WEBVTT - Ep 31 Giardia: Gerardia

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<v Speaker 1>July third.

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<v Speaker 2>I woke that morning lethargic. The coffee didn't help my

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<v Speaker 2>energy materialize, nor did it help clear away the clouds

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<v Speaker 2>that had formed in my brain. My functionability was so

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<v Speaker 2>affected that at one point I was sitting at my

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<v Speaker 2>desk holding my head in my hands. That was the

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<v Speaker 2>moment home seemed like the best place for me to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Something was wrong, something was churning. That was the night

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<v Speaker 2>the sickness hit. It reared its ugly head first by

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<v Speaker 2>the expulsion of the contents of my stomach. I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>stop it from happening. Try as I may, no deep

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<v Speaker 2>breath would stay the sick I was thwarted at every turn.

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<v Speaker 2>Worship at the throne of the toilet God was inevitable.

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<v Speaker 2>Dehydration became the scariest factor in this situation. I was

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<v Speaker 2>losing more water than I could drink, partly because I

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<v Speaker 2>had no desire to drink. I tried to work, I

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<v Speaker 2>tried to eat. I slept on my sofa, I slept

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<v Speaker 2>in my bed. I didn't get dressed. I barely ate,

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<v Speaker 2>sitting my apartment alone, feeling the rumblings of my bowels,

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<v Speaker 2>knowing that I was getting neither enough water nor nutrients

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<v Speaker 2>was alarming. July eighth, Tuesday, a week since the beginning niagara,

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<v Speaker 2>rushed again. All the happiness and confidence that had been

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<v Speaker 2>present on Monday got flushed right down the toilet. I

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<v Speaker 2>was scared, but I thought I just had to keep waiting.

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<v Speaker 2>July twenty fourth, I sent an email to my doctor's

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<v Speaker 2>office pleading my case, begging for a spot in his

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<v Speaker 2>busy schedule.

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<v Speaker 1>Three weeks after life.

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<v Speaker 2>Took a drastic turn towards Liquidville, I had an appointment

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<v Speaker 2>July twenty sixth Thursday. How was I going to catch

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<v Speaker 2>the evacuating contents of my colon bowl bag? Milk joke,

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<v Speaker 2>milk joke with the top cut off ew.

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<v Speaker 1>A bag it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Having finally figured out how to catch the liquid, I

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<v Speaker 2>was ready now to the fun part. I was back

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<v Speaker 2>on my knees at the throne. Only this time I

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<v Speaker 2>was armed with a spoon small, taller than one.

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<v Speaker 1>Used to feed a child. It's baby food.

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<v Speaker 2>Thankfully, I only had to scoop about a quarter inch

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<v Speaker 2>worth of waiste into each vial with a spoon that small,

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<v Speaker 2>though it took scoop after scoop after scoop. July twenty

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<v Speaker 2>ninth Sunday, I got a call from another doctor who

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<v Speaker 2>works with my doctor. I'd been compromised. Small amounts of

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<v Speaker 2>the parasite Girardia had been found a parasite. I had

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<v Speaker 2>a parasite. After the initial shock, relief again washed over me.

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<v Speaker 2>It was treatable with an antibiotic and I could actually

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<v Speaker 2>start it that day, August fifth, Sunday morning, I took

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<v Speaker 2>the final dose of antibiotic. The party is over. Girardia

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<v Speaker 2>has left the building. As the host of a few

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<v Speaker 2>human parties in my time, this was one of my

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<v Speaker 2>least favorite. A host should have fun at their own party,

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<v Speaker 2>but this party was full of selfish guests. They took

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<v Speaker 2>and took and took from me, giving me nothing in

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<v Speaker 2>return for my accommodations. That's a very you find the

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<v Speaker 2>best first hand accounts, Aaron.

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<v Speaker 3>That one is one of my favorites. I think it's amazing. Hi,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Aaron Welsh.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm Erin Almond Updike and.

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<v Speaker 3>This is this podcast will kill you?

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<v Speaker 2>And where did that first hand account come from?

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron?

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<v Speaker 3>So that came from a blog I found. It's Michael

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<v Speaker 3>Roarer dot blogspot dot com, and it's from a August

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twelve entry titled Giardia Ruined My gily Idea, which

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<v Speaker 3>is an amazing title.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a very good title.

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<v Speaker 3>So, as you might have guessed, this week we are

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<v Speaker 3>covering Giardia. Yes, we are the beautiful, beautiful protozoan parasite

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<v Speaker 3>that will cause you to have horrible diarrhea.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, how fun, wonderful? What enjoy?

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<v Speaker 2>This is kind of back to our standards in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of disease, which I feel like we haven't done for

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<v Speaker 2>a while. So I'm excited to like it's a it's

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<v Speaker 2>a pathogen, and it makes you sick, like our first

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<v Speaker 2>season ones. You know, I feel like we've been doing

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<v Speaker 2>some off the wall crazy episodes lately.

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<v Speaker 3>We did h Pylori, which was along the same lines.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true. Yeah, no, it's hard to keep track.

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<v Speaker 3>We have done a lot of sort of non traditional

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<v Speaker 3>format type ones.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very excited for this.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm excited to hear all about how it works. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't really know how it works.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh good, I can't wait to tell you.

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<v Speaker 3>To honor Giardia. What are we drinking this week?

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<v Speaker 2>Our quarantine this week is backpackers Delight.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a good that's named because it is a very

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<v Speaker 3>frequent infection in backpackers and many other people as well.

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<v Speaker 3>But backpackers tend to get it from drinking contaminated streams,

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<v Speaker 3>so make sure to filter your water. People. What's in

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<v Speaker 3>backpackers delight.

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<v Speaker 2>In this beverage. We have coconut water, you know, to

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<v Speaker 2>rehydrate you after all that diarrhea, perf pineapple juice because

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<v Speaker 2>it's tasty with coconut water, Ginger liqueur because that's good

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<v Speaker 2>for your stomach, right fans, and vodka.

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<v Speaker 3>Not good for your stomach, not good to rehydrate you,

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<v Speaker 3>but essential for our quarantini. Yes, but our Placy Burrita

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<v Speaker 3>does not contain alcohol, and we will post the recipe

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<v Speaker 3>to both the Quarantini and the alcohol free Plasy Brita

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<v Speaker 3>on our website and on our social media platforms.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes we will.

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<v Speaker 2>So before we start on today's episode, I actually have

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<v Speaker 2>two corrections that I'd like to make that people emailed

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<v Speaker 2>us about so very quickly. One is from I believe

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<v Speaker 2>our last episode or second to last episode on encephalitis,

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<v Speaker 2>so in that this is very embarrassing. Aaron, you mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>that Robert de Niro like won the Academy Award, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, I'll fact check you. And I

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<v Speaker 2>did that live during our recording of the episode, and

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<v Speaker 2>I failed at fact checking you.

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<v Speaker 1>I did it incorrectly. Robert de Niro did not win.

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<v Speaker 2>Academy Award for Best Actor for Awakenings, but he was

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<v Speaker 2>dominated he was nominated. Thank you to True Trivia Nerd

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<v Speaker 2>Amelia for writing to.

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<v Speaker 1>Let us know.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks Amelia, Yeah, keep on the path.

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<v Speaker 2>Oscar Trivia Nerd self proclaimed.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>The other one is from our recent crossover with Indefensive

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<v Speaker 2>Plants where we talked about aspirin. So as I was

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<v Speaker 2>talking about all the various effects of aspirin, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the effects of aspirin is that it's an antipyritic or

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<v Speaker 2>an anti fever, so it reduces fever. Yeah, And in

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<v Speaker 2>the episode I mentioned that this is due to its

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<v Speaker 2>effects on vasodilation.

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<v Speaker 1>I got over excited.

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<v Speaker 2>Vasodilation can produce like local heat production, so like if

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<v Speaker 2>you get a cut and then you have heat, the

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<v Speaker 2>cut feels hot. That kind of heat production can be

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<v Speaker 2>from the vasodilation. But systemically, aspirin is even cooler in

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<v Speaker 2>that prostaglandins in your brain, which aspirin blocks the production

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<v Speaker 2>of modulate the temperature center in your brain. So aspirin

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<v Speaker 2>and other end sets actually work by reducing the temperature

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<v Speaker 2>set point in your brain or blocking the increase in it,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's how they reduce fever. So that's actually a

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<v Speaker 2>much cooler mechanism, and I'm really bummed that I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>mention it in that episode. So thank you very much

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<v Speaker 2>to Kelly for emailing about this.

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<v Speaker 3>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>For anyone listening who has no idea what I'm talking about,

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<v Speaker 2>that means you didn't listen to our ASPERN episodes, so you.

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<v Speaker 1>Should go check it out. Hey, Okay, is that all

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<v Speaker 1>the business that we have?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>I think so.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, then let's take a quick break and then get

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<v Speaker 1>started on the biology.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's do it. Girardia Okay. First of all, there are

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<v Speaker 3>there's only one R in giardia.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I always call it girardia, butler giardia. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that better?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? It's like it's like I think it's the biology

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<v Speaker 3>equivalent of saying nuclear.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, but I am always afraid that I'm gonna do that,

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<v Speaker 2>so I never say that word in public. Let's say it,

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<v Speaker 2>no girardia, okay, Beaver fever. That's what we're talking about today.

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<v Speaker 2>So gr diasis, which is the disease caused by Girardia.

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<v Speaker 2>Still doing it, Girardia giardia.

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<v Speaker 1>There we go. Listen, it's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>Giardiasis is the most frequently diagnosed intestinal parasite in the

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<v Speaker 2>United States. That's my first fact for you. It's a massive,

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<v Speaker 2>massive disease worldwide. It's common among travelers, it's common across

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<v Speaker 2>the globe. So let's talk about what it is. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>first of all, it's a parasite. It's a protozoan, which

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<v Speaker 2>means it's a single celled organism. Protozoin is not a

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<v Speaker 2>great word, but I used it.

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<v Speaker 1>So there.

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<v Speaker 2>It has three different names, three different species names that

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<v Speaker 2>people call it, and it's all the same species, which

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<v Speaker 2>is just to me the most annoying thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh. It made it very difficult to research.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>It has also changed throughout history multiple times.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I'm not surprised about that at all.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So in medicine, they're more likely to call it Girardia lamblia. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but in the rest of everything other than like human medicine,

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<v Speaker 2>it's Girardia duodenalis or Girardia intestinalis, which is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>funny because duodenum is just the first part of your intestine,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's kind of like those are interchangeable. But anyways, Girardia,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm only saying one are erin.

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<v Speaker 1>It's never gonna stop. I can't at this point, it's

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<v Speaker 1>too late. It's a flagelet, so that means it has flagella,

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<v Speaker 1>which we've talked about before that they use to move.

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<v Speaker 2>And swim like a little tail, little tail in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>not just one little tail. Girardia.

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<v Speaker 1>God, I did it again, didn't I.

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<v Speaker 2>Giardia has four sets of flagella, so it actually has

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<v Speaker 2>eight that it uses to swim around, and it has

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<v Speaker 2>two adorable little nuclei that look like eyeballs. Giardia is

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<v Speaker 2>one of the cutest parasites of all time in my opinion.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just gonna say, I think it is the cutest

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<v Speaker 3>one we've done so far.

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<v Speaker 4>It is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's one of the top cutest ones

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<v Speaker 2>ever because it really looks just like a little person's head. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they're so cute. Okay, So, because this is a parasite,

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<v Speaker 2>we get to talk about the life cycle as far

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<v Speaker 2>as parasites go. Girardia has a very simple life cycle

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<v Speaker 2>compared to a lot of parasites. It has two different

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<v Speaker 2>life cycle forms. Inside of your intestine, it's called a trophozoite,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is the form that looks like what I describe.

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<v Speaker 2>So it has two big old nuclei that look like

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<v Speaker 2>eyes and eight floppy flagella that look like hair running

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<v Speaker 2>off of it. So the trophozoite form can swim through

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<v Speaker 2>your intestine stick on to your gut walls.

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<v Speaker 1>And then they also.

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<v Speaker 2>Divide by fission, so one trophozoite can actually replicate and

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<v Speaker 2>replicate and replicate all on its own. They also then

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<v Speaker 2>form a cyst phase, and the cyst phase is what

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<v Speaker 2>you're most likely to poop out and what ends up

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<v Speaker 2>in the environment. You poop out trophozoides too, But the

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<v Speaker 2>cysts are really important in their life cycle because the

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<v Speaker 2>cysts are very resistant to environmental stressors, so they can

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<v Speaker 2>survive in water like ponds and rivers and storm drains

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<v Speaker 2>and mountain streams for weeks to months, and then when

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<v Speaker 2>an unsuspecting animal comes by to take a drink from

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<v Speaker 2>that beautiful mountain spring, they're going to get a big

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<v Speaker 2>old mouthful of Girardia cysts, and then inside of your

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<v Speaker 2>body or the animal's body, that cyst will then split

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<v Speaker 2>and produce two trophozoites and begin the cycle all over again.

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<v Speaker 3>How cool, right, It's beautiful and simple. I like it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's simple.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's simple. It's straightforward. Another thing that's very cool

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<v Speaker 2>about the cysts is that they're resistant to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the common ways that we disinfect water, including chlorination

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<v Speaker 2>and ozone nation or whatever you call it o zonification.

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<v Speaker 3>But the chlorination is the chlorination that we use to

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<v Speaker 3>treat the drinking water high enough to kill Giardia nod dude.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to filter it or you have.

0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:31.920
<v Speaker 1>To boil it. Oh, Girardia can live in your pool

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>for up to like forty five minutes, not for a

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 1>long time.

0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 3>Huh interesting yes.

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmmmmmmmm.

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 2>And when you're infected with it, you can poop out

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:49.600
<v Speaker 2>between one and ten billion with a b cysts.

0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Every time you.

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.680
<v Speaker 3>Poop ten billion is a lot of cysts.

0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.680
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot of cysts. And guess how many cys

0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:58.400
<v Speaker 2>it takes to get you sick.

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Probably one, well, usually about at least ten.

0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Anyways, So that's why it's really really common to get

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.840
<v Speaker 2>girardia from contaminated water sources. That's one of the most

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.560
<v Speaker 2>common ways that we think about the transmission of giardia

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 2>is from contaminated water. However, you can also get infected

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 2>directly with trophozoites, which you're also pooping out at the

0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 2>same time that you poop out cysts. So other places

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 2>that you can get infected are places that have a

0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:38.640
<v Speaker 2>little bit less hygiene, like maybe daycare centers AHA, which

0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 2>are one of the most common places that we see

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 2>outbreaks in for example the United States. Tiny humans poop

0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 2>their diapers, rub their hands in it, touch their friends faces.

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Everyone gets girardia.

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:56.239
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we see a lot of gi things, parasized

0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 3>pathogens that yeah, filthy, filthy, tiny hum yes.

0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so let's talk about the symptoms. Symptoms can range

0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 2>from absolutely nothing entirely asymptomatic, just feeling normal, pooping out

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 2>parasites without ever knowing that you're sick, to an acute

0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.160
<v Speaker 2>illness that pretty much is self limited so you have

0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.120
<v Speaker 2>diarrhea for a short time and then you get better,

0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 2>to some pretty severe chronic infections that can result in

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>things like weight loss and malnutrition.

0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Question yes, what proportion are asymptomatic versus symptomatic.

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:39.320
<v Speaker 1>That's a good question.

0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I haven't found an exact number on that, and in

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.040
<v Speaker 2>the epidemiology section we'll talk a little bit about why

0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 2>that's hard. But it does seem to be a pretty

0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.000
<v Speaker 2>high proportion, and it depends on what strains of the

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.240
<v Speaker 2>parasite are circulating in the area, because different strains are

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 2>more likely to produce asymptomatic infections than symptomatic infections.

0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 1>It's a good question.

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 2>So the variability and presentation, like I said, is partially

0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.720
<v Speaker 2>due to the virulence of the pathogen, like which one

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.439
<v Speaker 2>you end up getting infected with, but it also has

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.200
<v Speaker 2>a lot to do with your own host immune factor,

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.000
<v Speaker 2>so just something about you that makes you more likely

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:21.040
<v Speaker 2>to get a symptomatic infection. And then also the infectious dose.

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.560
<v Speaker 2>So how many of those cysts did you actually swallow?

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:30.639
<v Speaker 2>So let's talk about how it causes these symptoms, because

0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm really excited about it.

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:32.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, me too.

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 2>So the biggest symptom that you get with grdiasis is diarrhea.

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:45.399
<v Speaker 2>You also get generalized abdominal pain, maybe distinctionion, maybe it

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 2>feels big. Maybe you get nausea and vomiting. You can

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:56.760
<v Speaker 2>definitely get that from infection with GRDA getting better, but

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.920
<v Speaker 2>diarrhea is the number one. So it turns out that

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.240
<v Speaker 2>we don't know everything about how it causes these symptoms,

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.800
<v Speaker 2>but we do know a few things. So first of all,

0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Giardia does not invade your intestine wall, so unlike something

0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:19.840
<v Speaker 2>like hookworm that when it gets in is going to

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.080
<v Speaker 2>make a hole in your intestine and like actually punch through,

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Giardia doesn't do that. What it does is it has

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.320
<v Speaker 2>on its ventral surface, so on the opposite side of

0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.080
<v Speaker 2>where the flagella are, it has this adhesive disk, so

0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.920
<v Speaker 2>it uses its flagella to swim through your intestine up

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.600
<v Speaker 2>to the wall of your intestine, and then it uses

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.639
<v Speaker 2>this adhesive disk to just suction cup on to the

0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 2>wall of your intestine and then do what and then

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.960
<v Speaker 2>absorb your food essentially and just live and replicate. And

0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.200
<v Speaker 2>they replicate by fission, so you don't need to have

0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.800
<v Speaker 2>multiple parasites to replicate. They just replicate the way that

0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 2>bacteria do. They just divide. They don't sexually reproduce.

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.040
<v Speaker 3>There is some question as to whether they do sexually reproduce.

0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 2>They definitely do recombination, which is cool.

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's some really interesting articles that are like sex

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.160
<v Speaker 3>in the dark. Does giardia have sex in the dark

0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 3>or something like that.

0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.360
<v Speaker 1>It would be pretty dark in your intestine.

0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 3>But so how long does an average giardia infection last

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:30.760
<v Speaker 3>if untreated?

0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.199
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to say because in some cases it can

0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.919
<v Speaker 2>cause a really prolonged chronic infection. If you just have

0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.879
<v Speaker 2>an acute infection, it'll probably resolve in a number of weeks,

0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.639
<v Speaker 2>but some people can be infected for months and months.

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So it's it's.

0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 2>A very difficult thing to put like a straight number

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:49.880
<v Speaker 2>on the incubation period. So the time from when you're

0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.919
<v Speaker 2>first infected to when you start showing symptoms is usually

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:58.720
<v Speaker 2>between one and three weeks, okay, Okay. So, once this

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:05.239
<v Speaker 2>parasite is a onto your intestine wall, they have a

0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.960
<v Speaker 2>number of different mechanisms that again none of them are

0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 2>completely well understood, but these are the things that end

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 2>up resulting in you having potentially massive diarrhea. So first

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 2>is that they basically induce the cells, the epithelial cells

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:27.840
<v Speaker 2>lining your intestine to start undergoing apoptosis, which is cell suicide.

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:29.479
<v Speaker 3>That's bad news, I know.

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.439
<v Speaker 2>So they don't directly kill any of your cells, but

0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.479
<v Speaker 2>they kick somehow something that they're releasing causes those cells

0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.760
<v Speaker 2>to start undergoing apoptosis and essentially dying. So what that

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.360
<v Speaker 2>is going to do is increase the permeability of that

0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:49.000
<v Speaker 2>epithelial cell layer. So normally the cells of your intestine,

0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:52.480
<v Speaker 2>you can imagine, are very tightly packed because you only

0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 2>want certain things to pass through. Right, you want to

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.560
<v Speaker 2>absorb nutrients but leave a lot of stuff in your intestine.

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 2>You want to absorb water, but not too much water,

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.200
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. Right, it's a very fine balance the whole

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.159
<v Speaker 2>process of digestion. So you're basically poking a bunch of

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:15.200
<v Speaker 2>holes by destroying these cells lining your intestine. On top

0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 2>of that, they flatten the microvilli. So microvilli are the

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:25.359
<v Speaker 2>protrusions on your intestinal wall that increase surface area to

0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 2>be able to absorb water and nutrients. If you flatten those,

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 2>then you decrease the surface area. Then you can't absorb

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.080
<v Speaker 2>that water and nutrient as well. So what that means

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.480
<v Speaker 2>is that in combination, when you have increased permeability and

0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 2>then you also have a decrease in the microvilli, you're

0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 2>completely messing up digestion essentially and absorption. What that means

0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:55.159
<v Speaker 2>is that you're gonna end up with more stuff left

0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.320
<v Speaker 2>in your intestine, and that's going to pull even more

0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.719
<v Speaker 2>water out from your cells into your intestine instead of

0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.639
<v Speaker 2>the other way. So that means that you're left with

0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:09.440
<v Speaker 2>a watery stool. And that's what diarrhea essentially is. Right,

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:13.399
<v Speaker 2>It's like your food is passing through without actually getting absorbed.

0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:18.400
<v Speaker 3>Does diarrhea have to be three times in twenty four

0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:19.000
<v Speaker 3>hour period?

0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:24.000
<v Speaker 2>This is that's a very good question. No, there's no

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:28.120
<v Speaker 2>official definition on how you classify diarrhea. Usually we say

0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.560
<v Speaker 2>three stools in three loose stools in twenty four hours

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.840
<v Speaker 2>is when you can start being like, oh, I have

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.760
<v Speaker 2>diarrhea and not just like one bad poop or something

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:38.040
<v Speaker 2>like that.

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.600
<v Speaker 1>But it's not an official official definition.

0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:41.360
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:47.639
<v Speaker 2>On top of that, there have been studies that show

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:54.119
<v Speaker 2>that girardia giardia increases the rate of transit through your intestine,

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.560
<v Speaker 2>so your food is moving faster, and if it's moving faster,

0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:00.480
<v Speaker 2>then your body can't absorb everything that's in it. So

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.600
<v Speaker 2>that's another way that it can cause diarrhea and malnutrition.

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Because if it's moving so fast that you can't absorb

0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:12.359
<v Speaker 2>what's in there, boom, dude, no good hmm.

0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 3>I wonder if what you eat affects any of these things?

0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.639
<v Speaker 2>Oh, what a good question. That's a very fun question.

0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:26.640
<v Speaker 2>There's more, Okay, on top of all of that, there's

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:31.919
<v Speaker 2>some evidence that giardia causes hyper secretion of electrolytes. So

0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.280
<v Speaker 2>on top of not allowing your intestine to properly absorb

0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:40.639
<v Speaker 2>electrolytes and other things in your intestine, it causes the

0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:45.600
<v Speaker 2>secretion of electrolytes from your cells into your intestine. And

0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:48.600
<v Speaker 2>wherever electrolytes go, water goes.

0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 1>So now you have.

0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Even more water going from your body into your intestine

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:54.560
<v Speaker 2>instead of the other way around.

0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:58.720
<v Speaker 3>Definitely kicking you when you're down. It's not content to

0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:03.520
<v Speaker 3>just like ringes a little bit. Is like no, completely dry,

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:08.080
<v Speaker 3>completely dry, burning some bridges there, right.

0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:12.600
<v Speaker 2>And so that's all of sort of the diarrhea based

0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:18.480
<v Speaker 2>things that giardia. Giardia does, Okay, okay, pretty cool.

0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:20.160
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot and.

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:22.920
<v Speaker 2>We don't fully understand exactly how it happens, but it's

0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 2>easy to see how the few things that we do

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:30.359
<v Speaker 2>know can end up leading to maldigestion, so losing nutrients, malabsorption,

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.359
<v Speaker 2>not being able to absorb these nutrients. So if you

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:36.480
<v Speaker 2>if you are not able to fight this parasite off,

0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 2>and you have it chronically, it's easy to see how

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.119
<v Speaker 2>this can become a pretty serious infection that leads.

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:43.200
<v Speaker 1>To poor nutrition.

0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Now here's some things that I didn't really realize when

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:49.280
<v Speaker 2>I started researching this.

0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:54.800
<v Speaker 1>In many cases, giardia is linked.

0:24:54.720 --> 0:25:00.280
<v Speaker 2>To later development of a whole host of disease that

0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:06.680
<v Speaker 2>we usually consider to be more autoimmune, like irritable bowel syndrome. Ah,

0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:10.960
<v Speaker 2>there's a pretty strong association between infection with gerardia and

0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:12.440
<v Speaker 2>irritable bowel syndrome.

0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:13.119
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:18.960
<v Speaker 2>You also can get extra intestinal manifestations, so that means

0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:23.280
<v Speaker 2>manifestations of this infection outside of your intestine, but not

0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:28.840
<v Speaker 2>from the parasite because again, this parasite doesn't penetrate your

0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:32.760
<v Speaker 2>intestine wall, so the parasite itself isn't traveling through your

0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:36.000
<v Speaker 2>bloodstream and going anywhere else. But you can still get

0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 2>ocular symptoms, you can get like eye infection type symptoms.

0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:44.760
<v Speaker 2>You can get joint pains, you can get skin rashes

0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:46.840
<v Speaker 2>from gerardia.

0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:51.000
<v Speaker 3>Infection does it have some sort of surface protein that

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:52.880
<v Speaker 3>mimics human surface protein.

0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:55.399
<v Speaker 1>You're so so, I love it, Aaron.

0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:59.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it mimics human proteins, but there

0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:04.040
<v Speaker 2>is thought that because the intestinal wall permeability is increased,

0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:09.720
<v Speaker 2>anigens from Gerardia are being sucked into your bloodstream and

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:13.800
<v Speaker 2>those are what's causing the extra intestinal manifestation. So it's

0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:16.040
<v Speaker 2>not the parasit itself, but it's some of their surface

0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:17.879
<v Speaker 2>protein that make it into your bloodstream.

0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:21.600
<v Speaker 3>How cool, that's cool, that's cool. That's horrible.

0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 1>That's horrible.

0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:28.960
<v Speaker 3>I have a question about a symptom, Yes, rotten egg burps.

0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I heard you mentioned that earlier, sulfur burps. M

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I didn't come across that as a thing in researching this,

0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:41.480
<v Speaker 2>but I mean, it's totally screwing up your gut.

0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:43.240
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I just.

0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:46.639
<v Speaker 3>Wondered what specifically would be causing the sulfur smell from that.

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know, huh.

0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:57.439
<v Speaker 2>The good news about this parasite is that it's pretty

0:26:57.480 --> 0:27:01.840
<v Speaker 2>easy to treat. Yeah, basically, just go on a course

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:08.840
<v Speaker 2>of antimicrobials, usually metronitozol or nitozoxinide. Another just there's a

0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.920
<v Speaker 2>couple different classes of antimicrobials that we can use that

0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:15.359
<v Speaker 2>are very effective so far at treating it. The problem is,

0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:20.240
<v Speaker 2>reinfection is really really common, especially if the reason that

0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:22.560
<v Speaker 2>you got infected in the first place was that sanitation

0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:25.679
<v Speaker 2>isn't great where you live or something like that. If

0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:29.440
<v Speaker 2>you got infected while you were out backpacking, you're probably

0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:30.359
<v Speaker 2>less likely to get.

0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Reinfected once you clear that infection.

0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:35.320
<v Speaker 2>But anyways, I'll talk a little bit more about that

0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:40.480
<v Speaker 2>all in the epidumiology section. But anyways, that's the biology

0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:42.400
<v Speaker 2>of GRDA.

0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 3>I like it on the surface straightforward, but I think

0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.080
<v Speaker 3>there's a little bit more interesting things going on.

0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it seems like there's very very cool research

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 2>being done on figuring out exactly how this pathogen ends

0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:59.440
<v Speaker 2>up causing all these different manifestations and exactly how it's

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.560
<v Speaker 2>affecting all the different cell layers in your intestine.

0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 1>It's very cool.

0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:07.560
<v Speaker 2>We at this point don't even know exactly how it adheres.

0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:09.679
<v Speaker 2>We know there's a bunch of different proteins that are

0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:14.480
<v Speaker 2>interacting on that ventral disc to suction it on, but still, well.

0:28:14.320 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 3>It's surprising that it's sort of an up and coming

0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:21.840
<v Speaker 3>field of research, considering that it's so widespread.

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Shall we take a quick break, and then

0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:29.159
<v Speaker 2>I want you to tell me all about how we

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:32.320
<v Speaker 2>got here and where the heck this parasite came from.

0:28:32.680 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'll do. I'll try my best. Before I get started,

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 3>I just want to admit that when I was researching

0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:08.280
<v Speaker 3>this history, I had a bit of a tough time.

0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:12.600
<v Speaker 3>And you know this because I complain to you in excess.

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:15.200
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say excess.

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 3>Well, I did complain about it, yeah, which is nice

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:23.880
<v Speaker 3>to have this be something to complain about instead of

0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:26.680
<v Speaker 3>many other things. But it shows that my life is

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:30.600
<v Speaker 3>pretty good. But the thing is is that there isn't

0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:34.960
<v Speaker 3>a super cut and dry history of giardia in humans,

0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:37.880
<v Speaker 3>which is strange to me because it is one of

0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:42.080
<v Speaker 3>the most prevalent waterborne infections and causes of diarrhea around

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:46.000
<v Speaker 3>the world today and has probably held that title for centuries.

0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:51.160
<v Speaker 3>Giardia doesn't have the glitz and glam of a pathogen

0:29:51.280 --> 0:29:55.400
<v Speaker 3>like cholera. It's more of a background parasite, always kind

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:57.560
<v Speaker 3>of causing a bit of trouble here and there, but

0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 3>rarely headline worthy of glitz.

0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:04.800
<v Speaker 1>And glam of color, and anyone.

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:09.640
<v Speaker 3>Said that about cholera before, not until this podcast. That's

0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 3>why we're here. Yeah, but the history of Giardia can

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:18.080
<v Speaker 3>be condensed pretty much into a few sentences, and in

0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 3>most of the papers that I skimmed, that's all that

0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:23.920
<v Speaker 3>it was. But that wouldn't really make for a very

0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:28.680
<v Speaker 3>good podcast episode in my opinion. So I kept digging deeper.

0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:32.320
<v Speaker 3>And as I dug more and more into the history

0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 3>of Giardia, I found that it was part of a

0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.680
<v Speaker 3>largest story that I could tell, one about a new

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:45.480
<v Speaker 3>way to see the world. Ooh, okay, just bear with me.

0:30:45.680 --> 0:30:46.760
<v Speaker 3>I hope this is okay.

0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:48.040
<v Speaker 1>I love it already.

0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:53.400
<v Speaker 3>Giardia was first described in sixteen eighty one by the

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 3>famous Anthony von Lavenhook when he was examining his diarrheal

0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:04.600
<v Speaker 3>poop under a microscope of his own making. Yeah, that's

0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:06.560
<v Speaker 3>the kind of guy he was. I think he would

0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 3>have been a fan of TP. We would have been friends,

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:09.760
<v Speaker 3>for sure.

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:13.960
<v Speaker 3>Possibly. And so this isn't the first time that we've

0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:16.880
<v Speaker 3>come across laven Hook during the podcast. And I remember

0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:20.000
<v Speaker 3>this because every time I talk about him, I have

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:21.880
<v Speaker 3>to try to figure out how to say his name,

0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:25.560
<v Speaker 3>and I end up just crossing my fingers and hoping

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 3>for the best. But mostly when I've mentioned laven Hook,

0:31:29.040 --> 0:31:32.120
<v Speaker 3>it's just been in passing. So this guy named laven

0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:34.160
<v Speaker 3>Hook saw this thing, and then I would move on

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.200
<v Speaker 3>to another part of the history. But for this episode,

0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 3>I really wanted to go more into this period of

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:43.520
<v Speaker 3>science and what a critical role the microscope played in

0:31:43.560 --> 0:31:48.760
<v Speaker 3>the development of many different scientific fields and even more importantly,

0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:54.240
<v Speaker 3>maybe or more interestingly, our perception of the world on

0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 3>the surface. Anthony van Lavenhook may not have been the

0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.720
<v Speaker 3>person you would have predicted would discover and develop a

0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:03.680
<v Speaker 3>new way to see the world. He was born in

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:06.560
<v Speaker 3>sixteen thirty two in Delft in what was then the

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.200
<v Speaker 3>Dutch Republic. He was a cloth merchant and a bureaucrat

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:13.680
<v Speaker 3>for most of his life, and throughout a lot of

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:17.600
<v Speaker 3>his life he didn't really seem preoccupied or even that

0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:20.960
<v Speaker 3>much interested in the natural world. It was only later

0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 3>that he started to dabble in lens making and maps

0:32:24.840 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 3>and collecting of odd specimens and having a curiosity's cabinet,

0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:32.760
<v Speaker 3>which was by the way, all the rage of course,

0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 3>in the Dutch Republic in the mid sixteen hundreds.

0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:36.880
<v Speaker 1>The curiosity's cabinet, of course.

0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:42.720
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, I want a curiosity's cabinet. I'm getting there, okay.

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:49.200
<v Speaker 3>One warm August day in sixteen seventy four, Lavenhook was

0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:52.960
<v Speaker 3>relaxed and maybe a tad restless. Though, now that he

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:55.520
<v Speaker 3>was retired and no longer had his thread counts to

0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:59.160
<v Speaker 3>keep him occupied, he had turned his sites toward natural

0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:03.080
<v Speaker 3>science pursuit, which often pulled him outside into the sun.

0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:08.880
<v Speaker 3>On this particular August day, he does something extraordinary, something

0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:11.959
<v Speaker 3>that would go on to revolutionize our understanding of the

0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 3>world around us. He had taken some water from a

0:33:15.600 --> 0:33:18.840
<v Speaker 3>lake that was a couple hours walk away, and he

0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:21.200
<v Speaker 3>put it in a lens and tube mechanism that he

0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 3>had made himself an early microscope. Even though the lake

0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:28.400
<v Speaker 3>was cleaned, or at least believed to be clean by

0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:32.040
<v Speaker 3>the people who lived near the lake, the drop of

0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 3>lake water that he examined is teeming with life not

0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:39.200
<v Speaker 3>visible to the human eye on its own. The motion

0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 3>of these animal couoles and the water was so swift

0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:45.240
<v Speaker 3>and so various downwards and roundabout that I confess I

0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:49.440
<v Speaker 3>could not but wonder at it. He said about this lakewater,

0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:56.640
<v Speaker 3>This marks the first time in history, probably that humans

0:33:56.640 --> 0:33:59.840
<v Speaker 3>had gotten a glimpse of an entirely new world not

0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:04.800
<v Speaker 3>visible to the naked eye. Discoveries like this don't often

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 3>happen in isolation, although they're often told in that way.

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:12.719
<v Speaker 3>There's almost always some kind of build up that has

0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 3>made at the right time in place for a particular

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:17.359
<v Speaker 3>development to take place, or at least that's how we

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:21.279
<v Speaker 3>can see it in retrospect. So in this case, what

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:24.200
<v Speaker 3>was going on in the world in sixteen seventy four

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:28.200
<v Speaker 3>that had set the stage for laven Hook's discovery. So

0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:30.239
<v Speaker 3>at the time that laven Hook was looking through his

0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:34.960
<v Speaker 3>microscope at this previously undiscovered world, the scientific world was

0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:39.960
<v Speaker 3>undergoing something of a revolution, and maybe more accurately, was

0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:44.840
<v Speaker 3>being born. Whereas in the past it was enough for

0:34:44.920 --> 0:34:47.919
<v Speaker 3>someone to rely on the words or the writings of

0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:52.360
<v Speaker 3>those ancient philosophers who had come before, the trend was

0:34:52.400 --> 0:34:57.960
<v Speaker 3>shifting towards emphasis on data that you obtained empirically through observations,

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:01.600
<v Speaker 3>and this often meant personally observing the phenomenon that you

0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:05.880
<v Speaker 3>were interested in, then publishing your observations, and then having

0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:10.439
<v Speaker 3>other people independently confirm what you had seen. But these

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:15.080
<v Speaker 3>people who were not yet called scientists needed tools that

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:18.200
<v Speaker 3>would enable them to accurately measure whatever it was they

0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:22.560
<v Speaker 3>were interested in and produce consistent results across other observers.

0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:26.000
<v Speaker 3>And as we know, necessity is the mother of invention,

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:31.280
<v Speaker 3>and during the seventeenth century a lot of invention happened.

0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:35.360
<v Speaker 3>So all kinds of empirical tools were developed that expanded

0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:39.799
<v Speaker 3>the realm of human observation. The thermometer, the barometer, the

0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:43.080
<v Speaker 3>pendulum clock, the telescope, the microscope. These things were all

0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:47.480
<v Speaker 3>either invented or developed to the point where they were

0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 3>in almost wide use.

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:51.520
<v Speaker 1>That's so cool, it's so cool.

0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:55.520
<v Speaker 3>And these because these tools also they turned these personal

0:35:55.760 --> 0:36:03.080
<v Speaker 3>experiences into impersonal numbers. The subjective in describing natural events decreased,

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.520
<v Speaker 3>but the words that were used to describe these observations

0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:10.960
<v Speaker 3>became more specific and more relatable across cultures and languages.

0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, I never even thought about that aspect of it.

0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:19.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it really did sort of flatten the globe, I guess,

0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:25.160
<v Speaker 3>or in terms of in terms of advancing knowledge and

0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:28.280
<v Speaker 3>saying to be able to say how hot is it?

0:36:28.280 --> 0:36:31.759
<v Speaker 3>It's pretty hot, or it's this many degrees? Although here

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:35.239
<v Speaker 3>I am you know Celsius and Imperial. That's okay, we

0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.719
<v Speaker 3>won't get in. We have calculators now, yeah, exactly, we

0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:45.480
<v Speaker 3>have Google, Google filth. Yeah. This fascination with empiricism extended

0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:48.719
<v Speaker 3>beyond those that were studying mathematics or geography or the

0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:54.000
<v Speaker 3>natural world. This time, so like the mid sixteen hundreds,

0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:56.840
<v Speaker 3>the sixteen hundreds to seventeen hundreds was a time of

0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:02.920
<v Speaker 3>observation of recording. Surveyors would map the land while astronomers

0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:06.960
<v Speaker 3>mapped the sky, and painters use camera obscuras to record

0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:10.600
<v Speaker 3>scenes from life, while natural historians recorded the plants and

0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:15.120
<v Speaker 3>animals around them. In this time, also, the boundary between

0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:19.400
<v Speaker 3>artists and scientists was thin, so some of those that

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:23.160
<v Speaker 3>consider themselves catalogers of the natural world had been trained

0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:26.400
<v Speaker 3>in painting or drawing, because how else could you relay

0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 3>what you were seeing or observing. Right and Dutch artists

0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:35.440
<v Speaker 3>in particular were becoming more detail oriented, with the tendency

0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:37.640
<v Speaker 3>for art during this time to be more about what

0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:41.920
<v Speaker 3>is directly observed, rather than telling a story or idealizing

0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:45.720
<v Speaker 3>a person or place by ignoring or glossing over the flaws.

0:37:47.520 --> 0:37:51.000
<v Speaker 3>This general focus on recording and realism during this time

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:53.760
<v Speaker 3>is I think a really important part of the story

0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:58.080
<v Speaker 3>of microscopy, because for the first few decades of its existence,

0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 3>the microscope was primarily used to demonstrate the wonders of

0:38:01.600 --> 0:38:07.279
<v Speaker 3>the natural world. Look at this super cool grasshopper. Look

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:09.680
<v Speaker 3>at this tiny mite living in your cheese.

0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:11.560
<v Speaker 1>This animal keule, what does he call them?

0:38:11.760 --> 0:38:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Animal cule? Yeah, And while telescopes shortened distance, bringing far

0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:22.920
<v Speaker 3>away things closer to the eye, those things were already

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:26.160
<v Speaker 3>generally known to humans. Just far away. You could see

0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:30.120
<v Speaker 3>that that star, or that planet or that tree was there,

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:33.200
<v Speaker 3>but if you look at it through the telescope, it's closer.

0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:38.320
<v Speaker 3>But microscopes, on the other hand, revealed this whole new world.

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.520
<v Speaker 3>And this, I feel like, would have completely shifted the

0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:45.200
<v Speaker 3>perception of the natural world and what role humans play

0:38:45.239 --> 0:38:48.560
<v Speaker 3>in that. Yeah, it's really hard to imagine.

0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:52.640
<v Speaker 2>It blows my mind, quite honestly.

0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:58.399
<v Speaker 3>It's impossible. It really is unimaginable, Like to wonder at

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:01.319
<v Speaker 3>what that would be like to day, would be like

0:39:01.360 --> 0:39:05.320
<v Speaker 3>discovering that we live in the tear drop of a giant.

0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:06.880
<v Speaker 1>I feel like it.

0:39:07.320 --> 0:39:09.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is not as extreme, but I feel

0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:11.920
<v Speaker 2>like it was how I felt the first time I

0:39:11.960 --> 0:39:16.520
<v Speaker 2>ever went scuba diving. Mmm, I like sitting at the

0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:20.600
<v Speaker 2>bottom of a kelp forest and looking up you realize

0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:24.840
<v Speaker 2>just how like it's an entirely different world. And I

0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:28.120
<v Speaker 2>feel like it's a similar. Look if you have no

0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:32.040
<v Speaker 2>concept that things this small exist and then you look

0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:34.120
<v Speaker 2>in a drop of water and you see this, it's like,

0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>what like it's yeah, yeah, that's the closest I can come.

0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:44.839
<v Speaker 3>I've read before that people who go to space astronauts

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:47.040
<v Speaker 3>and then they look down at the Earth, that their

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 3>perception of world, of life, human of humanity is forever

0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:56.080
<v Speaker 3>changed by that in a way that's yeah, that you

0:39:56.120 --> 0:39:58.439
<v Speaker 3>can't imitate or mimic. And I kind of wonder whether

0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:01.279
<v Speaker 3>that was it was similar to that being some of

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:04.160
<v Speaker 3>the first people to say, oh, like, there's a whole

0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:06.200
<v Speaker 3>new world here and not just being told or seeing

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:06.960
<v Speaker 3>pictures of it.

0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:08.959
<v Speaker 1>I can't stop singing a whole new.

0:40:08.840 --> 0:40:14.000
<v Speaker 2>World every time it, by the way, every single time.

0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:18.960
<v Speaker 3>It's amazing. Yeah, but yeah, these microscopes could could reveal

0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:24.239
<v Speaker 3>the tiny, tiny, little intricacy of a flea's leg, and

0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:28.760
<v Speaker 3>how beautiful it could be to look at a spider's eye. Oh,

0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 3>it's amazing.

0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:30.320
<v Speaker 1>It's incredible.

0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:34.480
<v Speaker 3>Robert Hook was one of the first people to develop

0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:37.920
<v Speaker 3>or to use the microscope in observation, and he had

0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:44.239
<v Speaker 3>this groundbreaking book called Micrographia micro Graphia that displayed the

0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:48.520
<v Speaker 3>exteriors of these tiny creatures or of everyday objects magnified

0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:50.960
<v Speaker 3>to sizes never before seen. And think he had a

0:40:51.000 --> 0:40:52.600
<v Speaker 3>fold out of a flea, for instance.

0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh, yeah, I've seen that. I've seen that. It's incredible.

0:40:55.480 --> 0:40:57.919
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I want to get that coffee table book. Yes,

0:40:57.960 --> 0:41:01.240
<v Speaker 3>I wonder if they make it. But the simple description

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:05.000
<v Speaker 3>of these things soon wasn't seen as enough. Some people

0:41:05.080 --> 0:41:08.960
<v Speaker 3>were like, Okay, these microscopes are incredibly powerful tools that

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:11.239
<v Speaker 3>should be used to explore the inner workings of both

0:41:11.280 --> 0:41:16.360
<v Speaker 3>living and non living things. How do things work? Yeah,

0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:20.280
<v Speaker 3>just to use them only on making pretty drawings seemed

0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.799
<v Speaker 3>like a waste to a lot of people. Okay. So

0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:26.920
<v Speaker 3>Laven Hook would not have been unfamiliar with microscopes or

0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:31.640
<v Speaker 3>at least magnification using lenses, because as a cloth merchant,

0:41:32.000 --> 0:41:35.480
<v Speaker 3>he had to inspect his fabric for thread count, So

0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:39.040
<v Speaker 3>it makes sense that he would have maybe tried experimenting

0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:42.920
<v Speaker 3>with lenses, especially considering the trend that had swept society

0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:47.440
<v Speaker 3>because people were obsessed, fascinated by lenses.

0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh that is so funny.

0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:53.160
<v Speaker 3>They wanted to look at the mites crawling in their bread,

0:41:53.200 --> 0:41:57.520
<v Speaker 3>the fleas and their dogs, anything and everything. By the

0:41:57.560 --> 0:42:01.759
<v Speaker 3>mid sixteen hundreds, you could find lens stores in every marketplace,

0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:05.160
<v Speaker 3>and wearing glasses even if you didn't need them, could

0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:06.239
<v Speaker 3>be considered fashionable.

0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's still fashionable today, isn't it. So nothing has changed.

0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:17.360
<v Speaker 3>Lens crafting varied in technique and quality, and imperfections in

0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:21.719
<v Speaker 3>the glass led many people, including laven Hook, to experiment

0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:25.400
<v Speaker 3>with making lenses of their own. After retiring from the

0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:28.480
<v Speaker 3>cloth trade, laven Hook started to venture into lens crafting,

0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 3>first with bead lenses, which is where you melt the

0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:33.880
<v Speaker 3>end of a glass rod over a flame and then

0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:36.400
<v Speaker 3>you draw out a thread of glass, cutting off the

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:40.520
<v Speaker 3>end when it becomes a bubble. What yep. And so

0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:43.920
<v Speaker 3>from these bead glasses you could make powerful lenses, but

0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:45.520
<v Speaker 3>with very short focal lengths.

0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Huh.

0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:49.200
<v Speaker 3>And because you were using flame to create them, you

0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:51.240
<v Speaker 3>were going to make a lot of duds before getting

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 3>a new one.

0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:56.719
<v Speaker 3>So after bead lenses, laven Hook moved onto grinding and

0:42:56.760 --> 0:43:02.359
<v Speaker 3>blowing glass. His obsession or patients maybe or maybe it

0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:06.360
<v Speaker 3>was both rewarded him and his microscopes ended up being

0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:10.560
<v Speaker 3>some of the best known during this time in his life.

0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:16.120
<v Speaker 3>He made loads of microscopes of varying magnification and construction

0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:21.360
<v Speaker 3>and quality, and estimated five hundred and sixty six total wow,

0:43:21.719 --> 0:43:25.600
<v Speaker 3>of which sadly only nine survive, eight with lenses.

0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:27.719
<v Speaker 2>I thought, I remembered you saying that, like, he's got

0:43:27.719 --> 0:43:30.640
<v Speaker 2>a whole cabinet full of somewhere that just disappeared from Yep.

0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:33.960
<v Speaker 3>It disappeared like he left it to the Royal Society

0:43:34.000 --> 0:43:36.920
<v Speaker 3>after his death and somebody went to look at it

0:43:36.920 --> 0:43:39.880
<v Speaker 3>in the mid eighteen hundreds and then the Royal Society

0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:42.680
<v Speaker 3>was like, uh, we don't know where it is.

0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:44.600
<v Speaker 1>That's the most depressing.

0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:48.560
<v Speaker 3>Anyone who's thrifting or antique hunting in England. I think

0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:51.080
<v Speaker 3>is where the is where the cabinet was last seen.

0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:54.600
<v Speaker 3>Keep an eye, yeah, man, I think a lot of

0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:58.200
<v Speaker 3>the other ones to the glass tubes were melted down,

0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:02.920
<v Speaker 3>not the glass tubes, the gold tubes melted down for gold.

0:44:03.880 --> 0:44:04.080
<v Speaker 4>Ugh.

0:44:04.680 --> 0:44:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. But of those surviving lenses, of the eight ones

0:44:08.960 --> 0:44:14.320
<v Speaker 3>that have lenses, the magnification range from sixty nine times

0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:18.279
<v Speaker 3>to two hundred and sixty six times. What but he

0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:22.480
<v Speaker 3>may have achieved even higher magnification up to five hundred times.

0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:23.919
<v Speaker 1>That's bananas.

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:27.759
<v Speaker 3>He was probably the first person to see bacteria. He

0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:30.000
<v Speaker 3>saw some on peppercorns.

0:44:31.400 --> 0:44:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I had no idea that he Wow.

0:44:34.880 --> 0:44:38.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, two twenty five is a lot already, I know,

0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:40.560
<v Speaker 3>it's amazing.

0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:41.719
<v Speaker 1>That is very cool.

0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:47.080
<v Speaker 3>So Hook had shown the world this beauty and intricacy

0:44:47.120 --> 0:44:50.440
<v Speaker 3>of things that humans already knew to exist, like the

0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:53.520
<v Speaker 3>fold out flea. But Leaven Hook would reveal a whole

0:44:53.560 --> 0:44:56.960
<v Speaker 3>new world, a brand new world. I'm just gonna keep saying,

0:44:57.000 --> 0:45:01.839
<v Speaker 3>whole new world new. There we go that previously had

0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:05.800
<v Speaker 3>been completely unknown. And he started out like Hook observing

0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:08.759
<v Speaker 3>visible things in miniature. But when he stuck some lake

0:45:08.840 --> 0:45:12.239
<v Speaker 3>water under his scope is when he discovered that this

0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:18.680
<v Speaker 3>microscopic teeming life that was present in not just lakewater,

0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:20.360
<v Speaker 3>but rainwater and everything else.

0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:45:21.880 --> 0:45:26.200
<v Speaker 3>It's hard to say whether even Laven Hook realized at

0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:30.520
<v Speaker 3>first the magnitude of his discovery. He published his observations,

0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:33.880
<v Speaker 3>but they were buried around twenty pages in his manuscript

0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:37.520
<v Speaker 3>on other microscopic observations of things like the working of

0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:40.840
<v Speaker 3>the eye, and so his description of this new unseen

0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:44.759
<v Speaker 3>world wasn't met with much acclaim, and he kept sort

0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:48.480
<v Speaker 3>of writing in with new observations, saying, oh, remember when

0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:53.800
<v Speaker 3>I found this, like tons of microscopic life and rainwater.

0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:59.440
<v Speaker 3>They were very small. They were very small. And finally

0:45:59.480 --> 0:46:03.879
<v Speaker 3>he was like, did no one read this? Probably not, No.

0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:06.640
<v Speaker 1>One makes it twenty pages in Anthony.

0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 3>Uh uh, come on man. After his repeated writings, people

0:46:12.120 --> 0:46:14.439
<v Speaker 3>finally did start to take notice of what he had said,

0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:20.200
<v Speaker 3>and they were like, eh, really, come on. It was

0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:24.240
<v Speaker 3>there was a little bit of disbelief happening because Lavean

0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:28.440
<v Speaker 3>Hook was describing a world that was unimaginably small. He

0:46:28.520 --> 0:46:32.840
<v Speaker 3>was describing living creatures ten thousand times smaller than the

0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:37.640
<v Speaker 3>smallest thing perceivable by the naked eye. Jeez, it sounded

0:46:37.760 --> 0:46:41.320
<v Speaker 3>like a fanciful story made up by a very creative

0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:49.040
<v Speaker 3>and bored person and retired du Yeah. The credibility of

0:46:49.040 --> 0:46:52.880
<v Speaker 3>his findings also wasn't helped by his extreme possessiveness of

0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:57.720
<v Speaker 3>his instruments. He was famous for jealously guarding the secrets

0:46:57.719 --> 0:47:00.920
<v Speaker 3>of how he made his powerful microscopes, and this was

0:47:00.960 --> 0:47:03.880
<v Speaker 3>super frustrating to the Royal society, who had no patience

0:47:03.880 --> 0:47:09.160
<v Speaker 3>for people obscuring the methods behind their discoveries acting like magicians.

0:47:10.480 --> 0:47:12.879
<v Speaker 3>And that's I think reasonable, yecause how can you take

0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:17.040
<v Speaker 3>someone at their word who claims that the water you drink,

0:47:17.120 --> 0:47:23.120
<v Speaker 3>the rain that falls contains billions trillions of small animals invisible.

0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:25.160
<v Speaker 2>To the naked eye, right when it sounds absurd and

0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.400
<v Speaker 2>they won't tell you how they made the thing in

0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:30.360
<v Speaker 2>order to look at it, like that's right, yeah, yeah.

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:33.520
<v Speaker 3>And he, you know, he recognized that this was standing

0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:37.680
<v Speaker 3>in the way of the world accepting his immense discovery,

0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.440
<v Speaker 3>but he was too stubborn to do anything about it.

0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:43.080
<v Speaker 3>So what he did was he was like, all right,

0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:46.279
<v Speaker 3>now you all can come here to look through the

0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:49.279
<v Speaker 3>lens for yourselves. And they were like, we're not going

0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:53.200
<v Speaker 3>to do that, man, we're in England. We're not going

0:47:53.280 --> 0:47:55.160
<v Speaker 3>to go all the way to Delft. That's not that far.

0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:59.080
<v Speaker 3>But and then so he was like, okay, fine, stay there,

0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:02.920
<v Speaker 3>don't come here. He got people to write, like to

0:48:03.000 --> 0:48:06.680
<v Speaker 3>sign affidavits saying that they had seen this in his scopes,

0:48:09.280 --> 0:48:12.160
<v Speaker 3>like okay, it's a little bit better, but we're still

0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:15.120
<v Speaker 3>not content. So then the Royal Society was like, all right,

0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:17.600
<v Speaker 3>we just need somebody else to do this. So then

0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:21.560
<v Speaker 3>they pulled Robert Hook away from his workings of circulatory

0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:25.840
<v Speaker 3>systems and respiratory systems because Hook had by now moved

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:30.839
<v Speaker 3>on from microscopy. And they were like, okay, Bob, will

0:48:30.880 --> 0:48:32.680
<v Speaker 3>you try to replicate these findings?

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:35.399
<v Speaker 1>Bob, can you help us out here?

0:48:36.920 --> 0:48:41.359
<v Speaker 3>And Bob did so he did eventually after a little

0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:45.000
<v Speaker 3>bit of trying, find these animal cools that leaven Hook

0:48:45.239 --> 0:48:49.759
<v Speaker 3>had supposedly seen. So that was pretty big step. His

0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:55.800
<v Speaker 3>world was confirmed, and this discovery caused this major shift.

0:48:55.920 --> 0:48:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Once it was confirmed by Hook, this it was reported,

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:04.400
<v Speaker 3>and it causes major shift in human perception because suddenly

0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:09.759
<v Speaker 3>the world both grew and shrank. Some people were comforted

0:49:09.760 --> 0:49:13.120
<v Speaker 3>by it, taking it as evidence of a divinely created world,

0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:19.120
<v Speaker 3>while others took a more nihilistic view. Yeah. For his part,

0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:23.040
<v Speaker 3>laven Hook didn't stop at examining lake water or rain water.

0:49:23.680 --> 0:49:26.200
<v Speaker 3>Once he had gotten a glimpse of those microscopic worlds

0:49:26.239 --> 0:49:30.560
<v Speaker 3>teeming with life, there was no substance off limits. He

0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:36.600
<v Speaker 3>looked at his own blood yours toothplaque pus gunk from

0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:39.600
<v Speaker 3>between his toes after not taking off his stockings for

0:49:39.640 --> 0:49:43.960
<v Speaker 3>two weeks.

0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Pretty gross.

0:49:44.760 --> 0:49:51.360
<v Speaker 3>Made that gross. He also looked at earwax semen, and

0:49:51.520 --> 0:49:56.680
<v Speaker 3>of course his own feces, which is of course where

0:49:56.719 --> 0:50:01.279
<v Speaker 3>he first spotted his sweet little Giaradia. One of the

0:50:01.280 --> 0:50:04.160
<v Speaker 3>things that I think is really fascinating about the development

0:50:04.239 --> 0:50:07.319
<v Speaker 3>of microscopy is how long it seemed to take for

0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:10.920
<v Speaker 3>people to make the connection between the little microscopic animal

0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:15.280
<v Speaker 3>cooles seen in sources of drinking water and diarrheal disease.

0:50:17.360 --> 0:50:20.160
<v Speaker 3>Even Lavenhok was so fond of his little animal cools

0:50:20.160 --> 0:50:22.840
<v Speaker 3>that he would never have accused them of causing the

0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:24.800
<v Speaker 3>diarrhea in which he found Giardia.

0:50:25.239 --> 0:50:26.840
<v Speaker 1>That's very adorable.

0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:28.239
<v Speaker 3>He loved them.

0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:31.400
<v Speaker 1>They really found them in his poop, Yes.

0:50:31.560 --> 0:50:33.600
<v Speaker 3>He loved I mean he loved the ones in rainwater.

0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.400
<v Speaker 3>He loved the ones he missed them when he went away.

0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:38.080
<v Speaker 1>That's very adorable.

0:50:38.520 --> 0:50:44.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, So going into Giardia a little bit now.

0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:48.360
<v Speaker 3>It took almost two hundred years after laven Hook first

0:50:48.400 --> 0:50:52.239
<v Speaker 3>observed Giardia in sixteen eighty one for it to get

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:55.320
<v Speaker 3>an official name, and even then it would be another

0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:58.720
<v Speaker 3>one hundred years or so before it was officially recognized

0:50:58.800 --> 0:51:01.000
<v Speaker 3>as actually causing disease in humans.

0:51:01.239 --> 0:51:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Does that mean we're talking about the nineteen hundreds, yes?

0:51:04.520 --> 0:51:11.120
<v Speaker 3>What Yeah? So in eighteen fifty nine, villain Duson lambole

0:51:11.480 --> 0:51:14.799
<v Speaker 3>I probably said that wrong. Was a Czech scientist and

0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:17.320
<v Speaker 3>he was examining the stool of a child found it

0:51:17.400 --> 0:51:22.120
<v Speaker 3>teaming with Giardia protozoa. He called them circomonas in testinalis,

0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:26.319
<v Speaker 3>but the name eventually was changed to Giardia Lamblia to

0:51:26.440 --> 0:51:31.120
<v Speaker 3>honor Lambele and Alfred Gillard, who also described the parasite.

0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:34.680
<v Speaker 3>So to put the official discovery of Giardia in eighteen

0:51:34.719 --> 0:51:39.360
<v Speaker 3>fifty nine into our history of disease timeline, that happened

0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:42.400
<v Speaker 3>just a few years after the infamous Broad Street cholera

0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:47.680
<v Speaker 3>epidemic in London, and as we remember from that cholera episode,

0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:51.120
<v Speaker 3>the theory of mi asthma was in full swing at

0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:54.959
<v Speaker 3>that time. Of course, over the next few decades people

0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:58.280
<v Speaker 3>would use microscopes to develop the field of germ theory

0:51:58.360 --> 0:52:01.160
<v Speaker 3>linking a parasite or pathogen to the site of infection,

0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:07.720
<v Speaker 3>and microscopes were also used to develop so many other fields,

0:52:07.800 --> 0:52:12.759
<v Speaker 3>both in biology and chemistry, in physics and everything. It's

0:52:12.840 --> 0:52:13.680
<v Speaker 3>they're been amazing.

0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:15.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why.

0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:20.960
<v Speaker 2>I was expecting that since it's a parasite, it somehow

0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:25.400
<v Speaker 2>would have been earlier. But I mean, it's it's still

0:52:25.440 --> 0:52:27.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's still a microscopic. It's still you know,

0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:28.960
<v Speaker 2>it's like malaria.

0:52:29.080 --> 0:52:33.160
<v Speaker 3>It's like, yeah, well it's still microscopic. But even when

0:52:33.200 --> 0:52:37.960
<v Speaker 3>it was recorded and given a name in eighteen fifty nine,

0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:41.920
<v Speaker 3>it was still just seen as an organism, right, not

0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:43.360
<v Speaker 3>necessarily a parasite.

0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:46.160
<v Speaker 1>God, which is so interesting.

0:52:46.080 --> 0:52:48.040
<v Speaker 3>And I think so I yeah, I was thinking about

0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:49.840
<v Speaker 3>this and I'm like, Okay, that seems like one of

0:52:49.880 --> 0:52:54.840
<v Speaker 3>the easiest links to uncover between microbe and disease. Yeah,

0:52:55.440 --> 0:52:57.800
<v Speaker 3>but it didn't seem like it got a lot of focus.

0:52:57.920 --> 0:53:02.239
<v Speaker 3>And maybe that's because it was almost ever present and

0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:07.080
<v Speaker 3>didn't necessarily cause a lot of obvious mortality or epidemics,

0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:09.440
<v Speaker 3>even though it did cause occasional epidemics.

0:53:09.800 --> 0:53:10.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:53:10.040 --> 0:53:12.280
<v Speaker 2>And if you can have just i mean, probably everyone

0:53:12.360 --> 0:53:15.440
<v Speaker 2>was infected with it, so you're testing everyone's poop and

0:53:15.480 --> 0:53:18.200
<v Speaker 2>not everyone is having diarrhea, you're still going to see

0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:21.560
<v Speaker 2>giardia in everyone's poop, So you wouldn't think, Yeah, yeah,

0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:22.160
<v Speaker 2>that makes sense.

0:53:22.440 --> 0:53:24.840
<v Speaker 3>So it's a little bit of a harder Yeah. And

0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:27.640
<v Speaker 3>there were some researchers in the early nineteen hundreds that

0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:31.080
<v Speaker 3>claimed that giardia was a common cause of diarrhea, and

0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:34.120
<v Speaker 3>they had conducted experiments on both humans and animals to

0:53:34.239 --> 0:53:37.600
<v Speaker 3>observe the effects of the infection, and they also had

0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:42.120
<v Speaker 3>recorded their observations of gardioceis and English soldiers in like

0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:46.480
<v Speaker 3>World War One, I think, but interest in the parasite

0:53:46.520 --> 0:53:50.239
<v Speaker 3>seemed to wane throughout the twentieth century. So the WJO

0:53:50.440 --> 0:53:54.960
<v Speaker 3>officially declared it a human pathogen or parasite in nineteen

0:53:55.000 --> 0:53:59.040
<v Speaker 3>eighty one, but it wasn't officially recognized as fulfilling all

0:53:59.080 --> 0:54:03.480
<v Speaker 3>the pastas until nineteen eighty seven, and even after that

0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:07.160
<v Speaker 3>it was still debated whether whether some some cases of

0:54:07.200 --> 0:54:09.200
<v Speaker 3>disease could be attributed to the parasite.

0:54:12.000 --> 0:54:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, are surprised even yeah. Wow.

0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:22.640
<v Speaker 3>And this decline and interest I think was possibly maybe

0:54:22.719 --> 0:54:25.799
<v Speaker 3>due to the massive reduction in waterborne infections throughout the

0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:30.440
<v Speaker 3>developed world as water filtration increased. So I couldn't really

0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:34.720
<v Speaker 3>find any good numbers for global prevalence of giardia throughout history.

0:54:34.800 --> 0:54:37.600
<v Speaker 3>And that's maybe because it was only recently recognized as

0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:41.319
<v Speaker 3>a human parasite, and possibly because it dropped off in

0:54:41.360 --> 0:54:45.400
<v Speaker 3>places that had the highest amounts of research funding. But

0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:48.600
<v Speaker 3>even though I can't give you hard numbers, I can

0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:52.719
<v Speaker 3>make some guesses, which is a statement that the seventeenth

0:54:52.760 --> 0:54:56.960
<v Speaker 3>century Dutch society would have hated. It's very non empirical.

0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:01.760
<v Speaker 3>Giardia has probably infected humans for Lena, as is evidenced

0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:06.040
<v Speaker 3>by its global distribution and prevalence likely increased as humans

0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:10.440
<v Speaker 3>settled and population density increased as water treatment and filtration

0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:13.680
<v Speaker 3>became more widespread. In the first half of the twentieth century,

0:55:14.239 --> 0:55:18.560
<v Speaker 3>cases of intestinal diseases declined in many places, as did

0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:22.800
<v Speaker 3>mortality from water borne diseases. So, for instance, in nineteen hundred,

0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:25.399
<v Speaker 3>if you lived in the US, you had a one

0:55:25.440 --> 0:55:29.240
<v Speaker 3>in twenty chance of dying of a gastrointestinal infection before

0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:30.479
<v Speaker 3>you were seventy years old.

0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:32.640
<v Speaker 1>WHOA, yeah, a lot.

0:55:33.320 --> 0:55:36.120
<v Speaker 3>By nineteen forty that was a one in three thousand,

0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:39.560
<v Speaker 3>three hundred and thirty three chance, and in nineteen ninety

0:55:39.719 --> 0:55:41.080
<v Speaker 3>a one in two million.

0:55:41.160 --> 0:55:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Chants wow.

0:55:43.160 --> 0:55:46.280
<v Speaker 3>But for much of the world, the risk of dying

0:55:46.360 --> 0:55:50.760
<v Speaker 3>of a waterborne disease remains staggeringly high, and giardia remains

0:55:50.800 --> 0:55:53.960
<v Speaker 3>one of the most common infections and causes of morbidity

0:55:54.040 --> 0:55:59.040
<v Speaker 3>out there. So Aarin, tell me exactly what we're dealing

0:55:59.080 --> 0:55:59.680
<v Speaker 3>with in Gardi.

0:55:59.680 --> 0:55:59.960
<v Speaker 2>It's ada.

0:56:01.040 --> 0:56:01.759
<v Speaker 1>I'd love to.

0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:34.120
<v Speaker 2>We'll take one more quick break. It's funny that you

0:56:34.200 --> 0:56:39.360
<v Speaker 2>said you couldn't find good numbers on giardia throughout history,

0:56:40.280 --> 0:56:43.400
<v Speaker 2>because I couldn't find good numbers on girardia today.

0:56:44.080 --> 0:56:44.759
<v Speaker 3>What's the deal?

0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:46.480
<v Speaker 1>End of our episode? Just kidding.

0:56:46.600 --> 0:56:48.800
<v Speaker 3>This is the most slept on parasite out there.

0:56:48.960 --> 0:56:52.080
<v Speaker 2>So this is a disease that is so widespread that

0:56:52.239 --> 0:56:58.040
<v Speaker 2>on the World Health Organization website page about grdiasis, it

0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:06.000
<v Speaker 2>just says distribution colon worldwide. Wow, like legit, that's what

0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:13.600
<v Speaker 2>it says. Somm. According to the CDC, nearly two percent

0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:16.680
<v Speaker 2>of adults and six to eight percent of children in

0:57:16.800 --> 0:57:20.640
<v Speaker 2>developed countries will be infected at some point in their

0:57:20.680 --> 0:57:25.520
<v Speaker 2>lives with giardia, and nearly thirty three percent of people

0:57:25.560 --> 0:57:28.720
<v Speaker 2>living in developing countries will have been infected at some

0:57:28.840 --> 0:57:29.800
<v Speaker 2>point in their lives.

0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:33.400
<v Speaker 3>And we still don't exactly know how it causes disease.

0:57:34.720 --> 0:57:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, apparently it was like thirty years ago that we

0:57:37.400 --> 0:57:40.560
<v Speaker 2>decided we'll call it a human pathogen. So when you

0:57:40.600 --> 0:57:42.080
<v Speaker 2>hear that, it's not that surprising.

0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:45.640
<v Speaker 3>That's yeah, that is that's true. Yeah. Wow.

0:57:45.720 --> 0:57:48.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's by a long shot the most common human

0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:53.880
<v Speaker 2>intestinal parasite diagnosed in the US. I did find a

0:57:53.920 --> 0:57:56.680
<v Speaker 2>few numbers in one of the papers that I read

0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:59.160
<v Speaker 2>reported at least a few numbers, so I'll give those

0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:02.160
<v Speaker 2>to you. Between two thousand and six and two thousand

0:58:02.200 --> 0:58:05.040
<v Speaker 2>and eight, in the US there were at least twenty

0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:10.040
<v Speaker 2>thousand cases reported annually, and the estimated actual number was

0:58:10.120 --> 0:58:15.160
<v Speaker 2>closer to two million. And that's US, okay, And for

0:58:15.280 --> 0:58:20.960
<v Speaker 2>you in Finland, In Finland, Norway and Sweden again in

0:58:21.000 --> 0:58:23.880
<v Speaker 2>like the mid two thousands, they estimated that for every

0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:28.240
<v Speaker 2>single case that was reported, there were likely between two

0:58:28.360 --> 0:58:31.920
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty and eight hundred and fifty actual cases

0:58:32.320 --> 0:58:33.400
<v Speaker 2>that went unreported.

0:58:33.960 --> 0:58:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Yeah.

0:58:35.560 --> 0:58:39.440
<v Speaker 2>And then throughout Europe the numbers really vary, like hundreds,

0:58:39.480 --> 0:58:42.400
<v Speaker 2>two thousands to tens of thousands reported every year. It's

0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:45.240
<v Speaker 2>so we just absolutely do not have a good handle

0:58:45.280 --> 0:58:47.680
<v Speaker 2>on how many people are actually infected at all.

0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:51.400
<v Speaker 3>It's a real tip of the Iceberg situation.

0:58:51.160 --> 0:58:53.720
<v Speaker 2>And here's where it gets even more fun and even

0:58:53.760 --> 0:58:57.600
<v Speaker 2>more tip of such a large iceberg erin this was

0:58:58.080 --> 0:59:03.240
<v Speaker 2>thrilling to get to read. One of the biggest things

0:59:03.480 --> 0:59:06.760
<v Speaker 2>that we absolutely do not have a handle on that

0:59:06.800 --> 0:59:10.880
<v Speaker 2>we're still trying to figure out is in regards to

0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:16.760
<v Speaker 2>how much overlap there is between cycles of this disease.

0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:19.520
<v Speaker 3>Between cycles, Oh, let's.

0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Talk about it.

0:59:20.040 --> 0:59:23.960
<v Speaker 2>So yes, As it turns out, there are several distinct

0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:28.880
<v Speaker 2>cycles in which we can identify that Giardia circulates. There's

0:59:28.920 --> 0:59:32.920
<v Speaker 2>wildlife cycles, so wildlife poop in the wild and infect

0:59:32.960 --> 0:59:37.320
<v Speaker 2>other wildlife. Okay, that's a wildlife cycle of disease. There's

0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:41.280
<v Speaker 2>livestock cycles where live stock on a farm poop on

0:59:41.360 --> 0:59:44.000
<v Speaker 2>that farm and infect all the live stock on that farm.

0:59:44.160 --> 0:59:48.360
<v Speaker 2>That's a livestock cycle. There's domestic animal cycles like dogs

0:59:48.400 --> 0:59:52.200
<v Speaker 2>and cats infecting each other. And then there's human cycles

0:59:52.520 --> 0:59:59.080
<v Speaker 2>where humans poop and infect each other. The question that

0:59:59.120 --> 1:00:04.200
<v Speaker 2>we don't know is how much overlap is there between

1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:09.440
<v Speaker 2>these cycles and what kind of overlap is it. Are

1:00:09.560 --> 1:00:13.760
<v Speaker 2>things being directly transmitted between wildlife and humans. Is it

1:00:13.800 --> 1:00:18.240
<v Speaker 2>all waterborne transmission between wildlife and humans, Is it more

1:00:18.480 --> 1:00:22.240
<v Speaker 2>cycling between livestock and humans, or between humans and livestock.

1:00:22.320 --> 1:00:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Which direction do these spillovers occur?

1:00:27.080 --> 1:00:29.400
<v Speaker 1>And are there distinct.

1:00:28.920 --> 1:00:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Species or subspecies of Giardia being transmitted between these different

1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.960
<v Speaker 2>groups or is it all the same parasite.

1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:41.200
<v Speaker 3>We have no idea, Aaron, but I imagine that there's

1:00:41.480 --> 1:00:48.200
<v Speaker 3>work being done on geographical variants or subspecies or whatever.

1:00:48.840 --> 1:00:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's very very cool work being done on the

1:00:51.360 --> 1:00:53.680
<v Speaker 2>molecular epidemiology of giardia.

1:00:53.840 --> 1:00:54.960
<v Speaker 1>It's very cool.

1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:59.080
<v Speaker 3>A couple of questions real quick, because you mentioned wildlife

1:00:59.080 --> 1:01:02.880
<v Speaker 3>and livestock, What do we know about the prevalence in

1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:05.320
<v Speaker 3>I know that this is a huge question, but like

1:01:05.440 --> 1:01:07.880
<v Speaker 3>in general, is there much known about the prevalence of

1:01:07.960 --> 1:01:11.520
<v Speaker 3>giardia in wildlife or different wildlife species? Everyone calls it

1:01:11.560 --> 1:01:13.840
<v Speaker 3>beaver fever. We can't get through the episode without saying

1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:18.440
<v Speaker 3>beaver fever? Yeah, and so what is the actual prevalence

1:01:18.480 --> 1:01:22.560
<v Speaker 3>in beaver's And then the second question or fifteenth question,

1:01:24.120 --> 1:01:25.120
<v Speaker 3>what about live stock?

1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:29.080
<v Speaker 3>Are pigs more likely than cows? Are chickens more likely

1:01:29.160 --> 1:01:29.800
<v Speaker 3>than goats?

1:01:30.520 --> 1:01:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Where, Aaron, you're asking all the right questions, You're one

1:01:33.960 --> 1:01:35.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent asking all the right questions.

1:01:35.600 --> 1:01:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't have the answers to all of them.

1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Aaron, Livestock are affected at very high rates in general,

1:01:43.960 --> 1:01:46.080
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of times, if you end up with one,

1:01:46.280 --> 1:01:49.800
<v Speaker 2>for example, infected cow on a farm, then you're likely

1:01:49.840 --> 1:01:51.840
<v Speaker 2>to have every single cow infected on that farm.

1:01:52.800 --> 1:01:53.920
<v Speaker 1>So that's livestock.

1:01:53.960 --> 1:01:57.680
<v Speaker 2>It's very very common among livestock. How common it is

1:01:57.720 --> 1:02:00.880
<v Speaker 2>among wildlife totally varies into depends on what type of

1:02:00.880 --> 1:02:04.120
<v Speaker 2>wildlife you're talking about and where they are. I mean,

1:02:04.440 --> 1:02:06.960
<v Speaker 2>because again, this is a disease. This is a parasite

1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:09.720
<v Speaker 2>that's found across the entire globe.

1:02:10.920 --> 1:02:14.920
<v Speaker 3>Are there any species that don't get infected when exposed?

1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:19.640
<v Speaker 1>Good question? Don't know? Okay, yeah, I don't have no idea.

1:02:21.600 --> 1:02:24.640
<v Speaker 2>The other thing is we have no we don't have

1:02:24.720 --> 1:02:30.120
<v Speaker 2>a good grasp on whether it's distinct species or subspecies

1:02:30.160 --> 1:02:34.840
<v Speaker 2>of Girardi, a parasite being transmitted among wildlife and livestock

1:02:35.360 --> 1:02:37.560
<v Speaker 2>and humans. I know, I keep saying it with two arts,

1:02:38.920 --> 1:02:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Just leave it.

1:02:39.560 --> 1:02:41.400
<v Speaker 3>I just keep thinking Girardi above.

1:02:41.480 --> 1:02:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Every time I see your face, I know I've said

1:02:44.280 --> 1:02:44.680
<v Speaker 1>it wrong.

1:02:45.680 --> 1:02:47.600
<v Speaker 3>I'm tried to poker face this, but I can't.

1:02:47.800 --> 1:02:49.320
<v Speaker 1>You're failing at a poker face.

1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:54.520
<v Speaker 2>But there is a lot of molecular epidemiology work being

1:02:54.600 --> 1:02:58.200
<v Speaker 2>done to try and figure this out, because who has

1:02:58.240 --> 1:03:02.280
<v Speaker 2>classified this as a zoonotic pathogen, which means that you

1:03:02.320 --> 1:03:05.480
<v Speaker 2>would expect that most of the transmission happens in a

1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:11.440
<v Speaker 2>zoonotic pathogen between wildlife or other animals and humans. But

1:03:11.560 --> 1:03:14.520
<v Speaker 2>in many cases that doesn't seem to be the case,

1:03:14.600 --> 1:03:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and it might even be more likely that humans are

1:03:18.040 --> 1:03:21.720
<v Speaker 2>actually infecting wildlife at just as high, if not higher

1:03:21.760 --> 1:03:24.640
<v Speaker 2>rates than wildlife end up infecting humans.

1:03:24.960 --> 1:03:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmmmmmm mm hmm.

1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:29.120
<v Speaker 1>It's so cool.

1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:33.000
<v Speaker 2>So while there's no doubt that giardia can be a

1:03:33.080 --> 1:03:37.480
<v Speaker 2>zoonotic disease, we don't know how frequently it's actually zoonotic

1:03:37.600 --> 1:03:41.680
<v Speaker 2>versus just a human disease that circulates among human populations.

1:03:43.120 --> 1:03:46.800
<v Speaker 3>Also, quick question, what's the opposite of zoonotic?

1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Is it anth anthroponotic? Anthroponotic?

1:03:53.800 --> 1:03:58.840
<v Speaker 3>Fact checked me, I'm doing it, thank you anthroponosis, Yeah,

1:03:58.840 --> 1:04:00.560
<v Speaker 3>anthroponoses Yep, there we go.

1:04:00.760 --> 1:04:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Perfect.

1:04:01.800 --> 1:04:05.320
<v Speaker 2>So cool, we don't know fully. I will post a

1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:08.600
<v Speaker 2>link on our website to two very great reviews, one

1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:11.680
<v Speaker 2>from two thousand and four another from twenty eleven that

1:04:11.960 --> 1:04:14.960
<v Speaker 2>dive really deeply into this Don we don't have time

1:04:15.000 --> 1:04:18.600
<v Speaker 2>in this episode to dive into all the different subgroups

1:04:18.600 --> 1:04:21.520
<v Speaker 2>and subspecies and whether there should be multiple species of

1:04:21.760 --> 1:04:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Girardia Giardia duat analyis or not, et cetera, et cetera.

1:04:27.680 --> 1:04:31.120
<v Speaker 2>But what I do want to say is it seems

1:04:31.160 --> 1:04:33.960
<v Speaker 2>as though at this point a lot of the transmission

1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:36.600
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of the outbreaks that we see in

1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:42.360
<v Speaker 2>humans happen between humans human to human transmission. So while

1:04:42.480 --> 1:04:46.000
<v Speaker 2>things like drinking surface groundwater from a mountain stream is

1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:52.200
<v Speaker 2>absolutely a risk factor forgetting grdiasis, it's not like we

1:04:52.280 --> 1:04:55.280
<v Speaker 2>can just blame it on the beavers.

1:04:55.560 --> 1:04:57.200
<v Speaker 1>Don't blame it on the beavers.

1:04:57.880 --> 1:05:01.280
<v Speaker 2>It's equally possible that that the water has been contaminated

1:05:01.320 --> 1:05:04.600
<v Speaker 2>by humans or domestic or livestock animals.

1:05:05.880 --> 1:05:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that just so cool?

1:05:07.680 --> 1:05:08.840
<v Speaker 3>That's very interesting.

1:05:09.080 --> 1:05:11.120
<v Speaker 2>It makes so much more sense to me knowing that

1:05:11.280 --> 1:05:14.840
<v Speaker 2>it's been so recent that people have even been recognizing

1:05:14.840 --> 1:05:17.120
<v Speaker 2>this as a disease, because I was like, how do

1:05:17.160 --> 1:05:21.440
<v Speaker 2>we know so little about the molecular epidemiology and like

1:05:21.480 --> 1:05:24.680
<v Speaker 2>the distribution of this disease among wildlife and livestock and

1:05:24.720 --> 1:05:29.960
<v Speaker 2>what species or subspecies are affecting humans versus wildlife, Like,

1:05:30.240 --> 1:05:33.280
<v Speaker 2>it's bananas to me that we know so little, but

1:05:33.360 --> 1:05:35.680
<v Speaker 2>there's very very cool research being done on it.

1:05:36.280 --> 1:05:36.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:05:36.680 --> 1:05:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Good.

1:05:37.320 --> 1:05:40.360
<v Speaker 2>The other big field of research right now is in vaccines.

1:05:41.280 --> 1:05:45.480
<v Speaker 2>So there does exist already a licensed vaccine for dogs

1:05:45.760 --> 1:05:50.160
<v Speaker 2>and cats, but it's not great. It doesn't work very well.

1:05:50.200 --> 1:05:54.600
<v Speaker 2>As it turns out. It decreases the shedding of cysts

1:05:54.640 --> 1:05:57.520
<v Speaker 2>in the stool of dogs, but it doesn't actually prevent

1:05:57.600 --> 1:06:01.640
<v Speaker 2>infection or reduce symptoms of the disease. So it's kind

1:06:01.680 --> 1:06:04.160
<v Speaker 2>of if you're talking about giving it to your pet dog,

1:06:04.240 --> 1:06:06.360
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem to actually be that helpful.

1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:07.120
<v Speaker 3>Hmm.

1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but that just means that there's room for new research.

1:06:11.200 --> 1:06:14.200
<v Speaker 2>I found a very cool study that was published in

1:06:14.240 --> 1:06:17.960
<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen. It was a massive, massive study. Sometimes I

1:06:18.000 --> 1:06:19.960
<v Speaker 2>look at these and I'm like, good lord, you put

1:06:20.200 --> 1:06:25.880
<v Speaker 2>like six years worth of work into one paper. Whoof Yeah,

1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:27.360
<v Speaker 2>but it was nature, so you know.

1:06:28.200 --> 1:06:29.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:06:30.120 --> 1:06:34.360
<v Speaker 2>So this group developed a vaccine, a component vaccine that

1:06:34.480 --> 1:06:38.520
<v Speaker 2>was actually a vaccine against the human genotypes that are

1:06:38.560 --> 1:06:43.760
<v Speaker 2>more common among humans than dogs and cats. Okay, And

1:06:43.800 --> 1:06:46.560
<v Speaker 2>it was a component vaccine, so just the surface proteins,

1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:49.560
<v Speaker 2>not an entire killed parasite, which is what the vaccine

1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:53.360
<v Speaker 2>that's for dogs is today. So in this paper, they

1:06:53.400 --> 1:06:57.000
<v Speaker 2>showed that this vaccine could both stimulate an immune response

1:06:57.360 --> 1:07:00.880
<v Speaker 2>in puppies and kittens, so actually stimulated their immune system

1:07:00.920 --> 1:07:05.480
<v Speaker 2>to develop antibodies, that this immune response was actually protective

1:07:05.560 --> 1:07:10.280
<v Speaker 2>against infection with Giardia. So they exposed the puppies and

1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:15.480
<v Speaker 2>kittens to gerardia, and then they vaccinated dogs and cats

1:07:15.520 --> 1:07:19.160
<v Speaker 2>in a community and they found that it protected the

1:07:19.200 --> 1:07:21.680
<v Speaker 2>puppies and kittens, the dogs and cats in that community

1:07:21.720 --> 1:07:25.240
<v Speaker 2>from infection. So over time, infection was less in the

1:07:25.280 --> 1:07:27.480
<v Speaker 2>dogs and cats that were vaccinated. In fact, none of

1:07:27.520 --> 1:07:30.640
<v Speaker 2>the dogs and cats that were vaccinated ended up getting infected.

1:07:30.280 --> 1:07:33.080
<v Speaker 1>After two years. WHOA, that's great.

1:07:33.400 --> 1:07:33.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:07:33.760 --> 1:07:37.240
<v Speaker 2>On top of that, they tested children in that community,

1:07:37.480 --> 1:07:40.440
<v Speaker 2>and infection in children in that area decreased over that

1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:44.000
<v Speaker 2>time period as well. So in this paper they were

1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:49.560
<v Speaker 2>suggesting that vaccinating dogs and cats against this specific species

1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:54.280
<v Speaker 2>or subspecies, this specific genotype of Gerardia could actually help

1:07:54.400 --> 1:07:56.680
<v Speaker 2>potentially prevent the spread of disease in humans.

1:07:56.680 --> 1:07:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Even huh.

1:07:58.600 --> 1:08:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Based on a lot of the other molecular epidemiology studies,

1:08:02.200 --> 1:08:05.040
<v Speaker 2>it seems like that's very context dependent because in a

1:08:05.080 --> 1:08:08.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of communities there's actually very little overlap between the

1:08:08.720 --> 1:08:12.200
<v Speaker 2>genotypes of Giardia that circulate among dogs and those that

1:08:12.200 --> 1:08:15.520
<v Speaker 2>circulate among humans. So it would really depend on so

1:08:15.600 --> 1:08:18.320
<v Speaker 2>where they did this study in Argentina that happened to

1:08:18.360 --> 1:08:20.960
<v Speaker 2>be true, but in another community it very well may

1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:25.120
<v Speaker 2>not be. But it's still very cool, huh So, and

1:08:25.160 --> 1:08:26.160
<v Speaker 2>again I'll post.

1:08:25.960 --> 1:08:27.360
<v Speaker 1>The link to that study as well.

1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:34.640
<v Speaker 3>Of course, So about the widespread prevalence of giardia and

1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:40.000
<v Speaker 3>how problematic it is for nutrition and just overall health,

1:08:40.280 --> 1:08:44.439
<v Speaker 3>what are the kind of secondary outcomes associated and like

1:08:44.520 --> 1:08:48.880
<v Speaker 3>in terms of dalis or anything else like that.

1:08:49.000 --> 1:08:49.880
<v Speaker 1>So I couldn't find.

1:08:49.800 --> 1:08:53.400
<v Speaker 2>Numbers on that. A lot of the studies on Gerardia

1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:58.160
<v Speaker 2>that look more at that Giardia becomes more important in cases.

1:08:57.800 --> 1:08:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Of co infection.

1:08:59.560 --> 1:09:02.280
<v Speaker 2>So when you have areas where you have really high

1:09:02.360 --> 1:09:06.000
<v Speaker 2>rates of coinfection with Gerardia and things like hookworm or

1:09:06.040 --> 1:09:09.559
<v Speaker 2>other intestinal worms, that's when you see worse outcomes for

1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:14.240
<v Speaker 2>people in terms of nutrition and malnutrition and things like that.

1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:17.840
<v Speaker 2>But just looking at Gerardia alone, there's not a ton

1:09:17.880 --> 1:09:20.719
<v Speaker 2>of great EPI data that I that I was able

1:09:20.760 --> 1:09:21.320
<v Speaker 2>to find.

1:09:21.640 --> 1:09:22.920
<v Speaker 3>Okay, interesting.

1:09:23.240 --> 1:09:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, so yeah, that's pretty much jarediasis.

1:09:29.760 --> 1:09:32.080
<v Speaker 3>And Lasha how about it?

1:09:32.400 --> 1:09:35.559
<v Speaker 1>How about it? Don't swim in a pool if you

1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:36.600
<v Speaker 1>have diarrhea?

1:09:36.640 --> 1:09:37.000
<v Speaker 3>Please.

1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what I gleaned from all.

1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:45.919
<v Speaker 3>I have one more question for you. Okay, how scared

1:09:46.080 --> 1:09:47.519
<v Speaker 3>should we be of Jaredia?

1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:50.479
<v Speaker 2>I think we should be scared that we know so

1:09:50.640 --> 1:09:51.599
<v Speaker 2>little about it?

1:09:52.160 --> 1:09:54.759
<v Speaker 3>God, Okay, maybe it's other h Pylori.

1:09:55.000 --> 1:09:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it could be.

1:09:56.439 --> 1:09:59.280
<v Speaker 2>It really could be, like who knows what this thing

1:09:59.320 --> 1:10:00.960
<v Speaker 2>has been doing in our guts for so long?

1:10:01.160 --> 1:10:04.480
<v Speaker 3>Clearly causing lactose intolerance and all kinds of people.

1:10:04.320 --> 1:10:10.519
<v Speaker 1>And all kinds of things, ibs et cetera. Cool. That

1:10:10.640 --> 1:10:13.439
<v Speaker 1>was fun sources, fun, okay, sources.

1:10:13.880 --> 1:10:16.639
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna mention a couple of books that I read.

1:10:17.120 --> 1:10:20.400
<v Speaker 3>One is called Drinking Water, a history by James Salzman,

1:10:21.439 --> 1:10:24.760
<v Speaker 3>and the other one is called I of the Beholder

1:10:25.439 --> 1:10:29.200
<v Speaker 3>Johannes vermir Anthony von Lavenhook and the Reinvention of Seeing.

1:10:30.080 --> 1:10:33.200
<v Speaker 3>But that's by Laura Snyder. So if you just google

1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:35.040
<v Speaker 3>Ie of the Beholder, you're going to get a lot

1:10:35.080 --> 1:10:39.360
<v Speaker 3>of like bodice ripping romance novels. You have to put

1:10:39.400 --> 1:10:42.280
<v Speaker 3>in laven Hook or Vermiir. But this book was really

1:10:42.320 --> 1:10:48.160
<v Speaker 3>interesting because it dove into both art history and the

1:10:48.200 --> 1:10:51.960
<v Speaker 3>history of microscopes, and it was just a really sort

1:10:52.000 --> 1:10:54.800
<v Speaker 3>of big picture history book. I really enjoyed it.

1:10:54.880 --> 1:10:58.280
<v Speaker 2>So, Melissa allman, if you're listening, you should read it.

1:10:58.439 --> 1:11:03.240
<v Speaker 3>You'll love this, Melissa. And then I've read some articles

1:11:03.280 --> 1:11:05.200
<v Speaker 3>that I'll post the links to on our website.

1:11:05.800 --> 1:11:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Yep. As always, we'll post the links to all of

1:11:07.960 --> 1:11:10.320
<v Speaker 2>our sources on our website. This podcast will Kill You

1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:12.640
<v Speaker 2>dot com. You can find our sources from this and

1:11:12.840 --> 1:11:14.080
<v Speaker 2>all of our episodes.

1:11:15.160 --> 1:11:18.040
<v Speaker 3>Thank you all for listening. Yeah, I really appreciate it.

1:11:18.240 --> 1:11:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Thank you also to Bloodmobile for the music in this

1:11:20.920 --> 1:11:22.640
<v Speaker 2>episode and all of our episodes.

1:11:22.800 --> 1:11:26.960
<v Speaker 3>And stay tuned because you are going to get a

1:11:27.360 --> 1:11:30.799
<v Speaker 3>wonderful song that if you listen to the Hookworm episode

1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:34.400
<v Speaker 3>you've heard before, Parasite Love Song is gonna play us out.

1:11:35.080 --> 1:11:38.400
<v Speaker 3>It's the best. Thank you so much to Merrimac Valley

1:11:38.479 --> 1:11:41.439
<v Speaker 3>Girl for letting us play it again. And you can

1:11:41.479 --> 1:11:46.240
<v Speaker 3>find her website at Merrimackvalleygirl dot com and she also

1:11:46.320 --> 1:11:52.280
<v Speaker 3>has an Instagram m E r amec Valley Girl. All Right,

1:11:52.960 --> 1:11:56.720
<v Speaker 3>until next time, Wash your hands, you filthy animals.

1:12:03.960 --> 1:12:08.639
<v Speaker 4>I cannot live without you, naughty, even for a day.

1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:13.920
<v Speaker 4>Please don't try to push me out. Please just let

1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:19.639
<v Speaker 4>me stay. It's a miracle I've found you. Introductions were

1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:25.920
<v Speaker 4>not forced. They'd brought us together. Let nature take her course.

1:12:31.200 --> 1:12:35.679
<v Speaker 4>You tried to avoid me, but my instincts were too good.

1:12:36.400 --> 1:12:41.000
<v Speaker 4>Your defense is now arising, but I knew that they would.

1:12:42.000 --> 1:12:44.120
<v Speaker 4>I never want to hurt you.

1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:46.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to make you.

1:12:46.320 --> 1:12:49.720
<v Speaker 4>Please do you understand me?

1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Do you know that I have needs?

1:12:56.840 --> 1:13:01.120
<v Speaker 4>Have you ever felt so wanted? I may be a fluke,

1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:05.760
<v Speaker 4>our support may not be mutual, but please do not

1:13:05.920 --> 1:13:12.000
<v Speaker 4>rebuke your giver. I'm a taker, but relations can evolve.

1:13:13.200 --> 1:13:17.559
<v Speaker 4>I'll adapt to stay with you. Our problems can be solved.

1:13:22.120 --> 1:13:25.640
<v Speaker 4>Oh what do I love about you? You're such a

1:13:25.760 --> 1:13:31.520
<v Speaker 4>lovely host, your beautiful and rich inside where.

1:13:31.240 --> 1:13:32.519
<v Speaker 1>It counts the most.

1:13:33.360 --> 1:13:35.800
<v Speaker 4>I promise I won't cheat on you.

1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Please just let me stay.

1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:47.479
<v Speaker 4>I cannot live without you, not even for a day.

1:14:00.080 --> 1:14:01.719
<v Speaker 3>I want you out your magne sick.

1:14:02.600 --> 1:14:05.680
<v Speaker 4>I want you out your magne sick. I want you

1:14:05.720 --> 1:14:09.800
<v Speaker 4>out your magnie sick. You're lousy and your magnie sick.

1:14:14.680 --> 1:14:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Also I just want to say you are my mother

1:14:17.840 --> 1:14:22.720
<v Speaker 2>because you managed to fit in art history and microscope

1:14:22.840 --> 1:14:24.920
<v Speaker 2>history in like the same sentence.

1:14:27.080 --> 1:14:30.080
<v Speaker 3>Listen, I read a great book. I'll shout it out

1:14:30.040 --> 1:14:33.880
<v Speaker 3>at the end. Okay, I'll say, Melissa, you should listen

1:14:33.920 --> 1:14:35.960
<v Speaker 3>to this, or you should read this.

1:14:36.800 --> 1:14:39.200
<v Speaker 2>She'll be like Aaron, I've already read it, just kidding.

1:14:40.280 --> 1:14:42.599
<v Speaker 3>Probs, we're friends on Goodreads, so maybe she's already seen

1:14:42.600 --> 1:14:44.559
<v Speaker 3>that I've read it, and then she'll add it to her

1:14:44.640 --> 1:14:45.360
<v Speaker 3>good Reads.

1:14:45.880 --> 1:14:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I love it.