1 00:00:02,060 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm back with a neat and rollicking look at 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: some sci-fi theories, in the truest sense of the word sci-fi, 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,100 Speaker 1: about what lines of progress any intelligent civilization should follow. 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,420 Speaker 1: And this concept leads, pretty much inevitably, to things like 5 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: building space probes and harnessing the energy of stars, all 6 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:23,650 Speaker 1: of which should leave some telltale trace of a civilization 7 00:00:24,110 --> 00:00:27,550 Speaker 1: already far more advanced than ours. What happens after that 8 00:00:27,630 --> 00:00:40,750 Speaker 1: is another story. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, 9 00:00:42,950 --> 00:00:45,390 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's 10 00:00:45,430 --> 00:00:49,750 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's over there with their foot 11 00:00:49,790 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: on the button, and that means this is Stuff You 12 00:00:52,820 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: Should Know, the podcast. 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:55,940 Speaker 2: The foot on the button. 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:58,660 Speaker 1: Just waiting to cut us off. 15 00:00:59,410 --> 00:01:01,690 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what no one knows, but Jerry has a 16 00:01:01,770 --> 00:01:06,630 Speaker 2: kill switch at her foot for all of our profane tirades. 17 00:01:07,190 --> 00:01:09,370 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would kill us if she ever pressed it. 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:10,020 Speaker 2: That's right. 19 00:01:10,030 --> 00:01:11,580 Speaker 1: That's why they call it that. 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,220 Speaker 2: But she's not very good at it, I've noticed. 21 00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: I've noticed, too. Some stuff slips by. 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,620 Speaker 2: Yeah, I told her she's like Keith Richards of podcast 23 00:01:19,660 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: producers because he can't use guitar pedals. 24 00:01:23,260 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: So he's known for that? Is that a thing? 25 00:01:25,340 --> 00:01:27,710 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't know. how known he is 26 00:01:27,770 --> 00:01:31,290 Speaker 2: maybe among guitar players, but he, uh, he just plugs 27 00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:33,550 Speaker 2: right into the amp. That's pretty great. 28 00:01:33,990 --> 00:01:34,569 Speaker 1: Oh, I see. 29 00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:37,660 Speaker 2: And his, he was on, uh, uh, Mark Marin's podcast. 30 00:01:37,670 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: It was a great interview. And Marin, he, you know, 31 00:01:40,340 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: it's pure Keith Richards. And he was just basically like, 32 00:01:42,940 --> 00:01:45,300 Speaker 2: you know, I have a hard time standing upright. Like 33 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,620 Speaker 2: I can't mess with trying to press foot pedals. 34 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:50,390 Speaker 1: That's Keith, man. 35 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:57,140 Speaker 2: Yep. Very pure. Yeah. And by pure, I mean, Pure heroin. Yeah. 36 00:01:58,380 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: Pure China. 37 00:01:59,300 --> 00:02:00,500 Speaker 2: No, he's clean now, but. 38 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: Is he really? That's astounding. 39 00:02:02,970 --> 00:02:06,050 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, no, I mean, he doesn't do like 40 00:02:06,430 --> 00:02:07,290 Speaker 2: hard drugs anymore. 41 00:02:08,090 --> 00:02:08,690 Speaker 1: I gotcha. 42 00:02:08,750 --> 00:02:10,049 Speaker 2: I think he drinks and smokes weed. 43 00:02:10,690 --> 00:02:13,010 Speaker 1: I gotcha. But it's clean-ish. 44 00:02:13,230 --> 00:02:13,910 Speaker 2: Come on. Yeah. 45 00:02:14,010 --> 00:02:15,150 Speaker 1: He still smokes too. That's like pristine. 46 00:02:15,830 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 2: Actually, Marin smoked his first cigarette in a decade in 47 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: that show with him. 48 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: Oh, that was smart. That was a good decision. 49 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:24,500 Speaker 2: He was like, I have to. How can I not? 50 00:02:25,630 --> 00:02:29,370 Speaker 1: Yeah, he easily could not have done that. I'm disappointed. 51 00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:30,830 Speaker 1: Did he really? Yeah. 52 00:02:31,150 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 2: Keith Richards offered him a smoke, and he's like, sure. 53 00:02:33,660 --> 00:02:35,740 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I see that, but at the same time, 54 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: I also see not smoking. 55 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: Listen to you. 56 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: I know. I'm being judgy. 57 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: Wagging your finger. 58 00:02:43,490 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: So, Chuck. 59 00:02:44,530 --> 00:02:44,790 Speaker 2: Yes. 60 00:02:45,910 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: Have you ever used energy? Yes. 61 00:02:49,330 --> 00:02:49,570 Speaker 2: Yes. 62 00:02:51,210 --> 00:02:54,850 Speaker 1: Well, you know, when you're using energy, most likely you're 63 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,010 Speaker 1: using something like a fossil fuel, right? 64 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, right. 65 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,260 Speaker 1: Like gasoline or natural gas or something like that. Stuff 66 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 1: that comes from decomposing dinosaurs. 67 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: Yes. 68 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: Okay. The problem with using decomposing dinosaurs, as most people know, 69 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: is that it's essentially a non-renewable resource. There's no more 70 00:03:12,940 --> 00:03:15,460 Speaker 1: dinosaurs to decompose any longer. And even if there were, 71 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,130 Speaker 1: it would take... Tens of millions of years for them 72 00:03:19,150 --> 00:03:21,810 Speaker 1: to decompose into fossil fuels for us, right? 73 00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:27,589 Speaker 2: Right. Even if we had dino DNA and we could 74 00:03:27,630 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: make new dinosaurs just to kill them and watch them decompose. 75 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 1: Which is something we would do if we had the capability, 76 00:03:34,180 --> 00:03:34,860 Speaker 1: I guarantee it. 77 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: Oh, sure. 78 00:03:35,700 --> 00:03:38,779 Speaker 1: Right? But we don't have that capability. And as far 79 00:03:38,820 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: as I know, no one's working on that track right now. 80 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: I don't think. 81 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,980 Speaker 2: Just Steven Spielberg. 82 00:03:45,860 --> 00:03:52,820 Speaker 1: Right. Maybe someone at Rutgers. So we have to come 83 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: up with energy sources that we won't eventually run out of. 84 00:03:56,490 --> 00:03:59,450 Speaker 1: And obviously there's like wind and solar. And as far 85 00:03:59,490 --> 00:04:02,070 Speaker 1: as solar power goes, from what I understand, we're actually 86 00:04:02,110 --> 00:04:04,190 Speaker 1: doing pretty well right now. Like right now we use 87 00:04:04,210 --> 00:04:09,730 Speaker 1: something like 0.01% of the sunlight that reaches Earth to 88 00:04:10,010 --> 00:04:13,910 Speaker 1: power our world. So there's a lot of room for 89 00:04:13,950 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: growth potential. 90 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: Sure. 91 00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:18,350 Speaker 1: The thing is, is I also saw that if we 92 00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:22,779 Speaker 1: keep growing and our energy consumption keeps growing at something 93 00:04:22,820 --> 00:04:26,220 Speaker 1: like 1% a year, within a thousand years, we'll be 94 00:04:26,380 --> 00:04:30,350 Speaker 1: using more than the entire amount of sunlight that hits 95 00:04:30,430 --> 00:04:34,210 Speaker 1: the earth can provide. So we really need to come 96 00:04:34,250 --> 00:04:35,130 Speaker 1: up with something else. 97 00:04:35,570 --> 00:04:35,810 Speaker 2: Yes. 98 00:04:36,350 --> 00:04:39,770 Speaker 1: The problem is, is even if we harnessed all of 99 00:04:39,810 --> 00:04:43,810 Speaker 1: the energy here on earth, we would very quickly outgrow 100 00:04:44,070 --> 00:04:47,469 Speaker 1: whatever energy it provided. So some people have said, well, 101 00:04:47,510 --> 00:04:49,050 Speaker 1: why don't we just go straight to the source? If 102 00:04:49,130 --> 00:04:51,570 Speaker 1: the sun is such a great source of energy, but 103 00:04:51,650 --> 00:04:55,510 Speaker 1: it's shooting that energy out in directions other than the earth, 104 00:04:56,650 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: the stuff that is starting toward the earth doesn't make 105 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,340 Speaker 1: it very frequently. Let's just go to the sun and 106 00:05:03,460 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: basically strangle the life out of it to get energy 107 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: from it. 108 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,339 Speaker 2: Right. Great idea. 109 00:05:08,740 --> 00:05:12,670 Speaker 1: And one of the first examples, proposals of it i 110 00:05:12,690 --> 00:05:15,220 Speaker 1: don't want to say a serious proposal because although it's 111 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,859 Speaker 1: been taken seriously over the years and almost been interpreted 112 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,850 Speaker 1: like scripture um it was a thought experiment to begin 113 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,529 Speaker 1: with it's something called a dyson sphere. 114 00:05:27,650 --> 00:05:31,510 Speaker 2: Yes um well i guess we should introduce the man 115 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:32,490 Speaker 2: not that we have him. 116 00:05:32,450 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 3: Here that'd be awesome he's he's still around yeah i 117 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 3: know he's an old dude But we're talking about Freeman Dyson, 118 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:46,850 Speaker 3: not the maker of the vacuum cleaner or the bladeless fan. 119 00:05:48,050 --> 00:05:49,430 Speaker 1: Or the bladeless hair dryer. 120 00:05:50,930 --> 00:05:51,610 Speaker 2: Is that really a thing? 121 00:05:51,630 --> 00:05:52,150 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 122 00:05:52,970 --> 00:05:55,930 Speaker 2: They have a Dyson hair dryer? Yeah. You know, I 123 00:05:56,490 --> 00:05:59,050 Speaker 2: was so disappointed when I found out what the bladeless 124 00:05:59,089 --> 00:05:59,590 Speaker 2: fan was. 125 00:06:01,490 --> 00:06:01,690 Speaker 1: Why? 126 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 2: Have you seen those? 127 00:06:02,750 --> 00:06:04,830 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can stick your hand through it. It's amazing. 128 00:06:04,870 --> 00:06:07,210 Speaker 2: Well, I know, and I was like, is it magic? Like, 129 00:06:07,250 --> 00:06:10,190 Speaker 2: how in the world is it doing this? But it's 130 00:06:10,230 --> 00:06:13,210 Speaker 2: got a stupid blade. It's just housed in a casing. 131 00:06:14,010 --> 00:06:15,589 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a terrible name for it. 132 00:06:15,589 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: And then it just channels it up and, you know, 133 00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:19,180 Speaker 2: squirts it out the front. 134 00:06:20,460 --> 00:06:24,460 Speaker 1: The Dyson invention that always got me was the Airblade 135 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: hand dryer. I think we've talked about this before, where 136 00:06:27,580 --> 00:06:28,979 Speaker 1: you stick your hand down in there. 137 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:29,580 Speaker 2: I love those. 138 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're so... Filled with germs that actually I 139 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: was in a bathroom the other day and they have 140 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,890 Speaker 1: an air blade now that just blows downward onto your hands. 141 00:06:40,529 --> 00:06:42,950 Speaker 1: And it's actually I'm like, OK, now I'm satisfied with 142 00:06:42,990 --> 00:06:43,550 Speaker 1: this invention. 143 00:06:43,970 --> 00:06:45,630 Speaker 2: Well, you know, you're not supposed to rub your hand 144 00:06:45,770 --> 00:06:46,810 Speaker 2: on the air blade itself. 145 00:06:47,070 --> 00:06:49,410 Speaker 1: No, but it's so close. It's like you're playing operation. 146 00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:51,330 Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to remove a funny bone or something 147 00:06:51,350 --> 00:06:53,989 Speaker 1: like that. It's almost impossible not to hit the sides 148 00:06:54,050 --> 00:06:54,490 Speaker 1: of the thing. 149 00:06:54,529 --> 00:06:56,500 Speaker 2: You know, your big meat hooks are just rubbing all 150 00:06:56,540 --> 00:06:58,900 Speaker 2: over everything. That's gross. 151 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is gross. Believe me. Cause I walk out 152 00:07:01,339 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: just crying with my hands held in the air every 153 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:04,740 Speaker 1: time I go to the bathroom. 154 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,779 Speaker 2: Well, you and I have a very big thing about 155 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,620 Speaker 2: airport bathrooms. Um, and I think I had the worst 156 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,610 Speaker 2: one of my life at, uh, Boston Logan on our 157 00:07:14,650 --> 00:07:15,810 Speaker 2: last tour. Oh yeah. 158 00:07:15,850 --> 00:07:16,330 Speaker 1: What happened? 159 00:07:16,830 --> 00:07:20,860 Speaker 2: It was just not up to snuff. Like the, first 160 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,020 Speaker 2: of all, the door, and this might've been just this 161 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: one bathroom, but the doors to the stalls, none of 162 00:07:26,500 --> 00:07:27,940 Speaker 2: them secured. 163 00:07:28,780 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: They've been ripped clean off. 164 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,250 Speaker 2: Well, they were there, but you couldn't, you know, the 165 00:07:32,260 --> 00:07:34,190 Speaker 2: locks didn't work. It was just, I basically had to 166 00:07:34,230 --> 00:07:36,050 Speaker 2: push my hand against it, which grossed me out. 167 00:07:36,130 --> 00:07:37,310 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's not okay. 168 00:07:37,790 --> 00:07:40,210 Speaker 2: And then the gap when the door was shut was like, 169 00:07:41,370 --> 00:07:43,570 Speaker 2: two or three inches big. Like, you could fully just 170 00:07:43,610 --> 00:07:46,630 Speaker 2: look in and say, how you doing? How's your poop? Yeah. 171 00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:49,310 Speaker 1: That's the Mr. Peeper's model stall. 172 00:07:49,330 --> 00:07:52,300 Speaker 2: Well, it's just not acceptable, you know, in this day 173 00:07:52,340 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: and age to not have complete privacy in there. 174 00:07:55,980 --> 00:07:58,820 Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with you. Again, I'm going to reiterate, 175 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: I think there should be one stall for an entire 176 00:08:01,580 --> 00:08:03,740 Speaker 1: bathroom so that no one could possibly sit down next 177 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:04,900 Speaker 1: to you. But barring that. 178 00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: One stall to rule them all? 179 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:11,190 Speaker 1: Exactly. But barring that, though, like, The place, like, what 180 00:08:11,230 --> 00:08:13,850 Speaker 1: we have in our office is acceptable. It's a good 181 00:08:13,990 --> 00:08:14,730 Speaker 1: second place. 182 00:08:14,750 --> 00:08:15,150 Speaker 2: Oh, it's great. 183 00:08:15,590 --> 00:08:17,830 Speaker 1: There's, like, a complete wall in between you. There's a 184 00:08:17,870 --> 00:08:20,930 Speaker 1: complete wall in front of you and a door that's 185 00:08:20,990 --> 00:08:21,710 Speaker 1: securely shut. 186 00:08:21,740 --> 00:08:22,740 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a water closet. 187 00:08:23,820 --> 00:08:25,540 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess it is. 188 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: Like, you're fully enclosed. 189 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,820 Speaker 1: There's a lot of water flowing there. 190 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: Oh, man. I knew we were going to get distracted 191 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: by poop. 192 00:08:32,290 --> 00:08:34,170 Speaker 1: Yeah, this isn't even the port-a-potty episode. 193 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: I know. All right. So, sorry. Back to Freeman Dyson. 194 00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:42,780 Speaker 2: Not the vacuum maker. He was born in England. He 195 00:08:42,940 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: worked most of his career. He's retired now, but worked 196 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,820 Speaker 2: most of his career as a physics professor at the 197 00:08:48,940 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton University. Not Rutgers. He 198 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,620 Speaker 2: was a civilian scientist with the RAF in World War II. Cool. 199 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: Went to Cambridge, then Cornell for grad school. 200 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: This guy's got some bona fides. 201 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,050 Speaker 2: And then he's been in the news recently by being 202 00:09:10,090 --> 00:09:13,330 Speaker 2: a big, I mean, brilliant, brilliant man. But he's been 203 00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:15,610 Speaker 2: in the news recently by being one of the more 204 00:09:15,650 --> 00:09:20,209 Speaker 2: prominent scientists as a climate change skeptic. 205 00:09:21,290 --> 00:09:21,950 Speaker 1: Oh, is that right? 206 00:09:22,330 --> 00:09:25,340 Speaker 2: Yeah, and not like a complete skeptic. Like he does 207 00:09:25,410 --> 00:09:28,780 Speaker 2: believe that it's, I believe what his stance is that 208 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: he does believe that it's man-made. But he doesn't think 209 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: we have enough detail about all the variables for these 210 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,900 Speaker 2: computer-generated models to be accurate. 211 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: I see. 212 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:43,380 Speaker 2: So he's basically saying, like, this is not the end 213 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:46,170 Speaker 2: of the world. And, in fact, he thinks that increasing 214 00:09:46,210 --> 00:09:49,190 Speaker 2: levels of CO2 can be a good thing for humanity ultimately. 215 00:09:49,610 --> 00:09:50,030 Speaker 1: How so? 216 00:09:50,290 --> 00:09:51,690 Speaker 2: I don't know. I didn't get that far. 217 00:09:53,130 --> 00:09:55,610 Speaker 1: He's like, it gives you a pretty good buzz. 218 00:09:55,710 --> 00:09:58,150 Speaker 2: Maybe. I don't know. It's pretty interesting, though. He's like, 219 00:09:58,750 --> 00:10:01,950 Speaker 2: I think, starting about... you know, six to 10 years ago, 220 00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:07,230 Speaker 2: really started making the news with his somewhat controversial. Cause 221 00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:09,589 Speaker 2: he's a brilliant man. And all these other scientists are like, wow, 222 00:10:09,630 --> 00:10:11,429 Speaker 2: he's such a smart guy, but he's so wrong on this. 223 00:10:11,950 --> 00:10:12,170 Speaker 1: Yeah. 224 00:10:12,370 --> 00:10:14,340 Speaker 2: But then other people are like, no, he's totally right. 225 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:16,180 Speaker 1: That's pretty interesting. 226 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: Anyway. Um, so that's who he is. And he, in 1937, well, 227 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: not in 1937, he, in the 1960s was reading a 228 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,900 Speaker 2: book from 1937 called star maker from, uh, science fiction author, 229 00:10:30,020 --> 00:10:33,540 Speaker 2: Olaf Stapledon. And, uh, he saw this thing called a 230 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,660 Speaker 2: light trap from this book. Uh, and this book also 231 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: had predicted things like virtual reality. And it's kind of a, 232 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: pretty much a landmark sci-fi science book. And, um, He said, hey, 233 00:10:47,179 --> 00:10:49,220 Speaker 2: this light trap sounds like a good idea. I'm going 234 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:49,740 Speaker 2: to rip it off. 235 00:10:51,179 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, he did. And he actually, it was, I think, 236 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: a paper that was published in Science in the journal 237 00:10:56,179 --> 00:10:59,420 Speaker 1: Science in 1960. And it's really short. Did you read it? 238 00:10:59,970 --> 00:11:00,140 Speaker 2: Yeah. 239 00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:02,550 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, I think it took up two pages 240 00:11:02,650 --> 00:11:06,330 Speaker 1: in Science out of like a thousand or something like 241 00:11:06,370 --> 00:11:11,429 Speaker 1: that in that volume. But he basically said, this would 242 00:11:11,470 --> 00:11:14,110 Speaker 1: be a great thing, as you say, to rip off. 243 00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: for a thought experiment I'm working on, right? Because just 244 00:11:17,340 --> 00:11:20,700 Speaker 1: very recently, something called Project Ozma had been created. And 245 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: that was, they started to search the sky for extraterrestrial intelligence. 246 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:27,699 Speaker 1: It was the first SETI. And they were looking for 247 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: radio signals. Still are. But Dyson was saying, well, hold 248 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: on a second. If you're going to start looking for 249 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,710 Speaker 1: extraterrestrial beings, like signs of intelligent civilizations, you should maybe 250 00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:40,270 Speaker 1: start looking for these. And they came to be called 251 00:11:40,350 --> 00:11:44,050 Speaker 1: Dyson Spheres, because... He was the first one to popularize it, 252 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:45,939 Speaker 1: even though he got the idea from Olaf. 253 00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:50,380 Speaker 2: Yeah, he actually said he thought a stapled sphere was 254 00:11:50,420 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: a better name, but I guess not good enough to 255 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:53,830 Speaker 2: actually use it. 256 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:54,780 Speaker 1: Right, right. 257 00:11:55,380 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 258 00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:56,599 Speaker 1: He said it once. 259 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,900 Speaker 2: Right, very quietly. 260 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:04,020 Speaker 1: Yeah. But so this Dyson sphere, it was originally created as, again, 261 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,219 Speaker 1: a thought experiment. He didn't talk about how to construct 262 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: it necessarily or anything like that, although there were some follow-up. 263 00:12:12,530 --> 00:12:17,790 Speaker 1: correspondence um after the letter first came out but almost 264 00:12:17,860 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: immediately people started thinking about how you would create one 265 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: of these things this this dyson sphere and the whole 266 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: point we should say basically at its at its basis 267 00:12:29,620 --> 00:12:34,380 Speaker 1: a dyson sphere is um an engineering project a megastructure 268 00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: that initially was thought to be basically a hollow sphere 269 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,490 Speaker 1: that you built around a star For example, we would 270 00:12:43,510 --> 00:12:44,670 Speaker 1: build it around our sun. 271 00:12:44,950 --> 00:12:45,170 Speaker 2: Right. 272 00:12:45,630 --> 00:12:47,710 Speaker 1: And the whole point of this thing is on the 273 00:12:47,790 --> 00:12:52,329 Speaker 1: inside of the sphere are solar arrays so that all 274 00:12:52,350 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: of that sunlight, like we were talking about earlier, that 275 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: gets wasted as far as we're concerned, is captured and 276 00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:05,900 Speaker 1: converted into usable energy for us. And Freeman Dyson's point 277 00:13:05,980 --> 00:13:09,209 Speaker 1: was if you build one of these things, you're going 278 00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:14,860 Speaker 1: to capture light. Light won't get out. But infrared radiation, heat, 279 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,060 Speaker 1: thermal heat will escape. And so if you're looking around 280 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:20,579 Speaker 1: the skies for aliens, look for something that has a 281 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of like the infrared radiation of a star, 282 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,180 Speaker 1: but isn't putting any light out. And maybe you just 283 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: found an alien civilization. That's how it began. But people 284 00:13:29,220 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: started trying to figure out how to make one of 285 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,140 Speaker 1: these things almost as soon as he published that letter. 286 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 2: So the one thing I don't get was he saying 287 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,340 Speaker 2: that look for this because other civilizations out there are 288 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:41,740 Speaker 2: using the Dyson sphere. 289 00:13:42,740 --> 00:13:45,750 Speaker 1: He said that it would be likely that this would 290 00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:47,230 Speaker 1: be an invention they came up with. 291 00:13:47,250 --> 00:13:51,770 Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha. Yeah. All right, well, let's go. Should we 292 00:13:51,809 --> 00:13:56,290 Speaker 2: go to this Nikolai Kardashev real quick? 293 00:13:56,330 --> 00:13:57,750 Speaker 1: I think we should. I think we can't put it 294 00:13:57,809 --> 00:13:58,450 Speaker 1: off any longer. 295 00:13:58,570 --> 00:14:02,050 Speaker 2: It's pretty interesting. In the 1960s, there was an astrophysicist 296 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: named Nikolai Kardashev, and he was a Bond villain. Actually, 297 00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 2: he wasn't, but he should have been. He had this 298 00:14:12,020 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 2: idea that there were three classifications of civilization. Type one, 299 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: which is basically we have learned how to harness all 300 00:14:21,060 --> 00:14:25,300 Speaker 2: the energy on the home planet. Like everything you can 301 00:14:25,340 --> 00:14:30,210 Speaker 2: possibly harness here on Earth. And you would think, well, 302 00:14:30,250 --> 00:14:34,150 Speaker 2: that's probably us. We're not quite there yet. Really smart 303 00:14:34,190 --> 00:14:37,890 Speaker 2: dude named Michio Kaku, not a Bond villain either. He 304 00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:41,410 Speaker 2: said in the next hundred years or so, maybe 200 years, 305 00:14:41,850 --> 00:14:44,890 Speaker 2: we might actually be a type one civilization. Yeah. 306 00:14:45,170 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: And like you said, that's where every bit of geothermal energy, 307 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:55,420 Speaker 1: every drop of sunlight, every, um, um, every bit of 308 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: hydroelectric power, all of that stuff, every potential bit of 309 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:00,540 Speaker 1: energy is being harnessed by us. 310 00:15:00,740 --> 00:15:01,140 Speaker 2: That's right. 311 00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:04,510 Speaker 1: Yeah. We're nowhere near that right now. I think Kaku's 312 00:15:04,570 --> 00:15:09,150 Speaker 1: assessment's a little rosy. Oh, well, And I can say 313 00:15:09,190 --> 00:15:11,030 Speaker 1: that because he was on our TV show. 314 00:15:11,630 --> 00:15:13,270 Speaker 2: Sort of. Well, he was. 315 00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:15,190 Speaker 1: Yes, he appeared on. 316 00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:15,790 Speaker 2: But we didn't. 317 00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:18,070 Speaker 1: He didn't interact with us in any real way. Exactly. 318 00:15:18,430 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: He has no idea who we are. 319 00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:23,410 Speaker 2: No, none. So type two is the next, of course. 320 00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:27,290 Speaker 2: And that kind of civilization would understand how to harness 321 00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:30,630 Speaker 2: all of the energy, not only on your own home planet, 322 00:15:31,140 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: but the energy of a star in its own solar system. 323 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: Right. That's where the Dyson sphere comes in. Yeah. 324 00:15:38,890 --> 00:15:42,290 Speaker 2: You know, that's what we aspire to do one day. Right. 325 00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:46,330 Speaker 1: Maybe a million or so years from now. And then 326 00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:50,660 Speaker 1: type three is just kind of like following this logical progression. 327 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,460 Speaker 2: Right. And that's harnessing all the energy of all the 328 00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:58,780 Speaker 2: galaxies or of entire galaxies, not necessarily all of them. 329 00:15:59,260 --> 00:16:04,310 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that the second, the second stage, the 330 00:16:04,350 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: type two civilization would be, um, the, either the hardest 331 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: to get to or take the longest to get to. Right. 332 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: And that's because when you build that first Dyson sphere, 333 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: your technology and your energy efficiency and your productivity is 334 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,790 Speaker 1: going to just shoot forward exponentially from that point on. 335 00:16:25,950 --> 00:16:26,790 Speaker 2: Oh, yes. 336 00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:29,450 Speaker 1: So once you build that first one, you can start 337 00:16:29,490 --> 00:16:31,850 Speaker 1: building more and more and more, much more quickly. So 338 00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:35,010 Speaker 1: you jump from a type two to a type three 339 00:16:35,070 --> 00:16:39,070 Speaker 1: civilization pretty, pretty fast. compared to how long it took 340 00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:41,330 Speaker 1: you to go from a Type I to a Type 341 00:16:41,410 --> 00:16:42,490 Speaker 1: II civilization. 342 00:16:42,890 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's like any product, even. That first 343 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: one is tough, and then you can scale it. But, well, 344 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,700 Speaker 2: we'll get to the robots here soon. 345 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: Okay. 346 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:53,380 Speaker 2: In fact, let's take a break. 347 00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:55,260 Speaker 1: I'm getting a little psyched, Chuck. 348 00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:57,140 Speaker 2: And we'll talk a little bit more about the sun 349 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:26,050 Speaker 2: right after this. Da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da. All right. So I went 350 00:17:26,550 --> 00:17:27,629 Speaker 2: when I said the word son. 351 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:29,970 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that was odd. 352 00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:30,990 Speaker 2: No, it's not. 353 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:33,580 Speaker 1: You know, I honestly had no idea where you're going 354 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:33,820 Speaker 1: with this. 355 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:38,810 Speaker 2: Well, you do. You're being coy. Uh, Most people out there, 356 00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:42,470 Speaker 2: most longtime listeners know that our Sun podcast was one 357 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,619 Speaker 2: of our biggest struggles and would have been our biggest 358 00:17:46,660 --> 00:17:49,220 Speaker 2: achievements had we done it right. 359 00:17:50,460 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: It's the biggest pity applause we get for the Sun. No, no. 360 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: It was fine. That's what we get. 361 00:17:58,740 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: You tried. 362 00:17:59,980 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. Good for you for trying. 363 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 2: But let's talk a little bit about the Sun. This 364 00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 2: stuff I can deal with at least. 365 00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: Okay. 366 00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 2: As far as its immense power and energy. And I 367 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,459 Speaker 2: love that our own article has some of these comparisons. 368 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: The sun can generate 5 times 1023 horsepower. 369 00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:24,060 Speaker 1: I think that that is a typo. I think that 370 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:27,810 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be 5 times 10 to the 23rd power. 371 00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:28,350 Speaker 2: Oh, you think? 372 00:18:28,570 --> 00:18:30,290 Speaker 1: That's the only explanation I have for that. 373 00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:31,210 Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't make sense. 374 00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:33,150 Speaker 1: That's a really small number, actually. 375 00:18:33,890 --> 00:18:35,330 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. It'd be like. 376 00:18:36,940 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: About 5,100, 5,200 horsepower. 377 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,540 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's five times 10 to the 23. 378 00:18:43,540 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: It's got to be. 379 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: Someone just got lazy there. 380 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:46,610 Speaker 1: Seriously. 381 00:18:46,619 --> 00:18:47,980 Speaker 2: They're like, I don't know how to do the little 382 00:18:47,980 --> 00:18:49,109 Speaker 2: 23 thing. Right. 383 00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:51,669 Speaker 1: I don't know how to use superscript. What am I, 384 00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:53,010 Speaker 1: like a great editor? 385 00:18:53,770 --> 00:18:55,130 Speaker 2: Superscript. That's what it is, right? 386 00:18:55,630 --> 00:18:58,370 Speaker 1: Superscript and subscript. Right. 387 00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:00,710 Speaker 2: So let's put it this way. And this one is 388 00:19:00,730 --> 00:19:03,430 Speaker 2: the one that cracks me up. The sun has enough 389 00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: energy to melt an ice bridge. Two miles wide and 390 00:19:08,020 --> 00:19:10,659 Speaker 2: a mile thick from Earth to the sun in a 391 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 2: single second. 392 00:19:11,820 --> 00:19:12,869 Speaker 1: In a single second. 393 00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:13,790 Speaker 2: That's pretty good. 394 00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:16,650 Speaker 1: This is the only article I think I've ever seen 395 00:19:16,690 --> 00:19:20,070 Speaker 1: an ellipse in. Like the author was like, wait for it. Yeah. 396 00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:21,409 Speaker 1: In a single second. 397 00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:23,990 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't even think they did the ellipse right. 398 00:19:24,010 --> 00:19:25,740 Speaker 2: Isn't the ellipse supposed to be right after the letter 399 00:19:25,940 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: or is there a space? 400 00:19:27,020 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: I think there's supposed to be a space on either side. 401 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:29,420 Speaker 3: Oh, really? 402 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:30,660 Speaker 1: Technically, yeah. 403 00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: I've been doing these wrong then. 404 00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:37,500 Speaker 1: Well, don't feel bad. This thing says five times 1,023 horsepower, 405 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: so it's all good. 406 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: All right, what else? One trillion, one megaton bombs going 407 00:19:43,859 --> 00:19:44,810 Speaker 2: off every second. 408 00:19:45,220 --> 00:19:46,050 Speaker 1: If you're warlike. 409 00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:53,109 Speaker 2: And then finally, one single second. of sun action, whatever 410 00:19:53,130 --> 00:19:56,869 Speaker 2: that is, is enough to power our Earth for a 411 00:19:56,930 --> 00:19:59,930 Speaker 2: half a million years. That drives it home. 412 00:20:00,650 --> 00:20:03,689 Speaker 1: It does. But it also gives you an idea of 413 00:20:03,859 --> 00:20:09,770 Speaker 1: just how primitive we are energy consumption wise. Yeah. Like, 414 00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:13,070 Speaker 1: it's crazy because, you know, we're really worried about running 415 00:20:13,210 --> 00:20:16,510 Speaker 1: out of our non-renewable resources. But we use such a 416 00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:22,230 Speaker 1: minute amount of energy that the sun could power the 417 00:20:22,290 --> 00:20:26,030 Speaker 1: energy use we use currently for half a million years 418 00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:27,030 Speaker 1: in one second. 419 00:20:27,170 --> 00:20:28,510 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nuts. Right. 420 00:20:28,590 --> 00:20:31,430 Speaker 1: So that also kind of takes your mind, though, too. 421 00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:34,010 Speaker 1: And this is, I think, one of the things, one 422 00:20:34,030 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: of the buttons that Freeman Dyson pushed recently. It makes 423 00:20:39,180 --> 00:20:43,140 Speaker 1: you realize, like, holy cow, we could do some really 424 00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: amazing stuff if we could capture a significant amount of 425 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: that power that the sun puts out. 426 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: Even an insignificant amount. 427 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, really. 428 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 429 00:20:52,540 --> 00:20:58,510 Speaker 1: You'd keep Iggy Pop going for, like, another hundred years. 430 00:20:58,530 --> 00:21:01,429 Speaker 2: So, like you said, the idea behind the Dyson sphere 431 00:21:01,450 --> 00:21:06,710 Speaker 2: is this structure. He originally proposed a hollow sphere in space. 432 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,730 Speaker 2: kind of referred to it as a shell. But I 433 00:21:10,810 --> 00:21:14,610 Speaker 2: think now, or I think he went on to make 434 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:16,210 Speaker 2: it a solid sphere. 435 00:21:16,570 --> 00:21:22,949 Speaker 1: So he actually said he was really, what's the opposite 436 00:21:22,990 --> 00:21:23,510 Speaker 1: of clear? 437 00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 2: Convoluted? 438 00:21:25,540 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess a little convoluted. He didn't really go 439 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: to the trouble of spelling it out because, again, remember, 440 00:21:30,340 --> 00:21:32,900 Speaker 1: this is a thought experiment that had to do with 441 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,659 Speaker 1: finding aliens, not an engineering schematic. So he used some very– 442 00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:39,310 Speaker 1: it was vague. That was the word I was looking for. 443 00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: He was using some vague words. People were like, wait, 444 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? What is this sphere? Is 445 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: it cohesive? Is it like a solid body? Is it 446 00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: hollow in the middle? What's going on? And he came 447 00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:54,610 Speaker 1: back and said in a letter, a follow-up, he said, no, no, no. 448 00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:57,690 Speaker 1: Like there's no way you could build something that would 449 00:21:57,770 --> 00:22:00,850 Speaker 1: go around our sun that would be a solid body. 450 00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: That was hollow in the middle, like it couldn't be 451 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:09,110 Speaker 1: a cohesive whole because the rotational forces, the sheer forces 452 00:22:09,330 --> 00:22:12,869 Speaker 1: and the gravitational forces acting on it would just obliterate 453 00:22:12,890 --> 00:22:13,869 Speaker 1: it immediately. 454 00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:14,230 Speaker 2: Yeah. 455 00:22:14,530 --> 00:22:16,990 Speaker 1: Like it'd just be mechanically impossible to make it like that. 456 00:22:17,230 --> 00:22:19,810 Speaker 1: So he said, so maybe you would make something like 457 00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:23,710 Speaker 1: a bubble or a swarm or something like that. 458 00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:26,310 Speaker 2: Yeah. And he said in the letter, I've enclosed some 459 00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 2: blotter acid. Put it on your tongue. 460 00:22:29,180 --> 00:22:31,450 Speaker 1: You're going to love this. It's dynamite. 461 00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:33,990 Speaker 2: And call me in an hour. Might make a little 462 00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:37,969 Speaker 2: more sense. Yeah, our own article points out that one 463 00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:41,490 Speaker 2: of the first downsides, obviously, if you surround the sun completely, 464 00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:46,090 Speaker 2: is that sunlight has, I mean, I know we'd be 465 00:22:46,130 --> 00:22:50,210 Speaker 2: harnessing that energy, but sunlight provides a lot more than 466 00:22:50,530 --> 00:22:52,770 Speaker 2: just energy. Oh, yeah. 467 00:22:53,070 --> 00:22:55,990 Speaker 1: Like it makes us happy. Yeah. People write entire songs 468 00:22:56,030 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: about how sunshine makes you happy, like John Denver did. 469 00:22:59,830 --> 00:23:00,170 Speaker 1: You know? 470 00:23:00,350 --> 00:23:02,030 Speaker 2: Uh-huh. And that was just on his shoulders. 471 00:23:02,590 --> 00:23:06,290 Speaker 1: It would be a global bummer if somebody enclosed the sun. 472 00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:08,110 Speaker 1: That's like supervillain kind of stuff, right? 473 00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:09,170 Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. 474 00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:12,699 Speaker 1: So that's a problem. Another problem, though, is that if 475 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: you're going to build something like this, and Dyson even 476 00:23:15,740 --> 00:23:18,239 Speaker 1: suggested the size of it, he was saying it would 477 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: need to have a radius. So a radius, not even 478 00:23:20,940 --> 00:23:24,340 Speaker 1: a diameter, half of the diameter. A radius... That was 479 00:23:24,460 --> 00:23:27,890 Speaker 1: two times the distance of the Earth to the sun. 480 00:23:28,090 --> 00:23:28,310 Speaker 2: Yeah. 481 00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:31,629 Speaker 1: So this thing would be massive, which means that it 482 00:23:31,650 --> 00:23:35,129 Speaker 1: would also enclose the Earth too, right? Yeah. Like he 483 00:23:35,170 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: wasn't proposing you just go up and create this tight 484 00:23:39,130 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: ball around the sun. Like it would be much further 485 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: spread out and it would actually encompass the Earth's orbit 486 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:45,090 Speaker 1: within it. 487 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: Oh, so it would be like this is mine. It 488 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,149 Speaker 2: belongs to the Earth and no one else can get 489 00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:52,530 Speaker 2: any sun. 490 00:23:53,550 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would block off the stuff outside of two 491 00:23:57,820 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: times the distance of the Earth's orbit. So there's a 492 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,780 Speaker 1: couple planets out there that would get the old screw job. 493 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,500 Speaker 1: But the ones inside twice the distance of Earth's orbit 494 00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:11,060 Speaker 1: would really benefit from it. 495 00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 2: That's very selfish. Yeah. 496 00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: But the other problem is, too, Chuck, is I imagine 497 00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: things would get pretty hot pretty quickly inside this thing. 498 00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:22,990 Speaker 1: So the Earth would be destroyed. 499 00:24:24,030 --> 00:24:24,250 Speaker 2: Yes. 500 00:24:25,150 --> 00:24:27,210 Speaker 1: And to get around this, and a lot of people 501 00:24:27,250 --> 00:24:31,730 Speaker 1: I don't think got it immediately, he said, well, you 502 00:24:31,869 --> 00:24:35,570 Speaker 1: just live inside the Dyson sphere, like in the outer 503 00:24:35,650 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: shell of it. 504 00:24:36,910 --> 00:24:38,210 Speaker 2: Oh, sure. Make it habitable? 505 00:24:38,570 --> 00:24:38,850 Speaker 1: Yeah. 506 00:24:39,109 --> 00:24:40,530 Speaker 2: Right. Well, that makes sense. 507 00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:41,090 Speaker 1: Yeah. 508 00:24:41,530 --> 00:24:43,790 Speaker 2: But what you were saying about just the sheer size 509 00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:47,490 Speaker 2: of it, there literally aren't enough raw materials on our 510 00:24:47,540 --> 00:24:51,260 Speaker 2: entire planet to make something this big. In fact, in 511 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,510 Speaker 2: our entire solar system. There probably aren't enough raw materials 512 00:24:54,550 --> 00:24:55,870 Speaker 2: to make a structure like this. 513 00:24:56,250 --> 00:25:01,260 Speaker 1: No. And not still try to inhabit it. There's just 514 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:01,650 Speaker 1: no way. 515 00:25:01,890 --> 00:25:02,900 Speaker 2: Yeah. 516 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,780 Speaker 1: Some people say, though, and Freeman himself, I keep wanting 517 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,700 Speaker 1: to call him Freeman, like that's his last name. But 518 00:25:09,740 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: I just end up sounding like I know him on 519 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 1: a first name. 520 00:25:13,340 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 2: Basis. 521 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: He was saying you might be able to build something 522 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: like this by disassembling Jupiter. Well, that was his suggestion. 523 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 3: Oh, really? 524 00:25:23,470 --> 00:25:27,630 Speaker 1: Yeah, he said disassemble Jupiter and put it back together, 525 00:25:28,130 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: and you could build a Dyson sphere that had a 526 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,100 Speaker 1: radius twice the distance from the Earth to the sun 527 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,649 Speaker 1: and make a solar array of it. 528 00:25:40,740 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: Must have been some good acid. 529 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. 530 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 2: Good for him. 531 00:25:43,820 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 532 00:25:44,420 --> 00:25:47,379 Speaker 2: All right, so I think we're both in agreement, and 533 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,060 Speaker 2: most people are in agreement, that this sphere idea is 534 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: not at all tangible. 535 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: Not as like a cohesive whole. 536 00:25:56,180 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: No, like it just remains in the realm of thought experiment. 537 00:25:59,040 --> 00:25:59,659 Speaker 2: So why bother? 538 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,869 Speaker 1: Oh, well, that's the interesting thing to me. It basically 539 00:26:04,940 --> 00:26:09,030 Speaker 1: is kind of like he meant it as a thought experiment. 540 00:26:09,609 --> 00:26:12,169 Speaker 1: It's been brought out of the realm of thought experiments. 541 00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:15,650 Speaker 1: And yeah, we're in no way, shape or form capable 542 00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:17,970 Speaker 1: of doing this, but a lot of people have tried 543 00:26:18,010 --> 00:26:20,270 Speaker 1: to figure out how to do it. And I think it's, 544 00:26:20,590 --> 00:26:23,510 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that's like, yeah, it's theoretically possible. Um, 545 00:26:25,050 --> 00:26:32,260 Speaker 1: But we're nowhere near that level of capability right now. 546 00:26:32,619 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think his other ideas that he came up with, though, 547 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,060 Speaker 2: are decent. 548 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: Oh, like the swarm and stuff? 549 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:41,959 Speaker 2: Well, yeah. I mean, let's get to that. He himself 550 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: even said the sphere is probably not very realistic at all. 551 00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:47,060 Speaker 2: So why don't we do this? Why don't we think 552 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:51,430 Speaker 2: of different machines maybe that are independent of one another 553 00:26:51,470 --> 00:26:54,580 Speaker 2: that actually circle the sun? collect this energy, and then 554 00:26:54,619 --> 00:26:55,500 Speaker 2: beam it back to Earth. 555 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,330 Speaker 1: Right. So to him, his initial idea was that sphere, 556 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,869 Speaker 1: and then what it came to be was that the 557 00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:06,450 Speaker 1: sphere was like this umbrella term for these different, slightly 558 00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:10,410 Speaker 1: more realistic ideas, like the swarm or the bubble. 559 00:27:10,590 --> 00:27:10,790 Speaker 2: Right. 560 00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:12,970 Speaker 1: So, like, what's the swarm? 561 00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: Well, the swarm, maybe they are in different orbits, and they, 562 00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:23,090 Speaker 2: like the swarm, he likens it to B's. Like, instead 563 00:27:23,109 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 2: of gathering pollen, they're just around the sun, moving around, 564 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,860 Speaker 2: gathering energy and power. Right. And some of those might 565 00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: be habitable, too. 566 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,619 Speaker 1: Right. And they're like, they're solar arrays that are satellites 567 00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: that are moving around on independent orbits of one another. 568 00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:37,900 Speaker 2: That's right. 569 00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:41,630 Speaker 1: And the way that they would make a Dyson sphere is, yeah, 570 00:27:41,650 --> 00:27:44,460 Speaker 1: there's a lot of space in between them. But if 571 00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: you step back a few orders of magnitude further back 572 00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:50,590 Speaker 1: into the other parts of the galaxy or the universe, 573 00:27:51,070 --> 00:27:54,910 Speaker 1: it would appear as basically a whole sphere around the sun. 574 00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:55,590 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. 575 00:27:55,970 --> 00:27:57,830 Speaker 1: So it still falls under that category, right? 576 00:27:57,970 --> 00:28:00,150 Speaker 2: Yeah, he had to keep that sphere thing because of branding. 577 00:28:01,859 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: He didn't want to lose that. 578 00:28:02,980 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: He's like, the genie's out of the bottle. 579 00:28:04,780 --> 00:28:06,460 Speaker 2: They're like, you really don't need it to be a sphere. 580 00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:10,100 Speaker 2: He's like, oh, it's got to be a sphere. So 581 00:28:10,140 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 2: those satellites are actually, they would be called statites. 582 00:28:15,030 --> 00:28:17,609 Speaker 1: Well, no, if they were the bubble, they would be statites. 583 00:28:17,650 --> 00:28:18,629 Speaker 1: This guy's got it wrong. 584 00:28:19,170 --> 00:28:19,530 Speaker 2: Oh, really? 585 00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:20,090 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. 586 00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:25,750 Speaker 2: I thought the solar sails could be the statites. No? 587 00:28:26,609 --> 00:28:30,869 Speaker 1: So what I saw, the difference between the swarm and 588 00:28:30,910 --> 00:28:33,969 Speaker 1: the bubble was that the swarm has the satellites in 589 00:28:34,130 --> 00:28:37,210 Speaker 1: orbit around the star, and they're in their own orbits, 590 00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:38,730 Speaker 1: not interacting with each other. 591 00:28:38,830 --> 00:28:39,350 Speaker 2: Oh, I got you. 592 00:28:39,670 --> 00:28:43,530 Speaker 1: A bubble is where... the satellites are in a fixed 593 00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: position relative to the star. 594 00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:47,140 Speaker 2: So those are the statites. Right. 595 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,580 Speaker 1: So they're just kind of hovering outside of the star, 596 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: not in orbit. 597 00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:53,020 Speaker 2: Okay. 598 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,820 Speaker 1: Just kind of hovering instead. 599 00:28:56,380 --> 00:28:58,050 Speaker 2: And then those are the two, and then the third 600 00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:59,410 Speaker 2: are the solar sails, correct? 601 00:29:00,070 --> 00:29:01,930 Speaker 1: Well, you can make a solar sail, or you can 602 00:29:01,970 --> 00:29:04,010 Speaker 1: make any of them with solar sails, and I don't 603 00:29:04,030 --> 00:29:05,070 Speaker 1: know where that guy got that. 604 00:29:05,690 --> 00:29:08,170 Speaker 2: Yeah, did we do a whole episode on solar sails? 605 00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:08,610 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. 606 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, it makes sense. If you get 607 00:29:11,220 --> 00:29:15,810 Speaker 2: a bunch of these solar sails orbiting the sun, you 608 00:29:15,980 --> 00:29:18,610 Speaker 2: might think that you could harness the power and send 609 00:29:18,650 --> 00:29:19,510 Speaker 2: it back to Earth some way. 610 00:29:19,910 --> 00:29:25,050 Speaker 1: Right, exactly. And, like, you could use that with any 611 00:29:25,090 --> 00:29:28,530 Speaker 1: of these, whether it's a bubble, whether it's a swarm, 612 00:29:28,910 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: whatever you're doing. And if you, like you said a 613 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,510 Speaker 1: second ago, made them habitable, then all of a sudden 614 00:29:35,730 --> 00:29:39,290 Speaker 1: you have a recipe for survival for the human race 615 00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:42,209 Speaker 1: if Earth ever existed. becomes untenable, right? Right. Or we 616 00:29:42,270 --> 00:29:44,450 Speaker 1: can't terraform Mars. We can go live on these things. 617 00:29:44,850 --> 00:29:47,620 Speaker 1: And when we think about living out in space, my 618 00:29:47,650 --> 00:29:51,420 Speaker 1: brain immediately goes to like the cramped, tiny tin can 619 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: conditions of the ISS. These things don't need to be 620 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: like that. I mean, if we're creating Dyson spheres, we're 621 00:29:57,620 --> 00:29:59,860 Speaker 1: going to be advanced enough that we could build some 622 00:29:59,940 --> 00:30:05,220 Speaker 1: really lux satellites and statites as solar arrays to go 623 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,380 Speaker 1: hover or orbit around the sun, right? So they could 624 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,940 Speaker 1: be huge. So big, in fact, that Dyson was saying, 625 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: this doesn't have to be an engineering project that's carried 626 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: out by a central global government that's directing the whole thing. 627 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: That as our energy consumption and energy needs continue, nations 628 00:30:27,260 --> 00:30:30,790 Speaker 1: could take it upon themselves to, individually to create these 629 00:30:30,850 --> 00:30:34,729 Speaker 1: solar sails that are habitable, put them into orbit independently, 630 00:30:35,050 --> 00:30:39,020 Speaker 1: and just through the desire to preserve one's own life 631 00:30:39,410 --> 00:30:41,780 Speaker 1: would make sure that their orbit wasn't going to intersect 632 00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:44,260 Speaker 1: with somebody else's orbit who was already up there, and 633 00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,820 Speaker 1: just organically a Dyson sphere in the form of a 634 00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:51,060 Speaker 1: swarm or a bubble could form on its own just 635 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:57,950 Speaker 1: by self-interested nations developing this technology basically independent of one another. Wow. 636 00:30:58,710 --> 00:31:04,110 Speaker 1: I don't know. He had some far-thinking thoughts. 637 00:31:04,770 --> 00:31:06,910 Speaker 2: Far-thinking? 638 00:31:06,930 --> 00:31:07,580 Speaker 1: I don't have those. 639 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:09,780 Speaker 2: Should we take another break? 640 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:10,740 Speaker 1: I think so. 641 00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 2: All right. We'll do that, and we'll wrap it up 642 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: a little bit with how to get this energy back 643 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 2: to the home planet. Da-da-da-da-da Da-da-da-da. 644 00:31:24,510 --> 00:31:27,209 Speaker 1: Stuff you should know. 645 00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:46,540 Speaker 2: All right. So earlier you talked about dismantling Jupiter with 646 00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 2: a socket set, a couple of screwdrivers. 647 00:31:49,540 --> 00:31:51,260 Speaker 1: Yeah. 648 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: Uh, Mercury is another planet that people have talked about 649 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 2: as potentially harvesting. Um, the good thing about Mercury, a 650 00:31:58,780 --> 00:32:01,940 Speaker 2: couple of things. One is that it is, uh, near 651 00:32:02,010 --> 00:32:03,310 Speaker 2: the sun. Yeah. 652 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,550 Speaker 1: So who needs it already? 653 00:32:04,830 --> 00:32:07,530 Speaker 2: Yeah. So it would make it, um, proximity wise, it 654 00:32:07,550 --> 00:32:10,780 Speaker 2: makes a little bit of sense and, uh, I think 655 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,350 Speaker 2: this Oxford University physicist, Stuart Armstrong, is who proposed this. 656 00:32:15,710 --> 00:32:18,230 Speaker 2: And one of the other great things about mercury is 657 00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:21,690 Speaker 2: it has a lot of great raw materials, namely iron, 658 00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:23,790 Speaker 2: that we could use. Right. 659 00:32:24,590 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: And he actually suggested that we could disassemble mercury fully 660 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,340 Speaker 1: in basically what amounted to a 40-year stretch. 661 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,830 Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say 20. 30 days, 662 00:32:34,890 --> 00:32:35,310 Speaker 2: I could do it. 663 00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:38,910 Speaker 1: Right, exactly. If a contractor tells you he can take 664 00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:41,150 Speaker 1: Mercury apart in 30 days, don't trust him. 665 00:32:41,310 --> 00:32:41,630 Speaker 2: Agreed. 666 00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:48,620 Speaker 1: No, this was in basically four 10-year stretches. Combined equals 667 00:32:48,620 --> 00:32:52,860 Speaker 1: 40 years, obviously. But I think his point, Armstrong's point, 668 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,140 Speaker 1: was that you don't have to disassemble Mercury as a 669 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: whole and wait until it's fully disassembled to put it 670 00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:03,130 Speaker 1: together into Dyson to start creating a Dyson sphere. you 671 00:33:03,150 --> 00:33:06,210 Speaker 1: can disassemble and then start reassembling as you go. 672 00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:06,730 Speaker 2: Right. 673 00:33:06,990 --> 00:33:09,670 Speaker 1: And once you start getting one bit of it online, 674 00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: it's going to help power and create better efficiency to 675 00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: harvest and reassemble the rest of Mercury, you know, like 676 00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:20,020 Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. Yeah. 677 00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:23,060 Speaker 2: And not only that, but you could use that energy. 678 00:33:23,140 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: All of a sudden, there would be supercomputing like you've 679 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,870 Speaker 2: never seen. Space travel would get faster. Like all these 680 00:33:30,910 --> 00:33:33,470 Speaker 2: technologies that we can't even like think about yet would 681 00:33:33,490 --> 00:33:36,230 Speaker 2: be growing at exponential rates. Right. 682 00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:38,709 Speaker 1: And I mean, that's the point. Like when you're like, well, 683 00:33:38,770 --> 00:33:41,250 Speaker 1: what would we do with with, you know, all of 684 00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:45,190 Speaker 1: this energy every second coming off of the sun? Who knows? 685 00:33:45,850 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: We cannot conceive of the stuff we could do with 686 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,700 Speaker 1: that amount of energy yet. 687 00:33:51,860 --> 00:33:52,060 Speaker 2: Yeah. 688 00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: But I guarantee it's not going to be, you know. 689 00:33:55,270 --> 00:33:58,420 Speaker 1: using fuel, like charging our smartphones. It should be for 690 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,180 Speaker 1: some pretty neat stuff, I guess. 691 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,660 Speaker 2: So the other cool idea is that, holy cow, how 692 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 2: many people would have to take part in this kind 693 00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:13,750 Speaker 2: of a project? Just literally the labor force you would need. 694 00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:18,370 Speaker 2: And I think Armstrong is the one who said, well, 695 00:34:18,430 --> 00:34:22,330 Speaker 2: you could use robots, actually. And with the same idea 696 00:34:22,390 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 2: that once you get some of these robots going, if 697 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 2: they could self-replicate and build themselves, then you can just 698 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,930 Speaker 2: kind of sit back and watch the paint dry on Earth, 699 00:34:33,410 --> 00:34:36,750 Speaker 2: and all these robots are up there just building themselves 700 00:34:37,310 --> 00:34:40,290 Speaker 2: and working and working and doing everything for you. 701 00:34:40,750 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: Exactly. And that's why that was his– I don't know 702 00:34:44,580 --> 00:34:47,020 Speaker 1: if it was his point, someone's point along the way, 703 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: is that when you start that– when you build that 704 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: first Dyson sphere– All of a sudden, it's just going 705 00:34:52,860 --> 00:34:55,140 Speaker 1: to keep going and going and going faster. It's going 706 00:34:55,180 --> 00:34:57,569 Speaker 1: to spread at an exponential rate. So you would go 707 00:34:57,620 --> 00:35:00,150 Speaker 1: from a type two civilization to a type three civilization 708 00:35:00,190 --> 00:35:03,109 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. And as a matter of fact, you would 709 00:35:03,170 --> 00:35:06,590 Speaker 1: also if this project was carried out by a centralized government, 710 00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 1: it would spread so quickly and so far in such 711 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,339 Speaker 1: a relatively short amount of time. Something like going from 712 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,299 Speaker 1: that first Dyson sphere to colonizing an entire galaxy in 713 00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:22,219 Speaker 1: something like a million years. that even if it was 714 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,370 Speaker 1: a centralized government involved at the beginning, they would very 715 00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:27,950 Speaker 1: quickly lose control of the colonies because they'd be so 716 00:35:27,989 --> 00:35:30,569 Speaker 1: spread out and there'd be so many of them that 717 00:35:30,590 --> 00:35:34,009 Speaker 1: they would just basically become self-sufficient and spread over the galaxy. 718 00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: So the reason this is noteworthy is that if you 719 00:35:39,260 --> 00:35:44,750 Speaker 1: found one Dyson sphere, you would probably find millions or 720 00:35:44,830 --> 00:35:47,670 Speaker 1: billions or trillions of them in, in just a, in 721 00:35:47,870 --> 00:35:51,049 Speaker 1: a one section of the universe, right? You're not, you, 722 00:35:51,170 --> 00:35:53,870 Speaker 1: you probably are not going to find just one Dyson sphere. 723 00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:56,469 Speaker 1: You're going to find a Dyson galaxy. 724 00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:57,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 725 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,300 Speaker 1: A type three civilization. And that's what they're looking for 726 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: by sifting through some of these old sky surveys. And 727 00:36:05,860 --> 00:36:09,009 Speaker 1: they found a couple of, of candidates actually in the 728 00:36:09,070 --> 00:36:10,810 Speaker 1: last year or so, I think. Oh yeah. 729 00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:11,130 Speaker 2: Yeah. 730 00:36:11,230 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: There's a, there's a couple of, surveys that have found stars, 731 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: and they have typical star names. One is KIC 8462852, 732 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: which is a sexy name. 733 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 734 00:36:26,380 --> 00:36:29,569 Speaker 1: And then the other is EPIC, which I'm pretty sure 735 00:36:29,610 --> 00:36:37,530 Speaker 1: they call EPIC, 204278916, right? Wow. And EPIC was discovered 736 00:36:37,570 --> 00:36:40,390 Speaker 1: by the Kepler spacecraft in 2014, and the reason these 737 00:36:40,430 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: things are noteworthy is because there is some sort of 738 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:54,089 Speaker 1: weird transit pattern where the light dims, I guess randomly, 739 00:36:54,570 --> 00:36:58,770 Speaker 1: or not necessarily on some sort of set schedule, around 740 00:36:58,830 --> 00:37:02,150 Speaker 1: these stars. And you would say, well, that's probably just 741 00:37:02,190 --> 00:37:04,830 Speaker 1: a planet or something coming in between it. Well, yes, 742 00:37:04,910 --> 00:37:09,129 Speaker 1: they thought about that already. And normally a star will 743 00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:13,770 Speaker 1: dim by about 1%. when a planet-sized object comes in 744 00:37:13,830 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: between you, the observer, and that planet. These things are dipping, 745 00:37:19,380 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: in the case of the KIC star, 22%. And in 746 00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:31,150 Speaker 1: the case of the EPIC star, 65%, right? Okay. They 747 00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:35,150 Speaker 1: have no idea what could be massive enough to dim 748 00:37:35,469 --> 00:37:38,510 Speaker 1: those two stars that much. They haven't encountered it before. 749 00:37:38,980 --> 00:37:41,020 Speaker 1: There's a couple of theories. One of them said a 750 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: swarm of comets. Somebody else said, well, you could very 751 00:37:44,930 --> 00:37:47,490 Speaker 1: easily go from a swarm of comets to a swarm 752 00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:51,210 Speaker 1: of solar arrays. So maybe these are evidence of Dyson spheres. 753 00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:52,750 Speaker 2: Yeah. 754 00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:54,469 Speaker 1: I mean, it's possible. 755 00:37:55,770 --> 00:37:58,810 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's kind of fun to talk about 756 00:37:59,489 --> 00:38:03,670 Speaker 2: robots building themselves and them doing all this work up there. 757 00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:07,410 Speaker 2: One of the big problems is we're not nearly, I mean, 758 00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 2: we have robot technology now, but Nothing close to that 759 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 2: at the present. And as this article points out, that 760 00:38:16,260 --> 00:38:19,150 Speaker 2: you would need like it would have to be so advanced. 761 00:38:19,450 --> 00:38:23,110 Speaker 2: These robots would have to be operating without fail up 762 00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 2: there because they would be by themselves or be able 763 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,739 Speaker 2: to fix themselves and fix problems. Like the intelligence would 764 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,859 Speaker 2: need to be so far advanced. Like we can't even 765 00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 2: imagine what that would be like. 766 00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:39,819 Speaker 1: No, but I mean, even if Michio Kaku is off 767 00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:43,399 Speaker 1: by 100 or 200 or 500 years, that's not that 768 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: far off. 769 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:44,580 Speaker 2: Yeah. 770 00:38:44,780 --> 00:38:46,980 Speaker 1: Like if we can harness all the energy on Earth, 771 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,910 Speaker 1: we should very quickly improve as far as our technology 772 00:38:51,950 --> 00:38:55,569 Speaker 1: is concerned. So who knows? Maybe those robots aren't that 773 00:38:55,630 --> 00:38:56,529 Speaker 1: far off, you know? 774 00:38:56,770 --> 00:38:57,969 Speaker 2: Yeah. 775 00:38:58,830 --> 00:39:01,270 Speaker 1: One other thing that I saw from this, though, was 776 00:39:01,370 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: when Freeman Dyson was talking about disassembling jupiter chuck he 777 00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: said that it should take i don't know roughly 800 778 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: years worth of the sun's energy output to disassemble and 779 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: reassemble jupiter yeah well that's not bad but do you 780 00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: remember how much comes out of the sun in a 781 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: second we're like whoa you know that's so much we 782 00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:25,700 Speaker 1: would need 800 years worth of that to disassemble and 783 00:39:25,739 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: reassemble jupiter so we like not only do we not 784 00:39:32,219 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: have the capability of building a Dyson sphere, we don't 785 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,879 Speaker 1: even have the capability of disassembling Jupiter. We just don't 786 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,540 Speaker 1: have any way to harness that energy, which creates this 787 00:39:41,610 --> 00:39:45,690 Speaker 1: kind of chicken or egg dilemma. Like we almost need 788 00:39:45,730 --> 00:39:48,730 Speaker 1: a Dyson sphere to create a Dyson sphere at this point. Yeah. 789 00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 2: Somewhere Freeman Dyson is laughing. 790 00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: On acid. 791 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 2: Somewhere in New Jersey. One of the other big issues is, okay, 792 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 2: let's say that you could even do something like this 793 00:39:59,219 --> 00:40:02,830 Speaker 2: and harness this energy. To get it to Earth is 794 00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:06,950 Speaker 2: another big problem if we want to make it actually usable. 795 00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:11,770 Speaker 2: Some people said we could laser it over. But the 796 00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:15,010 Speaker 2: problems with laser beams is after about a mile, you're 797 00:40:15,030 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 2: going to lose a lot of efficiency with it. So 798 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 2: good luck with that. Microwaves have been floated out there, 799 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,420 Speaker 2: but microwaves, even though they're more effective farther out than lasers, 800 00:40:28,580 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 2: you're still limited to about 100 miles, which will do 801 00:40:31,260 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 2: us no good. Right. So what's the answer? 802 00:40:35,540 --> 00:40:35,900 Speaker 1: I don't know. 803 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,100 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have one either. 804 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess one of the easy ones is, well, 805 00:40:39,580 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: just inhabit the solar arrays. Go inhabit the Dyson Sphere. 806 00:40:43,930 --> 00:40:45,930 Speaker 1: Stop being so precious about living on Earth. 807 00:40:46,030 --> 00:40:46,690 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. 808 00:40:48,090 --> 00:40:51,250 Speaker 1: Which makes sense, but I like living on Earth. 809 00:40:51,570 --> 00:40:55,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, but would Earth 800 years from now be worth 810 00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 2: living on? 811 00:40:58,340 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: It depends, Chuck. Will it be skipping to school and 812 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: skinning knees and spelling bees and all that still? Because 813 00:41:07,140 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: if so, then yes. 814 00:41:08,780 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. 815 00:41:11,610 --> 00:41:15,969 Speaker 1: It's another Simpsons reference. Oh, okay. It's the one where 816 00:41:16,010 --> 00:41:19,149 Speaker 1: Principal Skinner came back, the real Principal Skinner. Oh, yeah. 817 00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 2: Great one. 818 00:41:19,530 --> 00:41:24,030 Speaker 1: He's like, he goes, if you think skin and knees 819 00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: and spelling bees are corny, well, then Mr. Corn Me Up. 820 00:41:28,020 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 2: That's right. That's when they introduced, we'd like to introduce 821 00:41:31,860 --> 00:41:34,380 Speaker 2: our Principal Skinner, Principal Skimor Skinner. 822 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: Armand Tanzarian. 823 00:41:37,660 --> 00:41:38,700 Speaker 2: Yep. That's a great one. 824 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:40,940 Speaker 1: There's one other thing. You got anything else? 825 00:41:41,460 --> 00:41:42,060 Speaker 2: I got nothing else. 826 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,970 Speaker 1: I got one more thing. So there's. That whole idea 827 00:41:44,989 --> 00:41:49,350 Speaker 1: that Dyson came up with to search the skies for 828 00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:52,700 Speaker 1: this imprint where there's a lot of infrared radiation but 829 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,980 Speaker 1: no visible light. Yeah. There's a problem with that because 830 00:41:56,020 --> 00:41:58,819 Speaker 1: this guy came along. His name was Robert Bradbury. He's 831 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: a futurist. I think maybe a science fiction writer. 832 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:01,980 Speaker 2: Ray? 833 00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: No, Robert, his little brother. 834 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,380 Speaker 2: Yeah. 835 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: Robert Bradbury said, well, you know what? If you really 836 00:42:09,410 --> 00:42:13,149 Speaker 1: wanted to make these Dyson spheres efficient– you'd make them 837 00:42:13,530 --> 00:42:17,330 Speaker 1: in the same manner that those Russian nesting dolls are made, 838 00:42:17,350 --> 00:42:18,810 Speaker 1: like a matryoshka, right? 839 00:42:18,850 --> 00:42:19,230 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 840 00:42:19,350 --> 00:42:23,650 Speaker 1: So you'd have the internal sphere and then outer spheres 841 00:42:24,110 --> 00:42:27,690 Speaker 1: going around it, catching all that lost heat energy and 842 00:42:28,030 --> 00:42:31,260 Speaker 1: turning it into usable power, which is awesome because you'd 843 00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:35,020 Speaker 1: have basically 100% efficiency as far as the Dyson sphere 844 00:42:35,060 --> 00:42:37,940 Speaker 1: was concerned. But if you're looking at the stars... you 845 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: would see nothing. Because not only would there not be 846 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,420 Speaker 1: visible light, there also wouldn't be any infrared radiation. And 847 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:47,780 Speaker 1: Freeman Dyson just hung his head, went into his room, 848 00:42:47,989 --> 00:42:49,930 Speaker 1: shut the door, and laid down on his bed for 849 00:42:49,989 --> 00:42:50,290 Speaker 1: a while. 850 00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:52,149 Speaker 2: The end. 851 00:42:52,910 --> 00:42:56,630 Speaker 1: Yep. Well, if you want to know more about Dyson Spheres, 852 00:42:56,650 --> 00:43:00,770 Speaker 1: you can start with this article on HowStuffWorks.com by typing 853 00:43:00,890 --> 00:43:04,710 Speaker 1: Dyson Spheres into the search bar at HowStuffWorks, as I said. 854 00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: And since I said how stuff works twice, that means 855 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:08,939 Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail. 856 00:43:11,710 --> 00:43:17,510 Speaker 2: I'm going to call this We Helped a Lady Out. Hey, guys. 857 00:43:18,010 --> 00:43:19,630 Speaker 2: Hope this email finds you well. I've been listening for 858 00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:22,290 Speaker 2: only a short time, but I've become so addicted, I've 859 00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:26,610 Speaker 2: already binged about half of your episodes offered on Spotify. 860 00:43:27,450 --> 00:43:28,380 Speaker 1: I think she meant binged. 861 00:43:29,469 --> 00:43:29,720 Speaker 2: I know. 862 00:43:29,739 --> 00:43:30,100 Speaker 1: Binged. 863 00:43:30,580 --> 00:43:33,020 Speaker 2: We're on Spotify, by the way, and you can bing 864 00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:33,660 Speaker 2: us all you want. 865 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:33,739 Speaker 1: Oh. 866 00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:40,020 Speaker 2: From that platform. Like many others, I absolutely adore your show. 867 00:43:40,060 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 2: I came across the podcast after a very upsetting event 868 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,420 Speaker 2: in my life. To save you the sob story, I'd 869 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 2: just say I was going through intense grief. There was 870 00:43:48,219 --> 00:43:52,190 Speaker 2: something about your kind voices, strong intellect, and raunchy humor 871 00:43:52,210 --> 00:43:54,430 Speaker 2: that gave me a thirst for learning and a new 872 00:43:54,469 --> 00:43:55,149 Speaker 2: purpose in life. 873 00:43:55,630 --> 00:43:58,910 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Do we have raunchy humor? 874 00:43:59,250 --> 00:43:59,530 Speaker 3: Sure. 875 00:44:00,270 --> 00:44:01,270 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. 876 00:44:01,690 --> 00:44:02,830 Speaker 2: Oh, I think she picks up on that. 877 00:44:03,260 --> 00:44:04,410 Speaker 1: That's like Cheech and Chong. 878 00:44:04,570 --> 00:44:05,470 Speaker 2: The sideways comments. 879 00:44:06,210 --> 00:44:09,330 Speaker 1: We're like the new Cheech and Chong. 880 00:44:09,350 --> 00:44:11,310 Speaker 2: I thank you a billion times over for just being 881 00:44:11,350 --> 00:44:13,790 Speaker 2: who you are. The podcast was a large factor in 882 00:44:13,830 --> 00:44:17,270 Speaker 2: saving my life. Don't ever underestimate or doubt what you 883 00:44:17,290 --> 00:44:19,850 Speaker 2: do and know that there are people like me out 884 00:44:19,890 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 2: there soaking up every word. Sincerely, Cheery B. 885 00:44:25,020 --> 00:44:28,020 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Cheery. That's nice. I like hearing that 886 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:28,740 Speaker 1: we help people. 887 00:44:28,860 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 2: It makes me feel good in my belly. 888 00:44:31,770 --> 00:44:34,230 Speaker 1: Yeah, we appreciate the compliment. It's very nice of you 889 00:44:34,270 --> 00:44:36,109 Speaker 1: to take the time to write in to let us know. 890 00:44:37,230 --> 00:44:40,370 Speaker 1: And you can let us know that you think we're 891 00:44:40,410 --> 00:44:44,890 Speaker 1: the tops by tweeting to us. I'm at joshumclark, and 892 00:44:44,930 --> 00:44:48,730 Speaker 1: there's also an official SYSK podcast one. You can hang 893 00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:55,540 Speaker 1: out with Chuck at facebook.com slash charleswchuckbryant or facebook.com slash stuffyoushouldknow. 894 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: You can send us an email to stuffpodcasts at howstuffworks.com. 895 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: And as always, join us at our home on the 896 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:11,370 Speaker 1: web at StuffYouShouldKnow.com. For more on this and thousands of 897 00:45:11,410 --> 00:45:13,610 Speaker 1: other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com.