1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the myth, 4 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: the legend, our super producer, mister Max Williams. The crowd 5 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: goes wild, it does do that? Hey, who are those 6 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: dulcet tones over there? Why I spy mister Noel Brown? 7 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: Is your little eye? 8 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? 9 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: And my big one too? Funny, I have very disparate 10 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: eye sizes. 11 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 4: It's true it's a podcast, but you can use your 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 4: imagination and picture Ben's bizarro eye situation. I know, actually, Ben, 13 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 4: that's not true. You're being hard on yourself. Gorgeous, Oh, 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 4: thank you. I like to gaze into them. 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: If anything, I do have what they call rom com eyes, 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: and I appreciate that they. 17 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: Don't know what that means. It's something I made up, 18 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: like bedroom eyes. Who knows? 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: You know, that's up to your Particulous Historians write to 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: us and let us know what. 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: Rom com eyes are. 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 4: What Ben Bolen's eyes look like to you? 23 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's me. 24 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: I'm going by Ben Mike check Bollin for today's episode, 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: and Noel, you and I have something very very special 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: here at the end of the year. We're gosh. We 27 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: are both avid fans of music. You know, I particularly 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: am a huge fan of hip hop. You are a 29 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: multi instrumentalist. 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 4: And we both go out for history occasionally, you know, 31 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 4: every sort of talk about it from time to time. 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 4: Every yes, one hundred percent. I do like to make 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 4: beats in my spare time, and you also have been 34 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 4: known to drop some firebars in your spare time time 35 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 4: to Oh my gosh, thank you, I'm twitter painted. 36 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: This is also this is also the time for us 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: to say that we might be working on a little 38 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: music off the books together. True, but we are doing 39 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: something song related today, an exploration that we are so 40 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: excited about. We are this is a true story. We 41 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: are hanging out with the creator, the host, I dare say, 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: the musician behind the fantastic podcast Historical Records. 43 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: Noel. 44 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: Can you help me with the introduction here? 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: Boy? Can I? 46 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 4: Ever? We love to welcome to Ridiculous History, the wonderful 47 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 4: and nemone ware of Historical Records Fame. Yeah, we're really 48 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 4: good at intros, aren't we, Neminy. It's like sort of 49 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 4: our thing. We don't even need to. We don't even 50 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 4: need to go on from here. We'll just like let 51 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 4: it lie with the introne. I'm kidding, Nemini, Welcome to 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 4: whatever this show is called. This is called ridiculous History 53 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 4: is what this is called. 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 5: Thank you having me, very exciting me here. 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: Of course, So you know, Ben kind of set it up. 56 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 4: You know, Historical Records is a I guess it's been 57 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 4: described to me often as history with a beat. It's 58 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 4: a podcast kind of created in conjunction with the Wonderful 59 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 4: Story Pirates kind of children's podcast network company production House 60 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 4: and also Questloves production company and yourself. And I've described 61 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 4: it to many folks. It's sort of like a almost 62 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 4: like an audio hip hop themed Yo Gabba Gabba that 63 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 4: very much leans on history. And I hope you take 64 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 4: that as a compliment, and I think Yo Gabba Gabba rules. 65 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 5: It does. 66 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 3: I definitely that was definitely my show back in the day. 67 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 3: I've never heard it described like that. I hope you 68 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 3: don't mind. 69 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 5: I think I'm gonna steal it. 70 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: Oh steal away, an explosive fusion of hip hop and history, 71 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: described as Taylor made for music loving kids and families, 72 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: and to be honest, a. When I was hearing some 73 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: of these episodes earlier, I started sending them to my 74 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: nieces just to just. 75 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 4: To let kids know that I'm sure, take you important. 76 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 4: It's important to let to remind them occasionally. But you know, 77 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 4: it's neat because it really is something that is, you know, 78 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 4: certainly appealing to kids, but it has such a broad 79 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 4: appeal to adults as well, because there's so much stuff 80 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 4: kind of little Easter eggs hidden that might fly over kids' heads, 81 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 4: but it's just really multi layered and just an absolute 82 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 4: joy to listen to. Can you tell us a little 83 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 4: bit about kind of how this came together and and 84 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 4: sort of how your role is sort of solidified in 85 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 4: this in this world of historical records. 86 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, so historical records, as you mentioned, it came it's 87 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: from the beautiful mind of the people at Story Priors, 88 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 3: Lee Overtree, myself, questlove Jonathan Glickman, and so it was 89 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: maybe it was like, I feel like during the pandemic, 90 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: maybe right after the pandemic. So a few years ago 91 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: we came to me with this idea of this new 92 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: project that he had coming together and wanted me to 93 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 3: audition to be the host and I think at the time, 94 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: I had been doing story parts and voiceover for a while, 95 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 3: which was never a lane I thought I would go into. 96 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 3: And I wanted to be like an actress, like I 97 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 3: wanted to do theater. 98 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 5: I wanted to do TV. 99 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay, I need to like take 100 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 3: a break from the voice over and focus more on 101 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 3: this other stuff. 102 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 5: So at first I was like, no, I don't want 103 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 5: to audition. 104 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 3: And so then he comes back a few months later 105 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: and it's just like, Niminie, can you just please just 106 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 3: send me to anything, just send me whatever, and like 107 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 3: send me something. And then just because I lovely, he 108 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 3: such just media, I was like fine or whatever. So 109 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 3: then I just recorded some stuff I was having fun, 110 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 3: sent it in and he's like, great, Jonathan. 111 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,559 Speaker 5: Glickman wants to meet you. And I was like, oh, okay, great. 112 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 3: So I was actually I was babies. I was a 113 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: nanny at the time, and I was at work and 114 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 3: the mom she was she worked from home. So I 115 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 3: was like, hey, like, is it okay? I have this interview? 116 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 3: Can you like take the baby for like ten minutes? 117 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: So I kept like have this interview and she was 118 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: so amazed. She was like oh my god, of course, 119 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 3: So she took the baby and they went in the 120 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: living room, and then I just like had an interview 121 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 3: with Jonathan Gickman and with Lee and with Jamie Sokka, 122 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 3: who's also like the creator of story parts with Lee, 123 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: and then I mean it just went really well. And 124 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 3: then from there I kind of just I got the job. 125 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 3: And then we started brainstorming on what did we want 126 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: it to look like, what is the format, what are 127 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 3: our themes, like, how who are the people we want 128 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 3: to talk about, and what is the message we want 129 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: to you know, all the background stuff. And then do 130 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: I want to also be a writer, and like what 131 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 3: does my role look like as the producer creat a producer? 132 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:34,799 Speaker 5: And so then we talked. 133 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 3: About all of that, and then I mean then we 134 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 3: just like started Roland and I wrote I think I 135 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 3: wrote the first. 136 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 5: Song of my calaued it coman song. I wrote that 137 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 5: like two three years ago. 138 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 3: It's been a second and so yeah, and so that's 139 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 3: that's how it came about and how I became a 140 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 3: part of it. 141 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 4: Pandemic kind of created a time warp for all of us. 142 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 4: It's a little hard to even envision a boy. 143 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh. I would also love to share a 144 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: couple of fun facts. Not to put you too much 145 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: in the spotlight here, but uh, nimini, so we could 146 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: get to know you. I am incredibly curious in your 147 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: background as a polyglot. Is it true that you speak 148 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: for languages? 149 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 5: It is true. 150 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: I guess I can say that I'm proficient in three 151 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 3: and the fourth is like a beginner intermediate. 152 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: Oh that's great. 153 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: I'm total at three and the first one i'm proficient 154 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: and mildly is Irish, so I'm not that great at 155 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: the one I mean. 156 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 4: And I alsoy you know, I was once a small 157 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 4: German boy, as I said on the show, and I 158 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 4: was born in Germany and went to proper German kindergarten. 159 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 4: But I think I probably still barely speak German at 160 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 4: a kindergarten level. 161 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: So what are the ones you're proficient in? 162 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 5: So I'm proficient? I mean obviously I always say English 163 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 5: because you know that a number. 164 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: Counts, it counts. 165 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: Every win's a win. 166 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then French. French is when I started learning. Second, 167 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 5: I love French, oh my god. 168 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: And in Spanish, you know the basics, because also my 169 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 3: brother's like girl, well, fiance longtime part or as Mexican, 170 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 3: and she always spoke Spanish to be growing up, so 171 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 3: I just like learned. 172 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 5: From her and then I started living Korean during the pandemic. 173 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: Oh no, pandemic handle I love it. Yeah, hand goal 174 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: the alphabet. 175 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 3: Oh yes, I'm not that proficient. 176 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: Well we're all doing but that's incredible. 177 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 4: So, you know, the creative side of it super interests 178 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 4: me because I mean it is like any kind of 179 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 4: show like this is going to have a lot of 180 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 4: folks involved. 181 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: But what did that. 182 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 4: Kind of creative participation sort of end up becoming, you. 183 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 5: Know, for you with the with historical records. 184 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 4: With the show, Yeah, I was like, you know how 185 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 4: like like how much were you involved in the songwriting, 186 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: the day to day creation and also we're picking the 187 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 4: picking the historical figures that you guys wanted to cover. 188 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, oh yeah, definitely I think I was. 189 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: I was very involved in the process, especially with like 190 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 3: at the way beginning a figure, as I saying before, 191 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: like the themes and what we wanted to do and 192 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: like how we wanted to format it and like how 193 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 3: we wanted my character to be because I also have 194 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 3: a character Niminy on story prior its who is different 195 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: from this character Niminy on Historical Records. 196 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 5: So then we were talking about like. 197 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 3: Bouncing around ideas of do we want her to have 198 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 3: a sidekit, and what do we want the sidekick to 199 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 3: look like and such, and just doing research on people that. 200 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 5: We wanted to talk about in the podcast. 201 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 3: Doing going through the scripts, working at making edits, making comments, 202 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: listening to the drafts. 203 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 5: I'm a part of like every part of. 204 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 3: It, but I'm especially part of the songwriting portion the 205 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 3: music because music is a first love of mine and 206 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 3: i love writing music, and so I've written a few songs, 207 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 3: a few choruses and a few full songs for the 208 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 3: podcast that I'm very excited about. 209 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,119 Speaker 5: And yeah, I mean I'm just really involved, like everywhere. 210 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: And one thing that really stands out and differentiates Historical 211 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: Records is that there's this narrative spine of music. It 212 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: is a character in the story right each episode, it 213 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: moves us through. We were talking a bit off air, 214 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: we'd love to give people just a sample taste maybe 215 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: by nol What do you think playing the theme song? 216 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Historical Records. 217 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 6: You are now listening to Historical. 218 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 7: To make history, you got to have struggles to make history, you. 219 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 6: Got to show poised. 220 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: Cannot be quiet. 221 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 7: Loud as a riot to make history, you gotta make 222 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 7: some noise. 223 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 4: But man, I mean just the first from the first 224 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 4: moment that I heard that theme song, I fully understood 225 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 4: what this show was about. The idea of you have 226 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 4: to have poise, you know, all of these notions of 227 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 4: the types of historical figures that you're discussing, which for 228 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 4: some people you might consider them kind of if we're 229 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 4: using like hip hop terms, kind of deep cuts. Like 230 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 4: a lot of these folks I was not personally super 231 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 4: super aware of. There were a few that I was, 232 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 4: and then more than that, ones that I that I 233 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 4: wasn't familiar with, people like Ida tar Bell, who is 234 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 4: like a very important investigative journalist who was, you know, 235 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 4: the subject of the very first episode. Each episode also 236 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 4: features interviews with kind of subject matter experts, and that 237 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 4: one included a fabulous interview with Susan Orlean, who I'm 238 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 4: a big fan of from her work on The Orcive Thief, 239 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 4: which is a film that was adapted into one of 240 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 4: my favorite films of all time. Adaptation and just you know, 241 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 4: the idea of exploring some of these figures and giving 242 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 4: a little bit more kind of meat on the bones 243 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 4: for some of these folks that maybe folks have heard 244 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 4: of just kind of like in whispers or in little 245 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 4: snips and snaps here and there. But can you kind 246 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 4: of talk about how that aspect was so important And 247 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 4: it's a little hard to even choose which ones of 248 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 4: these figures that maybe folks aren't fully aware of to pick. 249 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, and what we really wanted, I mean, 250 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 3: which is exactly everything that you guys have been expressing 251 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 3: about how they're like to use your words, like deep 252 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 3: cuts and things and people that are just so prominent 253 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 3: in our everyday lives who have done things to really 254 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 3: change how things work these days and we just don't 255 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 3: know anything about. And so it is really tough to 256 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: choose because there are so many that we don't know about, 257 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 3: which is why we're you know, hoping to continue this 258 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: and continue highlighting people in history. 259 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 5: But I think just. 260 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 3: It's really about kind of what we wanted this first season, 261 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: because you know, we're still figuring it out. So what 262 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 3: we wanted the first season to be and what it 263 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: was that we wanted to express, So we wanted to 264 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 3: start with some who with people who were maybe like 265 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 3: people knew about them, but they didn't really know, so 266 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 3: it didn't seem too like, too far removed from what 267 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: people understand. And then you know, as we go on, 268 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 3: we would be more maybe a little bit more obscure. 269 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: I love that, like I've heard like someone says, oh, 270 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: I've heard the name, but I don't know the story, right, 271 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: And that's that. I think that also speaks to the 272 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: approachability here, you know, because I'm immediately sucked in right 273 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: with the with the pace and the exploration of this. 274 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: Choosing one historic figure has to be you know, an 275 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: embarrassment of riches, as they say, right, And one thing 276 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: that we are extremely excited to learn with you about 277 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: today is the true story from the civil rights that 278 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people simply aren't aware of. 279 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: Right. 280 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: They may have heard the name Claudette col they've definitely 281 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: heard the name Rosa Parks, but they may not understand 282 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: the full detail behind these two historical figures. As you 283 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: said earlier, you have incredibly interested in Colvin well before 284 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: Historical Records becomes a show. 285 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 2: So we'd love to we'd. 286 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: Love to learn maybe, uh, we'd love to learn the 287 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: full story. Maybe we can start with what people know 288 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: about Rosa Parks. 289 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so what people know about Rosa Parks is that 290 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 3: she sat during the Montgomery bus boycott. She sat on 291 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: the bus in the section that was marked off for whites, 292 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 3: and then she refused to give up her seat for 293 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 3: a white woman and then she ended up being dragged 294 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 3: off the bus going to jail, and it started this 295 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 3: whole movement. What people don't know is that Claudette Colvin, 296 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 3: who was younger than Rosa Parks, was actually she did 297 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: it before Rosa did. So Claudette was very young, and 298 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 3: you know, she goes, you would go to school on 299 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 3: the on the bus, and so essentially essentially she just 300 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: did the same thing. She didn't get off the bus 301 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: when they asked her to, so then they dragged off 302 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 3: the bus and then they took her to jail and 303 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 3: they put her in an adult jail sale instead of 304 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 3: with when she's fifteen, Yes, when she's fifteen, they put 305 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 3: her in with the adults when she was supposed to 306 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 3: be with you know, the juveniles. 307 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 5: And so then her friends went ran and told her family. 308 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: Like what was going on, and then it became this 309 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: whole thing and they got her out and then as 310 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: she grew up, she had to like move. She ended 311 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 3: up having to move because of all the harassment that 312 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: was coming from the white people in the area, Like 313 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 3: her family and her neighborhood and her community would stay 314 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: up on her block all night and like keep watch 315 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 3: to make sure nobody was coming for her. 316 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 5: And she ended up having a leave and she moved 317 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 5: to New York. 318 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 3: But was what was also really interesting about her for 319 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: me is that she she had been learning she was 320 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 3: a part of like the in in DOUAACP. She was 321 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: part of the NAACP and she was and she was 322 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: a part of the group that Rosa Parks was a 323 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 3: part of the organized group that essentially like created or 324 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 3: or got the Montgomery bus Boy got started. 325 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 5: And so Rosa Parks was one of her mentors. And 326 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 5: so the story. 327 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 3: Well as I learned, what I've learned is that she 328 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 3: she wasn't able to be the one that was that 329 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 3: became well known for it, or to be the face 330 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 3: of the movement, essentially because she was younger, and because 331 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 3: she was darker skinned, and because they just they just 332 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 3: felt like Rosa Parks was more palatable for people that. 333 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: You know, I've been Yeah. 334 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 4: I mean, I've been listening to some interviews with Colvin, 335 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 4: who is still alive with us thankfully and as an 336 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 4: absolutely delightful human being. And there was a piece on 337 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 4: I think it was CBS News. It was like one 338 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 4: of the morning show segments where you know, when she 339 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 4: was arrested, they basically threw the book at her and 340 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 4: accused her of all kinds of, you know, felonies, including 341 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 4: like attacking police officers. She was accused of swearing at 342 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 4: them and clawing them and all of these horrible things 343 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 4: that she of course did not do. And then ultimately 344 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 4: a lot of those you know, more heinous kind of 345 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 4: charges were stripped due to you know, the NAACP's actions 346 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 4: and lawyers and things like that that were later, but 347 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 4: that charge that remained of her getting arrested, it did 348 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 4: remain on her record up until about three years ago 349 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 4: a she petitioned. That was during the Floyd the George 350 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 4: Floyd riots and protests. She decided she wanted to get 351 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 4: that stricken from her record, and she petitioned to do that, 352 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 4: and the judge who had that stricken from her record expunged. 353 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 4: They meet for the very first time on this CBS 354 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 4: Morning segment, and it was just the sweetest thing. She's 355 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 4: just so grateful and she barely knows what to say, 356 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 4: and it is an African American man, and I think 357 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 4: that was just a moment that was really powerful for 358 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 4: both of them to have that meeting. So that was 359 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 4: just again seeing her personality and how she kind of 360 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 4: explained the situation. But one thing I thought was really interesting. 361 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 4: We've talked in the past about women's suffrage movements, and 362 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 4: there was a whole period where women would wear these 363 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 4: sharp hat pins or hair pins in their hair, and 364 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 4: so if they were attacked by men, they would have 365 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 4: way of defending themselves. And Colvin talks about when she 366 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 4: was incarcerated, how she wished she had one of these 367 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 4: because she didn't know, you know, what was going to 368 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 4: happen to her in this adult jail when she was 369 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 4: locked up, and how she was scared to fall asleep, 370 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 4: you know, less she be assaulted. 371 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: So I mean, this is all these. 372 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 4: Stakes are very very high for this young woman who 373 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 4: is obviously very brave and put herself in this situation. 374 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 4: I'm just wondering, you know how you see that kind 375 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 4: of legacy. As she's talking about this stuff, you know, 376 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 4: thinking about this so many years back, she said, she 377 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 4: remembers the click of the key in the. 378 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 2: Jail cell and all of that. I don't know. 379 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 4: It's just the legacy of it is so fascinating to me, 380 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 4: and it's so neat that we can still hear this 381 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 4: directly from her. I was wondering if you'd seen any 382 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 4: of those interviews or kind of explore more of how 383 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 4: she looks back on it today. 384 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 3: I haven't done much since since writing the song about 385 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 3: more research on cloud it, so I haven't actually seen 386 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 3: the interview, but I will definitely look it up after. 387 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I highly recommend it's a great watch. 388 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: And let's go to another thing, because I know a 389 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: lot of our fellow listeners are going to be curious 390 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: on this one. Nimini, there's something you said which is 391 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: I think a very troubling aspect of the story. How 392 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: Colvin ended up getting for lack of a better word, 393 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: sidelined right, how she became a deep cut despite doing 394 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: something so heroic. From what I understand, it's very important 395 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: that we make this clear for the audience. Colvin was 396 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: Colvin became a victim of attempts at PR or branding campaigns, because, 397 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: as you said, there was the skin color issue as 398 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: the movement leader saw it, and perhaps even more importantly, 399 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: the fact that she was unmarried and pregnant at the time. 400 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: When we talk about this internal decision for folks to 401 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: sort of orchestrate Rosa Park in place of this earlier 402 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: person who did the same thing, what can we learn 403 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: about I mean, it seems like very morally gray kind 404 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: of decision. What do you think was going on? And 405 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: perhaps do we do we agree or disagree with the 406 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: reasoning of the movement leaders? 407 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 5: Oh? 408 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 3: Man, that is the question that's I want to say. 409 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 5: I don't know. 410 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 3: I hope this doesn't sound bad, but I feel like 411 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 3: I would say I like, morally obviously I would disagree, 412 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: but I think just realistically, with how the world, how 413 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 3: America works, and the time in which everything was happened, 414 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 3: I would say I agree. I think you know, as 415 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 3: a dark skinned black woman in America, colorism is very 416 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 3: real and I experienced different treatment, and I have experienced blatant, 417 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: just like microaggressions and racism compared to the lighter, my 418 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 3: light of skin black women. And so I recognize that 419 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 3: if in a way, especially during that time. You know, 420 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 3: if you want a certain thing to move forward, you 421 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 3: have to think about what's best for the mission and 422 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 3: what's best like what's going to get people, what people 423 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 3: are going to pay attention to. And I think because 424 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 3: they already don't pay attention to darker skinned people and 425 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: didn't see them for us as humans at the time, 426 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: that it might have been more difficult to push a 427 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 3: message across. 428 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 5: So yeah, that's what I would say. I think that's 429 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 5: a tough one. 430 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 4: I know, No, I'm totally with you, and the way 431 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 4: you guys handle it on historical records, I think is 432 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 4: really admirable because you do address that question, you do 433 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 4: address that kind of moral gray area. But at the 434 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 4: end of the day, it is sort of about you know, 435 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 4: it's and I say, Claudette knew that this decision was 436 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 4: important and understood that, you know, that she needed to 437 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 4: take that back seats and that it was important for 438 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,719 Speaker 4: someone maybe that was had that prominence, was a little older, 439 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 4: was part of the NAACP, be that kind of face 440 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 4: of the movement. So I don't know, I just think 441 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 4: that calculation, while maybe question easy to question or easy 442 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 4: to kind of look sideways at, made perfect sense at 443 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 4: the time and maybe maximize the. 444 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 2: Impact of the movement. 445 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 4: And then of course Claudette did ultimately get her due 446 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 4: and was very well respected within the movement, even though 447 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 4: she may be overshadowed big picture historically speaking, you know by. 448 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: Rosa Parks, and Rosa Parks being the mentor to Claudette 449 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: is also or a mentor is also another part of 450 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: the story. There's a there's that famous quote that Rosa 451 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,239 Speaker 1: Parks made after the fact, and she said, if the 452 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: White press got a hold of that information, meaning the 453 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: personal details about Claudette's life, they would have had a 454 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: field date. They call her a bad kid, her case 455 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: wouldn't have a chance. So there's also I think this 456 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 1: argument that they they may have said they were in 457 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: some way protecting this kid. You know, this is a child. 458 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: We have to remember that. It's it's a fascinating story, 459 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: and I know we got to as you said, Noel 460 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: the the judge who expunged that that conviction, way after 461 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: the fact. But could you tell us then how you 462 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: personally first began learning about Colvin's story. 463 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I actually learned a little bit about it before, 464 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: like years before the podcast. So my mom my mom 465 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 3: was in prison for a while, and so she was 466 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 3: a part of this writing group and she was assigned 467 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 3: a project to write about a historical figure, and lo 468 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: and behold, she chose Claude Covid. And so, you know, 469 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 3: when we would have our phone calls, like she would 470 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 3: she would tell me about like what she had been 471 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 3: learning about Claude, and I was like, oh my god, 472 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 3: like wait, wait a minute, I thought it was Rosa Park. 473 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 3: So then so I started to learn about from my 474 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 3: mom through her writing projects, and so and then after that, 475 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 3: when and and then I just learned more about her 476 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 3: as I was recording the episode and looking at all 477 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 3: the research and to write the song about her. 478 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: And with this too, this is something that I think 479 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: is brilliant about historical records. It is all too easy 480 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: when we're learning about history to feel that we're forced 481 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: to interrogate dusty tones. You know, there's someone lecturing time 482 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: and date to you names of people that we might 483 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: not ever meet. But historical records brings history alive by 484 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: doing a psychological thing that I'm quite a fan of, 485 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: which is encoding information through music. Could you tell us 486 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: a little bit about your songwriting process on historical records 487 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: and how how you guys encapsulate uh these these deep 488 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: cuts of history in a way that's approachable again to 489 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: even like my six year old niece thinks I'm cool 490 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: to get that. 491 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 3: So my songwriting processes it like differs, but specifically for 492 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: this song. So I get I get a research packet, 493 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 3: like someone does a lot of research. And then I 494 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 3: get that packet and then I go through. Well, first, 495 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 3: you know, they were like, hey, do. 496 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 5: You want to write this song about Claudic Cole? 497 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 3: And I was like, one second, let me see about 498 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 3: google is and yeah. 499 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 5: So then then I'm like, yeah, oh, I got you, 500 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 5: so cool. 501 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 3: And so I look through the research packet that they 502 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 3: give me and then I create my own own I 503 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 3: create my own document and then I'll put like the 504 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 3: information that I feel like I would want to include. 505 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 5: In a song, I'll put that on my document. And 506 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 5: then I go and I do my own. 507 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 3: Research, listen to her interviews and do everything I need 508 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 3: to do, and also get my my own research and 509 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 3: put it in the document as well. And then I 510 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 3: go through and I'm like, okay, well, what's a theme? 511 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 3: What were the things that stuck out to me in 512 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 3: this research and in her story and then what like 513 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 3: what can I create from that? 514 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 5: And so I actually wrote two songs for Claudette. 515 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 3: The first one I wrote was it was it was slower, 516 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 3: It was more like jazzy, like bluesy at a James style, 517 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 3: and it was about and it was more about like 518 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 3: the particular moment of her being pulled, dragged off of 519 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: the bus and taken to jail. So it was about 520 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 3: that specific that day. And so then I like sent 521 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 3: it over and they're like, oh, this is great. And 522 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 3: then I got really sick. I was really sick, and 523 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 3: I was in bed for like a day and I 524 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 3: was listening to the song and I was like. 525 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 5: I was like, I think this needs to be like 526 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 5: more upbeat, like this is for kids. 527 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: I like this song and for me that lay down 528 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 3: the list do but this is I needed like keep 529 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 3: in mind my audiences. And so I was like, you 530 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 3: know what, let me like bake something more a beat. 531 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 3: And also like, let me just wrap this is a 532 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 3: hip podcast. Why am I trying to do. 533 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 5: Blues right now? 534 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 3: I could do that another time, like, so I was like, 535 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 3: let me just do some rapping. So then I went 536 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 3: back into my document got more research, and I was like, okay, 537 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 3: so there's not like enough essentially here. I mean, I 538 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 3: could have stretched it, but I don't like to like 539 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 3: make things like I don't like fluff. So I was like, 540 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 3: there's not too too much. There's a lot there, but 541 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 3: too much for like a full like three and a 542 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 3: half four minute song with me talking really fast. So 543 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, then what else can I talk about? 544 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 3: Let me just talk about her entire life. Great, because 545 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 3: I think her life is so interesting. So I was like, great, 546 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 3: she got the sister, she was adopted. Like I was like, oh, 547 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 3: there's all these things that like I think are cool 548 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 3: to also humanize her, and it's like she's not just 549 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 3: the being dragged off the bus and being and not 550 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 3: being a part of the movement, and she's also like 551 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 3: a whole entire human being who had a life before 552 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 3: this and who had a life after this. 553 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 5: So I was like, let's just humanize her and let's 554 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 5: do that. So then I just like wrote it. 555 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 3: I wrote it in a few hours, and then I 556 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 3: recorded it in my closet and then I just sent it. 557 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 5: Over and then they were like. 558 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: Meminy, this is amazing. 559 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 5: Okay, the other side. I spent like weeks on it, and. 560 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 2: That's how the inspiration goes, you know. 561 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 4: I mean like you just in like a moment where 562 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 4: something hits you and you just kind of churn it 563 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 4: out like in a heartbeat. And I think it really 564 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 4: shows because this song that we're going to hear in 565 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 4: a bit is just kind of, you know, full of inspiration, 566 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 4: and you know, it does make me kind of look 567 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 4: back to at some of Colvin's kind of quotable quotes, 568 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 4: and there's one in particular that she says a lot 569 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 4: in interviews and then I really love and that has 570 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 4: a poetry to it as well, she says when asked, 571 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 4: like why she didn't get up from that seat, because 572 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 4: it's crazy too. 573 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: They apparently it was not only it wasn't. 574 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 4: Just one seat, it was four seats because like whites 575 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 4: and our blacks were black people were not allowed to 576 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 4: sit next to or adjacent to white people, so she 577 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 4: had to give up four. 578 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: Seats, which is just bonkers. 579 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 4: And when asked why she didn't want to get up, 580 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 4: she said, history glued me to the seat. I felt 581 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 4: like sojourner Truth was pushing down on one shoulder and 582 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 4: Harriet Tubman was pushed down on the other saying sit 583 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 4: down girl, and I was glued to my seat. I 584 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 4: don't know, there's just something powerful and really expressive about that. 585 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,719 Speaker 4: That kind of I think sums the whole thing up. 586 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 4: And I think you achieved that same kind of poetry 587 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 4: in your. 588 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 5: Song Oh thank You. Yeah. 589 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 3: I was very inspired by that because in the like 590 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: in the first song, I did use a lot of 591 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 3: her quotes from interviews and I put them in there, 592 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 3: and that was a big one where I was like, 593 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 3: I also wrote a line on that as well, because 594 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 3: I just thought I. 595 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 5: Was very inspired by that, because I don't know, just. 596 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 3: To be so young and to be so confident, so 597 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 3: headstrong and just like know what you want and know 598 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 3: that you're not being treated right, and to be able 599 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 3: to stand up for that. 600 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 5: That's just like that. I feel like you don't come 601 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 5: across that. 602 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 603 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that people with a benefit 604 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: of retrospect will imagine themselves doing, you know, to look 605 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: back and say, oh, I could have I would have 606 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: done that. But all too often in the moment, we 607 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: we see that what people like to think of themselves 608 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: doing versus what they will do can be to very 609 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: different things. One other part of Colvin's statements that really 610 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 1: stood out in a heartbreaking way in several interviews is 611 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: the context that she gives, not just the more poetic 612 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: historical line of feeling glued to the seat, but she 613 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: often says, look, if the lady was elderly, I might 614 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: have moved, And that to me was a sort of damning, 615 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: heartbreaking look at the context of the time, you know 616 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: what I mean, because we get the feeling that Claudette 617 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: was clearly able to discern that. You know, it's not 618 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: like you're giving up your seat for someone with mobility 619 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: issues or an elderly person. 620 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 4: The very definition of the idea of privilege. I mean, 621 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 4: that's sort of work invented. Yeah, I know, you're one 622 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 4: hundred percent on the money there ben One thing I 623 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 4: love too about the format of historical records is how 624 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 4: in your segments where you have interviews with kind of 625 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 4: subject matter experts, you have a actual facts to quote 626 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 4: our friend Lauren vogelbab small child doing the interviewing, and 627 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 4: you kind of moderate it really And there's a wonderful 628 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 4: segment on the claud Ut Coleman episode where I'm sorry 629 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 4: the young young girl's name is Escaping Me. But interviews 630 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 4: Rock Sane Gay about kind of the civil rights movement 631 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 4: and about being an activist. And one thing that the 632 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 4: segment kind of leaves you with is this idea that 633 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 4: anyone could be an activist and that you know, there's 634 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 4: always you know, while we sometimes look at like the 635 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 4: civil rights movement is something from the past, very much 636 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 4: still the movement needs to persist and needs to continue, 637 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 4: and that there is, to quote Rok Sane, you know, 638 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 4: still a lot of work to be done. I just 639 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 4: wonder if you see, you know, how you see that 640 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 4: idea of anyone can be an activist, and you know 641 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 4: you by doing this podcast, you are being an activist, 642 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 4: and don't anything you might say to young people about 643 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 4: how to you know, continue telling these kinds of stories 644 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 4: and to continue standing up for what's right. 645 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, parting words of wisdom or anything like. 646 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what they take away from historical records. 647 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, okay. I never even considered myself an activist by 648 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 5: doing this podcast. So I guess that just goes to 649 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 5: show that I mean, if you like. 650 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 3: Have some information, if you know, if you have some 651 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 3: information on something and you share it in whatever capacity, 652 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 3: whether that's creatively making your own work, writing a story, 653 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 3: writing a song, creating a podcast, or even just like 654 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 3: talking to your friends about about something that you're passionate 655 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 3: about that you feel like. And activism doesn't have to 656 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 3: be It doesn't have to be I feel like for me, 657 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 3: I always thought activism was like I have to be 658 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 3: in the streets, I have to be like getting shot 659 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 3: by rubber bullets. 660 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 5: And but I. 661 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 3: Think it could be as simple as literally writing a letter, 662 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: literally writing a letter. 663 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 5: I feel like it could be anything simple. 664 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 4: That's why I thought the quote was so powerful or that, 665 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 4: you know, the piece, because it just shows how anyone 666 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 4: can do this. It doesn't have to be this grand, 667 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 4: you know, high minded idea of what you're talking about, 668 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 4: like being out in the streets, you know, being directly 669 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 4: at harm's way. It starts with just talking to people 670 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 4: and sharing and also just in our own way not 671 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 4: standing you know, not standing for injustice right. 672 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 5: And I think I think also it's so cute. 673 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 3: There's a little a quote what she said her name 674 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 3: is escaping me as well, but with Roxane Gay when 675 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 3: she's interviewing her and the young the little child or 676 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 3: what you said, and Roxanne was like yeah, and she's like, 677 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 3: there's we have a lot of work to do. But 678 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 3: as you said, and then the little girl was like, well, 679 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 3: how much work do we have to do? 680 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 5: I thought it was so sweet. 681 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 3: And then I'm like, well, now she's going to go 682 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 3: to her friends and be like, well, you we had 683 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 3: a lot of work to do, so let's get started. 684 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 5: Yeah. 685 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, and Roxanne almost doesn't know how to answer 686 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 4: that because she is flummexed by that, where she's like, 687 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 4: I asked myself this every single day, and it's like, 688 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 4: you know, while you don't want to let the weight 689 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 4: of the negative things in the world kind of crush you, 690 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 4: you know you do need to kind of always be 691 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 4: moving forward, always be asking questions and never standing for injustice, 692 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 4: you know, and in our own way. I think we 693 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 4: can all do that in some small way, even if 694 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 4: we're not necessarily, you know, out there in the streets 695 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 4: being shot at by rubber books. 696 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: The way, the way I like to put it, Limity, 697 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: is that the human race is a team sport. The 698 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: human race is the ultimate group project, right, just like 699 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: in school, and there are lessons that surround us. History 700 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: is a continuing conversation. It's not really a past tense thing, 701 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: and as we often say here on the show, history 702 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: is way closer than it looks in the rearview mirror. 703 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: We want to thank you again so much for spending 704 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: time with us. We have a special treat for our 705 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians at the very end of this episode. But 706 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: before we go off to various adventures, we have to 707 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: ask where can people learn more about your work, not 708 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: just with historical records, both story Pirates, your background at 709 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: sketch comedy and if I'm not telling tales out of 710 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: school a little bit of theater. 711 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, you can learn more about me on 712 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 3: my website www dot Nimini dot com. And that's Nimini 713 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 3: n as in November, I am as in March E 714 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 3: and as in November e dot com. 715 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: And folks, that is our show. We are not as 716 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: they say, blowing smoke. Historical records is awesome. In full disclosure, Noel, 717 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: you're affiliated with this project as well? 718 00:35:59,320 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 2: Correct? 719 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I've had the absolute pleasure to work with 720 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 4: Lee and the story Pirates, folks, and you know the 721 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 4: Quest Love team. 722 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 2: I didn't do anything creatively. 723 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 4: I just helped kind of be the liaison between the 724 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 4: outside production companies and iHeart and they've just been incredible. 725 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 4: Lee Overstreet as a wonderful person and an absolute creative 726 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 4: genius and such an incredible voice when it comes to 727 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 4: telling these stories that are of course geared towards kids, 728 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 4: but like we said earlier, absolutely applicable to so many 729 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 4: other types of folks and walks of life. And you know, 730 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 4: I just think it's a fabulous show and I'm really 731 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 4: proud of what they've made. 732 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: Agreed, big, big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams, 733 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: Big thanks to Alex Williams. Spoilers, folks, listen through our 734 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: thank yous, because we do have a treat at the end. 735 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 4: Yes, Ben, it's true you had the brilliant idea of 736 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 4: saving the best for last. This is the song that 737 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 4: we were discussing the whole time, that Nimini wrote herself 738 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 4: lyrically and was produced in conjunction with the team at 739 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 4: Story Pirates and Questloves Crew. 740 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 2: And we just are so stoked about it. 741 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 4: Then you absolutely texted the group the moment you heard 742 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 4: it about how. 743 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 2: Excited you were about it. 744 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 4: It really does have a bit of an earwormy hook, 745 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 4: and it tells the story brilliantly. 746 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: Stem to Stern some big, big thanks to the good 747 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: folks at Historical Records, of course, huge thanks to Neminy. 748 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: This is what we're talking about when we say education through. 749 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 4: Music, indeed and advance less you know the usual thanks 750 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 4: of course to our guests them anywhere, the folks over 751 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 4: at Historical Records, Jonathan Strickland, the quister, A J. 752 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 2: Bahamas, Jacob's the Puzzler. 753 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: And so without further ado, we cannot wait to share 754 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: with you Nemini's song about Claudette Colvin. 755 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 2: We don't have to wait here. It is right now. 756 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 2: See you next time, folks. 757 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 7: Claude Debt that's my name, Miss Alabama. Born and raised 758 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 7: this Montgomery to be spacistic. 759 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 2: Hope you don't. 760 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 7: Mind these on the ristic see your nine zero five 761 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 7: thirty nine, the birth date of a future leaders civil 762 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 7: rights activist, The catalyst to be Montgomery Bus Boycott again 763 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 7: with me, Montgomery Bus Boycott, that is correct. 764 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 6: A lot of people. 765 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 7: Don't know about the juicy tidbit. Couldn't be the face 766 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 7: of the movement because I wasn't ridging because of my 767 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 7: complexion I'm never in the press, just thinking I was 768 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 7: only fifteen, fellow with my routine. 769 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,879 Speaker 5: And the segregat of see. 770 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 3: Years after that, I curve and I couldn't find work, 771 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 3: and I. 772 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 7: Moved to New York and nurse. 773 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 6: It began woman. Nine before there was Claudet Gorman, and 774 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 6: it began woman. 775 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: Did you know? 776 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 6: Did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine 777 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 6: months before Rother he was Claude Gorman. 778 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 7: Let me start from the beginning. My dad left, Mama's 779 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 7: wallet was sin me see. I was born Claude that Austin. 780 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 7: Then I went to live with my uncle and my aunt, 781 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 7: and that's how I got the name. 782 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 5: Calvin. 783 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 7: Had a little sister e I was a oh that 784 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 7: lost her to poly yoga. 785 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:55,959 Speaker 5: Only knows my pain. 786 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 7: I was so fi yo logically strange, looking to you. 787 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 5: Washington High School. 788 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 7: I started going there in nineteen fifty two. I was 789 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 7: in the city, a place I couldn't walk to, so 790 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 7: right in the bus is what I had to do. 791 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,479 Speaker 7: It was nineteen fifty five. I didn't give up my seat. 792 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 7: They called the police and they arrested in me. But 793 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 7: I had been learning that by my ancestry. And then 794 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,439 Speaker 7: the youth come. 795 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 6: Up with AAA se pain, So what said, I. 796 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: Know my constradutional rights. 797 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 7: There was an empty rubberside and he said, this isn't right, 798 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,879 Speaker 7: Jim cross. There's black kids to the crossing the white. 799 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 6: We always got to be behind them. 800 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,959 Speaker 3: And this said, I'm like, put me off the bus. 801 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 6: I didn't fight work fuss. 802 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 7: I didn't feel fair because I was young, and tempt 803 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 7: to put me in. 804 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 3: An adult fell with no phone call. 805 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 5: But my friends went to find my mom. 806 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 6: And it began with me nine before they was corn 807 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 6: And if begal with me? 808 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 2: Did you know? 809 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: Did you know? 810 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 6: I wouldn't give up my seats? 811 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 3: Nine? Before? 812 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 6: Brother? 813 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 7: One year later we had brought a versus Gail. I 814 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 7: was one of five plaint tests talking about how the 815 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 7: law had failed at the bust and we wasn't gonna 816 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 7: take in the federal court. They made the decision the 817 00:39:58,719 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 7: Supreme Court. 818 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 6: They made that decision in. 819 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 7: The bus segregation was against the competition. 820 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 5: And they ended it properently. And to begin with me. 821 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 6: Nine and the beginning with me, did you know didn't know? 822 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 6: I wouldn't give up nine? 823 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 7: That's my main Miss Alabama Born and. 824 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 5: Race episode. 825 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 6: Brithday you will nine pause again with me. 826 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 5: Oh, I almost forgot. 827 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 7: The city of Montgomery, Alabama, declared Mark second Claudette Colvin Day. 828 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 829 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.