137
01:31:24,990 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 2: that she's never met girly. She doesn't know where she is.

2138
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:32,080
Speaker 2: Doesn't know anything about her. Um, but then when they

2139
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 2: talked to Linda's coworkers, they find out that she's told

2140
01:31:36,020 --> 01:31:39,680
Speaker 2: them her and Dyson are about to get married. So, uh,

2141
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:43,460
Speaker 2: When the police go back around to talk to Linda

2142
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:45,420
Speaker 2: and ask her some follow up questions at her home,

2143
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:50,809
Speaker 2: she's not there. And she they're calling her saying, go

2144
01:31:50,850 --> 01:31:53,250
Speaker 2: ahead and give us a call. She's avoiding them. So

2145
01:31:53,290 --> 01:31:56,530
Speaker 2: then they start surveilling her because they're like, what's going on?

2146
01:31:56,670 --> 01:31:59,710
Speaker 2: She's checked into a hotel. And then she moves hotels

2147
01:31:59,770 --> 01:32:02,020
Speaker 2: and then checks into another hotel. And she's basically, like,

2148
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 2: trying not to be found or seen. But what I

2149
01:32:05,180 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 2: love about that is that, like, it makes it sound like,

2150
01:32:07,460 --> 01:32:09,560
Speaker 2: and the cops were following her as she did it.

2151
01:32:10,180 --> 01:32:11,360
Speaker 4: We see you. Yes.

2152
01:32:11,660 --> 01:32:13,910
Speaker 2: You just went from a daze into a motel sex.

2153
01:32:13,950 --> 01:32:16,370
Speaker 2: This is not good criminal behavior.

2154
01:32:18,570 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 3: Okay, so... They search her car.

2155
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:23,059
Speaker 4: Oh, sorry.

2156
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:24,799
Speaker 3: When they go into her... They get a search warrant.

2157
01:32:24,939 --> 01:32:25,660
Speaker 3: They go into her house.

2158
01:32:26,530 --> 01:32:30,849
Speaker 2: Her house is filled with UFO conspiracy art that she

2159
01:32:30,890 --> 01:32:31,570
Speaker 2: has made herself.

2160
01:32:31,610 --> 01:32:33,170
Speaker 4: Oh, I bet it's gorgeous.

2161
01:32:33,310 --> 01:32:34,830
Speaker 3: You know what? It reminds me of.

2162
01:32:34,890 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 2: You know when you're in high school chemistry class and

2163
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:38,980
Speaker 2: you start doodling and you're like.

2164
01:32:39,020 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 3: Wait, I'm good at drawing.

2165
01:32:40,420 --> 01:32:41,380
Speaker 4: Yes.

2166
01:32:41,500 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 3: That's what it all looks like. It's like kind of like.

2167
01:32:46,460 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 2: It looks like women in cat suits, lizards with half

2168
01:32:51,060 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 2: human faces, but it's all like in a blue ballpoint pen.

2169
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 4: And she thinks it's important to like it's someone's communicating

2170
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 4: with her through it.

2171
01:32:57,900 --> 01:33:02,090
Speaker 3: She very much believes that this is real and it is.

2172
01:33:02,110 --> 01:33:02,790
Speaker 4: It's real.

2173
01:33:03,470 --> 01:33:06,490
Speaker 3: You can tell that it is a big problem for her.

2174
01:33:06,939 --> 01:33:09,640
Speaker 2: Like it's a concern and it's not, it's not fucking

2175
01:33:09,660 --> 01:33:11,260
Speaker 2: around overwhelming and it's not.

2176
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:11,580
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2177
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 2: She's like, she believes that our planet's being taken over

2178
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:17,340
Speaker 2: by aliens. She's one of the only people that knows

2179
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:22,030
Speaker 2: it's classic schizophrenic, like paranoid schizophrenia, but I won't, but

2180
01:33:22,070 --> 01:33:24,769
Speaker 2: I won't label it. But I like to theorize about

2181
01:33:24,810 --> 01:33:25,790
Speaker 2: people's mental status.

2182
01:33:25,950 --> 01:33:26,429
Speaker 4: It's fun.

2183
01:33:26,850 --> 01:33:28,630
Speaker 3: I just said status. Like I was British. I don't

2184
01:33:28,650 --> 01:33:29,650
Speaker 3: know why it's happening.

2185
01:33:30,620 --> 01:33:35,650
Speaker 2: But, yeah, her house is filled with this art. And

2186
01:33:35,689 --> 01:33:38,189
Speaker 2: also she's got a lot of colored art sand in

2187
01:33:38,229 --> 01:33:41,260
Speaker 2: her garage, which is really odd. They showed a picture

2188
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,720
Speaker 2: of her garage and... It's like, you know that thing

2189
01:33:43,740 --> 01:33:44,500
Speaker 2: where you're like, you know what.

2190
01:33:44,420 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 4: I'm going to get into? Yeah.

2191
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to get into art sand. I'm going to

2192
01:33:47,820 --> 01:33:49,769
Speaker 2: fill bottles with different colored sand.

2193
01:33:49,780 --> 01:33:52,650
Speaker 4: I'm going to sell it at the flea market.

2194
01:33:52,770 --> 01:33:55,570
Speaker 3: But it's like a bunch of crates full of it.

2195
01:33:55,590 --> 01:33:57,309
Speaker 3: So she didn't just get one kit.

2196
01:33:57,370 --> 01:33:57,710
Speaker 4: No.

2197
01:33:57,850 --> 01:33:58,790
Speaker 3: She was like into it.

2198
01:33:58,790 --> 01:33:59,890
Speaker 4: If you're really going to get into it, you have

2199
01:33:59,930 --> 01:34:01,809
Speaker 4: to spend $ 500 on it.

2200
01:34:01,910 --> 01:34:04,940
Speaker 3: You have to go to Joanne Fabrics all day. Yeah. Yeah.

2201
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:05,960
Speaker 3: You have to make a problem.

2202
01:34:06,970 --> 01:34:09,970
Speaker 4: So I did that once with cross with needlepoint.

2203
01:34:10,270 --> 01:34:11,849
Speaker 3: Did you really? I mean, I didn't spend that much

2204
01:34:11,890 --> 01:34:13,210
Speaker 3: money on it, but I was like, I'm going to

2205
01:34:13,229 --> 01:34:14,690
Speaker 3: get into this. I have to.

2206
01:34:14,850 --> 01:34:15,330
Speaker 4: No, I don't.

2207
01:34:15,990 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 2: I want I same with me and paint by numbers.

2208
01:34:18,770 --> 01:34:19,350
Speaker 4: Oh, that's fine.

2209
01:34:19,450 --> 01:34:22,640
Speaker 3: I'm going back. Do it. I think paper. Here's my

2210
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 3: only problem. If I'm going to sit at home and

2211
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:26,560
Speaker 3: do nothing, I'm going to do that.

2212
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 2: A watching TV and be laying down.

2213
01:34:29,060 --> 01:34:31,019
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do a project.

2214
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:31,540
Speaker 1: Why?

2215
01:34:32,060 --> 01:34:34,320
Speaker 3: Because I love to lay down. That's my project.

2216
01:34:34,340 --> 01:34:36,740
Speaker 4: What's a project you could do while you lay down? Sleep.

2217
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 3: Dream.

2218
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:39,900
Speaker 4: Catch up on sleep.

2219
01:34:40,060 --> 01:34:40,839
Speaker 3: Have some dreams.

2220
01:34:41,500 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 4: Okay.

2221
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:44,480
Speaker 2: So they go to her house. They find all this

2222
01:34:44,620 --> 01:34:47,800
Speaker 2: crazy fucking shit that makes them go. She's not your

2223
01:34:47,939 --> 01:34:52,120
Speaker 2: average member of the UFO Believers Club. She's taken the

2224
01:34:52,180 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 2: UFO Believers Club and she's in like a Harrison Ford

2225
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 2: movie level crisis with the UFO Believers where it's like

2226
01:34:59,960 --> 01:35:00,900
Speaker 2: impending doom.

2227
01:35:01,260 --> 01:35:02,980
Speaker 3: Very, very sad and awful.

2228
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:04,440
Speaker 4: Yeah. Sorry, I laughed.

2229
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:08,120
Speaker 3: No, I'm sorry. It's also, also the art is terrible.

2230
01:35:08,220 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 3: So it's just.

2231
01:35:09,220 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 4: I'm sorry I laughed.

2232
01:35:09,939 --> 01:35:10,939
Speaker 3: There's a lot of elements.

2233
01:35:11,050 --> 01:35:12,450
Speaker 4: Wishing her well. Okay, go on.

2234
01:35:13,110 --> 01:35:15,650
Speaker 3: No, you don't have to. She did bad things. Oh, good, good, good.

2235
01:35:16,330 --> 01:35:17,349
Speaker 3: Then they search her car.

2236
01:35:17,610 --> 01:35:20,170
Speaker 2: They find out it's just been washed and that there's

2237
01:35:20,189 --> 01:35:22,349
Speaker 2: a receipt for having her tires balanced.

2238
01:35:22,870 --> 01:35:24,350
Speaker 3: And the cops immediately.

2239
01:35:23,970 --> 01:35:28,750
Speaker 2: Think the area on that highway outside of Albuquerque where

2240
01:35:28,770 --> 01:35:33,650
Speaker 2: they found Girly Chew's bloody clothes was all crazy bumpy

2241
01:35:33,710 --> 01:35:36,950
Speaker 2: roads while road workers were out there. And if she

2242
01:35:36,990 --> 01:35:38,790
Speaker 2: drove out there, she would have to get her tires

2243
01:35:38,890 --> 01:35:47,300
Speaker 2: rebalanced when she came back. So they basically, the more

2244
01:35:47,340 --> 01:35:50,480
Speaker 2: they look into stuff, they find out. that when they

2245
01:35:50,500 --> 01:35:54,660
Speaker 2: look at Linda Henning's bank records, Linda Henning, who had

2246
01:35:54,740 --> 01:35:58,390
Speaker 2: claimed to not know Gurley Chew and never met her

2247
01:35:58,430 --> 01:36:02,350
Speaker 2: and know nothing about her, had actually switched banks and

2248
01:36:02,390 --> 01:36:05,990
Speaker 2: had started going to Gurley Chew's branch of her bank.

2249
01:36:06,630 --> 01:36:10,229
Speaker 2: And Gurley had been her teller at that bank several times.

2250
01:36:10,430 --> 01:36:12,229
Speaker 4: So she was like spying on her.

2251
01:36:12,250 --> 01:36:14,550
Speaker 2: She was up in her business big time and absolutely

2252
01:36:14,590 --> 01:36:15,229
Speaker 2: knew who she was.

2253
01:36:15,310 --> 01:36:17,650
Speaker 4: Uh-oh. Don't lie to the cops, dear.

2254
01:36:18,070 --> 01:36:23,380
Speaker 3: Ding dong you fucking lizard you're the lizard person I

2255
01:36:23,380 --> 01:36:25,900
Speaker 3: mean just in general like Especially when you're going to

2256
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:28,780
Speaker 3: be that obvious about it. If she was your bank teller,

2257
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:31,610
Speaker 3: don't fucking lie to the cops about it. Well, also,

2258
01:36:31,850 --> 01:36:33,910
Speaker 3: I guess it's different now because there are cameras everywhere

2259
01:36:33,970 --> 01:36:37,189
Speaker 3: now and stuff. But it's just that... When you see

2260
01:36:37,229 --> 01:36:40,290
Speaker 3: those people who... The people who make up.

2261
01:36:40,310 --> 01:36:43,030
Speaker 2: Crimes to do and thinking they're going to get away

2262
01:36:43,050 --> 01:36:45,710
Speaker 2: with it because they think they're smarter than cops where

2263
01:36:45,729 --> 01:36:47,480
Speaker 2: it's like, you're so not though.

2264
01:36:47,540 --> 01:36:49,700
Speaker 4: You're like one of the most stupid people we know.

2265
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:52,160
Speaker 4: But you think you're smarter than... Like the people who

2266
01:36:52,180 --> 01:36:53,740
Speaker 4: think they're smarter than the cops and can get away

2267
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:56,920
Speaker 4: with shit are the... most idiotic people.

2268
01:36:56,700 --> 01:37:01,400
Speaker 2: Yes also that makes our sorry quick sidebar my friend

2269
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:03,439
Speaker 2: bridger winneger and i went and saw a movie called

2270
01:37:03,460 --> 01:37:08,070
Speaker 2: american animals did you see the imposter that documentary it's

2271
01:37:08,110 --> 01:37:11,610
Speaker 2: the same director it's really fucking good and it's a

2272
01:37:11,670 --> 01:37:15,670
Speaker 2: true story about which one uh of these guys that

2273
01:37:15,689 --> 01:37:20,250
Speaker 2: tried to steal these really rare valuable audubon books from

2274
01:37:20,290 --> 01:37:23,150
Speaker 2: a college and And they were like college age themselves.

2275
01:37:23,170 --> 01:37:23,670
Speaker 4: Nerds.

2276
01:37:24,090 --> 01:37:26,150
Speaker 3: It's a really good movie. You have to go see it.

2277
01:37:26,189 --> 01:37:26,890
Speaker 3: Everyone has to go see it.

2278
01:37:26,910 --> 01:37:27,150
Speaker 4: Okay.

2279
01:37:27,310 --> 01:37:31,830
Speaker 2: Anyway, back to this piece of paper. Um, so then,

2280
01:37:31,850 --> 01:37:35,100
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure exactly where this happened in the timeline,

2281
01:37:35,490 --> 01:37:38,120
Speaker 2: but I'm throwing it in here. Our friend, Julie McGuire,

2282
01:37:38,340 --> 01:37:41,100
Speaker 2: who was getting the beauty treatments and was told that

2283
01:37:41,140 --> 01:37:43,799
Speaker 2: she was going to live forever. One of his girlfriends

2284
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:48,380
Speaker 2: called the police because, and told them that when she, uh,

2285
01:37:48,500 --> 01:37:53,070
Speaker 2: when girly two is missing, um, Daizen told her he

2286
01:37:53,830 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 2: was livid about that he was going to have to

2287
01:37:56,450 --> 01:38:00,240
Speaker 2: pay Gurley $ 60, 000 in their divorce settlement.

2288
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:02,889
Speaker 3: And he was like, out of his mind, livid about it.

2289
01:38:03,540 --> 01:38:05,940
Speaker 3: And he said... What?

2290
01:38:06,300 --> 01:38:07,020
Speaker 4: Sorry. Motive.

2291
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:09,830
Speaker 3: Yes. I thought you said noted.

2292
01:38:09,850 --> 01:38:11,530
Speaker 4: I was like, all right.

2293
01:38:12,410 --> 01:38:17,630
Speaker 3: You're listening? Good. He actually said to Julie... That that

2294
01:38:17,670 --> 01:38:19,710
Speaker 3: girly would never see a dime of that money that

2295
01:38:19,729 --> 01:38:21,849
Speaker 3: she was supposed to be getting because she was going

2296
01:38:21,870 --> 01:38:22,490
Speaker 3: to disappear.

2297
01:38:22,510 --> 01:38:26,370
Speaker 2: And don't do right. And then Julie said to him,

2298
01:38:26,390 --> 01:38:29,510
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? People like you can't make

2299
01:38:29,550 --> 01:38:32,760
Speaker 2: people disappear. the cops find them like that yeah and

2300
01:38:32,840 --> 01:38:35,800
Speaker 2: he said to her not if they're dissected.

2301
01:38:36,189 --> 01:38:37,850
Speaker 3: Shut up dude.

2302
01:38:37,470 --> 01:38:41,630
Speaker 2: Which is also but also that's such a weird anyway.

2303
01:38:40,530 --> 01:38:43,429
Speaker 4: And it's also not then she's like no yeah also

2304
01:38:43,490 --> 01:38:45,060
Speaker 4: if they're dissected Right.

2305
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:47,660
Speaker 3: And just in general, you're not going to get away

2306
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:47,889
Speaker 3: with it.

2307
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:51,700
Speaker 2: But anyway, we love Julie McGuire because she's like, guess what?

2308
01:38:51,780 --> 01:38:54,280
Speaker 3: That guy was my boyfriend, but this is bad, bad, bad.

2309
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:55,220
Speaker 4: Totally good for her.

2310
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:58,630
Speaker 2: So then the lab comes back with some results on

2311
01:38:58,670 --> 01:39:03,670
Speaker 2: that full apartment carpet that they pulled out of Gurley's apartment.

2312
01:39:05,330 --> 01:39:09,910
Speaker 3: They had small amounts of blood evidence. That they had found.

2313
01:39:10,310 --> 01:39:12,970
Speaker 2: And this was the reason they were like that they

2314
01:39:13,010 --> 01:39:15,420
Speaker 2: would have just cut out this strip that was just

2315
01:39:15,460 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 2: those three bloodstains because that blood was girly chews. But

2316
01:39:20,180 --> 01:39:22,790
Speaker 2: when they pull the whole carpet, they find bloodstains and

2317
01:39:22,810 --> 01:39:24,210
Speaker 2: the blood belongs to Linda Henning.

2318
01:39:25,110 --> 01:39:25,610
Speaker 3: What?

2319
01:39:25,689 --> 01:39:25,870
Speaker 2: Yes.

2320
01:39:26,610 --> 01:39:28,550
Speaker 3: And they weren't expecting it either. So they're just like,

2321
01:39:28,590 --> 01:39:33,290
Speaker 3: holy shit. So they now she's indicted for murder.

2322
01:39:33,530 --> 01:39:34,650
Speaker 4: Oh, my God.

2323
01:39:35,450 --> 01:39:39,229
Speaker 3: Daizen Hasenkopf is nowhere to be found. No one knows

2324
01:39:39,270 --> 01:39:39,640
Speaker 3: where he is.

2325
01:39:40,939 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 2: Then the police get a tip from one of his

2326
01:39:42,850 --> 01:39:45,620
Speaker 2: neighbors saying she had just gotten a call where he

2327
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:49,500
Speaker 2: threatened her and then hung up. And so the cops

2328
01:39:49,540 --> 01:39:53,350
Speaker 2: are like, dial star 69. And so she does.

2329
01:39:53,430 --> 01:39:53,750
Speaker 4: No.

2330
01:39:53,990 --> 01:39:56,510
Speaker 3: And yes. And it turns out he's in South Carolina.

2331
01:39:56,610 --> 01:39:57,290
Speaker 1: What?

2332
01:39:57,550 --> 01:39:59,720
Speaker 3: So the cops go arrest him. Yes.

2333
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:05,060
Speaker 2: So when I was in high school, when whatever it was,

2334
01:40:05,140 --> 01:40:07,760
Speaker 2: ATT or whoever did it, came out with that package

2335
01:40:07,780 --> 01:40:11,509
Speaker 2: where you could get call waiting, call forwarding and star 69.

2336
01:40:11,510 --> 01:40:15,470
Speaker 3: It changed lives. It changed everything. It was a really

2337
01:40:15,510 --> 01:40:18,570
Speaker 3: big deal. You couldn't print call anymore. Yes. Do you

2338
01:40:18,590 --> 01:40:20,870
Speaker 3: want to hear a celebrity secret?

2339
01:40:21,030 --> 01:40:21,189
Speaker 4: Yes.

2340
01:40:21,950 --> 01:40:27,090
Speaker 3: When I very first moved to town in 1994 or 5, 4, I.

2341
01:40:29,930 --> 01:40:31,750
Speaker 2: Had a big crush on Jack Black, who was in

2342
01:40:31,950 --> 01:40:32,969
Speaker 2: our social circle.

2343
01:40:33,090 --> 01:40:36,810
Speaker 3: Yeah. And one time I called. Somebody gave me his

2344
01:40:36,870 --> 01:40:39,120
Speaker 3: phone number. I don't know why. And I called it.

2345
01:40:39,310 --> 01:40:41,650
Speaker 3: And then when he answered, I hung up. You did not.

2346
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:43,000
Speaker 3: And he fucking starstruck.

2347
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:46,460
Speaker 4: No, he didn't. And I said. Did you know that

2348
01:40:46,500 --> 01:40:48,100
Speaker 4: he was doing that or did you just answer the

2349
01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:48,820
Speaker 4: phone like it was normal?

2350
01:40:49,560 --> 01:40:51,860
Speaker 2: I answered the phone because I think I was expecting

2351
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:52,800
Speaker 2: a call from somewhere else.

2352
01:40:52,820 --> 01:40:55,090
Speaker 4: Okay. And he doesn't think that he had started 69.

2353
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:55,780
Speaker 4: So you just picked it up.

2354
01:40:55,920 --> 01:40:56,540
Speaker 3: I picked it up.

2355
01:40:57,160 --> 01:40:59,600
Speaker 2: And then he goes, did you just call me? And

2356
01:40:59,620 --> 01:41:01,310
Speaker 2: I went, it was a mistake. And then I, I

2357
01:41:01,750 --> 01:41:05,130
Speaker 2: acted mad and was like, yeah, it was a mistake.

2358
01:41:05,250 --> 01:41:06,849
Speaker 2: And then I just hung up.

2359
01:41:06,970 --> 01:41:09,349
Speaker 4: That's the perfect, when you act mad, like you're annoyed

2360
01:41:09,370 --> 01:41:10,290
Speaker 4: with someone else.

2361
01:41:10,710 --> 01:41:14,729
Speaker 3: Yeah. And what'd he do? I don't know.

2362
01:41:15,110 --> 01:41:15,690
Speaker 4: I waited.

2363
01:41:16,030 --> 01:41:18,179
Speaker 2: We weren't that we didn't, I didn't know him that

2364
01:41:18,260 --> 01:41:20,740
Speaker 2: well at the time. So I just like held my

2365
01:41:20,780 --> 01:41:23,680
Speaker 2: breath and waited it out and then never, never heard back.

2366
01:41:23,700 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 4: And then the next time, ever since then, you've been weird.

2367
01:41:26,140 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 4: He's like, she's always weird around me. I don't know

2368
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:30,040
Speaker 4: what I did to piss her off. No, no, no.

2369
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 3: I think then we got to know each other after that.

2370
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:34,860
Speaker 2: And he was around and I, it was that kind

2371
01:41:34,900 --> 01:41:36,439
Speaker 2: of thing where I was like, maybe I did call

2372
01:41:36,470 --> 01:41:37,189
Speaker 2: your house and hang up.

2373
01:41:37,710 --> 01:41:38,269
Speaker 4: Maybe I did.

2374
01:41:38,290 --> 01:41:41,880
Speaker 2: Maybe that's how I expressed my intense love jack black

2375
01:41:42,150 --> 01:41:45,240
Speaker 2: who talk about i don't think he's psychotic but the

2376
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:47,500
Speaker 2: first time i met him it was like the whole

2377
01:41:47,540 --> 01:41:50,540
Speaker 2: rest of the room went away wow he's so dynamic

2378
01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:52,860
Speaker 2: well he's also so talented it was like they had

2379
01:41:52,900 --> 01:41:56,580
Speaker 2: just done tenacious d yeah you know three songs everyone's

2380
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:59,060
Speaker 2: like what who are these people and then just to

2381
01:41:59,100 --> 01:42:02,190
Speaker 2: talk to him in person he's just got charisma coming.

2382
01:42:02,050 --> 01:42:06,210
Speaker 4: Out aware of his telephone privacy.

2383
01:42:07,910 --> 01:42:09,980
Speaker 3: This has been Jack Black Corner. I don't know why

2384
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:13,299
Speaker 3: I'm talking about this. I'm trying to tell a story. Okay, so.

2385
01:42:14,620 --> 01:42:17,219
Speaker 2: They go to, they go bring him out of South Carolina,

2386
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:19,720
Speaker 2: his perfect hiding place, star 69 him out.

2387
01:42:20,650 --> 01:42:22,530
Speaker 3: Jack Black plays one of the cops that pulls him

2388
01:42:22,570 --> 01:42:26,330
Speaker 3: out of South Carolina. He had only been on the

2389
01:42:26,370 --> 01:42:30,410
Speaker 3: lam for three weeks, already living with a woman in, well,

2390
01:42:30,450 --> 01:42:32,370
Speaker 3: he was in South Carolina. What the fuck? This is

2391
01:42:32,390 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. You gotta, it's like.

2392
01:42:34,979 --> 01:42:38,549
Speaker 4: Everyone, we all need group therapy to like. get ourselves

2393
01:42:38,670 --> 01:42:40,250
Speaker 4: up that we don't need guys like this.

2394
01:42:40,900 --> 01:42:41,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2395
01:42:41,650 --> 01:42:43,600
Speaker 2: Or just be a guy like that. Like, what do

2396
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:45,360
Speaker 2: you do to get to be the person that can

2397
01:42:45,380 --> 01:42:46,800
Speaker 2: be on the lamp? First of all, you have all

2398
01:42:46,820 --> 01:42:48,640
Speaker 2: this stuff to do of like avoiding the police.

2399
01:42:48,820 --> 01:42:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2400
01:42:49,300 --> 01:42:51,769
Speaker 3: And then you kick up a relationship with some stranger.

2401
01:42:51,810 --> 01:42:55,010
Speaker 3: There's time for a little. You make time. I think

2402
01:42:55,030 --> 01:42:56,210
Speaker 3: that's what that's.

2403
01:42:59,120 --> 01:43:03,620
Speaker 2: Georgia just went, and then brought that can of wine

2404
01:43:03,660 --> 01:43:04,620
Speaker 2: right up to her lips.

2405
01:43:06,390 --> 01:43:07,330
Speaker 4: Tell me about it.

2406
01:43:07,390 --> 01:43:11,270
Speaker 3: Girl, tell me about being on the lambs and in relationships.

2407
01:43:11,350 --> 01:43:13,009
Speaker 3: All right. Sorry.

2408
01:43:13,930 --> 01:43:19,660
Speaker 2: So they find when he's arrested, he has Gurley Chu's

2409
01:43:19,820 --> 01:43:22,740
Speaker 2: address book and a piece of her jewelry, two things

2410
01:43:22,780 --> 01:43:24,820
Speaker 2: that she had not left at her house when she

2411
01:43:24,860 --> 01:43:27,640
Speaker 2: left him, Two things that she had on her person.

2412
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 3: So they were like, this is evidence.

2413
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:34,560
Speaker 2: They also, in the place where he was staying in

2414
01:43:34,620 --> 01:43:37,580
Speaker 2: South Carolina, they found guns and they found a steam

2415
01:43:37,620 --> 01:43:40,060
Speaker 2: cleaner with human blood in it. Ew.

2416
01:43:40,140 --> 01:43:41,550
Speaker 3: Trace evidence of human blood.

2417
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:41,620
Speaker 4: Ew.

2418
01:43:41,689 --> 01:43:45,450
Speaker 3: You stupid idiot. So they bring him back to New Mexico.

2419
01:43:45,530 --> 01:43:48,750
Speaker 2: He's charged with making interstate threats because that's the only

2420
01:43:48,830 --> 01:43:50,210
Speaker 2: concrete evidence that they have.

2421
01:43:50,770 --> 01:43:54,070
Speaker 3: Nothing ties to the murder. To hold him. But they

2422
01:43:54,090 --> 01:43:56,790
Speaker 3: can hold him for getting star 69.

2423
01:43:56,790 --> 01:44:02,139
Speaker 4: Calling his neighbor and being like, hey, don't tell anyone.

2424
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:07,340
Speaker 3: Hang up. All right. So they start.

2425
01:44:08,330 --> 01:44:10,990
Speaker 2: Looking around the area, going back to search because they're

2426
01:44:11,110 --> 01:44:13,440
Speaker 2: the basically now they need the body.

2427
01:44:14,300 --> 01:44:15,219
Speaker 3: Girly choose body.

2428
01:44:15,260 --> 01:44:18,280
Speaker 2: They have to find what has happened to her so

2429
01:44:18,300 --> 01:44:20,600
Speaker 2: that they can tie him in because they're like, this

2430
01:44:20,660 --> 01:44:22,700
Speaker 2: guy is, they like him for it.

2431
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:26,170
Speaker 3: As cops like to say, he's good for it, but

2432
01:44:26,210 --> 01:44:26,990
Speaker 3: they have no evidence.

2433
01:44:27,370 --> 01:44:31,890
Speaker 2: So when they go out to that desolate highway outside

2434
01:44:31,930 --> 01:44:36,180
Speaker 2: of fucking Albuquerque, the, The area on the sides of

2435
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 2: the highway is dotted with mines, abandoned mine shafts. And

2436
01:44:42,100 --> 01:44:44,760
Speaker 2: they said there's so many out there, and some of

2437
01:44:44,780 --> 01:44:47,800
Speaker 2: them are so deep that you throw a rock down

2438
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:49,260
Speaker 2: and you never hear anything.

2439
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:49,400
Speaker 3: What?

2440
01:44:49,460 --> 01:44:51,840
Speaker 2: So, like— what are at the bottom of those right

2441
01:44:52,100 --> 01:44:55,170
Speaker 2: so so the police tried to search some of them

2442
01:44:55,189 --> 01:44:57,670
Speaker 2: near where the clothes were found but after a while

2443
01:44:57,710 --> 01:44:59,490
Speaker 2: they were just like well we didn't find anything and

2444
01:44:59,970 --> 01:45:02,470
Speaker 2: you can't they're not even mapped there are so many

2445
01:45:02,530 --> 01:45:04,950
Speaker 2: mines out there yeah which i just that idea of

2446
01:45:05,229 --> 01:45:08,580
Speaker 2: that type of police where it's like that's nauseatingly yeah

2447
01:45:08,820 --> 01:45:10,939
Speaker 2: just endless searching.

2448
01:45:10,979 --> 01:45:13,920
Speaker 4: God um just the thought that you could throw something

2449
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:16,240
Speaker 4: down one of those and it'll never be seen again it's.

2450
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:20,810
Speaker 3: Like Yeah, it makes me feel empty. Yeah, it's very,

2451
01:45:21,570 --> 01:45:25,090
Speaker 3: it's very bad. Although, if you had say, say you

2452
01:45:25,150 --> 01:45:27,400
Speaker 3: wrote out a story about an embarrassing thing you did

2453
01:45:27,460 --> 01:45:29,780
Speaker 3: to Jack Black, you could ball that up and throw

2454
01:45:29,820 --> 01:45:31,320
Speaker 3: it down in a mine and not say it on

2455
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:31,919
Speaker 3: a podcast.

2456
01:45:33,380 --> 01:45:34,900
Speaker 4: But what's the fun in that?

2457
01:45:35,910 --> 01:45:38,170
Speaker 3: I went slept. Can I, I'll want me to. Yes.

2458
01:45:38,370 --> 01:45:41,910
Speaker 3: Your eyes just lit up. Maybe you're in my shame spiral.

2459
01:45:41,930 --> 01:45:43,689
Speaker 4: I'll give you one. I'll give you a good one.

2460
01:45:43,950 --> 01:45:46,390
Speaker 4: My friend and I called each other. We were on

2461
01:45:46,410 --> 01:45:48,070
Speaker 4: the phone with each other. I just dumped a dude.

2462
01:45:48,490 --> 01:45:49,900
Speaker 4: I was like 19. I just like broken up with

2463
01:45:49,939 --> 01:45:52,219
Speaker 4: a guy and we were on the phone and I

2464
01:45:52,260 --> 01:45:54,639
Speaker 4: was like, let's listen to his, like his voicemail. Like

2465
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:59,220
Speaker 4: his outgoing voicemail, like was like, our song and i

2466
01:45:59,220 --> 01:46:01,400
Speaker 4: was like look he changed his song let's call and

2467
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:04,080
Speaker 4: you can listen so we called and we listened to

2468
01:46:04,100 --> 01:46:05,720
Speaker 4: the voicemail and then we like we're like oh my

2469
01:46:05,740 --> 01:46:09,059
Speaker 4: god i can't believe it like i just feel bad

2470
01:46:09,100 --> 01:46:10,870
Speaker 4: and like i just don't like i wasn't attracted to

2471
01:46:10,890 --> 01:46:12,550
Speaker 4: him like just like talking talking shit and then it

2472
01:46:12,570 --> 01:46:16,170
Speaker 4: was like your message has been sent no i forgot

2473
01:46:16,189 --> 01:46:20,750
Speaker 4: to hang up after we listened to his fucking outgoing voicemail.

2474
01:46:22,650 --> 01:46:23,769
Speaker 3: How awful is that?

2475
01:46:24,070 --> 01:46:26,050
Speaker 2: Wait, can I just ask and you don't have to

2476
01:46:26,110 --> 01:46:27,630
Speaker 2: answer honestly, but were you on drugs?

2477
01:46:27,750 --> 01:46:29,680
Speaker 4: No, I was not on drugs.

2478
01:46:29,979 --> 01:46:34,060
Speaker 3: Just stupid. Just 19.

2479
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:38,059
Speaker 2: People don't appreciate how these days no one uses the

2480
01:46:38,100 --> 01:46:38,900
Speaker 2: phone ever.

2481
01:46:39,260 --> 01:46:41,099
Speaker 3: Well, it's the thing of texting the wrong person.

2482
01:46:41,200 --> 01:46:42,780
Speaker 4: Yes. It's texting the person you're thinking of.

2483
01:46:42,820 --> 01:46:44,840
Speaker 2: Or posting something on social media or saving their thing

2484
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:45,690
Speaker 2: from three months ago.

2485
01:46:45,729 --> 01:46:46,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2486
01:46:46,689 --> 01:46:48,820
Speaker 3: Embarrassing thing, but God, there was.

2487
01:46:49,910 --> 01:46:54,700
Speaker 2: So much bad behavior around answering machines in my past. Also,

2488
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:57,400
Speaker 2: one time I was super stoned in my apartment and

2489
01:46:57,420 --> 01:47:00,180
Speaker 2: I was listening to my messages and my sister left

2490
01:47:00,220 --> 01:47:02,770
Speaker 2: me such a long message that halfway through I forgot

2491
01:47:02,790 --> 01:47:04,490
Speaker 2: it was a message and I started fighting with her

2492
01:47:04,510 --> 01:47:05,690
Speaker 2: and I got really mad.

2493
01:47:05,710 --> 01:47:08,410
Speaker 3: I was like, stop talking over me. What are you doing?

2494
01:47:08,490 --> 01:47:09,910
Speaker 3: And I was like, there's this whole thing. And then

2495
01:47:09,950 --> 01:47:11,130
Speaker 3: it was like, all right, talk to you later.

2496
01:47:11,150 --> 01:47:18,820
Speaker 4: Oh, my God. Send us your embarrassing stories to MyFavoriteMurder

2497
01:47:18,860 --> 01:47:19,540
Speaker 4: at Gmail.

2498
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:22,599
Speaker 3: What horrible thing have you done on an answering machine?

2499
01:47:22,660 --> 01:47:26,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, around phones, around texting, around all of that.

2500
01:47:26,100 --> 01:47:28,820
Speaker 2: And you can make them modern, but I guess texting

2501
01:47:28,900 --> 01:47:29,440
Speaker 2: ones are good.

2502
01:47:29,460 --> 01:47:33,349
Speaker 4: Yeah, modern is fine. Yeah, go ahead. Okay.

2503
01:47:33,370 --> 01:47:34,269
Speaker 3: MyFavoriteMurder at Gmail.

2504
01:47:34,689 --> 01:47:35,130
Speaker 4: Dot com.

2505
01:47:36,310 --> 01:47:37,630
Speaker 3: Dot com.

2506
01:47:37,710 --> 01:47:38,090
Speaker 4: Okay, go ahead.

2507
01:47:40,130 --> 01:47:42,349
Speaker 3: So, and then guess what happened? Tell me.

2508
01:47:42,370 --> 01:47:43,470
Speaker 4: This is fancy.

2509
01:47:43,510 --> 01:47:45,110
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to re... Okay.

2510
01:47:45,210 --> 01:47:45,490
Speaker 1: Okay.

2511
01:47:45,530 --> 01:47:48,840
Speaker 2: So, they get more evidence back. So, it's this trace

2512
01:47:48,939 --> 01:47:51,500
Speaker 2: evidence that they're getting off of this humongous piece of carpet.

2513
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:57,220
Speaker 3: And what they... They find a single hair from Dyson

2514
01:47:57,780 --> 01:47:58,340
Speaker 3: on that carpet.

2515
01:47:58,360 --> 01:47:58,800
Speaker 4: That's it?

2516
01:47:59,260 --> 01:48:01,860
Speaker 3: A single hair. But they're like, okay, this is enough

2517
01:48:01,900 --> 01:48:02,520
Speaker 3: so we know he's there.

2518
01:48:02,550 --> 01:48:03,189
Speaker 4: Yeah, we know he was there.

2519
01:48:03,570 --> 01:48:04,710
Speaker 3: It's not going to hold up in court.

2520
01:48:04,729 --> 01:48:04,950
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2521
01:48:05,250 --> 01:48:07,250
Speaker 3: But now we know we've got to tie him to it.

2522
01:48:07,250 --> 01:48:07,490
Speaker 4: Okay.

2523
01:48:07,610 --> 01:48:13,170
Speaker 3: But they also find... Colored sand. Glitter. Oh, my God.

2524
01:48:13,510 --> 01:48:21,510
Speaker 2: And dyed animal hair and gray human hair. So they're

2525
01:48:21,530 --> 01:48:23,110
Speaker 2: like other people were in that apartment.

2526
01:48:23,170 --> 01:48:23,530
Speaker 3: What?

2527
01:48:23,570 --> 01:48:23,769
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2528
01:48:24,229 --> 01:48:27,379
Speaker 3: So it wasn't just Girly Chew. It wasn't just Dizen.

2529
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:31,040
Speaker 3: It wasn't even just Linda. And then they find lizard skin.

2530
01:48:33,300 --> 01:48:36,340
Speaker 2: And then they find the entire Bush family photo album.

2531
01:48:37,340 --> 01:48:39,559
Speaker 2: That's a big theory that the Bush family are lizard people.

2532
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:39,920
Speaker 4: Oh.

2533
01:48:40,140 --> 01:48:40,260
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

2534
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:43,590
Speaker 3: Pass it on, please. They....

2535
01:48:45,770 --> 01:48:47,970
Speaker 2: Okay, so then they find a picture that Linda has

2536
01:48:47,990 --> 01:48:50,830
Speaker 2: drawn in Linda's house.

2537
01:48:51,110 --> 01:48:52,349
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

2538
01:48:52,729 --> 01:48:55,110
Speaker 3: They find a bunch of love letters between Linda and Dyson.

2539
01:48:55,130 --> 01:48:55,470
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

2540
01:48:55,630 --> 01:48:59,349
Speaker 2: But then they also find a drawing of a warrior

2541
01:48:59,439 --> 01:49:01,820
Speaker 2: queen dressed for battle against aliens.

2542
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:03,019
Speaker 4: Let me guess. That's her.

2543
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:04,860
Speaker 3: Yeah. In a letter to Dyson.

2544
01:49:04,900 --> 01:49:05,019
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

2545
01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:08,380
Speaker 3: And in the picture, she's wearing, like... It's one of

2546
01:49:08,420 --> 01:49:11,200
Speaker 3: the cat... She looks like Catwoman, essentially, but with, like,

2547
01:49:11,900 --> 01:49:13,140
Speaker 3: slightly different decorations.

2548
01:49:13,580 --> 01:49:14,260
Speaker 4: Okay.

2549
01:49:15,100 --> 01:49:16,840
Speaker 3: And she's holding a sword.

2550
01:49:17,620 --> 01:49:20,670
Speaker 2: In the ceiling of Linda Henning's garage at her house,

2551
01:49:20,750 --> 01:49:26,410
Speaker 2: they find a ninja sword with blood on it. And

2552
01:49:27,490 --> 01:49:30,830
Speaker 2: it's not enough blood. They couldn't pull DNA, but they

2553
01:49:30,870 --> 01:49:32,710
Speaker 2: could tell it had been cleaned and that there was

2554
01:49:32,790 --> 01:49:33,710
Speaker 2: trace amounts of blood.

2555
01:49:33,729 --> 01:49:34,639
Speaker 3: Okay.

2556
01:49:35,260 --> 01:49:40,500
Speaker 2: Also, the investigators were like, a samurai sword is a

2557
01:49:40,560 --> 01:49:43,809
Speaker 2: warrior sword for, like, war battle. A ninja sword is

2558
01:49:43,830 --> 01:49:48,850
Speaker 2: for assassins. So it's smaller, thinner blade. I don't know

2559
01:49:48,890 --> 01:49:50,230
Speaker 2: much about it, so I'm not going to say anything.

2560
01:49:50,250 --> 01:49:53,070
Speaker 3: That sounds right. Get the sword people mad at me, but...

2561
01:49:54,670 --> 01:49:57,219
Speaker 3: But then they go, okay, so this is here. Let's

2562
01:49:57,310 --> 01:49:58,439
Speaker 3: re-look at the shirt.

2563
01:49:58,260 --> 01:50:00,720
Speaker 2: That we found that belonged to Girly Chew that had

2564
01:50:00,740 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 2: blood on it.

2565
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:03,520
Speaker 3: And start comparison, comparing.

2566
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:04,519
Speaker 4: Comparising, no.

2567
01:50:04,540 --> 01:50:05,560
Speaker 1: Comparisizing.

2568
01:50:05,900 --> 01:50:09,299
Speaker 3: Comparisize it. Did she wipe the blade off with the shirt?

2569
01:50:09,860 --> 01:50:13,540
Speaker 3: The stab wounds were from that sword. That is what

2570
01:50:13,580 --> 01:50:15,260
Speaker 3: they were testing to try to see.

2571
01:50:15,820 --> 01:50:19,439
Speaker 2: And as they do that, and they're re-examining Girly Chew's

2572
01:50:19,479 --> 01:50:24,490
Speaker 2: shirt that they had found. The lab finds Dizan Hazenkov's

2573
01:50:24,550 --> 01:50:28,200
Speaker 2: blood and saliva on one shoulder of the shirt. So

2574
01:50:28,260 --> 01:50:31,180
Speaker 2: now they have evidence that he was there when Gurley

2575
01:50:31,200 --> 01:50:31,900
Speaker 2: Chu was murdered.

2576
01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:33,740
Speaker 4: Oh, my God. Poor Gurley.

2577
01:50:34,220 --> 01:50:37,190
Speaker 2: And the other person that is there, because they go

2578
01:50:37,229 --> 01:50:39,630
Speaker 2: back to the UFO group and re-interview them.

2579
01:50:39,950 --> 01:50:40,130
Speaker 4: Yep.

2580
01:50:40,729 --> 01:50:43,060
Speaker 2: And they find out from them that there was a

2581
01:50:43,310 --> 01:50:47,140
Speaker 2: third person in Daizen and Linda's little group. And it's

2582
01:50:47,180 --> 01:50:49,620
Speaker 2: a guy named Bill Miller. He was a member of

2583
01:50:49,660 --> 01:50:52,979
Speaker 2: the UFO group. He was an older man. He was

2584
01:50:53,020 --> 01:50:57,870
Speaker 2: a survivalist and an outdoorsman. And the three of them, Linda,

2585
01:50:57,910 --> 01:51:00,030
Speaker 2: Bill and Daizen, used to drive to the UFO camp.

2586
01:51:00,410 --> 01:51:03,450
Speaker 2: believers meetings together and they also did stuff on the

2587
01:51:03,479 --> 01:51:04,340
Speaker 2: weekends and they show.

2588
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:06,500
Speaker 4: This picture they were the most boring.

2589
01:51:06,100 --> 01:51:10,180
Speaker 2: People to hang out with well i bet the conversation

2590
01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:12,840
Speaker 2: was hard to follow they seem like the kind of

2591
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:14,550
Speaker 2: people you're just like guys we were just.

2592
01:51:14,470 --> 01:51:16,810
Speaker 3: Talking about movies and now now we're back into this

2593
01:51:16,950 --> 01:51:17,470
Speaker 3: alien or.

2594
01:51:17,410 --> 01:51:20,050
Speaker 4: Even like i was following your alien takeover shit but

2595
01:51:20,090 --> 01:51:24,510
Speaker 4: this is like what are you warrior princesses This is crazy.

2596
01:51:24,550 --> 01:51:26,870
Speaker 3: How about we do one weird topic per car ride?

2597
01:51:26,890 --> 01:51:28,809
Speaker 3: You can't just pick a bunch of them. Yeah, don't

2598
01:51:28,850 --> 01:51:31,170
Speaker 3: just list off. Linda, Linda, hold on.

2599
01:51:31,210 --> 01:51:32,809
Speaker 4: Linda, it's usually you.

2600
01:51:32,870 --> 01:51:36,940
Speaker 3: Linda, you keep switching topics. There's a picture of the

2601
01:51:36,990 --> 01:51:38,940
Speaker 3: three of them at, like, it looks like they're at

2602
01:51:38,979 --> 01:51:39,900
Speaker 3: the river together.

2603
01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:40,320
Speaker 4: Oh, my God.

2604
01:51:40,380 --> 01:51:41,960
Speaker 3: And they look so fucking normal.

2605
01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:45,420
Speaker 2: And it's another wave that I got of, like, I

2606
01:51:45,460 --> 01:51:48,520
Speaker 2: think this is, personally for me, the appeal of true crime.

2607
01:51:48,939 --> 01:51:50,580
Speaker 3: These are the people that live next door to you.

2608
01:51:50,640 --> 01:51:50,910
Speaker 4: Oh, my God.

2609
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:52,860
Speaker 2: These are the people that are standing at the river

2610
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:57,320
Speaker 2: taking a fucking picture. And meanwhile, they have kidnapped, murdered,

2611
01:51:57,590 --> 01:51:58,820
Speaker 2: and hidden the body.

2612
01:51:58,850 --> 01:52:01,729
Speaker 4: Of a woman. Oh, my God.

2613
01:52:02,130 --> 01:52:06,130
Speaker 3: It's just so goddamn sinister, terrifying. The banality of evil.

2614
01:52:06,310 --> 01:52:06,790
Speaker 3: Look it up.

2615
01:52:07,450 --> 01:52:07,570
Speaker 2: Okay.

2616
01:52:08,910 --> 01:52:10,110
Speaker 3: So, okay.

2617
01:52:10,150 --> 01:52:15,030
Speaker 2: So it turns out that Daizen had told Linda that

2618
01:52:15,290 --> 01:52:18,410
Speaker 2: he was a 7,000-year-old space alien that had been on

2619
01:52:18,450 --> 01:52:23,809
Speaker 2: the planet since before these newer aliens showed up.

2620
01:52:23,830 --> 01:52:24,070
Speaker 1: Okay.

2621
01:52:24,550 --> 01:52:27,070
Speaker 3: And the newer aliens were the ones that are trying

2622
01:52:27,110 --> 01:52:29,970
Speaker 3: to take over. Okay. And he was actually here put

2623
01:52:30,050 --> 01:52:31,229
Speaker 3: on the planet. But he's the good guy.

2624
01:52:31,330 --> 01:52:33,050
Speaker 2: He's the good alien that was here to keep it

2625
01:52:33,070 --> 01:52:33,770
Speaker 2: from happening.

2626
01:52:33,790 --> 01:52:33,930
Speaker 4: Okay.

2627
01:52:34,770 --> 01:52:37,390
Speaker 2: And he said the only way to keep these new

2628
01:52:37,450 --> 01:52:39,469
Speaker 2: aliens from taking over is to kill their queen.

2629
01:52:40,310 --> 01:52:42,550
Speaker 3: And do you know who the queen is? The queen

2630
01:52:42,590 --> 01:52:43,929
Speaker 3: is his wife, Girly Shoe.

2631
01:52:43,950 --> 01:52:46,510
Speaker 4: He took advantage of her kind of crazy brain?

2632
01:52:46,550 --> 01:52:47,630
Speaker 3: A hundred percent.

2633
01:52:47,710 --> 01:52:48,210
Speaker 4: Oh, my God.

2634
01:52:48,229 --> 01:52:51,790
Speaker 2: Which is the classic con man thing. It's classic con

2635
01:52:51,830 --> 01:52:55,870
Speaker 2: man of what's your weakness? What's the thing that's got

2636
01:52:55,910 --> 01:52:57,210
Speaker 2: you all turned around?

2637
01:52:57,650 --> 01:52:58,429
Speaker 3: Oh, me too.

2638
01:52:58,650 --> 01:52:59,590
Speaker 4: I can't believe.

2639
01:52:59,650 --> 01:53:01,729
Speaker 3: I'm just like you. Me too. We're a team.

2640
01:53:01,770 --> 01:53:03,470
Speaker 4: Oh, that's so awful.

2641
01:53:03,490 --> 01:53:07,160
Speaker 2: It's... Very sad and very crazy. So he's like, he's

2642
01:53:07,260 --> 01:53:11,179
Speaker 2: high level con man, a psychopath. So she wouldn't have.

2643
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:16,090
Speaker 3: Killed Gurley if she didn't think that she was. She

2644
01:53:16,130 --> 01:53:18,970
Speaker 3: needed to do it. Yeah. To rid this planet of

2645
01:53:19,010 --> 01:53:19,769
Speaker 3: the alien takeover.

2646
01:53:19,910 --> 01:53:21,270
Speaker 4: Oh my God.

2647
01:53:21,290 --> 01:53:21,390
Speaker 3: Yes.

2648
01:53:21,450 --> 01:53:21,679
Speaker 4: Yes.

2649
01:53:22,330 --> 01:53:24,860
Speaker 3: And she also, well, but there's more to it.

2650
01:53:24,890 --> 01:53:25,150
Speaker 4: Okay.

2651
01:53:25,189 --> 01:53:27,790
Speaker 3: So the trial starts. So they have enough to bring

2652
01:53:27,830 --> 01:53:29,250
Speaker 3: him to trial. Okay.

2653
01:53:29,270 --> 01:53:31,729
Speaker 2: And when, when he goes to make his plea, he

2654
01:53:31,770 --> 01:53:33,400
Speaker 2: surprises everybody and pleads guilty.

2655
01:53:33,520 --> 01:53:33,680
Speaker 4: Good.

2656
01:53:34,220 --> 01:53:36,980
Speaker 2: And they, in this special, they talk about how, um,

2657
01:53:37,100 --> 01:53:39,820
Speaker 2: New Mexico had just put someone to death and they

2658
01:53:39,860 --> 01:53:42,260
Speaker 2: think that that while he was being held, he was like,

2659
01:53:42,460 --> 01:53:44,420
Speaker 2: Oh shit, that could happen to me. So he was

2660
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:46,980
Speaker 2: just like, fine, you got me. Um, but he would

2661
01:53:47,020 --> 01:53:51,910
Speaker 2: not tell them where girly choose body was. Um, And

2662
01:53:52,310 --> 01:53:54,849
Speaker 2: he says that he and a man named Bill Miller,

2663
01:53:54,970 --> 01:53:58,809
Speaker 2: who's the third guy from the UFO Believers Club, they

2664
01:53:58,850 --> 01:54:00,800
Speaker 2: did it and that Linda Henning had nothing to do

2665
01:54:00,820 --> 01:54:04,560
Speaker 2: with it. He said that he didn't even, that Bill

2666
01:54:04,580 --> 01:54:08,419
Speaker 2: Miller wanted to kill a person, that he was excited

2667
01:54:08,460 --> 01:54:10,300
Speaker 2: to do it. He'd always wanted to hunt a human

2668
01:54:10,320 --> 01:54:12,780
Speaker 2: being and that he didn't even have to pay him.

2669
01:54:12,720 --> 01:54:19,400
Speaker 3: To help kill his wife. Fuck. Yes. Then Linda Henning's

2670
01:54:19,500 --> 01:54:20,900
Speaker 3: cellmate comes forward.

2671
01:54:20,920 --> 01:54:25,189
Speaker 2: I don't know. And she says that Linda, when she

2672
01:54:25,210 --> 01:54:27,550
Speaker 2: just went up to Linda and was like, what did

2673
01:54:27,570 --> 01:54:31,090
Speaker 2: you do with that woman's body? And without words, Linda

2674
01:54:31,110 --> 01:54:33,950
Speaker 2: made a gesture indicating that they had eaten her.

2675
01:54:36,050 --> 01:54:38,390
Speaker 4: This is the craziest story I've ever heard.

2676
01:54:38,410 --> 01:54:38,990
Speaker 3: It's beyond.

2677
01:54:39,130 --> 01:54:40,790
Speaker 4: How have I never watched this one?

2678
01:54:40,930 --> 01:54:44,380
Speaker 2: It's also you have to watch it because. You have

2679
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:47,090
Speaker 2: to see this guy kind of in action. He's like

2680
01:54:47,100 --> 01:54:50,470
Speaker 2: when he's doing the perp walk, he's laughing really loud.

2681
01:54:50,910 --> 01:54:53,510
Speaker 2: Like he's doing those things where he knows everything is

2682
01:54:53,550 --> 01:54:56,190
Speaker 2: a decision being made about what like the impact.

2683
01:54:56,210 --> 01:54:58,030
Speaker 4: He sounds like he'd been a good cult leader.

2684
01:54:58,410 --> 01:55:03,560
Speaker 2: Yes, I think 100 percent. I mean, he's thousands of dollars.

2685
01:55:04,600 --> 01:55:07,340
Speaker 2: If you have leukemia, you have to be pretty good.

2686
01:55:08,460 --> 01:55:10,200
Speaker 2: The con man has to be pretty good to convince

2687
01:55:10,240 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 2: you to spend, like, all the rest of your money

2688
01:55:12,860 --> 01:55:16,210
Speaker 2: on a cancer-curing, like, that's crazy.

2689
01:55:16,590 --> 01:55:22,850
Speaker 3: So she, Mayim's eating them. I mean, that's just what

2690
01:55:22,890 --> 01:55:23,430
Speaker 3: that woman said.

2691
01:55:23,490 --> 01:55:23,970
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay.

2692
01:55:24,230 --> 01:55:25,670
Speaker 2: And it could have been, who knows what it meant.

2693
01:55:26,970 --> 01:55:29,970
Speaker 2: Daizan Hasenkov gets sentenced to life in prison.

2694
01:55:29,990 --> 01:55:31,370
Speaker 4: Thank God.

2695
01:55:31,650 --> 01:55:35,450
Speaker 2: But they, in getting him to agree to plead guilty,

2696
01:55:35,790 --> 01:55:37,690
Speaker 2: the death sentence got taken off the table.

2697
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:37,940
Speaker 3: Okay.

2698
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:42,700
Speaker 2: Linda goes to trial. Linda Henning denies all involvement in

2699
01:55:42,740 --> 01:55:45,860
Speaker 2: Gurley's murder. She says, quote, and this is one of

2700
01:55:45,880 --> 01:55:48,780
Speaker 2: the videos that you can watch. And this is one

2701
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:52,190
Speaker 2: of those ones where she keeps twitch resetting every third sentence.

2702
01:55:53,270 --> 01:55:53,770
Speaker 3: I'm innocent.

2703
01:55:53,970 --> 01:55:55,930
Speaker 2: I've never done anything to cause the death of a

2704
01:55:55,990 --> 01:56:00,110
Speaker 2: two-legged or four-legged creature. It's always been my belief from

2705
01:56:00,150 --> 01:56:02,050
Speaker 2: day one that the blood was planted.

2706
01:56:02,070 --> 01:56:06,770
Speaker 3: I wasn't there. Nope. And then she also says, In

2707
01:56:06,830 --> 01:56:08,730
Speaker 3: every past life I've been murdered, so what am I

2708
01:56:08,790 --> 01:56:10,450
Speaker 3: up for now? The death penalty.

2709
01:56:11,570 --> 01:56:13,960
Speaker 2: Like, isn't that ironic, Alanis Morissette?

2710
01:56:14,220 --> 01:56:17,460
Speaker 3: Oh, honey, you're fucking batshit. She's cray.

2711
01:56:18,160 --> 01:56:21,560
Speaker 2: When she went to trial, they had the death penalty

2712
01:56:21,580 --> 01:56:22,220
Speaker 2: on the table for her.

2713
01:56:22,240 --> 01:56:22,740
Speaker 3: No way.

2714
01:56:23,180 --> 01:56:24,300
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2715
01:56:24,740 --> 01:56:28,170
Speaker 2: And then her friend testifies, and this woman's testimony is

2716
01:56:28,310 --> 01:56:30,050
Speaker 2: in this special, so I'm sure you can see it somewhere.

2717
01:56:31,100 --> 01:56:34,680
Speaker 2: She says that Linda told her that she that Linda

2718
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:38,140
Speaker 2: had been appointed the queen of the world and that

2719
01:56:38,160 --> 01:56:40,640
Speaker 2: it was her responsibility to defend the world from other

2720
01:56:40,720 --> 01:56:43,590
Speaker 2: queens who were trying to take over from they're coming

2721
01:56:43,610 --> 01:56:44,950
Speaker 2: from other planets to take over.

2722
01:56:44,970 --> 01:56:50,370
Speaker 4: If your friend said that to you over like mimosas, I'd.

2723
01:56:50,270 --> 01:56:53,710
Speaker 2: Just be like, you fucking not. Anyway, I'm going out

2724
01:56:53,730 --> 01:56:54,600
Speaker 2: of town for a while.

2725
01:56:54,730 --> 01:56:56,840
Speaker 4: Do you want to stay at my house with my

2726
01:56:56,880 --> 01:57:03,320
Speaker 4: four my four legged animals? I, I'm almost positive that

2727
01:57:03,390 --> 01:57:06,790
Speaker 4: when I wouldn't do stuff like say chores around the house,

2728
01:57:06,830 --> 01:57:08,510
Speaker 4: my mom would call me the queen of the world.

2729
01:57:08,770 --> 01:57:11,410
Speaker 2: But I might be rewriting that just because it's so funny.

2730
01:57:11,770 --> 01:57:13,350
Speaker 2: But the idea that you would turn, you'd turn to

2731
01:57:13,370 --> 01:57:14,590
Speaker 2: your friend and be like, look, I got to tell

2732
01:57:14,610 --> 01:57:14,990
Speaker 2: you something.

2733
01:57:15,090 --> 01:57:17,650
Speaker 3: I know. I know things have been weird lately, but

2734
01:57:17,850 --> 01:57:20,840
Speaker 3: I'm the queen of the world. Not America.

2735
01:57:20,850 --> 01:57:20,940
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2736
01:57:21,830 --> 01:57:22,890
Speaker 3: The whole fucking planet.

2737
01:57:22,910 --> 01:57:24,990
Speaker 4: Oh, that icy chill you'd get when you're like, I

2738
01:57:25,030 --> 01:57:28,410
Speaker 4: need to turn my friend over to the hospital. Yes.

2739
01:57:28,710 --> 01:57:29,690
Speaker 3: How are we going to do this?

2740
01:57:29,770 --> 01:57:30,030
Speaker 4: Yes.

2741
01:57:30,310 --> 01:57:31,430
Speaker 3: I'm going to back away.

2742
01:57:31,610 --> 01:57:33,430
Speaker 4: Hey, you know where they have a great fro-yo place?

2743
01:57:33,450 --> 01:57:36,770
Speaker 4: In the hospital. At the psych ward in the hospital.

2744
01:57:36,970 --> 01:57:37,790
Speaker 4: Follow me.

2745
01:57:38,030 --> 01:57:40,710
Speaker 2: They have the best frozen yogurt, but you have to

2746
01:57:40,870 --> 01:57:43,230
Speaker 2: commit yourself to a 48-hour or 8-hour hold.

2747
01:57:43,270 --> 01:57:43,840
Speaker 4: Exactly.

2748
01:57:43,980 --> 01:57:44,820
Speaker 3: But it'll be worth it.

2749
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:50,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. And then I crush up some fucking anti-psychotics into

2750
01:57:50,160 --> 01:57:50,680
Speaker 4: her fro-yo.

2751
01:57:50,840 --> 01:57:52,840
Speaker 3: Here's the other thing, too. If you think you're the

2752
01:57:52,860 --> 01:57:55,260
Speaker 3: queen of the world, and I mean in this way

2753
01:57:55,300 --> 01:57:55,900
Speaker 3: where you feel.

2754
01:57:55,780 --> 01:57:57,520
Speaker 2: Like you have to kill other people because you have

2755
01:57:57,540 --> 01:58:00,180
Speaker 2: to defend the world, don't take that all on by yourself.

2756
01:58:00,820 --> 01:58:03,850
Speaker 2: Commit yourself to a 48-hour psych hold and figure out

2757
01:58:03,950 --> 01:58:06,830
Speaker 2: what's actually going on. Get some other voices in there.

2758
01:58:06,970 --> 01:58:09,110
Speaker 2: Get some, do you think I'm the queen of the world?

2759
01:58:10,020 --> 01:58:10,380
Speaker 4: The world?

2760
01:58:10,540 --> 01:58:20,410
Speaker 3: No Are we fighting now? I knew you didn't think

2761
01:58:20,450 --> 01:58:21,610
Speaker 3: I was the queen of the world I do.

2762
01:58:21,570 --> 01:58:24,030
Speaker 4: Think Elvis is an alien But I'm not going to

2763
01:58:24,050 --> 01:58:24,910
Speaker 4: kill anyone over it.

2764
01:58:24,990 --> 01:58:26,490
Speaker 3: Do you think he's the king of the world?

2765
01:58:27,350 --> 01:58:31,000
Speaker 4: Elvis is the king All right. Okay.

2766
01:58:31,240 --> 01:58:35,440
Speaker 2: Let's focus, please. We got to get through this. I'm

2767
01:58:35,460 --> 01:58:37,080
Speaker 2: the one that put my paper all the way down,

2768
01:58:37,160 --> 01:58:38,280
Speaker 2: but we need to focus.

2769
01:58:39,370 --> 01:58:40,970
Speaker 4: Okay. This is a four-hour episode.

2770
01:58:41,090 --> 01:58:42,090
Speaker 3: It really is.

2771
01:58:43,130 --> 01:58:47,490
Speaker 2: So then Daizen Hassenkopf comes to testify at Linda Henning's trial.

2772
01:58:47,510 --> 01:58:47,930
Speaker 1: Oh, dear.

2773
01:58:48,310 --> 01:58:51,010
Speaker 2: And it's the full show. He's grown out his nails,

2774
01:58:51,030 --> 01:58:53,150
Speaker 2: which he knows is the grossest thing a man can do.

2775
01:58:53,940 --> 01:58:57,240
Speaker 2: He's smiling like a lunatic. He's just got that thing

2776
01:58:57,260 --> 01:59:00,180
Speaker 2: where it's like, It's very Charles. It's like poor man's

2777
01:59:00,220 --> 01:59:00,860
Speaker 2: Charles Manson.

2778
01:59:00,880 --> 01:59:02,220
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like it.

2779
01:59:03,100 --> 01:59:06,780
Speaker 2: And he's talking, he does a little speech about how

2780
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:11,010
Speaker 2: he hopes that Gurley suffered more than anyone on the planet.

2781
01:59:11,330 --> 01:59:14,850
Speaker 2: Like he does this whole speech about her murder that's

2782
01:59:14,930 --> 01:59:17,110
Speaker 2: so horrible, but he's.

2783
01:59:16,970 --> 01:59:18,730
Speaker 3: Doing it with this weird smile and you're just like,

2784
01:59:18,910 --> 01:59:19,690
Speaker 3: this is all dumb.

2785
01:59:19,750 --> 01:59:21,490
Speaker 4: It's corny. It's like over the top.

2786
01:59:22,930 --> 01:59:25,480
Speaker 2: But he still maintains that Linda Henning had nothing to

2787
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:29,310
Speaker 2: do with the murder and And he said that he

2788
01:59:29,710 --> 01:59:34,010
Speaker 2: he says that he planted Linda's blood in Gurley's apartment

2789
01:59:34,310 --> 01:59:38,790
Speaker 2: to throw off investigators. Well, investigators are like, yeah, that

2790
01:59:38,850 --> 01:59:40,250
Speaker 2: doesn't throw anybody off.

2791
01:59:40,510 --> 01:59:43,330
Speaker 3: It's evidence leads you us directly to you.

2792
01:59:43,530 --> 01:59:45,930
Speaker 2: And also what we what they honestly think it was

2793
01:59:45,970 --> 01:59:48,490
Speaker 2: is they think he was setting Linda Henning up for

2794
01:59:48,510 --> 01:59:51,400
Speaker 2: this murder. They think he was trying to lay that out.

2795
01:59:51,450 --> 01:59:52,840
Speaker 2: And then it was like he got caught and it

2796
01:59:52,850 --> 01:59:55,890
Speaker 2: was like it was out of his hands. Which is

2797
01:59:55,930 --> 01:59:59,530
Speaker 2: even sadder because when Linda Henning talks about Daizan, even

2798
01:59:59,710 --> 02:00:02,530
Speaker 2: after her arrest, she's clearly still in love with him.

2799
02:00:02,730 --> 02:00:03,290
Speaker 4: Oh, no.

2800
02:00:03,370 --> 02:00:06,270
Speaker 2: Yeah, she thinks he's amazing. She thinks he's the greatest.

2801
02:00:06,910 --> 02:00:11,640
Speaker 2: It's so nuts. She's convicted of first-degree murder and kidnapping,

2802
02:00:12,040 --> 02:00:13,460
Speaker 2: but she doesn't get the death penalty.

2803
02:00:13,500 --> 02:00:14,480
Speaker 3: She gets life in prison.

2804
02:00:15,240 --> 02:00:18,810
Speaker 2: And at the time, it was the most extensive forensic

2805
02:00:18,820 --> 02:00:20,630
Speaker 2: investigation in New Mexico history.

2806
02:00:20,650 --> 02:00:23,560
Speaker 3: What? It's so crazy.

2807
02:00:24,310 --> 02:00:28,000
Speaker 2: Bill Miller, the third party, no charges were ever brought

2808
02:00:28,020 --> 02:00:31,020
Speaker 2: against him. A grand jury found that there was not

2809
02:00:31,120 --> 02:00:32,520
Speaker 2: enough evidence to charge him.

2810
02:00:32,780 --> 02:00:34,980
Speaker 3: Well, I don't like him. I don't either. And he

2811
02:00:35,020 --> 02:00:36,960
Speaker 3: doesn't seem like a nice person. I don't like his

2812
02:00:37,020 --> 02:00:40,080
Speaker 3: profile in the special. I saw it a couple times.

2813
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:43,120
Speaker 2: He looks like somebody that would yell at you outside

2814
02:00:43,140 --> 02:00:43,640
Speaker 2: of Best Buy.

2815
02:00:43,720 --> 02:00:45,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2816
02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:50,080
Speaker 2: And that is the horrible murder of Gurley Chew.

2817
02:00:51,330 --> 02:00:53,070
Speaker 3: Fuck, dude.

2818
02:00:54,110 --> 02:00:54,730
Speaker 4: Thank you for that.

2819
02:00:55,370 --> 02:00:58,260
Speaker 2: I mean, thank you and really thank Crime Stories for

2820
02:00:58,320 --> 02:01:01,220
Speaker 2: really letting me retell their story.

2821
02:01:01,240 --> 02:01:02,560
Speaker 3: Because that's what happened.

2822
02:01:02,620 --> 02:01:06,100
Speaker 2: And thank you, Zoe Klar, for reminding me of this.

2823
02:01:07,080 --> 02:01:09,460
Speaker 2: I feel like I've seen at least three.

2824
02:01:09,320 --> 02:01:11,230
Speaker 3: Episodes on this. That's crazy.

2825
02:01:11,310 --> 02:01:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2826
02:01:12,090 --> 02:01:13,209
Speaker 3: Because it's like fodder.

2827
02:01:13,370 --> 02:01:16,530
Speaker 2: It's like perfect crime show fodder.

2828
02:01:16,550 --> 02:01:17,290
Speaker 3: It's got everything.

2829
02:01:18,130 --> 02:01:18,250
Speaker 4: And.

2830
02:01:18,820 --> 02:01:20,860
Speaker 2: It makes me want to join a UFO Believers Club.

2831
02:01:20,880 --> 02:01:22,120
Speaker 2: It's like, what's going on?

2832
02:01:22,140 --> 02:01:23,380
Speaker 4: Let's do it. Okay.

2833
02:01:23,980 --> 02:01:25,200
Speaker 3: Just to open up.

2834
02:01:25,220 --> 02:01:27,960
Speaker 4: Our social circle. What if we accidentally join a cult?

2835
02:01:29,850 --> 02:01:32,190
Speaker 3: It'd be good for the podcast. It would be. People

2836
02:01:32,210 --> 02:01:35,310
Speaker 3: are like, get out! Then they rescue us. Aw.

2837
02:01:35,510 --> 02:01:36,150
Speaker 4: That'd be so fun.

2838
02:01:36,170 --> 02:01:36,870
Speaker 3: That'd be so nice of them.

2839
02:01:40,850 --> 02:01:42,870
Speaker 4: Okay, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates?

2840
02:01:43,330 --> 02:01:44,070
Speaker 3: There's a couple.

2841
02:01:44,090 --> 02:01:44,150
Speaker 1: So.

2842
02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:50,110
Speaker 2: In 2020, Dyson Hossenkopf asked a judge to vacate his

2843
02:01:50,170 --> 02:01:54,010
Speaker 2: life sentence. He claims his sentence was illegal, that he

2844
02:01:54,030 --> 02:01:57,510
Speaker 2: was denied due process because of collusion, that his attorneys

2845
02:01:57,570 --> 02:02:00,510
Speaker 2: failed at their jobs, and that he was forced into

2846
02:02:00,550 --> 02:02:03,410
Speaker 2: a plea deal. He believes his attorneys were working with

2847
02:02:04,090 --> 02:02:07,790
Speaker 2: the police department in Albuquerque to hide evidence that would

2848
02:02:07,810 --> 02:02:11,550
Speaker 2: have exonerated him. And then very recently, October 2026, like

2849
02:02:11,590 --> 02:02:16,460
Speaker 2: that recently, Linda Henning was released from prison after a

2850
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:21,420
Speaker 2: judge vacated her conviction. That judge ruled she was incompetent

2851
02:02:21,460 --> 02:02:25,200
Speaker 2: to stand trial back in 2002, and her lawyer failed

2852
02:02:25,260 --> 02:02:29,080
Speaker 2: to disclose that she had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and

2853
02:02:29,160 --> 02:02:33,140
Speaker 2: was experiencing delusions at the time that she was tried.

2854
02:02:33,760 --> 02:02:36,260
Speaker 2: So there's now going to be a new trial for her,

2855
02:02:37,000 --> 02:02:38,980
Speaker 2: and I guess more updates coming.

2856
02:02:39,050 --> 02:02:41,150
Speaker 3: This case is basically opening back up.

2857
02:02:41,230 --> 02:02:43,450
Speaker 1: Wow. Who knew that we would do this for so

2858
02:02:43,510 --> 02:02:46,450
Speaker 1: long that we would have updates years and years later?

2859
02:02:46,530 --> 02:02:48,070
Speaker 1: It's pretty exciting.

2860
02:02:48,610 --> 02:02:50,570
Speaker 3: Hold on. Let me put my hearing aids in. What

2861
02:02:50,590 --> 02:02:51,250
Speaker 3: did you just say?

2862
02:02:52,870 --> 02:02:53,170
Speaker 4: All right.

2863
02:02:53,290 --> 02:03:01,850
Speaker 1: Let's get into our fucking hoorays. All right.

2864
02:03:02,190 --> 02:03:06,030
Speaker 3: Fucking hooray. What's the thing that's been making you happy lately? Well,

2865
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:10,520
Speaker 3: Nico Case's.

2866
02:03:10,240 --> 02:03:13,700
Speaker 2: New album is called Hell On. just came out cool

2867
02:03:13,900 --> 02:03:17,290
Speaker 2: it's so fucking good great it's but she's always perfect

2868
02:03:17,610 --> 02:03:19,690
Speaker 2: i think she's one of those people that suffers from

2869
02:03:19,730 --> 02:03:22,830
Speaker 2: the fact that she from when she first started going

2870
02:03:22,850 --> 02:03:24,850
Speaker 2: when she was doing like nico case and her boyfriends

2871
02:03:24,890 --> 02:03:29,230
Speaker 2: and her first couple projects she she's always been so

2872
02:03:29,830 --> 02:03:32,810
Speaker 2: like 10 out of 10 stars perfect that like it's

2873
02:03:32,830 --> 02:03:35,050
Speaker 2: almost like she doesn't get appreciated enough anymore.

2874
02:03:34,810 --> 02:03:37,230
Speaker 4: That's how i feel about there's never like this transcendent

2875
02:03:37,310 --> 02:03:38,830
Speaker 4: one because they're all like that it's.

2876
02:03:38,970 --> 02:03:41,220
Speaker 2: Every song she writes, you're like, how did you think

2877
02:03:41,240 --> 02:03:43,700
Speaker 2: of that lyric? This is the best tune I've ever heard.

2878
02:03:44,120 --> 02:03:47,020
Speaker 2: Your voice makes me want to cry. It's just my favorite.

2879
02:03:47,120 --> 02:03:47,700
Speaker 4: That's amazing.

2880
02:03:48,060 --> 02:03:51,070
Speaker 3: Also, uh, Courtney Barnett has a new album out.

2881
02:03:51,150 --> 02:03:51,670
Speaker 4: I love her.

2882
02:03:52,230 --> 02:03:55,350
Speaker 3: Uh, called tell me how you really feel. And it

2883
02:03:55,430 --> 02:03:56,330
Speaker 3: is amazing.

2884
02:03:56,490 --> 02:03:59,090
Speaker 2: And one, it's such a good album as well. One

2885
02:03:59,130 --> 02:04:02,840
Speaker 2: of her songs, the chorus of it is, um, men

2886
02:04:02,880 --> 02:04:05,060
Speaker 2: are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are

2887
02:04:05,100 --> 02:04:06,240
Speaker 2: afraid that men will kill them.

2888
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:07,800
Speaker 3: That's the, Oh dear.

2889
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:09,690
Speaker 2: It's such, I, I'm not sure what the, I can't

2890
02:04:09,750 --> 02:04:12,130
Speaker 2: remember what the song is called, but it's such a

2891
02:04:12,170 --> 02:04:12,650
Speaker 2: good album.

2892
02:04:12,670 --> 02:04:12,830
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2893
02:04:13,010 --> 02:04:14,030
Speaker 3: It's really good. Okay.

2894
02:04:15,210 --> 02:04:20,490
Speaker 4: Uh, yeah. Okay. Um, mine is, uh, so I'm trying

2895
02:04:20,510 --> 02:04:24,280
Speaker 4: to get my fucking brain wrapped around deal, like money

2896
02:04:24,320 --> 02:04:26,580
Speaker 4: matters and like dealing with money and like what to

2897
02:04:26,640 --> 02:04:28,960
Speaker 4: do with money and like, where do you put it?

2898
02:04:29,180 --> 02:04:32,260
Speaker 4: If it's not under your mattress, like, you know, So

2899
02:04:32,280 --> 02:04:34,060
Speaker 4: there's a podcast about it, turns out.

2900
02:04:34,080 --> 02:04:34,900
Speaker 3: Oh, that's good.

2901
02:04:34,940 --> 02:04:37,360
Speaker 4: Yeah. And there's one that I found called Her Money

2902
02:04:37,420 --> 02:04:42,680
Speaker 4: Matters by Jen Hemphill that she just interviews money experts,

2903
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:46,750
Speaker 4: but in a way, but it's for women. And it's

2904
02:04:47,510 --> 02:04:50,010
Speaker 4: it makes it makes a lot of sense. And every

2905
02:04:50,050 --> 02:04:52,230
Speaker 4: episode is a different topic. So you can find the

2906
02:04:52,250 --> 02:04:53,870
Speaker 4: topics that speak to you.

2907
02:04:53,990 --> 02:04:56,410
Speaker 3: And so far, it's what you're curious about. Yeah.

2908
02:04:56,510 --> 02:04:59,630
Speaker 4: So it's really good. And that sounds great.

2909
02:04:59,670 --> 02:05:01,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's simple. It makes it really simple.

2910
02:05:02,270 --> 02:05:04,930
Speaker 2: You know, that's really smart, too, because it's like Oprah

2911
02:05:04,950 --> 02:05:07,150
Speaker 2: did that with Suzy Orman, where it's like, no, women,

2912
02:05:07,170 --> 02:05:08,910
Speaker 2: you have to you have to keep your eye on

2913
02:05:08,940 --> 02:05:10,300
Speaker 2: it and you have to be business people.

2914
02:05:10,400 --> 02:05:14,100
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's important. And so the topics are like stuff about.

2915
02:05:15,080 --> 02:05:17,850
Speaker 4: debt and being scared of money and how to have

2916
02:05:17,890 --> 02:05:20,930
Speaker 4: emotional not having emotional it's it's everything so if you're

2917
02:05:20,950 --> 02:05:23,150
Speaker 4: like but i don't want to think about money there's

2918
02:05:23,170 --> 02:05:25,640
Speaker 4: like an episode about that so that's great you have

2919
02:05:25,680 --> 02:05:26,090
Speaker 4: to do it.

2920
02:05:26,060 --> 02:05:28,360
Speaker 3: I see you're looking at me i see you looking

2921
02:05:28,400 --> 02:05:30,160
Speaker 3: at me george i see you look.

2922
02:05:30,040 --> 02:05:31,180
Speaker 4: I think you're the queen of the world and i

2923
02:05:31,220 --> 02:05:33,200
Speaker 4: think you're great with money and i think.

2924
02:05:33,060 --> 02:05:37,540
Speaker 3: You have no problems I mean, because here's the thing

2925
02:05:37,560 --> 02:05:38,080
Speaker 3: about money.

2926
02:05:38,100 --> 02:05:41,440
Speaker 2: I think women, there's storylines of like, would the women

2927
02:05:41,460 --> 02:05:44,280
Speaker 2: be shopping storylines of like, whatever, I'm upset. So I

2928
02:05:44,320 --> 02:05:46,330
Speaker 2: have to go shopping or all these things that like

2929
02:05:46,350 --> 02:05:48,670
Speaker 2: you get told that almost like it's like you're playing

2930
02:05:48,710 --> 02:05:49,110
Speaker 2: a part.

2931
02:05:49,250 --> 02:05:49,450
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2932
02:05:49,650 --> 02:05:52,010
Speaker 3: Instead of like, no, go be a fucking business person. Well,

2933
02:05:52,050 --> 02:05:54,450
Speaker 3: there's also Jen Cesaro.

2934
02:05:54,550 --> 02:05:57,800
Speaker 4: Who wrote You Are a Badass. It's You Are a Badass.

2935
02:05:57,920 --> 02:06:00,000
Speaker 4: She also now is one about You Are a Badass

2936
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:00,920
Speaker 4: at making money.

2937
02:06:01,430 --> 02:06:01,630
Speaker 1: Oh, good.

2938
02:06:01,650 --> 02:06:04,510
Speaker 3: And it's, you know, it's directed to women, but it's

2939
02:06:04,530 --> 02:06:04,970
Speaker 3: for everyone.

2940
02:06:05,010 --> 02:06:07,910
Speaker 4: But it also is around those things of, like, she

2941
02:06:07,950 --> 02:06:10,720
Speaker 4: talks about, like, what does money mean to you? Like,

2942
02:06:10,740 --> 02:06:12,900
Speaker 4: write the first five things down. And it's, like, based

2943
02:06:12,940 --> 02:06:15,600
Speaker 4: on when you were a kid, all that shit. So, like,

2944
02:06:15,640 --> 02:06:17,460
Speaker 4: when I was a kid, we used to go in

2945
02:06:17,480 --> 02:06:19,490
Speaker 4: grocery shopping. It was called Let's Go Bounce a Check.

2946
02:06:22,230 --> 02:06:24,290
Speaker 4: And I thought we were going to get chased down

2947
02:06:24,330 --> 02:06:28,810
Speaker 4: in the street and like arrested. So like your emotional

2948
02:06:28,830 --> 02:06:31,550
Speaker 4: attachment to money is so deep and it affects everything

2949
02:06:31,930 --> 02:06:33,650
Speaker 4: in your life. So just you can get a hold

2950
02:06:33,690 --> 02:06:36,840
Speaker 4: of it as an adult woman and make it about

2951
02:06:37,620 --> 02:06:38,360
Speaker 4: make it work for you.

2952
02:06:38,520 --> 02:06:39,620
Speaker 3: Yes. And you should.

2953
02:06:39,640 --> 02:06:41,500
Speaker 4: And you deserve to. And you'll feel so smart. You'll

2954
02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:43,620
Speaker 4: feel really good about yourself. So that's awesome. Check those out.

2955
02:06:44,060 --> 02:06:45,280
Speaker 3: Oh, you know what I want? Can I just say

2956
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:45,920
Speaker 3: one more thing?

2957
02:06:45,940 --> 02:06:46,010
Speaker 4: Yes.

2958
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:50,620
Speaker 2: This is not a fucking hooray, but it's almost just

2959
02:06:50,660 --> 02:06:54,340
Speaker 2: more of something to put out there. Because there was

2960
02:06:54,380 --> 02:06:58,000
Speaker 2: a couple things on Twitter last week. And it was

2961
02:06:58,300 --> 02:07:01,360
Speaker 2: a couple things that were related to people talking to

2962
02:07:01,400 --> 02:07:05,640
Speaker 2: people who didn't like our podcast. And one of them

2963
02:07:05,680 --> 02:07:09,180
Speaker 2: was a really well-written kind of analytical thread about.

2964
02:07:09,730 --> 02:07:11,490
Speaker 3: what she thinks about what the podcast means.

2965
02:07:11,510 --> 02:07:12,670
Speaker 4: Why are you reading this shit?

2966
02:07:13,030 --> 02:07:14,370
Speaker 3: No, it's just, it came up. Okay.

2967
02:07:14,770 --> 02:07:18,110
Speaker 2: And the other one was somebody who was upset because

2968
02:07:18,130 --> 02:07:21,670
Speaker 2: they heard somebody on another podcast, not liking our podcast

2969
02:07:21,790 --> 02:07:25,150
Speaker 2: and actually adding the person and adding us and then

2970
02:07:25,190 --> 02:07:27,700
Speaker 2: being like, this broke my heart. And I think this,

2971
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:29,800
Speaker 2: and I just want to say this, first of all,

2972
02:07:30,720 --> 02:07:32,880
Speaker 2: I know that both of those things came from love

2973
02:07:33,040 --> 02:07:34,900
Speaker 2: and they were trying to like communicate like.

2974
02:07:35,140 --> 02:07:36,500
Speaker 3: We care about you and whatever.

2975
02:07:36,860 --> 02:07:40,089
Speaker 2: But we don't, that's fine if people, we know that

2976
02:07:40,100 --> 02:07:43,010
Speaker 2: this podcast is not for everybody and we're not interested

2977
02:07:43,030 --> 02:07:45,810
Speaker 2: in converting people who don't like us. We don't need

2978
02:07:45,850 --> 02:07:48,110
Speaker 2: to do that and we're fine with it. So we

2979
02:07:48,170 --> 02:07:50,910
Speaker 2: certainly don't want to hear about it when it's happening.

2980
02:07:51,530 --> 02:07:54,790
Speaker 2: But on top of that, you don't need to feel

2981
02:07:55,830 --> 02:07:59,110
Speaker 2: like you have to change that situation or convince anybody

2982
02:07:59,150 --> 02:08:02,280
Speaker 2: of anything. Like we have our little community and we

2983
02:08:02,480 --> 02:08:03,300
Speaker 2: were doing great.

2984
02:08:03,400 --> 02:08:04,120
Speaker 3: And we're having a great time.

2985
02:08:04,140 --> 02:08:05,870
Speaker 4: What's so great about our little community is that it's

2986
02:08:05,950 --> 02:08:10,510
Speaker 4: filled with people who like, like we're each other's, um,

2987
02:08:11,550 --> 02:08:14,810
Speaker 4: allies in, in a thing that not everyone is into

2988
02:08:14,990 --> 02:08:17,330
Speaker 4: and it, we don't need to convince people. Yeah.

2989
02:08:17,370 --> 02:08:18,530
Speaker 3: And they're not, they don't need to be.

2990
02:08:18,530 --> 02:08:20,770
Speaker 4: That's why we like each other so much is that

2991
02:08:21,030 --> 02:08:22,110
Speaker 4: we're the ones who are into it.

2992
02:08:22,330 --> 02:08:24,210
Speaker 2: And it's, it's like from the beginning when people would

2993
02:08:24,230 --> 02:08:25,870
Speaker 2: be like, Oh, you have vocal fry or whatever.

2994
02:08:25,890 --> 02:08:28,010
Speaker 3: It's like, then don't fucking listen to the podcast. We

2995
02:08:28,050 --> 02:08:28,690
Speaker 3: don't give a shit.

2996
02:08:28,710 --> 02:08:31,330
Speaker 2: Like if you don't like it, if somebody doesn't like it,

2997
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:32,980
Speaker 2: you don't have to convince them of anything.

2998
02:08:33,000 --> 02:08:35,300
Speaker 3: You can be like, okay, cool. The end.

2999
02:08:35,980 --> 02:08:39,400
Speaker 2: And also I think the, the person who was adding

3000
02:08:39,440 --> 02:08:41,540
Speaker 2: the person who was on a podcast, I would like

3001
02:08:41,560 --> 02:08:41,920
Speaker 2: to say this.

3002
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:43,570
Speaker 3: I don't know who the person was that I don't

3003
02:08:43,590 --> 02:08:46,010
Speaker 3: have the podcast, but especially if it was a.

3004
02:08:46,010 --> 02:08:50,260
Speaker 2: Woman, pause on your need to correct or tell someone

3005
02:08:50,280 --> 02:08:54,160
Speaker 2: they can't say something. Because for me, all I've, when

3006
02:08:54,200 --> 02:08:56,820
Speaker 2: I started standup, all I did was criticize people and

3007
02:08:56,860 --> 02:08:58,540
Speaker 2: say what I hated and say, I didn't like something.

3008
02:08:59,040 --> 02:09:01,520
Speaker 3: That's your, that's that person's right to do.

3009
02:09:01,700 --> 02:09:01,940
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3010
02:09:02,160 --> 02:09:04,360
Speaker 3: They get to have a critical thought.

3011
02:09:04,940 --> 02:09:07,740
Speaker 2: This is a very popular thing right now that like

3012
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:12,730
Speaker 2: criticizing popular culture is what most podcasts are all about.

3013
02:09:13,270 --> 02:09:15,210
Speaker 2: If people want to do that and say, Hey, I

3014
02:09:15,270 --> 02:09:15,830
Speaker 2: don't like this.

3015
02:09:16,250 --> 02:09:16,750
Speaker 3: They can.

3016
02:09:17,270 --> 02:09:19,920
Speaker 2: And I stand by that. And especially if it's a

3017
02:09:19,960 --> 02:09:22,860
Speaker 2: woman going hey i don't like this thing do not

3018
02:09:22,940 --> 02:09:25,280
Speaker 2: correct them do not tell them they don't get to

3019
02:09:25,340 --> 02:09:28,020
Speaker 2: say that it's it's just like think of it in

3020
02:09:28,060 --> 02:09:31,430
Speaker 2: that way of like all these things can exist simultaneously

3021
02:09:31,890 --> 02:09:33,630
Speaker 2: people don't have to get along this is not a

3022
02:09:33,710 --> 02:09:36,650
Speaker 2: theme wedding it all doesn't have to go together you

3023
02:09:36,690 --> 02:09:41,420
Speaker 2: can have all these different likes and things and the end.

3024
02:09:41,260 --> 02:09:44,040
Speaker 4: The only the person the only person that we need

3025
02:09:44,060 --> 02:09:47,660
Speaker 4: to convince to like us is pow holes is chrissy teigen.

3026
02:09:49,340 --> 02:09:53,240
Speaker 3: And Paul Halls and everyone else. Those are our top two.

3027
02:09:53,260 --> 02:09:56,760
Speaker 2: But don't say that because people have already harassed Chrissy

3028
02:09:56,800 --> 02:09:59,339
Speaker 2: Teigen because she was like, I like true crime podcasts.

3029
02:09:59,580 --> 02:10:01,960
Speaker 3: What should I listen to? She asked for it. OK,

3030
02:10:02,120 --> 02:10:04,580
Speaker 3: but I mean, we're not relaunching.

3031
02:10:03,960 --> 02:10:06,260
Speaker 2: That fucking because I watch that wave go where I

3032
02:10:06,260 --> 02:10:09,060
Speaker 2: was like, anytime that happens, I'm like, please end it

3033
02:10:09,120 --> 02:10:10,020
Speaker 2: as soon as possible.

3034
02:10:11,560 --> 02:10:11,730
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3035
02:10:12,330 --> 02:10:14,710
Speaker 4: What we want to say is we fucking love you guys.

3036
02:10:14,790 --> 02:10:15,270
Speaker 3: We love you guys.

3037
02:10:15,330 --> 02:10:17,610
Speaker 4: And you support us. You guys fight our fights for us,

3038
02:10:17,670 --> 02:10:19,950
Speaker 4: and we appreciate that so much. I love when someone's

3039
02:10:20,010 --> 02:10:22,070
Speaker 4: mean on Instagram, and I don't need to say anything

3040
02:10:22,110 --> 02:10:25,910
Speaker 4: because fucking 10 rad murderinos are like, fuck you, and

3041
02:10:25,930 --> 02:10:26,520
Speaker 4: here's why.

3042
02:10:26,530 --> 02:10:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I never worry about that shit because there's

3043
02:10:29,120 --> 02:10:31,880
Speaker 2: always somebody that comes in and is just usually in

3044
02:10:31,920 --> 02:10:32,780
Speaker 2: a really funny way.

3045
02:10:32,920 --> 02:10:35,460
Speaker 3: They're just like, yeah, whatever, dude. So don't worry.

3046
02:10:35,500 --> 02:10:37,620
Speaker 4: What we're saying is we're so fucking lucky that we

3047
02:10:37,680 --> 02:10:41,520
Speaker 4: have this community and we don't need... The fucking haters.

3048
02:10:41,540 --> 02:10:44,140
Speaker 4: We just don't need you to worry. And the alien

3049
02:10:44,400 --> 02:10:47,580
Speaker 4: lizard robot people. Like, we've got each other and that's

3050
02:10:47,600 --> 02:10:54,020
Speaker 4: a lot. Okay, we are back. Karen, do you have

3051
02:10:54,060 --> 02:10:55,260
Speaker 4: Nico Case updates?

3052
02:10:55,690 --> 02:10:58,170
Speaker 2: I mean, I just have the updates that she had

3053
02:10:58,210 --> 02:11:00,210
Speaker 2: a memoir called The Harder I Fight, The More I

3054
02:11:00,290 --> 02:11:04,070
Speaker 2: Love You that came out in January of 2025. It

3055
02:11:04,110 --> 02:11:05,730
Speaker 2: actually reached number five on.

3056
02:11:05,690 --> 02:11:07,850
Speaker 3: The New York Times nonfiction bestseller list.

3057
02:11:08,410 --> 02:11:11,560
Speaker 2: She's so smart and such a good writer and has

3058
02:11:11,600 --> 02:11:18,020
Speaker 2: had a pretty fascinating life, like really cool. September of 2025,

3059
02:11:18,020 --> 02:11:21,440
Speaker 2: she released her first studio album since Hell On, the

3060
02:11:21,480 --> 02:11:24,730
Speaker 2: one I was recommending on that show. And it's called

3061
02:11:24,940 --> 02:11:28,130
Speaker 2: Neon Gray Midnight Green. And she produced it herself.

3062
02:11:28,330 --> 02:11:31,230
Speaker 1: Amazing. I have an update on the podcast I mentioned.

3063
02:11:31,730 --> 02:11:36,190
Speaker 1: In 2020, Jen Hemphill merged her two podcasts and renamed

3064
02:11:36,290 --> 02:11:39,850
Speaker 1: her Money Matters as her De Niro Matters, shifting toward

3065
02:11:39,890 --> 02:11:44,020
Speaker 1: a bilingual, Latina-centered approach while keeping it open to all listeners.

3066
02:11:44,080 --> 02:11:45,839
Speaker 1: So that's super awesome.

3067
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:46,740
Speaker 3: That's cool.

3068
02:11:47,060 --> 02:11:49,460
Speaker 1: The podcast celebrated its 10th anniversary in 2025 and reached

3069
02:11:49,460 --> 02:11:50,160
Speaker 1: 431 numbered episodes.

3070
02:11:50,180 --> 02:11:50,250
Speaker 4: Wow.

3071
02:11:50,260 --> 02:11:57,020
Speaker 1: Hey, we're same, same. I know. In addition to its

3072
02:11:57,100 --> 02:12:00,780
Speaker 1: shorter bonus installments, its most recent episode currently listed on

3073
02:12:00,840 --> 02:12:04,080
Speaker 1: Hemphill's site was released in June of 2025. So go

3074
02:12:04,100 --> 02:12:07,330
Speaker 1: check out Her De Niro Matters. Get as smart as

3075
02:12:07,370 --> 02:12:07,950
Speaker 1: you can.

3076
02:12:07,970 --> 02:12:09,010
Speaker 3: About your De Niro.

3077
02:12:09,190 --> 02:12:09,390
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3078
02:12:09,550 --> 02:12:12,990
Speaker 1: And then also I had mentioned You Are a Badass

3079
02:12:13,550 --> 02:12:16,510
Speaker 1: from Jen Sincero. And she followed that with You Are

3080
02:12:16,550 --> 02:12:18,590
Speaker 1: a Badass at Making Money, which I have in my

3081
02:12:18,630 --> 02:12:20,450
Speaker 1: self-help section of my book.

3082
02:12:20,570 --> 02:12:21,310
Speaker 4: Of your library.

3083
02:12:21,330 --> 02:12:21,730
Speaker 3: Oh, exactly.

3084
02:12:21,840 --> 02:12:24,820
Speaker 1: Exactly. That came out in 2018. And then also Jen

3085
02:12:24,840 --> 02:12:28,360
Speaker 1: Sincero followed You Are a Badass at Making Money with

3086
02:12:28,560 --> 02:12:32,730
Speaker 1: You Are a Badass Every Day in 2018 and Badass

3087
02:12:32,740 --> 02:12:35,750
Speaker 1: Habits in 2020, all of which I own. So those

3088
02:12:35,810 --> 02:12:40,110
Speaker 1: two women are just, I think, helping other women become badass.

3089
02:12:40,270 --> 02:12:41,150
Speaker 4: And I love that. Yeah.

3090
02:12:41,350 --> 02:12:43,030
Speaker 3: Great choices, 2018 us. Yeah.

3091
02:12:44,590 --> 02:12:48,670
Speaker 2: So this episode was originally entitled Errant Duct Tape. But

3092
02:12:48,850 --> 02:12:51,290
Speaker 2: if we were naming it today, we have so many

3093
02:12:51,350 --> 02:12:56,090
Speaker 2: wonderful choices, including footnoting the great fishermen. I think that

3094
02:12:56,130 --> 02:12:56,570
Speaker 2: would be good.

3095
02:12:56,750 --> 02:12:58,690
Speaker 1: The one that jumped out and made me laugh out

3096
02:12:58,730 --> 02:13:00,100
Speaker 1: loud is tanning my teeth.

3097
02:13:02,100 --> 02:13:05,780
Speaker 2: Every once in a while, like these old episodes, I'm like, oh, yeah,

3098
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:06,960
Speaker 2: there's good shit in here.

3099
02:13:07,400 --> 02:13:08,680
Speaker 1: Totally. Totally.

3100
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:10,340
Speaker 3: Good shit like Secret.

3101
02:13:10,040 --> 02:13:13,560
Speaker 2: Huge Head when we're talking about how surprisingly large your

3102
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:13,960
Speaker 2: head is.

3103
02:13:14,350 --> 02:13:15,200
Speaker 1: Right.

3104
02:13:15,430 --> 02:13:16,310
Speaker 3: Goat in a t-shirt.

3105
02:13:16,330 --> 02:13:17,270
Speaker 1: Come on.

3106
02:13:17,350 --> 02:13:18,070
Speaker 3: Come on.

3107
02:13:18,350 --> 02:13:21,610
Speaker 2: I mean, we've done it again. That's this week's episode

3108
02:13:21,630 --> 02:13:22,190
Speaker 2: of Rewind.

3109
02:13:22,630 --> 02:13:26,850
Speaker 1: So thanks for listening. Let's go say goodbye in 2018.

3110
02:13:29,300 --> 02:13:30,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, you guys.

3111
02:13:30,600 --> 02:13:33,920
Speaker 3: You're the best. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

3112
02:13:33,960 --> 02:13:35,340
Speaker 1: Goodbye. Elvis.

3113
02:13:35,960 --> 02:13:36,820
Speaker 3: Elvis, you want a cookie?

3114
02:13:38,280 --> 02:13:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3115
02:13:38,500 --> 02:13:39,590
Speaker 4: Goodbye.